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FAQs on Centropyge Angelfishes Disease Diagnosis  

FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease: Dwarf Angel Disease 1, Dwarf Angel Disease 2, Dwarf Angel Disease 3, Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt,
FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease by Category: Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Pathogenic, Genetic, Treatments

Related Articles: Centropyge Angels, C. loricula/Flame Angel, Lemon/y Dwarf Angels, A Couple of Lemons; the True and False/Herald's (nee Woodheadi) Centropyges, Potter's Angels, Reef Safari! Keeping Multibarred Angelfish By Alexander Thomasser,

Related FAQs: Best FAQs on Centropyge, Centropyge Angels 1, Centropyge Angels 2Centropyge Angels 3, Centropyge Angels 4, Dwarf Angel Identification, Dwarf Angel Selection, Dwarf Angel Compatibility, Dwarf Angel Systems, Dwarf Angel Feeding, Dwarf Angel Reproduction,

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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health 12/10/09
Hi everyone
<Hello Michelle>
I was hoping maybe one (or more) of you could help me out.
<Will try.>
I have a 75 gallon FOWLR setup going for three months now. I just recently added a Flame Angel and three days later he died. My levels seem to be good with zero of ammonia and nitrite, and 30 of nitrate along with around
8-8.1pH. The water has A LOT of circulation along with aeration and about 50lbs. of live rock. I noticed that this flame was unbelievably healthy at the store and then seemed to become sluggish after a day in my tank. He was breathing VERY heavy for the last two days before he died (what is the cause of this?). Do I have parasites that aren't causing any white spots?
I do have a UV running to at least help with the parasite potential. The only other thing I was thinking was that my salt level was about .012 when I added him. I was had the salt low to help fight off some Ich a few months back. I did acclimate him very slowly for about 2.5 hours upon arrival to my display tank. Could the rapid breathing be caused by shock from major salinity differences from the fish store tank to mine? Your feedback would be of great assistance. Along with telling me what I did wrong and/or what I could have done different, please answer my questions (along with possible reasons as to why this fish may have been acting in such a manner) also if you could.
<First off, your tank is too "young" to introduce a Flame Angel.
Secondly, they appreciate pristine water quality, and with a nitrate level of 30ppm in a young tank, something here is amiss.
A protein skimmer is a must in marine systems and you did not mention the use of one. Skimmers are a great boon in increasing water quality by removing excess nutrients thereby lowering nitrate levels. Environmental stress is likely what caused the death of your Flame Angel and the large change in salinity over a short period of time just added to the problem. Under stress, these angel species are highly susceptible to Brooklynella and Oodinium infections, and it is possible the later may have occurred. Did you notice any tan to blackish small dusty dots on the fish?>
Thanks a bunch,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Michelle
Re Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health 12/12/09

No, no black or white spots at all. If I had velvet wouldn't my other fish have it too?
<Not necessarily.><<RMF strongly disagrees. All fishes would very likely be infested>>
And you think it's a possibility that the heavy breathing was caused by salinity changes and/or nitrates, or do you think it's most likely a parasite?
<The lowered salinity was likely the onset of environmental stress.>
And wouldn't the UV help a little bit with it, if it indeed was?
<No.>
I am using a canister filter with bio balls and ceramic rings along with a sand substrate. Should I change any of this to minimize nitrates or can I leave it all alone and just purchase a protein skimmer?
<If you have a good deal of live rock, I'd remove portions of the bio balls and ceramic rings. They can promote nitrates because of their efficiency at denitrification.>
And if so, which skimmer do you recommend for a 90gal that is affordable? I don't want to spend much more than $100.
<That's a tough one there especially since it has to be a hang-on type. If I were on a budget, I'd likely go with the CPR Cyclone BAK-PAK"¢ 2R+.
See here. http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CPR-2R&Category_Code=Bakpak.
 You may want to pose the skimmer question on one or more of the bulletin boards, will see other folks opinions on skimmers in this price range. James (Salty Dog)>
Re Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health 12/12/09

Thanks James.
<You're welcome, Michelle.>
I have a little over 50lbs. of live rock in my 90, is that sufficient enough to take out some bio balls and rings?
<Yes, when you clean your filter every week, remove 25% of them. Also would help by adding another 20 pounds
of live rock. James (Salty Dog)> 
Re Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health 1/10/10

Hey guys,
<Jason>
I forwarded this previous email so you would have an idea of what my situation is/was.
<Is appreciated.>
At this point in time, since almost every remedy for parasites failed, I will have to let my tank "go fallow". I discovered through research and everyone's' help here at WWM.com, that I do in fact have a very aggressive strain of Velvet in my tank. All of my fish are on their way out and the ones that are living through it I will take to the local pet store. My question is: Which number of weeks do you think is necessary to eradicate this parasite from my tank, 6 or 8? I want to be absolutely SURE that the life cycle of this parasite is over and finished before adding anymore fish. Is 8 weeks even long enough or shall I wait longer? And is this "fallow" remedy enough to completely eradicate the parasite from my tank considering there are no hosts for it?
<Six to eight weeks is recommended. I've seen an article where this process could be sped up (2 weeks) by elevating the temperature to 95 degrees,
but I would play it safe and go 8 weeks.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Jason
Re Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health 1/10/10
Ok thanks James, but will this 8 week period eradicate the parasite from my system considering there are no hosts?
<As Mr. Fenner states in his article, "None of these is 100% effective in eradicating Amyloodinium from a system."
Read here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm James (Salty Dog)>
Re Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health 1/11/10

Hey, something I forgot to ask.......won't the 55lbs. worth of live rock in my tank act as a host for the Velvet? Or is it fish only? I plan on leaving my live rock and sand bed in there, will this be ok through the fallow period or will it decrease my chances of eradicating the parasite?
<No, the parasites will require the fish to survive through another complete cycle. Leaving your rock and sand bed will not only be fine, but likely be optimal.>
Thanks
<Glad to help! -JustinN> 

Coral Beauty and Flame Angel Mystery Deaths: Possible Cyanide in Collection Need some more details 6/28/2009
Hi,
<Hi Dan.>
Searched through the site and I have an odd one for you.
<I do love a puzzle.>
We have an established 125 gal tank Water tested normal.
<Please, "normal" does not tell me anything. Actual numbers are what we need.>
Tank has been up about 18 months. Stock is Cleaner shrimp, 3 Peppermint shrimp, Watchman goby, Purple tang, Clarkii clown, Royal Gramma, Strawberry Pseudochromis, 2 Chromis, Blue Damsel, Yellow tail Damsel, Clown wrasse, and a purple lobster.
Running 2 1500 Cascade filters 24/7, close to 40lbs of live rock.
<Are you running a protein skimmer?>
Tank is peaceful and all get along. My girlfriend (GF from here on) bought a Coral beauty and a Flame angel. Put them in the tank and they were eating about 3 hours later. (introduced properly by mixing water and temperature balancing.)
<No quarantine? At the very least, you can do a dip. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm >
They were both eating great and picking at rocks. 3 weeks later they both die on the same day. No signs of stress or damage on the bodies.
<How long did the fish store have these fish before you bought them?>
The Beauty had Ick when we first got it, but it seemed to clear up with the cleaner shrimp and Garlic extreme that was recommend by our LFS.
<Ok.>
We went to the LFS and they agreed to replace both fish.
<Very generous fish store.>
We had them hold the new fish for 1 month and had them both freshwater dipped, twice. Both fish came home after the month looking great.
<Are you sure they were the same fish? Unless it is a fish that is known for dropping dead "mysteriously" like some of the large Angels, or some of the Butterfly fish, it is better to quarantine at home.>
We acclimatized them and into the tank they went. Once again they were eating well and we got special
angel frozen food. (The frozen cube type, we feed Mysis, brine, Cyclops, plankton. We also feed seaweed on a clip) Once again 3 weeks to the day, just like before, they died on the same day. 4 fish all lasted 3 weeks (21 days) then died. No signs of stress or damage.
<Do you know where the fish came from?>
We have had no other fish deaths (except for suicides from jumping out of the tank.) The only variable is the temperature range of the tank. It can drift 76-80 during the course of the day.
<A bit excessive, but not likely to be a cause here.>
My GF really wants those 2 fish but we really don't want to be killing more of them. We have talked to all
the locals and no one had any ideas other then the tank might need a grounding strap.
<You can check for stray voltage with a volt meter between the tank water and a common ground. This is not likely the cause either.>
Any ideas?
<I can come up with three possible causes. 1. The fish were collected using cyanide, in which case, they were doomed from the start. 2. There is something in the tank that is killing them. Angels are more sensitive to nitrate than most. 3. Your local fish store had some bad\unhealthy fish get shipped in.>
<Do respond back with your testing results and any other information you can provide.>
Thanks,
<My Pleasure.>
Dan...
<MikeV>

Centropyge eibli - 10/18/06 Hi Wet Web Media Crew < Good day to you sir. > I have a question about my Centropyge eibli he has been in quarantine one month and about 3-4 days ago I moved him into the main tank.  He is about 1.5".  He is eating good.  I feed my tank Mysis shrimp, plankton, a carnivore mix, emerald entree( a mix of algae foods), squid, brine shrimp as in occasionally treat, flake food, an algae flake food, and a saltwater mix.  My Centropyge eibli  is not scratching, not lethargic, or do anything that would make you believe his is sick.  He just has these like blackish markings on him that I noticed 2 days ago.  They do not appear to be any worse.  There is no aggression towards the eibli in the tank.  These markings are black, I can not tell if they are on the inside of the body or his scales, but you can see them, they are pretty small and there is one on each side of his bodies in different places one by the upper dorsal fin and one around his torso area.  They almost look like scraps, but I am not sure.  I have read all the FAQs on disease and selection about Centropyge.  I just want to make sure this is not abnormal like they are just markings and no disease. Thanks for your quick response. < From what you describe I would not be too concerned. You may be observing a stress response from the move to the new tank, or healing wounds possibly received while trying to find a nice hiding spot in the rocks. Just observe for change and be prepared to pull it out if stops feeding, looks worse, shows signs of disease etc etc... > P.S. I could not get a picture of him because every time I would get close enough to take a pick he would come out of the rocks and dart back in because he saw me. < A good sign! Environmental awareness is a good indicator of health. Best of luck to you! - Emerson >
Centropyge eibli - 10/19/2006
Hi Wet Web Media Crew   <Hi MacL here with you today,> I have a question about my Centropyge eibli he has been in quarantine one month and about 3-4 days ago i moved him into the main tank.  He is about 1.5".  He is eating good.  I feed my tank Mysis shrimp, plankton, a carnivore mix, emerald entree( a mix of algae foods), squid, brine shrimp as in occasionally treat, flake food, an algae flake food, and a saltwater mix.  My Centropyge eibli is not scratching, not lethargic, or do anything that would make you believe his is sick.  He just has these like blackish markings on him that I noticed 2 days ago. These markings are black, I can not tell if they are on the inside of the body or his scales, but you can see them, they are pretty small and there is one on each side of his bodies in different places one by the upper dorsal fin and one around his torso area.  They almost look like scrapes, but I am not sure.  I have read all the FAQs on disease and selection about Centropyge.  I just want to make sure  this is not abnormal like they are just markings and no disease. Thanks for your quick response. P.S. I could not get a picture of him because every time I would get close enough to take a pick he would come out of the rocks and dart back in because he saw me. <It sounds like his behavior is normal. It could be where he has scratched himself as he's adjusting to the new tank. Bumping into things when he makes dashes or it could be an internal parasite as well. I wouldn't go into high worry mode until he stops eating or has more problems but I would cautiously watch him as well.  I really like eibli angels for their personalities after they settle. But I have seen some of the Centropyge have problems with parasites that manifest in this way. You feed a good mix and blend of food so that should help and with your tank stable that will help as well. I might consider adding garlic or some type of garlic food as a preventative, I've seen it work.  Should they become larger or more prominent some other type of action might be needed.>

Coral Beauty, Pimple on Pectoral Fin--Popped?  - 2/15/2006 (This is long, because there is a lot of background.  Per your WWM-etiquette page, that's how you want it, I hope.  The basic question is what I should do about a pimple that looks like it either became a whitehead or popped on my 3-4 week Coral Beauty in the Quarantine tank.) <Mmm, the basic response: No...> Hi.  Thanks so much for the site.  I spend several hours a week reading the site since finding it last summer (summer 2005).  Anyway, I have a 55 gallon display tank, and a 27 gallon QT, in which my problem arose.  (tank specs are below)  I only have (1) 4 1/2" Tang and a 5" Maiden Goby in my display tank (along with a sizeable cleaner crew).  Oh, I did add 5 Berghia Nudibranch(es?/i?) <Just "s"> about a month ago to take care of an Aiptasia problem, but I'm not sure if they are doing much or not-haven't seen them for about three weeks, but that's an aside.  Anyway, about a month ago I purchased 3 white and black striped Humbug Damsels and a Coral Beauty from my LFS. Basically, my wife has been harassing me for months that I need some more fish in my display tank, so I took her with me and let her pick out some suitable (to both of us) community fish.  The guy at the store said that Coral Beauties are super sensitive to changes in water, so I drip acclimated it for about 2 1/2 hours, and the Damsels for maybe an hour or so.  I did not do a freshwater bath, particularly for the Coral Beauty because I was concerned I was going to kill it due its alleged sensitivity, and because I really didn't know "how" to do it (had a couple casualties a year or two ago leading to this fear).  I just recently found that article on using Methylene Blue freshwater dips, so I'm set there for the future. The largest of the three Damsels began pestering the smaller two almost immediately upon putting them in the QT (I have about 7 pounds of LR, for hiding, etc.).  The day after I bought the fish, I noticed that the Coral Beauty had a 1/4" to 3/16" pink pimple looking thing where its left pectoral fin connects to its body (couple photos at the following URL, but it's not very photogenic). http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/russjohnson/album?.dir=850f&.src=ph&store=&pro did=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos <I see it, but just barely> I searched your site, and couldn't find anything that made me concerned about the pimple, so I just kept an eye on it.  I thought it may have been from a lack of iodine, because this tank had been fallow for at least two or three months (running, but with 1" of live sand, the rocks, a large Penguin Charcoal filter, and some snails).  My Tang got Ich in October '05, so I moved him and the Goby up there to treat-they both are happy now.  Other than a couple water changes, I really haven't touched the QT since they moved back downstairs to the display tank, so that's why I added some extra iodine and Kent's Essential Elements recently (about 5-20ml of each about 2-3 times a week).  I did change the QT water before adding the new fish and made sure the water quality was near perfect.  I thought the pimple may have been from a lack of iodine due to some reading on the site...again not sure, it was probably there when I bought it-moral of the story is I shouldn't let my wife pick out fish, but this whole process has really caused her to take some more interest in the fish, so that's a good thing, if nothing else. Quarantine Tank Specs: SG:  1.019 (I'm slowly raising it after Ich treatment) <Good... 1.025> Temp:  83 (again, lowering due to Ich treatment) pH:  8.2-8.3 Nitrates:  ~20 (yes, I was surprised, I'll do a 50% water change after this email; it was <10ppm about 10 days ago) Ammonia:  Zero Copper:  ~.5 to .75ppm <Get rid of this> Anyway, so about a week into the Quarantine, the pimple was unchanged, but the Coral Beauty had developed Ich (could it have been from not breaking the tank down?). <Likely the fish had it... the tank is parasitized...>   The big Damsel had already killed the smallest Damsel (now I know why they are called Humbugs), and will have killed the other one a couple days later.  Damsels all looked healthy otherwise, eating/swimming, so I'm pretty sure they died due to bullying (and I observed the relentless bullying).  As for the Coral Beauty, I figured that 3mo would have been long enough in the QT for the parasites to die and not worry about transmitting it to these new fish, but in the future I will break down this tank, to eliminate the possibility of Ich transmission.  My wife wants the top of her dresser back anyway, so everyone is happy.  As soon as I noticed the Ich spots develop, I began to treat with copper.  I'm pretty sure it was chelated copper (the kind that stays in the water longer), <If not the fishes would be dead at this concentration> but the package was silent on this fact.  I raised the copper level to 1.5ppm, and the Coral Beauty's condition worsened slightly over the next couple days. <Centropyge are more sensitive to copper exposure...>   I bumped it up to 2.0 for a week or so, and the Ich went completely away in about a week.  Oh, I should also mention that I added a week's worth of Maracyn-Two during that time, to eliminate the possibility of any secondary infection, based on some advice I read. The Ich on the Coral Beauty went completely away in about a week after bumping up the copper.  I checked the copper level about twice a day to verify it stayed at 2.0ppm.  After a week of the high copper levels I concluded (based on the advice on your site) that the Damsel developed copper poisoning (began swimming around erratically, the next day, swimming sideways a lot, sitting on the bottom of the tank, breathing hard, died after about 3 days of this).  Having to choose between the Coral Beauty and the Damsel, I chose to keep up the copper up to cure the Coral Beauty (the Coral Beauty had /just/ began to be free from the Ich spots, and I know I needed to keep up the levels another day or two, to be sure she was cured). About 7-10 days after all the symptoms went away, I added a new carbon filter and a couple days after that I filled up the plastic refillable sleeves in the filter with new carbon to get rid of the copper.  As noted, I am doing a water change tonight as well.  However, after coming home from out of town last night my wife said that she thought the Coral Beauty was getting Ich again.  It isn't, but here is my question-finally.  She was correct that something changed:  the pink pimple I mentioned earlier now looks just like an acne pimple that "popped".  The pimple had begun to shrink since the Ich was gone (now about 1/8 inch), and apparently over the weekend it "popped".  What my wife thought was the White Spot of Ich is definitely some sort of substance coming OUT of the pimple.  Am I just overly paranoid here?  I have read a couple articles were you guys wrote that sometimes fish just get pimple-type things and it's nothing to sweat. Should I cut the pizza and chocolate out of the Coral Beauty's diet?  (Heh, Heh, just kidding) <Mmm> I have searched and searched, is this something I should be concerned about? It is otherwise normal, eats everything I put in the tank  (she prefers anchovy pizza), and has cleaned off all the algae on the back of the tank, likes hiding out in the rocks, and seems happy.  In searching the site, I thought /maybe/ it was Lymphocystis, or a tumor (that's the other reason I was bumping up the Iodine so much).  I'm not sure it's Lymphocystis though. It seems that Lymphocystis usually attacks the ENDS of the fins, rather than the base of the fin.  Moreover, the white spot/puss, doesn't look like cauliflower (though frankly this isn't a helpful description, b/c if I ever let a growth on one of my fish get to the size that I could identify its shape as something other than a spot, I should not be keeping marine fish). I guess when I saw the white puss/spot at the tip of the pimple, I thought this was good as if it is popping, but I really have no idea of knowing without you guys' (and gals') help...what do you think? <This spot is/was likely "nothing" catching... a pimple is a good analogy> Should I get a cleaner shrimp for the QT? <You could> I think I read that the Lysmata are not reef safe, so I couldn't throw them in the display tank later, right?  What about the Periclimenes, or Stenopus? <Not my other choices here, no> There is a Peppermint shrimp in there right now too.   Any other advice? <Learn to treat/dip and quarantine all new livestock... investigate before you buy...> It molts about 2x a month, and had babies in the display tank.  When does the quarantine clock "start" now?  When the pimple goes away, or when the symptoms of the Ich were not visible? <Not following you here.> Finally, have you guys ever heard of "Quick Cure"?  It purports to cure Lymphocystis.  ( http://www.petguys.com/pet-guys/-042781008000.html).  Seems surprising to me that there is a "cure" if it is a viral disease...  Man, so many quacks out there... <There is no cure for Lymph... viral in origin. This material is formalin (a biocide) and malachite green... Covered on WWM> Thanks in advance, you guys (and gals) rule. Russ, Columbus, Ohio <Apply yourself Russ... you'll do fine. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty swimming like a seahorse? 8/21/05 I have a 46 gallon tank. We have 2 clownfish, several snails & hermit crabs, a Condylactis anemone, and a coral beauty. The coral beauty is swimming like a seahorse. Head up, tail down. He has been doing that ever since we moved him into the main tank 3 days ago. <Ohhh> He was doing well in the QT, swimming, not eating real well. He mostly hid in the QT. I have tested the water quality and it is great Ammonia 0 nitrite 0, nitrate 10ppm, Ph 8.3, temp 78, salinity 1.022. The clowns are great eating everything in sight but the Coral Beauty is not eating at all and then the funny swimming. We have tried frozen brine shrimp, Marine cuisine, emerald entree, seaweed, and the angel mix. Nothing is working. What can be causing him to swim this way? Any suggestions on how to get him to eat? <Mmm, could be a few things re the swimming, non-eating... most likely damage (gas bladder most commonly, by needling for decompression post-capture) in the process of collection, transport... Or a sting... from the Condylactis?> He looks tired and his gills are starting to look a little white or pale. What can we do to help this fish? Thank you for any help, Jeri <Mmm, really only improving water quality, hope... Do you have live rock? The organisms found in/on this are often about all Centropyge angels do initially feed on... and the LR would help to improve water quality... Bob Fenner>
Re: Coral Beauty swimming like a seahorse? 8/22/05
We do not have any live rock. We are talking about finding a reputable place here in Denver to get fully cured live rock and/or sand. With live sand how much should be put on the bottom of a 46 gallon tank? <Ahh, I would definitely be adding the best you can, soon> Back to the coral beauty. If he was stung by the anemone, how long would the effect last? Is there a way to force feed him? <Not easy to force feed... stings can last days, weeks> I noticed he has one white spot on his right side. It looks to be one large grain of salt embedded in his skin. He also seems to have scraped his neck/back area. His spikes look a little gray and are frayed a bit in that area. We have been watching the clowns closely and they are doing great. They are eating everything in sight, and look very healthy. <All markings are stress-related> The store had the Coral Beauty for 3 weeks swimming and eating fine, we had in QT for 2 weeks and it was swimming fine, mostly hiding, but not eating real well. We moved him to the main tank when our QT spiked ammonia and water changes were not helping it. We thought it would be better for the fish to be in better water conditions. <Mmm, on to that LR. Bob Fenner>
Re: Coral Beauty needs help  8/26/05
Spot is on left side and now left gill not working. He is spending a lot of time at the top of the tank, We did a 10% water change tonight to keep water optimum. Nitrates still showing about 10 -20ppm. So we will keep working on that. What can I do to help this fish? <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dwfangdisfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty Problems Hello Bob: <James, today> Thank you so much, your website has been extremely helpful for me in the past. Unfortunately I have a huge problem with Coral Beauties. I've purchased 4 so far, yes 4. I've finally managed to get one that's healthy and has been successfully introduced to my display tank. However, the third one I purchased is not doing so well, he's still alive and in quarantine. To make a long story short the first three fish had apparently the same problem...white fungus on the lips and pectoral fins, also they have a strange swim, almost a vertical waddle with the nose pointing up (the quarantined fish has successfully battled off the Ich and white fungus. The water quality is as good as it could be, I've never had any problems with any other fish. Right now I'm trying to force feed him as he hasn't eaten since I bought him on May 20th. He's not bobbing for air at all. Not pecking at the rocks. I have no idea nor does my LFS about what the problem could be. The owner of the LFS and I have become pretty good friends and he's been extremely helpful and not the type to try to make a sale at all costs. I really want to get this coral beauty healthy again and well although my tank finally has one, my roommate will be more the willing to adopt him. Any thoughts or suggestions you may have will be great. <Ross, I have a few questions.  First, how large is the quarantine tank, any medication in the QT, and, what is the salinity?  Also, how were the Coral Beauties acclimated?  James (Salty Dog)> Thanks, Ross Hutchings
Re: Coral Beauty Problems
Hi James: The Salinity is 1.022. The quarantine tank is only a 10 gallon. <If you had all four Coral Beauties in QT at the same time, that could lead to ammonia poisoning.  If so, did you monitor ammonia levels?>I was treating him with MelaFix for a week but since then I've done a 30% water change. <I like Maracyn myself. Might want to try that product.>  The way I've been doing the acclimations may be crude I'm not sure, but what I've been doing is floating them for a hour, then adding 1/2 cup of tank water every 20 min to a half an hour there after. I then introduce them into the tank after about 2 to 2 and a half hours. <The drip method much more preferred, shortens the acclimation time and offers a much more gradual acclimation to the new water.  Do a WWM search on acclimation for more info.> My other levels are: PH 8.2, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, Ammonia 0. Also, should I continue with the force feedings? <I wouldn't. I would put a vitamin supplement in the water such as Selcon.> Thanks for your help. <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Ross
Re: Coral Beauty Problems
Hello again James: No, the Coral Beauties were all in succession and were always the only fish in the QT. I've read about the drip method before and will certainly give it a try. I'm going to see if I can find some Selcon, there are only 4 LFS's in this area, Tropical & Marine Pets (which is my LFS of choice), Pets Unlimited, Pet City, and a new privately owned store that I can't remember it's name at the moment. Thanks for the help. <You're welcome.  I get mine from Drs. Foster & Smith.  Been dealing with them for 15 years with no problems.  James (Salty Dog)>

Flame with cloudy eyes Hi-<Hi Wes, MacL here with you today> I am glad you guys are here to help!  I looked on the site, and did not find a direct answer to my problem.  I have a yellow tang, flame angel and clown fish in my 75g tank.  Everyone was happy for a couple months, then Ich started to appear. I began treatment with Rid Ich, vacuuming the gravel daily. Fish still ate and functioned normally during this time.  At the beginning of the treatment, I gave all three a fresh water dip (each in their own prepared water) which gave some relief. <Good to hear> When catching the flame angel for this dip, I was using a net to guide her into a container. She darted into the net, and was stuck in it for about 20 seconds, head first. I was able to loose her from the net without any force on my part.  After this, her eyes seemed cloudy - I don't know if this is a result of the net scratching them or something else. <It could be the net or could be the effect of the parasites or even possibly the left over bacterial infection.> I thought this would go away, as it did not seem to affect her in any way.  Over the last few days, sometimes it seems it is improving, sometimes getting worse.  Her behavior has remained normal, as though nothing is wrong.  When I fed this morning, it was as though she could not see the food clearly, and thus missed it. <She probably can't see clearly. I really would suggest some type of hospital tank and a course of antibiotics treatment. If she starts to show signs of Popeye you can use Epsom salts to give her some relief in that way as well.> Upon feeding tonight, she was able to eat some, but still seemed as though her vision is hazy. The Ich has improved a lot, the tang has no signs, the angel a very small amount left, as well as the clown.  I have been treating for 6 days.  Also, over the last 6 days I have slowly lowered the salinity to 1.017.  All other conditions are just right.  Please let me know what I should do to correct this problem!  Also, I have noticed that sometimes it looks as though my tang is showing signs of aggression to its reflection in the glass - is this something to worry about? <You don't mention the tank size? Does he have lots of swimming room?>  Thanks in advance for your help.  Wes.       

Coral Beauty and dropsy Whitney Alan Gray wrote: >Hello all, <Hi, MikeD here> >     Long time reader, first time writer here today.  My question >concerns a Coral Beauty with what I believe to be Dropsy.  No other livestock appear to be affected.  I have a 1.5 year old 46 Gal tank >with 50 lbs of live rock, a Hot Magnum, Magnum 350, asst powerheads, a >sea clone skimmer, a UV Sterilizer, and a 288W PC fixture.  As far as >stocking goes, I've got a yellow tang, a coral beauty, a lawnmower >blenny, an ocellaris clown, a royal Gramma and a Niger trigger.<Here's part of your problem, with the tank being severely overcrowded, usually a major precursor for problems such as yours>  I also >have a feather duster and a Condylactis anemone.  Water parameters are >fine, with nitrates being at about 20ppm. >      The story with the coral beauty goes as follows:  About a week >ago, I noticed a small white speck of what appeared to be fungus on the >coral beauty's side, and a small slit in it's caudal fin.  After >several days, the slit had gotten larger, and the fungus was now the >size of a large grain of salt.  With this, I decided to medicate (day1) >using Melafix and PimaFix.<These are primarily additives for recent injuries and not true medications, a waste of time as well in cases such as yours.>  I turned off my protein skimmer at this >time.  Two days later (day 3)  I had noticed no improvement in the fin >or fungus, and noticed that one side of its body was swollen, with >protruding scales.  At this point, I was still running three week old >carbon in the HOT magnum, so I removed the Carbon, continued using Mela >and PimaFix, and started using Maracyn two.<My suggestion here would be to run both Maracyn and Maracyn II to cover any eventuality as far as gram positive and negative bacteria>  Today (day5),  the coral >beauty is still very swollen, and its mouth appears to be very red.  It >is also breathing very heavily (no redness of gills that I can see) and >the speck and slit in tail are still present.  I figured the combo of >meds I was using would have knocked out the small speck of fungus I >saw,  but after about four days and no progress, I decided to cut the >magnum 350 (which still had filter media that may be adsorbing the >meds.)  I still left the HOT magnum and powerheads running.  Within two >hours of cutting the Magnum 350 and dosing the meds, the water was >cloudy, and my yellow tang was also breathing heavily.  I looked >around, and found my coral beauty near death, on its side at the bottom >of the tank.  I immediately cut the lights, turned on the skimmer and >magnum 350, and re-instated carbon into the HOT magnum.  Two hours >later, the coral beauty is swimming around fine (except for the swollen >body, labored breathing, etc- but hey, its not dead!)  Several  other >observations:  my UV sterilizer has been on the whole time<this is a piece of equipment that often to usually is NOT what people think it is>, no other >fish are affected, the coral beauty swims around fine, doesn't hide, >and eats fine.  Lately (before speck appeared), the anemone has been >moving around, spewing brown stuff (I thought/think its poop though), >and randomly deflating.  Since I've turned the skimmer back on, it >hasn't really removed anything from the water, despite being turned off >for 5 days.  I also don't think the swelling occurred until I dosed >with Mela/PimaFix either.  The left side of my fish looks like a >pinecone, and it appeared almost overnight.  Do you think the >Mela/PimaFix could have caused this (the dropsy)?<Caused it, no, but it certainly didn't help and lulled you into wasting valuable time during which you could have been using the correct regimen of antibiotics>  Do you think it is >dropsy?<Actually, it sounds like a bacterial infection aggravated by overcrowding and probably improper diet....remember, dropsy is a symptom, not a disease.>  I'm afraid to medicate after what happened today.  I know I >need to act fast, but what should I do?<Again, since you have the Maracyn2, I'd add Maracyn 1 but in a hospital or quarantine tank.....you're extremely lucky that medicating your display tank hasn't backfired and caused a total collapse of the system>  I thought the meds were >ineffective or being adsorbed my some filter media in the magnum 350 >(like a phosphate remover,  and another substance by sea Chem (not >carbon or Zeolite) that I cant think of the name of ... Purigen >maybe?)<I'd be VERY cautious about all of these panaceas you seem drawn to as they can do serious harm, particularly when used in tandem and regularly.  My basic advice in this area is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and then fix ONLY what IS broke!>so I shut it off and look what happened.  I thought the anemone >could have released some toxin into the water (on some of its >tentacles, there appear to be constrictions, like in a sausage), but if >that were the case, wouldn't all fish be affected and wouldn't my >skimmer be going crazy?<Yes, it would, but anemones don't release toxins into the water. What you were seeing was what you thought it was, an anemone version of a bowel movement. BTW I'd NEVER use products like you describe with anemones in the tank>  Sorry about the long e-mail, but I wanted you >to know everything so you could give the best advice possible.  I've >never seen anything like this, what should I do to save him?<No need for apologies...try the Maracyn 1 & 2 in a Q tank, improve the diet and you should have a good chance at success.> >Thanks, >Whit

Bicolor Angelfish color loss Hi i am Kenneth My son's Bicolor angelfish is losing color on the dark blue part of it, it is turning a light blue is it anything I should worry about? THANK YOU <Possibly... are your other livestock "okay"? It may be that this animal is deficient in some aspects of nutrition (lots of live rock is a standard item here), or that some aspect/s of water quality are lacking... do you have sufficient skimming, regular water changing? Could be "just a sign of age"... as the blue does diminish in the wild with growth/size. Bob Fenner>
Re: Bicolor Angelfish color loss
Thank you Bob for your help i will add liverock and check water quality. <Real good. Please do keep me posted. Bob Fenner>

Fish Disease (?) Greetings! <Salutem dicit> Sorry to bug you with so many questions lately but I can't find the right answers using search (and I have spent a long time doing that). What are these spots on my Coral Beauty? They are two white spots on his tail and rear dorsal fin.  They are not raised but look more like discoloration.   <Might be just that... possibly an internal or subdermal parasite... not likely much that I'd do to "treat" this> The one on his rear dorsal also appears on the other side.  He is eating fine and not scratching but he is visiting the cleaner shrimp often.  Picture attached (sorry for poor quality but best I could do). Thanks again for all your help. -Ray <I'd just "wait and see" unless other symptoms become apparent. Bob Fenner>

re: Coral beauty dwarf angel Thank you sooo much for the super fast reply.  I did the 3 day treatment and then the one day treatment per LFS recommendation (they were thinking more preventative rather than curative I think....or they were just clueless). <... not worth the wear and tear of a three day treatment... I don't know what was trying to be accomplished... unless the animal was treated and then moved to an uninfested system... two weeks is necessary. Please invest your time in reading through the marine parasitic disease sections archived on www.WetWebMedia.com> By biological cleaner do you mean a cleaner shrimp?  If not, what? Thanks again <Yes, either cleaner shrimp and/or Gobiosoma gobies. Bob Fenner>

Coral beauty dwarf angel Thanks for the reply.  I know you guys are busy but much has happened in the last few days and I really don't know where to go from here.  Sunday evening, I took the Coral Beauty out of the main tank and put him into my new 10 gal QT tank (dog broke last one).  It has a small hang-on filter on the back and I put in an airstone for extra O2.  I then treated it with Rid Ich + (formaldehyde & malachite green) for 3 days doing a 25% water change every day before the next dose.  I then did a 50% change, put carbon back into the filter for 24 hrs and then put in Clout for 24 hours. <... all sounded good until the bit about interrupting the treatment with Rid Ich... why only three days?>   Today, I did a 50% change and put carbon filter back in.   Now, the conditions of the tank have been fluctuating all week.  Ammonia and pH mainly.  Ammonia has gotten up to .5 and pH has been anywhere from 7.8 to 8.4! <Not good...>   The fish is now lethargic, swimming at the surface, breathing hard and very pale.  He also has not eaten in 2 days and he had a great appetite before. The white spot on the back of his dorsal fin is almost a complete hole in his fin.  The one on his tail now looks fuzzy and seems to be growing.  His pectoral fins also are degraded at the ends and have some very small white threads coming off them.  His eyes also have pale splotches to them. <Could be from the treatment, poor/vacillating water quality alone...> Is his rapid degradation due to over aggressive treatment, fluctuating water quality, disease or a combination of the three?   <Oh, yes> I was thinking of treating the tank tomorrow with Kanamycin as the previous two treatments did not seem to work. <Wait, wait! The previous treatments were not done to spec. And you've stated poor water quality measurements...> Giving his current health, I am weary to try another treatment that may stress him even more. <Me too. At this point (and probably prior) it's best to return the animal to the best circumstances, maybe try a biological cleaner/s> I am at an ends for what to do.  It was even suggested to me to transfer my red skunk cleaner shrimp to the QT tank to help clean parasites and dead tissue off of him.  I would rather do this than stress him out more.   Please help!!!!!!! -Ray <I would return the Angel to the main/display tank... whatever the root problem was/is, your further "treatments" will not improve it (or your main tanks) condition. Bob Fenner>
Re: Coral Beauty Angel Thanks again for the help.  He did spend 2-1/2 weeks in QT and was fine (dog broke QT tank and had to move him before he ran out of water) and then spent over a week in the main tank without problem.  They (and WWM) initially thought it was a viral problem given his lack of other symptoms.  I also gave him a 5 min fresh water/formalin dip before putting him in the main tank.  Tried a dip before moving him back to QT but he did no like it one bit so it was less than a minute.   Live and learn. The cleaner shrimp is acclimating as we speak.  I did another 50% water change with water from the main tank just to be sure to dilute anything left in the QT tank (and to make acclimation easier) before adding the shrimp.  For once, the pH's of both tanks actually matched! Thanks again for all your help and the super fast responses.  I'll update you if there are any major changes. -Ray <Real good. Thank you. Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral Beauty... Mortuus est Bob, Thank you again for all your help.  Despite my best efforts, my poor fishy died late this morning.  When he died, his tail fin was almost totally rotted away and the rear dorsal and anal fins were likewise degraded.  He was very pale and the bottom of the tank was littered with his scales.  I am heartbroken that this once beautiful fish that I so enjoyed died so horribly while under my care.  He was only the second fish I have ever lost, the first being a suicide (found him on the floor behind the tank). My LFS thinks that this was some sort of bacterial infection that took over when he got stressed by the fluctuating water quality.  Any input on that?   <Impossible to tell... but the brief history you related over the Net points to a succession of challenges in treatment, exposure to varying water quality... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm It will be of great worth to you to understand a/the "total picture" in equations of health/disease...> I want to learn from this so it does not happen again.  Could my QT setup have contributed to the dramatically fluctuating water quality? <Yes>   I have a 10-gal with heater and a TopFin power filter 10 and an airstone added for extra O2.   I am thinking perhaps adding a small powerhead?  I do not have a sump to keep a sponge filter in for immediate bio filtration. <The sponge filter would be of more use than a powerhead>   The closest I have is my Whisper 3 on my display tank. The good news is that all other members of my display tank appear totally healthy and showing so signs of stress at all so, whatever killed my fish, was limited to him. Thanks again for your help and providing those like me with a wonderful source of information. -Ray <Peace, life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty Sick. Hey Bob <<Hi Javier>> I have a 50 gallon saltwater tank running for over a year now and have not had any problems after a rough start. The tank has now stabilized and have not lost any fish in 9 months. The levels are good and I do bi-weekly water changes, keeping the temp @ 81 degrees and salinity at 1.020. I have 70 lbs of live rock and sand, a canister filter and protein skimmer.  <<What are the test results, this might help.>> The my stock consist of a yellow tang, a maroon clown, a coral beauty and some small fish (Chromis/Firefish). I feed them brine shrimp (frozen & live), formula 2 flakes, Wardley's marine flake food, Sera iodine enriched granulated food and Nutrafin Max food to keep their diet varied. About two days ago I noticed that my Coral Beauty was acting kinda strange just hovering near the LR without much movement. (Very unlike him). But I went about my routine of feeding them. Normally at feeding time all the fish dart around and head up to the surface and a frenzy takes place once I drop the food in. Everything went as expected except for the Coral Beauty. He did seem to be interested in going after the food, but once near it he just went for it, looked at it and just swam away.  Later that night I noticed him in the bottom right of the tank under some rock covering just chilling. (Having a private party). Having my tank for awhile I know each of my fish's behavior at feeding time, at night, w/light on or off, when frightened, during a territory dispute. and where each turns in for the night. Yesterday he was in the same spot at the bottom right of the tank under the LR covering pointing up and tail down. He looks like he has some white film forming on his mouth/lips? A fungus or bacteria?  <<Likely bacteria, but could be fungus. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/infectio.htm>> Please help. I did add some Melafix to the tank. Does this stuff really work, a waste of money or bad idea? What is your recommendation? Setting up a hospital tank for quarantine or let him ride it out and not stress him more? Javier <<Melafix is likely not necessary or useful. These problems are the result of poor water quality, nutrition, overall environment. I suggest water changes, green herbivorous foods daily (live rock with algae/microalgae is ideal). Please do follow and read the link above and also go to the FAQ's. Best of luck, Craig>> 
Re: Coral Beauty Sick. T
hanks, <<You're always welcome Javier.>> I'll check the water parameters again. I did one a week ago and they were normal. None of the other fish seem to be bothered or show signs of illness. I do a water change every two weeks. How much of a water change to you recommend? (Currently 75 lbs of LR & LS). So in volume I may have about 35 gallons? <<Depends on load, type of inhabitants. You have quite a few fish so likely somewhere in the 25-30% range, but this is dependent on many factors, husbandry, feeding, etc. I would assume your volume to be 40 gal.>> On a separate note, I notice strange creature in my tank. I have never seem it before in my tank and have not added any LR or LS since my initial set-up, which was cured. It is the size and of a quarter, flat and somewhat of a circular shape. It is black in color and moves like a slug or snail with two small tentacles/feelers. In the center of the body it has a small white slit, cat eye in look. Once I hit the lights if moved to the dark under the live rock. <<Hard to tell w/o a photo, and maybe not then either! Likely a snail, Trochus, Nudibranch, or limpid. Try this: http://www.tcnj.edu/~maughme2/faq.htm  Yours, Craig>>

Coral Beauty Currently I have a Coral Beauty that I have acquired about a week and a half ago.  Two to three days after, I noticed that the fish had Ich and so I had treated it with something the fish store had recommended.  Looks like the Ich went away within a day or two after putting in the medication in the tank.  Now its eyes look kind of bulging and cloudy.  I'm still treating the tank for the Ich but what would you recommend for the eyes? <It is probably a secondary infection of some sort. When you have both eyes bulging and cloudy, it is most likely the disease known as (no surprise here) Popeye. This malady is usually caused by bacteria, and usually is indicative of water conditions which need to be improved. This can also be brought on by parasites, but is less likely.  There is even the outside possibility that the "treatment" has caused this problem- but not likely. Treatment can be as simple as improving water quality in the treatment tank (you are treating in a separate aquarium, right? If not- you should be!), or, in many cases, treating with medication such as Maracyn. I never advise the casual "dumping" of medication into the tank-sometimes this does more harm than good! Do check the FAQs on disease on the WetWebMedia.Com site and verify if the fish does indeed have this disease, then take appropriate action. You should be able to save this fish with prompt treatment. Good luck! Scott F.> Is there something I can do to save the fish? Thanks, Mary Gonzalez

Help!!! Sick Bicolor Angel I came home today, to find my Bicolor Angel lying on its side at the bottom of my QT tank... It looked like he had some black spots around the gills. He had been swimming and feeding yesterday. There were no signs of infection or parasites. He was not eating much, but he was eating. The damsel that lives in this tank is healthy. <hmmm... not symptomatic of anything specifically pathogenic but this species is notoriously still drug caught. If you bought it for under $30 in most big cities in the US then it is a strong candidate for drug poisoning. Quality hand-caught Bicolor's from Fiji and elsewhere are significantly more expensive than the cheap Jakarta and Philippine specimens. > I did a water test last night. Ammonia and Nitrite 0.. PH 8.3... Nitrate 60 - 80 ppm. I changed 2 gallons out of this 10 gallon tank while he was getting the FW dip. I scooped him out and gave him a 6 - 7 minute FW dip. I returned him to the QT.. He not lying on his side yet. What should I do? Continue FW Dips?  <hold off on the dips unless you see a specific indication of parasites (scratching, spots, sloughing possibly)> I looked closer, and his pectoral fins have a slight dusting of white spots.. Great!!! Ich!! I guess, I need to use Formalin II, along with the FW Dips. <Ok...fair enough... I agree <smile>. That will be $50 for the service call...hehe> Please let me know if there is anything else I should be doing... <singing in the rain is always delightful if it is warm enough outside> Thanks, Glenn <kindly, Anthony>
Re: Help!!! Sick Bicolor Angel
Hi Anthony, Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my Bicolor Angel did not improve. He became more lethargic. His respiration was very high. I was sure he would not survive the night, so I decided euthanasia was the only humane thing to do.. I froze him.. <alas... I am sorry to hear about it> He had been in my tank for almost two weeks.. He appeared healthy. Unfortunately, he only cost me $25, so I guess he suffered cyanide poisoning..  <it is certainly a strong possibility. Take a look at the gill color as well... should be richly red/pink. If pale pink in color... another indication of an unsound collecting technique> That will be the last Bicolor I buy.  <or let it serve as a reminder that many such "difficult" fish are difficult because of prevalent collecting or shipping practices. You may just need to research and buy from a different source. Case in point... common Regal Angels are all but "impossible" to keep alive. But aquarists have found that the race called "orange throat" Regals from the Maldives and Red Sea are quite able to live in captivity. Unfortunately, they are much more expensive and generally need to be special ordered. Many other such examples (Moorish Idols from Hawaii, Coral Beauties from Fiji (mostly purple body... not orange dominant)). Indeed, many subtleties to research or look out for>  Not to mention from now on, I'll research ya'lls site before buying any new fish.. Thanks Again, Glenn <excellent... information is power as they say. Anthony>

Another Cloudy Eyed Angel!! Bob, I lost a flame angel about 3 months ago when my return tube started putting out  fine bubbles and probably caused the flame to have an air embolism (a sudden unexpected loss on night) <Yikes. A bummer for both of you> I replaced him with another about 8 weeks ago and his eye got cloudy, bulged and he developed a white blotched appearance on his face and subsequently died. <Time to look into another source, or your source in turn to look into theirs...>  I replaced him with another flame about a week ago. Everything was fine, he was eating OK and this morning I noticed this one developing a cloudy bulging eye. I don't see any white facial blotches yet. He's still eating for the time being. I also have a very listless lemon peel that I put in the tank a couple of months ago. No outward signs on this guy. I have two clowns a small 2 1/2' wrasse, Longnose  hawk, yellow tang, Kole Tang and a hermit crab. Any ideas or suggestions? Nitrites are bit elevated, very slightly. <Nitrites? Should be zero concentration> I have a 90Gallon Salt Fish only tank, Protein skimmer, UV, AMiracle Trickle Filter, Ozonizer with a RedOx controller, s.g. of 1.022 and temperature of 77 degrees. I bleached my Coral about a week ago and can't get the RedOx above 260 at this point?? <Get rid of your wet-dry media, if not the wet-dry itself (can use the "guts" as a sump instead...). Many sources of possible trouble here. Please read over this section: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm of our principal site, and on to where the links, FAQs lead you... Consider the contributing causes that are potentially impacting, impinging on your livestock's health, your success. We'll be chatting. Bob Fenner> Lewis M. Kirschner

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