Marine Question, Naso death...   7/22/07
Further to this, I wanted to add the Naso turned totally black and hid before he died, very strange looking!
<Mmm, just looking at the info. below... a seventy gallon is too small for a Tang of this genus (as posted on WWM), and the Boxfish (as you seem to state) is mis-placed here...>
And I plan to setup a QT this weekend. I have a 10 gallon that till be perfect. I did not know about this till I read your site. Great idea!
<Mmm... I do wish we had more input to help you before this incident. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang - all but gone   6/5/07
I tried to register on your website, but there seems to be a problem with the site. Hopefully you can give me some much needed advice to save my tang!
<The Forum, WetWebFotos is controlled by Zo... who is obviously elsewhere>
State of the tank: 150gl tank, all levels are spot on and the tank is lightly loaded as we're growing it slowly. Currently we only have the 1 Naso (4"- that's in big trouble), 1 Hippo (4"), 1 banana wrasse & 1 Christmas wrasse (both about 4"), 2- 3striped, 2 - yellow tail, 1 - solid blue all between 1 - 2" (these are what's left of the 9 starter fish from a little of a year ago). All of these fish have been cohabitating nicely for over a year, with the exception of the Hippo which we just added within the last month.
I noticed approximate 1 week ago that the yellow portion on the back of the Naso's tail fin was starting to have some discoloration (brown areas). Yesterday, I notice that the yellow portion of the forehead was also getting some very small brown dots (not bumps - just color change). This morning I found him all but dead on the bottom of the tank (already in the "C" form, nose & tail touching bottom with body arched).
<Very bad...>
I instantly moved him into QT, added stress coat and Maracyn Plus Anti bacteria. The QT was only set up this morning and I used the water from the main tank so the water temp, salinity, etc. was the same.
The only change (since adding the Hippo), is that we have increased the frequency of feeding seaweed clips. I ran out of the green so he's been taking in more purple this past week. He was eating well up until 2 days ago when I noticed he wasn't eating up the Mysis as he typically does. He's barely hanging on, and I appreciate any assistance you can offer.
Warm aloha and Mahalo nui loa,
(thank you very much)
Sandy Tichy
<How long have you had this Naso lituratus? It may be that it "came with" an internal complaint... Otherwise, there may be a nutritional (deficiency) issue here... there are some other much more minor possibilities... You have read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso_lituratus.htm
and the linked files above? Bob Fenner>

Ich help...maybe... Naso... hlth...   2/28/07
Hello All,
<Kesha>
I just wanted to let you know that your site is the most informative site that I have ever come across and I've been in the hobby since 2001.
<Ahh!>
I just have a few questions that I cannot get answered anywhere else.
I have been running this tank since August 2005.  
It is a 75g all glass aquarium with 260w pc lighting and a moonlight
120lbs of LR,
60lbs of LS.
ProClear wet/dry filter system with 3 add'l power heads for water movement.
4 domino damsels
<Yikes! Biters!>
3 striped damsels
3 clownfish (2 false & 1 pink skunk)
1 tang
2 Hawaiian feather dusters
4 huge turbo snails & quite a few hermit crabs
Water Parameters before putting Tang & feather duster in tank
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Ph 8.2
Done a 30% water change on Monday with distilled water and used 6 gallons of premixed seawater from LFS.
I recently bought a Naso Tang
<Mmm... needs more room than this>
& feather duster about 4 days ago and since then the ammonia is at 0.25ppm & nitrate is at 20ppm.  Ph is still the same as well as nitrite.
2 days after getting it, a white spot appeared on the fin near the end of it, has not been rubbing up against any of the rocks and no other spots has appeared.  Was a bit worried about his color because it looks as if you can see through his body. Went to LFS and they said its probably cauliflower and antibiotics will help it! (WHAT???)
<... I don't know what they're referring to either here... A viral issue like Lymphocystis... as "Cauliflower?"... Antibiotics won't cure this... and I do NOT encourage you to put them in your main display at any length>
I researched it and cannot find anything on it.
<Mmm... well... might be "just a dot"... from stress, getting whacked by a net... If only one, discrete... no other indications... I would not panic>
As for the color I was told to get a ground probe, because the electrical currents running through the tank was causing this to happen.
<... no... dismal>
None of the other fish in the aquarium seem to have anything wrong with them and just wondered if this is the start of a disease problem?  
<Not likely... however... You are playing a sort of Russian Roulette by not adhering to some sort of quarantine... at least dip/bath procedure...>
Please HELP.
Also, do tangs normally try to eat the feather dusters?
<Some can, do, yes>
My tang is going to town on the ends of the dusters.
Thanks so much,
Kesha
<... Quarantine... Observation for now... a much larger... at least six foot long systems... for the genus Naso... Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang.. Acclimation.. Environment 2/27/07
Hope you can provide some direction.
<Should be no problem.>
This is my second attempt at acclimating a Naso.  First Naso lasted 5 days (ate Mysis shrimp for 1st 3 days then ate nothing).  I prepared to try again.  I am waiting to see if the Naso at my LFS will take flake food (something I did not do the first time around).
<Flake food alone is not going to do it.>
Do you know of any "must-do's"  that I should be concerned with to make sure the acclimation process goes smoothly.  Specifically around best types of "veggie" foods to start the new Naso off with.  I have a 55 gal tank with good water quality with one exception.
<Off to a bad start with a 55.  Tangs are grazers and constantly swim in search of food.  Your tank is much too small for keeping such in a healthy state.>
I recently had a nitrate spike (up to 20 PPM) potentially due to over use of phytoplankton.
I perform regular (weekly) water changes and have been doing 2 water changes (5 gal each) twice a week since discovering the elevated nitrates.  At what level of nitrates should I be concerned with when acclimated a new fish like a Naso Tang.  In other words is 20 PPM too much for acclimation?
<Tangs enjoy pristine water quality, so, the lower the nitrate level, the better.
Do read here and related links for the info you seek.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimat.htm>
Thanks for the advice.
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)
GJB

Anemone sting on Blonde Naso? Velvet? Fungus? - Urgent 12/5/06
Dear Bob and Friends,
<Oh, yes>
I have a question about my 7" Blonde Naso Tang. I noticed a patch of white/grey discoloration and fuzziness with at least one tiny "fuzz ball" attached, right next to the spines on his right side. The patch is about a square inch in size. I would've sent a picture but he moves to quickly to get a good shot. He's had a very slight cloudiness on his right eye for several weeks. He had a rough time getting from the ocean to my tank,
<Common with this genus of fast-moving, some almost-pelagic fishes>
a case of ich accompanied by a hunger strike that lasted almost 3 weeks (the ich lasted only one week). He's been eating ferociously ever since he got healthy (about 3 weeks ago) but was left with what I'd describe as scars or small (about an 1/8th of an inch) lighter patches on his skin. Like I said he's eating like crazy, has regained all the wait he lost, seems "happy" regardless of the new patch. No scratching, no heavy breathing, pretty much the king of the tank.
<A good position>
I also noticed my small (about 2 inches) Bubble Tip Anemone sitting about a foot and a half from where he's been happily living for 2 months. He was deflated and did not look good. Through research on your sight I've come to the hopeful conclusion that my Naso may have accidentally whipped the Anemone with his tale
<tail>
, causing the Anemone to become dislodged and leaving a fuzzy patch on his skin. Can an Anemone do this?
<Mmm, yes>
I hope this is what happened because I had a case of Velvet wipe out my entire tank 6 months ago resulting in a total overhaul and rebuild (added a refugium with green Caulerpa, increased flow 3 fold, added a chiller and UV sterilizer). This doesn't look like Velvet but I could easily be wrong, we'll see if it's grown in size tomorrow. Other possibilities are bacterial or fungal infection.  
<I do doubt that this is Velvet/Amyloodinium... if so, most likely all your fishes would be lanquishing or dead at this point>
Regardless, I'm not sure what to do. Medicating him would mean medicating the entire tank, live rock, live sand, cleaner shrimp, hermit crabs, snails, and 8 other fishes. There's no way I'm getting him out without pulling out 200 pounds of rock (that took me 8 hours to set up..).
<Mmm... not necessarily... the type/kind of "medicating" I would do is through this and the other fish's foods... soaking and/or coating them in mainly a vitamin supplement product at this point... Very likely (along with good husbandry period) this will "do it"... the observed markings could in all likelihood be resultant from stress, troubles from three weeks plus back...>
I did add a large Maroon Clown 4 days ago with no quarantine (my bad). I know I shouldn't assume any fish is healthy but he's been in my LFS's Coral system for at least 3  months. I'd been trying to get them to catch him for a month and a half and they finally succeeded (don't ever let a fish store tell you a fish isn't for sale! hehe). Well he looked healthy then, and looks healthy now, He's the only addition I've had for the last few weeks.
I think my water quality is good. I've been doing 10% weekly water changes with R/O water, specific gravity is 1.019,
<This needs to be higher... esp. for the anemone's sake... 1.025... Raise the spg slowly>
ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, nitrate 5-10 ppm, PH 8.3, temperature never goes beyond 77-79 degrees. Tons of purple coralline algae growing.
I feed a combo of Angel formula, Mysis shrimp, Brine shrimp, squid, chopped krill, Spirulina flakes, brown and green seaweed on clips.
Tank is six feet long,
<A good absolute minimum for a Naso sp.>
135 gallons (I know its a bit small for this fish but I aquascaped the rock to create a lot of open space and plan on upgrading to a 300 gallon tank in a year or two), sump and refugium are each 30 gallons. All other fish look and are acting healthy and normal.  
So what should I do? 20% Water change and wait it out? Anything I can do? I'll try to take a picture if it will help, although I'm not sure how it'll come out.  
<The supplementation of foods mentioned is what/all I would do>
On a side note, I can't seem to control the brown algae growing on the fine grain 4" deep sand bed. I stir it up and it grows back within 2 hours. I have about 450 watts of daylight and actinic light bulbs on for 6 hours a day. Any suggestions?
<Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brownalgcontfaqs.htm
and the linked files above...>
I want to thank you so much for your help. I read through your web site constantly and have found it to be EXTREMELY helpful. I must spend an hour a day on your site. I am very grateful for the wealth of information you provide. I'd love to meet you guys out in Hawaii one of these days. Thanks again for your help!
Chad D.
<Am out on the Big Island esp. ever few to handful of months... w/ some of the WWM Crew generally. BobF>

Problems with Naso tang  10/26/06
Hi, Good afternoon everyone! In my tank with a flame Angel, a Yellow Tang, a Naso tang, two domino damsels,
<Can be quite territorial to downright mean>
two Bubbletip anemones,
<Not usually compatible unless clones or in very large systems>
a finger leather coral...up to yesterday night I had a clarkii clown in it but took it out because he was chasing the flame angel and I didn't want to lose my flame angel (clarkii clown is in another tank). This process of taking him out was very difficult (he was very fast swimming and hiding in all the rocks) therefore  it took us 30 minutes to get him out... we also rearranged the rocks after that. We have a protein skimmer and a UV sterilizer and a powerfilter and we constantly check the water and its always perfect. We ended up going to bed at about 4:30 am and it was perfect all the fishes were doing fine, even the clarkii in the other tank. When I woke up this morning everyone was fine but I couldn't seem to find my Naso tang... when I finally did he was in a corner in a posing position hardly moving its fins, he is usually a light gray but today he was very dark gray almost black.. he had white spots all over his body (he have had this before usually when he gets scared)
<Yes... is likely still upset re the commotion yesterday, early morning>
but the neon blue in his eyelids, top of his top fin and bottom one disappeared like faded into white and almost all the other color faded... the only remaining color is the dark gray of his body and the yellow that on top of his eyes... Could all this be stress or he might have gotten some kind of parasite?
<Just the former>
All the other fishes are doing fine if  not better than yesterday but he is not doing well... he is my favorite fish and I am very worried... please help me! I really don't know what to do.. I also have had him for like two months and has always done great.. he was very healthy , ate everything, very playful and peaceful... thanks you!
Christina Ruales
<Mmm, Naso species need systems of at least six feet in length... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/nasosysfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

A Tale of Two Dead Naso Tangs - 09/17/06
Hello,
<<Good Morning>>
I am writing you and talking to anyone else I could think off.
<<Wise not to limit yourself to a single source of information/advice/opinion>>
This past week I lost a pair of Naso tangs.
<<Sorry to hear...>>
I am devastated over this for a number of reasons, but mostly because I can't find an answer to why they died.  Before I ask you to give some thoughts on what you think might of happened let me give you as many details and variables I can.
<<Thank you…always helpful>>
The tank is a 350 gallon fish/reef tank.  I keep a variety of angels and tangs, clowns and damsels.  There are also inverts like shrimp, snails and crabs.  There are not a lot of corals at this time but the idea for the tank is to keep a number of corals with larger variety of fish not usually kept in a reef.
<<I see...and researching re to assure/maintain compatibility I'll assume...>>
There are a few LPS and SPS corals along with a few soft leathers.
<<Mmm...with "variety of angels"?>>
I do have to be very careful in what corals I choose because of the types of fish.
<<Ah yes!>>
The larger of the tangs was a Hawaiian Naso the other was a smaller Red Sea blonde.
<<Hmm...ever considered a "biotope" display?>>
I know typically these species are not kept together but they have done very well often swimming side by side and staying together at night.  The tank has ample swimming room and the aquascaping is such it gives the fish room to swim in a big circle.
<<Excellent>>
The tank has been established for 4 years.  Only up until last year I started to get into corals having spent the money to have a dedicated electrical circuit for the lights and pumps.
<<Reef setups are indeed "power hungry">>
Prior, the power options didn't allow me to have the right lighting.  I now run 3 10K 250watt HQI de's with PC actinics.  The tank gets a weekly water change from RO/DI water and top-off is from the same unit.  I dose manually calcium and dKH supplement as needed, parameters are checked weekly.
<<Very good>>
The only issue I have which is not serious is slightly elevated nitrates.
<<...!  I don't know your definition of "slightly", but even so, chronically elevated nitrate can/will have effect on your livestock (and what about ammonia/nitrite?...these were/are checked as well?).  This may be a clue to the two Naso tang's demise>>
I use a refugium with grape <Caulerpa> and Chaetomorpha macro algae.
<<Mmm, another issue (clue?) here in my opinion.  Grape Caulerpa is very noxious, even toxic to fish (many herbivorous fishes won't eat it for this reason).  Combining it with Chaetomorpha in a refugium means the alga are constantly waging war (alga compete just as corals do for space on the reef), releasing chemicals/toxins to inhibit and/or kill each other.  Such constant and powerful chemical warfare (Alga rates at the top of the list with some of the nastiest corals for aggression/noxiousness) can't be "good" for a system.  Not to mention the loss of usefulness/processes for having the algae in the refugium in the first place due to the "energy" expended on warfare>>
The Chaeto is fed to the tank where the angels and tangs feast.
<<Hmm...wonder the possibility of the Chaetomorpha being "tainted" from close exposure/battle with the grape Caulerpa...>>
The nitrate levels are elevated, but don't cause any issues with nuisance algae, the Acropora and Montipora orange cup coral are growing and doing well so I use that as a measure since the nitrates don't seem to cause any other problem.
<<I agree it would seem the corals you mention would show deleterious affects from elevated nitrate before the fish would...but I'm still very curious as to your actual nitrate reading(s)>>
I do understand the bio load may be a little high causing the elevated nitrates, however I go to great lengths to make sure the water quality and environment stay optimal.  Of course the tank has a large skimmer on it which is cleaned 1-2 times per week.
Ok, with that overview here is what happened over the last few weeks.  About three weeks ago I noticed the RO unit was not producing any RO for the top-off.
<<Raw RO water for top-off?  Not recommended...>>
The unit being in place a little over 6 months I thought it might just need to be cleaned and didn't need new filters or membrane replacement.
<<Not likely, no..."should" get a couple to several years out of the membrane, even with this size tank...life of the filter cartridges will depend mainly on your source water/how often they are rinsed clean>>
The water source is well water.  After rinsing the filters in tap water and putting the unit back together it did start to produce some RO however the TDS was > then 0 and could not produce enough for a water change.
<<Again... I need specific measurements to really be of much help>>
At this point I called the company to discuss my options.
<<A good move>>
They agreed that the membrane should not have to be replaced but agreed to send me a filter kit and new membrane anyway.  The unit is a 100gpd.
<<As is mine...>>
I skipped my weekly water change that week waiting for the filters.
<<Um...not seasoning/maturing/buffering your water before "and" after mixing the salt?>>
I received the filters and they forgot to ship the membrane.
<<Mmm...>>
I waited until that weekend to install the filters.  After the filters were installed, the unit still didn't make RO for my water change.
<<Strange...perhaps you should remove/gently rinse the membrane...install a "flush" kit>>
Bottom line, by the time I got RO back online it was almost 3 weeks without a water change.
<<Shouldn't have been a problem>>
I didn't think this was that critical as I checked params and everything seemed to be ok.
<<Would agree>>
I started to cut back on feeding slightly which is usually done twice a day, every other day.
<<I don't agree with this, fish should be fed daily...preferably multiple small feedings.  If feeding daily causes secondary issues with your tank then reevaluate your maintenance/husbandry practices/stocking levels...but don't jeopardize the fishes long-term health by "cutting back" on proper and adequate nutrition>>
I target feed the fish to make sure everybody gets enough without over feeding the tank.  They get mostly pellets soaked with Vita-Chem.
<<A good product...and New Life Spectrum pellets I hope!>>
That is supplemented with frozen Mysis and the macro algae.
<<Ah good, variety is key...and the more the better>>
During this 3 week period, I added 2 fish to the tank one of the fish was a replacement for a small saddle back puffer that jumped out the tank some time ago,
<<Jumped!...?  Was this fish stressed/harassed by other fish?  Perhaps another clue here as well.  Could be the puffer was stressed to the point of releasing toxins (jumped to escape its own poison?) and the tangs are merely victims of the long-term affect...and hopefully the "only" victims>>
and the other was a mandarin dragonet.  This is my first time keeping a mandarin but given the size of the tank and amount of pods I see I thought I would try to
keep one.
<<Sounds reasonable to me as well considering the "mature" nature of this tank>>
During this time I also took a handful of the spaghetti algae about baseball size and tossed it in the main tank during the lower feeding period.  Also something I have done many times before.  Now the blur of events I have been going over and over in my mind trying to figure out what happened.  I can't say exactly when during this period but, I did notice the larger Naso hiding a little bit.  He was still feeding and there were no other signs of problems.  I kept an eye on him and noticed during the last week that he had seemed to have a sunken stomach, stopped feeding and was staying at the top of the tank in a vertical position.  Shortly after the larger Naso started to exhibit this behavior I noticed the smaller Naso also with a sunken stomach.
<<Were these fish treated with a copper-based medication at any point prior to this?  Tangs treated in this manner will sometimes suffer from loss of digestive microbes in their gut, preventing them from digesting food/assimilating nutrients.  Another thought is the behavior of these two fish is similar to those afflicted with internal parasites, though many times such afflicted fish show absolutely "no interest" in food>>
I began to feed the tank everyday in the morning and later in the day, both tangs showed interest and slightly picked but were not near their normally aggressive feeding behavior.  Their breathing also seemed slightly labored.  The large Naso was the first to
die, the smaller died yesterday.  Neither fish showed any signs of marks, spots, no physical changes outside of the sunken stomachs.  Before disposing of the smaller tang I lifted the gill flap and used a bright light to examine the gill.  The gill was bright red and showed nothing abnormal.  Both fish had labored breathing towards the end but again didn't have any other visual indications.
<<May have been secondary to the stress of/weakening by  malnutrition>>
No other fish in the tank currently show any signs of abnormal behavior and continue to feed normally.  I have done 2 water changes last week once the RO produced enough water hoping to save a least one of the tangs.
<<Not likely the issue...and possibly an additional stressor (bouncing water parameters), especially if the new salt mix is not allowed to mature/complete its chemical processes before adding to the tank>>
The smaller did appear to be swimming around better the day before but refused to eat.
<<Never good>>
As of now I am suspecting the following; The RO unit; is it possible the filters contaminated the water some how, either the exhausted filters or the new filters?
<<I'm doubtful of this>>
Did adding the puffer or mandarin bring something in the tank?
<<More of a possibility, yes>>
BTW all my fish come from 2 places that I trust and know.  I never have any problems with their fish or corals.
<<Fortunate>>
Did the puffer release toxins in the water?
<<Possibly>>
The previous saddle back was there for a year and never had any issues.  Is it possible that something was in the macro algae the tangs ate?
<<Another possibility I think, yes>>
Again, the Nasos eat this algae all the time and can eat a baseball size amount in a day.
<<Possibly a matter of toxic accumulation>>
Lastly, I dose the tank weekly with only Kent dKH supplement.  The product is added to my sump which is connected to the refugium.
<<If tested/added as needed this should not be a problem>>
I was thinking maybe the macro algae could have contained concentrated levels of this?
<<I don't think so>>
Other fish ate the algae, but mostly the Nasos.
<<Could be telling>>
Lastly, the tank has Euro-bracing and is open.  The stand is over 4 feet high, the tank total height is around 7-8 feet.
<<Cool>>
This was done because of the kids and placement of the tank.  It is of perfect viewing in a standing position.
<<Indeed>>
I thought I'd mention this in the event something got into the tank that's unknown?
<<Anyone been "cleaning" around the tank?>>
I do find bugs every now and again in the sump that must be attracted to the lights.
<<Yes>>
The only other thing that I thought of was this past weekend my wife had some people over to clean the house.  I was not around but always give my wife strict instructions that the cleaners stay away from the tank.  They were new people, so I don't know if something was introduce through their cleaning?
<<Weren't the tangs displaying symptoms before this?>>
Sorry for the long email,
<<No worries my friend, I appreciate the detailed explanation (hmm...wonder if I can make an article out of this some how?)>> <Likely so. RMF>
but I am at my wits end on this and can't begin to explain how I feel.  I have been in the hobby a very long time and have never seen anything like this before.  Please help...
<<Well Patrick, I have been in the hobby more than 30 years myself, and "have" seen this before.  Unfortunately, knowing the exact cause is usually very difficult without a necropsy of the fish.  I do have some thoughts/theories as I've stated>>
Thanks and regards,
Patrick Mundt
<<My pleasure to assist.  Do give thought to separating/choosing a single macro-algae (my vote goes to the Chaetomorpha) for the refugium...and do take a look on our site re using RO water for top-off as well as making/mixing with salt for water changes.  Cheers, Eric Russell>>

Re: A Tale of Two Dead Naso Tangs – 09/18/06
Eric,
<<Patrick>>
Thanks for the response.
<<Quite welcome>>
You do however raise more questions, and also cause me to ask you to further explain some of your answers :  )
<<Certainly>>
To address some of your concerns, the RO water is made with salt a day before the water change.  Nothing is added to the water outside of Tropic Marin Salt.
<<An excellent salt (would use it myself were it not so expensive), but, raw/newly mixed saltwater is very irritating to your livestock...I recommend you make it up far enough in advance to give it a few days to a week to “mature”>>
The nitrate levels are not 0 but range between 10 - 30 ppm.
<<Too high for the fishes (should be less than 20), and WAY too high for the corals (should be less than 5)>>
This is tested using only Salifert test kits.
<<A good line of test kits>>
I put the grape Caulerpa in the fuge about 2-3 months ago.  Both types of macro algae have grown much better since adding the grape?  Don't know why.
<<Hmm...likely coincidence...feeding off the source of your high nitrates>>
I only feed the fish the Chaeto.  I do remember having to remove to grape that was tangled with the Chaeto before feeding that day.  The first puffer I had was a great tank mate, very interesting and didn't bother anything.  Other fish left him alone he never appeared stressed never saw anyone bothering him.  In regards to his jumping out of the tank, I have moon lights on the tank as well, and it did appear odd to me to wake up for work and find him on the floor.
<<Indeed...not a fish that comes to mind when you think “jumper”>>
I thought the combination of lights and perhaps him going after something to eat caused his death.
<<Don’t know...but seems unlikely to me>>
Usually the puffer finds a perch and sets up for the night.  To the medicating the tank;  Last year after being begged by a fellow aquarist I agreed to take a powder blue tang from him that was harassing his fish.  Big mistake!
<<Indeed...a difficult/problematic species...probably best left in the ocean>>
The fish came with a gift and before it was over wiped out half my tank.
<<No quarantine mate?>>
As I mentioned before I have 2 very reliable LFS, I have not used a second tank in years.
<<A ticking time bomb...>>
Anyway, the Odin. or other parasite moved very fast and as a desperate act I medicated the tank with Malachite Green (I'm sure this is not spelled right <<corrected>>).
<<Yeeikes!  Dangerous stuff...very toxic (must be measured very carefully)...tends to kill the “good guys”>>
Anyway, one of my LFS sources assured me they have medicated their show reef tank with this stuff with great success.
<<(sigh)>>
So to answer your question, yes the tank was medicated but this was a long time ago and the tangs in the tank died from the parasite, the medication did get rid of the parasite and didn't kill any of the corals.  The feeding of every other day was suggested to me, all the fish in the tank seem a litter over weight, (I think), even the 2 Nasos were very thick and clean.  I do think they should eat every day, but I think they have gotten used to this.
<< <grin> Would “you” get used to eating every other day?>>
I have had a small passer that has grown into an adult with great adult colors and has been with me since I started this tank. So what do you think the downside of this may be?
<<Can only wonder how much “better” the fishes would be with daily nutrition...>>
Next, having read through your site, I must have missed the RO part, why not use RO for top off?
<<Raw RO water lacks any buffers/earth elements...these are pulled/drawn from the tank water to reach equilibrium each time raw RO is added, creating instability/ a seesaw effect on your water chemistry>>
I figured the weekly water changes would replace anything the RO is missing for top off no?
<<Likely it does...but buffering the top-off water to reduce fluctuations in water chemistry is a better solution and will reduce the associated stress on your livestock>>
TDS of the RO was approx > then 150.
<<A properly functioning RO membrane should give you a reduction by a factor of 10 over the reading from your tap>>
Based on what you have said, I think I will remove the grape macro algae.
<<Super!>>
After this email, I think I am leaning more towards the algae causing the problems as I know tangs more then other fish have to be handled with care in regard to diet.
<<Important to al fishes...the more varied the better>>
Please let me know what you suggest for the water change water.
<<I think I have...but if not clear, just give a holler...>>
I am always looking to hear other experienced advice...
<<As am I my friend>>  
Thanks, Patrick...
<<Be chatting my friend, Eric Russell>>

Re-2: A Tale of Two Dead Naso Tangs   9/19/06
Hello Eric,
<<Hi Patrick>>
I searched your site and was unable to find articles on RO top off pro/cons but going through some other users’ questions have a basic understanding of the concern of not using raw RO.
<<Ah good...and maybe time for me to stop procrastinating and "put pen to paper" re.  And here are some articles worthy of your perusal:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water.htm ...
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm ... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_2/cav2i4/RO_systems/reverse_osmosis.htm ... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/watchgantart.htm ... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/marineMaint.htm>>
I am without question going to change my procedures on the water change water, actually I understand now why I have to keep adding alk buffer as much as I do.
<<Indeed!  Considering the volume of the tank, your water change routine, and the fact you have but a few corals at present, regular supplementation of earth elements should not be required>>
Some new challenges are with the top-off water.
<<...?>>
I have serious space issues and need to find more information on what other people are doing to pre-treat their RO top-off water.
<<Should be mentioned in one or two of the articles I've provided.  But is a simple matter of utilizing a suitable storage container (plastic trash cans are common) to hold the RO water, adding aeration/water movement for 24 hrs to blow-off CO2, then adding buffer to raise pH and alkalinity.  I like to use a 2 to 1 mixture of baking soda and Seachem's Reef Buffer...you can use baking soda alone but you won't get much of a pH rise without "baking it" first (spread on a baking sheet and bake at 300 degrees for 1 hour) to drive out the CO2 used in its manufacture>> <Interesting. Making some of this sodium carbonate... RMF>
The RO unit has an ASOV (a fast flush as well, forgot to mention previously) so putting a float switch in the sump was not a problem.
<<Understood...and not an uncommon though ill-advised practice>>
What are some standard solutions, mechanisms used?
<<Whatever your imagination/budget allows.  My configuration consists of a 55g polyethylene barrel sited in my garage which is fed automatically by my 5-stage 100gpd RO unit.  I control water flow to the RO unit through use of an "air-pressure" water-level switch that turns power on-off to a solenoid valve I installed between the water line and the filter unit.  The 55g drum is plumbed through the attic to a 20g reservoir positioned above my display tank.  A push-button "momentary" switch allows me to easily and conveniently fill the reservoir from the drum in the garage.  Top-off to the sump is controlled by a Tunze Osmolator which feeds water from the reservoir to the sump through a DIY Nilsen reactor (use of the reactor precludes the need to buffer the water beforehand).  This was "my" solution to the "top-off" issue...think about your needs/what you want to do and come up with an idea/a plan and I'll be happy to discuss it with you>>
Seems to me I would need a container of some sort with a pump and float switch and a level controller in the sump?
<<See...you're half way there <grin> >>
Any help in the area would be appreciated.  Just an FYI Big Al's sells Tropic Marin fairly cheap.  A 200gal mix shipped is around 60 bucks.
<<Not bad...but still decidedly more than Instant Ocean...which I also consider to be an excellent and consistent salt mix...and probably the best value for the dollar re>>
I don't know if I feel any better having a better understanding on how the tangs died, but I walk away knowing more about a number of things and plan to make a number of changes based on your advice.
Thanks
<<Is all we can do my friend.  And the more we learn...the better we come to understand...the greater the benefit to the hobby will be.  Regards, EricR>>

Blonde Naso Tang problem   9/2/06
Hello, I hope you can give me some advice.  I have a blonde Naso tang that I've cared for since April 2000.  He is about 25 cm long, full-bodied, and up until this morning, healthy.
"Blondie" usually eats from my hand, however today will not eat anything.  He has a bulge about half way down his right side.
<One sided I'll take it>
There is no outward ulceration, however he does have several little nips on his underbelly, I presume from the engineer gobies at feeding time.  These little markings have been around for quite some time.  He has no outward signs of disease (no redness on gills, no torn fins, his eyes seem clear, etc.), except he's acting different.  Instead of eating, he swims up to the glass with his bulge towards me and works his mouth, almost as if he is gasping.
Blondie shares a 75 gal.
<Too small>
tank with a brown sailfin tang, 2 engineer gobies (about 20cm each), 2 clown fish, 2 cleaner shrimp and a brittle star fish. Everyone else seems fine.
Thank you for your time; I really hope you can help me.
Best regards,
Sue Kavelman
<Mmm... it may be that this Naso has "just" swallowed too much gravel (they do this, analogous to the "crop" of chickens) and is suffering some sort of gut blockage... Perhaps addition of Epsom Salt (see WWM re) will help move this. Otherwise, offering of algae (on a feeding clip is best, so you can monitor, keep it from the Pholodichthys...). In the longer term (if there is one), this fish needs much larger quarters... at least a six foot length run/world. Bob Fenner>

Re: Blonde Naso Tang problem  - 09/02/06
Thanks for the quick reply.  My responses are below.
> Hello, I hope you can give me some advice.  I have a blonde Naso tang that I've cared for since April 2000.  He is about 25 cm long, full-bodied, and up until this morning, healthy.
> "Blondie" usually eats from my hand, however today will not eat anything.
> He has a bulge about half way down his right side.
> <One sided I'll take it>
[Yes, just the right side, and I don't think it's getting any larger.]
> There is no outward ulceration, however he does have several little nips on his underbelly, I presume from the engineer gobies at feeding time.
> These little markings have been around for quite some time.  He has no outward signs of disease (no redness on gills, no torn fins, his eyes seem clear, etc.), except he's acting different.  Instead of eating, he swims up to the glass with his bulge towards me and works his mouth, almost as if he is gasping.
> Blondie shares a 75 gal.
> <Too small>
[You're right, we have quite a bit of live rock in the tank - do you think I should remove several pieces to allow more swim room?  It will be hard to part with him, but if he recovers from this illness, I will find him a new home.]
<Needs at least a six foot long system...>
> tank with a brown sailfin tang, 2 engineer gobies (about 20cm each), 2 clown fish, 2 cleaner shrimp and a brittle star fish. Everyone else seems fine.
> Thank you for your time; I really hope you can help me.
> Best regards,
> Sue Kavelman
> <Mmm... it may be that this Naso has "just" swallowed too much gravel (they do this, analogous to the "crop" of chickens) and is suffering some sort of gut blockage... Perhaps addition of Epsom Salt (see WWM re) will help move this.
[I read the FAQ on Epsom Salts and have a couple of questions.  In reply to an enquiry from 3/1/2006 regarding the safety of Epsom salts in the main display, it was recommended to reduce the usual dose by half.  The advice reads that instead of 1 tablespoon/5 gal to reduce the amount to 1 teaspoon/10 gal, which is actually quite a bit less than half.  My tank is rated at 75 gal and there is quite a bit of live rock, so I've estimated there is only about 40 gallons of actual water in the tank.
<Likely a good guess>
  I dosed the tank with 4 teaspoons of Epsom salts this morning and aside from annoying all the fish in the tank, nothing has happened to lessen the swelling on Blondie's side.  (I think your diagnosis of a blockage could be correct as I don't recall seeing any defecation in the last few days.)  How long should I wait before expecting some results?  Should I dose again with the same amount of salts or change the dosage?]
<Takes a few days to a couple of weeks... I would replace/replenish the Epsom with the commensurate amount of seawater removed/replaced>
Otherwise, offering of algae (on a feeding clip is best, so you can monitor, keep it from the Pholodichthys...).
[I've tried offering fresh Caulerpa (?) from my daughter's tank, however no one in the tank seems interested in it.
<Mmm, Nasos don't generally find Caulerpaceans palatable... eat more Brown and Red Divisions...>
I usually feed dried Spirulina
algae flakes and offer dried seaweed in the veggie clip - are you recommending a specific kind of algae?]
<At the Division level, yes>
In the longer term (if there  is one), this fish needs much larger quarters... at least a six foot length run/world. Bob Fenner>
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Attn: Bob Fenner- Naso Tang problem  - 09/02/06
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.  I dosed the tank with 4 tsps of Epsom salts dissolved in the top up water I was adding this morning.
<Good>
Should I just leave things as they are or add more Epsom?
<Only replace the part/percentage of Epsom removed if/when you change out water...>
We were going to do a water change this weekend (usually about 20 gal.) - is this okay, and if so, how much Epsom salts should I add after the change?
<Two teaspoons>
When you refer to algae Divisions, is that a brand name?  
<Mmm, nope... is the botanical taxonomic equivalent to zoological phylum, plural, phyla... The Phaeophyta and Rhodophyta in this case>
I know of no source for live algae, however red and brown dried in sheets is available - will that suffice?
<Ah, yes. This is it. Sorry for the lack of clarity. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Sue

Re: Attn: Bob Fenner- Naso Tang problem   9/4/06
Hi Bob,
<Sue>
I'm very sad to say it looks like Blondie's not going to survive this ordeal.  He still hasn't eaten since Thursday night and this morning is pointing nose down in the tank.
<Mmm, I would not give up hope...>
I've tried reading the FAQ's for euthanasia, but it seems like a lot of conflicting opinions - clove oil, Alka seltzer, freezing...   What is your suggestion for a fish of this size?  And if that's freezing - can you tell me just how to go about it.
Thanks,
Sue
<A "plastic fish bag", no water... Bob Fenner>

Not quite psychic yet...more info please! (Naso Tang)   7/2/06
Good morning Bob I have a few question.
<Actually this is Adam J with you today...hello.>
I have a Naso Tang and in the  last couple of days have noticed her acting funny.
<Not "Ha-Ha" funny I presume.>
  It's eye's has a cloud   coating.
<An indication of declining water quality or something environmental here.>
It has also started to turn really dark and not moving as much as it  did at one time.  
<Hmm, see above...to help further I need to know more about the system the animal is in, water quality? Tankmates? Diet?>
It also developed a purple  color and started to bump  into things like it can't see.  It has stop eating and this morning she had  a whole lot of little white spots all over it.
<See my above comment/questions and start with some water changes.>
what could be going on with  it and how can I treat the problem.
<See above...Adam J.>

Re: Naso Tang ... dis.   3/16/06
I just have a question about the Quick Cure product I'm using.  You stated I needed to treat the tank for 20 more days to ensure that all the cysts have hatched and are killed.  Do I treat for 20 consecutive days or should I alternate days?  How long can I treat with this product without harming my fish?  <Donna, first off, 20 days would be the minimum duration of treatment.  To be effective, a copper test kit should be used to ensure a copper level of 0.20 is maintained on a daily basis for the duration of the treatment.  Do read here.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm  James (Salty Dog)> <<James... QuickCure has no copper in it... RMF>>

Lipstick tang health, sel.   3/15/06
Hi
I would like to know if you have any ideas on why our lipstick tang died. We've had the tank 5ft- 380litres) for 3 months. We have a blue damsel, 2 coral banded shrimp, Fijian damsel, 2 clownfish and a coral beauty (all small specimens). We test regularly, everything stays relatively the same, and I tested again after the tang died. Ph-8.4, ammonia 0.1,
<Should be zip>
nitrate 20ppm.
<Borderline high>
We had the tang 9 days, when we first got it there was a small amount of tail fighting with the coral beauty, but after this all seemed harmonious. The tang ate well each feed either brine shrimp or vege cubes and we also added seaweed which it grazed on. The night before it fed well and seemed happy. Dead as a door nail the next morning! Shop said maybe stress but that it would have white spots if this was the case. I examines the tang, there were no marks at all, it looked perfectly healthy, other than being dead obviously.
Any ideas would be appreciated
Cheers Megan
<Naso species do often "just die" shortly after arrival/collection from the wild. Likely "cumulative stress" could sum up the "cause" here. Buying a specimen that has been "on hand" for a few weeks will likely assure its survival in your setting. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang ... selection? - 2/11/2006
I bought a Blonde Naso Tang last week.  I bought him because the "expert" at the LFS said these were hardy fish and not particularly disease prone. <He's also a comedian too?> He also tested my water and told me it was fine, but I didn't ask the specific parameters.  He told me that he had been quarantining using a UV sterilizer for approximately 1 month. The Naso has been in my tank for 4.5 days.  I noticed two days ago that he has white spots on his fins.  The same "expert" at the LFS advised me to give him a bath in 2.5 gals of fresh water and 11 drops of formalin with an antibiotic in the water.  Is this the way to treat that? <I'd like to ask you a question first.  Why didn't you quarantine the fish before placing it in your tank?  This makes an effective treatment much easier.  Freshwater dips are usually the first stage in treatment.  Do google search our Wet Web site, keyword "freshwater dip".  You will find your info there.  I'm also hoping you have at least a 70 gallon tank for that guy for starters as they can attain a length of up to 8 inches and do require plenty of swimming room.  James (Salty Dog)>
Donna  

Naso tang, dieting issues     2/6/06
Hello crew,
         First I would like to thank all of you for the invaluable service you provide to everyone in the hobby. I have a 4" Naso tang in a 110 tall FOWLR. The tank is 1 yr old with appx 60 lbs of live rock on a 30 gal wet dry setup skimmed and UV sterilized. his tank mated are a (and i know your gonna hate me for this, but i was an ignorant consumer at the time) Moorish idol, and a regal angelfish (red sea). everyone has been doing very well and is fat and happy. Appx. one week ago the Naso tang developed a small pinch but with no change in eating habits. The pinch became progressively worse up until yesterday still no change in eating habits. today he is literally a skeleton and is lethargic and it appears he hasn't eatin for months. the attitude has changed overnight. His diet has consisted of brown and green macro, Kent marine flakes, ghost shrimp, brine shrimp, frozen zoo, Mysis shrimp, formula 2, and shrimp pellets, all alternating and all enriched with Zoë, Zoecon, omega lipids, garlic, and vitamin c, (also alternating). They obviously all eat better then i do, good water parameters, and is feces is of normal coloration. The tank is cycled appx 16x per hour and i do religious water changes. I am completely stumped. Any help would be a blessing .        thank you,  Ed  
<Likely a persistent internal fauna issue. Please read here: Google: Naso, skinny, disease: http://www.google.com/custom?q=Naso%2C+skinny%2C+disease&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com
If the animal is still eating, a treatment with Flagyl/Metronidazole may save it. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang Trouble - 02/03/2006
Hello WWM:
<Hi John.>
I appreciate your assistance in helping me diagnose a problem with a Naso Tang.
<I'll try.>
I have asked purported experts at 2 reputable fish stores to provide some guidance and each provided little or no assistance.
<OK...No pressure.>
THE ENVIRONMENT
*100 Gallon Tank
*100  Pounds of Tonga Rock
*Established 1 Year
*Temperature 84 Degrees
<I'd lower this to about 78-80 if possible.>
*Salinity - 1.023
*Ph - 7.9
<Try to get this up to about 8.3.>
*P04 - 0
*N03 - 30
<Ouch. 10 or less would be much better.>
*4 Clownfish
*1 Sailfin Tang
*1 Hippo Tang
*1 Flame Angel
*1 Royal Gramma
*1 Goby
THE PROBLEM
I purchased the Naso approximately 2 weeks ago. He appeared healthy and reasonably active in a relatively small store tank.
<Hmm...Reasonably?>
After we purchased the fish we acclimated him to the water temperature and did a fresh water dip prior to releasing him into the display tank.
<No QT I see. Only acclimated to temp.?>
We noticed with 1-2 days that one of his eyes appeared to be injured and we were told it was most likely an injury and not eye cloud or Popeye. The water quality is perfect and I just recently had the tank serviced.
<I wouldn't quite say perfect, but is mostly acceptable.>
That problem seems to be improving.
<Good.>
The second problem is that the tang also eats very little.
<Uh-Oh...>
Flake and pellet food are not of particular interest though he did at times eat the seaweed.
<Not good. Have you tried soaking these in a vitamin prep. or appetite stimulant?>
The real problem now is that for the past 2-3 days he has been moving erratically. He generally is inactive is often seen at the bottom of the tank or on an angle against the rock or, at times, flat on the crushed coral.
<Sounds like stress. The filtration seems inadequate with the nitrate levels, and Tangs need an environment with low metabolic wastes and high dissolved oxygen. It sounds like these are the problems as well as a lack of personal space for this fish.>
The gills are moving rapidly and the fish appears to be in severe stress. The service person said that everything is fine and further that Naso Tangs in particular tend to behave that way and will rest on the bottom of the tank and against rock and I should not be concerned.
<What!? This is definitely something to be concerned with.>
The fish will sporadically swim for short periods then will again rest at the bottom of the tank. When sporadically bothered by the other tangs the fish will tail whack and defend itself. The situation looks grim. Any suggestions?
<I don't think this tank is big enough for all these fish. This is probably a combination of environmental and psychological stress. I'd start with a good 25-30% water change to lower those nitrates. Given the mix of fish, I'd say you dissolved oxygen is low also, so I'd add an airstone or other means of aeration. How's the flow in your tank? Vigorous circulation is also necessary. Skimmer? Don't see one listed. As far as the mix you've got, review on WWM re, and consider reducing this load.>
Thank you.
John
<You're welcome. - Josh>

Naso tang sudden death   1/7/06
Aloha WWM Crew,<And a lei for you>
I will get straight to the point.  I have had a Naso Tang in a 75G FOWLR for about 10 months.  The Tang has been healthy up until yesterday when I noticed it would not eat.  It actually went over to it's feeding rock where I  put the Nori, but would not eat any.  The following hours he got progressively worse and died the next day.  My water parameters are these: Nitrite-0, PH- 8.6, Nitrate- 40 ppm, Ammonia-0, water temp-81, SG 1.020.  Tankmates are 2 yellow tangs and 1 small clown. <SG is a little low John.> Equipment is an Eheim 2213 canister filter, an Aqua Clear 300 power filter, 2 Rio 600 power heads, and an Aquarium Systems skimmer.  These water parameters have been stable since I started the tank about 1 year ago (except the nitrates).  I noticed two things I think may have contributed to his  demise but am puzzled as to why he went so quickly.
First: his back fin looked like it had been bitten a few times by a tankmate.  Can an aggressive tankmate cause a healthy fish to die that quick? (He hadn't shown any signs of tension before)
Second: just before the holidays, I lost my air pump.  In the confusion that is Christmas and New Years, I completely forgot to replace the pump.  As I was thinking about what to do to remedy my sick Tang, I remembered reading how these fish need a lot of dissolved oxygen.  After kicking myself I tried feverishly to fix the torn bellows in my pump but was unsuccessful.  So, my question is, wouldn't lack of dissolved oxygen make the fish a little lethargic weeks before he passed?   <<Jsmes... this is a question... respond. The answer is yes. RMF>>
I really appreciate your insight as I am truly puzzled by this "sudden death".  <John, first off, your tank isn't large enough for these fish.  I suggest at least a 5 to 6 foot long tank.  Your present filtering devices are not going to give you the pristine water quality that these fish require (by pristine I don't mean parameters).  A sump/wet dry which will provide near saturation levels of O2 is one requirement.  A good protein skimmer is a must.  The skimmer you are using <my opinion> is really not efficient enough in removing dissolved protein to help in lowering your nitrate level. A vitamin enriched algae diet is another requirement.  Please do read articles here.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangs,.htm>
Mahalo,<And to you.  James (Salty Dog)>
John

Torn Between two tangs 10-12-05
Dear Crew,
<<Hello>>
I have a 180 g FOWLR that had been a closed system for quite some time until this summer when after a 4 wk quarantine I added an adult emperor angel.
<<QT should always be a minimum of 4 weeks and I personally suggest a minimum of 6 weeks on tangs and angels as they like to harbor "nasties".>>
The 180 had a powder blue and a Naso tang, both beautiful fish. A purple tang and Foxface that I have had for 8-9 years were looking like they were on their last  leg ( probably old age , I guess ) and I decided to open the system to new inhabitants.
Unfortunately, despite using a QT the tangs look like they came down with crypt. I pulled all fish from the system, treated then in QT's with copper for 3 weeks and let the display lie fallow for 5 weeks.
<<Again as a general rule, a tank should be left fallow for 6-8 weeks and temp. should be raised as high as tolerable for current inhabitants to increase the rate of the parasite life cycle.>>
I have since re-introduced all of the fish except for the tangs. For 4 weeks since the 180 has been with fish the system looks great. My tangs are also doing well while still in the QT except for some HLLE that they acquired while copper treated. 
The Naso has a few scattered papules on the face and head and body that copper had no effect on ( ? HLLE ) but is otherwise doing great. The Naso and powder blue are in a 55 g tank together. The papules on the Naso are whitish and 
much 4-5 times larger than what is seen with crypt, this has been a chronic condition for this fish but it has not been that noticeable nor has it affected the fish's activity eating etc.
Now I am faced with a dilemma : Should I dare re-introduce the tangs into the display. I fear that tangs are very "parasite prone" Currently the 180 has an adult emperor 6". a majestic 4-5" Foxface 5" Heniochus 4" a couple of clowns and one damsel, 250lbs of LR with plenty of hiding places.
Probably no good answer to this question, but I thought I would try asking.
<<The best answer I can give is; if you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't do it. You are correct in your thinking that tangs are prone to infection. My advice would be to pick one and give the other to a friend or set up the 55 for the outsider.>>
Jimmy
<<TravisM>><<<I actually am going to make a comment... both species listed here are unsuitable for a four foot long system (should be in six foot minimum)... the mucus marks on the Naso are likely "just" resultant from stress... RMF>>>

Sick fish floating - emergency 8/8/05
Please Help!  I tried and looked for an answer on your site but I am a little flustered at the moment.  I just came home to my healthy Naso Tang floating on the top of the aquarium on his side gasping.  The water quality is fine, all the other fish are fine.  I did a complete tank change from a 75 to a 150 last Sunday, and everyone was fine.  Do you think this could be stress?  
<Not likely>
If so is it possible for the stress to hit him a week later?  What should I do?  I put stress coat in the tank the day of the change, and just now again.  The tank has plenty of o2 as I have a sump in my basement the water crashes into.  Please advise!  I am freaking out and do not know what to do!!! Thank you Jack B. Schimpf
<We need more info on symptoms than simply floating. Is it closing or favoring one gill over another, and color changes, what is the diet, how old is the fish, etc. In the meantime, I'd suggest you get the fish into a QT tank with some aged aquarium water and some aged/mature filter media or live rock from the tank. Add 1 TBN of Epsom salt per 5 gallons and then repeat the dose after a water change 3 days later. You might add B12 and/or Beta Glucan to the water or feed for appetite/immunity boosting. And please do read through our archives at wetwebmedia.com to see if any other symptoms look familiar and treatments if necessary. Best of luck, Anthony>

Emergency sick fish floating II 8/8/05
Thanks Anthony, Not sure how old he is.  bought him already as an adult, he already has the "streamers " on his tailfin if that tells u anything.  He was floating on his side, now he is down below in a rock crevice and very difficult to see if he is favoring 1 gill over the other.  Diet consists of flake in the AM and frozen brine occasionally in evening, along with seaweed.  He was healthy as a horse and actually wouldn't leave me alone if I had to put my hand in the tank for any reason, so he isn't shy.   
Color is fine and as I said everyone else is fine, even my Dragonet
<This indeed sounds a bit better for the fish... being well-established and with a history of hearty eating. The symptom, again, is so general as to be any of a number of things... but do still consider my recommendation. The use of magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt) is mildly therapeutic and rather harmless if not helpful (its already in sea salt and fish food). The purpose here is to assist osmotic balance. You might lower the salinity and temperature in the tank just slightly for increased oxygen and slower bacterial proliferation. Nominal, but leaning in the right direction here. Best of luck/life. Anthony>

Emergency help: floating fish III 8.9.05
Thank you for your help Anthony, but he didn't make it between the 2 emails unfortunately.  
<I'm very sorry to hear it, bro>
I am just worried that the same thing will happen to the rest of the group, although they all seem fine.
Is there something out of the ordinary I should test for?  
<With a general symptom like "floating" it could be so many things from duress/stress to worms perforating inner tissues (unlikely) to bacterial infection (more likely). Start with a thorough test of water quality, then follow with a large water change and feed your fishes well while watching closely for the next days/weeks. But don't medicate without a clear symptom to respond to>
Also when I removed the Tang from the tank, he had some brown coloration lines on his sides that weren't ever there before.  Any ideas?
<Death. seriously... no idea guessing sight unseen from here. Sorry, my friend... but it would not be fair to speculate on a general text description. Do insure water quality and proceed from there. kindly,
Anthony>

The death of my Naso
My silver Naso was so happy  and I cut his romaine back to once a week because he was neglecting the algae that was his normal dinner.  I came home one night to find my wife in tears and my little boy dead in a bowl dead.
He gave me no signs that he was sick and it was 4 days prior that I went into my 85 gallon reef tank
<Too small>
and cleaned all of the glass with a blade and I even cleaned my rocks and my wet dry pumps.  The tang had small white worm like parasites coming from his gills I saw 2 when he was in the bowl.  I was too upset to cut him up to see the extent of the parasites.  Have you seen this before?
<Mmm, yes, but rarely...>
My  coral are healthy and happy and my mean black damsel  is fine.  Please advise me so I can know what to do when I get another.  I never knew I could become so attached to a fish.  Thank you for your time Jerry Fogle
<... There are a few worm phyla parasitic groups that this could be... and generally they present no problems as you experienced... they can be virtually eliminated in going through your quarantine procedure with new fishes with the use of Praziquantel or similar... (PraziPro...). The fishes of this genus need at least a six foot long tank to adjust well, live generally in captivity. Bob Fenner>

Needing help about lipstick tang, illiteracy
Hi just wondering we had a lipstick tang and it was fine and then a couple of weeks down the track we brought a blue tang and put it in the tank and then the lipstick tang started acting funny our blue tang died and then a couple of days later our lipstick tang turned a really dark grey colour and stopped eating.
i just wanted to know what does it mean when the lipstick tang turns a really dark grey colour is it because it has a disease.
thanks Semiany
please reply i would really like to know.
<The darkening is a sign of psychological and/or physiological stress... Something/s frightening and/or challenging to the specimen. Bob Fenner>

Re: needing help about lipstick tang and English
i got ur email after that our blue tang died our lipstick tang died a couple of days after that and then a week later our clownfish died as well i just wanted to know what could be the problem they all died like that like a couple of days between them. thanks please give me a answer back please.
<Please help yourself... tens of thousands do everyday... and read what is posted re marine set-up and maintenance, these species on WWM. Bob Fenner>

Constipated Naso Tang?
Hello.... I have an 85 gallon "fish only" tank including 1 Naso tang, 4 green Chromis, 1 maroon clown, and a Pseudochromis (sp?). Tank has been established for about 5 months and all fish are healthy and water quality is good (1.022 sp grav., 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 8.2 ph, and 20-40 nitrate).
<I'd work to keep this below 20 ppm maximum.>
My Naso tang (nicknamed "Hoover" because he normally is like a vacuum in that he eats everything) seems to have a problem. We noticed yesterday, when he didn't seem at all interested in eating that his "pooper" seemed to be plugged up. You can notice when he swims by that there is some stuff up there that seems to want to come out but isn't doing so. Normally, his poops are record breaking so the fact I haven't seen him go is a bit odd.  He has lost some of his energy (he has always been very active) and he hasn't eaten in 2 days now. (My fish are normally fed 2 times a day and eat a variety of brine shrimp, Formula 1 or 2 and seaweed.) 
Also, I have a small fake plant in the corner of the tank that is bright pink and in the past, Hoover has nipped at the plant and taken little bits of the pink material off the plant. He then eats those bits of material and will even poop them out and eat them again. This has been going on for a month or so. 
Now, in the blockage seen in his "pooper," I've noticed a small strand of the pink material. Not sure if that's dangerous or not.
<Good observation, description>
Anyways, I'm a little worried about him and the fact that he is not eating tells me there is obviously something wrong. Is there anything I can for him or do I just need to ride this thing out?
<If it were me, mine, I'd help out a bit by adding some Epsom Salt to the system... at a rate of one level teaspoon per ten gallons of actual system water>
Because I can see the blockage I'm tempted to grab him and just pull it out but I really don't want to take that step. Just looking for some answers. I searched the whole site and couldn't find anything related to this exact problem. Your time and feedback is much appreciated! Thanks, Chris.
<Do a search using the term Epsom... magnesium sulfate, on WWM. Bob Fenner> 

Sick Naso Tang
Yes, I have a Naso tang. I have had it for a week. It was doing great this afternoon when I came home around midnight and it was laying on the ground in the back of my tank. My husband was able to move it and we looked to see if it had any signs of diseases, none. When it tried to swim it would do somersault so to speak, till it fell to the bottom. We checked the water quality and did the weekly test and everything was perfect. Can you help me figure what went wrong and do I have to worry about my other fish and coral? Thank you for your time. 
<The Naso Tang is not an easy fish to keep alive for any length of time. By your description of the Naso, I'm thinking it is no longer with us, but if he is, there is a link below on controlling this disease. All fish in the tang family are very prone to ich. If you are new at this, they are not a good choice. As far as the other fish getting the disease, you will just have to monitor them. Since you have corals, you wouldn't be able to treat the display tank unless all inverts are moved.
Here is a link on controlling parasitic diseases. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasiti.htm.  Good luck. James (Salty Dog)>

Naso Tang Death
Hello, 
<Hello Michael>
This may be too vague and too many causes to answer but I'll give it a shot anyway.
I came home tonight to find my Naso Tang wedged behind some rocks and barely alive. I immediately removed him from the main tank and put him in my sump so that I can keep an eye on him and gather him up if he dies. I then tested my water for anything that seemed out of whack. I can find nothing that appears to be wrong. My Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia are all zero. 
My buffer capacity was above (as far as I can determine from the color) 300ppm. My Specific Gravity is 1.021 and my pH reads 8.29. I have a RO/DI unit topping off the tank, so I don't *think* I am getting something bad from the water supply. The tang shows no signs of Ick and his eyes are clear. He does appear to be "gasping" through his mouth and his equilibrium seems to be off (i.e. he was swimming upside down a few times).
I have done a couple of things over the past few weeks that I question whether or not it might have an affect. First, because of a micro bubble problem and at the LFS suggestion, I added a filter bag to the end of my overflow. This eliminated the bubbles but I question whether or not I could be suffocating the tank? Is that possible?
<I don't think so> 
I also added a "cleaning" crew of snails, hermit crabs, peppermint shrimp, etc to the tank. They have destroyed about every bit of algae in the tank. Could I be starving the Tang? 
<Possibly, they do like algae in their diet.> 
I feed Mysis about every 5 days. The tang and 2 damsels are the only fish in the tank. I did accidentally leave the Mysis out all night and then refroze it. Could I have contaminated the food source doing this? <It's possible> I did add a pH buffer 2 days ago to raise my pH from 7.8 and it indicated that ammonia in the water could be lethal but again my ammonia level was zero. Is there something else I should look for? 
<Michael, the Naso, Powder Blue/Brown are all difficult tangs to keep. They do require at least 100 gallon systems as they are constantly swimming. Water quality is of the utmost importance. Normal test readings are really not an indicator of water quality. Ten percent water changes per week need to be done to maintain the quality and trace element supply. The use of a good protein skimmer adds to the quality of the water. Diet also plays an important role. Here is a link on the Naso Tang if you haven't read it already. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm.  James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks so much, Michael 
<You're welcome>

Vlamingi--Brown spots with white center that looks like air bubble
Dear WWM Crew,
<Joey>
Thank you for the great work! I couldn't find anything references to my problem in your existing documents (which never happened before!!) so here I am writing for the first time :-) Thank you for your time.
<Welcome>
My young vlamingi tang (2.5-3")...
<Wow, this is small>
... has been in my system for 7-10 days. Last night I realized there are some random brown/tan/rusty color dots (1mm
across) on the ventral sides of his body (belly, mostly towards the back). The strange thing about the brown/rusty dots is that they are flat against his body, but have a white center (pin-head size) that stick out from the body like bull's-eye, which reflects light like an air bubble.
<Yes... these are likely "just normal coloration".... I see this on ones in the wild at times... when I can get close, the lighting's good>
Moreover, the same white dots on his side fins and the dorsal side of his body (all along his back), I would have thought they are ick, but I am not so sure after seeing the rusty outer rims. They also reflect light like air bubbles. 
<Yes>
What should I do? Should I separate Mr. Vlamingi form the rest of his tank mates? I cannot get a picture of him, I waited for 20 minutes and the camera only stresses him out!
<I would "do nothing"... very unlikely not a problem with your Naso here>
Thank you so much for your time.
Sincerely,
Joey
System set up:
Main tank: 55 gal, 50lbs LS, 60lbs LR, 220 power compact, 1 rotating power head, CPR BakPak protein skimmer.
Sump: 20gal, almost full, regular household fluorescent light on 24 hours) with little macroalgae.
Livestock:
Fishes: 
1 silver hybrid tang (4.5")
<Really? I wonder, what sort of cross?>
1 vlamingi tang (2.5")
1 homeless male false percula (1.5")
1 mandarin dragonet (3.5")
Inverts: 1 cleaner shrimp (2")
Clean up crew
1 bubble coral (2.5")
1 pulsing xenia (2.5")
1 long tentacle coral (5")
<Mmm, do realize you're going to need a larger tank with the Vlamingi... at least six feet long in time. Bob Fenner>

Naso Tang
Hi there 
<Hello Jaime>
Thank you so much for your website, it has been great help to us, you guys and gals are great! However I have looked over forums and articles and have had no luck with my problem. 
We have lost our first fish today and I have no clue why. I would be forever in your debt if someone could help me! So here we go..... We set up our first marine tank 4 months ago and all has been going  swimmingly until today. All tests are normal and our water quality is high and our other fish are doing great so far (knock on wood). 
So here is our problem. We bought a lipstick/Naso tang about a month ago from our trusted fish store. He acclimatized well in the tank and was doing great. Then we had an unfortunate incident where he dive bombed himself into a live rock formation for no apparent reason and got himself stuck. I noticed him stuck so I freed him by moving the rocks. 
After that he seemed a bit freaked out, acting a little funny, his right eye looked like it had been scratched so it was a little cloudy and his left fin seemed to be bothering him, but a few hours later he seemed much better so we didn't want to stress him anymore by moving him to the quarantine tank. Over the next day he appeared to be healing fast, he was still acting a little bit weird, but he seemed ok because he was still swimming around and he was still eating. 
Then we came home from work today to find him lying almost dead on the bottom of the tank. His breathing was very slow, and he had turned the most horrible dark colour. So through teary eyes we moved him into the quarantine tank so that he wouldn't die in the big tank. He doesn't appear to have any strange markings or any of the symptoms of any disease I could find on the website. I am still worried that he might have something that has infected the tank, please could you help me with any clues on this strange behaviour?  We loved that little guy. 
<Jaime, sorry to hear about your loss. The tang you selected is one of the most difficult tangs to keep in captivity. They are from the same family as the Powder Blue Tang, another almost impossible tang to keep for any length of time. I am gathering from what I read here that little or no research was done on this fish before you purchased it. I don't know what size tank you have, but they require a minimum tank size of 70 gallons. These fish can grown 20-24" in the wild. I would like you to read info on a link I'll include here. This certainly will help in any future tang purchases as there is not much we can do with the one you had. If your a newcomer to this hobby you definitely want to stay away from tangs in the Acanthuridae family which yours was a member of as they require an extreme amount of care to survive in captivity. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm James (Salty Dog)> 

Naso Tang and moving tank
Why does my Naso tang keep going a darker colour? I thought it may have been when he is scared but I have noticed that it does it when he's not scared. <Here is a link to a ton of FAQ's you should read about the Naso. http://www.google.com/custom?q=Naso+Tang&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com  It should provide you whatever you need to know.>
I have a 50 gallon setup and a 10 gallon quarantine tank can you give me some useful information and tips on how I would go about moving the tanks to another house a street away.
<And yet another link on moving. http://www.google.com/custom?q=Tank+moving&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com  Good luck in the move. James (Salty Dog)> 

Blonde Naso Tang Didn't Make It - Not in Vain
Last night I noticed a white mucus discharge from the Tangs anus. I moved him to QT and this morning he passed on. Although I am sad to see him go and feel responsible for his passing some good will come of his death. I went up to the LFS where I purchased the fish. After a long talk they came to the conclusion that they too were responsible for the fishes stress and death as they left the fish in the bag 7 hours after they got it from their dealer. We talked about QT their fish and possibly holding their fish one week before they are offered for sale to avoid this in the future (some background I consult with the LFS on water quality issues). Their water system is being changed so every tank is on a separate system and not one large system. So if one fish gets sick, all stock does not suffer. They admit their losses are high mainly due to the customers knowing when new fish arrive and trying to buy them the same day they get to the store and have been acclimated to the store tank. I and they feel that considering the way they get their fish (from a store 80miles north by truck. Time from packing to delivery I was told is 20 hours in bag. Bag is left on dock in a packing box until truck picks them up), the stress they are under when they arrive to the LFS and the added stress of moving to the LFS tank then the customers tank seems to be just too much for some fish. So maybe some good will come of this.
I have also learned for your website, that I just do not have a large enough tank for a tang, so I will wait until such time as I do before I consider purchasing another one. 
<Good idea. Also go to the WWM for information on selecting tangs before your next purchase. Better yet, I'll post the link here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangselfaqs.htm>
Thanks for your help, and the education you have provided. 
<Thanks for sharing. James (Salty Dog)> 

- Naso Tang Stress -
Good evening,
<Good morning.>
I have read through your site and must say it has helped me very much. I have a question I tried to get an answer to on your site but could not find a specific answer to (if I missed something I am sorry).  In my 55 gal reef tank I purchased a Blonde Naso Tang (I plan to move him to a 135 in the next 8 months). When I got him and put him in QT he laid on his side and looked like he was going to die. After a long night with him he seemed to do better, but still looked stressed, also he would not eat and I do not have any brown or red algae in the QT.
So I moved him to the ref tank where there is food for him to eat. Before I go any farther my water is all in spec. I am a water microbiologist and take sample to the lab to check everything using UV/ mass spec, HACH tests and AA. 
<What a luxury!> 
Ammonia is <0.1ppm, Nitrite 0.02ppm, Nitrate 0.12ppm, SP1.024, Ca 435pm, pH 8.45, Temp 78'F. I can give you ORP, TDS , M alk and P alk, MO, and all other trace minerals, metals etc. if you need it or think it will help. 
<Nah... sounds good so far, certainly have no reason to doubt your measurements.> 
Water changes are weekly at 10% made with Laboratory grade RO water that has been run through a mixed bed DI unit. I also do a lime water drip I make up in the lab with lab grade (Fisher Scientific) Calcium Hydroxide (1.8gm / gal.).
For the first week the Naso hid and only came out when the room was empty, if I peeked in the room I could see him pick at the red algae and brown algae, but if I came in the room he hid. I can see where he picked at the algae in the tank so I am sure he was eating. Now a week later he sits in one part of the tank and just looks at one piece of live rock for hours at a time and won't move or eat. He hovers at a head down position (45' angle) just looking at this one piece of rock. I have tried to feed him algae on a clip, marine flakes, krill, brine shrimp. He won't eat. I am afraid he will starve. 
<He well may.>
His color is light gray with white blotches that come and go or get lighter and darker, but never go away.
I check the water for ick and him, no ick. The 2 damsels and one coral beauty and one clown are all fine. I don't want the Naso to suffer and want to help him, but I do not know what to do, or if there is something I can do. 
<Well... it sounds to me like this fish is in extreme stress... and may have been this way before you picked it up. Best I can recommend is to leave the lighting out for a while, make sure it has a place to hide, make certain there isn't stimuli in the tank room that would keep this fish on edge, and let time takes its course. Unfortunately, some fish don't come back from this... but some do... need time to adjust to capture, transport, new water chemistry... is a lot to handle for a simple fish. I wish I could offer you more but really the best you can do is leave the algae on a clip in the tank and leave the fish alone.>
Please help I am at a loss.
Jim R., M.S.
<Good luck. Cheers, J -- > 

- Naso Tang Stress, Follow-up -
Thank you for your response, 
<My pleasure.> 
This morning I checked on the tang and he or she is found a place deep in the live rock to hide. I can still see it hovering and breathing slowly but it won't come out. I think you are right about the stress. I asked my LFS to order this fish, when it came in they kept it in a bag until I picked it up. I got off work at 5:00pm so I know the fish was in the bag all day. 
<In the future... let the store un-bag it at let it stay at the store for a while... this transfers the risk onto them, where it should be. They have better means for dealing with their shippers on compromised fish.> 
I rushed it home and tried to acclimate it to the QT but the poor guy looked like it was going to die. I pumped air in the QT tank all night at a very high level and checked on it every hour. I was surprised to see it alive in the morning, but as I said before it was on it's side and looked hungry. That is why I moved it to the reef tank. The move and my foolish move to the main display may have caused it.  I am very sad to think I ordered a perfectly healthy fish only to have it suffer for no reason. 
<Don't beat yourself up too much... these things happen.> 
Thank you for all your help, and I hope all goes well with the poor guy. 
<I hope so too.>
P.S. I will take your advice on lighting and lower it for a while. Will this harm my SPS and soft coral it goes on for a week or so? 
<Yeah... you don't want to go too long... but for at least a couple [2-3] of days.> 
Also the algae is a green / red algae mix I got at PetSmart, is it OK to feed to him? 
<Sure. Cheers, J -- > 

Sourcing a blonde Naso
Do you know where a good place to purchase a healthy blonde Naso tang?
<Likely the big etailers of marine livestock... Drs. Foster & Smith, Marine Center...>
I thought Hawaii would be the best place if I could order direct.
<Can't as far as I know... and I am there very often>
To spare the fish from being transported to more than one place.
<Good thought>
We also have a 10 gal QT tank and wanted to place him in it. We would cover the side of the tank to reduce stress. Is this a big enough tank? and how long should he be in it? Thank you for any help.
<Only if this is a very small specimen... Naso species should be quarantined in no smaller than a two foot by one foot long/wide tank... and kept in no smaller than twice this. Bob Fenner>

Lopez tang with Popeye
Hi, <Hi Cindy, MacL here with you tonight. Sorry about the delay I just got this.>
We have a Lopez Tang that has what seems to be Popeye in one eye for 3  weeks
now. <Poor guy> It is very large and full of bubbles. We have treated him with  Epsom salts one time. <Epsom salts work great on Popeye when its from an injury and sometimes will sooth the eye when its a parasite or infection but generally its not going to cure it. After a week of treatment with no response its time to try other things.> He is currently in a 10 gallon quarantine tank. He is getting Maracyn and copper. <You might consider Maracyn two. Of course, ideally if you could get medicated flakes and he would eat them that would be the best.>  He is on his fourth day and the eye doesn't seem to be looking any better. Since in the quarantine tank he won't eat which he was acting fine before moving him into the QT tank. <Understood, he's probably not happy about the move!> What else can we do to  try and help his eye. The other fish in the home tank are all fine and aren't  showing any signs of Popeye. <So many things that could have caused it, but right now the best thing is to get him healthy and try to get him back into his groove.  I know people who have had great success with Maracyn two in these situations. Also, Cindy, is he showing signs of parasites? Because if not you really want to dilute that copper as much as you can.  It can really effect the internal systems of tangs. Copper can be harsh stuff!  How's he doing at this point? Are you seeing anything on him? MacL>  
Thanks,
Cindy