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FAQs on Discus Disease Treatments
FAQs on Discus Disease:
Discus Disease 1,
Discus Disease 2,
Discus Disease 3,
FAQs on Discus Disease by Category:
Diagnosis, Environmental,
Nutritional, Social,
Infectious,
Parasitic,
Trauma,
Related Articles:
Plants +
Discus = Wow! by Alesia Benedict,
Planted Aquariums:
Plants and Discus: What They Need To
Thrive By Alesia
Benedict, Discus Divas, Glitz,
Glam and Lots of Demands by Alesia Benedict,
Juraparoids,
Neotropical Cichlids,
African Cichlids,
Dwarf South American Cichlids,
Asian Cichlids,
Cichlid Fishes in General,
Related FAQs: Discus 1,
Discus 2,
Discus Identification,
Discus Selection,
Discus Compatibility,
Discus Behavior,
Discus Systems,
Discus Feeding,
Discus Reproduction,
Cichlids of the World,
Cichlid Systems,
Cichlid Identification,
Cichlid Behavior,
Cichlid Compatibility,
Cichlid Selection,
Cichlid Feeding,
Cichlid Disease,
Cichlid Reproduction,
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Beware of phony herbal non "Fixes"; and too-toxic
formalin and metal containing treatments.
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Hi I need help with angel fish!
And Discus... mis-treated, no reading
11/28/11
Hi there!
<Yellow!>
I don't know if you guys can help me, but this is weird. I have
there huge tanks/Aquarium in my house. 85 gallon (4 months old),
155
gallon (7 months old) & 200 + gallon (1 year old). I have
angel fish in all the 3 tanks.
I have a single pair in 85 gallon and 155 gallon tank. Which is
healthy and fish are happy in those 2 tanks. My other 200 + gallon tank
had 9 angel fish (same age and size) and 4 discus (different age, size
and new to the tan).
<Three and tank; with you so far>
The tank which is 200 + gallon, had no problems, It was going fine. One
day I added 4 discus to the tank.
<Sans quarantine>
When I had purchased the 4 discus fish, I put both thin discus in
my 85 gallon and the both shy discus fish in 200 gallon (they were in
there for more than a month). Later on I did moved the both shy discus
to 155 gallon tank, where they were in there for more than 15 days.
When I added them and uploaded pictures of them on a forum. People over
the forum informed me, that all the 4 discus has internal parasite.
<Quite common...>
So I needed to cure them. I asked for a suggestion to a LFS here
(same place where I purchased the discus) and followed his medication
procedure (confirmed it on a forum as well).
<... not so fast pardner... What med./s? and the SOP employed
please>
That is, moved the discus fish into a bath tub and started the
treatment,
<?!>
where they died the very next morning.
<Most such Symphysodon treatments are administered via
foods...>
However, I don't think so the discus were sick. 1 of them stayed in
the corner, the 2 of them were extremely thin, the 4th red discus (my
love) was okay, but he was shy once in a blue moon. The discus which
stayed in the corner all the time, use to come out only, when I use to
exit the room.
When I use to get back in the room, again he use to hide behind the
trees.
The previous owner said of this 4 discus said, his 4 blue diamond
discus died in the same tank where these discus were there. So he
don't want to go into loss and he does not has time to take care,
so he is selling his fish.
But still as per forum users and shop keepers, I followed their
advice.
Now the problem started after discus's death. The tank which is 200
gallon + had around 9 angel fish along with the 2 discus (which were
moved to a different tank later and into a bath tub). In those 9 angel
fish 2 were males, 6 were females & 1 undetected (however suspected
male). The very next day after the discus died, 1 of my female angel
fish had a big tummy (I knew the trouble has started, thinking internal
parasite has spread),
<Your changes in time are maddening>
but she was not on any of her side or upside down. She was swimming
perfectly. She was constantly on top of water. I moved her to a tub for
cure & she died. Then same thing started to happen with 4 female
angel fish and the undetected angelfish (one at a time). However the 2
males are healthy and perfect till date. Now I am left with a female
and 2 male angel fish. Where as the other 2 tanks fish are happy and
healthy, without any problem. I have done more than four times 80%
water change even past 2 weeks. Currently the last female angel fish in
the tank shows no signs like that, since I have done water change
yesterday. Still wondering this thing, the discus were there in all the
3 tanks, 2 tanks are healthy from past 2 months without a problem. The
biggest tank of mine had problems with only female angel fish. The shy
discus were big and dead, where and the thin ones are improving and
currently in 200+ gallon tank with angel fish. Any idea about
what's going on? I hope I haven't confused you guys. LOL.
:P
<... Well, could be your choice or means of administering
"med./s" are the problem here (can't tell as you
haven't related what was used and how), and/or that there is some
biological agent involved here (Protozoan, Worm...), or...?
DO read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/discusdisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above, and here for Angels:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/FWAngDisF6.htm
and on WWM re the use of whatever it is you've been pouring in...
Oh, and Metronidazole and Anthelminthics...
Bob Fenner>
Re: Hi I need help with angel fish! & Discus, hlth.
11/29/11
Thank you for you reply's!
Didn't expect is so quick.
<Glad to help.>
So here are the answers to the questions.
Regarding the discus cure, the LFS told me to move them in the bath tub
as all the 3 tanks had angel which were healthy and discus may spread
the disease.
<Would treat ALL fish in ALL tanks if there's any risk of
cross-contamination, e.g., through moving fish between tanks, shared
buckets and nets.>
The LFS store keeper requested me to use Metrogil or Flagyl to cure the
discus fish. He came and check the size of my bath tub. I checked the
medicine shop here and Metrogil was available at the moment, so e told
me to add 4 bottles of Metrogil and fill the entire tub. As soon as I
added discus to the tub, they were happy. However next morning they
died.
<Used correctly, ideally with veterinarian help, Metronidazole
(Flagyl) should be completely safe.>
So I believe I will have to make 1 more tank for my remaining 4 discus
fish. XD kewl. I will do that by today itself. & Also once the tank
is ready and cycled. Shall I keep it bare bottom tank for discus? As I
have heard that bare bottom tanks are best for discus fish.
<There is an argument for bare-bottom tanks when keeping Discus.
They're easy to clean, and with less "dirt" in the tank,
there's less risk from bacterial infections. On the other hand,
avoid bright light bouncing off the glass at the bottom -- Discus hate
this! There is an ample literature available on the care of Discus,
here at WWM and elsewhere. Modern forms are fairly hardy, and can be
kept in traditional tanks with plants and gravel. But avoid mixing with
known carriers of diseases, such as Angels, and keep stocking levels
LOW.>
So do you want me to currently put the medicine in all the tanks or
only infected tank?
<See above.>
~Lucky~
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: urgent Discus fish
laid eggs again. 8/11/11
Dear Sir,
<Howsit?>
One more discus fish stomach is swollen & eyes are bigger. I
started treatment of metrogyl 400mg 3tablet.
but I find now result. can I dip discus fish in potassium permanganate
water.
<Too toxic... I'd not use KMnO3 unless it was the only thing
available>
I want to safe his life.
On internet 100 of homemade food recipes are available for discus
fish.
I want you to suggest the best homemade food for discus fish.
can you please give me the recipes.
<You'll have to look about yourself here. There are quite a few
formulations; many based in part on terrestrial animal meat. Bob
Fenner>
Sick discus, help !!!!!!!!
Sick Discus 3/8/10
I have a sick discus and I'm pretty sure he has Hexamita he has
white stringy feces and is not eating one fish make that two fish have
already died the pet store gave me some Metro. But I'm not sure how
to properly administer this ??? the website where I found you says soak
food in 1 percent metro 1 percent of what ??? how much metro is that
??? a teaspoon tablespoon in terms of quantity I don't know ????
and what do I put some Metro in a cup and throw fish cube in it and
just let it soak in the fridge??? I also read 250mg of Metro directly
into the water per every 10 to 20 gallons ???? I'm greatly confused
I don't anymore fish to die please help !!!!!! Thanks, Freddie
Baigen
< If your discus is eating , then getting the medication into the
food is the best treatment. Check the ingredients for the medicated
foods at the fish store. If they don't have it then you can buy it
online at Drsfostersmith.com. You can also buy the medication to add to
the water directly. In the meantime I would recommend a 50% water
change, clean the filters and vacuum the gravel. Organic matter seams
to interfere with medications.-Chuck>
Metronidazole for breeding pair...
Symphysodon 9/16/09
Dear Crew
We have been doing a lot of reading, and are still somewhat confused
about the dosage for Metronidazole.
We have a breeding pair of Red Turquoises and have had them for about 3
months now. The male went off his food quite a few weeks ago and had
white stringy poo, so we treated him with Octozin by Waterlife. His
symptoms improved and we thought he started eating again. We also
treated the female with Octozin and then put the pair back
together.
<Never found Octozin terribly useful, to be honest.>
In the last couple of weeks however, we have noticed that he is taking
in food and then spitting it out again and swimming off rather than
eating the smaller pieces of food. We also have not noticed him poo at
all. He is dark in colour and hanging at the top of the tank.
<Sounds like Hexamita or similar; do review things like diet, water
temperature, and nitrate concentration, all relevant facts where
cichlids are concerned.>
We read that the most likely thing to be wrong is flagellates and the
best treatment for this is Metronidazole, however we have found many
conflicting methods for dosage.
<Optimal dosage is quoted in milligrams per kilogram of fish weight.
The fish can then be *fed* the precise amount of medication required
for proper effect. Because so few people know how heavy their fish are,
fishkeepers tend to go with a milligram per litre dosage instead, e.g.,
250 mg per 37.5 litres/10 US gallons (you will find both higher and
lower dosages recommended in the literature). But with the best will in
the world, this is a rough-and-ready approach. Your vet will have a
listed dosage in milligrams per kilogram fish weight, and you'd be
best going along with that.>
We live in the UK and have obtained 200mg tablets from our local vet.
We have the pair in a 100litre tank, all water parameters are fine and
we are raising the temperature to 32 degrees C (as we read that
Metronidazole will not work at temperatures lower than this) Currently
it is at 30 degrees and the male's colour has already improved,
although his stress bars are still visible. Please could you advise us
what the optimum course of treatment for Discus would be.
We were also wondering if there was any information regarding whether
this drug affects the fertility of fish, in particular Discus, as we
recently found out that Acriflavine can cause fish to become
sterile.
<Not heard of any such side effects re: Metronidazole, but an
infertile fish is certainly better than a dead one, so can't
imagine this being an issue as such.>
Thank you for your time, look forward to hearing from you.
Joe and Harriotte.
<Cheers, Neale.>
| Discus and salt and multiple Medication...
Western Hypochondria case... READ before buying, treating
livestock 3/20/07 Hello, <Hi there> I
recently bought 4 Discus by mail. One soon came down with Ich.
<Unusual...> I have been using Rid Ich+ <Mmm, harsh...
Malachite Green and Formalin... I would have just elevated the
temperature if the rest of the life could tolerate something near
90F... the Ichthyophthirius can't> and have 3 more days to
go. The white spots are gone from the infected fish but
he/she is very dark, has cloudy eyes and does not eat. <Very bad
signs...> Can I start him on Metronidazole while continuing the
Rid Ich? <What? Wait a minute here... Why do you want to do
this? Have you been in contact with the supplier of these fish? I
would not "just" administer this powerful anti-protozoal
w/o knowledge of what you're treating for> Also, I read that
adding some salt <What? No...> to the tank may help, but the
person at the LFS said Discus are very intolerant of salt and not
to do that. Is that correct? Thanks. <Please... invest some
"equal" time in reading (there are several excellent
books on Symphysodon), the Net... all sorts of Cichlid and
specialty Discus groups... before going any further... No to the
salt, Flagyl... Bob Fenner, who gets "stuck" with these
left-over queries everyday... and is not enjoying them this
AM> |
| More Two-fers...
3/20/07 Hello, I recently bought 4 Discus by mail. One soon
came down with Ich. I have been using Rid Ich+ and have 3 more days
to go. The white spots are gone from the infected fish
but he/she is very dark, has cloudy eyes and does not eat. Can I
start him on Metronidazole while continuing the Rid Ich? Also, I
read that adding some salt to the tank may help, but the person at
the LFS said Discus are very intolerant of salt and not to do that.
Is that correct? Thanks. <Your LFS is correct. Follow the
instructions on the medications you have, and don't add salt
unless those medications explicitly require it. Use of salt is very
"old school" and redundant in modern freshwater
fishkeeping. Medications generally should not be run in parallel
unless the manufacturers state that it is safe to do so.
Metronidazole should help with the Ich infection, according to
Seachem anyway, so I'd tend to run that treatment first, and
then Rid-Ich afterwards if required. Do two big (50%+) water
changes between treatments to flush out the one before using the
other. Cheers, Neale> |
| Re: Discus and salt and
multiple Medication 3/21/07 Thank you for
responding. When I came home today one Discus was dead. <Not
good.> The other 3 are lethargic and swimming at the top, one
with slimy spot on him. No doubt they will be dead by the morning.
<Doesn't sound promising, I admit.> I don't know what
I did wrong. <<What? You killed them... RMF>> (99% of
the time it is water chemistry & conditions. Maybe not this
time, but that's always where I start when I lose fish. Check
pH, hardness, nitrate, and nitrite. Also temperature, for discus,
it should be over 27C/80F, but that in turn reduces
oxygen in the water, so increase aeration if required. Moving fish
from the "wrong" water to "better" water can
even be a bad thing if done suddenly. You say (below) they were
kept in RO water, so presumably soft and acidic. But not all discus
are raised in soft and acidic water. What were the conditions at
the breeder's tank, I wonder?> 1 Discus and 2 tetras
(leftover from cycling the tank) came down with Ich. I had to treat
it. I raised the temp to 85 and used the product as directed. I had
bought 5 in 1 sticks for testing water quality and all are in the
good range. I just bought a Mardel NH3 monitor and it show 0
Ammonia. I only used RO water for change outs and did 10-20% every
other day while using the Rid Ich. I did add Seachem Ph Neutralizer
(Phosphate) once. Not knowing the Nh23 level before I bought the
monitor, I did a 25% change out last night which appears have made
matters much worse. <A long shot -- do you have carbon in the
filter? Carbon neutralizes most medications. One of many reasons
not to use carbon. Many is the time people have had carbon in the
tank, treated their fish, and then wondered why their fish stayed
sick or died.> Today I noticed white slime on the inside of the
aquarium glass. I guess I have learned my lesson the hard.
<Slime on the glass if brown/gold is diatoms, if blue-green is
Cyanobacteria. Both basically unsightly rather than worrisome,
though worth cleaning away.> Respond if you will, but not from
the PXXX who sent the second e-mail. Please revoke his privileges.
<Please be nice. If you think someone is rude to you, be twice
as polite back. Not only good karma, it also annoys the heck out of
people.> <<Neale... send this rude individual elsewhere,
or return such emails unanswered. RMF>> p.s. The breeder
takes no responsibility once the fish are put in the tank and does
not respond to emails. <Don't know what to say except
don't buy from him/her again. Discus are not easy fish, and
without knowing your level of expertise, it is impossible to
wholeheartedly recommend you try them again. Certainly, with
anything as difficult as discus I'd want to buy from a local
breeder and see the fish in the flesh first before spending any
money. Cheers, Neale> |
Treating discus with other fish... BGKs and med.s...
2/10/06 Hi to the WWM crew from the Philippines!!!!!!!!!!!
<Hello to you my friend> i am glad i saw your
site!!!! i currently have a 35gallon tank with 5
discus(2-3.5in), 2 algae eaters, <Keep your eyes on these... may
"ride" your discus, sucking on their sides...> 3 neon
tetras and 4 black ghost knives. <Yikes... crowded>
my concern is that i have been using a medication
called "Rid All" which i used to use in my Arowana to treat
my discus if they're showing any form of infection or sickness.
<Contains Malachite Green if memory serves....> the thing now is
that i added the 4 BGK's last week, and i just added my medication
to the tank 2 hours ago!!! some sites said that BGK's are sensitive
to medication, <Most types yes> do you think what i just did will
kill my BGK? <Didn't help them> do you think i should just
remove my BGK's from the tank every time i have to treat the other
fish (especially the discus)? <I would treat the discus elsewhere...
Bob Fenner> Arvin Jasper A. Cristi
Discus Question 2/10/06 Good Afternoon,
<Morning here/now> I am starting up a 65 gallon planted discus
tank and was wondering if I can have other fish in with them
(specifically angels, an elephant nose, cardinal tetras and maybe dwarf
gouramis). <The cardinals would be fine (if large enough, the discus
small enough), the other fish species are not recommended for various
reasons> Also, could you please tell me how many fish I
can house in a 65 gallon aquarium. <Could start with five discus of
smallish size (less than three inches in diameter), likely having to
remove all but two, three in time> Another question is with regards
to sand/gravel. I have been reading up on silica sand, black
beauty and other sandblasting sand. Could you please tell me
which is the best to use in my tank (currently running bare bottomed).
<Mmm, none of these would I choose. Look to Fluorite, lateritic
material... for function...> What medication (if any) should I
always have on hand. Thanking you in advance for any advise
you can offer. Lori <None. Like military hardware, lack of
knowledge/intelligence re same, you're too likely to use it. Bob
Fenner>
Discus Recovery 12/5/05 Chuck, the discus that was
returned to the main system is doing quite well. His appetite is
unbelievable! His fins are staying open and he's cruising around
the system. The loaches still play 'tag' with him a couple
times a day, but today we saw him chase them away from some food twice.
The substrate is 1.5" sand on top of 1.5" gravel on top of
2" peat. The other discus aren't showing much improvement at
all. Branon < The fact that one has recovered means that the
medications and treatment are working. Now it is just a matter of if
the rest of them are strong enough to fight back.-Chuck>
Discus Again 12/5/05 I did a water change for the
zombie trio and they're just looking worse and worse. I then
remembered something that I did differently for the one thriver from
all the rest. I did a dip for him in QuICK Cure and Melafix...so I
thought I'd give it a shot, since they're just going further
and further down hill. The fins on all three are shredded almost down
to the body. Two could hardly right themselves and were very slow to do
so. They hover at the water surface like they're trying to gasp for
breath (a problem with gill function?). < Just stress.>
They're extremely thin. They look similar to the others I've
noticed before dying, though they aren't laying on the floor as
the others did...yet. The other is also painfully thin, though he swims
better than the other two. His fins aren't quite as eroded as the
others, but not much behind them. I'm seriously considering just
stopping the Metronidazole as they don't seem to be showing any
outward signs of fungal/parasitic infections and just letting the
higher temps work or fail. Today I also treated their tank with a
vitamin drop at half strength...hoping it might at least help them in
case they'll start eating? Any other suggestions? < Discontinue
the treatment and lower the water temps to 78 F. Your fish are in no
shape for any further treatment. Add carbon to the water to remove any
medication. Do a 30% water change with clean treated tap water and
clean the filter. I really don't like the peat decomposing under
the gravel. Without oxygen it is probably rotting and contributing to
the problem. I would remove it with a gravel vacuum. This will remove
the organics while leaving the gravel behind.> None are feeding,
even when food is placed almost literally in their mouth...I
haven't been able to find the blackworms you suggested...someone
suggested adult brine shrimp? < Adult brine shrimp are not very
nutritious, worms are better.> ...is there a way of force feeding a
fish? < No not really.> I've had them on high temps (87-90)
for over a week now, so should I consider dropping the temps to around
84-85 to slow the metabolism? < Yes.> Should I try a little salt
to help the slime coat? Stress Coat? Anything else? Thanks. <Just
treat the water with a quality water conditioner.> Oh, the breeder I
got them from is going to send another batch (I just pay shipping) and
we're going to start them in a QT w/ sponge filter and make sure
they're adapted to the water and then slowly adapt them to the main
system when we're sure they're doing well. (He also recommended
just freezing those not doing well since they've been doing so
poorly for so long, though I'm of the opinion that the maker and
nature should be given the chance to take care of life and death). My
wife was somewhat reconciled by this, though she wasn't too happy
about the possibility of going through this again...it's been a bit
tough on me to watch animals wasting away. Anyway, thanks again.
Branon. < Tell the breeder about the conditions of your tank and get
his recommendations.-Chuck>
Discus Dying Still Chuck, et. al., we lost another of
the non-thrivers this morning, so we're down to the thriver in the
system and two remaining zombies in the QT. The temps in the QT are
slowly being reduced (84.8 F and dropping) and I'm still on the
look-out for black worms. I don't think I'm going to attempt to
remove the peat anytime this year...maybe after New Years :-) It is
buried under the sand and gravel, so will most likely mean removing all
the animals, the whole substrate (about 100 lbs of sand, 100 lbs of
gravel, and a muck-load of peat), rinsing the gravel and then putting
it all back together again, sans peat moss...not a fun thought. I have
a question about my setup also. I have a 1.5" drain from my
surface skimmer down into my W/D sump. Do you think this will be enough
to increase my pump return to 600gph? 1000gph? I have another surface
skimmer that has two 1.5" drains, but it is currently on my 55gal
reef and I'd rather not have to clean and trade them, along with
the system down time it would create. If that's what it takes,
though, so be it. That would then be another task for next year. Why is
it we start piling it on before the New Year even gets here?
....sigh.... Branon. <You an increase it to the flow and see if will
take it. Don't do it unless you are going to be around for awhile
to watch it.-Chuck>
Discus Help!! (Disaster) 11/19/05 I'm such a
moron! Ok, I always QT new animals before I put them in the 150 gal
show tank. I leave them in QT for at least 2 wks... normally 4+. I add
animals carefully and slowly... until this week. I ordered 8 discus
that weren't supposed to be shipped until after Thanksgiving... but
there was a mix-up and they got here Tues. My QT is a 20 gal and I just
moved some loaches, an angel, and a Farlowella into the main tank. I
didn't put the discus into the QT because a week ago I lost an
angel in it to fin rot and the dealer who sold me the discus said that
it would be better to just put them into the main tank instead of risk
picking something up from the QT. <Possibly the better route> My
wife noticed a little fungus on one of the dorsal fin rays of one of
the larger discus (about 2.5" sv) Wednesday and from what we'd
read in the FAQs we left it alone. Thursday evening we noticed that the
condition had worsened on the fin and moved to the sides as well...a
white, cottony patch about the size of a lima bean on the side and
another the size of a pinto on the dorsal fin. I have always had
success treating fungus with Melafix, <...> so I dosed the tank
per the directions (5ml/10 gal) as a preventative and did a separate
dip for the affected fish of 1 drop QuickCure <Too toxic...
malachite and formalin...> and .5 ml Melafix in 1 gal system water
for 5 min. The fish was returned to the system and seamed much improved
that night. This morning all of the discus are cowering in the corners
and black as pitch. <Bad...> The treated fish doesn't show
signs of the fungus, but instead has two streaks along his lateral line
that looks kind of like hard water stains on glass. Another of the
larger discus also has the same condition. Other discus are laying on
their sides and generally acting miserable. I haven't tried to feed
them yet, but they were taking flake and frozen bloodworm just fine
since Tuesday. My water parameters are 0 nitrates (yes, I check
everything I possibly can), 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia, 0 ammonium, pH 7.6,
<Better below 7.0> 3dKH, .5dGH (yes, that's 1/2dGH) 82
degrees F, though when I went to raise the temps to assist their
immunity, I accidentally dropped it to 79. (turned the knob the wrong
way!) <Arggghhh!> I've fixed the heater (300w Theo Hydor) so
the temps are slowly on the rise, I also have a 250w MH lamp that will
do the same... slowly. Conspecifics are 1 - 1" angel, <I would
not mix angels and Symphysodon... reasons posted on WWM> 3
-2.5" reticulated loaches, 1 - 2.5" clown loach, 1 - 6"
Farlowella sp., and 2 - Otocinclus. None of the other fish are showing
any problems at all. I had to take back a 2.5" angel, 6 - lg.
giant danios, 1 - 3" Severum, and 2 - 5" Plecos because of
stress/aggression concerns. All but the lg. angel were removed from the
system Monday. The lg angel was removed Tues. night due to bullying.
I've got 40gal of water aerating to do a water change this
afternoon... but I'm leaving town tomorrow morning for a week!
That's one of the reasons I didn't want the fish shipped until
then! What do I do!?!? Thank you. Branon. <I would not have bright
light on these fish (turn off the MH), I would lower the pH (slowly),
raise temperature as you're doing... and hope. The fish are
stressed... from being transported, handled, dosed... no more of these
"med.s", please. Bob Fenner>
Re: Discus Help!! addendum (Disaster, II) 11/19/05 I
forgot to tell you about the rest of the system... JIK. I have a 250
GPH return from a 200 gal rated wet dry filter. I have a Whisper 60 gal
OTB power filter at the same end as the return. I have a 600gph closed
loop to Under Gravel Jets for flow and to keep detritus off the
substrate. I also have a Maxi-Jet 900 by the surface skimmer box to
increase gas exchange and about a 12" wall of bubbles in the
middle of the back for oxygenation/gas exchange/circulation...is there
too much flow for them? <Should be fine> Is it too bright?...I
have 250w 10000k MH on left side, 1 - 25w. 6500k CFL in middle, and 2
40w 6500k standard t-12 bulbs on the right. I have a good amount of
plastic plants and 3 pieces of med. bogwood and some rock-work as well.
For a 72x18x28" tall tank, that shouldn't be too much light,
should it...I mean to add live plants soon...mostly under the MH....I
think I'll kill the lights to give them a break....any other
suggestions/questions to help with this? I really appreciate all the
help you give. Branon Rochelle. <I would turn off the MH for now.
Bob Fenner>
Discus Disaster Follow-up (Disaster, III) 11/29/05
Hello, Sir, Thanks for the advise. I am starting to doubt the
efficacy of Melafix, though my LFS swears by it! I had gotten a hold of
the breeder and he told me pretty much the same thing -- I could still
shoot him for not waiting to ship these poor discus until after
Thanksgiving as I had asked. He also told me not to worry about feeding
for the week I'd be gone as the fish could easily go two weeks
without eating... I'm starting to question my sanity for listening
to that one. Well, I raised the temps up to 86 (from the
accidental plummet of 79) and treated the tank with 15 tsps of Canning
Salt (I was told to use it instead of the normal 'aquarium
salt' because it is the same pure NaCl, just more soluble.) mixed
into the make up water of a 40gal water change for my 150gal discus
tank. The fish seemed to be improving by the evening and I had to leave
for the holidays praying that they would be alright...I don't know
anyone in my area who could have looked out for them while we were gone
for Thanksgiving week. I spent the week in the joy of family and
the fear of returning to find all my fish floating. Well, we got
back last night and found one 1" discus dead and have yet to find
my 1.5" angel. However, all things considered I was grateful to
have the other seven still alive. The disappointment is that ALL of
them look like the living dead! They're black, gaunt, and many
spending time on their sides on the bottom. Most have a white,
fungus-like dusting over their entire body (included the eyes on some)
and one or the larger fish (about 2") has about 8-10 ich-looking
spots. We fed them some bloodworms last night, as well as this morning,
and I think I saw everyone eat at least a little. I had set up a
drip system to take care of top-off while we were gone and apparently I
didn't set it to drip enough as my sump half dried up. I'm not
sure how long the water wasn't in contact with the bio-balls, but
the pump was still OK and the bio-balls only looked a bit dry. I was
afraid they might be reacting to an ammonia spike or some such, since
the dead discus was plastered to the intake for my closed loop. I
checked my water parameters and found that ammonia and nitrites were
still zero, though my nitrates had jumped to about 25mg/l. I did a
25gal water change today and treated again with 7 tsps of salt. I must
admit that I'm somewhat concerned as the fish seemed to be doing
better before I left, but now seem like they're wasting away. Am I
treating with enough salt/water? < Don't add any more salt.>
Should I use copper for the ich-like spots? < The higher water temps
should take care of the ich.> Should I do dips? <I would not do a
dip until the water parameters are corrected.> Should I get another
heater so I can raise my temps to 90F (currently running 1-- 250w and
1--300w)? < The heaters you have should be sufficient.> Should I
just scrap it and let my wife say "I told you so!"? < No ,
not too late.> Lighting is reduced to about 60w 6500K for 10hr.
There's plenty of hiding places. The pH is a bit high @ 7.6, but it
matches the breeder's pH and is what they've been in all their
lives (though I could drop it with some buffer). Hardness is .5 dGH and
5dKH. Temps are @ 85-86F. I have a 650gph Under Gravel Jet closed
loop, 260gph return from a 150gal rated wet/dry, and a 60gal rated
Whisper 3 power filter. I have GAC in the Whisper and in the sump
that I changed out right before the trip. My substrate is
1.5" peat, 1.5" gravel, 1.5-2" play sand (for
NNR). Top off (about 1gal/day) and water changes are done with
treated tap water that's allowed to stand for 24hrs. The
remaining discus are 3-- 2-2.5" German Brilliant Turks, 2--
1.5" Blue snakeskins, 1-- 1.5" Red snakeskin, and 1-- 1"
'Ceruleus' (sp?). Conspecifics are 3-- 2"
Reticulated loaches, 1-- 2" clown loach, 1-- 6" Farlowella
sp., and 2 Otocinclus. Feedings are twice daily with frozen bloodworms
and var. flake foods. Oh, the craziest part is that the one fish
I treated with the 5 min. dip with Quick-Cure and Melafix (yes, you
told me later that Malachite Green is too toxic) is actually the one
doing the best...not that that is saying much, but at least he's
showing some color and spreading his fins much more than anyone
else...go figure! Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Branon.
< Get rid of the blood worms. Treat the tank with a combination of
Nitrofurazone and Metronidazole. Do a 30% water change while vacuuming
the gravel. The peat is suppose to acidify the water but it is not
happening. These organics will interfere with the medications. Softer
water will help with the medications. Try changing 1/3 of the water
with distilled or R/O water. After the fish are better you can add
carbon to remove the rest of the medications and then add BioSpira by
Marineland to get the bacteria up and going again.-Chuck>
Discus Disaster IV 11/29/05 Well, for better or for
worse none of the remaining 7 discus died during the night, though at
least one looks like he may not survive the day. From doing a bit more
research...and from being at my wit's end, I've decided that I
must have over-medicated these poor discus and that my best option is
to do a 60gal. water change, try and raise the temps, and just pray
some more...I hope this is what's best. Oh, and the Nitrates are
actually somewhere between 12.5 and 25 mg/l...I just chose the higher
value because I didn't want to err on the low side. I wish I'd
had a large enough QT and that the breeder had waited to ship...but if
wishes were fishes....Branon. < The fish have been sick for awhile
and may respond to a little TLC with time. Write down all that you have
done so that you can refer back to it next time you have a problem and
will know what to do.-Chuck>
Discus Disaster V 11/29/05 Chuck, Thanks for the help! I have
a few questions about the response. First, you recommended
Nitrofurazone and Metronidazole. I understand that Nitrofurazone can be
found in Furacyn by Aquatronics, but everything I can find with
Metronidazole has a bunch of other meds in it, like Paragon II has
Metronidazole, Furazolidone, neomycin sulfate, Naladixic acid, sodium
chloride as the active ingredients...is this OK? < Go to
http://www.drsfostersmith.com to get the pure stuff.> Is there
something else out there you'd recommend? < No, these two are
best.> Also, if the temps should take care of the Ich...what am I
medicating for? < The Metronidazole will take care of any interior
bacterial infections and the Nitrofurazone will take care of any
exterior bacterial and fungal infections. The heat should take care of
the ich. Now you have everything covered.> I'm doing that water
change (60gal) and am thinking about trying to raise the temps up to
the 87-90 level and transferring the non-discus critters to a holding
tank. What do you recommend? Branon. < Leave the temp alone. Remove
any fish that are becoming too stressed from the
treatment.-Chuck>
Discus Disaster VI - 11/30/05 Chuck, this is getting out
of hand... I just did a head count and I'm down to 5 discus. After
much searching I found the cadaver of one little fellow, but the other
is MIA. Is it possible that, even with the plentiful supply of food the
discus don't eat and algae, the Farlowella, loaches, or even
Otocinclus could be a factor? I never did find the carcass of the angel
I lost while out of town for Thanksgiving. I think I'm just not
meant to keep these poor fish...though I don't understand why I
would have such a hard time now when I've kept them before without
problems...I just don't get it. Branon. <Your discus are
dropping off one by one. Make the suggested changes and medicate. The
algae eaters will eat the bodies but normally don't attack healthy
fish.-Chuck>
Discus Disaster VII 11/30/05 Chuck, I got a hold of
some SeaChem Metronidazole. I haven't been able to find the
Nitrofurazone, and am kind of leery about dosing both at the same time.
The store I got it from recommended garlic (to make the meds more
palatable) and vitamins, so I started dosing last night with 1 drop of
vitamin, about 10 drops garlic, and 1 scoop (bottle says about 100mg)
per feeding (2x daily). I also dosed the tank per the instructions (the
directions said 1-2 scoops per 10 gal, so I used 1 rounded scoop per 10
gal). < These things are helpful but do not cure things.> The
feeding has been slowly declining and that has me worried. They
don't even look at the flake, I've seen a few of them eat the
bloodworms, and I don't know what else to try. < If you refer to
an earlier reply I think I recommended that you do NOT feed
bloodworms.> The loaches are getting pretty darn fat from all the
stuff the discus aren't eating, though. My temps are at 87-88,
Ammonia and Nitrite at 0 and Nitrates at closer to 12.5 mg/l (even
after a 60+gal water change...though my NO3 kit is kind of old). They
aren't on the floor as much anymore, though they still look like
death warmed over. If I understand correctly, I should do a 25% water
change every 2 days and re-dose the tank afterwards <Treat the tank
with Metronidazole on day one, three and five. Do a 50% water change on
the 2nd,4th and 6th day.> The only thing I can think of is dropping
my pH with a buffer, say to 7.0. Do you think that would help? Is there
any reason not to do this? Any other suggestions? Thanks. Branon. <
When you do the water change I would drop the pH of the new water with
the buffer to 7 or slightly below before putting it in the new
tank.-Chuck>
Discus Making A Comeback, Yay! (Disaster, Part VIII) -
12/04/05 Chuck, Bob, and other fishy friends. I have to say that
this has been an experience. I am down to 4 out the 8 fish. I have
moved them to a 20gal bare bottom QT with all sides covered, doing 60%
daily water changes, treating every other day with Metronidazole and
feeding flake treated with metro-, garlic, and vitamins. One of the
fish, the largest of the group, has come around wonderfully, fins
extended and has been eating with gusto for the last 2 days.
However, he's also been terribly mean to the other 3, actually
picking our last mortality to death and fiercely pestering the most
weak of the remaining zombies. He's been so much improved, and
bothersome to his tankmates, that I moved him back to the display tank
(I don't have a 2nd QT) last night. This morning he was begging for
food but then retreated when I came to feed him and did not touch any
of the food...as far as I could tell. He has also darkened up a bit.
All of the water parameters are identical. I did a 50% water change on
the system 4 days ago and another yesterday. Temps are 87-88. I have
included a picture of the display system in case I need more cover
or...? Any suggestions? Branon < It sounds like you are on the right
track if one of the fish recovered. Discus are usually found in
schools, when the others recover and they are all together then the new
pecking order will be straightened out.-Chuck>
Discus Being Chased (Disaster, Part IX) 12/04/05 I
noticed today that the reticulated loaches seemed to chase and pester
the lone discus in the 150gal system. Is it possible that they are the
complication? < Aggression ads to the stress your discus are going
through. It would be best for the discus if they were not being chased
around.> I noticed the discus feeding on some flake that had fallen
from the water's surface. While eating and about, his fins are open
and he seems well, but when not he is dark and acts like he's
hiding. Any suggestions? Branon. < Hopefully his fins will stay open
more and more as he gets re-accustomed to the tank.-Chuck>
Discus Recovery (Disaster, Part X) 12/5/05 Chuck, the
discus that was returned to the main system is doing quite well. His
appetite is unbelievable! His fins are staying open and he's
cruising around the system. The loaches still play 'tag' with
him a couple times a day, but today we saw him chase them away from
some food twice. The substrate is 1.5" sand on top of 1.5"
gravel on top of 2" peat. The other discus aren't showing much
improvement at all. Branon < The fact that one has recovered means
that the medications and treatment are working. Now it is just a matter
of if the rest of them are strong enough to fight
back.-Chuck>
Discus Again (Disaster, Part XI) 12/5/05 I did a water
change for the zombie trio and they're just looking worse and
worse. I then remembered something that I did differently for the one
thriver from all the rest. I did a dip for him in QuICK Cure and
Melafix...so I thought I'd give it a shot, since they're just
going further and further down hill. The fins on all three are shredded
almost down to the body. Two could hardly right themselves and were
very slow to do so. They hover at the water surface like they're
trying to gasp for breath (a problem with gill function?). < Just
stress.> They're extremely thin. They look similar to the others
I've noticed before dying, though they aren't laying on the
floor as the others did...yet. The other is also painfully thin, though
he swims better than the other two. His fins aren't quite as eroded
as the others, but not much behind them. I'm seriously considering
just stopping the Metronidazole as they don't seem to be showing
any outward signs of fungal/parasitic infections and just letting the
higher temps work or fail. Today I also treated their tank with a
vitamin drop at half strength...hoping it might at least help them in
case they'll start eating? Any other suggestions? < Discontinue
the treatment and lower the water temps to 78 F. Your fish are in no
shape for any further treatment. Add carbon to the water to remove any
medication. Do a 30% water change with clean treated tap water and
clean the filter. I really don't like the peat decomposing under
the gravel. Without oxygen it is probably rotting and contributing to
the problem. I would remove it with a gravel vacuum. This will remove
the organics while leaving the gravel behind.> None are feeding,
even when food is placed almost literally in their mouth...I
haven't been able to find the blackworms you suggested...someone
suggested adult brine shrimp? < Adult brine shrimp are not very
nutritious, worms are better.> ...is there a way of force feeding a
fish? < No not really.> I've had them on high temps (87-90)
for over a week now, so should I consider dropping the temps to around
84-85 to slow the metabolism? < Yes.> Should I try a little salt
to help the slime coat? Stress Coat? Anything else? Thanks. <Just
treat the water with a quality water conditioner.> Oh, the breeder I
got them from is going to send another batch (I just pay shipping) and
we're going to start them in a QT w/ sponge filter and make sure
they're adapted to the water and then slowly adapt them to the main
system when we're sure they're doing well. (He also recommended
just freezing those not doing well since they've been doing so
poorly for so long, though I'm of the opinion that the maker and
nature should be given the chance to take care of life and death). My
wife was somewhat reconciled by this, though she wasn't too happy
about the possibility of going through this again...it's been a bit
tough on me to watch animals wasting away. Anyway, thanks again.
Branon. < Tell the breeder about the conditions of your tank and get
his recommendations.-Chuck>
Change the Substrate for Peat Sake (Disaster, Part XII)
12/5/05 I'm inclined to agree. I was a bit concerned about what
you asked about the "white 'stuff' on the bottom of the
tank" being the "peat fungused...(is that a word?)...up and
decomposing." I double checked the substrate and the only white
thing I can see is the white sand on top of the gravel on top of the
peat...but is there a large risk in the peat? The peat was purchased at
a garden center and I checked with the company that no
chemicals/fertilizers are used in the peat--just straight peat.
I've noticed quite a few air pockets (QUITE a few) in the peat and
was somewhat worried that these might pose a problem down the road, as
I don't know of any kind of "sand sifter" like the worms
in my reef tank. Could these become unhealthy? Are they trapped O or
something noxious or are they just converted Nitrogen? I've
noticed the same in my sand as well. The tank doesn't have an
unpleasant odor or any other indicator of "unhealthy" gasses
or water conditions that I can't test for with my test kits. I
don't know if I will ever do the peat in the substrate, though it
was wizard for my plants...and I think I'll get some in there soon,
too. What would grow well in a 28" deep tank w/ 250w 10000K
MH lighting and (2) 40w 6500K fluorescents...and a sand/gravel/peat
substrate? I'm going to replace the 10000K with a 6500K, but that
won't be for another 10 months or so. I want a bright side of the
tank and a darker side so that nervous fish have a refuge and the
bright for plants and for viewing pleasure. The discus has even started
venturing into the brighter part of the tank which has been a real
treat. I'm also planning on doing a cloud of cardinals (20+) and
that should look nice. Anyway, Thanks again for all the help. Branon.
< I would recommend laterite or fluorite as a substrate for an
aquarium with both plants and fish and skip the peat
moss.-Chuck>
Discus Dying Still (Disaster, Part XIII) Chuck, et.
al., we lost another of the non-thrivers this morning, so we're
down to the thriver in the system and two remaining zombies in the QT.
The temps in the QT are slowly being reduced (84.8 F and dropping) and
I'm still on the look-out for black worms. I don't think
I'm going to attempt to remove the peat anytime this year...maybe
after New Years :-) It is buried under the sand and gravel, so will
most likely mean removing all the animals, the whole substrate (about
100 lbs of sand, 100 lbs of gravel, and a muck-load of peat), rinsing
the gravel and then putting it all back together again, sans peat
moss...not a fun thought. I have a question about my setup also.
I have a 1.5" drain from my surface skimmer down into my W/D sump.
Do you think this will be enough to increase my pump return to 600gph?
1000gph? I have another surface skimmer that has two 1.5" drains,
but it is currently on my 55gal reef and I'd rather not have to
clean and trade them, along with the system down time it would create.
If that's what it takes, though, so be it. That would then be
another task for next year. Why is it we start piling it on before the
New Year even gets here? ....sigh.... Branon. <You an increase it to
the flow and see if will take it. Don't do it unless you are going
to be around for awhile to watch it.-Chuck>
Sick Discus Hi, I need your help, my discus seem to be sick
and I'm not sure what's happening. They are feeding but
they colour seems to be a bit not normal, some of them are dark but not
black, the smaller ones are slightly black. I have continually tested
the water and my nitrites and nitrates are zero, same with the ammonia,
they are in a hospital tank which I set up separately for them it is
well mature and has adequate filtration and there are no plants in this
tank. As well as the discus being of colour they seem to hang on
the bottom of the tank my temperature is 27C, so not sure if its that?
My local pet shop thinks it might be discus plague? These symptoms
didn't develop rapidly, and the stuff I've read gives very
conflicting ways of handling it? Any assistance would be appreciated as
I'm at my wits end. < You said your fish seem sick. Being dark
means they are not happy but it may not mean that they are sick. Good
thing that they are in a quarantine tank. I would raise the water temp
to 30C. Increase the aeration, water doesn't carry much oxygen at
that temp. Keep up with the water changes. Some discus guys do as much
as 50% per day. Discus do like acidic water. If your water is hard and
alkaline then I would cut it with 50% R/O or distilled water. If your
discus are wild then this should straighten them out. If your discus
are imported from Asia then they should be more resistant to the harder
water but may be more prone to come down with other diseases. Jet black
coloration on the surface of the fish usually indicates a bacterial
infection. The proper way to diagnose this is to have a culture
taken from the fish and propagate the organism in a Petri dish. Then a
series of different antibiotics are tested against the organism to see
which ones are effective. Not many aquarists are able to do this so we
"guess" at the problem and treat it with an antibiotic and
hope it works. Sometimes an antibiotic may work one time and not
another because the disease organism has mutated. If you think that
really is a problem then I would treat the tank with Metronidazole and
Nitrofuranace as per the directions on the packages. You should see
some improvement in a couple of days if we "guessed"
right.-Chuck>
Sick Discus II Hi, Thanks so much for the reply. I have three
urgent follow up questions. First, I wanted to confirm that you
believe by my description that my discus has "Dropsy" is that
correct? < No. Metronidazole works on anaerobic bacteria. It may
have an internal bacterial infection. Not all internal infections
result in dropsy. You don't see any external signs of disease so I
would assume that there may be an internal problem.> Second, I could
not start this treatment due to an International business trip that I
had scheduled. My discus is still alive and acting the same. I am
concerned that he/she has had this affliction for some 3-4 weeks. Is it
too late to begin this treatment? < You can soften the water and
raise the water temp as I suggested earlier. This alone may help.
Medicating fish requires lots of water changes to be successful. Unless
there is someone around to change the water then I would have the
medication on hand and put WWM on your favorite list for person you
have asked to care for your fish while you are away.> Third, can
this treatment be done in a quarantine tank or do you believe the
entire tank needs to be treated? Mark <A quarantine tank would be
best. These medications sometimes affect the good bacteria that are
required to break down the fish waste. After treatment you might have
to recycle you tank all over again.-Chuck>
Fish with Worms Hi Chuck! I have been following your advice
and treated the tank with Fluke-Tabs. No new sick fish so far but a bit
too early to say if it really worked. One thing though: it didn't
prevent the fishes that already showed symptoms of infection to die.
-Is this normal? <If sick fish are treated too late then a
combination of illness and medication will kill them sooner than the
parasite alone. Either way they would of died.> They Can this
medication save fishes already sick? < The key is early detection.
If the disease is treated early enough then it can cure fish without
killing them.> -I discovered another (expensive) medication called
PIPERAZINE CITRATE. Would it be even more effective than Mebendazole
and Trichlorfon (Fluke-Tabs)? <Depending on the parasite one may be
more effective than the other.> I think I will treat the tank again
in a month even if there is no sign of the parasite. I want to be sure
it's gone before I introduce the 5 discus I plan to buy. And at
least I will be prepared for the next attack. Dominique <Good luck
with those new discus.-Chuck>
Strange White Protrusion! Greetings Bob, Anthony et al! One
specimen of my shoal of six Cobalt Red Discus has a 1 mm diameter X 3
mm in length smooth white protrusion poking out of his left side right
out of the upper lateral line. About mid way down his side. No
"eyes" visible on this strange growth. I observe my fish VERY
closely. First noticed it three days ago as a small white dot. It
looked as though he might have lost a scale. (They do nip at each other
when feeding) Now over the past 72 hours it is definitely growing in
length; though not in diameter. It is smooth, white to a slightly cream
color. No swelling or soreness around the exit where this
"thing" emerges. This shoal has been together since birth.
Six months old and about 4" in diameter. No new fish have been
introduced. His activity and feeding is normal; voraciously eating my
beef heart recipe out of my hand as usual. I can touch these fish and
this growth seems firm but flexible. Sure seems like some critter to
me! Nothing fuzzy about it! Seemingly healthy pot planted 65 gallon, pH
6.7, TDS 85, temp 84 (though I'm starting to go up gradually) Eheim
2128 thermofilter, Emperor 280, Ebo Jager 200w, Aqua 25 watt UV on the
Eheim return, Milwaukee controller CO2 injected and very stable,
36" air curtain with Luft pump. What might this thing be and how
can I remove/exterminate it? Thanks! Charlie DeLorme <very fine set
up and stock. Possible sources of import for a "critter"
would be live plants and I've foods, naturally. If the fish can be
caught without too much trouble... a simple swab of the area with
Merthiolate/iodine should take care of it easily. Cover the fish
completely out of water with a towel that has been wet with aquarium
water. A fish with its eyes covered with not move much or at all...
plenty of time to work... no hurry, they can be out for minutes and you
only need a good 10-20 seconds. Drain the tank into a barrel before
catching fish safely in shallow water and then use a powerhead to pump
water back in easily. A fast sure way to catch fish in a full tank with
little harm. Anthony>
HELP! Strange Protuberance Part II <Anthony Calfo with the
follow up... I noticed the title of your query in the mailbox and
thought perhaps you saw a picture of Bob in a Speedo> Forgot to
mention I do two weekly 25% water changes. Carefully matched in temp
and H2O parameters. I thoroughly vacuum the bottom. Water is crystal
clear. Not overfeeding. No excessive algae. Plants are growing and
healthy. Just small algal growth on driftwood upon which the Discus
actually pick. I do have 1/4" maximum of gravel (doesn't
totally cover the bottom but makes the smooth rock pots blend in a
little better) This critter or whatever it is really makes me nervous!
I hand selected these fish from Bing Seto in Alameda, California.
Don't want to lose any! They're so friendly and cheerful! Not
to mention beautiful! Charlie <can you send a digital picture
(downsized and no zip please) for clarification. Kindly,
Anthony>
Bogus Fish Medication/Advice If anyone can help me, then that
would be you guys! <OK... Bonzai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!> I
have a question for you guys, I have a 55 gallon planted
tank. 135 watts of light, 125 and 170 penguin BioWheels and
a hot magnum. My PH is 6.4, my general hardness is 5 degrees
and my nitrites and ammonia are zero. I bought a couple of
discus a week and a half ago, and they both came down with what seems
almost immediately upon introduction to the tank with some sort of
ailment. <and you've learned a very hard lesson that
too many do... the need to quarantine all new fish in a separate
hospital tank first. Never add new fish directly to a display...
especially sensitive and disease prone species like discus. Please read
through our articles and archives on how to properly run QT. 4 weeks
minimum, please> They are a dark dark brown or black, with cloudy
eyes and like a powdery covering of white on the body.
<many possibilities here... but they likely need to be treated as if
for parasites. Formalin baths and salt in a bare-bottomed QT tank. You
cannot medicate the main tank. It will run fallow while fish are in QT
for a month. Bare bottomed QT with daily siphoning of tank bottom to
reduce parasites and larvae needed> They will not eat, and initially
I started treating them with Melafix, but it must have striped the
oxygen from the tank and all of the fish were hanging at the
top. <it is a bogus product and at best cannot be used
as a primary medicant. We get a tremendous amount of negative feedback
on such holistic products... yet I cannot recall hearing one good
comment for every 100 bad ones. Makes you wonder if the one percent
success rate isn't just coincidence anyway> So the LFS
recommended Maracyn (ungodly expensive) for treatment. <grossly
ignorant if not irresponsible of your LFS. Maracyn is a gram positive
antibiotic... less than 20% of all bacterial infections are gram
positive, and of them only a tiny fraction respond to Maracyn ( which
is common and outdated Erythromycin). To add insult to injury in your
case... there is nothing to suggest that this infection is even
remotely bacterial in nature. There is a pretty sweet profit margin on
medications though :) > After three days the discus are still very
dark in color, <Oh, ya...> inactive and not eating the white
powdery film on the their bodies may have somewhat gone away,
<sloughing of mucus... natural response> but their eyes are still
cloudy. Is there any way that I can coax them into eating,
that would only help them heal faster, you would think.
<higher, stable temperatures with extremely vigorous aeration.
Target 84-86F> If this is not the correct treatment for these fish,
<no kidding... this wasn't even a treatment at all... you were
given very poor advice> what would the proper treatment
be? <as per above... Formalin (Aquarium Products and
several others brands available) and isolation in QT> I would really
hate to lose these two fish, I have very high expectations of
them. <I suspect that they have high expectations for
life too> There is no Plecos to harass them, and only peaceful
smaller fish in the tank. All of the other fish are
perfectly normal and healthy. I appreciate your
time. Thank you Dave McCorkell <Dave... please invest in
a good diagnostic book on diseases (low end but very good: Handbook of
Fish Diseases by Untergasser... and high end, the Noga reference). Also
buy a good discus book. Worthwhile investments before you buy any more
fishes. Best regards, Anthony>
Discus Disease Questions, and Waterlife Products Hello, I
would like to ask a question about Discus diseases. I have just
imported some Discus from Thailand and one of them seems to be
sick. It stays on the top of the water in a corner, it does
not feed and it has some white markings on its body (something like a
FUNGUS). Its fin-tail has also started to rod. It seems to
me that it suffers from HEXAMITA. First I would like to ask
if this might be the sickness. <It is quite
possible. Of course, without seeing the fish, please
understand that we can't tell you anything definitive - but your
description of its symptoms does very much sound consistent with
Hexamita. If you have access to a decent microscope, you
might try to get a skin scrape to look at so you can find out for
sure. If that's not possible, I'd probably go ahead
and treat for Hexamita. You can also do a Google search for
"Hexamita" or "Discus Plague" and compare the
pictures with your fish.> Second: if this is the sickness, then how
do I treat it with WATERLIFE ( http://www.waterlife.co.uk ) products
(I need a medication that has METRONIDAZOLE in it, and Waterlife is the
only products I can get now). <I agree very much that you should
treat with Metronidazole.... Unfortunately, I cannot find
any listings for ingredients of any of the Waterlife
products. Nor have any internet searches yielded ingredients
for these products. I would very strongly suggest contacting
the Waterlife company and asking what, if any, of their products are or
contain Metronidazole. I have done this as well, and I hope
to get a reply. They have a product called
"Octozin" which they claim works for hole-in-the-head disease
(another name for Hexamita). Since I can't find the
ingredients, I really don't know further what to recommend; the
best method of treatment for Hexamita is to treat with Metronidazole in
food (about 1% Metronidazole by weight). If you ask them and
they don't get back to you in enough time, I suppose I'd go
ahead with the Octozin as directed on the package and hope for the best
- I really don't know what more to try. Furthermore, I
believe I would treat all the discus that are in contact with the sick
one, as Hexamita does seem to spread quickly.> Thank you very
much. Antonis <You bet. Wishing you well for the
holidays, -Sabrina>
Discus problem Hey crew, I am here today with somewhat of a
serious problem on my hands with my discus tank. Before I go into
it, let me tell you about the tank setup. 46 gallon bowfront; planted.
with outside filter and sponge filter. Houses 3 clown loaches, 14 inch
dragon fish, 5 medium brown discus and 1 larger blue discus. Correct
readings are: temp 84, NO3 20, NO2 0, hardness about 200, alkalinity about 50, pH of
6.6-ish. Here is my problem. About a week ago, I brought home a small
diamond discus and did not quarantine him. After placing him into this
tank I noticed that he was generally malaised and was either a. sitting
on his side on the gravel, or b floating on his side. He had slime coat
issues as well and did not look good at all. I removed him and placed
him into a 10 gallon hosp tank. Now for my main tank. All of the
discus are sickly. The larger discus became dark and started hiding
behind some slate rocks I propped up against the back wall. He
developed whitish streaks on his body (slime probably) and fins are
clamped. The smaller discuses were all very lethargic and would rest on
their sides a lot (just lay there on the gravel) or float sideways
inside a big piece of driftwood I have in the tank (its hollow on the
bottom so its like a little cave thing). Their coats became less
healthy (less shiny) than usual and they do not move around much at
all. Here is what I proceeded to do after taking the new comer out
(that bastard!). I dropped the water level to 1/2 or so. the only
filter currently working there is the sponge. I installed an R/O water
unit and am using that water to do 5 gallon daily changes (so about 20
percent or so daily, adding half a teaspoon of R/O vital by Mark
Weiss). My local pet store owner told me to add Metronidazole to the
water at a rate of 500mg / 10 gal daily which I am doing. I am also
adding "rid Ich +" by Kordon which is a formalin/mal green
mix to the tank. This is the 3rd day of treatment. The fish has
shown improvement (somewhat) and have even come out to eat at times
during feedings. They no longer lay on their sides, but they still hide
inside the driftwood for most of the day. The larger fish is still
facing the back (black) of the tank. This does not seem to affect any
other fish in there including the clown loaches or the
Dragonfish. As for the newcomer, he is getting the same treatment
in the hosp tank (I don't know, I felt better taking him out even though the
whole tank was already infected.) He has livened up some and
doesn't lay on his side for the most part anymore, but he developed
white, cloudy appearance towards the back of his body and his tail has
become yellow instead of clear. I am really sorry about the length of
this question. Prior to this issue, I have not had much problems with
discus and this teaches me a valuable lesson!! QUARANTINE. For now
however, please advice on my correct situation. Eternally
grateful, DK < You are getting excellent advice from your local pet
store. I think once your fish are eating they will get better over
time. I would start watching for ammonia and nitrite spikes in the
water. The medication may or may not have an affect on the nitrifying
bacteria so I would continue to keep the water as clean as possible.
Continue with the water changes even after the fish have recovered to
make sure that the good bacteria are also back and
active.-Chuck>
