Tank and stocking questions, NO3, and lg. SW sys. stkg. f's  9/6/09
Hello. Here is the info I sent to Mr. Fenner last week. I thought it might be helpful:
<Morning John>
Hey Mister Fenner thanks so much for your help. It is most appreciated as always. I have another question for you, or whomever is there if you have the time. I read all your sites posts on Nitrates but I am still confused at why I keep having this problem. My 450 is stocked with about 500 pounds of liverock. 300 pounds originally and another 200 of lace rock <Very often a source of too much ortho phosphate... See Marco's article:
http://wetwebmedia.com/phosphatemar.htm>
added gradually to be seeded by the live rock. about 5 to 6" of live sand, added more as time passed. I am running a dual refugium 2 twenty gallon ones connected in the sump one with crushed live rock rubble and the other with green algae. I run a timed florescent light at night and natural sunlight during the day. The tank takes up the entire wall between 2 windows of my den and has great sunlight from all sides of the room. I have a top of the line skimmer rated for my system and electronic heating system. I run 8 powerheads front, side and back to create cross currents.
I do a 20% water change faithfully every 2 weeks. The system is terminally stocked and holds one 8" queen angel, one 8" clown trigger ( I watch him closely as advised by you years ago), one 8" niger trigger, one 6" Bluechin trigger, one 6" Aussie harlequin tusk, one 12" Atlantic blue tang, one 7" princess parrot, one 10" orange toadfish (fed once a week), one 8" lunare wrasse, and two golden morays, 15" each (fed once a week or once every 2 weeks). I feed the fish sushi Nori in the a.m., a small amount of spectrum large fish formula at noon and a small amount of chopped frozen octopus, squid, clam, shrimp, crab, scallop, (one of these) at night. My entire home is run on a r/o system and their are zero nitrates present in the water. I
use instant ocean as my mix and arm and hammer baking soda for the ph. My main issue is that after 4 years I just can't get my nitrates down to anywhere near zero. They normally run in the 40 to 80 range and are as high as 160. I am extremely frustrated as I put a lot of love, time and money into this hobby. I treat my fish like a dog or a cat. I read about a DIY coil denitrator as a possible help and have asked my LFS for advice but I seem to only get mixed opinions, none of which have worked. They did tell me I am overfeeding the fish so I am going to cut that back if you advise me to do so. I am exhausted spending 10 hours the last 2 days trying to lower the nitrates with massive water changes and cleanings. I would greatly appreciate anything you could do to help me. Not much saltwater help here in Michigan. Thanks again Mister Fenner or whomever answers this.
<We're glad to share>
My new questions are as follows: I am converting the other half of my refugium to algae as well so I will have 40 gallons of it for nitrate reduction.
<Good>
the live rock rubble (40 pounds or so) is left now. I was wondering if it would be ok to put it into the holding tank for return water.
<Yes>
This is the only place in the sump i have room. Please advise me on this.
My high nitrates have been going on for 4 years now. I work so hard through big water changes once every 2 weeks and cleaning of the tank/aggressive skimming, but I cant keep them below 80 to 100. I started dosing with vodka with a formula I found on reefkepers.com last week. I just lost my 4 year old queen angel due to a mouth infection caused by the nitrates. When the tank gets where I want it through water changes, vodka dosing and the algae I want to replace the queen with another queen or other large angel.
<Start with whatever species at about 4 inches in length here>
With the fish I have listed i would appreciate any advice you have as to which would be the best fit.
<See WWM re large/r Pomacanthids...>
if not a large angel I would like to add a good sized Indian ocean Sailfin if you think the Atlantic blue would not kill it.
<Start with one about half the length of the Acanthurus coeruleus>
Lastly my aiptasia are out of control and I want to add a large raccoon butterfly to get them under control.
<Okay>
There is one at my LFS that they will save for me for up to a month. I witnessed him tearing up aiptasia and any foods they added. I would like any advice you have as far as adding him to the tank and his safety.
<During a day when you can be present, early in the AM so the lights are on... should be able to be introduced directly with what you list, have and the fact that the LFS has had on hand for a while>
I have heard they usually get along with other fish and vise versa.
<This is so>
I know this is a lot of questions but I am majorly stressed out about this entire thing. I treat my fish like dogs and cats and have had them and this 450 acrylic for 4 years now. As always i appreciate any help you guys give me. you have been a great resource for me for years now. Thank you.
<Mmm, I do want to say a bit more re the NO3 issue... is there space in your main display or room elsewhere to add another sump, tied in, to run a large DSB? Bob Fenner>

A little help from my friends. Prologue to and Stocking a fab 240 reef  9/5/09
Greetings,
<Salud!>
I think WWM is the greatest service ever provided to Reef Tank owners like me. The wealth of information here is incredible. I feel like a kid in a candy store, with a pocket full of dollar bills. I am on your site so much, my wife says I am addicted and has even hinted to an obsession with "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist".
<Could be worse!>
About five years ago, my son had a 55 gallon reef tank, while at college. A member of ROTC, summers were spent training and OBC beckoned. He left for military training and service. I inherited a scruffy reef tank. At first my wife and I laughed and thought, who would ever buy one of those dumb corals. We have a 6 year old grandson. THC obligatory Nemo, Marlin, Dory and Bubbles appeared. Yes that's right, a Zebrasoma flavescens and a Paracanthurus hepatus in a 55. Even worse about 6 months later I added a
Zebrasoma veliferum. Amazingly enough, even though they seemed to be thriving under my expertise of fish keeping, over a two year period, all died. Of course, I had to replace the blue and yellow, Dory nor Bubbles could just die. Funny thing, the LFS would keep suggesting and selling, if I kept buying.
<None of this surprising>
The hobby became a burden, due to my ignorance. Then the holy grail of aquarist information found me, WWM. I read and consumed like a sponge, Bookmarked and reread. I brought the 55 back to life. I was determined to do the right things for my livestock. The beauty and benefits they provide dictate I respond in-kind. After getting the 55 in reasonable shape, I decided to go bigger. I researched and now have the following set-up.
DT - 240 Acrylic
<Nice!>
Sump - ADHI Refugia model 60
Protein Skimmer - RE/Vertex Alpha 250 Cone
Lighting - AquaticLife 72" HID fixture (3-150W HID, 4-36" 39W 420/460 T5 HO's, 6 1w Lunar's)
Pump - Reeflo Dart God
Powerheads - EcoTech MP40W
*Water test history attached
<Dang! Can't figure out how to open>
The following live stock inhabit the tank.
Amphiprion ocellaris-2, Pterapogon kauderni-1, Nemateleotris decora-3,
Moved from the 55
Actinodiscus sp, colony blue and watermelon, Rhodactis sp Fluorescent Green, Rhodactis indosinensis, Sinularia dura, Clavularia viridis, Capnella sp., Goniopora lobata, Pseudopterogorgia bipinnata, purple ribbon Gorgonia,
The aquarium was filled with water on 5/3 and the cycle process started. I have been religious of checking water quality, for the most part it maintains steady. A little difficult to keep CA and MG at appropriate
levels. Now, I think it is ironed out.
I am now starting to want to slowly add fish. The ultimate and last fish in the tank I want to be an Acanthurus sohal. In addition to the 5 above and the sohal, I am leaning towards the Reef safe Wrasses. I very much like the following and think some or all would work; Cirrhilabrus naokoae, Cirrhilabrus tonozukai, Cirrhilabrus jordani, Cirrhilabrus Rhomboidalis, Paracheilinus carpenteri and once the tank is mature (1-2years) a Macropharyngodon negrosensis.
<Wow!>
Do you see a red flag with any of these? Can all co-exist?
<Can here, yes>
My research shows I can mix the Wrasses, generally speaking. However, I thought I would ask the experts. I am also looking for suggestions for any fish you think might work here, wrasse or not. I do not want the fish you see at every LFS, or every aquarium, i.e., yellow tang, lunare wrasse, etc.
I want more rare species with a little bit of a wow factor.
<Understood... I'd pare the list down to two, three species, and have a few more females in each harem myself...>
I also welcome any suggestions or criticism to what I am doing now.
Thank you in advance for your attention and education to me.
Greg Mason
<Thank you for sharing Greg. Bob Fenner>

240 Gallons Of Decisions, Decisions – 08/18/09
Hello all,
<<Greetings Shawn>>
I hope everyone is well, and finding their summer or winter (for those of you of the southern hemisphere) to be an enjoyable one.
<<So far so good…thanks!>>
I'm currently facing a dilemma that I hope someone can lend some experience to.
<<Alrighty>>
I want to build my dream reef system
<<Ah…a nice dilemma to have>>
and I want to combine my 2 current reef tanks (120 gallon 48X24X24, and 75 gallon 48X18X21) into a single 240 gallon system.
<<Okay…assuming the two systems are compatible>>
With that being said, I can't decide on what would be a better tank layout for the inhabitants that I want to combine. I'm concerned about some compatibility issues and would like to give enough space to minimize the need to exclude some of my beloved pets.
<<I see>>
I'm in a debate over whether a 48X48X24 tank or a 72X30X24 would be a better choice.
<<Mmm, yes… Both are excellent designs (I do like how you have made the depth greater than the height on the 6ft tank…as opposed to a “standard” build). I think maybe the location of or viewing vantage points of the system, type livestock, and/or type of reef “niche” you wish to replicate will determine the final choice>>
My thought for the 48 inch tank is to use a center overflow to create an island with various caves and overhangs that the fish can swim around.
<<And a perfect concept if this tank is to be viewed from ALL sides>>
I'd like to use powerheads to create a circulating current around the island and would use (2) 4 ft. fixtures, with 175 watt halide and T5 lighting.
<<Okay>>
The 72 inch setup would most likely be a standard dual rear overflow design with more traditional aquascaping
<<I hope “traditional” doesn’t mean the ubiquitous “rock wall.” There’s no reason not to be (and many reasons to be) more creative, even with the “traditional” rectangular tank>>
providing multiple small islands of rock with plenty of hiding spots. I'd need to buy a 72 inch light fixture with (3) 175 watt halides and PC lighting.
My current stock:
120 gallon - 4 inch purple tang, a male / female pair of tomato clowns, a male / female pair of Laboute's wrasses,
<<Neat!>>
5 resplendent anthias (all female so far). There are various SPS and LPS corals including Acropora, Montipora, Xenia, hammer and torch corals, brain coral, and zoos of all kinds. Kind of a mixed bag of everything.
<<Ah yes…the typical “mixed garden” reef [grin]>>
Two Crocea clams and a cleaner shrimp also live here. I've been blessed with little problems.
75 gallon - This tank is only 8 months old and houses a 3 inch yellow tang, a 3 inch regal tang,
<<The Regal is inappropriate for this size tank…glad you are upsizing>>
a male / female pair of percula clowns,
<<You may have issues combining the Clowns between the two systems>>
a male / female pair of flame wrasses,
<<Neat again!>>
and a scooter blenny. The tangs here are a big reason for the upgrade.
<<Indeed>>
There is a Maxima clam and some zoos in this tank as well. I'm obviously concerned about the wrasse pairs and the clown pairs being combined.
<<Less of a problem with the Wrasses than the Clowns, in my opinion. Even should you add multiple Anemone specimens (which I DO NOT advocate here), the Maroons would and will likely claim the whole tank against another Clown species>>
My hope is that space will be my friend and theirs as well.
<<There’s always exceptions…but I think you need another 100g or so here>>
I plan on adding the purple and yellow tangs together and if peace can't be found I'll part with a beloved pet.
<<Can be done… I have five tangs from four genera in my 375g reef display>>
I'm optimistic because it worked in my LFS with a yellow, purple and sailfin tang introduced at the same time.
<<The manner of introduction can play a big part, yes>>
I know that this is somewhat open to experience, and differs from fish to fish, but any thoughts on my system design, introduction order, and ANYTHING of note would be greatly appreciated.
<<Ultimately you have to decide which appeals most to you… The 4-foot square display would prove unique over most and provide for some interesting aquascaping options. The 6-foot display would prove better for the “patrolling” fishes you have. But… If you were to return the Regal Tang, I think you could get by with either option>>
Thanks to all of you for the service you provide.
<<Is our pleasure to assist>>
I'm sure you've saved many a hobbyist and many a fish with your help.
<<As are we… Thank you>>
Shawn Green,
Baltimore, MD
<<Eric Russell…in a hot and muggy Columbia, SC>>

Stocking List for 300g   6/4/09
Hey Crew. Quick question. I'm getting a 300g in a couple weeks and want to get as much feedback as possible on the stocking list I have planned for it.
Emperor Angel
Naso Tang
<I'd have more than one... perhaps two>
Spotted or Dogface Puffer
Picasso Trigger
Clown Trigger (juvenile added last)
<Nope... ultimately trouble>
What does everyone think?
<Time for me to post the dailies, warm my coffee>
Thanks!
--
Ryan Mullinax
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

300 Gallon fish stocking and selection: 6/1/2009
Hi,
<Hi Francisco.>
I currently have a 300 gallon aquarium with a 4" fine sand with about 250
pounds LR. The sump is a 140 gallon Rubbermaid bin with a modded ASM 4X+ and a DIY algae scrubber. Connected to the sump is another 140 gallon bin refugium with a 4" sand bed.
<Sounds like a nice setup.>
My current fish are a 4 1/2 " Powder Blue Tang, 3" Yellow Tang, 3 1/2 " Kole tang, a 4" Hippo, a 4" Majestic Angelfish,
<Pomacanthus (Euxiphipops) navarchus - a dismal survival record in captivity. Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/Pomacanthus.htm
If you do have success with this fish,. please do share your techniques.>
a 4" Coral Beauty, 4 1/2 Melanurus Wrasse,
<Melanurus Wrasses historically do not do well in captivity, do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/anampses/index.htm >
two black Saddleback Clownfish, and a 2 1/2" Ocellaris clown.
Fish are all plump and graze on a sheet of Nori all day along with a cube of food of either krill, mysis, ocean plankton, formula 1 and 2, mega marine angel, prime reef, or spectrum food rotated daily. Since I put the clip on the right side of the tank, all the fish stay within the right side of the tank.
<Had a similar problem, take the clip out when you are not using it, or move it more towards the center. Center rear works best if you can reach it.>
The tank seems a bit empty
<For now....>
so I was wondering if the tank is overcrowded or can I add a few smaller fish or another tang like a tennenti tang.
<I would not.>
I know I already have an Acanthurus in the powder blue tang, but a Naso gets to big in the long run. Am I pushing my luck with the current tang list which at the moment show no aggression.
<You have a big enough system that you may not have any aggression with your current stocking list, but adding anything else big would be pushing it.>
I also wouldn't mind adding a few smaller fish but the black saddle back who is about 4" tends to harass smaller new fish more than the tangs do,
<Typical for Clownfish.>
that's the reason I'm asking about another tang? My LFS got a 3" tennenti but I know impulse buys aren't any good, so I would rather wait and get advise from this great website as I have in the past.
<Perhaps some small bottom dwelling fish such a "scooter" blenny, but you are at the limit for big fish.>
Thanks
<My pleasure>
Francisco
<MikeV>

Stocking List/Introduction for 750 Gallon System – 02/16/09
Hey guys,
<<Adam>>
I've been talking with Eric Russell over the past few months about my new system and I'll have it up and running with skimmer and lights within the next month.
<<Ah yes, excellent…and tis I again, mate>>
Going to give it a few months before stocking it with anything major
<<The longer the better>>
(I may move a few of my gobies from my 120 when I break it down.) I have a list of things I had thought about including, the list needs to be trimmed down and I made it knowing that.
<<Very good>>
I have read through Bob's book several times, as well as many other books trying to get a grasp on what can go with the fish/inverts that I would like most to include in the system and widdle it down from that. Still have a lot to go and I'm looking for some advice.
<<Okay>>
I ran a prelim list by Eric a while back and it’s been added and taken from since but this is the last revision. *grin* No I'm serious!
<<Uh-huh [grin]>>
I would like to see the Anthiines and the flasher/fairy wrasses (I know I'll have to trim the species down to a few,...hence the advice for the best for this system) stay in the system as I have taken to these guys seeing them in the LFS and would like to see them in my dream tank.
<<Then I very much suggest you make these fishes your central theme, and base any other decisions/choices on this fact>>
I really like Nigers and I know this is not the system for one but I left it on the list in hopes someone would think differently (HAHAHA).
<<Mmm…that “someone” won’t be me…>>
There is a "key" at the bottom as I have made some notes because I currently have some of the fish in the list in my 120 gallon set up. The main display tank will focus on SPS/Clams and Inverts (Fromia stars, pistol shrimp, cleaner shrimp maybe a Linckia)
<<I suggest you pass on any Linckia species…for all the known reasons>>
I listed the fish in what I thought would be from most aggressive (Introduced last? at the top) Without further ado, Here it is:
SPS Display - 400 Gallon - ~300 - 380 lbs live rock
Niger Trigger*
Flame Angel~**
Blue Hippo Tang
Naso Tang*
Yellow Tang~
Purple Tang~
Powder Blue Tang*
Blue Lined Rabbit Fish*
Big Long Nosed Butterfly*
or
Copper Band Butterfly*
Lyretail Anthias (1 M & 4 F)
Schooling Bannerfish (3)
Bicolor Blenny
Orangespot lawnmower Blenny
Sixline wrasse~
Melanurus Wrasse
Potters Leopard Wrasse
Leopard Wrasse
Filamented Wrasse (1 M 2F)
Carpenters Flasher Wrasse (1M 2 F)
Australian Lineatus Wrasse
Longfin Fairy Wrasse (1 M 1F)
Scott’s Fairy Wrasse
Solar Fairy Wrasse
Yellow Assessor
Blue Assessor
Black Cap Basslet~
Royal Gramma
Pink and Blue Prawn Goby~
Yasha Hase Goby
Flaming Prawn Goby
Neon Goby (3 - 4)
Gecko Goby
Randall's Goby
Rainford’s Goby
Red Head goby (2)
Twinspot Goby
Engineer goby (3)
Banggai Cardinal (2 - 3)
Purple Firefish
Bar goby
scissortail goby
Green Mandarin
Feathered Dragonette
Dragon Moth
<<That’s some listing of fishes… You’ve stated you really like Anthiines and Flasher/Fairy Wrasses… With that in mind… The Lyretail species is an excellent choice…and these along with a moderately sized grouping (5-7) of “one or the other” of the Flasher Wrasse species listed…as well as a single specimens from a “couple” of the Fairy Wrasses listed would make for a good central theme for the display. Further additions would need to take in to account the “central fishes” tendencies for being easily spooked (and consequently hiding or jumping) by aggressive and/or rambunctious fishes. Tangs are a gamble in my opinion (though I think the Rabbitfish would be fine), as are the Basslets. The Sixline is also iffy due to its often nasty nature…and the Leopard Wrasses, though unlikely to be a bother to anything but each other, should only be introduced to a “mature” system (this also applies to the Dragonettes). The Gobies would also need to be pared down to reduce territorial disputes (even in this big tank)…and the Dragon Moth is certainly a no-no with all the smallish species listed>>
125 Macro Algae Tank - ~100- 150 Lbs live rock - 6 inch sand bed
Blue spot Jawfish
Pearly Jawfish (2 - 3)
Dragonface Pipe Fish (2)
Kudu Seahorse (2)
40 Gallon Anemone Tank
2 true percula clowns
1 - 2 BTA
Flame Angel~**
<<The forty is really too small for the Angel>>
Grow out Tank (Approx. 40 gallons)
Longnosed Hawk fish~
<<Also needs a bigger tank>>
Bicolor Dottyback~
~ I have this fish on hand in my 120 now
* Could be excluded due to issues with tankmates without hurting my feelings
**Flame Angel may be the culprit of Zoanthid disappearances and I have not decided where he will be located. I would like to see in the main display but not at the expense of my corals.
<<This specimen may need to go back t the LFS then>>
Again I know I have listed a lot of fairy wrasse and flasher wrasse and will have to trim it down
<<Indeed>>
which is why I am researching and looking for other opinions on behavior and longevity to pick the ones best suited for the tank. Even thought of having fewer species with bigger harems.
<<This is how I would go>>
There will also be a 110 gallon fuge hooked into this tank with a 6-8inch sand bed and Chaeto.
<<All good…but it all needs time to mature and establish self-sustaining populations of micro and macro food organisms before introducing some of the more delicate fishes on your list (e.g. – Leopard Wrasses…Dragonets)>>
Thanks again for all your advice over the past few years,
Adam
<<Happy to share Adam… Consider my comments and trim your lists to something a bit more “manageable”…then come back to discuss further, if you wish. Cheers mate, Eric Russell>>

Re: Stocking List/Introduction for 750 Gallon System – 02/17/09
Eric,
<<Adam>>
I had already begun trimming before I got your reply and subsequently I trimmed even further with the help of my wife and daughter last night from about 65 fish down to about 45 or less (in the total system).
<<Okay>>
The tangs being a gamble is something I was afraid of as we are all attached to the purple and yellow tang we have now, and we all wanted a blue hippo in the big tank.
<<The Hippo is certainly a no-no in my opinion. These fish are easily spooked themselves, and having a large Tang “zooming around the tank” won’t do the stress levels of you Anthiines and Flasher/Fairy Wrasses any good. Either the Yellow or Purple Tang on its own would likely be fine, but together you are going to get the occasional chasing/sparring (and will probably increase in frequency as they mature) that can send their nervous neighbors dashing for cover…or the carpet. But none of this is guaranteed to occur…the decision to include or omit is yours>>
How do you think the angel and the long nose Hawkfish would fare with its piscine tank mates in the SPS display?
<<Would be fine I think. Neither are pushovers, but I don’t think they will go out of their way to bother your central species>>
I can live with no Zoanthids, as I like my angel.
<<Centropyge species have been known to sample many species of coral/invert…but many have also been known to coexist just fine…>>
I also have a problem taking things back to the LFS knowing that someone who doesn't care as much could get a hold of my fish (hence the multiple tanks, I'm trying to accommodate) and let it perish or put it in an environment that it REALLY doesn't belong in.
<<Mmm…I see>>
Also how about the schooling Bannerfish?
<<A trio of Heniochus diphreutes would probably be fine…and though considered “reef safe” by many, these too will probably pose a hazard to your Zoanthids and maybe more>>
Can't find a ton of info on them other than that if you end up with one of the other Bannerfish species it could be detrimental to your reef, no lengthy compatibility profiles.
<<Heniochus acuminatus is certainly considered to be more of a Cnidarian-muncher than H. diphreutes, and discerning the two can be problematic but is not impossible. I suggest you search the web re the scientific names and learn to tell them apart so as not to rely on the fish store to do it for you. A good place to begin looking is fishbase.org>>
I read that having schooling species helps out with the more timid fish and gives them a sense of security?
<<Can do, yes>>
I was told and read to avoid chromis though, as they would be a risk with the flasher wrasse.
<<Any smallish and potentially nasty species like Damsels, Pseudochromids, and wrasses from the genus Pseudocheilinus should be avoided (ideally) in my opinion when trying to keep Anthiines and/or Flasher and Fairy Wrasses>>
Any suggestions or comments for schooling species and their effect on the other tank inhabitants?
<<Mmm, yes… The smaller schooling Cardinalfishes would be excellent tankmates here, in my opinion. A grouping of either Sphaeramia nematoptera or Apogon leptacanthus would make for an attractive and peaceful display>>
I also ditched the leopard wrasses.
<<This is usually for the best>>
I'd like to give two dragonets their best jump at things and the leopards were always lower on my priorities.
<<And prime competitors for the same foodstuffs… And again, do give the system time to mature before introducing them>>
(The wife likes them, so there still may be one added....)
<<Mmm…>>
Also how do you feel about the melanurus wrasse?
<<I give this species an even smaller chance for survival…best to skip>>
Was your comment on the Basslets being a gamble in reference to the Anthiines/fairy wrasse?
<<Indeed…may chase them about>>
(I could ditch all but the blackcap and not twitch an eye, as he/she is part of my current display.)
<<Perhaps the display will prove large enough for this single specimen…but do keep watch>>
Also I have decided to go with a 65 gallon anemone display in my upstairs away from the big system. It would house a couple BTA and a couple clowns, would it be a gamble to place my Hawkfish and bi color in this tank with the BTA's?
<<Would probably be fine…>>
Here’s the trimmed version: (I like to have things planned out best as possible before executing, things never go along as planned, so sorry for the constant stream of emails ;) )
<<No worries>>
Flame Angel (pending)
Blue Hippo Tang
Yellow Tang
Purple Tang
Blue Lined Rabbit Fish
<<You have my thoughts on these>>
Lyretail Anthias (1 M 4 - 5F)
Schooling Bannerfish (3 - 5) (Pending)
<<I would probably keep this to three, considering your anticipated stocking levels>>
Bicolor Blenny
Orangespot Lawnmower Blenny
Long nose Hawkfish (Pending/or anemone tank?)
<<Your choice>>
Six Line Wrasse
Melanurus Wrasse
<<I suggest you pass on both of these… The Sixline can be a terror…and the Melanurus is much too delicate>>
Carpenters Flasher Wrasse (1M 3 - 4 females)
McCosker’s Fairy Wrasse (1M)
Longfin Fair Wrasse (1M)
Scott's Fair Wrasse (1M)
Yellow Assessor (Pending)
Blue Assessor (Pending)
Black Cap Basslet
<<A potential problem…as stated earlier>>
Pink and Blue Prawn Goby
Yasha Hase Goby
~or~
Flaming Prawn Goby
Neon Goby (3)
Gecko Goby
Rainford’s Goby
Banggai Cardinal (Pair)
<<Unless you obtain a true pair I predict you will soon only have one. Do consider the much more “social” species I mentioned>>
Purple Firefish (2)
Bar Goby (1)
Green Mandarin Fish
Fingered Dragonet
Seahorse Tank (125 Gallon)
3 Pearly Jawfish
<<Ah, a wiser choice than mixing species as you earlier indicated>>
2 Kuda Seahorse
2 Pipefish (Dragonface or Banded)
I have emptied the grow out tank of fish.....and moved the anemone system away from the big system to be placed up stairs,
<<Will likely fare better on its own…away from the influences of the other systems>>
(it also grew in size from a 40 to a 65... might go with the New BIG (66G) Red Sea Max or set up something with HOB/canister filters)
one Bi-color Dottyback with no place (anemone tank?)..... :(
<<Sure… Be chatting, EricR>>

R2: Stocking List/Introduction for 750 Gallon System – 02/18/09
Eric,
<<Hi Adam>>
One reason I have been hesitant to add cardinals is because the cleaner and pistols I want to include.
<<The species I listed should not pose much, if any, threat re>>
I had the pair of Banggais on the list but wasn't completely set on the decision. I have 2 large skunk cleaners, one Alpheid, with plans of adding one more Alpheid and a fire shrimp to the big tank.
<<I see no problems here re the Cardinals>>
How well can the cardinals be trusted with larger sized cleaners and the goby guarded Alpheids?
<<In my experience this has not been a problem with the smaller species I listed>>
A friend of mine had bad luck with a pair of Banggais (the male was the culprit, female remained in the tank innocent), the male was caught with one of the smaller cleaners in its mouth after a long time of peaceful coexistence.
<<Happens>>
Cardinals occupy the shrimp eating niche in the wild don’t they?
<<Mmm, many of our aquarium fishes will devour shrimp of the right “size” if/when encountered. The Cardinals are planktonic feeders primarily, watching for and plucking morsels from the water column, but will also feed on small crustaceans, worms, etc., when opportunity presents>>
Any thoughts on this?
<<I think either Cardinal species I recommended poses small risk to the ornamental shrimps (just don’t drop the shrimp in to the tank like food when introducing new specimens), with the smaller Apogon leptacanthus posing the less of the two. Cheers, EricR>> 

R3: Stocking List/Introduction for 750 Gallon System – 06/23/09
Eric,
<<Hiya Adam>>
As you suspected my list has been hacked to death and reassembled several times and even now after introducing the first 8 fish and having 1 in QT I think I have hacked it up and assembled a new Frankenstein.
<<Not at all unusual mate>>
I have left the idea of a big group of anthias and some flasher/fairy's.
<<Oh?>>
I have had bad luck with the anthias.
<<Mmm, I see… They can be difficult, especially the less a system has matured>>
I bought 8 "Bartlett’s" after much research and looking around.
<<Generally a very good selection re Anthiines for captive keeping…in fact, probably “the best” for first-time Anthias owners. But there is also much to be said for the manner of collection and handling when it comes to a fish’s survivability>>
Upon getting them home and being able to get a better look at them I think I received 2 or 3 Dispar and the rest Bartlett’s.
<<Mixed shipments of similar looking species is not uncommon in my experience…unfortunately>>
Unfortunately I lost half of them within the first 2 - 3 days, and spotted a salt size white speck on one of the Bartlett’s tails the second night I had them. All has been well and no more white specs, my cleaners have shacked up with them and I have been feeding nothing but Selcon and garlic soaked mysis to them, mixed in with some New Life Spectrum they are a little hesitant to eat but have been more and more.
<<Keep it up with the Spectrum pellets>>
I now have 2 Dispar and 2 Bartlett’s that seem to be doing relatively well,
<<Mmm, if these two species are comingling (have seen such before) then you may be fine…else you may need to acquire a few more (maybe from a different source?) of each to keep aggressions spread>>
aside from one of the Dispar having a white patch next to his dorsal,
<<Oh?>>
I believe this was due to an abrasion as it looks as though the skin/scales are missing (a thin chunk taken out).
<<Ah yes…a physical injury likely obtained during collection/shipping>>
Aside from the Anthiines, there is a Filamented Flasher Wrasse, 2 Banggai Cardinals and a Bicolor Blenny. I also have a Mystery Wrasse in QT; he's been in there for 2 weeks now and looks relatively well,
<<Relatively?>>
eating NLS as well.
<<Very good…but if this fish is stressed in any way by the QT it should be moved to the display (unless a disease/pathogen is obvious). Quarantine procedure is not a “black and white” process>>
I wanted to pass you by the new list and see what you think.....
<<Okey dokey>>
2 Bellus Angel or Zebra Angel Pair (Genicanthus Sp.)
1 Purple Tang
1 Yellow Tang
1 Regal Tang
2 Pyramid Butterflyfish
3 Schooling Banner fish
2 Percula Clown (Onyx or Picasso)
1 Black Cap Basslet
1 Chalk Bass
1 Yellow "Coris" Wrasse
1 Christmas Wrasse
1 Zebra Goby
1 Green Mandarin Fish (Male)
1 Pistol/Prawn Pair
5 Blue Ring Cardinals
2 Purple Firefish
1 Mystery Wrasse
1 Filamented Flasher Wrasse
2 Dispar Anthias
2 Bartlett's Anthias
1 Bicolor Blenny
2 Banggai Cardinal (Pair)
That’s a total of 35 fish in a 84" X 36" X 30" display,
<<Ah yes, nearly 400g…a nice size and dimension. But… I do think you are maybe pushing the envelope “just a bit.”>>
100 gallon sump (with Chaetomorpha and live rock) and a 120 gallon fuge with 5" DSB soon to be online with the new system.
<<Excellent>>
(Don't know if you remember this set up or not)
<<Is coming back…>>
If I had to lose one of the fish, I think I'd rather lose the blue ring cardinals which would bring me down to 30 fish... my target number. What do you think?
<<Honestly… I would drop the Regal Tang in this instance… This large (to 12”), beefy, and VERY active fish would contribute the most over any other single choice here re success of the system by its exclusion…in my opinion. You will still need to keep on top of maintenance/husbandry. The five Butterflies are a push as well… I would choose one or the other species for now and see how things go. Even with these omissions, you have to be sure to allow plenty of open swimming space, as well as adequate hiding/resting places for all…a difficult balance as the number of fishes increases…especially those of size>>
Also given what is currently in the tank, and the mystery wrasse coming out of QT in 2 more weeks...
<<Or maybe sooner>>
who do you think should be added next....I tried to put them in order bottom to top.
<<I agree/would stick with this>>
I know the tangs should go in last, I have the two Zebrasomas in a Rubbermaid sump (they were in my 120) along with the blackcap, zebra goby and several other fishes that I have not decided where they are going (friend's tanks or back to the LFS). I hate looking at them in there, given the list should they be the last additions or should/could they be bumped down a couple spots?
Adam
<<I would stick with your plan to add the Tangs last…is best I think for the Butterflies/Angels you have selected. Good luck, and keep me posted on your/the fishes progress. EricR>>

R4: Stocking List/Introduction for 750 Gallon System – 06/25/09 Eric, <<Adam>> Yes, I know the system may have needed a bit more time to mature I left it without fish and only inverts for almost 5 months and couldn't wait to add fish any longer (I had planned for 6 months) <<Still quite commendable…most can’t/won’t wait 5 weeks>> I saw a good population of "bugs" at night and figured a flasher wouldn't pickoff an entire population. <<Agreed…not with the inline refugium in place anyway>> The Bartlett's seem to be taking the NLS pellets well <<This will go far towards their/any fish’s continued good health and vigor. I am a huge fan of this food product>> but the Dispars seem to eat only the frozen mysis...but still have fingers crossed. <<Me too…hopefully they will “learn” from the Bartlett’s>> The two species are co-mingling for the most part, every once in a while the smaller Dispar is distant from the group.... <<Common>> The mystery wrasse in QT will have been in QT for 2 weeks this Friday, relatively well probably wasn't the best way to describe it. <<[grin]>> He is VERY shy and at first wasn't eating well but he has started to come to the front of the tank and out of the crevices more and eats well when fed. <<Like many of the Anthiine species, I feel many wrasse species (particularly those species that “burrow” at night) suffer much in quarantine for the small risk they pose re direct introduction to the display>> No signs of any pathogens though. You mentioned letting him out sooner? <<Indeed>> I am wrestling with this idea because of the white speck I spotted on one of the Bartlett's tails. The spot was noticed on day 2 or 3 of them being in the display and was gone by end of weekend (Fish introduced on Friday, spot noticed on Sat). I almost would say I was trying to QT my display for fear of introducing any more fish to whatever the Bartlett may have had? (What do you think?) <<Crypt is present in most any system… As long as you aren’t experiencing an outbreak of symptoms I would go ahead and introduce the wrasse to the display>> The anthias have been in the display the same amount of time as the Mystery Wrasse in QT. With the stocking list I figured I was pushing the envelope, was hoping you would give some feedback on the two butterfly species. <<Both are risky re housing with corals/inverts>> I like the Heni's a lot more than the Pyramids (as does my wife), but given the difficulty in telling them apart from H. acuminatus, (As I have heard and read that acuminatus can be a destroyer of reefs) I was teetering on their selection. <<H. acuminatus is more risky than H. diphreutes, but the latter still tends to nip at Zoanthid colonies in most all situations that I have been aware…though in a large system with large populations of Zoanthids this may be tolerated…depends much on the individual fishes. As for identification between the two, this becomes much easier/more apparent if you have the opportunity to view the two species at the same time>> Any reputable places to order them from that you know of? <<I generally prefer to order through a LFS, but on occasion do turn to the Internet. I’ve had very good experiences with both Drs. Foster & Smith/Live Aquaria and Pet Solutions>> After the mix up with the anthias and the mix up trying to get some female filamented flashers for my male filamented (He got the completely wrong species from his distributer), I don't trust my LFS with anything that can be mixed up species wise. <<I see>> I have also attached a couple images of the display/anthias. (or you can see updated pics/info on my RC thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15215400#post15215400). <<I see these…an in-wall display eh…very nice. I may have mentioned to you before that I have a 500g in-wall reef system (375g display/75g sump/55g refugium)>> There is a full shot that was taken during setup when I first started moving coral over, it's not very good quality but the best full tank shot that shows the "openness" of the tank... <<Ah yes… Very important to provide such “room” for the livestock…in my opinion>> I don't like the whole rock wall look. <<Its time has passed>> From the picture you can see that I am obviously having trouble keeping the Tunze's from blowing sand out of the middle of the tank...still trying to work on this, as far as positioning etc. ... nothing seems to work, except taking them down a few notches from full blast... <<I have the same issue (I have six Tunze Stream pumps in my display)…but I wouldn’t worry too much about the sand movement. You can try adding a bit of coarser material to those low spots, but it too will shift…and going “too coarse” will only trap detritus…best to live with it>> Thanks for all your help, Adam <<A pleasure to assist… Eric Russell>>

Plans For New 340 Gallon Tank – 11/23/08
Hey guys,
<<Hey there Adam>>
I have rushed every reef I have had because it was previously a friends system or someone who was getting out of the hobby etc. Due to this everything has always been a rush and issues have always ensued.
<<I see>>
I am now in the planning/purchasing phase of the first system solely designed and started by myself.
<<Cool! Much fun and learning to be had during the planning stages>>
I have been brainstorming different ideas for nearly 6 - 10 months and have settled on a 350 gallon display, 100 gallon sump, 100 gallon dry sump (in case of over flow issues), a 180 gallon refugium and a 45 gallon grow-out tank.
<<Very nice… I have a 500g system (375g display, 75 sump, 55g refugium) that I built from the ground up, so I have a an idea of what is ahead for you>>
The display will focus on invertebrates and fish so I wanted to run a possible stocking list (fish) by you guys.
<<I’m happy to give you my opinion>>
I've researched a lot of the fish and their temperament but some of them I am not so comfortable with. Other inhabitants will be a focus on SPS, Clams and shrimp (pistols and cleaners).
<<Okay>>
The stocking list is as follows:
1 Hippo Tang
1 Sixline Wrasse
1 Bar Goby
1 Pink and Blue Prawn Goby
1 Bicolor Blenny
1 Ember Blenny (Saw it at a LFS guessing from looks it is a color morph of the Lawnmower blenny)
2 Firefish
2 Purple Firefish
<<I don’t recommend these Dartfishes (Nemateleotris spp.) in this type of setting. These shy little fish (conspecifics aside) tend to get bullied and or just stressed to the point that they simply “disappear” when housed with more boisterous fishes, as you have listed. They’re really best suited to a species specific system…or at least one with “their” requirements as the focal point>>
1 Bicolor Pseudochromis
1 Fridmani Pseudochromis
<<Mmm, not sure these will cohabitate even in this size tank>>
1 Yasha Hase Goby
1 Flaming Prawn Goby
1 Flame Wrasse
1 Filamented Wrasse
1 Carpenters Flasher Wrasse
1 Australian Lineatus Wrasse
3 Dispar Anthias (2 F, 1 M)
1 Fathead Anthias
<<Ah yes…this is one Anthiine species that I’ve “not” seen do well in captivity as a group (results much like those when trying to keep a “school” of damsels)>>
3 Ventralis Anthias (2F, 1 M)
1 Blackcap Basslet
<<This Gramma may also become a target of the Pseudochromis>>
1 - 2 Green Mandarin Fish (depends on availability of a pair)
<<Even with the refugium, I suggest you let this system mature for at least a year before attempting these fish>>
3 Neon Gobies
2 Yellow Headed Jawfish
1 Sea of Cortez Jawfish
<<And a suitable substrate for these…>>
1 Yellow Tang
1 Purple Tang
1 Flame Angel
2 Percula Clowns
This being my third and final reef tank I scoured the internet and books to try to include everything I could and then make adjustments given their husbandry requirements. I know I have read that the Anthias if housed with even semi-aggressive tankmates can go belly up, would this be an issue with the tangs and angel with this big of a tank? (I already have the purple, and yellow tang as well as the angel housed in my 120 gallon reef and don't want to part with them.... and absolutely cannot stand something dying under my care. :( )
<<There is a possibility the Anthiines will be intimidated to the point of decline, yes. Some species seem to fare better with aggressive tankmates in my experience (e.g. – Lyretail and Bicolor)…maybe partly due to their larger size but also “their” more aggressive nature. Anthiines also seem to do better in my estimation when they are the major population species in a tank…not the case in yours>>
The tank will be set up over the next year, and I don't have plans of stocking it with fish until around six months of cycling to give planktors and algae their first go at life and it will be a slow addition later that with the fish in my current tank being introduced last (except some of the gobies).
<<Excellent! Kudos to you for your patience here… Your system will be so much the better for it>>
Second question, due to circumstances in the past, like the recent demonstration of Murphy’s Law while I was on vacation, I want everything to have a "back- up" plan.
<<Redundancy is good… I could share my own tragic and costly events re>>
I want to go with a single pump circulating the display and Fuge, as well as feeding the Aqua C EV-1000 I plan to employ, and of course, keep a backup of that pump at all times.
<<Mmmm… Some considerations to share here… Trying to regulate flow to multiple devices is a constant battle. Small changes in resistance to the flow within the plumbing lines, the skimmer, etc., will require your continuous attention to regulate for maximum efficiency of the skimmer. And of course, if the pump goes down, everything goes down. And with that in mind, why not “two” sump return pumps? You stated you wanted a backup system. Well mate, short of an auto-start generator in the event of a total loss of power, running two smaller sump return pumps (for sump return/circulation only) on separate electrical circuits is the way to go. If one pump fails, or if something on one of the circuits trips a GFCI, you still have one pump that, even at half the total flow, will be able to keep your tank “alive” until you can affect repairs. Even the auto-start generator won’t help for a simple surge/circuit breaker tripping…but running two return pumps on two different circuits could be a lifesaver>>
I was thinking of using the Reeflo Hammerhead Gold due to its 5555GPH output and low watt draw (~275 watts).
<<Do also consider the pumps location/noise in the living space…if a consideration>>
Would running this pumps output into a 3-way manifold with ball valves ruin its high flow rate?
<<In my opinion, yes… High flow pumps with very low wattage draws typically do not do well against much head pressure>>
Even if it doesn't would it depreciate it enough that it wouldn't be worth doing?
<<That depends on what the end flow rate needs to be>>
I plan to have ~3000 GPH going to the display, ~1500GPH to the skimmer and the rest of the flow directed to the Fuge.
<<I doubt you will get this much total flow from this pump with the manifold and other head-loss issues. And a note… This is a LOT of flow to process through a sump…some noise and flow issues ahead of you for sure>>
Or would it be a better idea to run two Darts (3600 GPH) into a manifold and have them feed the three tanks/device?
<<These too are high-flow low-wattage pumps…not much of an improvement in my opinion. But I also don’t think you need as much flow as you are striving for so these or your original pump/plan will probably be fine…though I suggest a separate “dedicated “ pump for the skimmer>>
On the display end I plan to use a manifold much the way that Anthony Calfo describes in the WWM article so that obviously would have its own effect on the total system head.
<<Indeed it will>>
(Other circulation will be provided by 4 EcoTech Vortechs ~3000GPH apiece, hopefully creating a surging effect in the tank)
<<A much better way to create flow within the tank versus trying to flush thousands of gph through the sump, in my opinion>>
Lastly I am trying to make a decision on Lighting and wouldn't mind a little input from someone with loads more experience than I. I had planned to place 3 400 Watt MH 12K as well as 4 48" T5 Actinics and 3 36" Actinics. My local Fish store said that the 400W would be overkill and a big power hog (I knew the power hog part). So do you guys think that going with 3 250W would be adequate?
<<250w MH is perfectly adequate in my experience for a tank of this height. And considering the depth front-to-back, have a look at full-size quality reflectors like Lumenarc and LumenMax>>
The tank dimensions are 84" X 36" X 26" H. with a 1 - 2 inch sand bed.
<<Ah, well then…either consider passing on the Jawfishes or deepen the substrate to at least 4-inches of sand with some mixed rubble>>
Thanks AGAIN,
Adam
<<Happy to share. Eric Russell>>

Re: Plans For New 340 Gallon Tank – 10/24/08
Eric,
<<Adam>>
Couple follow up questions/comments on your reply:
<<Okay>>
My biggest stocking question was with the fairy/carpenter wrasses that I selected as well as the Anthias, as I have no experience with either of them.
<<Wonderful fishes… Some species much harder to keep than others, especially among the Anthiines…be reading all you can>>
I have always used chromis to give the tank a schooling fish/ bit of a flash and want to try something more colorful with the bigger tank.
<<Ah, if I only had the money back that I’ve squandered on such ventures… What you wish for here is not uncommon and the attraction is quite understandable. Unfortunately, creating an eye-pleasing school of fish in the unnatural confines of an aquarium is often difficult and usually requires some special considerations such as “species-specific” setups. Both the small Flasher and Fairy wrasses and the Anthiines as we previously discussed, can be easily intimidated by the larger and/or more boisterous fishes in the tank. This intimidation doesn’t have to come from direct attack, but is most often just a result of all the “activity” in the tank. At worst this leads to their decline and eventual death…at best it disrupts any natural schooling behavior (though they may “hide” as a group…not exactly what you’re after). One exception in my experience has been groupings of small Cardinalfish species. These fishes tend to take the hustle and bustle of a mixed community better the aforementioned fishes. I have a “school” of a dozen Pajama Cardinals (Sphaeramia nematoptera) in my large reef tank, and while not particularly colorful, this “display” of fish is very attractive all the same…and quite interesting to observe>>
The Jawfish are teetering on whether I include a DSB in the display.
<<Not an option…a must for these fishes>>
I'm leaning to keeping with a DSB in the fuge so that no issues arise in the display down the road so the Jawfish would be taken off the list.
<<Okay>>
Unfortunately I have had bad success with Dartfish in the past (lost 2 in my previous 55 gallon reef) and was leery of trying them again, but my wife adores them.
<<Mmm… Then perhaps a separate “species tank” with a few of these fish should be on your shortlist of Christmas gifts for her>>
Would it be better for the fish if I chose 1 Anthiine Species instead of a mix?
<<I think so, yes… The increase in numbers may provide some extra sense of security…but will certainly help with conspecific aggression>>
I've head of 5 as the magic number with some species?
<<Depends on the size of the tank…other stocking densities, etc. With the foregoing of the two Jawfish species, I think you could do 7 if you wish. And something I didn’t mention before… If you go with the Flasher Wrasses or Anthiines, consider omitting the Clownfish. It’s not always, but I’ve often seen Damsel species chase these timid and already nervous fishes to the point where they jump from the tank…just something else for you to consider if you want to be successful here in the long term>>
You mentioned Lyretails and Bicolors?
<<Yes, both very hardy once acclimated>>
Would you expect much better success with one of these two species in this setting?
<<I would…especially the Lyretail species. In my opinion their larger size and pugnacious attitude (for an Anthiine) make them better suited to a system such as you propose>>
Stocking numbers for these guys?
<<Five…of these larger beauties>>
I am more concerned with the success of my husbandry than having that fish my wife or I just has to have, if it's a long shot I would rather stick with something that I won't have to face seeing perish at my care.
<<Much to research and consider then…>>
As far as the circulation goes the 100 gallon Rubbermaid sump was to built on a platform so that it would only require the pump to move water 1' - 2' plus the height of the tanks... no more than a 5' static head from upward flow. I know with the manifolds it will increase this number quickly.
<<Maybe as much as doubling it>>
I have decided to go with a dedicated pump for the skimmer,
<<Ah! A much better approach>>
and most likely go with two pumps for the fuge/display circulation.
<<Excellent!>>
You mentioned using the Hammerhead or two Darts would be overkill on the flow?
<<Mmm, more specifically…more than you need to process through the sump, along with the associated plumbing (surge/flushing/air entrainment) and noise hassles>>
Noise is not going to be a huge issue as the tank will be in the basement underneath the laundry/kitchen in its own room, though if it is a monsoon like sound it could be an issue...
<<I see>>
What would an appropriate flow rate be for a tank this size/stocking?
<<A 1000gph through the sump would be quite adequate (could even be a bit less if wanted)…utilizing other methods (powerheads/closed-loop) to boost water movement within the display tank>>
Construction starts on the tank next Monday, and I still haven’t specified drain/supply hole sizes for the overflows, because it is dependent on the pump/flow I will be using. Do you have any insight on this?
<<Yes… For optimum results with gravity drains, figure no more than 300gph per 1” drain, 700gph per 1.5” drain, or 1200gph per 2” drain. Some of the online flow calculators will lead you to believe these numbers to be ultra conservative, but experience, along with some purposeful testing done by WetWebMedia’s own ScottV, has proven the value of these figures>>
Originally I had planned to circulate as much as economically/physically possible but you brought up some good points and I am again rethinking some of my plans.
Mucho Gracias,
Adam
<<Muy bienvenida. EricR>>

500 Gallon stock list, SW FO, not mixing rays, sharks...    8/29/08
I'm looking into getting a 500 gallon tank Dims are 96"Lx 48"Wx 25"H,
<Ahh, a very nice "shape" indeed>
and I'm doing some pre-leg work. This is the fish list that I have in mind. The compatibility is based off of Blue zoo Aquatics quick facts chart
<A worthwhile endeavour/project... though such charts/lists should not be considered/held as sacrosanct>
and some of the FAQ's section from your site about Shark compatibility. Can you give me your opinion of what will and won't work together. I'm also going to try and get these fish in a smaller size. I already know filtration is going to be key, so what type of filtration or protein skimmer would you suggest for a system this size with a stock list of this level?
1 White spotted Bamboo Shark or a male and female pair
1 Blue spot stingray or Cortez which ever works better
<Mmm... I would not place this ray here... nor really mix most any Batoid with Elasmobranchs... not really compatible... Sharks eat rays... they are their principal predators in the wild>
A mix of about 20 Chromes: 10 Bicolor, 5 Green, 5 Blue
<Food for the sharks>
A mix of about 12 Altheas: 3 Square, 3 Lyre tail, 3 Disbar, 3 Resplendent
<... Mmm, also food... And I would not mix such small numbers of any but the Pleurotaenia... see WWM re>
1 Bicolor Fox face Rabbit fish
2 Indigo Hamlet
1 Blue Tang
1 Blonde Nash
1 Spotted Unicorn
1 Horseshoe Filefish
4 Blue streak cleaner wrasse
<Mmm, no... see WWM...>
1 Yellow head wrasse
1 Checkerboard wrasse
4 Pork fish
1 Zebra eel
I know it may be a bit over crowded but that is why I came to the experts, thanks for all your answers.
<Mmm, not really answers, but a request that you start over... what you list won't work. Either the sharks, and possibly some of the larger (start and finish size) fishes toward the end of your list... scratching off the Hypoplectrus, the Gymnomuraena... Take your time at this stage... I assure you, better time now than real troubles (induced) later. Bob Fenner>

Big Tanks Have Limitations Too… Stocking And Equipping A New 300g – 08/28/08
Thank you for your time in reading this email.
<<No worries mate…that is what we do>>
I know you are busy so I will be brief.
<<Ah yes, that honey-do list ya know…>>
It has been a long time but I finally received my 300 gallon (96Lx30Wx24T) tank.
<<Congrats… After finally getting a 375g display for myself after more than 30 years in the hobby, I do know the “joy” of getting/having a big tank. Though friend and fellow Crew-mate Scott Fellman doesn’t seem to think big tanks are such a big deal (dude…what up with that article?! [big grin]>>
I have been planning this for about three years now.
<<Planning is wise>>
Every day since I started dreaming of this tank the stock list has changed a million times along with the tank dimensions.
<<Been there>>
Thanks to your website I now believe that I have the knowledge to provide my fish friends with the proper care to keep them happy and healthy!
<<Yay! But…then why are you here now? [grin]>>
All fish will go through a 4 week minimum quarantine.
<<Very good>>
The fish list includes 3 Chaetodon semilarvatus,
<<A spectacular Butterfly species…I do hope they “get along” for you in this volume (I have found that 300g+ is not “all that big” sometimes)>>
1 Paracanthurus hepatus,
<<I’m really glad this tank is as big as it is. This is a very robust and active (and nervous) species that requires a large volume for its long term health>>
13 Chromis viridis, Naso lituratus (male red sea), Moorish Idol
<<Do obtain/train this fish to feed on New Line Spectrum pelleted food…will be a big benefit to all your fishes as well. See WWM re…>>
and finally an Emperor Angel (red sea). I would add the angel about 6 months to a year after the tank is set up so he won't suffer from new tank syndrome.
<<Mmm…actually mate, this wait period would benefit ALL your fishes, and the system in general>>
I will be employing the use of an ATI Bubble Master 300 (would the ATI 250 be better for my setup?).
<<Ah yes, a good friend of mine (Scott Groseclose at Aquarium Specialty) sells these. And yes, I think the “250” would be plenty of skimmer for your system>>
ReeFlo Dart for return. 2 Wavy Seas attached to a closed-loop run on another ReeFlo dart.
<<Very nice>>
A Tunze Wave Box.
<<<Do consider the “space” these require as well as the restrictions re close placement of rock/coral (yes, even in a 300g tank) and maybe reconsider for some of the electronic Tunze Stream pumps w/controller (just a suggestion)>>
1 wave box to start then, when I get more money, I will purchase another one. Lighting will be 2 48" 65 watt Coralife Lunar Aqualights.
<<Mmm, okay…so a total of “8” 65w bulbs over the tank>>
I was going to make the tank a FOWLR but maybe down the road I would like to add a few softies.
<<Your fish choices may say otherwise>>
Do you think that I could keep the lighting I currently have or would I have to upgrade?
<<This depends on the specific species of corals you choose. Stick to Corallimorphs and you will likely be fine…otherwise you may need a few more bulbs/a different methodology>>
I will have a 100 gallon sump that will house the protein skimmer, a large refugium and the heaters.
Sincerely,
Brent
<<Good luck, and enjoy that new BIG tank. Regards, EricR>>

New (large) tank... gen. stkg. order for large SW   7/29/08 Hello Bob and crew. I am just starting my new 650 gallon tank and needed your advice. Unfortunately in my country many people are not interested in the fish so there are only a few stores and they can only import certain fish. So I am getting these fish for my new tank. Can you please go through the list and tell me if these are ok! Angels 1 emperor 6-7 inches 1 Koran 8-9 inches (unfortunately my LFS only gets big ones) 1 Blueface 6-7 inches 1 asfur 5-6 inches 1 navarchus 5-6 inches butterflies a pair of falcula 3-4 inches omato a pair of raccoon 3-4 inches a pair of saddlebacks 4-5 inches a pair of teardrop 3-4 inches tangs 3 regal tangs ~3 inches 1 powder blue ~4 inches 3 yellow ~4 inches 2 purple ~4 inches 1 Naso ~7 inches 1 dussumieri ~8 inches 1 Desjardin sailfin ~5 inches triggerfish 1 niger trigger ~4 inches 1 black ~5 inches misc 1 zebra eel 30 inches + 1 Foxface ~5 inches a pair of tomato clowns 1 golden puffer ~6 inches In what order should I add these fish. <The misc. first... a month or so later, the Butterflies... a month or so after that the triggers, a month or so after all the angels at once... lastly the surgeons> I assure you they will all be quarantined because I have 2 75 gallon quarantine tanks and there will be a minimum of 2 weeks between each group of animals. <Good> Thank you! <Welcome. BobF> Re: New (large) tank... gen. stkg. order for large SW  – 7/30/08 Thank you so much for the reply but I am a little confused with your answer. Do you recommend I add the angels before the smaller surgeons? <Yes> And also do you think that the golden puffer is peaceful enough to not disturb other arrivals after him. And are all my fish absolutely safe with the zebra or should I drop it? <Should be fine... is too slow, the system large enough... to do much damage. B> Re: Large SW stkg.  8/2/08 Hey Bob. I know in am becoming a nuisance but I am confused between all the possibilities and I decided on keeping anthias. You already agreed on my previous list for my 650 but here is a new one. Angels 1 emperor 6-7 inches 1 Koran 8-9 inches (unfortunately my LFS only gets big ones) 1 Blueface 6-7 inches butterflies a pair of falcula 3-4 inchesomato a pair of raccoon 3-4 inches a pair of saddlebacks 4-5 inches tangs 2 regal tangs ~3 inches 1 powder blue ~4 inches 2 yellow ~4 inches 2 purple ~4 inches 1 Naso ~7 inches 1 dussumieri ~8 inches 1 Desjardin sailfin ~5 inches misc 1 Foxface ~5 inches a pair of tomato clowns 5-6 cleaner shrimps And now for the anthias. I am wanting to keep a large group. around 14 individuals. Do you think it is safe to house this many. Also which species do you think is best in these? Pseudanthias squamipinnis <This, the above, by far> Pseudanthias ignitus Pseudanthias pulcherrimus Also how many males do you think should I keep? <One or two> In what order should I add these fish. I assure you they will all be quarantined because I have 2 75 gallon quarantine tanks and there will be a minimum of 2 weeks between each group of animals. <Can go near the front. B> clean tank... More lg. SW stkg...  8/2/08 Hey Bob and crew. I have a question for you. I have a new 650 gallon tank which will be housing 3 large angels, some butterflies, Foxface, some anthias, and some tangs. Well I wanted some invertebrates like hermits, sandsifting stars and cleaner shrimps for the tangs and anthias. I want to know if these are safe with the butterflies. <Yes> Now in a system this big they are all bound to get lost and how will I know if anything dies because they would all be in the live rock and all around. Also in this system how many cleaners, hermits and sandsifting stars should I get? And also do anthias require cleaner shrimps? <I'd undershoot the stkg. of such... In large systems especially, the equipment employed should be decided on to provide most such "clean up"... The Anthias can/will use suitable cleaners... I'd avoid too many Stenopids... Bob Fenner> new tank. Same nonsense   8/03/08 Hello bob. <...> Ok this is my final stocking list. 650 gallons 80 gallon sump 40 gallon refugium. <Too small for the volume of this main/display> Angels 1 emperor 6-7 inches 1 Koran 8-9 inches (unfortunately my LFS only gets big ones) 1 Blueface 6-7 inches 1 annularis 5-6 inches butterflies a pair of falcula 3-4 inchesomato a pair of raccoon 3-4 inches a pair of saddlebacks 4-5 inches tangs 3 regal tangs ~3 inches 1 powder blue ~4 inches 3 yellow ~4 inches 2 purple ~4 inches 1 Naso ~7 inches 1 dussumieri ~8 inches 1 Desjardin sailfin ~5 inches 1 vlamingi ~8inches triggerfish 1 niger trigger ~4 inches 1 black ~5 inches misc 1 zebra eel 30 inches + 1 Foxface ~5 inches a pair of clarkii clowns ~3 inches 1 golden puffer ~6 inches 2 miniatus groupers ~5 inches All fish will be respectively quarantined in 2 75 gallon systems. Thank you! <So? RMF>

Right combinations or not... 15 foot tall cylindrical tank... tiny fish choices   7/24/08 Hello My wife and I are having a steel framed house built <Wave of the future... strike that, the present> and in the center of the house will be the showcase of the house. It is a 10ft diameter X 15ft tall cylinder marine aquarium. <... is this a mis-print? A fifteen foot high system? Wow!> The house is a two floor structure. The walls on the house are 10 ft high and then there is a gap for the build up of the second floor to go around the aquarium and then there is about 3ft of the aquarium showing on the second floor. I will have it age about 8 months before I add any fish or invertebrates. I was wondering what your feelings are for an aquarium with Cardinalfishes, Dwarf Angels, and Damselfish. <... in such a volume? I'd likely have/keep larger species...> The species that I plan on keeping are Apogon cyanosoma, Apogon novemfasciatus, Centropyge nox, Centropyge aurantia, Centropyge heraldi, Centropyge vroliki, Chrysiptera talboti, and Chrysiptera tricinta. I was wondering if this good. I know that the dwarf angels will bully each other in smaller aquariums but with one this big I doubt it since it will have plenty of hiding places. I plan on having 10 each of the cardinals and at least 6 each of the damsels. Is that too many or not enough? <... You likely won't "be able to find them" in this volume, shape system... the curvature of the sides...> What invertebrates could go with such a set-up? <The list here is huge...> Your help is greatly appreciated. Are clownfish, in particular Ocellaris Clowns (both orange and black varieties) good tank mates and how many of each? <... could be quite a few...> Thank You David De Veny <Might I ask, have you looked into the cost of the tank itself? If not, I think you will be surprised at how much the cost "jumps" per every foot or so of increase in height... I suggest you do a bit more reading period, before going further... Chat with fabricators, your general contractor... re what is involved here. Bob Fenner> Re: Right combinations or not... 15' tall cylinder... stkg...    7/25/08 Quoting WetWebMedia Crew <crew@wetwebmedia.com>: > I have talked with the contractor and the fabricators. My wife and I know how much it will cost. You suggested to go with larger fish. What suggestions do you have? Do you think larger Angelfish and Butterflies? I want a setup that will be pleasing to the eye (lots of color) and peaceful. Thank You. David <... for the hundreds of thousands of dollars this is going to cost I advise you to do a bit of reading... Some Pomacanthids and Chaetodontids would indeed be amongst my choices for such a show piece. RMF>

Sharks, rays, tangs, lionfish, and tangs... stkg. a large SW pond  - 07/19/08
hi WWM,
I am in the process of building a circular indoor pond and would be interested in putting some saltwater fish. my question is : would I be able to have a black banded cat shark (the "not true" cat shark), a lion fish radiata or Volitans?),
<Umm, no... too likely the Shark will consume any Lion species>
a sohal tang and a ray or eagle bat ray.
<...?>
How big would the pond need to be? would 6,000+ gallons be enough (because of the bat ray) and would I be able to keep a bat ray at all with the rest of the tank being more tropical?.
<... What species? There are tropical Myliobatids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_ray>
I am planning on making the pond about 18 feet across by about 52" deep (again circular). would the tang nip at the fins of the bat ray?
<Doubtful in a volume of this size>
Have you guys had success at keeping bat rays?
<Not in residential settings, but in "public aquarium ones", yes>
and if I cannot keep a bat ray (I would really love to have one), what other ray/fish would you recommend.
<? Are you joking?>
I am in the middle of researching the fish I plan to put in the pond and want to get all the info I can.
<...?>
There will be live rock. (I don't know how much yet), but no corals. Also are bat rays even legal to own?
<As far as I'm aware, yes... at least in the U.S.>
The only reason
I ask this is they have one for sale at this LFS on 6Th and clement in San Fransisco CA and some of my fish friends say they like the place because they have some nice illegal corals. I am not a coral person but if they have illegal corals they could have illegal fish. thank you for all your help and info!!!
sincerely,
will
<Keep studying and planning Will... Bob Fenner>

compatibility... too much, too soon?  6/26/08
hello. I am cycling my 800 gallon tank(12x3x3) right now. It has a 140 gallon sump. I am going to add my first fish in about 2 weeks. Can u tell me if these fish are compatible?
angels
Blueface 6-7 in
emperor 5-6 in
majestic 4-5 inches
Koran 7-8 in
scribbled ~5 inches
butterflies
2 falcula ~3 inches
2 golden ~4 inches
2 saddleback ~4 inches
tangs
sohal ~4 inches
powder blue ~3 inches
2 yellow ~ 3 inches
2 purple ~3 inches
3 regal ~3 inches
triggers
black ~5 inches
niger ~4 inches
misc
magnificent Foxface ~5 inches
2 tomato clowns ~3 inches
2 cleaner wrasse
2 sand sifting gobies ~4 inches
2 squirrel fish
i really like your website and i want your opinion. My supplier is very good and can order specimens specifically for me and would hold them for 3 weeks. In what order should i add the fish?
thank you.
TOMMY <....>
<... could all get along in this volume... Angels semi-last, Sohal absolutely last, the rest of the tangs in six months or so. Bob Fenner>

Compatibility -SW/stocking 5/25/08
Big Aquarium With Big Plans! (Stocking Critique)
Ok, I think you guys are the most experienced people I can find, so please read my stocking list, and tell me what I should add or delete. OK!
1 Blueface Angel 5-6 in (sorry but I'm disobeying, but I just love this species to much)
<I understand your love for the fish, and I know that you are building a very large aquarium. I still can't say I'm a fan of keeping it in captivity, though!>
3 Golden Pygmy Angels
<Nice fish...tend to hide a lot, but may become emboldened over time. Keeping them in a trio, added at the same time, is a good idea if you want to keep more than one specimen.>
2 Threadfin Butterflies 2-3 in
<Definitely add them at the same time to avoid potential aggression issues. They do get pretty large (like almost 1)"),and aggressive (for a Butterfly, at least) so keep this in mind.>
3 Black and White Heniochus 2-3 in
<Can be nice fish for a large system.>
2 Falcula Butterflies 2-3 in
<Personally, I have found them to do better than the Threadfin Butterfly. I'd choose this species over the Threadfin; perhaps a trio of these instead.>
2 Pakistani Butterflies 2-2 in
<In my experience, these fishes can be really poor adaptors to captive life. I'd pass on them, myself-particularly in a system with a number of other Butterfly species. They tend to be timid.>
1 Magnificent Foxface 3-4 in
<Will add a lot of personality to your aquarium. Add when small for optimum adaption capacity.>
4 Regal Tang 2-3 in
<Everyone hates me for this, but I really don't think that you should keep more than one of them. They become quite large, need lots of space, and keeping a group of these active, gluttonous feeders will tax your filtration system. In the wild, they get huge, and I tend to think of them like large Angelfishes- better of in the wild.>
1 Desjardin Sailfin tang 3-4 in
<Wow- you MUST hate me by now. I love this fish, but it simply gets enormous, and, once again, like the large Angels, requires a lot of room to roam. I am not a fan of keeping this one in captivity.>
1 Powder Blue Tang 3-4 in
<In my opinion, if you are going to try to keep this fish, it should be the only Tang in your system. They tend to have a rough time adapting to captive life, get quite large, and are rather "touchy" (ie; susceptible to illness).>
2 Purple Tangs 3-4 in
2 Yellow Tangs 3-4 in
<I'd advise you to only keep one species of Zebrasoma in this system, particularly in a group. Besides, it would be really interesting to see a larger group of the Yellow Tangs, IMO.>
1 Lipstick Tang 4-5 in
<Ok..just beat me senseless! This is a popular fish, but it can and does reach almost 20 inches in length! It's just another fish that I cannot personally recommend for captivity.>
2 Niger Triggers 2-3 in
<Whew...! Another fish that simply gets huge. If you've ever seen these guys in the wild (I have), you'll see them in groups of several individuals. Nonetheless, they can be a bit aggressive, and once again, I'd be inclined to pass on these fish, particularly in a community situation. I'd rather you consider a somewhat more peaceful Xanthicthys species, such as the Blue Chin, X. auromarginatus, or the Crosshatch, X. mento, both of which are smaller and better behaved than the Niger. That being said, they are REALLY pricy fishes, and that may be a factor. But you asked, and I'm giving you my best advice!>
That's all. And I don't like tanks cramped full of live rock
<You wouldn't want a lot of live rock with the size/number/types of fishes you are considering for this system!>
I will keep live rock at the back of my tank, mostly and leave large gaps so big fish can get around.
<I'm not a big fan of "rock walls", but I do like your idea of leaving spaces for the fishes to swim. In fact, why don't you create an aquascape that consists of several smaller aggregations of rock? This will help avoid the "wall" look, and will break up territories and help curb aggression among some of the fishes.>
BTW, my tank is 12x3x3. do you think I can add Cleaner Wrasse and Sandsifting Starfish.
<I would not ever condone the purchase of a Cleaner Wrasse, as they are of prime importance on the wild reefs. Removing them from the reef creates a gap in "coverage" from these valuable fishes, leaving wild reef inhabitants without their cleaning services. A sand-sifting Starfish is okay, assuming you have an acceptable population of microcrustaceans for it to fee upon. I'd be inclined to wait until the aquarium is well established before purchasing one.>
In what order should I stock my tank and how many specimens at a time.
<Start slowly, adding only a few fishes at a time, after proper quarantine has been completed on each fish (read up on this process right here on WWM). I would start with the Butterflies, then the Pygmy Angelfishes, followed by the Tang(s) and/or Rabbitfish. If you're going to add the Blueface Angelfish, I'd add him/her last. Once again, I hope that you understand the spirit in which my critique was intended. Although I recommend against keeping a number of the fishes you have selected, there is literally an ocean full of adaptable, appropriate fishes out there from which to choose. Please keep at the research here on WWM and other places. I am taking a very conservative stocking approach, based on my personal experience and opinions. Others may have different thoughts on the approach. Take anyone's advise with a "grain of salt", and reach your own conclusions from your research. In the end, please consider the long-term needs of your fishes and the implications of your selections. Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F. >

New 750 gallon aquarium, stkg SW    4/27/08
hello bob.....i am so happy to see that many of you try to help people that you don't even know... i love your website and i need some answer from you please... my tank is currently cycling and in 2-3 weeks it will be ready for my first few fish.. i just want to ask you the compatibility of these fish...
1) Annularis angel 5-6 in
2) Blue face angel 5-6 in
3) Koran angel 7-8 in
4) Majestic angel 5-6 in
5) French angel 7-8 in
6) Cream angelfish 3-4 in
7) Asfur angel 5-6 in
8) Queen angel 5.5-6.5 in
9) Emperor angel 5-6 in
<I'd start all these Angels at the 3-4 inch length to start... much more likely to be healthy, get along>
10) 3 Heniochus butterfly 3-4 in
11) 2 falcula butterfly 3-4 in
12) 4 pacific blue tang 2.5-3.5 in
13) desjardinii Sailfin tang 4-5 in
14) Naso tang 5-6 in
15) powder blue tang 3-4 in
16) 2 Scopas tang 3-4 in
17) 2 purple tang 3-4 in
18) 2 yellow tang 3-4 in
19) magnificent foxface4.5-5.5 in
20) blue throat trigger 3.5-4.5 in
21) Humu Humu trigger 3-4 in
22) black trigger 3-4 in
23) niger trigger 3-4 in
24) rectangle trigger 3.5-4.5 in
25)2 tomato clownfish 2-3 in
26) 2 Pakistani butterflyfish 2-3 in
27) 2 auriga butterfly 2-3 in
28) 6 cleaner wrasse 1-2 in
<Either skip these or just two>
please tell me your opinion and if you think i shouldn't add some fish.....i really appreciate your opinion...i know cleaner wrasse are hard but someone told me that they very important and with a fish population this big. they'll have a lot of food..
<All should be carefully acclimated, quarantined (per WWM) before introducing. Bob Fenner>

Large Aquarium- Large Fish? – 03/18/08
Hi there to whom may reply to this, and thank you for your time in doing so.
<You're quite welcome! Scott F. in tonight.>
I am planning to amalgamate 2 existing systems that I have into 1 large and would like some advice on stocking plans. My first system is a 180 litre reef that is home to a 2" Centropyge loricula, a 3" Ecsenius bicolor, a 4" Cryptocentrus cinctus and an Alpheus soror pair, a 1.5"Pseudochromis Springeri 2" Priolepis nocturnus pair of 1.5" tank bred Amphiprion percula,2 x Catalaphyllia Jardinei Protula Bispiralis and a handful of Superman spotted Discosoma all of which I would really like to keep as they were some of my first fish nearly 3 years ago.
<Nice variety!>
That was my wife's tank and now mine which is a 6ftx2ftx2ft main display, a 2ft sq. refugium and a 4ftx18"x18" sump and is a full on reef garden and has the following inhabitants:
6" Calloplesiops altivelis
5" Zebrasoma xanthurum
4" Zebrasoma veliferum
3"Paracanthus hepatus
1.5" Acanthurus coeruleus
3" Pomacanthus imperator
1.5"Holocanthus bermudensis
5" Siganus lo Vulpinus
6 x 2.5" Pseudanthias squamipinnis (1 Male,5 Female)
3" Chrysiptera cyanea
4.5" Amphiprion melanopus (hosting with a 22" dia.Sarcophyton leather)
2.5" Synchiropus picturatus (now nearly 3yrs old)
3" Paracheilinus mccoskeri
3" Bodianus bimaculatus
In the refugium there is a single Lysmata Amboinensis and a 1" Stonogobiops nematodes and in the sump somewhere there is a Belonepterygion fasciolatum.
<You have some wonderful fishes in there, but you'll have to make some concessions, particularly in regards to the Tangs and the Angelfish. Yes, as I read below, the new aquarium is spacious, but you're still dealing with some fishes that reach large sizes, need lots of physical space, and give off large amounts of metabolic waste. I'd re-think the long-term implications of this plan and narrow down you choices to one or two of the Tangs.>
The new system is a 96"x30"x36"tall with a 48"x24"x24" sump and a 2ft cubed refugium. Existing rock which is approx 145 kilos combined from the 2 systems to which I am going to add another 120 kilos. There is an existing 4" sand bed of sugar fine Aragamax in both systems to which I am going to transfer along with more fresh sand to make a 4" bed in the new system. All existing filtration will be transferred (live rock rubble approx 20kilos,Chaetomorpha)into the new sump and am thinking of adding a 6-8"bed of mud/or DSB what are your thoughts?
<Sounds really good! The DSB can be an additional source of nutrient processing. Perhaps you might get adventurous and light it in reverse of the display system and grow some Seagrasses in there. Just a thought!>
Obviously I have my doubts regarding a few of the inhabitants mainly the Tangs and Angels and also the predatory nature of the Marine Betta in respect of smaller fish and shrimp.
<I appreciate your concern regarding these fishes and their potential predatory habits. Is a true concern.>
Firstly I would like to ask would my new system sustain (size wise) all the inhabitants for years to come or am I pushing the boat a bit too far,
<You are; please see my comments above. Reviewing your animals' needs and ultimate sizes will give you a good idea of what to do. Concessions must be made.>
and if yes would I be able to add more smaller fish like a small shoal of Serranus tortugarum,another shoal of Anthias, Halichoeres ornatissimus/ Iridis?.
<I love the idea of small fishes in a large aquarium. I am a huge fan of the genus Halichoeres, too! Consider stocking this large aquarium with small fishes!>
In respect of the Tangs and Angels do you think I have my work cut out in trying to keep these fish in harmony together and if so what would you recommend I change?
<I'd eliminate most of the Tangs, quite honestly. Stick with one that you like, preferably the Z. xanthurum. I would tend to go with a smaller Angelfish, like a Centropyge species.>
These have all been together for around 11 months apart from my last addition was the Blue angel which was about 10 weeks ago. Initially there was a little chasing between the Emperor and the Blue Angel but the Emperor (Henry) has long since given up as he can't fit in the same nooks and crannies.
<Not sure how long this behavior will go on. Could be a long-term problem. In fact, it could proof fatal for someone. I'd think seriously about this stocking plan for the long run. Really, give some thought to the large aquarium/small fish philosophy.>
Thanks again for the valuable time and effort you may take in reading and replying to this your efforts are most appreciated.
Kind regards
Jason, Wales UK
<My pleasure, Jason. You sound like you have the basis for an excellent system there. Just refine your stocking list and make the necessary concessions. Think long term when stocking, and you won't go wrong! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Large, SW, new tank set up... stkg.     2/1/08
I have owned a 105 gallon reef aquarium for about 4 years now and it has done very well. All the fish are happy and celebrating their 4th year in the tank this February.
I am wanting to get a fish only tank and my budget and space would allow for a 580 gallon aquarium. It would be 144" long x 30" wide x 31.5" tall. I have spoken to my LFS person (the owner of the store) and he has come up with a setup using two large protein skimmers, about 500 lbs of live rock, a 120 gallon sump tank below, about four pumps (for redundancy),
<Mmm, you'd be better off with just two good ones...>
two heaters (for redundancy). I feel confident in the tank setup he has come up with. I will also set the tank up to its own 2 electrical breakers with a home generator that will come on automatically if the power goes out (I have discussed all this with an electrician, and based on the required power needs for the tank it should pose no problem).
<Good idea>
The tank would be glass (rectangular) and have steel reinforcements at all seams and 3 two inch steel supports across the top as well.
<How will you coat, prevent these from rusting, poisoning the water?>
It would be built by Oceanic with a 7 year warranty.
<... am surprised that Oceanic would provide a steel frame...>
I thought about acrylic, but I was afraid about the scratches and removing them when they occur. Everyone seems to be going to acrylic but I am willing to pay for glass and the place I am putting it will support the weight.
<Mmm, weight not important re the tank... when you consider the rest...>
I plan on keeping this tank for many years. My question is the livestock. Here is what I would like to put in the tank, all starting at around 4 inches (with the eel appropriately sized for the fish):
Panther Grouper
Lunare Wrasse
Queen Angel
Snowflake Eel
Harlequin Tusk Wrasse
Porcupine Puffer
Naso "Lipstick" Tang
Pink Tail Trigger
Blue Chin Trigger
Volitans Lion
<May have a hard time getting to the food...>
maybe a Clown Trigger (may be too mean)
<Not suitable>
maybe a Blue Line Trigger
I would like to get these fish at a relatively small size and try to keep them to full size in this tank. I realize the grouper does and will get 20-24 inches and I may just have to remove him at some point.
<Many years hence>
The others would get around 10-15 inches or so. Maybe 16-18 inches for the Angel. Do you think this tank is too small for that?
<Not in time. And you will very likely "graduate" to other organisms, a reef of sorts...>
I guess I could transfer the fish to an even larger tank in several years and use this one for something else, perhaps a reef. Is there any other problem you see with this set of fish for this tank?
<Mmm, no. But I would like to suggest you start them off early on an exclusive diet... of Spectrum pelleted foods... for all the reasons stated here: http://wetwebmedia.com/foodsppt1.htm>
Also not sure as to the order to add them to the tank. I know the triggers would need to come last.
<Probably best... though not much of an issue in a system of this size, starting with smaller specimens period>
Thank you for your time and information (great website, by the way. Very informative)
Steve
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: new tank set up... large SW f' 2/1/08
Bob,
<Steve>
Thank you for the info. What did you mean below when you said "weight not important regarding the tank....when you consider the rest".
<Simply that the weight of the tank itself, fashioned of whatever matter is not relatively important, compared with the contents mass>
Do you think I should go with acrylic instead of glass?
<Mmm, no my friend; not necessarily. I might well opt for glass here myself. You can read here re the principal pro/con argument: http://wetwebmedia.com/tkmats.htm>
Oceanic is covering all the metal seams and the cross supports themselves with some kind of black sealant.
<Ah, good>
The guys that own the aquarium store here said that they see so many acrylic tanks around town that they service and all of them are badly scratched over the years. Scratches occur so easily it is hard to keep on top of it and remove them all the time.
<As stated... there are benefits, drawbacks to all materials...>
So you don't think the clown trigger is a good idea. I understand, my fish store guy told me the same thing. What about the blue chin and the blue line triggers?
<Please read on WWM re Balistids... these issues are covered...>
As for the food, I feed my current reef fish in the 105 gallon tank Spectrum pelleted food and they love it.
<Is an amazing product line... the owner/manufacturer, Pablo Tepoot is a good friend>
And it is very clean as there is none really left over when the fish eat.
<Ahh!>
I was just worried about the eel, angel, and lion. They need squid and more protein based stuff, don't they?
<Actually no... the Spectrum product is akin to the best lines of commercial dogfoods (Science Diet, Nutro, Eukanuba...) it is completely nutritious to all food consuming groups of fishes...>
My panther grouper is currently in my reef (he is the smallest fish at 3.5 inches in length), and he will only really eat the freeze dried krill. He won't eat the pellets. Any thoughts?
Steve
<Mix some of the pellets in with the krill, keep decreasing the amount of Euphausiid... the Chromileptis will eat the Spectrum... B>

Stocking/Compatibility...Even Big Tanks Have Limits – 10/08/07
Hi to all at WWM,
<<Hello Ann>>
I have a 350 gallon tank which has been up and running for approx 1 year.
<<Cool...love big tanks...>>
I currently have a juvenile clown trigger,
<<Mmm...this “Triggerus reallymeanus” is likely to eventually kill all its tankmates...even in this size tank. Best kept in a specimen tank, in my opinion>>
1 big-eyed soldierfish
2 black and white clownfish
<<These may end up as a meal for the Soldierfish...depending on size disparity>>
1 coral grouper
1 dog-faced puffer and
1 file fish (unfortunately I’m not sure which species of file fish it is) my LFS called it a combat19 as he couldn't remember the name.
<<Hmm...I wonder if the “combat” is indicative of something they failed to mention to you?...>>
What I would like to know please is if it would be okay to introduce either an emperor or queen angelfish into this community?
<<You don’t make mention of your filtration or any ancillary systems (e.g. – refugium), but even so, you already have some large (or will be) and heavy/messy feeders here. And with the presence of the Clown Trigger I’m doubly hesitant to recommend adding any more “chew toys” for this mighty alpha-bruiser of a fish>>
I have been given conflicting advice and am therefore confused please can you help?
<<And likely my advice will only cause you more conflict [grin]>>
I would also like to eventually get a blue lined snapper as well if possible.
<<Find another home for the Trigger and the addition of a beautiful and relatively hardy Queen Angel (do read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/holacanthus/ciliaris.htm) should be fine...foregoing any further additions to allow the fishes you have room to grow and mature without the stress and retardation of overcrowding>>
Thank you in advance,
Ann
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>

Stocking (And Overstocking!) A 300-Gallon Marine Display – 07/18/07
Hello WWM Crew!
<<Hiya Bryan!>>
I am currently cycling a 300-gallon reef tank, and I am working on my stocking list.
<<Congrats! I do love big tanks...have a 375g reef tank myself>>
I want to get a solid plan laid out before I start stocking, and I am going to stick to it (no exceptions for fish that were "just too good to pass up").
<<Always good to have a “plan”>>
I bought the tank from a mortgage company that had it in their office. I don’t have all of the info on all of the parts, but from what I’ve gathered the system is pretty overkill, the tank was maintained by a LFS that my friends and I have decided is a pretty shady outfit...
<<Oh?>>
They won’t take payments to hold livestock, will try to sell you anything you show any interest in, even if it would be a terror in your system (they told me a Picasso trigger would be a fine addition to a 50-gallon community reef tank,
<<Yikes! Shady indeed...>>
I only asked to see if they were trustworthy enough to buy from...) anyway, the tank was set up as a fish-only system and has a 70 gallon sump, a really bulky protein skimmer,
<<But is it a “good” really bulky protein skimmer?>>
a 1/2 hp chiller (which was totally unnecessary in! So-Cal)
<<Mmm, was there just a couple weeks ago...can see where a chiller might be handy/needed...depending on the system>>
and two BEEFY canister filters (the bigger one is an Eheim, can’t tell the model though) and a UV sterilizer. I will have 3 X 150 watt halides,
<<I don’t know what Cnidarian/invertebrate livestock you are planning, but I doubt this lighting will be sufficient on this size tank...but then, maybe you have a plan for this also...>>
not sure what brand or intensity yet, I am currently negotiating a trade with a maintenance company I am familiar with for the chiller.
<<You mention in your first sentence this will be a reef tank, yes? You really should decide on the livestock/niche you want replicate and then tailor the lighting to fit>>
The people I bought it from said everything was three years old or less, and they were getting rid of it because it was too expensive. They said every time the maintenance company came out they were told they needed to spend hundreds on new equipment. Which I figure is pretty par for the course with this particular LFS...
<<Sound like crooks...>>
Anyway, their loss is my gain...
<<Indeed...and better in the end for the livestock that was likely mal-tended in the “company” tank>>
I will be setting up the system as a community reef tank, with a mostly Pacific flavor (with one or two exceptions). It will be a reef, but the focus will not be on the corals, I have access to just about as many free frags of most common species as I could want, so I will be stocking the coral around what is compatible with the fish I will be stocking, and not the other way around.
<<Ah, I see…then with this in mind, the lighting may indeed be sufficient>>
I have pretty much made up my mind on the stocking list, but I would like your input on a few things that I am unsure of,
<<Okay sure, but if your mind is made up...>>
so first let me start with the stocking list (this is not in the order in which they will be stocked):
1 Acanthurus sohal
(this one is not negotiable, if you think anything below will not fare well with the Sohal let me know and they will be out)
<<Okay, so you will build the system around “this” fish. I would suggest obtaining a small (3”- 4”) specimen and letting it “grow up” in your system. Even so...it will likely get mean...it “will” rule this tank...and sooner or later, it will probably even “bite” the hand that feeds it (or is working in the tank). But other than this, these are indeed a beautiful fish...and quite “aquarium” hardy>>
1 Paracanthurus hepatus
<<A big/beefy fish. Requires much open space like the Sohal but with plenty of suitable “hidey-holes” as I consider this species to be more “twitchy” than normal...as Tangs go>>
1 Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis
1 Ctenochaetus strigosus
1 Zebrasoma flavescens
1 Zebrasoma xanthurum
1 Zebrasoma gemmatum
<<The tank is big, but I don’t think it is “this” big… I think you should limit your selections to a “single” species of each Genus>>
Let me pause here and ask one of my biggest questions: The first two tangs are the two fish that I absolutely HAVE to have in my tank, the second is the fish that first attracted me to the hobby as a child, and the first is what drew me back as an adult.
<<I understand, both are magnificent animals…and both can be terrors in “too small” systems>>
I want these two no matter what, and as I understand a large group of tangs is preferable to only two, but the other 5 tangs listed are only in the mix to keep the aggression down amongst the tangs, but I think I will be overstocked with 7 tangs.
<<Me too>>
If I can get away with 3 or 5 let me know.
<<Four seems like a good figure...as already stated>>
Or if you think the passive Hippo will be ok with the aggressive Sohal by themselves let me know, and I won’t stock the others.
<<I’ve never considered Hippo Tangs as “passive”…can be quite aggressive in their own right. I’ve even heard of this species killing “non-Tang” tankmates…though I think these extreme behaviors are often due to behavioral development/retardation issues from being kept in an improper (too small!) environment. Even so, I think a couple more Tangs as stated will be fine/may indeed prove helpful in this instance>>
Continuing on:
I would like to keep at least one pair of the following: (more than one pair if you think I am able to keep them peacefully)
2 Genicanthus watanabei (another that I really, really, want to have, unless there are serious objections to it, do you think the males look close enough to the Sohal Tang to maybe garner aggression from the Sohal?)
<<Will probably be fine…but your challenge here is to provide enough escape-routes and hiding places among the live rock while leaving plenty of swimming room within the tank>>
2 Genicanthus lamarck
2 Centropyge interruptus
2 Centropyge bispinosa
<<Again…pick one species from each Genus. Finding a pair of angels in of the Genicanthus genus won’t be too difficult as they often seem to be collected/come to the LFS in this manner...finding a pair of angels of the Centropyge genus may prove more problematic and may take “special ordering” of such. Though I must say, the number of fishes/species selections I saw at a couple stores in San Diego was much better than anything I’d seen before...including some very nice shops I frequented/visited while in the UK. This is an obvious advantage to being located on the West Coast (can only imagine what the wholesale facilities are like...[sigh] maybe next time...)>>
I would like to have at least one mated pair of angelfish, more if it is possible without putting any undue stress on the rest of the community. Shoaling fish have always held a big fascination for me, and I would like to keep a few small shoals of a few different species, here are some of the species I am considering:
40-60 Chromis viridis (another that I just have to have, I don’t see any conflicts besides the obvious bioload considerations, I may consider going with less, but I do want a swarm of 'em)
<<Mmm, methinks you muchly overestimate the capacity of this system. If you want to keep any other fishes at all, let’s shoot for about 12 of these guys. If that’s not acceptable then we (you) need to start rethinking this stocking plan. Even at 300-gallons, the capacity of this system is not infinite>>
5-15 Pseudanthias bicolor (do you have any other suggestions for a shoal off Basslets that would be community friendly?)
<<There are several good choices in my opinion. But with “bio-load” in mind, maybe something on the “small” side (comparatively) like Pseudanthias bartlettorum. These are gorgeous little fishes and if added first/allowed to settle in will not be so likely to “jump”...about seven should do>>
7-12 Serranus tortugarum (would I be ok with more?)
<<I love these little guys...but let’s keep the number at five...again, in the interest of long-term sustainability of this system>>
7-15 Pterapogon kaudneri
7-15 Apogon leptacanthus (will the two species of cardinal be ok together and with the rest of the tank? Can I stock a little more of them, particularly the leptacanthus? There will be a large section of the tank devoted to the cave/under shelf region of the reef.)
<<Choose one or the other (my vote is for A. leptacanthus)...you are quickly running out of room>>
And then there are these two species, I find conflicting reports as to whether they are ok in groups or not, I’d like to know if they would be ok if I stocked 15 or more, or if I should stock only one or two:
2-15 Nemateleotris magnifica or helfrichi (one species or the other, not a mix of both)
<<Not an appropriate Genus for this tank in my opinion. These shy fishes are very easily intimidated, very often to the point of starvation...not to mention the effects of continual stress. Most will die/disappear within weeks to months...all will eventually “go.” They are best kept in systems “designed for them”>>
1-15 Ptereleotris evides (are these a bad idea with tangs?)
<<Another one I would skip...>>
The rest are misc. bottom feeders, cleaners, etc...
1 Salarias ceramensis
1 Synchiropus splendidus
<<No... Too many competing species already>>
4 Elacatinus puncticulatus
<<Let’s leave these out too>>
8 Gobiosoma oceanops (could I stock more, should I stock less, or is this a good number?)
<<May prove beneficial, assuming they can find enough to eat/sustain themselves...maybe a trio>>
4 Amblyeleotris guttata & accompanying shrimp
<<I wouldn’t, likely to be some territoriality issues...and besides, there’s going to be more than enough fish flesh in this system>>
1 Valenciennea strigata
4 Opistognathus aurifrons
<<Another “not so good” choice...best in a species-specific system>>
This group will be stocked over a period of 1-2 years, and I do not want to introduce anything that will be put under a lot of stress or harassed, and I certainly don’t want to be murdering livestock by putting them into a system that they will not do well in.
<<Is good to know...do look over and rethink your stock list/stocking levels. To recap (using “my” numbers) for my own edification, and maybe put this a bit more in perspective for all... We’re looking at 1-Sohal Tang, 1-Hippo Tang, 1-Ctenochaetus spp Tang, 1-Zebrasoma spp Tang, 1 Pair-Genicanthus spp Angels, 1 Pair-Centropyge spp Angels, 12-Chromis viridis, 7-Pseudanthias bartlettorum,, 5-Serranus tortugarum, 7-Apogon leptacanthus, 1-Salarias ceramensis, 3-Gobiosoma oceanops, 1-Valenciennea strigata. Luckily many of these species are on the “small” side (2”- 3”), even so I think you will find this to be a pretty good “load” for your 300-gallon display tank. If you employ a large “quality” skimmer w/ozone and can plumb in a large-as-possible in-line refugium...you could probably get away with adding a “few” more of the smaller shoaling species>>
Please let me know if any of the above species stand out as obvious mismatches in this system. (or if I should lower/raise the density of any particular species) and I would love to hear any suggestions you may have that would fit well with this system (of course I will thoroughly investigate any suggestions you make before adding them, so please feel free to give me several suggestions). I won’t just be throwing everything in just because someone suggested them, but I’d like to look at a few more species that might fit into my setup.
<<I think you’ve got about all you can handle as it is. But honestly, I would rather see you research/set up a more “biotopic” display... Not that you can’t be successful with this “mix” (many hobbyists are), but choosing fishes from the same region is more natural...to those “in the know” and to the fishes themselves, and also precludes introduction of diseases/parasites they may have never encountered/built immunities against>>
Thanks a ton!
~Bryan in San Diego
<<My visit to Aquatic Warehouse was awesome!... Bryan, please do consider my input, and let’s discuss this system setup as well. Regards, Eric Russell...back in hot and very humid Columbia, SC>>

Re: Stocking (And Overstocking!) A 300-Gallon Marine Display – 07/20/07
Eric,
<<Bryan>>
Thank you for the quick and detailed reply!
<<Most welcome>>
That was exactly what I needed.
<<Glad I could serve>>
I had a feeling what I wanted was going to end up being overstocked...
<<And then some…indeed>>
But sometimes ya just need someone who knows more than you to slap your hand and say "No more fish!"
<<Mmm, more like a “big stick” needed with you…[grin]>>
Anyway, I’ve been meaning to research the skimmer and filters, but I’ve been way overloaded at work for the past two months and have barely had time to set the thing up... but I will try to make that a project for this weekend.
<<No worries…but do let’s chat re this setup before you begin stocking>>
As far as the lighting goes, I don't really feel the urge to have an electrical bill bigger than a car payment,
<<Understandable>>
and it took a few weeks of convincing on my roommate's part to even get me to make the jump into putting in some kind of halide...
<<Best bang/look for the buck…in my opinion>>
And as far as a refugium goes, the sump and canister filters are very big... they take up about 2/3 to 3/4 of the space under the tank, so I don’t have a ton of room to work with, and I had planned on a 20gallon QT, and 3 10 gallon tanks for phyto/zoo plankton and 'Pod production. And that pretty much takes up all of the room I have under the tank.
<<Hmm, I see… Do let me impress upon you that an in-line refugium will be exponentially more beneficial than these large canister filters under your circumstances. The canister filters have their place/uses…but can be nightmares if not kept up with/maintained diligent and maybe even counter-productive in your case depending on how they are configured and considering the number of planktivorous feeding fishes you want to add to your system. The refugium would also supplant the need for the three 10-gallon tanks you mention. You do understand what a refugium is, yes? (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm)>>
Although the tank is very close to a large window leading to the backyard and my roommate has spent the better part of a week suggesting we cut a hole in the screen and plumb in one of those big 4'X4'X3' plastic refugiums that you see in wholesalers, outside of the window. Though I don’t know if it would make that big of an impact with the current plumbing situation (single 3" overflow, one 2" return bulkhead in the back of the tank, and 3 1.5" exhaust bulkheads) I am not too crazy about the idea of drilling more holes in the tank, and I think that without at least a second overflow box the 'fuge will be a bit overkill and unnecessary...
<<Doesn’t have to be this complicated>>
As far as the livestock goes, I had wanted to set up a Hawaiian biotope, but I am finding that a biotope is going to exclude a large number of specimens that I want to have,
<<Mmm, well…is what makes it a biotope>>
and more than one tank is just not practical in my current place (square footage is at a premium in So-Cal)
<<Indeed>>
so I figured if I can’t have 4 100-gallon biotopes then I’d get the biggest tank I possibly could and if I couldn’t replicate a specific location I would at least like to replicate a few different zones of the reef within the tank.
<<Okay, but…the issue here isn’t multiple reef “zones” but rather pooling organisms from completely different oceans. As I mentioned before, what you propose is what the majority of hobbyists “do”… Just using my bully pulpit here to voice my opinions…>>
Basically I am going to have the left 1/3 of the tank aquascaped to replicate the under-shelf/cave/low light regions (going to be reinforcing the rockwork with PVC and building a pretty large shelf) that is going to give way to a branch-rock/rubble zone with a large (about 4 square feet) open bottom free swim area in the center of the tank. On the other side of that will be a wedge-shaped slope with a straight drop-off towards the right corner of the tank about 4”-6" from another pillar, to try and simulate a small gorge. I am hoping that by simulating a few different habitats as opposed to just putting in a "pile of rocks" I will be able to alleviate some stress and try to provide many suitable territories for all of the inhabitants.
<<Sounds like a good plan…places to hide/disappear from view while leaving room to swim>>
As far as the tangs go, I thought it was best to keep odd groupings of as many as possible (the reason I picked the arbitrary number 7),
<<Mmm…this really applies more to when keeping a single species…and our own (human) sense of aesthetics I think>>
but if 4 will be ok together than I will be stocking the A. sohal, P. hepatus, and most likely C. strigosus and Z. xanthurum or Z. gemmatum (do you think either one of these two are more or less aggressive? is one better suited to my mix?).
<<A “toss up” I think…perhaps economics will decide as Z. xanthurum will be decidedly less expensive than the rare Z. gemmatum ($3,500 at Marine Center…if you can even get one!)>>
I would even be fine with stocking three and leaving the Zebrasoma out all together, unless I am likely to see more aggression with three rather than four...
<<This would be fine…and would create some “room” for a few more individuals of the shoaling species you covet>>
I had pretty much figured that I would only be able to keep one pair of each genus of angels, but wasn't sure if I would be able to keep one pair of each genus or only one pair total!... G. watanabei is in, and I still can’t decide between C. interruptus and C. bispinosa (I’m leaning towards interruptus, but will probably ultimately go with whichever one is better suited to the system. Suggestions?)
<<Mmm…C. bispinosa can be difficult to keep…C. interruptus is sexually dichromatic making it easier to sex, but also much more scarce in the trade on “this” Continent. Might I suggest a third choice?...C. loricula… This is a hardy, readily available, and in my opinion, very beautiful dwarf angel that “can” be paired up in the home aquarium (I have done so). Though doing this takes a bit of luck and somewhat of a “trained” eye for the species/its behaviors>>
As for the shoals... I really do want a swarm of the C. viridis, I was really hoping to have about 24-30 at the absolute minimum... I am willing to sacrifice somewhere else to accommodate a larger group... maybe instead of 5-15 P. bicolor I could go with 7-9 P. bartlettorum, and maybe 5 S. tortugarum (or maybe just leave them out altogether, I do really like these guys, but I like a lot of other species I want to stock too...).
<<I do understand your attraction to shoaling species…a large group of small shoaling fishes in a large aquarium is attractive to many hobbyists, myself included. I started to bring this up in my earlier response…but if I may take a moment to comment a bit more in detail on your chosen species… It has been my experience and the experience of others’ with whom I’ve discussed this genus that Chromis have a hierarchal structure that like some other shoaling species seems to “self destruct” in the confines of an aquarium. By this I mean that two or three dominant individuals will develop, and by whatever means, whether it be damage from direct physical aggression or the stress of constant harassment, the other members of the shoal slowly decline/disappear until only the few most dominant individuals remain. If you really want a “swarm” of small shoaling fishes I recommend Pseudanthias bartlettorum or Apogon leptacanthus. You could possibly try other species within the Families/Genera of each, but these are two species I feel work well for creating schools/shoals within the confines of home aquaria>>
As for P. kaudneri & A. leptacanthus I would really like to have a few of both... As I mentioned before there is going to be a large area of the tank dedicated to under-shelf/cave, could I get away with 5 kaudneri and 9 leptacanthus?
<<Possibly…though I find groups of P. kaudneri to often display similar issues as the Chromis>>
Will they be too competitive with each other?
<<P. kaudneri will be the more aggressive of the two for sure…but I can only speculate as to whether they will cohabitate…>>
(if I were to stock only one species how many would be the max with the current mix?)
<<If you drop the Zebrasoma species Tang and the Chromis…I think a school of 20 or so A. leptacanthus is feasible>>
Also do you have any other suggestions for species that would thrive in the under-shelf region?
<<Not that can/should be added to this already heavy fish load>>
I don’t think squirrel/Soldierfish would be a good fit, what about assessors? (Of course at this point if I add any other species I will subtract from somewhere else...)
<<With this last in mind…Assessors might be a viable option>>
I will probably round it off with the following (based on your suggestions): 1 Salarias ceramensis, 1 Valenciennea strigata , could I have 1 Elacatinus puncticulatus? (will leave it out if you think it is likely to starve, but I do really like the little guys...),
<<Mmm…upon reflection, will probably be fine…perhaps a trio of these as well…>>
3-4 Gobiosoma oceanops (mostly I want them for cleaning purposes, the tank has mostly a Pacific feel, and I’d love to have a Labroides dimidiatus or Labroides phthirophagus (was lucky enough to spot quite a few of the latter snorkeling off of Lanai last May, that has got to be the most intense violet I have ever seen).
<<I have been diving off the Big Island a few times (Bob is over there now). I don’t recall seeing these, though they must have surely been about. Perhaps I was just overwhelmed at the profusion of fishes/bio-diversity that abounds there…>>
But in my book "Loving" a species of fish does not equate to "Starving & Torturing" (talk about loving your pets to death!)
<<Indeed>>
So I figure even though the captive bred G. oceanops isn’t even from the same ocean as most of the rest of the tank mates, it would serve the same purpose, and would not be detrimental to the wild environment. (I can't tell you how livid I’d be if I found out any of the little beauties I saw last may had been taken from their home only to die in a bag somewhere halfway around the world).
<<Numbers in the thousands…>>
Do you have any better suggestions for cleaners? And how many will I really need?
<<A handful of “cleaner shrimp” (Lysmata amboinensis) would be an interesting and beneficial addition>>
As for the Amblyeleotris guttata & shrimp and the Opistognathus aurifrons, I really like these guys, there is going to be a rather large open sandy area, could I get away with one to a few O. aurifrons and/or one or two shrimp/goby tandems (I’d be open to looking at a different goby species than A. guttata, any suggestions?)
<<I’m going to stand by my earlier comments re these fishes>>
So to clarify I am now looking at: 1-Sohal Tang, 1-Hippo Tang, 1-Kole Tang, 1-Purple or Gem Tang, 1 Pair-Watanabe's Angelfish, 1 Pair-Japanese Pigmy Angelfish or Coral Beauty Angelfish, 24-30-Chromis viridis, 7-9-Pseudanthias bartlettorum,, 5-Serranus tortugarum, 5-Pterapogan kaudneri 9-Apogon leptacanthus, 1-Salarias ceramensis, 3-4-Gobiosoma oceanops, 1-Valenciennea strigata, 1 Elacatinus puncticulatus, and maybe one/some red-headed gobies and 1-2 shrimp gobies & shrimp. Does this still look too overcrowded?
<<A bit, yes…per my earlier statements>>
I really don’t want to take any more out, guess I should have gotten a 400 gallon tank...lol.
<<Mmm, more like 600 [grin]>>
Maybe it will help once I figure out what the exact spec is on all of my equipment...
<<Not really…the “specifics” of the gear without the changes I suggested will have little impact in “my” opinion>>
Please do let me know if you think this mix is still too volatile, I really want a large mix (hence the reason I bought a 300) but I want it to be stable, and I for sure do not want to be torturing/killing any of my pets, that’s not fair to them or my wallet!
~Bryan
<<Have attempted to be concise with my suggestions/explanations…but the final decisions rest with you, mate. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Thinking Big- Stocking Small! (Stocking A Large System) – 07/18/07
Planning a 200 gallon saltwater tank, what do you think of the following fish:
Clown Surgeonfish (Acanthurus Lineatus)
Clown Triggerfish (Balistoides Conspicillum)
Harlequin Tuskfish (Choerodon Fasciatus)
Emperor Angelfish (Pomacanthus Imperator)
Maroon Anemonefish (Premnas Biaculeatus)
Harlequin Hind (Cephalopholis Polleni)
Blood Red Hawkfish (Cirrhitops Fasciatus)
and either a Coral Hind (Cephalopholis Miniata) or Metallic Blue Grouper (Anyperodon sp.)
<Yikes! A neat mix of fishes, but I foresee all sorts of possible aggression issues, not to mention the seriously overcrowded result and its devastating effect on the fishes in the long term. You'll definitely have to make some concessions here! I would not even consider the Clown Surgeon in anything less than several hundred gallons of size, if only for the fact that it's an extremely aggressive, large and intolerant fish! The Clown Trigger is another very large fish, which will give off copious amounts of metabolic waste. It could work as the sole large fish in this aquarium, but it's definitely not going to be a good choice in this aquarium with the stocking plan that you have. The Emperor Angel is a beautiful, popular fish, but it can and will reach 12 to 15 inches in the wild-and in the aquarium, and it needs a very, very large aquarium to live anything resembling a normal life span.>
How badly would I be overstocking and how would they get along?
<It would be REALLY badly overstocking. It's a mix of large, high-metabolic-waste-producing fishes that demand tremendous physical space. The potential for aggression is great. Personally, I'd compromise. I do like some of the selections in the latter half of your stocking list: The Anemonefish and Hawkfish, perhaps with the Harlequin Tuskfish as the "alpha" fish, would be a possibility. Really, I'd go with smaller fishes: A Centropyge or smaller Chaetodontoplus species of Angelfish would be a nice start, along with smaller fishes like Pseudochromids, Halichoeres species Wrasses, etc. These smaller, less space-demanding fishes are equally as colorful, interesting, and (in my humble opinion) sexy as the big guys! However, they adapt better to captivity, require dramatically less room, and will live long, healthy lives in a well-maintained system of this size.>
Would also like to add a Green Mandarin ( I read somewhere that other fish leave it
alone)
<Just say "no" to the Mandarin! Although it might be ignored as a food items by some of the fishes that you're talking about, it will be intimidated into starvation by the activity of the other tankmates. These fishes are really best in quiet, lightly stocked aquariums with very peaceful species. They eat slowly and are often quite shy. They'd do really well in a species aquarium designed just for them! Wow- could you imagine how cool a 200 gallon Mandarin biotope system would be, with seagrasses, some Fungiids ("Plate Corals"), Goniopora, and some other peaceful fishes? You'd have a huge tank with a meadow of seagrasses, populated with some unique, interesting fishes and corals...That would be different- and inspiring to other hobbyists! Wow- listen to me- going off the deep end again! Well, think about trying something different. Remember, just because you have a large aquarium doesn't mean that you have to keep large fishes!>
What would you take out, change, what size tank would hold these fish, Nick
<Well, Nick- my comments are above...If you were dead set on keeping this mix of fishes, I'd literally suggest a system of 800 gallons or more (preferably more). Anything less is sentencing these large fishes to a life of misery. Kind of like you or I being forced to spend the rest of our lives in our living rooms.. Comfortably initially (especially if you have Satellite TV!), but maddening over time. My philosophy has always been "Think Big-Stock Small". Hope this provides some insight. Regards, Scott F.>

- A Large Tank Inquiry 6/23/06 -
Hello WWM Crew.  First off I must say how much I appreciate such an incredible website from so many excellent aquarists, you have answered most of my questions, and helped me along with this wonderful hobby where information is sometimes scarce.  I've had a 120G (48in x 24in x 24in) reef tank set up and running nicely for about a year now, and I've been researching/looking into setting up a larger predator type tank (220G 72in x 30in x 24in). I've had quite a few sources of information, but it seems difficult to find the exact answer to my question.  The fish that I am interested in keeping in this tank are as follows:
1 Goldentail Moray (Gymnothorax miliaris)
1 Blue-ring Angelfish (Pomacanthus annularis)
1 Harlequin Tuskfish (Choerodon fasciatus)
1 Palette Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus) AND/OR 1 Naso Tang (Naso lituratus)
1 Clown Trigger (Balistoides conspicillum)
1 Picasso Trigger (Rhinecanthus aculeatus)
1 Porcupine Pufferfish (Diodon holocanthus)
I am fully aware of the potential size of each and every on of these specimens, and I am open to any worries/suggestions/changes that you have to offer. <Really, my main concern would be the clown trigger. These fish often become absolute terrors as they get larger and could easily kill everyone in the tank. I'd drop this one fish off the list or consider keeping it by itself in the 120 if you're going to keep that tank running.> I'm much more accustom to working with smaller reef fish which are much cleaner eaters and much less vicious. If anyone could let me know if that list is too much for that size of tank, or if there is room for anything else, I would be very thankful. <These fish will fill this tank so I'd just remove the clown trigger from the list and go for it.> So I hope someone can give me some input, and help me in my decision. Thanks for your time.
Alex C.
<Cheers, J -- >

Stocking a Large Marine Tank...Sequence of Introduction/Compatibility Issues – 01/15/07
Dear distinguished Wet Web Media Crew:
<<Greetings!>>
Best wishes for a happy and prosperous New Year,
<<Thank you...and may I wish you the same>>
and thank you for the benefit of your experience and wisdom.
<<Tis a pleasure to share>>
My wife and I spent nearly a year reading the information on your site and in your books before purchasing a 70-gallon marine system some eight months ago.
<<Most excellent to read this!  I love it when budding (and not so budding) hobbyists take to heart our pleads to read/research/learn what they can; and yes, ask questions, “beforehand” >>
All is going very well with the tank, set up as follows:
-oversized wet/dry filter with bio-balls
-Euro-Reef RS 135 protein skimmer
-Eheim 1262 recirculating pump
-50 lbs. Fiji live rock, 25 lbs. coral skeletons
-50 lbs. live sand
-3 fish: Queen Angelfish (Holacanthus ciliaris), Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurus), Clown Trigger (Balistoides conspicillum) - now all 3"-4"
<Mmm...you need a bigger tank mate>>
When we purchased these fish, we did so with the understanding that a larger tank would be needed in the future.
<<Sooner than later...>>
Thus, we have purchased an 8 foot, 450 gallon tank.
<<Ah!  Outstanding!>>
It will be recirculated by two Dolphin pumps at approximately 15x/hour, filtered through course, 100 micron and 50 micron filter pads, run through two protein skimmers with a combined capacity of 1,000 gallons and passed through Chemi-Pure before returning to the tank.
<<This sounds very good...and hopefully your research has made you aware of the importance of cleaning those micron pads “at least” weekly>>
The tank will contain 3/4" live sand, 500 lbs. of live rock and 100 lbs. of coral skeletons.
<<A word of caution/opinion here...  Don’t get caught up in the “pounds per gallon” adage for including live rock.  Instead, consider what you will need to provide an aesthetically pleasing display while also providing hiding/sleeping places for the fish but also leaving “plenty of room” for the fish to swim/move about.  Even in reef systems it is my opinion that hobbyists tend to cram way too much rock in to the tank...often fueled by the belief that “more is better” or because someone told them they needed “X” number of pounds per gallon of volume.  I have found in my systems that I have been able to get by with as little as half, and even less, the “recommended” quantity of live rock (most often pushed by those who “sell” the rock) and still maintain adequate bio-filtration (which in your case, a FOWLR system, can be easily and effectively augmented through the use of supplemental fluidized-bed filtration).  My suggestion to you would be to start with about half what you list of good quality porous live rock (do be cautious of dense/heavy limestone “cultured” rock), and nix the coral skeletons altogether>>
We would like to stock the tank in the following manner.  Initially, one mated pair of Maroon Clownfish (Premnas biaculeatus) and one Mappa Puffer (Arothron mappa) would go into the large tank (after cycling) in order to acclimate, grow and establish territories.
<<I would add the clownfish last...due to the very reasons you state.  Once these fish become established/grow large they can be surprisingly aggressive to the point of doing physical harm making it difficult to introduce more timid/gentle species later>>
After several months, the three existing fish (angel, tang and trigger) would be added to the large tank to join the clownfish and puffer.
<<A month between group additions should be sufficient>>
Three additional fish, a Harlequin Tuskfish (Choerodon fasciata) , Red Sea Bird Wrasse (Gomphosus caeruleus) and a Sohal Tang (Acanthurus sohal) would be placed in the 70 gallon tank for 6-12 months before moving to the large system.
<<I don’t understand this...why not just place in the larger tank as acquired?  Also worth mentioning in my opinion...despite their sometimes fierce appearance, the Tuskfish is relatively peaceful, sometimes even timid, (with regards to fishes...shrimp/crabs/snails are another matter) and should be one of the first fishes placed in this larger system>>
No other fish are planned given the concern for bioload in the future, as the fish grow.
<<Very good>>
Your thoughts, comments and suggestions (e.g., alternate or additional species, equipment recommendations, husbandry ideas, etc.) will be greatly appreciated.
<<Ah yes, one more thing...  Do read up some more on the Clown Trigger.  These fish are REAL BRUISERS...as this fish grows/matures it will very likely kill everything else in the tank along the way.  A better/alternate species in my mind is one from the genus Rhinecanthus.  Since you appear to have a penchant for Red Sea fishes, perhaps Rhinecanthus assasi would appeal to you>>
Sincerely,
Don and Jill
<<Regards, Eric Russell>>

Stocking/Compatibility, Lg. SW    12/18/06
Hi Crew,
I'm saving up for a 265G tank and have developed my stocking 'wish' list. I wrote a few weeks back, but my wife has reviewed and thus the list has changed.
<Heeee!>
It will be a FOWLR with some ornamental shrimps. My concern lies with the compatibility of the angels below (2 pairs of the same genus) and whether the overall tank size for this list is appropriate. Are there any other concerns that you see with this?
Scribbled Angel Chaetodontoplus dubolayi
Blue Spotted Angelfish Chaetodontoplus caeruleopunctatus
Flame Angel Centropyge loriculus
Golden Pygmy Angel Centropyge aurantia
Powder Blue Tang Acanthurus leucosternon
Fridmani Pseudochromis  (2)Pseudochromis fridmani
Yellow Tang Zebrasoma flavescens
Golden Butterfly Chaetodon semilarvatus
False Percula Clownfish (2)Amphiprion ocellaris
Helfrichi Firefish (2)Nemateleotris helfrichi
Your thoughts/inputs are greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Ian
<In a tank this size... starting with "mid-size" or smaller individuals, you should be okay here. Once these fishes are grown a bit, established... it may prove difficult to introduce much in the way of others in their niches. Bob Fenner>

Large SW Aquarium Stocking - 1/25/07
Mr. Fenner:  
<Hey Dennis, JustinN with you today.>
I would very much like your input as to a salt  water aquarium that I am setting up.   
<Ok>
The dimensions are as  follows:  6' long,  2' tall and 30" wide.  
<2 foot deep? I hope you've got some long arms, my friend! *grin*>
I want to purchase a  young salt water angelfish that will be the star attraction of the  aquarium.    
<Ok>
I want an angel fish that will be hardy, but the  main thing is to have a personality much like a fresh water Oscar or a salt  water bat fish.   Would you please give me a list of some of the   angels that are noted for their personality.   
<To my knowledge, all larger angelfish are noted for their personality. We cannot make this choice for you, Dennis, as it is not our aquarium. In an aquarium the size you describe, any aquarium-suitable species should do wonderfully. See here for more info on the species available: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/bestmarangs.htm and the files linked in blue above.>
Also, there will be  live rock in the aquarium.  I would also like a  school of Chromis,  either the green or blue variety.  I do not want to overstock the  aquarium.   
<Not a whole lot of chance of that with your aquarium size, and current intended stocklist... you will do fine.>
How many Chromis would you suggest?  
<7 to 9>
And would you  also give me a list of some other small fish that I could add to the aquarium  that would be 4" and under.  Many thanks for your help.    Dennis.
<The list of smaller fish here is innumerable, Dennis. We really cannot make the choices here for you, and all this information you request is available, both here at WetWebMedia, and at many other locations around the net. Perhaps a thorough browsing through our species selection sections is in your future? Start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm and follow the indices to the information you seek. -JustinN>

Preparation, SW, large sys... still not ready   3/21/07
Hello all!
  I have emailed your site for over a month now. The advice I have received and the knowledge I have gained is immeasurable!  Thank you.
  I will be setting up a 240g (96x24x24) in the near future.  I am going to forgo the clown trigger due to what I have read on this site and references for other local fish store owners.
  I am deeply intrigued by the Hawaiian dragon eel.  I have read up on it and asked several questions before. Thank you once again for your help.
  The Hawaiian dragon eel is going to be the center piece of my aquarium.  As for the tank mates I would really appreciate your advice.  I was thinking of adding a Pinktail trigger, Naso tang, emperor angel (I was told that the emperor angel will get to
<too>
big for the dimensions of this aquarium.
<Yes>
If so, what other large angel could suggest?)
<Mmmm, for having the Moray as your center piece... none>
and a volitans lionfish.  For filtration I will be using a Euro-reef RC250 with and ozonizer.
<Mmm... need more... biological, mechanical...>
I will be employing a closed loop system for added water movement.  As per Anthony Calfo's diagram.  I will have two overflows and was wondering how to make it a closed loop with not being able to put pvc in front of the overflow?
<Mmm... could loop around, truncate on either side, even drill through...>
  My questions are as follows.  Are these fish compatible with the Hawaiian dragon eel?
<All are potential prey>
Is this too many fish for the system?
<Mmm... not initially>
If the fishes are not compatible, what fishes would you recommend?
<Heeeee! You're not joking? To go with what? The Moray... see WWM re the "Compatibility" and "Systems" of what you list, are interested in...>
Do I have adequate filtration and water movement?  
<No>
  I would really like a trigger and a lionfish but know that this may not be possible.
  Thank you once again for your patience and time.  It is greatly appreciated!
  Brent
<You're getting closer... but I'd still be reading, studying, dreaming and scheming at this planning stage. Bob Fenner>

Livestock Choices for Large Fish Only  – 05/03/07
Guys,
<Hello Adam...this is Adam with you this morning.>
Right now in my 240 g saltwater, I have 20 blue Chromis, 2 yellow tail damsels, a dogface puffer, a Sweetlips, a lawnmower blenny and 4 large hermit crabs.
<So the puffer and the Sweetlips are either too small to eat the damsels/Chromis or too slow.>
I'd like to add an assortment of angels, butterflyfish and tangs but want to add the right number and right kinds so that the tank remains--it's doing great now--a peaceful community.
<Well; what specific animals out of the families you mentioned are you interested in? Some angels, even in a tank of this size, will not do well with co-geners or conspecifics; same with the surgeons.>
Also, if there other fish to recommend please do so.
<This is a matter of personal preference of course and I don't know what your set-up is like.  You have some compatibility issues already...the puffer can/will become "nippy" as he ages and if the Sweetlips lives to adulthood (most don't in aquaria) he will eventually begin hunting your smaller specimens. So before I recommend livestock choices, I'd like you to divulge a little more on your preferences and what the direction of the tank is.>
Thanks,
<Welcome.>
Adam
<Adam J.>

Re: Stocking a 240g saltwater tank  – 5/5/07
Adam,
<Adam.>
Thanks for this info.  Give me a few days to read up on the links and names you provided and I'll get back to you with some more questions.
<Ten-Four.>
Thanks,
<Welcome.>
APH
<AJ.>

Re: Stocking a 240g saltwater tank – 5/4/07
Adam,
<Adam.>
Thanks for getting back to me.
<No problem, anytime...usually I'm quicker.>
The Sweetlips is about 7 inches long and I've had him for about a year.
<Good, that's longer than most folks have them.>
He loves feeder goldfish
<Mmm...do read this; http://www.wetwebmedia.com/goldfshfd.htm .>
but I mostly feed him frozen shrimp, squid, octopus, etc.
<All good.>
He's yet to chase the Chromis or damsels.
<Interesting for him to recognize the goldfish as food yet not chase fish of similar size.>
Dog face puffer is the same size and is slower than the Sweetlips but a bigger eater <As most puffers are.>
--eats same food as above.
<Cool.>
So, I'd like to have as many angels/tangs/butterflyfish in the 240 g with as much color variation as possible.
<As far as angels I'm a huge fan of Genicanthus angels; they are planktivores and they can be kept in harems (one male, multiple female groups). I'm also a fan of the three amigos (though only two are attainable really; http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/zonipectus.htm). As far as butterflies; a  duo of Heniochus could suit you. Surgeons, well I'd stay away from  most of those in the Acanthurus genus...they get pretty big, though a few may suit you, same goes for those in the Naso genus. Check out the Zebrasoma genus first. Much more detailed info is posted on WWM.>
If moving the Sweetlips and/or puffer down the road is needed I do have room for another (4th) tank.
<Awesome.>
Right now I have a very peaceful 130g tank (5' x 30" tall x 18" deep) and an aggressive tank 6x2x18" that has a clown trigger, niger trigger, Foxface lo and snowflake eel.
<The eel and the Foxface might actually be more suited to the peaceful tank; I'd consider swapping them out with the Sweetlips or the puffer...or even both.>
Basically what I need to know is the exact different types of tangs that can live together (if introduced together) plus the same with butterflies and angels.
<There's really no hard and true rules, too many variables among species and individuals for that matter. How about if you come up with a stocking list I'll look over it and/or modify it for you.>
And also what's the most fish I can add at once to a 240g without upsetting any chemical/waste issues for the water.
<Well obviously you need to quarantine them first, and it depends on the size temperament of the fish but generally I prefer no more than one or two at a time. Of course there are exceptions...likely with the surgeons/tangs if you choose to get more than one.>
I care for the fish daily but I also have a pro come in twice a month for water changes, salinity checks etc.
<Cool.>
Also, I know these fish can be costly but give me advice as if cost were no object--I can always work down from there.
<Use the WWM search engine on the home page and enter the animals I talked about above...there are pictures as well...see if you like any of those.>
I appreciate your advice and really enjoy the site.
Please let me know if there is anything else you need to know about my set-up that can help you in your counsel.
From one Adam to another,
APH
<Adam J.>

The Big Picture (Big Fish- Big Tanks!>
I've read though all your FAQs about lionfish. I found them very interesting and informative. I wanted to ask your opinion about the number of fish in our tank. I'm concerned after reading all the FAQs that we have too many fish.
<Definitely worth looking at...>
We started out with George and Lenny. George is a black Volitans lion. He's now about 5 inches long.
Lenny is a panther grouper. They were tank mates at the pet store for a long time before my husband fell in love with George, so we bought them both. They were in a 55 gallon tank with live rock only. But we have since moved them into a 72 gallon bowfront, with the live rock. And since the move we have also added Leo and Cleo, 3 inch black Volitans lions. And Frank, a green wolf eel, who is about 8 inches long. Just today, he brought home Frick and Frack, two yellow tangs. They are about 2 inches a piece.
<Okay- no need to go further- it's seriously crowded, and you'll definitely need to move up to a MUCH larger tank for the long-term benefit of these fishes. They are small now, but they will get bigger- soon. And, there will be a lot of metabolic waste production with these fishes. Lon-term environmental stability is a concern here>
We do have good filtration and a skimmer. I can't give you specifics without asking, but can provide them if its important. I do check the water and its doing very good. We have too many fish don't we?
<I'm afraid so. On the brighter side- your husbandry techniques have been good so far- imagine what they would do in a much larger tank!>
Our goal is to get another 125 gallon tank, but we haven't decided what to put in it. My husband has dreams of an Hawaiian Dragon Eel...insert sigh here...
<Yep- major sigh...Insert custom order for 70 gallon acrylic tank with 300 gallon refugium here...>
we have one 125 gallon already, its full of clowns, dwarf angels and a lot of other cool fish that George and Company would scarf down in a second. I'm thinking if we do get another 125 gallon tank that we should keep George (the big one and my baby), the two tangs and the eel. Is that too much even?
<Better, but I'd honestly look at two 240 gallon tanks! I know that is a conservative stocking approach, but with big-time eaters and big-time waste producers, such as the ones that you have- the old adage about "dilution being the solution to pollution" holds true. More water, higher flow rates, major skimming, and lots of water changes will all benefit your animals.>
My husband could keep his dragon eel in the 72 gallon. Alone.
<I think it would be better in a 125 plus- alone. Or, consider a "Golden Dwarf Moray". Pricey, but it has lots of the "features" of the big guys in an 8-10 inch package!>
Any advice or opinions you could share with me would be greatly appreciated. I love my lion. I don't want to hurt him unintentionally just because my husband has a fish fetish. LOL
Thanks, Teri
<Understood, Teri! I'd just think about expanding to either one much larger tank, or a few smaller ones (by "small", I mean 100 gallons plus). It seems kinda frustrating, but the big fishes do need big tanks for long-term success...Best of luck! Think BIG! Regards, Scott F>

- Large Tank, Large Fish -
hi! really, really love the sight!
I have these fish now in many lg tanks but I'm wanting to put them together! I know some fish wont do well together but if I had a lg enough  tank would it work? tank size - 120x48x30 and fish are as follows:
blonde Naso, BlueLine trigger, shoal tang, powder blue tang, Emp. angel, Mac angel, Moorish idol, zebra eel, Epaul. shark, Aussie tusk fish, blue dot grouper, Mappa puffer
thank you
Bart
<Well, Bart, even with a tank of this size, there are still bound to be some problems. The Tangs and Angels would likely be fine. The Grouper would probably get large enough in such a system to make a meal of your other specimens, in spite of their size. Likewise, I would probably leave the shark in a species specific system - but otherwise, if you put together a tank of this size and have sufficient places for all the fish to hide, then it should work out.
Cheers, J -- >

Big Tank- Big Plans!
Hi Crew.
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
First off, thanks for all of your ongoing help to us marine enthusiasts. I do spend hours reading through articles and letters while enjoying and learning.
<We're glad that you enjoy it! We sure get a kick out of bringing it to you!>
I have an established 55 gallon marine aquarium with crushed coral substrate, live rock, some mushrooms, polyps, and a Ritteri anemone which house two Perculas. My other inhabitants are the usual cleaning crew of Blue Legged Hermits, Turbo snails, a Sally Lightfoot crab and a Serpent Star, a Green Wrasse, a Royal Gramma, a Mandarin and the boss of the tank, a Flame Angel. All in all, they seem to cohabitate fine together. In a few months I will upgrade my to a 180-200 gallon system.
<Cool!>
Of course, I will let the new system cycle properly (I hope to give it a head start with some water from my existing set-up), and I have all the proper skimming equipment, powerheads, mechanical filters etc. Will the following new additions be good members of this community system? A small eel of some kind (any specific suggestions ?)...
<Well, there are a number of small Moray species that may be interesting. However, Morays do require significant water volume and great attention to husbandry. I've never though of them as "community fishes", to be quite honest with you. I think a dedicated display would prove to be a better route!>
2-3 Banggai Cardinals, possibly a smaller Lion fish (again any recommended species?) a few tangs i.e.: a Hippo, a Naso,
and Yellow (or Kole) hoping these are different enough from each other to discourage fighting,
<I'd avoid the Naso, as these guys get huge, requiring a really large tank (like 8 feet long and over 300 gals) to be truly happy, IMO. The other tangs seem like they could work, if introduced as young, smaller specimens.>
...and lastly as the showpiece some type of larger angel (French or Queen maybe?).
<Again- the size issue is foremost with these angels. They can reach up to 18 inches in length, and require really large quarters. I'd go for a smaller variety. Perhaps, with enough cover (and if they are all introduced together), you could try another two Centropyge angelfish. It's still a calculated risk, but it could prove interesting if it works.>
Please comment on the type that might be best for my system. I do realize that each of these must be added slowly over time.
<Agreed! Slow and steady does the trick.>
I don't want this new set up to become a predator tank so I am wondering about the Lion and the Eel.
<Well, the Lion and Eel will give you an instant predator tank! if you want to be truly different, I'd shoot for a neat community of smaller blennies and gobies, and maybe some other interesting fishes, like Pseudochromids and the like. Big tank with small fish-a bold concept that I wish more hobbyists would try!>
I don't want stressed fish so I am asking your opinion on these selections. Sorry for the long letter but I value your opinion.
<Happy to be of service! I wish you luck with your new tank! Regards, Scott F.>

Tank Recommendations - 06/20/05
WWM Crew,
How's it going?
<<Well, thank you.>>
I'm sure you get a lot of these types of "Is this right?" questions so I appreciate anyone who can take the time to reply.
<<Just glad you're asking the questions now <G>.>>
I'm currently planning (I over plan everything. From substrate to filtration to livestock to daily/monthly routines) a 375 gallon reef tank.
<<SWEET!  That happens to be what I have too!>>
It will be 96x30x30 with a sump of around 80 gallons.
<<Hey man!...you been peekin' in my window?>>
That is unless I can get it plumbed into the closet in which case I want to go bigger.
<<There ya go!>>
As well, it will have a 100 gallon refugium that will be on a stand next to it.
<<Excellent!>>
My goal is to actually make the refugium interesting and not something hidden away.
<<Is just as fascinating as the main display, yes.>>
With mainly Chaetomorpha and Gracilaria Parvispora for occasional tang feeding.
<<Both great algae for a vegetable refugium...but I would recommend picking just one to go with.  Just like corals, the algae will compete for space/dominance in the refugium.>>
The refugium will have a 6-8" sand bed, 150-175 pounds of Fiji live rock, and will be where I can finally put my 3-stripe damsel.
<<Dude...I was right there with ya up to this point!  With the sand bed (which I applaud) and the live rock, you won't have much room for macroalgae growth.  I would suggest choosing one method or the other (rock 'fuge or veggie 'fuge).  And whatever you do...DON'T put that damsel in the refugium, it will quickly deplete your pod population (read: defeat the purpose of the refugium).>>
As well, I'm planning on keeping a mated pair of coral banded shrimp, and a flame hawk in this tank as well.
<<All good.  But do be aware hawk fish are neither peaceful nor particularly reef-safe.>>
Moving on, the main display will have over 500 lbs of live rock (mainly Fiji, but some Tonga branch), a 3-4" sand bed.
<<Way too much rock, in my opinion.  Think about going for a more "open" seascape.  Open space/rockwork looks fantastic in a large tank like this, gives corals/fish space to grow "big", not to mention the ease on the pocket book.  You really don't need to "fill" the tank with rock for effective bio-filtration, specially with the DSB (I'd bump that to 5-6 inches, by the way.)
The skimming will be done with a Euro-Reef CS12-3 and I'll also be using a KNOP Calcium Reactor S-IV. This is the only brand that I've found for this size at a reasonable price. Any recommendations would be great.
<<No problems here with either product.  I have the same skimmer on my 375, though I went with the PM-CR622 for my calcium reactor.>>
As well as Maxi-jet's, Tunze Turbelle Streams, and such for water movement.
<<Love those Streams!  I'm pushing around about 11,000 gph...would recommend same (or more) for you.>>
My first question is about lighting.
<<Uh oh...shoulda been pacing myself.>>
My goal is to primarily keep LPS with some Zoanthids and a couple of Montipora SPS species.  Would you recommend 4 400W MH or 4 250w MH?
<<Wouldn't recommend 400w even of you were keeping "high light" acros...go with the 250w... or better yet 150w (DE), considering what you want to keep.>>
Also, do you think PC actinics or VHO actinics would work better?
<<Moot point...use 10,000k halide bulbs and the actinics will be for your pleasure, not the corals.>>
Would 1 watt blue LED's reach the bottom of the tank for moon lighting?
<<Yes.  But again...this is for you.>>
Also, what do you recommend for Kelvin rating? I've seen really good tanks with 10,000k and 14,000k, but have also heard recommendations for mixing different ratings.
<<Maybe...tis up to you.  My recommendation is all 10K.>>
I know much of this is opinion questions, but I really do like getting honest opinion.
<<No prob!  Opinions I have in abundance <G>.>>
As far as livestock, I'd like to know if you foresee any problems with this livestock list (attained over a very long period, 2+ years).  All quantities are 1 unless stated otherwise: Opistognathus aurifrons,
<<Hold off on the mandarin for at least a year (good advice for all fish if you can do it!) until the refugium can provide a sustainable food supply.>>
6 Chromis viridis, Centropyge Aurantius, Centropyge Multispinis, Ecsenius Midas, Salarias Fasciatus,
<<I don't really consider ANY blenny to be "reef-safe.">>
2 Amphiprion Ocellaris, 2 Black Amphiprion Percula, 2 Elacatinus Oceanops, 2 Pterapogon Kauderni, 1 Stonogobiops Nematodes, Gobiodon strangulatus, 1 Gobiodon Okinawae, 2 Nemateleotris Decora,
<<The gobies will be great in this tank.>>
Paracheilinus Filamentous, Wetmorella nigropinnata, Cirrhilabrus, Laboutei, Pseudanthias Dispar, Oxycirrhites Typus,
<<Longnose hawks are fascinating, curious fish...but you'd be surprised at the size shrimp they can get in their mouths...you are forewarned.>>
Centropyge Loriculus, Centropyge Bispinosus, Tank Bred Pseudochromis Fridmani, Tank Bred Pseudochromis Springeri, Acanthurus Achilles,
<<I can't endorse the Achilles Tang...needs more flow/more space than even this tank can supply.>>
Ctenochaetus Hawaiiensis, Paracanthurus hepatus , Zebrasoma Flavescens,
<<Honestly...not a tang person when it comes to reef tanks...but these last three should be fine in this size system...if you must <G>.>>
2 Blue Synchiropus Splendidus.
<<Again with the mandarins?  Please do wait on these.>>
As well as various snails, hermits, and cleaner shrimp.
<<Other than noted...a fine selection...do keep an eye on the pygmies though...can be risky to mix so many, even in a big tank, as well as a risk to corals.>>  
Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated. I'm just looking to make sure I have the best possible start that I can provide for my underwater friends. Also, one last question, I want to use a 55 gallon tank just for holding live rock to culture algae on it so I can put it into the main display for the tangs and angels and then remove it and continually replace it with other pieces in the algae tank about once a week. My question, what lighting would you recommend for growing algae on the rock and would I have to use any supplements on this tank as well to encourage growth?
<<No supplements...and a couple or three 65w 6500K PC lights will serve you well.>>
Thank you again for your help.
Nick
<<Is a pleasure, Eric R.>>

Large System - 08/16/05
I recently acquired a 600 gallon tank that I am planning some upgrades  for.  
<<cool>>
The tank came with 2 - 6' VHO's.  It's a 4' tall tank, and I just want it to look REALLY nice, not necessarily try to grow anything in it (aside from healthy fish).
<<ok>>
I haven't gotten it filled yet, or the lights hooked up so I'm not sure how bright it's going to be, but I'm curious if VHOs can hack it or would it be recommended to bump it up to halides even though its a FOWLR.
<<The VHOs will work fine for the fish (may want to add a couple more tubes), but I wouldn't expect any life to "flourish" on the live rock in the bottom third of the tank.  I prefer the look of a single-point light source myself...and considering the depth of this tank, would likely opt for the halides.>>  
I want to mount my 125 above the 600 if that is possible and use it as a refugium/invert display to complement my FOWLR, so it  would be nice if I could avoid the heating issues that would inevitably arise with halides.
<<A valid concern...but don't be fooled in to believing VHOs won't be hot.  The use of cooling/exhaust fans will likely be required for either application.>>
That leads to my next question and that is...are there any nifty tricks aside from drilling (glass tank), and overflow boxes (the  devil) to getting a top mounted tank to overflow to a tank below?
<<Not that I'm aware/would trust.  Drilling really is you're best option.>>  
Third question - The tank came with two Oceanclear canisters (which I am scraping for this project), and two 1200 gph external pumps.  There are four drilled holes and bulkheads in the bottom of the tank from this, and two pumps I have no great use for.  Would it be hazardous at all to just run two small closed-loops right out the bottom - provided that I elevated the drains above
the substrate?
<<Employ "true" closed-loops and you have no worries.>>
And would that be worthwhile?
<<Absolutely!>>
I'm going to plumb a Dolphin AquaSea in for a closed loop on the back so if I had to plumb them any other way it probably wouldn't be worth the hassle.
<<More flow the better...whether a reef or a FOWLR.>>  
Lastly - just before my dreams get out of control - assuming I have top notch water quality, and 600+ lbs of live rock how many "stocking rules" can I break in a tank this size?
<<Every tank has it's own set of rules...>>
Can I keep a school of Yellow or Blue  Tangs...or multiple Pomacanthus angels...or keep a Sohal with other types of  tangs...or....you get the picture :)
<<Unfortunately yes, I do <G>... You don't give the tank dimensions, but at 4 feet in height I'm guessing it's no longer than 8 feet (96"x48"x30" ?).  The Sohal gets too big even for this tank to be happy/well adjusted for its lifetime...the blue tangs (Hippo?), though not quite as large as the Sohal at maturity, are so robust, active, and high strung/twitchy as to (in my opinion) require more swimming room, more flow, and more "hidey holes", than most casual hobbyist can provide...especially if more than one.  As for the yellow tangs, I might be tempted to try a trio (all same size introduced together) in this tank.  Careful selection of a Pomacanthus might prove interesting as well (two might be trouble)...tho be warned, these can/will become bruisers at maturity...choose tank mates well.  At least research your selections (fishbase.org provides good info on adult size, gut content (food), etc.) and seriously consider their requirements/needs before purchase.>>  
Muchas Gracias, I always appreciate your input.
Scott
<<Happy to be here to assist/give opinion.  Regards, EricR>>

Big Fish- Big Tank? 10/12/05
Hi Crew!
<Heya! Scott F. at your service!>
I did look at your FAQ's to make sure the question I have was not previously asked/answered and did not find specific answers to my question.
<No problem...>
Basics: 220 gallon Oceanic 72" long tank with Tonga Supreme live rock, live sand substrate, 40 watt UV sterilizer, Aqua Medics protein skimmer, Seio power heads, large wet/dry with filter, refugium, etc...
Currently have a beautiful 30" Zebra Moray, 2.5" Volitans Lionfish, 5.5" Bicolor Fiji Rabbitfish, with several Turbo Snails and Hermit Crabs.
Question: I am adding this week a Chevron Tang and wanted to know if I added a Desjardini Red Sea Sailfin and Prionurus laticlavius (Yellowtail Sawtail Tang) if you thought they would get along??? This mix is a divergence from the more popular Purple, Yellow, and PB (Blue Hippo) Tangs that most people buy. I know some folks indicate that tangs should be introduced together; however I will be adding them individually.
<Well, my best advice is to consider the "end game' here. The Desjardini can hit 15" plus, and the Prionurus gets even larger. I think the issue here is more the size of the fish than their possible compatibility. I'm sure that they could get along socially, but not in this sized aquarium. Even a 220 is too small to house both of these guys together for anything close to a natural life span, IMO. I'm looking at my 225 right now, and I cannot imagine these two guys living together comfortably in my tank for an extended period. Perhaps in a 400 or 500 gallon plus tank, yes.>
My last fish after the tangs will either be a Majestic or Emperor Angel, which will make 7 fish. Do you think this is a good mix and fine with the tank size I have?
<To be honest, no. My personal philosophy has always been, "Why keep large fish just because you have a large tank?". Granted, that's my kooky world view, but it warrants consideration. You're talking about fishes that can and do reach well over a foot in length. Placing them in even a 6-foot plus tank is questionable. Kind of like you and I living the rest of our lives in our living rooms. Sort of comfortable, but after a while, you'd go nuts! Why not consider stocking fishes that hit a maximum length of say, 6"-8"? There are plenty of neat fishes that are in that range, and they'll be a lot happier in your tank. One more fact to consider: A study I read indicated that the adult Emperor Angel typically ranges over an area about half the size of a football field! Obviously, you can take this argument to absurd lengths, but the point is - think small!>
One last question: my Lionfish will absolutely not eat frozen, only live feeders. I can only get ghost shrimp, prawn shrimp, and feeder guppies in which I place Zoe drops into the bag they are in and let them set in there until they are fed to the Lion. Would this be okay long term if he just won't eat the frozen?
<It can work, but you really want to wean him to prepared foods, ideally foods of marine origin, as they have the proper nutritional profile for this fish. Keep trying>
I have gone a long time in between feedings to hope to entice him with frozen food on a clear feeding stick (wiggling it) but he hides in the rocks every time. Your thoughts?
<My advice is to keep doing what you're doing...Don't give up. He will eventually come around-could take a long time, but it will happen eventually.>
Thanks for your help and outstanding dedication to this hobby and I look forward to your comments.
Steven
<Best of luck, Steven. Regards, Scott F.>