Pump?? Closed loop choices 4/15/09 Hi, crew of the W.W.M. <Hello Manny.> I'm planning on doing a closed loop on my reef tank. I ordered a Oceans Motions 4 way. <Nice.> The thing is I got two pumps one a mag-24 the other is a Gen-X PCX 100 water pump and I'd like to know which one would you suggest. I know the Dart would be the chose but, not at the moment. Here is a drawing of what I plan on doing. Any suggests would be grateful. <It looks good, a plumbing and graphic masterpiece for sure! For the pump I would just use the GenX for the time being. It is just going to be the more reliable choice in this situation from my experience.> Again thanks for the help in the past it cleared up my mind. Thanks Manny <Welcome, have fun with this project! Scott V.> Pump?? Closed loop choices 4/16/09 Thank you, Scott for the fast reply. Manny <Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Closed Loop Plumbing 2/4/09
Hello
To all of the people who have inspired me to become a better fish keeper and now I am in the midst of a complete overhaul of my tank.
<Great to hear, hello!>
Onwards and upwards to the question at hand.
I'm currently trying to plumb a closed loop using 2 pumps (what I have on hand) what would be the best route "t" together at the sump or can I have separate inputs on the closed loop?
<Either can be done. You will just want to make sure the line is large enough as to not restrict the flow too much. What size pumps are we talking about?>
I'm lost and would appreciate any input you would have.
Robert McGee
<Do also distinguish between a closed loop and sump returns. If these are feeding from you sump you will want to take a look at the overflows to be sure you have enough capacity there. Scott V.>

Pump size question 10/25/07
Hi. I am setting up a new 75 gallon reef. <Hello, congrats on the new setup>
I drilled the tank for a 1.5" bulkhead for a drain, and plan to go over the rim for the return. Head height is about 4'. I am wondering what pump size I need for the return. I am planning on using 1.5" flexible PVC for my drain and return lines. I am going down to the sump and directly back up with only 1 return. I could T off and do 2 returns if it is recommended.
<That depends on other flow in your tank. If you have powerheads or a closed loop, then one return should be fine. If that is your only planned tank flow then I would recommend two smaller returns. Either way, 1.5” return is not necessary, ¾” or 1” will be plenty. >
Am looking at a mag 9.5 which looks like it should be a great match, but I wanted to clarify.
<Mag 9.5 is fine for your setup with one 1.5” overflow, although I must say I am a fan of overflow redundancy (if one 1.5” overflow will flow a Mag 9.5, then two 1.5” overflows provides a safety margin if an overflow gets clogged). It is not absolutely necessity, just something to consider. >
Thanks!
<Glad to help, Scott V>

Return Manifold and Pump Size? - 03/03/07
Hello to all and thanks in advance,
<<Howdy…and you’re welcome>>
In an effort to rid me tank of annoying power heads and lower temps I am building a closed-loop water return manifold in my 55 gal tank (48”l x 12”w x 20”h).
<<Ok>>
The tank is un-drilled so until I move out of this limiting apartment and upgrade I am sumpless (I refuse to use an overflow box with J or U tube because I would like my security deposit back when I leave).
<<Hee…indeed!>>
I am building the system out of ¾ in. PVC tubing and fittings, and going down to ½ in. at the 45 degree elbows coming out of the T’s.  There will be 10 outlets (4 on the front and back and 1 on each side) with at least 3 or 4 of these being plugged up to allow for changes in flow when needed later on.
<<Ah…good idea>>
The pump is either going to be directly behind the tank for ‘0’ head or on the floor below with 53 in. of head pressure needed.
1- I am trying to find out what size pump would be needed for something like this.  I am thinking in the 1200 to 1500 GPH range.
<<Figure “at least” 250 gph per ½” nozzle, plus another 20% for the eventual bio-film buildup in the manifold piping and this means you need a pump that will provide a minimum of 1800gph “after” head-loss (This is assuming only six of the ten nozzles will be open at any one time…otherwise calculate as necessary)>>
2- Do you think this will be adequate or overkill?
<<Will need to be a bit more in my opinion.  But do be sure to plumb a “gate-valve” on the output side of the pump to temper flow if needed>>
The tank houses 4 damsels and a blue spotted sharp nose puffer (I know he is not reef safe but he is oh so cute and has yet to even looked twice at any of the corals  <<yet>>), various inverts and some corals (whose numbers seem to be increasing…ahh the addiction)
3- Also in purchasing the pump should I be purchasing one rated for pressure or one for free flowing circulation?
<<I would consider a pressure-rated pump for the closed-loop…though a “large enough” non pressure-rated pump will work>>
I am looking at the Japanese Iwaki pumps for more than one reason, choices are:  the MD40RLXT which is a circulating pump rated at 1,200 GPH, and either the MD55RLT for pressure rated at 1,080 GPH or MD70RLT – 1,500 GPH.  What do you think of these choices?
<<All great pumps but…  The 70RLT should work if you’re willing to cap off a one or two more nozzles than originally planned, but I think you would be better off getting the 100RLT for your planned configuration>>
4- Considering heat transfer and electrical usage do you think it is worth my time to also be looking at MAG drive pumps?
<<The Japanese motored Iwaki pumps are fairly economical to run and also surprisingly cool in my experience and would be my preference here>>  
I won’t be having any other pumps running except the MAG – 3 drive that is on my AquaC Remora Pro protein skimmer.  I would rather not be paying an arm and leg each month to run the tank, but I also don’t want to make soup of my tank with super high temps, especially come summer time.
<<Understood.  Don’t discount the effectiveness of evaporative cooling…install a couple fans to blow across the surface of the tank to help keep water temperatures down>>
Once again thank you,
Randy
<<Happy to share.  EricR>>

Re: Return Manifold and Pump Size? – 03/26/07
Hello again,
<<Hello Randy>>
Thanks for the advice given below.
<<Hope it was useful>>
I went ahead and got myself a slightly used Iwaki MD 100RLT from a fellow reefer to power the closed-loop (way too expensive to buy a new one).
<<A good choice and surprisingly quiet for their size/flow-rate... in my experience>>
I am about to upgrade to an Oceanic 72 RR bow front that has the mega-flow overflow and now some new dilemmas have arisen.
<<Oh?>>
Underneath I am going to be setting up a 10 gallon refugium that will be fed by a T coming from the tank drain w/ a valve to slow down the rate and then gravity flowing at a slower rate into a 10 gallon sump w/protein skimmer, etc.
<<Ok...but rather see use of larger vessels if possible>>
So now that you have an idea of the setup here are some questions that I hope you can help me with.
<<I shall try>>
1. Do you think that the Iwaki MD100rlt pump is too much pump to be used as the return line for my sump?
<<Gosh yes?!  The 1” drain in your “mega” overflow will only handle about 350gph before you start having issues...and it will certainly NEVER handle the output from a 2000gph pump like your Iwaki>>
I am torn between attaching my manifold to the return from the sump, or using a second pump as a return and keeping the manifold and Iwaki pump on a closed-loop.
<<The latter is your only choice here...with something like a Mag-5 for your sump-return pump>>
2. Considering that my manifold was made for a 55-gallon, three of the four sides fit perfect in the 72-gallon bow front, except obviously enough the bow side.
<<Yes, but is this really an issue?>>
I am contemplating getting some schedule 20 PVC and using a heat gun to bend the PVC into the curve needed to flow with the line of the bow and then cutting in where needed for the T's.
<<I see>>
Do you think that schedule 20 PVC will be strong enough to handle the pressures, and do you know if it is strong enough to be able to handle heating it up and bending it like I want to do?
<<Yes to the first (I can see Bob cringing)...<I am. Use flexible instead. RMF> I have used this pipe myself (has a larger inside diameter than SCH-40 of the same diameter, i.e. allows more water flow) with good/reliable results on straight unrestricted runs, but I don’t know that it has enough thickness for bending without becoming too weak/flimsy.  But it is cheap enough I think you should give it a try and determine for yourself...can always go with SCH-40 if need be.  Have you bent PVC before?  You will need to place some type of media “inside” the pipe when you go to bend it to keep the walls from collapsing...sand often works well and will also help to hold heat>>
3. In plumbing my refugium I am trying to figure out if I should have raw water from the tank flow into it, or skimmed water T'd off from the sump?
<<Raw water from the tank>>
Then depending on that, where I want the water going as it comes out of it; into the skimmer compartment or past it to be pumped up to the tank?
<<Directly to the pump chamber to prevent the skimmer from removing plankton is my choice>>
I figure it should flow past the skimmer to allow any living matter that escapes a chance to make it up to the tank and become food.
<<Ah yes...so you do understand>>
I am also thinking that is should be raw water flowing in because the waste from above can become food for whatever is living in the refugium.  Does my logic make sense?
<<You’ve already figured it out...yes, makes sense>>
Thanks in advance for your input,
Randy
<<Always welcome, Eric Russell>>

Manifold Questions – 12/29/06
Dear Crew,
<<Hello>>
Your site is GREAT.
<<A collective effort…thank you>>
Thank you for such an awesome resource and your time.
<<We are happy to share>>
I have some Q's re: setting up a manifold & related pump mechanics.
<<Let’s see if I can be of service…>>
I have a 135 gal. FOWLR w/ 1200-gph over-flow to sump and return to tank by 1100-gph external pump.  I'd like to use a 2nd external pump (don’t want the heat/look of a submersible) for the manifold if possible.
<<Ok>>
I am looking at a Sequence Reeflo "Dart" pump, rated @ 3,600 gph with only a 160 watt draw.  I can’t/won't drill the tank and don’t really want a 2nd overflow.
<<Well, that complicates things (though I don’t recommend a siphon overflow for this application).  How do you expect to “feed” this pump?>>
1) I assume I can't use Dart from existing sump/overflow because the Dart's rating will overflow my tank unless I add a lot more overflow capacity?
<<Indeed…and even so, if this sump is located in a “living” space you would likely find the noise from the extra volume to be quite disagreeable>>
2) Looking at the pic below, can I avoid an overflow box by just setting the Dart below the PVC siphon line in the tank.
<<I wouldn’t…these pumps are not “self-priming,” and anytime the pump stops your “prime” is likely to be lost>>
I assume siphon would be fine once pump is running?
<<Till a power outage…and how do you propose to start the siphon in the first place?>>
But, would this set-up maintain siphon in event of a power loss?  
<<Is a gamble.  If all the manifold outlets are submerged you “might” be able to maintain the siphon but there is no certainty.  A gravity drain/below-water throughput is the only way to feed this pump in my opinion>>
3) If the pump is "self-priming", does this mean it draws the water from the tank and creates the siphon (or does the pump only push water that's already reached it)?
<<Do double-check with the manufacturer, but I’m pretty sure this pump is NOT self-priming and needs to be “flooded” to function properly>>
3) The pump has a 2" suction & a 1.5" discharge.  I need to take the discharge down to 1/2" for the manifold.  What effect will this have on the flow rate & the pump life?
<<There will be some decrease in flow as the pump is not “pressure rated”…not aware/sure of effect on pump life, if any.  This is a popular pump for this application…perhaps you could post this question among the users of this pump on the reef forums (reefs.org/reefcentral.com)>>
I assume it decreases flow rate, increases water pressure and decreases pump life?
Is this ok? (both for purpose of manifold & pump)?
<<Yes to the first two…and the increase in pressure is a desirable aspect for use with the manifold>>
4) If my planned set-up does not work for reasons you will explain, can you please suggest how I would set-up a manifold with my 1200 gph overflow or is my only option a submersible?
<<Hook the manifold up to the return from your external sump pump>>
If a submersible, can you please suggest one?
<<As in “in the tank?”  Perhaps one of the larger Mag-Drive pumps (24, 36)>>
Any guess as to how much temperature would increase w/ a submersible? (I can't afford a chiller).
<<Could be significant (4-6 degrees)>>
5) Any other help you can provide would be SO appreciated.
<<You have two options as I see it Paul.  Either drill the tank to feed the additional pump…or simply design/connect a manifold to be used with the existing sump return pump>>
Thanks for your help,
Paul
<<I hope it has been useful.  Regards Eric Russell>>

Pump Recommendation ... for closed-loop    11/28/06
Hey Crew,
<<Hello!>>
Ok these are my last two questions for a bit, I promise!!! *Fingers crossed*
<<No worries mate...is what we do>>
I need a recommendation on what to do about my water flow pump on my 55-gallon tank.  Right now I have a Mag 9.5 running my water flow within a closed-circuit.
<<Closed-Loop?>>
It works great.
<<Ok>>
The problem is that the pump is in the wet dry to prevent any problems due to dripping water.  The pump is so loud and causes so much vibration that I can hardly be in the same room, not to mention the fish stress that I am sure the vibrations are going to cause.
<<Hmm...strange.  I utilize a Mag 12 for my return pump...and it is pretty quiet.  Based on your previous comment I’m guessing your pump is hard-plumbed?  Perhaps using a short length of “soft” tubing at each pump connection, and setting the pump itself on something cushy (a mouse pad) will alleviate much of the vibration and noise>>
Any recommendations on an exterior pump that is much quieter?
<<Iwaki pumps are extremely quiet in my experience (Japanese motors), but it’s hard to beat a good “submersible” installation>>
Any recommendations on how to quiet this pump down?
<<As already stated>>
The noise is coming from three things; a) the pump rests against the plastic of the wet dry and it acts like a drum.
<<Indeed...hence the need to isolate/insulate the pump re with a cushiony material>>
a) There is really very little room to correct this due to the size of the pump and the PVC coming out of it but I was thinking about wrapping the PVC in insulation to create a cushion.
<<Now you’re getting it>>
b) The pump is suspended in mid-air resting on some spare PVC so as not to affect the water level or the pump in the wet dry.
<<Mmm...then perhaps you can “wrap” the pump with mouse pads or similar material (secured with nylon zip-ties)>>
c) The pump makes a clicking noise like a power head that is out of water. I am thinking that I never noticed this noise before because I have never heard the pump operate outside of water.
<<Might want to check/replace the impeller>>
2) I am running a wet dry that uses a Cap 1800 to pump water in to a 10 gallon fuge.  The fuge then uses a Cap 1800 to pump water up 5 feet to the tank.
<<This is not a good idea/configuration...balancing the two pumps to preclude an overflow is nigh on impossible>>
Since one Cap 1800 is losing flow due to having to push water up.  I am having trouble controlling the flow of water from the wet dry that is really not losing much water flow pumping up 18 inches to the fuge.
<<My point exactly...much better to drill/plumb the wet/dry to drain via “gravity” in to the ‘fuge...using a single pump for the return from the refugium>>
The pumps come with a CHEAP ball valve to "control" water flow but it does not seem to want to stay in one place and finding the perfect balance as to where it should be set has taken me 48 hours and counting.
<<The “best valve in the world” won’t save you from eventual calamity...do rethink this strategy>>
The lines on the pumps are 1/2" (interior diameter) plastic tubes.  Any ideas on how to fine tune adjustments to water flow?
<<Can’t be done...reliably>>
If set too high, the wet dry will run DRY and that is not good on the pump.  If set too low, the wet dry is going to turn into a 10 gallon FULL wet dry which only hold 8 gallons. (Do the math 8 gallons - 10 Gallons = 2 Gallons on the floor + me sleeping outside to hide from my wife! "Honey, YOUR dog must have peed on the carpet A LOT. Don't worry honey, I will clean it up for you!! Bad puppy!")
<<Hee-hee...indeed!  Reconfigure the plumbing to gravity drain the one vessel in to the other or set up each with its “own drain and pump”...but don’t use your current configuration>>
Any help from these two problems would be great.
<<Am trying>>
I asked my LFS but they suggested a few auto shut off systems to control each pump and cycle them on and off when the flow got too high.
<<(sigh)  That’s ridiculous...and I’m sure they would have been happy to sell them to you...>>
Expensive solution in my book and not too good on the pumps I assume.
<<A stupid and impractical recommendation...in my opinion.  Are you certain they understood the situation?>>
My local Home Depot was not much help and I know Bob Fenner has his honorary orange vest from there so I assume he might know a bit more then most of the people at the store!
<<No argument there...but rest assured that my recommendations are good/in your best interest.  Please let me know if you need/wish to discuss either option further>>
Thanks in advance!
Brandon
<<Happy to share.  EricR>>

Re: Closed-Loop Confusion (Maybe Just Me...ER) – 11/28/06
Eric,
<<Brandon>>
To clarify for you.  I have a wet-dry and a fuge, two separate things.
<<Ok>>
The wet-dry is just used to house carbon and other media with no bio-balls and the fuge is 10 gallons with a 4" DSB that is going to be used to house a cleaning crew and macro algae.
<<Excellent...though I would be cautious with the choice of “cleaning crew” as many (crabs primarily) will prey upon the organisms you want to propagate in the refugium>>
I wrote you another e-email but forgot to clarify the points in this one.  In that e-mail I explained the wet-dry and the fuge are run with Cap 1800's and I am having some problems with that plumbing as well.
<<Ah yes...I just replied to that query (and forgot to add a title/date...sorry Bob!)>> <No worries... add these everyday... B>
The Mag 9.5 is ONLY for water movement.
<<I understand...now <grin> >>
Thanks for your recommendations.
<<Always happy to share an opinion or two>>
Will three outlets be enough to create water flow and future coral keeping?
<<Quite probable...if the flow is strong enough to reach end-to-end of the tank>>
From what you say, looks like if I want to run 5 outlets I need a 1,250 to 1,500 GPH pump.
<<Yes...and still only use ½” nozzles>>
Can you make any recommendations of a QUIET pump able to produce this much flow?
<<Iwaki and GRI make quality pressure-rated pumps that work well for closed-loop systems and are also very quite (considering).  You will know they are there if out in the open, but based on your other email, I think they would be a more quiet solution than what you have (with the current configuration)>>
Thanks for all your help,
Brandon
<<Quite welcome.  Eric Russell>>

Equipment list for 500 gallon system   11/26/07
Hello,
<Hey Kirk, JustinN with you this fine evening>
And thank you for answering my question:
<No problems, is what we exist (as a group of like-minded individuals, not as a personal crusade! *grin*) for>
For my Xmas present this year, my wife has given me the OK to get a 450 (96x36x30) custom acrylic gallon tank for our new home.
<Very nice! Quite an undertaking, and quite a woman for letting it happen. *grin*>
The largest tank I have had to this point has been a 125gallon tank. I have been in the saltwater hobby for 8 years, but I must say this is an exciting but seemly overwhelming task.
<Can be daunting>
I know the choice of filtration, pumps, skimmers and crucial to the success of this project.
<Absolutely>
With that said, I would like to know what types of skimmers would you recommend for a tank of this size.  I am going to have a mixture of fish (large angelfish, triggers (pink tail or bluethroat), butterfly (copperband), clowns, and possible a Naso tang) and corals (mostly being LFS and a clam or 2).  I am NOT going to keep SPS corals.
<Am sure you know this, but still feel I must mention that both the angels and the butterfly run a very high possibility of nipping both corals and clams to death.>
Skimmers
------------
The research I have done so far has led me to the following skimmers:
H&S
Bubble King
Deltec
Klaes
I would like to know if a Euroreef or ASM skimmers are a good choice for this large of a tank.  Whatever skimmer I decide on, it needs to be a well design skimmer AND produces a sufficient amount of skimmate.
<I believe any of these would be sufficient. Just to be safe, get a skimmer that is recommended for a tank larger than your overall water volume. That should give you the piece of mind you seek, regardless of manufacturer.>
Filtration/Pumps
-------------------
I am planning on a closed loop system, and for a pump choice it must be quiet and emit low heat.  I was thinking about Dolphin AMP Master pumps, but some other reefers have mentioned larger Bluelines, but I do not know much about them.  Can you offer any suggestions in this area?  How much water flow (i.e., gph/hr) should I plan for??
<Alas, I have no experience with either pump, but going on what I've heard, I hear nothing but glowing praise for the Blueline line of pumps. Sequence pumps also seem to carry a similar reputation. Sorry I'm not of more assistance here.>
Calcium Reactor
------------------
Is this a mandatory piece of equipment with a tank this size? If so, can you suggest some models for me to research.
<I would not consider it mandatory, no, but it will simplify and automate that much more of your maintenance. Korallin, Knop and Tunze all make readily available calcium reactors.>
Thanks for any advice you can give.
Kirk
<Well, wish I could say I had more specific recommendations for you, here, but I think you will do fine. Just read as much reviews of equipment as possible on online forums, talk to local reef clubs, and research before you purchase. Do keep us informed on this wonderful sounding project! -JustinN>