Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 08/31/09
I would like to thank you in advance.
<<We’re happy to help>>
Since all systems seemed different I was unable to get any answers to my problem. You mentioned not enough circulation as possible one aid, protein skimmers, excess lighting and so on.
<<All mentioned on the site, yes>>
I have a 90 gal. display reef which is run off a 100 gal unlit sump and a 30 gal frag tank that also runs off the sump.
<<Okay>>
This baffles even my supplier as "everything is right" (apparently not) according to him.
<<Mmm… Everything but the source of nutrients fueling the nuisance algae>>
I do not use a bio filter of any kind relying on the live rock. I do have Eheim wet/dry canisters at the ready if you recommend them, which so far I have been advised against the use of (my supplier said their use would come back to haunt me down the road) but to rather rely on my live rock, all Fiji Island real stuff.
<<This is a bit over-simplified but, I do agree that on reef systems a wet/dry filter can be so efficient at converting nitrogenous compounds to Nitrate faster than the “live rock” can deal with it that they become problematic>>
The display tank is lit by 2-250 watt 14,000K bulbs. For circulation I have about 700 gph being circulated up from my basement sump. I have a Fluval FX5 kicking the circulation at 925 gph (running empty). I also have two Hagen 802 powerheads adding an additional (est.) 440 gph each. This tank really churns.
<<Indeed>>
Nitrates are kept at near zero, phosphates even lower, I use strictly RO water have a sump mounted Kent 220 needle wheel protein skimmer
<<I think you mean a Coralife 220…and I have no doubt (either way) that you could improve things with a better skimmer>>
but only run carbon about once a month.
<<Time to step this up>>
I use strictly Salifert test kits so I know the following readings are quite accurate.
<<Good test kits, yes…but I’m skeptical your Nitrate/Phosphate readings are of much use re the abundance of nuisance algae “skewing” the results>>
Hard/Alk is kept at 1,250 ppm
<<I do hope you mean this to be the Magnesium level. Most test kits measure Alkalinity as mEq/L or dKH…and while some will give Alkalinity results in ppm (LaMotte), 1250 ppm would be some 4-5 times too high for an Alkalinity reading>>
calcium 450 ppm (as best I can as this system eats calcium at an incredible pace so I am about to add a calcium reactor). I've been a reef hobbyist for over 20 years and I have never had such an out of control green hair algae problem like this one.
<<Does happen to the best of us. I’ve been in the hobby more than 3 decades, and still do battle with nuisance alga from time to time>>
I've done the snail and crab route (I saw in one of your answers you recommend. snails vs. crabs)
<<I actually do not…but opinions do vary here>>
but even my army of snails can't control this.
<<As is usually the case… Often the snails won’t/don’t even feed on the problem alga. And adding an “army” of such generally leads to starvation and resultant pollution/exacerbation of the problem>>
My sand bed is less than 1" deep in the display tank. In the sump it is about 4" but kept vacuumed as this is where we do our water changes from.
<<This vacuuming may be disturbing the bacteria layers and nullifying the benefit re, if done to thoroughly/too often>>
My frag tank is also shallow in sand, has a 150W, 14,000K halide and is on an alternating time schedule. Halides are on for 8 hour periods, no other source of light. I have spent a fortune on this system (I am also a serious planted wild caught discus hobbyist) and I am ready to call it quits. This tank is not an enjoyment anymore, more of a nightmare. PLEASE HELP, I'VE BEEN FIGHTING THIS PROBLEM FOR A YEAR NOW!
<<Well Cindy, the problem isn’t going to go away until you determine and correct the source of nutrient import (although, there is speculation that at some point a large nuisance alga growth can generate its own nutrient supply). This “source” could be many things and it is virtually impossible for me to say just what it is…especially since you don’t provide much info here re your feeding/maintenance/husbandry routines. You did state you use only R/O water, but have you checked this as a possible source? Perhaps the membrane is faulty/needs changing… At any rate, I would consider adding a DI resin cartridge to the R/O filter setup. I would also add carbon AND Poly-Filter to that empty canister filter you have running. This won’t “cure” your problem…but it can help slow down or stop the growth/spread of the nuisance alga. There’s also been anecdotal proof that maintaining pH for several weeks in the 8.5-8.6 range can help rid a current nuisance alga problem. But in the end, you still need to determine the cause and deal with it. Do feel free to write back/discuss your maintenance/husbandry procedures if you wish>>
Thanks so much,
Cindy
<<Happy to share… EricR>>

Re: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 09/01/09
Hi Eric:
<<Hey Cindy>>
I have a little more time now. In addition to the following info I sent you this morning
<<I’m afraid I haven’t seen/received this>>
I thought I would share a bit more. My other problem I have had in the past is with our FX5 being loaded with any form of media or sponges. Being the ultra powerful filter it is, it is capable of drawing from as far away as 4 ft. This has resulted in major air bubble production.
<<Mmm… I seem to recall a member of my local reef club having similar problems with one of these units. He ended up returning it to the store>>
Our reef looks like a blizzard in the tropics.
<<Not good>>
This is why I have been running the FX5 empty.
<<Then maybe you could invest in a (couple?) smaller unit to use for some ancillary chemical filtration>>
The first thing I put any kind of anything in it we get "whiteout conditions" on my reef tank. I will remove the powerheads so as there is less oxygen feed to the FX5.
<<Not necessary/not the issue>>
The reef was much cleaner with the FX5 loaded but the corals could not take the bubbles and all retracted.
<<Indeed>>
My supplier called Hagen on my behalf today looking for a solution to the air bubble problem with the FX5. Between us, we have not been able to stop this problem to date. We have tried about most everything he carries in his store but no success to date. Do you have any idea what might help with breaking up this bubble problem?
<<Perhaps a reduction in flow via a valve on the “output” side to temper re>>
In the meantime he is going to order me a new, better membrane.
<<Did you test the effluent from your R/O unit? Perhaps this data was in the info I have not received…>>
The skimmer we have been talking about is an Octopus Extreme (200 gal.).
<<Ah! Actually, I have heard some good things about the “Octopus” skimmers>>
Is there something you would recommend more?
<<I am a big fan of the Euro-Reef skimmer line (is what I use). But do also like/recommend skimmers from AquaC, H&S, Bubble King, and Tunze>>
Incidentally the Coralife skimmer's cone and collection cup are cleaned daily. The impeller and bubble column are cleaned monthly.
<<Very good>>
Thank you again for your time.
Cindy
<<Happy to share… Eric Russell>>

R2: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 09/01/09
Thanks so very much Eric:
<<Ah! The missing query… And you’re quite welcome Cindy>>
Yes, you are right, "Coralife skimmer"
<<[grin]>>
As to my husbandry methods.....minor details!!!!
<<But it truly is often “in the details”>>
I feed strictly frozen foods about 3 to 4 times a week and only a cube at a time.
<<Yikes! I know you are trying to limit nutrient import…but you are starving your fish and your system. Algae issues or not, please, please feed your fishes a varied and “plentiful” diet>>
I only have a few fish on the reef, a clown, a Sailfin tang, a beta, a Banggai and a goby.
<<Mmm, not so few as to justify your feeding regimen… I would feed at least several cubes of frozen food, a couple times A DAY. Rinsing the defrosted food briefly under the tap (in a small fine mesh net like that used for brine shrimp) can help to rinse away excess nutrients from the pack water>>
The reef itself is heavily populated with soft polyped stony corals. The display tank probably has about 150 pounds of live rock, about 8 inches from the water surface. We water change at about 25% once a week normally unless I fall behind but we try to stay on top of our water changes regularly.
<<Just a thought, but have you tested your salt mix for excess Nitrate/Phosphate? Do also be sure to allow newly mixed salt water to “mature” a bit before use (48hrs.)…and I‘m also going to suggest letting water changes slip to every TWO WEEKS (for a while at least) to allow the system more time to stabilize/find its balance betwixt these, and to slow down any possible importation of algae fueling nutrients>>
Being into discus we know all to well the value of "keeping up". We have ultra soft tap water but I run every last drop through my RO. My tap water tests at 6.2 pH and no nitrates or phosphates.
<<Wow…nice>>
We replace the fiber cartridge monthly. We recently replaced the DI and carbon cartridges (upgraded brand my dealer ordered special for me) as well but to no improvement.
<<Mmm… I see…>>
Yes my dealer did recommend we replace the membrane if this doesn't work which it hasn't.
<<Most any R/O membrane should have a useful life of 12-24 months (often much longer) unless otherwise damaged>>
We have not gotten around to replacing the membrane but I will order one today. Yes we have considered buying a stronger skimmer. What would you recommend?
<<As stated in my earlier response I really like Euro-Reef but do also peruse the offerings from AquaC, H&S, and others>>
My dealer thinks we should go with an Octopus (sp?) but a more professional grade one as money is no object at this point in time having spent so much already. We just really need to get this thing straightened out. It has been so frustrating.
<<Indeed>>
Our dealer is going to a big aquarium show this month in Florida and asked if I wanted anything special. I will order the skimmer you recommend and was also wondering about a calcium reactor?
<<Can be a very useful adjunct. Check out offerings from Knop, Precision Marine, AquaC…>>
Regarding the hard/Alk. = OOOPS, 11.2 to 12.5, usually to the low end of that. I'll raise my pH as well. It is usually about 8.3 to 8.4. Thank you so much. This has been a real tough road. I know so much but yet so little and is so incredibly frustrating.
<<The learning process is indeed continuous. Aside from helping others, one of the very best aspects of assisting at WWM is the knowledge I gain each day re>>
We really do appreciate all your time and help Eric.
Cindy
<<It is truly my pleasure to share/conspire with you… Eric Russell>>

R3: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 09/02/09
Hi Eric:
<<Hey Cindy>>
I use Instant Ocean salt mixes.
<<Mmm, okay…>>
I will test it.
<<Very good>>
My husband is mounting our gauge on the RO unit today we just recently bought. I do think my membrane might have frozen once last year
<<Yowza…definitely a problem if this is so>>
so we will have to find a way to keep the new one from freezing.
<<Yes indeed…is important that the unit does not freeze>>
I will up my feeding regimen.
<<Excellent>>
I do have every type of frozen food my dealer carries. My freezer door is packed with an assortment of foods. We do "cook" (aerate and heat) our mixed saltwater for 24 hours but will up that to 48 hrs.
<<This is better, in my opinion>>
My dealer was going to order me the Octopus Extreme today but I will have him check into those other types you mentioned as he too was curious.
<<Okay>>
His supplier uses the Extreme himself on all his reef tanks but Jim (my supplier) has no first hand knowledge of them. Since our initial conversation I have loaded a Hagen 205 canister filter with Matrix carbon from Seachem (2 out of 3 baskets, floss in the third as a prefilter).
<<That’s great, but do get and use some Poly-Filter media as well…is excellent stuff>>
I generally use a slow running (passive) filter for carbon or other chemical media vs. using the FX5 which is just too fast to be effective on chemical media. I also loaded my FX5 with sponges = so far no bubbles but that will likely change. I now have an email communication from Cheryl at Hagen (who manufactures and distributes the Fluval FX5 for those of you who may not know) directly on bubble production problems with FX5s. When I get around to opening it I will forward it on to you for your other readers who may be having the same problem.
<<Thank you>>
They too are trying to help me get this under control once and for all. The FX5 is a great reef filter but you need a big enough system. When I had it on a 75 gal. enclosed reef it was indeed a nightmare. Now that my system is approx. 220 gal. (total) I am hoping with the overflow into the big sump and frag tank that I have defused the problem. The FX5 is on my 90 display tank where it can rapidly grab water-born particles. Other than water circulation it was doing me no good running empty however. I have chosen to run wooden airstones behind my "overflow barrier" to raise the pH to your recommended level. This has worked well in the past and I get no bubbles backing up into the reef display itself.
<<Hmm… This would seem to indicate poor gas exchange/an excess of carbon dioxide in your system. You don’t happen to have “covers” on the display do you? I would remove if so>>
I will have to reread your "valuable emails" again to be sure I have answered all your queries. You have certainly been a terrific help Eric. My reef already looks better, my corals opened more and my few fish more active.
<<Ah… Quite redeeming to read/know>>
As always thanks so much,
Cindy
<<Always a pleasure my dear… Eric Russell>>

Re: Green Hair Algae... Using WWM    9/2/09
but do get and use some Poly-Filter media as well is excellent stuff>>
<... PolyFilter... a product of Poly-Bio-Marine... look it up...>
What is that? I have an assortment of Eheim filter medias.
Are you saying to set up a small regular bio-filter vs. a wet/dry?
<... Learn to/use the search tool, indices on WWM... RMF>

R4: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 09/03/09
Hi Eric:
<<Hey Cindy>>
This is between us Eric and I'll leave it up to you if you want to put this online.
<<No worries…we do post most everything>>
I just wanted to bring you up you date.
<<Alrighty>>
My supplier is really pushing me to go ahead with a refugium as well as all the steps we are now taking.
<<Ah! An excellent suggestion…and one I should have made re your nuisance algae problems>>
He thinks I should do at least a 4' one because we do eventually plan on expanding this reef system and wants the refugium ready to take the load.
<<A smart man…the bigger the better!>>
I have sold frags to him in the past but since this problem with the algae my corals have since stopped reproducing. I use to get so many the 30 gal breeder tank could barely hold them all. He also would like to see me expand into some hard polyped stonies as well as a few other newcomers to the hobby. I know it is a good idea to go with a refugium as well and he wants me to take advantage of the show coming up on the 11th of this month because of the 30 to 40% discounts.
<<Okay>>
My purchases would be the calcium reactor, another long, wide aquarium for the refugium, a four bulb (he recommends T5 vs. compact florescent)
<<As would I>>
which would be tied into the main basement system (glad I went with a 100 gal. sump!!!), and the new membrane and the skimmer. Gee and I thought keeping horses was expensive!!!!
<<Indeed… Most folks, including many hobbyists, drop their jaws when they find out how much I have invested in my 500g (en toto) in-wall reef system>>
While reef keeping is definitely his specialty (he can't do discus to save his soul) he has been very interested in what all you have been teaching me.
<<Oh?>>
He is especially interested in the products you are recommend.
<<Ah… One of the perks here is hearing much about what works…what doesn’t. You do pretty much get what you pay for>>
I think he pushes me more than most his clients and that is OK with us. I do feel the pressure to "get it right" however.
<<You’re on your way>>
Some of my trainers in carriage driving and dressage did the same so I am use to that. I can roll with the tide pretty well at this point in time in my life.
<<Ah yes…>>
I do totally expect my reef to start a major transition soon while it "reseats" itself.
<<Indeed, and an interesting reference… We do often preach about a systems “balance” and how things go awry when this is upset>>
I know it will have to be monitored closely. I am anxious for the new protein skimmer as I think that will be about my biggest aide at this point.
<<Hmm… Yes… And probably about on par with adding a large vegetable refugium>>
That low pH tap water is great until you run the risk of pH crash in discus keeping. That happened once when I first got into discus keeping. Our water is soooooo soft (the pH is 5.8 in the winter as we get a lot of snow here) even the Salifert test kits can barely get a reading.
<<Wow… extremes, eh… Bob’s water comes out in chunks (he’s in San Diego)…is like liquid rock>>
I love the challenges of the reef and discus aquariums but sometimes I get a little gaga with it all. Both have the need for ultra clean water. I know taking the sponges out of the FX5 was a big mistake as that is when this mess all started.
<<They likely removed a lot of detritus/suspended matter…and would be beneficial re if cleaned weekly>>
We also have Central American cichlid and planted tetra aquariums. My husband (my second) is comparatively new to the hobby and I use the later mentioned aquariums to teach him. Someday he will graduate onto the discus and eventually the reef as he has that will to learn.
<<It’s nice to share your life with one who shares your hobbies too>>
He loves it and is actually looking forward to having a lab with all sorts of aquariums...........OHHHHHH NO.........here we go. We are both semi-retired and the aquariums occupy so much of our lives.
<<Mmm…I’m far from retired and my aquarium “occupies” much of my life [grin]>>
This reef has been real frustrating after all the money we have spent and how successful it use to be.
<<And it will be again…with perseverance, patience…and research/reading>>
I can't thank you enough for all your help.
<<Is why I am here>>
In many areas you confirmed what my supplier has been telling me.
<<Good to know>>
Before we took yet another "financial plunge" into this system I wanted serious help from someone who wasn't trying to sell me products that would eventually end up on a shelf.
<<Hee-hee! I won’t sell you anything, but I’ll certainly help spend your money!>>
He knows we love our aquariums and will spend what we need to for the benefit of the animals regardless. He wants me to back off the use of the power heads
<<…!>>
and does not feel they are necessary but I really want them even though they are an eye sore.
<<Strange he would recommend this… Good water movement is generally lacking in most hobbyists systems. If applied correctly, it almost can’t be overdone>>
I will need them if I want to eventually get into the hard polyped stony corals anyway
<<Even the “softies” need good water movement…and generally is more than that need by many stony LPS corals>>
which he doesn't sell much of because of their level of difficulty to the average reef hobbyist.
<<…?>>
He has them in his personal aquariums at his home and believes I will eventually be able to do them as well.
<<No doubt>>
I'm trying..... But my tanks have a long way to go at this point. I've done some tough stuff in the past but would not attempt it now with the way this system has been for the past year. I do seriously believe it is the responsibility of all successful reef enthusiasts to get into frag cultivation in the interest of reef preservation. I did not make much by way of store credit when I sold our tank bred stuff to my supplier but I was supplying him with a lot of entry level animals which meant less animals being harvested off our natural reefs.
Thanks again Eric,
Cindy
<<Happy to share my friend… EricR>>

R5: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 09/03/09
**<You don’t happen to have covers on the display do you? I would remove if so>**
I don't think so, what ever you mean here!
<<Hi Cindy… I’m referring to covers/tops/lids on the display tank/sump>>
HMMMMMM, carbon dioxide!!!!! Never thought to test for that one. I can't make out what you mean here Eric.
<<If your system is accumulating Carbon Dioxide, you may not have sufficient gas exchange. This can also happen when the house is newer/tighter and the doors and windows are closed as summer for air conditioning resulting in low air exchange in/out of the house. Another thought…this CO2 accumulation could even be coming from the large nuisance algae infestation>>
I will test for CO2 however. My oxygen levels are always at saturation. I only use an extremely thin layer of substrate in both the frag and reef
<<Then a DSB in a refugium would likely help much with your nuisance algae problem>>
and the sump is turned over fairly regularly which you told me to back down on. The frag tank does not hold much live rock and the reef has that "tweaked" circulation.
Just tested for CO2. No Carbon Dioxide present on this tank, plenty of Algae though
<<Hmm… Try testing first thing in the morning when just before the lights come on…>>
That airstone trick comes from freshwater fish keeping. Airstones do raise pH so I use them on my husband's cichlid tanks since our tap water is only 6.2. It works on our reef as well.
<<Indeed…but is messy (salt creep)>>
I can't use airstones on my planted aquariums because of the need for CO2 and it would also raise the pH too high on my wild caught discus aquariums. I am always looking for ways to avoid using chemical additives and this is one trick that has served me well in both freshwater and marine aquarium keeping. I am giving my supplier your recommended list of protein skimmers and calcium reactors.
<<Okey-dokey>>
I'll be curious to see what he comes up with.
<<Me too!>>
Do you really think I need a refugium or will an extremely powerful protein skimmer work for now?
<<I use and advocate the use of both…whenever possible>>
We plan on moving inside of a year and are dreading moving these tanks (especially the reef) as it is.
<<Moving tanks is no fun for sure>>
As always, you are great help
Cindy
<<As always, you are welcome… EricR>>

Polyfiber vs. Poly-Filter – 09/03/09
The polyfiber material I use for our Central American Cichlids is made by Aqua-Pure (distributed by HBH Pet Products). It is impossible to imagine this stuff in MEDIA form unless it is loaded inside of some type of bio balls. Media generally refers to either chemical or biological filtration so I got confused. I will have my supplier check on this stuff you mention but neither of us knows of any soft, fibrous material that comes in a media form vs. pad. I am afraid you have us both confused at the moment.
<<Hi Cindy… I think Bob replied to your earlier query re the Poly-Filter. Like he mentioned, this is made by Poly Bio Marine (try a web search re). The “Poly-Filter” is an ion-exchange resin bonded to a woven filter pad that can be used as-is or cut up to fit most any type filter. The resin scavenges organic and heavy-metal molecules, and changes color when exhausted. It does a great job and is a very useful product. EricR>>

Miscommunications? (I know "I’m" a bit confused) – 09/03/09
This is of a more personal nature. I am truly sorry if I have offended you by sending ideas I have found helpful in my forty years in the hobby Eric.
<<…? Not offended at all Cindy>>
I have only been in reef keeping for 20+ but I have been in freshwater for twice as long. My friend has owned his fish store for 27 years and he never heard of poly-filter MEDIA either.
<<Ahh… I think you have confused me with a response Bob made earlier re the Poly-Filter>>
You did not need to insult me online.
<<I can’t/won’t make excuses for my good friend’s seemingly terse replies at times…but I am sure he did not intend to offend>>
If I didn't need your help I would not have contacted you. I value your help very much. Right now I have my mother in Sloan Kettering in NYC recently diagnosed with cancer.
<<Sorry to realize>>
We are in the midst of a home sale and I commute into NJ 1 1/2 hours every day to work (one way) in addition to running my horse farm and home. I do have a few things on my mind right now including my reef system.
<<Indeed>>
Sorry if I seem a bit more dense than I should.
<<No worries here>>
I have been nationally published in horse management and training techniques and have "donated" innumerable hours to helping others with their horse problems as "The Horseman's Advocate".
<<Admirable>>
If I have something I have come up with through my years of experience in a field I like to share it such as the airstone and cone ideas.
<<And these will be posted with the next set of “dailies” for others benefit>>
I could care less about being given the credit.
<<Is not an issue>>
Try them yourself or if have a friend who is having problems with keeping their pH up for example, they really work. In horses I have the privilege of studying under some of the best in the business nationwide. I cross trained long before this became popular. You learn to borrow tricks from one riding discipline to another just as I have learned to do the same in the aquarium hobby.
<<Indeed>>
Of course I know about poly-fiber FILTER PADS (but nowhere on the packaging does it refer to the pads as media), we keep huge cichlids, they are a must have. I am familiar with most products for mechanical filtration on the market. I very, very much value your help, you have been terrific. I am really truly sorry if I have given you the wrong idea.
<<I think this has simply been a miscommunication>>
I just thought a few of my tricks might help others, I did not wish to be given credit for such however.
<<I’m not sure where the issue of “credit” came from…but the credit will go to you simply as the submitter of the information>>
If you know someone....................hopefully they will help others as they have helped me.
Cindy
<<Take a deep breath my friend [grin]…all is good. Eric Russell>>
>Not to be misunderstood. I do apologize for a lack of communication... W/o the previous correspondence being included I thought it best to encourage the writer to do their own searching, rather than discourse on too-broad a topic. It IS my opinion, after many years as a content provider in the ornamental aquatics interest, and fifteen plus years of building this resource (WWM) that Cindy would/will benefit from a cursory review of what is archived, rather then a novel question/answer series. RMF< 

Re: Miscommunications? (I know "I’m" a bit confused), grn. alg. control. WWM, RMF shortcomings/interface screening/resonance with  internal processes, current sys. status – 09/05/09
I will try and follow your advice.
<<Hi Cindy, Eric here… I’m assuming you are responding to Bob’s response re reading/researching. Please include previous exchanges with your correspondences. And for the record, Bob has very good reasoning for such advice. Our question and answer exchanges are fine…but there really is so much more for you to gain by your own research…to include discoveries of/information on topics we haven’t even considered>>
So much of what has been archived is conflicting or confusing to many of us.
<<Varying opinions/experiences… I do suggest folks to gather info from several sources and use their own good judgment to make a decision>>
I am not advanced in my pursuit that I can understand about much of what is being published in Coral Magazine for example. I have tried to follow the German approach in the past. I very much appreciate all your work, time and effort into making this such a wonderful and helpful site.
<<It is quite the collaborative effort, eh?>>
I do an incredible amount of reading and researching but I guess I should seek out more recently chronicled research info.
<<Old info/ideas don’t necessarily make for bad info/ideas>>
Is this what you are telling me to do?
<<As I alluded earlier… Bob is trying to impart that you will gain by going through our archives re nuisance alga, water chemistry, etc. But that’s not to say you can’t post queries on what you find if needed, too>>
I really do try with all my tanks to have all of them be as best as they can be and devote much of my time into keeping them running just right. My reef, although obviously lacking should not be this bad. I don't lose animals but still.....
<<Understood… We all have “visions” of what our tanks should be>>
My supplier is amazed at the amount of studying and research I do, the number of books and magazines, far more than any of his other clients. I read just about anything and everything late night, sometimes all night for nights in a row without sleep.
<<Yowza…>>
Perhaps I am only confusing myself by being so broad in my quest for knowledge.
<<Mmm, no…this is an excellent approach…but understanding does come with time>>
Is that what you want me to understand and do?
<<Keep reading/learning…yes>>
I want to learn but my time has been so limited these days and my reef just kept getting worse (there for a while I thought I had it slowed as there was a period of considerable improvement) to spite my management practices, almost daily tests to determine it's patterns, weekly water changes, light feedings, low phosphates and nitrates upgrading my RO unit keeping up my pH, Alk/hardness etc. Even my supplier couldn't imagine why my tank would be just this bad.
<<Determining the cause of such downturns is often difficult. Sometimes even leading hobbyists to completely dismantle/start a system over…as a last ditch effort>>
I think we will well be on the road to recovery now thanks to Eric and I greatly appreciate and thank you for the use of your site.
Cindy
<<A pleasure to share… EricR>>

R6: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!) – 09/05/09
Hi Eric:
<<Hi Cindy>>
That CO2 test was done very early.
<<I see>>
Our reef lights do not come on till 1:30 PM - 9:30 PM as I generally leave the house very early mornings under normal circumstances and want to be able to enjoy (and work on) my reef when I get home.
<<Not an uncommon practice. I would like to mention… I think a photoperiod closer to that from which your livestock comes from (Tropics) would be beneficial (and might even help your corals to better “compete” with the nuisance algae re nutrient absorption)…something around in the 10-14 hour range>>
I have not had too much problem with salt creep from the airstones in the past but then are right next to the overflow. If they get to be a problem I can always put them in this big sump. Getting back to the CO2 issue, we don't have air conditioning here in the great northeast so our windows are always open, fans running.
<<Lucky you… Here in the Southeast a very large portion of our energy bill goes to “conditioning” the air…couldn’t imagine being without it (though I did live without it as a youngster)>>
Even in the winter I like to leave a window cracked.
<<Then I surmise the CO2 is originating from the algae>>
I never told you entirely about our system. We use a Mag-Drive 1800 to send the water straight up one level (approx. 13 ft. total) into our display tank. The sump has the protein skimmer which I believe the motor turns over at 765 gph. You of course have the reef overflow sending water down a good 10 ft before it enters the sump so it comes down with strong gravitational force and churns the surface of the sump. The frag tank itself is fed by a Mag-Drive 500 tied into a tank long (34") spray bar (on a 36" long 30 gal. breeder tank) plus has yet another 802 powerhead all sending water into the overflow box (500 gph) and returning it into the sump. There is nothing on this reef that doesn't turn over at high speed. The sump is deep however. Of course you are right, the algae is going to generate CO2 but I can't imagine CO2 staying in solution in a system with this kind of turnover.
<<Ah…but the fact that simple aeration added to the display increases your pH speaks for itself>>
There is a tremendous amount of surface agitation throughout this entire system in the interest of oxygen generation.
<<And apparently, good that there is such…>>
Your tank sounds wonderful.
<<Thank you…having/enjoying such a large system has been a life-long pursuit. Now I just wish it were bigger!>>
My reef is not fancy, never has been. My biggest reef was a 125 gal. fully stocked. I lost that system however to a week long power outage, about $10,000 worth of live rock and animals were lost.
<<Mmm… And only strengthens my argument that the $700.00 I spent on a gas-powered generator for just such contingencies is “trivial” by comparison>>
Of course you can always recolonize the rock but it was still a devastating loss.
<<Have been there…can surely sympathize>>
We became stranded in an ice storm which crippled this area. A state of emergency was declared so no one could leave their houses not that any gas stations could pump gas. We ran out of gas for our generators
<<Oh!>>
but they were overheating anyway and could barely sustain all our aquariums running at "vital operation" only.
<<Mmm, I see… Sounds like more or bigger generators, and a plan for ample gasoline storage, is needed>>
Since we plan on moving we have not installed a standby generator here but will at our new location, another consideration if someone is seriously considering a large reef.
<<Indeed… But even a “smallish” reef system (around 100g) can represent an investment ten or more times the cost of a small generator to support such, in an emergency>>
I actually did not want to return to reef keeping after that but my supplier who is also my friend talked me into it. He was actually disappointed (sp?) when I got into discus (thinking I would never return to the reef), he doesn't even sell them but I can order discus through him when he gets his weekly fish lists faxed over. I plan on going to a longer and wider reef when we move but still not overly big. I am spread far too thin as it is and the planted aquariums are a lot of upkeep too (pruning, removal of dying leaves and so forth) especially since most of them house discus who can not take plant deterioration.
<<Ah yes… I kept a planted tank when I was stationed in the Netherlands back in the late 70s (was “the” thing to do there). I have often heard of planted tanks referred to as the “reef tank” of freshwater fish keeping>>
The new protein skimmer and membrane come in next week. I will have my supplier pick up the light for the refugium and calcium reactor at the show next weekend. Jim wants us to make our refugium (we made our sump too) with a waterfall into the reef.
<<Refugiums placed above, to gravity-drain in to the display, are thought by some to be “the best”>>
The real trick will be defusing the water pressure coming down from the reef into the refugium, probably a network of strategically (sp?) placed spray bars.
<<Okay…I’m confused…you did just state the refugium would drain in to the display…>>
I appreciate you telling me exactly what to look in this media. Sounds like great stuff.
<<The Poly-Filter? Indeed it is…>>
Normally, "believe it or not" I don't have time to spend on a computer but I need to get this reef straightened out. Of course I have supply catalogs from places like That Fish Place and Drs. Foster and Smith and have quite a library on fish books and various magazines such as "Coral" (Koralle) (I read late at night) but I avoid the computer and don't watch television at all. I do not work today so I will get around to those tests you asked of me at some point today. Well I better get off this thing and get something accomplished.
Thanks Eric,
Cindy
<<Happy to help… EricR>>

R7: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!), & Polyfilter/Chem Filt. media f'  – 09/07/09
Hi Eric:
<<Hey Cindy>>
I really do not want to take up to much more of your site time and space. You are just so darn helpful and I need to be organized before the show, here goes another couple of thousand dollars.
<<Cha-ching!>>
I recently bought a book called the Conscientious Marine Aquarist (seems more current then most my other books) which I was reading last night.
<<Ah yes…authored by Bob Fenner here at WWM>>
They mention those Poly-Bio Marine Filter Pads there, a favorite of advanced hobbyists such as yourself apparently.
<<An excellent product…very useful…all should have a few on hand for contingencies, if not just daily use…>>
When I told Jim exactly what I was after, he too knew right away and highly recommended the pads as well.
<<Ah good…must admit I was a bit perplexed when you stated earlier that he didn’t know what they were>>
I ordered 6 packages since they only seem to come in 3x 10 sheets.
<<Ah no… Can be obtained in 12”x12” sheets, and though harder to find these days, also in 3” discs (12pk)…with both of these being stronger concentrations/formulations than the 3”x10” pads. But not to worry…the 3”x10” pads will work very well for you. Do take a little time to research the site/product and learn a bit more re their use/function>>
At least I know I can get them through him.
<<Very good>>
I haven't seen them in my catalogs under ion exchange or filter medias.
<<Hmm, should be… Perhaps under “chemical media”>>
Why he didn't tell me about them sooner is part of my frustration sometimes with him but he is by far the best game in town and only 1 1/2 hours away.
<<Yikes…still a long haul>>
He isn't always as helpful as he could be.
<<Can’t always “think of everything”…ask me, I know [grin]>>
Part of my frustration is "lack of availability" in this area.
<<This is where learning/using the Internet is of great value>>
I have traveled hours in the past in search of a good supplier only to find their tanks look even worse than mine.
<<Indeed…nothing more perplexing than to walk in to a store to see tanks in disarray…dying/dead fish on display>>
The stores we do have cater more towards the average hobbyist (not that there is anything wrong with that but product lines are often limited for example I like much of Brightwell Aquatic's product line) but anything specialized I might need I ALWAYS have to special order.
<<Okay…I’ll say it again… Internet…>>
I am trying to take advantage of the show next weekend and the discounts they offer. The more info I can gather.......... Bob is right, I have only been online for three weeks now so I need to do much exploring.
<<Ah! Yes… Much to explore/learn>>
I do not blame Bob at all; I know he is only trying to encourage me to continue in my research. I know I have things I need to work on. It is not that I am not trying heart and soul on my own. Jim told me I just need to determine who seems to be in most agreement on topics and go with the overall consensus because it can become so confusing.
<<But not to follow blindly… The onus is on you to at least understand the arguments>>
I had always wondered about light duration. I was told to only leave my lights on about 8 hours.
<<And some reef enthusiasts do this…bit I think it should be longer, as explained>>
I run my lights on my planted tanks 12 hours, even the one with metal halide lighting.
<<Indeed>>
I always wondered why less for a reef!
<<…>>
I'll up the timers.
<<Yay!>>
Can I run my frag tank on the same light interval as my reef itself or should it be on alternating.
<<Up to you…but an alternating schedule (since these systems are interconnected) may provide some pH support>>
I have read the refugium has to be on alternating time intervals
<<Doesn’t have to be, but can be beneficial for the same reason just stated>>
but then again some stuff I have read recommends 24 hour lighting on the refugium.
<<This is dependent on the type macroalgae utilized (if/when utilized). Most Caulerpa species are best kept under such lighting to preclude any “sexual” events that can poison a system. But if using Chaetomorpha (my choice/recommendation) in a refugium, a “rest period” is beneficial>>
See things like this confuse me
<<Merely requires further reading/researching>>
and I do not no where to find a good reliable source until I found you. I'm willing to spend the money, invest my time and do the research but sometimes I just don't know where to look.
<<I do understand…and it “will” become easier in time>>
Re- Generators… Please fellow hobbyists: I hope no one ever has to go through the total loss of a reef. Eric is absolutely right. The investment in a generator (small in comparison) by far outweighs the cost of losing a reef system to say nothing of your time and work investment.
<<Well said>>
Calculate that into the total cost of your basic set-ups, you'll likely be glad you did. All it can take is 1/2 hour before you are into serious biological breakdown, especially within your canister filters. If in the event of a long term power outage disconnect all your canister filters and remove the hoses because you know they are gone anyway and will need to recycle, clean and be totally refreshed. Stale water in hoses pumped into your system once power is restored can easily kill a delicate tank. If push comes to shove and you can't afford much by way of a generator, get enough of a generator that you can keep your heaters running and install airstones to keep oxygen going to your live rock, and stock.
<<Really…all that is “needed” is enough power to pump water from the sump to the display, and/or to run a powerhead or two (if you don’t have a sump) along with your heater(s)>>
Small generators can usually power a compact florescent set-up but not always a halide lighting system.
<<The lighting can wait anyway>>
They really suck "generator juice". Re- the refugium/sump: I think I may be putting the cart before the horse here Eric so I need you to tell me if I am wrong. I planned on using the overflow water from the reef itself (hence the use of a multi directional spray bar to defuse the water pressure coming down from the reef) to feed water into the refugium (remind you I have the FX5 working on the reef itself).
<<Ah, okay…this is fine…though the use of the spray bar should not be necessary and may even cause unwanted restriction/trapping of particulates>>
The refugium itself would be lighted and the waterfall would go into the sump.
<<Okay>>
I have well established substrate in the sump complete with sand sifter star fish, sea cucs etc. which I planned on putting into the refugium along with some live rock. The sump would basically only contain the protein skimmer (which is a foot in diameter) pumps and anything else you recommend.
<<Ah good…best to keep the sump and refugium separate when possible…in my opinion>>
I did not plan on lighting the sump too because of its close proximity to the frag tank.
<<And not necessary or even desirable (re algae accumulation in the skimmer body/other ancillary filtration devices) in most instances>>
Oh yea, planted is definitely the freshwater equivalent of a reef, especially if you use metal halide lighting and keep delicate fish!!! The Netherlands!!!! You know planted aquariums don't you Eric?
<<Mmm, not really… That was three decades ago (Yowza!), and I’ve been totally committed to marine/reef systems for the last two now>>
They wrote the book!
<<They were plentiful there/then…and beautiful too>>
I am sorry this is so long-winded. I didn't expect to hear from you again.
<<We do respond to “all”>>
"Thanks Eric"
Cindy
<My pleasure Cindy… Eric Russell>>

R8: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!)…Internet & Ozone – 09/08/09
Hey Eric:
<<Hey Cindy>>
All info greatly appreciated and utilized.
<<Excellent>>
Yes I do need to learn to use my search engines but it has only been three weeks and I have been otherwise distracted with my mother's situation.
<<Understood>>
I didn't originally know it was made by Poly Bio Marine or we would not have been so confused.
<<I see…knowing the manufacturer does help I’ll admit>>
There are so many poly-filter products out there.
<<Indeed>>
I ordered Bob's book first thing I found your site but it took so long to come in or I would have known what you were talking about immediately as would Jim. I was running out of time before this show and needed to be organized. I never would have bothered you so much
<<Not a bother>>
had I been able to get Bob's book in a more timely fashion (it took over two weeks and I was trying to get my hands on a copy. My husband does not allow me to buy online because he doesn't trust hackers).
<<Hmm, not sure how to address this last comment… There are many reputable “etailers” with secure sites (Drs. Foster & Smith, Premium Aquatics, Petsolutions, AquaCave, to name but only a few)>>
Fish stores that cater to the marine aquarist are few and far between in this area so competitive pricing does not exist and availability of much of anything marine.....well you know.
<<Indeed I do… But fear of the Internet does really put you in a “bubble”>>
You pay dearly for anything marine (so this show is a once a year opportunity and I needed several expensive items), particularly animals and live rock. We don't even have high speed internet in this area yet.
<<Wow…your “are” rural…>>
I did read that Bob highly recommends the use of ozone injection in his book.
<<Yep… And I advocate/use it myself>>
That always scared me because of the multiple risks involved in using ozone (leakage, overdosing etc.).
<<Minimal concerns with these smallish hobby units most commonly available>>
I need to look into advancements in those systems but won't have time before the show.
<<Yes do… Ozone is a very useful adjunct to your filtration system>>
I am so glad I finally got Bob's book. It is great, most helpful in all areas, current and easy to read and understand. You pointed out a lot of things regarding refugiums Jim would not have told me about. Your terrific and Bob's book is a "must have" for us amateur hobbyists.
Cindy
<<We are pleased that you are pleased [grin]… EricR>>

R9: Green Hair Algae Problem (Ready to quit!)…Ozone & Water Prep – 09/09/09
Hey Eric:
<<Hi Cindy>>
I read "Bob's" section on ozone last night (only my husband had read it before) and went ahead and ordered an ozone injection system from the show as well after reading it myself (put my apprehensions to rest).
<<Ah good…is a beneficial addition>>
Hopefully the rest of my initial order (skimmer, membrane and pads) will be here in a day or so.
I am already feeling so much better about my reef (my husband is having heart failure over the cost however even though I had warned him that they were a "money pit" right from the start) and that I may finally have this situation foxed thanks to you and "Bob".
<<So glad to have helped>>
Mr. Fenner is right, discus and planted aquariums are very expensive indeed but at least "around here", REEF RULES IN THE COST DEPT., probably because there are so few of us that do saltwater.
<<Maybe so… (Can’t help but to keep pushing the NET on you re)>>
I'll start cooking my water for at least a week as he suggested and seeding is a great idea and will make water changes much easier on the corals.
<<Indeed… Many hobbyists don’t realize how active/reactive newly mixed saltwater is, or how irritating/stressful it can be on your tank’s inhabitants…and maybe even contributory to nuisance algae issues such as yours>>
That book (a real smart low cost investment in your reef systems) and you have been so incredibly helpful!
<<Redeeming to know>>
Do you have pics of your reef online? Must be something!
<<I did have some posted on my local reef club’s website at one time, until we had a “glitch” that wiped out the photo library…just haven’t gotten around to taking/posting more>>
Thanks,
Cindy
<<Happy to share… EricR>>

Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!?   8/24/09
Greetings to my favorite people at WWM!
<Hello to you Jamie>
Interesting observation that I like to share with you. I currently have three tanks. Their parameters are all very similar as I use the same RO water mixed with Coralife Reef Salt and I perform a 15% water change on them every week. There are only TWO differences (Okay, I'm painting with really broad strokes!) - they are the inhabitants and the presence or not of CARBON in the filtration system.
<Mmm... often there are other more subtle diff.s, but let's see...>
Tank 1: Carbon; Green Spotted Mandarin Goby, Barnacle Blenny, Eyelash Blenny, Yasha Hase Goby, Pistol Shrimp, Peppermint Shrimp, Skunk Cleaner Shrimp plus Hermit Crabs.
Tank 2: NO Carbon; Flame Angel, Bicolor Blenny, Black Percula Clown plus Hermit Crabs.
Tank 3: Carbon; Rainbow Fairy Wrasse, Flame Hawk Fish, 2 Pajama Cardinals, Lawnmower Blenny, Pink Spotted Watchman Goby plus Hermit Crabs.
Tank 1 and 3 have been infested with hair algae over the past 4 months.
Tank 2 have consistently been without hair algae or slime algae, not even a hint!
All tanks have been set up for more than one year and I do the same routine for all three tanks, feeding in the same fashion. Tank 2 is the "cleanest", absolutely no signs of hair algae and the tank has a general clean
appearance - minimal detritus on rocks and macro algae where the other two sometimes get that dirty, ash covered look and lots of stuff to blow off during my weekly water changes.
<Ahhh!>
For several weeks, I was thinking that maybe the carbon was leaking something back to the tank to encourage algae growth, but I renew them with fresh carbon every two weeks, so maybe just the presence of carbon... Then today I did an experiment during my weekly water change. I took a green hair algae and red slime algae covered water return from Tank 1 and swapped it with the coralline covered one from Tank 2. Within five hours, that return is cleared of all green hair and red slime algae! Yippi! Well, now, I'm guessing that one of the inhabitants in Tank 2 is having a feast eating this stuff, I just can't decide if it is the Flame Angel or the Bicolor Blenny.
<Could be both, either>
My bet is the Bicolor Blenny but the Flame Angel is the one showing most interest. As I'm writing this, I placed a piece of hair algae covered Zoanthid in the front...I want to watch nature in action, and so far, the
Flame Angel is the one showing interest.
Thank you, each and every one on the WWM team, for creating this site that helps all of us fish lovers to not only learn about the wonderful creatures that we share our earth with, but also encouraging sound stewardship to these wonderful creatures!
Jamie Barclay
<May, might I suggest an experiment with the carbon? Do soak some bit, a tablespoon or so, in a jar of your RO water for a day or two and test for soluble Phosphate... Some "brands" do leach this often rate-limiting noisome algae nutrient. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!?   8/24/09
Dear Bob,
Thanks for your reply. I will definitely do this carbon experiment and keep you updated!
<Thank you Jamie>
I checked my made up water parameters yesterday for phosphate (0),
<Can get "sucked up" by fast growing algae in short order>
nitrite (0), and pH (8.0) prior to using it as I thought maybe my drinking water RO system's filters need changing.
<Perhaps... the pH should definitely be lower...>
The piece of green hair algae covered Zoanthid I placed in Tank 2 is 40% "cleaner" this morning but I think that who ever is eating it is having a hard time pulling the hair algae off as the small piece of rock will move
which-ever direction.
Thank you all, again!
Cheerios!
Jamie
<Pip pip! BobF>

Re: Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!?   8/28/09
Hello Team at WWM!
<Hi there Jamie!>
Hope all is going well for you!
An update. I've soaked some charcoal in my fresh made up water for 48 hours and checked the phosphate level - it is 0.
<I see; thanks>
So, at least I know that my salt is not leaching phosphate into the tank.
<Mmm, the salt mix, synthetic actually may be a/the source here. I would test it as well>
Now, the piece of algae covered Zoanthid I placed in the tank still has green hair algae on it, it is maybe
50% gone now. Humm, this sort of throws things off a bit on my theory.
I've glued that piece of Zoanthid onto one of the largest rocks in that tank...I just hope that I didn't introduce hair algae in there!!![?]
<Some such material comes/goes in every bit of water... via spores in the air if nothing else... It's the conditions that need to be monitored, controlled>
I will keep observing my tank parameters and fish behaviors and keep you updated!
Thanks so much!
Jamie
<Thank you. BobF>

Re: Hair Algae and it's "Nemesis"?!?  8/29/2009
Greetings to Bob and members of WWM team!
I just wanted to make a clarification on "my fresh made up water" that I wrote in my last e-mail. That is R/O water mixed with my salt (Coralife) at specific gravity 1.023. I used it to see if the combination will cause the carbon to react in a way as to leak phosphate into my system. The result was a phosphate level of zero.
<I see.>
Re-reading our communications and thinking of the "other more subtle differences" that Bob had pointed out. Tank 2 has an abundance of macroalgae and Chaeto (yes, I don't have a refugium and thought that Chaeto looks interesting so I just plopped some in the display - the tiny brittle stars and copepods love it, and I love watching them) and it is also the least "complex" of the three tanks as there are only leather corals and ONE purple mushroom compared to Tank 1 and 3 have an abundance and variety of corals.
Like Bob said in the last e-mail, the "conditions that need monitored and controlled". I'm guessing that all three tanks produce an amount of phosphate, the phosphate is used - In Tanks 1 +3 predominantly by the
green hair algae, in Tank 2 by the macro algae.
When challenges like this happen in my tank/tanks, I always experience a sense of awe at how amazing nature is that it is able to balance itself over and over again. Reef keeping has taught me to appreciate all the little things on our planet.
<Ahhh~!>
And as always, I'm grateful that WetWebMedia and it's crew are here to share the joys and troubles of reef keeping with me.
Thank YOU!!!
Jamie
<And you for sharing Jamie, BobF>

Nitrate And Hair Algae Problems 8/20-/09 Hi, <Hello John> I would like to ask some advice on my constant Nitrate problem (I attached some pictures of my tank and refugiums, sorry about the picture of the tank, I took it this morning before the light turned on). <No problem.> I have a 54 gallon corner tank with a sand substrate (used to have crushed coral), live rock (about 40 or so pounds? not 100% sure), protein skimmer, 250w halide (on about 8-9 hours), soft corals (mushrooms, yellow polyps, Kenya trees, zoas, star polyps) and 5 fish (tomato clown I've had for over 12 years, pencil wrasse, black neon line goby, pixie hawk and green chromis. I had a 15 gallon high refugium underneath the tank with a sand substrate, mangroves and Chaeto where the water from the tank go into the refugium, until the water level gets too low in the tank and the return pump turns on, putting the water from the refugium back into the tank. I recently upgraded the refugium ( a few weeks ago) to 2 refugiums, a 29 gallon tank with 2 baffles where the water goes in the 29 gallon on the left side underneath an undergravel plate through a mixture of sand and refugium mud where the mangroves are planted and over another baffle where it is pumped down into the 15 gallon x-high where the Chaeto is and then the water is pumped back into the tank the same way as before. <I would not use the undergravel filter plate, can elevate nitrate levels.> My question is, I used to have a lot of trouble with high nitrates and hair algae, so I got rid of the crushed coral (which almost everyone told me can cause high nitrates) <Nonsense, crushed coral is actually aragonite.> and replaced it with "live" sand (I don't know about the "live" part, but it was the only sand I could find at the fish store) and I thought between the new sand and the water moving between the 2 refugiums my nitrates would go down and it would starve the hair algae. However, when I checked it again yesterday, it was still high. <You are not going to see changes that fast.> I even added some clams to the main tank and both refugiums to help "clean" the water. I ordered some more macro algae in the hopes I may just need some more things that will absorb the nitrates, but I don't know where it is coming from. <Coming from excess nutrients in the system somewhere.> I only feed the fish once a day and usually it is a few marine flakes or a few pellets, which always get eaten and never sit on the sand. I do 10 - 20% water changes (probably not as often as I should, usually once a month or maybe even twice a month if I'm lucky, but I do use an RO system), but I can't seem to get the nitrates to go down and also for the hair algae to go away. What am I doing wrong? Is there just not enough surface area in a corner tank? I am hoping, once I move, to get at least a 125 - 150 gallon tank, and still use the refugiums. <I'm guessing the Tomato Clown is very large and being so, a high waste producer contributing to your high nitrate levels. I did not see any mention of a protein skimmer in use, a must have for controlling nitrates. Do read here for further help with your problem. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm> Thanks. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> John

Re: Nitrate and hair algae problems 8/21/09 Hi again James, <Ahh, he's marked himself "out". BobF here> Yes, I am using a protein skimmer (I thought I put it in my original message somewhere, if not I apologize) and although it doesn't get filled up with brown/green water as much as it used to, I still have to dump it out about once a week. <A good interval> Even though my Tomato Clown can probably now join the AARP, he has never really been in a large enough tank to get his full size, so he's only about 3 inches long and is probably the biggest fish in the tank except for the goby, but he's only about 4" long, not very girthy. I forgot to mention in the first refugium the water from the tank pours through a 100 micron filter pad and a polyfilter which are sitting on top of a filter sock. My poly filter seems to be getting brown fast, although I'm not sure why since the 100 micron pad is on top of that and gets dirty fast. I don't use the undergravel filter as a filter per se, I put it in to prop up the mud, so that when the water flows under the first baffle, it's forced under and through the mud to kind of "filter" it before it comes up and goes over the right baffle. I figured the mangroves might like it. <I do agree> I just don't know where the extra nutrients are coming from (the clams have only been in there for about 2 weeks, so I suspect it'll take them a while to filter through the water). <Yes> Thanks again for your help and for the quick reply. <Will fwd. to James> John <Bob Fenner> Re: Nitrate and hair algae problems 8/21/09 Hi again James, <Ahh, he's marked himself "out". BobF here> <<Back with a vengeance.>> Yes, I am using a protein skimmer (I thought I put it in my original message somewhere, if not I apologize) and although it doesn't get filled up with brown/green water as much as it used to, I still have to dump it out about once a week. <A good interval> <<And very important to keep the neck/reaction chamber free of brown slime buildup, reduces efficiency of the skimmer very much. What brand of skimmer are you using?>> Even though my Tomato Clown can probably now join the AARP, he has never really been in a large enough tank to get his full size, so he's only about 3 inches long and is probably the biggest fish in the tank except for the goby, but he's only about 4" long, not very girthy. I forgot to mention in the first refugium the water from the tank pours through a 100 micron filter pad and a Polyfilter which are sitting on top of a filter sock. My poly filter seems to be getting brown fast, <<Indicating a high organic load. Have you checked phosphate levels in your system? You may have better results using Chemi-Pure Elite which contains a high grade carbon, ferric oxide for phosphate control, and beneficial ion exchange resins.>> although I'm not sure why since the 100 micron pad is on top of that and gets dirty fast. <<Is this pad changed/cleaned weekly?>> I don't use the undergravel filter as a filter per se, I put it in to prop up the mud, so that when the water flows under the first baffle, it's forced under and through the mud to kind of "filter" it before it comes up and goes over the right baffle. I figured the mangroves might like it. <I do agree> I just don't know where the extra nutrients are coming from (the clams have only been in there for about 2 weeks, so I suspect it'll take them a while to filter through the water). <Yes> Thanks again for your help and for the quick reply. <Will fwd. to James> <<John, do read the articles I linked you to previously. James (Salty Dog)>> John <Bob Fenner>