A problem with my Yellow Tang... System period... Env. dis.   4/7/08
Hello from Bronx, NY,
<Howdy from S. Cal.>
*Here is my background history*: I started a 55 gallon saltwater fish tank on February 5th, 2008 . By "started" I mean that I filled the tank and began cycling it. In it I have 100 lbs of sand and 33 lbs of live rock. I tested my water every 3 days through March 7th, 2008. My sister (who introduced me into the hobby and lives in Pennsylvania) read my levels to her LFS employee (He sets up, and cleans saltwater tanks for many companies through out Pennsylvania) and he said that my tank was ready for some fish. So when she arrived to my home on the 7th, she brought a Singapore angelfish,
<Mmm, really needs a larger volume than this... and one that is much more established>
and a chocolate chip starfish
<... a poor choice... read on WWM re>
as my birthday gift. I fell in love with my wet pets. The next day (Saturday), we went to Long Island to purchase more fish and live rock. At the time, I didn't know of the "2 fish at a time" rule and so I purchased 2 Ocellaris, 1 yellow tang, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 Banggai cardinal,1 ocellated dragonet (or scooter), and somewhere with the Live Rock a tiny hermit crab snuck in as well (all of them are juvenile like 1 to 2 inches big). On Sunday morning, my Nestle Tollhouse (chocolate chip) had died.
<Typical>
I felt horrible and felt like the worst fish parent on earth.
<Mmm, no... again, just typical>
I was told that they don't do well in newly set up tanks.
<Ah! Correct>
I should also confess
now that I haven't invested in a quarantine tank (not because I don't want to, but because I can't afford it right now - but I'm saving up for it).
<... Mmm, better this than more lost livestock...>
Needless to say, I became really nervous about keeping my other fishes alive. I called my sister's LFS in PA with questions about my tank. I was advised not to change the water anytime soon so that my tank would have the opportunity to develop necessary bacteria. So I haven't done any water changes since my pets arrived. Every night I'll sit by my tank to observe my fishes. At first my Angelfish would hide in a cave. My Banggai cardinal would just stay at either end of the tank, while the other fishes would swim or scoot about the tank openly.
*Recently* I've noticed that my Yellow tang's behavior has changed and so has the Angelfish. They both swim about openly, but once in a while it looks like they are swimming at darting speed towards the other fishes (this is especially true of the angelfish who has begun to pick on the clown fishes and the cleaner shrimp).
The Yellow tang however does dart, and once in a while scratches himself against a rock. He has developed what seems like lightly red spots on one side of his body, and around his eyes and mouth there is a pattern that looks like stitches coming apart.
<Good description... environmental...>
I've attached a picture for you to see what I mean. He has a healthy appetite, I feed him the seaweed sheets, and he also eats what the others eat as well (Mysis shrimp, dried green marine algae, Omega One flakes, and Ocean Nutrition Frozen Foods (formula one, and formula two) and brine shrimp on occasion). He still swims openly, but has also become rather fond of staying by the Banggai cardinal's side (I mean really close together).
<No worries here>
He'll stay there for 2 to 3 minutes and then he'll swim away, pick at the live rock, go where the other fishes are, and then comes back to the cardinal.
I checked my water levels yesterday and this was the reading:
Salinity is 1.024
Alkalinity is Normal (based on Marine lab test kit)
PH is 8.2 - 8.4
Ammonia is 0.25
Nitrite is 0.2
<The two above are toxic... see WWM re...>
Nitrate is 20
So I made a 20% water change last night. I'll check the levels again tonight, but can you please look at my tang's picture and tell me what (if anything) I should be doing for him?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
C from the Bronx
<Read on WWM re Ammonia, Nitrite... be careful re feeding till your system is cycled... Bob Fenner>

Re: A problem with my Yellow Tang  4/7/08
Thank you Bob for your feedback, WWM is really informative and I'm glad you and the crew offer to help us out.
Just wanted to update you on what I've done.
I made a 20 % water change that evening and didn't feed them until after I checked my levels the next day.
Since the ammonia and nitrite levels were still off (0.25 ammonia and 0.2 nitrite), I called a LFS (because I hadn't received a response from WWM at the time) and explained the situation and they told me to purchase a product called BioSpira
<Sound advice>
and add it to the tank after making another 15 gallon water change. They also recommended I feed them twice a day every other day.
<But very little... again, see WWM re these nitrogenous issues>
As for the erosion on my Tang they recommended I buy a product called Fish Solution which I am to add the tank every few days.
<Mmm, no... Not warranted. The real/root cause of your problem is environmental... Fixing this will fix the Tang... the "med" will cause more cycling establishment forestalling...>
I'm at work right now, but when i get home I'll check the water levels and then feed.
Again thanks for getting back to me.
<Welcome my friend. BobF>

Re: A problem with my Yellow Tang  4/7/08
Hi Again, I searched WWM for the articles on Ammonia and Nitrites, but when I click on both links the page reads "to be placed." Will reading through the FAQ's give me the needed information?
<Yes... and thank you for this reminder... there are a (large) number of "pieces" to be and already written that need to be placed... Including bits of books... and a HUGE number of "pending" articles that have to be left out till they run in the pulp press. Cheers! B>

Yellow Tang With Strange Spot – 03/27/08
Thank you for this great service that you provide.
<<We’re pleased to be here>>
I have used this site many times, but this is my first post, so I will do my best.
<<Okay>>
My problem is that my yellow tang has a strange spot on his back at the base of the dorsal fin a little smaller than a dime. He has had it for about 5 days and it appears it might be getting worse.
<<Hmm…>>
I included photos from five days ago and today as you seem to always request photos.
<<Yes, I see them…thank you for this. The cliché certainly rings true here…a photo is worth a thousand words. It’s not always the case, nor does simply providing a photo mean we’ll have an answer…but in many cases we aren’t able to provide an informed opinion based on description alone>>
It started as a gray spot, and is not getting darker. He shows no signs of stress or weakness. He is very active and has a tremendous appetite.
<<Good signs>>
I have soaked all his food in Selcon since I noticed the spot. I have searched for many hours and can't find anything like it. I have to conclude that it is likely poor environment or nutrition but don't know what I should do.
<<Maybe so, but I’m inclined to think this is a physical trauma...and secondary infection. Optimizing its environment/water quality/diet is about as best as you can do here>>
I have a 35 gallon tank with skimmer and mechanical/carbon filter.
<<John… This tank needs to be At LEAST TWICE this size for the long-term good health of the Tang. If the fish is kept in this tank, I predict this problem now to be only the first of many…until the fish’s ultimate demise>>
I have ample live rock and many small corals.
<<And no room for this (any!) Tang in this tank>>
His tank mates are a yellow watchman goby, 2 small clowns, and a red velvet wrasse.
<<Over stocked, mate>>
There is no hostility among them at all. The SG is 1.024, pH 8.3, calcium 400, Alk is "good" according to test kit,
<<Mmm…get a better test kit that gives you real values (Salifert, Seachem, etc.)>>
temp goes from 75 to 80 when the lights shut off. The NO2, NO3, ammonia are 0. I do weekly water changes of 5 gallons. I feed the tang Spirulina flakes daily. Once a week, but on different days he gets Mysis shrimp soaked in Selcon and macro algae on a clip also soaked in Selcon.
<<You’re starving your fish…and they need a broader diet than this. Consider adding a premium flake food, as well as New Life Spectrum pellets to their diet. And do feed your fishes well “every day”>>
I now know the tank is too small for him in the long run.
<<It’s too small now, my friend. “Growing up” in a too small environment will be/is already taking a toll>>
I will find a more suitable home for him if I can nurse him back to health.
<<You have it backwards, mate…finding the fish a more suitable home WILL nurse it back to health>>
For full disclosure, 6 days ago, my red velvet wrasse had a swollen/cloudy eye and puffiness under the eye.
<<Telling…>>
He was spooked out of the tank a week before and I assume he got the infection from being on the ground or me throwing him back in. I added Melafix to the water to treat the infection.
<<Like the Tang…the best cure is improved water quality and diet>>
The treatment required that I turn off my skimmer and my carbon filtration. The next day his eye looked better so I discontinued use of the Melafix. I did a 5 gallon water change and turned my filters back on, opting for better water quality over the treatment.
<<Indeed>>
However, the wrasse's scales looked strange in that they had a whitish appearance at the back edges and protruded away from his body. I think the discoloration was the effect of light going through the scales. This is the same day I first noticed the spot on the tang. The following day the wrasse was back to normal and the tang looked the same. Now, a few days later the spot has darkened and grown slightly and the wrasse is back to normal. I have done 5 gallon water changes every other day and lowered the SG to 1.022.
<<Why? Based on what? Best not to “guess.” I would raise this back to NSW levels>>
I don't believe it is a parasite, or related to the wrasse's condition, but I'm not sure.
<<I think your first guess was more intuitive than I thought…poor environment and poor nutrition>>
I don't want to stress the tang with unnecessary QT if it is not required. Please help.
<<If your water quality is optimum and you improve the fishes diet it may recover…but ultimately, “all” your fishes need a bigger home>>
Thank you, John.
<<Happy to share. EricR>>

Yellow tang with strange spot (before photo) - 03/27/08
This is the photo from 5 days ago. I didn't want to send them in the same email in case it was too big. Thank you, John.
<<Ah okay, thank you...though I think it would have been fine. EricR>>

"Send in another victim of industrial disease"

Yellow tang with severely damaged dorsal fin, Inappropriate Housing 1/17/08
Hello,
<Hi>
I am quite familiar with your website and have used it extensively in the past. I have also tried to find the answer to this question. Others have posted similar questions regarding their yellow tangs; however, the damage to my tang appears significantly worse. I am enclosing a photo.
<Does not look too good for sure.>
I have a 20 gal tank with live rock.
<The ultimate root of all your problems, tangs simply can not be kept in
such small tanks, they need by far larger quarters.>
We have about 6 hermit crabs, a few snails and a starfish. We also have a blue regal tang who has been in the tank the longest.
<Too many tangs in too small of a tank leads to stress which leads to a suppressed immune system which leads to an unhealthy fish, and also
psychological/behavioral problems too boot.>
We added the small yellow tang. After the small yellow tang was successfully acclimated, we added 2 percula clown fish.
<Too much life for a 20G tank.>
All are eating quite well. I feed them primarily frozen "brine shrimp plus," which is a variety pack.
<Their main diet should be algae based, too much animal protein is not good for them.>
I also give them mysis shrimp, but they are not so fond of that.
<Not surprising.>
Every other day, I'll give them new life spectrum or bio blend tiny pellets in addition to the frozen food.
<The New Life should be made their dietary staple.>
Because the tangs are herbivores, I give them algae every day.
<Good>
I am extremely agitated that the yellow tang's dorsal fin is ragged and appears to be getting worse, not better, with each passing day. I do watch these fish, and I see no outward aggression. What is happening?
<Not enough room for these fish, being cramped and in close proximity to another tang are causing all sorts of health problems. On the reef these fish measure their territory in yards, even when quite small, and need this space to be healthy. In captivity a Yellow tank should be in at least a 4 foot long tank, a Regal needs 6 feet of swimming space to be healthy.>
I keep a pretty clean tank, although I have always had a problem with algae (who doesn't) and clean it once a month.
<Water changes weekly or more often is most likely necessary to help get
these fish healthy at least temporarily.>
The water always tests almost perfect for all conditions.
<Almost perfect? Numbers please.>
I want all my fish to be happy. What am I doing wrong?
<Poor stocking choices honestly, the tangs can not be happy in a 20G tank, it just goes against their instinctual behavior.>
What can I do to help the little yellow tang? I'm frightened for it. Are the clown fish attacking it?
<Good water quality, good foods, and a larger home would go far in helping it get healthy.>
Sharon Donahue
<Chris>

Re: Yellow tang with severely damaged dorsal fin, Inappropriate Housing 1/18/08
Thank you.
<Welcome>
Actually, we were planning on purchasing a new tank anyway. We will get a larger one.
<Good but expensive.>
The one that looked appealing was SeaClear, which is significantly longer than what we have now and a third larger in volume.
<Hmm, you need a tank 100+ gallons to keep both of these tangs for their
entire life, a small upgrade will not help significantly.>
In the meantime, I'll clean the tank more frequently. My only reservation was when I did that after my one fish had ich, some other fish died. Puzzled, I asked my marine biologist at our fish store, and he told me that too frequent water changes can be bad for the fish since it can deplete the water of the necessary bacteria.
<Frequent small water changes, 20% to 30% are almost always beneficial, and the bacteria you are trying to culture is not in the water, but lives on the surfaces of the LR, glass, and substrate, water changes will not effect them.>
I understand your answer regarding the feeding. I give the brine shrimp plus since I have the clown fish, too, to feed.
<Brine shrimp really has very little nutritional value, mostly water.>
Right now, I understand variety is best but it is hard to give the optimal nutrients
when you have herbivores and carnivores. The New Life drops so quickly that the percula don't get a chance to eat much of it.
<Could feed less but more often to combat this, but the prepared food will provide the nutrition that the fish need.>
Thank you again for the speedy response. I'll do my best.
<That's all we can do.>
I feel terrible.
<A learning experience.>
I do have children, and I take care of my fish almost like I do my own kids.
It is hard not to love both.
<Empathy is a trait not seen often enough today.>
S. Donahue,
<Chris>

Re: Yellow tang with severely damaged dorsal fin 1/21/08
Well, now I've finally stopped a long crying fit. I'm absolutely beside myself even after my children have tried to console me. My little yellow guy with the long cute nose (my lovely tang), is NOT eating this morning.
<Sorry to hear, not a good sign.>
I did a meticulous cleaning yesterday, large water change, and the tank looked (and tested) beautiful.
<You never want to be meticulous cleaning your tank, its easy to remove to much of the beneficial bacteria throwing your water quality off.>
I turned the feeding regime upside down, per your suggestion, so that the main staple was the New Life Spectrum. Prior to the water change, the yellow guy ate these pretty well. But he (or she?) has simply gotten less and less happy. Plus, much to my dismay, the little guy has redness on one side. I'm suspecting an infection.
<Could be, make sure to test your water again.>
This morning, the little guy would NOT eat and lacks energy. I tried everything. The three other fish are getting very fat. The yellow guy won't even go for the algae. I take this very personally, and I think I'm killing it.
<Unfortunately that is how most of us learn anything in this hobby.>
So, in the best interests of my little guy, I think I should take it back to the store where it can go into a hospital tank and perhaps get better.
<Could, may also be wise to invest in one yourself, does not and should not be a permanent tank, just set up for when you need it.>
The current environment is clearly killing it. Would changing its environment be even worse?
<Hard to say at this point, but sounds like leaving him is not really an option.>
I would ask that the store keep my little guy knowing it is....for the best (cry, cry, cry!!!!!) Why is this so difficult for me - the tears don't stop.
S. Donahue, SGT
<Probably best to return him to the store if you can, may be able to recover there. Best of luck.>
<Chris>

Re: Yellow tang with severely damaged dorsal fin, Inappropriate Housing 1/21/08
Chris,
<Hello>
My last e-mail to you on this. I would have written yesterday, but I was far to broken up. I was in mourning all day long. Clearly, my little guy died.
<Sorry>
Intermittent bouts of sobbing only annoyed my husband, who did not understand when there were far larger issues going on in the world.
Luckily, my son and girls understood and empathized. My eyes burn badly today and it is difficult to focus on the work I need to do (I'm in aerospace).
<Interesting field.>
My husband wants me to get rid of the tank since clearly any death is painful for me. But, as you indicated, it is a learning experience.
<As is everything in life, learn and improve.>
I am very organized, and meticulous. I'll do precisely what you said regarding the water. Every single week. Fortunately, the remaining fish are very plump from all the feeding I was doing trying to get my yellow guy healthy. Now I think I probably need to cut back on the amount and frequency of food and clean the tank in a few days to get rid of any debris.
<Don't go overboard on the cleaning, water changes and cleaning the filters should be enough.>
Incidentally, what is your position on a product called liquid gravel vac?
<If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.>
I have not relied exclusively on this, but have used it occasionally.
<I would not bother, regular water changes and filtering should be enough.>
Thank you again for your help. I only wish I had my little guy back. He was so very, very, very cute.
<Quite lovely fish, I encourage you to go see them in the wild, spectacular.>
Sharon
<My fiancé is quite the same way, takes every death very personally, and I too have said that maybe it was not the hobby for her, but she has stuck with it and become quite successful, and you can as well. I encourage you to read our marine articles and maybe pick up a up to date book if you have not, Bob's being quite fantastic to be honest and quite readable, or several others including some great works by Michael S. Paletta and John H. Tullock.>
S. Donahue, SGT
<Chris>

Re: Yellow tang with severely damaged dorsal fin 1/23/08
Chris,
<Hello>
I do see these beautiful fish in the wild every year! I go to Aruba. Well, I don't see the tiny tangs, but I do see quite a variety of beautiful fish
in the reefs. Not Australia, but it is quite lovely.
<Excellent, never been to Australia but the tangs in Hawaii are quite nice. Trying to plan a dive trip to Bonaire which is close to Aruba.>
One year a parrot fish bit my calf.
<Ouch>
Thank you for all the support. I'm actually planning to do a water change today.
<Very good>
I'll read some more on the subject, although I've been focusing most of my reading time these past 5 years on Buddhism.
<Interesting.>
So, I can take a break and do more learning on this. I did for a short time to learn more about the hermit crabs about a year back.
Thanks again. I still miss my little guy. Sharon.
<Welcome and good luck.>
<Chris>
S. Donahue, SGT