Scribbled angelfish swollen stomach area, Hypo?    5/2/09 Hey there, Crew. I've recently purchased a scribbled angel, I've had it for almost two weeks now. <Ok> Initially, I placed it directly into my DT. Yes, I know that is frowned upon. I received it from a trusted source and I really hoped it was going to be disease free. I like to learn the hard way, apparently. I know I shouldn't have placed it right into the DT, my mistake, it wont be one I repeat. So it went into a 210g tank, 8.2 pH, salinity of 1.025, temperature rock solid at 77.5. It was supposedly collected over a month ago and feeding very well on small and large mysis, algae strips and Formula 1 pellets. It was shipped to me on April 20th and I received it April 21st. I went through my normal drip acclimation process. I also received a small achilles tang, which went right into the display as well. <Mmm, this species is much more problematical> The achilles had/has ich. I already wrote in about this in a previous question, I started treating the tank with hyposalinity. For what it's worth, the ich is gone now and hopefully when I raise the salinity in 8 weeks, it will stay gone. Time will tell. Also, when I lowered it I believe I had a slight bacterial bloom, <Not atypical> the water got a slightly cloudy white tint to it but that only lasted about 2 days and went away. I had a little bit of ammonia show up during that time and so I used an ammonia neutralizing product to temporarily calm that down. <Mmm, this is not really an efficacious manner...> The levels were low but I know even low levels are toxic. <Yes> I also have the scribbled separated off from the other fish in the tank through the use of eggcrate, which you can see in at least one of the pictures. I know it isn't getting harassed. Even just "harassed by sight" isn't happening, it goes up to the eggcrate and looks at the other fish and they come look at him, he doesn't look scared or shy. The achilles is on the other side, so it's just the scribbled on his own side. He has about 60-70 gallons to himself and some live rock to hide in and pick off if he wants to. <Good> You'll notice from the pictures that it has a really bulged out belly on the left side. Looking at the photograph, it's on the right, but it's the left side of the fish. The right side of the fish has a bump as well, but it looks a lot more normal and not near as protruding as the left side. I started noticing this pretty soon after I received it. It wont eat at all, so I thought it was weird that it's stomach is swelling. After about a week, it is bulging to the point you see in the pictures. Starting this Tuesday, the 28th, I pulled him from the main tank and placed him into a 29g QT. I started treating with Furan 2, hoping it was a bacterial infection. Well, it's been 3 days and the swelling is even worse. The bump is larger, not a LOT larger but noticeable. Tonight, I'm supposed to put in one more Furan 2 treatment and let it sit for 24 more hours, then do a water change and introduce activated carbon to remove the meds. I'm going to assume since he is getting worse, this one last day of treatment isn't going to solve the problem. What do you recommend I do? <Mmm, this, these treatments are all "exploratory"... sans knowing root cause...> I have Prazipro, which is an anti-parasitical formula as you probably know. My plan is to put in carbon tomorrow night (Saturday) and do a couple 25% water changes over the next 2 days, then on Monday start with the Prazipro. I'm wide open to advice at this point though if you can think of something else I might be able to do to save this gorgeous fish. <The Prazi, perhaps with concurrent treatment with Metronidazole/Flagyl (can be done) is a "shot in the dark" but may work... It could be that there is something else going on here... Damage to the gas bladder, an idiopathic tumour... that is not thus treat-able> For what it's worth, I've tried feeding mysis, brine, scallops, clam on the half shell, Nori strips stuck to a rock and stuck to a typical "Nemo" shaped algae clip, shredded fish and shredded shrimp. All of this has been mixed with garlic extreme, Selcon, Zoe and I even tried a vitamin C mix that Kent makes. <All worth trying> I've also tried these foods plain with no additives and he doesn't seem the least bit interested. So not only does it have a large intestinal bump, it also wont eat. <Mmm, might need to be force fed if it starts wasting> It still seems nice and fat and healthy, besides the bump. <What IS it eating?> I'm not horribly worried yet and I think the fish is savable, it swims upright, has nice clear eyes and isn't particularly scared of me. I walk up to the QT and it hides but then it comes out and looks at me and will come right up to the front glass. Typical inquisitive angel behavior, just with a large bump protruding. Water "settings" now, by the way, are 1.009 salinity, <Oh! I would not keep this fish in this low spg... This IS likely THE principal reason it is not feeding... could be directly related to the "bump/s"> temp is 76 degrees, there is a sweeping powerhead with a bubbler attached to help with O2 exchange and a typical hang on the back filter to keep the water clean. pH is 8.4 (raised up slowly from 8.2 while he was in the display). It was actually not a planned raise, I was buffering a little over zealously I guess when I lowered the salinity... but it went from 8.2 to 8.4 over the course of 3 days, so I don't think that is the cause of the bump, although I don't know a lot about pH harming fish. Any help you can give would be appreciated greatly! Sorry for the long story but I wanted to make sure you guys had all the background. Grant <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/hyposalandcrypt.htm and the linked files above re this treatment and some of our feelings re. Bob Fenner... who can imagine a scenario where this fish specimen was "needled" to release air from its gas bladder... and subsequent low spg exposure has led to this pathology>

Grey Poma
I recently bought a 4" Grey Poma angel. It's in my 60 gallon reef until I'm confident enough to put it in the 240. 
<Good idea>
My water parameters are 0 ammonia, nitrite, nitrate. Temperature is 78. I have 1 marine Betta, 2 green clown gobies, 1 sailfin tang, 1 Wardley's wrasse, and 1 tomato clown. The Angel is eating, but it's getting skinny. I'm thinking intestinal parasites.
<Possible>
I feed a lot, but the fish is extremely shy, the tang is a pig. I was wondering if I took the tang out and put it in the 240 until the Poma is all nice and fat would make a difference.
<Maybe, or...>
Or I can put the Poma in the 240. the 240 has 6 true perculas, 1 blue damsel, and 2 striped. the water is 76°. It's been set up for 1.5 months. It's relatively
understocked for now. I'm not sure of the water parameters. I feed flakes, frozen Mysis, frozen bloodworms, brine shrimp, Angel Formula. I'm trying to get it to nibble at the Angel Formula, but the other fish get to it first. It'll eat everything else.
<I would move this fish... and possibly try soaking whatever it is eating in one of those new "Garlic" materials (or make your own)... I don't endorse their use for "ich" remedying... but have seen positive results for "skinny fish" (presumed intestinal parasite) disorders (especially in Puffers)... And do try placing some new live rock (a type with a maximum amount of sponge and tunicate material on/in it. This will help on a few counts... as food, water conditioner and disrupter of current hierarchies.
Bob Fenner, who would do all this for your Chaetodontoplus soon, like now>

Re: one sided breathing
>Marina, thank you for the advice.
>>You're quite welcome, I hope that it's been of some help.
>Its taken years to accept but I finally realize we all need help from time to time.
>>I learned a while ago to just give up the idea that I don't need help.  LOL!
>Also, on a positive note my Blue Line (Chaetodontoplus septentrionalis) angel began breathing from both sides yesterday and respiration slowed to a more normal rate.
>>Excellent.
>He had not eaten since receiving him which has been five days so I tried minced clam on the half shell which was received well.
>>Great, getting him started is half the battle.  
>Thinking he cannot sustain on clams alone I mixed in frozen Mysis with the minced clam. How and what other foods do you suggest I introduce, I've refrained from live brine so far and would like to stay away if possible.
>>I would, too.  If you're more concerned with getting him fattened up, keep giving him the clam (soaked in a good supplement like Selcon), and you might try instead of the live brine more Mysis.  Also offer a bit of squid, krill, maybe even bits of other fish.  Soak everything in Selcon at this point, once he's on his way then you can reduce it to a few times a week.
>I've gone through the related files and the forum sections without
success. Of course given the size of your site I probably flew over them, Ha! I floated a piece of washed spinach but it didn't get touched, I didn't mention that I set some live rock in for him to graze on, though it hasn't been successful.
>>Don't give up yet.  Do you happen to have on hand one of the frozen angel formulas?  IIRC they also have bits of sponge and whatnot that the larger angels seem to really like.
>I'm thrilled that he's begun to nibble, its a starting point.
>>Absolutely!
>I've done my research but can't seem to find a whole lot. Any thoughts?
>>I'll link you to the FAQ, but I'm guessing you already have it.  I'm going to do a quick Google, as well as searching reefs.org.  Be back in a minute!
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/chaetodonoplus/faqs.htm
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=1140
http://ichtyonb1.mnhn.fr/Summary/SpeciesSummary.cfm?ID=11124
>>This one searching via Advanced Aquarist online zine
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/cgi-bin/websearch.pl
>>I know this isn't much, but it's a start.  I do hope it helps, especially the one link that speaks more specifically to feeding.  I don't think this angel will be very interested in vegetable matter outside of the algae it might choose to nibble at.  Good luck!  Marina

Sick Singapore Angel?
Hello,
<Hi there! Scott F. here today>
My new Singapore Angel has Ich.  He is about 4 inches long, good color and has clear eyes.  I went to the store to buy Ich medication (Rid-Ich), but the owner steered me over to Mardel Copper Safe.  He said I only have to medicate once and with half the prescribed treatment because of the angel.  The angel is in a 10 gallon bare bottomed quarantine tank.  Should I treat with Copper Safe?  For how long and with what amount?
<There is a lot of disagreement about whether or not to use copper with many angelfish species. I feel that Coppersafe is a good product, but the choice to use copper is a judgment call on your part. If it were me, I'd rather use a Formalin-based product than a reduced dosage of Copper. The use of copper is dependent upon a specific dosage, and should be tested for while in use. All medications should be administered in a separate aquarium.>
I have had the angel for about a week.  Whenever I come into the room he hides in a cave.  He has only eaten live Caulerpa and nothing else.  How long can he go without food?  Will he eventually eat?  Thank you for your time. Sam Reef
<Well, Sam, it's important that the fish eats as much food as possible, as soon as possible. Yes, these fish don't have the best reputation for being easy feeders. If the fish is ill, this could complicate things, but it is important to keep food available to the fish. Don't give up! Regards, Scott F.>

Singapore Angel Fish's eye turned bright blue
>Hi, I bought a Singapore Angel Fish about 4 weeks ago.  For the first week it would not eat.  After the first week it started eating and now acts perfectly normal and eats very readily.  However over the past week I have noticed that one of his eyes has swelled up a little bit and turned blue.  I was wondering if you could give me any type of advice as to what to do.  Thanks, John
>>While I'm not familiar with color changes as you've described, I think it's safe to say that it is very possible he scraped or otherwise injured the eye.  If you're not doing so now, get some Selcon and begin soaking his food in it.  Nutrition and excellent water quality are a fish's best friend, so address those issues first.  Also, go to our home page to the Google bar and try either "injured eye" or "exophthalmia".  We have very extensive FAQ's on the subject.  Good luck!  Marina

Problem With A Poma (Sick Angel)
Dear Scott,
<Hello again!>
I bought a pair of gold-stripe maroon clowns on Wednesday and added them to my tank with the Grey Poma, but now I have noticed that the Poma has developed white-spot.
<Yikes! No quarantine? I don't want to scold you now- but...Ya gotta quarantine all new arrivals to avoid problems like this in the future, okay?>
It is not a really heavy infestation but I know I need to cure it. The angel has been trying to solicit the boxing shrimp into cleaning it but I have not yet observed them doing so. The clowns are still free of spots but what is the best way to go about treating them? I know copper is toxic to angels, so I bought some Vertaid medication which contains Quinine hydrochloride and Malachite green from another fish shop and the guy there said to add 1ml per 70l for four days and do partial water changes if
the fish or inverts look stressed.
<Well, some angel species are very sensitive to copper, mainly Centropyge species. I have used copper on a variety of angels without problems. Of course, if you are concerned about this medication, I'd recommend a Formalin-based product as an alternative.>
I impulse bought this product because I did not know what else to do. Should I treat the whole tank or isolate the fish in a separate tank and do it as it is going to take a while to set up a hospital tank?
<Id treat all affected fishes in a separate tank, and let the display run fallow for a month or so. My advice is to NEVER treat in the display tank.>
He said that he would not recommend a freshwater dip as this may shock the fish more.
<Well, freshwater dips can be a bit rough on an already-stressed fish. Their effectiveness can vary, and I would not consider a FW dip a primary treatment method>
Can you please put me on the right track to treat my fish, I do not want to lose them. Yours Sincerely Adam Harbeck
<Well, Adam- I'd remove the affected fish to a separate system for treatment, and let the display tank run without fishes for a month or so. Follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter concerning dosage and duration, regardless of what medication that you choose to use. Follow through and keep observing your fishes carefully during the process, and I'm sure that your fish will make it through fine! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Angelfish with Rapid Breath
Hello,
<Hi! Ryan Bowen with you today>
I recently bought a Personifer angelfish. about 4-5" with full colored face. Its currently in a 46gallon bow front QT tank, with a Fluval 304, and a 4 watt UV sterilizer. <Great to hear> Its swimming around normally, its breathing rapidly. I've had angelfish before and I know they breathe a little slower. Tank is fully cycled, there's only a trace of nitrates. Its not eating, but I only got it two days ago, so I'm not entirely worried... yet. I just want to know if
there's something that I don't see is wrong. <Ammonia?  Also check for gill flukes.> I have black garbage bags that I've cut to make a makeshift
"kelp forest" to ease its acclimation and to give it a sense of security. It doesn't appear to be stressed because it approaches the tank when I put my face near it, but the rapid breathing has me worried. <Yes, I'd be nervous as well> any insights would be greatly appreciated. Also I gave it a F/W bath before putting it into the tank. But like I said, it doesn't appear to be stressed except for the rapid breathing. well over 80 gill movements a minute.
<I'd give him a few days, but keep an eye on water quality and gills for disease.  I'd execute daily water changes to keep things fresh in the QT.  Thanks, good luck! Ryan>