Compatibility/Bannerfish
1/18/08
Hello Crew,
<Hi Mike>
Thank you all for the tremendous service you provide.
<You're welcome.>
I've been successfully keeping a happy family of marine fish for 3 years now,
largely in part to the wisdom you provide here. I have a stocking/compatibility
question. My tank is 250g, fish-only, and has been established for 3 years. The
water is treated through wet-dry filtration, a UV sterilizer and a protein
skimmer. I do 15% water changes once a week, religiously. Ph is 8.3 to 8.4,
salinity 1.020-1.021, nitrates between 10 and 40, KH from 10-12. I recently had
a phosphate issue, but phosphates are below 1.0 again after replacing the
crushed coral bed and half the BioBale in the wet-dry over a period of a few
weeks. I do experience slow growing algae, usually brown/red on the rock and
also some greener hair-type algae, but keep it under control with the weekly
water changes and cleanings. The fish currently in the tank are a Porcupine
Puffer, Dogface Puffer, male and female Bird Wrasse, Squirrelfish, Sailfin Sang,
and a Blue-jaw Trigger. All are near adult size, except the trigger. I am
considering adding a small school of Bannerfish. I've read that a pair will do
fine, that 3 is better, and that 4 is still better. I expect the sailfin will
initially be annoyed, but should calm down to get along with the Bannerfish. I
don't expect the other fish to bother much with the Bannerfish. (Should I?) My
concern is overstocking and bio load. Do you think adding a school of 3 (4?)
Bannerfish is appropriate here? (My first choice was to add a Volitans lionfish,
but your website convinced me that the chances are high that the puffer or
wrasse will pick at it.) Thanks as always for your valuable advice.
<I wouldn't, Mike. You've got a few rough housers in there and the Bannerfish
are
pretty timid, may be some problems here with the Bannerfish getting enough to
eat and/or picked on. James (Salty Dog)>
Mike
Heniochus; the Lysmata hunter? 4/2/07
Hello,
<Hi.>
I had a question about the Heniochus Blank and White butterflyfish.
<Go on...>
I haven't found any information about this fish that would lead me to believe
that it will eat various types of shrimp.
<What type of shrimp? Some shrimp are very, very small...pelagic plankton
type....others are shall we say considerably larger.>
I currently have 1 skunk cleaner shrimp and 5 peppermint shrimp in my 75g tank.
<So we're referring to Lysmata then? Well Heniochus (and there are more than
one species in this genus) are in large part quite "flighty" fish, they lack the
weapons to be predatory...feeding on mostly pelagic plankton (though some act as
cleaners to larger fish as juveniles). It is unlikely that a well-fed Heniochus,
in captivity or the wild would attempt to hunt down a healthy Lysmata
shrimp...and even if it did attempt it, it would be unlikely to be
successful. If a Lysmata is on the blows of death or already dead though, a
Heniochus (or most other fish for that matter) would not be above feeding on the
carcass.>
I have a few corals, mostly just some xenia and a bubble coral. Would this fish
eat any of the shrimp in my tank?
<No the corals/sessile invertebrates are at more of a risk than the shrimp,
though keeping Heniochus in reef displays seems to have grown more popular and
successful at that; Adam J.>
Response: Heniochus; the Lysmata hunter? 4/5/07
Alright, thanks for all of the help.
<No problem.>
I was wondering because someone told me there's ate the shrimp in their
tank.
<I'm not saying it isn't *possible* as I would never say anything of that
nature regarding the marine aquaria hobby. *BUT* this is highly unlikely and
uncommon.>
The Heniochus I was referring to is also known as the "Poor Man's Moor" or
something like that, just so you know.
<Heniochus acuminatus likely.> <<Mmm, at least two species in this genus are
called "Poor Man's Moorish Idols"... in reference to their similarity in
appearance to Zanclus canescens. RMF>>
Thanks for all of the help though!
<No trouble, Adam J.>
Heniochus Butterfly.. Reef Safe? 2/13/07
Hi gang,
<Hi Chuck>
From my copy of 'Conscientious Aquarist' I know the general rule that a
Heniochus Butterfly isn't reef safe. Here's my specific question: I have a
60 gallon tank connected to a larger reef system which is home to a pair of
true Percs and a mandarin goby. The only coral in the tank is a pair of
admittedly oversized 'rasta' softies. . . one of which hosts the clown.
[Sorry for the non-scientific terminology, but that's what it was labeled
when I bought it]. What is the chance of a Heniochus deciding that he/she
needs to nip these?
<A good chance.>
My LFS only gets juvenile Heniochus maybe once a year, and currently has a
trio of small ones. . . One of which I'd like to add to my tank if it's not
a recipe for disaster.
<That chance will be yours to take. Any tubeworms, etc will be picked at
for sure, the coral being nipped will depend on the eating personality of
the individual fish. Myself, a chance I would not take.
James (Salty Dog)>
Chuck
Heniochus acuminatus approp. tank size 12/17/06
Hello again Mich,
<Tom, my friend, hello to you.>
Well, as much as I would LOVE to start a giant tank, like you said, it is quite
hard on the pocketbook.
<Yep! I hear you!>
A little too hard for my liking.
<I understand!>
Well today's question is about Heniochus acuminatus.
<Alrighty then.>
On your site it says that this type of butterfly needs a minimum tank size of 15
or 20 gallons.
<Hmmm, I read this also. Seems kind of small>
Is this really true? Or did they mean to say 150 or 200 gallon tanks?
<This was my initial thought also. I have seen references of this fish reaching
lengths of nearly 10 inches.>
If they can really live in a 15 or 20G do you think I would be able to keep a
group (2-3) in a 90G tank?
<According to what RMF has previously posted, yes in theory this should be
OK. RMF, this is correct?> <<Yes. RMF>>
I read that they live in groups in the sea but do you think that they would get
along in an aquarium?
<Yes, in theory.>
Thanks for your time.
<You are quite welcome.>
Please do tell me if I am taking up too much of your time. I'm guessing you
don't get paid so I don't want to take advantage of you.
<I have very much enjoyed our exchanges, the pleasure is mine! I look forward
to more.>
I hope you had a great weekend.
<And you also! -Mich>
Tom
Inquiry on Fish Compatibility
Hello-
Yesterday I added a small Black and White Heniochus (Alias: Wimplefish, Poor Man's Moorish Idol) to my 55 gallon fish-only tank. My tank is now fully stocked and it is not being readily "accepted into the tribe". The main bully is my large Sailfin Tang, I realize that they look similar, but my Sailfin Tang had never displayed any amount of aggression the whole time I have owned him. It has only been a day so it is probably still too soon to establish any kind of permanent problems, but is there anything I can do to get them to cooperate with each other?
Thanks, Dillon
>>
Hmm, not too much... Maybe leave a light on outside the tank overnight for a few days... to allow all to see each other and avoid injury (running into rock, the tank's sides...)... This is about "it".
Bob Fenner, who hopes they will all "settle in"
Heniochus Butterflies.
I was considering putting butterflyfish in my 240g reef. My LFS has a pair of common henis for sale. I
have read these are a planktivore. Do you think these are very likely to devour all of my worms and corals.
<Possibly some of the worms if they're small, but the genus Heniochus rarely consume coral polyps... more interested in floating crustaceans et al.>
Also what are the best butterflies for a reef environment that are also easily sustained.
<Thanks for asking, have rated most all species, and posted the rating system on our site: Home Page , please take a long read there...>
I noticed FFexpress has a nice Acropora samoenis coral for sale. Can I keep this under VHO lighting and have the coral stay green?
<Yes, if your water quality is good, and you can place this colony near the surface (in a stable, well circulated area, it should do fine.>
Thanks Everett >>
<You're welcome, Bob Fenner>
Banner Fish in Reef System?
Bob,
I was in my LFS yesterday and saw a beautiful black
and white banner fish. It is about 4” in size and
looks very health. I like to bring it home however
currently I have several corals in my tank. Is the
banner fish reef safe? I have read several articles
regarding this fish and the suggestions are somewhat
different from one to another. Just like to have you
expertly. Thanks and always appreciate your help.
<Most Heniochus Butterflies as species, individuals are "reef-safe"... unless very hungry, in too small a system. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/heniochu.htm and the associated FAQs. Bob Fenner>
Wayne
Fish questions this time
Hello and good evening guys and girls,
<<And hello to you...>>
This evening I have a question regarding my little fishies :)
<<Ok.>>
I just got a Heniochus diphreutes and have a few questions, my scopas tang is chasing him around and he is picking at my feather dusters and on the brittle star as well. I was assured in the shop that he is reef safe, but am beginning to think otherwise. <<Well, did the shop reassure the fish that it is reef-safe? I mean... the fish obviously has its own plans. Did you quarantine this fish by any chance? It's a great opportunity to get them used to other foods before release into the main system.>>
Also my tomato clown has discovered a piece of live rock that he likes. This rock is sitting on some crushed coral substrate, he is methodically clearing a hollow in the substrate around this rock and dropping them in another area of the tank. Any theories?? <<House cleaning/organization - that would be my theory.>>
Last but not least, I was feeding the bubble coral and he ate his Mysis shrimp, later after the lights were off I was watching and the cleaner shrimp swarmed over him and pulled the
Mysis out of his mouth. I had also previously fed the cleaner shrimp a piece of krill earlier. <<Was there a question there? You might try something a little finer for the bubble coral so that it's not so slow to uptake, and so easy to steal by the shrimp.>>
Ok keeping it short this evening, thanks again for answering my second question this week.
Cheers.
Julian Hunt
<<And cheers to you. J -- >>
Cleaner shrimp, polyps, Heniochus
Hello again,
I recently added a cleaner shrimp (Lysmata grabhami, I think) to my 75 gal. Setup which includes some yellow polyps and green button polyps. I've seen the shrimp "sampling" the polyps several times, causing them to close up. Do you think this causing harm to the polyps?
<The shrimp is probably bugging them more than anything else, I doubt they are in any danger.>
On a similar note, I'm interested in Heniochus Bannerfish. I've read that H. diphreutes is reef safe, but H. acuminatus is not. Do you agree? <yes> Would a pair of H. diphreutes be suitable for a 75 gal. that is otherwise lightly-loaded?
Thank very much, and thanks for maintaining such a valuable site.
John H.
<Thank you for the kind words, and I promise, the site is only going to get better. A pair of the H. diphreutes would be much better suited than the H. acuminatus. You can find more information on butterflyfishes at the link below. Best Regards, Gage
http://wetwebmedia.com/BFsBestWrst.htm>
Re: butterfly with mushrooms and star polyps
Steven,
One last question, what about the wimple fish/banner fish/Heniochus? Would they eat star polyps and mushrooms?
<It depends on species.>
I was under the impression these fish are planktivores?
<H. diphreutes is, H. acuminatus is not.>
If so, can 2 fish be kept easily? Or is 3 a lot better?
<I have seen both, but it depends on species, size of tank, mated pair or not.>
Cheers, Matt
<Have a nice day. -Steven Pro>
Heniochus Reef Safe? - 8/23/03
Hi... I just want to ask if a Heniochus diphreutes B/F eats corals? or what
coral is compatible with heni's? thanks Ü
<most butterflies and close kin are a calculated risk with sessile
invertebrates... do read more in our archives at wetwebmedia.com about better
species. For likely "safer" corals, you will want to look almost
exclusively at soft corals, and then at the noxious/toxic ones like gorgonians
and zooanthids in particular. Best regards, Anthony>
Heniochus Butterflies
Hi Guys-
First of all, I want to say GREAT job on the book. I received my
autographed copy a couple of weeks ago. It was well worth the wait.
<Thank you for your kind words>
Second, I am in the process of trying to obtain a couple of Heniochus
Diphreutes. My LFS has a couple of beautiful 2 1/2" Heniochus'
that arrived
last week that are in quarantine. Unfortunately, the LFS cannot be
sure
whether the fish are H. Diphreutes or H. acuminatus. Since I plan to
introduce these fish into my reef tank, it is important that I get the H.
Diphreutes. Can you recommend a way to differentiate between the two
fish?
<Mmm, easier to do with both species in front of you. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/heniochu.htm
where both are presented... with the most common differences noted (size of
mouth and "chest" area>
Also, how important is it for H. Diphreutes to be in a "school". They
are
going into a lightly stocked 135G tank (2 ocellaris, yellow tang, royal
Gramma, C. solorensis), but I imagine more than one butterfly will eat up
the living space pretty rapidly.
<They do show best kept in a couple... Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Bret Packard
Bannerfish and Corals 5/26/04
Hi Crew, Hope you had a pleasant weekend!
<Thanks! You too.>
Have recently purchased Bannerfish; were labeled and sold as Heni. acuminatus
but are actually diphreutes. My mushrooms have been safe so far should I say!!!
The LFS says mushrooms are not bothered by diphreutes as well as leather coral.
After looking through your FAQ on Bannerfish I still have a question. What if
any polyps or other corals are not eaten by diphreutes. I was particularly
interested in Zoanthus polyps group or could you suggest some other hardy corals
safe with diphreutes.
<Most if not all corals should be safe with most specimens of H.
Diphreutes.>
Could you also recommend an informative book on anemones?
<Yes! "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones: A Guide for Aquarists
and Divers" by Fautin and Allen. It is a bit out of date and not super
complete, but remains the best aquarium reference on this specific topic.>
Thanks once again for your much appreciated help and expertise and look forward
to your reply. Regards Ceil Wagaman
<Glad to help! Adam>
Asfur Angel Stocking Concern
Dear Mike D.:
Thanks for your response.<Back again, and you're
welcome> The pygmy angelfish I'm referring to is
the cherub angelfish, and I introduced him at the same time as
the Flameback with both of equal size. This method
usually works well in larger tanks, and the two of them are
truly best buddies in this tank.<Since they've settled in so
well, they may end up being far closer than you ever
dreamed. Keep an eye peeled for spawning
activity> My question is in regards to the
Heniochus. I've never kept one in the
past. Would you recommend a single specimen, or a
small shoal of say four members?<Although they usually do
fine alone, there are some real advantages with a shoal,
particularly with the Schooling Bannerfish (Heniochus diphreutes)> Would
a Bannerfish be able to hold its ground against an angel such as
this one?<At full size, very little can hold it's own against
a large Asfur, and again, here's where a small shoal might work
well. It's difficult to do much damage to one fish if they all
look alike, the old "dither"
principle> And, within the Heniochus group is
there one particular type that stands out regarding durability,
etc.?<I suppose you'd think you were being set up if I told
you that the diphreutes was both the most common and the
hardiest, eh?> Finally, the larger gobies you are
referring to I'll assume are types like the brown barred goby
and so forth. Aren't most of these sand
sifters?<Many are, but the gobies that are large enough to
handle regular aquarium fare usually do quite well. I have a
spawning trio (species unknown) in my 100 gal. tank at the
moment that all shoot to the top and "stick to the
glass", waiting for food when I approach, thus being among
the best fed fish in the tank> I guess I'm
concerned that they'll not be able to find adequate amounts of
food in the substrate since I already have two white sand stars
in this tank. Is this a valid concern?<Possibly,
but here my concern would be more for the sea stars than for the
gobies. My sand sifting stars showed me that they
could climb the glass for food as well, and now are individually
spot fed on small pieces of meaty food and are up to almost
5" across each and still growing.> Thanks
again!<You're welcome and best of luck>
Sam Mancini
Compatibility of Black & White Heniochus?
Are the following completely compatible together? << Nothing is completely
compatible, but we can generalize here. >>
Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus)
Tiger Tail Sea Cucumber (Holothuria sp.)
Red Sea Star (Fromia milleporella)
Squamosa Clam (Tridacna squamosa)
Blue Tuxedo Pincushion Urchin (Mespilia globulus)
<< Yes, I would say these items are fine in a reef tank together. >>
Second question: Are there ANY corals that the Heniochus Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus) is compatible with? << Certainly. They are known to pick
at zoanthids and small polyps, but I've seen many Heniochus in reef tanks living
fine with large soft colt corals and mushroom anemone rocks. Every fish has its
own personality, but these fish are commonly seen in reef tanks. >>
<< Blundell >>
Adding Heniochus Butterflyfish
Hello Wetwebmedia crew. I'd like to start by giving all of you a big thank you
for spending your time to help those of us who need it. Until now I have always
found the answers to my questions in your FAQ files.
<There are lifetimes of development and sharing to go>
Last November I added three two inch Heniochus butterflyfish to my 125 gallon
FOWLR tank and one died about three weeks later. I would like add another one
but everything I've read says that they should all be added at the same time. Is
there some way to add another and have them all get along? Would it help if I rearranged
the live rock and made sure the fish were all the same size or should I just
keep the two I have?
Thanks Eric
<The Butterflyfishes of this genus, particularly the most common acuminatus,
secondarily diphreutes, are actually quite "mixable" and you should
have little difficulty adding to their number. For looks sake, one/s of about
the same size should be sought. Bob Fenner>
The Never Ending Heniochus Query 9/24/05
Hey Bob.
<He's agreed to let me answer this one...again.>
How big do Heniochus diphreutes get compared to acuminatus?
<Well I have answered this one in the previous query but you can always check
for yourself in the WWM FAQ’s.>
I know both of these fishes max. size in wild, but what about in captivity?
<On average slightly smaller, however I feel it necessary to mention that as
responsible aquarists we should always plan for the largest potential size of
any given animal.>
And if I keep two Diphreutes together in a 70g tank will they school?
<Most fish who are “schoolers” (when in captivity) just tend to hang out rather
than follow each other in all but the largest of systems.>
Is it more likely for this fish to school than Acuminatus?
<About the same in my experience.>
My tank is ready and am looking forward to stocking it after almost a year!!
<My friend I know I may have come across slightly frustrated but this is your
4th query this week on the same subject, I have answered twice and Bob has
answered once. It appears you are fishing for an answer that suits you and not
necessarily the truth. In my opinion both of these animals will outgrow your
given time due to their swimming behavior. Bob on the other hand said its
“possible” for you to keep one but not a school. Take both answers and come to a
solution. Should you have any other questions feel free to reply. If this has
anyway damaged your view of our free service, I apologize. For reference your
previous queries are now posted in the Heniochus FAQ’s near the top.>
Thanks Bob
Jeff
<Wishing you and your new tank well, Adam J.>
Bannerfish and Yellow Tang 9/8/05
Hello,
I just added a Bannerfish (AKA poor man's Moorish Idol, Wimplefish, etc.)
and two Fiji Blue Devils to a fairly new 75 gallon tank. The only fish I had so
far were a Yellow Tang and a Maroon Clownfish. Almost as soon as the
Bannerfish was added the Yellow Tang started to attack him with his tail
spine/scalpel.
I removed the tang and put him in the quarantine tank to give the Bannerfish
time to get used to the display tank and start eating. I also rearranged the
rocks where the Tang likes to hide so when I put him back in he will have to
reestablish his territory. Are these fish not compatible or will things calm
down a bit later on? Thanks, <Normal behavior for the tang, things will calm
down, and a good move in rearranging rock. Do read up on Bannerfish on the WWM
for more info on your purchase. James (Salty Dog)>
-Adam-
Re: Catching Heniochus diphreutes Eric Russell's Way - It Really Works! - 11/30/05
Hey there,
<<Hey Dave!>>
Yes, just waiting two days did the trick, just for superstitions' sake, I made a new trap out of a perfectly clear 2 liter plastic
bottle and used fishing line instead of string (believe it or not, I'm sure the last Heniochus looked at that white string and just didn't like the looks of it.).
<<Ah yes...agreed.>>
At any rate I didn't have the bottle in the tank 10 min. before the fish swam right in it. Thanks!
<<Glad to hear all ended well.>>
Now it just so happens the store where I originally got the 3 Bannerfishes (took them back for full credit) sold a large (375g.) tank and they need a home for a beautiful Vlamingi??
<<Vlamingii...as in Naso vlamingii...Bignose unicornfish...>>
Tang. They are willing to give it to me, but I'm a little leery about how it will do with the Naso lituratus I already have.
<<Mmm...>>
I have not looked up the fish yet, but was interested in your opinion, if you have the time.
<<Compatibility issues aside, the Naso vlamingii is a LARGE fish, growing to nearly 30" in the wild...even a 300 gallon tank will become "small" in time, and yours is hardly "empty" now. I think you would do better to get the Anthias as previously considered...this is my opinion.>>
Thanks again
Dave Harvey,
<<Regards, EricR>>
BTW, the Trachyphyllia already looks much, much better without the clowns, and the Banners.
<<Excellent! Makes a difference when you're not being battered/consumed alive <G>.
EricR>>
Re: Catching Heniochus diphreutes? II - 12/01/05
Hello again!
<<Hi Dave!>>
Yeah, although it is a beautiful fish, and I would even possibly consider giving up the Naso tang, to be able to have the Vlamingii, it is obvious to me that it is just too big (or soon will be) for my tank.
Thanks again
Dave Harvey
<<Best for all in the end my friend. EricR>>
H. Diphreutes And Trachyphyllia (Yum-Yum) - 11/26/05
Dear WWM staff,
<<Howdy>>
I read and read and have become very, very friendly with all staff at LFS (My
son even works there now). But the more I discuss, and the more I read, the
more I realize how much I don't know and how many different approaches may be
successful... or not.
<<You "are" learning then.>>
At any rate: I have over the past year set up a 300G tank (96"X30"X24"), 90G
sump; actually 50 G sump connected to 40 G cryptic refugium with about a dozen
or so different non-photosynthetic sponges.
<<Neat!>>
Have just slowly started adding livestock over the past couple
months. Livestock: 1 Naso Tang about 7", 1 Harlequin Tusk about 4", 1
Banggai
Cardinal about 5", 1 Magnificent Rabbit about 6", 3 Bannerfish (Diphreutes)
about 3.5", 1 Chevron Tang (Strigosus?) about 3"
<<Mmm, probably Ctenochaetus
hawaiiensis...look here: Ctenochaetus
hawaiiensis.
>>, 1 Blue spotted Jawfish about 3", 1 Lawnmower Blenny about 4", 1 Male
Filamented Flasher Wrasse about 3", 1 very small Hectori Goby, ...just got rid
of a pair of beautiful Ocellaris today, 2 Queen Conchs (very small still), 12
large Turbo snails, about 12 smallish Trochus snails, 2 Peppermint Shrimp
(although I think the Tusk may have gotten them by now).
<<Now or later...>>
Corals: all still small with the exception of a fairly large
Plerogyra sinuosa.: a few Ricordea-both Yuma and Florida, Euphylliids-one medium
large Torch, one medium Ancora, various mushrooms, one
medium Sinularia (cabbage), one very small long-tentacle Sarcophyton, one very
small Pocillopora, one very small Montipora digitata, a medium Trumpet with 7
polyps, one very small Blastomussa merleti, a relatively large but still
localized colony of Xenia <<for now>>, one small Blue Sponge, one colony
medium-large Star Polyps, a very small Entacmaea quadricolor that I resuscitated
after all it's tentacles were rubbed off by an extremely obnoxious black
Ocellaris (since removed), 3 rock anemones (one has divided twice), one
medium-large Condylactis (Haitian purple tip).
<<Ugh...you were doing pretty good till you got to the anemones. These motile
animals have no place in a tank with sessile invertebrates. You have a nice
collection of aggressive corals which can be trouble enough...if those anemones
decide to go "walkabout" it's going to be very ugly for all. Even if they stay
put, the chemical/biological warfare being waged will eventually lead to the
detriment of everything.>>
Water chemistry has been great, nothing out of the ordinary, recommended ranges
(by you guys, Fossa et al, Paletta, etc.).
Lighting: four 96w VHOs, One 400w 12,000K MH, two 250w HQIs
Flow: return pump about 1200gph, one Tunze 6200 Stream, one Tunze
WaveBox, about 260# of live rock, over 3 areas from left to right as you face
the tank
1. a slope from the left side and top gradually widening to about 1.5 feet at
substrate level.
2. a central islandic bommie about a foot in diameter and to height
of about 1.5 feet roughly in the middle of the tank, but perhaps just slightly
rightward.
3. a multiple cave system from the right side of the tank meandering leftward
almost to the central bommie.
<<What's a "bommie"? Marina>>
<<<Marina, a "bommie" is basically a pile of rock, surrounded by substrate,
not touching other rockwork. -SCF>>>
<<Sounds very nice...good to hear someone "not" building the usual rock
"wall".>>
The sand bed is sugar fine and about 6 to 8" deep, this was seeded
with about 30 pounds of live sand from my 35g.
<<Does the trick nicely, but may I suggest getting a cup or three from fellow
aquarists/LFS to increase the bio-diversity.>>
I have a fairly large area towards the right side of coarser aragonite and
rubble for the jawfish.
<<Ah yes...needs bits to bolster the walls of the burrow.>>
Now, sorry to be so long winded, but I thought perhaps if you know
how the tank is the question will make sense and allow a more
thorough answer.
<<Indeed it does.>>
I thank you heartily in advance: I have had a gorgeous Pacific Rose
Trachyphyllia for a year. The above mentioned black clown kept rubbing at it and
it remained closed until I got rid of the clown. Then it pretty much flourished
with great color, feeding response, and expansion in a 35g. I transferred it
into the 300g about 2 months ago and thought it looked fine; when expanded its
diameter was about 4-6". I got the 3 H. diphreutes <<uh-oh>> on 10/28. I have
read that though they are generally better in a reef than H. acuminatus, they
will pick on a sick or dying coral.
<<Mmm, no...not limited to "sick or dying".>>
Up until a week ago they did not bother the Trachyphyllia, then they started
picking at it.
<<Not atypical...>>
I have to admit I couldn't really tell whether they were just
aggressively going after mucous output, or actual tissue, but with the
combination of the two Ocellaris (I got rid of them yesterday)
rubbing at the brain, it just closed down completely, very small, no tissue
expansion, no feeding response.
<<And will remain this way until its demise, in the presence of the
Bannerfish.>>
I removed the Trachyphyllia to my 12g hospital/quarantine tank.
<<Smart move>>
I couldn't believe my eyes the next day, the Trachyphyllia was gigantic, a
diameter easily 8-10" and the tissue so inflated that some of it was actually
floating off the substrate.
<<Hee! Helps when you're (the Trachyphyllia) not being eaten alive!>>
Ate Cyclop-eeze, oyster eggs, live rotifers very well and even a
couple small krill.
<<Do keep the pieces very small (minced).>>
After a week of just phenomenal expansion, and color, I thought since the clowns
were gone now I would try to re-introduce the brain back into the 300g.
<<Uh-oh...again (dinner bell ringing in the background)...>>
I acclimated it (as I do everything) over 1.5 hours with continuous drip, then
gently placed it back in the same spot it had previously occupied...the
Bannerfish immediately started picking at it, the brain closed down, but not
completely and the tissue was not so constricted that is wasn't still "mushy".
<<Still...not a good "condition" for the brain.>>
Then I noticed that the Bannerfish trio was not actually picking tissue but
gulping mucous.
<<Will still likely lead to the brain's demise.>>
I watched closely for the better part of 2 hours, and I don't think they picked
off any tissue, but the brain still stayed closed.
<<Yup>>
Should I just give back the diphreutes?
<<If you want to keep the brain, yes.>>
Should I see how things go?
<<I think we all know how things will "go"...>>
The brain is so magnificent when fully expanded and I have become so attached to
it, that I would gladly evict the Heniochus (if I can
catch them) before ever giving up the Trachyphyllia.
<<There's your answer.>>
Thanks again for reading all of this. Any comments, criticisms,
suggestions, general thoughts about the tank would be greatly
appreciated.
<<Already stated>>
p.s. After reading Fossa and Nilsson’s "Reef Secrets" I am greatly
intrigued by the idea of a large number of Lyretail Anthias in the
tank (they suggest 60 in a 190g tank) I was thinking more along the
lines of perhaps 2 to 3 dozen. Thoughts??
<<A good choice as far as Anthiinae go (I have some of these in my 375g reef),
if you get rid of the three Heniochus, I think 8-10 would make a nice
addition...must consider the other large fishes already in the display.>>
Thanks again so much,
Dave Harvey
<<Regards, EricR>>
Re: H. Diphreutes And Trachyphyllia (Yum-Yum) - 11/27/05
Thanks so much for your reply.
<<Very welcome>>
Yes it is a Ctenochaetus strigosus (Kole Tang, not Chevron, sorry.).
<<Ah, ok>>
Have taken your advice, and have removed 2 of the Heniochus, have not been able to catch the third yet.
<<Can be an "adventure", to say the least.>>
Have not seen the E. quadricolor move at all and have had him over a year.
<<Lucky so far.>>
Yes the Condy has moved, but just up and down along the same plane.
<<Lucky again. <G> >>
At the LFS they have a huge (HUGE!!) E. quadricolor in a pretty well stocked (with both LPS, SPS, and softies) 220g with 2 A. clarkii that occupy the Bubbletip. Even so, I take it your experiences have not been good with anemones in a reef. Would like to hear more about this if you're willing.
<<Happy to Dave... I'm not telling you it can't be done, there certainly will
be/are exceptions, but for the majority of hobbyists, mixing motile anemones
with sessile invertebrates leads to tragedy, though sometimes it takes a while
(even years) to manifest. And often so, the ultimate loser in all this is the
anemone. Some have suggested these animals may be immortal...only succumbing to
predation, disease, starvation, etc.. Considering this, how many folks do you
know that have been able to keep an anemone for ten years? five years?
<<Like spitting in the ocean when one considers the natural lifespan of
many of these animals. MH>>
Anemones require excellent water quality/tank conditions, and fending off constant attack in a closed system does not fall in to this category. Even all this aside, do consider that when I answer queries I have no idea of your knowledge/experience/dedication to the hobby. It's my task to try to steer you, and those who read this, in a direction that is likely to succeed. And in my opinion, keeping anemones in a reef tank is not a formula for long-term success. I don't expect you/anyone to blindly take my advice...it is my wish to inspire you/others to think before acting, to do your own research, and to make informed decisions.>>
Thanks so much, Dave Harvey
<<Welcome my friend, EricR>>
Catching Heniochus diphreutes? - 11/27/05
Hello again,
<<Hello Dave>>
I did catch two of my three diphreutes (with a bottle trap) that were picking on my Pacific Rose Trachyphyllia. There is absolutely no way to catch the last one with a net in my tank (many, many hiding places) and at least for right now this last fish seems completely uninterested in the food in the bottle trap.
<<I would cease all efforts for a few days, give the fish a chance to calm down, and then try the trap again.>>
For the other two I placed 1 Marine-Two pellet, some frozen Mysid shrimps, some
Cyclop-eeze. Might you suggest any other thoughts, tips, food suggestions to get this last Bannerfish out of my tank?
<<The foods seem fine (might try some live brine shrimp), and the trap is probably your best bet...but this fish is "riled up/wise to you now" and needs to be left alone for a couple/three days, maybe longer, before resuming.>>
Thanks again so much,
Dave Harvey
<<Regards, EricR>>
Soft Corals With A Heniochus chrysostomus - 11/05/05
Crew,
<<Hello>>
I recently bought a Heniochus chrysostomus, and found out the hard way that it dines on some types of coral.
<<Yes, as do all in this genus...even Heniochus diphreutes, which is considered moderately reef-safe by some.>>
I have only recently converted my tank to a reef tank and only had two corals, a finger leather that I bought to start with, and a small Galaxea coral that was a freebie on a piece of live rock I bought.
<<Love those freebies!>>
It was still a small coral, but I had dubbed it "the little coral that could" as it was starting to spread and thrive in my tank. But in less than a week of being picked at by the Heniochus, it was gone.
<<bummer>>
Very sad. However, the Heni leaves the leather alone, as I have read on your site is often the case.
<<Yes, though really still a "crap-shoot" as to what they will bother.>>
What I'm wondering is what other types of soft corals might I have luck with as I add to my tank that would coexist with the Heniochus?
<<Impossible to say really. You can try adding specimens and watching them closely for predation, but my best advice is to remove the Heniochus if you really want to keep a reef tank.>>
My wife really likes the corals that "flow" in the current.
<<Mine too!>>
Prior to adding the Heni, I was planning on adding a pulsing xenia and daisy polyp (not sure of the proper name).
<<Mmm...could be Pachyclavularia or Alveopora maybe?>>
Any chance for either of these two?
<<Likely these will become fish food...>>
Others that would work and "go with the flow"?
<<Nothing I'm certain of, I've seen these fish even eat noxious zooanthids. This will have to be trial and error on your part...or get rid of the fish.>>
Thanks
<<Regards, EricR>>
Heniochus singularius 12/21/05
Hello and Happy Holidays!. Today you posted my question titled "Heniochus
Singularius", (dated 12/21), but failed to add any response. I appreciate that
its a busy time, and I'm sure you guys are cranking out as much as
possible. Hopefully. you can revisit my question. I do get the sense from last
night's research that any small polyp-type corals will be fish food, but I am
mainly concerned for the Ricordea, the large clams/oysters attached to the rock,
as well as the hermits and snails. Will the H. singularius also eat pods,
putting my Mandarin at risk. The ultimate size of this fish also concerns me in
a 75 gallon.
Thank You!
<Sorry re. This entire genus is largely zooplanktivorous. I don't think you'll
have problems with it ingesting Cnidarian polyps nor outcompeting your Mandarin
if there's room for both. Bob Fenner>
While at my LFS today, I came upon a Heniochus that looked slightly different
than the type commonly seen in most stores. I was sure I had stumbled upon a
Heniochus Diphreutes, which I learned on this web site would be a better choice
for a reef. Once I got the fish home and compared it to pics on this site, as
well as several others on the web, I realized that I had actually purchased a
Heniochus Singularius. My current set-up is a 75 gallon with live sand and 60
lbs of live rock. The only corals are some Ricordea as well as some polyps that
came on the rock. The rock also has several attached oysters/clams. I also
have many blue-legged hermits and several different types of algae eating
snails. As for fish, I have a maroon clown, a velvet damsel, royal Gramma and a
Mandarin. The tank has been running for 9 months and is very healthy. How safe
will this new fish be with my current set-up. I could easily remove the
Ricordea, and was not planning on adding additional corals. I would like to
keep a good population of hermits and snails, and am curious how the bivalves
will fare. You had responded to an earlier e-mail that a Heniochus would
probably not do much damage to the live rock, but am curious to know if H.
Singularius changes the equation. Thank You!
Heniochus intermedius 1/19/06
Hey crew and specifically to whoever's answering questions tonight. <James
this AM>
I'm planning a 10' long tank and was looking at the Heniochus intermedius. I
know opinions on whether or not Heni's are reef safe are not are varied even on
the WWM staff (I know Mr. Fenner usually states them as reef-safe barring
individual personalities), but this is usually stated about Diphreutes or about
the genus in general. My question is how does the Intermedius fare on the
reef-safe scale? Is it generally safe like Diphreutes or not traditionally so as
with the Acuminatus? Any help you can give would be great. <As with all
Heniochus/butterflies the Red Sea Banner Fish possess individual personalities
and while one may not bother anything, another may wipe out your worm
population. The mouth is designed for poking in crevices and retrieving worms
and such.>
Also, if considered reef-safe for the most part, would I still be looking at
losing all of my fan worms if I were to have 5 in a 10' long tank? <The chance
you will have to take my friend, no guarantees. James (Salty Dog)> <<If hungry,
Banner Butterflyfishes will definitely consume tubiculous polychaete worms.
RMF>>
Thanks. <You're welcome>
Nick