Re: bacterial infection  7/7/08
Bob (or whomever could respond),
<Am here>
I read your comments to my last question yesterday about the swollen, cloudy eye on my French and queen angels in my 600 gallon system. My mistake on the Nitrate values, that should have been 5-10 and not .15 (sorry),
<Ah, thank you for this clarification>
pH of the water is around 8.0 and nitrites are not measurable. You had questioned as to whether my maroon clown protects my anemone from the angels, etc and the answer is YES.
<Good>
I can't even try to move or touch the anemone myself without the clownfish trying to kill me and the anemone is doing great (not certain of the species). All the fish were quarantined in multiple "hospital tanks" prior to going into the main system for 3 weeks (I had to rent multiple tanks from the LFS due to the aggression and no. of fish involved so I could still add them around the same time). The niger was the last fish added. None of the fish showed any evidence of ich, Lymphocystis, cloudy eyes, or anything else during that time. My ozonizer is set to keep the ozone level at 350-400 (not certain of units here) which is set up based on the instructions with the device.
<This is about right>
The LFS uses multiple ozonizers on their tanks and they also help set this one up. I am planning on getting a refugium for this tank also in the near future.
<Good>
My main question was: do I have any option to treat for these probable bacterial or fungal diseases on these angels with some kind of medicated food (I don't really believe in garlic stuff, and I am currently supplementing with Selcon) if I am unable to catch these guys in this tank to place into quarantine.
<Mmm, a tough choice to make... I don't think antibiotic laced food would do any harm here... store bought/commercially made or DIY, but also am dubious re how much good it might do as well>
Some of the pieces of live rock in this tank weigh between 90-100 lbs. To have to get these fish out, I think I would have to get a good portion of the live rock out too and I think that will be pretty stressful on the fish also. I have read about using a non barb fish hook to capture fish like this, but how do you avoid some of the fish you don't want captured from getting on the hook?
<Maybe only by being "a good fisher">
They all go after food very aggressively.
<A good sign>
Also, even if I get these "affected" fish out and in the quarantine tank, how will I know that my system is not still "infected". So wouldn't I have to just get all the fish out to put in quarantine to somehow treat the tank itself anyway in addition to just treating the fish?
<A bit of reading re infectious agents... your, all systems are "infected" to degrees, kinds... A/the larger issue is whether the preponderance of given likelihood weighs toward action or no>
And if so, how do I keep these 11 or 12 aggressive fish from killing each other in a small quarantine tank for several weeks? When I initially added the fish, I had rented several quarantine tanks from the LFS, but I just don't have room, capability to have all those around all the time. I guess I could rent them again from the LFS. (and yes, I do clean the tanks well before using them)
<I would not move these fishes myself...>
I am actually wondering if this could be trauma related, because the angels love to turn sideways to get at certain areas of the rock at the water surface to pick at algae
<Mmm, are quite agile...>
and I wonder if that could be why the left eye only is affected in both fish?
<A coincidence surely>
It would be the left eye that is close to the rock when they are in this position which is what makes me think of this. If it were bacterial/fungal, wouldn't both eyes be affected? The fish don't have any other marks on them and no visible signs of ich that I have seen anywhere.
<... again, depending on root cause/s>
In any event, should I still tear the tank down, removing hundreds of lbs of live rock, etc and get all these fish out even if they are acting and eating normally?
<I would assuredly not do this>
None of them are hiding or acting irregular and they continue to eat any foods I put in the tank for them. The two angels are eating very well and do actively graze around all the time. They sometimes show aggression toward each other or their tankmates, but nothing causing any fin damage or long term problems.
<Fine>
And finally, realizing that consistent water changes and water quality is of paramount importance (and water quality is great at this time), what would prevent this from happening next month or 6 months from now, even if I don't add any other livestock (which I don't plan on doing as I feel the tank is fully stocked given the potential size these fish could attain)? I just don't want to be tearing my whole setup down that frequently if you know what I mean. This is a little tougher than a 30 or 50 gallon system to catch the fish and do all that.
Thanks,
Steve
<Really just time going by here... should see this situation rectify itself. I would do nothing overt. BobF>

Re: bacterial infection  7/7/08
Bob,
<Steve>
Thank you for the very quick response on my problem. I will keep an eye (no pun intended) on the eyes of my angels and hope for the best right now.
<Good. Is what I would do as well>
Let me ask your opinion on a different matter with this 600 gallon system: Assuming this cloudy eye problem resolves and everything is "back to normal", there were a few more fishes that I was considering for this tank in the future. My current "crew" is as follows: niger trigger (3 inches), blue cheek trigger (4-4.5 inches), Volitans lion (6 inches), panther grouper (6 inches), maroon gold banded clown (3-3.5 inches), lunare wrasse (7-7.5"), harlequin tusk wrasse (7"), porcupine puffer (4"), French angel (4"), queen angel (6.5-7"), emperor angel (4-4.5"), powder blue tang (4.5"), and Naso tang (9").
I have been wanting to add an epaulette shark and a snowflake eel to the group at some point but my LFS can't find an eel large enough that won't slip through the overflow box slits and the shark is just hard to find period.
<And likely hard to feed here... too much competition>
The guy at my LFS also thinks the eel (and maybe the shark as well) would not be a good idea because they can dig enough in the sand which may cause the BIG pieces of live rock to topple or become unsteady and maybe hit the glass in front or back. Your thoughts?
<Mmm, a minor matter here in my estimation. Am sure you've set the larger rock down first, before the sand... that it's stable...>
I would also like to get a Picasso Trigger in several months to give these fish even more time to "establish dominance" in the tank and if I did I would get him quite small because I know they can get rather mean with age.
<Less so than the Niger almost always>
My LFS guy says he would NOT get the Picasso Trigger due to its attitude later in life. He says it would be fine early on with the other fish being in there a while and it being small, but over time it would become too mean. Your thoughts?
<Posted... see WWM re the Balistids. BobF>
Steve