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FAQs about Toxic Water Conditions: Wipe Out/New Tank Syndromes
Related Articles: Marine Toxic Tank Conditions , General Marine Maintenance,
Related FAQs:
Toxic Situations 1,
Toxic Situations 2,
Toxic Situations 3, Toxic
Situations
4, Toxic Situations 5,
Toxic Situations 6,
Toxic Situations 7,
Toxic Situations 8,
Toxic Situations 9, & FAQs on Toxic Water Conditions
by: Unknown Causes, &Endogenous (from inside, e.g.
Internal, Organic Causes): Foods, Nutrients,
Venomous/Poisonous Tankmates,
Exogenous (from outside,
External, Inorganic, e.g. Metals),
Marine Algaecide Use/Chemical Control,
Toxic Copper Use Situations/Troubleshooting,
Insecticides, Cleaners,
&
Troubleshooting/Fixing,
|
Number one all-time killer of aquatic livestock:
Stalled establishment of bio-geo-chemical nutrient cycling...
Microbial wars... A need for "dynamic equilibrium"... yes, an oxymoron like
government competency... |
Saltwater die off... wipe-out
syndrome f' 03/19/2008
Hello Crew.
Since you've been so helpful in the past, I thought I'd try my luck here with a
problem plaguing a customer of mine.
A little over a year ago, he set up a 110 gallon saltwater aquarium (6' tank).
Everything progressed fine through the cycle and the first fish until he had a
nicely stocked tank with some mushrooms and Zoanthids spreading through the
tank.
The tank itself has a shallow sand bed, about 50 lbs of live rock, fluorescent
lighting, 2 Koralia 4 pumps (1200gph each) and a Corallife Skimmer. The fish
were fed a variety of foods, mostly frozen ala Bob's recipe from CMA.
After almost a year of running fine, he had a sudden die off of all but a couple
of fish. He hadn't been quarantining new additions, and I'm pretty sure it was a
gill parasite that got them.
After this episode he removed the remaining fish to his newly set up quarantine
tank and let the tank run fallow for 6 weeks. The last of the fish were replaced
in the tank at this time, with no signs of anything wrong with them through the
entire 6 weeks. This would have been November last year.
In the new year he started adding new fish again. He'd buy 1-3 from me at a
time, from the same system, quarantine them for 2-4 weeks, then introduce them.
All was progressing quite well until about 4 weeks ago when over a two week
period, every fish died. I did a full range of tests on his water, and
everything was well within acceptable ranges. He does a 10 gallon water change
every week.
All of the inverts and corals are cruising along as if nothing has happened.
Following is a copy of his e-mail to me describing what he found.
"James the only things i noticed with the fish was that they were always going
to the cleaner shrimp to be cleaned, the trigger had a white dusting on it's
body, they ate normally till they died there was no scratching but the fish
would all of a sudden just bolt across the tank like they were startled. The
first thing I noticed was the fins started getting a white patch on them then
they would go whitish instead of staying clear and as it progressed the fish
would move up the water column and stay in the power head flow. Once the fish
were at the top of the water column it would be within a day or 2 and they would
be dead. This whole thing happened over at the most 2 weeks. That's it aside
from the Blenny acting nutty from the time I got it."
All of the fish coming into my store get a medicated bath (from Bobs article on
this site), a freshwater dip, and copper treatment if there is any sign of
flashing at all. Fish from the same systems were sold to many other clients and
customers with one death out of all the fish. The rest are still doing fine.
Any ideas on what could be the culprit, be it a disease or something else? One
of my customers suggested stray current, but it's not something I have a lot of
knowledge on.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Regards,
James Foley
Thunder Bay Aquascapes
www.tbaquascapes.com
<This "sort" of circumstance I have logged (along with others) in the category
of "wipe out syndromes"... This poor "catch all" term is unsatisfying in that it
neither identifies root cause/s, nor addresses probable cures... Nonetheless,
I/we have cataloged a few occasions, here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/toxicwipeoutf.htm
Most commonly, I'd guess that these involve microbial origins... "something"
gaining large enough population size, some aspect, by-product of metabolism
poisoning, weakening other (macro) life... But, there might well be Protozoans
involved, perhaps simpler chemical series... At any length, the approach to
"solving" these syndromes has most often involved the scenario you describe
above... removing fish, perhaps other life, allowing the system to run sans
them... in the hope of lowering pathogenicity of the causative agent/s...
Another avenue to explore is enhancing the "diversity" of a given mal-affected
system (by adding mud, refugium, ozone <a favorite>, spiffing up skimming,
adding more/new live rock...)... The last, desperate approach is to dump, nuke
(chlorine usually, though some folks use Formalin... toxic! Leave windows wide
open...) and rinse with freshwater, fill with fresh, rinse w/ fresh, re-fill the
tank with saltwater, re-cycle... I am sorry to be so vague here... But this
scenario cause/response is the best I know currently. The choices again are: To
do as this customer has with fallowing the tank, adding more "diversity", and
lastly, dumping/nuking... Bob Fenner>
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Toxic marine tank
7/31/07
good
<The beginnings of sentences...>
morning, I am asking this query on behalf of my daughter she has been keeping
one marine tank for about 18 months with much success however yesterday she
bought her usual 2 buckets of fresh water and did all the tests. when
<Are capitalized...>
she got up this morning all her fish were dead she is devastated. she has been
to the shop with samples of her water and they said everything was ok
<Let's say that everything they tested for they considered okay>
she just had a toxic tank
<...?>
which was unfortunate and said these things happen can you please give us any
information or your views on what can have happened and can she avoid this in
future. ( by the way her shrimps crabs etc. are ok) kind regards Elizabeth Gabe
<Mmm... a bunch to discuss here... Need info. re the set-up, history of this
system; the livestock, foods/feeding... Please have your daughter contact us,
after reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/toxictk.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: toxic marine tank –
07/30/07
Hi Thank you for your reply
I am afraid I can't give you all the details you asked for, she is too upset to
talk about it right now.
<I see... Well, best to wait then... no rush... Leave all up and running as it
is for now>
I will tell you what I can. The tank is 50 inches long 24 H 13 W She only feeds
once a day and that is frozen shrimp
<Mmm... again, really need to know more for sure...>
I think ,I know it is frozen cubes sold in a block and some liquid she calls
snow
<The Little Fishies product? This is worthless>
that is all that I am aware of. The tests are always OK she is very meticulous
about tests and the moment any one is not 100% she takes a sample to the shop, I
also know that this is very rare. The tank is about 18 months old, and the water
change is done every 3 weeks or so. 2 buckets 25 litres each. The fish were
Clowns 1.damsel 2 domino 1 puffer
<Yikes... an untenable mix...>
I do not know the kind of fish the others are as she only calls them by name.
altogether she had a total of 10 fish, bearing in mind they were all small. She
still has about 3 shrimp and 2 crab and turbo snails. It is this( toxic tank
syndrome )that we do not understand is it
a rarity. we still tend to blame the water change.
Kindest regards Elizabeth
<Have her read and write when things settle a bit. Cheers, BobF>
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Toxic Tank(s); Myth or Just
Mystery? 8/8/07
Good evening Bob & Crew,
I'm glad you're still here because my water quality is not.
Where, oh where, has my water quality gone?
If this helps, this is the story of a Butterfly in a 10gal. treatment tank (for
ich), and a Purple Tang in a 20gal. QT tank at the same time.
Sorry about the length of this. I don't know how to keep the nightmare short.
I was minding my own business, QT'ing my Longnose Butterfly (Sponge Bob) in a
10gal. tank with an Eheim hang on filter, heater, LR and Sand (tank was four
months old, already housed 4 fish for QT for my 72gal. display) when this fish
came down with signs of ich after about two weeks.
Water quality was stable in this tank from the beginning and throughout this
entire period (Temp 76-78, SG 1.021,
<Too low>
PH 8.0-8.2, Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 0), including an additional week
after I noticed the symptoms while I educated myself on my options. Fish was
still behaving fine and eating Frozen Mysis. The fish never had spots on his
body, only a few on its tail and one fin.
With the help of your FAQ's and advice from the Crew, I moved him to a new
10gal. with no LR or Sand, raised the temp to 80-81deg., lowered the SG to about
1.019, and set up the tank as a treatment tank with a 4" PVC T-Pipe only for a
hideout.
Removed a Carbon filter that I didn't know had carbon in it after a week of
testing Copper content at zero (duh! - thanks Bob) and then, finally, treated
effectively with Cupramine following all directions for about the first of the
two weeks while the copper tests were reading what they should be with a new
test kit and no carbon filter (.4-.5). Spots were disappearing. Everything
"seemed" as if it was finally going well.
While all this is going on, I had to purchase a 20 gal. tank and equipment to QT
my Purple Tang that had just arrived at my LFS after a four week wait. Ran
20gal. for a couple of days first and everything was testing ok (as above).
I special ordered this Tang and had to take it. (Side Note: can you believe
$200.00 was the cheapest I could get one?
<Yikes! Where are you?>
Another branch of same LFS chain wanted $500.00 for one they had in the store!?)
Butterfly was originally scheduled to be in the display tank by the time the
Tang arrived - ya right!
During the second week of Butterfly treatment in the newly stripped treatment
tank, I was checking water conditions in the Tang's 20gal. QT tank (no
treatment) and was horrified to find that the readings were off the map for
ammonia! (Yes... Maxed out)
I didn't test anything else. I set a new land speed record on a panic 75% water
change (which completely freaked out the fish) and it was still testing positive
for ammonia, although less so (about 1.0). I did another 50% water change with
some water I had just mixed. Still testing positive but less than .25 on the
"not very accurate" color chart.
While I was scratching my head and pulling my hair out over this, it came to me
that I should test the Butterfly's tank just in case. I had only tested for
copper for about the last week and he didn't eat the day before. Readings were
elevated across the board! I had read that you might get artificially elevated
readings for ammonia, but not nitrites (off the chart) and nitrates (approx.
40).
I decided that newly mixed water can't possibly be as bad as this and was mixing
and changing as fast as I could to do one 90% water change followed by a 50%
water change and I was out of salt, and energy.
I did check my source water and it tested negative for Ammonia, Nitrites and
Nitrates.
I picked up more salt and some Ammo Lock on the way home from work the next day
and did more water changes with Ammo Lock over the next few days until the
readings were "barely" registering by color.
I added ZOE to the Butterfly's treated water because he wasn't eating. Things in
both tanks finally seemed to be getting back to "almost" normal. The Butterfly
started "nibbling", but not for long.
Believe me when I tell you that in the middle of all this, I was on the verge of
just packing it all in. I was looking for a huge sewer! Looking after my four
month old 72 display with fish and corals (which is fine through this whole
ordeal, somehow?), trying to treat this Butterfly (readjusting Copper treatment
after each water change), trying to watch my new Tang, trying to figure out why
my two tanks went toxic (by the way, I did remove uneaten food in the
Butterfly's tank when he wasn't eating, but maybe not fast enough - sometimes I
waited until the next day, but we're talking about very little food, and this
doesn't explain the Tang's tank - he ate Mysis and Spectrum Pellets like a
machine)
Oh, and did I mention that I had another 10gal. housing the invertebrates that I
had to separate from the Butterfly to treat it? What did I get myself into?
Whatever it was, it was way too much for a rookie.
<Take your time...>
Now if this wasn't bad enough, at the end of that week when it was time to
remove the copper treatment (two weeks and spots not visible), the Butterfly
wasn't eating again. Before I was going to do another partial water change and
replace the carbon filter, I noticed that now that my Tang looked grey and was
not well at all. I immediately tested the water and found Ammonia at approx.
0.25 but the Nitrates were off the chart and that's where I stopped testing. He
had been in QT for just over two weeks and this was the second time this had
happened. He never had any signs of ich, or anything else visible, so, not
having any better ideas, I (GULP!) basically threw him in my display tank. A
move I hope I don't regret. Within an hour his colour was 80% better and he was
swimming around starting to establish himself in the tank to my Coral Beauty's
dismay, and now the Hawk has two bosses.
Of course, the Butterfly's tank is now testing badly again, too. Ammonia approx.
0.25, Nitrites off the chart and Nitrates about 20. (Please forgive the
approximates. These were mostly panic measurements. The tests were performed
properly, but the recording and exact timeline were not)
I placed him in the now vacant 20gal. after I did more emergency water changes
on that one, and by last night, things were, again, back to barely reading any
signs of trouble.
Now I'm figuring that I will do a 25% water change every day for the duration of
his stay in there not to take any chances. When I siphoned out 5gals. of water
tonight, he just fell on his side on the bottom of the tank and started laboured
breathing. Now what? I immediately tested again and after one day, the Nitrites
were back up to 0.5 from barely noticeable last night.
I retested my mixed water that I was going to use for the change (conditioned
tap water, Instant Ocean Salt, SG still low for the Butterfly at about 1.020,
temp at about 80deg., mixing for about 20hrs with a Maxijet 400 Powerhead) and
it tested ZERO for Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates. This time, again for lack of
a better idea, I basically threw the Butterfly into the 5gal. pail with the
Powerhead. He immediately started to swim against the mild circulation from the
powerhead and is still doing so. That was about two hours ago. (Is this 400
Powerhead too much with this fish in the 5gal. pail? I don't want to work the
fish to death swimming since he hasn't been eating. I originally had a 600 in
there but it definitely looked like too much)
Forgive me if the information is not expertly laid out, but I'm so rattled at
this point, I can barely keep my story, or my eyes, straight.
<Am... a bit lost here re your intent... Quarantine does not entail having no
bio-filtration...?>
I can not, for the life of me (and my fish), figure out what is going on here.
It's as if these two tanks were cycling, but both tanks are completely bare save
for the pre-washed & well rinsed PVC Pipe in each tank.
Can waste from one fish and some sponge in a filter kick off this type of
cycling activity in a completely bare tank?
<Mmm, yes... the cycling microbes can/will live in the water, on the glass...
can just as easily be supplanted...>
When I started my first 10gal. QT tank with 10lbs. pre-cured LR and sand, I
never saw any readings like this and I ran that tank for months and QT'd four
fish without any readings, or problem at all.
I've been through more salt water on these two tanks in the last few weeks than
I think I've ever used on my 72 changing 10gals about every two weeks.
Right now, the 72 and everyone in it (knock-knock) seems to be doing well as far
as I can tell, (although obviously I am no expert), the Tang seems to be doing
quite well in the display. His colour looks much better. He is not overly
active. He hides from people still, but otherwise swims around quietly picking
at the rock and exploring the tank. I'll keep my eyes open and my fingers
crossed with this guy.
The Butterfly, as mentioned, has taken up residence IN his "water change" bucket
with water testing fine, for now.
Do you have any idea what can make a bare tank (or two) go downhill so quickly?
<All sorts>
I use the same water, procedures, etc. on my 72 gal. and have NEVER had anything
like this show up.
If these fish somehow, by some miracle, survive two rounds of this punishment, I
will rename them Guinness and Ripley's.
If they don't, then I will of course feel very badly that this happened while
they were in my care.
Any light you can shed on this one will be greatly appreciated.
And again, sorry about the length.
Mike
<Without much stability... from system size, diversity, buffering mechanisms,
differing micro-organism groups can rapidly populate, their by-products
seemingly poison a "bare" system. BobF>
Re: Toxic Tank(s); Myth or
Just Mystery? 8/9/07
Dear Bob& Crew
Thank you for your prompt reply.
Unfortunately, even with enough water changes to fill a swimming pool over the
last couple of weeks, this Butterfly did not make it. Very sad.
I managed to save the Tang by putting him in the 72gal. display, but I could not
risk putting the Butterfly in there after only two weeks of treatment for ich,
even though he "appeared" to be symptom free.
He had not been two weeks untreated without symptoms and I did not think it was
wise or fair to expose the display tank livestock to this risk.
If I understand correctly, either this fish failed to survive a bare tank that
was going through an unexpected (by me) cycling process, or this tank was being
poisoned by the by-products of rapidly populating micro-organisms, and in either
case, three or four water changes a week of at least 50% were not sufficient to
ward off the ill effects.
<I am in agreement>
The original QT tank that I set up with cured LR and sand never showed any signs
of cycling, like my 72gal. did with the uncured LR, and I did not expect this
with a bare tank.
Unlike my Butterfly, I live and learn.
Even though it was recommended that I discontinue QT'ing with LR and sand
because fish can pick things up on their fins from either and it can be tough to
distinguish these from ich spots, I will put LR and sand back in the 20gal.,
wait a couple/few weeks to see if it will cycle/stabilize before trying this
again. This is what worked for all the other fish.
<Good>
Well, at least the panic is over and I have the advantage of time again on my
side.
Thank you
Mike
<Thank you for sharing... Your comments will save many other animals, and
hobbyists grief. BobF>
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Starting over, poisoned tank 12/4/06
Hello WWM,
<Greetings to you! Mich here.>
I had a marine reef tank for almost two years and suddenly everything went
haywire and almost everything is dead. <Hmm...not good.> To rid myself of
whatever poisoned my community, and to start over, should I boil each piece of
live rock to make sure that nothing is left (thus making it dead rock, ha ha,
ugh), boil all the filters, in short, boil everything so that it is all
sterile? <All depends on what exactly happened.> This has been a horrible
weekend. <I'm sorry to hear of your troubles.> How should I start over with all
the material and equipment that I have? <Boiling seems a little radical to
me. It would sterilize your equipment and should kill the life in your rock,
but really only eliminates some of the biologically based problems. It will not
address toxicological, chemical, or environmental issues that could be affecting
you system, which could potentially be helped by the biological filtration that
has already been established. I would recommend trying to figure what
happened. Is this a disease issue? a contamination issue? a toxicological
issue? An environmental or temperature issue? Have you tested your water
chemistry? Did everything decline rapidly or slowly? What was lost
vertebrates, invertebrates, corals or vegetation? Many possibilities here.
Thanks, <You are welcome.>
abra
Hydrogen Sulfide - 01/01/2006
Happy new year to you all,
<And to you Will.>
This weekend I had the pleasure of stripping down my 60 (UK) gal marine tank for
the 2nd time, what a way to end the year but with a nice slow leak...? Anyway
all the rocks corals fish etc. are in a nice spare tank set up with heater,
filter, skimmer, and sand is in a vat with water and a powerhead. However my
sandbed seems to have been producing hydrogen sulfide instead of nitrogen, kind
of lucky the tank leaked in retrospect. The sandbed is about 4 inches deep I
should imagine, maybe a little under, I have a bout 240lph of flow through the
tank <excluding skimmer>. What's causing the hydrogen sulphide? Bed too shallow?
Not enough flow? Wrong bacteria proliferating?
<Anaerobiosis, organic build up. Flow must be leaving dead areas.>
And other than the smell what effects does this substance have? Suppressed pH or
is it actually toxic?
<Hmm....Being from lack of oxygen, the pH would be depressed, could have a
random "die off" of all livestock.>
FWIW soon I shall be upgrading from a Prizm skimmer to a v2skim 400, will this
help problems, the Prizm never really does much <other than irritate the family
with it's gurgling and bubbling>
<Will likely help as will better flow. Good surface turbulence will help gas
exchange.>
Thank you in advance,
Will
<You're welcome. - Josh.>
Re: Hydrogen Sulfide - 01/02/2006
Thank you,
<You're welcome Will.>
With regards to flow I shall put the 2 800lph pumps at each end and I have a
900lph which I shall put in the middle, I was thinking of placing in the middle
of the tank with a powerhead aiming through the rocks, would this be a good
idea?
<Hmm...You've kind of lost me here. Are these new pumps? These weren't listed
earlier. At any rate, I would direct the two 800 pumps slightly downward from
opposite ends (so they converge in the middle. The 900, I would mount high on
either side of the back wall angled slightly upward and across the tank
diagonally (enough to push the surface up about a 1/2 inch). The current will
form a slight arch, coming down in random locations because of the surface
turbulence.>
Should I point the two 800's at the front glass or just through the tank aimed
slightly at the surface?
<I would just aim them at each other, toward the rock.>
Thank you again
Will
<My pleasure. - Josh>
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- Ammonia Spike, Help! -
Good Morning - thanks in advance for your help.
History of tank: been up for 5 months
45 gals
75lbs live rock
20 lbs live sand
2 powerheads 201 & 301
Amiracle SL-5
Hippo Tang
Six Line Wrasse
15 - 20 % water changes every 2 weeks using a water tap purifier. Test water- no
ammonia)
While I was away last week , some of the snails in the tank starting dying -
When I got home all snails dead - 2 hammer corals dead - star polyp, spaghetti
coral looking real bad. Ammonia levels super high as high as 70. <Egads!>
Did a 15 gallon water change immediately. Later in the day cleaner shrimp died,
still ammonia level high. Did another 5 gallon water change that night. Next
morning all corals dead - ammonia level still high. Removed all dead coral,
moved live rock around found some more dead snails and removed them. Did another
15 gallon water change, and last night a 5 gallon change All that is left in the
tank is the Hippo Tang, six line Wrasse, Sally light foot crab, and about 5 red
& blue crabs.
Ammonia - 60
Nitrates- 40
Nitrites - 0
Salinity - 1.025
Temp - 77
ph - 8.0
What can I do to save what is left in the tank? <Larger water changes - if
your ammonia level is 70 and you change half of the water, that's only going to
reduce the ammonia by half... need to do several of these in a row.>
And also what should I do to prevent this in the future - my daughter and I want
to make sure we do not endanger the livestock again. <Don't load up on the
snails... only two or three in a tank of this size - no doubt that problem
triggered the next into a domino-type reaction. Likely the ammonia is the result
of the die-off. Large [more than 50%] water changes are your friend.>
RT
<Cheers, J -- >
Unexplained Fish Deaths?
Bob,
I think I have some unexplained fish deaths. This is a new tank but I'm not too
sure the deaths are related to cycle. I set up a 20g with R/O water, crushed
shell substrate, one pc of live rock, two Damsels, a Penguin power filter, and a
power head. I didn't even test the first week, but for the following three weeks
everything tested zero.
<Maybe the system cycled... maybe not...>
After week four I added another live rock, some snails and hermits and within 48
hrs both Damsels were dead.
<Might be the original non-cycle period... or an easily understood
"recycling" event from the new tank, new piece of live rock>
Even though everything tested zero I chalked this up as tank cycle. The
following week I added another live rock that had a Purple Anemone attached to
it.
<Not a good move... I'm sure we're going to come to understand... Anemones
are sometimes used this way... generally die, pollute, poison the water...
necessitating complete breakdowns>
Everything still tested zero at week six so I started the protein skimmer added
yet another live rock and a Tomato Clown that has now died within 48 hrs. I
tested the water and the Ammonia is at .25 and Nitrite .25 everything else seems
o.k.
<Except the dead and dying livestock, and organisms in/on the live
rock...>
I just can't believe this would be enough to kill the clown.
<Easily>
The damsels died with everything at zero
<Everything you could measure... attention is narrowed perception my
friend>
so I'm wondering if something else could be going on. Could that rock at week
four have carried along some kind of parasite that has killed all these fish?
<Doubtful>
If so how would I find out without the sacrifice of another fish?
<No need to do this either... Very likely the following scenario is what
happened, is happening... With the introduction of successive "pieces"
of live rock in a new, highly unstable system, subsequent "cycling's"
are occurring with some of the rock's inhabitants contributing some toxic
products... Just "wait" a good three, four weeks w/o putting in any
more "pieces" and all will/should be fine>
Thanks for you help, John
<You're welcome. Bob Fenner>
Lost all my fish
I have a 150 tank for about 6 months with fish and live rocks along with a Lifereef wet dry and protein skimmer. Recently I purchased some live rocks from a pet store that was closing, that is when my problem started. MY fishes started to die one by one. No apparent symptom except before they expires completely there are a white film that develop on their body. Do I need to tear down my tank or is there something else I can do before adding new fish? Water quality is good, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. I'm suspecting a bacterial infection, can I add antibiotic without harming my live rocks.
>>
This is very bad news... and I would take the system down... at least to the
point of emptying all the water out, refilling it with just freshwater... (yes,
and hence killing off a bunch of the organisms that are live rock, live sand)...
for a day, and then refilling it with pre-made seawater... Whatever the real
cause of your "toxic tank syndrome" (biological, disease, rot from the
new live rock...), this is about the only approach I'd consider...
Alternatively, and if the above doesn't work, I would consider
"nuking" the present set up (with bleach... cleaning the whole thing
out, using the present "live" rock as base... and placing some new on
top of it...
Bob "bearer of bad but useful news" Fenner
Contamination Problem
Last week I wrote you stating I had a major problem with my system of not
being able to keep my new stock for over 3 days. You stated that it might
be a contamination problem or possible a lack of circulation. Well that same
night I changed 20% of the water and vacuumed my substrate. I noticed a black
film on some of the rock I had at the bottom of tank. It had a bad order to
it (like sewage) and appeared to be almost painted on the rock. I thought
this might be a lack of circulation like you suggested, so I ran out and got
a power head to move my water around more aggressively and removed the
questionable rock. Some days later I bought a flame angle, percula clown,
and a yellow tang. All were doing very well for 4 days then I noticed that
the angle and clown had slime coating or skin coming off of them looks like
when you have sun burn and your skin peels). Then 1-2 days later I noticed
some very small white spots on the tang, angle, and the clown. Looked like
ich, so I added green x to the system. I have some live rock and inverts)
<Argghhh, this material (Greenex( is very harsh... and you should have at
least freshwater dipped the new fishes... Please read over the
"Acclimation" and "Dips/Baths" sections of the Marine Index
on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com>
The next day the angle and clown died appears that no ich was on them only
the dead skin that I described. I did another slight water change and stopped
treatment . what is going on!!!! am I a victim of some sort of voodoo curse,
or is everyone lying to me saying that a salt system is not that hard to
keep??? please help. I had nothing but stress and loss of funds with my
system.. your my only hope.
<Please don't give up... let's let the system alone for a few weeks and chat
over trying some other tacks (added lighting, more live rock) and some very
hardy types of damsels to try again... Please also read over the "Toxic
Tank Situations" section on the WWM site: Bob Fenner>
Re: Disaster!! III
Hello again, well, let me update everyone on what's been happening. The blenny
is not a happy camper in the q-tank. He's all funny striped, almost white at the
tail. He seems to be swimming around but he won't eat.
<I recall that the copper was tested at .40 at one point. This level is long
past deadly for many marine fishes>
I'm so confused with this whole q-tank business. Originally we had the filter
(over the side kind) soaking in the sump of the main tank while it was cycling.
<there's part of the problem... a sponge sitting in the sump will develop a
little biological activity (mostly on the exterior) but needs to have water
forced through it to maximize colonization. Much better to simply run the sponge
in the filter as it will run on the QT>
Then we put it in the q tank when we put the blenny in there. We also put a
sponge filter in the q tank (it had not be in the sump previously) We cannot get
the ammonia down. It was 1.0 on Sunday so we did a 50% water change and now
today it's 1.0 again. Not sure what to do.
<daily water changes until the filter establishes...again, could be weeks>
I changed the filter today to just a plain one that has not been in the sump of
the main tank.
<I'm not sure why... all new media will set you back further. You simply need
seeded/aged filter media... some patience>
And we're planning on doing another 50% change tonight.
<excellent>
We have a r/o unit that we use to make the water. Or should we put water from
the main tank into the q tank instead of new water??
<new water please for water changes (aged water was initially for the
transfer gently of the display fish). Remember to aerate RO water for 12 hrs or
more first, then buffer/reconstitute and mix for another 6 or more hours. Raw RO
water is dangerous as it is too pure (low pH/hardness, high carbonic acid,
etc)>
Any input you can give us would be great. On a happier note the blue tang is
doing good. He's starting to eat although he still hides a lot and likes to hang
out in the corner, but he did eat today. So, things are looking up. We just need
to watch for ich now I guess.
<exactly... but we will hope for the best>
One more question. I noticed that when our sand sifting star came up out of the
sand the other day that the clowns went nuts. I looked closely and saw a ton of
little bug like things crawling all over the sand and as I looked closely I saw
these bug like things all over the rocks and everything. The clowns were eating
them all up like crazy. I'm assuming that these are just copepods and amphipods
right??
<correct>
Nothing dangerous??
<very beneficial... I wish we could culture them by the pound>
I see them scurrying all around the tank. They are tiny though and don't have a
claw like a mantis shrimp.
One last question. My husband wants me to ask, would you recommend vacuuming the
substrate?? We only have small grained sand. We can see air bubbles stuck in
there though. We're hesitant to suck it up due to fear of sucking up all of the
sand. What do you recommend?
<course sand needs to be agitated and sometimes siphoned regularly... fine
sand generally needs little help. If you want to experiment, you could try
stirring the sand... but I don't bother myself>
Thanks for letting me pick your brain again. Katie and John Michael
<many jokes here <smile>. Anthony>
Milky Tank
Hi Bob, Love your column!
Yesterday I did my routine water tests, about 1 week from the regular water change. Ammonia, Nitrite, were unreadable, pH 8.2, and Nitrate 10ppm. That was
about 10:00 pm. This morning at 8:00 am my tank looked like a huge glass of milk!
In a HUGE panic, I immediately did 3 consecutive 25% water changes. ( empty, refill, empty, refill, etc.) Trying to "fix" it without dramatic shock if that's even possible. Retesting at that time reveals the exact same results as last night, Nitrate still 10ppm, so it must have been incredibly higher before the panic water change.
The tank visibility is improved, but still very cloudy. Any idea of what happened, How to prevent it in the future, and how to clear the water????
The tank has been successfully running for over 2 years. Additions to the tank in the past month: 1 green brittle star, 1 long spined sea urchin, 1 arrow crab. Capacity: 75 Gallons. Other inhabitants: 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 boxing shrimp, 5 hermit crabs, 1 blue/yellow damsel, 1 Clarkii clown, 1 checkered goby, 1 Banggai cardinal, 1 bubble tip anemone, 1 carpet anemone, and a full compliment of live rock.
Filtration: 1 canister filter rated at 350 gph, 1 protein skimmer . Water changes at 1 month intervals (25-30%) Nitrates generally run between 5 and
15 ppm.
All of the inhabitants are accounted for except the clown, I haven't seen her
yet.
Thanks in advance for your input!
Lisa
<Thank you for writing, and the mystery. Gosh, all sounds like a good set-up and maintenance regimen... except the "white out"... Let's see, because most all the livestock that might contribute to the condition seem to be okay.... at least they didn't just dissolve and make the water change color... And of the livestock list, nothing jumps out as "reproductive products" as a cause... I'm inclined to speculate (is this vague or what? Maybe there is a career for me in politics!) that "something" went awry in your live rock and/or substrate to render the observed effect (it may have been a microbial explosion, or "wipe out").
The very good news is you're observant, intelligent and diligent... and as a consequence of having a good set-up and healthy livestock to start with, you will likely not have problems going forward. In other words, you did about what I would do at least, given the same
conditions/circumstances. Oh, and how to "clear the water" (read the input Bob)... I would utilize a pre-packaged unit or two of activated carbon and resin... like Chemipure in your filter flow path.
Bob Fenner>
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