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| FAQs on Tank Troubleshooting 9
Related Articles: Tank Troubleshooting Pt
1,
Part 2, The Three Sets
of Factors That Determine Livestock Health/Disease, A
Livestock Treatment System,
Related FAQs: FAQs 1, FAQs
2, FAQs 3, FAQs 4,
FAQs 5, FAQs
6, FAQs
7, FAQs 8,
Agaricia
fragilis, Bonaire.
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Why do I keep losing fish! Reading
5/1/08
Hi everyone,
I have a 75 gallon FOWLR tank about eight weeks old. There's 80 pounds of live
rock, four power heads, an emperor, and a remora pro protein skimmer that I've
had for about two weeks. The emperor 400 i just run with a generic filter pad,
no charcoal and no bio wheels. And I've been dumping out the whole emperor once
a week when i do the water change.
<Mmmm>
I had a SeaClone before that.
<You presently have no skimmer then?>
I have tested my water and brought and samples to several fish stores.
<You should get, use your own kits... water quality samples change with time...>
Nitrates 0, nitrites 0, ph 8.4, ammonia 0, temperature 76, specific gravity 1.23,
<Mmm, no>
and the fish store said my alkalinity is where it needs to be.
I have 45 Nassarius snails, 10 turbo snails, 10 blue leg hermit crabs, 20 red
leg hermit crabs, 2 peppermint shrimp, a serpent starfish, an emerald crab and a
blue neon stripe hermit crab.
Starting about 5 weeks ago i started adding fish.
<... too soon. This tank had only been up some three weeks prior?>
At first it was two maroon clowns, and 6 line wrasse, both died with the week.
then i tried a coral beauty, Dottyback, and another six line wrasse, all lasted
about a week. Then i added a royal Gramma, a lawnmower blenny and a Sebae clown,
same results, except the lawnmower blenny, he jumped out of the tank. Added just
a diamond goby, he jumped out two nights ago. Yesterday, I went out and
purchased a Kole tang and a Dottyback, they seem to be doing fine..
My question is, what am i doing wrong?
<Can't discern from the data presented... but likely this system is "just too
new"... not well-established>
Is it possible to have too many powerheads?
<Not practically, no>
I have 2 of the Hydor stage 4's, one Hydor stage 3, and a maxi-jet 1200 that i
took of the SeaClone.
the fish don't swim around too much, they all did alot
<... no such word>
of hiding.
<This is telling... there is something amiss here... with your water quality...>
I've been feeding them twice a day. My local fish store gave me a variety pack
of frozen foods, with about 20 cubes of 4 different kinds of frozen foods. Each
cube is about the size of a thumb nail. I've been cutting the cubes in half, and
dropping extreme garlic on them while they thaw out. The fish seem to be
eating.. I also put a piece of seaweed under a piece of live rock, and replace
it whenever it gets eaten, about once every three days.
I've been doing a 20% water change every week. I mix my own tap water with prime
water conditioner, a dh buffer, and the salt. I mix in in a bucket and add it
once the salt is dissolved, which is in about ten minutes.
<... you should read: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/index.htm
scroll down to the blue tray... on water...>
I have a 48 inch Corallife compact light with two 50/50 65 watt bulbs, and i run
it about 12 hours a day.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Marc
<Read... Start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/toxictk.htm
and the linked files above... I'd be adding a good skimmer... Bob Fenner> Dead Fish Tell No Tales!
(Mysterious Fish Deaths) 4/16/08
Hello Crew,
<Hey there! Scott F. in tonight!>
I've been in the Reef Hobby for about a year and a half with good success so
far. I've just recently added another tank to my hobby, but with limited
success. My new 125G that I just started running back in the beginning of
January has seen numerous deaths in a short amount of time. Currently I have a
Small Blue Tang, Medium Maroon Clownfish, 4 Chromis, 2 Cardinal Fish, and a
Scooter Blenny. I've had my Skunk Cleaner Shrimp, Purple Firefish, Neon Goby,
and Sixline Wrasse die in the past 45 days. The Firefish and Sixline wrasse were
pretty much torn apart when I found them.
<Good observation, but it's hard to say whether the condition you found them in
was the cause of death or a result of their death. Often times, various
scavengers (ranging from crabs to starfish, to amphipods, and even fishes) will
opportunistically feed off of the remains of dead fishes. If you find the
deceased at all in a reef tank, the remains are often in such condition. My
thinking is that if the deaths were caused by an animal such as a crab or Mantis
Shrimp, you would find little, if anything of the victims. I'd lean towards
other possibilities, such as environmental factors (water chemistry, possible
poisoning, etc.), or perhaps poor quality specimens to begin with. Think about
it: Did the fishes all come from the same source (ie; LFS or e-tailer)? Perhaps
they were poorly handled along the change of custody before you received them.
Maybe they were ill or otherwise improperly collected. Ask your dealer if he/she
has heard about anomalous fish deaths of late. Is there a bully in your
aquarium? Continuous stress can lead to illness, which can spell doom for an
otherwise weakened fish. Again, consider the possibility of some sort of toxin
as well. Consider anything that could cause otherwise seemingly unusual deaths.>
I currently have a 3inch DSB, and 60lbs of live rock. 8 small blue leg hermit
crabs, 1 large Halloween hermit crab, 46G sump with refugium and Ammonia,
Nitrate, Nitrite are at 0. PH was a little low at 8.0 and salinity was 1.025.
What are the possibilities that these causes of death are PH related, Halloween
hermit crab related, or something more elusive like a mantis shrimp? Please help
before I
lose anymore friends. Thanks again.
Frank
<Well, Frank- I would seriously think about the possibility of low quality
stock. How long were your fishes in the aquarium before they died? Did you
utilize a quarantine/acclimation protocol? Were the fishes eating? Did they
display any signs of stress or illness? Unfortunately, it's almost impossible
for me to ascertain what caused these losses from where I sit, but I hope that
I've given you some ideas to consider. Leave no stone unturned in your quest for
the answer! The truth is out there, as they say! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Dead Fish Tell No Tales (cont'd.)
(Mysterious Fish Deaths) 4/24/08
Thanks for your info Scott.
<You're quite welcome! Sorry for the delay in responding to your reply! Been out
for a bit!>
I probably should have been more detailed in the first email, but emotion
probably clouded my full train of thought. These fishes that have died were ones
that I've had between 3-6 months from either one of my smaller tanks or one that
was acclimated and initially quarantined.
<Good to hear!>
All the ones that have died have been in my new 125G anywhere between a couple
of days to a couple of months. My Sixline died within 3 days of adding him to
this tank. Saw him the first day, and found only his head 3 days later. Neon
goby died a month in the 125G where his body was fully intact. My purple
Firefish that passed a couple of days ago......he's been in this tank for over 2
months. A few days before his death, he was never seen except for a couple of
minutes during feeding time in the day and night. Previously, he was always out
in the open. I found him with half his body missing and within a couple of hours
of that, a mucus film secreting from his body before i removed him (which im
guessing means he had just met his doom when i found him). Yesterday morning is
when I found my cleaner shrimp just laying lifeless fully intact on the
substrate. I've had him for about 6 months and he's been in this tank since the
beginning over 4 months ago. His death was a bit disheartening since he was not
shy and enjoyed being hand fed. I'm fairly aware that if a mantis shrimp is
suspect, then usually the bodies are never found intact. Could my Halloween
hermit have done this.
<It is entirely possible that the Hermit could be involved somehow. However, I'm
still thinking that the fishes are being killed by some other factor, and that
the bodies are being torn up after deaths. I do believe that the crab is a
potential issue here, so I would not rule it out as a possible accessory to
their deaths.>
I'm trying to hopefully resolve this before my prize Pink skunk clownfish,
maroon clownfish, and blue tang become causalities. I am also just on the brink
of adding my medium sized powder brown (japonicus) tang from 4 weeks of
quarantine, to my 125G over the weekend. I do not see any other apparent issues
with the tank setup. To reiterate.....Temp hovering between 79-80f, ammonia 0,
nitrite 0, nitrate 0, spg 1.025, and ph is 8.1 now. Protein Skimmer, 46G
refugium. My water source is RO/DI that is aged for a week in a
circulated/heated/oxygenated 32G HD plastic garbage can. With my tank being
still rather new, there is some brown (diatom) algae existent on the back of the
tank. Also some minor detritus on the substrate. I've recently added about 12oz
of Chaeto in my refugium. In the end.....the Mantis theory is the only one that
makes any sense........but who knows better than you guys, so any help or ideas
would be most appreciated.........and some Heinekens on me. Frank
<Well, Frank, this is most puzzling. If the other factors (environmental,
chemical, etc.) are not problematic, and if disease is not an issue, your Mantis
Shrimp theory may very well be a good one. Are you hearing the telltale
"clicking" sounds often apparent at night? These are good clues made by these
animals, or are you catching any glimpses of activity within the rockwork? DO
observe the aquarium very carefully, and read up on the capture of these animals
right here on the WWM site! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
|
Porcupine Puffer... sys.
trouble – 4/12/08
Hi WWM Crew,
<Robbie>
I've been reading the site for the better part of the day and decided to write
you in case I missed something. I've had a porcupine puffer (Puffy)
for about 5 years. He was moved into a 240 gal tank about 6 months ago.
All fish tank includes 3 triggers (Bursa, Picasso, Niger),
<Mmmm>
Foxface, 8 damsels, flame hawk. Last weekend Puffy started hiding in the cave
and stopped coming out for food around Monday or Tuesday this week. Last Sunday
I lost a mono. This past Monday I lost the other 2 monos. I had the water
checked by a Santa Monica Aquarium shop and my "fish guy". Both found the tank
elements to be perfect - except salt was a bit low.
<What brand? How low?>
Odd that the Monos - a brackwater fish died from low salt though.
<Not likely>
The salt was brought back to normal but Puffy did not improve. Today he came out
of his cave and was found floating at the top of one side of the tank. I've
tried feeding him peas (frozen, boiled, then skin removed) but he won't take
them.
<Not surprising>
He had air in him earlier but my fish guy gently held and rubbed the belly and
we did see air come out, about 4 hours ago. About 1 hour ago a ton of white
stuff came shooting out of his mouth. Where he was swimming erratically earlier
he is now "bobbing" in the upper 1/4 of the tank and barely breathing. He
occasionally puffs in some water and eventually lets it out it appears. But he
just "bobs" or sinks a bit and then floats back up. There is no sign of ick or
other external disease.
<Not pathogenic at least...>
However, within the last few hours the edges of his fins have become a milky
white.
<Very bad... stress signs>
On another note, my Foxface is having issues -- although I am more concerned
about Puffy. The Foxface is swimming/bobbing in the same area of the tank. He
usually is down at the bottom picking for poop. Now his mouth is just moving
rapidly as he floats around in the 1/4 top section of the tank. Puffy to me is
the equivalent of a dog to someone else. Its killing me to see him in pain and
unable to do anything. Any idea what is going on?
Thanks
Robbie
<Some form of overt chronic poisoning is my best guess... The usual S.O.P of
massive water change/s, spiffing up your skimmer/ing, the use of chemical
filtrant/s, possibly a look into the use of ozone... Something/s amiss here...
could be electrical, dissolved gas, an endogenous microbial (crash) syndrome...
But changing out water/dilution, better aeration/filtration will definitely
help. The puffer though... is likely not going to make it. Bob Fenner>
As an update to this. Hour and a half later Puff
is now at the bottom of the tank and looks fatter in the back than normal. He is
not using any of
his fins, his mouth is just open, he is darker in color, and he is breathing
slowly.
<We'll see... BobF>
Re: Porcupine Puffer.
- 04/14/08
Hey Bob,
Thanks for the response. He didn't make it :,(
Robbie
<I do hope you are executing against a plan to save the rest of your
livestock. BobF>
Re: Porcupine Puffer.
- 04/14/08
Working on it. The problem is finding the problem. The puffer is the
only one that showed signs of stress. The monos just "dropped dead". I
literally watched one start acting odd and die in an hour. All are
eating, all look and appear healthy. I'm no pro like you, but have had
fish for
about 10 years. Never experienced anything like this. I'm used to seeing
the disease on the fish or see the chemical imbalance when I test. I am
stumped.
<Me too... thus the very general input our first correspondence... I
would at least "complex" your system by adding a DSB, macroalgal
culture, perhaps an ozonizer... B>
Re: Porcupine Puffer. - 04/14/08
Bob,
<Rob>
One thing we (me and fish maintenance guy) noticed fairly recently is
this film on top of the water.
<Bad... need to "wick" off, and provide for removal... from... food/s?>
I have a center column with flow valves on either side. Only the left
side has this "film" on top of the water. Its not dust but its this
light brown color. No idea where its coming from or what is causing it.
Maybe this has something to do with my fish dying?
Robbie
<Very likely so... can prevent oxygen from getting into solution...
would explain much here in terms of who is dying first. Bob Fenner>
|
|
Windex?? -04/11/08
Hi there. You guys, and girls are the best info source there is period.
Just a quick question. I have a 125 gallon reef ready saltwater tank. 140 # live
sand, 100 # live rock. Bio rocker filter in sump, Kent Marine Nautilus Skimmer,
15 watt angstrom uv. I've had it going for almost 2 years, and I feel pretty
knowledgeable in the hobby, but am constantly learning of mistakes that I have
been making. My water quality is always within the parameters. Nitrate usually
gets up to around 10 ppm before my monthly 15-20 % water changes, that I mix
myself using store RO water from the water machine, and instant oceans reef
crystals. PH is constant 8.2 in evening time, temp is steady 75, and specific
gravity is around 1.023. I have a 3- 250 watt metal halide, and 4 96 watt CF
lighting fixture. And glass covers on the top.
My problem is that I am not able to keep more than 5 fish in the tank before
they start dying off one at a time. The only fish that I've had for over a year
now is a medium size Tomato Clownfish. He's superfish... But I've had 2 small
blue tangs last for 3 months, than just die with no signs of Ich, Raccoon
Butterfly, Naso tang, Gobies, (tank is populated with copepods), cleaner shrimp,
feather dusters..... none of which seemed to have any sicknesses. Just all the
sudden stopped being active and hiding, and not eating, then heavy breathing,
then dead within 2 days...
<Do you have any circulation in the tank? You might have low dissolved oxygen.
This is just my "educated" guess, but it sounds like your fish are suffocating.
Clown fish usually stay up at the top of the tank (near the surface of the
water). So if oxygen (gas exchange) is the problem here, that *might* explain
why the clown has survived.>
I take very good care of my tank only to be frustrated by mysterious sudden
deaths. My new though after doing some reading and more research is: Could I be
poisoning my system by using Windex to clean the outside glass of the tank. I
spray carefully on the bottom half of the tank and clean with a paper towel. I
know that if it got directly into the tank that it would not be good, but then I
read that even using Windex in the house could get into the system and cause
trouble, and if so how do I go about ridding the system of any toxins...
<I doubt it's the Windex. The toxic chemical in Windex is ammonia. I would think
you could test for that.>
Is that true, and even with the glass covers that I have sealing the top of my
tank.
<Sealed? Yikes. This might be your problem.>
That's another question, every fish store that I go into they never have glass
tops covering their tanks, it's always open. Does that make a difference.
<Oh yes... it's important for gas exchange (so the animals don't suffocate.>
I know it will cause heat to get trapped inside, but I've got that issue under
control. I am running out of ideas. I know I'm not overstocking it, and I only
add 1 or 2 fish at a time and monitor the parameters during that week.
Please if you could help me in any way... I really love this hobby but am very
frustrated at this point..
<Try taking the lids/covers off your tanks! More water circulation would also
help in more ways than one. Add a good power head or two.>
You guys are a great service to hobbyist all over.
thank you
<De nada and good luck,
Sara M.>
Re: Windex?? - 4-11-08
I have 3 Hagen 802 powerheads running (right, middle, and left on
top), and a mag 7 pump for my overflow returns. I have lots of water
movement on the top. But like I said, the tops have the glass covers. I
was always under the impression that I would have major evaporation
problems,
<Yes, you will, as do all marine aquarists.>
(I'm currently adding 5 gallons of RO a week)
<Haha. For a tank this size, it's not unusual to lose up to 5g/day!>
and bad salt creep issues on my light and tank.
<There are things you can do to help prevent this. In fact, Coralife
makes an anti-salt creep spray that (much to my surprise) actually seems
to work (in my experience with it). It's called Salt Creep Eliminator.>
Should I add a small air pump, with an air stone.
<This would be a sure fire way to add to your salt creep problems
without helping with gas exchange all that much.>
I've never seen a saltwater tank with one.
<Please consider taking the lids off your tanks. There's a good reason
you never see marine tanks with them (except maybe on nano tanks). Yes,
you will have a lot of evaporation. But that's just one of the things we
all have to deal with.>
Thanks for the ideas. Let me know if you think the tops are part of my
problem,
<Yes, I do... especially if they completely seal off the tops of the
tanks.>
and if I would have problems with my concerns.
Thank you
Aaron
<De nada,
Sara M.>
Re: Windex?? -04/11/08
I just tested my water with a red sea oxygen test kit, and came up
with 7 ppm oxygen. This was from the top of the tank with the lights
being on for
a few hours. What is the normal oxygen level supposed to be, and does it
matter if I get the water sample from the top of the tank or
middle/bottom, or with the lights on or off.
<5-6ppm is optimal for fish health, but these test kits don't tell you
much (if anything) about your real dissolved oxygen levels. Even just
the act of taking the test potentially changes the oxygen content of the
sample. Yes, both depth and light would matter too.>
Thank you for the help
Aaron
<Best,
Sara M.> Re:
Windex?? -04/13/08
I retook the test with the lights being out for 12 hours and from the lower
half of the tank and had the same results. Am I thinking right by thinking
that with me only having one clownfish, one cleaner shrimp, and several small
snails and crabs, that the O2 level is ok now but when I get 3, 4, or
5 more fishes in there that it may become a problem then since more O2 is being
used by the additional fish.
<Or, the additional fish are producing more CO2. Also, again, I don't think
those test kits are very telling of actual O2 levels.>
If that was an issue could I use my say an air pump in my sump and add more
oxygen that way, along with the power heads in my tank.
<::shrug:: I don't think that will help enough, but you can try it.>
Also could I take off one of the three lids, or would I need to remove all three
to achieve the optimal gas exchange.
<Well, removing one would be better than not removing any. Or, you could take a
portion off each lid.>
I am just concerned with the extra evaporation, and Jumpers....
<I understand. But these are things everyone deals with. You can use eggcrate to
prevent jumpers. The evaporation is harder to control. But if you have your own
RO/DI unit, then you should have plenty of top off water on hand.>
Thank you
Aaron
<De nada,
Sara M.> |
Near death... 03/26/2008
So I have had my tank set up and running with no problems for 3 months now.
I've battled the ammonia levels in the beginning but everything has been doing
fine. I have a 55 gallon tank with a Cascade 1000 filter, Remora Aqua C and
about 15 lbs of live rock. I have 2 yellow belly damsels, 2 clarkii clowns, 1
lawnmower blenny and a yellow/lemon wrasse. Oh and also a hermit crab and a
turbo snail. Last night after I got home I fed them and then about an hour later
looked in the tank and the clowns were laying on the bottom hardly moving and
the LMB looked ill and not moving about like his normal self, was able to remove
all fish with no chasing around the tank. I lost one damsel fish =( but I moved
them to a smaller tank with store bought prepared saltwater, that I keep in case
of emergencies.
<<Shame to hear>>
I also had to raise the temp in the smaller tank so I added a little water from
the main tank and a few cups of hot tap water.
<<Please don't add hot tap water to a tank, this can be very dangerous to the
fish. Tank should be raised slowly, under normal conditions>>
They didn't really move much last night after doing that I was pretty sure
they'd all be dead this morning but they seem to be just fine now. Except they
don't like being in the 15 gallon tank with no hiding spots.
<<Sounds fair>>
I ran all my test (Calcium, Alk, PH, Nitrate, Nitrite, ammonia) on the main tank
this morning and everything seems to be in tact the only thing that was a little
high was the Nitrite .2 mg/l. What could cause such a disaster? I did forget to
move my snail but he is still in the main tank alive and fine. I also noticed
that the little copepod guys were moving slower then normal and there are a few
that died off but I do still see them in the tank moving around. Any ideas,
suggestions?
<<Before moving back, i suggest getting a second opinion on your water tests.
Something does not sound correct with the fish's responses in the main display
tank...yet they have come around fine in the quarantine. Any additives been
used on the display tank? any foreign objects been accidentally dropped in
there?>>
Should I attempt to move them back I really don't want any harm to come to them.
<<As i mentioned above, i would get a second opinion on the water tests, maybe a
LFS>>
Help me please. Thanks, Nicki
<<Thanks for the questions, hope this helps. A Nixon>>
SW-Tank Disaster, See the
positive…learn from it 3-23-2008
Hi guys,
<<Hello from Adam J on the graveyard shift.>>
Please help we are devastated.
<<I’m awake and ready.>>
We went away for two days to visit the folks and came back and our 200 litre
saltwater aquarium had been drained of 2/3'rds of it's water!
<<How’d that happen?>>
The protein skimmer had malfunctioned and drained the water.
<<In what manner?>>
Half of the coral had been exposed for what we can only assume was a total of
36-48 hours and the lights would have been on for a total of about 10 hours.
<<Depending on the species it may not be a complete loss. I would
fragment/remove the dead/decomposing tissue to avoid further contamination.>>
We had a bit of an algae build up around the sides but nothing that was major.
<<Likely from the stagnant water exposed to the lighting.>>
To top it off we ran out of water to fill it back up or perform a water change
and cant get any delivered for two days (public holiday).
<<That is not good…is not possible to mix your own. You may want to learn how in
event of an emergency…or another that is…And while I do not know anything about
your source water, I prefer to mix my own for consistency issues alone.>>
We have enough to fill the tank and run the external canister filter,
undergravel filters
<<Is the canister filter and undergravel filter your normal/primary means of
filtration? If so I would consider a different approach, bother can do more harm
than good…many marine aquarists dub them “nitrate factories.” Read WWM for more
on this and alternatives.>>
but our chiller pump burned out so we have no chiller.
<<Bags of floating ice/water bottles…fans blowing across the surface might be
able to off set any negative issues regarding the temperature for a day or two
until you can set it back up.>>
Our main concern is that the water will be concentrated with decaying matter and
we don't know what to expect.
<<If you have any question about the state of your cnidarians I would remove
them immediately to save the others.>>
Obviously we will perform 50% water change as soon as possible
<<Followed by other large changes and some fresh carbon I hope.>>
and remove any coral that we are sure are dead, but only after we are sure :(
<<I wouldn’t wait to long to pull the proverbial trigger when removing the
coral. I know this is emotional but you may need to sacrifice some of the
questionable pieces to save the others.>>
We were hoping you could let us know whether we should remove anything ASAP
<<Judging from the state of your tank and your current ability to repair it, I
would not wait until obvious decay sets in to remove the cnidarians, you will
put your other livestock at risk.>>
or add anything in the meantime or near future.
<<Lots of large water change, carbon and a PolyFilter (change it out don’t leave
it in.>>
Because we can't take delivery of sea water is it ok to mix bagged salt water
(the stuff you make yourself) with the water we already have in the tank?
<<Yes please do mix some and begin changing.>>
Further will the algae and any other decayed matter cause exceptional harm to
the tank.
<If not augmented with water changes, then yes.>>
Also our larger maroon clown of the pair has developed some white, fleshy spots
on her nose and dorsal fin but the other fish seem fine.
<<They are reacting negatively to the poor water condition. It needs to be
corrected ASAP, water changes, and aeration.>>
The saddest part is we were about to take delivery of an entire, new 500 litre
system this week and prepare it to transfer our coral and fish within the month
but it looks as if we may have lost half our coral.
<<I’m sorry to hear that but this may serve some greater purpose. It will help
you to identify problems in this system (which there are) and avoid them with
your new system.>>
Any info would be greatly appreciated or even direction to any relevant
material.
<<Review WWM re: plumbing and filtration of SW aquaria.>>
Our tank is our life and we are absolutely distraught.
Cheers guys, can't wait for your response.
<<Good luck, Adam J.>>
Can't keep fish alive - help!
3/17/08
Hello WWM Crew!
I have been reading your awesome site since before I got my first saltwater tank
about a year ago, and I have found every question I've had already had an answer
posted, until now. I recently purchased a used 75 gallon wave-front aquarium.
The previous owner had used a deep sand bed successfully for a reef in this
tank, so I followed his set-up exactly as he described. This includes the use of
a deep sand bed (DSB) and plenum. I have approximately 5 1/2 inches of aragonite
over the plenum. Then I have a CPR Bak-Pak 2 with bio bale. I have a heater and
am keeping the tank at about 78-80 degrees. I also have a Zoomed PS-40
powerhead. I have two hoods for lighting. One hood contains two 40 watt Marine
Glo actinic 48 inch bulbs. The other hood contains two 25 watt 10,000 K bulbs.
All bulbs are new. Then
I added about 50 lbs of live rock, which is all I can afford at the moment. I
constructed a PVC frame for the rock.
<And for filtration? ...any sump or skimmer?>
I allowed the tank to cycle for about 3 weeks, doing frequent testing of water
chemicals. It seemed the tank had cycled. My first animal in the tank was a
piece of Porites with a colony of Christmas Tree Worms from my old (smaller)
tank. They seemed to acclimate fine. The
rock that I added came heavily encrusted with sponges and coralline algae and I
did not seem to experience much of a die-off. The rock and its inhabitants
seemed healthy after loosing some sponge, which has since started growing back.
I observed hitchhiker bristle worms, little amphipods, spaghetti worms. Life
appeared to be taking off. Then I added my arrow crab. After just a few days, I
got to watch it molt, which was pretty cool. All was well. Then I noticed what I
have identified through the help of your posts and pictures as an aiptasia.
Reading that one seldom has "an" aiptasia, and being that it was on a
particularly beautiful rock that I didn't want to scrub down, I instead opted to
get two peppermint shrimp. They appear to be doing quite well, though the
aiptasia remains uneaten.
<Yes, unfortunately not all peppermint shrimp eat aiptasia. There's no way to
know if any one or two shrimp will eat them, so it's a gamble.>
My next move was to add my False Percula, also from my old tank. It was doing
fine. Then I made an impulse buy at my LFS and bought a carpet anemone without
having researched the creature until I returned home.
<bad idea>
I have identified the carpet anemone as a "Sun Anemone", Stichodactyla
helianthus. The False Percula took to it instantly and seems to be quite in love
with this anemone. All still seemed well, though I keep coming back to this
anemone as a possible source for the following
problems. After the arrow crab, peppermint shrimps, Christmas tree worms, false
percula, and anemone, I bought my first exciting fish, a Coral Beauty Angel. It
seemed well for 36 hours, then I found it doing the side-stroke. It quickly
died. No apparent outward sign of disease or injury. I was depressed, so I
backed down to something smaller (and cheaper), and got 3 green chromis fish.
That same day, I also bought a frag of toadstool coral. Within 24 hours, one
chromis fish was dead. Again, the chromis did not have any outward signs of
injury/illness. I took some long-handled pincers and placed the dead chromis in
the carpet anemone. The anemone proceeded to eat the fish, which I thought was
at least keeping it's death from going to waste. It was quite incredible to
watch. Then about 15 minutes
after the anemone had eaten the fish, I found the fish had been regurgitated
in its entirety.
<not unusual>
I removed the fish for a proper "burial at sea". The next day, my other two
chromis fish were missing, never to be seen.
<likely dead>
I should also mention that the same day as my first chromis died, I noticed the
filaments on the toadstool coral were retracted. For two days, I did not see the
coral opening. I decided to take the toadstool coral out and place it in my old
tank. It now is "open"
and seems fine.
Water Chemistry since I have tried adding fish: I have been continually checking
my water chemistry during all of this. In particular, I have checked the
following: PH, Calcium, Alkalinity, Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, and Specific
Gravity. Specific Gravity has been a little low at 1.021 to 1.022. PH 8.4.
Ammonia has crept up at one point to .025 ppm,
<This should never happen. After the initial cycle, you should never have
ammonia in your tank. You didn't let your tank completely cycle. It often takes
more than 3 weeks (especially without any external filtration or skimming).
Maybe this will help:
http://www.asira.org/cycling>
which I followed with a water change and it returned to the "zero" range.
Nitrate and Nitrite have tested consistently in the "zero" range. Calcium was
low at about 380 ppm,
with alkalinity correspondingly on the lower side.
<This is not why your fish died.>
Since the fish have died, I have added two treatments of SeaChem's Reef Complete
Calcium supplement at the dose prescribed for "beginners", which is what I
consider myself. I followed the Seachem directions and on alternate days added
two treatments of Reef Carbonate for the alkalinity. I am going to test both
again tomorrow.
So ultimately, my question is: Do you have any suggestions as to why I have lost
my Coral Beauty Angel and three Green Chromis fish when the arrow crab,
peppermint shrimp, false Perc, Christmas tree worms, and (the bad buy) carpet
anemone seem to be doing fine?
<They're doing fine for now.>
Is there something else I should be checking for in my water? I keep wanting to
blame
the carpet anemone. And do you think any of this is related to the apparent
stress to the toadstool coral? I forgot to mention I also have some star polyps
and orange Zoanthids, which I placed completely away from the toadstool coral
and away from the carpet anemone and the star polyps and Zoanthids appear to be
OK. My local guru tells me "sometimes fish die" and tries to steer me back to
buy some more corals, since I don't seem to be killing those off. Any
thoughts/suggestions/help would be immensely appreciated.
<Patience. You're trying to do too much too fast. You also need something for
filtration other than your live rock and sand (which isn't even truly
established yet). Please see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
And if you haven't already, please read Mr. Fenner's The Conscientious Marine
Aquarist.
Best,
Sara M.>
Flame Angel FISH issue...
poor English, no reading... 2/25/08
I have a question regarding a new fish I have purchased at my local pet
store. it was fine looking in the store... I have had it for a week and
everything was looking fine. He did first of all get picked on by my Yellow
Tang. but that has stopped after the first day. Also was picked on by my Naso
Tang. I also have a Coral Beauty who just swims fast around him. after a day of
that the fish leave him alone. but now the Flame angel from time to time chases
my coral beauty. nothing to aggravation though. I have a 125 gallon tank and
there is plenty of live rock to hide in.
<... the beginnings of sentences are capitalized...>
anyways that is just some background. my issue it that I have noticed that the
flame angel fish is showing white mucus on its body. so I put in some scale
defender.
<...>
I am already adding an amino acid additive after each water change I do. I
perform a 20-30gallon water change weekly. (the reason is because my nitrates
were high
<How high is high?>
and was told to do more than the 15gallons I was doing before.) anyways the
levels
are perfect 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, the ph was around 8.2 I have a ph
balancer that keeps it at 8.3...also the temp is a bit high at 80-82.. I have
just noticed that and have put it back down. and turned off the lights so the
temp can equal out to a better degree around 78.. no other fish have seen signs
of this condition.....I have had one arrow crab just kick the bucket last night.
don't know if it is related or not. it maybe because of the temp in the tank or
just the age of the arrow crab.
<... the so-called med.s>
I am leaning more towards the later. also the salinity is consistently around
1.020 to 1.022..
<Too low...>
any help would be appreciate. I don't want this to effect the livelihood of the
rest of the inhabitants in my tank. everyone is very healthy..
1- yellow tang
1- coral beauty
1- flame angel
2- peppermint cleaner shrimps
4- yellow tailed damsels (mating)
2- clown fish (mating)
1- purple tip anemone.............
flame angel hangs near him alot
<No such word>
may be do to the fact that I have a power head close by the anemone.
<...>
and the flame is just looking for the current flow..
2- regular blue damsels
1- Naso tang
cleaner crabs (about 30)
live rock with sponge growing on it.. 2 feather dusters.
side note:
I put in a variety of seaweed daily.. whenever the seaweed is gone I make sure
there is some there.. I use purple, green and brown seaweed chips. also put in
the weeds that the tangs like to eat in the wild..(i can remember the name of
the weeds. but it is about 6 dollars for a handful which is gone in about 3
weeks or so). also I feed the tank stage 2(garlic) flakes and stage 2 pellets.
they love it. I hand feed the anemone a piece of shrimp and the cleaner shrimps
a piece of shrimp every 3rd day. once a week I put in myks shrimp.
I see the flame angel eat the flakes and pellets but never meaty foods. as long
as he is eating something I am ok with that. it may just not be his thing to eat
meet yet. he looks to me to be about close to fully grown as well.
thanks for any quick advice you can give me so I can fix this before it creates
a huge mess for others in the tank.. I just put in some medicine for this
problem. I am using (Probiotic marine formula) I was told it is good to use
because it will not harm other in the tank..
Brian
<... You, we need to "go back" a bunch of steps... For one, for you to learn the
value of quarantine... for two, how to use the search tool, indices on WWM...
Your spg. is too low for one... You may have a parasite at play... but can't
tell discernibly from the data presented... The pic you sent along... this
product won't work... there are no such things as reef-safe and effective
protozoacides... All of this is posted/archived on WWM... Go there, read... and
write back with specific issues if you still have them. Bob Fenner>
Question about fish
fatalities 02/19/2008
Thank you for the informative resource. It's been a big help to us as we
launched our first aquarium (a 75-gallon saltwater tank with live rock, a
protein skimmer, and a canister filter which we clean weekly)
<<Thank you...Andrew here today>>
Unfortunately, we seem to have a really brown thumb.
:-( The majority of the times we have tried to introduce new fish to the tank,
they have died. This is despite the fact that our water quality seems to be
perfect (both in home testing and when they test it at the LFS.) Also, the fish
that die do not appear to be ill. There are none of the outward signs of disease
that I have seen pictures of online, and also the fish who were already in the
tank do not die after a newcomer does, so they're not infecting each other.
I believe the specific chronology over the course of the past 9 months has gone
something like this (once the initial cycling was done):
*add two scissortail dartfish and one small fairy wrasse
*one dartfish dies (this was the non-mysterious death-- our tank wasn't covered
tightly enough and it jumped)
*add three more scissortail dartfish
*one of the new dartfish dies
*add small mimic tang
*mimic tang dies
*add Rainford goby
*Rainford goby dies
*add sand goby
*add two neon gobies
*both neon gobies die
*add two Banggai Cardinalfish
*one Cardinalfish dies
*add two more Banggai Cardinalfish
*one of them dies
<<WOW...Eeeesh...that's a lot of fatalities>>
Is this even vaguely within the realm of normal for new aquarium keepers, or are
we really horrid at this?
<<Something is certainly amiss here. Do you acclimate fish to your tank? If you
do, what is your detailed method>>
The fish don't show any signs of stress or aggression that I'm able to discern--
the fairy wrasse, dartfish and sand goby do not harass newcomers, and all the
new fish have eaten upon arriving (we feed them Spirulina-enriched brine
shrimp.) Our LFS seems surprised at our bad luck. They always refund our money,
but I can see the other fish from the same batch we bought our Cardinalfish from
still swimming around alive at the store, so clearly they weren't just a bad
batch of fish--it was being transferred into our tank that did them in.
It's starting to become very depressing. Are we making poor fish choices? Is
fish mortality in early tanks always rather high and we're just having a run of
bad luck? Are we doing something wrong that our LFS just hasn't been able to put
a finger on yet?
<<My first thoughts are a couple of things. A potential problem with your
acclimatizing techniques (or maybe lack of) or a predator in the tank. Are the
dead fish showing any signs or marks that could point towards a predator? What
are your exact water parameters for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, Temp and
salinity/sg???>>
Thanks for any light you can shed. Laura
<<Thanks for the questions. A Nixon>>
help with
fish death... SW mystery losses 2/17/08
Hello Crew,
<Michael>
It has been a couple years since I last asked a question and have
recently moved and setup a new system. I need your help. I thought I was
doing it right this time. I setup a 75 gallon tank with a deep sand bed
(5") and 100lbs of live rock. I am running 260 watts of PC lighting and
am using it as a FOWLR tank. I am using a euro reef skimmer as my main
filtration in the sump. I waited 3 months to add fish to this setup.
Here is what happened.
I added one 3" long puffer fish
<Mmm, what species?>
who began eating right away. I have been monitoring water quality daily
and absolutely all levels are zeroed out including phosphate. The fish
acted normal being social and feeding. One month later he developed some
signs of ich... but mind you just a bit on the fins. His behavior and
feeding remained unchanged so I decided to monitor water conditions and
make sure everything was stable and hope for the best. One day I simply
found him dead with white patches on his body. I then allowed the tank
to run with no light on at all for 3 months and added a purple goby.
<The fish shown? This is a Malacanthid... a sand tilefish. Not a goby>
The exact same thing happened with a few white spots showing up, still
good feeding behavior and then his death and seeing large white patches
on his body.
Something that may help diagnostics is that there has been one other
living organism in the tank which is a very small 5" round California
stingray
<This is a cold water animal... not suitable for a tropical tank>
who pretty much hangs out and never bothers a sole.
<Good pun>
He continues to eat well and has been completely unaffected by these
happenings. My concern is that I don't want to have to break my tank
completely down, get rid of all the sand, put the live rock in a bucket
for 6 months to run fallow and start all over again coppering all fish
before they enter the tank but I fear this is the only answer. Please
help as I am concerned any fish I put in this tank is going to die now.
I have attached a postmortem hoping it will aid in treatment of any
other fish that may ever develop this should it happen again. BTW, in
the photo the stomach looks concave but that is because he was resting
on a rock when he died not due to lack of nutrition. Thank you again for
being there as a terrific resource.
this is ok to post publicly.
Mike
West Palm Beach, Florida
<Can't do much but hint at possible etiologies here... there may be
"something" inorganically "wrong" with the water, or a possible pathogen
(protozoan or infectious) at play... or even some legacy of exudate from
the puffer... that is not affecting the ray. But the Ca. ray does need
to go elsewhere... I might consider "nuking" the system (bleaching, or
formaldehyde poisoning), draining, re-filling, re-cycling... to discount
all, before trying restocking. Bob Fenner> |
|
 |
Reef Tank Loss Mystery
2-11-08
We are new to the salt tank but have been adopted by a local specialist, so
she talks and says, she has taught us to be patient and slowly introduce each
fish based on compatibility etc. We have gotten really good at the water
stability. Consistent Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0-10 range PH bounces a
little between 7.9 and 8-3.; 55 gallon, light 8-10 hours
<You may want to add some buffer if you want to keep your Ph at a more constant
level. 8.1 – 8.3 is the level you want. Check out this valuable information on
PH here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm; >
Here is what we have introduced over the months leading to our recent surprise
losses:
Cleanup Crew Snail's and crabs
2 Yellowfin Blue Damsels
2 Percula Clowns
1 Longnose Hawkfish
1 Zebra dart Goby
1 White Sand Star
1 Banded Coral Shrimp
1 Black Brittle Star (and brittle he is)
All above have been slowly introduced, and everything was great through December
and January
10 days ago we added a Bicolor, dead in 24 hours. Our supplier keeps the fish
for 3-5 days and makes sure they are eating and healthy before we take
possession.
<That is good. Do you witness these fish eat before you take them as well?>
We rechecked water, only issue was PH 7.8, spent the next week to ten days
buffering PH until 8.3 consistent.
<Keep an eye on that Ph and you may need to add more buffer to keep it level.>
Introduced Chocolate Surgeon and a Dwarf Lion. Within 48 hours, Longnose Hawk,
Surgeon and Banded Coral all dead. My question: Is the Lion guilty?
<No I don’t think so.>
We were assured the lion would only kill if fish were small enough to eat or
bite.
<This is true.>
The lion is about 3 inches in body, Banded Coral was large and Longnose was
about 4.5 inches.
I am at a loss. Both the Banded and the Longnose have been in the tank for at
least 5-6 weeks and doing just fine.
<When was the last time you tested the water in your tank? How often do you do
water changes? The most aggressive of these fish other than the lion would be
the damsel fish. Let may be a strange question but have you found the carcasses
of these fish or are they just disappearing? This may be a silent predator.
–Yunachin>
Re: Recent Reef tank loss. Reef
Tank Mystery 2/13/08
<Yunachin here- Please bear with me as I am having PC troubles.>
Thanks for the quick reply. In response to your questions and comments. We are
now diligently checking PH for 8.3. I have not placed the due importance on that
measurement. Our supplier insists on us seeing the fish
eat frozen before we take possession. <That is good to hear. Some places do not
do that.>
We do 10% water changes every 10-14 days. It sounds like we need to move this to
every 7 days.<Or up the percentage of water you are taking out bi-weekly.>I
visited with
our supplier today and came away with more questions but positive support
nonetheless. She is suggesting our exterior cleaning product might be the
culprit. My son has taken on the chore of making sure the glass is clean on the
outside. He uses Windex and it of course sprays in a way some elements could get
in the tank, not directly though.<This is not good.> He has also used Vinegar on
a rag to wipe away stains on the black plastic lids. Last but not least, twice
in the days before the fish succumbed he used a pair of "pliers" to insert and
squish the frozen foods. Don't laugh, I am serious. And to add insult to injury,
he soaked the pliers in Simple Green after each feeding.
Smoking Gun? <Yes, this would transfer poisons into the tank definitely. You can
purchase feeding tongs from your LFS, and to clean them, rinse them in hot
water.> We are now going to perform 1 water change today and another
this weekend, then take a sample for lab testing. Once we are sure we are stable
we will proceed with caution. Suggestions on exterior cleaning products would be
great.
<Some isopropyl alcohol on a bit of paper towel has worked for me, just use very
little at a time.>
What are your thoughts about our resources observations?
<I think the chemicals can definitely be the factor here.>
Thanks for all your help. Hard lesson learned if we in fact have identified the
problem. My son is 9 years old and actually came forward with the revelation
about the cleaning products. Smart kid. <It's good he is so honest. We all make
mistakes in this hobby it is just our responsibility to correct them. Have a
fantastic day. --Yunachin>
|
Tank problem, all fish died.
Mysterious Fish Deaths 2-11-08
Hi,
<Yunachin here!>
I was wondering if you could possibly help me.
<Possibly.>
We have a 72 gallon saltwater tank that has been running for over 6 months now
and we had a Kole Tang and two Clownfish in it. The Kole Tang has had a spot on
its side for some time that we attributed to getting nipped by a blue damsel
that we had when we got him (we since got rid of the blue damsel). The spot did
get worse, but he still was active and we were told it may have been a vitamin
deficiency and not from being nipped.
<Describe this spot to me if you will.>
Two days ago, my husband purchased a copper band butterfly and a blood shrimp.
After he added them he did a water change as he normally does every 4-6 weeks.
<Water changes should be done every two weeks at least.>
All the levels at that point were fine. Today, the fish were okay at 3 p.m. and
then by 6 p.m., the tank became so cloudy
<What color?>
that I could barely see anything in it and the Kole tang and the butterfly had
died, and within an hour later the two clownfish had died as well. Right now,
the only thing alive is the blood shrimp, and I doubt he'll last much longer. I
just checked the levels, and everything seems to be within normal limits:
the ph is 7.4,
<too low, you need it at 8.1-8.3>
the ammonia is 0.25, the nitrate is 10, and the nitrate is 0,
<Which one is the NitrIte?>
and the specific gravity is 1.026
<If you don’t have coral 1.021-1.023 would be ideal.>
and 35 ppt. Oh, we also have about 50 lbs. of live rock. Help!!! I don't know
what caused this to happen. Any advice will be appreciated.
<Does your husband heat the water before he changes it? Does he use tap or R/O
water? Did he add any chemicals to the water? Does he use a python to siphon the
substrate? Let me know. –Yunachin>
Charlene Donovan
Re: Mysterious Fish Deaths
2-12-08
Hi Yunachin,
<Good Afternoon.>
Thanks for your quick response.
<Thank you.>
The spot on the Kole Tang (I have a picture, but it is too big to send according
the guidelines) was a whitish spot, which did get larger over time. It was on
his side towards the back, not near his head. We looked up diseases, and
unfortunately none seemed to look like what he had wrong with him. Recently, it
was the size of a nickel and it was a patch that didn't seem to bother him.
Also, his fins, just recently looked frayed.
<It sounded like a bacterial infection. Mostly caused by improper water changes
and stress.>
When the tank became cloudy, it looked like milk.
<Again too much fish waste and other “bad” materials.”
This am, however, the tank is back to "normal" color, and the last of the fish,
the blood shrimp is now gone as well. We do not have any coral in the tank, just
the live rock. My husband does not heat the water before he puts it in.
<Not good at all. Not adding the same temperature water to the tank will put
stress on the fish and can cause them to go into shock. Most likely I am
assuming the water was at your room temperature, 72 degrees I am guessing, but
your average reef tank temperature is anywhere from 79-82 degrees usually. Even
something as little as a 10 degrees can make a big difference.>
He does use a stress coat and a water conditioner. He uses tap water and adds
the salt.
<In the future, heat the water after the salt is added and wait until it is at a
consistent temperature before adding it to the tank.>
He does not use a python to siphon the substrate.
<Go to your LFS and get one. You will be glad you did. When you do not siphon
out your substrate, fish waste, leftover food, and other bad materials settle
into it. Over time these things can develop into anaerobic (toxic) pockets that
build up and when released can kill your entire tank inhabitants, which is what
I think caused all of these deaths. I recommend reading more about water changes
here on the site: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water.htm;>
We do have a protein skimmer, if that matters.
Oh sorry, the nitrate is 10 and the nitrite was 0. I don't know if those levels
became skewed after the fish died, because those were the levels after the fish
died last night.
<The ammonia and nitrate levels show that there was some waste present in your
system. I recommend getting a python, giving that substrate a good cleaning, do
a couple of heavy duty water changes (30% daily for at least a week) Then get on
a bi-monthly water change schedule, and don’t worry, once on a schedule this
whole process of water changing and siphoning will take about 20 minutes of your
time and leave you with a beautiful tank and very happy fish.>
Thanks again for your help!
<You are welcome. Hang in there! –Yunachin>
Charlene
|
Problems, fish, anemone...
livestock losses subsequent to upgrade/move 12/28/07
Hello Crew,
I've been involved in the hobby for over a year now and it all started with a 55
gallon salt tank with a stand and a Fluval 305. I kept a fairly healthy tank
considering I wasn' running R/O water, a sump and sufficient filtration. I
dreamed of upgrading for the last six months and finally threw down on a 125
with a 2400 gph Quiet One pump, Pacific Coast 3000 protein skimmer, 35 gallon
sump, 1100 Seio. After acclimation and level readings, I transferred all my
livestock from the 55 over to the 125. I drip acclimated for about 3 hours, and
within days ended up losing the following;
1 Sixline wrasse
3 Chromis
1 Firefish goby
1 false percula clown
2 bubble tip anemones
<Yikes! Something very amiss here>
So I checked my levels again, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite, 8 degrees KH, 0
Phosphate, 1.023 salinity, calcium 430, Alk 8.2-8.4, ph is perfect also. I
proceeded to add a cleanup crew. I lost about 50 hermits with a day, and about 2
turbo snails a week since then. Nassarius snails are still going strong though.
Since then I tried to replace my Sixline wrasse 4x's and it had died within a
day or two. I've tried Chromis 5x's and they've all died. I tried pajama
cardinals 4x's and they all lasted about a day. The only fish that has survived
all this is my Scribbled Rabbitfish.
<A good clue...>
I do weekly water changes of 10% and measure all my levels weekly. My old tank
had some hair algae growing on a few rocks, so I got a sea hare to clean in up.
It is back with a vengeance after about 2 weeks and now there are tiny bubbles
stuck on the rocks and back glass everywhere. I am afraid to add anything else
to my tank in fear of it dying and am about ready to quit the hobby
entirely out of frustration and feeling like an executioner.
<Patience here>
Do you have any ideas of what I can try before I sell everything?
<Yes>
My acclimation techniques have been everything from 1- 3 hour drip acclimation
to a simple float for 20 min.s to float and add every 15 minutes. Yet everything
dies, but for some reason my Rabbitfish and Nassarius refuse to die and look
really healthy. My Kenya tree went from looking like beautiful and large to a
limp shrunken French fry. Also put a bubble tip anemone in about a week ago and
it just looks bloated and ready to cash it in.
ready to turn my tank into a coffin
Alan
<Some overt poisoning has occurred that left some of the stock unscathed...
Which leads me to speculate the source was not inorganic (e.g. a metal from
somewhere), nor a transient organic... that would have taken all out. It is
likely that either the Siganid itself OR some negative interaction twixt the
Cnidarians is/was at work here... There are ways to "test" for this... But as to
a "cure"... I would add a unit or two of PolyFilter, about a pound of GAC (like
Tempura, two units) in your filter flow path... and wait for about two weeks
before trying a new small test organism, perhaps a damsel. See WWM re
Rabbitfish, and Cnidarian Compatibility... and don't lose faith... I would have
been advised that you set-up the new tank, and exercise a longish systematic
approach to moving your livestock... to avoid this sort of possible/potential
result/consequence... But, you are where you are now... Please begin reading
here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcomp5.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: More ideas on tank
devastation 12/31/07
You had mentioned the idea of a possible toxin in my tank being a type of
metal poisoning. Would adding make up water via aluminum mixing bowl be a bad
idea?
<Possibly... more for the soap/cleaner possible contamination than the small
short-term metal addition>
This never occurred to me because it is new and clean but maybe I should switch
to a plastic type?
thanks~ Alan
<I would... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/index.htm
the sixth tray down on water... Bob Fenner>
Mysterious deaths... SW
11/16/07
Crew,
<Bryan>
I have held out long enough; I have searched and searched for the cause of a
majority of my fish dying. I have searched your web site inside and out and talk
to several people, but no one seems to have a answer. I even tried the forum,
but, and not to discredit anyone, but the responses were more or less
elementary. So here is the scope. The tank is a 150gal with sump and skimmer.
Between the return pump and powerheads I have a flow rate around 2,500gph.
Corals, inverts, and mollusks etc.. consist of; (layman terms)
Hammers, Trumpets, Long and Short Tent Plates, Bubble, Torch, Star Polyps,
Mushrooms, Button Polyps, Pipe Organs, Colt, T. Crocea, snails, hermits, cleaner
shrimp. Fish still alive; 2 Perculas, 1 blue/green Chromis, 1 Bicolor Blenny, 1
Orange Spot Prawn Goby, and 1 Stripped Sleeper Goby (replaced white sleeper
goby). Dead fish include; 1 Sailfin Tang, 1 Blue Tang, 4 blue/green Chromis, 1
blue Mandarinfish, 1 White Sleeper Goby, and 1 Six Lined Wrasse. Now, everything
in the tank except the fish are fine.
All corals are fully open, extended, and growing. The calm and other inverts are
also doing well.
<Good clues here... the animals that perished need higher DO, more pristine
cond.s than the ones that are extant>
It all happened literally overnight; lights went out and the fish were fine, and
the next morning within the first four hours fish were showing up dead.
Obviously, I check the parameters and they were fine (ammonia-0, nitrite-0,
nitrate-trace, SG-1.025, pH-8.2, Cal-410, temp-78). I ruled out the mantis
shrimp, because no new rock has been put in the tank since setup, and through a
carbonated wash, rise and curing of the rock before the setup of the tank all
mantis and pistol shrimp were removed (1 of each and very neat by the way, both
captured and displayed for awhile until sold). All fish are QT'd prior to
introduction. I have never had any outbreak of any sort in the tank. I did check
for Anaerobiosis and notice nothing unusual (no back sand or bad smell) Oxygen
level is maintained by a air stone and skimmer in the sump. Biweekly water
changes from RO and reef crystals mixed weeks in advance.
The only thought I have is a bacteria, but why would it effect only certain
fish?
<There is a differential in environmental tolerance as mentioned above>
There are three fish that have never shown any signs of something wrong; the two
Perculas and the Orange spot prawn goby. All other fish show signs of rapid
breathing just hours before death,
<Bingo>
and even during that time fish still swim around and eat. I ruled out the food
source, since I threw away all food out of fear of contamination. Now I am back
at maybe a bacteria, one clue I am basis this off of is the fact that after the
deaths I started developing a Cyano algae in the tank, and also a clear-white
film on the surface of the water in the sump. I manually removed it and used a
little erythromycin to rid the tank of that problem,
<Not a good solution long-term>
and it has worked.
<You'll see...>
I let the tank run for a few weeks without any other intervention and everything
seemed to be fine, so I bought and QT'd a three Chromis and one stripped sleeper
goby to use as a test. After introduction two Chromis have died, but the others
seemed okay. Then, today (2 weeks) after the introduction of the Chromis and
goby, the Stripped sleeper goby and the bicolor blenny are showing signs of
rapid breathing (still eating), but again all other fish are fine. I have a
feeling that tomorrow they too will be dead, and I will still be wondering what
is wrong with the tank. I have thought about a total breakdown of the tank for a
cleaning and to replace the sand, but I am reluctant to do so because the corals
are doing so well.
I have pondered that maybe it could be a chemical toxin (warfare) from the
corals,
<Yes... this is HIGHLY likely>
but the corals don't seem to be engaged in any battles, and all LPS corals are
separated by at least six inches (including sweeper tents). I have heard of
Green Start Polyps causing problems in tanks, but I can't find a tie between GSP
and fish.
<Can be>
As a precaution to toxic warfare I have been running chemical filtration as
well.
<Good, what sort? Do you have access to an ozonizer? What is your RedOx? Have
you heard/read of using Vodka... Ethanol for boosting bacterial assimilation?>
Do any of you at the WWM have an idea of what I am dealing with, any
suggestions?
Thanks
Bryan
<I do... have you seen my new spiel/outline for reducing Cnid. neg.
interactions? Here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above? Please respond to my questions here and let's get
this systems problem/s resolved... better still, solved. Bob Fenner>
Re: Chaetodontoplus meredithi
Queensland Yellow-Tail Angelfish... Unrelated? Related? Fish Deaths
9/2/07
Thanks for your fast reply Mich!
<Welcome!>
It does look like a black velvet. Hard to tell. Other pics also look like it. I
will try to send more so you can see better. I have a new and bigger problem
now. Since this email my passer angel has died and my blue indigo???
<I'm sorry for you loss.>
No apparent reason? I’m thinking a virus? No signs of parasites.
<Was the Black Velvet angel placed in this tank with out QT? If so I would be
concerned about a potential pathogen.>
All levels are great 0 on everything except nitrates are 10 PPM.
<Not high enough to be concerning, but lower is better.>
The 2 fish went fast. I also have a red coris wrasse in there and that’s all
that’s left.
<I'm sorry for your troubles. Hopefully the Black Velvet is in QT.>
It’s a 135-gallon tank. The problem I have is if all my levels are good how do I
know I can put another fish in?
<I would not be in a hurry.>
I know with parasites you say leave empty for a month.
<Yes, can be efficacious.>
I would like to take the wrasse out and put in QT but in the past I have had a
wrasse kill himself trying to bury at night.
<You could add sand to the QT tank.>
Is it possible I have electric current running through the tank and my fish were
electrocuted?
<I guess anything is possible.>
How can I check for current running through it?
You can use a "multi-meter" tester that measure down to the "milli" which you
can find at you local hardware store.>
I don’t feel anything when I put my hand in?
<Mmm, not the best way to test... What if you could!!!! You could have been
seriously hurt or worse!!!!>
If I leave the wrasse in and he lives for a month should I try another fish.
<Always a risk.>
Thanks for your help Mich!
<You're welcome, not always helpful, but not for a lack of trying.>
Rapid fish
loss, SW, no data of use 8/4/07
Hello,
<Hi there>
I have had almost all of my fish die within the last few days. I posted
in the 911 forum (see rob5), but have not received the help I need.
I treated for ich
<With?>
and tried a fresh water dip, but it appears that my problem is not
really ich.
<Perhaps a result of the medication/treatment>
I have had the tank for over a year with no problems. I do regular water
changes and it always tests fine. This came on fast and I have already
lost almost all of my fish (clowns, powder blue tang, pigmy angle, blue
chromis). I only have my blue hippo tang left. I cannot diagnose the
sickness. Please help. I have included a picture.
Thanks, Rob
<Umm, need much more info. Rob if we're to try helping you... The Tang
shows evidence of neuromast destruction (HLLE)... Perhaps the root cause
of the trouble here is/was environmental... with your poisoning/killing
the stock with the action above. Please read through here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
To gain insight, grant you an overall idea of the types of data we're
looking for. Bob Fenner> |
|
 |
Fish and corals dying mysteriously
7/27/07
I have a 180 gallon tank with a 45 gallon sump. The tank has been running
without any problems for 3 years. I have a reef concept protein skimmer, a
dolphin pump running approx 6000 gph and two 400 watt metal halides. There is a
about 200lbs live rock with a 3 inch sugar fine sand bed. For my water changes I
use hard water (unfortunately) filtering with a RO unit to 80ppm
<Of... TDS?>
and use Seachem Reef Salt.
I currently have a large regal tang, a med brown tang, a orange tail Gobi, a
dragonette, a very large chocolate chip star, a brittle star, a coral banded
shrimp and a raccoon butterfly taking care of a very minor Aiptasia problem.
For corals, I have pulsing xenia, several tree corals or the same orientation,
several mushrooms polyps, a folded leather coral, a large candy cane coral, a
hammer head coral and a bubble coral.
The salinity is kept at about 1.025, the PH at 8.1 dropping to 7.9 at night.
calcium is 400ppm, nitrates are about 10mg/l, temp in the heat wave is about 83
degrees F for about the past 3 weeks, normally sitting about 80.
So for the problem: A couple nights ago I noticed that the water had a
yellowish/greenish tinge to it so I added some Fluval carbon to the sump with
cleared up the water the following morning and I took note that corals were
extremely plump and looking very healthy. Then to my surprise the following
morning they were shrunk up as if in distress. I was not sure what the problem
was so I observed for a day and the following morning there was no improvement
and both the butterfly and brown tang were dead!
<Yikes>
I checked the ammonia it was at .1mg/l
<Chicken or the egg?>
so I did a 25 gallon water change which brought the ammonia down to about
.025mg/l. I observed then for another day and didn't feed that evening, I added
more carbon and put a 55watt T5 to the sump with kept the PH more stable at 7.9
through the night. The following morning the remaining fish and inverts seem to
be struggling some what, but are still alive, but all the corals are still
shrunk and both the bubble and hammer head are dying rapidly. I have now done
another 20 gallon water change and removed the carbon for fear of bad carbon, as
this is the only new thing that was added before the problem began.
I am stumped on what the cause could be and have done all that I can think of
doing. Please provide your advice ASAP before I lose anymore livestock.
Look forward to hearing from you, thanks in advance.
Chester
<Don't know either, but reading what you've presented here, could this have been
triggered by the carbon use? Nothing jumps out as a "for sure" or even likely
"cause"... and I would continue as you've done... And going forward very likely
either add to or switch out some percentage of the live rock and substrate...
See WWM re this practice for rationale, methods. Bob Fenner>
Re: Where oh where did my first fish go?
6/4/07
Thanks Chris. <Welcome.> I did check for ammonia 24 hours and 48 hours
after I put him in the tank, and it has remained at 0. Would a 1" fish that
died, show an ammonia spike in a 53gallon tank (with about a 7g sump). <Hard
to say, depends on so many factors.> I did look in the sump for him, even
though I couldn't see how he could get into it, because I have an Elos tank,
and the slots in the overflow are TINY. It's a dry overflow, so he'd have to
end up in the sump and I don't see him in there. I have a feeling he's in
the rock work, but dead or alive, I don't know. This is my first saltwater
tank, and I would have NEVER imagined you could worry about a little tiny
fish! :)
Bye
Pam
<Try turning out the lights, maybe cover the front of the tank so he can't
see what is going on around the tank. Double-check the floor, the distance
they can jump is quite surprising. And other pets that may have seen a dried
fish as a nice snack? Hopefully he will still show up soon. I remember mine
always loved frozen bloodworms, might want to try those and see if you can
draw him out.>
<Chris>
Re: Where oh where did my first fish go?
6/5/07
Hi Chris. <Hello> I checked all around the tank on the floor again, and
he's not there. No pets to go after the body. <Ok> I checked the ammonia
again tonight for the 3rd night in a row, and it's still 0. Good idea on the
bloodworms. I'll give that a shot. I'll let you know if he shows up. Thanks!
Pam
<Hope it all works out well.>
<Chris>
Crashing Tank - Inverts Especially -
Please Help Me – 06/04/07
To the Amazing Crew at WWM,
<Hi there>
First I want to thank you for all the help your team has provided - this is
actually the first time I have ever had to send you a question.
My tank is CRASHING! And it's mostly inverts. Usually I find everything I
need right on the site, but anyway here is the problem. Here are my
inventory, parameters, and problems.
HARDWARE
I have a 75 gallon saltwater reef tank with a venturi skimmer.
4-powerheads moving around 1000 gph.
2 larger hang-on filters are currently being used instead of an 18 gallon
refugium that I have trying to set up forever with no success.
<Mmm, define "success"... and describe this unit...>
1 heater
1 - 65w/4 satellite high compact fluorescent with 2x actinic and 2x 10k
bulbs
PARAMETERS
-78 degrees and salinity of 1.0255
-Alkalinity around 200-240
-PH 8.2
-Nitrite- .5 ppm
<Mmm... should be zero... always>
-Nitrate- 20 ppm
<Borderline high...>
This Tank has been established for 4 years indirectly. About 4 months ago my
girlfriend and I moved in together and combined my 55 gallon reef with her
37 gallon reef to make this 75g tank.
<Ahh, togetherness>
- I also have about 90-110 lbs of liverock, mostly Fiji.
I use DT's phyto, and Kent for mostly everything else (calcium, Iodine,
buffer, food adds, etc. .)
<Mmmmm... how administered?>
I feed a combination of (formula 2, Cyclop-eeze, Mysis shrimp, formula 1,
and algae for the tang) I usually feed every other day or so.
LIVESTOCK
Here is where my problems are and it is mostly Inverts.
Fish - 3 inch maroon clown, 2 inch black percula clown, a 6-line wrasse
(small) and ---------- Yellow Tang Died Today
Inverts - There are tons of hermits that are still living, 2 - turbo snails
that DIED, 4 starfish (brittle, tiger striped, red serpent, and a black
serpent) ALL DIED YESTERDAY except black serpent.
<Yikes...>
- Cowry snail DIED, 4 black/white snails DIED, 4
bumblebee snails DIED, 6 Nassarius snails DIED, and I had a brood of
snails raising for 2 yrs or so and all the babies are DEAD
-2 Black long-spined sea urchins, one DIED yesterday,
one DIEING and shedding its spines. -several Feather Dusters also.
Coral - I have many corals, mostly the same kind, but here goes. -
1 large colt coral -- 1 bubble-tip Anenome (MISSING OR DEAD) -Many
Ricardio (spelled wrong, bumpy mushrooms) DIEING,
<... troubled mix...>
-7 toadstools, many mushrooms, I am not sure what kind but mostly the flat
purple, striped green, and red/bumpy ones all are shriveled up and look
ready to die.
I don't understand what is happening but it is bad, everything is dieing
except the clowns and 6-line. All the corals are shrunk up and withering
away, the crabs seem to be fine amongst all the dead parts to eat that I
couldn't get out (part of starfish arm). I pulled one urchin out yesterday
because its spines were just falling out. If you have any advice or have any
idea what I should do please let me know a.s.a.p. Should I take my living
things over to a friends tank? Or will that end up killing their tank? I
just don't know what to do. Thank you for your time
-Paul from Wisconsin-
<Something very amiss here... could be a chemical mish-mash issue... See WWM
re the aspects of what you list... the Troubleshooting FAQs for each... OR
could be a cascade event with the Anemone dying, poisoning the other
Cnidarians... they in turn poisoning the rest of your livestock... See WWM
re Anemone Compatibility... I WOULD change a good deal of your system water
ASAP with whatever volume of pre-mixed/stored water you have on hand... I
WOULD avail yourself of chemical filtrant use (See WWM...). I WOULD move as
much of this life to other systems if you can... I WOULD read re the
Selection, Compatibility of all new livestock ahead of acquisition... Bob
Fenner>
|
Re:
Nitrate and Phosphate spike ... SW troubleshooting... "other poisoned"
event 5/25/07
First, thanks
for the advice and the time spent to assist me with my water issue. I've
taken your advice and stripped down my refugium and cleaned out all the
Caulerpa. I have been, over the past ~12 weeks focusing on getting my
water quality back to ideal levels without the assistance of additional
products (Rowaphos, Denitrate).
The current water parameters (after 1 week with no Rowa/denitrate) are:
Temp - 82deg (night and day)
Salinity - 1.025
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - < 5 (the color isn't 0, but not quite 5 either..)
Nitrite - 0
Phosphate - 0 on my kit, tested at the LFS and was almost 0 (didn't get
the
exact number)
PH - 8.3 (Day) - 8.25 (Night)
Calcium - 400
Magnesium - 1300
Alkalinity - 4meq/l (Borate Alk. 1.5meq/l) - Seachem Test
- 10-11dKH - Aquarium Pharm. Test
- aside from a few small lingering spots all of the BGA is gone.
From the time of my last email to date, this is what I have done:
- Weekly water change - 15g/week (~10%)
- The water is all RO/DI (replaced all my filters, membrane and DI
beads to be sure), outbound TDS is 0
- stabilized at 82deg, 1.025 salinity, ~10dKH, 8.3PH
- buffered with Seachem Reef Builder/Buffer
- Carbon - replaced every 14d
- Polyfilter - replaced when they go 'brown' - the PolyFilter has
never changed any color other then brow, appears to just be debris
- Removed the Phosphate reactor media (using it for carbon now)
- Remove the de-Nitrate bags
At this point, something is still not right with my water.
- With the water at what appeared (from the tests) to be good levels I
attempted to add 2 Cleaner Shrimp and a piece of Xenia. I dripped all
of them for over 45mins to try and make it an easy transition. Within
24hrs of being added to the tank the Xenia was well on the way to being
dissolved, and the cleaners were snacks for the brittle stars.
<Likely the "too clean" water, chemical filtrant use along with the
stress of being moved, new... is at play here>
- For livestock I have 2 clowns, Yellow tang, Mandarin, Blenny, and a
Copperband. The fish all appear to be healthy and happy. The sand
sifter and brittle stars (3) are fine, and the snails seem to be
good. Any shrimp added seem to die almost immediately, and I have lost
2 Blood, 2 Cleaner and a Coral Banded since my spike. I thought it
could be copper, however the PolyFilter didn't change to a color that
would indicate copper.
<And your other invertebrates would show...>
I have a BTA, that isn't extending out fully, and appears to have
bleached (spotty and semi-transparent). It does still extend out daily
about 1-1.5in, and I have been feeding it silversides which it happily
takes and devours.
<Good... the absence of phosphate is likely problematic...>
- For corals, I have a Colt which is doing well, however my toadstool,
buttons, yellow polyps are all declining almost to extinction. All of
the green star polyps and mushrooms are totally gone. I have a Clam
(Tridacna gigas) that's about 8in in size, and appears to be doing well
(this is based on looking the same (color wise) as when I got it, and
the mantle is fully extended).
- Until the last 2 weeks any Chaeto I added would dissolve into mush
within a few days. In the last 2 weeks the pieces I have added are not
really growing, however they haven't dissolved either.
<Lack of essential nutrient...>
At this point I'm stumped as to where to look next. Something appears
to be off, however I'm not sure what to test or check for. Any
suggestions on what my next step should be?
<Cutting back on the use of the chemical filtrants...>
PS: My clowns have taken to the clam, and spend all day 'loving' it as
my wife says. They protect it from anything (including me cleaning the
glass), and I've seen them get aggressive with snails that happen to
wander by. I'm not sure if it bothers the clam, but it's interesting to
watch, especially at night when they sleep inside the clam. I attached
some images (shrunk down) that show day and night behaviors. Any idea
if this is going to have a negative effect on the clam?
<If it has not yet, not likely>
Thanks again for the help, and sorry for the length of the email.
Derek
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner> |
|
day night |
Only just got started - Fish dying and large bristleworms. Tandem
Deaths in New Marine Aquarium 5/7/07
Hello
<Hello Luke.>
there using your site a lot very helpful,
<Awesome.>
just a quick question
<Okay.>
I have lost 3 fish in the past month, 2 Green Chromis and a Banded
Butterfly fish thing with no apparent illness affecting them other than one of
the Chromis seemed pale in colour.
<If by banded butterflyfish, you mean Chaetodon striatus…In all honesty I’m not
surprised it perished. Most do not ship well, nor acclimate to captive
diets/life in general. In fact I believe this is one of the animals listed on
Bob’s poor butterflyfish list. As for the Chromis while they are hardy once
established they do suffer from poor shipping at times, ha\ving quite sensitive
skin.>
I am also worried about large bristle worms on our live rock (only some of the
rock not all) 2 in particular seem to be at least 4-5 inches
long (reddish/pinkish in colour) because I have read they can kill fish
and corals/anemones.
<Mmm…there are some predatory worms but most species that come in on live rock
are simply scavengers/detritivores. It’s unlikely they could catch a healthy
fish.>
Have tried to catch the buggers but they just aren't playing ball.
<See WWM and our forums WWF for tips on catching them if you must…>
System has been running for 4 months
<So relatively new.>
55 UK gal (4ft x 2ft x 2ft)
30 pounds live rock
Temp 26 C
S.g 1.023
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0.1
Nitrite 0.3
<If this is accurate should be zero…is toxic to fish an invertebrates.>
KH 125
Calcium 400
Phosphate 0.25
Ph 8.3
Irons all 0
Using RO water
and 300watt Halide + 40watt actinic
Fish in the tank is now 1 Chromis, 2 Clown Fish and hosting Green BTA (Know I
probably shouldn't have bought this at this early stage,
<Agreed.>
but couldn't resist
<Careful impulse buys are what lead to heart-break aquarium stories.>
started to lose colour under normal tubes hence light change after lots of tlc has
started to regain colour-wife says I should marry the fish tank !!), 1
Regal Tang (Will be upgrading as fish grows),
<Yes…>
1 blue/orange damsel
<These can get aggressive.>
, 2 snails, 2 Red Hermit crabs, 2 Cleaner Shrimp, 1 Leather, 1 Pussy Coral,
<Ahem…not familiar with that common name here in the states, that’s one of our
more taboo words.>
1 Star coral thing, and a baby BTA, all corals are opening and feeling very
happy at the moment.
If you have any concerns about my tank I would greatly appreciate any advice
you could give me as I am new to marines although I have had freshwater fish
for sometime this has been a bit of an eye opener.
<As far as the fish that perished, how long did you have them before they died?
Were they quarantined? What were they eating? Any signs of aggression between
tankmates? Other than the concerns I listed initially I’m not seeing any
red-flags, except for a potentially overstocked aquarium at one point or at
least in the future.>
Always in your debt for the endless amounts of help your site provides.
<Welcome.>
Loads of luck in the future,
<Luke….use the force…sorry I had to say that at least once.>
Luke
<Adam J.>
New Tank Additions and Mystery Die Off 4/26/07
Hi,
<Hello.>
my name is Curtis Richards and I am familiar with your forum,
<The public Chat forum or WWM itself?>
seems to have helped a lot of fellow hobbyists.
<We try…>
I have a 55gallon bowfront saltwater tanks for a little less than a year now. Up
until about 2-3 weeks ago all that was in the tank were two false perculas, a
yellowtailed damsel, and a purple firefish. They were all fine eating well and
everything was fine. By the way, I use a Bak pak filtration/skimmer unit with
makijet1200 powerhead, airstones, heater, Odyssea lighting, the whole shebang.
Parameters have been excellent ever since I’ve owned them.
<Good.>
There is also a Tongan Snail,
<Nassarius sp?>
2x Turbo Snails, and 10+/- hermit crabs in there. All fish I have ever put in my
tank have been drip acclimated for 2+ hours.
<Quarantine?>
Around mid March I made a purchase of a small flame angel, and a dwarf fuzzy
lionfish to make my tank complete.
<That dwarf lion will get rather large for a dwarf, your clowns, damsel as well
as your firefish at risk my friend.>
As well with the order I purchased a brown/green brittle starfish (purchased at
saltwaterfish.com).
<What species, if it’s genus Ophiarachna they are very predatory.>
The first 2 weeks went great, everybody seemed to get along with the exception
to the damsel who would flicker a little every time the angel got to close.
<Normal behavior for a damsel, aggressive little buggers, they are.>
Both the lionfish and angel were eating great. Frozen Ocean nutrition dwarf
angel formula for the angel, and believe it or not the lionfish practically came
to me weaned on frozen stuff.
<As they should when purchasing them from a reputable LFS.>
With in 3 days he was eating frozen krill soaked in Selcon.
<Good.>
Like I said before I do 3 parameter checks weekly all ammonia and nitrites are
at zero, alkalinity is stable, and pH is 8.4. About a week and a half ago, I
noticed my angelfish was hiding a lot more than when I had first purchased her.
And she had abruptly stopped eating. I tried everything from OC Pellets, to OC
seaweed select to krill to Mysis to brine, and got nothing.
<You did mention this animal was subject to some aggression from the damsel,
correct?>
Three days had passed without her eating and I was watching her under the
rockwork where she ususually <usually> is and my Tongan snail was literally
eating away at her right fin, while she was still breathing, and I notice a
great deal of her tail fin was gone too.
<If the animal is to the point where she cannot resist a snail attempting to
prey on him/her, she is in dire stress….needs to be moved to a quarantine tank
immediately.>
So I took her out and quarantined her
<Good.>
and sure enough she just sunk to the bottom, the next day she was dead.
<Sorry to hear that.>
And that's just the beginning to my problem.
<Uh-oh.>
I figured maybe I just got a bum fish, sometimes it happens.
<There is still a reason…..and in this case the animal was acting, eating
normally for about a weeks time, correct?>
But just last night I got home from class and my lionfish was extremely pale and
breathing really heavy. I checked the parameters of the water and they were the
exact same as they had always been. I watched him for a bit and he was very
rapid with his motions, almost twitching while swimming. And like the angel fish
he just refused to eat. Normally he is at the surface spitting out water to get
me to feed him and he'd jump out of the water when his food gets even close to
the waters surface. I have a lunar light rigged to the tank and all night he was
a mad man swimming back and forth back and forth about as quickly as he could.
Which was shocking because in my somewhat new knowledge of lionfish they are
docile swimmer, and he had never showed any aggression towards any of the other
tank mates. Sure enough the next morning he was dead in the same whole in the
rocks that the angel had stayed, I looked closer and I couldn't believe it, my
brittle starfish was eating the now dead lionfish. Is that a normal thing to do?
<Completely.>
It had two tentacles rapped around it and it was goin<g> at the thing. I grabbed
a set of long tweezers and fished him out to dispose of him, and in the back
corner of my tank my blue tailed damsel is on the ground pale and looks to have
been chewed on as well. Its like a fish horror film. I have no idea what to
think. I did a parameter check today as well and everything keeps coming back
the same amonnia-0, nitrites-0, ph8.4, alkalinity 1.8, salinity 1.023.
<Well there is definitely something environmental going on here. Can you have a
friend or LFS confirm the test readings? How old is your test kit?>
Are my invertebrates completely turning on my fish.
<Again, this is VERY normal for this species of brittle star.>
So far the two clowns and the firefish seem fine I watched them very closely for
about 2 hours and they seem fine, no signs of white or black specks so Am
counting out ick.
<Cryptocaryon does not typically kill this fast, no.>
I have no idea what to think. Or could there be something in my tank I don't know
is there. What are the sign/symptoms for bristleworms
<Doubtful bristleworms played a role.>
and other hazardous inhabitants?
<See WWM re: disease, see if you can I.D. a specific ailment.>
Also, my brittle star is fairly large sized, he's got about a 5-6inch wingspan.
Could he be the cause, it seems all my fish that settle on the substrate seem to
be the one who are dying, the clowns swim and bob at the top all night, and
firefish actually does hide in a small hole in the rocks.
<What you described sounds environmental, like a water quality issue or some
type of disease, though I can’t say what from the information you have provided.
Having said that I have no reserve saying that the seastar may be taking
advantage of the situation and prettying on the weak fish.>
Just seeing if there is maybe something ive <I’ve.> over looked, or if you have
any advice.
<I would get your test results verified by someone else or another test kit. I
would also read through WWM re: disease and perform a large water change.>
Anything at this point would be great, because I am at a loss for ideas or
reasons right now. Please help me, Thanks you so much.
<Welcome and Good Luck. Also in the future research all animals prior to adding
them and quarantine before addition to display.>>
Curtis Richards
<Adam J.>
Re: Completely Baffled 4/26/07
Crew,
<Michael>
Sorry for the missing information.
<Ok, most was provided>
I use the drip method of acclimation. About 3 -5 drips per second until water
doubles and then I discard half and drip until doubled again. I forgot to say that at first I float for about 30 minutes to adjust
temperature.
<Nothing wrong here…search goes on>
The leather is now about 1/8 the size when introduced. It seems like flesh is
falling off frequently.
<Does it look like the “skin” – transparent film – or the actually flesh –
flaked solid>
When I started the tank, upon some very poor information from the LFS, I introduced the 3 clowns and flame angel with
BioSpira and about 15 lbs of LR. After doing some testing, I noticed the Nitrite and Nitrate levels were high because the tank was cycling even with the BioSpira. I did 10% water changes every other day until I got my water quality up. Since then, I have not had any problems with water quality. Even though the tank did cycle, all 4 fish survived.
<Unfortunately you were a victim of poor-information and you will have learned,
however it always pays to get more than one opinion on set-up to avoid blatant
mis-information>
When the Flame angel went to QT, he started to look better after about 5 days. Based upon the fact that we saw him nipping at the
corals, we thought, he was the one that killed the Xenia, Zoanthids and Turbo snail. So, we were going to keep him in QT until we could find a better home for him because we thought he was just a big bully and was going to eat anything in our tank. That is where the 10lbs of LR come in. Knowing the flame eats constantly off the rock and he was
back to health, we placed 10 lbs of the rock in the QT tank for I'm to eat off. We figured it was OK since we were not using any chemicals.
<Ahhh ok, right mentality, however it can be the rock harbouring the parasites
etc and this can be transferred to the quarantine in larger quantities than
would be present on the fish – effectively a back of population of infection>
The reason why we moved him was that the last batch of corals, the leather and mushroom were on the decline. We only have one QT tank
and didn't want the flame angel in with the corals. So, since the flame angel
was back to health, we moved the corals to the QT tank and flame back to the
display. At this point, the display tank had fish only with LR and the QT tank
had 1 Zoanthus, 1 leather and 1 mushroom. That is when after 12 hours the
Flame’s health declined. Thinking that something is drastically wrong in
our display tank, we moved all inhabitant to the same QT with a divider to keep
the Flame away from the corals.
<In what way did it deteriorate? Symptoms? May be caused by stress under the
cramped conditions – this tank (20gallons) is too small for the Flame>
Now, in the QT tanks even the clowns are swimming more stress free. What we
thought was normal behaviour, now doesn't seem that way anymore. They used to
dart at each other and push each other around. Now that they seem like they are all good friends.
<Could be good – improved conditions – or bad – becoming lethargic>
To answer the specific questions now. Before we added the hermit crab and first
batch of snails, we just had the 3 clowns, flame angel and LR. The crab was
drip acclimated as per above.
<Ok>
We feed, some Cyclop-eeze flakes every other feeding. The other feedings, we
feed Rod's frozen food with garlic and Selcon. For the corals, we feed some
Phytofeast trying to spot feed them with a dropper. We feed every other day.
For water changes, I do 5% twice a week.
<Good regime and good selection/variety of food>
I am going to a different LFS this afternoon with a water sample to see if my
test kit is off.
<Worthy idea>
The only thing that has happened in the tank is that about 2 months ago, our
floating thermometer broke in the tank. The only thing that broke was the glass
and the metal weight beads were in the substrate. I picked all that out and
from the research I have done on the website, that shouldn't have affected
anything.
I am willing to dump LR and the substrate. If I have to start with new water
and re-cycle the tank, I will. If need be, I will try to set up separate QT
tanks but I don't have enough biological filtration. And, if my current QT is
possibly infected, do I start with straight premixed water? If I do, will that
need to be cycled?
<I would remove the Flame angel to the LFS as it likely that under the
conditions it will continue to be susceptible to conditions. I would then
continue monitoring all your animals in the quarantine whilst re-testing all
display parameters. Do substantial water changes with aged water on both tanks
and continue to monitor. If all remains well in the quarantine, re-introduce
slowly after all of the display tank’s water has been effectively replaced
through changes, if any symptoms are exhibited on re-introduction I predict a
resident parasite then it may be worth starting to replace things or emailing
back>
I am trying hard to get this correct. We are in the stages of planning a 150 -
200 gallon tank and we want to know that we have the skills to be successful.
<You will have the skills through unfortunate incidents like this, continue
persevering and if you think of anything of note, email back, also if there is
anything else you would like clearing up>
I hope this is enough, If you need more, I will provide it.
I hope you can help.
<So do I, keep in contact and we’ll continue working at it>
Michael Svehla
<Good luck, Olly>
Re: Can it be velvet? 4/8/07
Dear WWM,
<Stella>
I'm sure you're very busy, and the holiday season is probably also causing
delays. I just wanted to give you an update since my email from 8 days ago
(attached below).
My goby's stomach has basically shriveled. He had stopped scratching when I
first wrote to you, but since then he has been very lethargic and has lost I's
say at least 1/3 to maybe 1/2 his body weight.
<Yikes. Bad>
Still no signs of any white spots, which makes me think it isn't velvet after
all. Up till 2 weeks ago, he was actively fat and ate everything I put in the
tank. Yesterday for the first time since Tue, I saw him eat some Nori and a bit
of the frozen Formula 2 I had put in which made me very happy. The tang and the
Gramma are fine and show no signs of anything. Any thoughts on what the issue
might be?
<Mmm... none that aren't posted>
Also, is there any possibility of whatever he has passing on to an invertebrate?
<Not likely>
My fish are fine (so far) but the Lysmata cleaner shrimp has became fairly
lethargic and seems to have lost his appetite!
Best,
Stella
<Something is awry with the environment here... the list of possibilities is
vast... the usual S.O.P. for response not... Water changes, availing yourself of
chemical filtrants... See WWM re Troubleshooting, Toxic, Environmental Disease
of Marines:
http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm>
P.S. I know I should have the goby in a QT tank, but NYC apartments just don't
have that kind of space unless you make a million $ a year.
<Perhaps a small tank for this purpose in the bathroom? Close to drainage, new
water... Bob Fenner>
Ich?? 3/18/07
Hi,
<Hello, Brandon here tonight.>
Found your website and was hoping to get some help. Sorry, I pressed the wrong
button in the last email and sent it before I finished writing so I'll have to
recap again...
<Itchy trigger finger eh? Don’t worry, I have done this more than once…>
We are new to aquariums, fish, etc but we recently bought a marine aquarium with
live rock, anemones, etc. The store said that the tank has been stabilized and
so we were convinced that it would not be a horrendously difficult task. Long
story short, we lost a lot of fish.
<I wonder what they mean by stabilized… Any time that you move a group of fish
and their environment, you are taking on a HUGE project.>
We started out with about 11, 3 shrimps, and 1 starfish. We returned one shrimp
as it kept going after the clown. From this original batch, we have the
starfish and the clown. We lost all others.
<I am left wondering what the size of this tank is…>
When we told the store that the fish had died, she said that probably chemicals
were released when we transported the tank and to wait about a week before
returning to replace the fish.
<This sounds bogus to me. I hope that they gave you a refund on the lost
fish. I have seen these pre-setup tanks in stores before for something like
$200-$400 before. I am guessing that the tank is a small one, something like 30
gallons or under. I never bought one of these because I felt like it was too
much of a risk to move it.>
We waited a week and went back for 6 fish so that we had about 9. We lost most
of these fish over the next 2 days and only have 1 from the second batch.
<Again I am wondering what the size of the tank is, but this is too many fish at
one time.>
One of the fish that died the second round had white spots and when we mentioned
this, the store gave us some bacterial medication.
<Stress, and Cryptocaryon, anti-bacterial medication would be useless here.>
The fish wasn't acting "weird" otherwise. Also when we had the second round of
deaths, we were told to test the water. We tested with the NO2 kit - water was
the lightest yellow on the chart,
<The color of the NO2 chart means nothing to me. It would be more helpful if
you could send a number. For illustration, my NO2 test kit rates in colors
starting at light blue ranging to a very interesting shade of purple.>
and we tested the water for both salinity and temperature. Both were within the
normal range.
<Again, define “normal” numbers are of more use here, as well as a list of the
inhabitants, size of the tank, lighting scheme, and filtration scheme. You need
to be testing for Ammonia (NH3), Nitrite (NO2), and Nitrate (NO3) at a
minimum. Preferably with liquid test kits, the kind that you add drops with.>
Even the store is at a loss.
<Hard to imagine how, they have been such a wealth of information and good
advice up to this point.>
The clown had been ok but now has white spots. It's now been a week since we
went for more fish,
<The best thing for you to do at this point is hold off on adding any more
fish. You most likely have Ich more scientifically known as Cryptocaryon
irritans. Any fish that you add will be infected at this point, and could
possibly die.>
and 5 days since we lost the majority of them. Even the two shrimps were lost
this last round.
<This is likely due to the anti-bacterial medication, which is not the right
kind of medication to begin with. What did you say the name of this pet store
is? I want to make sure that I never go there.>
Are the white spots Ich?
<Most likely they are trophonts. This is but one phase in the Cryptocaryon life
cycle.>
We have been doing the medication and have not added anymore fish. We only have
two.
<This medication, as before mentioned isn’t doing anything. Were I you, I would
do some reading here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm.>
My clown is looking very spotty (tiny white spots) but not much else. The other
fish hides in the rocks most of the time so not sure how it is doing.
Any help is appreciated.
<I wish that I could be of more help beyond this, but without more information I
am unable to. Feel free to write again with the information that I outlined
above, and I will try to be of further assistance.>
Thanks
<You are most welcome, Brandon.>
Sandra
Re: Bubble Deaths Part II 3/5/07
Thank you, Chris for the information. <Welcome.> I don’t know why I thought
a water change would get rid of the ick, or not be transmitted to the 55 gal
once the Cardinal fish was put in there! <Easy to make bad decisions when under
stress.> The stress of losing yet another pet was mind boggling! <Amazing how
attached we get to fish.> I have decided to let the 55 gal go fallow for 8
weeks. <Good.> The 10 gal now has the heater from the 55 in it, raising the
temperature to 90. <Make sure you have good circulation, the O2 level will drop
drastically at this temp.> It will remain so for 4 weeks. My question is,
during this period, do I continue with the monthly water/filter change in the
55? <I would.> I have decided to leave the light off, also, as there is enough
algae in it. <Even more reason to keep up with the changes, as the algae dies it
will release nutrients back into the system and water changes will help remove
these.> I have sand substrate, which gets covered with green spots and requires
weekly vacuuming to remove it. <Not uncommon, check for phosphates to see if
this is the source of the problem.> Well, I knew the job was tough when I took
it! <Gets easier with experience I assure you.> Your link on the "dip" was
extremely helpful and now that I know how to do it, I feel more confident that
my future pet(s) will have a better chance of surviving. <Great.>
... Thanks again!!
Brenda Truitt
<Good luck in the future.>
<Chris>
Unexplained Deaths, SW... 2/22/07
I have a 50 gallon tank, 8 months old, 40 lbs live rock, 3 shrimps, sand
sifting star, snails, Condy anemone, three percula clownfish, blue tang,
<Needs more room>
red saddleback clownfish, watchman goby, three damsels, royal Gramma Basslet,
flame scallop.
<Mmm, hard to keep>
Diet consists of plankton, flake food, seaweed and live & frozen
shrimp. Everything running smoothly, all of a sudden day after day fish start
dying. Water test at home and local salt aquarium store all good, ever so
slight elevation of nitrate,
<Could be post-related to the deaths>
water change, fish keep dying, note no invertebrates are affected.
<A good clue>
Additional water test, Hmmmm no ph registers at all. The store employee and are
bumfoosled. We even double check her water at the store just to make sure the
ph test chemical was working. But nope my water had no ph.
<...? All liquids have "a" pH>
Which I thought would of killed every invertebrate in the tank, shows what I
know. Added supper buffer for the ph and all tested out fine.
There were no visible signs of parasites, etc. No velvet, no ick, no
luck. Watch them continuously for any strange signs of behavior etc and there
was none. Finally, lost all fish. Still have every invertebrate though and the
shrimp seems just happy molting. Please provide any advice that you can give me
to test before adding any new fish. I was really heart broken when they started
to die, I did attempt a last ditch effort to move the remaining few fish to my
hospital tank but not sure if that was just more stress for them and they didn't
last a day.
Amazing the emotional connection you can have with your fishes.
Laura K.
<Ah yes... well, you apparently have some sort of toxicity that does not effect
invertebrates... These are only of a few "types", the most common being
something biological... likely either an organism/group growing in/on your live
rock or in the substrate... The easiest way to "get around" such situations is
to do large water changes, "spiff" up (clean, tune) your skimming, and use
chemical filtrants (Activated Carbon, Polyfilter)... and have time go by (about
a month)... This should do it here (to allow whatever the toxic source is to
"cycle" out... if not, more drastic measures may be called for... the
introduction of purposeful predators, competitors (macro-algae), addition of a
live sump/refugium... Bob Fenner>
Please Help... Bizarre common names (to RMF), some querulous set-up,
feeding... - 02/21/07
Hi Crew
<Jason>
I have had a fifty gallon salt water tank system going for about 10 months. In
this tank I have two Blue Damsel's, one African Clown,
<? I wonder what species this is>
one standard orange Clown, two three striped black and white angels,
<?>
one Coral Beauty, one Arrow Crab, one Hermit Crab and two snails. I haven't use
any live rocks or coral yet. I was just getting prepared to start adding some
live rock when I notice my African clown acting slightly upset, particularly not
actively eating. My Coral Beauty is also distressed. It is not eating at al |