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FAQs on Centropyge Angelfishes Pathogenic Disease 

FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease: Dwarf Angel Disease 1, Dwarf Angel Disease 2, Dwarf Angel Disease 3, Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt,
FAQs on Dwarf Angel Disease by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Social, Trauma, Genetic, Treatments

Related Articles: Centropyge Angels, C. loricula/Flame Angel, Lemon/y Dwarf Angels, A Couple of Lemons; the True and False/Herald's (nee Woodheadi) Centropyges, Potter's Angels, Reef Safari! Keeping Multibarred Angelfish By Alexander Thomasser,

Related FAQs: Best FAQs on Centropyge, Centropyge Angels 1, Centropyge Angels 2Centropyge Angels 3, Centropyge Angels 4, Dwarf Angel Identification, Dwarf Angel Selection, Dwarf Angel Compatibility, Dwarf Angel Systems, Dwarf Angel Feeding, Dwarf Angel Reproduction,

 

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Diagnosis 2nd opinion need Coral Beauty       4/18/14
Needing a true answer to what this might be (See Images Attached)
<I see these...>
Coral Beauty, Marine Ich broke out 5 days ago, bought at LFS, Coral had some small pepper like white spots. I started Hyposalinity on her. Then she got worse and broke out in what I think was is Lymphocystis or Fungus.
<The former... some aspect of viral involvement here>

- In QT
- In Hyposalinity 1.008
<These won't solve this situation>
- Water per test are great
- Daily water changes 25%
- 2 rounds of Erythromycin planning a total of 4 rounds to prevent infection
<Nor this>

- Air stone tank
- Vitamin C and Selcon
- Eating very well and active.
<These last two are helpful>

Is this Lymphocystis or a fungus and am I on the right antibiotic to prevent secondary infection? Do I keep her in hyposalinity? Should I change anything?
<Yes I would. I'd post haste return this fish to your main/display tank...
where circumstances are more suitable, stable... Continue with the vitamin, HUFA soaked foods, and likely employ cleaner organism/s... In time the Lymph... will solve, resolve itself. Do please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/virdiscures.htm
and the linked files above for background, input>
Thanks for your response
Scott
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>


Possible fungal infection  - 03/12/2006 Hi Crew!   I have a Potters Angel in quarantine. I have had him for almost a month. He is in a 55 gallon quarantine that I started with  water from the main display and a power filter that I had on the display for 2 months prior to setting up my quarantine. <Good set-up... this is a "touchy" species for aquarium use (by coincidence I'm out in their home waters in HI> I do 30 - 40% water changes every other day. I feed a variety of good frozen foods and alternate Vita-Chem and Selcon. He gets Algae strips daily.  He was the picture of health at purchase, he ate and was very alert and curious . The guy at the LFS only used one net to catch him [I even went and grabbed another for him, but he didn't  think it necessary] <Foolish... two nets please!> When he finally caught the fish, I thought it looked as if his mouth was pinned to the glass with the net. He seemed fine when I got him home, so I didn't dwell on the rough treatment of my Pretty Angel... But then last week I noticed his fins fraying . Around that time he lost his spunk, he was not swimming all over the tank picking at the decor anymore. He was also not eating as well as before. He seemed to swim more  on the bottom. I started doing daily water changes but that did not seem to help. I started treating him with Furan-2. I was getting ready to do my morning water change after the second dose when I noticed the Angels mouth, It looked horrible!! It almost looked as if it had exploded! I got the flashlight out and stared at him for an hour it seems. He has something white  in his mouth.  The white stuff is also hanging out of his mouth, and parts of his mouth look torn. I have tried to get a picture, but they all turn out too dark. <... might well be subsequent to the net thrashing. Arggghhhh!>   I want to save my Angel. I am not sure what course of action to take next but I feel I need to act quickly. I know fungal infections are rare but the more I read, the more I think that's what I'm dealing with. I purchased some Maroxy [sp?] <This is it> today and I also have some Kanacyn, both say they treat fungal infections. I cannot decide which to use. I need your expert opinion please!   Thank you all so much for taking the time to help!!   P.S. It is 4am, I am dead tired so I hope this letter is legible   Thanks again, Kim <Either of these materials could/can be used... if the last, the antibiotic, it's best to try getting some into the fish via offered foods... Bob Fenner>
Re: Possible fungal infection, Centropyge  - 03/13/2006
Thanks Bob.   I started the Kanacyn Saturday morn. He is still alive. He can't eat due to the white 'growth' in his mouth unfortunately .   Keep your fingers and toes crossed that he pulls through!!   Thanks again! <Am rootin' for you and your Potter's... a gorgeous species, but one that does poorly by and large in captivity. Bob Fenner>

Angel In Distress?   12/29/05 To the WWM Crew <Scott F. with you tonight!> Bob, thank you very much for your help about the Brooklynella/formalin but I think that my move was too late... Now I have another problem with a beautiful and young Flame. He is in another QT , 30 Lt. He arrived 6 days ago, is eating, and his behavior is ok. Something is wrong because is color is becoming pale and there white powder on is fins (not transparent). Sometimes he scratch the pvc tubes on the tank bottom. <Hmm...could be Ich or some other parasitic illness.> I put CopperSafe in the tank, and will wait till tomorrow. So, please tell me if I must do something else. Best regards Flavio <Well, Flavio, if you suspect parasitic illness, medication is not a bad idea. However, do exercise caution with copper and Centropyge angels, which are notoriously sensitive to it. Monitor copper levels constantly and adjust as necessary to maintain a proper therapeutic dosage. Be ready to remove the fish or dilute the copper levels if the fish shows signs of distress ("burning" fins, loss of appetite, etc.). Formalin is preferred with these fishes. If you are very attentive, and continue observing and monitoring the copper level, you can be successful with this! Follow the manufacturer's recommendations on dosage and duration of the treatment to the letter. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Spots  11/7/05 Hi Crew, <Steven> Basic question: I have a Bicolor dwarf angel that has displayed since I bought him two spots on one his (side) fins. They are larger than the pictures of ick that is shown on various photos I have researched on your site. Also he has not displayed any signs of flashing or scratching, he is breathing fine, grazes all day on live rock, and eats well. He is active and not showing any negative signs to suspect anything other than the visible spots.  I would estimate that the size of the spots would be equal to two large grains of salt each (at least). I have had him now for 10 days and no change, other than he has eaten better each day (getting used to his surroundings).  Question: is ick considered very virulent <Can be... or more "resting"... depending on conditions, infectivity> and with this much time with visible spots would one expect the spots to either multiply, fall off (progression of ick), and make the fish progressively act more stressed/sick? <What you are seeing may be pathogenic (encysted worms most likely, perhaps Sporozoan...) but not likely "catching" or spreading... requires the death of the host, other vectors (intermediates) to spread> I have a 40 watt UV sterilizer, 250 gallons with 250 lbs. of live rock, plus wet/dry, skimmer (skimming well), practice weekly water changes, Phos Ban, Kent Activated Carbon, and refugium with crushed live rock and Caulerpa. I keep the water very pristine (in my humble opinion). Also no other tank inhabitants show any signs of spots, including the ick magnet tangs (Chevron and Orange shoulder).  <Good point, info.> I feed a very varied diet of frozen angel preparations, omnivore, carnivore, Mysis, as well as Nori sheets soaked with Zoecon and Kent Garlic extreme. I wasn't sure if fish could pick up a random parasite that is nothing to be worried about and not otherwise contagious... is this possible? <Nothing to worry about category> I don't think I will treat for anything or even consider moving to a QT tank since there are no signs of stress other than the visible spots.. do you agree?  <Yes, emphatically> Your comments are greatly appreciated, and as always, every one of you are to be commended for your dedication. Steven <Cheers, Bob Fenner> 
Re: Spots  11/8/05
Good Morning Bob, <'Morrow to you Steven> Thank you for your reply regarding the white spots on my Bicolor angel.  <Welcome> Let's for the sake of agreement set aside the possibility that it is ick and instead focus on that this is pathogenic, perhaps Sporozoan as you mentioned.  Is this condition self limiting? <Likely, usually so> As a general rule do these Sporozoans multiply within or on the host fish and are they lethal? <Generally not... lest/until conditions disfavor their host too much...> I know from an emailed description you can only apply your experience in rendering advice, <Yes... of a necessity... honesty. But first and other hand...> however I think many people see something odd, and automatically want to have the "shot gun" approach and begin treating, often times doing more damage than what they are treating for. <Ahh, you are wise here... particularly "in the West", folks too often over- mis-treat... well-intentioned, or not, doing so is a source of more mortality than all other causes combined IMO> For this reason, I want to always check myself with someone else and not take an irrational approach. <Good... or at least we are in agreement here> With the size of tank I have and the large amount of live rock, I only want to attempt to catch this fish if I absolutely have to. Again thank you! Steven <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

- Coral Beauty Angel - I recently started my first salt water aquarium, and things have been going very well so far.  I have a 55 gallon drilled tank with an AMiracle wet/dry, Remora Pro skimmer, 45lbs of Fiji live rock, two tank raised clowns, and a banded coral shrimp so far along with some turbo snails and a hermit crab. The other day I brought home a coral beauty angel, and put it in my quarantine tank (glad I did so).  It looked great at first, but now it has a lot of tiny white spots on it.  I have seen Ich on regal tangs and full size angels in pet stores before, and it looks like this.  When I brought the fish home two days ago I gave it a 4 minute fresh water dip (ph and temp adjusted) as your site recommends.  I added it to my 10 gallon quarantine tank that has an 8 watt UV on it (way overkill). <Is OK, a fine place to run UV.> Is it normal for this fish to get Ich even with the freshwater dip? <Not abnormal.> What can I do to get rid of it? <Dip again, vacuum the bottom of the quarantine tank. Make sure you have a flow rate sufficient to kill Protozoans with the UV.> Once the symptoms have disappeared, is there any way to be sure it is gone (my main concern is not infecting the display tank)? <Keep up the quarantine for at least two weeks. If symptoms don't reappear, then you should be OK adding the fish to the main tank.> Should I give it another longer dip (it didn't seem to like the first one much, so I am reluctant). <That won't hurt.> If there is no sure way to do this would you recommend trying to return the fish to the pet store? <No... I'd try and see this through. These fish are for the most part, surprisingly tough.> Please give me any advice you can, this is the first hurdle I have run into. <Well, you did the right thing by putting the fish in quarantine. Good job.> I am hoping to get through it smoothly. <I think you will.> I am hoping that by reading as much as I can and being smart about things I can avoid most of the problems people have switching to salt. <I think you are off to a good start.> Thanks! -Ken   <Cheers, J -- >

Ich treatment for Dwarf Angels 8.11.05 Hello Folks, My main tank has come down with Ich.  I first noticed it on my hippo  tang, and shortly there after the spots appearing on all the other fish.   (I have 1 hippo tang, 3 dwarf angels, 1 lawnmower blenny, and 2 clowns) <Have the dwarf angels been together long. Over one year... six months even? An unnatural mix and some source of stress indeed> From what I've read angels don't do well with copper, correct?    <True> So I should use a formalin product like Kordon's Rich-Ich +, correct?    <This could be helpful... in a bare-bottomed QT tank. Never dose formalin in the main display. Nor organic dyes for that matter when you have live rock.> Do you recommend the full dosage (1 tsp per 10 gallons), or should I go with a  half dosage?   <Always full strength in QT> If I go with a half dose I'm assuming this will prolong  the treatment time? Thanks!! Travis <In addition to conventional medications, I like to soak food in garlic extract and beta Glucan (get from GNC health stores). I believe these to be very helpful. Best of luck, Anthony>
Ich treatment for dwarf angels II 8.11.05
the dwarf angels have been together for about three months.  they were  added at the same time and get along fine.   <It means little... and is hardly a test of time. If yours are like most, they will scrap in time (sexual maturity) and be a constant source of stress for each other. The mix is unnatural and ill-advised IMO> the reason I asked about the dosage is because I read something on your  site about certain fish being sensitive to such medication .   _ http://www.wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm_ ( http://www.wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm) <understood> It reads: "Some groups of freshwater fishes (small Characoids/tetras, Mormyrids, loaches...) and marines (surgeonfish's, Rabbitfishes, dwarf  angelfishes...) are sensitive to formalin and formalin/malachite, and should not  receive more than half doses of these chemicals. Live plants are also made of proteins... and will die if exposed to formalin. Formalin kills microbes indiscriminately, including nitrifying bacteria. Hence you will need to monitor the accumulation of ammonia and nitrite, and take steps to prevent their  exceeding 1.0 ppm (likely by massive changes of pre-conditioned water)." Thanks. <Formalin by itself is no more stressful than most any other meds in general, but with organic dyes like malachite green, the angels can respond badly. Watch closely... but I'm still saying full dose and standard QT protocol (daily water changes form the bare bottom of the tank to reduce larval parasites, etc). Anthony> <<RMF would heed the manufacturer's warning and treat only half dose.>>

Fighting Ich The Easy Way? I'm starting to feel indebted to you guys for all the help you have given me.  Here is my question for the day.  I have a flame angel in quarantine, about 3 inches long.  He was brought in from Hawaii two weeks ago from LFS. <Excellent fish, excellent procedure, and the best place to get 'em from!> Curious about surroundings, eating some prepared food, nibbling on everything in sight, seemed healthy.  He is now in my quarantine tank, been there for two days, started showing some signs of Ich, 5 or 6 spots on him. Do I have to medicate, or can I just siphon 1 or 2 gallons a day from the bottom of the tank, hoping for him to battle this on his own.   <Actually, the procedure is 100% changes, siphoning from the bottom of the bare quarantine tank. By doing this, you're removing any encysted stages of the parasite that may be present. It's not that traumatic, actually, if you are using water from your display tank as the QT water. You're simply replacing the water in the QT with water of the exact same temperature and composition; the same water that the fish will be living in for the rest of his life. Really pretty safe! I'd try this before I'd resort to chemicals, particularly with Centropyge species. Lon-term use of copper is a definite no-no with these guys.> He is still eating.  I don't want to give him a fresh water dip (my usual procedure) because I gave him one when I first got him and he didn't like it, tried to jump, spitting water at surface, etc...  I think that the stress from the dip may have actually triggered the Ich. <Possible. Centropyge don't take well to FW dips on occasion! I agree with your decision not to do a dip again.> By the way I don't think I did anything wrong with the first dip, ph adjusted, temp adjusted, aerated R/O water, about 8 min.s long, the same procedure I have used with success on my tangs). <Yep- you did fine. A great procedure; it's just that some fishes don't take well to it!> If you feel I can wait this out, at what point, or what signs would you wait for to determine if I have to take further action?  i.e.: just watch him if he is acting normally with just a few spots, medicate him if he is showing further signs of disease like scratching and more spots. <You're reading my mind!> If I should medicate him, what do you recommend? <I'd consider a product with Formalin in lieu of Copper Sulphate> Thanks for your help. <Glad to be of assistance. I think that you are on the right track here. Keep this guy eating a variety of foods, give him excellent water quality, use the water change technique and he may just pull through without any other intervention required! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

- Flame Angel with Ich - I'm starting to feel indebted to you guys for all the help you have given me.  Here is my question for the day.  I have a flame angel in quarantine, about 3 inches long.  He was brought in from Hawaii two weeks ago from LFS. Curious about surroundings, eating some prepared food, nibbling on everything in sight, seemed healthy.  He is now in my quarantine tank, been there for two days, started showing some signs of Ich, 5 or 6 spots on him. Do I have to medicate, or can I just siphon 1 or 2 gallons a day from the bottom of the tank, hoping for him to battle this on his own. <At the very least get it a cleaner shrimp... sometimes you can keep ahead of an all out infection this way, but if you have to medicate the tank the shrimp would have to go.> He is still eating.  I don't want to give him a fresh water dip (my usual procedure) because I gave him one when I first got him and he didn't like it, tried to jump, spitting water at surface, etc...  I think that the stress from the dip may have actually triggered the Ich. <Mmmm... you can probably imagine, no saltwater fish is going to like a freshwater dip but many of them can take this treatment, sometimes for as long as 10 minutes. pH-adjusted, freshwater dips are a wise and useful first stop along the way for dealing with Ich.> By the way I don't think I did anything wrong with the first dip, ph adjusted, temp adjusted, aerated R/O water, about 8 min.s long, (the same procedure I have used with success on my tangs). <Excellent.> If you feel I can wait this out, at what point, or what signs would you wait for to determine if I have to take further action? <More, rather than less Ich - as long as the fish is still interactive and eating, it's on the positive side of things. If you do need to treat with copper, use a dose slightly less than normal and keep it up for 14 days along with daily to every other day water changes.> i.e.: just watch him if he is acting normally with just a few spots, medicate him if he is showing further signs of disease like scratching and more spots. <Oh... I should have read on - jolly good show.> If I should medicate him, what do you recommend? <Copper, but as I pointed out, should be a mild dose - angels can be sensitive to copper, but really have the most trouble with prolonged exposure to it, so it's meant to be a short term treatment.> Thanks for your help. <Cheers, J -- >

Say No To Copper (Treating A Centropyge With Ich) Hi, <Hi there! Scott F. with you today!> I have a Centropyge bispinosus with Ich. Is copper a safe treatment with this species. Or is hyposalinity a better route for them. Thank You. David <Well, David, I'd recommend using a Formalin-based remedy with Centropyge species, augmented with freshwater dips. I'm not a big fan of hyposalinity, myself... Copper can be rough on them. I hope that this helps! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Treating a Flame Angel for Ich Hello.  I have a flame angel in quarantine that I just got two days ago.  The fish looked and acted fine at the LFS,  with no signs of illness.  But yesterday he developed Ich and wouldn't eat any flakes or frozen brineshimp.  Your site seems to recommend the use of copper as a treatment, but I have heard that flame angels do not do well with copper because it eats away at their internal organs.  I can't seem to find any information on the procedure for using hyposalinity effectively.  Since the flame angel isn't eating, I don't think that garlic would work.  Should I go ahead and treat with copper?  I'm at a loss... any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Lisa    <Hey Lisa, good call using the QT tank.  You are correct, copper is not good for dwarf angels.  Try treating with a formalin based medication and freshwater dips.  -Gage>

Dwarf Angels Thank you for the quick response to my last question. Your valuable advice makes the hobby so much easier. It's nice to finally find a source of helpful information. <You are welcome.> I was reading your section regarding dwarf angels. You mentioned their sensitivity to copper with or w/o formalin, but in the flame angel article it said to be prepared to use copper if needed. Will flames tolerate copper, or formalin. <Their are several people who write for this website and we all bring different experiences to the table. Bob probably wrote the Flame Angel article with Anthony writing about the dwarf angels sensitivity to copper and/or formalin. IME, I try to minimize any and all medications. There are instances where you have to medicate, but there are other options; quarantining, daily water changes for Cryptocaryon/Marine Ich, and lower salinity treatments.> Thanks, Rich. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Coral Beauty Hello Everyone, Hope all is well. I am in the process of saving a coral beauty from the freezer at the LFS. It is missing an eye and cannot be sold, so I will be taking it home and trying to rehabilitate it. <Good for you.> One eye looks to be gone and is kind of white and slightly fuzzy, not a big nasty fuzzy spot, but kind of fleshy, like when you just lose your eye. It will be going into a quarantine tank <Excellent!> and I was wondering if I should add anything to the water to help the healing process. <1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per 5 gallons of water and a medicated food for bacterial infections would be great.> The tank will be a 10 gallon with a Penguin 125 back filter for circulation, I will not be adding the carbon insert. Should I add some medication, or wait and see if she heals on her own. <I would wait, but be prepared to add a broad spectrum antibiotic if it does not respond to or eat the medicated food.> I know the odds are not in her favor, but she has a better chance in my med tank than she does in the freezer. Thanks a lot, and best regards, Gage <Good luck to you and your fish. -Steven Pro>

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
New eBook on Amazon: Available here
New Print Book on Create Space: Available here


by Robert (Bob) Fenner
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