Near death... 03/26/2008
So I have had my tank set up and running with no problems for 3 months now. I've battled the ammonia levels in the beginning but everything has been doing fine. I have a 55 gallon tank with a Cascade 1000 filter, Remora Aqua C and about 15 lbs of live rock. I have 2 yellow belly damsels, 2 clarkii clowns, 1 lawnmower blenny and a yellow/lemon wrasse. Oh and also a hermit crab and a turbo snail. Last night after I got home I fed them and then about an hour later looked in the tank and the clowns were laying on the bottom hardly moving and the LMB looked ill and not moving about like his normal self, was able to remove all fish with no chasing around the tank. I lost one damsel fish =( but I moved them to a smaller tank with store bought prepared saltwater, that I keep in case of emergencies.
<<Shame to hear>>
I also had to raise the temp in the smaller tank so I added a little water from the main tank and a few cups of hot tap water.
<<Please don't add hot tap water to a tank, this can be very dangerous to the fish. Tank should be raised slowly, under normal conditions>>
They didn't really move much last night after doing that I was pretty sure they'd all be dead this morning but they seem to be just fine now. Except they don't like being in the 15 gallon tank with no hiding spots.
<<Sounds fair>>
I ran all my test (Calcium, Alk, PH, Nitrate, Nitrite, ammonia) on the main tank this morning and everything seems to be in tact the only thing that was a little high was the Nitrite .2 mg/l. What could cause such a disaster? I did forget to move my snail but he is still in the main tank alive and fine. I also noticed that the little copepod guys were moving slower then normal and there are a few that died off but I do still see them in the tank moving around. Any ideas, suggestions?
<<Before moving back, i suggest getting a second opinion on your water tests. Something does not sound correct with the fish's responses in the main display tank...yet they have come around fine in the quarantine. Any additives been used on the display tank? any foreign objects been accidentally dropped in there?>>
Should I attempt to move them back I really don't want any harm to come to them.
<<As i mentioned above, i would get a second opinion on the water tests, maybe a LFS>>
Help me please. Thanks, Nicki
<<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>

SW-Tank Disaster, See the positive…learn from it 3-23-2008
Hi guys,
<<Hello from Adam J on the graveyard shift.>>
Please help we are devastated.
<<I’m awake and ready.>>
We went away for two days to visit the folks and came back and our 200 litre saltwater aquarium had been drained of 2/3'rds of it's water!
<<How’d that happen?>>
The protein skimmer had malfunctioned and drained the water.
<<In what manner?>>
Half of the coral had been exposed for what we can only assume was a total of 36-48 hours and the lights would have been on for a total of about 10 hours.
<<Depending on the species it may not be a complete loss. I would fragment/remove the dead/decomposing tissue to avoid further contamination.>>
We had a bit of an algae build up around the sides but nothing that was major.
<<Likely from the stagnant water exposed to the lighting.>>
To top it off we ran out of water to fill it back up or perform a water change and cant get any delivered for two days (public holiday).
<<That is not good…is not possible to mix your own. You may want to learn how in event of an emergency…or another that is…And while I do not know anything about your source water, I prefer to mix my own for consistency issues alone.>>
We have enough to fill the tank and run the external canister filter, undergravel filters
<<Is the canister filter and undergravel filter your normal/primary means of filtration? If so I would consider a different approach, bother can do more harm than good…many marine aquarists dub them “nitrate factories.” Read WWM for more on this and alternatives.>>
but our chiller pump burned out so we have no chiller.
<<Bags of floating ice/water bottles…fans blowing across the surface might be able to off set any negative issues regarding the temperature for a day or two until you can set it back up.>>
Our main concern is that the water will be concentrated with decaying matter and we don't know what to expect.
<<If you have any question about the state of your cnidarians I would remove them immediately to save the others.>>
Obviously we will perform 50% water change as soon as possible
<<Followed by other large changes and some fresh carbon I hope.>>
and remove any coral that we are sure are dead, but only after we are sure :(
<<I wouldn’t wait to long to pull the proverbial trigger when removing the coral. I know this is emotional but you may need to sacrifice some of the questionable pieces to save the others.>>
We were hoping you could let us know whether we should remove anything ASAP
<<Judging from the state of your tank and your current ability to repair it, I would not wait until obvious decay sets in to remove the cnidarians, you will put your other livestock at risk.>>
or add anything in the meantime or near future.
<<Lots of large water change, carbon and a PolyFilter (change it out don’t leave it in.>>
Because we can't take delivery of sea water is it ok to mix bagged salt water (the stuff you make yourself) with the water we already have in the tank?
<<Yes please do mix some and begin changing.>>
Further will the algae and any other decayed matter cause exceptional harm to the tank.
<If not augmented with water changes, then yes.>>
Also our larger maroon clown of the pair has developed some white, fleshy spots on her nose and dorsal fin but the other fish seem fine.
<<They are reacting negatively to the poor water condition. It needs to be corrected ASAP, water changes, and aeration.>>
The saddest part is we were about to take delivery of an entire, new 500 litre system this week and prepare it to transfer our coral and fish within the month but it looks as if we may have lost half our coral.
<<I’m sorry to hear that but this may serve some greater purpose. It will help you to identify problems in this system (which there are) and avoid them with your new system.>>
Any info would be greatly appreciated or even direction to any relevant material.
<<Review WWM re: plumbing and filtration of SW aquaria.>>
Our tank is our life and we are absolutely distraught.
Cheers guys, can't wait for your response.
<<Good luck, Adam J.>>

Can't keep fish alive - help!   3/17/08
Hello WWM Crew!
I have been reading your awesome site since before I got my first saltwater tank about a year ago, and I have found every question I've had already had an answer posted, until now. I recently purchased a used 75 gallon wave-front aquarium. The previous owner had used a deep sand bed successfully for a reef in this tank, so I followed his set-up exactly as he described. This includes the use of a deep sand bed (DSB) and plenum. I have approximately 5 1/2 inches of aragonite over the plenum. Then I have a CPR Bak-Pak 2 with bio bale. I have a heater and am keeping the tank at about 78-80 degrees. I also have a Zoomed PS-40 powerhead. I have two hoods for lighting. One hood contains two 40 watt Marine Glo actinic 48 inch bulbs. The other hood contains two 25 watt 10,000 K bulbs. All bulbs are new. Then
I added about 50 lbs of live rock, which is all I can afford at the moment. I constructed a PVC frame for the rock.
<And for filtration? ...any sump or skimmer?>
I allowed the tank to cycle for about 3 weeks, doing frequent testing of water chemicals. It seemed the tank had cycled. My first animal in the tank was a piece of Porites with a colony of Christmas Tree Worms from my old (smaller) tank. They seemed to acclimate fine. The
rock that I added came heavily encrusted with sponges and coralline algae and I did not seem to experience much of a die-off. The rock and its inhabitants seemed healthy after loosing some sponge, which has since started growing back. I observed hitchhiker bristle worms, little amphipods, spaghetti worms. Life appeared to be taking off. Then I added my arrow crab. After just a few days, I got to watch it molt, which was pretty cool. All was well. Then I noticed what I have identified through the help of your posts and pictures as an aiptasia.
Reading that one seldom has "an" aiptasia, and being that it was on a particularly beautiful rock that I didn't want to scrub down, I instead opted to get two peppermint shrimp. They appear to be doing quite well, though the aiptasia remains uneaten.
<Yes, unfortunately not all peppermint shrimp eat aiptasia. There's no way to know if any one or two shrimp will eat them, so it's a gamble.>
My next move was to add my False Percula, also from my old tank. It was doing fine. Then I made an impulse buy at my LFS and bought a carpet anemone without having researched the creature until I returned home.
<bad idea>
I have identified the carpet anemone as a "Sun Anemone", Stichodactyla helianthus. The False Percula took to it instantly and seems to be quite in love with this anemone. All still seemed well, though I keep coming back to this anemone as a possible source for the following
problems. After the arrow crab, peppermint shrimps, Christmas tree worms, false percula, and anemone, I bought my first exciting fish, a Coral Beauty Angel. It seemed well for 36 hours, then I found it doing the side-stroke. It quickly died. No apparent outward sign of disease or injury. I was depressed, so I backed down to something smaller (and cheaper), and got 3 green chromis fish. That same day, I also bought a frag of toadstool coral. Within 24 hours, one chromis fish was dead. Again, the chromis did not have any outward signs of injury/illness. I took some long-handled pincers and placed the dead chromis in the carpet anemone. The anemone proceeded to eat the fish, which I thought was at least keeping it's death from going to waste. It was quite incredible to watch. Then about 15 minutes
after the anemone had eaten the fish, I found the fish had been regurgitated
in its entirety.
<not unusual>
I removed the fish for a proper "burial at sea". The next day, my other two chromis fish were missing, never to be seen.
<likely dead>
I should also mention that the same day as my first chromis died, I noticed the filaments on the toadstool coral were retracted. For two days, I did not see the coral opening. I decided to take the toadstool coral out and place it in my old tank. It now is "open"
and seems fine.
Water Chemistry since I have tried adding fish: I have been continually checking my water chemistry during all of this. In particular, I have checked the following: PH, Calcium, Alkalinity, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, and Specific Gravity. Specific Gravity has been a little low at 1.021 to 1.022. PH 8.4. Ammonia has crept up at one point to .025 ppm,
<This should never happen. After the initial cycle, you should never have ammonia in your tank. You didn't let your tank completely cycle. It often takes more than 3 weeks (especially without any external filtration or skimming). Maybe this will help:
http://www.asira.org/cycling>
which I followed with a water change and it returned to the "zero" range. Nitrate and Nitrite have tested consistently in the "zero" range. Calcium was low at about 380 ppm,
with alkalinity correspondingly on the lower side.
<This is not why your fish died.>
Since the fish have died, I have added two treatments of SeaChem's Reef Complete Calcium supplement at the dose prescribed for "beginners", which is what I consider myself. I followed the Seachem directions and on alternate days added two treatments of Reef Carbonate for the alkalinity. I am going to test both again tomorrow.
So ultimately, my question is: Do you have any suggestions as to why I have lost my Coral Beauty Angel and three Green Chromis fish when the arrow crab, peppermint shrimp, false Perc, Christmas tree worms, and (the bad buy) carpet anemone seem to be doing fine?
<They're doing fine for now.>
Is there something else I should be checking for in my water? I keep wanting to blame
the carpet anemone. And do you think any of this is related to the apparent stress to the toadstool coral? I forgot to mention I also have some star polyps and orange Zoanthids, which I placed completely away from the toadstool coral and away from the carpet anemone and the star polyps and Zoanthids appear to be OK. My local guru tells me "sometimes fish die" and tries to steer me back to buy some more corals, since I don't seem to be killing those off. Any thoughts/suggestions/help would be immensely appreciated.
<Patience. You're trying to do too much too fast. You also need something for filtration other than your live rock and sand (which isn't even truly established yet). Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
And if you haven't already, please read Mr. Fenner's The Conscientious Marine Aquarist.
Best,
Sara M.>

Flame Angel FISH issue... poor English, no reading...  2/25/08
I have a question regarding a new fish I have purchased at my local pet store. it was fine looking in the store... I have had it for a week and everything was looking fine. He did first of all get picked on by my Yellow Tang. but that has stopped after the first day. Also was picked on by my Naso Tang. I also have a Coral Beauty who just swims fast around him. after a day of that the fish leave him alone. but now the Flame angel from time to time chases my coral beauty. nothing to aggravation though. I have a 125 gallon tank and there is plenty of live rock to hide in.
<... the beginnings of sentences are capitalized...>
anyways that is just some background. my issue it that I have noticed that the flame angel fish is showing white mucus on its body. so I put in some scale defender.
<...>
I am already adding an amino acid additive after each water change I do. I perform a 20-30gallon water change weekly. (the reason is because my nitrates were high
<How high is high?>
and was told to do more than the 15gallons I was doing before.) anyways the levels
are perfect 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, the ph was around 8.2 I have a ph balancer that keeps it at 8.3...also the temp is a bit high at 80-82.. I have just noticed that and have put it back down. and turned off the lights so the temp can equal out to a better degree around 78.. no other fish have seen signs of this condition.....I have had one arrow crab just kick the bucket last night. don't know if it is related or not. it maybe because of the temp in the tank or just the age of the arrow crab.
<... the so-called med.s>
I am leaning more towards the later. also the salinity is consistently around 1.020 to 1.022..
<Too low...>
any help would be appreciate. I don't want this to effect the livelihood of the rest of the inhabitants in my tank. everyone is very healthy..
1- yellow tang
1- coral beauty
1- flame angel
2- peppermint cleaner shrimps
4- yellow tailed damsels (mating)
2- clown fish (mating)
1- purple tip anemone.............
flame angel hangs near him alot
<No such word>
may be do to the fact that I have a power head close by the anemone.
<...>
and the flame is just looking for the current flow..
2- regular blue damsels
1- Naso tang
cleaner crabs (about 30)
live rock with sponge growing on it.. 2 feather dusters.
side note:
I put in a variety of seaweed daily.. whenever the seaweed is gone I make sure there is some there.. I use purple, green and brown seaweed chips. also put in the weeds that the tangs like to eat in the wild..(i can remember the name of the weeds. but it is about 6 dollars for a handful which is gone in about 3 weeks or so). also I feed the tank stage 2(garlic) flakes and stage 2 pellets. they love it. I hand feed the anemone a piece of shrimp and the cleaner shrimps a piece of shrimp every 3rd day. once a week I put in myks shrimp.
I see the flame angel eat the flakes and pellets but never meaty foods. as long as he is eating something I am ok with that. it may just not be his thing to eat meet yet. he looks to me to be about close to fully grown as well.
thanks for any quick advice you can give me so I can fix this before it creates a huge mess for others in the tank.. I just put in some medicine for this problem. I am using (Probiotic marine formula) I was told it is good to use because it will not harm other in the tank..
Brian
<... You, we need to "go back" a bunch of steps... For one, for you to learn the value of quarantine... for two, how to use the search tool, indices on WWM... Your spg. is too low for one... You may have a parasite at play... but can't tell discernibly from the data presented... The pic you sent along... this product won't work... there are no such things as reef-safe and effective protozoacides... All of this is posted/archived on WWM... Go there, read... and write back with specific issues if you still have them. Bob Fenner>

Question about fish fatalities 02/19/2008
Thank you for the informative resource. It's been a big help to us as we launched our first aquarium (a 75-gallon saltwater tank with live rock, a protein skimmer, and a canister filter which we clean weekly)
<<Thank you...Andrew here today>>
Unfortunately, we seem to have a really brown thumb.
:-( The majority of the times we have tried to introduce new fish to the tank, they have died. This is despite the fact that our water quality seems to be perfect (both in home testing and when they test it at the LFS.) Also, the fish that die do not appear to be ill. There are none of the outward signs of disease that I have seen pictures of online, and also the fish who were already in the tank do not die after a newcomer does, so they're not infecting each other.
I believe the specific chronology over the course of the past 9 months has gone something like this (once the initial cycling was done):
*add two scissortail dartfish and one small fairy wrasse
*one dartfish dies (this was the non-mysterious death-- our tank wasn't covered tightly enough and it jumped)
*add three more scissortail dartfish
*one of the new dartfish dies
*add small mimic tang
*mimic tang dies
*add Rainford goby
*Rainford goby dies
*add sand goby
*add two neon gobies
*both neon gobies die
*add two Banggai Cardinalfish
*one Cardinalfish dies
*add two more Banggai Cardinalfish
*one of them dies
<<WOW...Eeeesh...that's a lot of fatalities>>
Is this even vaguely within the realm of normal for new aquarium keepers, or are we really horrid at this?
<<Something is certainly amiss here. Do you acclimate fish to your tank? If you do, what is your detailed method>>
The fish don't show any signs of stress or aggression that I'm able to discern-- the fairy wrasse, dartfish and sand goby do not harass newcomers, and all the new fish have eaten upon arriving (we feed them Spirulina-enriched brine shrimp.) Our LFS seems surprised at our bad luck. They always refund our money, but I can see the other fish from the same batch we bought our Cardinalfish from still swimming around alive at the store, so clearly they weren't just a bad batch of fish--it was being transferred into our tank that did them in.
It's starting to become very depressing. Are we making poor fish choices? Is fish mortality in early tanks always rather high and we're just having a run of bad luck? Are we doing something wrong that our LFS just hasn't been able to put a finger on yet?
<<My first thoughts are a couple of things. A potential problem with your acclimatizing techniques (or maybe lack of) or a predator in the tank. Are the dead fish showing any signs or marks that could point towards a predator? What are your exact water parameters for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Temp and salinity/sg???>>
Thanks for any light you can shed. Laura
<<Thanks for the questions. A Nixon>>

Reef Tank Loss Mystery 2-11-08
We are new to the salt tank but have been adopted by a local specialist, so she talks and says, she has taught us to be patient and slowly introduce each fish based on compatibility etc. We have gotten really good at the water stability. Consistent Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0-10 range PH bounces a little between 7.9 and 8-3.; 55 gallon, light 8-10 hours
<You may want to add some buffer if you want to keep your Ph at a more constant level. 8.1 – 8.3 is the level you want. Check out this valuable information on PH here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm; >
Here is what we have introduced over the months leading to our recent surprise losses:
Cleanup Crew Snail's and crabs
2 Yellowfin Blue Damsels
2 Percula Clowns
1 Longnose Hawkfish
1 Zebra dart Goby
1 White Sand Star
1 Banded Coral Shrimp
1 Black Brittle Star (and brittle he is)
All above have been slowly introduced, and everything was great through December and January
10 days ago we added a Bicolor, dead in 24 hours. Our supplier keeps the fish for 3-5 days and makes sure they are eating and healthy before we take possession.
<That is good. Do you witness these fish eat before you take them as well?>
We rechecked water, only issue was PH 7.8, spent the next week to ten days buffering PH until 8.3 consistent.
<Keep an eye on that Ph and you may need to add more buffer to keep it level.>
Introduced Chocolate Surgeon and a Dwarf Lion. Within 48 hours, Longnose Hawk, Surgeon and Banded Coral all dead. My question: Is the Lion guilty?
<No I don’t think so.>
We were assured the lion would only kill if fish were small enough to eat or bite.
<This is true.>
The lion is about 3 inches in body, Banded Coral was large and Longnose was about 4.5 inches.
I am at a loss. Both the Banded and the Longnose have been in the tank for at least 5-6 weeks and doing just fine.
<When was the last time you tested the water in your tank? How often do you do water changes? The most aggressive of these fish other than the lion would be the damsel fish. Let may be a strange question but have you found the carcasses of these fish or are they just disappearing? This may be a silent predator. –Yunachin>

Re: Recent Reef tank loss.  Reef Tank Mystery   2/13/08
<Yunachin here- Please bear with me as I am having PC troubles.>
Thanks for the quick reply. In response to your questions and comments. We are now diligently checking PH for 8.3. I have not placed the due importance on that measurement. Our supplier insists on us seeing the fish
eat frozen before we take possession. <That is good to hear. Some places do not do that.>
We do 10% water changes every 10-14 days. It sounds like we need to move this to every 7 days.<Or up the percentage of water you are taking out bi-weekly.>I visited with
our supplier today and came away with more questions but positive support nonetheless. She is suggesting our exterior cleaning product might be the culprit. My son has taken on the chore of making sure the glass is clean on the outside. He uses Windex and it of course sprays in a way some elements could get in the tank, not directly though.<This is not good.> He has also used Vinegar on a rag to wipe away stains on the black plastic lids. Last but not least, twice in the days before the fish succumbed he used a pair of "pliers" to insert and squish the frozen foods. Don't laugh, I am serious. And to add insult to injury, he soaked the pliers in Simple Green after each feeding.
Smoking Gun? <Yes, this would transfer poisons into the tank definitely. You can purchase feeding tongs from your LFS, and to clean them, rinse them in hot water.> We are now going to perform 1 water change today and another
this weekend, then take a sample for lab testing. Once we are sure we are stable we will proceed with caution. Suggestions on exterior cleaning products would be great.
<Some isopropyl alcohol on a bit of paper towel has worked for me, just use very little at a time.>
 What are your thoughts about our resources observations?
<I think the chemicals can definitely be the factor here.>
Thanks for all your help. Hard lesson learned if we in fact have identified the problem. My son is 9 years old and actually came forward with the revelation about the cleaning products. Smart kid. <It's good he is so honest. We all make mistakes in this hobby it is just our responsibility to correct them. Have a fantastic day. --Yunachin>

Problems, fish, anemone... livestock losses subsequent to upgrade/move   12/28/07
Hello Crew,
I've been involved in the hobby for over a year now and it all started with a 55 gallon salt tank with a stand and a Fluval 305. I kept a fairly healthy tank considering I wasn' running R/O water, a sump and sufficient filtration. I dreamed of upgrading for the last six months and finally threw down on a 125 with a 2400 gph Quiet One pump, Pacific Coast 3000 protein skimmer, 35 gallon sump, 1100 Seio. After acclimation and level readings, I transferred all my livestock from the 55 over to the 125. I drip acclimated for about 3 hours, and within days ended up losing the following;
1 Sixline wrasse
3 Chromis
1 Firefish goby
1 false percula clown
2 bubble tip anemones
<Yikes! Something very amiss here>
So I checked my levels again, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite, 8 degrees KH, 0 Phosphate, 1.023 salinity, calcium 430, Alk 8.2-8.4, ph is perfect also. I proceeded to add a cleanup crew. I lost about 50 hermits with a day, and about 2 turbo snails a week since then. Nassarius snails are still going strong though. Since then I tried to replace my Sixline wrasse 4x's and it had died within a day or two. I've tried Chromis 5x's and they've all died. I tried pajama cardinals 4x's and they all lasted about a day. The only fish that has survived all this is my Scribbled Rabbitfish.
<A good clue...>
I do weekly water changes of 10% and measure all my levels weekly. My old tank had some hair algae growing on a few rocks, so I got a sea hare to clean in up. It is back with a vengeance after about 2 weeks and now there are tiny bubbles stuck on the rocks and back glass everywhere. I am afraid to add anything else to my tank in fear of it dying and am about ready to quit the hobby
entirely out of frustration and feeling like an executioner.
<Patience here>
Do you have any ideas of what I can try before I sell everything?
<Yes>
My acclimation techniques have been everything from 1- 3 hour drip acclimation to a simple float for 20 min.s to float and add every 15 minutes. Yet everything dies, but for some reason my Rabbitfish and Nassarius refuse to die and look really healthy. My Kenya tree went from looking like beautiful and large to a limp shrunken French fry. Also put a bubble tip anemone in about a week ago and it just looks bloated and ready to cash it in.
ready to turn my tank into a coffin
Alan
<Some overt poisoning has occurred that left some of the stock unscathed... Which leads me to speculate the source was not inorganic (e.g. a metal from somewhere), nor a transient organic... that would have taken all out. It is likely that either the Siganid itself OR some negative interaction twixt the Cnidarians is/was at work here... There are ways to "test" for this... But as to a "cure"... I would add a unit or two of PolyFilter, about a pound of GAC (like Tempura, two units) in your filter flow path... and wait for about two weeks before trying a new small test organism, perhaps a damsel. See WWM re Rabbitfish, and Cnidarian Compatibility... and don't lose faith... I would have been advised that you set-up the new tank, and exercise a longish systematic approach to moving your livestock... to avoid this sort of possible/potential result/consequence... But, you are where you are now... Please begin reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcomp5.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: More ideas on tank devastation   12/31/07
You had mentioned the idea of a possible toxin in my tank being a type of metal poisoning. Would adding make up water via aluminum mixing bowl be a bad idea?
<Possibly... more for the soap/cleaner possible contamination than the small short-term metal addition>
This never occurred to me because it is new and clean but maybe I should switch to a plastic type?
thanks~ Alan
<I would... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/index.htm
the sixth tray down on water... Bob Fenner>

Mysterious deaths... SW   11/16/07
Crew,
<Bryan>
I have held out long enough; I have searched and searched for the cause of a majority of my fish dying. I have searched your web site inside and out and talk to several people, but no one seems to have a answer. I even tried the forum, but, and not to discredit anyone, but the responses were more or less elementary. So here is the scope. The tank is a 150gal with sump and skimmer. Between the return pump and powerheads I have a flow rate around 2,500gph. Corals, inverts, and mollusks etc.. consist of; (layman terms)
Hammers, Trumpets, Long and Short Tent Plates, Bubble, Torch, Star Polyps, Mushrooms, Button Polyps, Pipe Organs, Colt, T. Crocea, snails, hermits, cleaner shrimp. Fish still alive; 2 Perculas, 1 blue/green Chromis, 1 Bicolor Blenny, 1 Orange Spot Prawn Goby, and 1 Stripped Sleeper Goby (replaced white sleeper goby). Dead fish include; 1 Sailfin Tang, 1 Blue Tang, 4 blue/green Chromis, 1 blue Mandarinfish, 1 White Sleeper Goby, and 1 Six Lined Wrasse. Now, everything in the tank except the fish are fine.
All corals are fully open, extended, and growing. The calm and other inverts are also doing well.
<Good clues here... the animals that perished need higher DO, more pristine cond.s than the ones that are extant>
It all happened literally overnight; lights went out and the fish were fine, and the next morning within the first four hours fish were showing up dead.
Obviously, I check the parameters and they were fine (ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-trace, SG-1.025, pH-8.2, Cal-410, temp-78). I ruled out the mantis shrimp, because no new rock has been put in the tank since setup, and through a carbonated wash, rise and curing of the rock before the setup of the tank all mantis and pistol shrimp were removed (1 of each and very neat by the way, both captured and displayed for awhile until sold). All fish are QT'd prior to introduction. I have never had any outbreak of any sort in the tank. I did check for Anaerobiosis and notice nothing unusual (no back sand or bad smell) Oxygen level is maintained by a air stone and skimmer in the sump. Biweekly water changes from RO and reef crystals mixed weeks in advance.
The only thought I have is a bacteria, but why would it effect only certain fish?
<There is a differential in environmental tolerance as mentioned above>
There are three fish that have never shown any signs of something wrong; the two Perculas and the Orange spot prawn goby. All other fish show signs of rapid breathing just hours before death,
<Bingo>
and even during that time fish still swim around and eat. I ruled out the food source, since I threw away all food out of fear of contamination. Now I am back at maybe a bacteria, one clue I am basis this off of is the fact that after the deaths I started developing a Cyano algae in the tank, and also a clear-white film on the surface of the water in the sump. I manually removed it and used a little erythromycin to rid the tank of that problem,
<Not a good solution long-term>
and it has worked.
<You'll see...>
I let the tank run for a few weeks without any other intervention and everything seemed to be fine, so I bought and QT'd a three Chromis and one stripped sleeper goby to use as a test. After introduction two Chromis have died, but the others seemed okay. Then, today (2 weeks) after the introduction of the Chromis and goby, the Stripped sleeper goby and the bicolor blenny are showing signs of rapid breathing (still eating), but again all other fish are fine. I have a feeling that tomorrow they too will be dead, and I will still be wondering what is wrong with the tank. I have thought about a total breakdown of the tank for a cleaning and to replace the sand, but I am reluctant to do so because the corals are doing so well.
I have pondered that maybe it could be a chemical toxin (warfare) from the corals,
<Yes... this is HIGHLY likely>
but the corals don't seem to be engaged in any battles, and all LPS corals are separated by at least six inches (including sweeper tents). I have heard of Green Start Polyps causing problems in tanks, but I can't find a tie between GSP and fish.
<Can be>
As a precaution to toxic warfare I have been running chemical filtration as well.
<Good, what sort? Do you have access to an ozonizer? What is your RedOx? Have you heard/read of using Vodka... Ethanol for boosting bacterial assimilation?>
Do any of you at the WWM have an idea of what I am dealing with, any suggestions?
Thanks
Bryan
<I do... have you seen my new spiel/outline for reducing Cnid. neg. interactions? Here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above? Please respond to my questions here and let's get this systems problem/s resolved... better still, solved. Bob Fenner>

Re: Chaetodontoplus meredithi Queensland Yellow-Tail Angelfish... Unrelated? Related? Fish Deaths   9/2/07
Thanks for your fast reply Mich!
<Welcome!>
It does look like a black velvet. Hard to tell. Other pics also look like it. I will try to send more so you can see better. I have a new and bigger problem now. Since this email my passer angel has died and my blue indigo???
<I'm sorry for you loss.>
No apparent reason? I’m thinking a virus? No signs of parasites.
<Was the Black Velvet angel placed in this tank with out QT? If so I would be concerned about a potential pathogen.>
All levels are great 0 on everything except nitrates are 10 PPM.
<Not high enough to be concerning, but lower is better.>
The 2 fish went fast. I also have a red coris wrasse in there and that’s all that’s left.
<I'm sorry for your troubles. Hopefully the Black Velvet is in QT.>
It’s a 135-gallon tank. The problem I have is if all my levels are good how do I know I can put another fish in?
<I would not be in a hurry.>
I know with parasites you say leave empty for a month.
<Yes, can be efficacious.>
I would like to take the wrasse out and put in QT but in the past I have had a wrasse kill himself trying to bury at night.
<You could add sand to the QT tank.>
Is it possible I have electric current running through the tank and my fish were electrocuted?
<I guess anything is possible.>
How can I check for current running through it?
You can use a "multi-meter" tester that measure down to the "milli" which you can find at you local hardware store.>
I don’t feel anything when I put my hand in?
<Mmm, not the best way to test... What if you could!!!! You could have been seriously hurt or worse!!!!>
If I leave the wrasse in and he lives for a month should I try another fish.
<Always a risk.>
Thanks for your help Mich!
<You're welcome, not always helpful, but not for a lack of trying.>

Fish and corals dying mysteriously  7/27/07
I have a 180 gallon tank with a 45 gallon sump. The tank has been running without any problems for 3 years. I have a reef concept protein skimmer, a dolphin pump running approx 6000 gph and two 400 watt metal halides. There is a about 200lbs live rock with a 3 inch sugar fine sand bed. For my water changes I use hard water (unfortunately) filtering with a RO unit to 80ppm
<Of... TDS?>
and use Seachem Reef Salt.
I currently have a large regal tang, a med brown tang, a orange tail Gobi, a dragonette, a very large chocolate chip star, a brittle star, a coral banded shrimp and a raccoon butterfly taking care of a very minor Aiptasia problem.
For corals, I have pulsing xenia, several tree corals or the same orientation, several mushrooms polyps, a folded leather coral, a large candy cane coral, a hammer head coral and a bubble coral.
The salinity is kept at about 1.025, the PH at 8.1 dropping to 7.9 at night.
calcium is 400ppm, nitrates are about 10mg/l, temp in the heat wave is about 83 degrees F for about the past 3 weeks, normally sitting about 80.
So for the problem: A couple nights ago I noticed that the water had a yellowish/greenish tinge to it so I added some Fluval carbon to the sump with cleared up the water the following morning and I took note that corals were extremely plump and looking very healthy. Then to my surprise the following morning they were shrunk up as if in distress. I was not sure what the problem was so I observed for a day and the following morning there was no improvement and both the butterfly and brown tang were dead!
<Yikes>
I checked the ammonia it was at .1mg/l
<Chicken or the egg?>
so I did a 25 gallon water change which brought the ammonia down to about .025mg/l. I observed then for another day and didn't feed that evening, I added more carbon and put a 55watt T5 to the sump with kept the PH more stable at 7.9 through the night. The following morning the remaining fish and inverts seem to be struggling some what, but are still alive, but all the corals are still shrunk and both the bubble and hammer head are dying rapidly. I have now done another 20 gallon water change and removed the carbon for fear of bad carbon, as this is the only new thing that was added before the problem began.
I am stumped on what the cause could be and have done all that I can think of doing. Please provide your advice ASAP before I lose anymore livestock.
Look forward to hearing from you, thanks in advance.
Chester
<Don't know either, but reading what you've presented here, could this have been triggered by the carbon use? Nothing jumps out as a "for sure" or even likely "cause"... and I would continue as you've done... And going forward very likely either add to or switch out some percentage of the live rock and substrate... See WWM re this practice for rationale, methods. Bob Fenner>

Re: Where oh where did my first fish go? 6/4/07
Thanks Chris. <Welcome.> I did check for ammonia 24 hours and 48 hours after I put him in the tank, and it has remained at 0. Would a 1" fish that died, show an ammonia spike in a 53gallon tank (with about a 7g sump). <Hard to say, depends on so many factors.> I did look in the sump for him, even though I couldn't see how he could get into it, because I have an Elos tank, and the slots in the overflow are TINY. It's a dry overflow, so he'd have to end up in the sump and I don't see him in there. I have a feeling he's in the rock work, but dead or alive, I don't know. This is my first saltwater tank, and I would have NEVER imagined you could worry about a little tiny fish! :)
Bye
Pam
<Try turning out the lights, maybe cover the front of the tank so he can't see what is going on around the tank. Double-check the floor, the distance they can jump is quite surprising. And other pets that may have seen a dried fish as a nice snack? Hopefully he will still show up soon. I remember mine always loved frozen bloodworms, might want to try those and see if you can draw him out.>
<Chris>

Re: Where oh where did my first fish go? 6/5/07
Hi Chris. <Hello> I checked all around the tank on the floor again, and he's not there. No pets to go after the body. <Ok> I checked the ammonia again tonight for the 3rd night in a row, and it's still 0. Good idea on the bloodworms. I'll give that a shot. I'll let you know if he shows up. Thanks!
Pam
<Hope it all works out well.>
<Chris>

Crashing Tank - Inverts Especially - Please Help Me – 06/04/07
To the Amazing Crew at WWM,
<Hi there>
First I want to thank you for all the help your team has provided - this is actually the first time I have ever had to send you a question.
My tank is CRASHING! And it's mostly inverts. Usually I find everything I need right on the site, but anyway here is the problem. Here are my inventory, parameters, and problems.
HARDWARE
I have a 75 gallon saltwater reef tank with a venturi skimmer.
4-powerheads moving around 1000 gph.
2 larger hang-on filters are currently being used instead of an 18 gallon refugium that I have trying to set up forever with no success.
<Mmm, define "success"... and describe this unit...>
1 heater
1 - 65w/4 satellite high compact fluorescent with 2x actinic and 2x 10k bulbs
PARAMETERS
-78 degrees and salinity of 1.0255
-Alkalinity around 200-240
-PH 8.2
-Nitrite- .5 ppm
<Mmm... should be zero... always>
-Nitrate- 20 ppm
<Borderline high...>
This Tank has been established for 4 years indirectly. About 4 months ago my girlfriend and I moved in together and combined my 55 gallon reef with her 37 gallon reef to make this 75g tank.
<Ahh, togetherness>
- I also have about 90-110 lbs of liverock, mostly Fiji.
I use DT's phyto, and Kent for mostly everything else (calcium, Iodine, buffer, food adds, etc. .)
<Mmmmm... how administered?>
I feed a combination of (formula 2, Cyclop-eeze, Mysis shrimp, formula 1, and algae for the tang) I usually feed every other day or so.
LIVESTOCK
Here is where my problems are and it is mostly Inverts.
Fish - 3 inch maroon clown, 2 inch black percula clown, a 6-line wrasse (small) and ---------- Yellow Tang Died Today
Inverts - There are tons of hermits that are still living, 2 - turbo snails that DIED, 4 starfish (brittle, tiger striped, red serpent, and a black serpent) ALL DIED YESTERDAY except black serpent.
<Yikes...>
- Cowry snail DIED, 4 black/white snails DIED, 4
bumblebee snails DIED, 6 Nassarius snails DIED, and I had a brood of
snails raising for 2 yrs or so and all the babies are DEAD
-2 Black long-spined sea urchins, one DIED yesterday,
one DIEING and shedding its spines. -several Feather Dusters also.
Coral - I have many corals, mostly the same kind, but here goes. -
1 large colt coral -- 1 bubble-tip Anenome (MISSING OR DEAD) -Many
Ricardio (spelled wrong, bumpy mushrooms) DIEING,
<... troubled mix...>
-7 toadstools, many mushrooms, I am not sure what kind but mostly the flat purple, striped green, and red/bumpy ones all are shriveled up and look ready to die.
I don't understand what is happening but it is bad, everything is dieing except the clowns and 6-line. All the corals are shrunk up and withering away, the crabs seem to be fine amongst all the dead parts to eat that I couldn't get out (part of starfish arm). I pulled one urchin out yesterday because its spines were just falling out. If you have any advice or have any idea what I should do please let me know a.s.a.p. Should I take my living things over to a friends tank? Or will that end up killing their tank? I just don't know what to do. Thank you for your time
-Paul from Wisconsin-
<Something very amiss here... could be a chemical mish-mash issue... See WWM re the aspects of what you list... the Troubleshooting FAQs for each... OR could be a cascade event with the Anemone dying, poisoning the other Cnidarians... they in turn poisoning the rest of your livestock... See WWM re Anemone Compatibility... I WOULD change a good deal of your system water ASAP with whatever volume of pre-mixed/stored water you have on hand... I WOULD avail yourself of chemical filtrant use (See WWM...). I WOULD move as much of this life to other systems if you can... I WOULD read re the Selection, Compatibility of all new livestock ahead of acquisition... Bob Fenner>
 

Re: Nitrate and Phosphate spike ... SW troubleshooting... "other poisoned" event   5/25/07 First, thanks for the advice and the time spent to assist me with my water issue. I've taken your advice and stripped down my refugium and cleaned out all the Caulerpa.  I have been, over the past ~12 weeks focusing on getting my water quality back to ideal levels without the assistance of additional products (Rowaphos, Denitrate). The current water parameters (after 1 week with no Rowa/denitrate) are: Temp - 82deg (night and day) Salinity - 1.025 Ammonia - 0 Nitrate - < 5 (the color isn't 0, but not quite 5 either..) Nitrite - 0 Phosphate - 0 on my kit, tested at the LFS and was almost 0 (didn't get the exact number) PH - 8.3 (Day) - 8.25 (Night) Calcium - 400 Magnesium - 1300 Alkalinity - 4meq/l (Borate Alk. 1.5meq/l) - Seachem Test               - 10-11dKH - Aquarium Pharm. Test - aside from a few small lingering spots all of the BGA is gone. From the time of my last email to date, this is what I have done: - Weekly water change - 15g/week (~10%)    - The water is all RO/DI (replaced all my filters, membrane and DI beads to be sure), outbound TDS is 0    - stabilized at 82deg, 1.025 salinity, ~10dKH, 8.3PH    - buffered with Seachem Reef Builder/Buffer - Carbon - replaced every 14d - Polyfilter - replaced when they go 'brown'     - the PolyFilter has never changed any color other then brow, appears to just be debris - Removed the Phosphate reactor media (using it for carbon now) - Remove the de-Nitrate bags At this point, something is still not right with my water. - With the water at what appeared (from the tests) to be good levels I attempted to add 2 Cleaner Shrimp and a piece of Xenia.  I dripped all of them for over 45mins to try and make it an easy transition.  Within 24hrs of being added to the tank the Xenia was well on the way to being dissolved, and the cleaners were snacks for the brittle stars. <Likely the "too clean" water, chemical filtrant use along with the stress of being moved, new... is at play here> - For livestock I have 2 clowns, Yellow tang, Mandarin, Blenny, and a Copperband.  The fish all appear to be healthy and happy.  The sand sifter and brittle stars (3) are fine, and the snails seem to be good.  Any shrimp added seem to die almost immediately, and I have lost 2 Blood, 2 Cleaner and a Coral Banded since my spike.  I thought it could be copper, however the PolyFilter didn't change to a color that would indicate copper. <And your other invertebrates would show...>   I have a BTA, that isn't extending out fully, and appears to have bleached (spotty and semi-transparent).  It does still extend out daily about 1-1.5in, and I have been feeding it silversides which it happily takes and devours. <Good... the absence of phosphate is likely problematic...> - For corals, I have a Colt which is doing well, however my toadstool, buttons, yellow polyps are all declining almost to extinction.  All of the green star polyps and mushrooms are totally gone.  I have a Clam (Tridacna gigas) that's about 8in in size, and appears to be doing well (this is based on looking the same (color wise) as when I got it, and the mantle is fully extended). - Until the last 2 weeks any Chaeto I added would dissolve into mush within a few days.  In the last 2 weeks the pieces I have added are not really growing, however they haven't dissolved either. <Lack of essential nutrient...> At this point I'm stumped as to where to look next.  Something appears to be off, however I'm not sure what to test or check for.  Any suggestions on what my next step should be? <Cutting back on the use of the chemical filtrants...> PS: My clowns have taken to the clam, and spend all day 'loving' it as my wife says.  They protect it from anything (including me cleaning the glass), and I've seen them get aggressive with snails that happen to wander by.  I'm not sure if it bothers the clam, but it's interesting to watch, especially at night when they sleep inside the clam.  I attached some images (shrunk down) that show day and night behaviors.  Any idea if this is going to have a negative effect on the clam? <If it has not yet, not likely> Thanks again for the help, and sorry for the length of the email. Derek <Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

day night

Only just got started - Fish dying and large bristleworms. Tandem Deaths in New Marine Aquarium    5/7/07
Hello
<Hello Luke.>
there using your site a lot very helpful,
<Awesome.>
just a quick question
<Okay.>
I have lost 3 fish in the past month, 2 Green Chromis and a Banded Butterfly  fish thing with no apparent illness affecting them other than one of the Chromis seemed pale in colour.
<If by banded butterflyfish, you mean Chaetodon striatus…In all honesty I’m not surprised it perished. Most do not ship well, nor acclimate to captive diets/life in general. In fact I believe this is one of the animals listed on Bob’s poor butterflyfish list. As for the Chromis while they are hardy once established they do suffer from poor shipping at times, ha\ving quite sensitive skin.>
I am also worried about large bristle worms on our live rock (only some of the rock not all) 2 in particular seem to be at least 4-5 inches long (reddish/pinkish in colour) because I have read they can kill fish and  corals/anemones.
<Mmm…there are some predatory worms but most species that come in on live rock are simply scavengers/detritivores. It’s unlikely they could catch a healthy fish.>
Have tried to catch the buggers but they just aren't playing ball.
<See WWM and our forums WWF for tips on catching them if you must…>
System has been running for 4 months
<So relatively new.>
55 UK gal (4ft x 2ft x 2ft)
30 pounds live rock
Temp 26 C
S.g  1.023    
Ammonia 0    
Nitrate 0.1
Nitrite 0.3   
<If this is accurate should be zero…is toxic to fish an invertebrates.>
KH 125
Calcium 400
Phosphate 0.25  
Ph 8.3
Irons all 0
Using RO water
and 300watt Halide + 40watt actinic
Fish in the tank is now 1 Chromis, 2 Clown Fish and hosting Green BTA (Know I probably shouldn't have bought this at this early stage,
<Agreed.>
but couldn't resist  
<Careful impulse buys are what lead to heart-break aquarium stories.>
started to lose colour under normal tubes hence light change after lots of tlc  has started to regain colour-wife says I should marry the fish tank !!), 1 Regal  Tang (Will be upgrading as fish grows),
<Yes…>
1 blue/orange damsel
<These can get aggressive.>
, 2 snails, 2  Red Hermit crabs, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Leather, 1 Pussy Coral,
<Ahem…not familiar with that common name here in the states, that’s one of our more taboo words.>
1 Star coral  thing, and a baby BTA, all corals are opening and feeling very happy at the moment.  
If you have any concerns about my tank I would greatly appreciate any  advice you could give me as I am new to marines although I have  had freshwater fish for sometime this has been a bit of an eye opener.
<As far as the fish that perished, how long did you have them before they died? Were they quarantined? What were they eating? Any signs of aggression between tankmates? Other than the concerns I listed initially I’m not seeing any red-flags, except for a potentially overstocked aquarium at one point or at least in the future.>
Always in your debt for the endless amounts of help your site  provides.
<Welcome.>
Loads of luck in the future,
<Luke….use the force…sorry I had to say that at least once.>
Luke
<Adam J.>

New Tank Additions and Mystery Die Off  4/26/07
Hi,
<Hello.>
my name is Curtis Richards and I am familiar with your forum,
<The public Chat forum or WWM itself?>
seems to have helped a lot of fellow hobbyists.
<We try…>
I have a 55gallon bowfront saltwater tanks for a little less than a year now. Up until about 2-3 weeks ago all that was in the tank were two false perculas, a yellowtailed damsel, and a purple firefish. They were all fine eating well and everything was fine. By the way, I use a Bak pak filtration/skimmer unit with makijet1200 powerhead, airstones, heater, Odyssea lighting, the whole shebang. Parameters have been excellent ever since I’ve owned them.
<Good.>
There is also a Tongan Snail,
<Nassarius sp?>
2x Turbo Snails, and 10+/- hermit crabs in there. All fish I have ever put in my tank have been drip acclimated for 2+ hours.
<Quarantine?>
Around mid March I made a purchase of a small flame angel, and a dwarf fuzzy lionfish to make my tank complete.
<That dwarf lion will get rather large for a dwarf, your clowns, damsel as well as your firefish at risk my friend.>
As well with the order I purchased a brown/green brittle starfish (purchased at saltwaterfish.com).
<What species, if it’s genus Ophiarachna they are very predatory.>
The first 2 weeks went great, everybody seemed to get along with the exception to the damsel who would flicker a little every time the angel got to close.
<Normal behavior for a damsel, aggressive little buggers, they are.>
Both the lionfish and angel were eating great. Frozen Ocean nutrition dwarf angel formula for the angel, and believe it or not the lionfish practically came to me weaned on frozen stuff.
<As they should when purchasing them from a reputable LFS.>
With in 3 days he was eating frozen krill soaked in Selcon.
<Good.>
Like I said before I do 3 parameter checks weekly all ammonia and nitrites are at zero, alkalinity is stable, and pH is 8.4. About a week and a half ago, I noticed my angelfish was hiding a lot more than when I had first purchased her. And she had abruptly stopped eating. I tried everything from OC Pellets, to OC seaweed select to krill to Mysis to brine, and got nothing.
<You did mention this animal was subject to some aggression from the damsel, correct?>
Three days had passed without her eating and I was watching her under the rockwork where she ususually <usually> is and my Tongan snail was literally eating away at her right fin, while she was still breathing, and I notice a great deal of her tail fin was gone too.
<If the animal is to the point where she cannot resist a snail attempting to prey on him/her, she is in dire stress….needs to be moved to a quarantine tank immediately.>
So I took her out and quarantined her
<Good.>
and sure enough she just sunk to the bottom, the next day she was dead.
<Sorry to hear that.>
And that's just the beginning to my problem.
<Uh-oh.>
I figured maybe I just got a bum fish, sometimes it happens.
<There is still a reason…..and in this case the animal was acting, eating normally for about a weeks time, correct?>
But just last night I got home from class and my lionfish was extremely pale and breathing really heavy. I checked the parameters of the water and they were the exact same as they had always been. I watched him for a bit and he was very rapid with his motions, almost twitching while swimming. And like the angel fish he just refused to eat. Normally he is at the surface spitting out water to get me to feed him and he'd jump out of the water when his food gets even close to the waters surface. I have a lunar light rigged to the tank and all night he was a mad man swimming back and forth back and forth about as quickly as he could. Which was shocking because in my somewhat new knowledge of lionfish they are docile swimmer, and he had never showed any aggression towards any of the other tank mates. Sure enough the next morning he was dead in the same whole in the rocks that the angel had stayed, I looked closer and I couldn't believe it, my brittle starfish was eating the now dead lionfish. Is that a normal thing to do?
<Completely.>
It had two tentacles rapped around it and it was goin<g> at the thing. I grabbed a set of long tweezers and fished him out to dispose of him, and in the back corner of my tank my blue tailed damsel is on the ground pale and looks to have been chewed on as well. Its like a fish horror film. I have no idea what to think. I did a parameter check today as well and everything keeps coming back the same amonnia-0, nitrites-0, ph8.4, alkalinity 1.8, salinity 1.023.
<Well there is definitely something environmental going on here. Can you have a friend or LFS confirm the test readings? How old is your test kit?>
Are my invertebrates completely turning on my fish.
<Again, this is VERY normal for this species of brittle star.>
So far the two clowns and the firefish seem fine I watched them very closely for about 2 hours and they seem fine, no signs of white or black specks so Am counting out ick.
<Cryptocaryon does not typically kill this fast, no.>
I have no idea what to think. Or could there be something in my tank I don't know is there. What are the sign/symptoms for bristleworms
<Doubtful bristleworms played a role.>
and other hazardous inhabitants?
<See WWM re: disease, see if you can I.D. a specific ailment.>
Also, my brittle star is fairly large sized, he's got about a 5-6inch wingspan. Could he be the cause, it seems all my fish that settle on the substrate seem to be the one who are dying, the clowns swim and bob at the top all night, and firefish actually does hide in a small hole in the rocks.
<What you described sounds environmental, like a water quality issue or some type of disease, though I can’t say what from the information you have provided. Having said that I have no reserve saying that the seastar may be taking advantage of the situation and prettying on the weak fish.>
Just seeing if there is maybe something ive <I’ve.> over looked, or if you have any advice.
<I would get your test results verified by someone else or another test kit.  I would also read through WWM re: disease and perform a large water change.>
Anything at this point would be great, because I am at a loss for ideas or reasons right now. Please help me, Thanks you so much.
<Welcome and Good Luck. Also in the future research all animals prior to adding them and quarantine before addition to display.>>
Curtis Richards
<Adam J.>

Re: Completely Baffled  4/26/07
Crew,
<Michael>
Sorry for the missing information.
<Ok, most was provided>
I use the drip method of acclimation.  About 3 -5 drips per second until water doubles and then I discard half and drip until doubled again.  I forgot to say that at first I float for about 30 minutes to adjust temperature.
<Nothing wrong here…search goes on>
The leather is now about 1/8 the size when introduced.  It seems like flesh is falling off frequently.
<Does it look like the “skin” – transparent film – or the actually flesh – flaked solid>
When I started the tank, upon some very poor information from the LFS, I introduced the 3 clowns and flame angel with BioSpira and about 15 lbs of LR.  After doing some testing, I noticed the Nitrite and Nitrate levels were high because the tank was cycling even with the BioSpira.  I did 10% water changes every other day until I got my water quality up.  Since then, I have not had any problems with water quality.  Even though the tank did cycle, all 4 fish survived.
<Unfortunately you were a victim of poor-information and you will have learned, however it always pays to get more than one opinion on set-up to avoid blatant mis-information>
When the Flame angel went to QT, he started to look better after about 5 days.  Based upon the fact that we saw him nipping at the  
corals, we thought, he was the one that killed the Xenia, Zoanthids and Turbo snail.  So, we were going to keep him in QT until we could find a better home for him because we thought he was just a big bully and was going to eat anything in our tank.  That is where the 10lbs of LR come in.  Knowing the flame eats constantly off the rock and he was back to health, we placed 10 lbs of the rock in the QT tank for I'm to eat off.  We figured it was OK since we were not using any chemicals.
<Ahhh ok, right mentality, however it can be the rock harbouring the parasites etc and this can be transferred to the quarantine in larger quantities than would be present on the fish – effectively a back of population of infection>
The reason why we moved him was that the last batch of corals, the leather and mushroom were on the decline. We only have one QT tank and didn't want the flame angel in with the corals.  So, since the flame angel was back to health, we moved the corals to the  QT tank and flame back to the display.  At this point, the display tank had fish only with LR and the QT tank had 1 Zoanthus, 1 leather and 1 mushroom.  That is when after 12 hours the Flame’s health declined.  Thinking that something is drastically wrong in our display tank, we moved all inhabitant to the same QT with a divider to keep the Flame away from the corals.
<In what way did it deteriorate? Symptoms? May be caused by stress under the cramped conditions – this tank (20gallons) is too small for the Flame>
Now, in the QT tanks even the clowns are swimming more stress free.  What we thought was normal behaviour, now doesn't seem that way anymore.  They used to dart at each other and push each other around.  Now that they seem like they are all good friends.
<Could be good – improved conditions – or bad – becoming lethargic>
To answer the specific questions now.  Before we added the hermit crab and first batch of snails, we just had the 3 clowns, flame angel and LR.  The crab was drip acclimated as per above.
<Ok>
We feed, some Cyclop-eeze flakes every other feeding.  The other feedings, we feed Rod's frozen food with garlic and Selcon.  For the corals, we feed some Phytofeast trying to spot feed them with a dropper. We feed every other day.
For water changes, I do 5% twice a week.
<Good regime and good selection/variety of food>
I am going to a different LFS this afternoon with a water sample to see if my test kit is off.
<Worthy idea>
The only thing that has happened in the tank is that about 2 months ago, our floating thermometer broke in the tank.  The only thing that broke was the glass and the metal weight beads were in the substrate.  I picked all that out and from the research I have done on the website, that shouldn't have affected anything.
I am willing to dump LR and the substrate.  If I have to start with new water and re-cycle the tank, I will.  If need be, I will try to set up separate QT tanks but I don't have enough biological filtration.  And, if my current QT is possibly infected, do I start with straight premixed water?  If I do, will that need to be cycled?
<I would remove the Flame angel to the LFS as it likely that under the conditions it will continue to be susceptible to conditions. I would then continue monitoring all your animals in the quarantine whilst re-testing all display parameters. Do substantial water changes with aged water on both tanks and continue to monitor. If all remains well in the quarantine, re-introduce slowly after all of the display tank’s water has been effectively replaced through changes, if any symptoms are exhibited on re-introduction I predict a resident parasite then it may be worth starting to replace things or emailing back>
I am trying hard to get this correct.  We are in the stages of planning a 150 - 200 gallon tank and we want to know that we have the skills to be successful.
<You will have the skills through unfortunate incidents like this, continue persevering and if you think of anything of note, email back, also if there is anything else you would like clearing up>
I hope this is enough, If you need more, I will provide it.
I hope you can help.
<So do I, keep in contact and we’ll continue working at it>
Michael Svehla
<Good luck, Olly>

Re: Can it be velvet?  4/8/07
Dear WWM,
<Stella>
I'm sure you're very busy, and the holiday season is probably also causing delays.  I just wanted to give you an update since my email from 8 days ago (attached below).
My goby's stomach has basically shriveled.  He had stopped scratching when I first wrote to you, but since then he has been very lethargic and has lost I's say at least 1/3 to maybe 1/2 his body weight.
<Yikes. Bad>
  Still no signs of any white spots, which makes me think it isn't velvet after all.  Up till 2 weeks ago, he was actively fat and ate everything I put in the tank.  Yesterday for the first time since Tue, I saw him eat some Nori and a bit of the frozen Formula 2 I had put in which made me very happy.  The tang and the Gramma are fine and show no signs of anything.  Any thoughts on what the issue might be?
<Mmm... none that aren't posted>
Also, is there any possibility of whatever he has passing on to an invertebrate?
<Not likely>
  My fish are fine (so far) but the Lysmata cleaner shrimp has became fairly lethargic and seems to have lost his appetite!
Best,
Stella
<Something is awry with the environment here... the list of possibilities is vast... the usual S.O.P. for response not... Water changes, availing yourself of chemical filtrants... See WWM re Troubleshooting, Toxic, Environmental Disease of Marines: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm>
P.S.  I know I should have the goby in a QT tank, but NYC apartments just don't have that kind of space unless you make a million $ a year.
<Perhaps a small tank for this purpose in the bathroom? Close to drainage, new water... Bob Fenner>

Ich??   3/18/07
Hi,
<Hello, Brandon here tonight.>
Found your website and was hoping to get some help.  Sorry, I pressed the wrong button in the last email and sent it before I finished writing so I'll have to recap again...
<Itchy trigger finger eh?  Don’t worry, I have done this more than once…>
We are new to aquariums, fish, etc but we recently bought a marine aquarium with live rock, anemones, etc.  The store said that the tank has been stabilized and so we were convinced that it would not be a horrendously difficult task.  Long story short, we lost a lot of fish.
<I wonder what they mean by stabilized…  Any time that you move a group of fish and their environment, you are taking on a HUGE project.>
We started out with about 11, 3 shrimps, and 1 starfish.  We returned one shrimp as it kept going after the clown.  From this original batch, we have the starfish and the clown.  We lost all others.
<I am left wondering what the size of this tank is…>
When we told the store that the fish had died, she said that probably chemicals were released when we transported the tank and to wait about a week before returning to replace the fish.  
<This sounds bogus to me.  I hope that they gave you a refund on the lost fish.  I have seen these pre-setup tanks in stores before for something like $200-$400 before.  I am guessing that the tank is a small one, something like 30 gallons or under.  I never bought one of these because I felt like it was too much of a risk to move it.>
We waited a week and went back for 6 fish so that we had about 9.  We lost most of these fish over the next 2 days and only have 1 from the second batch.
<Again I am wondering what the size of the tank is, but this is too many fish at one time.>
One of the fish that died the second round had white spots and when we mentioned this, the store gave us some bacterial medication.  
<Stress, and Cryptocaryon, anti-bacterial medication would be useless here.>
The fish wasn't acting "weird" otherwise.  Also when we had the second round of deaths, we were told to test the water.  We tested with the NO2 kit - water was the lightest yellow on the chart,
<The color of the NO2 chart means nothing to me.  It would be more helpful if you could send a number.  For illustration, my NO2 test kit rates in colors starting at light blue ranging to a very interesting shade of purple.>
and we tested the water for both salinity and temperature.  Both were within the normal range.
<Again, define “normal” numbers are of more use here, as well as a list of the inhabitants, size of the tank, lighting scheme, and filtration scheme.  You need to be testing for Ammonia (NH3), Nitrite (NO2), and Nitrate (NO3) at a minimum.  Preferably with liquid test kits, the kind that you add drops with.>
Even the store is at a loss.
<Hard to imagine how, they have been such a wealth of information and good advice up to this point.>
The clown had been ok but now has white spots.  It's now been a week since we went for more fish,
<The best thing for you to do at this point is hold off on adding any more fish.  You most likely have Ich more scientifically known as Cryptocaryon irritans.  Any fish that you add will be infected at this point, and could possibly die.>
and 5 days since we lost the majority of them.   Even the two shrimps were lost this last round.
<This is likely due to the anti-bacterial medication, which is not the right kind of medication to begin with.  What did you say the name of this pet store is?  I want to make sure that I never go there.>
Are the white spots Ich?  
<Most likely they are trophonts.  This is but one phase in the Cryptocaryon life cycle.>
We have been doing the medication and have not added anymore fish.  We only have two.
<This medication, as before mentioned isn’t doing anything.  Were I you, I would do some reading here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm.>
My clown is looking very spotty (tiny white spots) but not much else.  The other fish hides in the rocks most of the time so not sure how it is doing.
Any help is appreciated.
<I wish that I could be of more help beyond this, but without more information I am unable to.  Feel free to write again with the information that I outlined above, and I will try to be of further assistance.>
Thanks
<You are most welcome, Brandon.>
Sandra

Re: Bubble Deaths Part II 3/5/07
Thank you, Chris for the information. <Welcome.>  I don’t know why I thought a water change would get rid of the ick, or not be transmitted to the 55 gal once the Cardinal fish was put in there! <Easy to make bad decisions when under stress.>  The stress of losing yet another pet was mind boggling! <Amazing how attached we get to fish.> I have decided to let the 55 gal go fallow for 8 weeks. <Good.> The 10 gal now has the heater from the 55 in it, raising the temperature to 90. <Make sure you have good circulation, the O2 level will drop drastically at this temp.>  It will remain so for 4 weeks.  My question is, during this period, do I continue with the monthly water/filter change in the 55? <I would.>  I have decided to leave the light off, also, as there is enough algae in it. <Even more reason to keep up with the changes, as the algae dies it will release nutrients back into the system and water changes will help remove these.>  I have sand substrate, which gets covered with green spots and requires weekly vacuuming to remove it. <Not uncommon, check for phosphates to see if this is the source of the problem.> Well, I knew the job was tough when I took it! <Gets easier with experience I assure you.>  Your link on the "dip" was extremely helpful and now that I know how to do it, I feel more confident that my future pet(s) will have a better chance of surviving. <Great.>
... Thanks again!!
Brenda Truitt
<Good luck in the future.>
<Chris>

Unexplained Deaths, SW...   2/22/07
I have a 50 gallon tank, 8 months old, 40 lbs live rock, 3 shrimps, sand sifting star, snails, Condy anemone, three percula clownfish, blue tang,
<Needs more room>
red saddleback clownfish, watchman goby, three damsels, royal Gramma Basslet, flame scallop.
<Mmm, hard to keep>
  Diet consists of plankton, flake food, seaweed and live & frozen shrimp.   Everything running smoothly, all of a sudden day after day fish start dying.  Water test at home and local salt aquarium store all good, ever so slight elevation of nitrate,
<Could be post-related to the deaths>
water change, fish keep dying, note no invertebrates are affected.
<A good clue>
Additional water test, Hmmmm no ph registers at all.  The store employee and are bumfoosled.  We even double check her water at the store just to make sure the ph test chemical was working.  But nope my water had no ph.
<...? All liquids have "a" pH>
Which I thought would of killed every invertebrate in the tank, shows what I know.  Added supper buffer for the ph and all tested out fine.
There were no visible signs of parasites, etc.  No velvet, no ick, no luck.  Watch them continuously for any strange signs of behavior etc and there was none.  Finally, lost all fish.  Still have every invertebrate though and the shrimp seems just happy molting.  Please provide any advice that you can give me to test before adding any new fish.  I was really heart broken when they started to die, I did attempt a last ditch effort to move the remaining few fish to my hospital tank but not sure if that was just more stress for them and they didn't last a day.
Amazing the emotional connection you can have with your fishes.  
Laura K.
<Ah yes... well, you apparently have some sort of toxicity that does not effect invertebrates... These are only of a few "types", the most common being something biological... likely either an organism/group growing in/on your live rock or in the substrate... The easiest way to "get around" such situations is to do large water changes, "spiff" up (clean, tune) your skimming, and use chemical filtrants (Activated Carbon, Polyfilter)... and have time go by (about a month)... This should do it here (to allow whatever the toxic source is to "cycle" out... if not, more drastic measures may be called for... the introduction of purposeful predators, competitors (macro-algae), addition of a live sump/refugium... Bob Fenner>

Please Help... Bizarre common names (to RMF), some querulous set-up, feeding...  - 02/21/07
Hi Crew
<Jason>
I have had a fifty gallon salt water tank system going for about 10 months. In this tank I have two Blue Damsel's, one African Clown,
<? I wonder what species this is>
one standard orange Clown, two three striped black and white angels,
<?>
one Coral Beauty, one Arrow Crab, one Hermit Crab and two snails. I haven't use any live rocks or coral yet. I was just getting prepared to start adding some live rock when I notice my African clown acting slightly upset, particularly not actively eating. My Coral Beauty is also distressed. It is not eating at al