Question about freshwater stingray tankmates 1/2/09
Hi. Im just curious if I'm choosing the right tank mates for my soon to be stingray.
<Easy: invariably and unarguably best kept alone or with their own kind. Only the most expert Stingray keeper should even begin considering tankmates. If this is your first specimen, keep it alone. Your work is already substantial just maintaining the water quality the Ray will need, without adding another variable to the equation.>
Im in the process of switching my fish only 250 gallon saltwater to freshwater. Also, if you have any suggestions on the best way to get all the salt out, feel free to let me know :)
<Water changes will do. Salt is not especially toxic to Stingrays, and trace amounts will do no harm. Still, do take time to rinse away any salt/lime deposits on pipes, in filters, and so on.>
I have a list of fish I would like to purchase but would love your opinion before I invest over $400 on these fish.
<Fire away.>
Also if you have any suggestions on stingrays for the size of my tank, that would be appreciated; I'm currently looking at the Hystrix or Motoro Stingray.
<Potamotrygon motoro is a widely traded species, but its adult disc size around 60 cm/2 feet shouldn't be underestimated; adults WILL require a tank measuring twice their disc size from front to back. That apart, this species generally does well in captivity. Potamotrygon hystrix is smaller, getting to a bit above 30 cm/12 inches or so in diameter, but is rarely traded and definitely one of the more difficult species to maintain. In all honesty, despite its "small" size, it's best avoided by beginners.>
Ok, so here's my list- 3 black ghost knife fish,
<I'd not; Apteronotus are difficult to keep at the best of times.>
gold dojo loach,
<Gregarious, boisterous fish that prefer relatively cool, fast-flowing conditions in tanks with lots of rocky caves; not much overlap between their needs and those of the Stingray.>
upside down catfish,
<Likely to be too nippy.>
3-5 figure 8 puffers
<Needs brackish water; too nippy.>
ornate bichir,
<Possible; bichirs are sometimes kept with Rays, but it depends on the temperament of both, not to mention the size of the tank. Since Polypterus ornatipinnis is one of the larger species, it could be territorial enough to damage your Rays.>
2 black veil angels,
<Viable, but the quality of mass-produced Pterophyllum is often poor, and so quarantining the Angels prior to adding to the tank is essential. I'd probably go for Discus or even Oscars in preference.>
2 electric blue lobsters,
<Stingray food.>
2 African butterfly fish,
<Possible, providing the Pantodon have suitable hiding places and areas with moderate water flow.>
mudskipper,
<Brackish water and amphibious; have no place at all in this system.>
zebra Pleco, queen Pleco and golden nugget Pleco.
<Plecs are best not kept with Stingrays because of the possibility of damage by the catfish to the Ray when feeding or fighting over hiding places.>
Im a little iffy on the loach and mudskipper...afraid they'll get eaten. Also iffy on the puffers with the stingray but I'm hoping in this decent size tank they'll be ok. Thank you so much Christina
<In all honesty: stick with the Rays for now. Many books on the subject, and a review of one or more of these will reveal good reasons to avoid tankmates. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: question about freshwater stingray tankmates 01/09/09
Thank you so much for responding to my last email with such great advice.
<Happy to help.>
I thought everything over and need your advice again. I found a stingray I fell in love with- it’s called the Tiger Stingray (Potamotrygon menchacai).
<According to Fishbase, a variety of Potamotrygon falkneri. A big species: disk diameter of well over 50 cm/20 inches is not exceptional, and consequently you'll need a tank upwards of a meter (about three feet) in width from front to back. Also known to be a relatively shy species that mixes poorly with other fish. As I said before, given your inexperience, you have no business at all mixing your Stingrays with any other fish.>
I was wondering if she would be compatible with the butterfly fish, ghost knife and ornate bichir.
<With the Pantodon buchholzi surely, and the Eigenmannia possibly, though it's a gregarious and difficult species at the best of time. As for the Bichir, I'd recommend against because of its size and messiness, at least initially.>
I also already have the electric blue crawfish :/ and gold nugget Plecos which I know you said might be a problem with the ray but if I do notice even the slightest problem with the Plecos unfortunately they will have to go- I just love the gold nuggets so much.
<I really can't stress this point strongly enough: injured Stingrays usually die. Looking out for signs of damage is usually pointless, because by the time you see damage to the Ray, it's too late to save it. Yes, I have seen experienced keepers combine Stingrays with plecs, but if this is your first Stingray, I really can't advise you to do anything other than keep your specimens in their own tank.>
And the crawfish are so big (and quick!) I'm just going to hope they'll be able to get away.
<Again, this is a variable you likely shouldn't have to consider. Small crayfish are food, while bigger specimens have the potential of causing harm, and certainly stealing food or reducing water quality, should they die.>
Plus the ray is only 6inches supposedly- I’m making my decision with this ray Monday- she's a little costly...$300.
<This is my point: these are incredibly expensive fish that rely absolutely on perfect (not merely excellent) water conditions. Why risk a $300 Stingray for a $5 crayfish? If you don't have the space or budget to house the crayfish or Baryancistrus catfish on their own, you don't have the space of budget to keep Stingrays. Think of it this way: your Stingray will demand a tank measured in the thousands of litres (mid to high hundreds of gallons) and a constant supply of deionized or otherwise nitrate- and pollutant-free water. So you're going to be spending some $300 on the ray, and at least 10 times that on the tank, cabinet and massive filtration systems, even before you factor in the electricity and water over the 10+ years of the Stingrays life. Do please spend some money on a Stingray book before doing anything else.>
Oh yeah, I was thinking about a couple discus fish as well...
<Can mix with Stingrays, but best kept in groups of 6+, and that means you'll need to consider water quality issues.>
I appreciate any more advice... thank you again!
Christina
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: question about freshwater stingray tankmates 01/09/09
Ok. Thanks again.
<My pleasure.>
I did have a stingray in my saltwater tank which seemed relatively easy but I do understand the high responsibility of this species so maybe I will purchase a book just be sure- any recommendations?
<Saltwater makes keeping rays a bit easier: the sodium chloride reduces the toxicity of nitrate, and the use of live rock and skimmers makes management of the nitrogen cycle generally much, much easier. The marine salt mid automatically stabilises the pH and mineral content of the water within narrow parameters, so your ray isn't exposed to much variation. In a freshwater tank, you have to manage ammonia and nitrite via the filter, nitrate through water changes, pH through water changes, and mineral content through water changes. It's a substantially more delicate, finicky process. It's far from impossible, but it is difficult, much more difficult than keeping a reef tank. In terms of books, for under $10 there's a decent Barron's title called "Freshwater Stingrays", while Interpet have a similarly priced tome by the name of "Freshwater Stingray: An In-Depth Survey of These Magnificent Fishes". Either of these would be well worth investing in before doing anything else.>
So even though my tank is 250 with a 90 gallon overflow, PH 6.4 (low?), nitrate/nitrite 0% and using RO water with some experience with rays you still wouldn't recommend the Tiger Ray? (Tank measurements 5.5 ft long, 2.5ft deep, 2.5ft tall)
<The problem with freshwater stingrays is they're big fish. Tanks that seem huge by any other standards are veritable goldfish bowls when used for stingray keeping! I dare say the tank you have would work just fine and dandy for one of the smaller, "beginner" species (I use the word "beginner" in quotes because no stingray really is easy to keep). But for a fish that has the potential to be almost two feet across its disc, a tank measuring 2.5 feet front to back isn't all that big. Please, sit on your hands a bit until you've had a chance to read one of the books on the topic. The tank you have is certainly viable, but you need to choose your species with care. Better to get a smallish species that has a good chance of surviving than a big, pretty species that dies a few weeks later.>
I've had an ornate before, seemed extremely easy to care for and wasn't messy at all.
<Bichirs are among my favourite fish, and I'm not dissing them at all! But a 35 cm./14" predator is a whole lot of fish to add to a Stingray aquarium. It's going to be pumping out ammonia, and that's something I don't think you want to be working with right now. The most successful Stingray tanks I've seen either keep them alone, or else mix them with surface dwellers like Arowanas so that there is little to no interaction.>
I understand with the Plecos so I will take that into consideration. And I would surely get rid of the crawfish for the ray any day...
<Indeed! I hope I'm not being too negative: I really do like rays. But they're a lot of work, and expensive, and potentially dangerous as well. So research first! Good luck, Neale.>
Thanks again, I really appreciate all of your advice.
Christina

FW Stingray & Catfish Compatibility, sys.  12/30/08
Hi,
I am interested in purchasing an Atlantic Freshwater Stingray for a 990 gallon (yes, 990!) round tank. Current tank-mates include some channel cats, red ear sunfish, Plecos, and a small warmouth. There is also a bullhead cat and a spotted cat in there that we will most likely move to another tank.
The tank is filled with hard water, plenty of sand and tall plants for hiding, and is filtered with one large biofilter and a UV filtration system.
I am wondering if this tank and the fish currently in it are a compatible match for the stingray.
<Mmm, likely so... if they are all not too-mis-matched for size>
I read that FW stingrays prefer soft, acidic water but what range is safe for them?
<Can, do tolerate moderately hard, alkaline water... Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwstingrays.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Christy