Figure 8 Puffer Question - 6/6/6
Dear WWM Crew,
<<Hi Ronald.>>
Thank you for this great source of help.  I recently moved the inhabitants of my 37 gallon hexagon tank into a 75 gallon tank.  I have the 37 gallon tank in my office and would like to restart it with something different, and I am considering a Figure 8 Puffer.
<<Very cool puffer.>>
I have read the articles on your site and it seems that they do best as the only Puffer in the tank.
<<Figure 8’s in general are better with their own kind than some other species.>>
My question is, are there any other fish that I could add to the tank with the Figure 8, or would he need to be the only fish in the tank.
<<Some recommend Bumblebee and Knight gobies, but it is really hit or miss.  Orange Chromides are my choice, but not for the ‘tall’ style tank you have.>>
I realize that they are a brackish fish, and I am looking forward to using some of the decorations from my old marine tank.
<<In your tank, I’d think two figure eights and perhaps some gobies will be fine.  Check out www.thepufferforum.com for more information on caring for your puffers.>>
Thank you for your advice.
Ronald Boudreau
<<Glad to help. Lisa.>>

Figure Eight Puffer - Bored?  4/29/06
Hello WWM Crew,
Thank you so much, Bob Fenner, for your very helpful response to a previous question I had sent in with regards to my Columbian Sharks. They are really thriving.
<Actually, Pufferpunk here today.>
I do have another question but this time about my F8 puffer. First a brief history. My F8 and Columbian Sharks (Hexanematichthys seemanni) were in a 20 gallon tank together but my F8 bit off all the sharks' fins. My sharks are now in a separate tank, the brackish water of which is gradually being to marine levels as the sharks grow.
<Great, I hope much larger...>
At first my naughty F8 was delighted when my sharks left his tank - he swam all around the tank investigating every nook and cranny. However, a couple of weeks later and ever since then, he has been swimming up and down the same area of glass. So I decided to add more decoration to his tank in case he were bored. To no avail. So I decided to completely change the decoration. The decoration now
includes large live java ferns throughout the aquarium with large rocks placed here and there and a large piece of driftwood that he could swim under - but doesn't. I've tried to make his tank exciting for him. The tank is cycled and at a specific gravity of 1.005. 20% water changes are done every 2 to 3 days, ammonia is 0, nitrites are 0, nitrate is under 20, kH is 80 (although the colour on the test for 40 is so close it is hard to tell which it is), and pH is 7.4 (but again I find it hard to tell which colour it is closest to, so it may be 7.8).
<It sounds like you are taking excellent care of your puffer!  To keep the pH at a steady level of around 8, it is recommended to use crushed coral or aragonite substrate.>
My puffer eats well and always has a very slightly rounded belly. His colours are vibrant and his underbelly is white. So he seems very healthy. I wonder if you would have any suggestions on how to make my fish's life more exciting? Do you think that maybe he didn't like the 'sharks' but would still like some other company? Perhaps another F8 or some other brackish fish?
<You don't have room for another F8 but you could try a few bumblebee gobies. You can't always trust a puffer though--even the more mild-mannered species, like the F8.  I have 2 F8s in a 29g, started out with 6 BBGs & now have 1.>
If so, what fish would you suggest?  I certainly don't want them to suffer the same peril as the 'sharks'.
<Exactly what I was saying--you just can't trust a puffer!>
And would another F8 be okay in the 20 gallon or should I get a larger tank and if so what size?
<15g for the 1st F8 & 10g for every 1 added.>
Do you think there is some decoration missing from my tank that would interest him more?
<Many folks have added Habitrail tubes to their tank.>
Sorry about all these questions. I do feel at a loss right now. I really do value the excellent information and help that you provide us on your incredible website. As I mentioned in my previous  e-mail, I have spent hours and hours and hours and hours reading your site.  You really do provide a wonderful service and with such excellent expertise.
Thank you so much.
<You're doing a great job--stop by  at www.thepufferforum.com for some more puffertalk!  ~PP>
With much appreciation, Sandra

Treating Puffers with Ich  3/24/06
<Hi Brolin , Pufferpunk here.>
I recently (over a week ago), purchased 3 figure-eight pufferfish from Wal-Mart.  
<I wouldn't purchase toilet paper from them.>
I know but I couldn't stand seeing such wonderful fish waste away.
<Just encouraging them to buy more, since they see these fish sell.>
They were already covered in ich.  
<Never buy sick fish.>
I chose three that seemed to have lots of energy.  I have cured ich in fish before and figured I could do the same with these puffers.  I have tried so many combinations of treatments and none have seemed to work.  I have been treating them with Quick Cure Ick (a formalin and malachite green solution).  I've added salt and raised the temperature and increased aeration, to prevent anoxic conditions.  I do a 50% H2O change if not once a day, every other day but the cysts on the fish have seemed to double the in the last two days.  
<Bump that up to 80% daily.  Bare-bottom tank is best.>
The fish still have a tremendous appetite, so I feel that there is still hope.
<That is a good sign.  Sometimes it looks worse, before it gets better.>
I was thinking about switching aquariums everyday until the fish are cured and thoroughly clean the previous tank but I didn't want to stress the fish out more and make them more susceptible.  
<That does sound stressful.>
I also have Clout, but it says not to use it on scaleless fish.  
<I wouldn't use it then.>
I was also wandering what kind of filtration would be good to have going?  I am currently running an undergravel filter with a power head and a power filter with just a fiber cartridge, no activated
carbon. If I switch aquariums, should I just not use any rocks or substrate?
<Bare bottom, simple filtration is best for a QT.>
Please help!  I truly appreciate it, and so do my fish!!
<Sounds like you are doing everything possible for these poor fellas.  Check here, to see if you missed anything:
http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9
Check out that forum too!  ~PP>
Thanks and God Bless, Brolin Evans

Care & Feeding of Figure 8 Puffer  3/19/06
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I recently purchased a figure eight puffer at Wal-Mart for my son and I.  We  have another tank with an Oscar and Pleco. I bought our figure eight without doing the proper research. After bringing him home I started looking on the net and realized I didn't have the right foods for him. I have read some of your answers for what to feed, the problem is I don't know where to get the food.  
<Appropriate Puffer Foods: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/food.html>
I live close to a river and see small snails all the time.  Will these be ok?
<I wouldn't suggest feeding these directly to your puffer, although they would make excellent breeding stock.  
Breeding Snails: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/basicsnail.html & http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/basicsnail.html >
Also  I would like to buy fast breeding snails but don't know what type of snails they are. Please help Bubbles (that is what my son named him) or he is going to starve.
<Figure 8 article: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/f8puffer.html  
Also, check out the puffer forum those articles are in.  ~PP>

Keeping mollies in Saltwater  3/19/06
Hello,
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I was wondering what mollies could be  kept in full salt water.
<Yes they can.  You must acclimate them slowly or start them in freshwater & raise the specific gravity no more than .002/week.>
Can you keep figure 8 puffers in full salt water?
<F8 puffers are best kept in low-end brackish water, of a SG around 1.005.  See: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/f8puffer.html >
What about feeder guppies?
<Guppies are freshwater fish.  HTH ~PP>
Thanks for the  help.

Care & Feeding of Figure 8 Puffers  2/19/06
Hi,
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I'm looking into getting figure eights but I want to make sure everything is right, like what kind of salt and to make sure I have set up my tank right. I have asked around at the LFS and they tell me to use aquarium salt, But other people say to use marine. The LFS said I should have about 1 teaspoon to every 5 gallon is this right?
<You must use marine salt & measure with a hydrometer.  After some experimentation, I have calculated I use around a cup of salt/5gal to make a SG (specific gravity) of 1.005 (rough estimate).  That is where they seem to be most comfortable & live longest.>
I have been looking info up on the F8s all night and just want to know how to start and maintain a brackish water tank. Thank you for your help. Love the site.
<Check out this article on F8s: http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/f8puffer.html.  Check out the puffer site that article is in too!  There is great info on the special food they need to eat to keep their teeth trimmed & plenty of folks to talk to about your puffer, before & after you purchase it.  ~PP>

Figure 8's with Ick  2/10/06
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I just  lost a figure out to Ick a few days ago, and I got two  more that I set up in a separate tank until I completely get the other  one clean.  My two new ones now are starting to get Ick and I  tried the Ick Cure (blue stuff) on the last guy and it did  NOTHING.  I noticed the pet store I work in carries a medicine for ornamental fish that is suppose to kill all parasites and Ick, would  that be a good thing to try?...if not what should I do because I don't  want to loose another puffer, especially not within a week of buying  the 2 new ones?
<http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9  ~PP>

How Many Puffers can a Pickled Person Pick?  1/6/05
Hi Guys,
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I was just wandering how many figure 8 puffers one can keep in a std 3 ft (about 90L) aquarium. Great Site.
<Well, since I'm in the US, I've converted that to about 23 gallons.  You can keep 2 figure 8s in there.  Here's a great article on them:  http://www.thepufferforum.com/articles/puffer/f8puffer.html  ~PP>
Howard Snoyman

Pufferfish Aggression  1/4/06
<Hi, Pufferpunk again>
Our green spots are the most passive of the puffers we own...
<They are juvies now... Just wait till they mature & one morning you wake up with maimed or dead fish.>
We have the salinity levels between what the figure eights and greens spots need and there is a level which both can live in.
We bought all the fish in 1.010 and that is what they are now in...
<Figure 8s are best kept at 1.005 for life.  GSPs will eventually need marine conditions.  LFS rarely know what is best for puffers.>
This particular green spot has gotten sick on several occasions where as the other green spot and the figure eights don't get sick. The red-eye and the dwarf are now in their own tank.
<You're not worried about the red-eye killing the dwarf?  Puffers are best kept in species only tanks.  The species are not to be mixed.>
The first time the green spot got sick he had gill disease and this time he had something that medications did not cure... So far I have found that the most aggressive of all is the red-eye, contrary to what every website I have read has said.
<It is possible that your red-eye is the more aggressive lorteti. They are almost impossible to tell apart.  As you have already witnessed, puffers have their own personality & levels of aggression.  Hence keeping species & sometimes individuals separate.  I know of puffers that had previously gotten along with it's tank mates, only to wake up one morning to it being the only survivor of a massacre.  Have you read the profiles & articles I linked you to?  I highly suggest that you do.  They are written by the top puffer experts in the world!  ~PP>

Color Change in Puffers - 11/26/2005
I recently bought 2 figure 8's, and by their actions they seem to be doing fine; good appetite, and very active.  When they were introduced to their first tank (44 gal hex tank), one fish was less distinctive in its markings than the other, less contrast between the yellow and green/brown.  After a time I was required to move them to a 10 gal holding tank, as they took a liking to Colombian shark fins... .
<This should have been researched/expected....>
This is just a temporary change until larger accommodations can be set up....  But a strange thing happened, the pale fish became more distinct in its coloration and the other became more pale (for lack of a better term). Is this stress issue, a display of dominance, sleep coloration?  As I have stated they eat well and are active (the small tank is set up to have a current, and they seem to enjoy riding it, but rest in the plants (artificial) during the nights. Their bellies are white (no darker coloration) and the mid line of their bodies does not look like a gray line.  Also the
coloration of the one that is less distinct seems to become more defined over night....  If they had both reacted the same way, or showed other signs of stress or illness, I would not be so  confused.... any thoughts?  
<Brian, I'm going to assume here that nothing is really "wrong"....  But to be safe, I want to caution you to test ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, and be sure to maintain ammonia and nitrite at ZERO, nitrate less than 20ppm, with water changes.  Fish do change color with time, and puffers are very, very expressive with color.  You've mentioned all the "problem" or "warning" colors are not present (bellies are white, etc.), so chances are this is nothing at all to be worried over.  I would hazard a guess that this may be an indication of pecking order....  but which is dominant I couldn't tell yah.  I would expect this coloration to continue to change slightly over time; you are probably more observant than many folks just in having noticed what you have.  Puffers are wonderful and exciting fish, very intelligent and enjoyable - I hope you have a great time with them!>
-Brian
<Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Figure 8 Puffer Not Well 10/22/05
Hey!
<Hey yourself, it's Pufferpunk here>
I want to say that I love your site and it helped me set up my tank very well. Right now I have a single figure eight puffer, 2 clown loaches, one fan tailed goldfish and two comet goldfish. Now I know what you are going to say "Goldfish shouldn't be in there" lol They will be out soon, its only temporary I have a tank coming for them in the next day or two.
<Took the words right outta my mouth! Neither should the loaches.>
But these goldfish are actually doing amazing in this environment growing rapidly.
<I bet your poor puffer hates it in there though...>
They will be out soon though. I have a 10 gallon tank with a 25W heater (a little small I know), there is sand for substrate, a silicon anemone, medium plastic plant, plastic coral, a rock with hole in it and a small terra cotta plant pot. As well, I have a bubble wall set up under the sand. The clown loaches are acting amazing.
<Are you aware that clown loaches grow over a foot?>
The concern is about the puffer. He acts normal sometimes but I leave for school after feeding him in the morning and when I come home he is usually lying in the anemone or on the bottom just lying there. Is there anything wrong with him?
<He could be sleeping but I'd bet anything your water isn't nearly pristine enough for a puffer to live happily in there. The goldfish are huge waste/ammonia producers & that does not make for a healthy puffer.>
As well I have a filter good for 20 gals and it has BioMax in it.
<Extra filtration is necessary for puffers, as they are messy eaters & high waste producers themselves.>
I have had the tank set-up for 2 weeks, then I changed the substrate (learned about the toxic rocks from Wal-Mart), then it had been set-up for a week. So the filter media, plants and
all have not had the bacteria disturbed.
<It is best to use crushed coral or aragonite as substrate for BW fish, as this keeps the pH around a steady 8.>
Is this puffer ok? I want to know what to do. I am buying a Master Test Kit soon--sorry for the lack of water quality info, I know you like to have it. I do a 20-40% change every 4-6 days.
<That's helpful>
The tank is very clear and no bad smells. I have had the water tested at different periods by the pet store and they said it was great water. Trace amounts of ammonia, they said extreme trace amounts, and a PH of 7.2.
<There should never be any ammonia in a fish's water. PH of BW tanks should be around 8. The goldfish are causing the ammonia & lower pH.>
I use aquarium salt, 1.5 teaspoons for the tank.
<You must use marine salt in a BW tank. F8s like the specific gravity to be around 1.005 & must be measured with a hydrometer.>
As well he seems to attack the planter and the anemone, he will rub his chin on it curl his tail and flick very fast away, like an attack. Please any help would be good. Thanks for your time, keep up the good work.
<Check out this article & the forum it is in: http://www.thepufferforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=64  ~PP> 

Figure Eight Puffer - A Follow-up? - 10/24/05
Hey again!
<Yup, Pufferpunk again>
Thanks for the great response. Right now I do not have the resources for a brackish water tank. After Christmas maybe but definitely not now. I was wondering if taking the goldfish out would make a difference to the water quality
<Absolutely!>
and I also had NO idea about the clown loaches, how long does it take them to grow that long?
<Mine are about 6" & I've had then for around 3 years.>
When they get too big I believe I will bring them back and trade for smaller ones or some different fish.
<Not to live with the puffer or goldfish, I hope.>
The puffer is seeming more active since I have added the aquarium salt though but he stays near the top playing the bubble wall.
<Puffers love to play in bubbles! I think the aq salt is really not making much of a real difference. You need a lot of marine salt to make BW. For example, to make a SG of 1.005 (which is preferred by F8s), it takes roughly around 1 cup of marine salt/5g of water.>
And I had the water tested again, I guess the tank is close to done cycling because the ammonia is gone and the nitrites are gone. I use Cycle, the beneficial bacteria solution--I think that sped the process up.
<Actually Cycle is junk & can actually slow the process of cycling down, by adding DEAD bacteria (waste) to your tank.>
I read all the articles that you have linked to below and some that the linked ones linked to but I would like to know any tips about keeping him or her in freshwater for now.
<1 puffer alone in a 10g tank, pristine water conditions (50% weekly water changes), crushed coral or aragonite substrate, to keep the water hard & the pH around a steady 8. Why couldn't you just add marine salt to that? I'm afraid if you don't remove the goldfish, your tank will never completely cycle.>
I know that they can live in freshwater very well but I guess its better in brackish water.
<If 5 years of life in FW, compared to the 18+ years they can live in BW is considered "very Well" to you...>
Thanks again, I am Doug by the way and I live in St. John's Newfoundland, Canada
<Get those GF out of your puffer tank! Good luck with your fish. ~PP (hailing from the Chicago area)>