Compatibility/Bannerfish 1/18/08
Hello Crew,
<Hi Mike>
Thank you all for the tremendous service you provide.
<You're welcome.>
I've been successfully keeping a happy family of marine fish for 3 years now, largely in part to the wisdom you provide here. I have a stocking/compatibility question. My tank is 250g, fish-only, and has been established for 3 years. The water is treated through wet-dry filtration, a UV sterilizer and a protein skimmer. I do 15% water changes once a week, religiously. Ph is 8.3 to 8.4, salinity 1.020-1.021, nitrates between 10 and 40, KH from 10-12. I recently had a phosphate issue, but phosphates are below 1.0 again after replacing the crushed coral bed and half the BioBale in the wet-dry over a period of a few weeks. I do experience slow growing algae, usually brown/red on the rock and also some greener hair-type algae, but keep it under control with the weekly water changes and cleanings. The fish currently in the tank are a Porcupine Puffer, Dogface Puffer, male and female Bird Wrasse, Squirrelfish, Sailfin Sang, and a Blue-jaw Trigger. All are near adult size, except the trigger. I am considering adding a small school of Bannerfish. I've read that a pair will do fine, that 3 is better, and that 4 is still better. I expect the sailfin will initially be annoyed, but should calm down to get along with the Bannerfish. I don't expect the other fish to bother much with the Bannerfish. (Should I?) My concern is overstocking and bio load. Do you think adding a school of 3 (4?) Bannerfish is appropriate here? (My first choice was to add a Volitans lionfish, but your website convinced me that the chances are high that the puffer or wrasse will pick at it.) Thanks as always for your valuable advice.
<I wouldn't, Mike. You've got a few rough housers in there and the Bannerfish are
pretty timid, may be some problems here with the Bannerfish getting enough to eat and/or picked on. James (Salty Dog)>
Mike

Heniochus; the Lysmata hunter?   4/2/07
Hello,
<Hi.>
I had a question about the Heniochus Blank and White butterflyfish.
<Go on...>
I haven't found any information about this fish that would lead me to believe that it will eat various types of shrimp.
<What type of shrimp? Some shrimp are very, very small...pelagic plankton type....others are shall we say considerably larger.>
I currently have 1 skunk cleaner shrimp and 5 peppermint shrimp in my 75g tank.
<So we're referring to Lysmata then?  Well Heniochus (and there are more than one species in this genus) are in large part quite "flighty" fish, they lack the weapons to be predatory...feeding on mostly pelagic plankton (though some act as cleaners to larger fish as juveniles). It is unlikely that a well-fed Heniochus, in captivity or the wild would attempt to hunt down a healthy Lysmata shrimp...and even if it did attempt it, it would be unlikely to be successful.  If a Lysmata is on the blows of death or already dead though, a Heniochus (or most other fish for that matter) would not be above feeding on the carcass.>
I have a few corals, mostly just some xenia and a bubble coral.  Would this fish eat any of the shrimp in my tank?
<No the corals/sessile invertebrates are at more of a risk than the shrimp, though keeping Heniochus in reef displays seems to have grown more popular and successful at that; Adam J.>

Response: Heniochus; the Lysmata hunter?  4/5/07
Alright, thanks for all of the help.
<No problem.>
I was wondering  because someone told me there's ate the shrimp in their tank.
<I'm not saying it isn't *possible* as I would never say anything of that nature regarding the marine aquaria hobby. *BUT* this is highly unlikely and uncommon.>
The Heniochus I was referring to is also known as the "Poor Man's Moor"  or something like that, just so you know.
<Heniochus acuminatus likely.> <<Mmm, at least two species in this genus are called "Poor Man's Moorish Idols"... in reference to their similarity in appearance to Zanclus canescens. RMF>>
Thanks for all of the help though!
<No trouble, Adam J.>

Heniochus Butterfly.. Reef Safe? 2/13/07
Hi gang,
<Hi Chuck>
From my copy of 'Conscientious Aquarist' I know the general rule that a Heniochus Butterfly isn't reef safe. Here's my specific question: I have a 60 gallon tank connected to a larger reef system which is home to a pair of true Percs and a mandarin goby. The only coral in the tank is a pair of admittedly oversized 'rasta' softies. . . one of which hosts the clown.
[Sorry for the non-scientific terminology, but that's what it was labeled when I bought it]. What is the chance of a Heniochus deciding that he/she needs to nip these?
<A good chance.>
My LFS only gets juvenile Heniochus maybe once a year, and currently has a trio of small ones. . . One of which I'd like to add to my tank if it's not a recipe for disaster.
<That chance will be yours to take.  Any tubeworms, etc will be picked at for sure, the coral being nipped will depend on the eating personality of the individual fish.  Myself, a chance I would not take.
James (Salty Dog)>
Chuck

Heniochus acuminatus approp. tank size   12/17/06
Hello again Mich,
<Tom, my friend, hello to you.>
Well, as much as I would LOVE to start a giant tank, like you said, it is quite hard on the pocketbook.
<Yep!  I hear you!>
A little too hard for my liking.
<I understand!>
Well today's question is about Heniochus acuminatus.
<Alrighty then.>
On your site it says that this type of butterfly needs a minimum tank size of 15 or 20 gallons.
<Hmmm, I read this also.  Seems kind of small>
Is this really true? Or did they mean to say 150 or 200 gallon tanks?
<This was my initial thought also.  I have seen references of this fish reaching lengths of nearly 10 inches.>
If they can really live in a 15 or 20G do you think I would be able to keep a group (2-3) in a 90G tank?
<According to what RMF has previously posted, yes in theory this should be OK.  RMF, this is correct?> <<Yes. RMF>>
I read that they live in groups in the sea but do you think that they would get along in an aquarium?
<Yes, in theory.>
Thanks for your time.
<You are quite welcome.>
Please do tell me if I am taking up too much of your time. I'm guessing you don't get paid so I don't want to take advantage of you.
<I have very much enjoyed our exchanges, the pleasure is mine!  I look forward to more.>
I hope you had a great weekend.
<And you also!  -Mich>
Tom

Inquiry on Fish Compatibility
Hello-
Yesterday I added a small Black and White Heniochus (Alias: Wimplefish, Poor Man's Moorish Idol) to my 55 gallon fish-only tank. My tank is now fully stocked and it is not being readily "accepted into the tribe". The main bully is my large Sailfin Tang, I realize that they look similar, but my Sailfin Tang had never displayed any amount of aggression the whole time I have owned him. It has only been a day so it is probably still too soon to establish any kind of permanent problems, but is there anything I can do to get them to cooperate with each other?
Thanks, Dillon
>>
Hmm, not too much... Maybe leave a light on outside the tank overnight for a few days... to allow all to see each other and avoid injury (running into rock, the tank's sides...)... This is about "it".
Bob Fenner, who hopes they will all "settle in"

Heniochus Butterflies.
I was considering putting butterflyfish in my 240g reef. My LFS has a pair of common henis for sale. I have read these are a planktivore. Do you think these are very likely to devour all of my worms and corals. 
<Possibly some of the worms if they're small, but the genus Heniochus rarely consume coral polyps... more interested in floating crustaceans et al.>
Also what are the best butterflies for a reef environment that are also easily sustained. 
<Thanks for asking, have rated most all species, and posted the rating system on our site: Home Page , please take a long read there...>
I noticed FFexpress has a nice Acropora samoenis coral for sale. Can I keep this under VHO lighting and have the coral stay green?
<Yes, if your water quality is good, and you can place this colony near the surface (in a stable, well circulated area, it should do fine.>
Thanks Everett >>
<You're welcome, Bob Fenner>

Banner Fish in Reef System?
Bob,
I was in my LFS yesterday and saw a beautiful black and white banner fish. It is about 4” in size and looks very health. I like to bring it home however currently I have several corals in my tank. Is the banner fish reef safe? I have read several articles regarding this fish and the suggestions are somewhat different from one to another. Just like to have you expertly. Thanks and always appreciate your help.
<Most Heniochus Butterflies as species, individuals are "reef-safe"... unless very hungry, in too small a system. Please read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/heniochu.htm and the associated FAQs. Bob Fenner>
Wayne

Fish questions this time
Hello and good evening guys and girls,
<<And hello to you...>>
This evening I have a question regarding my little fishies :)
<<Ok.>>
I just got a Heniochus diphreutes and have a few questions, my scopas tang is chasing him around and he is picking at my feather dusters and on the brittle star as well. I was assured in the shop that he is reef safe, but am beginning to think otherwise. <<Well, did the shop reassure the fish that it is reef-safe? I mean... the fish obviously has its own plans. Did you quarantine this fish by any chance? It's a great opportunity to get them used to other foods before release into the main system.>>
Also my tomato clown has discovered a piece of live rock that he likes. This rock is sitting on some crushed coral substrate, he is methodically clearing a hollow in the substrate around this rock and dropping them in another area of the tank. Any theories?? <<House cleaning/organization - that would be my theory.>>
Last but not least, I was feeding the bubble coral and he ate his Mysis shrimp, later after the lights were off I was watching and the cleaner shrimp swarmed over him and pulled the Mysis out of his mouth. I had also previously fed the cleaner shrimp a piece of krill earlier. <<Was there a question there? You might try something a little finer for the bubble coral so that it's not so slow to uptake, and so easy to steal by the shrimp.>>
Ok keeping it short this evening, thanks again for answering my second question this week.
Cheers.
Julian Hunt
<<And cheers to you. J -- >>

Cleaner shrimp, polyps, Heniochus
Hello again,
I recently added a cleaner shrimp (Lysmata grabhami, I think) to my 75 gal. Setup which includes some yellow polyps and green button polyps. I've seen the shrimp "sampling" the polyps several times, causing them to close up. Do you think this causing harm to the polyps?
<The shrimp is probably bugging them more than anything else, I doubt they are in any danger.>
On a similar note, I'm interested in Heniochus Bannerfish. I've read that H. diphreutes is reef safe, but H. acuminatus is not. Do you agree? <yes> Would a pair of H. diphreutes be suitable for a 75 gal. that is otherwise lightly-loaded?
Thank very much, and thanks for maintaining such a valuable site.
John H.
<Thank you for the kind words, and I promise, the site is only going to get better. A pair of the H. diphreutes would be much better suited than the H. acuminatus. You can find more information on butterflyfishes at the link below. Best Regards, Gage
http://wetwebmedia.com/BFsBestWrst.htm>

Re: butterfly with mushrooms and star polyps
Steven,
One last question, what about the wimple fish/banner fish/Heniochus? Would they eat star polyps and mushrooms?
<It depends on species.>
I was under the impression these fish are planktivores?
<H. diphreutes is, H. acuminatus is not.>
If so, can 2 fish be kept easily? Or is 3 a lot better?
<I have seen both, but it depends on species, size of tank, mated pair or not.>
Cheers, Matt
<Have a nice day. -Steven Pro>

Heniochus Reef Safe? - 8/23/03
Hi... I just want to ask if a Heniochus diphreutes B/F eats corals? or what coral is compatible with heni's? thanks Ü
<most butterflies and close kin are a calculated risk with sessile invertebrates... do read more in our archives at wetwebmedia.com about better species. For likely "safer" corals, you will want to look almost exclusively at soft corals, and then at the noxious/toxic ones like gorgonians and zooanthids in particular. Best regards, Anthony>

Heniochus Butterflies
Hi Guys-
First of all, I want to say GREAT job on the book.  I received my autographed copy a couple of weeks ago.  It was well worth the wait.  
<Thank you for your kind words>
Second, I am in the process of trying to obtain a couple of Heniochus Diphreutes.  My LFS has a couple of beautiful 2 1/2" Heniochus' that arrived
last week that are in quarantine.  Unfortunately, the LFS cannot be sure whether the fish are H. Diphreutes or H. acuminatus.  Since I plan to
introduce these fish into my reef tank, it is important that I get the H. Diphreutes.  Can you recommend a way to differentiate between the two fish?
<Mmm, easier to do with both species in front of you. Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/heniochu.htm
where both are presented... with the most common differences noted (size of mouth and "chest" area>
Also, how important is it for H. Diphreutes to be in a "school".  They are going into a lightly stocked 135G tank (2 ocellaris, yellow tang, royal
Gramma, C. solorensis), but I imagine more than one butterfly will eat up the living space pretty rapidly.
<They do show best kept in a couple... Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Bret Packard

Bannerfish and Corals 5/26/04
Hi Crew, Hope you had a pleasant weekend!
<Thanks! You too.>
Have recently purchased Bannerfish; were labeled and sold as Heni. acuminatus but are actually diphreutes. My mushrooms have been safe so far should I say!!! The LFS says mushrooms are not bothered by diphreutes as well as leather coral. After looking through your FAQ on Bannerfish I still have a question. What if any polyps or other corals are not eaten by diphreutes. I was particularly interested in Zoanthus polyps group or could you suggest some other hardy corals safe with diphreutes.
<Most if not all corals should be safe with most specimens of H. Diphreutes.>
Could you also recommend an informative book on anemones?
<Yes! "Anemone Fishes and Their Host Sea Anemones: A Guide for Aquarists and Divers" by Fautin and Allen. It is a bit out of date and not super complete, but remains the best aquarium reference on this specific topic.>
Thanks once again for your much appreciated help and expertise and look forward to your reply. Regards Ceil Wagaman
<Glad to help! Adam>

Asfur Angel Stocking Concern
Dear Mike D.:
Thanks for your response.<Back again, and you're welcome>  The pygmy angelfish I'm referring to is the cherub angelfish, and I introduced him at the same time as the Flameback with both of equal size.  This method usually works well in larger tanks, and the two of them are truly best buddies in this tank.<Since they've settled in so well, they may end up being far closer than you ever dreamed.  Keep an eye peeled for spawning activity>  My question is in regards to the Heniochus.  I've never kept one in the past.  Would you recommend a single specimen, or a small shoal of say four members?<Although they usually do fine alone, there are some real advantages with a shoal, particularly with the Schooling Bannerfish (Heniochus diphreutes)>  Would a Bannerfish be able to hold its ground against an angel such as this one?<At full size, very little can hold it's own against a large Asfur, and again, here's where a small shoal might work well. It's difficult to do much damage to one fish if they all look alike, the old "dither" principle>  And, within the Heniochus group is there one particular type that stands out regarding durability, etc.?<I suppose you'd think you were being set up if I told you that the diphreutes was both the most common and the hardiest, eh?>  Finally, the larger gobies you are referring to I'll assume are types like the brown barred goby and so forth.  Aren't most of these sand sifters?<Many are, but the gobies that are large enough to handle regular aquarium fare usually do quite well. I have a spawning trio (species unknown) in my 100 gal. tank at the moment that all shoot to the top and "stick to the glass", waiting for food when I approach, thus being among the best fed fish in the tank>  I guess I'm concerned that they'll not be able to find adequate amounts of food in the substrate since I already have two white sand stars in this tank.  Is this a valid concern?<Possibly, but here my concern would be more for the sea stars than for the gobies.  My sand sifting stars showed me that they could climb the glass for food as well, and now are individually spot fed on small pieces of meaty food and are up to almost 5" across each and still growing.>  Thanks again!<You're welcome and best of luck>
Sam Mancini  

Compatibility of Black & White Heniochus?
Are the following completely compatible together? << Nothing is completely compatible, but we can generalize here. >>
Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish (Heniochus  acuminatus)
Tiger Tail Sea Cucumber (Holothuria sp.)
Red Sea Star (Fromia milleporella)
Squamosa Clam (Tridacna squamosa)
Blue Tuxedo Pincushion Urchin (Mespilia globulus)
<< Yes, I would say these items are fine in a reef tank together. >>
Second question: Are there ANY corals that the Heniochus Butterflyfish (Heniochus acuminatus) is compatible with? << Certainly.  They are known to pick at zoanthids and small polyps, but I've seen many Heniochus in reef tanks living fine with large soft colt corals and mushroom anemone rocks.  Every fish has its own personality, but these fish are commonly seen in reef tanks. >>
<<  Blundell  >>

Adding Heniochus Butterflyfish
Hello Wetwebmedia crew. I'd like to start by giving all of you a big thank you for spending your time to help those of us who need it. Until now I have always found the answers  to my questions in your FAQ files.
<There are lifetimes of development and sharing to go>
Last November I added three two inch Heniochus butterflyfish to my 125 gallon FOWLR tank and one died about three weeks later. I would like add another one but everything I've read says that they should all be added at the same time. Is there some way to add another and have them all get along? Would it help if I rearranged the live rock and made sure the fish were all the same size or should I just keep the two I have?
Thanks Eric
<The Butterflyfishes of this genus, particularly the most common acuminatus, secondarily diphreutes, are actually quite "mixable" and you should have little difficulty adding to their number. For looks sake, one/s of about the same size should be sought. Bob Fenner>

The Never Ending Heniochus Query  9/24/05
Hey Bob.  
<He's agreed to let me answer this one...again.>
How big do Heniochus diphreutes get compared to acuminatus?
<Well I have answered this one in the previous query but you can always check for yourself in the WWM FAQ’s.>
I know  both of these fishes max. size in wild, but what about in captivity?  
<On average slightly smaller, however I feel it necessary to mention that as responsible aquarists we should always plan for the largest potential size of any given animal.>
And if I  keep two Diphreutes together in a 70g tank will they school?
<Most fish who are “schoolers” (when in captivity) just tend to hang out rather than follow each other in all but the largest of systems.>
  Is it more likely for this fish to school than Acuminatus?
<About the same in my experience.>
  My tank is ready and am looking forward to stocking it after almost a year!!
<My friend I know I may have come across slightly frustrated but this is your 4th query this week on the same subject, I have answered twice and Bob has answered once. It appears you are fishing for an answer that suits you and not necessarily the truth. In my opinion both of these animals will outgrow your given time due to their swimming behavior.  Bob on the other hand said its “possible” for you to keep one but not a school. Take both answers and come to a solution.  Should you have any other questions feel free to reply. If this has anyway damaged your view of our free service, I apologize. For reference your previous queries are now posted in the Heniochus FAQ’s near the top.>
Thanks Bob
Jeff
<Wishing you and your new tank well, Adam J.>

Bannerfish and Yellow Tang  9/8/05
Hello,
I just added a Bannerfish (AKA poor man's Moorish Idol, Wimplefish, etc.) and two Fiji Blue Devils to a fairly new 75 gallon tank. The only fish I had so far were a Yellow Tang and a Maroon Clownfish. Almost as soon as the Bannerfish was added the Yellow Tang started to attack him with his tail spine/scalpel.
I removed the tang and put him in the quarantine tank to give the Bannerfish time to get used to the display tank and start eating. I also rearranged the rocks where the Tang likes to hide so when I put him back in he will have to reestablish his territory. Are these fish not compatible or will things calm
down a bit later on? Thanks, <Normal behavior for the tang, things will calm down, and a good move in rearranging rock.  Do read up on Bannerfish on the WWM for more info on your purchase.  James (Salty Dog)>
-Adam-

Re: Catching Heniochus diphreutes Eric Russell's Way - It Really Works!  - 11/30/05
Hey there,
<<Hey Dave!>>
Yes, just waiting two days did the trick, just for superstitions' sake, I made a new trap out of a perfectly clear 2 liter plastic bottle and used fishing line instead of string (believe it or not, I'm sure the last Heniochus looked at that white string and just didn't like the looks of it.).
<<Ah yes...agreed.>>
At any rate I didn't have the bottle in the tank 10 min. before the fish swam right in it. Thanks!
<<Glad to hear all ended well.>>
Now it just so happens the store where I originally got the 3 Bannerfishes (took them back for full credit) sold a large (375g.) tank and they need a home for a beautiful Vlamingi??
<<Vlamingii...as in Naso vlamingii...Bignose unicornfish...>>
Tang. They are willing to give it to me, but I'm a little leery about how it will do with the Naso lituratus I already have.
<<Mmm...>>
I have not looked up the fish yet, but was interested in your opinion, if you have the time.
<<Compatibility issues aside, the Naso vlamingii is a LARGE fish, growing to nearly 30" in the wild...even a 300 gallon tank will become "small" in time, and yours is hardly "empty" now. I think you would do better to get the Anthias as previously considered...this is my opinion.>>
Thanks again
Dave Harvey,
<<Regards, EricR>>
BTW, the Trachyphyllia already looks much, much better without the clowns, and the Banners.
<<Excellent! Makes a difference when you're not being battered/consumed alive <G>. EricR>>

Re: Catching Heniochus diphreutes? II - 12/01/05
Hello again!
<<Hi Dave!>>
Yeah, although it is a beautiful fish, and I would even possibly consider giving up the Naso tang, to be able to have the Vlamingii, it is obvious to me that it is just too big (or soon will be) for my tank.
Thanks again
Dave Harvey
<<Best for all in the end my friend. EricR>>

H. Diphreutes And Trachyphyllia (Yum-Yum) - 11/26/05
Dear WWM staff,
<<Howdy>>
I read and read and have become very, very friendly with all staff at LFS (My son even works there now).  But the more I discuss, and the more I read, the more I realize how much I don't know and how many different approaches may be successful... or not.
<<You "are" learning then.>>
At any rate: I have over the past year set up a 300G tank (96"X30"X24"), 90G sump; actually 50 G sump connected to 40 G cryptic refugium with about a dozen or so different non-photosynthetic sponges.
<<Neat!>>
Have just slowly started adding livestock over the past couple months.  Livestock: 1 Naso Tang about 7", 1 Harlequin Tusk about 4", 1 Banggai Cardinal about 5", 1 Magnificent Rabbit about 6", 3 Bannerfish (Diphreutes) about 3.5", 1 Chevron Tang (Strigosus?) about 3" 
<<Mmm, probably Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis...look here: Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis. >>, 1 Blue spotted Jawfish about 3",  1 Lawnmower Blenny about 4", 1 Male Filamented Flasher Wrasse about 3", 1 very small Hectori Goby, ...just got rid of a pair of  beautiful Ocellaris today, 2 Queen Conchs (very small still), 12 large Turbo snails, about 12 smallish Trochus snails, 2 Peppermint Shrimp (although I think the Tusk may have gotten them by now).
<<Now or later...>>
Corals: all still small with the exception of a fairly large  
Plerogyra sinuosa.: a few Ricordea-both Yuma and Florida, Euphylliids-one medium large Torch, one medium Ancora, various mushrooms, one  medium Sinularia (cabbage), one very small long-tentacle Sarcophyton, one very small Pocillopora, one very small Montipora digitata, a  medium Trumpet with 7 polyps, one very small Blastomussa merleti, a relatively large but still localized colony of Xenia <<for now>>, one small Blue Sponge, one colony medium-large Star Polyps, a very small Entacmaea quadricolor that I resuscitated after all it's tentacles were rubbed off by an extremely obnoxious black Ocellaris (since removed), 3 rock anemones (one has divided twice), one medium-large Condylactis (Haitian purple tip).
<<Ugh...you were doing pretty good till you got to the anemones.  These motile animals have no place in a tank with sessile invertebrates.  You have a nice collection of aggressive corals which can be trouble enough...if those anemones decide to go "walkabout" it's going to be very ugly for all.  Even if they stay put, the chemical/biological warfare being waged will eventually lead to the detriment of everything.>>
Water chemistry has been great, nothing out of the ordinary, recommended ranges (by you guys, Fossa et al, Paletta, etc.).
Lighting: four 96w VHOs, One 400w 12,000K MH, two 250w HQIs
Flow: return pump about 1200gph, one Tunze 6200 Stream, one Tunze  
WaveBox, about 260# of live rock, over 3 areas from left to right as you face the tank
1. a slope from the left side and top gradually widening to about 1.5 feet at substrate level.
2. a central islandic bommie about a foot in diameter and to height   of about 1.5 feet roughly in the middle of the tank, but perhaps just slightly rightward.
3. a multiple cave system from the right side of the tank meandering leftward almost to the central bommie.
<<What's a "bommie"?  Marina>>
<<<Marina, a "bommie" is basically a pile of rock, surrounded by substrate, not touching other rockwork.  -SCF>>>
<<Sounds very nice...good to hear someone "not" building the usual rock "wall".>>
The sand bed is sugar fine and about 6 to 8" deep, this was seeded  
with about 30 pounds of live sand from my 35g.
<<Does the trick nicely, but may I suggest getting a cup or three from fellow aquarists/LFS to increase the bio-diversity.>>
I have a fairly large area towards the right side of coarser aragonite and rubble for the jawfish.
<<Ah yes...needs bits to bolster the walls of the burrow.>>
Now, sorry to be so long winded, but I thought perhaps if you know  
how the tank is the question will make sense and allow a more  
thorough answer.
<<Indeed it does.>>
I thank you heartily in advance:  I have had a gorgeous Pacific Rose Trachyphyllia for a year. The above mentioned black clown kept rubbing at it and it remained closed until I got rid of the clown.  Then it pretty much flourished with great color, feeding response, and expansion in a 35g.  I transferred it into the 300g about 2 months ago and thought it looked fine; when expanded its diameter was about 4-6".  I got the 3 H. diphreutes <<uh-oh>> on 10/28.  I have read that though they are generally better in a reef than H. acuminatus, they will pick on a sick or dying coral.
<<Mmm, no...not limited to "sick or dying".>>
Up until a week ago they did not bother the Trachyphyllia, then they started picking at it.
<<Not atypical...>>
I have to admit I couldn't really tell whether they were just  
aggressively going after mucous output, or actual tissue, but with the combination of the two Ocellaris (I got rid of them yesterday)  
rubbing at the brain, it just closed down completely, very small, no tissue expansion, no feeding response.
<<And will remain this way until its demise, in the presence of the Bannerfish.>>
I removed the Trachyphyllia to my 12g hospital/quarantine tank.
<<Smart move>>
I couldn't believe my eyes the next day, the Trachyphyllia was gigantic, a diameter easily 8-10" and the tissue so inflated that some of it was actually floating off the substrate.
<<Hee!  Helps when you're (the Trachyphyllia) not being eaten alive!>>  
Ate Cyclop-eeze, oyster eggs, live rotifers very well and even a   couple small krill.
<<Do keep the pieces very small (minced).>>
After a week of just phenomenal expansion, and color, I thought since the clowns were gone now I would try to re-introduce the brain back into the 300g.
<<Uh-oh...again (dinner bell ringing in the background)...>>
I acclimated it (as I do everything) over 1.5 hours with continuous drip, then gently placed it back in the same spot it had previously occupied...the Bannerfish immediately started picking at it, the brain closed down, but not completely and the tissue was not so constricted that is wasn't still "mushy".
<<Still...not a good "condition" for the brain.>>
Then I noticed that the Bannerfish trio was not actually picking tissue but gulping mucous.
<<Will still likely lead to the brain's demise.>>
I watched closely for the better part of 2 hours, and I don't think they picked off any tissue, but the brain still stayed closed.
<<Yup>>
Should I just give back the diphreutes?
<<If you want to keep the brain, yes.>>
Should I see how things go?
<<I think we all know how things will "go"...>>
The brain is so magnificent when fully expanded and I have become so attached to it, that I would gladly evict the Heniochus (if I can  catch them) before ever giving up the Trachyphyllia.
<<There's your answer.>>
Thanks again for reading all of this.  Any comments, criticisms,  suggestions, general thoughts about the tank would be greatly  appreciated.
<<Already stated>>
p.s. After reading Fossa and Nilsson’s "Reef Secrets" I am greatly  intrigued by the idea of a large number of Lyretail Anthias in the  tank (they suggest 60 in a 190g tank) I was thinking more along the  
lines of perhaps 2 to 3 dozen. Thoughts??
<<A good choice as far as Anthiinae go (I have some of these in my 375g reef), if you get rid of the three Heniochus, I think 8-10 would make a nice addition...must consider the other large fishes already in the display.>>
Thanks again so much,
Dave Harvey
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: H. Diphreutes And Trachyphyllia (Yum-Yum) - 11/27/05
Thanks so much for your reply.
<<Very welcome>>
Yes it is a Ctenochaetus strigosus (Kole Tang, not Chevron, sorry.).
<<Ah, ok>>
Have taken your advice, and have removed 2 of the Heniochus, have not been able to catch the third yet.
<<Can be an "adventure", to say the least.>>
Have not seen the E. quadricolor move at all and have had him over a year.
<<Lucky so far.>>
Yes the Condy has moved, but just up and down along the same plane.
<<Lucky again. <G> >>
At the LFS they have a huge (HUGE!!) E. quadricolor in a pretty well stocked (with both LPS, SPS, and softies) 220g with 2 A. clarkii that occupy the Bubbletip. Even so, I take it your experiences have not been good with anemones in a reef. Would like to hear more about this if you're willing.
<<Happy to Dave... I'm not telling you it can't be done, there certainly will be/are exceptions, but for the majority of hobbyists, mixing motile anemones with sessile invertebrates leads to tragedy, though sometimes it takes a while (even years) to manifest. And often so, the ultimate loser in all this is the anemone. Some have suggested these animals may be immortal...only succumbing to predation, disease, starvation, etc.. Considering this, how many folks do you know that have been able to keep an anemone for ten years? five years?
<<Like spitting in the ocean when one considers the natural lifespan of many of these animals.  MH>>
Anemones require excellent water quality/tank conditions, and fending off constant attack in a closed system does not fall in to this category. Even all this aside, do consider that when I answer queries I have no idea of your knowledge/experience/dedication to the hobby. It's my task to try to steer you, and those who read this, in a direction that is likely to succeed. And in my opinion, keeping anemones in a reef tank is not a formula for long-term success. I don't expect you/anyone to blindly take my advice...it is my wish to inspire you/others to think before acting, to do your own research, and to make informed decisions.>>
Thanks so much, Dave Harvey
<<Welcome my friend, EricR>>

Catching Heniochus diphreutes? - 11/27/05
Hello again,
<<Hello Dave>>
I did catch two of my three diphreutes (with a bottle trap) that were picking on my Pacific Rose Trachyphyllia. There is absolutely no way to catch the last one with a net in my tank (many, many hiding places) and at least for right now this last fish seems completely uninterested in the food in the bottle trap.
<<I would cease all efforts for a few days, give the fish a chance to calm down, and then try the trap again.>>
For the other two I placed 1 Marine-Two pellet, some frozen Mysid shrimps, some Cyclop-eeze. Might you suggest any other thoughts, tips, food suggestions to get this last Bannerfish out of my tank?
<<The foods seem fine (might try some live brine shrimp), and the trap is probably your best bet...but this fish is "riled up/wise to you now" and needs to be left alone for a couple/three days, maybe longer, before resuming.>>
Thanks again so much,
Dave Harvey
<<Regards, EricR>>

Soft Corals With A Heniochus chrysostomus - 11/05/05
Crew,
<<Hello>>
I recently bought a Heniochus chrysostomus, and found out the hard way that it dines on some types of coral.
<<Yes, as do all in this genus...even Heniochus diphreutes, which is considered moderately reef-safe by some.>>
I have only recently converted my tank to a reef tank and only had two corals, a finger leather that I bought to start with, and a small Galaxea coral that was a freebie on a piece of live rock I bought.
<<Love those freebies!>>
It was still a small coral, but I had dubbed it "the little coral that could" as it was starting to spread and thrive in my tank. But in less than a week of being picked at by the Heniochus, it was gone.
<<bummer>>
Very sad. However, the Heni leaves the leather alone, as I have read on your site is often the case.
<<Yes, though really still a "crap-shoot" as to what they will bother.>>
What I'm wondering is what other types of soft corals might I have luck with as I add to my tank that would coexist with the Heniochus?
<<Impossible to say really. You can try adding specimens and watching them closely for predation, but my best advice is to remove the Heniochus if you really want to keep a reef tank.>>
My wife really likes the corals that "flow" in the current.
<<Mine too!>>
Prior to adding the Heni, I was planning on adding a pulsing xenia and daisy polyp (not sure of the proper name).
<<Mmm...could be Pachyclavularia or Alveopora maybe?>>
Any chance for either of these two?
<<Likely these will become fish food...>>
Others that would work and "go with the flow"?
<<Nothing I'm certain of, I've seen these fish even eat noxious zooanthids. This will have to be trial and error on your part...or get rid of the fish.>>
Thanks
<<Regards, EricR>>

Heniochus singularius  12/21/05
Hello and Happy Holidays!.  Today you posted my question titled "Heniochus Singularius", (dated 12/21), but failed to add any response.  I appreciate that its a busy time, and I'm sure you guys are cranking out as much as possible.  Hopefully. you can revisit my question.  I do get the sense from last night's research that any small polyp-type corals will be fish food, but I am mainly concerned for the Ricordea, the large clams/oysters attached to the rock, as well as the hermits and snails.  Will the H. singularius also eat pods, putting my Mandarin at risk.  The ultimate size of this fish also concerns me in a 75 gallon.
Thank You!
<Sorry re. This entire genus is largely zooplanktivorous. I don't think you'll have problems with it ingesting Cnidarian polyps nor outcompeting your Mandarin if there's room for both. Bob Fenner>
While at my LFS today, I came upon a Heniochus that looked slightly different than the type commonly seen in most stores.  I was sure I had stumbled upon a Heniochus Diphreutes, which I learned on this web site would be a better choice for a reef.  Once I got the fish home and compared it to pics on this site, as well as several others on the web, I realized that I had actually purchased a Heniochus Singularius.  My current set-up is a 75 gallon with live sand and 60 lbs of live rock.  The only corals are some Ricordea as well as some polyps that came on the rock.  The rock also has several attached oysters/clams.  I also have many blue-legged hermits and several different types of algae eating snails.  As for fish, I have a maroon clown, a velvet damsel, royal Gramma and a Mandarin.  The tank has been running for 9 months and is very healthy.  How safe will this new fish be with my current set-up.  I could easily remove the Ricordea, and was not planning on adding additional corals.  I would like to keep a good population of hermits and snails, and am curious how the bivalves will fare.  You had responded to an earlier e-mail that a Heniochus would probably not do much damage to the live rock, but am curious to know if H. Singularius changes the equation.   Thank You!

Heniochus intermedius    1/19/06
Hey crew and specifically to whoever's answering questions tonight. <James this AM>
I'm planning a 10' long tank and was looking at the Heniochus intermedius. I know opinions on whether or not Heni's are reef safe are not are varied even on the WWM staff (I know Mr. Fenner usually states them as reef-safe barring individual personalities), but this is usually stated about Diphreutes or about the genus in general. My question is how does the Intermedius fare on the reef-safe scale? Is it generally safe like Diphreutes or not traditionally so as with the Acuminatus? Any help you can give would be great. <As with all Heniochus/butterflies the Red Sea Banner Fish possess individual personalities and while one may not bother anything, another may wipe out your worm population.  The mouth is designed for poking in crevices and retrieving worms and such.>
Also, if considered reef-safe for the most part, would I still be looking at losing all of my fan worms if I were to have 5 in a 10' long tank? <The chance you will have to take my friend, no guarantees.  James (Salty Dog)> <<If hungry, Banner Butterflyfishes will definitely consume tubiculous polychaete worms. RMF>>
Thanks. <You're welcome>
Nick