Anthiinae Placement/Chaetomorpha Growth – 02/08/08
Hey crew,
<<Hello>>
This is my first time writing, though I've been visiting your web site for almost a year now.
<<Welcome then… How may I assist?>>
Because of WWM and very a helpful LFS (ALL ABOUT FISH in Concord, CA) my 125g long is a thriving soft/LPSs reef.
<<Ah, very nice to know>>
My current stock:
1- 6" Blonde Naso
1- 5" Emperor Angel
<<Do be aware, this tank is not large enough for the above mentioned fishes for the long-term. As these grow they will need twice this volume to preclude developmental/behavioral/health issues>>
1-2.5" Purple Firefish
1 large Colt Coral
1 med Frogspawn
Misc. mushrooms, hermit crabs, snails, etc...
I have a 40g ‘fuge (Chaetomorpha)
<<Excellent>>
Euro-reef RS100 skimmer
<<I do like this brand of skimmer… I have an (old?) CS12-3 that a couple of the Sedra pumps just died on. I replaced all with a trio of the ER-modded Eheim 1262 pumps and WOW…falling in love with this skimmer all over again! …but enough about me [sheepish-grin]>>
There are no water quality issues; I do 20g weekly water changes, sometimes more.
<<This “is” about the single-best thing hobbyists can do for their systems>>
My Emperor and Naso are my "Pets" and will readily eat out of my hand.
<<Yes, can become quite “personable”>>
After several months of waiting, my LFS received 9 Bartlett’s Anthias (1 male, 8 female).
<<A very aquarium hardy species>>
Would this be too many?
<<Right now, no…but do keep in mind the future requirements of the tang and angel>>
How long to qt?
<<I don’t recommend quarantine for Anthiines…best to place directly in the display>>
I have a 29g FOWLR (6 months old or set up my 55g (would be bare) what would be the best protocol?
<<As stated>>
Also I have read/heard conflicting facts on the growth of Chaetomorpha algae. I have a very slow growth rate. I have 40 watts of PC lighting on a reverse cycle. PO4 is undetectable, NO3 10-15 (API and Red Sea test kits) any thoughts or suggestions?
<<A couple… Try boosting both light intensity (65w+) and spectral quality (5000K-6500K), and flow (add a small powerhead for circulation) to the refugium. Regards, EricR>>

Fairy Basslet in hiding  7/8/07
Hello WWM!
Long time reader, First time poster
<Welcome. We are strangers but once>
I have had 2 Bartlett's Anthias for 3 yrs now. The male appears in poor health.
<Mmmm... like most Anthiines, better to have in a larger number grouping... but this/these may well be reaching senescence... old age>
I have a 120 reef system with sump, skimmer, good flow produced by close loop with sequencing unit and chiller. I do bi monthly 20% water changes. Tankmates include a Majestic Angel,
<Mmm, this species needs more room than this... by about a minimum of twice>
2 Ocellaris, 3 Chromis, 2 Banggai Cardinals. I feed 2x a day every other day a mix of Mysis, Formula 2 frozen and Cyclop-eeze. (small amounts, slowly....a 6 yr. routine) I also add locally cultivated reef stew to my tank once a month.... yummy treats!
My problem is this, for the past 3 days the male Anthias has been hiding in rock crevices around the bottom of my tank.
<Perhaps age... maybe something to do with the other fish/es...>
The first day, he came out to eat. Yesterday he did not come out during feeding time; however, he did move about, but ate nothing ( I fed out of schedule to entice him out ). Today, he is MIA. I assume he is in the back rockwork not visible to me.
<Maybe>
I did notice that his color became more intense during this time. The pink hue almost a hot pink. I thought that perhaps his breathing was labored as well.
I did look closely at him and noticed NO evidence of injury or outward sign of bacterial infection.
I was hoping you would be able to shed some light on my experience.
Thank you for your dedication.
Kim
<Mmm, if there were room psycho- and physio-logically in this system, I'd suggest adding three or five more females of the species... As it is... just waiting. Bob Fenner>

Re: Fairy Basslet in hiding – 07/08/07
Thank you for your reply Bob,
<Welcome Kim>
The male Anthias has indeed found hiding in the back of the tank. I shooed him to a crevice in the front of my tank. If/when he dies, I would like to easily remove whatever portions my Jumbo Nassarius snails do not devour.
<Okay>
As he was swimming to the front, he wasn't really swimming, he was more like shimmying with his tail down and snout up. He is still fat as ever and his color is extremely intense, I would say at least 2x or even more....it's almost as if he's running a high fever 0_o
<Good desc.>
Regarding possible harassment between tank mates. I have a peaceful community for the time being.
<Ah, good>
I have often thought about trading to my LFS the well mannered (reef tank) Majestic that I have had for 5 yrs. (small for his maturity... maybe 6" in length),
<This is likely "it" size-wise here... Has been "bonsaied" by the size et al. restraints of this system>
I just don't know if he'll be placed in a better environment and this bothers me. I have arranged my tank in such a way as to provide the most possible lateral swimming area. I have taken much grief on forums for my approach as I use less LR than is popular today. I have 110lbs in my 120 AGA and 20 gal sump.
<I see>
Using island and arches to provide the hiding spaces needed; I like to keep my rock completely surrounded with brisk current keeping pores from clogging quickly, not to mention more surface area for the biological filtration process to take place.
<Well stated; and done>
Apologies for my long windedness.( I could have gone on and on :) )
Thank you for your time.
Kim
<And you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Anthias problems, incidental mortality  4/10/07
I have searched a great deal of information from your website with a lot of success. I am starting to run out of ideas for my current situation. Two months ago, I placed 19 disbar anthias in my 265g reef tank. I have two males and seventeen females.
<A good number, ratio...>
I placed seven anthias in the tank for one week, then added 12 more one week later. Two weeks ago, I found two dead anthias. The following week I noticed that one anthias started to die after another. I now only have 10 left. I  been feeding them Cyclop-Eeze, mysis shrimp, and flake food at least twice a day.
<Mmm, yes... best to have a thriving refugium, other means for providing food organisms almost constantly>
They all appear to be eating quite fine when I feed them. The other inhabitants in the tank are 6 blue/green chromis, green mandarin, and a purple fridmani. The other fish don't seem to bother the anthias at all. I have a 50g refugium and pumps that circulate 1200 gallons of water an hour. I have approximately 400lbs of live rock in the tank and three 175 watt metal halides for my various corals. The current temperature in the tank is 74.6, the alkalinity is 90, and the calcium level is 420. I really don't know what else to do. I would greatly appreciate any help that you can provide. Thank You.
<This reads like a/the not uncommon situation with this subfamily... "Something"... perhaps an internal parasite, starvation (previous to your acquisition), other challenge resulting in the inevitable loss of a number/all members of a group... Does happen, as stated, quite often... How to avoid? If there's facilities for holding a population before your transfer... to assure their health... At this point, bolstering food value by soaking in a vitamin/HUFA prep. (e.g. Zoe, MicroVit...) is a good idea... Bob Fenner>

5"  Bicolor Anthias in a 19 gallon QT   10/27/06
Hi Everyone!
First I just want to say how great your site is, I've been lurking for 4 months now and have learned a great deal from all of you!
My problem is I have a really big (5") Bicolor Anthias and 1 2" Flame Angel in a 10 gallon QT and the tank gets cloudy after just one day! I read that they need to be fed 2-3 times a day because of their metabolism and he is eating everything I give him and whatever he doesn't like the Angel is taking. How can I keep the tank clean?
<Mmm... I see your statement below re water changes... pretty much this/these and perhaps more bio. and mechanical filtration... Adding a hang-on open power filter>
Besides doing 30% water changes daily of course.
Second problem is that he is a very picky eater, so far he'll only eat brine or Mysis shrimp. I did all the testing this morning in tiny quantities to see what he likes. Flakes and pellets, he picks up but spits out right away. I tried 2 small chunks of frozen plankton (Hikari brand) spit that out too. I know brine and Mysis shrimp are not good staples but I don't know what else to try. Luckily the angel loves it all!
How long should I keep him in quarantine if he looks good?
Louise
<At least two weeks... unless circumstances, appearances indicate that otherwise the fishs health will be impugned. Bob Fenner>

Disease
Anthony,
<Steven Pro in this morning before running off to MACNA.>
I purchased some Bicolor Anthias from Marine Center, unfortunately since they claim to QT their livestock I added them directly to my main tank.
<They should have still been QT by you again. There is always the additional shipping trauma to get them through.>
The 3 that I purchased from them died within less then a week. Now the 2 that I have had for more the 8 months are looking bad.
<The first three that died could have had some initial conditions, but living eight months points to something going on in your tank.>
1 is in my QT tank, he has medium to large white spots where the color has faded, and is not moving much. The other went in the rocks and stills looks ok but isn't as active as it has been for the last few months. System water test ok:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
pH 8.2
Cal 425
KH 11
System temperature 79 degrees
<All seems well>
Any suggestion, yes I know that I should have QT the incoming fish but I always heard good thing about MC from your web site
<As have I, but like I mentioned above, being put in a little plastic bag and shipped across the country is stressful. QT gives then time to settle down, put on some weight, and show any signs of disease, before going into the display where they have to compete. Now to your problem, nothing jumps out at me. You have witnessed these guys eat, no one is picking on them, you have a refugium, and plenty of room for everyone?>
Thanks, Mark Johnson
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro>

Sudden Anthias Deaths
Hello,
<Good evening! Scott F. here tonight!>   
I haven't written you guys for quite some time, thought I had learned a lot and had things under control.  You guys helped me save my purple tang and maroon clown from a bad case of ich.  I just returned them a week ago to my main tank after two months of leaving it fallow and everything is wonderful in there, so I decided to purchase new fish.
<Glad to hear that!>
I bought a pair of lyretail Anthias last night. I put them in a freshwater ph adjusted , methyl blue dip, temp. 78 for 10 minutes which is what I had dipped my other fish for and I watched the Anthias the whole time for any signs of discomfort but they seemed fine for the entire dip.
<Great procedure>
Then I put them in my quarantine tank which I had tested and all levels were great.  Ammonia and Nitrite were zero, Ph 8.2, temp 78 and salinity 1.023.  Soon after I put them in the male kept floating a little to one side and then leveling himself out, then I came to look at him again and he was upside down, I thought that was a very bad sign, but then he righted himself again.  Anyway the point of the story is that today they are both dead and I thought I did everything right.  My question is did I leave them in the freshwater dip too long, or were they sick from the get go? The guy at my LFS said they were doing good at his store and were a healthy pair, they looked good to me as well, although they kept
hiding under the rocks at the LFS.  What did I do to kill these fish overnight, please if you have any idea, let me know so I don't do it again. Thank you, Kylee Peterson
< Well, Kylee- first of all- don't be too hard on yourself. Your procedure was excellent! Initial dips and quarantine are excellent ways to prevent a variety of problems. Please don't let this experience change your diligent efforts. The possibilities here are numerous. It's really hard to say exactly what caused their sudden death. Typically, sudden events like this are the result of some form of shock, brought on by environmental changes, disease, or even poisoning. Perhaps they fell victim to osmotic shock as a result of the dip...Sometimes, even the use of prophylactic medication, such as copper, malachite green, etc. can be toxic to these fishes. There is also the possibility that these specimens were stressed or in the process of contracting a disease before you even purchased them. The fact that they were hiding in the dealer's tank was a possible tip-off to some kind of condition. It was certainly not your fault that the fishes died. It was probably a combination of several factors, which combined to create this unfortunate result. Don't be afraid to try again with these fishes, but do select some individuals that are actively swimming about the tank. Perhaps that might give you the "edge" that you need to be successful with this fish. Good luck!>

Anthias In Trouble...
I recently purchased a pair of square Anthias from a trusted LFS (I say trusted because it is the only LFS that I have never had fish problems with).  Anyway, I have them both in a quarantine tank, but the male (about 3.5-4 inches) is not faring well.  Initially, he was not moving around very much, just remaining almost vertical near the side of the tank. Next he
began to break the surface gasping for air, and spitting water.  Too, I have noticed long strings of feces (sometimes brown, sometimes white) trailing off behind him.  These problems have since subsided.
<Possibly sign of an internal parasitic infection of some sort>
Now it appears as if he cannot right himself, sometimes sitting on the bottom, sometimes sideways, sometimes upside down.
Occasionally when upside down, he will catch himself as if surprised, and will swim normally back down to the bottom.
<Hmm.. that sounds like an equilibrium problem of some sort, possibly caused by improper decompression/collection procedures...>
I just noticed yesterday, that his right eye is swollen, and appears as if the bubble on the eye is full of water (as it glistens as if filled).
<Well, that could have been some sort of trauma to the eye caused by hitting his eyes on the tank walls or some other object.>
I have not seen the male eat, even when tempted (as suggested in
one of your threads) with live brine shrimp.  He is not at the top anymore, but just lying on the bottom, directly under the filter or next to an air stone, almost motionless, usually not upright.  His breathing appears a little shallow.  I do see him occasionally wave his fins about.  The little female appears perfectly healthy.
<Sounds like he really suffered during collection, and has had some possible medical challenges as a result>
In the quarantine tank are 1 sponge filter, and three airstones (pumps). All parameters are perfect.  I have been keeping the lights in the tank off.
<All sounds great>
Any suggestions?  I hate to see this fish suffer.  His mate tries to comfort him, but she gets no reaction from him.
Thank you.
<Well, as far as the swollen eye is concerned, you certainly can try Epsom salts in the tank to help draw down the swelling. On the other hand, it seems like the other possible problems that he is having are related to capture and collection. You will just have to keep up the TLC. Provide him with some more nutritious food options, such as Sweetwater plankton (a "fresh" product that comes packed in water in a jar. Good stuff!!! You can get it from Drs. Foster & Smith on line..). Keep your water conditions optimum, and the tank well-aerated...Don't quite on this guy...Good luck! Regards, Scott F> 

Cloudy Eyes?
Hi Guys
<Scott F. your guy tonight>
Done a search but after spending an hour looking couldn't find the right question/answer Had a kashiwae Anthias with cloudy eye - Popeye - no eye. Water conditions as good as they are gonna be.......no other fish with problems.
<okay...>
Now another of the same batch of Anthias has developed a similar problem. Is this parasitic ?? I was of the understanding that this wasn't a contagious problem..........or am I mistaken.
<Well, sometimes these types of problems are a result of water conditions. I know that you indicated that they were good, but perhaps this was a result of poor environmental conditions somewhere along the chain of custody from reef to store.>
Is this likely to have come in on the fish (if parasitic) and what can be done to treat.........tank is around 1000G full of corals/inverts/fish so no chemical treatment and no way can the fish come out.
<Well, this doesn't sound like a parasitic malady to me. Possibly you're seeing a bacterial infection of some sort. It may be possible to treat the affected fishes with antibiotic foods. Of course, I'd continue to maintain excellent water conditions, and quarantine all new arrivals for a minimum of 3 weeks.>
Would love to hear your thoughts. Any sites or links to research on this problem would be appreciated if you guys know any.
Regards, Steve.
<Well Steve, I'm not aware of any specific sites that specialize in disease, but you can peruse the WWM site, or do a key word search on one of the larger search engines under "fish diseases", and see what you can come up with. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Lyretail Anthias
Bob,
I spoke too soon! Approaching the 3 week mark in the quarantine process. The
male Lyretail Anthias has shown a 1/8" black spot on its right of the gill
cover close to the mouth. It almost looks like an ingrown hair. The spot
protrudes approximately 1/16". The Lyretail looks great and acts in a normal
mode.
Went to the LFS and was told to treat with Formalin for a day or so. Came
home and then went to your Wet Web Media. Now I'm confused. Should I try to
treat the quarantine tank with Formalin? The two females look fine. Or should
I do a quick freshwater dip with Formalin for approximately 10 minutes? I am
always open to recommendations. I was really hoping to place them in my
mini-reef, but now I am reluctant.
Thanks again for your help
<IMO, emphatically just the dip and formalin... the Anthiines don't do well, neither do quarantine systems treated with formalin/formaldehyde... likely to do more harm than good as anything other than a dip/bath... and very likely the "black hair thing" is no problem... Do get these fish into a larger system, feeding ASAP... two weeks should be long enough for this protocol/quarantine.
Bob Fenner>

Sick fish
Bob
My male Lyretail Anthias just showed up with a dark lump the size of a BB under his skin at the base of one of his fins. It is making the fin stick straight out affecting his swimming a little. He has seemed to have lost his appetite also. 
<Not good>
This is so strange he was doing great yesterday. He is in a reef tank so there is no way I can catch him. Any idea what this could be and any suggestions for treatment that will not hurt my corals? Can this spread to my other fish?
<Not likely catching... maybe an ulceration from a parasite (internal)...>
Thank you for you help
Jason
P.S. How do you get compensated for all this work. Is there some place I can send you some money for all your help?
<No my friend. Your participation, involvement, sharing here is more than enough. Bob Fenner>

Touchy fish acclimation and feeding
Howdy Bob!
<Howdy, Chief! Anthony Calfo in your service while Bob sits in a corner trying to crack brazil nuts open with his forehead>
Because of all your good counsel and website information, my
personal contacts are at least dwindling in their frequency.
Thanks again, and I hope you will help me with a two-part question.
< I shall do my best>
Because my local LFS is dealing with some water-quality issues,
and I still have a backlog of pre-paid fish coming in, I have
taken to having them notify me ahead of their arrival (via
air freight), and I go right down when they get them in, and
bring them home. Naturally, this isn't as nice as if they had
been living and eating there at the LFS for a period of time,
but it is my present reality.
<we do the best we can with what we can>
Anyway, I carefully follow your guerilla guide to acclimation of
my new arrivals, but it is my impression that by the time I remove
them from their "combo-freshwater-shipping-water-with-blue-green-
additives" mix, they appear more sluggish and 'wiped-out' than
the ones from the same batch who go through an 'LFS standard'
acclimation (of gradually adding tank water into their bags and
then releasing). Watching my fish in their cat-litter-box they
just seem to sit and sometimes their back end curls around a bit
towards the front. I don't want to stress them further, so
I don't poke & prod, and usually, after about 5 to 7 minutes, I
gently transfer them to my lights-out acclimation tank. Sometimes
they speed away when I put them in, sometimes they just seem to
barely sink to the bottom, and hang out.
<quite natural>
So, part 1 of my question is this: Is this normal for a fish going through this kind of dip / acclimation treatment, and (just for reassurance) is it still better because of the reduced risk of disease than just mixing waters and releasing?
<indeed...cannot mix waters>
Part 2. In last night's delivery, I received a male/female pair
of purple queen Anthias (they didn't have lyretail). I know they
are much more touchy fish, but they were beautiful looking
<Arrgghhh... not the best reason when unprepared>
and I had spoken to someone who had had three in a very small and
simple reef for a long while
<more than a year and still fat at that time?>
, so I decided to give it a shot. They are still sitting on the bottom of the acclimation tank, breathing OK, and watching with their eyes, but not real motivated to eat. I am going to try "first flake",
<I'll eat your hat if they eat flake for you.. hehe. Need meaty food...may even have to resort to live>
and Mysis shrimp, but wondered if you had any good ideas about how to tempt one of these pretties into eating?
<frozen mysids and Pacifica plankton are good whole foods in the long run...a good specialized homemade recipe like in Bob's CMA will be better. In the meantime, try gut loaded live guppies or ghost shrimp if the fish are large enough, or enriched live brine (Selcon) if still small>
Thank you so much for your help. Sincerely, Jim Raub
<keep us posted please. with kind regards, Anthony>

Truncate Anthias
Hi, me again.
<Cheers, Anthony Calfo in your service>
This time I have a question about an Anthias. His name is Felix and he's the coolest little orange fish you have ever seen, 
<I'll take your word on it although you really have no idea just how many spoonfuls of recreational drugs I've done and subsequently how many cool little orange fish I've seen. Of course, I suspect yours doesn't have hands with opposable thumbs...hehe>
but he's not feeling well.
<tell me about it, my friend>
About a month ago I did my water change and filter change and there after he's been hiding. The water was a little cold as I use purified sea water and it had been sitting by the door. I usually wait about a day after getting the water but I had accidentally drained the tank too much and had gone to get more water letting it sit for only about an hour. Anyway he's hiding, and this fish was king of his tank before!!! All the other fish, inverts, and coral are doing fine, no one else was affected. One thing I should add is when the water was tested last week (I do this on a weekly basis) the pH was low. After adding some buffer Felix seems to be more interested in the world outside his cave. He's even come out to perch on the rock in the light. I can see that he has lost no weight at all so I figured he eats off the water column behind the rock (I have a pair of
threadfin gobies that are doing the same thing). His color is still not
great but at least he's still alive!!! (I love this fish!) My question is should I find another Anthias or should I buy a royal Gramma and try to play on his aggression 
<another Anthiinae may be tolerable (females) but never play on their aggression. Our tanks are too small. Try different food too. With Anthiines you simply have to try Sweetwater zooplankton (keep refrigerated). It is incredible for Anthias species>
(My last one was kicked around the tank for several months before he was accepted!) (disappeared mysteriously after the addition of a new
powerhead?) I ask this because I cannot find another truncate Anthias, Felix was a mix up as he came in as a purple queen. I would hate to add another Anthias only to worry about it not having a proper buddy. 
<yes. please don't mix species>
I once tried to save a purple square Anthias from a LFS, and Felix loved him, when his attacks were ignored by the larger Anthias he decided this guy need love and attacked everybody else who got too close. Or do you think that I should try and see if I can't find another truncate? 
<try the food first and slightly warmer water...then maybe a buddy if you feel you must>
My main concern is to keep Felix alive and happy, and while he's alive, he's not happy. Thanks again Kim
<his behavior is not because of the single cool water event. That was coincidental. Some aspect of water chemistry (like pH which should be 8.3 to 8.6 daily) is the real culprit most likely. Best regards, Anthony>