Re: New stand setup – 03/22/09
Hey crew I contacted you guys last week concerning a 75 gallon glass tank set up on a metal stand. All your help and great advice has gotten me to the point where I am now and would like your opinion again if it's not too much trouble. Since my last email to you guys I went out and purchased a new iron stand which I noticed supported the tank in all four corners but the center pieces were not touching the trim on the stand.
<Mmm, with the tank filled?>
So I brought that stand back and replaced it for another one to my surprise that one had the same problem but it was a little less rather than return it I decided to work with it being this is the 3rd iron stand I had problems with I didn't want the store to think I was some kind of nut. So again I placed 3/4in plywood on top of the stand (I feel more comfortable this way) and I put the tank on top of it then I noticed that there was a small gap about an 8th of an inch between the tanks trim and wood. I was able to shim up the plywood with stainless steel strips to close the gap evenly to the bottom of the tank trim. The plastic trim around the bottom of the tank was pretty sung to the plywood I was not able to get my driver's license under it without forcing it. One or two spots were not as tight but it was still snug and the tank no longer was wobbly on the wood.
After checking everything in all directions with a level, measuring with a ruler and driving myself nuts with this for the past few days I decided to see what would happen if I put some water in it so I filled the tank up
just above the trim (on the bottom) and the little bit of weight that the water added seemed to even it all out I could no longer get my license under it anywhere even if I attempted to force it under I even used a piece of paper that is a little bit thinner and that did not fit. Should I continue to fill it up and make sure it stays level or is the solution I have come up with not good?
Thanks again you guys are a big help.
<I would fill this tank and try not to worry. Bob Fenner>

Re: New stand setup, level, what to use...    3/23/09
Hey Bob thanks for your reply.
<Hello Thomas; welcome>
To answer your question Bob. No the tank was not filled when the center braces of the stand were not touching the trim on the bottom of the tank and it was a pretty decent sized gap and I didn't think it would be safe to put any water in it at this point because I was unsure it if the tank need to be supported in that area and I was concerned that it might flex to the stand and cause stress on the glass or silicone. So I decided to play it safe and try to minimize the gap before adding weight to the tank.
<Sounds good>
According to the manufacture the most important thing is that the corners are supported do you guys agree with that?
<Yes; though, all the outer edge needs be supported to only a slightly lesser degree>
They gave me some advice before (regarding the tank being able to flex a certain amount) and when I
checked with you guys I realized that is was not good advice.
I know this sounds like a stupid question but maybe you can help me understand how the iron stand are designed to work because I can't understand why if the center braces were important they did don't put a
brace for support to keep them from bending and sagging or are those center braces just not that important?
<Seems to me that this is largely an instance of "social/industrial inertia"... That such stands have been produced as the one you have presently for so long... there's not been perception that such change is
warranted. I do want to make a comment re these stands though... I am not a fan, and the stores that I had a hand in putting up, managing, owning did not offer them... in S. Cal. the ground shakes too much, too often to give me enough sense of security that the tanks/stands wouldn't "go over" should there be a big lateral push>
I will try to get around to filling it up today and keep an eye on it to make sure it stays level.
Thank again Bob.
<Welcome again Thomas. BobF>

Tank on a stone countertop 1/13/09
I have an Oceanic 45 Gallon Tech series aquarium. It's tall for it's size, L 24.5 x W 18.5 x H 25, and constructed of very thick glass.
<These are nice tanks...they do actually have enough overflow throughputs too!>
It is heavy, without water. I don't much like the stand it comes with, which is made of MDF and is surprising unstable due to it's height and lack of cross-bracing. It's quite easy to get rocking forward/backwards, and it's ugly. I have recently had my kitchen countertop redone, and I made provisions for the aquarium to sit directly on a section of stone countertop. Now, right before I fill the tank, I'm having momentary second thoughts about it, and I would appreciate your thoughts and guidance.
<Sure.>
The aquarium is sitting directly on a 1" think slab of cultured stone. The cultured stone is for all intents and purposes perfectly flat and smooth. I can slide a piece of paper under the aquarium frame in a few spots, but not a business card. On the Oceanic stand I can easily slide a business card under in many places, so I figure that the countertop is a more true surface than the OEM stand.
<The tolerances on these engineered stones are very tight.>
I've had a frame of 2*6 lumber installed to support the section of stone that the aquarium in on, and I have no concern about the weight bearing capacity of the structure. The aquarium is on it's own piece of stone, so that if there's any slight deflection vs. the rest of the countertop it's free to move and thereby avoid any twisting load on the stone.
The counter is perfectly level to the standard of construction -- a high quality 24 inch quality carpenter's level shows the bubble dead center on in all orientations. However, there's nothing like a partially full aquarium to show the slightest off-level condition.
How far out of level across the 24 inch front of the tank would you suggest is tolerable? 1/16th of an inch? less/more?
<1/16 is livable, double this and you start to get into uncomfortable territory.>
Also, do you see any problem with the aquarium frame sitting directly on such a hard surface?
<Not one that is so planar.>
Any other concerns with this setup?
<No, I would give this project the green light. I have actually played the same scenario out quite a few times.>
Thanks for the great resource.
<Thank you!>
Matt
<Scott V.>

Support for 30 Gal Aquarium (RMF, agree/disagree?)  ~ 01/12/09
I current have a 29 gal tank (30" wide) on a sturdy dresser. I would like to get the extra width of a 30 gal (36" wide), but the top of the dresser is only 32 inches wide. I'm wondering if a 36" sheet of plywood under the tank would be enough support to safely deal with the two inches of overhang that would be on each side? If so, what thickness of plywood do you recommend?
thanks,
Herm
<Hello Herm. To be honest, I don't recommend tanks above 20 gallons be placed on any furniture not designed expressly for the purpose. When I was a teenager, I had a 30 gallon tank that was placed on an oak dresser, and everything seemed fine for months until one night the top finally warped enough that the glass base cracked, and of course all the water came pouring out. Putting the fish into the bathtub saved them, but it sure gave my dad a surprise when he came downstairs in the morning! One Imperial gallon weighs ten pounds, so a 30 gallon tank is going to weight 300 pounds (US gallons are a bit smaller and weigh a bit less, but not enough to make a difference). I surely doubt that any dresser is really designed to support that sort of weight permanently, and certainly not with much of a safety margin. Other folks may have other opinions, but me, I'd recommend against what you're doing. Cheers, Neale.>
<<Important to pay heed to what Neale states here... the "average" sort of weight per gallon... There is substantial furniture... that can/will take a good deal of weight... keep a system planar, level... but the majority of desks, tables are NOT strong enough IMO/E. RMF>>

Re: Support for 30 Gal Aquarium (RMF, agree/disagree?)  ~ 01/12/09
Hi Neal,
Thanks for taking time to offer your thoughts. I was concerned when I first put the 29 up there, but felt better after the first few days when nothing bad happened. I had no idea it might last for months before failing.
<Yes indeed. What I didn't mention in my anecdote was that I was asleep, and at first the sound of water merely changed my dream to one involving rain. And then as I slowly awoke, I thought the rain was outdoors. Only after a good few minutes, perhaps a quarter of an hour did my mind wake up enough to realise the "rain" wasn't imaginary and it wasn't outdoors: it was in my bedroom.>
On the one hand, the dresser in question seems quite sturdy and has a thick top, and I'm tempted to appreciatively ignore your warning. On the other hand, it would definitely suck to come home to a flood and pile of dead fish!
<The fish were fine because the leak was slow. What normally happens isn't an explosive disaster where the tank flies apart, but rather the support underneath the bottom pane of glass distorts with time. This gradually causes the weight of the water to fall against the silicone sealant in an uneven manner, essentially twisting the tank. Silicone is very weak against twisting forces, compared to its great strength against pulling forces.
Anyway, part of the silicone peels away, resulting in a leak. That's what has happened to me on two different occasions, one as described above, and the other when trying to move a tank while it still contained some water.
Ah well, we learn the hard way, and try to share our failings here at WWM so others are, at least, fore warned.>
You've at least convince me not to expand to a 30 gal, the extra length would probably stress things even further.
<Whilst I doubt one gallon won't make much difference, by the same token I don't think it's worth the risk either. If your system is stable and safe now, I'd tend to leave things be. At the same time, I'd keep a very close eye on the wood at the top of the dresser, in particular looking out for any signs of buckling or unevenness.>
I think I will get that sheet of 1/2 plywood to go under the 29 gal, and see about shoring up the back side of the dresser, which is totally open.
<Sounds wise.>
regards,
Herm
<Cheers, Neale.>

Stand Reinforcement (Conversion)…Going From Glass to Acrylic – 10/12/08
Sorry I forgot to put my name!! I'm Guillaume.
<<No worries Guillaume, but thank you…is always nice to know who we are “talking” to>>
And the title of my message was wrong: it should have been "stand" reinforcement, not tank.
<<Duly noted and corrected>>
Hi Everyone!
<<Greetings!>>
I really love your site: so informative!
<<We are happy you think so>>
However I didn't find a specific answer for my issue; perhaps you can help me.
<<I shall try>>
Just bought a used bow tank 46g with a basic stand in pine wood. I wanted to upgrade my 15 gal tank for my goldfish.
<<Very good...these fish really do require more space than most folks realize>>
Because I didn't realize it would be so big in my bedroom - and because I'm a bit nervous as some of the seam starts to peel off a bit (the tank is six years old)-
<<Mmm, yes…the seams “peeling” is not a worrisome sign. This tank may well be unsafe to use. At the least, I would fill this tank with water (outside the house) and let it stand for a few days to see what develops>>
I'd like to get an acrylic 36 gal aquarium instead.
<<A good idea I think>>
But I wanted to keep the stand (I repainted it).
<<Okay>>
Because the stand doesn't have any platform, (it's empty in the middle, a bit like a crown)
<<Yes, a typical “glass” tank stand supported around the perimeter of the tank>>
is it safe to put a board over it? And if so, what material should I use and what thickness?
<<Although this stand is not “made” for this tank, considering this volume of water, and as long as the stand is larger than the perimeter of the new 36g tank by no more than a couple inches on all sides then yes, you can make do with the existing stand. I recommend you use a DOUBLE layer of ¾” plywood cut to fit on top of the stand to support the new 36g acrylic tank. And though not a “necessity,” I also recommend a piece of ¼” Styrofoam atop that for some additional cushion>>
As the stand was originally built for a glass bow tank, I presume only the four corners are strong enough, right?
<<The stand itself is strong to support the weight of the smaller tank as long as the top you add is strong enough to support this weight>>
And should the board be attached or nailed to the frame? (I'm not an expert with tools!!)
Thanks!
Guillaume
<<Permanent attachment is not necessary…simply rest the plywood panels atop the stand and place/center the tank on top of these. The weight of the water will hold all in place. Regards, EricR>>

Re: Stand Reinforcement (Conversion)…Changing From Glass to Acrylic – 10/13/08
Thank you Eric R. for replying to my message!
<<Quite welcome Guillaume>>
Your expertise is really awesome and very much appreciated!
<<I’m happy to assist>>
Just one more question:
<<Okay>>
Instead of getting a Bow 36 gal acrylic, (which is 30''L x 15"W x 21''H), should I get a rectangular acrylic 30 gal that is 36'' L x 12"W x 18''H (since the stand was made for a bow 46 gal that was 36'' long)?
<<If this is more appealing to you then, sure>>
Would it be better for the stability or worse?
<<Shouldn’t make a difference in this situation>>
It seems the two lateral sides of the stand are really holding the weight...
<<The double layer of ¾” plywood we discussed will spread this burden over the entire structure…no worries>>
And is it better for goldfish to have a longer tank versus a higher one?
<<Maximizing surface area for gas exchange is desirous, yes…but the difference between these two tanks is nominal (assuming the 15” dimension on the bow tank is its “widest” point). I say choose whichever of these tanks is the most to your liking>>
Thanks again!
<<Welcome>>
(I'm so glad I found that site!)
<<We are too!>>
Guillaume
<<EricR>>

R2: Stand Reinforcement (Conversion)…Changing From Glass to Acrylic – 10/13/08 Thanks again EricR! <<Always welcome Guillaume>> The 36 Bow Tank looks obviously nicer... <<Okay>> My only concern is that the double layer of plywood (I only found double 1") <<For safety sake I need you to be more detailed/specific here…what do you mean by this exactly? Are you are using two layers of 1” plywood? Or are you using two layers of ½” plywood? If it is the latter…this can work as long as you bond (glue) the two sheets to make them as one (doing so increases the strength of the stacked panels). actually only touches the two lateral sides. <<This will not do Guillaume…the plywood needs to be supported around its entire perimeter>> There is a small space all around. (the plywood doesn't touch the front "bow" part of the wood frame, nor the back side.) It still feels very stable. <<Perhaps I did not explain in enough detail before… The plywood sheets need to be large enough to completely cover and rest atop all four sides of the stand else the plywood will bow under the weight of the filled aquarium. If space is not an issue, you can cut the plywood (or have it cut) to the width of the widest part of the stand without having to follow the “bow”>> But should I compensate with Styrofoam all around? <<Not a necessity as stated, but it will provide some cushion to the bottom of the tank and will allow for “very slight” variations in the surface of the plywood>> (sorry for all these questions! just want to be sure!) Guillaume <<No worries…I want you to be sure too! Eric Russell>> R3: Stand Reinforcement (Conversion)…Changing From Glass to Acrylic – 10/14/08 I'm sorry Eric for the confusion. My English is not always good! <<No worries my friend... Your English is actually quite good…I just want to be sure I understand what you are doing to ensure my advice is accurate>> Let me explain with more details (I also took pictures): <<Excellent>> I found two 1'' plywood boards (1" each) that I placed on top of each other (together they are 2") covering my stand. (pics 1 and 2) <<I see these… If these are true “laminated-ply” boards then one is probably strong enough for what you have planned. But… If these are “composite particle” boards as they look to me in the photo then I would use the pair of them as you have them shown>> These plywood boards are slightly larger than the frame, which means that viewed from the top, you won't see the stand. <<Ah, very good then>> However, the way my stand was built, the two collateral sides are slightly higher than the rest of the frame. (I'm not sure why, if it was to prevent the 46 gal tank from moving...). <<Hmm, maybe so… What you can do is to use the boards as you show in the picture and “shim” the gaps to provide total perimeter support>> I remember that on glass tanks, the bottom panel is usually not touching the floor because of the frame. <<Yes>> So I assume those two higher lateral boards were touching the bottom of the glass tank transversally. <<You wouldn’t want those pressure points on the glass itself…and probably not the case if the stand was made for a particular tank, but would depend on the height of the uprights versus the thickness of the frame >> That is why the two plywood boards are currently held mainly by these two side boards, leaving a small ¼ " space all around beneath. <<I see this… While the end panels are the primary structural members, laying the plywood panels across these and placing a few wood shims along the front and back rails should be enough with those beefy panels and for the smaller 36g tank you have planned>> In addition, there are two small lower horizontal panels on each side, inside, near the top as well as another one on the bow side. (pic 3) <<Yes…these “stretchers” are the rails where you would add the shims>> I started to put some plywood boards there too in order to reach the level of the two higher sides. Not sure if this is the best idea....(pic 4) <<If you can match the height of the vertical end panels, essentially “filling-in” the top and bringing it all to level, and then lay the larger panels atop this, then yes…this is a very good approach>> Let me know if my descriptions make any sense. <<It does!>> Once again I appreciate greatly your help! Guillaume <<It is my pleasure to assist. EricR>>

Re: New system design critique & questions 10/9/08 Hi Scott, Thanks as ever for the reply. <Welcome Chris!> I'm pleased to report no problems with the tank drilling - far easier than I anticipated! <Great!> The rest of the tanks were ordered yesterday so I'm just starting to get excited! I had concrete block delivered today & I just wanted to check that my plans will give the required structural integrity - Please see attached pic For the Main tank (5 feet long, 26 inches wide & 20 inches tall with a water depth of 18 inches) I am planning to put 2 courses of concrete block at either end, 3 blocks high, this will give a "wall" at each end of the tank, 26" long (tank width) & a smidge over 8" wide. This will be topped by 3/4" plywood with 4 4"x2" timbers screwed under this base (on edge) & sitting on the concrete walls, then 25mm polystyrene then the tank. All block work will be cemented to the concrete floor. The block work will clearly not have any problem supporting the weight here, but how about the "span" (around 42") between each end? <Four 2X4’s will be plenty strong for this span.> I figure this will be plenty strong enough to not flex but I'd like a 2nd opinion! <Your plan is fine!> Cheers Chris <Good to hear of your success, keep in touch, Scott V.> Re: New system design critique & questions <Oh Chris, one more thing. I would take a piece of 2X4 and screw your spanners together at their ends also to prevent any twisting here. Scott V.>

Question regarding tank stand capacity inside cabinet. 6/4/08
Good Afternoon Bob (or the other kind individual answering this)
<Hello Hans, Scott V. with you.>
First off, an apology. I had e-mailed you a while back regarding a write-up on the Lifegard CustomFlo system, but my computer ended up dying and took all my photos with it.
<Bummer.>
However, I will be finishing that up shortly, as I recently tore the plumbing apart for cleaning and a significant modification... so a new batch of the critical photos has been taken and work progresses again! It's probably for the better anyways, as I've learned a lot more about using the system in the interim both good and bad.
<Great!>
Now for the actual question. My current tank setup is a 90 gallon AGA tank, on their "Modern" series oak stand. It is my first salt water tank, having only done freshwater in the past, and while I learn the differences I have it stocked very lightly, with just a single clown, two damsels, a pair of hermit craps and a peppermint shrimp. Filtration is currently a Penn-Plax Cascade 1200, and about 50 pounds of live rock and sand (slowly adding more rock every few weeks to avoid cycling issues). I've also got a Remora Pro due to arrive any day now and plan on adding a pair of Koralia 3 power heads in the near future. The tank has been running for 5 months now, and is starting to suffer from a red-slime algae buildup. The initial lack of skimmer and water flow is being rectified, but I also honestly admit that my water changes got lax as well.
<Happens to all of us at times, sounds like a nice setup.>
The one thing I didn't fully appreciate is the differences in water changes between fresh water and salt.... pre-mixing 10 gallons in buckets at a time, and having to lift it up over the edge of the tank got very frustrating and messy. So the extra plumbing I've been adding is to put a 29 gallon tank with heater and powerhead under the stand as a sump for pre-mixing and warming the water in anticipation of the changes, I have a loose hose plumbed into the intake line of the filter with appropriate valving that allows me to drain the main tank as well as pull water into the tank through the filter.
<A good idea. We are all more likely to be true with our water changes if we make it an easy affair.>
Functionally it has tested out successfully and I am excited about future variations on the theme. This should, in theory, make the water changes much easier on my back and floors. But the real worry I have right now is weight. Are these commercial stands built to hold that much water on their bottom shelves?
<Most in general are.>
None of the documentation I've found, nor their customer service line, were able to answer the question one way or another. The stand has no way to view the underlying structure either. Worst case, I can cut out the shelf and put in a sufficient support structure, but I'd rather not do that if I don't have to.
<If you are concerned, just cut a piece of plywood to fit inside. This will distribute the load of the tank to the perimeter of the stand, where it is strongest. But, I would not be concerned with a tank this size inside the stand.>
Thank You
-Hans Haase
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Will the desk hold?   8/24/07
Good morning!
How are you? Great site By the way. Tons and tons of info.
I recently bought a 20 gallon long. I will be putting on a desk that has held a 5 gallon and an 8 gallon tall (not at the same time). I weigh like 170 pounds and I sat on the desk with the 5 gallon. The desk did not wobble and it was level with all the weight on it.
Should I do any more tests or would you say it's okay?
One more thing, can I use a pad of carpet as the cushion between the tank and desk?
Thanks,
-Edward
<Hello Edward. Thanks for the kind words about the site. Anyway, in my opinion/experience, the upper limit for putting tanks on anything not designed for supporting one is about 10 gallons. Above that, and you're asking for trouble. While furniture may hold a bigger tank for a while, eventually the wood or whatever sags, and then the stress on the glass bottom of the tank gets skewed, and the tank leaks. Result: poor fishkeeper gets woken at 4 in the morning by the sound of splashing water and has to quickly carry fishes to a bucket and then mop up the floor. Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. So no, I wouldn't do this. Cheers, Neale.>

Questionable Tank Stand – 07/24/07
Hey Crew,
Awesome Site!!! Anyway, I just thought I'd ask you guys a quick question. I bought what seemed good at the time: two small, matching nightstand/dressers for my L36" W14" H18" 40g aquarium. I thought these would be good for $20 instead of the $180 stands they sell at my LFS. What I think I might regret about these things is that they don't meet in the middle, and their's about an inch of space between each and that means the tanks not supported about an inch in the middle. I have had this tank for three yrs., and nothing has happened, but I fear something will. Is there too much stress? Should I get a new stand? Any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you,
Nate
<Hello Nate. Let me tell you a story. One night I was asleep and for some reason I was dreaming about rain. But then I realised I wasn't dreaming about rain, I was listening to rain. And the rain wasn't outside the house, but inside my bedroom. Only after a few moments did it dawn on me that my aquarium was leaking. The bottom pane of glass had cracked during the night because the wooden top of the dresser I had sat it on had finally sagged too far and the pane of glass couldn't support the weight of the water any more. The moral of the story is that you shouldn't assume [a] that any old piece of furniture will support an aquarium safely; or [b] that said furniture will be safe tomorrow because it is working fine today. If you're going to rest an aquarium on two separate cabinets, you have the risk of one of them moving relative to the other, placing stress on the bottom of the tank as one end sags lower than the other. As you probably realise with most aquaria they are very strong in terms of resisting the static forces of a body of water but they are incredibly poor at resisting twisting forces because the silicone has poor resistance to this and the glass has none at all. At the very least, you need to have a single piece of strong wood forming a base upon which the tank rests, plus polystyrene tiles on top of that for cushioning. I'd also recommend some sort of bracing to keep the two cabinets from moving apart from each other. But really, this isn't something I'd consider safe. Your own mileage may vary of course, but I've been stung by the "DIY tank stand" disaster and would never try it again. Cheers, Neale.>

Wrought-Iron Tank Stand...Is It Safe? – 06/04/07
I have a 29-gal. saltwater tank with 10 lbs. of live rock on a wrought iron stand.
<<Okay>>
I am kind of worried about the weight on the stand.
<<Shouldn’t be...if the stand was “made” to support the/a aquarium>>
Do you know how much weight these stands can handle?
Thanks.
<<A few decades back I remember these inexpensive (at the time, anyway) wrought-iron stands being much the “norm”...I even had one that I put “two” 55g tanks on (a saltwater tank above a freshwater tank). Barring any defects in materials or craftsmanship, if the stand was intended to hold the tank it will be fine...though they do tend to be a bit “wobbly” by nature. EricR>>

Need more options... Something for underneath a large acrylic tank and DIY wooden stand?  5/17/07
      Hi, Crew,  please help! (some more)
<Okay>
My eyes are burning  and I can almost recite most posts within tank\stand posts !!!
<Perhaps you're ready to write an article re?>
    I would like to use something else besides pink Styrofoam under my 125 gallon 1\2"acrylic tank(48x24x24).
<Comes in other colors... or you can paint it yourself, make/use a border about...>
  I have done extensive research on your site
and cannot find other "giving" underlayment options. My tank will be set up in my living room on a custom stand that I have polyurethaned and thought that a weight lifting mat may also work, 1\2" dense rubber.
<Oh yes>
  Or possibly a dense neoprene material at 1\4"-1\2".
<Ditto>
   I would like a two inch over tank size border around the tank to also protect my wood stand
<Best to make sure this wood is sealed otherwise>
and for aesthetics.  I would like it to look like a  "mouse pad" , if feasible.
<Such material is available as well>
My stand is a massive, overbuilt and engineered DIY with 1 1\2" hardwood ply solid top. I planed the top imperfections until level and planar until the tank felt real solid and would not slide easy and with no " rock" . I would like the mat to disperse any imperfections of a max 1\16" inch in middle of 48" section of tank. I figured once the weight is added it may settle and may have been o.k. without a mat but just want to do whatever is best.
Question time:
Is there any reaction between acrylic and different rubbers?
<None appreciable>
Is the cost why most people use the pink Styrofoam?
<Don't know... more likely easy availability is the principal determinant here>
What are other options that are used?
<Many... see above... Most anything that is largely inert, "giving" can/does work>
With my tank at around 1250 pounds full, what thickness should I use for the different materials?
<Depends on the issues of level-ness and planarity here... Do you have concerns that given the load with the tank full that there will be some asymmetry imposed? If not, I would not be concerned, NOT use something twixt the stand and tank... not necessary, and a mess in time>
If Styrofoam should be used, what color and thickness do you recommend?
<Likely a half inch will do in this case>
Thanks in advance for a great site. I refer to your site before making any purchases now,  after I feel confident in making the "right choice" for my given situation. Your knowledge is invaluable.
Thanks again, Mark.
<Glad to share, kibitz... Do check out the foam offerings at the big-box stores Home Depot and Lowe's. Bob Fenner>

Sump and Return Pump, and Stand Questions - 02/09/2007
Dear WWM Crew,
   <Scott>
  First, thanks for establishing this informative forum.  It has been extremely helpful and I am a frequent visitor.  I conducted some research but didn't find a good response to the question I have.  I have a 180 gallon acrylic aquarium.  Prior to receiving the aquarium as a surprise gift from my lovely wife, I had purchased a 180 gallon All-Glass stand.  I know that an acrylic tank must have support across the entire bottom of the tank.  If I were to place a 3/4" - 1" piece of plywood on top of the entire stand, would this be enough support for the tank or do you have additional recommendations?
<This thickness plywood should be fine... I would go ahead and fasten it (with screws... brass or stainless would be best... and coat over these...) to the outside edges (every six inches or so) to give added strength to the "inside" of the support>
I could attempt to sell the All-Glass stand, if necessary.  Also, while I was conducting research on return pumps, additional concerns came to mind.  The acrylic tank has a 16" X 5" overflow in the center.  The sump I have ordered from the LFS has arrived and it has two return holes drilled on the end of the tank.  In hindsight, perhaps I should have had the holes drilled in the center side of the sump versus the ends.  Your thoughts?
<Mmm, not a big deal... I'd use the one on hand with the through puts on the end>
The overflow has (2) 1 1/2" dual drains and (2) 3/4" returns.  I was planning on purchasing a Iwaki 70RLT (1500 gph @ 4' Head) or 100RLT (2000 gph @ 4' Head).  Iwaki seems to be the pump of choice in Michael Paletta's "Ultimate Marine Aquariums".
<Is a good product line... amongst a few... though there are some quieter>
Anyway, in determining what the return rate of the pump should be, I'm not sure how many gallons of water will drain out of the tank, and as such what the rate of my return pump should be.  Also, I was contemplating using 2 pumps instead of one, but believe that I would be better off with the one pump (with a 2nd as an emergency back-up).
<I agree>
  Now, for my sump, it is 60 gallons with a refugium in the center.  I probably should have planned this out a bit better because of the overflow being in the center.  I know it is best to have the overflows drain into the first compartment which houses the skimmer.  Would you recommend that I route the drain water to the first compartment
with PVC?
<Yes>
Should I connect both drains using a "T" connector or just have each of them continue to drain separately.
<I would have drain separately... a bit more flow, not as much noise from the separate fall...>
An additional concern I have is that I will have to use additional PVC to route the returns from the pump (housed on the end of the sump) to the center, which I'm sure will affect the amount of water that is being returned.
<Yes, but not much>
  I was planning on turning the water over 10X+ times/hour, but I'm not sure how feasible this is with my current set-up.  Have you ever known anyone to have the sump drilled in the center side and have the return pump housed there?
<Oh yes>
If you feel it necessary to modify the sump, please let me know.  There aren't many quality resources in Tucson for me to turn to.   I sincerely apologize for the lengthy email, but I know that you have the resources and expertise necessary to provide good advice.  Thanking you in advance.     
  Scott
<Well... the principal concern I have is the rate of flow of water to/through the refugium portion... I would devise your plumbing to have this reduced considerably, by bypass. Bob Fenner>

Using Treated Wood For Aquarium Structures - 02/04/07
Dearest Bob and Friends,
<<Greetings>>
Wishing good health to all; I have been on a very strict diet for 3 weeks.. argh!)
<<I hate diets...>>
I have finished building a very strong stand for a new 90-gal I will be setting up.
<<Cool!>>
I am quite sure that I made a mistake in my wood selection.
<<Oh?>>
I used 5x5 treated wood.  Afterwards I found out that treated wood has a poison biocide stain (green) on it.
<<Mmm, indeed...is why it is called "treated."  The use of arsenic (chromated copper arsenate) was banned for residential use in 2004, the treated wood available to homeowners (hobbyists) today contains either alkaline copper quat or copper azole.  While much less toxic to us than the arsenic based treatment, you'll notice the common ingredient is copper...sometimes as high as 96%.  Obviously you don't want this leaching in to your tank>>
This is a problem right?
<<It can be yes...and is why I chose to not use treated lumber when building my in-wall reef display>>
Can I simply varnish over?
<<I don't recommend this...it just won't last in this environment, and the wood is still likely too "wet" anyway.  Your best option is to use a penetrating oil stain to seal the wood that can easily be renewed as needed>>
Another problem is that the wood I used was not 100% dry when I got it.
<<Ah, yes...treated and kiln-dried wood is sometimes available, but more often than not the wood at the home centers (Lowe's/HD) is not "dried" and is only hours/days old after the treatment process>>
Now it seems to have finished drying since it was built and now the areas where the tank sits on the stand is no longer planar.
<<Not unusual...treated wood is usually meant for "rough" construction and is not the best "cuts"...couple that with the extremely high moisture content and bowing/twisting is inevitable.  Another reason for using untreated and kiln-dried wood>>
Off by 1/8 inch at some places.  I tried to level off using a hand sander and files but I think I made it worse.
<<You're best option here is to start over with better wood I think>>
The wood has also cracked in some areas but I doubt that is of any worry.
<<Mmm, I don't agree...there will be an awful lot of weight on this stand>>
I honestly think my stand could hold a train car. (5x5 wood, secured using 7 inch 3/8 wood screws, and wood glue, structure is all boxed in)
<<Ah...but is all "moot" if it is not level and planar>>
At this point I'm thinking that I could simply place a 1/4 inch thick rubber strip under the perimeter (this is a perimeter trim tank) of the tank to compensate for my non-planar mess!
<<Mmm, I don't think this is a good solution here>>
I think I remember reading your advice against this but I think at this point I'm ready to accept a non-ideal solution.
<<Are you ready to accept having the tank burst?>>
I think the odds of me bringing this planar using hand tools is slim.
<<Likely, yes>>
It is not as easy and is actually quite easy to make worse.
<<Indeed...and reason enough to chalk this up as a "learning experience" and just start over>>
Thank you very much for your time.
<<Happy to share.  EricR>>
Tristan

Using large buffet as aquarium stand 8/11/05
I am planning on buying a 90 gallon tall tank (36x18x31) or a 70 gallon (36x18x25) and a custom refugium (15x18x31 or 15x18x25) that would sit side-by-side on the same stand.  Would the refugium need to be higher in order to flow back into the tank without a pump?
<Yes>
  Maybe it can be done at this height if the tank is drilled?
<Water seeks its own level...>
Anyway, my main question:  The "stand" I am planning on using is an antique buffet.  It is "strong like bull", but I am not sure it could handle the weight of the tanks.  
<Mmm, the tanks et al. weigh about ten pounds per gallon filled up... I would at least try placing this much weight on the piece of furniture... to try it out...>
Considering the different weights on each end of the stand, would this set up be unstable?
<Only way to tell is to try...>
Would it be better to get a tank  with a 48" length (centered on the buffet) and forget using the refugium? How do I determine whether this piece of furniture can hold these aquariums?
<Experiment... not with the tanks, but equivalent weight>
Do the supports need to be a certain distance apart--or certain thickness?
<Likely you will want to place some four by pieces of wood every two feet... under the buffet, to support... on the principal members>
I would really rather not get another stand if I don't have to.   It will be on carpet on top of slab foundation, and the legs are large and flat.
If I decide on the 90 gal, there will be about 180 lbs of LR and 110lbs of substrate.  If I go with the 70, it would include 130 lbs of LR and 110lbs of substrate.
<And the water at about 8.2 pounds per gallon... about ten pounds per gallon...>
The refugium would hold an extra 30-40 lbs of live rock and 20 lbs of substrate.  The main tank is to be a coral tank and the refugium is to serve as a typical refugium (algae, copepods, shrimp) and a seahorse tank (I am planning to use a breeder box in the refugium to further protect some of the shrimp and pods from the seahorses).
Thanks for your time,
Angela
<Do want to mention that you consider the probable damage to this piece... from moisture, spills... a good, strong stand can be made for not much money... see Ozreef.org for DIY plans here... IMO, leave the buffet for future "Antiques Roadshow" programs. Bob Fenner>

Aquarium stand question  9/26/05
Hey guys I don't know if you remember me but you helped me out a lot in setting up my 1500 gallon reef tank 3 years ago. (sorry I never got you any pics will send them right away) My parents are moving to New York and I am taking the 75 reef that they had in their living room. I'm moving it from an all glass 75 to a modified SeaClear system 2 (replaced bio filter with refugium its cool) and the tank is going to be on a dresser (the dresser has had this tank on it before and more than supports the weight) the concern is the dresser is on carpet and wobbles a bit with just the weight of the empty tank on it. Will this problem correct itself with the weight of the tank and rock or become worse like I have a feeling it will?
<Mmm, doubtful>
Also would a piece of 1 inch plywood maybe 4 inches wider than the base of the dresser correct this issue? Thanks for your help you guys are great!
<I would fill it otherwise empty of gravel, gear and see how steady, stable (and level, planar) this tank is... I suspect it will solidly settle in with the weight of the water. Bob Fenner>

Tank Stand  9/26/05
Hey guys I don't know if you remember me but you helped me out a lot in setting up my 1,500 gallon reef tank 3 years ago. (Sorry I never got you any pics will send them right away!) My parents are moving to New York and I am taking the 75 reef that they had in their living room. I’m moving it from an All-glass 75 to a modified sea clear system 2 (replaced bio filter with refugium its cool) and the tank is going to be on a dresser (the dresser has had this tank on it before and more than supports the weight).  The concern is the dresser is on carpet and wobbles a bit with just the weight of the empty tank on it. Will this problem self-correct with the weight of the tank and rock or become worse like I have a feeling it will? Also would a piece of 1 inch plywood maybe 4 inches wider than the base of the dresser correct this issue? Thanks for your help you guys are great!
<I like the idea of a piece of plywood under the stand, level it, then give it a test fill to see if it stays level or requires some shimming.  Wobbles scare me, it might correct itself with the weight but I would sleep better knowing it is level and sturdy.  We look forward to some pics of the 1,500 gallon reef; I'm getting jealous just thinking about it. -Gage>

300 gal tank stand  12/30/2005
Hi, Bob:
<Phil>
I’ve been reading the WWM site for info as I prepare to finally set up my 130 and 300 gal tanks as reef tanks.   They were in storage for 23 years until I bought a house and know I do not intend to move soon.
<I'll bet!>
I built an aquarium room in the single bay area of a three bay garage to get the aquariums on a concrete floor.  I have many questions, but will concentrate on my current area of concern.  They are both All Glass tanks.  The 130 has about ¼ inch space between the bottom of the tank and the bottom molding that I think can be resolved with ½ to 1 inch Styrofoam sheet,
<Yes, should be fine>
but the 300 has about 1 inch space between the bottom glass and the outside bottom edge.  I was thinking of filling this rectangle with 1 inch Styrofoam and then the whole tank set on a stand with 1 inch Styrofoam.  
<Mmm, likely a good idea... the "floating" bottom (this is what they're called in the industry) is fine, but the edge/frame is best situated on the foam>
I thought of using 4 x 6 beams, with the 6 inch in vertical under the tanks.  Do you think I could get a 4 foot opening under the 130 or 300 gal stand using this wood, as the sump will be used for both systems and is wider than both aquariums?
<Yes, as long as the rest of the structure is sound>
There is limited amount of space in this room because my wife asked me to reduce its size.  The sump is 41 x 46 x 30High.  The garage floor slopes ¼ inch every two feet in a north to south orientation and the 130 will be in this orientation, creating additional problems in building a level tank stand.
<Do shim the stand to being level...>
I have Googled DIY aquarium stands finding some info.
<Try Ozreef.org?>
I was going to use a plenum system for NNR in the 130, but my LFS recommends against this and recommends using live rock in both tanks and the sump, which I was going to do anyway.  
<Up to you... ultimately... not me or the LFS... But I would put a DSB in this sump... with or w/o a barrier/plenum>
I also plan to use a refugium for macroalgae and critter development and was told that I should get plenty
of critters in a system this size with the live rock that will be in place.  The stands are a critical step in the process.  Neither tank has
been filled with water since their purchase.  I am not in a hurry to make a mistake, but am so close to water in the tank that I can hardly
wait.  Please help with your suggestions/input any way possible.  Thank you.  Phil
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Acrylic Tank Support in ASCII? - 12/05/05
Hi Bob,
<<EricR here...Bob is off in a warm and sunny place keeping his diving skills finely honed...>>
I was researching what the web says about supporting an acrylic tank, and found your article: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tksstds.htm. I am replacing a 20-yr old 65g (48x18x18) glass tank with acrylic. It is going on top of a wrought iron stand which has a horizontal support, 6 inches from the back. The tank is sitting on a plastic frame with center support 24 inches from end.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 0
+ +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 6"
+ +
+ +
+ +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 18"
Do I need plywood to go under the tank, or is the iron cross brace sufficient to support the almost center of the tank?
<<Plywood is advised here, the bottom will flex/bulge under the weight otherwise. Many acrylic tanks are made with thinner acrylic on the bottom than the sides as it is assumed it will be "fully" supported...and...manufacturers will not honor warranties if the tank is not properly supported.>>
Thanks.
Neil Frank
Raleigh, NC
<<Regards, EricR>>

Looking For An Oceanic Tank Stand - 03/15/2006
Hello, My name is Joey and I love your website.
<Thank you Joey.>
I wanted to know if you can direct me to a place or number to find a stand for an Oceanic tank for a 84x24.5 x 25 a 200 RRE BO.  Please help as soon as you can because I am moving and the shop that I go to all the time for some reason can't find a stand before the first of next month. This would mean a lot to me for your help and I Thank You for all your help that I have got from the site.
<Well Joey, the best I can think of is to try contacting Oceanic here  http://www.oceanicsystems.com/ . They should be able to offer some help.>
Thanks,
Joey Harper  
<You're welcome. - Josh>

Re: Looking For An Oceanic Tank Stand - 03/16/2006
Thank you very much.
<You're welcome.>
I have just one more question for you please, I want to set up the 200G on the second floor of a house that I'm moving to and the floor is all wood and when I walk around the second floor apartment it makes no sound and it feels pretty strong.
<It really depends on the construction of the house. I wouldn't put this on the second floor though. We're talking well over 2'000 lbs. here.>
Do you think it could fall through the house?
<A very real possibility.>
Do you think 200G is to heavy?
<Don't know for sure, too many factors.>
Please let me know and I thank You so much.
<You're welcome Joey. - Josh>