Sumps, Wet-Dries
Hi Bob
Thanks for your advice re below.  I have read the bio-ball FAQs and am a bit confused?
<Okay>
1) If I take the bio-balls out then what is the point of having a sump? Is it just to remove the ugly site of skimmer and heater? Could I have then just purchased an external canister filter and put in some filter floss, noodles and activated carbon?
<Mmmm, all you list is of value, plus added volume, aeration, another isolated spot to separate livestock... Canister filters not nearly as valuable>
2) If I slowly take out the bio-balls and then add some live rock and increase the volume of water - I could probably submerge a few pounds of LR. Can I mix both bio-balls and live rock during a transition period?
<Yes>
Wouldn't I get a massive build up of detritus in the bottom compartment where the heater is sitting?
<Mmm, not really, and not a real issue/problem... some of this mulm, which is mainly beneficial, can be siphoned out every few months>
3) Is there a point in having a spray bar any more? What should I do to now to replace this? I guess it could also have the added benefit of reducing noise?
<Drip trays are far better than spray bars... don't clog, restrict flow, and never break down>
Thanks
Simon
<Bob Fenner> 

Playing In The Tidepool!
Howdy gang!
<Hey there! Scott F. with you today>
Discovered WWM.COM a few days after setting up a 70 gal marine tank,  (what luck!),  I got a Marineland Tidepool 1, receiving a Mag-drive 950, as soon as it shows up, to replace the Rio 2100, for water return thru 1/2 " ID check valve & ball valve. Water is input to the Tidepool 1 bio-wheel thru the SOS overflow. Question, what media do y'all recommend for the three media trays? I am now using the following; first (top) tray has Matrix media (SeaChem) with blue bonded filter pad on top, 2nd tray (middle) has a product called "aqua chargers" made of a "bio-flex" polymer that's self cleaning"?", pre-colonized with a high density nitrifying bacteria blend with a blue bonded pad on top, & the last (bottom) tray has blue pad with a layer of activated carbon topped of with another blue bonded pad.
<Ya know what, Scott? I'd keep things really, really simple, and not even use the BioWheel assembly. Basically, let the tidepool become your water processing center for your system. Live rock and sand in your tank will become your filter. The sump will handle the water inflow, and contain your heater, protein skimmer and a bag or two of activated carbon. That's it...easy! The beauty of the Tidepool, or any sump, for that matter, is the flexibility that it offers the aquarist. As far as the media trays...I'd only use one of them-and use the blue bonded pads for removal of gross particulate matter...and change them a few times a week so they don't become nutrient traps. I am not a big fan of plastic filter media in sump systems...keep it simple and natural...IMO>
The tank was set up on 12-14 & has started to cycle with two damsels. After spending a few days studying this site, I ordered a Remora Pro skimmer to help with the live rock I am going to/should have already, put in the tank. The main concern is the aqua charger (bio-ball like) media, what is the opinion of the staff on what to replace this type of media with?
<As above. The bacteria contained on these media are/will be/have been colonizing your system, so I don't see a huge advantage in using these types of "precolonized" media. BTW, the Aqua C Remora is one of the best HOT skimmers on the market, and was a nice choice.  However, if possible, you may want to see if you could exchange it for an Aqua C Urchin Pro, which is an "in-sump" model, you could really take advantage of the sump, IMO>
This web site is definitely worth its weight in live rock (gold) when it comes to information! Thanks ever so much! Scott
<Good luck with your new set up! Keep studying and learning-sounds like a neat system you have planned! You'll be fine! Feel free to write us any time! Regards, Scott F>

Clogged wet/dry sponge
Hi,
I have a 100 gallon Uniquarium that was in my office for 5 years and serviced by a local shop.  I have recently shut down the office and brought the tank home.  After a few weeks of having the same shop service it, I began to care for it myself as they were charging me an arm and a leg due to my home being a bit far away for them.  Recently, the tank has much more water in it than it should and it seems that the chamber with the bio balls is a little low.  Additionally, the chamber to the far left is full to overflowing. <hmm.. maybe a sponge is clogged. I would purchase a new
sponge or just clean out the old one. also the tubing could be clogged> I don't know EXACTLY how the
water flows through this system, but I suspect that there is a clog between the left most chamber and the one directly adjacent to it.<yes, I believe it may be the sponge.>  Can you clear this mystery up for me?<just replace or clean out the sponge>
Thanks
Adam Anthony<Your welcome, IanB>

Live Rock and wet-dry filter media
Bob:
I've got a pretty heavily stocked, fish-only 75 gallon system, running on a DIY wet-dry filter and an Aqua C EV-90 skimmer. I recently purchased a 44 lb. box of Fiji live rock, and it's now being cured in its own tank. It will be quite awhile before I have the chance to buy much more live rock, and 44 lbs won't itself be enough for filtration purposes in my system. On the other hand, the bio-balls are a major nitrate factory, so I'd like to take out as many of them as possible.
QUESTION: When I add the 44 lbs. of live rock, how much of the wet-dry filter media can I safely remove? Does about half sound right?
Thanks. jwl 
>>
Wait till no ammonia, nitrite are showing in your tests... then you can start to remove the wet-dry media... about a half every couple of weeks maximum... IMO
Bob Fenner

Wet/dry media, skimmer placement in relation to media
Hi Bob. I hoped to get your opinion on a couple of items. If a person was to use a w/d trickle filter on a high bio-load saltwater setup, do you see any advantages to using either the colorful plastic bio-media that comes in most filters, or in using DLS media?
<Yes, some, absolutely, given enough circumstance for thwarting the over-driven effects of nitrification... i.e. anaerobic/hypoxic denitrification in the way of a deep sand bed area, plenum set-up, purposeful/functional denitrification rig, sufficient macro-algae/photosynthate mass...>
It seems to me that the DLS would have
greater surface area per volume (I could be wrong). 
<At some point, times in its use... but this "Double Layer Spiral" (DLS) mix of netting, batting (polyester) turns into a bunch of "wet toilet wad" over its cycle time (when installed till replaced/serviced)... all in all plastic biomedia (mock-ups and downs to Pall Rings of sewage treatment technology) are more consistent in their functionality>
Also, I notice that when DLS is used, you get a proliferation of little shrimp and what-nots living in the media. 
<A very good benefit, but what happens when you move, switch out the DLS? Better to skip both these materials and move ahead to live rock and macro-algae lit-sump technology... perhaps with some core/Siporax/EHFI-mech media, with polyester/Dacron ahead of it in a sheet to remove particulates...>
I would think that this would benefit the health of system at least by providing a kind of "refugium" that is providing natural food to the aquarium, and that there could be other possible beneficial effects of this little ecosystem in the bio-media. (?) Also, I know that it would be ideal to place the fractionator "upstream" from the bio-media, but its not near as easy to setup that way. Most manufactured products wont work that way, and even DIY isn't that easy to do from my experience. My question is; how dramatic is the decrease in the effectiveness of the fractionator if it does end up having to be downstream of the bio-media?
<In my experience, all "things" else being equal (impossible), not much...>
Or is it that big of a deal at all?
<Ah, wish I had said, written that. In most all cases, "no big deal". Now I have... partial credit?>
Thanks. Dan
<You're welcome. Bob Fenner, www.wetwebmedia.com>

Wet/Dry Filter Question
Hello,
I have set up my 90 gallon tank and getting ready to add live rock to start cycling process. When the water comes into the overflow box down to my filter, should I put a blue pad on the shelf before the water hits the bio balls, or would my beneficial bacteria simply grow on the blue pad.
<Good question, and a good idea to place a pad of Dacron/polyester foam as you suggest.>
I have it there now, but I wanted to double check before I add my rock. I was told I needed to add a blue pad to my filter.
What do you think?
<The "blue" is just an add-on to "batting material", Dacron polyester... if you find yourself using a bunch of this look into buying it "in bulk" at a yardage store... same stuff. Bob Fenner>
Thanks again!!!
Regards, Fred

Re: nitrates high!
Dear Bob,
OK now I'm REALLY confused. I quote you from the site you referred us to:
"by using a typical wet-dry you will find a surplus of nitrates produced... and need to find ways to rid the system of the same... Instead, more "balanced" filtration approaches like using live rock, macroalgae, a mud sump... won't."
Where do you describe the "mud sump"? 
<Oh... let's see... do need to write a complete "piece" about these... How about here: http://WetWebMedia.com/mudfiltrfaqs.htm
Please read through these FAQs and use the Google search feature on our site (WetWebMedia) with the words "mud", "sump", refugium, Leng Sy...>
Isn't our crushed coral what they call a deep sand bed that has denitrifying bacteria?
<If deep enough, not too-circulated, depending on grade, composition...>
Would rustling through it disrupt this even if there is detritus in it?
<Yes, to some degree>
Everything I read said the trickle, while expensive, was the safest way to go (aside from a totally LR system). 
<The "safest" way to go about what? Live aquatic closed-system filtration? Depends on many qualifying criteria, but not the "safest".>
If we remove the Biobale, how will the ammonia be broken down? 
<By nitrifiers elsewhere in the system... once going (cycled) there are plenty>
How will LR do anything different from the Biobale?
What's the best course to transition?
<All this posted on our site... Please read: http://WetWebMedia.com/liverock1.htm 
and beyond in the "Curing LR" FAQs sections>
Last night, we vacuumed out a huge amount of black gunk under the Biobale.
Hopefully we did not kill any helpful bacteria (or that gunk wasn't anaerobic bacteria). Nitrates are still sky high. I'm reluctant to change much more water since it's now approaching 50% in 3 days.
<Not clear to me here... what is approaching fifty percent?>
If we go out and buy lots of cured LR, won't a lot of that die in the transition and make matters worse?
<Some die off, but likely no problem.>
Then, we REALLY need a protein skimmer, right? Even, then, isn't that too traumatic?
<Do you not have a skimmer currently? You very likely would/will benefit from ones use>
In answer to your light question, our light is 4x20 watts (2 actinic, 2 full spectrum). Can LR survive OK on that?
<Yes>
We planned to be fish only (except our hermit and cleaner shrimp). It gets hot and we did not want to go metal halide/chiller.
<Do try at least "some" live rock... you will not be disappointed I assure you>
I can't seem to find a place that sells macroalgae. Where do you get that stuff. I've been hearing about some Caulerpa ban??? Regardless, I'm sure our little tang would love to snack on it.
<Do check with the etailers posted on the WWM Links Pages>
You just can't win. Sorry to always be so discouraged. Even if our system crashes, it has be 8 months of happiness (in between the crises).
Thanks,
Allyson
<Ah my friend. You are on the brink of clarity. Do keep your eyes on the prize and study. Bob Fenner>

Running Wet/Dry Filtration along with Live rocks
Hello Bob.
<Hi there>
I am new in setting up a salt water system. I am still in process of cycling my tank. I have a 75 Gallon (Jebo) tank, 150 lbs of Hapai, Tonga and Fuji live rocks. 40 lbs of live sands. I have AquaC-EV120 Skimmer under the stand and another simple one (Kaco) on the top. Water comes down the over flow channel inside the tank to a good size Wet/Dry unit, then through AquaC skimmer and pumped back to the tank.
After 5 weeks, Ammonia is zero, Nitrite is at 5.0, Nitrate at 10 and PH at 8.2.
My question is: what are the good or bad things about combination of Live rocks & Sand with Wet/Dry filtration system?
<Mmm, none really... given there is some sort of "balance" between the aerobic and anaerobic driving/capacity of each>
I plan to have fish and corals in my tank in near future. Current lighting is 220W. Do I have to increase wattage for corals?
<Not necessarily... depends on the type of "corals" in question, the type of lighting "watts" you're referring to. 
You would do well to "spend" some time and money buying and reading over Eric Borneman's and/or Anthony Calfo's books on Aquarium Coral husbandry ahead of investing in livestock or other mechanicals. These works can be searched through the e-tailers listed on our links pages on WetWebMedia.com
Bob Fenner>
Thanks in advance.
-Albert

Wet-Dry Filter
Hello Anthony!
<greetings, Thanassis>
I finally bought the wet-dry filter we have been discussing about. It is an EHEIM 2229 Wet-dry (circulation cap. 550 L/hour). This filter is proposed for larger aquariums (mine is only 200 lit) , but I thought that it would be nice to have this big size in case I upgrade to bigger tank in the future. 
<very wise>
On the other hand I have been told that it would be better to have it half-filled with filter media , since my present aquarium is much smaller than the capacity of this filter, otherwise it would built a too big number of bacteria colonies, 
<not true... bacterial colonies only grow in size to the load put upon them>
which would mean a "too much of biological action" in my aquarium and which is supposed to be bad for the water. I do not know if this can be correct.
<not correct... I'd play it safe and fill it with media... better water flow through media that way too>
I installed the filter and it is running properly. I filled all three canisters with sintered glass (EHFI Substrat) , which is recommended by EHEIM, but I filled just the half of each canister for the above reason. 
<a very coarse foam block stuck onto the intake strainer (inside the tank) as a bulk prefilter often extends the life and cleanings of the media inside such external filters>
I am running at the same time the already existing external filter , an EHEIM 2224, where I have the bioballs and Substrat and which has proved to be insufficient for my system, "modest" as you wrote, and may be the reason of often illnesses of my fishes. My dealer told me it would be better to run both filters at the same time forever, but what I am thinking is to run them both for two months and afterwards take out the material of the 2224 and put it in the wet-dry filter (both bioballs and Substrat). What would you advise?
<the wet/dry filter is a better environment for biological media...agreed>
Best regards, Thanassis
<kindly, Anthony>

Wet-Dry filter & Oodinium!!!!
Hello Anthony!
<Cheers, again, Thanassis>
"a very coarse foam block stuck onto the intake strainer (inside the tank) as a bulk prefilter often extends the life and cleanings of the media inside such external filters"
Yes, this is exactly what EHEIM also recommends and is included in the package of the Wet-dry filter (I have it on already). They recommend to keep it on for 6 weeks and then take it out. I consider of cleaning it and put it back.
<yes, agreed... I like to rinse and reuse it constantly>
Well, whenever I realized that my fishes started to have Oodinium (especially the Blue Tang) I immediately treated it with OODINEX, an ESHA product, which is a light medication (can be used also to invertebrates) and the signs of the illness went away on the third day of the treatment. This time this is not the case. After a 4-day treatment with OODINEX the spots did not disappear, but on the contrary I realized today (it is the 4th day) that they have become more. I have a copper-based medication in my stock (the CUPRAZIN from Waterlife),
<Actually... I do not feel that copper if effective at all on Amyloodinium (velvet). The parasite buries into the fish too deep to be killed by copper before the fish does! Formalin based products have been shown to be effective as well as consecutive daily dips (5-8).>
afraid of a serous problem if I put CUPRAZIN inside it.
but I afraid to use it, since OODINEX is still in my system.
<Polyfilters will clear this promptly when that is the only concern>
On the other hand I feel that I have no time to take the OODINEX out with my skimmer or carbon, because this would take at least two days, and it would be too late for my fishes. 
<Overnight with the Polyfilters>
I am thinking of taking the risk and put tomorrow morning CUPRAZIN, because otherwise I could lose my fishes. 
<still... I don't think this will be very effective... better off to do aggressive freshwater dips>
In the instructions of OODINEX it is only mentioned that it should not be used at the same time with any other treatment, but there is no indication for waiting two or more days in order to make another treatment.
<indeed...most medications do not stay in solution for even a few days>
Do you have any experience with the above medicines? What should I do? Perhaps by the time I receive your answer I may have already taken some action on this (now it is 02.32 a.m.), but still I would like to have your advice. Thanks and best regards, Thanassis
<best regards, Anthony... PS. I recently sold one of my books through Amazon.com to an aquarist in Cyprus. Is that close to you?>

Wet/Dry Prefilter
I just added a Rio 2500 & an inline chiller to my 125 gallon FO tank that already has a Rio 4100 pushing the circulation. Here's my problem, the wet/dry can't handle the water returning through the two returns & starts to overflow above the filter floss. As a partial fix I replaced the old floss (that was used for about 2 months)
<Way too long to go without replacing. I replace all prefilters at least monthly, if not every other week.>
& the water is flowing fine. I am considering drilling about twice the number of holes in the lid just below the filter floss to allow for a higher flow rate inside the wet/dry. What's your take on this?
<If you keep your prefilter cleaned, you will probably need to take no further action. -Steven Pro>

Wet/Dry Media
I was looking at using shotgun wadding, the plastic, (non-biodegradable, clear) kind.
<I have never done any reloading myself, so I don't know what this stuff is/cannot recommend it.>
Someone also suggested the plastic scouring pads made by 3M.
<I have seen these used in pond filters. They will work, but not the best. They will trap debris and probably channel the water too much.>
I was in Home Depot last night and saw a plastic filter media used for filtering in air conditioning systems. It comes in sizes up to 36". Have you seen this material and what do you think of using it in a wet/dry?
<I have seen and used various HVAC products for prefilters to W/D's, but not for the media itself. Again, they tend to trap too much particulate matter.>
Thanks, Skipper30217.
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Rinsing Wet/Dry Media
Hello again fellows,
I read yesterday on the Daily FAQ that someone was being advised against rinsing their filter media with fresh water, as it kills all of the microbes. I rinse my media from the wet/dry trickle filter in fresh water. Is this wrong?
<Yes>
If so, what should I rinse it in? I don't have another tank set up, but I could use the water from my water changes.
<The water change water will work fine, but far easier/better to prefilter the media well and not need to rinse at all.>
Also, does dried seaweed, like Seaweed Selects pollute the tank just as any other food?
<Yes, if it goes uneaten and allowed to decay.>
Thanks as always! John
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Re: Rinsing Wet/Dry Media
Thank you Steven. Just a clarification. In my wet/dry I have four trays. Top is a white poly filter, second is a blue colored fine filter with about 3/4" carbon, the third is the another blue filter with a carbon filter pad, and the last has nothing in it at all.
<Ok, not at all what I had in mind. I thought you were talking about rinsing bioballs or other similar media. This seems to be more of a mechanical/chemical filter.>
I never rinse the carbon with freshwater, only the filter pads, and foam prefilter on the overflow. Is this what you mean by pre-filtering the media?
<It is fine to wash the prefilters because you do not wish to encourage bacteria to live there. These trays are more for mechanical filtration, fine water polishing. In fact, the more you rinse these, the better. Daily would be great.>
Thanks for the clarification, John
<I hope I understood what you have this time around and that my advise is applicable. -Steven Pro>

Re: Wet dry filter (as) with sump
Hello, <<and hello to you,>>
I am taking your suggestions and using a 24x10x18 sump instead of a wet dry filter. <<ok>> I am going to add live rock, but should I also add live sand? <<Your choice, if you run without, it would be much easier to vacuum out accumulated detritus.>> With the live rock in the tank do I need to feed that sump any or just have lights? <<Some people just leave out the prefilters, and that would 'feed' the sump. Also your call on the lights. If you leave them out, the sump and live rock will grow more cryptic items, not always seen - would be interesting.>> If you suggest to add live sand, should I put sand sifters (Nassarius snails, etc) in the tank and again should I feed it? <<If you decide to run sand in the sump then by all means, some Nassarius snails would work well.>>
Thanks,
Daniel
<<Cheers, J -- >>