Re: Ammonia?  8/20/07
>Hi WWM,
>I think i have a slight ammonia problem. I feed my fish and 30 - 60 minutes later my fish start breathing for air at the surface.
><Yikes>
> I test the water and it shows 0ppm on my test kit.
><Might be low dissolved oxygen>
> The next day the fish are fine and no more breathing. It has been happening for about 2 weeks and it happens everyday after i feed my fish. But yesterday my Chromis' started to breathe at the surface and about 3 days ago one of my yellow tangs disappeared
<!>
> and i have a
>feeling he is causing the ammonia spike in my tank the last 2 days. Before he died the Ammonia was kind of like an on and off thing. But now most of my fish are gasping for air. Is it unusual to constantly have ammonia going up and down?
><Yes... insufficient biofiltration...>
>I have these pouches in my tank called 'Maifan Stones' by 'SUN SUN'. Have you heard of them?
><Have now:
>http://www.google.com/search?q='Maifan+Stones'+by+'SUN+SUN'&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7PCTA>
>They are meant to lower ammonia and nitrite
><I would remove this material>
>and i think this might be what is lowering the ammonia every time. If you have any idea what is happening i would really like to know urgently.
>Thanks, Maison
><... what re the set-up, size, history of this system? BobF>
Hi Bob,
My tank is 6 x 2 x 2 foot, Multi SL protein Skimmer, UV Sterilizer, Reef
Octopus Nitrate Reductor, 12,000l/h return pump, Tunze Pump in a Rock(9000
l/h of movement),
<5 Nitrate, 0 Nitrite, 0 Ammonia on my test kit (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals),
pH 8.2.
My fish are:
Convict Tang
Blue Tang
2 Yellow Tangs(1 now)
Desjardin Sailfin Tang
Lawnmower Blenny
Mandarin Dragonet
10 Chromis
Flame Angelfish
Longnose Hawkfish
1 Black Ocellaris Clownfish
1 Ocellaris Clown
Haven't had any filtration problems before, it only started 2-3 weeks ago.
Yesterday i noticed these grey blotchy patches on my black clownfish. His middle white stripe has a transparent looking blotch on it. Would you have any idea what it is?
<I suspect something amiss with your Nitrate Reductor... I would take this off-line. Likely either the feeder stock is poisoning your system or some co-factor here.>
I've been searching for it on the Internet and can't seem to find it. All my other fish look perfectly fine. I just bought a new rotating powerhead yesterday and i am going to put it in the tank today to see if it helps the oxygen level. What would be the best and most accurate Ammonia test on the market? Because i don't like the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Ammonia test kit.
Thanks, Maison
<Look to Hach, LaMotte brands/manufacturers... BobF>

Rapid breathing 08-16-07 SW nitrogenous  – 08/17/07
Hello, to whomever is responding at this time. Thank you for what you do for all of us beginners! If you could direct me to the portion of your page dealing with gill burn or something similar, I would be grateful. I guess I am not typing in the correct search queries to bring me to the right page. I have a green wolf eel and yellow striped maroon clownfish. My tank is stable with Ammonia and nitrite at 0ppm, Nitrate at 5-10ppm, ph of 8.3, temp of 78 degrees and SG of 1.023. All of these readings are very consistent. The two fish have been back in my display for 7 days. I have had both since May 2007. They were in my QT tank for 6 weeks before introducing them to the display due to an Ich outbreak on a regal tang, which has been moved to a large system. These two never showed any signs of ich, but moved them to QT to be safe and let the tank fallow.
<Good move>
My concern is that the QT tank started to cycle while they were in it and they were exposed to ammonia levels of close to 2ppm and then Nitrite of 2ppm.
<Yikes!>
Their breathing (more so the eel) still appears rapid and deep. That seems to be their only problem. One time (yesterday) I saw the eel open his mouth very wide (like my yawning) and push his gills outward. Do you know what he was doing?
<A mechanism for cleaning? A reaction to low DO? A "threat" display due to your presence?>
They both are very active and eating great and otherwise appear normal. Is this gill burn from the bad water quality (I did 50-100% daily water changes with pre-mixed and aerated water while they were in QT to fight the high levels), or possibly something else? Is there anything I can do to help them?
<Patience, good care otherwise>
Is it even possible for them to recover from gill burn (if that is what it is)?
<Oh yes>
Thank you for any advice or link you can direct me to. I try so hard to keep them happy and healthy but seems I always, unknowingly, do something wrong, so now I turn to you. I will continue to read and learn. Thanks!*~*April*~*
<Don't think we have a link per se... I would try a search here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
with gill burn marine fishes... and read the colored cached versions to save time... But gill burn from nitrogenous metabolites is very common as are dire hemolysis from environmental challenges... But/and can be resolved/cured. BobF>

Toxics Water?...More Likely Overcrowding, Lack Of Knowledge 10/15/07
I have a 40 gal tank that has been running for 3 months with a Three Striped Damsel, False Clownfish, Yellow Tang, Scopas Tang, Mandarin Goby, 2 Diamond Gobies, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, 2 Crocea Clams, Sun Coral, Frogspawn Coral, two Bubble Tip Anemones. One assumption
<Assumption of what?>
was the Mandarin Goby, after buying and doing my reading. I realize I shouldn't have it due to the lack of live rock (100lbs or more).
<And the fact that your tank is overstocked by a good margin.>
I have had her for about a week and she is doing fine, last night when the water was cloudy she turned very white in color and would swim near the surface on the water which I found to be very unusual for a Mandarin Goby. This morning I checked the mandarin and she is fine, good color and size.
<and size??>
Just to sum up a few things here it is. Recently I noticed that my cleaner shrimp was indeed pregnant, ok cool midnight snack. Second was the red slime algae, I treated that with the proper dose of Blue Life Red Slime Remover. It worked great. that treatment was 3 days ago, no more
red slime after one treatment.
<Not a cure, just a temporary band-aid. It will be back. Better to control the source of the problem. Read here and linked files above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm>
For the past few weeks the water quality has been good all except for nitrates.
<Not surprising with the load you have in that 40.>
It have been around 10-15 ppm. I added Algone
<Another band-aid and not a fix. Go here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm>
and have been doing 10% water changes every couple days to gradually bring them down. Last night I came home to my tank being completely cloudy and I had assumed it was maybe my cleaner shrimp giving birth so I left it as is. This morning the tank was clear but my Xenia was dead, so I did a water test. The first thing I checked was ammonia, it was way to high like 6 ppm. The Xenia is the only thing that died. This morning I did a 25% water change and the ammonia did not change. Any Suggestions?
<You definitely need to reduce your fish load. I'd would find homes for the tangs, as your tank is much too small for
them to begin with. Next would be the Diamond Gobies, they are not going to survive for long in that environment, and not a real easy goby to acclimate to begin with. And, the Bubble Tip Anemones, not good mixing these with corals. BTA's will move from time to time, and in the process, sting other animals along the way. Without a source of copepods for the Mandarin's diet, it too will more than likely perish. Never mentioned lighting, do not know what your lighting consists of, but the Crocea clams do require high intensity lighting to survive. It sure sounds like you have had very little direction or knowledge before setting up this tank. You mention nothing about using a filter and/or protein skimmer. This info does help us give a better answer to your query. In your case though, it is quite obvious that overstocking is the major problem here. Reading here and related linked files above, will give you a much better understanding of
what is required to establish and maintain a healthy marine system. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marineSetUp.htm>
Thank you for your time.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog(>
Riley, Christian E.

HELP NEEDED... LR introduction wipe-out...
I have a 55 gallon salt tank it has been up and running now for a few months. everything has been fine until last night. I recently bought 16 pounds of new live rock to add to my existing LR.
<Best by far to sequester, re "cure" this outside main systems...>
I also did a 10 gallon or so water change. everything was still fine for about 24 hours then it all happened. At the stroke of the new year, I seen the tank was cloudy, checked my ph it was 7.0,
<Yikes!>
checked nitrates they were over 5.0,
<... likely Nitrites... deadly>
then I seen lots of bristle worms( I had never seen these in my tank before) all the fish were dead including the sea urchin, however my red starfish, and anemone are still alive, the anemone is not looking so good but is still alive. I also seen some cocoon looking white sacks on a live rock. (what could these be) now today I am doing water changes readily to try to get the nitrates down. Am I doing this right and what happened to cause this. I don't want to cause this again, ever.
<?>
I appreciate any information and help you can give me. I am a nurse who feels like a murderer to these poor fish. last night it was almost like a code blue call for me. I even had my husband assisting me in doing emergency cares for the star and anemone until 5 am this morning.
Sam
<... much for you to read. Please start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/lrh2oqualfaq2.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Plate coral poisoned tank? Toxic tk. situation, endogenous, biol.   3/2/08
Hi,
First, thanks for this fabulous resource that I've used once or twice :)
<Welcome>
I've scanned your FAQ's extensively (and have been since March of '06) but am not finding what I'm looking for exactly, so my apologies if this is a duplicate question. I couldn't find it in any of the books that I have either (Calfo's and *The Conscientious Marine Aquarist* the most frequently referenced ones).
I had a 72 gallon lovely (I thought) tank setup that was flourishing for quite some time (well, about two years) containing some basic livestock- a six-lined wrasse (a meanie who will not be replaced), a clownfish, 12 chromis, 1 Firefish, 2 perpetually pregnant cleaner and 1 peppermint shrimp, a lawnmower blenny, many polyps and Palythoa, a mysteriously appearing (and multiplying) tree-type coral,
<Please send a pic of this... could be a Hydrozoan... trouble>
mushroom corals, in addition to the usual feather duster worms (3 small), turbo snails (24) and blue legged hermit crabs (30) with various 'pods in the rocks and sump. Quite a few hitchhiker opihi's (don't remember the real name for them), small stars, worms, an emerald crab, etc. came in on the 90+ lbs of live rock that we had accumulated over time, and our deep sand bed in the sump and display were full of little wormie guys who build the little calcified tubes.
<Sounds very lively>
A bout of hair algae prompted my husband to stop at a local aquarium store and purchase a sea hare on the dealer's recommendation, much to my dismay- but there was enough algae to keep the guy going and he seemed to be doing quite well in there (based on his expanding girth). He seemed to be a good fit for our system.
<Mmm, too many of these are inappropriately placed... cold water... too likely to be unhappy, toxify a system>
Emboldened by his previous success, my well-intentioned but poorly-informed husband stopped at the same store that was now having a going-out-of-business sale.
<Not a good sign...>
He purchased a couple of very small polyp-covered rocks at $5 apiece and a large coral for a mere $10 :( The oh-so kind dealer assured him that his purchases would be very easy to keep alive as long as the large coral was given a piece of fresh fish once in awhile.
<...?>
By the time I had researched the coral and knew that I was dealing with a nearly impossible to keep alive plate coral (it resembled an anemone),
<Heliofungia... actiniformis>
it was late into the evening and the store had closed for good; no other store in town would take the plate coral. I drove myself bonkers trying to keep the doomed fellow alive, but die he did, and everything else in the tank died shortly after he croaked and exuded some kind of slime stuff.
<...>
The tank has run fallow since then, (July of '07) the only survivor a lone hermit crab.
I'd like to get this tank going again. Attempt #1 was done after several small water changes- testing the water looked ok, so I went out and purchased 6 small blue-green chromis. They were all dead the next morning.
All of my basic parameters appeared ok- with the exception of slightly elevated nitrates and high calcium (which is a constant problem no matter what we do). I tested and retested and retested. I bought more test kits and tested again. Still what I thought was ok (at any rate was what the previous population had appeared to thrive in before the addition of the plate coral). I assumed there was something in the water that I was unable to test for- a toxin or something from the plate coral (grasping at straws, perhaps?).
<Maybe>
Attempt #2- I did a 100% water change, but did not change the sand in the tank. I drained it a much as I could; in that process I noticed not one single living thing other than the previously mentioned hermit crab. As I said, the tank was previously teeming with 'pods and other critters who came in off the live rock. Even after running fallow for six months or so, still nothing was showing up, nor has it since the complete water change that we did four weeks ago. Three weeks after the water change I purchased 3 more small blue-green chromis. One was dead a few days later; a few days after that one was caught in the overflow. That one died the next evening. I've tested the water weekly but again, nothing looks weird to me except for the slightly high nitrates and very high calcium that is typical for our tank.
Expected diatom bloom going on right now. I'm starting to see small bubbles coming off the rocks which leads me to suspect a possible Cyano outbreak is in my near future. During this water change, the rocks were exposed to air for about an hour. I did not rinse them off but misted them with fresh saltwater (not from the tank).
Should I purchase some 'pods in a bottle and put then in my sump?
<Mmm, I wouldn't just yet>
I do not want any more live rock in the tank, but I'd like to re-seed the tank (only once I know it's safe). Is there something specific that you think I should test for in my tank before anyone else goes to their doom in there?
<Mmm, you might try running some filter media... PolyFilter, GAC... for a few weeks, ahead of the next trial... Or skip ahead to removing the Hermits... and nuking/bleaching all... draining, rinsing (repeat) a few times with freshwater... re-filling with marine, adding some new live rock over the old...>
My smart-alecky daughter has named the last three fish "dead fish 1, 2, and 3", and I'm starting to feel like all the fish in the fish store are hiding behind rocks when I walk through the store's door :(
I'd rather give up the hobby than keep killing fish... can you help? I'm feeling very nervous for my hermit crab and lonely chromis.
Below are my test results and equipment on the tank:
Temp-78
SPG/salinity-1.023-33
ph-7.9 (taken in the afternoon)
alkalinity- 300 (KH 4.8 per Salifert)
ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-20
calcium- I've used three different types of kits; they all show the calcium higher than 600.
<Something amiss here... you don't want the biomineral content this high... at the expense of alkaline reserve>
I don't dose or add anything to the water other than Dechlor for water changes so I don't understand this. No calcium precipitation but wondering if the Alk and ph are somehow suppressing that.
<...?>
This reading has always been the case with my tank (since June of '06). Is the sand a problem?
<Maybe>
Evap top-offs are done with R/O water.
I haven't been testing for magnesium, iodine, or strontium, since the big wipe-out.
Equipment/setup:
72 gallon bowfront (Upgraded from 30 gallon in June 06)
15 gallon sump / refugium (below tank) with 6+ inches Oolitic sand and spaghetti algae, rubble
Chemi-pure and Poly-filter in sump
Aqua C Remora Pro Skimmer with overflow box
Circulating 700-800 gallons per hour
Two powerheads (one rotating) for circulation
TEK T-5 Light 6 -54 watt bulbs (two actinic)
90+ pounds of live rock
Oolitic sand as substrate- 4 inches in display
Water changes are made with tap water, Dechlor, and Kent sea salt (mixed a week before)
<I'd read on WWM re, try another brand>
Many thanks for taking the time to read this long email,
Stephanie in Santa Cruz
<The choice is up to you... to try the chemical filtrant, more time going by route... or the biocide do-over. Bob Fenner>

Abandoned Toadfish  2/5/07
Hey guys, I'm sorry, I don't really have time to search through all the forums but here is my dilemma:
<All?>
My friend owns some species of toadfish (don't know what)
<Batrachoidids?>
and he has not cleaned the tank, aerated it, or balanced it in any way in almost a year.
<May he be reincarnated as a toad>
He has forgotten it was still alive and has barely fed it at all, although it appears to be ok. I think it is about 2 yrs old. I decided to adopt it and I've never set up a saltwater tank, so am doing a lot of research.
<A lot?>
I bought a Marine Chemical test kit, to test the current water so as not to kill the poor thing as soon as I move him, but everything is off the charts. PH, Alk, Nitrates... everything. I don't know how he's still alive! How can I slowly integrate him into a healthy tank without killing him?
<Mmm, slow removal of old water (a few percent a day let's say), replacement with "new" water>
Should I use 3/4 his water, with 1/4 new? It has a lot of algae in it. What can I add that will slowly bring the levels back down?
<Just the water changes for a month or two>
What kind of things can I put in his tank that he won't eat that will keep a balanced enviro and maybe some company?
Sincerely,
Josh
<Mmm, I'd try some live ghost shrimp... can be had/purchased from a LFS. Bob Fenner>

Tank Crash, NO2    4/30/07
Hey guys,
<Craig>
Thanks so much for creating such a comprehensive site.  Without it I'd be nowhere.  Here is an embarrassing who-done-it tale, that I thought you might be able to solve.
<Will try>
I came home after having the tanks lights out for about a day and a half in the attempt to cool the tank until I installed 2 fans in the canopy to keep the temp down.  I was running hot at about 84.  Today I came home and one of my larger fish did not look well and I noticed a dead Damsel on the bottom (I'm cycling right now).
<Mmm, a bit of a/the cart afore the equine...>
  The large fish was caught rod and reel from the ocean for cycling purposes, though now I realize that fish are not necessary for this purpose (I was following the LFS guy's advice, at the time).
<Mmmm>
I also noticed that my live rock did not look good.  The macro-algae had lost color.  I immediately took measurements of Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate, and everything was fine (high Nitrites (1.5 ppm),
<Not fine. Toxic>
no ammonia, 10 ppm Nitrate), but the nitrites have been there for about a week).  During the panic I managed to knock the carbon filter output out of the sump, so as I tested, gallon after gallon of precious water was spilling onto the floor (big mess before I noticed). So...
I ended up doing a water change, to replenish the lost water (about 10 gallons out of 120 + 55 sump).  I put in some stability
<Proper noun; capitalized>
and now a few hours later things look a lot better.  The fish are not breathing heavy and the algae is regaining color.
What do you think may have caused this situation?
<Mmm, the dead fish, high nitrite... but who came/caused first?>
Here are the facts:
1)  I was lowering the temperature - 84 - 78 over 48 hours.
2)  I've been raising the pH - 7.8 - 8.0 over 48 hours
3)  I added a 55 gallon tank pack of Bio Spira to help things along
<Good>
(though I had been using Stability for the prior 2 weeks before stopping about a week ago.
4)  I had the lights off for 48 hours
5)  that was the first water change in 3 weeks (since the inception of the tank)
Any ideas?
Thanks so much guys!  I want to see if I can avoid this happening again!
Again - great site!
Craig
<Thank you. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/no2trbfix.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Impatient Cycling Causes Fish Deaths  5/10/07
Greetings from Manila, Jason here.  Hope you guys are doing good as usual! :)
<Hi Jason, This is Jeni/Pufferpunk here today & I'm doing great, thanks for asking!>
4 months ago, I had some fresh live rock from the ocean, transported it back and placed it into my 30 gallon tank.  
<Lucky you!  We pay up to $9/lb for nice rock here.>
I only have the small powerhead, no filtration, no skimmer.  Tank temps ranged from 79F to
83F.  
<83 is a bit high.  I'd aim for no higher than 80-81.  We're having a heat wave here & I have 4 fans on my tank, trying to keep the water below 82.>
I thought the fresh live rock might not go thru a cycle process because I transported it myself and was submerged in ocean water for several hours.  
<Any exposure to air will kill off some of the life & start a cycle.>
My mistake was I did not use any aeration during transport.
2 days later, lots of die off.  Everything died, worms, crabs, sponges, except for the coralline algae.
<To be expected.>
After week 3, my water was now pretty clear because of the algae growth and ammonia and nitrates were heading low.  My readings were: Ammonnia-5mg/L, Nitrates-5mg/L, pH 7.6.
<Actually, still quite toxic.>
Is there anything else I should really check for?  I don't know why my pH was
acidic.
<You are testing for the correct things.  Ammonia, caused by die-off will cause the water to become acidic.>
Anyway, at week 3, I decided to do a 80 percent water change to take care of the nutrient export and then get a baby Scopas tang and a couple Turbos.  
<Did you test the water beforehand?>
After a week, the tang died.  It started off swimming/nipping/eating for the 1st two days.  Then it got spooked out all the time and towards the end, would always be hiding in the rocks and never came out.   I checked my Ammonia went back up to 5mg and nitrates back to 5mg.  
<Quite deadly--tank was not cycled.>
I did another 80 percent water change and introduced another tang.  
<Without testing the water?>
He did the same behavior but died after 2 days.  I checked the water properties, nitrates were at 40mg/L!  It increased to 40mg after I introduced the new tang.  
<Why do you keep putting these animals lives at risk?  You cannot introduce animals to a tank that shows even the smallest amount of ammonia/nitrites & nitrates should be below 20 for fish.>
The first tang 2 days before it died started to develop an ulceration around it's eye and also its color started to get dark, with small white spots (but it didn't look like ich).
<Ulceration probably caused by ammonia burn.>
I thought it might have been HLLE, so I checked the water: ammonia, nitrates, pH.  
<What were the results?>
I also unplugged the lights, fan and used a different pump.  But then the next tang died too. :(  What could have happened here?  Are my rocks not cured enough to support even one fish?  
<There is no such thing as "cured enough".  Either the rock is fully cured or it isn't.>
Should I remove my 3 Turbos, which are happily munching away?  
<There is nothing nastier than a dead snail in your tank.>
What do I do moving forward, do I still continue to do water changes?
<Suggested reading: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i3/Live_Rock/live_rock.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrcurefaqs.htm  
Please do not add any more livestock until your rock is fully cured.  ~PP>
Jason

Oops. Protein skimmer waste back into the system!   5/22/07
Hi crew,
<Elizabeth>
While in the process of cleaning out my protein skimmer, all of the waste in the collection bin spilled over into the tank.  Of course my ammonia level shot up through the roof.
<Yikes!>
I treated the water as soon as I noticed the problem (unfortunately 4 hours later since someone else cleaned it for me).  One of my damsel fish acts like nothing happened, while the other (the shy blue) was lying on his side on the bottom of the tank gasping for air.  The ammonia is fine now, and the fish is trying to swim, but not really succeeding.  Is there any hope of saving this poor fish.  Thanks!
Elizabeth
<Well, there is always hope... I would try another dose of an anti-ammonia product here (my choice? Amquel)... and try to stay light on feeding for a week or two. Bob Fenner>

Re: Chrysurus angel sick... poisoned...  8/14/07
Well Bob I have read everything on your site on this and now I have lost my lionfish (who started whirling around towards the end like he had no balance), my male yellow stripe maroon clown, and now my Female is whirling like her swim bladder is affected?
<Some sort of poisoning>
Conspic still not eating and has a cloudy eye, (if this was HLLE why are eyes cloudy on this fish?.
<See above>
My passer and imperator are doing ok still eating but their heads look terrible. This am I was able to catch all fish and move them into holding talk with sharks. Should I start over? I was contemplating bleaching tank. let me know your thoughts on this please, and then returning sharks to clean tank, and treating fish with erythromycin or neomycin with Metronidazole in holding tank.
Thanks again bob.
Kelly
<... something toxic in this system... I would execute large water changes, add carbon to your filter path/flow. BobF>