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FAQs on Red Devil Cichlids: Disease

Constipated Midas Cichlid - 07/19/08
Hi,
<Len>
My normally ravenous Midas Cichlid lost interest in food over two weeks ago. She is about 25cm (10") long, about 14cm (5.5") "tall", and a good 7-8cm (2.5-3") thick.
<Appears to be a very nice specimen>
I don't know how old she is. Her stomach and the area surrounding her anus are very swollen. She has some asymmetrical damage to some scales around her anus that appear (to me) to be injuries after the fact. Her scales are flat against her body with no pine-coning even on the few damaged ones. I managed to get a picture of her despite her wanting to attack the camera through the glass. One of the cats distracted her for a minute. Her water quality is good with zero ammonia and nitrite, but nitrate is around 30-40 ppm at this exact moment.
<Much too high... I'd be addressing means to keep this under at most 20 ppm. See WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwnitrates.htm
and the linked files above>
I'm just about to do a 30% water change. Maintaining proper water quality for her has been a challenge because I adopted her when her previous owners moved to another province six months ago, but I only had a 33 gallon tank for her.
<Much too small>
Needless to say she is alone in the tank. She would kill any other fish (even my 30cm (12") Pleco). She even tries to bite my cats through the glass if they get too close to her tank. It is nice to see the tables turned for a change. They are scared of her. I have to do a partial water change every four days or her tank smells up the place and nitrate rises fast. I make sure her tank is very well aerated and I keep the temperature at 80 Fahrenheit. The pH is a hair above 6.5.
I know it is very cruel to keep her in so small a tank, but I am doing the best I can until I can get a new and much larger tank when I move in a couple weeks. I treated her with an anti-bacterial and an anti-parasite since she stopped eating with no results at least regarding the constipation. Right now there is a carbon filter in the tank and I'm concentrating on good water quality.
<Good>
I've fasted her several times, and then tried peeled peas, blanched spinach, and her usual algae wafers. She would only eat the algae wafers. The three top ingredients in the wafers are Spirulina powder, dehydrated alfalfa meal, and pea powder. The wafers seemed to help, and at one point she was eating a few of her favorite Hikari pellets and defecating a little bit. The poo looked normal for her, but thinner like her anus was half the diameter it used to be. It passed through her in the usual amount of time. Since about four days ago she has been corked up totally and completely uninterested in any food. Other than eating, she seems to be mostly fine. She is still interested in redecorating her tank, chasing the cats, and carefully watching everything that happens in the house. I can't help but feel like she is trying to tell me something, but I can't figure it out. I'm worried that she has eaten a bunch of the aquarium gravel from her tank. She is always moving gravel around with her mouth, dramatically sucking water from under large rocks and she was always a big eater. I feed her (sinking) shrimp pellets now and then for variety and I have wondered how she sorts the pellets from the gravel. I will get fine sand for her new tank just in case. I'm thinking 100-125 gallons should be okay for just her or maybe a pair if I get a male later. She looks like she has quite the hump on her forehead, but according to her last owners, she laid eggs every now and then so she must be a female. I haven't seen her lay any eggs myself. Please help me figure out how to help her. Despite her anti-social attitude and desire to bite everything, she is very sweet. She swims up to the top of the tank and eats algae wafers from my hands and allows me to touch her ever so gently when I'm trying to clean her tank. Of course she gets irate when I touch her rocks or rearrange anything, so I do that part very carefully.
<I'll bet!>
On a completely different subject... when I move to my new house I'm carrying her and my other fish in two large Tupperware-like plastic bins half full of water. I was concerned about how they would fair after seven hours in my truck in the August heat with low oxygen, but I came up with a clever plan. I bought a 12 volt power inverter that plugs into my car's cigarette lighter and outputs household AC current. I am going to plug a regular aquarium air bubbler in and bubble air through tubing (and check valves) into airstones at the bottom of the bins. I can control the temperature by bubbling air conditioned or heated air through the bins. My inverter can only output 75 watts, so if anyone needed to use a heater they would need a more powerful inverter. I thought somebody else might appreciate the idea. You can also plug in LED Christmas lights and string them under your car for a cheap but really cool lighting effect.
<Thank you for this>
Thanks in advance,
Len.
<I consider that the principal "cause" of this condition is environmental... the nitrate, too small a world... Solving these/this is really the solution here. Treating the symptoms, whether this might be a case of egg-binding, or some sort of gut blockage... with Epsom Salt, is a possibility, but only by improving this fish's world will a permanent solution be made. Bob Fenner>

Re: Red Devil Has Not Eaten in 1 Week! - 07/13/08
Red Devil Rolling Over
Thanks. Every day it is fish fish fish all day! Yes the washing machine broke. Yes the teenager is giving me problems. Yes the house is a mess. Today it was evident that the goldfish have the ich so I had to learn how to take down the Magnum 350 and the Fluval without flooding the house and medicate them. Taking those down was a huge project for us. Now that I understand it will be easier in the future. But once again I am really concerned because their tank has not cycled and I do not know if the RidIch will harm the biological filter or the Plecostomus. On and on it goes. Hopefully in another 2 weeks we will be out of the woods.
Plus now that I have the heater on the Red Devil and his water is a bit less cloudy I see that he is rolling over and flashing (?) and do not know if this is normal cichlid behavior or if I should look through the murkiness and try to diagnose a disease. He is moving about more than he has in days - doing the building, spouting rocks and so he seems a bit better. No-one really discusses their behaviors enough for me to determine if I should look for disease. Is rolling over common? Sad for me that the most tacky piece of decor that he came with - and that I was planning on replacing - he is most attached to - and when I move it his nest moves to be by that piece! Funny.
< When fish turn on their sides and seem to dash against objects it usually means that something is irritating their skin. Could be parasites or pollution in the water. Some medications can harm the biological filtration, even when they say they are safe.-Chuck>

Re: Red Devil Has Not Eaten in 1 Week! 7/15/08
Red Devil Scratching
Yes, now that I have to medicate the goldfish I understand that it will take much longer to for their tank to cycle properly. Since we had a bit of a cold spell that brought on the ick I am going to put a heater on their tank and set it so it kicks in only with temperature changes. Would like to put a chiller on there too but the cost of that along with the R/O water is getting crazy for me.
The cichlid has been coming out at night and not rolling or flashing so I do not know if he is better or not. Are they primarily nocturnal?
< No not really. Chances are the irritation still exists.>
We are keeping his area dark as much as possible and the cloudiness is finally starting to clear. Again, I have tried to research behaviors and have read of people wanting their fish to roll over like a dog but do not know if this might be normal happy behavior or evidence of his world gone awry with the bad chemistry upsetting his equilibrium.
< I think it is more of the latter.>
I know he is far from well because he is hiding in his corner that he built for himself and if he were well he would be far more curious about us and our activities. Even with the heater I see that the temperature still can fluctuate 3 degrees during the day and night. He rolled over while visiting with my husband who loves him and animals love my husband too. They can sense it. So maybe it was OK?
< Central American cichlids can be quite responsive to people and things outside their aquarium.>
I took his rocks out for examination to see if they were calcifying and possibly adding to cloudiness of tank but the fish store guy says no. I put them back in and he is not rubbing against them. (His gravel is somehow contributing to the cloudiness in combination with the bacteria I guess. I am told that when he stabilizes I need to replace it.)
< Some substrates are not suitable for aquariums. Most of the sand/gravel from pet shops should be ok after it is rinsed.>
Honestly I am having a bit of difficulty with your website because there is so much I suppose. When I try to follow the advice to read the Dr. on Marineland's' site I cannot find him. Trying to research R/O water and buffers brings up a zillion articles for me to read so I am overwhelmed to say the least. Thanks. Got to go make dinner now.
< Dr. Tim Hovanec is no longer with Marineland and has taken his articles with him to start his own business. After I talked to him has agreed to repost his articles on his own website in the near future.-Chuck>

Red Devil Query
I have a red devil in a 55 gallon tank, and he is about 25 cm long... I just noticed recently he likes going to the top of the tank and it seems like he's grabbing air, although I know that's no true cause that's just the way fish work, breath thru the water.. I was wondering why would it seem that he is always going up there and doing that?? is he healthy? he also doesn't eat anything some times. he's really picky... I was thinking of giving him to the pet store because I don't know if I can handle him not eating and such.
>>>Hello Mike,
First thing, please use proper grammar and spelling when you post a query here. Taking time to correct these things just means I have less energy to devote to your question. All of these questions are posted on the site FAQ, so bad spelling and grammar must be corrected.
Now...
These fish are large, messy eaters and will place a tremendous strain on the filtration system. Nitrogen cycle management is paramount with large cichlids such as these. Failure to do so can cause a myriad of health issues. I need more info. What is your setup? How is the water circulation? How often do you perform water changes? Lack of oxygen in the water can cause the behavior you describe. The fish is literally gasping for air.
Regards
Jim<<<

Red Devil Doesn't Move
Thanks but now I have another problem! My red devil is not eating! He just sits in a pit he made and never really comes out! And I got a new Flowerhorn. It used to stay under my filter because the red devil was chasing it but then I read some of the stuff about other people cichlids chasing other fish from their territory and adding a fast fish to get off each other and so I put a Danio fish and the Flowerhorn chases it but after that the red devil just chases the Flowerhorn a little now but then that's when he just stays in that pit he made so please help. Sean Thanks
< If it is a disease then it needs to be treated, but I don't think that is you problem. If your red devil is intimidated by the new fish then try this. Take all the rocks and ornaments out. Do a 30% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. Rearrange all the rocks and ornaments in different areas. This will force the fish to establish all new territories and should stimulate their appetite as well. Add a few more Danios too. These are referred to as dither fish in this case.-Chuck>

Re: My fish **red devil*** needs a hug**
Hi there again, I don't know that I could thank you enough. Do you take donations or how can I support your company?? You are very prompt and obviously care about the well being of fish.
<We try to save organisms and keep people in the hobby one question at a time.>
This military family salutes you.
< On behalf of Bob and the crew we thank you for your kind words.>
I feel like I am making progress here, but I am still concerned as I narrow down my clues. I have been in a mad dash for education on my red devil. :o) I am praying and crossing my fingers that I am learning quick enough.
My red devil is now sitting on the bottom of the tank turning on his side. *sigh** I can tell he doesn't feel well, and it is all he can do to come "kiss" at me and the children then he is right back in his safe spot.
I had my water tested at the local pet shop. They had no testers available for me to purchase. I have to order one or maybe E-bay, I see you recommend Liquid Reagent test kits. In the meantime, I have to fix it. The pet store, although I did not get a number, says the PH is out of site, everything else is fine. Dropper turned my PH dark blue when it should be light blue. I sure hope I caught this in time.
I changed 50% of the water and added bottled water. I see you recommend chemicals only as a last resort. I have not added any chemicals outside of what I have always done in the past. There is Stress Coat and Ick away in the tank. Should I add something else? Should I remove him? I know it takes time for the water change to take affect, but heck it only takes time for him to die too. In general how long does it take to see improvement on PH??
< The pH may change quickly or not depending on the minerals in the water. red devils are pretty tough customers and I don't think that pH is your problem.>
We are on ten days now. He has quit eating, and lethargic. How are we looking?? Have I learned quick enough?
Here is a photo of our Red Devil. yes he is very similar to the photos on the site you recommended, only he doesn't feel good. :o)
Again thank you for your help. I think you are providing a prompt and a wonderful service.
Jessica
<Do a 30% water change while vacuuming the gravel. This gets rid of the crud and opens up your undergravel filter. It will reduce the nitrates too. Keep the water temp up around 80 degrees F. I would treat with Metronidazole and rid-ich as per the directions on the packages. Do not feed until he starts moving around. Don't worry about the pH for now. Look online at DrsFosterSmith.com for medications that you can't find locally.-Chuck>

More Red Devil Problems
Chuck, Hello there,
We still have no sign of difference in attitude. However, in observing him I have noticed a couple of other things. He does this darting business about 3-4 times a day. He seems to scrape himself on the rocks. He is taking short deep breaths and seems to flutter his front fins like shooing a fly or maybe shaking?? I think I am seeing a spot behind his right fin that is outlined with a red blotch. I feel inclined to add some Epsom salt. What is your recommendation?? I am still not feeding and plan to vacuum the tank today.
Looking forward to hearing from you. Jessica
< A red blotch is the sign of an external bacterial infection. This may have been caused by the dashing against the rocks and opening a wound or by bacteria eating away at a spot on the skin. Based on your tank readings your tank is pretty clean so I would treat with Nitrofurazone to get rid of the external bacteria and Metronidazole for any internal bacterial problems. I would not feed until the fish is cured.-Chuck>

Red Devil Doing Better
Huuuggsss Chuck, Looks like he is going to make it!  He is up and swimming again.  :o) He has also eaten three times a day for the last two days.
< Keep in mind to only feed him once a day and only enough food so that all of it is gone in two minutes. Too much food can have him back on his side in no time at all.>
Thank you very much. I did not know of any of the tips you gave me, and I thank you for making it possible for me to help my fishy.
< That is what we are hear for.>
Those spots seem to be getting bigger.  There are two of them now both about an inch behind the front fins.  I don't know if they are bruising or what.  Do you have any suggestions? Should I treat for external problems?  I question further medication since he is doing so well now.
Jess
< Those red spots may just be a normal coloration change. Red Devils come in multiple colors and red is just one of them. Look at the spots closely. If there is a change in texture between the red spots and the rest of the body then I would treat with Nitrofuranace. If the texture of the skin appears similar then it just may be a normal color change. Glad to hear he is doing better.-Chuck>

Red Devil, Viral Infection - 08/17/2005
Hello,
<Hi.>
I just bought a Red Devil, and he seems to have this white cyst (Like a pimple) on one of his scales.  He is bright orange in colour, and this white cyst stands out.  It's not ich, since it's only one, and bigger than ich.  How do I treat it? Does it go away? The previous owner said that its been there for approximately 1 month now.
<Sounds like Lymphocystis....  A viral infection.  Though this is not treatable, it usually does go away if the fish is kept in optimal water conditions (ammonia, nitrite = ZERO, nitrate = LESS than 20ppm).  So be testing, and keep that water clean!>
Thank you,  Toufic
<Wishing you and your new red devil well,  -Sabrina>
Red Devil, Viral Infection - II - 08/17/2005
Optimal eh? :-(
<Should be no more difficult than maintaining the tank properly....  That's the least we can do for our captive fishes.>
How about surgery on the actual cyst?
<This will cause more harm than good, most likely.  I would leave it as is, and let the fish heal on its own time.  Proper care, proper water quality alone will help this to go away.>
Extra salts in the tank?
<Nope.  Patience, much patience, and proper care.  That's all.  This will take time....  but can/should heal up on its own.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Red Devils Dying
We recently set up a 55 gallon fresh water fish tank (this past Christmas) and after getting all the appropriate bacteria and everything set up we bought two red devils and a third longer sword fish type thing. It turns out one red devil was a male and the other was a female. A month ago they had 400 babies but a day or two after they were born the mom died (the dad had been 'abusing' her for a few days). The babies continued to grow and the dad then began the same abusive behavior towards the sword looking fish, and he died a few days later. Now the babies are about a cm big each and the dad himself is beginning to show signs similar to the other fish before they died. He has not eaten in these past three days and is sitting on the bottom occasionally slightly tilted. We have had the water tested after each fish has died and a few times in between and nothing has been the problem. The babies seem to be nibbling at something on the dads fins. It looks like he has small whitish dots near and on the fin joints and he also has some blackish/greyish spots on his forehead. Is there anything we can do? Is there a reason why in these past three weeks all three fish have been dying?  Any help would be great!  I'd hate to lose another fish.  Thank you.
<I would have liked to know the actual results of the water tests. With the sudden increase in waste caused by 400 fry I would think ammonia or nitrite would spike. You also mention some white spots. That could be Ick. Either could be the cause. I would start with large water changes and watch for an increase in those white spots. Many treatments for Ick. I use salt and heat. Read here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32 Don>

Treating An Old (and He Means OLD!) red Devil With Hole-In-The-Head 11/16/05
Hello, I have a 17 year old Red Devil Cichlid (Fred) who was in the peak of health until I stupidly (over) adjusted the pH a month ago, and he took quite a roller coaster ride before I was able to stabilize things. Unfortunately, even after I got the water back to acceptable levels, he would still not eat (he had stopped eating when all the water troubles began). It was suggested that I put feeder fish in with him to stimulate his appetite, but the feeder goldfish was in there 5 days and nothing happened. I was thinking that Fred (the Cichlid) might just be going crazy in the confines of his 40 gallon tank, so I got a 100 gallon tank for him and started it cycling. The other day I noticed that Fred had a couple lesions on his head. I'm afraid he has Hole in The Head disease, especially because he exhibits some of the symptoms associated with HITH disease:
*A tendency to 'hang' in corners.
*A tendency to stare at food but without eating it, or if it does take a sample it immediately spits it out again.
*The decline in food acceptance, is often accompanied or followed by lethargy, and a reduction in muscle tissue which gives the fish a 'pinched' appearance behind the head and the skin 'texture' may take on a roughened appearance
*White, jelly like excreta can often be seen trailing from the anal vent, on the floor of bare bottom aquaria, or sometimes white, stingy 'rotted plant-like material' is 'adrift' in the aquarium.
*The wasted fish may develop a bloated stomach region.
*Skin lesions may start to appear, especially on the body and the head, in the region of the lateralis system - these holes may eventually expand and connect to from considerable size 'craters'
The only symptom here that Fred didn't exhibit was the 'jelly like excreta'. Thing is, this could also be Head and Lateral Line Erosion - HLLE, or both together, couldn't it?
< They are often associated with one another.>
I took the carbon out of his canister filter, gradually raised his water temp to 84 degrees F, did a 30% water change, and added 250mg of Metronidazole for each 10 gallons in his 40 gallon tank. About 12 hours later I did another 25% water change and gave him another dose of Metronidazole.
I intend to do this for 3 days, based on articles I have read on the subject. Most of the fish store "Experts" that I have spoken to have rather heartlessly told me to give up all hope since he's so old. That is a little defeatist for me, thank you. If it's Fred's time to go, then so be it. Until then, I intend to give him a fighting chance. Period. As it is, he seems to be less 'sulky' than before, but on day 2 of the Metronidazole treatment, he is still not eating.
Of most concern to me other than the not eating is that his stomach is distended only on the left hand side, and his tail tends to curve around to his left. I know that the Protozoan Parasites responsible for Hexamita (HITH disease) naturally occur in the fish's stomach, and just get out of hand when the fish gets stressed, as Fred was recently. It's just got me worried that it's only on one side, which he seems to be favoring, almost like it's a tumor. I know one of the symptoms of HITH is swelling of the stomach, but just on one side?
<It depends where the infection has manifested itself.>
And does it sound like I'm taking a reasonable course of action here?
< Metronidazole breaks down very easily in dirty water. I would vacuum the gravel and clean the filter and medicate with Nitrofurazone as well.>
I would hate to make any more big mistakes that might end up doing Fred in at this point! Speaking of mistakes, I made a big one when I removed the activated carbon from the canister filter. I squeezed out the sponge and washed out all the good goop that was in the canister, thereby destroying the biological filter. The gravel bed in the aquarium is still undisturbed, so I haven't killed the biological filter completely, but I know I screwed up. I have been adding AmQuel with the water changes, so that helps. Would it get in the way of the Metronidazole treatments to add Bio Spira, in order to get the biological filter back on track?
< The Nitrofuranace will definitely affect the biological filter. Your fish is not eating anyway so discontinue to feed until a cure is achieved. When a cure is achieved then add carbon to remove any medication and then add the Bio-Spira to the water to get the tank cycled again.>
And can I add NovAqua to ease Fred's stress a little?
< Follow the directions on the bottle.>
Oh, and I've read that feeder fish can infect a Cichlid with HITH. They get it through the feces of the feeder fish. Is this plausible?
< Feeder fish can introduce many parasites but this is not one of them.>
It occurred to me that he may have gotten it from the feeder fish I put in with him. There are 5 feeder fish in the 100 gallon tank that is now cycled and ready for Freddy when he gets out of hospital. I was planning on putting the feeder fish into the 40 gallon tank when I put Fred into the 100 gallon tank, but I would hate for Fred to get infected all over again when I put him into the 100 gallon tank that the feeder fish just left (infected from the feeder fish waste still in the tank). Would you share your thoughts on these things?
< The feeder fish are not the immediate problem right now. Go to Cichlid-Forum.com and search the data base for a rather lengthy article on hole in the head. This will give you some insight on how hard this is to cure.-Chuck>
Thank you for your help on this! Chris Haller
pH: 7.8; Nitrite: 0; Ammonia: (I don't know because the AmQuel messes up the Nessler's reagent); Nitrate: negligible; General Hardness: 140 ppm; Carbonate Hardness: 5 German degrees

Old Red Devil Cichlid Losing His Eyesight 9/27/05
I am hoping you can help me. About a year ago I started noticing a white film on the right eye of my 7.5 year old Red Devil Cichlid. I treated it with various medications and remedies. These included Melafix and antibiotics that covered gram positive and gram negative bacteria. I put in appropriate amounts of aquarium salt. Water changes were done regularly and tests showed good range for Ph and nitrates. Unfortunately, none of this worked and my fish eventually lost site in the eye and the cloud remains to this day. Tonight I noticed what appears to be the beginning of the same process in his left eye. This time he also appears to have a bit of a bloody looking discharge in the eye. I am at a loss as to how to proceed to treat this. Water tests are fine and I do regular changes. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Eric
< Usually these eye problems come from rough handling in a coarse net. Do a 30% water change , vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. Treat with erythromycin. If the water is clean the medication has worked well for me in the past. You devil is getting up there in age so it may take a couple doses to work.-Chuck>

Red Devil Swimming On His Side   1/30/06
Have my son's red devil still here and has been doing well.
The last few days he has been swimming on his side and has lost a bit of condition. Seems to flop on his side when he is not moving rapidly. There are no marks on him and he is still eating well (both live and cichlid pellets). He is now about 10 inches long and son has had he since really small. Please help as I really don't want to lose him. Thanks Sue
< When I hear of problems like these I think of internal bacterial infections. Sometimes food gets stuck in the intestines and the bacteria continue to reproduce causing gas and bloating. This sets off the equilibrium and causes fish to swim on their side, upside down etc... Do a 30 % water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. Treat with Metronidazole as per the directions on the package. It may stop the infection but the fish may not completely recover and be back to his old self.-Chuck>

Sick Old Red Devil   1/21/06
Hi-My 12 yr old red devil lives in a 120 gallon tank with some gravel, a few rocks and his baked ceramic plant pot. He gets fed jumbo min and some brine shrimp. For the past 2 weeks he has been very sick -laying down in his plant pot like a dog to rest and then getting up to patrol his tank when I come near. He won't eat. He swims sideways sometimes. I have siphoned the gravel and changed 25% of the tank water on 4 separate occasions (giving him a few days between each time). The ammonia level and the nitrite level test normal. The nitrate level tests high. I keep the pH at 7 although it keeps tending bluer - higher, which is the opposite of what it usually does. I keep the temp at 80 degrees.  I have put kosher salt in the water. He is typically somewhat orange, but when he got sick he got quite pale. Now his color is more orange again. I read in your column about using Furanace or Metronidazole... is either one appropriate? Do you have any advice or suggestions? Thank you for your help-Julie
< At 12 years old your red devil  may be getting near the end and no longer can fight off infections. I would do a 50% water change, vacuum the gravel and clean the filter. If he is not eating then don't feed him. Sounds like an internal bacterial infection. Treating him in a big tank will be very expensive, especially if multiple treatments are needed. If you can, move him to a smaller hospital tank. Treat him with Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace. High nitrate levels over a long period may have stressed him to the point of becoming ill.-Chuck>

Red Devil, Injury?  Disease? - 06/06/2006
Good afternoon,
<Hello!>
I have a Red Devil that is approx. 2 ½ years old and approx. 8” long.  We recently went on vacation and had another fish friendly person take care of our tanks.  Upon our return Pete (the fish) had developed a sort of blister on the top of his hump and on the lower section.  He is in a 55 gallon tank with only a plecostomus with him. I am leaning towards the possibility of HITH but am not 100% sure. I have attached three pictures for your reference.
<The images are a little small to tell, but I actually wonder if this might be an injury of some sort, if perhaps he got spooked and ran into something.  For now, I would keep a VERY close eye on it.  Maintain ammonia and nitrite at ZERO, nitrate at less than 20ppm.  If the wound appears to increase in size or shows any other sign of getting worse, I would suggest treating with a broad-spectrum antibiotic like Kanamycin or Nitrofurazone.  I would lean more toward this actually being a wound than HLLE or Hole-In-The-Head, given the speed at which it developed.>
Thank you in advance for your assistance.  Regards,  -Rebecca J. DeWitt
<All the best to you,  -Sabrina>

Sick Red Devil 8/19/06
Hi.
<<Hello, Alex. Tom here.>>
I'm in a bit of a panic right now, I think my Red Devil is dying.
The Problem: red devil's got some fungus thing (it's semi translucent and white and is mainly around his gills now) he's having trouble breathing and
his swim bladder is all outta whack, he really struggles to swim and stay balanced, right now he's at bottom of tank not moving much.
<<Not fungus, Alex. It's Columnaris, which is a bacterial disease. The fact that it doesn't appear to be contained as an external infection at this time (re: the swim bladder issue) leads me to believe the disease is advanced in your Cichlid.>>
The Tank: Its a freshwater tank, 90L I think. Inhabitants are one red devil (about 1yr old), eel-tail catfish, 2 clown loaches and a bristle-nosed catfish.
<<A 90-liter tank is too small for these fish, Alex. Please, do consider upgrading soon. Could/probably is leading to poor water conditions.>>
Don't know pH, nitrates etc, temp. is about 26 degrees Celsius.
<<Secondary point here, Alex, but you've got to get yourself a test kit for water parameters. Columnaris, for one, will never stop being a problem until you get the tank's conditions squared away, i.e. pH stable, ammonia/nitrites 0 and nitrates below 20.>>
I've turned light off to keep him out of shock but I think he's fading away.
I'm trying to keep tank warm with heaters and I did a 25% water change yesterday and cleaned my filters (one's submerged, the other isn't) and I've
treated tank with anti-fungal stuff and also swabbed the red devil's afflicted areas with a cotton wool bud dipped in the anti-fungal stuff (to little avail so far).
<<First, warmer temperatures will accelerate the spread of Columnaris. (One of those situations where it's a "good idea" in the wrong application.) Better to keep the tank at around 23-24 degrees C (75-76 F). Second, you need to treat with a broad-spectrum antibiotic like Kanacyn, Spectrogram, Tetracycline or Furan 2. Ideally,
you'd be able to treat with food containing Nitrofurazone or Oxytetracycline but I'm suspicious that your pet is eating little, if anything, at this point making this a doubtful way to go. Finally, while always best to treat an animal in a separate hospital tank, Columnaris is highly contagious - as you've seen - and I would recommend treating the entire display tank in this case. (Catfish are highly susceptible, by the way.)>>
I should also mention that I've had two catfish die after coming down with this fungus so I'm really worried.
<<Sorry to hear this, Alex, but, again, not a total surprise given what you're dealing with.>>
Help?! What should I do?
<<Immediate action? Another 25%-30% water change and gravel cleaning. Start treating with one of the medications recommended. Also, remove any carbon you might be using in your filters. Keep the water temperature in the range mentioned above and, by all means, get your hands on a water test kit so that you can monitor your parameters. You're "flying blind" without knowing what's going on in your tank. If the Red Devil succumbs to this, remove it immediately.
Less immediate but no less important, try to upgrade the size of your tank once everything is settled down. Your Red Devil may not have displayed aggressive behavior in the past but this fish has been known to wipe out entire tanks single-handedly. Very best of luck, Alex. Tom>>

Red Devil Cichlid With Internal Infection 1/2/07
Hello I have a Red devil cichlid that I got that has swim bladder for the purpose of trying to save him. The pet store gave him to me free because someone brought him in. He is a nice looking fish and is about 6inches and I have put him in a hospital tank and then added Epson salt raised the temp to 84F and treating the water with poly guard as well as trying to feed the fish with Metronidazole and garlic guard mixed in with some food as well as some green peas and doing daily 20% water changes and carefully replacing the salt and poly guard. But the problem is that the fish stays on the bottom of the tank and cannot swim but only scoot's around on the bottom of the tank on his belly. He sometimes will go over to the food that I place in the tank but can't get the food in his mouth because he can't seem to raise up to pick the food up from the bottom of the tank. He often lays on his side until he see's me in the room then he sits back up on his belly. I noticed as well that yesterday and today that there was some blood in his stool. I have been treating him for about three day's now. Do you know anything else that I can do to get this fish better and how long do you think it will take before he gets better? Thank you for any help.
<Remove any sand or gravel that can be abrasive to the skin of the fish. The infection has affected the swim bladder. Even if you cure the disease the swim bladder may not recover and become functional again. I would add Nitrofuranace to the mix and continue to treat for another week. These medications are not cheap. You probably could have purchased a healthy red devil for the money you will spend trying to save this one.-Chuck>

FH, big red bump, no useful data 6/4/07
Here is a picture of my Flowerhorn it is aprox 6 years old what is this red bump?
Jim
<Maybe a tumorous growth, but looks more like a trauma injury... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/flowerhorns.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Sick Red Devil - Please Help FAST!!! 12/31/07
I have a Red Devil (roughly 11 inches in size) I have had this fish for about 5 years - I have grown VERY attached and am very worried about losing my fish.
I have not kept good records/updates on the water quality - as my fish has tolerated the water without problems. Now "Syd" is losing color (turning very pale) - has stopped eating - and both eyes have grown VERY cloudy VERY quickly -
<QUICK! Change some of the water out here, or even better, move this fish to another system that is established>
*There have been many times that Syd has ignored food and gone a few days or more where the food has been played with but not eaten. ( I usually feed a veg. pellet mix in the mornings and an earthworm in the evening...again, has worked until now).
Syd is now lying on the bottom horizontal and not breathing very good...this began in the corner in somewhat of a vertical position. I have changed the filters as well as a water change (approx. 40%)
<Good>
We have recently had power surges (due to weather) and I noticed that the tank is very cold (not what Syd thrives in) I am trying to warm the tank but not too quickly...
<Also good>
I am afraid that there is something internal (besides the tank temp. and the "not eating" etc.)
<Not eating is not a big worry. A fish of this size, age, conditioning can go w/o food for many days>
My question - is where to start?
<Monitor water quality, raise temp.>
The fins seem to look fine...Although Syd has had some holes it doesn't seem to be HITH - but I could be wrong.
<Could you send a picture?>
If I should medicate the tank - please suggest a general beginning point/medication that I should start with to help my fish... Again, I know I seem to sound like a "slacker" on the daily maintenance of the fish tank - I do care for my fish and DO NOT wish to see Syd suffer...or die.
Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance,
EN
<Need more data, an image... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwlvstkind2.htm
re the sorts of input we're looking for... the third tray down, on Cichlids; their Health, Systems.
Bob Fenner>

Please help me!
Flowerhorn With Possible Blindness 6/1/08
Hi Crew, I have some problems to discuss with you.
Last week, I got a male Flowerhorn as a present from my friend including all his accessories. First 2-3days he didn't eat anything and he didn't go anywhere but I can accept that as water changes. Then he continuously keeps silent but sometime he tries to swim. He's
timing is not more than 5sec. then falling freely underneath the water and hit with glass. Mostly, he hit all the objects on his ways likes he didn't harm and seems he can't see anything. Last night, I realized that, it may be his problem, both of his eyes have some black shape, I attach his photos. His left eye is full with dark and the other is half. I haven't seen like that before in my experience because I have others 5 Flower Horns at my home. What should I do? Is he blinded? Is anything wrong? ? ? ? ?
Please reply me as I feel sorry for him. Best regards, KMMK
< After looking at your photos I don't know if your Flowerhorn is blind or not. I have never seen that kind of coloration in a fish's eyes before. Generally it sounds like you Flowerhorn has an internal bacterial infection that has affected his swim bladder. I would recommend treating the tank with a combination of Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace. I would also add a teaspoon of salt to the water for every 10 gallons of tank water. Keep the water temp up at 80 F too.-Chuck>

sick red devil 4/26/08
my red devil after a water change started swimming on it's side
<How much water changed? How treated? Best to store... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/taptrtmnt.htm and the linked files above>
and lay on the bottom then the next day started swimming upside down now he's hiding in the cave in the tank still swimming upside down i don't see no fungus or parasites is there anything you can do he's a ?young fish only about 4 inches long i have been treating for two days now with tetracycline but have not seen a change in him
thanks ron
<Poisoned... Please, fix your English before sending it (at least to us). Ignorance is not what we're about. Bob Fenner>

Red Devil Has Not Eaten in 1 Week! 07/07/08
Red Devil On Hunger Strike
Hi! and Help! I recently acquired a Red Devil (? He has no nuchal hump) in a tank purported to be 75 gallons but only 48. Charlie is 10 inches long. I placed him by a sliding glass door by the dining table. He can see people in the kitchen. He can see people and critters at the dining table. He can see people and critters in both the front and back living rooms. He can see out the window when I draw the blinds and he can see out the back porch onto the back yard a bit also. He did very little typical behaviors his first 3 weeks here, seemed to smile a lot and was not shy with us. Then I finally got around to cleaning his tank. Prior to this I only had a small goldfish tank and still only have that antiquated siphon method. Charlie's' tank was quite dirty as I did receive it dirty as well. (Most of the water was removed for the move and I had to fill it with a hose while he was in another tank). My way of cleaning the tank means that I have to
wait for the dirty water to settle down and then pour water from the top of the buckets back into the tank. (I only just learned that they need a 50% water change every week so I was doing the 25% goldfish rule.) So the cleaning occurred all day on Friday the 25th of June. As of Friday July 4th he has still eaten nothing. Since the cleaning he acts as if he has been violated. He no longer wants anything to do with us and he cleaned a spot to the mirrored floor of his tank and spends days just looking at his own image. He often ignores us when we talk to him and try to visit. We have tried to feed him and he has let the food rot. Last night I cooked chicken for the soft-shell turtles and gave Charlie a piece because I had read that they like it. This morning I fished it out untouched. Today I tested his water which was all fine except for slightly high nitrates - I put some chemical in and gave him a Rosie red minnow. He came a
little alive and the poor tortured thing was eventually murdered but he did not eat it. The carcass is laying on the floor of the tank right where we can all see it and Charlie has eaten nothing. How long can this go on? This fish is starting to torture me because I feel so guilty for him and I am soon to purchase a more efficient cleaning machine to avoid this in the future. I have read that a fish cannot go more than 5 days without food. This has been 7. If Charlie refuses to eat something how soon should I remove it from the aquarium? What am I to do to make him happy again? I am not skilled with cichlid disease. Is there a disease that I should be looking for?
< Start by checking the water temperature. It should be between 75 and 80 F. Get a thermometer and get a heater if needed. Next check the water chemistry. The ammonia and nitrites should be zero. The nitrates should be under 20 ppm. Big cichlids can be pretty messy so you should have a power filter that turns the water over at least 200 gph. An outside power filter would be best. Assuming everything else is fine then offer him a few high quality cichlids pellets once ech day at the same time. After five minutes remove any uneaten food. Repeat every day until he eats. If he doesn't eat after a week then try some washed earthworms. Feeder fish are notorious for contaminating big cichlid tanks with diseases.-Chuck>

Re: Red Devil Has Not Eaten In A Week II – 07/08/08
Yes there is a lot more but I went to a store called "Ocean Floor" in central Phoenix and got some better bacteria than these chain stores sell.
< Many stores sell bacterial additives that claim to add the beneficial bacteria to a tank so you can put fish in right away. The one I recommended for years was Bio-Spira by Marineland. The item is no longer available. A new product by Dr Tim called "The One and Only" is working very well for a friend on mine who has a aquarium maintenance business and sets up tanks all the time. This product is available from DrsFosterSmith.com.>
I also bought a new Fluval 450 and a bunch of other stuff. Placing him in the window was a mistake and the heat is spiking the ammonia and nitrates.
< Heat by itself won't increase the ammonia and nitrates. Elevated water temperatures may have increased the breakdown of the fish waste.> Plus all the water changes were misadvised. We put a huge board outside the window for now because the store guy thinks he is too fragile to move the tank right now. So both my tanks are blooming right now with the good bacteria and the fish are starting to do a bit better. The company that makes these products is right here in Phoenix. It is called Tropical Science and the bacteria have to be kept in the fridge. These chain stores have inferior product and they think they have bacteria and the products even say so on the label but absolutely nothing happens. I was stuck in a position that I did not have time to cycle tanks properly. (What
happens when you buy used tanks with fish in them.) I do need to learn how to do it properly since I need to get larger tanks for the cichlid and the spiny softshells.
I had a product with live bacteria for many years. The bottle did not need refrigeration. Whenever my tank was in trouble I would throw a couple of drops in and get instant results. I have always kept my goldfish in windows and done great. When I finished the bottle I remember thinking to myself that I ought to save the empty bottle so I would know what to ask for. I threw it out. None of the stores have it anymore. It was fantastic stuff.
I didn't even mention about Charlie being in the hot window when I first wrote because I did not know it was a problem. The city tap water is too high in nitrates and ammonia already. I had read to find another water source but had always learned that purified drinking water would kill the fish. The guy at the store said I could use purified drinking water but I am still leery. We get OPremium water and I don't know if I could use that or not. I need more feedback on alternate water sources. I would really appreciate if one of you could look at this OPremium water site and tell me if the water is safe for the fish. My first instinct is no - but maybe I am wrong.
Please advise:
http://www.owaters.com/10-step-purification.html
Or do you have suggestions for other water sources?
Thanks for asking Bob. <<Welcome. B>> And thanks for your initial response Chuck.
< If your water is too high in nitrates you could always use R/O or distilled water. This water by itself is not good for fish because it is too clean and has no buffers in it. You have to add some buffers to keep the pH from going all over the place and stressing your fish. The R/o will reduce most of the nitrates. You could by an r/o unit for a couple hundred bucks and could filter water up to 50 gallons per day.-Chuck>

Red Devils Have Not Eaten IN One Week III 7/10/08
< First off. Stop injecting additional questions/comments within the text of formally answered questions. The crew usually injects their comments in response to multipart questions to try and not confuse the readers. When you add the additional comments it makes it very difficult to sort out if the questions have been answered or not. In the future please ask questions that you need help with.>
OK. I do not know what R/O is so hopefully can Google.
< Go to the WWM and Google R/O. This has been asked many times before.>
This is getting insanely expensive and I don't think my husband will go for an R/O unit at this point. Also I don't know what "buffers" are.
< Once again Google the WWM website for buffers.>
I saw some pH stabilizing product somewhere - not sure if Dr Foster Smith or Austin's Turtle Page.
< DrsFosterSmith definitely have buffers for R/PO units.>
I am super frustrated right now because these Ocean Floor employees don't really know either and the guy we bought from is off work till Thursday and there is a lot of stuff he didn't tell us.
< Unfortunately the retail tropical fish store employee typically doesn't have much more experience than the customers they are trying to help. The job usually doesn't pay that well so turn over is very high.>
The Tropical Science product (Aqua Chargers) has no directions on the label - just lists of other product. So my idea is that they think they have designed the most fantastic surface for bacteria but it is the liquid in the container that has the bacteria? (The employees cannot even answer that - probably because they do not want to admit that I was stupid enough to pay $160 for a bottle of plastic doo-dads.)
< In the past I have not been impressed with this brand of products.>
Because I saw other plastic thingies on Dr Smith Foster for a hell of a lot less money.
< Online retail stores are definitely very competitive with traditional retail stores.>
My two tanks are acting very different with it and I told the employee about the water change and chemical soup added over the weekend with the AP products and this Tropical Science has been added on top of it. It does not seem to me to be very scientific when everything is so nebulous and proper written directions are not given. I called back the store and asked why one tank is super cloudy and the other one is clear. The employee told me to do a 25% water change. I said "WHAT!?!?! I just spent $160 (plus tax) on this stuff (never mind the hundreds of dollars of other product I purchased along with) and 24 hours later you are telling me to pour it down the drain?!?!?!?!" I called and asked to talk to the manager and she put a guy on who speaks hardly any English and he could not tell me anything concrete either or even speculate with knowledge - he told me not to feed any of my fish for 3 or 4 days till it clears up. I haven't even tested my water because I am getting too emotional about this now. All I can say is my 10 inch Red Devil is miserable in his cloudy tank and my 10 inch goldfish is miserable in his alternately cloudy and clear tank. I tried to ask about the life cycle of this bacteria I have added and of course no-one knows a thing. The rapid changes of cloudy and clear repeatedly over the course of the day means something and I would like to know what. But Charlie's tank is just deathly cloudy. Interesting to me is that the other fish in the goldfish tank are OK for the most part. I have small feeder goldfish, Rosie minnows and of course plecostomus. When the 2nd Fluval started up in their tank it emitted a huge white cloud - I assume from the aqua chargers that had been sitting in there while I was doing battle with the hoses. It was frightening to watch that cloud go into the tank and the little fish got all jerky for hours afterwards. They moved a lot but very jerky also. What does that mean? The Ocean Floor employees cannot tell me. Sorry for this long run-on line - I am very low-tech and do not know why this happens once in a blue moon. Thank you for the continued correspondence. I had been told years ago never to use distilled so I would need to know a lot more about what buffers are and how to use. Where can I learn?
< Once again buffers and R/O water is well covered on the website. I would recommend trying to contact the manufacturers by either email or by trying to call them directly. Search for a web for a contact info.-Chuck>

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