Micro bubbles from my protein skimmer... Chemical Algicide use...   6/30/07
Good evening, all.
<Yawnnnn! AM here now>
I have a 100 gallon, fish only tank with about 50 pounds of live rock.
<Okay>
I turned off my protein skimmer on Thursday afternoon to treat a red slime algae problem in my tank. I used ChemiClean.
<... not advised...>
I've just turned my protein skimmer back on after being unplugged for 36 hours and it is producing an exorbitant amount of micro-bubbles that are getting pushed up into the tank.
<Good... you need to remove as much of the products, by-products of using this "Algicide" as quickly as possible>
I've unplugged the skimmer to stop the micro-bubble flow for now, but I have no idea why the skimmer is causing them, or what else I can do to prevent it.
Any suggestions?
Trapped in bubbles,
Scott
<The Boyd product Scott... not a good idea... I'd do a few largish water changes... one a day over the next few days... leave the skimmer going, place some PolyFilter, Activated Carbon... and hope your system doesn't crash... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
 

I Used A Biocide On My Display, Now What?/Other General Husbandry Q’s  (chemical algicides...) – 06/28/07 Good Day Crew! <<Hello Sebastian!>> Hope you are all having a great day in your daily endeavors. <<So far so good mate>> I have a few questions that I feel silly asking, however, I am getting a little frustrated here. <<Ask away…>> I have a 90-gal reef tank recently converted to an all SPS tank, except for a Branching Hammer, a Fox Coral, and about 20 heads of Candy Cane coral all near the bottom and away of the SPS. I have been having some water quality issues lately; I tested last night and dKH 7, Calcium 410. <Not so bad…maybe a tiny bit low on the Alkalinity>> I seem to have Cyano growing towards the bottom of my tank, and areas of indirect lighting. <<May be a water flow issue>> I have metal halides and run a BB display. <<I see>> I am doing 10% water changes using DI water, however, I just purchased a RO/DI unit (5 stage) with all the trimmings to see if this helps. <<The DI alone was probably good enough…but the carbon blocks and RO membrane will certainly extend the usage of the DI media>> I have an ATO by JBJ (Auto Top Off) with a 5 ½-gal reservoir attached to the sump that pulls DI water mixed with Kalkwasser to replaced evaporated water. I have a filter sock, which is replaced every two days and washed. <<Excellent…is important to keep this cleaned>> Highly efficient Tunze 9010 skimmer removes about 100-ml of nasty gunk on a daily basis and I have begun to reduce feedings of frozen food. <<Why? Have you traced a problem to this? I am a firm believer in feeding reef systems very well…you are feeding so much more than just the fish and corals>> This morning, out of shear ignorance or lack of research I added a dose of Chemi-Clean in order to fight Cyano. <<Aye-yi-yi… Nooooooo!>> After reading through your site I am afraid I have made a mistake! <<Uh…yeah!>> Have I? <<In my opinion…yes>> I have used this before and did not experience any ill side effects, <<None that you saw/recognized as such>> however, at that time there were no SPS in my tank, only LPS and soft corals. This product is supposed to be Erythromycin free. <<The products states it does not contain Erythromycin Succinate specifically, however there are other forms of this anti-biotic…and at the least, this product is “some form” of biocide or it wouldn’t work. But don’t take my word for it, please contact the company and ask “them” what makes this product perform. I happen to be visiting with BobF at his home in SD and he says “he” would be very interested to know too!>> I have began a more rigorous and disciplined maintenance schedule and I thought I could use this Chemi-Clean once and then keep the Cyano out by better husbandry of the system. <<Mmm…symptomatic of out society of “instant gratification” I’m afraid>> Should I make some water changes tonight? <<I would…as well as adding chemical filtration to remove the medicant…and then beg hobbyist friends/an LFS for some used system water/substrate to try to kick-start your bacterial colonies>> Should I let it be? <<I wouldn’t>> Also, I am having trouble keeping the level of water in my sump and my display balanced. <<…?>> It seems when I finally find the sweet spot and a balance, water will start refilling my sump and instead of stopping at my sump, the water goes to my display, increasing the level there and causing my ATO to refill my sump...make sense? <<Hmm…processing…>> I end up with an empty water reservoir and very high water level on display tank. <<Hard to say without a visual… But either your plumbing is not “tuned” correctly, or your return pump is pushing water to the display faster than it can drain to the sump>> I have a level controller that shuts off water on reservoir to prevent a flood but I do not want to dose so much DI water with Kalk unless I need to. <<Agreed>> Any ideas? <<Perhaps you need to start with “more” water in the sump…though I really need to know more about your system set-up. At the least… When the system is running/the sump water level is at “working height” and the pump is turned off…is the remaining space in the sump able to hold all the transient water volume? If the answer is “yes” then your plumbing is at least “balanced” between the two vessels…though it sounds as if the overflows in your display may be a bit higher than you want. If you can provide some more/better feedback on the system I can hopefully give you a better answer>> I apologize to for so many questions, I know you all go above and beyond to help OCD reef keepers like myself. <<Ha! No worries>> My fish load consists of a Purple Tang, have had him for 5 years, previously in a 55-gal (sorry), <<Mmm…>> an Ocellaris Clown, a Pajama Cardinal, and a Six-line Wrasse. <<Ugh…nasty little buggers this last>> I have 2 Peppermint Shrimp, a Coral Banded Shrimp, a little cream-colored Acro Crab that jumps from Acro to Acro and a wide array of snails from all kinds. I have started to reduce my photoperiod to about 2-3 hours a day on the halides, while the new SPS corals acclimate, I intend to increase to 7 hours a day in a couple weeks. Is this wise? <<Better to “filter” the light with some screening material while keeping the full photoperiod (I recommend 10-12 hours by the way…closer to a true “Tropical” photoperiod) in my opinion…but what you have started should be fine>> The lighting fixture is an Aqualight Pro 2x150 HQI DE, 2x96 actinic. I leave the actinic tubes on for 12 hours and have LED nightlights for about 4 hours at night. Should I keep a little powerhead on the 5 ½-gal reservoir to keep the water moving and the Kalk mixed? <<Or perhaps on a timer…will reduce the amount of solid material that gets to the sump. Or better yet, look in to using a Kalkwasser reactor…maybe even a DIY>> Should I aerate the water I use for water changes before I add salt to it? <<I would/do…helps drive out excess CO2…and continue to aerate/provide water movement for several more days to allow all the chemical processes to complete>> Should I add Seachem's Reef Builder to water in water changes to help with Alk? <<If testing shows this needs boosting, yes>> If I would have known there was so much to know in keeping a great reef tank I would have waited a few more years and joined and reefer's monastery. <<Just keep researching/reading my friend>> Sorry again for all the questions. Sebastian Nunez <<We’re happy to share. Eric Russell>> Re: I Used A Biocide On My Display, Now What?/Other General Husbandry Q’s –  6/29/07 06/29/07 Good morning again crew! Happy Friday to you all! <<Greetings again Sebastian!>> Thank you very much Eric for your thorough response to my previous email. <<Quite welcome>> After getting home last night I mixed 20-gal of DI water and added salt and plan to perform a 20% water change tonight. <<Don’t forget some chemical filtration (carbon/Poly-Filter)>> I have turned on my skimmer and it was drawing a white powder gunk into it, I will throw away that Chemi-Clean and call Boyd Enterprises to find out what the ingredients are and let you guys know. <<We look forward to your feedback>> To make matters worse, last night my AC went out on my house and temp in the house is 79degrees, the tank's digital temp is reading 82 degrees at 8:00AM, I switched off the timer so the halides will not come on, opened the cabinet doors in the sump, and turned on the ceiling fan on high...they are coming over today to repair will it be ok? <<I think so yes…adding a small fan to blow across the water’s surface will also provide some evaporative cooling>> I live in Arkansas, gets toasty this time of year. <<Indeed…muggy too!>> I asked my wife to call me when she gets home at 1:00PM and tell temp if it is too warm will leave work and float some container w/ice. <<Can be a useful strategy>> Regarding my overflow situation, I have a perfecto "RR" (right) but the overflows are both 1". <<Mmm, yes…maybe some day (wishful thinking) the manufacturer will “get a clue” and up-size or at least increase the number of these throughputs>> I have a 1" PVC pipe that drains straight down to my sump; at the end I have a 45-degree elbow to avoid backpressure from bubbles. I actually have to close the valve partially since water actually drains faster into the sump than the pump can return. <<This shouldn’t be an issue…and is actually a desirable condition. And “valves” on drain lines are just bad news in my opinion…too much likelihood for an obstruction. Maybe the reason the water level in your display was running “high” as you mentioned in your first query>> I have an Eheim 1262 return pump, which is set up partially with PVC piping and partially with 1" vinyl hosing. <<A very nice pump…and obviously working against enough head-pressure to not “overwhelm” that 1” return line>> I have a PVC pipe running from the tank with another 45-degree elbow that attaches to a ball-valve and then to the pump. <<Always good to plumb a valve on the output side of the pump for maintenance/to temper flow if need…though I much prefer “gate-valves” as opposed to bal-valves for this application due to their much greater “finesse” for adjustments>> I have a piece of 1 1/4" hose that I am contemplating using to replace the 1", would this help? <<Help what, water flow? I doubt it…in this particular instance>> Also, the sump can handle all the transient water when I shut off the pump, I read this on your site before to avoid a flood in case of power failure. <<Ahh…excellent>> For water movement I have 2 Koralia #4 pumps pointed at each other, in addition to the return nozzles from the sump. <<Very good>> I have an additional 2 Koralia #3 pumps that are usually on the bottom blowing against each other to move detritus around and kill dead spots? <<More good news!>> However, there was a recall and I have been without the bottom pumps for a couple weeks...could this be the culprit?? <<The reduced flow/accumulation of detritus could indeed be a factor in the appearance of the Cyanobacteria>> I have a added a very deep aragonite sand bed to assist on nitrate processing as well, this is a remote DSB in the sump. <<A very worthwhile addition>> Thanks again for all your advice and have a great time visiting SD. <<Always welcome…and yes, having a great time (if my liver holds out! [grin])…off to visit Jason Kim at his AquaC facility later today…Bob and I up to LA next week to tour some of the large marine fish/coral distribution facilities…and to makes things even better, the weather here is BEAUTIFUL!>> You guys make even the worse situations better with your valuable advice. <<Thank you for stating such, is very nice to hear…>> Sebastian Nunez <<Regards, Eric Russell>> R2: I Used A Biocide On My Display, Now What?/Other General Husbandry Q’s –  7/2/07 07/02/07 Good morning Crew (again)! <<Cheers Sebastian!…again!>> Eric if you are there you are a lifesaver! <<Woo-hoo! Is redeeming to hear mate>> Once again your invaluable advice has saved a few corals and my dignity before my wife. <<Mmm, BOTH important issues indeed>> I thought I would give you an update regarding my recent issues with my reef tank. <<Cool>> On Friday I had my wife float Ziploc bags with ice until the AC was repaired and was able to keep tank temperature at or below 83 degrees. <<Very good, we’ll make a hobbyist of her yet! [grin]. My own wife is back home struggling to maintain my rather large reef system while I am here at Bob’s place. She is doing a fine job but HATES it (says I can never travel again. [big-grin])>> It is currently at 79 during the night and 80 during the day. <<Excellent>> I did 20% water change, replaced new carbon and ran the skimmer as you advised and everything is all right. <<Do keep an eye on things and don’t let up on maintenance…any deleterious effects may not manifest immediately…but still, very good to hear>> I believe I have removed all the Chemi-Clean from my system since my skimmer reflected its presence. <<I would change the carbon out daily for a couple more days>> At first the skimmer filled up with white foam and water and now it has resumed its normal operation. All my corals look fantastic and polyp extension is good. No living things were harmed! <<Mmm no, they probably were (bacterial/microbial colonies at the least), but you have mitigated the damage and we’ll keep our fingers crossed that all will recover fine>> I have decided per your advice to run halides 10-hours a day once the corals are acclimated. <<Ah good…much better/more natural for all those “tropical” photosynthetic organisms in your tank>> I received my 2 Koralia #3 pumps back from being repaired and have replaced them on the bottom of my tank and the Cyano seems to be peeling off and going into my filter sock. <<Super!>> Regarding the plumbing issue I mention, I have discovered the culprit! The 100-micron filter sock, when initially added filters water through at a fast rate, this however, slowly begins to back-up when the filter sock begins to become clogged with detritus and such. <<Aha…>> In turn, this results in more water being pushed up than is draining until I replace with a clean filter sock. ha ha!! <<Sounds like a “daily” chore is about to be added to your maintenance routine>> So, do you think I could just run a filter sock part of the time, to remove detritus? <<Certainly>> Instead of all the time to avoid this issue? <<I actually choose NOT to use such devices on my reef system…but rather to employ vigorous high-volume water movement within the display to keep the detritus in suspension, thus providing more as well as more “natural” feeding opportunities to my corals and other “suspension” feeders>> I have also started feeding regularly again as you suggested instead of starving my tank. <<This is soooooo much better than the alternative my friend. You may have to deal with the occasional nuisance algae outbreak (actually, small patches that don’t threaten to overtake sessile invertebrates are quite “natural” and will foster many beneficial organisms), but your livestock will display much better vigor/health if kept properly and sufficiently fed. I feed my tank very generously, in fact my wife states that my fishes, corals, et al eat better than WE do>> I feed twice a day with Marine Cuisine (frozen) and with Cyclop-Eeze flakes. <<A good start, but this diet needs more variety still yet. Expand the frozen food menu with Mysis shrimp, Ocean Plankton, and Glass Worms (yep, Mosquito Larvae…very palatable and nutritious), and maybe some Reef Plankton and/or Cyclops for your corals. For dry foods the New Life Spectrum pelleted foods are “beyond” fantastic…truly! You might also want to look at Polyp Lab Reef-Roids. Also consider a soak once or twice a week in a vitamin supplement like Selcon or Boyd’s Vita-Chem>> I have raised Alk to 8dkh. <<Okay>> Will continue 10% water changes <<Okay>> Let me know how all this sounds and thanks a million once again for taking the time to help me. <<Sounds like you are getting back on track my friend…and it has been my pleasure to assist>> PS I have yet to hear from Boyd Enterprises regarding ingredients in Chemi-Clean Sebastian Nunez <<I did notice the website is “unavailable.” Perhaps it is down for maintenance and they will get back to you when all is done. Eric Russell>> Alk, Mg, Ca, Low Calcium/Alkalinity...Supply Not Meeting Demand? – 08/16/07 Hello everyone! <<Hiya Sebastian!>> Hope you are having a good "hump" day! <<Is Thursday now, but yes...was fine>> Let me begin by thanking you once again for your dedication and support of this hobby. <<We’re happy to be here>> Eric? <<Tis I my friend>> I finally received a reply from Boyd Enterprises regarding ChemiClean, <<Excellent>> they did inform me the active ingredient is "another" type of antibiotic. <<Yes>> So you were right. <<Somebody write that down...>> However, they declined to say which kind exactly. <<This seems silly (or maybe just underhanded?) to me...aside from the fact this is still something you don’t want to administer to your display tank...why would consumers/hobbyists want to use a product that doesn’t (or won’t!) say what it is/is comprised of?>> On a different note, I have managed to run a successful reef as of late, my weekly 10% water changes have gotten rid of all the Cyano and all my SPS frags are developing a base and starting to grow. <<Very good to know>> I have been struggling with my Calcium and dKH however, I did some tests last night that showed dKH at 7 and Ca at 320. <<Not bad really...though the Calcium could use a bit of a boost by a few tens of ppm>> I have been adding 2-part (Kent) as well as topping off with Kalkwasser and I seem to have trouble keeping high levels. <<Do check your Magnesium readings>> Would this be an Mg issue? <<Possibly>> I purchased some MgCl from Kent and also a test kit. <<Very good...and for small/infrequent adjustments simple Epsom Salts will do just as well as any of the proprietary hobby products>> On the other hand, am I just not dosing enough? <<Considering both your Alkalinity and Calcium are at the low end of the spectrum this may very well be the issue. Try boosting the amounts a bit and see>> I have about 12 Acros, 3 more SPS, hammer, candy cane etc, is my Ca consumption just high? <<I don’t remember for sure but wasn’t isn’t this tank less than 100-gallons...this may very well be true then>> Coupled with the fact that my tank runs bare bottom? <<Mmm, yes...lack of contribution of any Earth elements re>> Any help is appreciated. Sebastian Nunez <<Try increasing the “two-part” dosage...and/or try a better/different brand (E.S.V., Two Little Fishies, or even the new AquaC product). Cheers, Eric Russell>>

 

Green algae - what to do ? Cyano, Algicide disuse... reading    5/7/07 Sorry "crew" - attached are smaller pics (in size and resolution).  Didn't know you couldn't accept pics from a camera. <Is our cheesy mailserver... we only have ten megs of space... and have real trouble even as we approach this...> Thanks in advance for looking! ---Pete > Hi, Your picture is extremely large & overloading our bandwidth. Please return this letter with a much smaller picture. > Thanks, Jeni/Pufferpunk > Hi Folks! > I'm back to ask some questions with the addition of some pics for your review. > First - my set up. 75 gal glass tank (currently no coral but would like to introduce them at some point - goal is a healthy and thriving reef). DI water only. Remora Pro skimmer w/ Mag 3. Magnum 350 canister with one pouch of Chemi pure elite and 2 small pouches of Algone. <Not smart: http://www.algone.com/> One PowerSweep 228 (right side of tank) one maxi-jet 1200 with FLO rotating deflector. Lighting is 12 hours 4 x 54 w Actinic (9am - 9 pm), 4 x 54 w 10K (11am - 4 pm), 4 moonlight LEDs from 9pm to 9am. 80 lbs of live sand and 80 lbs of live rock. 1 tomato clown, 1 yellow-tail blue damsel, 1 black long-spined urchin, a variety of Cerith, Nassarius, and Tongan snails, a few red-legged hermits, and 3 emerald crabs. > Tank age is approximately 4 months. Water changes of 5 gals twice a week with regular top-off as required. Water parameters are as follows (taken last Sunday) Ph 8.4, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 15, Salinity 35, Gravity 1.026, PO3-4 0, CA2 380, Alkalinity 3.5. > I've recently gone through a diatom bloom and then about one week after I started to notice green dots forming on the tank walls. <Yes...> I figured this was a good thing (and maybe even a good algae) so I left it. I remembered reading somewhere that I could remove it from the sides and front of the tank and leave it on the back wall and that it was "good" for the environmental conditions of the tank. So, I left it alone. I've been scraping the sides and front but the back is being over-taken and now it's appearing on my LR. > As you can see from the pics there are green dots with hairs, and the rest seems to be a neon green slime. > My questions are: Is this harmful ? <Can be, yes> Should it be removed? <Should be "fought..."> If so, what's the best method ? <This is very likely a BGA...> I'm assuming that this is part of the normal algal succession and have been trying to find out the specifics of the "succession" but have not found anything on your site that details the different stages - only references to it. What are the stages? What can one expect during each stage? What should one do (if anything) during each stage to maintain a healthy system? <All posted...> > Many thinks in advance for your expert opinions and direction. > --Pete <Please start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm Subsequently on to the linked files above where you lead yourself... many approaches to consider... as you seem aware... of natural courses of events... I would not try "selectively" poisoning this material... Bob Fenner>

Re: Green algae - what to do?    5/7/07 Thanks Bob for your response.  I'm perplexed by one comment in regards to Algone - your mentioned "Not Smart" and then pointed to their home page. I'm just not seeing it - can you elaborate as to why that's not smart ? <Sorry for the confusion. Am referring to my general statements re the use of such materials (chemical algicides) and asking that you and interested browsers read their site for balance...> I've been using it since day 1 in the tank as "maintenance" - per their documentation.  I've also called them and they mentioned that there was no ill-effect with using it with Chemi-pure.   <Am not a fan... but do like, have used thousands of units of the Boyd product. Better by far for all concerned to seek to understand, arrange and manipulate and prevent such growth/s by nutrient limitation, competition, predatory... means. Bob Fenner> Please explain as I need to understand what the issue here is. Much thanks. --Pete <Again, sorry for the lack of clarity here... and elsewhere!>

Algae Magic 1/4/07
Anyone had any experience with this product from Marc Weiss?
Thanks
Craig Smith
<None directly, but after reading their site there are better ways to go about this.  Water changes and feeding less are more effective.>
<Chris>

Re: I think one of the tankmates is chewing the tail on my Foxface;   8/4/06
Thank you as always Bob.
<Welcome... and oh, am going to be in NJ on the 24 on... to visit mum in law for her bday, and give a pitch at the NJ Reef Club... might meet you>
I am still looking but I can never seem to find which fish is at fault in there. I even peek in there discreetly at night, morning and evening
so they 'shouldn't' know I am looking but nothing so far. I still suspect the little tiger as she picks at everything.
Oh, the Powder Blue tang ended badly in spite of my best efforts.
<Par for this species... trials in captive circumstances>
I left him with the LFS and they had power outage from a storm and lost all their PBTs except one... unfortunately the one wasn't mine. I really did want to find him a nice big home. This was an all around tragedy as they had some gorgeous tanks that were wiped out. What would they have done without insurance coverage?!? OUCH! Yes, everyone would benefit from a UPS,
<These really do work...>
or backup generator if possible, to avert some of the smaller scale power disasters. A UPS to run either an air pump and stone or a
power-head with air running from a line is a small investment to protect our watery friends...IMHO.
<I concur>
On another note, I have a product called Chemi Clean that took care of the majority of the BGA/Cyano Bacteria problem. I may need to run another treatment as I quite an infestation in spite of my constant water changes and vacuuming/removing the red slime. I finally caved and used this stuff again and thus far the Condylactis and Peppermint Shrimp are doing well.
<You've been fortunate...>
Following the instructions with a 20% water change after 24 hours and having removed the carbon it seems to have really put a
significant dent on the colonies of red yuck. I used cheesecloth to manually remove as much of the stringy material as possible. It also
seems that the power-head, pump and protein skimmer all run better.
<Also to be expected...>
I imagine this product helped clear the film of red slime from the impellers. Disassembly found them cleaner than on my normal routine
maintenance.
<Mmm, and just overall whacked the BGA so it couldn't continue to modify the environment to its ends>
Further detail: the slime problems in the tank seem generally due to temperature fluctuations. Being 24 gallons it has been hard to keep the temperature stable with the sunlight exposure in that spot and from the ambient heat of summer. Another possibility is that the filters from the RO system needed to be changed sooner than they were. I really have come to dislike small tanks even if only for quarantine or backup and far more so the 'nanocube' all in one versions. A better solution is a tank with similar dimensions that has similar components so exchanging parts during inevitable breakdowns or emergencies is easier; lighting and etc.
After all we need similar lighting needs for our corals in both QT and in the main display. Nanocubes seem like a great upfront solution at a reasonable expense until you have to replace parts or have to try and get components to fit therein.  
<Agreed>
Finally, the Remora Protein Skimmer is fantastic! This was by far the best money spent on the tank thus far. Thank you so very much for the suggestion. It is so easy to use, adjust and works so very well.
Sincerely,
James Zimmer
Garfield, NJ     
<Hope to see you soon. BobF>

BGA Control,  Slime remover and Anemone   8/4/06
Dear Bob,
<James with you today.>
I had a red slime algae problem for a while and used the product Slime Remover (comes on a rectangular blue box). Worked perfectly and although I know  
its not a solution it helped me save a lot of tank life due to it's abundance. I  have started a rigid bi/weekly cleaning and water change to try to reduce  
nitrates and  switched to r/o water for minimal phosphates as well as feeding less in concern that I am over feeding.
My main concern is my anemone. I have a Bubble Tip Anemone and I am hoping that the slime remover is not killing the symbiotic algae it needs to survive.  
DO you know if this is a general problem.
<Anemones are difficult enough to keep without tainting the water quality with such products as Slime Remover.  Depending on the wattage of your light
fixture, you may not have enough light for the anemone to carry out photosynthesis.>
Also I have notice he has shrunk a little since I have gotten him and doesn't open up as much, however he does have  a great appetite and I feed him weekly with silversides.
<Although these products are supposedly safe with invertebrates, most contain erythromycin which kills bacteria (good or bad) and fungal diseases.  The product
works well in this regard since the slime algae is actually a bacteria (Cyanobacteria).
I would look at this link, and related links above, for controlling the problem. I, personally, would not use such products for BGA control.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm>
I have a 48" power compact light with actinic bulbs that run approx 14 hrs  a day, salinity is 1.24, nitrates are minimal, have a 12 gallon mud sump with  
mangroves, 55 gallon tank.
Best regards,
<And to you.  James (Salty Dog)>
Jason

Algaecide and Corals, a Bad Combination 7/16/06
Hello all,
<Hi>
I'm having some problems with my green star polyps.
<Lets see if we can help.>
I got them about a month ago, and they were THRIVING.  Marked difference since their addition to my tank.  I also have some yellow polyps, and green button polyps.
I have had a minor problem with algae, so I tried adding some Algone to my tank, in addition to some de nitrate from SeaChem.
<There is your problem.>
The day after adding the two, my green button polyps didn’t look as 'happy', and my green star polyps had not come out.  (I also removed my carbon, as per Algone directions).   I also added some Fluval prefilter  (if that helps). <Replace the carbon ASAP.> I waited 3 days, still no green star polyps (4-5 extend, but the other 300 stay in).  Thinking the Algone may be the problem, I removed it, and re-instated my carbon, leaving the de nitrate in.
<Remove all added chemicals ASAP.>
Its been 2 days since my removal of the Algone, the green star polyps have still not returned (green buttons back to normal, looking great).  In addition, the purple mat is looking worse every day, what can I do!
<Lots of water changes, run lots of carbon and get some PolyFilters if possible.>
Nothing else was altered (pH, salinity), and they were thriving until I added the Algone, so I’m convinced something other than water quality is involved (all specs good).
<Yes, toxic chemicals.>
Thanks as always,
Whit
<Anytime>
<Chris>

Re: Algaecide and Corals, a Bad Combination Part II 7/18/06
Sorry, I am a bit confused- the Algone comes in a pouch, it was removed. <But it is probably still in the water, need to get it out of the environment.>
The de nitrate is granular like carbon.  Do you think the de nitrate could be the problem, or do you think its the Algone?
<Most likely the Algone, but I would remove the Denitrate as well.  If nitrates are an ongoing problem you need to find the source and set up water changes.>
Thanks,
Whit
<Anytime>
<Chris>

Cyano problems and problematic stars 6/14/06
Dear Crew
<Hi>
I'm having a pretty big problem with Cyanobacteria.  My phosphates are high, so I'm currently using PhosGuard to try to bring it down.  <Check for the source as well, better to never have it in the tank than try to remove it later.>  Other than phosphates, ammonia and nitrites were 0, nitrates were 15, and ph was 8.0. <PH is a little low, but not to bad.>  A marine biologist at a local fish store said to put a dose of erythromycin in the tank to kill the Cyano and then to vacuum it out along with a water change.  She also told me to put snails and a sand sifter starfish in the tank to eat the organics and detritus in the substrate, and to help aerate it.  Unfortunately, I woke up the next day to find all of the snails and the starfish dead.  This brings me to my first question: Are there any flaws in my plan of attack against this Cyano?  <Oh yeah.  Erythromycin, along with killing the Cyano, will also kill most of your biological filtration, leading to a whole bunch of problems.>  I don't want to do anything harmful to my fish or not do enough so that it comes back.  <Will come back as long as it has a food source and PO4 as fertilizer.>
I also want to know, what does a starfish look like when it is dead?  I heard they get soft and jelly-like.  <Sometimes> My starfish definitely is not soft.  It is quite hard actually.  I believe it is dead because it did not move once since I purchased it last night.  This morning, when I lifted it up to see if there was any movement from its structures underneath, I noticed a lime green/yellow on the sand where it was laying. <Not good.> The starfish did not bury itself at all or move to a new location.  Even though it is not soft, is my starfish dead? <Could be, if it has not moved at all and you see no tube feet moving, likely dead.>
Thank you,
Mike
<Find the source of the phosphates and manually remove as much Cyano as you can.  With time/effort can be overcome.  Stay away from quick fixes like antibiotic, nothing good every happens fast in aquariums.  Also few creatures consume Cyano so don't overdo it snails and other cleaner.>
<Chris>

- Seahorses and ChemiClean -    6/14/06
Hi
<Hello.>
I had a problem with red algae in my tank so I put ChemiClean in my seahorse tank.  The only problem is that I didn't notice that there was an enclosed teaspoon so instead I used a regular teaspoon to measure the ChemiClean out and dump it into my tank.  I overdosed on the ChemiClean a lot.  One seahorse died and now the second seahorse is swimming upside down and has bumps on her tail.  I was wondering if there was anything I could do to help the seahorse survive.  
Thank you
Nicole
<Nicole, I would perform a couple of large (50%) water changes a couple of days apart. Hope that helps. Cheers, J -- >

Algae Control  5/31/06
Hello,  <Hi Brian>
It seems after a few power outages which lasted much longer than I'd like I've got an algal bloom. The past week I've done a series of several water changes to correct any possible nitrate, nitrite (and so forth) problems and it's still horrible. The pet store recommended Maracyn. Will this be very affective/hurt inverts? I'm worrying about a crocea clam, torch coral, brain coral, anemone, and zoos etc. .  <Brian, this product is known to work for Cyano but will do little for algae.  I would not use this product with sensitive inverts
in the tank that depend on photosynthesis to survive.  Do read here and related links above for help with algae control.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm  James (Salty Dog)>
Brian

Ammonia Spike in Established 55G Tank. Mis-stocked, Algicide et al. chemically poisoned, non-cycling system    5/24/06
Hey Crew,
<Jeremy>
Very recently my tank's ammonia levels seem to be going off the charts.
<Not good>
My tank has been running for about a year and my Ammonia and Nitrates have never been high.  I have about 60-70lbs of LR and LS each.
Recently I added one of those dual BioWheel filter systems (rated to 75 gallon) along with my BakPak skimmer to help out because the skimmer has never really been that great...
<Mmm... why? Brand? Application? Mystery?>
  My tank inhabitants are a pair of Percula Clowns (1 - 2.5" and 1 - 1.25"), a 3-4" Blue Regal Tang and a 3" juv. Imperator Angel.  I know this tank is small for the tang and angel but I am about to upgrade to a 130 gallon system that a friend no longer wants.  Those 4 fishes in a 55 shouldn't be considered overcrowding especially with the tang and angel being so small/young.  Or is it?
<Is... way too crowded... psychologically and appears physiologically>
Last week I saw some Cyano growth on the LR.  I did a massive water change, and a few small ones as well as up the circulation to get rid of any dead spots.  I added a powerhead to shoot water through the center of the tank.  Other than the fishes taking turns to play in the current, I don't see any changes.  I usually don't feed too much either to keep the wastes down.  I added some "Red Slime Removal" powder
<A poor idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm>
and I saw a noticeable reduction in the Cyano.
<Just recycled... toxic>
I am still not sure that I did the right thing adding that directly into the tank.  Now, it is all back
<Yep>
and my ammonia levels have gone through the roof.
<Ditto>
I have been checking my ammonia levels daily and it continues to look worse.  A level of 0 should show the color in the test tube to be a whitish yellow. Yesterday it was close to a teal color.  Yes, teal color.  I use the API Master Kit that everyone carries in their store.
My fishes show little to no signs of stress, (if anything they look as healthy as can be, and eat like a pack of starving wolves) but I don't like the idea of them swimming in (supposedly) nasty water.  Also I used AmmoLock
<Not a good idea either...>
for the first time and the label said the tests might show an increase of traceable ammonia levels but in a non toxic form that isn't distinguished by the tests.  Did something all of a sudden go terribly wrong or is it the AmmoLock?
<Can't tell from here...>
I usually use StressCoat and Kent Ammonia Detox as tap conditioner.  I use Oceanic Salt.
<I would look for another salt brand. See WWM re>
  Maybe my tap water is the problem.  
<That too?>
Do I need to get my QT fired up and throw them in there until this is resolved or is this something fixable in the near future?
<... see WWM re Ammonia, Cycling... I would not feed these animals if ammonia is approaching 0.5 ppm>
The 130 gallon won't be available for a few months so that isn't an option at this time.  I added some Ammonia Detox, but I know that is that like putting on a band-aid and not solving the problem.  Have you heard of Ammonia levels going from around 0 to ???
<Oh yes>
(whatever my tests are showing) in a week's time?  I just don't see how this is happening.
Would adding a pack of Nitrifying bacteria help?
<Possibly... see... re>
I saw in the FAQ's that they may have died out and need to grow back.
<Yes! The "powder"... likely bumped a bunch off, produced a physiological check>
Oh yeah, Ph is around 8.2, Nitrites are 0 and spg is 1.024.  The last time I checked Nitrate was about 2 weeks ago and it read 20.
Thanks for all of your help,
Jeremy
<Read on my friend... no more chemicals, please. Bob Fenner>

SW, killed fishes with Algicide, now continuing troubles  - 03/22/06
I e-mailed you guys about 4-5 weeks go my 75 gal tank  crashed. first I had a
huge out break of red slime so I used medicine which I  find out now was not
the correct thing to do,
<... correct>
then a few days later I start  losing fish within hours of each other, ok so now all my fish are dead so I  start doing water
changes first 15 % then 25% after a week I test with a  fish and dying again in the
same manner (sinking to the bottom then just dying  within hours) I decide to
go for it and just do a 75% water change I mean really  what can I lose?  Oh
and my corals were not doing well either.  then I  e-mailed you and you tell
me to wait it out for several weeks - Ok long story -  its been 4 weeks and I
put another damsel in the tank BAM after about an hour he  is on the bottom of
the tank and dies before morning.  We have check the  tank for electric
current nothing, we have used poly filters, and ChemiPure,  they don't really change
any color except a yellowish tint.  The water is  tested for the normal stuff
and is well within all ranges.  I have had a  saltwater tank for 4 yrs and
never had this problem I just don't know what else  to look for?  I have Bob's
book and cant seem to find anything in there  that might be the problem either
ANY IDEAS!  PLEASE
Thanks
Shelly
<Really just more time going by, water changes and chemical filtrant use. Your system will "cycle" into other organisms in time... could be sped up a bit with the addition of a few pounds of new live rock... Bob Fenner>

Chemically Treated My Cyanobacteria...Now In Big Trouble - 02/26/06
Bob,
<<EricR here this morning.>>
I have had my 75 gal tank set up for 3 years now.  I have  a wet/dry with a protein Skimmer, and I use Chemi-Pure regularly.  About 6  weeks ago I started to have a red slime out break along with green hair algae, and this black slime it was like a blanket on the LR (which smelled).  I  went to my local store and they sold me red slime remover, which after treatment I changed the water 2 times (20% changes) I also removed the black slime with my  hands (coming off in very large sheets).  Ok so then my fish start dying.  Within 2 days all fish are dead sinking to bottom of tank with labored  breathing ( 4 damsels, 1 goby, 1 per. clown and a blenny.)  I do water  changes to no avail.  I notice that my Mushrooms, and other corals are not doing well they have tighten up or not opened or are limp.  So I continue to do water changes ranging from 20-50% (I figured there's nothing to lose  now).  I also put in Chemi-Pure and a Poly-Filter.  I wait a few days and try some test damsels and within 6 hours there dead.  When this all started my water was tested and everything was great all within very good levels.  Or  so the store told me.  That day I had bought two sand sifter gobies and the next morning they were belly up in the tank.  I did the last water change at 75% 3 days ago and now I am at wits end.  Any Ideas?
<<Mmm, yes...I think you wiped out your bio-filter when you chemically treated your tank to kill the Cyanobacteria.  In addition to eliminating your tank's ability to process nitrogenous wastes, you also released toxic substances from the slime algae...I'm not surprised to hear things are getting worse.  And keep in mind concerning use of these chemicals for algae control...even had it not led to these problems, the algae would have been back in days to weeks as you are not addressing the cause/source of the algae.>>
There are currently no fish in tank and my corals and inverts are not happy at best.   By the way we have had no sprays or air fresheners or air borne things in the  home.  I use the same buckets that I have always used for water changes.
<<I would stop adding fish and stop doing water changes (for now) and let the tank cycle (this may take a while).  You also need to relocate your corals and inverts while this happens.  EricR>>
Thank you

Chemically Treated My Cyanobacteria...Now In Big Trouble II - 03/07/06
Hello again,
<<Hello Shelly>>
I'm sorry but I see your response about what might have happen  but I see no fix to the problem and you also mention that I still would have had the slime algae back within a few weeks how or what do I do to control that.
<<Mmm, thought I made mention about removing the remaining livestock and letting the tank "cycle" again.>>
I have since bought your book <<Bob's book>> however, I am waiting on the mail lady to bring it.  Please if you have the time can you send me some helpful thing I may do for my tank?
<<Happy to...go here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm) and start reading up on the causes/preventions for Cyanobacteria.  Do be sure to follow the indices in blue at the top of the page...much more info available to you than I can pass here.
Thanks
Shelly
<<Regards, EricR>>

Tank die off... actually kill-off... antibiotic "treatment" of algae 7/31/05
This morning I woke up to an almost complete tank die off. The only survivors were a Fire Shrimp, and hermit crabs. I lost several soft corals,
two stony corals, and all 9 fish.
<No fun>
I did a 10% water change yesterday to which I added Erythromycin Thiocyanate.
<... trouble...>
I have been getting a lot of red algae growth on my glass for the past month, and last week some hair algae cropped up.
<You killed off your livestock... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm>
  A couple years ago I had a serious hair algae problem, and I wanted to stop it before it got worse. Did the Erythromycin Thiocyanate cause the die off?   
<Yes>
I also have very high calcium and alkalinity levels. Calcium is around 540 meg/L, and Alkalinity is 160 meg/L.
<...?>
I have not added any calcium supplements or buffers to the tank in over a year, and I only use RO water for water changes.
<What salt mix? Please read on WWM re various brands...>
I tested all other water quality parameters, and they are all very good.
<... what is "good"? Subjective evaluations are of no use to us>
Any ideas?
<All sorts>
Chris B.
<Read. Bob Fenner>

Ammonia Spike in Established 55G Tank. Mis-stocked, Algicide et al. chemically poisoned, non-cycling system    5/24/06
Hey Crew,
<Jeremy>
Very recently my tank's ammonia levels seem to be going off the charts.
<Not good>
My tank has been running for about a year and my Ammonia and Nitrates have never been high.  I have about 60-70lbs of LR and LS each.
Recently I added one of those dual BioWheel filter systems (rated to 75 gallon) along with my BakPak skimmer to help out because the skimmer has never really been that great...
<Mmm... why? Brand? Application? Mystery?>
  My tank inhabitants are a pair of Percula Clowns (1 - 2.5" and 1 - 1.25"), a 3-4" Blue Regal Tang and a 3" juv. Imperator Angel.  I know this tank is small for the tang and angel but I am about to upgrade to a 130 gallon system that a friend no longer wants.  Those 4 fishes in a 55 shouldn't be considered overcrowding especially with the tang and angel being so small/young.  Or is it?
<Is... way too crowded... psychologically and appears physiologically>
Last week I saw some Cyano growth on the LR.  I did a massive water change, and a few small ones as well as up the circulation to get rid of any dead spots.  I added a powerhead to shoot water through the center of the tank.  Other than the fishes taking turns to play in the current, I don't see any changes.  I usually don't feed too much either to keep the wastes down.  I added some "Red Slime Removal" powder
<A poor idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm>
and I saw a noticeable reduction in the Cyano.
<Just recycled... toxic>
I am still not sure that I did the right thing adding that directly into the tank.  Now, it is all back
<Yep>
and my ammonia levels have gone through the roof.
<Ditto>
I have been checking my ammonia levels daily and it continues to look worse.  A level of 0 should show the color in the test tube to be a whitish yellow. Yesterday it was close to a teal color.  Yes, teal color.  I use the API Master Kit that everyone carries in their store.
My fishes show little to no signs of stress, (if anything they look as healthy as can be, and eat like a pack of starving wolves) but I don't like the idea of them swimming in (supposedly) nasty water.  Also I used AmmoLock
<Not a good idea either...>
for the first time and the label said the tests might show an increase of traceable ammonia levels but in a non toxic form that isn't distinguished by the tests.  Did something all of a sudden go terribly wrong or is it the AmmoLock?
<Can't tell from here...>
I usually use StressCoat and Kent Ammonia Detox as tap conditioner.  I use Oceanic Salt.
<I would look for another salt brand. See WWM re>
  Maybe my tap water is the problem.  
<That too?>
Do I need to get my QT fired up and throw them in there until this is resolved or is this something fixable in the near future?
<... see WWM re Ammonia, Cycling... I would not feed these animals if ammonia is approaching 0.5 ppm>
The 130 gallon won't be available for a few months so that isn't an option at this time.  I added some Ammonia Detox, but I know that is that like putting on a band-aid and not solving the problem.  Have you heard of Ammonia levels going from around 0 to ???
<Oh yes>
(whatever my tests are showing) in a week's time?  I just don't see how this is happening.
Would adding a pack of Nitrifying bacteria help?
<Possibly... see... re>
I saw in the FAQ's that they may have died out and need to grow back.
<Yes! The "powder"... likely bumped a bunch off, produced a physiological check>
Oh yeah, Ph is around 8.2, Nitrites are 0 and spg is 1.024.  The last time I checked Nitrate was about 2 weeks ago and it read 20.
Thanks for all of your help,
Jeremy
<Read on my friend... no more chemicals, please. Bob Fenner>

Re: Ammonia Spike in Established 55G Tank. Mis-stocked, Algicide et al. chemically poisoned, non-cycling system 5/26/06
Bob, Thanks for the reply.
My replies will be in double carats.
Hey Crew,
<Jeremy>
Very recently my tank's ammonia levels seem to be going off the charts.
<Not good>
My tank has been running for about a year and my Ammonia and Nitrates have never been high.  I have about 60-70lbs of LR and LS each.
Recently I added one of those dual BioWheel filter systems (rated to 75 gallon) along with my BakPak skimmer to help out because the skimmer has never really been that great...
<Mmm... why? Brand? Application? Mystery?>
<<Skimmate is usually clear, not the dark sludge I see coming out of other skimmers I see.>>
>Agreed re the apparent "lower-efficiency" of this unit<
  My tank inhabitants are a pair of Percula Clowns (1 - 2.5" and 1 - 1.25"), a 3-4" Blue Regal Tang and a 3" juv. Imperator Angel.  I know
this tank is small for the tang and angel but I am about to upgrade to a 130 gallon system that a friend no longer wants.  Those 4 fishes in a 55 shouldn't be considered overcrowding especially with the tang and angel being so small/young.  Or is it?
<Is... way too crowded... psychologically and appears physiologically>
<<Is 4 small fish "way too crowded?"  They show no signs of stress and they never fight.  They show to be very well adjusted to each other socially.  I can easily see it becoming the way you describe as they grow, but it isn't that way now, and that's why they will be in a 130 gallon in hopefully 2-3 months from now to avoid it from ever being that way.  Everything written about how to tell a good species from a bad one, my fish currently show all of the good traits.  Take it as a compliment, I used your advice and teachings to select the fish I wanted vs. an unhealthy fish, how to spot a good dealer/LFS and how to take proper care of them.  I try my best and have had a failure or two.
Also, territory doesn't seem to be an issue either.  The 2 clowns have their little spot but the tang and/or angel kind of hang out with them sometimes and never so much as a spat.  Maybe this is because they are still young.>>
>Yes... the large Pacific Angel will outgrow the 130 as well<
Last week I saw some Cyano growth on the LR.  I did a massive water change, and a few small ones as well as up the circulation to get rid of any dead spots.  I added a powerhead to shoot water through the center of the tank.  Other than the fishes taking turns to play in the current, I don't see any changes.  I usually don't feed too much either to keep the wastes down.  I added some "Red Slime Removal" powder
<A poor idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm>
<<Thanks for the link.  I was doing ok until this next part... Or at least I think so anyway>>
and I saw a noticeable reduction in the Cyano.
<Just recycled... toxic>
I am still not sure that I did the right thing adding that directly into the tank.  Now, it is all back <Yep> and my ammonia levels have gone through the roof.
<Ditto>
<<When I added the powder solution, I really didn't know what to do.  I am not using it as an excuse, but I was just at a loss.  I did the water changes, added extra circulation, even extra filtration to battle the nitrites/nitrates and ammonia, my water parameters were ok (at the time) and this red slime crap just wasn't going away. I am thinking about taking all of the rock out and putting it in a separate container like a Rubbermaid Tub and starving it.  Similar to what one should do if a case of crypt brakes out and letting the tank run fallow.  Right now I have the fishes in the QT.  I decided to just take the 55 down for good.  A friend wants it, and I am about to move and get a bigger tank.  This crisis actually happened at a good time as bad as it sounds.>>
>Mmm, please do take the not-so-long read on WWM re Cyanobacteria control... there are other very useful avenues for you to consider<
I have been checking my ammonia levels daily and it continues to look worse.  A level of 0 should show the color in the test tube to be a whitish yellow. Yesterday it was close to a teal color.  Yes, teal color.  I use the API Master Kit that everyone carries in their store.
My fishes show little to no signs of stress, (if anything they look as healthy as can be, and eat like a pack of starving wolves) but I don't like the idea of them swimming in (supposedly) nasty water.  Also I used AmmoLock for the first time and the label said the tests might show an increase of traceable ammonia levels but in a non toxic form that isn't distinguished by the tests.  
<Not a good idea either...>
<<Is AmmoLock just a bad idea period?  I usually use StressCoat to condition the tap water.  I tried this one instead since it advertised helping out with the ammonia levels.
I only added it like a supplement when I saw how high the ammonia level had risen just to do anything to detoxify the situation long enough to get my QT up and running at an acceptable level.  You're right, this probably wasn't the best idea either.  If this happens again, any advice?>>
>The use of this and other "anti-ammonia" chemical treatments are only quick stop-gap measures at best... they introduce other poor trade-offs and do absolutely nothing to ensure avoiding further troubles<
Did something all of a sudden go terribly wrong or is it the AmmoLock?
<Can't tell from here...>
I usually use StressCoat and Kent Ammonia Detox as tap conditioner.  I use Oceanic Salt.
<I would look for another salt brand. See WWM re>
<<Really?  I will definitely look into it.  I remember hearing that it
had a batch with phosphate issues.  Sounds like it is much more than that.>>
>Yes... a poor, inconsistent product<
Maybe my tap water is the problem.   
<That too?>
<<Hey, it is city water...  I know how wastewater treatment plants work for city water supplies.>>   
>Heeeee! Don't we all?<
Do I need to get my QT fired up and throw them in there until this is resolved or is this something fixable in the near future?
<... see WWM re Ammonia, Cycling... I would not feed these animals if ammonia is approaching 0.5 ppm>
<<I have been reading on it, trust me.  My internet time is really limited, so I can't get to everything that I need to see a lot of the time.  I think QT may be the best idea since the main tank is obviously very toxic and I didn't want to use any more chemicals.  
>You are wise here<
I just had to get the spg, ph and temp to match what they were used to. The QT ph was 8.2-8.4, spg was 1.024, amm = 0.25 (a tad high, but much better than the main tank) nitrite = 0, nitrate = 10.  Temp = 78F>>
The 130 gallon won't be available for a few months so that isn't an option at this time.  I added some Ammonia Detox, but I know that is
that like putting on a band-aid and not solving the problem.  Have you heard of Ammonia levels going from around 0 to ???
<Oh yes>
<<Your response is somewhat comforting, it isn't just me...>>
(whatever my tests are showing) in a week's time?  I just don't see how this is happening.
Would adding a pack of Nitrifying bacteria help?
<Possibly... see... re>
I saw in the FAQ's that they may have died out and need to grow back.
<Yes! The "powder"... likely bumped a bunch off, produced a physiological check>
<<This really explains a lot here.  As a beginner, sometimes it can be really hard to determine what will happen when foreign chemicals enter
an ecosystem.  I always keep in mind that the water is their life and the livestock are helpless and totally dependent on the aquarist to do
anything.>>
>Yes<
Oh yeah, Ph is around 8.2, Nitrites are 0 and spg is 1.024.  The last time I checked Nitrate was about 2 weeks ago and it read 20.
Thanks for all of your help, Jeremy
<Read on my friend... no more chemicals, please. Bob Fenner>
<<The only chemicals I use frequently are water conditioners.
>You can and should "get around" this use by pre-mixing and storing your synthetic water...<
My next investment will be a good RO/De-Ionization unit. Other than that, just iodine (2 caps per month), Kent PH Buffer (2 caps a week, if needed), and Kent Essential Elements (2 caps a month).  Then I do my best to leave it alone!>>
<<Also, a few months back I wrote you about possibly entering the marine biology field.  I will be sure to get back with you once I have better information for you.  I just have too much important stuff going on to take this on as well.  I really appreciate your help.>>
>And I your earnest sharing. Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner<

Chemically Treated My Cyanobacteria...Now In Big Trouble - 02/26/06
Bob,
<<EricR here this morning.>>
I have had my 75 gal tank set up for 3 years now.  I have  a wet/dry with a protein Skimmer, and I use Chemi-Pure regularly.  About 6  weeks ago I started to have a red slime out break along with green hair algae, and this black slime it was like a blanket on the LR (which smelled).  I  went to my local store and they sold me red slime remover, which after treatment I changed the water 2 times (20% changes) I also removed the black slime with my  hands (coming off in very large sheets).  Ok so then my fish start dying.  Within 2 days all fish are dead sinking to bottom of tank with labored  breathing ( 4 damsels, 1 goby, 1 per. clown and a blenny.)  I do water  changes to no avail.  I notice that my Mushrooms, and other corals are not doing well they have tighten up or not opened or are limp.  So I continue to do water changes ranging from 20-50% (I figured there's nothing to lose  now).  I also put in Chemi-Pure and a Poly-Filter.  I wait a few days and try some test damsels and within 6 hours there dead.  When this all started my water was tested and everything was great all within very good levels.  Or  so the store told me.  That day I had bought two sand sifter gobies and the next morning they were belly up in the tank.  I did the last water change at 75% 3 days ago and now I am at wits end.  Any Ideas?
<<Mmm, yes...I think you wiped out your bio-filter when you chemically treated your tank to kill the Cyanobacteria.  In addition to eliminating your tank's ability to process nitrogenous wastes, you also released toxic substances from the slime algae...I'm not surprised to hear things are getting worse.  And keep in mind concerning use of these chemicals for algae control...even had it not led to these problems, the algae would have been back in days to weeks as you are not addressing the cause/source of the algae.>>
There are currently no fish in tank and my corals and inverts are not happy at best.   By the way we have had no sprays or air fresheners or air borne things in the  home.  I use the same buckets that I have always used for water changes.
<<I would stop adding fish and stop doing water changes (for now) and let the tank cycle (this may take a while).  You also need to relocate your corals and inverts while this happens.  EricR>>
Thank you

Mystery Toxin?
Hi guys.
<Hey there! Scott F. here today!>
Bob here again.  Still having same problem with fish dying within 4 hrs.. Quick re-cap.  Had a diatom outbreak so used Chemi-Clean to clear it up.  Didn't follow instructions and made water change too late.
<Uh-Oh>
All parameters are within limits but silicates are slightly high  tank is 34 gal with BakPak skimmer and refugium. 7 " DSB and 35-40 lbs of rock.  Water is RO/DI.
Since the problem started I have changed out 100% of the rock and sand.  I acclimate the fish by floating the bag to adjust the temp first and then switching out a little water every 15 min.
Since putting the new rock in all bristle worms have died.  
<An interesting "side effect", huh?>
Is there any place here in No Cali to get the water tested and if so what should I look for???
<I'm not sure of the chemical composition of Chemi-Clean, so I can't even hazard a guess! My suggestion is to execute regular water changes, and use Poly Filter on a continuous basis. This stuff can really help remove possible toxins from your water! Activated carbon is good, too.>
Prior to the crash things were great, Xenias, mushrooms, Colts and Sarcophyton were thriving. I'm also using a white filter pad in the water flow that u guys highly recommend for removing toxins etc.  (Forget the name right now).  and it took weeks to change color to a light tan. Poly Filter  is the name.
<Yep! That's the stuff! Love it...!>
Any ideas or help would be greatly appreciated as this has been going on for about 4 months now.  Again, as usual, thanks for your help.  You guys are great.
<Thanks for the kind words! I think that the suggested water changes and continuous use of chemical filtration media is the way to go. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F>

Ammonia... killing off one's biofilter
Mr. Fenner, Thanks for all your help in the past.
<Welcome>
I have been battling ammonia the past couple weeks, and I lost a lot of fish. 
<Mmm... what are fishes doing in such water?>
I seem to have gotten it under control today. I have had my tank setup for about 6 months. I suddenly got a tremendous (off the scale) ammonia spike that I could do nothing to fix immediately. 
<From?>
I don't understand. I'm thinking I might have somehow caused new tank syndrome. I did replace my CPR BakPak skimmer with an ETSS reef devil, but the downward spiral started a couple days before that. I did keep my biomedia from the old skimmer and put it in a ventilated container and floated it in my sump. I don't know if that would do any good anyway.
<Should have>
Somehow, I think I killed off all the beneficial bacteria.
<I agree... or overwhelmed the system with proteinaceous material... did someone toss in a bunch of food... might an animal have died and you not caught it?>
I was reading all the posts and I think it was from excessive vacuuming of the DSB. it was so dirty though. I wanted your opinion on this observation: Immediately after 2 ammonia spikes settled down, the deep sand bed was covered in a rusty brown substance. That's what I vacuumed away. Is there any correlation between this "stuff" and the ammonia level going back to zero? 
<Yes... the brown stuff are likely diatoms, other algae... that need the ammonia to be gone, nitrate (product) to flourish>
It's just odd that the sand is white, and my ammonia is through the roof, and then finally the ammonia is gone, and instantly the sand is brown. Well, I still have 1 dogface puffer and 1 striped damsel left, and I don't want to go vacuuming if its gonna finish them off too. I'm really surprised they made it. My ammonia scale only goes to 2, and it was definitely way over that!
<Yikes>
Also, what do you think about Chemi-clean?  It's supposed "removes disease causing red Cyano bacteria, oxidizes trapped organic sludge and sediment. Chemi Clean also clarifies aquarium water to crystal clear and promotes ideal enzyme balance." 
<... not a good idea... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm>
I started having the troubles when I added this in conjunction with B-ionic Calcium Buffer, and Ruby Reef Kick Ich.
<Oooohhhh... This is the source of your trouble... you actually killed off your nitrifiers...>
I think maybe it all had some unknown effect.
<Yes, for sure>
I read something on your site about one of these effecting pH, which might affect ammonia? Thanks for your time, I read your posts daily.
B. Robinson
<The "Clean" product... kills microbes... including your beneficial bacteria... the "kick" product does nothing (but flavor food), the B-ionic is a fine product (for pH, alkalinity). More study, less chemicals my friend. Bob Fenner> 

Major Hair Algae Problem
Thank you for your prompt reply. So basically, besides stop adding the supplements, there is not much more I can do? 
<Yes, doing a 10% water change weekly helps much.> I have read mixed reviews about using medication to treat Cyano (e.g.
UltraLife Red Slime Remover, Boyd's Chemi-Clean and Kent Marine's Poly Ox).>
What do you guys think about them? 
<I think they work, but it's just a Band-aid. You can use it to initially kill it, but you have to go after the cause. Generally, high organic levels will cause this due to overfeeding/overstocking the tank. Keep using the Chemi-Pure. Most people go through this phase especially if the tank is newly set up. You will win the battle with good husbandry and careful feedings along with the water changes. It just takes time. Good luck. James (Salty Dog)>

Red ??? infestation... chemical Algicide troubles
Mr. Fenner,
<Bob, it's Bob, please>
Okay, I am stumped and am turning to you.  Basics, 80 gal marine tank, 110 watts power lights, 15 gal bubble sump, protein skimmer; primarily fish only with 100 lbs live rock, coral sand, temp 78 (25 c), pH 8.2, phosphate < .02, hydrom.. 1.020. Critters powder blue tang, French angel, flame hawk, coral beauty angel, snowflake eel, cleaner shrimp and arrow crab (none the worse for wear).
<Yikes... going to be very... too crowded in time>
  Problem, a red something is propagating at and alarming rate; covers sand, rock, acrylic every 24 hours.
<Heee... a good description>
This is exactly the color of red slime but has none of the sheeting characteristic of slime.  Rather, it is like a fine powder.  It is readily removable by use of a paper towels.  It will hold to the paper towel but have trouble not having it "cloud" in the tank.
Brief history, tank was in perfect condition, all critters doing fine.  Had a small red slime problem in that it began to show on the sides of the tank about 4 days after water changes.  Started to use UltraLife Reef Product's red slime remover about a month ago.  This worked remarkably well.
<Uhh, that's what you thought...>
Exit me on a business trip three weeks ago and my son takes over.  Begin to use store bought water instead of home mixed to safeguard against son making an error.  Over the course of two weeks this red stuff starts to show up.  Discontinue use of the red slime remover.  Two corals die, one a pulsing xenia, and the other from a similar family.  Came home to this red stuff.  Question, what is it and how do I take care of it.  Been doing lots of water changes, 5 gal every day for a week and then 10 gal twice in that time.  Any ideas?
Bob
<Yes... the treatment has changed your system... for the worse... Discontinue trying to selectively poison your tank... the red "stuff" is actually BGA/Cyano... growing back as it may... and it and the "algae treatment" are killing your other livestock... I would change a good quarter of your water out... wait three days and do this again, gravel vacuuming, use activated carbon, and likely PolyFilter in your filter flow path... Going forward, I strongly, make that STRONGLY encourage you to NOT use direct chemical means of controlling BGA... the stuff has been here, oh, 2-3 billion years... will be here when we're long, loooooong gone. Please read here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm
and the links above. Bob Fenner>

Red Mat Algae 12/14/04
I have a 75 gallon reef with corals and fish, 1 year old.... 300 watts of compact lighting on 12 hour cycle. I have recently had an outbreak of red algae that resembles the "typical" green algae on the live rock.
<sounds like red Cyanobacteria (AKA a "BGA"... do keyword searches for these terms with the search tool on our home page>
at first I thought it was Cyano algae
<agreed>
... so I treated with ChemiClean several times with respective water changes. After contacting several local stores I  have found that they are experiencing similar outbreaks.
<this does not exclude Cyanobacteria>
I use RO/de-ionized water, as do they.
<hopefully aerated and buffered before use as evap or for salting... else your pH and/or Alkalinity are likely low or flat (under 8.3 pH by night and under 10 dKH?). If so, this will contribute to such nuisance algae. Get your pH soundly to 8.3-8.6 and ALK of 10-12 dKH>
The algae isn't Cyano. algae, doesn't grow long, just stays "velvet like" on the rock...  any ideas?
<without a close detail pic or better description, my hands are tied here. Just guessing. Anthony>

Chemical control of BGA
how  do I get rid of  red slime and are the products  safe  for  fish and inverts
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm and beyond, the articles and FAQs archived (linked, in blue, at top) on Blue Green Algae/Cyanobacteria, Chemical Controls... the use of antibiotics as algicides is NOT encouraged. Bob Fenner>

Re: Red bubbles
Bob
<Linda>
Hi, sorry to bother you again about my blue-green algae.
<Not a bother>
  We did the 30 gal water change that you suggested, we changed our carbon, we used a soft brush and brushed all the red slime off all the rocks and it looked very encouraging.  Then today the next day the red bubbles are all back.
<Yes... simple organisms can have very fast "doubling rates"... if the conditions that allowed the BGA to proliferate have not been substantially altered it can grow right back! As you well know>
  I talked to a LFS today and he sold me some stuff called Maracyn.  It says is made out of 200 Mg erythromycin activity per tablet.
<Yes... an antibiotic first packaged and sold in the aquarium interest by Mardel Lab.s back in 1969. I was one of their technical liaisons at one time...>
We have a 125gal tank and he told me to use 5 tablets every other day for 3 times.  I am just double checking with you because this stuff says it is for freshwater fish, Fin and tail Rot and body fungus.  Is this ok for me to use?
<No... or should I state, "not really"... all the algae (and many other micro-organism groups) dying off at once can cause huge havoc in your system... including such a decline in overall water quality that you might lose all your livestock. There are several references to this posted on WWM. Start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/maralgcidefaqs.htm
and on to the many linked files (in blue, at top). You will find a mix of results, but one general opinion... there are better, safer ways to "treat" these situations than chemical means.>>
He said he has used it for years and learned it from a biologist.  Is it going to hurt my corals, and my clams?.
<Very likely yes>
  I am so discouraged right now.  Every day my algae gets worse and I will wait till I hear from use to use this stuff.
Thanks
Linda
<Linda, please read over the article on BGA posted on WWM... seek to remedy the cause/s of your BGA proliferation here... enhanced water quality... through better skimming, chemical filtrant use (do you have excess nitrates, phosphate?), perhaps the addition of purposeful macro-algae, a better, larger means of denitrification... many roads exist for curtailing pest algae growth... chemical means are the last avenue to attempt... and are fraught with danger. Read until you understand what you are doing THEN act my friend. Bob Fenner>

Dead Zoanthids - Cyanobacteria 11/5/04
Two weeks ago, I had a bad case of red slime, an F/S recommended I added Ultra Life's Red Slime Remover, so I did
<Aiiiieeeee! No, please say it's not so :( This is an anti-biotic. Do look up the root definition of the term. Or, no... I'll spare you: anti-biotic: against-life
Sure... it kills the Cyanobacteria... and so much more! And sadly, red slime algae is staggeringly easy to kick without hardly lifting a finger. Its all about controlling nutrients. Not allowing thawed pack juice from frozen foods into the aquarium, skimming aggressively, increasing water flow and water changes. A cure in 2 weeks or less>
and it worked great. The red slime was gone but also an entire colony of zoos. The zoos closed up and are turning a dark brown should I just give on them and declare it a lost or should I just wait and see? How do you even know when a zoo is completely
dead? William
<water changes, good water flow and time/patience my friend. And please do read through our archives on BGA/Cyanobacteria/Red Slime Algae my friend. So much info. Anthony>

Adding buffer, and ridding algae.
Hi, Hope all is going well for all of you there.  I have several questions please.  First, I have read on your website that when preparing saltwater in a container for water changes the ph buffer should be added before the salt mix.  Why is this?  It seems it should be just the opposite as the buffer is for saltwater. << I don't add buffer to my mixed salt water.  But if I did, I would be like you and add it after mixing the salt mix.  I'm unsure of why someone told you otherwise, they may have a good reason but I haven't heard that before.  Maybe they meant you add the buffer to your freshwater, before you add the freshwater to your tank as top off water.  That I agree with. >> Also, I have read a couple of articles about people using hydrogen peroxide to treat algae in freshwater aquariums.  Do you know if this if feasible in saltwater and if so what would be the dosage? << No I wouldn't do that.  First, because I don't think you should be trying to kill algae... it is the greatest!  Plus, if you do have an algal problem, I think there are many "natural" ways to take care of it. >>  What about barley straw extract in saltwater? << It would be better to describe what kind of algae problems you have, and then let us go from there to think of ideas. >>  Thanks for your help, James
<<  Blundell  >>

Product Availability
Hi, I read some reviews on the website "About Saltwater Aquariums" on a product formerly called "Clean and Clear" and now "Aqua Treat".  It is an algae control product and I cannot find information on it anywhere. Are you familiar with it and if so, do you know where I can purchase some? Thanks, James
<Sorry, James, I am afraid I have not heard of either product. I tend to focus more on attacking algae by getting at the root cause of the problem (i.e.; nutrient excesses, etc.), so- to be quite honest- I rarely even look at products and additives as means of eliminating algae problems. You could email Stand or Debbie Hauter, who are the moderators on the "About" SW site. They are very knowledgeable and nice people, and they might be more aware of the products that you mention. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful...Hope this helps. Regards, Scott F.>
James Hall

Cyano Treatment
Hi, <Hi Wes>
A LFS suggested that I use E.M. Tablets (erythromycin) to help get my Cyano outbreak under control... well  I was reading through your FAQ about Cyanobacteria and I found an email in which you say that this type of treatment can take out the entire livestock... well this obviously scares me. <I can see why.> Being skittish to start with I only placed 1 200MG tablet in my 55g tank, I figured if I saw a difference then I would take action accordingly from there. However if this is very risky then I certainly will discontinue this course. <I have to say that way back when I did a treatment with Erythromycin, and really had no bad effects from it. The problem is that it kills bacteria and doesn't discriminate between good bacteria and bad bacteria.> I doubt the 1 tablet I added would have any detrimental effects on my system I hope, since a normal dosage is suggested to be 1 200mg tablet per 10 gallons. <Its definitely a low treatment but I also don't think it would be enough to make a difference.> At any rate I would appreciate your opinion/knowledge. <In my opinion if you have exhausted all other remedies and you are at your wits end it would be okay to do a treatment with Erythromycin. I personally wouldn't do more than a half treatment in the hopes that it would take out most of the bad and leave a lot of the good. But there are multiple other things that you can do to treat Cyano. I personally have good luck dosing Kalkwasser, and cutting way back on the feedings.>
Also I do have to point out that I thought at first I just had brown diatoms, as what I have is more of a dark brown rather than a reddish color... http://home.stny.rr.com/oneofakind/greenmushroom.jpg there is a picture of some of it on my LR, can you confirm that it is indeed Cyano? <Hard to tell from a picture but does it have bubbles underneath it? Does it feel like its coating the existing rocks and sand? Is it nasty and slimy? In all honesty just from the picture looks to me like diatoms.> And again on a side note, the black arrows pointing to what I now know is a type of Caulerpa are there because I was showing the pic trying to figure out what it was awhile ago. <I have to say it looks like a type of Halimeda to me. You do know the red plant next to it is definitely Caulerpa? Let me recommend that for an exact identification you go to www.algaebase.org.> Now that I have gotten past my ignorance I realize that although I like those little mushroom looking things, they can be quite risky to keep! The colony has almost tripled in size since that photograph, I want to rip it out but I have a couple of concerns. First of all I'm afraid that it is taking up a lot of nitrates itself and if I remove it altogether the Cyano will become even worse. <That is possible but depending on the amount there I don't think its going to take all that much out from your tank.> Secondly is it true that removing it may cause its cell wall to burst and therefore release toxins? <It could possibly release nitrates or organics back into the tank if you do it in the tank. My suggestion might be to do any kind of pruning etc in a bucket and not in the tank. Then throwing that water you used away.> Or can it be safely removed if done gently without removing the rock that it is on from the tank to do so? <Honesty Wes when I prune Caulerpa from my refugium I just pull it out. Have to say its probably not a pretty site.> Your help is appreciated!
thanks, Wes

- Former Crew Member Reports Back From Beyond -
I know you guys don't usually recommend products like this but I have to share my experience with you and your readers. <Thanks Ronni, good to hear from you.>
I have many tanks but only a problem in 2 of them, my 10g salt and my 60g planted freshwater Tetra tank. Both of them had serious hair algae problems.
In my 10g SW the hair algae was literally covering my rocks so much that you couldn't see them, choking out my Caulerpa, and even clogging my trickle filter if I didn't pull it once a week or so. I ran every water test I could think of and all of my levels were exactly where they should be. I tried a PolyFilter, I tried PhosGuard, I tried Essential Elements, I tried daily water changes, I tried different lighting periods, I tried less feeding, and everything else I could think of. Finally at my wits end I ordered some Algone. When it arrived I placed one of the pouches in the filter of my tank. Within a few hours (yes, hours) I noticed a brownish tinge to the ends of the hair algae. The next day it was a bit more brown, the next week it was thinner, and each day after it has gotten even thinner until now (about 3-4 weeks later) there's only a small portion of what was originally there. I kept a very close watch on my fish and my Caulerpa during all of this and figured at the first sign of stress I would remove the Algone and do a major water change. My fish never showed any stress, the opposite happened! Their colors improved, their appetites were as big as ever (I have 2 very small Clowns that never want to stop eating!), and they were swimming out in the open more. My Caulerpa went back to being the bright green it originally was instead of a pale green, and I also noticed an increase in coralline algae growth (not growing where I wanted it to but hey, at least it was growing!).
In my 60g FW planted tank the hair algae would form a cloud that my fish would get tangled in and it was choking out my plants. Again, I tried many different things to solve the problem but none seemed to work. So I placed one pouch of Algone (1 pouch treats up to 55 gallons) in there and let it go for a week. I didn't see it slow the hair algae growth at all. I added another pouch figuring one wasn't quite strong enough. After another 2 weeks I'm still seeing major growth. I let it go for the 2 weeks but it finally got so bad it was driving me nuts and day before yesterday I pulled a baseball sized clump out. Oh well...
I was really disappointed that the Algone didn't work in my FW tank but after seeing how well it worked in the SW tank I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to anyone who has a SW hair algae problem!
Ronni
<Thanks for sharing. Again, good to hear from you. Hope all is well. Cheers, J -- >

More Cyanobacteria - 2/20/04
I have recently had a problem with red slime....actually looks more like black fur. <Blue green Cyanobacteria is a real nuisance.> I was advised to use Chemi-Clean which I did. <Never heard of it. I highly recommend against these remedies as they usually nuke the tank of nitrifying bacteria and in some to most cases kill your fish and invertebrates. The issue usually arises from lack of a proper maintenance regime, lack of water circulation and turnover, or maturation of a newly established tank. (can take up to 9 months) 75G tank 4 months old. <Ahhhhh....see?>  There are sparse instructions with the product. <May need to contact the manufacturer of the product or talk to the person who advised you to use it in the first place> It says to wait 48 hours and retreat if necessary.  My question is, how do I know if it needs retreated? <I have no idea> Will all the gunk disappear if it worked or will that residual stay until I vacuum it out and do a water change? <I would do both vacuum it out and do a 20% water change. Use a poly-filter or high grade carbon to extract the rest of the product. Increase your water change regimen and watch your feeding technique. Read through our FAQs and articles on algae control. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm Thanks for your question ~Paulo>  
Thanks.  JJ

Re: Hydrogen Peroxide question
Bob:
I