Lionfish: Tank size and compatibility (again)   8/22/07
Hello folks,
<David>
I know that this is a commonly asked question on this site, but the answers from the various WWM staff have left me confused.
I have a 125g tank (72"x18"x21") that I would like to have a Pterois volitans, a Pterois antennata and a Siganus magnificus. I'm in the process of building a sump from a 30g long tank that will house an MRC MR-1 skimmer and a refugium (plan on having 5" DSB, Chaetomorpha for nutrient removal and a Ulva or red macroalgae for feeding to the Rabbitfish). Two Mag 7 pumps for the returns and two Koralia 2 (perhaps Koralia 3s after some other advice) for water flow. I'm aiming at having a 2" DSB in the DT and about 120# of LR.
So. Doable without having to eventually upgrade the size of the tank when the fish reach full growth (relatively speaking, I realize that as long as a fish is living it is growing)?
<Mmm, yes>
Is there a more-than-slight risk of the volitans eating the magnificus once adult size is reached?
<No... should be large enough, spiny-enough to get by>
Is there room for any other residents?
<Not much fish-wise...>
I'd like to include a larger snail (tiger crowlie or conch)
<Cowry? I'd go with the Conch>
as a large form of cleaning crew. I'm trying to keep a theme to the tank (venomous - I'm a toxicologist), so there aren't a lot of other types of fish that I'm really considering.
<Though there are many other families...>
I don't like the general appearance of squirrelfish, and anything else is either small enough that it will become lionfish food or blend in with the aquascaping.
Thank you in advance.
David Kelman
<And at full size, the three will be about all this volume can handle psycho- and physio-logically. Bob Fenner>

75 gallon lionfish aquarium set up  6/10/07
Hello crew!
<Hello, Stanley.>
I am presently deployed, and planning to set up either a 75g (which I have) or 90g tank, with a dwarf lionfish (or maybe a Russell's Lion) in a few months. Both my young boys want this, so it is a definite.
<Great for the young'uns to appreciate and learn from!>
My question regards tankmates, since a single lion will probably be pretty laid back and not swim as much.
<Indeed.>
My choice of a Picasso trigger is out (due to tank size),
<Could be good for a while as they grow slowly and some LFS's take them back in trade at the larger sizes. Think about that as a possible option. (Of course, you would want to make sure the LFS will do this first...) >
but I was wondering about a snowflake eel (chosen due to the fact it will primarily occupy the bottom area of the tank)
<Another pretty laid back reclusive customer...>
and possible one other relatively active fish. I plan on using fake decorations and an Aqua-C skimmer for filtration, along with a canister until I can go with something bigger/better.
<Not the best way, but can be made to work with due diligence.>
I live for water changes, so that should cover most of the waste these fish will produce, right?
<Only time will tell, Stanley.>
Thanks for your help. I've read through the site, and gotten a good deal of info already. I just want this setup to be planned properly before I start setup and purchase of any livestock.
<I would usually chime in here with the mantra about keeping messy eaters in a relatively small tank with less-than-adequate filtration, coupled with the absence of beneficial live rock. While this is a valid point, and should be considered before you finalize your plans, I will ease up tonight and just say that even the least sophisticated setups can work as long as the proper steps are taken to maintain pristine water conditions. If you are doing your water changes frequently and with excellent source-stock, then there's no reason inadequate filtration should hamper even a messy-eating aggressive FO tank. That said, you will have more time to appreciate the system if it is planned for in the utmost, and actually beyond what is the minimum for your chosen denizens. Translate: Consider a better filtration setup from the start and adding live-rock. These are ways to shift the bio-load in favor of the nitrifying bacteria, and expand the buffer needed to maintain said pristine conditions.
-GrahamT>
Best regards,
Stan

Re: 75 gallon lionfish aquarium set up  6/13/07
Wow! Thanks for such a quick (and informative) reply.
<You're welcome, and sorry for the delay on this reply!>
I appreciate the fact that everyone on The Crew focuses on what is best long term, and not what I "can use."
<Is "what works".>
I do confess that, like Mr. Fenner, I too am a bit enamoured with the whole process of tangling with sales folks at the LFS, just not when it is at the expense of my livestock's welfare.
<Good stores are out there, but hard to find...>
Given this, and the fact that I am willing to wait until I do have better filtration,
<Kudos.>
what would be the ideal filtration setup for such a tank as this?
<Big sump, lots of liverock, protein skimmer, DSB...>
My tank isn't drilled for or equipped with an overflow, and I am not too confident on the external overflows, but would consider that if a sump was the best way to go.
<Is, IMO.>
Would hang on power filters with live rock work (like an AC 500, etc),
<Anything can "work", but you need room for error and experimentation. Hang on filters don't provide much cushion, or room for expansion. The other bonus of a sump is the hidden place for accessories it provides you with.>
and if so, how much live rock to add without compromising the swim space my lionfish will need? I'd guess 2+lbs a gallon would close things up pretty quickly.
Even if I can't do it all at first, I would at least like to address these issues before I set up the tank, so I can add them without placing too much stress on the system later.
<That's what I like to hear (er, read).>
Are there any more favorites you would suggest adding with the lionfish besides what I have mentioned? I'd value your opinion(s), as it is hard to tell from a profile just how much personality an individual fish will exhibit.
<Well, I don't actually give out suggestions on someone's specimen selections. Taste varies from person to person, and have the fun of building a stocking list is in the research and design of the system. What I want you to keep in mind is that the most successful systems are those designed for their inhabitants, rather than a saltwater tank with animals dumped into it.>
Sorry for so many questions, but I do appreciate your help. I will keep reading up on the website.
<It never ends. >
I have been in/around the hobby for many
years, even running a freshwater aquarium service for a while, and this has to be some of the best, most responsible posting I've ever seen.
<Thank you very much! It goes a long way for this stressed-out all-volunteer staff of crewers to hear these kind words. Also, since it serves from time to time, I would like to thank you for your use of proper English, grammar and punctuation. These are oft forgotten in the rush to get the email sent, and we spend valuable time correcting many an email. Thank you, Stanley.
-GrahamT>
Thanks!
Stan
<Good reads, all of them:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/sumprffiltfaqs.htm
Links in blue...>

Re: 75g lionfish aquarium, lionfish sump design – 06/14/07
Hello Crew,
<'Allo.>
After your recent reply (Thanks!) <Welcome, Stan.> regarding my plans for a 75g lionfish aquarium, I am now focusing my attention on designing the best possible filtration/tank combination before going any further with livestock considerations.
I am most likely going to be using a 55g display, which means a dwarf lionfish, with the likelihood of no other tankmates, based on what I have read on the many posts and articles I've seen here.
<I thought you said 75g? You can have other tankmates with the dwarf lion. Those too quick and sharp-eyed to be eaten, that stay small enough so they don't add to the bioload immensely (some wrasses in the genera Halichoeres and Pseudocheilinus might be nice, and contrast nicely with the temperament of a lion).>
I know from my freshwater experience doing services on sumps, that bioball equipped sumps can be nitrate-factories,
<Pre-filtration and cleaning said filters is key here. I still have some bioballs in one of my cubes...>
so I am leaning toward a sump that will utilize an Aqua C skimmer in the first chamber,
<This skimmer *may* be a pain to keep adjusted properly, as the level in the sump will be fluctuating regularly. (Don't quote me there, never tried) The hang-on style is best-utilized on the display where the level is constant - maintained so by the sump. There is a Deltec-knockoff that I have in a service account that is truly excellent. I can't remember the name right now, but if you reply to this post within the next few days, I will try to forward it to you.>
then spill into a 4-5" deep sand bed in the main sump, which will have a 10-15 gallon refugium plumbed to it via a ball valve from the main return (the refugium would just spill back into the main sump from a surface level drain.
<Very nice... go on.>
Flow rate on the return should be around 300 to 350 gallons per hour.
<I hope you mean the return to the sump from the refugium?>
Am I on the right track with this setup, and understanding that the refugium would be properly stocked with around 15 pounds of live rock?
<That much rock is not necessary, except when considering the 'pods as a food source. You might as well have the extra room for the macro to grow.>
Also, how important is lighting to the regimen (should it run 24 hours or not at all)?
<The lighting schedule will be determined by the demand of the species of macro you keep. I don't personally see the need to run any refugium lighting on 24 hours. Usually, it is sufficient to run opposite the main display, as this helps keep pH stable. I addition, many macro-algae need a period of dark to reverse their metabolic function as in nature.>
I also have a UV sterilizer available, would this be beneficial?
<If you have it, you may as well use it every now and again... but it isn't necessary, or especially beneficial for this setup in particular.>
I am planning on using fake corals and "dead" rock in the display tank, so there won't be any live rock there (primarily due to budget and the size of the tank).
<In this case, I would suggest you consider buying *some* liverock and building up over it with the decorations. In the service setting, we drill the live rock and fit our decorations with posts that fit into the holes.>
If I can add a Coral Beauty, second dwarf lion or similarly sized fish, that's great, but I figure I need to have the best filtration system possible before I get into livestock.
<Good plan, Stan. (Isn't that a song... "...bus, Gus...">
Sorry if I am asking too many questions.
<I'll get over it, Stan. We appreciate the attention to detail and the apparent desire to make everything work before the animals are introduced. So often we are treated like the emergency clinic. "Help! My fish is gonna die if you don't help me!!!">
I will keep reading WWM posts and articles, which have been really helpful.
<Ahh....>
Right now I am doing all this on paper, so I can easily erase any mistakes without killing any fish.
<Isn't that nice?>
Thanks for such a great site!
Stan
<Keep up the good work, Stan!
-GrahamT>

Lionfish in Small Tanks 4/27/07
What are the dangers of keeping a lionfish in too small of a tank.  <Death to the fish and maybe to its tankmates.> I bought a lion fish a few days ago and its still pretty small maybe 4 inches. But now I've read that you shouldn’t keep them in smaller tanks. <No, large fish and messy eaters, besides the poisonous spines.>  I am planning on upgrading to a larger tank I just don’t know how soon that will happen mostly because of the cost.. so are there any serious risks for the fish?  <Yes, improper growth (stunting) leading to an early demise, along with poor water quality because of it feeding behavior.  Please return this fish and restrain from purchasing a new one until you have appropriate housing for it.>                                                                             
Thanks, Nick
<Chris>

Lionfish stocking   1/12/06
Hi Guys,
<Jim>
I was just wondering how many adult Volitans lionfish I could comfortably house in a 210 gallon tank? I was thinking 3 to 4? or possibly a pair of them plus a dragon moray. Any info would be much appreciated!
                         Jim
<Ultimately, with growth/size, the pair and the eel would be better. Bob Fenner>

Lions In My Tank?  1/2/5/06
I think I already know the answer to this.  I have a 200 gallon tank (68"x26"x26") with a 3" sandbed...  I have the overflow centered and low enough to give me about 2.5" of room at the top to incorporate a Tunze Wavebox.  In short, this gives me about 20" of actual water height within the tank.  I have use about 200lbs of premium Tonga rock... I usually have used Fiji rock which seems heavier for the size...
therefore this Tonga rock really fills up my tank.  I have a minimum of about 4" between my rock and my glass all around... so the rock creates one massive island in the middle.  For the most part, the height of the rock would give about 8 - 14" of swimming room  above this rock island.
The tank will be an aggressive tank featuring a snowflake moray and a lionfish.  I'd like a Volitans Lionfish, they are impressive... but huge full grown.  Even though I have the water volume, I'm thinking I might not have the swimming room that this critter would need.  I'd rather be conservative and not have a Volitans that after two years wouldn't be happy in my tank loaded with rock. I've read on your site that a full grown Volitans would need about 40 gallons just for himself.
<I'd opt for at least 70 gallons.>
In your opinion, from my tank layout... would u agree that perhaps a smaller lion would be more suitable?  Radiata perhaps?
<I'd probably go with the Radiata (10" max in the aquarium) if it were me.
Your tank is large enough for the Volitans, but more tankmates will be on it's menu.>
I guess the benefit of a smaller lionfish would mean that I could go with an assortment of smaller fish ~ implying that a huge Volitans could easily inhale a bigger fish than a dwarf lion?  Would a damsel for instance, be too small for a dwarf lion?
<A mature Radiata isn't going to have any problems wolfing down blue damsels, etc, would have to stay with pygmy angel sized fish.>
So, what's your opinion...  is my tank still suitable for a Volitans?
Or would you share the opinion of looking at a smaller lionfish?  I do have lots of hiding places and two cave like structures...
<Your tank is suitable for the Volitans, so the choice is yours to make.
Personally, if I were to keep lionfish, I'd go with an assortment of dwarfs.
Would make a more striking display, and allow you to keep more fish in the tank thereby increasing the attractiveness of the system.  James (Salty Dog)>
Regards,
Dave Brynlund

Cannot cycle new tank with lionfish; recommend using "fishless" method instead   11/6/06
Hello all,
<Well hello...>
A quick question (this time I promise?).
<OK, no problem...>
I have been curing liverock for two weeks and it was partially cured before.  Once I am getting a zero reading on ammonia I will place into my new 200gallon setup and aquascape.
<Good plan.>
Bob Fenner's book recommends waiting 2-4 weeks before adding
critters, but also mentions that some people use damsels to in the 2-4 initial stage.
<Absolutely true; I personally think that using live fish to cycle a tank is cruel, however, and use only fish food, or a piece of cocktail shrimp.  It achieves the same end result and spares the fish any "unpleasantries"...>
Is it safe to add my Volitans Lionfish during this 2-4 week cycle stage?  Brand new sand, cured rock, water, etc.
<Absolutely not.  The lionfish are too delicate.  Again, though, in my humble opinion, there's no reason to use any live creatures to cycle a tank...do a search on "fishless cycle" on the 'net and you'll find lots of alternative methods that work just as well and don't harm any fish...>
Thanks,
<You're welcome.>
Dave
<Jorie>

Re: Cannot cycle new tank with lionfish; recommend using "fishless" method instead   5/8/06
Thanks for the response.
<You're welcome.>
I thought Lionfish were like the 2nd hardiest fish offered in aquarium trade?
<I've never heard this "opinion"; generally, Volitans lionfish do fine in a stable, well-established tank, but I've never heard them to be particularly hardy with respect to be able to withstand ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes necessary for cycling purposes...>
Anyhow... So I will introduce ONLY cured liverock and will perhaps take some substrate and some of the water from my established fish/invert system to 'seed' my new tank?
<Good plan; will likely speed the cycle a bit.>
Maybe even use some of the liverock in my Fish/Invert sump and use in my new sump for this new system?
<Also good.>
Would you expect that I'd still have ammonia/nitrate spikes in the two to four week period after?
<In a 200 gal. tank, I would expect so, yes...>
Should I be introducing my lionfish then at two weeks?  Four weeks?  Or simply when I haven't detected any signs of ammonia or nitrate?
<I always like to err on the side of caution, since I've done my share of "pushing the envelope", sometimes without good results; I would suggest not introducing any fish before the 2 week minimum period, and personally would side closer to 4 weeks, but in any event, not before the cycle has completed. In other words, not before the 2-4 week period, but possibly longer, depending on the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings in your tank.>
Dave
<Good luck.  In my experience, when cycling with live rock, at least you'll likely have neat "critters" (hitchhikers) to look at for the cycling period, as opposed to freshwater cycling, where you are literally staring at water for a month or so!  Enjoy your tank, Jorie>

Filter dilemma... Lions and canisters, no my!   8/24/06
Hi there! I've been asking lots of questions and every time your answers were more than helpful, thank you so much! I have a filter question this
time... I am planning to set up a tank for a Lionfish (Pterois radiata).
It's a 65 gal,
<Will be too small...>
I already have the tank, the lights, etc. Actually, I only need the filter to start the whole thing. I know that Lions need a damn good
filtration, so I was wondering, what filter should I use? There are so many choices, and not enough info...
<Lots of both available>
I was looking at these two models, but if you have any other suggestions for this kind of setup, it would be more than appreciated... anyway, there are the two choices I have for the moment:
- Pentair Aquatics canister filters (separate units, one mechanical, on
chemical...)
<Nah...>
- Eheim Professionel II (more expensive, but I heard that it's a good
choice...)
<Is better, but not the route I would go either... Canisters aren't generally "appropriate technology" for marine systems...>
I'm quite confused, and I'd really appreciate some help here! Thank you very
much!! BTW, the Radiata will be the only fish in the tank... Merci infiniment!
Ivan
<... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcanistfltfaqs.htm
and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lionsysfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

- Lion Lighting 8/21/06 -
Howdy! <Howdy.> I have poked around on the site and can't seem to find a direct answer to my question.  My current set up: tank is about 30 gal with around 20# of LR and live sand, filter is a Penguin 200 bio-wheel, and lighting is an 18" 15 watt 20,000K light - I'm not familiar with this type of marine lighting (Kelvins and such). I'm looking to keep a single dwarf zebra lionfish (YAY!), but I'm concerned about the lighting-is it too bright? <Could be...> I don't want to blind the poor thing but I also don't want to lose algae. <What algae? Lions don't generally eat it...> Also, should i "stack" the LR to create caves or do they just hide behind them? <Caves and ledges are best for lionfish, yes.> Oh, and would I also need a protein skimmer or will the BioWheel do the trick? <A skimmer would help with this type of fish.> Thanks guys!
<Cheers, J -- >

Lion and Reef…Lion Next to Reef….Who? What? Where? How?  - 04/14/2006
Hi WWM Crew,
<Hello there.>
Thanks for all the past help on all my strange questions in the past.
<No worries and you are welcome.>
Here's another, I guess, somewhat specific question.
<Okay.>
I am in the process of finishing a new SPS tank.
<Congrats.>
It is a 80+ gallon tank custom made, so it has some funky dimensions) with about 40x turnover
<Wonderful flow.>
at least after head loss from plumbing and sump return head loss.  It is also lit by a 250watt HQI metal halide with 2x24watt T5 actinic supplements.  The
sump is pretty big, the baffles are such that it holds 50 gallons of water,
<Great water volume on this system.>
the fuge holds about 35 gallons, and I have a prop tank that's another 30 gallons all on the same system.  It will be a completely bare bottom system,
with some sand in the fuge, and one of those remote deep sand beds (5 gallon home depot bucket with 200gph flow, with 2 inches of water, rest of it is sand),
<Sounds very well planned.>
an ASM G3 skimmer,
<Good Skimmer.>
and some other nifty gadgets that probably doesn't pertain to the upcoming question.
<Okay.>
Is my 80 gallon suitable for an Antennata Lionfish?
<For a lone specimen? Yes For a crowded reef tank with lots of rock work and coral growth? In my opinion, no.>
I'm concerned with the flow being too high, the lighting being too intense, and the tank size not allowing enough space.
<All valid worries.>
  I will have plenty of rock for him to hide in.
If flow and lighting is too much, is it possible to keep it in a smaller tank connected to the same system?  I have a 30 and a 32 gallon tank that I
could hook up just for the lion, though not sure if that's enough swimming room.
<No this animals potential size warrants something much larger.>
  If I could do that, I'd put the optimal lighting and flow tailored to the lionfish's liking.  I know that small tanks are not recommended due
to water pollution, though linked to my entire system, I think the only thing is swimming room.
<Which is the deal breaker here.>
Will a 30gallon be sufficient for swimming room being the only fish and hooked up to a 190 gallon system?
<See above.>
  if not what would be an optimal tank size?
<About 75 gallons for a lone individual.>
Also what is the optimal lighting and flow for a lionfish?
<They are more comfortable in subdued lighting, they will adjust to higher water flow….they do come from the ocean.>
Thank you!  and sorry for the lengthy email =)
<No worries.>
- Art
<Adam J.>

Re: Lion and Reef PART DEUX Re: Antennata Lionfish Swimming Room, Lighting, and Flow recommendations    4/16/06
Hi Adam,
<Hello again Art.>
Thanks for the fast response!
<No prob.>
I have one question about the crowded reef tank.  The tank will be a SPS reef tank, with no critters with claws (I've learned that even though most
are safe, I've had some crazy luck with some rebellious crabs), just snails and a lot of pods.  Do you think that would be too crowded?
<When I say crowded reef tank, I don’t mean that “you” personally will have a crowded reef tank. I say “crowded-reef” in the sense that when you compare a reef tank to a fish only tank, generally speaking reefs appear more crowded due to more rockwork and invertebrate growth. They (again generally speaking) have less real-estate (swimming-room) than a Fish Only tank.>
  The tank will have about 45lbs of rock, and if sand probably just a sprinkling for looks. The SPS will all start from frags with plenty of space around them, and will be far from "cluttered".
<Until they grow up, right?>
There won't be any other fish or inhabitants other than the SPS and the cleanup critters.  I'm guessing you were mainly referring to the fact that there could be so many corals that the actual water real estate would be compromised.
<As far as swimming space for the animal in question, yes.>
If I were to have a fairly sparse tank with only 45lbs of rock and not too crowded of a tank, would that be good?
<Possibly, could make this work, but do keep in mind that lions are generous waste producers.>
I don't want the lion to suffer anymore than he/she is when out of the ocean.  So I'm guessing a 75 gallon space for the lion to swim would be minimum?
<With some room/rockwork for hiding yes….>
Thanks!
<Anytime.>
- Art
<Adam J.>

Lionfish Problems - 3/21/2006
Good day!
<<Hi Josie!>>
Today is day 10 of my Volitans Lionfish eating strike!!! We got him from "a guy" about 2 1/2 months ago.  I have a 50 gallon FO tank with 1 Volitans Lionfish, 1 Yellow Tang, 1 Maroon Clown, 1 Limbaughi Chromis, 2 Turbo Snails, 2 Small Hermit Crabs, 1 Brittle Star, 1 Sandsifting Star, and 1 (illusive) Ghost Crab.
<<Your tank is far too small for all those fish.  The tang and Lion need larger quarters, and the maroon clown will wreak havoc on that tank in no time.>>
The water parameters right now are SG - 1.022, Temp 79 - 80, Ammonia - 0, Nitrite - 0, pH 8.3, Nitrates - 40 (yes, that is high and we are doing approximately 15% water change every other day to bring that down).
<<Likely a cause of the feeding strike.>>
The parameters of the tank prior to the Lionfish going on food strike were the same as they are now except the Nitrates were 0.  The Nitrates have shot up over the last 2 - 3 days and we have gotten them down to 40 with the water changes.
<<Wow, so they were very high.  Get those levels down, and you may see a return in appetite.>>
Anyway, he was on a diet of Freeze Dried Krill and now will not eat it.  We tried raw shrimp soaked in garlic, raw scallops soaked in garlic, raw shrimp no garlic, raw scallops no garlic, and even tried the feeder fish just to trigger a feeding response.  He will hunt it on the feeder stick but will not open his mouth to eat.
<<An all-krill diet is linked to lock-jaw.  Do Google this on WWM.>>
The LFS said to force feed him.  Now, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not too keen on force feeding a fish as I seriously doubt that this will make him WANT to eat.
<<Can help at times actually.  I would look into other methods/solutions first if you are wary.>>
We do have a protein skimmer and have turned it up to try to knock out the Nitrates but it is a slow process.
<<Water changes are what you need to do, along with acquiring a larger tank.>>
I'm at a loss at this point on trying to get the fish to feed!
<<I think the causes are quite clear.>>
He has no external signs of anything wrong.  Normal coloring, normal swimming, he hangs out a lot with his head hanging down and this tail up, but this, from what I have seen, is normal for a Lionfish.
<<Not necessarily.>>
This is my first saltwater tank and have been learning and reading along the way.  The only reason we have the snails, stars, and crabs is as a clean up crew.  We were having an issue with Red Algae and the snails have almost knocked that out entirely.
<<It is best to solve the source of such problems, as opposed to adding a Band-Aid-solution.>>
Do you have any suggestions that I might be able to do to help this poor fish?
<<Larger tank, reduced nitrates, possible iodine supplementation to help with lock-jaw (Google on WWM).>>
I didn't intend on keeping him in the first place, he came with the tank, as we had purchased it from a guy in the local area.  We estimate that the Lionfish is about 3 - 5 years old.  No one would take him so we decided to care for him.
Thanks a million!!!
Josie
<<Glad to help.  Lisa.>>

Packing in Volitans Lions... Systems mainly  1/30/06
Hey guys I was just curious about how many adult Volitans lionfish I can keep comfortably in my 150 gallon tank 48x24x30 high.
<Two... three if this tank were more flat (less tall) and wider>
I have a deluxe super reef devil skimmer powered by a Coralife turbo sea 1100 gph water pump with a
sump. Also a calcium reactor ,UV sterilizer ,about 100 pounds of live rock and a Aquapro dual 250 watt metal halide lighting with blue actinics.  I also
have some large 12 inch squamosa clams
<Likely will not "like" the amount of waste the Lions produce>
which are doing fantastic so I need the lighting I have.
<Most Pteroines do not "like"/tolerate bright/intense light... they are actually easily blinded by such>
Was just also curious if that would be too strong a lighting for the lions.
<Yes, would be>
I've talked to various people with various answers but one guy I talked to said he's had his Volitans lionfish for over ten
years under 400 watt metal halides and never had any problems at all with any type of blindness so not sure what to think. Anyways any advice would be
much appreciated.
                                                                   Jim
<Experiences vary... perhaps these specimens hang out in caves, overhangs by "day". Bob Fenner>

Parapterois heterura  12/20/2005
I'm looking to set up a species tank for the blue fin lionfish <Blackfoot Firefish is the common name.> and was wondering if there was any advice you could dole out. I'm aware of their reputation recently as doing poorly but the general consensus seems to be that this is due to keeping them in warmer reef tanks (feel free to add any others).<The temperature range for this fish is 72-82>  I'd like to set up a 55g with 20g sump/ refugium. 1x 10k t-5 and 2 x actinic t-5 for lighting.  I thought about using a mud (probably miracle mud)/ oolitic sand mix (4"-6") for substrate.  I have a CPR dual BakPak that I was using on my 100g reef.  Not sure of any other filtration, never seemed necessary on previous tanks.  No idea on other decor (LR/ sea grass/ etc.) chiller soon but not quite needed for another couple months.
<You should be fine with the sump/miracle mud and the BakPak.>
I'd appreciate any advice as your site has been very helpful so many times before.  <The fish you are interested in keeping should be no different than other lionfish.  The Blackfoot Firefish is rarely seen in the trade and you may have difficulty finding one. Read here on the lionfish species.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com//lions&rels2.htm  James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you <You're welcome.  Shad, in future queries please do a spelling/grammar check before sending.  It saves us much time if we don't have to edit these for posting.  Thank you.
Shad

Loin Fishes (Heeee!>)
Hi my Name is Kobus i am Living On The South  Coast Of South Africa i
started a fish marine fish tank of 160 cm x 60 cm  x 60 cm
I have 4 Pterois volitans Babies.
<Neat>
is the size of the tank adequate
<For a short while... a few to several months if you feed them (little) carefully>
Feeding my fish if i feed them fish caught in a lagoon is that going to be a problem with their diet referring to fatty acids in fresh water bait. Does temperature play a role with these fishes  
<Does indeed (as with all life)... Steadiness is important... especially with small volume tanks... Too high/low temperatures can be trouble as well. Bob Fenner>

Pale Lionfish, declining water quality
Hello WWM crew, I have a 10 in. black volitans lionfish in my 180g fish only tank. It contains a 4in maroon clownfish, 5in magnificent Foxface, and a 6in Pinktail trigger. I have noticed lately that my "black lion fish" is not black anymore. He is much paler then when I bought him about 6 months ago.
<Good observation... does "just happen"...>
He is starting to look like a regular volitans lionfish.
<You likely know... these are the same species>
He also has been in the front corner of the tank looking up at the surface. Everything has been good lately in the tank except that it is a little cloudy because of the trigger digging up the sand. All the parameters are good except I saw a little rise in nitrite lately which I think is from my dying hair algae problem and my protein skimmer which has been non functioning lately. Please tell me what is wrong with my lionfish.
Thank You Very Much
Louis
<The nitrite is BIG trouble... and the lion the most sensitive to related aspects that this emergence indicates... Fix your water quality and your lion should re-darken. Bob Fenner> 

Trigon 190
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005
Hi guys,
I hope you can help. I have a Trigon 190 liter tank that I would like to make into a really nice display fish only tank with only one or two specimens in it. I have been reading the other articles and feel a little inadequate!  I am looking to keep a Pterois volitans (Red Lionfish). The shops all say fine, but the web advice varies. Am I pushing my luck in terms of fish to tank size? Some stores have even said a pride of up to 3 would be ok!!! 
<They must have had three to sell. No, not in a 50 gallon tank. This particular lion grows quite large and they do grow fast.. One is the limit along with the fact that they are high waste producers.>
Also, I have been recommended a Moray as a good tank mate. 
<Yes, it would be, but a moray and a lion in a 50 gallon is a little too much.> 
I thought that there may be something that would be a suitable size? <Any fish that would be suitable to live with the lion would also be a high waste producer. Small fish will just become supper.>
The Trigon is a 190 L tank, and I have a few years experience of Reef Tank maintenance at 250 L. Apart from Calcium levels (I hate the damn stuff) the water quality is superb.   Ben 
<If you go with the lion, keep him alone in that 50. You will have a healthier tank in the long run. James (Salty Dog)>

Elevated nitrogenous levels/bloated lion/damsel missing
Hello, <Hi Brian, MacL here with you tonight.>
this morning I woke up, and noticed some trouble in one of my tanks...I have a 4" Volitans Lion that I have had for about three weeks now. The tank he is in has been running for about a month and a half now. As of this morning, the parameters are as follows
pH - 8.2
Nitrite - .25
Nitrate - 10
Ammonia - .25
SG - 1.023
what I have observed this morning is that my lion is breathing very heavy, and just resting on the bottom. When he breathes, his mouth is opening almost
half way each time, and he doesn't seem to want to eat. The other peculiar thing is that one of the damsels in there to start the tank has gone missing, however, the lion doesn't appear to be overly fat right now, and the yellow tail damsel was relatively
decent size. Of course I cant say for sure that the lion didn't eat him...any advice would be appreciated <Its very possible that he ate the damsel. That's not uncommon at all. BUT you MUST MUST MUST do some water changes and get those levels down to zero. Especially the ammonia levels.  It sounds to me like your tank is in the middle of its original cycle and the lionfish do not do well with this at all. While I hate to disturb the cycle with a water change you will loose that lionfish if you don't get the levels back to zero. Good luck and let me know how he does. MacL>
-Bryan

Lionfish in a 40 gal
hello
I was wondering if you can mix the lionfish:
1. very small volitans lionfish
2. small fuzzy dwarf lionfish
3. dwarf zebra lionfish
all together in a 40 gallon for about a year until I decide to transfer them
to my 180. << No.  I wouldn't put more than one lion in a 40 gal.  I would wait until after your 180 is up and running for a while then add them.  Otherwise I think you are just making a mistake and setting yourself up for failure. >>
regards
    chase
<<  Blundell  >>

Lionfish Lighting
I want to run 2-72" VHO bulbs on my 180 gallon FOWLR Lionfish tank. Is there
ANY chance that this lighting will be too intense for my Lionfishes eyes?
Total watts will be 320. Thanks
>>>Hey Brett,
I think you'll be fine, that's not much considering it's VHO. I don't know how much stock I put in this whole business about bright lights burning lionfish retinas anyway.
Regards
Jim<<<

Lionfish and lighting
Firstly thanks for all your help so far. My lion is happy and healthy and ruling his tank. <Great to hear.>I have read a lot on this and other forums re lion blindness and there seems to be some disagreement re the cause (light intensity v nutrition). <Don't forget some parasitic and bacterial problems as well.>
The reason for my question is I would like to add a clam to my tank. It is a 5x2x2 and currently has two 150W metal halides positioned on the two "ends" of the tank.  This creates a shadow in the center of my tank. I plan on positioning the 250W halide here. However my lion does not hang here .. he tends to stay next to my weir which is under one of the 150w halides. Is this level of lighting a concern? <I think the important thing is to have places where the lion fish can get out of the intense lighting. Overhangs etc where he can retreat if needed.>  I don't wish to do anything to hurt him/her. It is by far the best fish in my tank and I would rather do without the clam than risk any harm on him/her. btw when are the horns supposed to fall off because he/she is 7 inches at least and still has them.  <I've seen them over 12 inches with horns.  Good luck Grant, MacL>
Grant

Lighting and Lionfish
<Hi! MikeD here>
Hello, I just purchased a 260 watt PC light for my 75 Gal. and I have a
Volitans lion. I have heard of blindness issues with lions. Would 260
watts be too much for him?<That's not as simple a question as you might believe, with factors such as shaded areas where he's not in direct light having much to do with it, as well as duration of your light cycle, etc. While it's not been definitely established that over bright lighting can cause blindness, it's been my experience that it certainly seems to do so and at the very least causes undue stress on them.  While the minimum tank size for a P. Volitans is often given as a 55 gal. tank, the rapid growth rate and large adult size (up to 15") makes it obvious that larger is beneficial as well, with your 75 gal. the minimum size in my own opinion.>, and many Thanks for your help, Jonathan

Puffer companion & Lionfish lighting
What would be a good tankmate(s) for a grown Porc. <Exactly how big is your puffer?> Puffer residing in a 180 gallon (72" x 24" x 24") as much as I love him, and know that he's enough fish for a 180, I'd really like to have more than 1 fish in the tank. Would a Picasso Trigger and or Yellow Tang be out of the question? <The big thing is getting them of a comparable size so they could compete for food and not be considered food.>  I am also very concerned about lighting on my 180 gallon Lionfish only FOWLR tank. I need to know if 320 watts of VHO lighting in a 180 will damage my Lions eyes? should I stick with subdued standard fluorescent lighting instead? <You can have strong lighting IF you provide places the lion can get out of the light, caves and overhangs seem to work best for that purpose.> Both my 180's run 55 gallon sumps with a ASM G-3 skimmers and live rock rubble as the only filtration. Thanks again!!! <Good luck, MacL>

Lionfish stocking in a 180 gal
OK, I have a 180 gallon AGA with 2 Megaflows, along with a 55 gallon sump with an ASM G-3 skimmer and around 100 pounds of live rock in the main tank and some rubble live rock in the sump. I have a small Russell's Lion, a small Volitans Lion, a small Radiata Lion and a small Porc. Puffer. When these fish grow up, am I going to need a bigger tank? << Well it can't hurt. But I'll say no, that is okay. That is a lot of lions, most people would keep one in there. >> I am also wondering if it is safe for me to drink water from my RO/DI unit? I read on the net somewhere that it can cause serious health problems over time? << It would be safer than any other water I can think of. Although expensive. I don't know why you would want to drink water that is costing you money. >>
<< Blundell >> 

Lighting for a 180 FOWLR
If I run 2 48" T-12's (one being actinic and the other white, 80 watts total) in the rear of my 180 FOWLR tank over a pile of live rock, will that allow coralline algae to grow without blinding my Lionfish? << Yes, but that isn't much light. >> or do I need to double that? << I would >> I just don't want blind lionfish!!! << Don't worry you could have a ton more light on there and be fine. Blundell >>