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FAQs about Toxic Water Conditions: Exogenous Causes (External, Inorganic... e.g. Paint, Metals, Fish Medicine-Biocides... Oh my!)

Related Articles: Copper Use in Marine Systems, Marine Toxic Tank Conditions , General  Marine Maintenance,

Related FAQs: Insecticides, Cleaners, Copper Use in Marine Aquariums, Toxic Situations 1, Toxic Situations 2, Toxic Situations 3, Toxic Situations 4, Toxic Situations 5, Toxic Situations 6, Toxic Situations 7, Toxic Situations 8, Toxic Situations 9, & FAQs on Toxic Water Conditions by: Unknown Causes, & Endogenous (from inside, e.g. Internal, Organic Causes), Foods, Nutrients, Venomous/Poisonous Tankmates, Wipe-out Syndromes/New Tanks e.g., Exogenous Causes: Marine Algaecide Use/Chemical Control, Toxic Copper Use Situations/Troubleshooting, Insecticides, Cleaners, & Troubleshooting/Fixing,

Carbon dioxide, kitty litter boxes, metal clamps valves, fittings... hydrometer/thermometer ballast, paint, solvents, glues, and cleaner and cooking oils and... in the air. Broken light bulbs and heaters... perfumes, deodorants, soaps on hands/arms and detergents on clothes, towels... Smoking tobacco, wood... et al.
Oh! And chemical additives, mis-mixes, including most fish medicine ingredients!

Bologna in My Reef Tank 3/29/08
Hi, there I have problem here, my 4 year old son put bologna in my reef tank and there is 3 pieces that I can't get out. So would you please let me know if this could harm my fish or corals.
Thanks,
Patricia
<I see no immediate issue, it should be processed by your reef life (unless they are not fond of bologna). I would however continue to try and get it out, perhaps if you have a powerhead you can attach a hose to and blow the pieces to where you can get at them. Welcome, Scott V.>

Heavy Metal, ferrous discovery, removal  03/19/2008
Crew,
<<Ben>>
Thank you in advance. I was doing my glass cleaning on my 240 reef tonight with my Tiger Shark cleaning magnet when, about 1" above the sand bed, a small, dime sized thingy leapt from the sand and stuck to the inner magnet. I pulled it out and although it looked somewhat rock like, it was more dense than a rock would be and pulled very strongly on the magnet when held close. Obviously this thing has some sort of metal in it's composition. Should I be worried? It had to have come in with the Caribsea sand I used for the tank. Since my rock rests directly on the bottom of my tank, the vast majority of my sand is exposed and I can vacuum seal the outer piece of my Tiger Shark (very powerful) and run it over the sand to see if anything else comes out. Whada ya think? Thanks,
<<I would certainly check by hovering the Mag cleaner over the sandbed to remove any other items. I would not be overly concerned by this>>
Ben
<<Thanks for the questions, A Nixon>>

Re: Untimely demise... tank poisoning by baby/battery  10/22/07
Thank you for the prompt reply. I do believe I found the culprit, now I am not sure if there is anything specific I need to do, other than a water change. I was looking in the sump this morning, the light on it has been off because it got wet, oops, and saw a reddish orange color. That piqued my interest, because there is nothing that color in the tank. I found a AA battery, swollen and exploded (compliments of the 2 year old I'm sure). The substrate there is stained reddish orange as well, I am assuming I need to remove that. An additional concern now is that the Scolymia coral is very pale looking, not totally bleached out, but pale. I am guessing it is related to the pollution as well?
<<Veronica: Wow. A battery is not good. A water change would help a lot as it will dilute any toxins. If the tank doesn't look better, try doing more than one. Best of luck, Roy>>

Disaster...no Clue. AP TWP, some sort of catastrophic cascade poisoning event Hello!   12/9/07
I have a major problem with my tank and have spent 3 weeks trying to sort it out. I have searched your site and just can't seem to find anything that relates to my situation.
<Let's see...>
My set up is a 90 gallon with a Pro Clear 150 series 2.
<This wet-dry? http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00061UXXC?smid=AEL917WTFL8PV&tag=msnshop-pet-mp-20&linkCode=asn>
The tank has been up and running for over a year now with no problems. Nitrates, Nitrites and Ammonia all at zero. PH runs about 8.2. I added some red Gracilaria to the Sump. (After the skimmer below bio ball before the return) I was running a light on opposite cycle from the main tank lights as well. A month after adding the Gracilaria I started to see copods
<No such thing... Copepods>
down there and when I did a water change they would sometimes go flying out into the tank. A few of them took up residence around some of my polyps and pulsing xenia. Life was good in the tank! I did water changed weekly of about 10 gallons. This went on for a year with no problems or losses.
<Good>
Rather than purchase water I decided to invest in a Tap Water Filter by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.
<Mmm, please see WWM... this product is unworthy... a toy if you will... Not cheap or really functional to produce clean water>
I did some reading and this was supposed to be a great product. Recommended by Jack Wattley and all.
<Jack... Wattley... knows better than to have lent/sold his name here. I will say no more re>
I mixed up my first 5 gallon batch and decided to test it first since I wanted to be sure the water was good before adding it to my tank. Testing pre-salt showed 0 nitrates, nitrites, ammonia and chlorine. I did note the PH was very low. Around a 5.0 but once I added the salt mix it came right up to the 8.0 level. I added the 5 gallons and then mixed the next 5 gallons. Testing again gave the same results. While I was working on the tank I decided that I would add a little of the bio active sand to the sump. I placed it down with the Gracilaria to try and keep the pods going strong.
The next morning it looked like a war zone. Pulsing xenia was withered away and the mushroom leather corals were all shriveled up. I tested and found my nitrates 20 nitrites were at .5.
<Yikes...>
Panic set in so I went and did another 10 gallon water change. Again, testing the water before placing it in the tank. 24 Hours later my nitrates 20 nitrites were at 3.0 and all coral, blue leg, emerald green, peppermint and cleaner shrimp were dead.
<Yes... poisoned>
I again did another water change, this time I did 30 gallons. The nitrites came down to .5 and I decided to go and purchase some Prime since it seemed my tank was in a cycle. Odd thing is ammonia was 0 or .5 during this whole ordeal.
<Not all microbes mal-affected evidently>
Day 4 I tested and now the nitrates 20, nitrites were at 5.0 I lost a chromis ammonia was .05. I did another 30 gallon water change and got nitrites down to 1.0. I decided that perhaps too many water changes were causing a cycle. I had to go away for 3 days and the tank just sat. I turned off the lights as to try not to stress the remaining fish. Upon my return the nitrites were back up, but to 10.0 this time! Nitrates were 40 and believe it or not 2 false Percs, yellow tail blue tang and lawnmower were still alive. Ok, so the tank is clear I thought maybe it's my test kit. I got a brand new kit and tested. Nitrates 40 Nitrites 10.0 and ammonia at .5. Two test kits same readings.
So a week after using the new water filter and adding the sand I am in a mess. I did water changes of 10 gallons every day for a week. That kept the nitrites at about 3.0 all week. I then tried cycle to see if somehow it would help balance things out. Day 14 I added the cycle nitrites were 3.0 nitrates at 10. The next morning I was looking at Nitrates over 200 and nitrites over 10 ! All 4 fish were still alive. I tried both test kits same readings.
<Yes... a cascade effect... the nitrogenous materials are/were derived from the rapidly decomposing biota...>
I know it seems like I am just throwing stuff at the tank to make something stick but I tried water changes I am starting to think that it's the water I am using from that filter.
<Likely this is/was the origin here>
(Perhaps I am being stubborn and I could just go buy water again but after shelling out the money for the water filter and testing the water and it being fine I figured that can't be the cause) I DID test each batch before placing it into the tank and it was fine.
<... for what you were measuring...>
Perhaps my local water becomes unstable after going through that filter?
<Mmm, not the source water, no... but possibly the TWP>
I have replaced the filter now twice since it is only good for about a 100 gallons. My readings were good but since the package said "up to 150 gallons" I did not want to press my luck.
<... Let me cut to the proverbial chase. I'd toss the TWP... and look into, buy a real water filter... either an RO or RO/DI device...>
So at this point what would you suggest? More water changes? Just let it sit and run it's course? Light on ? off ? More prime? More Cycle? Take the sand out of the sump? Trash the water filter?
<Yes to the second, and last, no to all others>
It's been about 3 weeks now and the 4 fish are still alive but the Gracilaria lost it's color completely. I added a little more to the tank to see and it too lost it's color.
LOST and in desperate need of some direction here.
Thanks So Much I just know you can give me some help.
Derek
<Please, take your time... and read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/index.htm
the sixth/blue tray on water... the sections, articles, FAQs files on treatment/filtering. Bob Fenner>

Fingernail polish reef safe?   12/9/07
Hello. I wear fingernail polish that is reapplied every 2 weeks. Is it safe to put my hands in my 72G. reef tank?
<I do think so... Once the chemicals used are "cured", set, they are inert. When new/"wet", do keep your hands out of the tanks>
When my husband cleans the tank every week the shrimp "clean" his fingernails and climb on his arm. Looks like fun! Is it safe for me to do this?
<Likely so... the smelly solvents that function as carriers, evaporate, go away with curing, leave behind material that is non-toxic>
Thanks for the wonderful service you provide. Ellen
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Metal in reef aquaria 12/19/07
Greetings Crew
<Hello Mark.>
I am in the process of starting a new 100 gal reef and would like to get it right the first time with your help. The lighting is installed, a new Euro-Reef skimmer is in the sump, and I'm ready for live rock.
<Congratulations>
What I'm not sure about is the use of metallic objects in reef systems.
The metallic objects I refer to include a titanium heater, a submersible Mag 12 pump which utilizes stainless steel screws to fasten the pump chamber to the motor, and an Aqua UV ultraviolet sterilizer. The sterilizer is my main concern here as it is equipped with a sleeve wiper actuated by a 1/4" rod about 8" long. All these items have been used in a previous setup with no appreciable corrosion so the stainless is of good quality.
I have always made a point of avoiding metal fasteners and clamps where contact with the water is likely but these items are supposedly made for this application.
<Good practice.>
Do I have cause for concern?
<No, these items can be used no problem.>
Thanks,
Mark P.
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Sump Near Oil Furnace - 12/13/07
I have learned a great deal from your site, thank you. I have not been able to find any mention of what might be troubling me with my tanks. I have two reef tanks one 72 bow front in my basement, one 210 on first floor of my home - they run off the same water system and sump in the basement. The sump, which contains my protein skimmer, water pumps and heater is in very close proximity of my oil burning furnace. [Living in Maine - basic necessity.] The sump ( a 45 gallon tote ) is approximately 1 foot away from the furnace. I do not have a cover on the sump - lots of open water. I use RO water. My fish are doing great, fat and healthy. My corals are not so great; they fail to thrive. Do you think it has something to do with the proximity of the furnace/sump.
<Mmm... might have an influence... I would likely contact a business in the field of such heat technology, ask what tools they suggest for testing for contamination here, what compounds are typically found in association... Perhaps a few calls to a college with a chemistry department re what they might be able to do for you re mass spectrophotometry>
My local reefing expert and friend at AquaCorals in Fairfield, Maine has brainstormed all parameters -
<Mmm, would like to see/hear this...>
thinks all is fine but questions the
furnace. What do you think?
Jeanine M. Brown
<... Could experiment or just move the sump... try covering it at least... Bob Fenner>

Water chemistry question... Anomalous invert. SW losses   2/21/08
Hey guys, long time lurker first time e-mailer. I have a 50g mixed reef with a 20g sump/refuge. My water parameters always test to 0ppm for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate; phosphates are about 0.05ppm (LFS test), calcium is between 400 and 450ppm, Alk is 10dkh, lastly my magnesium is 1350. The tank was upgraded from my 24g nanocube which ran for 2 years, and now my 50g has been up for about 10 months. I've been having a bad green hair algae problem and been having a hard time keeping my Astrea and Mexican Turbos alive for more then a month.
<Mmm... something... is growing there that is poisoning the snails...>
I now only have 2 Astraea's, initially I couldn't figure out why I would lose my Astraea's and Turbos but after surfing around on WWM I think I'm attributing it to pyramid snails.
<Maybe...>
I see them around the tank and I pick them out by hand, and now I inspect my two Astraea's and remove the pyramid's from them.
<Do you see these actually on the dead snails?>
I don't see the pyramids much anymore. Anyway I did get 2 months ago a Sixline partially because I wanted to see if it would eat the pyramids and partially because I like watching them. Anyway he lasted about 2 weeks and I found him stuck to my maxi-jet 1200 that I modded for more flow.
<Also likely poisoned...>
I don't know why he died but he looked great up until I came home and saw him dead. Anyway because I can't keep snails alive a few weeks after that I got a sea hare
<Mmm, I would be checking the species, its biology... too many of these are coldwater, too toxic themselves...>
thinking maybe with the absence of snails or a clam the pyramids would die. The sea hare did great, he was mowing down the algae but he lasted 2 weeks as well.
<Something, chemical, biochemical...>
I found him one day behind my rockwork white as a ghost and with his guts spit out. Lastly a month later I decided to get a tuxedo urchin. He's been great at eating the algae as well but he just died today. Is there some type of pest that would take these guys out, or is there some chemical that both my LFS and my tests aren't looking for? Oh by the way, I do a water change out of 10g once every week and a half and for fish I only have 2 ocellaris clowns and they have been in both tanks since day one and they and my corals don't seem to be affected at all. This can't just be bad luck can it?
<Again... summat amiss here... Could be a blue-green, other Division algae, or something else... I would try using a pad of PolyFilter (please write back re colors you see accumulating on the pad), and add a good bit of some "other" species of useful algae to your lighted area of the refugium (Gracilaria or Chaetomorpha are my best choices)... You need to eliminate whatever the toxicity is here, and these steps should do it. Bob Fenner>

Re: Water chemistry question... Anomalous invert. SW losses... Tufa rock  2/21/08
Thank you very much for your help. I'll pick up some PolyFilter and let you guys know. I do have some Chaeto in my fuge and it grows fast
<A good sign>
but my fuge is starting to be overcome by the hair algae as well.
<A bad one... Do you have access to a few hundred power microscope? I am suspecting that this hair algae is a Cyanobacteria... no nuclei or other visible endoplasmic inclusions... See WWM re ID...>
The algae itself is a darker green and is soft/silky when I pull it out.
<Does it feel slimy?>
I'm also using about 40 pounds of tufa rock if that has anything to do with it,
<Erp! Does... See WWM re... use the search tool and the term... on the "Ask the Crew..." page, view the cached views... the Tufa rock is VERY likely the source of trouble here>
the other 30 pounds are Fiji base rocks transferred from my nano cube. Anyway thank you for your time, I'll update you in a few days.
<The PolyFilter will help absorb some of the Tufa issue, but not indefinitely... it needs to be pulled. BobF>

Re: Water chemistry question... Anomalous invert. SW losses... Tufa Rock  2/21/08
Aha! Tufa rock, man I wish I would have read what I just read 10 months ago.
<Ah, you and I both>
I'm attaching a picture of what the algae looks like in my tank.
<Nice... except for the...>
I do have to say that until I got my ATO working in my sump when I was first setup and cycling the tank my water level ran low and 2 times I had to top off with tap water because I didn't have an RODI unit and the grocery store's unit was down for maintenance. The algae started out as Cyano obviously because of my use of tap water and after 3 months turned to what you see now in the picture. It's not really slimy, at least not like what Cyano feels like but it is kind of close. You can see in the picture that all of the tufa rock has bad hair algae and non of my established Fiji rock has it.
<A clue eh?>
I manually pick it out to battle it, I've gone as far as remove the rocks on the right side of the tank to scrub them in water from a water change and then put them back in only to find that the problem got worse.
<More exposed surface area on the Tufa...>
It seems like the more I pick the algae out the faster it grows back. My dad's work has an electron microscope that takes pictures he's going to see if he can bring it home over the weekend because I'll be up in Cleveland visiting my parents, if not he said I can put some algae in a test tube and he'll take it to work and email me the pictures.
<Neat!>
Also to answer a previous question you asked, I have never seen the so called pyramid snails that I think I have on a dead Astrea or turbo, but I have seen them on the live ones. I figured better to be safe then sorry and pick them out. In my nano-cube they did stay on the glass and algae all the time but I had a hard time keeping the snails alive there too, especially Mexican Turbos.
<These may be something other than Pyramidellids>
I had one live about 8 months but the replacement one lived 2 or 3 months. The poly-filter is in my sump, what color would it turn if its a toxic chemical from the tufa rock? Green?
<We'll see... depends on the nutrients available, preponderant>
Lastly, my wife and I are closing on a house tomorrow and will be moving into it on March 2nd.
<Ah, congrats!>
My plans were to first plumb a 50g Rubbermaid stock tank in our basement and plumb that to the main tank that would be on the first floor in our family room. My idea for moving would be to dig my snails out of the sand, and pitch the sand and start fresh as recommended by my local reef club. To transport the water I was going to use the orange 5g painter buckets to get them from my apartment to my new house and setup my 24g nano until the dust clears in the main tank with the new sand. If the tufa rock is the culprit, I have about 40lbs in my main display, if I were to remove it and add 40lbs of Fiji rock to my main display wouldn't the combination of adding the sand and rock send my tank into another cycle?
<Quite possibly so... I'd get the new Fiji LR and cure it ASAP, and move it in with the big MOVE>
If so should I just keep my nano-cube up and running to just re-cycle my tank or how would you go about that whole situation? Also, to clarify, were you referring to my algae problem being caused by the tufa rock maybe? Or where you referring to the tufa rock releasing the toxin into my system killing new additions? Or both?
<Both... or the algae the Tufa is "sponsoring" in turn producing toxins... The Tufa's got to go. Bob Fenner>

Re: Water chemistry question... Anomalous invert. SW losses... Tufa Rock  2/23/08
Just an update, I am going tomorrow to phishybusiness to pick up about 40 pounds of Eva live rock and I will cure it in my 24g nanocube. The PolyFilter pad has started to turn a green/brown color.
Hopefully this fixes my toxin problem so that I could get some new fish that I've had my eyes on.
<Ahhh! B>

Toxic tank, Contaminated Calcium Reactor Media    2/12/07
  I have had toxic tank syndrome for 8 months now.  My pulsing Xenia starts to turn black in less than 24 hours.  All SPS corals had to be removed from my 180 gallon 5 year old tank.  Lost some fish, scooter blenny, mandarin, Rainford's goby.
<Yikes... so, what have you done re the toxicity?>
    To make a long story short, I changed water like crazy, searched everything for a metal contamination.  Could find nothing, so I emptied the system completely.  Cleaned it all out, replaced the sand bed, all rock, everything out, and refilled with natural sea water.  After a week, I put a piece of pulsing Xenia in last night, and this morning the polyps were starting to turn black.
    I got mad, again, and the only thing I had not done was to empty my calcium reactor.  I put the media in a bowl and searched it.  Using a magnet, I found small flakes of metal of some sort, laced through the media!!!!!!!!!
<Yikes...>
  I have not idea how it got there!  Not from me!  I won't mention a brand name here.
<I wish you would... My wife, Diana, used to distribute Knop Products in N. America... their Korallith was/is very pure...>
    I will do a 100% water change as soon as possible.  I can not afford to change the rock and sand bed again!  What further steps should I take?  Carbon?  Poly filters?
<Yes to both of these... this should do it>
Will my new rock and sand be ok?
<Very likely yes>
There are no fish or corals in the tank st this time.  All have been moved to other systems.
  Help
  Richard
<Thank you for relating your experiences... Will save many others huge headaches and grief. Bob Fenner>

Carnage. Reef livestock losses... env., toxicity?  2/19/07
Hi,
I have a 120 gallon reef tank which I thought was doing pretty well until yesterday morning when a number of my fish died or were dying.  They looked as if they were starving for oxygen.  I lost three angels, a tang, spotted  hawk.
and a marine beta.  A very large wrasse and tomato clown were subdued but are just fine today after an emergency water exchange.
<Useful data... these would persist longer than the others lost... due to low O2, other poisoning types>
  Indeed the tank looks as beautiful as ever.
<... frightening...>
I went to the local retailer for help with a pre-water exchange water sample.
The pH was fine, next to no nitrates. dKH was fine, Mg 1200, Ca 340 to 385 depending on the test kit used.  I was unable to get any good explanation for this occurrence other than there must have been a sudden change in pH due to excessive CO2.  
<Mmm... no, not likely>
But my morning pH is no different than any other time.  I have no excessive algae to speak of.
Another puzzling thing; I use the two step calcium replacement, Kent part A and part B.  Lately, when I add the part B I get a snow effect that lasts just a few minutes.  
<... not in your main display... Please... do such adjustments through water changes... the products added there... dissolved... ahead of time>
Is this anything to be concerned about?
<All sorts>
  And while I'm thinking about it is there a general rule for the amount of calcium and magnesium to add to a reef tank?
<... None... directly...>
  Also,  I'm looking for a reliable calcium test kit.  Any recommendations?
<Posted on WWM... LaMotte, Hach... on the lower end, Salifert>
In any case, I'm at a loss as to finding out why these fish died.  I haven't changed anything other than getting some better lighting.
<In recent times? Anything else?>
I do water exchanges monthly
<I would do these at least bi-monthly>
including vacuuming the bottom of the tank.  Trace minerals are added consistently.
<Only through water changes...>
I did recently add a rather large medusa worm which I don't see anymore.  I don't know if it was lost in the carnage or could it possibly have caused this carnage by dying?  
<Yes... this or other possibly seemingly innocuous animal demise, upset... For instance, sea cucumbers of many sorts...>
Any input you may have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ray                           
<I do think you suffered an internal biological toxicity... but can't detect what organism/s might be involved from the information presented... Would proceed slowly, use chemical filtrant/s, make water chemistry and physics changes outside the system going forward. Bob Fenner>

Painting a room with a fish tank  2/18/07
Hi WWM Crew,
<Helen>
  I have two questions.
  The first is about painting a room with a fish tank. The only other email to you have that I found with a similar question involved a tank that was
large and had to be moved anyway, but I'm thinking that my 5 gallon could stay in the room while painting.
<Yes, likely so>
The problem is I have no idea what I should be concerned about, what precautions to take or things to lookout for when painting.
<Most "modern" paints don't have "that much" in the way of dangerous VOC content... and if the tank is not too crowded... simply turning off all air-entraining devices (air pumps, venturi type powerheads...) and covering the tank with a damp towel... and of course some decent air circulation (painting on a "nice" day with the windows, doors partly open)... should do it>
  The tank is well covered, being one of those water home acrylic kits sold by Hagen. It is light enough to move without taking apart, unless I had to
move it out of the room.
  Also, I will be upgrading to a 55 gallon tank in about three months (mom is painting now,
<And I hope you're helping...>
I will be moving out then). One of the worries I have about a tank this size is heating the water that I use to replace the water that is removed during water changing.
<Mmm, for freshwater, you can just "toss in" some hot water from the tap (is what I do)... unless your source water is "terrible"... Elsewise, it is strongly advised nowadays, that folks store water to be changed out... in a designated "trash can" or such... and using a heater that is readily unplugged... is a good idea here>
Strangely, although I've been looking all over the net I can't find any suggestions for this part of the water change.
I would like as many suggestions as you can provide.
  Thanks for any suggestions you may have.
Helen
<Thank you for writing. Bob Fenner>

Heater Hazard! 2/27/07
I have (actually had) a 75 gallon reef tank with a variety of soft corals (zoos, mushrooms, polyps, etc), a Jawfish, blue/red wrasse, Clarkii clown, Blue goby, and the cleaner crew.  It was beautiful! This past weekend when I came home, my heater was shattered in the tank, the top of my aquarium was cracked, the plastic was broken away, and there was a black substance splattered on the wall all the way up to the ceiling. <Oh boy, sorry to hear.>  All the snails and crabs were dead, all the corals were withdrawn and the wrasse was dead.  <Painful loss I'm sure.>  I did an immediate water change, not knowing if there were any chemicals in the water from the shattered heater, but I lost all the corals anyway. <Not unexpected unfortunately.> The temperature did fluctuate and dipped to around 72 degrees. <Left and right hook.>  The heater was not touching anything, and I can't figure out what happened. <Have seen this before, does happen from time to time, weakness in the glass gets worse over time with repeated heating and cooling until it gives way catastrophically.> I always unplug my heater for water changes and have never had a problem before.  <Not really avoidable, sort of a ticking time bomb.> I immediately removed all the dead creatures.  Since then, I have a consistent ammonia reading in my tank and have done daily water changes to try to save the fish. <Good.> Do you have any other suggestions regarding the ammonia?
<Doing all you can currently, the die off from the LR is probably causing the ammonia spike.>
Obviously I am completely devastated and am contemplating reverting back to a fish-only system because I can't afford to restock the tank. <Discouraging for sure, but I encourage you to continue, would have had the same problem in any tank.>  Any suggestions on how to avoid this in the future? <Avoid the glass heaters, got with one of the titanium ones.>  Do you think there are chemicals in my tank still? <Yes, run lots of carbon and Poly-Filters.>  Was it the temperature change, electric shock, or chemicals that killed everything? <Yes to all, a triple whammy.>  Are there heaters that don't contain damaging chemicals or will automatically shut off if there is a problem? <Putting it on a GFI outlet will help, although the bigger culprit is the metal inside the heater.>  Or are some heaters just doomed to shatter. <All glass heater have this possibility, go with a titanium one.>  Also do you think my live rock is damaged? <Only time will tell, see how it recovers.  I would bet on it being ok long term.>  Or the substrate filtration? Thanks! Amy
<Sorry to hear of your troubles.  Have faith you will be able to work through this and get back on the right track.>
<Chris>
Heater Hazard! 2/28/07
Thank you for your reply! I appreciate all your help.
Although frustrating, at least I know I am doing all I can do.   
Amy
<Stay on the path.>
<Chris>

Styrofoam, Next Time PVC, perhaps Starboard.   2/20/07
Hello!
<Hi there MJ!  Mich here.>
     I have searched high and low using specific search strings for this question.  "Is Styrofoam safe for inside the aquarium?"  I have a 200-gallon half cylinder that I placed some blocks of Styrofoam in to prop up the rockwork for aquascaping purposes.  I used 2" rigid wall insulation for this purpose.  The sticker on the insulation says that it is chemically inert.  My fish are healthy and my hermits love life.  Refugium is growing well.  Should I worry about this Styrofoam breaking down over time and releasing nasties into my tank?
<Sounds like a nice system.  To be perfectly honest I don't really know the answer to this question.  I would be a little leery as I have kept this type of insulation in the basement and over time it gets a little crumbly and nasty.  That being said, if it's not causing you any obvious problem right now I think I would just leave it alone.  RMF comments? 
<<Mmm, Styro is chemically inert... but does tend to fall apart too much to suit me. RMF>>
 I do have a suggestion for the future.  PVC piping is commonly used to support rockwork and I think is a better option as it won't react or breakdown. There are multiple ways of doing this from actually constructing frames to simply cutting large PVC piece with a saw.  There is also a product called starboard that is used in the hobby and is know to be inert which is good if you are lining the bottom of the tank.  Good luck!  -Mich>
MJ

Broken Thermometer 3/29/07
Hey WetWeb Media,
<Hi again.>
Real quick question I was mixing water today and had one of those floating thermometers made of glass in the trashcan and when I poured the water in it broke the thermometer. Should I throw out the water and the trash can. <Yes to the water, no to the can, just rinse it out very well.>
Because I think the thermometer had mercury in it.  <Unlikely, most now are alcohol based.> I still have the heater and power head. Should I even throw those out? <Nope, just rinse well.> Or am I being crazy. <Maybe a little crazy.>  Please write back as soon as you can.
Thanks Jeff
<Chris>
 
I need help, all my fish died – 3/28/07
I'll apologize in advance for the length of this.  I just want to give as much info as possible.
<No problem.>
I recently had a disaster with my tank.  It's 45 gal, 20 lbs of live rock, (I know it's not enough) and 1/2" crushed coral substrate.
<Also not enough.  A deeper bed could help you with denitrification.>  
I have a CPR BakPak 2 and Via Aqua canister filter for filtration.  The tank has been set up for 2 years now.  I haven't added anything new to the tank in over 6 months.  I had 1 tomato clown, 2 pajama cardinals, and 1 royal Gramma.  There are 3-5 hermit crabs and the live rock is covered with small feather dusters, green algae, and little bits of coralline.  It also had a couple of spaghetti worms which died also.
The crabs appear healthy and the feather dusters, while some larger ones seemed a little stressed, appear otherwise fine.
<This sounds like a very nice tank.  I am sorry you had a disaster.>
I was in the process of cleaning my tank.  The tank has always had a nitrate problem (usually 20) that I've not been able to fix
<This is not extremely high given that you are not trying to keep sensitive invertebrates.  A deep sand bed could help bring this down though.  And changing more water is the other option.>
and occasionally I've used a little Amquel+ before a partial water change. I've never had problems with Amquel+ before.  I did use some about 24 hours before I found all of the fish dead.  
<Hmmm…>
I tried the forum first, the Amquel+ had a strong rotten egg like odor to it which apparently isn't normal according to some posts.  
<This does not sound normal to me.  Rotten egg odor is hydrogen sulfide.  Can’t be good.>
I can tell you the ph in the tank plummeted to 7.4.
<Yikes!!>
I don't have readings for ammonia etc., from the time I found the fish as my first reaction was to change the water quickly to save the rest of the tank.
On Monday, the fish seemed healthy and were eating ok when I fed them before I left for work, about 12 hours after adding the Amquel+.  It was about 11 hours later I found them all dead.  There were no visible signs of any illness prior to this.  
<Illness does not sound likely.  This is environmental.>
So far, I've done 2 partial water changes and I plan on doing a 3rd this weekend.  I've also added some Seachem reef buffer.  I removed and completely cleaned the CPR BakPak. It is currently the only filtration.  I need to completely replace all the media in the VIA Aqua so for the moment it's disconnected.
What could have killed the fish and not the crabs and feather duster?
<It does sound like your Amquel+ was the culprit.  Crabs and annelids can be pretty hardy sometimes.  Fish have such high metabolisms they are very sensitive to toxins or oxygen depletion.  The manufacturer is not sharing the recipe for this newer product, but lists the composition of original Amquel as sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate.  Assuming this is a primary component of the new formula as well, It does sound like it broke down into some very unpleasant compounds, including hydrogen sulfide.  Here is the link to the safety information about the product:
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/Amquel+/index.htm
Although they say it is very safe, of course, they also say that deoxygenation of the water occurs after addition, and this is certainly one way the fish could be injured.  The hydrogen sulfide and pH drop could also be culprits.  I would not add any products like this to the tank to reduce nitrates.  Nitrates are much less dangerous than these chemicals!>
Is there something I should test for other than the normal water parameters?
<pH, alkalinity, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate should be sufficient.  The Sulphur should not be a problem as long as your pH and hardness are appropriate, especially since you have diluted with significant water changes.  The water changes should have taken care of any obscure compounds. >
Do I need new substrate and live rock?
<I would not replace the substrate and rock.  You might go ahead and add some more. >
I plan on waiting at least a few weeks, I'm afraid to even consider adding any fish until I figure out what went wrong.
<Yes, once your pH and other parameters are stable, and if your invertebrates continue to do well, I would add fish back one at a time.  The quarantine period for the fish should give you plenty of time to assess the stability of the tank.  I would not use Amquel+ in the tank anymore.  After a similar fish kill from another “safe” product that also deoxygenates the water, I have sworn off adding any proprietary formulations to my no matter how safe anyone says it is.>
Dawn
<Alex>  

A follow-up to "I need help, all my fish died 3/28/07" More on Amquel (and A.C.E. . ) poss. toxicity   3/31/07
Good afternoon Crew,
<Nicole>
I just wanted to add to this question, which Alex answered, in which someone named Dawn relayed the disaster that her 45 gallon reef tank experienced.
<Please do>
I myself have noticed this odor with the Amquel+ product, but when I first bought a bottle of it about a year ago, it had a similar smell.
The smell seems to have become concentrated as the product was expended. It leaves a very lasting odor - an uncapped bottle can quickly smell up a room! This makes me uneasy, but I do believe it is normal to some extent. Even Prime (in my opinion the best dechlorinator, the 50 ml dropper bottle makes dosing very simple - 3 drops per gallon)  has a section on the back where it says:
"Sulfur odor is normal."
<Yes>
Prime, however, has a very slight odor, in my opinion. The Amquel+ product definitely does not! I answer fish questions on another site, and have seen many cases where an addition of Amquel+ or A.C.E. . caused major disruption of the bio-filter, usually nitrites shooting up sky high.
<Yes>
I cannot say that it is due to the product alone, but it certainly was a catalyst. Although both Novalek and Jungle do offer other fine aquarium products - these particular ones, I would never recommend to anyone.
<Me neither>
Thanks for reading this, and for all that you do each day for hobbyists worldwide!
Nicole
<Thanks much for coming forward... with this lucid, useful input. Bob Fenner>

Oxidation of Bromide in SW... via high ORP?   4/11/07
Mr. Fenner,
   <Emmanuel>
  I work with coral reef fishes. May I ask your opinion about one specific issue?
   <Certainly>
  I have had trouble with our ozonizer. Despite keeping the ORP within a moderate range (280-320 mV), some of the mortality I have observed could be related to oxidation of bromide to bromine species (HOBr, OBr-). Do you have any experience and/or would you know any reliable source of information on that subject?
   <Interesting speculation... I thought about this last night for a bit... How might one test for this conversion to toxic halogen? Or, "look up" such information from extant studies? Perhaps an inquiry to a college chemistry dept., professor. I don't think this is a practical possibility at this range of RedOx however.>
  Thank you for your collaboration.   
  Regards,   
  Emmanuel
<Bob Fenner>

Sick Damsel... actually partial understanding, involvement in the marine aquarium interest, life...  4/17/04
Hi,
<Hello there>
I have a blue damsel that has had a white spot on his side for a few months.
We have isolated him in a hospital tank (2.5 gallons) for the last 1-2 months.  Although the spot occasionally looks smaller, it really has not disappeared.  He did have a few small spots on his fins, but they have gone away.  How do we know how long to hospitalize this fish, and will he get better?
<Mmm... a good question (causing me to consider...)... Likely this spot is "nothing to worry about"... a bit of mucus being produced by the fish due to a trauma in recent times (capture, holding, shipping...) and will "go" with time... For accurate diagnosis, anesthetizing the fish possibly, excising the spot or some part of it, microscopic examination, likely with some cursory staining... perhaps culturing... might reveal the nature better here>
On another note, we have lost about 6 fish in our 50 gallon tank.
<?!>
  We have tried to kill the parasites or ich by removing the hosts, we left the two hermit crabs in there but had no fish in the tank for over 2 weeks.
<... need more "fallow" time than this...>
We raised the temperature to about 85, and we have tried numerous treatments such as copper, table salt, Quick Cure, and API General Cure.
<Oh my!>
We recently bought two more damsel fish.  One is still alive but the other we lost yesterday, he was breathing quickly so and he was developing a whit line down the center of his back (on the nervous system?).
<Mmm... no... likely general stress period... You "have" something very wrong going on in/with this system...>
We tried to give him a fresh water dip with a dose of the Quick Cure,
<... toxic... the formalin component is a biocide... see WWM re>
but lost him during the treatment.
<... dangerous to use... for you as well... Needs to be "extremely" aerated during fish exposure...>
  Do you think we need to breach our tank and begin recycling it or is there some way to kill what is in there?  
Linda & Ben
<Uhh... you obviously need a better, fuller understanding of what you have here, what you're doing... How to begin to help you educate yourself? I don't know you, your previous experiences... but the dumping of the chemicals you list, the killing of livestock... leads me to consider that such a hodge-podge approach to the hobby is resultant from a lack of reading... or whatever mechanism/s "work" for you... You could (continue) to "get" advice (from stores, the Net?) and "gad-about" what you're doing... but... If you want to save time, understand... a good book or two... or a bunch of reading (start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/tanktroubleshting.htm
and on to the linked files above) on the Net/WWM may get you back to "start"... I do wish I could encourage you to "get into" the hobby sufficiently such that you would learn first thoroughly what you're up to, the consequences/alternatives to your choices, non-actions... Bob Fenner>

Toxic tank? Brass fittings, yep. 5/4/07
<Greetings, GrahamT with you...>
I have had a salt water for over 3 years. I recently moved and took the opportunity to change my 90 gallon FO tank to a FOWLR. I basically started over from scratch. Filled the tank with RO/DI water. I took all the bio balls out of my wet dry and now I have about 90 lbs of live rock and 40 lbs of live sand. My water parameters are as follows:
SG: 1.023
pH: 8.2
Temp: 80F
<A touch high, but only by one or two degrees, IMO.>
NH3: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 20
dKH: 10
Ca: 400ppm
The tank has been up for about 4 weeks. The rock was mostly cured so I saw no ammonia spike, a slight increase in nitrites and then it went back to 0.
<If you weren't monitoring the ammonia and nitrite, then you may have started the cycle over again with semi-cured live rock.>
I figured I was cycled so I added a cleaner shrimp and an orchid dotty back. About a week later, I added a Copperband and 2 clowns. When the snails I bought all died, I decided to buy a refractometer and discovered my SG was about 1.019. I raised it to 1.023. I think I did this too quickly because I have experienced a series of deaths.
<Possible, yep.>
First it was the shrimp, then the Copperband, then a clown and then the other clown. These all happened about one a day. I attributed the deaths to the salinity change.
<Maybe, but that is a little much for just the salinity to cause, IMO.>
So yesterday I
added another clown that I found at the LFS for $10. He seemed fine yesterday and even ate. When I came home today from work, I found him swimming in the corner above one of the powerheads and he hasn't moved positions in the tank all night. He just keeps swimming in the same spot and did not eat like he did the night before.
<I think you would benefit from taking it easy on the new additions until you straighten this out.>
So now I am thinking there must be something toxic in my water?
<Methinks, maybe.>
But what is weird is that the orchid Dottyback is still alive and he has been in the water the longest. He seems fine and ate tonight. I can also see the coralline starting to spread.
<These are indications of something right, true, but the Dottyback is resilient...>
Any ideas? Should I do a water change or just drain the tank and start over?
I am totally stumped...
<No, I think you need to look over the system and evaluate if there could be a contaminant, and if your basic water quality parameters are correct.>
I did think of two things while I was typing this...I installed a check valve on the return line when I set the system up this time. I couldn't find a plastic one so I used a metal one...brass probably.
<Ah-HA!>
Could this be leaching something into the water that would normally be flushed out but since this is a closed system causing me problems?
<Yup. Don't use any metal in your system. Titanium and stainless are considered the safest, but I would definitely lean away from using any metal in plumbing applications like this.>
Also I notice that in my sump (former wet dry) there is a little bit of a glossy film on top of the water...could that be something in the water that is killing everything in the tank?
<Mmm, if you mean it looks like a little bit of soap-scum, then no. That means you should be skimming your system. If you add some poly filter to the sump and let some stuck above the waterline, it should take care of that. I reiterate: get the tests done and stop adding livestock until you have answers. Remove the brass ASAP!
-GrahamT>
Please help,
Shawn

Cigarette smoking   - 03/26/2006
Hello, I operate an aquarium maintenance company, many of our "marine fish only tanks" are in professional offices.
I'm currently putting in an offer to set up a marine fish only tank in a restaurant / bar. I've never set up a tank in this sort of environment, have anyone Wet Web Media had any experience with this?
<Extensive. I helped start and run a service company of good size for nearly two decades>
Does the cigarette smoking have any effect on marine fish?
<Oh yes... very negative>
The restaurant will be family orientated, not like a sports bar.
Thanks for any info into this and of course your taking the time to reply.
Jim Jesko
<Just the smoke can be trouble... there are "hookah" like water filter devices you can run any pumped air through going into such systems... I encourage you to switch our chemical filtrants (activated carbon likely) once every two weeks or so. Keep the tank tops sealed as much as practical and way out of reach of the customers, and staff... tell all they are not to reach into or place anything into the tanks. Bob Fenner>

Big Mistake...How do I fix it? 100% Silicone, Toxic systems   6/13/06
I hate to bother you as I know you guys are busy helping people with real problems that can be solved but here goes anyway. I had a very badly designed sump setup (wet/dry u-tubed to a 10 gallon refugium u-tubed to a 10 gallon sump)
<Yikes... U-tubes are not to be trusted...>
that I tore down hoping to build something similar (no u-tubes, entirely in a 55) using the EPDM baffling I read about here. Well, after setting it up with the EPDM, I realized that the baffles were not going to stay in place, water pushing them over. I quickly used GE Silicone II to silicone the baffles into place. (I did not notice until way too late that it says "not for use on aquariums").
<Yikes... want to avoid types with "Mildewcides", other additives... Use only 100%...>
  I also only let it dry for about 12 hours.
<Needs 24...>
I have removed the sump completely while I allow the new silicone to cure. I performed about a 50% water change. All of my fish seem to be O.K. I have no filtration at all while the silicone is curing.  So, since I have lost every SPS in my tank and all of my soft corals look terrible and my 10-12" anemone has shriveled up to about 2" I was wondering what you think I should do to help alleviate the problems and get my tank ready to house corals again?
<... if it were me/mine, I'd cut away all the present Silicone and re-do this with 100%... Or, buy a new sump...>
How long should I wait before trying to add any corals again?
Thanking you in advance for the extreme wealth of knowledge you provide to me and many other people with this aquarium obsession.
<Do take the long view here... You don't want to have mal-lingering dread re toxicity issues... cut out this "door/window" Silastic and replace it. Bob Fenner>

Acrylic Nails and Aquariums 7/16/06
Dear Crew,
Can having acrylic finger nails poison my marine aquarium?
<Yes, make sure they completely dry before putting your hand in the tank.  Better yet would be elbow length gloves.>
Jenn
<Chris>

Jebo 72 gallon aquarium. Al and SW... toxic   8/21/06
This tank has a tight fitting aluminum hood with pre-cut holes for filter tubes, pump wires etc. Holes are too small to accommodate my hang on CPR skimmer.
I don't want to cut hood to accommodate this skimmer-anyone know of a hang on skimmer that will work with this type hood?
Thanks, Randy
<... Uhh, more trouble... aluminum and saltwater don't mix... This tank cannot be used with this fixture. Bob Fenner>

Re: Jebo 72 gallon aquarium, Al issue   8/21/06
Bob thanks for the heads up. Aluminum components of hood are painted, don't know if that makes a difference, otherwise plastic tank frame is cut to  
accommodate glass hinged lid. Guess I could have custom cut glass and use my  coral life light fixture off of my old 55 gal.
When you say toxic in what form? Gas, flaking corrosion into  tank?
<The last... can be real trouble... Bob Fenner>

Re: Jebo 72 gallon aquarium   8/21/06
Bob, I'm amazed at your ability to return e-mail so rapidly.
<I key quickly>
You are the only on line resource I trust and rely on for professional advice. I read and rely on your conscientious marine aquarist book for most everything-best 50  
dollars I have spent. I will keep an eye on the painted aluminum for any signs of corrosion.
<Ah, good... I would also employ a pad/unit of PolyFilter in your filter flow path here>
Found a way to mount by back mount skimmer, this lid component comes off  by removing two screws and allows mounting space-also less  metal to worry about!
<Very good>
Thanks so much for your valuable time and advice.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

OOOPPSS latex paint in the aquarium  9/9/06
Ouchimomma,
I guy's love your site, I was just painting and uhhhhh, well I dropped a paint brush covered in latex paint into my tank.....  I just preformed a full water change to get the paint out.  I didn't know what to do!!!!
Anyway, my clown is still swimming around and my corals look fine, but I want to know if there is anyway I can make there life, or hospis easier!!!!
Thank you so very very much,
Zach Alexander
<Mmm, all should be well... latex paints are largely non-toxic... though I would have done what you did... and/or moved the livestock elsewhere If I had facilities to do so. Too late to be concerned re using chemical filtrants to remove "carrier" at this point. Bob Fenner>

Gorilla Glue Reef Safe? 11/22/06
I searched the FAQs, but did not find the answer.
Forgive me if I overlooked it.
<No problems, thank you for looking before writing.>
And have a 72gal reef.  For it, I have a 20g polyethylene drum that I plan to store my makeup water in after it is processed by my RO/DI unit.
Unfortunately I have a continuous leak.  I have attempted PVC glue and silicone.  With no success.
The two will not bond with the polyethylene.  I tested super glue on the surface, but it pealed off also.  I tested Gorilla Glue, it pealed off of the smooth surface but bonded fine with the test portion that have been sanded.  My questions is, is the Gorilla Glue safe to use?  The Gorilla Glue Information Pack, as distributed by the manufacturer, states it is non-toxic.  I also looked at the MSDS sheet.  I would like to get a thumbs up or down from you guys!  I have linked (as opposed to attached to lighten you server load) the information pack and MSDS below.
Thank you for your help!
Information pack as distributed my the company:
http://www.gorillaglue.com/assets/download/GG_brochure.pdf
MSDS: http://www.newpig.com/en_US/content/current/MSD-V288.pdf;jsessionid=3T2GYWVAQPUT2CTGIQVSFEQKMZCCWJVC
<Well, Duane, you're in luck. People have been using Gorilla Glue for ages for coral frag placement and propagation purposes. Don't worry here, if it seals your leak, you're good. However, if you run into a similar problem ultimately with the Gorilla Glue, perhaps a 2 part epoxy, left to dry would work? Hope this helps you! -JustinN>

Stuck eel... coat hanger...  - 12/29/06
Hello again crew.
<Wayne>
This one I know is not a repeat question.
Today, my snowflake eel got in my overflow.  He seemed stuck, and tired.  I waited for 2 hours for him to come out on his own.  He didn't...So I decided to get him out myself.  I used a wire hanger, the kind that's painted.
I thought maybe there would be copper in the hanger?  Decided to take the chance anyway.  I got him out after about 30min of fishing.  He was definitely stuck.
Can the wire hanger have any ill effects on my tank?
WS
<Mmm... don't know... am pretty sure they're made mainly of steel/iron... the paint, coating? I would be running a pad of PolyFilter, possibly some GAC in your filter flow path just to be on the safe side... and adding screening to keep that Eel in place. Bob Fenner>

Help!! Broken Thermometer   12/4/06
Hey everyone!
<Hey ya!  Mich here.>  
I have somewhat of an emergency!
<OK>
I was tooling around beneath my tank today. I noticed some, what look to be, rust spots. I had a floating glass thermo that broke when I moved my tank some time ago. I was sure I got all the beads up, so I'm not even sure that's what this is from. The spots are on the very bottom of a 3 to 4 inch aragonite live sand bed. Which means there are probably more of whatever it is, with in it. What do I do?!
<Leave it alone.>
I really hope I don't have to tear the whole tank apart.
<I would not.>
I run PolyFilter and carbon all the time. My coral (softies, one LPS, and a LTA), snails, hermits, shrimp and cucumber are all doing well.
<Very good.>
No fish.
<That's OK>
There are serpent stars and scud/Mysis shrimp everywhere. My snails breed regularly. My water checks fine, I don't know if that would effect what I test for anyway. Should I hold out and see if there will be any ill effects?
<Yes.  I would not disturb the tank.>
The spots are small, there are about 15 of them. Right now they are the size of a pencil point. I am pretty sure it is rust.
<It may be rust, it may not be.  I wouldn't be worried if it is rust.  Your corals are not showing any sign of stress.  There are places that actually dose with iron in order to keep kelp in their tanks.  So take a deep breath, relax and enjoy your tank.>
Thank you so much!!
<You are quite welcome.>  <ps "I"s instead of "i"s please.>
rob

Re: Some Inputs on Dying Snails Query  12/30/06
Hi everyone!
I just want to comment on the problem of the dying snails (original query attached below).  I had this problem before in my fully stocked reef tank, everything was ok, except for the gastropods, who seemed to lose grip and balance, fall down to the gravel, unable to right themselves and dying after a few days.  
I teach undergraduate invertebrate zoology, and I soon made a connection between one additive and the gastropod deaths: Magnesium sulfate and Magnesium chloride.  In the lab, either of these compounds is used to slowly anesthetize and 'relax' aquatic invertebrates to allow for easy dissection.  In my case, magnesium overdose was traced to the poor quality sea salt I was using at the time ( I know better now). I shifted to natural seawater for a time, and then used a quality sea salt, and my snail problems have stopped. Magnesium toxicity may also be brought about by dosing (or overdosing) on magnesium supplements.  It just may be that certain gastropods are more sensitive to this compound, become anesthetized, and become so relaxed that they asphyxiate, or otherwise become vulnerable to predators in the tank. I never did any full scale experimentation to prove or isolate Magnesium as the culprit, all I'm saying that it's worth looking into.
Hope this little info helps!
Best regards,
Richard (Manila, Philippines)
<Thank you for this. BobF>

Dead fish, toxic tank, moving livestock (Tridacna) ASAP    1/5/07
Dearest crew,
<Hi Carla, Mich here.>
Tragedy has struck, and this reader is frantic.  My initial hypothesis is that a powerhead in my tank jammed/overheated/otherwise malfunctioned, and my roommate called me at work saying there was an electrical burny smell in my bedroom, and she was afraid our apt. was burning down.  I instructed her to unplug the tank, and I'd be home in an hour...
<Wise.>
I returned to find two dead fish (and now one very dejected girl- I've had them for over a year).
<So sorry.>
However, as soon as my friend gets here to help me deal with the bodies (I'm squeamish... how is it that I can butcher a flounder without a second thought in the kitchen, but not scoop my little friends into a net?
<Better to get them out ASAP as the bodies are just further polluting the system.>
Because they were my little friends, I suppose. ANYWAY...)
<Understandable, but not helping the remaining animals in your care.>
My thoughts are now on the remaining Tridacna clam, mushroom polyps, hermit crabs, etc. still in the toxic water that killed my fish.  
<Good thinking.>
Luckily, I have another tank set up in my living room (was going to move them all to larger quarters...) which has been aging for a long while (several months... I'm a procrastinator... and the move task was daunting and now urgent).
<Yep!>
My main concern is this- the clam.  How can I move it, and the largish chunk of rock it's anchored itself to, into the new tank without either exposing it to air or introducing the deadly water from the old tank?  
<Exposure to air will not kill your clam, though I would try to keep it to a minimum.  I would move the entire rock. Do not remove the clam from the rock. I repeat, do not remove the clam from the rock.  Place the rock and clam in a container with water from the contaminated tank and then add water from your new system.  Then dump some of the water and add more from the new system.  I would do this process relatively quickly, say within 30 minutes or so.  It's ok if a minimum amount of water from your old system is introduced; just try to minimize the volume.>  
A response ASAP would be wonderful, as you can imagine I'm sweating over the fate of my remaining wet pets. *sniff*
<Sorry for your loss.  It always hurts to lose a friend, in this case more than one.>  
Thanks ever so much again,
<Good luck and my condolences.  -Mich>
Carla

Re: Dead fish, toxic tank, moving livestock (Tridacna) ASAP    1/5/07
Thanks so much for your quick advice!  
<Hi Carla, you are most welcome, sorry for you problems.>
Blooper and Dex have been removed to bluer waters (i.e...... the dumpster)
<Sorry about Dex and Blooper.  ...bluer isn't the adjective I was thinking of here!>  
and I'm moving the live rock and following your clam transferal instructions.  Hadn't planned to remove the clam from his rock, but am relieved that I don't have to attempt some complicated plastic bag procedure/underwater move.  It's in a bucket next to the new tank, and I'm quickly but gradually mixing the water.  
<Excellent.>
Will let you know how things turn out!  
<Please do, include my name in the subject line if you don't mind.>
One of the powerheads was most certainly the culprit, as it smelled strongly of electrical burnout.
<Happens.>
Will it be safe to move some/all of the sand to the new tank, or will it contain residuals of whatever killed my fish (not sure if it was an electrical shock or a chemical contamination from the powerhead malfunction)?  
<Hard to tell the cause, but I think I would wait on the sand transferal.  Do a couple of large, like 75% or more water changes.  It may be possible to transfer the sand, but I wouldn't do it anytime within the next month or so.  I would watch and see what kind of die off you experience within this tank and see if you get regrowth.  ...Though being a procrastinator maybe I should say sometime in the next two weeks so it happens sometime in the next couple of months...hehehe!>
I'd planned to combine the sand from the old and new tank to create a deep sandbed... would like to keep the old sand and its good critters if you think this would be wise.  
<Yes, in general I think this is a good idea, but would be hesitant to do it immediately for fear of possible contamination.  At most I would take a cupful just to seed the new tank, this would allow for growth but minimizing potential complications in the new system.>
I'll be changing the filter media (Fluval canister) for fresh carbon, Chemi-pure, phos-ban, and poly filters (if I have any left...).  Anything else I should keep an eye on?  Obviously testing the tank regularly for the next couple days/weeks would be a good idea... and crossing my fingers?
<All these things, coupled with a large water change or two would be helpful.  Good luck!  -Mich>

Rusty well water, dying snails, need for testing and more reading  1/5/07
Hello! Bob
My name is Karl Douville
<Hello Karl, My name is Mich and I'll be your WWM Crew member today!>
I am contacting you because I have a 180-gallon reef fish tank and my tank does not look the way I always thought it should look like!
<Umm OK, how did you think it should look?>
It looks pretty healthy but I know something is just not right!
<OK.  And you know this how?>
I started my tank has been running for 10 month including the cycling period.
<OK, still a very young tank.>
I have had experience before with the same tank!  On city water.
<OK.  Yikes, city water!>
I just siphoned my live sand and got a lot of sediments or organic matter, but I’m not sure if it was a good idea, because I was told to not stir up the live sand?
<Is good to clean areas of the sandbed, just not the entire sandbed at one time.>
My nitrates are still up! About 20 ppm
<Higher than desired.>
I am using deep well water.  (It has rust in it, but I don’t think that is my problem.)
<May want to reconsider this.>
I don’t use R.O. but I did have a really good ultraviolet with three good quality filters!
<UV will kill bacterial/microfauna present in water, but will not have any effect on nitrate levels.  RO water should not have any measurable nitrates; the same cannot be said for well water.  Have you tested you well water for nitrates?  How often do you have the wet chemistry of your well water professionally analyzed?>
I have done lots of test iron, ph, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and KH GH are all good, but yet to figure out my calcium levels because of an expired test kit witch read way to high to believe. It had no end to the test!
<Time to invest in a new Calcium kit.>
I have had casualties with snails at the start and I have not bought anymore
since that.  (35 snails perished)
<That's quite a few.>
The snail would be fine in the bag but as soon as put them in they would slither around and then start falling on their backs and I kept flipping them over and over! Some liked the glass but could not go on the sand or they flipped!
<I actually suspect you Magnesium levels are too high, possibly having the effect of a muscle relaxant on your snails.  Calcium levels are also likely to be low.  Would be wise to invest in these two tests.>  
That’s why I thought of the sand being the problem! And I cleaned it!
<I don't think this is the problem.>
My live sand is 4 inches deep and layered from big shell on the bottom to medium size in the middle and finer aragonite on top!  There has been no hydrogen sulphite bubbles or blackish looking sand. There is not plenum, but I put large shells on the bottom to create natural a plenum.
<Would be better to have a 4 inch bed of consistently fine aragonite sand or a deeper bed of the mixed grain.  Please start reading here:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm>
I have seen copepods, arthropods, worms and none threatening bristle worms (blue and orange) in my sand.
<The threat of bristle worms are overrated.>
I have 3 cleaner shrimps, several hermit crabs, 2 tomato clowns, 1 yellow tang, 1 camel shrimp, 1 flame angel, 1 algae blenny , assorted mushrooms, small toad stool, some polyps that are doing pretty good and 1 new giant white carpet anemone which is not doing really good.  
<Watch the anemone, has the potential to have a large negative effect on your system.>
I hope you can diagnose my problem!
<Check your magnesium and calcium levels.>
Thank you for time!
<Welcome, You seem to be missing some key facts here...I recommend you spend some time reading either on the WWM or perhaps invest in a book such as The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert M. Fenner.  -Mich>

Zinc in epoxy 7/5/05
Hi WWM Crew,
First I would like to thank you for your help. I recently bought and read (in about 2 days) Bob Fenner's book and am really enjoying the learning process. I got excited about aquascaping after reading that part of the book went out to the local hardware store and bought epoxy putty. I ended up with two kinds. One is Ace brand plumbers epoxy which I think will be safe, as I found reference to it being used successfully by others on the web. I ended up liking this one better and bought more of it. It is the majority of what I used. (About 5 10' sticks.) The second is PC marine epoxy. This one I am worried about because it lists zinc sulfide on the materials (5-10% of the composition). I only used one 5' stick of this. I unfortunately already used both of them to build a fairly large rock structure for my 55 gal fish and invert tank. My question to you is: Do you think that the PC epoxy will be harmful?
<The Zinc is to be avoided... but over some time it should be of little to no consequence. I would place a pad of PolyFilter in your filter flow path for now... to remove this metal as it comes into solution from the Epoxy>
What if I cover the exposed areas of PC epoxy with the other Ace brand epoxy?
<A worthwhile suggestion, yes>
And finally, if it should not go in the tank do you think that breaking down and reusing the rocks (coral skeleton) that were exposed to it would be OK?
Possibly with new and extra carbon in the system?
<I do think you are right here>
I presently have 2 large hang on filters, a UV filter, new (3 days old) Aqua C remora pro skimmer, and an undergravel filter. I change 10% of the water twice a week using Waikiki aquarium filtered water.
<Ah, "the gathering place", O'ahu>
I tried calling the company and am waiting for a call back, although not sure they will be able to answer my questions. I did search this site extensively and although I found reference to a link regarding epoxy, I could not locate the link.
Thank you so much. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say.
Elizabeth
<I would not be overly concerned here... with the size, type system, availability of good source water, use of chemical filtrants... the Zinc should be a small concern soon. Bob Fenner>

Re: zinc in epoxy 7/6/05
Hi again,
In reference to the attached email regarding epoxy putty.
I received a call from PC marine. They assured me that the product, once cured, was harmless in a saltwater fish tank. The said that once cured that it will not allow any water entry or react with anything.
They also said that they had given this advice to others and had them use it successfully. I am still a little hesitant and would love your opinion.
Thanks!
Elizabeth
<You did get my email from this morning? I am in agreement with the statements above. This putty should be safe once cured. Bob Fenner>

Re: zinc in epoxy 7/6/05
Hi Bob,
<Elizabeth>
Thank you so much for your response. I was thinking that I would have to break down my big rock structure that I spent so long on. For some reason I did not receive your response to my first email, but I went to WWM and found it.
<Bizarre... the Net...>
I will buy some poly filters and put my masterpiece in!
<Ah, good... get some help lifting!>
Thank you very much for what you have done for this hobby. I recommend your book/site to every person I see in the pet store buying unsuitable livestock.
Aloha,
Elizabeth
<Ahh, thank you for your kind, encouraging words, good works. Bob Fenner>

Potential Disaster (HELP!) Real trouble with batteries falling into a marine sump! 7/14/05
Dear WWM Crew,
    I may have experienced a potential disaster.  I had a battery powered air pump sitting on a shelf near my reef tank.  I had left a window open and a wind came up.  The shade on the window blew back and knocked the air pump into my open plenum sump.  The air pump wasn't on and because of some overhaul maintenance the sump wasn't connected to my reef at the time that it happened.  It may have sat in there several hours while I was out to dinner.  When I found it I pulled the thing out and from the battery compartment drained a black liquid.
<Yikes>
I grabbed a cup and dipped a little out before it dissipated.  What damage did this cause? All my equipment in the sump still works but I didn't connect it back to the main reef.  What should I replace?  What else (if anything) can I do?  Any help would be appreciated greatly.
Thanks,
Andrew S.
<I would vacuum, drain all the water out of the sump, add a unit of Chemi-Pure and PolyFilter and allow the replaced water to recirculate through this a couple of days, then try placing a "test fish" in the sump for a few days more... Bob Fenner.

Magnetic tank cleaner/dead tangs 7/13/05
Long time listener, first time caller...
Last night I used a magnetic tank cleaner for the first time, and I had quite a bit of algae on the glass (55 gal tank).  This morning, I had 2 dead tangs (1 yellow, 1 yellow-eyed black tang).  Everything else seems to be OK (arrow crab, couple dozen blue-legged hermits, 2 percula clowns, emerald crab, 2 yellow-tail blue damselfish).  PH, salinity, nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia all look fine.  Could the tank cleaning cause the death of the tangs?
<Mmm, not likely. RMF>
(btw - great site!  Sorry for emailing, but I searched and couldn't find anything in the existing FAQ that matched my question, but I'm sure you've answered it and I just can't find it)
--Jeff
Never mind...  Wasn't the cleaning, just a coincidence.  Ich.   
<Not the magnets... RMF>

Live rock contamination with soap 8/3/05
Hello all, I am a LFS owner and I am not a marine biologist and have a customer with what I think is a very serious problem.
<No marine biologists here either, just dedicated experienced aquarists, but I am quite sure we are only going to back up what you already know...>
My new customer recently moved (1 month ago) into my area and bought some fish (Pearlscale butterfly and Sailfin tang) which had been in my main tank for weeks and were doing excellent. Within a week he lost both as well as his large clownfish. (clownfish died first). So being a purchase of 7 days or less I gave a refund and said to watch for some type of bacterial problem. I told him to wait a week before buying anymore fish until he could see no other problems (he still had some damsels).
<Kudos on having such a generous guarantee!  Bacterial problems are rare but I do agree with your advice, although I do think I would have questioned them more and tested there water since these fish were established in captivity and healthy.>
A week later he shows up and ask for 2 more pearlscales as well as a valentine puffer and a spotted file. Well low and behold a week later and the Pearlscale are dead. I decided to go see his tank and could not believe what I was seeing. His live rock which he states is about 2 years old (4 large pieces) looked to be having a massive die off, all the hair algae was turning white (about 85%) and his purple was turning grey. And the tank glass even had a whitish slime on it. I have never seen anything like this and being I use your sight for my personal learning I hoped to get your help. <Yikes!!  Isn't it amazing that they didn't realize on their own that it might be a bad idea to add fish?!?!?>
My first thought was bacterial but also note after talking in great detail with both him and his wife I found out 2 things. The tank was torn down, cleaned and reset up 1 month ago. I then pressed them to explain how it was cleaned. Thinking toxicology I asked if they used bleach or anything of that nature and was told no, but after a few more questions I was told they used lite dish detergent to clean off some of the rock. <Yowza!  There is obviously no way to get all of this stuff out of the porous structure of the rock, and even if it isn't toxic on it's own, who knows how it is affecting the water chemistry!>
At this point I asked how quickly the white took over the tank and got no straight answer. Being at a loss as to what to do I did dose their tank with Maracyn hoping to slow this down if it is bacterial but my gut tells me its toxicology and figure they should probably clean the liverock bare with a toothbrush but wished to ask a pro before I tell them anything else to do.
<It sounds to me that these people knew they did something wrong, but hoped that it would just go away and didn't want to fess up to it.  I would recommend that you offer to hold any animals that are still alive at your store (with no guarantee) while the tank is re-established.  All of the equipment should be thoroughly cleaned with fresh water and the live rock (as well as any other porous media or substrates like sand, ceramic filter media, filter pads, etc.) should be discarded and replaced.>
So I am asking you guys since I think you're pros and have found you to be dead on compared to asking other LFS owners who I must say I think have no clue and guess at a lot of there answers. Any ideas are greatly appreciated and a thank you in advance for any help and for having such a helpful site. Jeff S.  <Thanks for the kind words and good luck with this difficult situation.  AdamC.>

Silica Beads - Late Reply - 08/02/05
Hi Folks,
Have a very beautiful fish only aquarium.  The air dryer for my ozonizer burst open and about 100 beads fell into my sump. I cannot get them out until tomorrow night (have to buy a water vac). I've read up and down about the silicates in your FAQ's and all points to the fact that they aren't toxic (at least for a short time) to my little friends but do I have the time to wait until tomorrow night?
Best Regards,
Jeffrey
<<Hello Jeffrey...Sorry for the late reply.  As you've surely surmised by now, the tank will be fine till you can remove the beads.  Regards, EricR>>

A Small Piece of Metal In a Large Volume of Water-Problem? 8/1/05
Hello crew, I hope all is well.  I have a few quick ones.  I'm in the setup stage of my tank, and I was filling up my bio ball chamber with balls, and a small staple from the shipping bag fell in and has disappeared.  Will this staple corrode and kill my livestock?  Maybe I'm just being way too paranoid, but I would hate to kill a few hundred dollars in fish over a damn staple.  
<Not overly paranoid...but no need to worry. One small staple in a large volume of water will not make too much of a difference.>
Also, I hooked up my external pump to my bulkhead of my glass sump and filled it with water.  It's 3/4" and the hole is a 1 1/2" which some bulkheads call for but the ones I bought don't say and the hole seems to be a little large for this particular one.  The bulkhead has a slow leak, will silicone fix this or should I try a different brand bulkhead?
<I'd be inclined to try a new bulkhead, myself.>
Finally,  which do think will offer better buffering capacity, Florida crushed coral, or Seaflor special grade?  Thank you again. Mike
<Well, Mike- both are good products, and are equal to the task. For most applications, the Seaflor Special Grade is a better choice, however. Good luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>

Aluminum and Saltwater 1016/05
Hi, I read on one of your replies that aluminum was not compatible with a saltwater aquarium (i.e. as a support above the aquarium for a light). Is this because the aluminum is toxic to the fish or because the salt corrosion will quickly deteriorate the aluminum? 
<In my opinion, aluminum is fine to use outside of the aquarium and away from water contact. In fact, many commercial lighting fixtures incorporate aluminum. However, contact with salt water will corrode aluminum and aluminum can dissolve into the water and is toxic.>
Also, my aquarium is a 40 gallon FOWLR tank that is only 14" deep and 40" long, and I would like to add an anemone (LT or Sebae) Would a 250w Metal Halide Lamp 6" above the water, along with my 65w 50/50 PC light, be overkill? Thanks for your help, Dustin 
<I would not use more than 175w MH in such a shallow tank. In fact, although I almost recommend halides for anemones, one or two additional PC's would probably do fine in such a shallow tank. Best Regards. AdamC.>

Additives  10/6/05
Hello, <Hello>
I have a 30 gallon saltwater tank that's 9 months old.
It has 20 lbs live rock with coralline algae of all colors growing very well. <Good>
I have a Corallife Aqualite lights (2x65W, 10000K and Blue Actinic).
I have one clown and a red-striped blenny, 10 Astrea snails, 10 blue-legged hermits, 2 common hermits, a big, black striped brittle star (6in spread out - disk the size of a quarter), a few tiny brittle stars, and some random brittle worms and other kind of worms.  I have some nice green star polyps that are propagating nicely, some Zoanthids? (soft coral polyps), Sargasso, green Caulerpa, and red fern algae stuff.  All of these are relatively small.
I have a powerhead and a hang-on-the-back-BioWheel-filter system (Marineland), and I have two airstones.  pH is right around 7.9-8.1.  I do not have a way of testing anything else, so this might be my problem.  Two weeks ago I stupidly added a multivitamin to my tank on the suggestion from a website.
Several days later, the first of my three peppermint shrimp died, then the next day the second, followed by a brittle worm.  The corals closed up and look kind of gangly.
I changed as much water as possible and cleaned the filters.  The last shrimp hung on, but died.
The corals look like they are slowly coming around but they still look bad.  I think the multivitamin did it.  Nothing else looks affected.  Other than not adding a multivitamin EVER AGAIN, what can I do to help out my tank?  Are there any problems?  The brittle star spends a lot of time by the corals - is he eating them? <They are supposedly reef safe although I've read reports they may occasionally "nibble" on soft coral, but generally reef safe.  As to the vitamins, any possibility you OD'd?  Is this vitamin supplement one designed for marine tanks?  If not, then that could be a source of the problem your having.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks in advance, <You're welcome>
Armand from Georgia

Confusion about copper, ignorance costs 10/18/05
Hey guys, since I can't find an exact answer after searching the forums I'm emailing you. I know when you use copper it doesn't kill the parasites hanging in the tank but only prevents them from going onto the fish from a thickened mucous layer.
<Uh, no>
Does the same go for formalin and malachite green, or do they kill the parasites (and eggs) through out the tank AND on the fish?
<Both, all kill intermediate forms while they are active, seeking hosts... not while on the hosts generally or in encysted "resting" stages>
My B/F's appetite seems to be suppressed after treating with formalin, is this normal? 
<Oh yes... toxic to the max.>
He was eating pretty good before I put the formalin in, now he's barely eating. He has thread like feces also, should I treat for a bacterial infection? 
<.....>
And which med is best for that?
<...>
Thanks so much
<Read... on WWM, elsewhere re... stop poisoning your livestock until you know what you're doing. Bob Fenner>

Nicotine deadly to saltwater fish? Oh yes, To All Fish 11/3/05
I am a smoker and sjust (just) started a saltwater tank a couple a mounths (months) ago. (The) the started fish did just fine but now that am getting some more expensive fish the are dying. i (I)
<Please people... use your spelling/grammar checkers to learn proper English!>
have to (two?) clown fish that haven't died and two pajama fish that do just finr (fine). i (I) have lost a yellow tang and a Emperor Angel Juv just this morning and i (I) have last couple fish in last couple a weeks. (Any) any thought on what might be killing them.(?) (Water) water has been tested and was ok.
<Nicotine (and a few other compounds from tobacco) are very toxic to most marine life, all fishes... do wash your hands, arms thoroughly and still get/use some elbow length gloves... if the house/office where the tank is has little new air circulation and air entraining/pumping devices... I would use in-line air filters as well... Bob Fenner>
 
Cypermethrin - 12/15/2005
hello there,
<Just skip to the bottom. Oh, and Hello.>
You have heard of the idiot award, give it to me!!
We fogged the house this evening for ticks, using raid max fumigator, the active ingredient is Cypermethrin.
You guessed it!!
I followed the directions and covered the aquarium with a sheet. Some of the chemical must have gotten past the sheet and into the water.
All of the invertebrates are no longer with us. It seems that the refugium has been wiped out too.
The snails, fish and corals seem to be o.k.
we lost 2 fire shrimp ,one skunk cleaner and a few hermits,
Luckily there was not much in the tank, the six line wrasse, Molly miller blenny, serpent star and few corals seem to be o.k.
The big question is:
Is this tank now junk? will the chemical dissipate? will the live rock soak up the chemical.
I am hoping, being that  the invertebrates are the most delicate, the poisoning was slight.
I imagine the bacteria in the tank has been affected, The refugium was full of life, copepods, amphipods, spaghetti worms, crabs and many other inhabitants. Not looking to lively at the moment.
Do you have any information on anything like this, I hope I am the only one who has ever emailed such unfortunate news.
I emailed the manufacturer for any info they may have. I also checked the MSDS and did a few web searches.
WWM archives have helped with many of my questions.
If anything is learned from all of this, I hope some information or a warning of some kind could be passed on to others
I hope someone can learn from my mistake.
any info on this matter would be appreciated
thanks for your time
Peter
<Peter,
I'll spare you any jokes because this isn't funny at all. I'll keep looking for more specifics but what I've found really only has a major concern for contact with water, especially aquatic life. States that it may cause long term "adverse effects " on them. Also mentions thermal decomposition products and the release of  hydrogen CYANIDE. There's a contact # but it goes to London. Hope it will help some in your course of action. I'll chime in again later with anymore. - Josh http://www.gharda.com/products/msds/Cypermethrin100EC.PDF>

Re: Cypermethrin on Aquatic Organisms - 12/16/2005
Hello there,
<Peter. Back now with a little less rush. Wanted to at least send the small bit of info. I had to help what it could.>
You have heard of the idiot award, give it to me!!
<It's in the mail my friend!>
We fogged the house this evening for ticks, using raid max fumigator, the active ingredient is Cypermethrin. You guessed it!I followed the directions and covered the aquarium with a sheet.
<In the future I recommend something nonporous>
Some of the chemical must have gotten past the sheet and into the water.
<If you can breath through it, it can pass.>
All of the invertebrates are no longer with us. It seems that the refugium has been wiped out too. The snails, fish and corals seem to be o.k. we lost 2 fire shrimp ,one skunk cleaner and a few hermits. Luckily there was not much in the tank, the six line wrasse, molly miller blenny, serpent star and few corals seem to be o.k. The big question is:
Is this tank now junk? Will the chemical dissipate? Will the live rock soak up the chemical.
<Could not find direct reference for the LR absorption, but it does have a half life in the water. The effect is worse in closed systems (as with all things), adheres to suspended organic matter and bottom sediment. Half life in soils from 30 days to 8 weeks.>
I am hoping, being that the invertebrates are the most delicate, the poisoning was slight.
<Unfortunately the LC50 (amount of a chemical that will kill 50% of a test population) is extremely low for aquatic organisms at less than 1 ppm. More specifically in the range of .00?.>  
I imagine the bacteria in the tank has been affected. The refugium was full of life, copepods, amphipods, spaghetti worms, crabs and many other inhabitants. Not looking to lively at the moment.
<Yes. LC50 for inverts found to be around .000?>
Do you have any information on anything like this, I hope I am the only one who has ever emailed such unfortunate news.
<First I've heard of.>
I emailed the manufacturer for any info they may have. I also checked the MSDS and did a few web searches.
<Good follow up.>
WWM archives have helped with many of my questions. If anything is learned from all of this, I hope some information or a warning of some kind could be passed on to others. I hope someone can learn from my mistake.
<I'm sure many will think twice now.>
Any info on this matter would be appreciated.
Thanks for your time,
Peter
<You may end up ok here, but I wouldn't risk it. If possible QT all still living and let the tank run fallow. I think one suitable sized vessel would be fine as they aren't contagious. Any adverse effects would probably show in the gills first (strongly absorbed here). Would eventually look like standard poisoning or neurological disorder. Keep up pristine water quality and diet, wait it out. You're probably going to see a bloom of filamentous alga in the main, and can probably expect a cycle. After at least a month, though I'd wait the full 8 weeks (or whatever the cycle takes) you could test the tank with some crabs. I'd give them a week to be sure. If all is stable at that time, you could gradually add your fish (not all at once). I hope this will help. In hindsight I realize the first message I sent was near useless as I'm sure your research already told you as much. - Josh>

Re: Cypermethrin on Aquatic Organisms - 12/17/2005
Hello there,
<Hi Peter.>
Thanks you so much for the reply, the information you sent me was indeed helpful.
<Very glad it was.>
I used it along with other Google searches for Cypermethrin. It seems that the chemical effects the central nervous system causing paralysis and death along with some other nasty side effects along the way to the end. The product is not water soluble and can be broken down by aerobic digestion. I am glad to hear that it will leave the system, that was one of my concerns.
I called the S C Johnson hotline. In their vast knowledge, I was informed to run filtration (never would have thought), well anyway they said that would remove the product from the water.
I went to the LFS  and purchased a poly pad for the sump, I told the lady why I needed it, and once again, there was that look. After a bit of the third degree and a little reassuring that the chemical will come out I was on my way.
<At least she didn't say "Throw in some Cleaner Shrimp and you'll be fine." Do keep an eye on the PolyFilter for its color change and remove it promptly when exhausted.>
Now you may call me crazy, stupid or any other adjective that may fit, but, it is not as bad as it seems.
<Nah, the award should suffice.>
In total which  really makes no sense to me we lost two Red Leg Hermits, two Fire Shrimp and 1 Skunk Cleaner. The Brittle Star made a meal of one of the Fire Shrimp, at the time I thought it to be his last supper. I removed the other deceased from the tank wondering what else would be affected. I looked in the refugium and found very little life, some crabs were lying on the bottom, a bristle worm was out in some macro doing the funky chicken dance, the spaghetti worms were not moving, a few dead amphipods and no sign of a copepods.
So now some time has passed, with the poly pad and aggressive skimming. I was going to do a large water change and decided against it.
<I'd do it.>
The reason being is the tank is very much alive now.
<Excellent, a water change would only help, but as it seems may not be needed.>
In the refugium, copepods and amphipods are on the move, the spaghetti worms are back to being spaghetti, crabs are alive and moving around in the macro, I have seen a few other worms and some crazy looking critter, kind of looks like an orange slug, the size of a long grain of rice. Maybe the first sign of mutation.
<Needs at least one reproductive cycle.>
I am wondering if the chemical had paralyzed some of the inhabitants, not being concentrated enough to kill.
<Hmm, kind of like an Opium den I guess.>
Just one of those things I'll never know. I tested the water, ammonia and nitrite were minimal,
<Not a good sign. Hope that doesn't get worse. I would do the water change.>
nitrate was elevated as it has been, hoping the deep sand bed in the refugium will eventually take care of it.
<Keep an eye out for the beginning of a cycle.>
So it looks like the tank is on its way back already. I am going to wait before adding new shrimp or anything else. I don't want to think about the possibility of the tank crashing. I can purchase live shrimp from the bait store and use them for guinea pigs, plus get to go fishing with the rest.
I am taking this so far close encounter as a wake up call.
thanks so much for your time and help
<Glad all is going well thus far.>
Happy holidays
Peter
<And to you. - Josh>

Metal clamps and marine systems
Hi Guys,
I have a small pump in my sump that is running my UV sterilizer. I have a stainless steel hose clamp holding the tubing on to the pump. Will that affect my water quality, and if so do you have any suggestions.
Thanks,
Stephen G. Mule
<Such metal clamps can be problematical, or not... depending on their placement, likelihood of rusting, falling into parts of the system. I would go with non-metal clamps. Bob Fenner>

PC pin corrosion   1/4/06
How are you guys? <Great>
I have quick question about pin configuration on the Corallife power compact fixture. Is there any type of substance that you can put on the pins of a bulb when you change them to prevent the pins from corroding(?) inside the end caps? <I spray a small amount of WD40 on mine and wipe off excess.  James (Salty Dog)> <<Mmm, this is a local co... the product is diesel fuel, kerosene and a perfuming agent... I would NOT spray this around aquariums. RMF>>
Thanks,
Greg <<I use a smear of Silastic (100% Silicone Sealant)... wipes away enough for initial contact, allows easy removal. Bob Fenner>>

"PC Pin Corrosion"  - 1/6/06
Bob,
Noticed your comment on this query.  My hopes were that no one would actually spray this stuff over or near the tank realizing what it is composed of.  I spray the pins in my workshop wiping any excess fluid from the pins before reinstalling in the fixture and back on to the tank.  The Marineland clear silicone oil works well also (used on the "O" rings in the magnum filters). 
<I see>
I do appreciate comments as such and DO let me know as I do not want to degrade the excellent information that is provided by the WWM.
Regards,
James
<Will do. BobF>
Metal Shavings In Reef Tank - 01/08/06
Hello Crew!
<<Howdy!  EricR here.>>
It has been a long time since I've written, because I've been too busy enjoying my reef tank, which has been running smoothly for one year now.
<<Good to hear...>>
The reason why I'm writing is because I think that I just did something really stupid.
<<Uh oh>>
I just purchased 6 blue LED Lunar Lights for a nice moonlight effect in my tank when the metal halides go off.
<<Ok>>
My canopy has a shelf approximately 14" above the tank, and it runs the entire length of the 7' tank.  Above the shelf is another 14" of storage space, most of which is currently empty.  The shelves are removable 3/4" thick plywood panels which rest within a rebate that runs along the inside perimeter of the solid wood shelf frame.  I removed one panel at a time and screwed the Lunar Lights into place on the floor.  I did this for each panel until I got to the last one.  The last panel holds two metal halide lamp ballasts, and the lights were on, so I decided to screw the Lunar Light onto the underside of the shelf with the panel in place.  All was going well, until the screw driver in my electric drill began to slip, and one or two small metal shavings came off of the inside of the screw head and fell in to the tank.
<<Of small concern.>>
The quantity of material is certainly in the milligrams, but I'm not sure if it is enough to harm my corals, which includes a couple of Acropora, a Pocillopora, a Montipora, multiple Zoanthids, green star polyps, and a couple of LPS corals.
<<I don't think you have anything to worry about.  It has been my experience the small amount of material you mention will have little, if any, affect.>>
The system is approximately 145 gallons in total, and I change 20 gallons out every week, religiously.
<<Excellent!>>   
Do you think my corals will be harmed by the dissolution of the metal screw?
<<No...I don't.>>
Are there any steps that I can take to mitigate any potential toxicity issues?
<<Add some Poly-Filter to your filter system.>>   
Thank you for your consideration.
Lou
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: Metal Shavings In Reef Tank - 01/09/06
EricR,
<<Lou>>   
Thank you for the timely response.
<<Very welcome>>
I'll run a Poly-Filter in my Fluval unit that I run activated carbon in.
<<Excellent>>
Your lack of concern puts me at ease.
<<Really of small concern in your volume of water...will be fine.>>
Take care,
Lou
<<Regards, EricR>>

Automatic feeder in the drink... - 2/4/2006
Dear all, I REALLY NEED YOU HELP!!!
I've written to you in the past and you've always been a great help, but I need help like I've never needed before. To start off with, I have a 30 gal tank stocked with two green Montiporas, one a plating type with brown polyps and green fluorescence on the skeleton, the other a branching with the polyps green. Then I have to small Acros, a white hammer Euphyllia, a number of other softies.
<Very hard to keep this mix in such a small volume...>
So my problem is that I went on holiday and set up a battery operated fish feeder suspended from a shelve over the tank.
I've always done this while I went on holidays without problems. But this time, when I came home, the shelve collapsed and the fish feeder fell into the water.
<Yikes>
I reckon the feeder was in the water a max of 24 hours because I was only away for one day. All the corals were closed, and the Montis lost their green, and slime was trailing of the plating Monti. The Discosoma was tiny, and the Euphyllia was closed. Basically everything was suffering. So I immediately  changed as much water as I could, added carbon and sodium bicarb because Alk was below normal and started praying!!!! This happened a week ago. Everything still looks alive, only my xenia has dissolved. The Monti polyps are still brown as before, but the green fluorescence covering the hard skeleton is missing, and has a pinkish colour. The disco is open like usual, and Euphyllia seems to be expanding slowly. So my question is whether the green will return to the Montis????
<Possibly>
I'm fearing the worst. I will do a large water change soon, and really keep parameters good, but I don't know if it will help. What can you suggest. What obviously happened was the saltwater affected the batteries in the feeder and some battery contents started to ooze out.
I'm really concerned, please help if you can
Kind regards,
Chris
<In addition to what you've done, I'd add a PolyFilter pad in your filter flow path, extend the light period another couple hours per day, and add a live phytoplankton mix. Bob Fenner>

Metal Clamps/Rust   2/3/06
Hi, <Hello Matt>
I read all of your comments on metal clamps but I have a real problem as I have 3/4 pipe on my return pump from my wet/dry and every time that I use plastic clamps they seem to come off which has caused some major flooding in my house (although I have been there on each occasion luckily!)<And hopefully the wife wasn't there.>
I purchase some all stainless clamps and although these may eventually rust, <Depends on the grade of the stainless.> am I not able to use them at all, is the rust dangerous?
I am seriously concerned as I cant seem to find a solution. <I'd just use the stainless clamps.  I've used them for years.  If one gets a little rusty replace it, they are not that expensive.  Rust is an acid, a pretty strong one at that to be able to eat our cars for supper and, in high enough levels would lower your ph by depleting the buffers.  Don't be alarmed by a speck or two if it fell into the water.>
Thanks in advance for any help! <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Matt

Incense and no peppermints   2/2/06
Hi,
<Hello there>
I Googled the website to confirm that there was no prior discussion of my question, which I was pretty sure would be the case.  Here goes - Have you ever heard of or had experience with the smoke from incense acting as some sort of toxin in an aquarium?
<I have not>
I have a 250g fish-only system with fish that have been very healthy (Sailfin tang, dogface and porcupine puffer, male/female bird wrasse, Soldierfish, spotted Hawkfish, and male/female blue jaw triggers).  I have observed some minor (?) behavioral changes the last few weeks that coincide roughly with my beginning to burn incense in the house (e.g., Sailfin tang is more territorial, shaking his head, changes shades of color more frequently; dogface puffer is scratching the sand occasionally, less boisterous; striped Soldierfish is more animated, anxious).  But, the behavior also coincides with the addition of the male/female pair of Blue Jaw Triggers (one of which promptly decided to share the soldierfish's cave).
<These will definitely elicit a change>
The triggers have been in the tank for 3 weeks now, so I'm not sure if territoriality should still be an issue.  My nitrates do rise between water changes, but I'm making a good 30% change every 2 or 3 weeks.  The fish all look healthy, no outward signs of disease, and all are very eager eaters.  Should I be worried about some environmental issue or are the fish just behaving like fish and working things out among themselves?  Thanks for your great help.
Mike
<Interesting to speculate on such inputs/patterns, consequences. I imagine that all determinate additions have some... but is it "general", like folks having larger adrenals in larger cities? With more manifestations of their secretions? An idea for the pet-fish world is to make/sell something like a "hookah" arrangement as a means of filtering air going into captive systems... Have seen such in large/wholesale operations... and the water turns a ghastly mess in a short while. Bob Fenner>

Light fixture in the sump...  2/1/06
Hi guys (gals).  I bought a little battery powered florescent light not too long ago to put under my tank above the sump (so I could see down there).
Well, sometime between last night and now, the light fell into the water.
<Yeeikes!>
I pulled the light out but it was leaking a tannish brown substance (from around the battery compartment) and a grey substance (from around the light bulb).  I presume that the brown stuff is battery acid, and I suspect the grey may be phosphorus from the florescent light.
<... not phosphorus>
Needless to say, I am pretty upset at myself for this stupidity. I have an anemone that has been deflated for a few hours.  That is pretty much the only invert in the tank that I am concerned about.  I have recently moved all my corals and other inverts to another tank (fortunately).  All my fish seem to be fine so far.
I did a water change of about 20galons which was all of the mixed salt water I had available.  The tank is a 74gal with 20 gal sump.  I also removed and
replaced all of the filter floss which had been dyed brownish from the light.  I am currently mixing more saltwater and plan to do another water change when it is ready.
What else do you recommend that I do and what do you think may have leached into the water?
<Move all the livestock immediately if you can... use activated carbon and PolyFilter in your filter flow path>
I'm afraid that if it was phosphorous, that I will have a massive algae bloom?
<Worse>
And I'm hoping that Alk was high enough to buffer any battery acid that may have leached.  If the tan/brown stuff was also rust, will that cause problems?
<Yes, likely if much got in the water>
What are the short and long term ramifications of this mishap?  Thanks for all of your vast knowledge.
Peter
<Do avail yourself of the chemical filtrants... now! Bob Fenner>

Hi Alk and hi calcium   3/4/06 A chemical mess
Hi-
<High>
I have a 109 gallon reef tank with many mushrooms, SPS corrals,
<Yee hah! Head 'em up little doggies!>
two clowns, two wrasses, a large anemone and lots of reef janitors.
<Union or no?>
It is an established tank (over 2 years).  Everything is doing fine, but I notice limited growth in coralline and all corals. I had a smaller tank previously with no substrate and always had issues maintaining Alk, ph and calcium levels but had extensive coralline and coral growth so I talked with many experienced aquarists and they recommended a plenum system for my new tank in order to help maintain ionic balance.
<... Mmm, better to go with no substrate rather...>
Since I had the plenum all tests have been relatively normal as you will see below except my Alk is always hi at 18dkh plus and the calcium is always around 480-500.  
<... define normal>
I read all of your articles and summarized that not too many aquarists have this issue and have not had the "snowfall" issue that some others had.  Here are my readings. 18 dKH, calcium 500ppm, phosphate