Allelopathy Culprit – 10/26/09 Hi Crew: <Bonnie... why are you sending images of 13 meg size?...> I have attached 2 pics of my 3 yr. old 29G reef tank. The specs are: Salinity 1.026, KH=11, Calcium=440, Magnesium=1320, Temp=78 degrees, 1 150W MH 14,000K, use an Aqua C Remora skimmer and an Aqua Clear 300 filter which also houses a sack of ChemiPure Elite and a small amount (2 tsp.) of Rowa Phos. I faithfully perform a 25-30% water change every weekend. Nitrates and Ammonia are zero. <So far...> Fish: 2 orange & white Ocellaris clowns and 2 black & white Ocellaris clowns, 1 Kole Tang. <I'd stick with one pair of Clowns and the Kole needs more room> I've had the orange & white clowns and the Kole tang for 3 years; the black and white clowns for 1 year. As you can see by the pics I have 2 variety of xenia, red Goniopora, frog spawn, 1 crocea clam, Zoanthids/green star polyps, orange Ricordea, blue sponge and the low encrusting star polyp (don't know the proper name). Everything in the tank is doing well and thriving with full extension except the crocea clam. I've had this clam for 3 years and it continues to show new shell growth. However, the past 4 months I have noticed that is retracting more and more. I have noticed when the lights first come on in the morning, the clam is fully extended and beautiful. But within about 3-4 hrs. the clam starts closing up tight. Since all tank parameters are good, I feel that once all the other corals start opening up, there must be a bit of allelopathy or chemical warfare going on which the clam is reacting to. I know that the Zoanthids & star polyps can be fairly toxic and have even read that the Goniopora can put out some pretty good stinging cells. <You are correct> My question to you is what do you feel is the most noxious animal currently in my system for me to remove? <Unfortunately, the Xeniid/s...> I would hate to loose my clam, <Or lose it likely> and am willing to remove what is the biggest culprit or culprits. I change the sack of ChemiPure every 2 months. <Good... I'd switch this out monthly... leave one in for the two months... i.e. leap-frog two units> I'm thinking maybe I should use ESV charcoal and change it every weekend when I do my water changes instead of using the ChemiPure. What would you recommend? <Worth trying> Thanks in advance for any suggestions/help you can lend me. Bonnie <Is there room for another, or larger system? Bob Fenner>

Re: Allelopathy Culprit  10/27/09 Hi Bob, Sorry about the pictures! Thank you for your reply. It was an eye-opener for me! I was really surprised that you had recommended the xenias be taken out over te other tank occupants. <Mmm, am sure there is some way (though I don't know how to do this) to make /a symbolic formula/e for "who gets along with whom"... but I can only guess given appearances and lists of cohabitants... Whereas, like a RedOx chart for elements, one can rank who is most likely to steal/lose electrons, things aren't so neat and precise with dealing with allelopathogenic relations... Often Xeniids, in long association with other Cnidarians, become toxic> I was always under the impression that xenias got along with everything and were not toxic at all. Fact is, the following was posted on WWM (don't know what date?) .......... "-Xenia / Seahorse compatibility- Hello crew, My tank is ready for captive bread seahorses!!! But I was wondering, is it a good idea to mix this coral pom pom xenia in with the seahorses??? I heard they sting, I have right now button corals and green star polyps!! <Well you heard wrong, xenia are one of the few corals which do not possess nematocysts (no stinging!).> Would that be a good mix??? <Supposing you have the appropriate lighting, you should be all set.> Thank you so much!!! <Enjoy, -Kevin>" <Ah, yes... not stinging, but a good deal of chemical aggression> So, thanks again, for your recommendation. I am going to remove all the rocks that have the xenias and sell them back to my LFS. Fact is, my xenias have grown so well over the last couple of years that I have propagated them many times and have actually sold them to my LFS! This time they can buy them all. Bonnie <Likely "about half" removal will re-establish balance here... with harvesting in future! Bob Fenner>

Clownfish not looking well: Likely Allelopathy Too many anemones and polyps in a small space. 8/6/2009
<Hi Anna>
Started our saltwater tank August 2008. We adjusted our tank slowly. We filtered our LR for a whole 30 days, then we added the sand. We waited an additional month and began to add fish and anemone. Knowing what we know now we would have waited longer to add the fish and anemone. We would have
tested our levels better and researched food.
<But you are learning.>
We seemed to be doing well until two months ago. Suddenly our Firefish became listless, not his usual zippy self. His mouth was open and he was gasping. He has been this way for two months now, still alive somehow. I have no idea how his feeding has been. We see him occasionally <Something in the water or some other fish beating him up.>.
Last month one of our percula clowns became listless as well. He laid on the bottom of the tank and just bobbed around in one spot. He didn't appear
to eat much. His mouth was constantly open and turning translucent. He began to lose color in his fins and his stripes began to fade a little into his orange.
<This is a telling clue here,>
He disappeared, we have been unable to find him in our tank. We did notice a spike in our nitrates and we did a water change to correct this last week. Now our other percula clown has developed the same symptoms.
She is listless, not eating, mouth open and paling....none of the fish had any substance come off of them when we performed our freshwater dips. They don't seem to have any dots or splotches on their bodies.
<No, this isn't a disease.>
We want to find out what is wrong before we lose another. We have been unable to find any information
on our fishes symptoms. What are we doing wrong?
<See below.>
tank: 55gallons, fully adjusted for almost a year pH and chemical levels: normal range
<Sorry, pet peeve - What is normal? Actual values make it much easier to diagnose.. salinity: normal <1.023 - 1.026?>
food: anemone- mysis shrimp and silversides, fish- flake food
<Fine.>
occupants: 2 percula clowns, blue damsel, Firefish, blenny, mandarin, hermit crab, 3 snails,
<A bit crowded for a 55, but not too bad. The Mandarin is likely to starve in such a small tank though.>
BTA, LTA, and another type of anemone whose name I have forgotten, and numerous feather tip anemone, polyps, and corals.
<Ding! We have a winner. Too many anemones and polyps in the tank. You essentially have a chemical war going on in your tank between the anemones, and the various corals. Your fish are caught in the crossfire.
You will need to remove at least two of the anemones and likely some of the polyps.. Additionally, do run carbon in your filter to soak up these toxins.>
<Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anemcompfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cnidcomp4.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/polypcompfaqs.htm >
<MikeV>

Bannerfish Coral Compatibility 7/23/09
Dearest Crew,
<Hello Jill>
Thanks so much for all of your expertise and most of all, patience! It amazes me how cool and calm many of you are when dealing with inquiries that have been made hundreds if not thousands of time! That would quite frankly, drive me insane!
<Is why my fridge is well stocked with beer.> <<Heeee! And mine almost always empty! RMF>>
My question today is regarding my 5 foot long acrylic 75 gallon reef. I am slowly stocking with corals and fish and would like to add two Heniochus diphreutes. My only current fish is a Yellowheaded Jawfish. This system will be very lightly stocked with fish. I know that Henis have the potential to nip at certain corals. My research has led me to understand that Zoanthids, open brains, clams, and tubeworms may be particularly tempting to these fish. Do you know of any other coral/invert species that may be particularly tasty to these fish and that I should avoid? I have several Montiporas, Porites, as well a some Euphyllias so far that (I hope) will be of no interest to the Bannerfish.
<You have researched well. The H. diphreutes is generally reef safe, but it can be difficult to distinguish H. diphreutes from the closely related Heniochus acuminatus which has a more prominent snout and longer anal fin, and is not reef safe. Although the H. diphreutes is often titled reef safe, quite often they will pick at Zoanthids and Featherduster worms. It is the risk you will have to take if you wish to keep this fish. If I were to incorporate a butterfly fish in a reef tank, the H. diphreutes would be my choice.>
Thanks crew!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Jill

Is My Aquarium an Allelopathic Nightmare?   7/18//09
Hello! I have a 55 gallon reef aquarium. It was given to me by my uncle as an octocoral reef with some LPS corals. It had quite a few leather corals (I know that's not very specific, but I don't know exactly what kind of Sarcophyton they were,) some zoanthids, many red sea xenia, two large (8"+) neon Palau Nepthea, 2 Ricordea, a small Tridacna maxima and a few colonies of Caulastrea furcata.
It has been quite a few years since then and I have went to more of a stony coral reef. It currently has some acropora, Montipora, Stylophora, a derasa clam, lots of red sea xenia, a small leather mushroom (about 1" and I've had it for years,) a Trachyphyllia radiata, a Plerogyra sinuosa, 4 chalice frags, zoanthids, a Euphyllia divisa, an orange tree sponge (I know you probably don't support keeping this,)
<Usually not>
some Actinodiscus mushrooms, an ocellaris clownfish and a gorgonian that I can't tell if it is a Muriceopsis flavida or a Pseudopterogorgia bipinnata.
At the pet store it was just labeled "Gorgonian." My protein skimmer is broken so I am just going off of biological filtration (55 pounds of live rock and 80 of live sand.)
<I'd get a/the skimmer going stat!>
Most everything is growing very well- for my standards, which may be mal-calibrated from my aquarium always being a "mixed reef" possibly with toxic warfare. But some things, especially a few frags of acropora, have not grown at all since the day I bought them.
<Not likely to do so in this setting>
I hear/read a lot of conflicting information about allelopathy between corals and can't find much on the subject. I was hoping that you could set me straight.
<Mmm, read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above>
I was told xenia would be good with my stony corals and clam; is this correct?
<Can, if it doesn't grow... "too much">
What can I, or can not put together in an aquarium without negative results?- Ricordea, gorgonians, sponges, SPS, LPS, clams, mushroom corals, and different kinds of soft corals. Within those groups, can they still be allopathically aggressive, like one leather coral against another?
<... read the above citation>
What difference does physical proximity to the opposing animal make?
<A great deal... for physical stinging species, concentration gradients for chemical releasing ones...>
I've heard that soft corals and hard corals can easily be kept together as long as they are on opposite side of the aquarium.
<Mmm, no; too vague, general a statement. Not so>
That doesn't make sense to me; it's the same water. There are so many compatibility charts for saltwater aquarium inhabitants. But usually all the many different kinds of desirable reef invertebrates and cnidarians are lumped into one "coral/inverts."
<There are approaches to more appropriate stocking... read...>
I guess what I mean is: What should I do? I would like to keep it an SPS reef. What should I remove, if anything, to keep it that way? My current understanding is that LPS corals, Tridacna clams, sponges, sea fans, polyps, and mushroom corals are okay with SPS or octocorals; but octocorals and SPS can not be together. Is this correct?
<... Not altogether, no>
Why or why not? I was thinking of starting a 10 gallon soft coral aquarium with my xenia and one leather coral. Would this be a good idea, or is it not necessary? If there are compatibility problems, could it be solved by heavy filtration, different coral placement or something else other than completely removing soft corals? Would Heliopora caerulea count as a hard coral for these purposes?
Are toxic compounds released by corals not as big of a problem as I have heard?
And on a side note, I had fragged the neon Palau Nepthea a few times and were doing really well. But and all at once, in about a week, they all kind of melted, or disintegrated. Everything else in the
aquarium was fine and all my parameters were good- SG 1.026, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, temp 77, PH 8.3, DKH 10. I didn't give any thought to the idea of a new introduction releasing offensive toxins; I had introduced a few SPS frags right before it happened. Was that the killer or is there something else it could have been?
<Can't tell from the data presented>
Thank you so much your time. I had no idea where else to go. I love your website by the way. :)
Logan
<Please use it. Bob Fenner>

Toxicity - 7/15.09
Hello super aquatic life question technicians!!
< Hello Rob! I think that will be my new official title.....>
I did read thoroughly before coming to you. Unfortunately there may be too much information for my feeble mind!
<I know the feeling!>
ANYHOO...
I am planning an anemone/clown fish habitat in a 92 gallon corner tank.
If I add them at the same time, can I put one of each, small bubble tip rose and green in the tank together? From there I would let them split, would not add any new.
<As far I as I know, this should work...though it would be safest to stick with one parent anemone to avoid mixing species.>
I am also hoping to cheat a little here. I am designing the system as an open top with a metal halide pendant for easy feeding. Can I add an open brain, a few dendro polyps and a few Ricordea?
<I wouldn't. It would probably work out fine, but I think in the long run everything (and you!) will be happier with a minimalist stocking approach.
Those anemones can do a lot of damage to other corals, up close or at a distance.>
Only after the anemones have settled. It will just be easier to feed everyone in this system. The current system has a huge full hood that was poorly designed!
<These must be designed by experts in aquarist thwarting! I have seen more poorly designed hoods....>
I know that mushrooms are quite toxic, but can't find specific information on Ricordea regarding this. Or is that because they are one in the same?
<Ricordea is a genus of Corallimorpharian, and many are purported to have potent allelopathic properties.>
Thank you for your time!
<Thanks for writing! Best of luck,>
Rob
<Benjamin>

Re: Few questions I need to ask you. Allelo...       3/19/09
Wow Bob, Thanks for the quick reply! You did it again! I never even thought of chemical warfare! Boy did I miss this one! Thinking back now, after reading the link you sent, I do believe You helped me figure it out.
I bought my Gorgonia soon after I established the 135 and that seems to be about the time, that my finger and toadstool started acting up!
<Ahh!>
I thought about the whole spacing aspect and found that did not apply. In my 135, I've only got 13 small corals. I'll be trading the Gorgonia in tomorrow, after work! I knew I ran a risk by having one, but never thought it would effect the leathers, being they are such tough creatures! The Toadstool was my first coral three years ago and my clown misses it. I'm guessing that's why my coralline is dying, too! Dude, I owe ya! If you're ever near Louisville(or Augusta) GA, email me, I'll cook you a really good dinner and bake you a cake!!!
<Oooh, I do so enjoy cakes... Nowadays, I've got to wait for a real hankering... as trying to eat a whole box make-up takes me a week or so>
Thanks so much!
Linda
P.S. I'll let you know in a month how the two leathers are doing.
<Thank you Linda. Bob Fenner>
Box, who said anything about a box? Have a great day!
Linda
<Heeee! Even the frosting I just get nowadays out of those little tubs... Decadent... but easy. Cheers! BobF>

Cnid. allelopathy concerns... mostly 'Shrooms  3/12/2009
Hi crew,
<Marc>
My head is officially spinning. I have been logging hours of reading on your website about chemical warfare, and have become very concerned about my leathers and LPSs in the same tank. I have decided to keep the LPSs and return the leathers.
<Perhaps best>
I have a 75 gallon tank, that I do run charcoal on, that houses a Hammer, Torch, Colt, Finger Leather, Toadstool, Cauliflower and Daisy Polyp corals. I also have a mix of about 8 different mushrooms.
<All can be "blended" in a system... given careful introduction, spacing, mixed water acclimation through quarantine....>
Now all the leathers aside from the colt will be gone tonight, I don't see any ill effects yet on the LPSs, but better safe than sorry. Actually, the opposite seems to be the case, since I added the LPSs the leathers infrequently open., and they are on opposite sides of the tank. My question is about the mushrooms. I understand they can be unyielding, but do they pose any treat to the LPSs chemically?
<Can, yes>
I've been looking on WWM, but what I keep reading is that they just have a tendency to out grow slower growing corals.
<Again, possibly... Depends more on prevailing conditions... light, foods mostly...>
I moved all the mushrooms to the bottom of the tank, aside from two fuzzy mushrooms that attached themselves to a large rock which the Hammer is sitting. I know they are both capable of stinging each other, my question is, who will win?
<More times than not the Euphyllia... IF the Corallimorphs are starting larger, healthier, are "higher up" in the water... they might best the Hammer>
I hate to put it that way, but it seems to be to difficult to move or remove either, I'm less worried about the Mushroom, seeing that I'm looking to only add LPSs from here on in.
Thanks for the help again,
Marc
<Again... with attention to slowly adding more Cnidarian life, consistency in maintenance, water quality... these can all learn to live together. Bob Fenner>

Mystery deaths... "coral fish allelopathy"  3-5-09
Well, it comes time for me to write back in to you guys, for your well appreciated advise and support. The pic I have attached is of my Stomatella varia, you identified it for me the first time I saw it. I just happened to catch it out exploring for the first time since! I thought you might like to see it (its gotten a little bigger!). You can use the pic on your site if you want.
<Thank you for this>
To catch you up on what I have; 5 1/2 month old 29g (40lbs live sand, 50lbs live rock) LPS tank (Diaseris, Euphyllia, Trachyphyllia, Caulastrea, Micromussa, Dendrophyllia, and Echinopora), a few small SPS (xenia, zoos, and mushrooms), and one Leather (Nephthea). I am well aware of being over stocked with corals, and am in the process now of researching new equipment for a 90g I will be purchasing this spring. I believe I have the chemical warfare under control
<I would NOT add any more Cnidarian life here>
with weekly 5g water changes, and am now using Chemipure in my hob filter (I just started using this 4 weeks ago, and am not sure how often I should change this out considering my tank load.
<I would "leap frog" the one unit of Chemi-Pure with a new one, leaving two units in at a time... removing the one that is two months old...>
I was changing my regular carbon biweekly until trying this). I am also using an AquaC remora skimmer. My corals are not my concern in this email. They are growing fast, and I actually have a few new polyps forming on my Dendrophyllia! I should add, that along my hitch hiker Stomatella, I have a few small hermits, an Emerald crab, a Turbo, and Trochus snail, a Fire shrimp, and lots of hitch hiker stars which are all doing well.
My parameters are; SG 1024, PH 8.4, NH3/No2: 0, No3: 5. I have had some trouble keeping Ca and KH stable, trying to keep KH at 10, and Ca at 440. The tank doesn't seem to like to stay that high, and tends to stay at KH 7-8, and Ca 400-420.
My fish are my concern today, and after reading and reading, I am writing. Since Dec, I have tried and tried to keep fish, and they keep dying!
<... Is almost certainly resultant, closely related at least, to interactions between your disparate groups of "corals">
In Dec. I bought a Royal Gramma, and a Banggai Cardinal. They each made it 2 weeks to the day, finally at the bottom gasping for air, and dying quickly after. I let my tank go fishless for 5 weeks, and bought another Gramma. He seemed to be doing well, so a week later I bought another Banggai. My 2nd Banggai made it just under a week, dying with a white string of death, and gasping for air. My Gramma was still eating, so I tried another fish (a flametail Goby) In the middle of this, I thought maybe there may be a parasite in the tank, catching my Gramma flashing on the rock once. I read up on your website, and bought a Neon Goby, so he could clean any thing up if there was. Well, my Gramma made it another 2 days, and then my Flametail committed suicide! UGH!! Didn't he know that he couldn't swim on my hardwood floor???
<Heeee, ohhhh>
I even have a cover on my tank! Well, I waited 2 more weeks, and was given another Banggai by my awesome LFS. He had a hard time at first, not eating for 4 days, then he came around and was eating like a monster, and all of a sudden, 2 weeks after he came home, white string of death, gasping for air..... What none of us can figure out, is what the heck???!!!
<Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
or perhaps better, use the in-place search tool with the terms: "coral fish allelopathy">
My Neon, is still the happiest creature in the tank with his goofy little face, now in my tank for 6 wks!!!
<This group of fishes lives in close association with "corals"... is much more tolerant of their activity>
His staying alive (which is great of course), is confusing all of us! I drip acclimated each fish each between 45 min.s and 2 hours each, nothing works. One thing though, I did lose a peppermint shrimp in the mix, but I honestly think he got beat out of food and home by the fire shrimp who didn't seem happy to have him around. (I will be buying a QT tank along with my 90g btw).
I did have some minor Cyanobacteria, that I siphoned out when the last Banggai was in the tank, thinking that may the problem.
<Good... might be an influence as well>
I also replaced my 50g HOB with a 70g HOB, and added a 3rd powerhead to the tank. It didn't save him. This seems to happen after every water change (I am using RO/DI), but I can't go without doing changes so what now?
<Save up for the 90... keep what you have now, try to be satisfied that you are doing the best you can... and read>
I never lost a fish setting up my Mbuna Cichlid tank which has been running solidly for a year now, loosing these fish has been heart breaking!
<Good... a good thing to have such a response to loss>
I have an idea that you will be telling me not to add anything, but in the hopes of being able to keep one or 2 more fish....
Sorry for the long winded explanation, thanks again for your input!! Nancy
<Thank you for sharing Nancy. Your "situation" is not uncommon at all... With time going by, often there is "better success" in introducing new life to such settings as yours... In reading, going over the ppt presentation cited above... you'll encounter a process of "Boris Karloff-ing" water back and forth twixt a main/display as yours, and a quarantine system for new arrivals... "acclimating" them over some weeks time... This may work here for introducing new fish livestock. Bob Fenner>

Soft coral compatibility 02/08/09
Dear Crew,
We have been reading how soft corals, hard corals and anemones should not be mixed in the same tank. Would the following be compatible in the same tank:
rock anemone (Epicystis crucifer), the green polyps (Pachyclavularia sp), yellow button polyps (Zoanthus sp.), Ricordea Florida, Green striped mushroom (Actinodiscus sp.) and Zoanthids such as the fire and ice polyps.
<Maybe... in what size tank? With what filtration? But even in a big tank with oodles of filtration, it's still anyone's guess if everything will play nice. I don't see any obvious problems with this mix, but you just never know for sure.>
Thanks for all your help,
Chris
<Cheers,
Sara M.> <<... none of these are soft corals... RMF>>

Mixing Butterfly with coral, comp.   2/3/09
Hi guys. I have been doing lots of research as to what butterfly fish can go with which coral. I have read both the Scott Michael book, the Bob Fenner book, and used various resources on the web, as well as my LFS. While both books are very informative, the specific information as to what each fish would eat is somewhat sketchy.
<Mmm, actually... not so... There are some "almost strictly" planktivorous species... that are identified... in these works, even just on WWM...>
There does appear to be an irony, in that it seems that the more colorful a fish is the more difficult it is to care for, or the more likely it will eat corals!
<Tis so>
So the specific fish I am interested in would be one or two of the following in order of preference:
Chaetodon melannotus,
<Not such a good choice>
C semilarvatus, C. falcula.
auriga, C. punctatofasciatus,
<These are... along with Forcipigers, Heniochus, Coradions, Hemitaurichthys species, Some other Chaetodons...>
C miliaris (but I don't like that in captivity the miliaris can lose its color). I am trying to get an idea of which coral
would be most likely to succumb to their appetites, and it is not easy.
<SPS mainly...>
I currently have a 125 gallon tank with 200 pounds of live rock, an ASM protein skimmer, 50 gallon sump, and two 96W dual lamps, (along with two metal halide (don't know wattage) which I do not currently use).
Fish are four blue green chromis, one bicolor angel (doing very well, and eating like mad at every feeding), and one coral beauty angel. It might interest you to know the two angels get along fabulously, with the bicolor being the leader, and the c. beauty being his shadow.
<And there's sufficient room for both>
I also have one cleaner shrimp, ten blue leg hermits, and twenty assorted snails. Water quality has been excellent, with my biggest "problem" being nitrates of 20ppm.
<Mmm, a DSB in the sump likely... RDP with macro algal culture>
I am not interested in having a full blown reef tank but I would like to have a few corals. So my question
is: are there any corals that could survive in a set up like this?
<Mmm, very likely yes>
I like the polyps most, but anything that could make it would be worth trying.
<I'd try them>
Thanks for your great informative site!
Bruce
<Happy to share. Bob Fenner>

Help with Fish Loss... Cnidarian, supplement, cascade event?    1/8/09
Hi,
<Hello there Richard>
I need help!!! James (salty dog) helped me about a month ago with my calcium and magnesium levels which were really low. I have been battling to try and get some growth and colour from my SPS corals but have a bigger problem now. Tank is 55 gallon live rock with mostly SPS corals, also a sun coral and 1 Acan. Very few softies, only a couple of mushrooms, as I prefer SPS and know these guys can be chemically aggressive. I also keep 1 BTA in the tank,
<Mmmm>
some shrimps and feather dusters. Anyway, the inverts for once are not the main problem. Fish inhabitants (up until yesterday) were 2 Firefish, 2 Perculas, 1 coral beauty and a mandarin.
I have been away over Xmas, returning on 2nd Jan, so don't know may have initially happened. However, I left simple instructions for Dad to feed flake and some Cyclopeeze every 3 days or so and not to overfeed. He did mention that all my fish 'seemed to be hiding' when he fed them and thought it was because of the cold (not a fish expert!). However, the hiding was ominously correct. I have unfortunately had the flu that has affected just about everyone here in the UK, so haven't been able to do much since returning, but I know there is a problem.
Symptoms/problems I have noticed:
Larger (female?) percula left BTA which for her is extremely rare, then died tonight. Very rapid decline. 2nd percula who doesn't inhabit BTA also hiding, which is again unusual.
Both Firefish died tonight. No visible sign of problems other than some erratic swimming, followed by periods of inactivity, loss of appetite.
General sign of distress, but no visible signs of lesions etc.
<Yikes... something "overt" at play here>
Coral beauty also hiding, not exploring tank as much as usual.
Feather duster has lost crown, feather duster colony I also have also appears to have lost some of the colony. Christmas tree worms retracted for long periods.
Only fish that appears unaffected is the mandarin, who looks quite happy.
<This may be a valuable clue>
Causes.
Have tested for salinity (1024) temp (24.5C) ammonia (0), nitrites (0) nitrates (0) and phosphates (0)
<You do need, want "some" measurable NO3 and HPO4... these are essential nutrients for your Cnidarians ('corals')>
and ph (8.4) all of which don't appear to have changed since I was away.
Large amount of micro bubbles in the tank since I made an adjustment to skimmer. Percula did have micro bubbles on her all day
<Also notable... summat to do with body slime>
today before she died. Is talk of micro bubbles just nonsense?
<Not at all>
They are literally everywhere and large bubbles are constantly rising up.
<From the substrate?>
Did add 2 peppermint shrimp just before Xmas. Could these have carried disease?
<Possibly, but unlikely>
Disease would not explain loss of crown on feather dusters. Unrelated problem?
<I am more and more suspecting something amiss in the environment period here>
Only other 'change' recently has been the raising of the calcium levels (375ppm/mg to 450 ppm/mg) and magnesium (800 ppm/ml to 1350ppm/mg). This was achieved by slowly adding tropic Marin bio calcium and bio magnesium and also some calcium chloride.
<Through dissolved... water changes I do hope... NOT added directly to the water>
Could high levels of chloride ions cause a problem?
<It could>
I read that seawater naturally contains a lot of chloride ions, so this is unlikely.
<CaCl2 can be problematic... in effects of shifting bicarbonate ions.>
I suspect that dilution and some water changes are the best way forward
<Agreed>
but I am lost at the moment as to what could have gone wrong. To be honest, until I know, I don't want to add any more fish.
<Also agreed>
Any help appreciated before my tank becomes an inverts only tank!!
Richard
<A few scenarios can be suggested that fit your observations... About the simplest, perhaps the more useful, is to imagine that the stress of changes (supplementing mostly) going on here resulted in "upset" to your stinging-celled life... that in turn poisoned your fish stock... making them slimier (the bubbles sticking to their sides), but not harming the Mandarin/Dragonet... as it is very slimy to begin with, and much less subject to the "poisoned effects" of the Cnidarians... I would do as you suggest, seek redress through successive serial dilutions here... NOT add more livestock for a few weeks to months... And consider moving out the BTA here... it is really misplaced in such a volume with the other Classes mentioned. Oh, please read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Coral questions... example of garden variety Cnidarian plunking...   12/26/08 I am already addicted to this hobby. It's been about a year now since my first tank which I bought established and stocked. My first take was transferred and upgraded many times and I learned the hard way how <Better by far to learn from others errors, and trials...> to do things and how not to do things. I have never done things as I should <Can see this by the photos...> or as recommended and have eventually found success on my own terms. I have only recently found your site. I have at this point transferred an entire tank into a new one overnight with no losses. Last time I had a few losses, but it was very minimal, one blue Linckia starfish, one bubble coral, and one Ricordea mushroom, everything else survived and is flourishing. Here is my question, my tank is reaching over stocked territory and I don't want to lose anything. I also want to add more, so now I am thinking of setting up a second smaller tank and want your suggestions of what could stay in this tank and what could/should be moved to the new tank. <... all posted> Here's what I still want to add, a large plate coral, a carpet anemone with a percula clown fish. <... no> Here is what I currently have in a 65 gallon tank, Goby Firefish, Scooter blenny, several mushrooms colonies (very happy), <They're "winning" here in this menagerie... most all else is losing> blue zoos, 2 flower anemones, <Badly bleached... need to be removed to elsewhere> one long tentacle (tube, I believe) anemones, <This too> yellow button polyps, a rock coral? (hard rock?), <Please consider getting, using a notebook to keep track of your purchases, records...> 2 feather dusters, blue anthelia, a colt coral, green star polyps, and purple polyps?, about 12-15 hermit crabs, most babies, about 5 Cerith snails, most babies, one turbo snail, and two other kinds of snails, about 5-7 more total, a anemone crab, an emerald crab. All has been happy for quite some time. <? Not from appearances in your images> Running a skimmer/refugium, one powerhead, one whisper 30 hang on back filter with carbon, , an air bubbler, 3 heaters with a stable temp of 80 degrees. and 430 watts of lights, t-5 with 21 watts 10,000k, 21 watts of actinic blue, coral life compact fluorescents, 96 x 2 10,000k, and 96 x 2 blue actinic, also running two moonlights in back. I am ready to hear an experts opinion on what I should or should not do from here. <Start back from go... Put some time... less money, into buying livestock... You could "build" something out of the diminished life you have already... with chemical filtrant use, likely ozone... and much better placement... You really need to READ re the systems, compatibility, and likely nutrition of what you have plunked about here> I would also like to add another starfish again. I would love another blue Linckia, but I know they are difficult to keep at best and I know you'll advise against that. <Ahh! You have been doing some reading> I'll enclose some pictures, not the best quality, but if you want to see something up close just ask and I can try and send better ones. <Are you given to careful, quiet study of a topic you're interested in? You state your addiction in the first line... If so, you really need to completely re-think, perhaps re-orient yourself to the possibility of what you propose and currently have... I would start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and go through the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Ker plunk!

Re: Coral questions 12/27/08 Bob, thank you for your reply. I have been reading your site for awhile. I am wishing you could be more specific about what is not doing well. The anemones were purchased that bleached color, they did not end up that color as a result of my tank. <I see... they should be moved elsewhere nonetheless> Should I remove the mushrooms in your opinion. I am very concerned about doing this right from here and have been reading a lot as of late. Can you give me a more detailed opinion of what you think is not doing well in my tank and what I should get rid of? Thank you so much! Aaron <Mmm, the "rest" could stay in the same system... given a bit of rearrangement... and understanding of principles reading where you were referred to. B> Re: Coral questions 12/27/08 So, the mushroom colonies need to go, but everything else could stay, given proper spacing? Thank you so much, still reading.... Aaron <... The mushrooms don't need to go... you need to read... Stop writing... B> Re: FW: Coral questions 12/27/08 Also in your opinion, can you tell me what looks to be suffering in my tank? Everything looks well to me, goes to show I have a lot to learn. Thank you, Aaron <...>

Allelopathy question 12/24/08
Hey guys, happy holidays to you all.
<Hello! Benjamin here, having a very happy holiday...this response brought to you by Winter Break, Luther College>
I have a question about allelopathy, or suspected allelopathy anyway. <Beautiful>
I am always hesitant to write you guys because I feel like if I just keep looking a little harder on the site I could find the answer. But after looking for a while eventually I cave and well, here I am...
<It happens. There is a lot of information to sift through>
I have a 40 breeder with the following parameters- Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate- 0 pH 8.2, Salinity 1.027, Calcium 380, KH 178, RO water, 78 degrees, Millennium 3000 HOB filter, AquaC remora skimmer. 60 lbs live rock, 50 lbs live sand. I also have 2 Koralia 3's moving water around.
Lighting is Dual Actinic Satellite, which bulbs are just shy of a year old. 5 gallon water change every other week, and fed every night with a mix of Mysid and pellets.
Currently in terms of corals I have in there, 2 medium frogspawns (branching), 1 head of torch, 1 hammer (branching), one fairly large bubble, a Lemnalia, a small colony of Red Sea Xenia, 3 polyps of Duncans, a pagoda, a rock with a small number of yellow polyps on it, a smallish Trachyphyllia, and 5 very small zoo frags, and one rock with about 4 hairy mushrooms on it. I know it sounds tight but every coral has at least 5 inches around it.
<A potentially toxic mix, though>
The bubble has been doing great, but the Euphyllias never have really opened up all the way. But since the addition of the mushrooms and polyps and zoos (coincidental timing?) they aren't really opening, and I have been steadily losing polyps on them. They are seemingly fine one day, and then they close up, and have a long blue/black stringy type mucus on it, and then the poly starts to fall off in pieces and then the remaining stony toothy bit sometimes gets covered in the stuff. I have lost 6 polyps in 2 weeks. The whole process takes 24 hours or so.
<Hmm...something is actively killing these- this does not sound like starvation, but disease or poisoning>
Additionally my Lemnalia is no longer opening up to the huge piece it was a few weeks ago. It also looks like it is shedding, or something as there is a brownish stringy (not mucus) coming off of it. And the Duncans don't open all the way and on the occasion they do they don't stay open.
Could the Mushrooms be causing this? I saw on a post that enough toxin in the tank can even effect fish, and recently one of my Ocellaris hasn't been acting itself. It's just been hanging out near the bottom instead of asserting it's dominance all over the tank.
I don't know what to do and I am really frustrated. I am trying really hard to provide a good home for these guys and they are dying and I don't know what to do. If it's not Allelopathy, and not crab or fish (no crabs) and the water quality is decent, what else could it be?
<Frightening to consider>
I keep going back to a post I saw where Bob sort of chastised a writer for having a reef that was 'devoid of life'. When I look at my tank I can see it going that way. That is why I am writing, I am really hoping you can help me figure this out before the whole thing goes south...
<Ben, I can tell you a couple of things: Number one, if you haven't already start using a good amount of carbon as triage care. Second, that I have an aquarium that is "devoid" right now; it has mixed species, genera, the works. I know some people get away with it and it looks great, but there are triggers we can't control and things we can't test for without enzymatic assays. The only thing I know that guarantees success is a single-species tank....it doesn't look too impressive sometimes, but carefully planned Euphylliid or mushroom tanks can be stunning. Compromises can be made between relatively docile species...in short, you have a lot of different things in a fairly small space. If you know when things were last working, try taking out the mushrooms (QT, LFS...) and see if it improves. If not, consider what else to try.>
Thanks in advance for any insight you might have. Best of holidays to you and yours!
<Also keep in mind the mushrooms may start an 'arms race'...they poison first and everyone goes nuts, a downward spiral. One addition might start the problem, it might take several removals to end it...wish I could give a more concrete solution.>
Ben
<Seasons best, Benjamin>

Question about frogspawn, coral stocking, and Clownfish.
Allelopathy potential poster circumstances   12/11/08
Hey Guys,
<And ladies too...>
I've searched far and wide on your site, I've been using it for ages now, and once again I have to say thanks so much for everything you guys all do!
There is a real wealth of information here, and I've turned more than a few friends who are just getting into the hobby to this site. Apparently they think I'm an expert or something after less than a year of reefkeeping.....
<Heeee! You are>
that makes me laugh out loud, when I realize how much there is to learn about this hobby and ALL of the mistakes I`ve made. And thus I point them to the more knowledgeable!
Anyways, I`ll give you the details about my set-up first.
Standard 29 Gallon tank, has been running for about 9 months. 35 lbs of live rock, with good coralline growth, also on the glass, (and some really cool flaking/encrusting dark red coralline, on everything.... looks really neat)
A Prizm Red Sea skimmer, with a box in the outlet flow area for active carbon.
Converted hang on the back filter for some mechanical filtration.
2 Small powerheads for even more water movement, pointing at each other towards the middle to get some good turbulent flow. Also a small heater to regulate temperature.
I run active carbon in both the skimmer box and the hang on filter, rotating each bag out after every two weeks, so each bag (2tsp of carbon each) is in for a month.
I do 5 gallon water changes every week and a half to 2 weeks, and I let the water aerate with a powerhead in a bucket for 24 hours before adding it, with some light siphoning of the substrate. I`ve tested the saltwater for phosphate and nitrates, and it`s negative for both. I use R/O water for top ups and changes. I use Seachem Reef buffer with some of the water changes occasionally, but the pH has been pretty stable. Also add a Kent trace mineral supplement once every two weeks.
I feed the fish a mix of New Life Spectrum flakes, Mysis shrimp, and Cyclops. Also some Nori. I've also just bought some assorted seafood (Mussel, Squid, Mysis and Brine Shrimp), and will be mixing these into blocks for freezing after I've thawed and drained off all the nasty murky juice they packed it with, so the fish will have more variety now. Also some vegetable/Nori flakes for the angel. I just started soaking the foods in Zoecon (I'm thinking kind of like Selcon, but not sure) before feeding.
They mostly get flakes every day, supplemented every second day with all the meaty foods above. LPS Corals get fed every couple days.
Water Chem - Ammonia - 0.00, Nitrates almost 0, Phosphates 0.05. pH 8.3, Specific gravity 1.025, Alkalinity is in the normal range of the test kit, and Calcium is 400-450ppm.
Critters: Two false percula clowns (one is a notably larger, dominant female, the other clown twitches when she swims close)
A coral beauty angel (still very small, and I know inappropriate for the tank, I'm planning on getting a bigger tank (150ish) in the next year or so so this guy will be happier).
A purple Firefish (neon goby)
A fire shrimp
Cleanup crew consisting of 2 turbo snails, one scarlet hermit, three small blue legged hermits, about 20 or so Nassarius snails, and two weird looking slugs, with soft looking shells, one jet black and one white... came in with some coral, don't know what they are.
Corals, I have a white bubble coral, about 4 inches across. Also a branching frogspawn, colt coral, 2 open brains, and then a whole bunch of mushrooms and button polyps, all variety of colors, and a green star polyp colony.
The corals are all doing pretty good, they open well, and are not physically touching one another. The big pink open brain I bought was not doing too well, and I tried 'rescuing him' from the store....
<Mmm, I would not add any more/new Cnidarians here... in this small,
established system... too great a chance of them "not getting along">
he wasn't eating at first, but now he is, and has regained a lot of his color.... a really beautiful coral. Like I said earlier, I feed the LPS corals once ever two days or so at night. The white bubble coral ejects a stringy brown mucus every few days, for the last week or two.
Okay now for problems....
Since I added the colt coral (it's the latest coral I've added, as I heard it is fairly toxic/aggressive and wanted to add it last), the dominant female clownfish has started hovering around the frogspawn, and poking her head in and 'nipping' at it.
<Likely trying to establish a bond... Clownfishes will develop symbiotic relations with Euphyllias... among other non-anemone hosts>
She doesn't bite bits off, it looks like she just pokes around in there, but the coral is clearly distressed and retracted, though it has yet to jettison any mucus like stuff. I think maybe it's a dietary deficiency, which is why I just got all the new food and feeding methods etc, to try and add some spice to their diet (before it was just flakes and mysis shrimp, with some Cyclops). Is there any other reason she would do this?
<See above...>
She doesn't seem to want to host in it, she sleeps in the opposite corner of the tank from it, and the male clown rests himself on a bed of button polyps, though during the day while she hovers around it (facing it the whole time) she'll chase away other fish.
<Woe to them if these two reproduce... no "room to run/hide" here>
Other problems are more minor, there is one green mushroom, with little bumps on it, that seems to be burning run of the mill blue mushrooms next to it. Its not a Ricordea, or a hairy mushroom, but it has more texture then the smoother blue ones around it... do the different colors of mushrooms generally coexist?
<Mmm, can, yes... once again, if "accustomed" to each other...>
Also on a happier note, two of the striped mushrooms I have are splitting off foot processes, which appear to be growing into new mushrooms.... really cool! The only other problem I have is every morning the sand is white, but by evening there is a brown layer that looks like diatoms which disappears by morning. Am I overfeeding?
<Mmm, not likely... natural succession...>
That's pretty much it, I can`t begin to say how much I appreciate the help you guys have given me already, you`re an invaluable resource. My tank and myself have both gained so much knowledge from this site, it wouldn`t be nearly as nice now if not for you, so thanks!
Eric
<I'd be speeding up the process of acquiring that larger system... and keeping steady with the regimen of maintenance you detail... Your system is doing about all it can/should do, given all you list... but you could have a catastrophic cascade event... with the Cnidarians... perhaps triggered by the female Clown's behavior... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Question about frogspawn, coral stocking, and Clownfish.  -12/11/08
Allelopathy potential poster circumstances
Hello again Bob!
<Eric>
Thanks again for the swift reply. I definitely agree, not much more going into this tank, except maybe some little button polyps if i can find some cool ones, or a mushroom or two... but for the most part, I'm just going to let it grow. I was worried about allelopathy too, the mushrooms don't extend as much in the last two days, or the bubble coral. Also the frogspawn but that's from the clownfish. I changed some of the carbon, did a water change, and we'll see what happens....
<Good moves>
everybody else looks good. I also forgot to mention the clam I have ( a small blue crocea) he is doing alright, though
hasn't opened fully in the last day or two either. I'm hoping that adding the colt coral didn't push my system over the limit...time will tell I guess. Thanks for your input though, much appreciated as always.
Eric
<Welcome... am hoping Santa won't strain his/her back with the new big tank under the tree... BobF>

Allelopathy to fish??   12/10/08
Dear crew,
Once again, thanks so much. I have spent days reading through stuff on your site and it had helped educate me.
<Welcome Dave>
One person named Marc wrote in on 05/13/2006 and asked:
> Also do the toxins released by the softies have any impacts on the fish in the tank
Adam J responded:
> <None of concern.>
to which Bob countered:
<<Mmm, actually... can be of great concern. RMF>>
I was wondering if you could expound on that, please. I'm especially concerned with allelopathy with mushrooms, xenia, leathers, and Zoanthids. I was sold by LFS on these by having been told they are "hardy," without any mention of allelopathy. I didn't see much about that until I came upon this site and a few other forums.
Thanks.
Dave
<There are known compounds, particularly of the huge class of terpenoids, that these and other Cnidarian groups produce that are known to be toxic to fishes...
Do try this string: "Cnidarian terpenoid toxicity to fish" in your search engine/s. Bob Fenner>

Demise of soft, LPS Corals      11/19/08
Hello, I have been viewing your site for about 3-4 yrs now. I usually get all my info from reading articles, FAQ's and such. This time I'm stumped! I have a 65g reef tank with softies, some LPS. My inverts are a green brittle star, pincushion urchin, longspined black urchin, sand sifter star, fire shrimp, blue sponge, small hermits, Nassarius snails and a few uninvited bristle worms. My finned friends are a yellow streaked wrasse, powder blue tang, percula clown, 1 blue devil and 1 yellow tailed damsel. I have about 30lbs of live rock in display and 20lbs in place of the bio-balls in a 3 and 1 trickle. I use a venturi protein skimmer, carbon, poly filter, 2 powerheads plus a rotating powerhead and a dual output return. My lighting is a Coralife 48in 65x4. 2 10k daylights, 2 actinic's plus lunars run daylights 8 hrs. and the blues 12 hrs. Nitrates < 30, ca 400ppm, pH 8.4, phosphates are high at 1.0ppm when I know it should be .03 or less. I haven't check other parameters. Temp is between 77-79F. I don't have chiller. In the summer it has risen to 82-83F and dropped to 79F, 2-3 degrees fluctuation. Now it is consistent. I haven't changed my bulbs in about two years. Sometimes I get my water from two different LFS. One claims it's Catalina water form here in California. The other claims Scripps Institute in San Diego. I have been doing 20g water changes for 4 years every 2-3 wks with the correct temperature. Sometimes I buy the water a week before I change the tank. the water sits in the garage without aeration for about a week.
<This is fine... preferable to using "fresh">
The thing is that I've had these same husbandry techniques for the past 4 years and never had a problem. In 1 month I have lost a colt coral, candy cane, a 4year old torch, mushrooms and a brain. I'm still hanging on to one brain and one branch of the torch. Fish are fine! Inverts are fine!
what's going on?
<My best guess... the sponge or something on/with the live rock is poisoning the Cnidarians>
I'm thinking about getting metal halides and getting some clams. Where should I go from here?
<Mmm, a larger system for sure... more damsels of the species listed
(they're social animals), care in introducing, mixing in other stinging-celled life. Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above till you understand...>
Tell me how to fix my problem. Also let met know if current livestock is compatible with tridacnids. Thank you, your knowledge is appreciated.
Larry.
<I would fix your present situation (likely move the Sponge out), take the bio-balls out... make sure your phosphate is under control... for a few months before adding the Tridacnids here. Bob Fenner>

LPS budding 8/18/08
Hello Crew
<Howdy>
I trawled through the encyclopaedic info on your site, but find nothing specific to this query below.
My grape coral
<Plerogyra... a Euphylliid>
appears to be putting out fluorescent buds. This happens every 3 months or so, and most often the buds just float off to be picked up in the filtration or swept into the live rock etc.
<Mmm, yes>
Occasionally what happens is the buds land up in the 2 large hairy mushrooms in the vicinity (about 4" inches away) and this appears to cause them a fair degree of stress.
<Oh yes>
They contract to about an 8th of full extension, and appear to remain so until the bud is expelled. While this is happening the parent LPS also appears to be in a slightly shrunken state for some reason.
<In a word: Allelopathy>
I also noticed my maroon clown, usually happy in his Entacmaea quad. go up to the LPS and give it a buffet, dislodging a couple more of these offending buds. I should note that the LPS is also reproducing via a couple of new colonies at the base of the branches....could not understand the clown's contribution there, though!!
<Me neither. Interesting>
Any insights would be hugely appreciated.
Best regards
Mani
<I do think you're witnessing a sort of asexual reproduction... I would try to remove such buds ASAPractical once they're about to be released. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: LPS budding  10/22/08
Hi Mr. Fenner
A privilege to be communicating with you.
<Howsit?>
Just continuing the conversation below, I observed something totally bizarre. To refresh, I mentioned below how the spine-cheeked clown occasionally went and buffeted the grape/ frogspawn coral, releasing these buds/ polyps, which drifted into the hairy mushroom and irritated it severely.
<Yes... too common a/the case twixt Premnas and their erstwhile Cnidarian symbionts>
Today the clown went a step further. I actually saw it bite off a polyp - from the same LPS colony - and release it into the water column, where it drifted off to oblivion.
<Mmmm>
(It could not be doing this to defend its BTA, as I placed a large barrier of rock between the two, and actually moved the stricken mushroom to another system where it is thriving). No other invertebrates seem to be affected at this stage.
<Is a danger...>
I just found this quite curious, and given its infrequency (so far!) have decided to observe further without action at this stage. Would you be able to shed some light on this?
<Have noted and recorded others/similar observations re Maroons... they can be very hard on other life...>
I am just wondering if the clown was the original cause of the problem, rather than "primary" allelopathy as originally suspected.
<Could well be the real/root cause here. If it t'were me, mine, I'd separate these two... the Clown, Euphyllia>
Best regards
Mani (Auckland, NZ)
<And to you, BobF>

MH HQI replacing PC's? And Cnid. incomp. non-action  – 10/02/08
Hello there!
I have a real quick question on lighting that's pretty unique, hoping for your suggestions. It's that time again to change my MH HQI lamps and PC's (been 12 months). Currently the set up is two HQI 150 watts and two 96 PC actinics (Aqualight Pro) on a 90 gallon (48 x 18 x 24) that have recently been converted to a predominantly SPS tank mixed in with some LPS's. SPS's are in the middle to upper half of the tank and LPS dominates the lower portion of the tank with many Acans and Blastos.
Now to my question, I have began noticing 70 watt HQI's in the market recently and I am wondering if I could replace my PC's with those to be used for supplemental lighting, I'd probably use a 20,000K bulb. Well first off, is my current set up sufficient for SPS corals?
<Mmm... IF these were "elevated", placed "higher up" closer to the lights... likely perched on rocks or such, yes>
Second, I think a 70 watt MH HQI will penetrate much deeper than a 96 watt actinic PC
<Mmm, am not such a fan of actinics period... they don't do much functionally. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/lighting/actinicfaqs.htm>
plus I save some money on the monthly electricity bills! What do you think? Would this be a realistic option, using a 70 watt 20,000K as SUPPLEMENTAL lighting?
<Mmm, yes, or even principal...>
Oh and one more, sorry, I know I said one quick question! My Micromussa accidentally came in contact with my Torch Coral recently (thanks to a very mobile Fighting Conch), and most of it has disintegrated within 8 hours. I checked it the morning and they were fine until I came home from work. There are maybe one or two heads they weren't affected, should I cut them off from the disintegrated meat or just leave it alone?
<I'd leave as is (though re-separated of course),... it may well be that the "empty", "melted-off" heads will be repopulated in time>
Thank you for any assistance you can provide!
Jay
<Welcome Jay. Bob Fenner>

Re: MH HQI replacing PC's? – 10/02/08
Thanks for the quick reply!
<... welcome>
So would just the two HQI 150 watt 10,000K be sufficient for the SPS (perched on rocks from one foot below surface to near surface)?
<Mmm, yes>
My plan is to create a dusk to dawn effect by turning on the two 96 watt actinics and then turning then off when the MH come on. then midway through the day have another two 70 watt MH come on.
What do you think? Is this light sufficient?
<... Is, in terms of photonic strength>
Thanks again!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Cabbage Coral Problem…Chemical Aggression? – 09/23/08 Hello, <<Greetings>> I am having a problem with my cabbage coral. It is constantly shedding. <<Mmm…>> I say constantly because every other day one half of it is shedding and on the other days the other half is. <<I see… Although this is how this coral sheds irritants, metabolites, and keeps from being overgrown my nuisance alga it should not be doing so on an almost continual basis as you describe…very taxing for the coral>> It very seldom is all beautiful and not shedding. I'll post pics so you can see. <<I see the picture…and judging by the condition of the surrounding rock I’m doubting nuisance alga is the problem…more likely the issue here is allelopathy>> I have a Colt in the tank on the bottom and was told that it may be irritating the Cabbage (chemical warfare). <<Ah yes! (the aforementioned allelopathy)…you also have some very noxious Palythoa in this mix as evidenced by the photo>> I moved the Cabbage up in the tank but no change. <<Short of moving the coral to another system, there will be no change. Moving the coral around in the tank in no way alleviates the allelopathy. These organisms can detect chemical elements down to ppm…even ppb. While sharing the same tank water, all your corals are very aware of each other’s presence and will continue to fight/compete for space in the relatively small volume>> I added Chemi-Pure to the sump to help with any toxins, still no difference. <<This alone is not enough…or likely, the volume of Chemi-Pure is not enough/used up very rapidly. The Chemi-Pure is an excellent product and of benefit to your system overall, but a more effective long-term strategy may be to increase the volume of the system by adding or increasing the size of a sump and/or refugium and increasing the frequency of your partial water changes. Employing a quality skimmer (if not already) can also help. And while chemical filtration is also of use, a more economical long-term approach here may be to employ regular carbon in a small canister filter. Just a cup or so of carbon, removed/changed out once a week, will also help>> Is there anything you can think of? <<As stated…and you may also need to consider reducing the stocking density of your tank as a further means of “diluting” the problem>> Here are the tank water parameters; Alk = 11 dKH, Calc = 400 ppm, <<Mmm, both towards the high end…and quite unnecessarily so re the livestock you mention/visible in the picture. Have you read here?: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm >> Mag = 1380, Nitrate = 0, Phosphate = 0, Temp = 80 degrees and SG = .025. <<Regards, EricR>>

Chemical Reactions Between SPS and Soft Corals – 08/13/08
Thanks for all of your exceptional help.
<<Happy to share>>
As I recall I have read about chemical reactions between SPS and soft coral neighbors.
<<Mmm, yes…is referred to as allelopathy…and more commonly known to/referred to among those keeping terrestrial plants. But the basics of the definition serve the same here…”the inhibition of growth by chemicals produced by another species”... Though I think this can be expanded for aquarists to include more than limiting growth but also causing the “demise” of organisms…and that such negative interactions can even be between individuals of the “same species” in some cases>>
I have a 330g tank with quite a few frags of SPS corals. I have made somewhat of an attempt to put SPS corals on one side of my tank and soft corals, polyps on the other.
<<I want to note here that these organisms can detect substances in parts-per-million, even parts-per-billion ratios. If you have disparate organisms in the same tank, you can be sure they are aware of each other’s presence (and doing battle); regardless of how far apart they are positioned. I’m not saying the physical separation isn’t a good thing or isn’t warranted as it may help reduce the “level” of aggression…I just want to make it clear that physical separation does not stop aggression, and that chemical fighting has no “boundaries” within closed systems as all is reached and affected as the elements are moved/carried through the water column>>
However, we do have a few areas of overlap in which polyps/soft corals come within 4-8" of a SPS coral.
<<This physical separation is fine…what needs to be considered is the overall “volume” of disparate species. In other words, a large volume of chemically noxious polyps and soft corals will have a greater overall effect on a small volume of much less noxious Acropora species than if the volume/bio-mass were reversed>>
These polyps/soft corals do not have full tentacle extension and have never looked great. My SPS corals all look fantastic and growing.
<<Hmm…it is highly unlikely in my estimation that the polyps/soft corals are being malaffected by the SPS directly (generally the case is just the opposite). I think it likely that either the polyps and soft corals are too close to/malaffecting each other…or there is an environmental condition like water flow or lighting that is not to their liking>>
Water params are excellent,
<<This tells me nothing mate>>
lighting is within 18-20" of 1600watts metal halides.
<<Mmm, a lot of light... Do review your placement of your organisms re>>
Could this be because of interactions between the corals or is the fact they are close to each other a coincidence?
<<It’s impossible to say without more than the very general organism descriptions of “polyps and soft corals” along with more descriptive data about your system (water flow, water chemistry, et al) and the placement of these organisms from each other and within the tank in relation to the other environmental elements. My best guess here is that the malaffected organisms are too close/physically touching, or there are issues with water flow or lighting. From what you describe, I don’t believe the SPS corals themselves to be a factor>>
Best,
Bryan
<<Regards, EricR>>

Confused about coral stocking... Boris Karloff-ing to intro. new Cnid.s to Shrooms   7/23/08
Hi Crew,
<Mike>
I presently have a 54 Gallon reef tank with sump filtration, Deltec MCE 600 skimmer, 2 Koralia #2 power heads, and 130W PC lighting, 50 lbs. LR, and 40 lbs. LS. I also run Rowaphos and Carbon in the skimmer.
<In the skimmer?>
The system has been up for 10 months. Soon I'll be switching to a 24 " TX5 Aquatinic lighting system. Residents are a sixline wrasse, royal Gramma, 2 false percs, and a banner cardinal.
<Likely a Banggai>
Inverts include 3 emerald crabs,
<Watch these Mithraculus>
5 Mexican turbo snails, 4 Nassarius snails. Present tank parameters are as follows: Sp. G. 1.025, Ph. 8.11, Ammonia- 0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate-<2, Phosphate- 0.3, Calcium-429, Alk- 3.45 mg/l, Magn- 1260. I perform 20% h2o changes per week with RO/DI.
<All this reads good>
I have quite a few Discosoma growing in the tank that came in on the LR. I've always liked the mushrooms and have added some different types over the course of the year including a colony of Rhodactis and other Discosoma.
<Do keep these isolated... on their own rocks...>
At one point I added a Sarcophyton, which quickly displayed signs of burning and was removed from the system.
<A loser to the Corallimorphs>
I would like to know, given my modest lighting system and tank size, where I can obtain information regarding an appropriate stocking plan.
<Mmmm, don't know exactly what you mean... but as far as I'm aware there is no clear cut, "this goes and this doesn't" sort of database. At best what we have presently are "guesses"/opinions re some likelihood that a given mix will get along in a set of circumstances...>
From reading the WWM FAQs it would appear that not much at all can live close to corallimorphs.
<Correct... part. if they are well-established first>
I've read various books (e.g.. Borneman), and it would appear that zoas, GSP, Cladiella, Alcyonium, Lobophytum, etc., might be compatible with my lighting, tank size, and beginner status, but would certainly have difficulties with the mushrooms. Am I sort of stuck with a mushroom species tank?
<To extents, yes... but you could easily try "acclimating" new Cnidarians to the present set-up and vice versa... introducing them over weeks time of mixing water back/forth through another/isolation system...>
That's OK for me with so many different colors, types, etc. but will different colonies of mushrooms engage in chemical warfare? I see a lot of pictures on various websites with tanks loaded with softies and corallimorphs that look great; I put a toadstool in my tank with a few mushroom colonies (although well established) and the poor thing nearly burst into flames. Any help, ideas, references are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Mike
<Please read my ppt. pres. outline here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above, until you understand the concept. Bob Fenner>

Re: Confused about coral stocking   7/23/08
Thanks, Bob. Quick follow up question. I do typically QT new additions in a smaller system using water from the display. With the method you proposed to acclimate new corals into my system, are you also suggesting that I introduce water from the holding system into the display system that already contains the corallimorphs as well?
<Yes, definitely so... each will "get to know the other" in this fashion... result in much diminished allelopathic behavior>
Also, yes the MCE 600 has a chamber to hold media to hold Rowa, etc. I was concerned that the flow rate may be too
high for the Rowaphos, but I haven't noticed any increase in phosphate from when I used to run it in a small canister filter (maybe flow rate was too high in that as well!).
<Well... you do mention having sufficient detectable phosphate... I would not be concerned re it or the media use here>
Thanks again for your help,
Mike
<Glad to assist you, BobF>

Cnidarian chemical warfare 07/22/2008
To WWM crew,
<<Good afternoon Steve, Andrew today>>
I have been reading your site for awhile now (best site for info!)
occasionally writing in asking questions and using the advice given.
This is going to be a statement more than a question.
I woke up this morning to find all of my fish deceased in my reef tank. What happened? I'm pretty sure it was Cnidarian poisoning. You see I wrote in to you (WWM) about a yellow tang that wasn't doing very well (I had added around 4 different types of LPS corals all at once, and had no chemical filtration to speak of).
Robert Fenner wrote me back explaining about what happens in a situation like this, and what to do. So after reading everything that he told me to read, I added the chemical filtration.
Unfortunately, it was too late, my yellow tang passed despite my efforts. However, the rest of my tank did quite well afterwards. So well, that I thought the danger was over, so I added a more fish and they did well also. Then, this Saturday an LFS was having a grand opening sale in which they had a ton of stuff (really nice stuff on sale). So being the fish geek that I am, could not pass a couple of things up. One was a swallow tail angel (beautiful) and another was a green bubble tip anemone, very healthy.
One thing that I need to mention is that this fish store does it's own quarantine, over two weeks, everything that I have received from them has been top notch. So I did not bother to quarantine them myself.
I got these Two items home acclimated them over several hours and placed them in my tank. Everybody was doing great, even yesterday (Sunday) everything was great. Everyone should know that what I did was risky, placing a very powerful stinging Cnidarian, a mobile one for that matter, in a tank with a bunch of other cnidarians.
I was so confident that the filtration that I had in place would work that I got cocky. What I did not count on was a hermit crab getting stuck in the intake tubing basically blocking it almost entirely. He must have gotten stuck after I went to bed. Over the next several hours the warfare that was happening in my tank killed everybody.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that no matter how much you think you know, or how bullet proof you think your system is, don't think your above Mother Nature. These corals and anemones and everything else you put in your tank mean business, this is not a dress rehearsal for them. It was an expensive, painful lesson for me. Thank you guys for web site, and all your combined years of experience.
Kind Regards, Steve Harris, Arvada CO.
<<Steve. Your experiences, although tragic, do and can serve as a warning to what can actually happen, due to the random nature of our inhabitants, namely the crab who got stuck in the intake and blocked the pipe. The knock on effect is the lack of filtration for the display tank. It raises the question, if my filtration was not blocked and chemical warfare ensued in the tank, would this of been adverted? Am sure you have been asking yourself this question. On the whole, the answer would more than likely be a yes. Maybe future overflows will be protected by egg crate, or a meshing material to stop future errant crabs / snails from trying to go on vacation down to the sump. Thank you for writing in to us to share / pass on your experiences, short stories such as this are invaluable to us aquarists. Good luck with the re-building of the reef. A Nixon>>

Re: Bristle Worm Execution – 06/28/08
Thanks for the advice...
<<I hope it was useful>>
I find I need to ask another question about the same issue....
<<Ask away>>
It's bad enough to find an eight-inch coral-eating fireworm (Shimek/Marine Invertebrates/p. 225) in your reef tank, but when you discover another one, well... They've eaten the anchor, the frogspawn, and the torch. We thought we were losing the corals to brown jelly at first, but there really wasn't any jelly. Never even considered it may be a worm problem, as (most) bristleworms are our friends.
<<Indeed…encountering problematic specimens/species is rare (considering)>>
It was all a mystery until we saw the first worm I mentioned in my previous email, completely exposed on the sand bed in front of the tank. Easy to net!
<<Hmm, not usually this bold/careless…are generally cryptic in their behavior in my experience. Perhaps this one was already dying>>
This one was just so huge and not the skinny red ones that we are used to seeing peeking out of the rockwork. We thought Fireworms were red or orange.
<<Not always (many species), as you have discovered>>
This one has a grey body and doesn't look so dangerous.
<<This is variable as well…though none should ever be “handled” with bare hands>>
After we looked it up in Shimek and saw what their diet was, it became all too clear what had really been going on.
<<Kudos to you on the research…>>
They are now suspected of also devouring a perfectly healthy crocea clam.
<<Would certainly “clean it up”…but may not have been the reason for its demise>>
Gosh, if they've been spawning!! Yikes!
<<This is a possibility I suppose. But I don’t think it is as probable as with the more “common” smaller detritivores we’re used to seeing>>
With the tank now devoid of fresh fleshy things, what would be the most enticing entree we can use for bait?
<<Any meaty seafood should suffice>>
I read that meaty foods in a stocking/net is the way to capture errant worms; however, the remaining worm doesn't seem so anxious to eat the krill we've been using in the trap for the past few days.
<<Catching these critters can be trying. It may just need to get “hungrier”…or maybe you need a better or bigger trap. A simple but effective trap can be manufactured easily enough from a plastic 2-liter soda bottle. Cut off the top third of the bottle and invert this and wedge/tape/glue/secure it in the bottom portion of the bottle creating a “funnel” leading in to the bottle (much like a “minnow trap” like you would find at a sporting goods store). Place some meaty food bits in the trap (if the krill isn’t working, try some shrimp, squid, or fish flesh from the supermarket), position the trap near the rockwork in your tank…and wait>>
Do they only eat live flesh?
<<Nope…will scavenge when hungry/preferred morsels are not available>>
What do you suggest we use as bait for Hermodice carunculata?
<<The krill should do it…but try the other options mentioned too>>
Thanks again!
Aviva G.
<<Good luck with your hunt! Eric Russell>>

Angels and Corals (It’s a Feedin’ Time!) – 06/26/08
Hello,
<<Howdy James>>
I have a 900 gallon system with fish, live rock.
<<Very nice…and I think I recall that we’ve conspired before re this system>>
I have tried various corals in the main tank to give the rocks some colour and interest.
<<Mmm…and likely not too successful re, depending on your piscine choices>>
Unfortunately, whatever I try my Queen Angel eats.
<<And this surprises you? [grin]>>
I then move the coral to another tank in the system where they are doing fine. She even started eating a carpet anemone
<<Again…should be no surprise>>
In the main tank I have one leather coral which she leaves for some reason as she munched on the others.
<<Perhaps this one is more noxious than the others>>
I also have six or seven different mushroom colonies. She ate all the red ones and left the rest.
<<Differences in palatability>>
So, my question is, is there any types of coral you think I could try that she will leave? I won't take her out as my fish always come first.
<<Few choices I think… You might try some very noxious Gorgonians as these are often left alone…some of the zooxanthellate species from the genus Pterogorgia maybe. And, you may find that Pachyclavularia (P. purpurea, P. violacea), also known as Green Star Polyps, taste bad enough not to be bothered either. But still…no certainties>>
Thank you,
James Barclay
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>

Possible Allelopathy – 6/02/08
Hello.
<Hello Allen, Brenda here! >
I'm a newbie to your website and am amazed by the information to be found. I discovered your site in searching for reasons for green star polyps permanently retracting. I quickly found the possible answer; the introduction of a finger leather (Devil's Hand) five days ago.
<How close do you have them to each other? >
I have long been aware of the incompatibilities associated with different species coming in direct contact but was not aware that sharing the same tank could be problematic.
<Sure can! >
I have a recently established (4 months) 210 gal tank w/ 40 gal refugium/sump, VHO lighting, skimmer, (cycled rock and sand from an old tank) and have been slowly adding various soft corals (GSP, mushrooms, pulsing xenia, colonial anemone). I had thought that the large tank, low stocking and focusing solely on soft corals (as your site recommends) would minimize problems and permit things to grow/develop to the point where contact would stop further growth. The introduction of the leather proved me wrong. Within 2 days the GSP retracted and has not reopened despite being separated by over 3 feet. And, the leather remains shriveled/limp.
<Is it getting any flow? >
Adding carbon to the filtration hasn't seemed to help. From your site I understand that the allelopathy/incompatibility with mushrooms can be a big problem as well.
<Yes, and also the green star polyps and leather coral. >
Some of the FAQs on your site suggest that GSP, mushrooms and leathers are OK as long as the don't come in contact or are spaced appropriately; others appear to suggest that their allelopathy is so strong that they cannot co-exist. So, I'm a bit confused.
<They can co-exist, however, you don’t want to overstock your tank with them. >
If I stay with soft corals am I better off eliminating the GSP or the leather, or both? Is it only a matter of time before the expansion of the mushrooms can have an allelopathic effect too, even without contact? Will the mere presence of these/any soft corals preclude me from introducing LPS corals at a later date even if there is sufficient space? Thank you for any suggestions you can provide.
<I’m not convinced that what you have is an allelopathic effect. Please send me a complete list of your water parameters and a complete list of your equipment and livestock. If you can, send me a picture of your tank. Have you quarantined your coral and inspected for pests? >
Allen
<Brenda >
 

SPS and a Giant Toadstool -05/13/08 Hello Crew, My question is about Toadstool leather and SPS compatibility. <...or lack there of?> I have a 180 (280 gallons total) with a lot of sps. I get good growth, but not great growth (although it may be because there are so many pieces growing and only so much calcium, even with the reactor) Ca levels are 400 to 420. <As long as you can maintain your calcium levels, Ca availability shouldn't be a problem.> I also have a large toadstool (12 inches+ around) in the center of my tank (Tank is 6 feet long) with 2 inch+ polyps which my gold striped maroon clown hosts in: See below <typical> I really love this leather, but I think I love sps more. I have heard some ppl say they aren't good together, and even that leather can emit a chemical which inhibits sps growth, <Yep, this is true.> but I don't think I have seen any ill effects (although I have had some browning of my sps at times. hmm). <Hmmm... but how would you know if you've seen ill effects or not? If you've never seen them without the leather, then you might not realise any ill effecta the leather is having.> I also run 2 phosphate and 1 carbon reactor and do weekly water changes of 25 gallons. <good> Looking for your thoughts because if it is even a possible issue for the sps, I will remove. <I think you should remove it if you want to do right by your sps. However, if you decide not to remove it, do run LOTS of activated carbon. This will help with the chemical warfare issues.> Thank you as always for your excellent advice! Mitch Philadelphia pa <De nada, Sara M. Cleveland, OH>

Re: SPS and a Giant Toadstool Thank you Sara. That was exactly the confirmation I was looking for. Bye bye Toadstool. <Cool. You should be able to find someone willing to take it if you don't have another system you could move it to.> I do have one more question. I also have a neon green Sarco leather, <Oy, those are even worse... probably the most toxic of the leather corals.> which is much smaller. (About 2X2). I am thinking that I may as well get rid of this one as well. Thoughts? <Yes, I agree. You might as well, especially considering it probably won't stay small for long anyway. ;-)> Thanks again, Mitch <My pleasure, Sara M.>

Leather Coral- Victim of Chemical Warfare? 05/10/08
Hi,
<Hey there! Scott F. in today!>
I bought a Toadstool Leather coral a few weeks ago, at first it looked fine out and happy. It's on a piece of rock with 2 mushrooms and polyp colony been that way it's whole life. When we put it in our 40 gal. tank it might of touch the mushrooms, because after a few days it got 2 (I would say burn) spots on the edge near the mushrooms. So we moved the rock so it wouldn't be touching, now at that time the coral was still coming out just not where the spots were. Well now it won't come out at all and it keeps excreting and looks alittle shrunken. I did take it out and smell it, it doesn't smell bad.(been reading) Everything else in tank looks great, Xenia, Mushrooms, Frog Spawn, polyps, hermit crabs,Purple Tang, Clownfish, Damsels, Sandsifting Star. Any idea on what could be hurting this leather coral? And if it does die how or should I take it out. Thank You, Kristy
<Hmm.. hard to say, but you did indicate that you have Frogspawn coal in there. This is a very aggressive coral, and doesn't even need to be touching the Leather to affect it in a negative way. I'd consider removing the Leather or the Frogspawn. May be as simple as that! Once removed from the source of irritation (well, really chemical "warfare" called allelopathy), your Leather should start to open once again, bigger and better than ever, unless it was seriously damaged. Sounds to me like it was not, so you've got a good chance of getting the coral to fully recover. If it does die, however, you'd be best advised to excise the coral from the rock by slicing it carefully with a sharp razor blade or knife. Best of luck to you! Regards, Scott F.>

Expert opinion . . . and suggestions - coral stocking/compatibility 5/10/08 Hello crew, <Greetings Charlie> I need a little bit of help again. By the way, give Mr. Fenner a great big thanx for me. <will pass that on> My previously 'severely obese goby' has managed to slim down just a bit. At least no longer looks like he will explode.  At any rate, I'd like to add more coral to my tank and need a little guidance. I've included a picture of the one and only coral I currently have. It's about 3" high, 4" wide, and moves quite nicely in the currents. I think it's a capnella. I was hoping you could confirm, and potentially add even more, if there is more (not sure exactly how this whole Latin scientific naming thing works). <Cladiella, Capnella, Lemnalia, and many other Octocorals are difficult to ID by a picture> I've read on your site how many corals are toxic to one another. I want to make sure I don't get anything incompatible with what I already have. If this is a capnella (or whatever it is), are there any corals that I must avoid? My most favored corals are in the LPS group (elegance, torch, galaxea, etc). These are all listed as having sweeper tentacles but nothing mentions chemical warfare. A few of the polyps also interest me - clove, starburst, anthelia. Most of these are listed as peaceful. <Faithful use of Granular Activated Carbon and water changes will solve chemical warfare issues> In time I want to add several more to the tank but it's a slow go - maybe 1 or 2 per year. For reference, we are speaking of a 155 gallon with about 180 lbs of LR. Spacing (sweeper tentacles taken into consideration) shouldn't be an issue since the tank is 6 ft long. I guess my main concern is the potential for chemical warfare. <See above. While we recommend stocking slowly, you can go faster than that if you choose.> Your site has mentioned numerous times that it's often best to stick with one type of coral, LPS, SPS, softs, etc. Though the ones I've mentioned above are from different groups, are they generally compatible? <LPS, SPS, and Softs are hobbyist terms. They don't exist in the scientific realm. As a general rule, it's best to not mix them. However, since you are taking into account sweepers and chemical warfare, I see no obvious problem with your favorites.> Your opinions and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as always. Thanx, Charlie <You are more than welcome.> <<Thanks Curt -Sara M.>>

Disappearing Mushroom and Ricordea Polyps – 04/14/08
I awoke this morning, looked into my tank, and to my horror I saw that all my coral polyps had been eaten.
<<…!>>
I had just put in my tank a red mushroom, a green Ricordea, and a blue/purple Ricordea within the past week. The livestock in my tank is as follows:
1 Yellow Tang
1 Tomato Clownfish
1 Lawn mower Blenny
3 Damsels
1 Neon Goby
! Coral Beauty Angelfish
10 Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
2 Turbo Snails
25 Cerith Snails
5 Scarlet Leg Hermit Crab
1 Condy Anemone
I thought all theses critters were reef safe.
<<Depends on your definition re…is a relative term, very few organisms are totally so>>
Checked again today on the internet to confirm my belief. Any ideas who the culprit could be?
<<Are you certain the Corallimorphs were eaten? Nothing you have listed comes to mind as being “fond” of the noxious organisms that you say are missing>>
I must also mention that the tank is 45 gallons.
<<Yeeikes!…much too small for the Tang and the Angel. If the polyps were truly eaten, then perhaps this was a manifestation of behavioral retardation by the Tang or Angel due to the too-small confines of the tank>>
I know a bit overstocked.
<<More than “a bit”>>
I have been trying to downsize by sacrificing the Damsels but they are hard to catch.
<<A better start would be to find a new home for the Tang>>
Could the overcrowding be a culprit as well?
<<Indeed>>
There appears plenty of stuff (algae, diatoms, etc.) for the inverts. I must also mention that I received a shipment (10 of the Cerith Snails and the Scarlet Leg Hermit Crabs) 36 hours ago from a reputable on-line source that I have used many times with no problems. Could be coincidental but the shipment may be the problem but I can't be sure.
<<The Cerith Snails are not the issue here. The Hermit Crabs are quite opportunistic, and if not well fed before/after acquisition……>>
I don't want to make this mistake again that's for sure. Any ideas?
<<A stated… But another thought…perhaps you have a nocturnal hitchhiker/predator. A Mollusk of some sort with a taste for Corallimorphs maybe. Seems strange the Polyps would disappear overnight without you noticing anything if the fishes were at fault>>
Thanks
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: Disappearing Mushroom and Ricordea Polyps – 04/14/08
Thanks for the response and your insight.
<<Very happy to share…>>
Overstocking of tank due to impulse buying wife.
<<Mmm, a dilemma indeed. You don’t want to dampen the enthusiasm/lose the buying power, yet……>>
I've tried to find an anti-wife alarm for my tank, haven't found one yet. Considering cutting her hands off!
<<Seems a bit drastic [grin]…perhaps some “shared” buying excursions (and some educating) instead. EricR>>

Cnid. compatibility with butterflies  3/30/08
Hi,
I went through the FAQs and articles in the website.
Not able to get a clear picture so asking you folks by email (Sorry for the trouble).
Can I keep the following inverts with butterflies?
1. Leather coral
2. Mushrooms
3. Sea Fan
4. Palythoa
5. cucumber
6. Xenia
7. Anything else I can keep?
<Sure, an ocean full>
I do know that LPS will be totally out but what of SPS like Acropora?
How many butterfly types can I mix in a 120 gal tank?
<Depends on the species... two-three>
Cheers
Ranjith
<And you! B>

Micromussa… Thoughts on Combating Allelopathy – 03/07/08
Hi Crew,
<Hi Sam, Mich here.>
I tried to get a picture but my Kodak just does not get it clear even when I use the setting that says it is for less than 27 inches away.
<Look for a "Macro" setting, the symbol often looks like a daisy or a flower.>
Anyway, I want to know if what I bought is in fact a Micromussa.
<Hard to say with out a photo.>
The person who sold it to me sent me a picture first
<How about this picture? Does it look more like this:
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=Micromussa&btnG=Search+Images
or more like this:
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=blastomussa&btnG=Search+Images >
but what I got does not look like the picture.
<Often the case, but does not necessarily mean deception is involved.>
But I do like it and just want to know.
<Is responsible to know the animal you are caring for.>
The polyps are smaller than a dime and are an orangey (no such word)
<Nope, but I understand what you are saying!>
tan color with the centers a brighter orange.
<OK.>
The tell tale sign of what this is, is what I saw this morning. I could see some tiny tentacles that I would not notice except that I was looking for it. And the mouth was not just a dot in the center as it usually is but was elongated like it had a nose shaped like a funnel sticking out about 1/8 of an inch (O>).
<Sounds like the tin man!>
On another topic, most tanks with corals have this chemical warfare going on.
<Mmm, I'd go as far as saying most tanks with coral have allelopathic issues!>
It would be nice if someone came up with a test to show it
<I suspect it would be similar to allergy testing, could be done, but doing it repeatedly isn't terrible helpful or informative. We are aware that many corals kept in captivity produce toxic compounds, and that these compounds are present in our systems.>
and an antidote to equalize it.
<We have the "antidote". The simplest, easiest, most cost effective way to limit the effects of these toxins is frequent water changes. For example, why would you test your hands for potential infective agents and then cover your hands with multiple expensive antibiotics when simple hand washing is more effective, easier and most economical? I should also mention that activated carbon can be useful. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/chemFiltrMar.htm >
Thanks
Sam
<Welcome, Mich>

About corals and anemones in a two month old tank... Not a joke? A mis-mix w/ no pix, useful info...    2/19/08
I have been trying to figure out if it is a soft coral or an anemone. It looks exactly like a brown colt coral, that is as close as I can get to finding a soft coral that looks like this. It is in my friends tank, but she says that the pet store told her it was an anemone.
<... do you have an image?>
I have looked at many different types of anemones but none that look or resemble this, that is what led me to believe it was a colt coral. She said that she can touch it and move it around, which leads me to believe it is a soft coral as well. Though it looks and flows like it is floppy and it has edged itself underneath a rock, so it is very hard to get picture of it. There is a damsel and a royal Gramma that swim extremely close to it as well and doesn't seem bothered by it at all.
There is also an anemone is her tank that is off white at the base and the tentacles are a deep purple, I have not been able to indentify it either.
<... you have read on WWM re Anemones, their identification?>
I have come close to matching it with a purple Condy. However at the ends of the tentacles, there are tiny hook like tentacles, and sometimes the tentacles look a bit shriveled. I have searched and the Condy is the closest match, any ideas on that one?
<... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/anemones.htm
and peruse the above linked ID FAQs files>
And, she just purchased a tube anemone,
<...?! I hope not a Cerianthid... very incompatible... see WWM re...>
But this one is very bright almost fluorescent pink in color. Could this be natural or do you think it has been dyed?
<... My friend, what is this? A guessing game? Send photos>
Two more questions, she said she saw a 4 inch white fuzzy thing come out of the live rock that she has never seen before, any ideas to what that could be? And she is going on vacation for a week, is it safe to leave the tank that long without them being fed or should she have someone come over to feed? She feeds the tube anemone every other day and the purple one about every three days. She also puts some type of liquid food in for the colt coral look a like thing about every three days.
Thank you so much for tolerating my questions, I am more of a novice in this as she is and I just want to help her out as well as educate myself.
<Have just skipped down... your answers and much more that needs to be made known is posted/archived on WWM. Do yourself, your friend and esp. the livestock in both your care the giant favor of learning to/using the indices, search tool... Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral eater  2/4/08
Hi,
I have Halichoeres chrysus. Could the fire fish be eating my corals?
<Microdesmids rarely chew on Cnidarians>
Also can the hermit crabs be a predator?
<Oh yes. B>
Regards,
PraKash

SW questions, Cnid. comp. and NO3 reduction  – 1/26/08
Hi Crew,
My first question is about lighting. I have a 10 gallon which is almost 5 years old. It has 4 different candy canes with a total of about 40 heads.
Also four hairy mushrooms (browns with blue lines) that are from one original.
<Would be very big trouble if introduced all at once...>
All my other mushrooms (reds, greens and blues) have shrunk and just disappeared.
<To be expected>
In fact there always seems to be one that does great and the others either just hang in or start shrinking.
<Bingo>
I have 65w PC's. The bulb I currently have is 10k and it will need to be replaced soon. Should I continue with this or can I go with a 50/50.
<I would not change>
I plan on staying with
candy canes and mushrooms.
<And not add any more/other Cnidarians>
I have lots of coralline on the glass and very little on the rock although it has started to increase on the rock lately.
My second question relates to nitrates. I am under the impression that it takes a DSB to have bacteria to process nitrates and if I do not have a DSB then water changes and/or a skimmer will help reduce it, water by dilution and a skimmer by eliminating the source pollutants.
<Actually, not so... for biological conversion (denitrification) requires some/any sort of hypo- to an-aerobic setting/media, very low flow rate through, thereabouts... Doesn't have to be... a DSB>
The first 3 years that I had my tank my nitrates were usually around .20. But for the last 2 years it is zero and I do not have a skimmer and I change 1 gallon every week. Does that mean I do have some nitrate eating bacteria or is my test kit on the blink. I use one of the cheap test kits (AP's master kit).
Thanks
<Likely there is no appreciable NO3... Bob Fenner>

Chemical warfare - 1/24/08
Dear Crew,
<Wesley>
Thanks for the great site. I wish I had spent more time reading before I bought my corals!
First I'll give you my tank specs: 50g, 2 x 150 watt MH (20k), protein skimmer, 60 lb live rock, 40 lb sand. 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, <0.01 ppm Phos, 1280 Mg, 8.3 pH when measured toward the end of my 10 hr light cycle. One maroon clown, 1 sand- sifting goby and no plans for anymore fish.
<Sounds good and nicely under stocked>
I think there's a war going on in my tank, here's why:
9 months ago I upgraded to metal halides so I could start keeping clams and Acros. I sold all my corals except a rock with Zoanthids, some pulsing xenias and a Hydnophora. Added a clam, 3 across and 2 Montipora to the tank over the span of three months. Then I added a RBTA...
<Boom, problem solved, too many corals of different Class in a space too small!>
This set up lasted for about 3 months with no problems, then the Montipora started to bleach. My phosphates were high so I bought a RO/DI system, started thoroughly washing frozen food, and attributed this to the Montipora deaths. Then two weeks ago about half of my snails died and now some of the across are bleaching. The only thing that has changed since adding the RBTA is the number of Zoanthids. Started at about 30 and is now closer to 200, maybe more. A chemical war between the Zoanthids and the RBTA is my guess. The xenias are nearest the bleaching corals, could that be a problem too?
<Xenia in an SPS tank is never a good idea if long-term success is planned, I’d take it all out and swap it for credit, has a nasty habit of taking over! The same goes for the Zoanthids, which are notoriously toxic, and in a comparatively small space they can wreak havoc. If you want SPS success then I would remove all other corals and also the RBTA which will either injure itself or your other inhabitants, most likely both from its untimely demise from the above. With only SPS in the tank it will allow you to build back up your stock levels and get a real feel for how to run an SPS tank and then attempt if you wish a few other less chemically-intrusive corals, namely LPS appropriately distanced of course>
What do I need to do to save my tank?
<As above, remove all corals other than SPS and focus on the care requirements of these alone for a while. Credit the rest of the stock in, but if you cant bare to let it all go, the Xenia should be your primary concern along with the RBTA. Also some Polyfilter and PO4 remover will help>
I'm going to do a water change and remove the Zoanthids while awaiting your reply.
<Perfect start, but Xenia!!>
Thanks,
Wesley
<Hope this helps, you were obviously off to a good start as SPS healthy for months initially shows a good grasp to build on! Olly>

Re: chemical warfare, Cnid.s   1/25/08
Dear Crew,
<Hi again Wesley>
Thank you so much for the quick reply. Just a few more questions: You said remove everything but the SPS corals, does this include the clams? I don't have another tank which I can remove them to other than a five gallon bucket I use for mixing / aerating salt water - currently in use by the Zoanthids. And about the Hydnophora / horn coral; is this ok to leave in the tank? The horn coral and Acros next to it have all faired well, granted they were at the other end of the tank and near their own power head.
<The clams can stay in the tank as their interaction with the SPS will be negligible and the Hydnophora can also remain>
Maintenance: I do have some ROWA ready to use that I can put in. The reason its not in is because the phosphates are low right now. Do I understand you correctly that this may also help with other chemicals/toxins in the water?
<A Polyfilter would be more useful in that capacity but you can run PO$, especially ROWA, constantly without negative effect to withdrawn any phosphate that does and will occur>
Also my lights; I'm using USHIO 20k 150 watt HQI's, they are about 9 months old now. Do these need to be changed? I haven't experienced any increased algae growth, but I've read this doesn't necessarily mean the lights haven't 'shifted' to a less beneficial spectrum. I know 14k or 10K would be better but I don't have room to add actinics, and find the 20k pleasing.
<I don’t recall the depth of your tank and it is possible to maintain SPS perfectly well with 20k bulbs but the PAR output as you probably know is quite low. As this is your first venture into keeping these coral then I would change to 10k or 14k, I imported the Phoenix 14k DE and have been very very pleased with that and the colour it gives will please you so that would be my recommendation. At this early stage whilst you are getting to grips with how an SPS tank works I feel more help from your lights in terms of coral nutrition will leave you more time to concentrate on the other critical elements>
While healthy SPS is my priority, eventually you said LPS might be ok. Really the only thing I would care to risk is a brain coral. Would this be ok?
<Definitely. I run an SPS system and the only other coral that I have in it are my collection of Trachyphyllia and as long as their tentacles aren’t within reach you should be fine here>
Finally, removing the xenias and Zoanthids means removing about 1/3 of the live rock. Any concerns about bioload? As I indicated in the previous email I'm on essentially a Berlin system; just sand, rocks, Eheim canister filter, and a protein skimmer.
<Is it not possible to chisel the inhabited areas off the rock, of course taking care not to leave any metal deposits? The bioload should cope as long as you don’t add anything else for a while, increase flow if possible and keep running the ROWA as this will take care of the phosphate that is released when you start shifting rock structures around – detritus agitation>
End of questions, I know that was a lot hah. Thank you for the advice and quick response. On my way to the LFS with a bucket of Zoanthids and xenia right now!
<Good to hear it, hope all this is helping and I think we’re almost sorted>
Best regards,
Wesley
<Olly>
 

Silent Killer In My Tank... just Cnid. allelo...   12/23/07 Hi Crew, <Jon> I was referred to you by the Foster's & Smith Tech Team. <Many fine folks there> I have been corresponding with them regarding my tank problems for about a week (to no avail). Here is the problem, for a little over a month, some of my coral and invertebrates are dying off, while others are thriving. The following livestock are effected: Brain Coral (looks as if the soft individual polyps have receded and what's left is just the skeleton), Plate Coral (the mouth remains wide open and starting to tear, while the tentacles no longer come out), Frog Spawn (have detached from the branches of rock it was on and floated away behind the live rock), Bulb Tip Anemone (Its shrinking every day, the tentacles are almost non existent) Fancy Tiger Striped Star Fish (is missing two of it's legs). Parameters get checked weekly. I do a 10% water change weekly. I sense a virus. <Mmm, not me...> The history, equipment, parameters, livestock and pictures are as follows: History: The tank has been running for approximately two years. No major setbacks until now. The two newest additions were the halide lighting and the nitrate filter. Both have been running about six weeks. The Anemone and Frog Spawn are about 9 months in the tank. The Plate and Brain Coral have been in the tank about two years and have never had a problem, until about a month ago. I have not had any new livestock in the tank for at least six months. Equipment: 70 gallon tank 4 wave makers Sump Tank Biological Filter (biospheres) Protein Skimmer 10 W UV light Nitrate Filter (running about 6 weeks now) 314W Halide/Blue Actinic Lighting 1 Lunar Light Chiller Phosphate filter bag Parameters: Alk- 300 Ca- 450 Mg- >1280 Nitrate- 20 (down from 40 a month ago) Nitrites- 0 Ph- 8.0 Phosphate- .1 Specific Gravity- 1.024 Temperature- 71-73 degrees Specimens: 2-Blue Damsels 2- Four Stripe Damsels 1- Maroon Clownfish 1- Tomato Clownfish 1- Yellow Tang 1- Brain Coral Bullseye Mushrooms Button Polyps Candy Cane Coral Yellow Colony Polyps Frog Spawn (pretty much doomed at this point) Hairy Mushroom 1- Plate Coral 1- Blood Red Fire Shrimp 1- Bulb Anemone 1- Zebra Moray Eel 1- Black Longspine Urchin 1- Fancy Sea Star 1- Fancy Tiger Striped Several Dwarf Red Tip Hermit Crabs Some Flat worms Several Margarita Snails Several Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs Tubiculous Polychaete Worms 50 lbs.-Fiji Premium Live Rock 50 lbs. Tonga Ridge Shelf Live Rock Fiji Mud Crushed Coral Substrate (2") Chaetomorpha Algae Pictures Enclosed: #2152- Frog Spawn floating around the tank #2148- Anemone shrinking #2149- Brain Coral receding #2150- Plate Coral w/ mouth wide open and torn #2151- Branches of rock where the Frog Spawn removed themselves I thank you for your time with this situation. I just hope that if this is a virus, the whole tank doesn't get infested. Please advise. Thanks again, Jon Hess <It is highly likely you have a classical allelopathological situation here... Most likely triggered by the Entacmaea presence... Please start reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm and the linked file above. This is such a common situation of induced problems, am making the topic my annual/08 pitch routine. Bob Fenner> Re: Silent Killer In My Tank, using WWM - 12/23/07 Hi Bob, Thanks for the valuable information. You raise an interesting point, which leads me to ask, should I look to eliminate the BTA? Can I eventually stock the tank with more coral or am I at my limit? Jon <Keep reading Jon... Onto Entacmaea compatibility. BobF>

Re: Calcium vs. Alkalinity, now Cnid. incomp. - 12/12/07
Thanks for your previous feedback.
<<My pleasure>>
I have noticed both in the WWM site as well as your response to my posting, that soft corals and anemones are not considered compatible.
<<I don’t recommend them be mixed with “any” sessile inverts due to the anemone’s tendency to “wander” and come in physical contact re...but additionally, most soft corals also prove to be very noxious to the anemone>>
I am a bit surprised that I have not been under this impression previously and I know at least a couple of fellow aquarists that also have been keeping such co-inhabitants.
<<Mmm, yes...I know more then a “few”...even did it myself in my younger days. And have even witnessed such displays at public aquariums.>>
Are there different degrees of compatibility?
<<Compatibility?...no Tolerance?...probably>>
Am I causing harm to either of these creatures?
<<To some degree...most assuredly. These creatures are all aware of each others presence...and likely in constant combat-mode. The soft corals exude noxious chemicals...the anemones release stinging-cells in to the water column...all of which is made worse by the confines of a closed system>>
They seem rather successful.
<<Maybe... But consider that these creatures are expending energies on attack and defense that could be going toward increased health and vigor, growth, even reproduction>>
In actuality, I am keeping many mushrooms, 3 medium sized leathers along with the one (hard?) acropora which has been unintentionally fragmented into several pieces. My anemones are 3 rose's and one very large sebae (white w/lavender tips).
<<Yikes, not a good idea to mix anemone species either... Even a group of conspecifics can be a problem unless they are clones>>
What would you recommend for the future of my creatures? I am not in this to cause harm.
<<Ideally, the anemones would be housed in species specific systems designed for their “long-term” health>>
It seems strange that we get attached to aquarium creatures!!
<<Indeed...though maybe not to the same extent as that for a beloved dog or cat. But I do believe aquarists should at least have compassion for the creatures they keep>>
Gratefully,
Wes J
<<Happy to share my opinions. EricR>>

Re: Unintentionally Kill New Finger Leather? Shroom incomp.  11/23/07
Hello again, WWM!
<Daryl>
Unfortunately, the finger leather coral we chatted about earlier didn't make it. However, I now know about the seriousness of allelopathy!
<Ah, good>
Now, I would like to add a new coral or two to my established tank.
However, I still have mushrooms everywhere! Do I have to remove these mushrooms to have any chance of successfully introducing a new coral?
<Mmm, there are techniques for gradually/getting used to such established settings... in another tank... with some water moved from the existing... perhaps a few of the Corallimorphs...>
The mushrooms are everywhere, like I said. Do you have any suggestions as to how I can move these mushrooms to several loose rocks so I can sell/give some of them away?
<Mmm, likely the existing rock can be cut/broken... with polyps on parts... or a chisel type tool can be employed to sheer part of the rock and bases off...>
After looking in the tank, there has to be at least 50 2-3" mushrooms in this 75 gal tank!
Also, I've successfully fragged two more heads from my toadstool leather.
One of them is nearly 3" tall after only a couple months! Perhaps I should see if the local LFS would like some mushrooms and a toadstool for some new coral?!?
<A very good idea. BobF>
Thanks for all your help!
Daryl

Re: moving and improving... and sugg.s for the Cnid. incomp. art./ppt  11/23/07
Hey Bob,
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply and take a look at your presentation, we are finally at the coast now getting ready to move the tank now. We have been VERY busy. I would love to show you the changes. We have been having some great luck with the aquarium lately. While we are out of town I have someone feeding the tank every day for me with frozen prepared foods I set up in an ice tray. I thawed brine shrimp, Cyclop eeze, and Mysid shrimp added garlic extreme, Zoe and Selcon, let that all soak for an hour then froze them so all that needs to be done is to pop them out, thaw and feed.
<Good technique>
My fiancé was so excited the other day to see a few Chitons in the tank 2 of them had some really cool color to them, our starfish (Fromia sp.) is doing quite well in our tank, it has been 3 months now and it seems happy as can be, I am looking forward to watching it grow and hopefully continue to thrive in this tank. I have some really interesting photos of unidentified critters to show you as well, once I get my computer set back up. I am taking a look at your ppt presentation and I like the direction you are taking with this, great information! One thing I am having trouble with is reading the black type against that blue background.
<I think I will change the rest to the off-light-green then>
In general the page layouts are nice. I like the photos you picked, very good demonstrations. The layering effect is nice as well. Overall a wonderful presentation, all I can think of here is more contrast between the type and the background, and a nice dark background to compliment the photos rather than compete with them, the blue "steals the spotlight", and makes the type hard to focus on, black backgrounds work well for that, perhaps with white type? Maybe use bold font as well? On page 2 I noticed some size variation in the photos, have you thought of balancing the bottom two photos height wise? That may make a difference in the flow of the page. I think the whole thing is great! So are you working on any new projects (books) or planning on such?
<Always a few>
I would love to have more of your works, they have been like bibles to me while learning about my aquatic pets, and teaching my fiancé how to care for them as well. I have gotten the whole family into this stuff now, we often go tide pooling out here, tomorrow is a -1.8 should be nice. We go out and capture critters such as octopus, eels, shrimps, crabs, snails, starfish, urchins etc and take good looks at them, discuss differences in certain animals / species being careful not to harm them and always return them safely to exactly where we got them, sometimes we save a few unfortunate critters from certain doom as well. I look forward to sharing my moving experience with you soon, have a great thanks giving! Sincerely, Brian Crenshaw
<Thank you for sharing and your input Bri. BobF>

Cnid. incomp., crowding... refugium use  11/19/07
hello again
Hi all!
Two purposes to this email, one as an update, in case it helps others, and two, to ask a couple of questions:
Background info:
Main tank - 65 gal, with 4X96 watt lights, one 6700, one 10000, one 460 nm, and one 420 nm. I use a Hydor ETH 300 external heater (I love this unit, very reliable and constant heat input to tank). Lots of live rock, two Phosban reactors used for activated carbon (I switch between them every month - very firm believer in the benefits of activated carbon). Protein skimmer - skimmer, carbon etc. in wet dry sump.
Refugium is a 37 gal. glass tank that I installed acrylic baffles into (acrylic didn't bond well to silicon- it holds well and is strong, but water passes by silicon).
<Right, silicone shouldn't be used to bond acrylic to glass.)
In the main tank I have two rapidly expanding star polyp colonies, lots of pulsating Xenia (started from one colony, now I'm up to about 10), Pavona cactus, hammer coral (one fragment, now expanded to 6 separate clusters), branching Montipora (started from a 1" fragment rubber banded to a rock, now about 3" in diameter and growing, two colonies of Nephthea (or Capnella, not sure), two Sarcophyton elegans, and some mushrooms (on a cluster of rock).
<Ugh, why would you put a Sarcophyton in with a Euphyllia? Sarcophytons are notoriously toxic to a lot of large polyp stony corals.>
Finally two very small Zoanthid polyp rocks, that seem to hold their own, with some small expansion. Buying fragments works out well for me, they're cheaper, and they seem to me to be very hardy.
<...and more "environmentally friendly." :-)>
As for other organisms, have three serpent stars, one Echinometra matthei (hitchhiker who's growing up), multiple hermit crabs, one blue-green Chromis, one Sebae clown, one coral beauty and one keyhole angel (have had these angels for years, seem to leave corals alone), one yellow clown goby, one lawnmower blenny, and one pearly Jawfish.
<All these in a 65g tank? It's going to get crowded as these fish grow (I'm assuming the angel and Sebae haven't reached full size yet).>
Also have a large Featherduster at the base of my rock (have had for over two years), within the last year, the Sebae clown has started a symbiotic relationship with this feather duster.
<Yeah, these clowns will apparently try to bond with anything.>
1) Update - I've been running a fishless refugium now for a year and a half (thanks to Eric R. for some good advice). What I noticed is that there is way more stability in my display tank, and everything is hardy and growing well. The refugium is really neat to look at as well, lots of life in there in the form of worms, micro stars, copepods, Mysids, feather dusters, Sycon sponges, etc.
<Cool. Refugiums are great.>
I run a DSB section in my refugium, with live rock and I try to harvest out algae at some frequency (lots of green hair algae, though I've added Chaetomorpha and am not sure how to make this catch on better).
<Maybe this will help: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/greenalg.htm>
Does Chaeto grow quickly or do I need to really stock up a larger quantity to get started?
<It just depends on how much light you put on it, availability of nutrients, etc. Most people report that it grows pretty fast.>
Even if my phosphates are low (near zero) and I try to reduce the time the lights are on in the refugium, I seem to get the hair algae (very bright green, long, dense).
<Your phosphates might be zero (or near zero) BECAUSE you have hair algae growing. Also, phosphate test kits only measure inorganic phosphates. Growing macroalgae in the refugium should help.>
I've recently noticed a near explosion of white limpets in my refugium, with some making their way over into my display tank. From what I've read, I don't *think* I should be concerned, but I wanted to mention it in case you disagree. The only livestock I've ever added to the refugium are three small turbo snails, some small micro stars, and a green sea hare. (maybe Elysia?)
I drain water off of my display tank, with a suction pump in the charge side of the refugium, and then pump back to my main tank with a pump from the discharge side. I have some safeties in the form of level switches to make sure I don't overflow anywhere, so far have had no problems.
I cannot stress enough what a positive experience the refugium has been.
<Excellent... please spread the word.>
I chart my tank chemistry in MS Excel, and I can see exactly where my nitrates dropped to zero once I brought the refugium on-line.
<cool>
I also just recently got up enough courage to remove my bio-balls from my main tank wet-dry sump, I will update if anything changes, though I don't expect it to. I have stopped almost all tank supplements, other than Kalkwasser (with a 3 mL vinegar boost to one liter of Kalk solution from an Aquadoser per Julian Sprung's Reef Aquarium Vol. 3), occasional Lugol's sol'n for iodine and once in a while an HBH Balance block (probably not necessary?) - I've given up on all pollution in a bottle!
<fabulous>
I really feel that I get a large portion of phyto and zooplankton from my refugium.
I run RDP on the refugium, probably a little overpowered on lights, 96 watt dual daylight/actinic on about 37 gal. tank, but I re-used these lights from my main tank when I upgraded it. I enjoyed building the refugium, the family likes it, and the livestock in my display tank certainly like it. I also enjoy looking for new and never before seen microorganisms in this tank as time goes on. I've never had this healthy a system before. Those out there considering, please give it a try, using this site as a reference, as well as the Calfo/Fenner Marine Invertebrates book - they have a great section on all the different types of refugiums you can build.
<yep>
My tattered book is currently on loan to my brother/sister-in-law, as I think they've decided to give a refugium a try after keeping an eye on mine.
<Great!>
2) Now some questions. I've always had my corals pretty well spread out, and have taken care to relocate some (figured out my Nephthea were probably attacking my Zoanthids). So I had pretty good spacing. And everything is growing very well.
However, two areas concern me. My hammer coral is expanding heartily toward my Pavona and my xenia. I've noticed that the xenia are moving away from the hammer. I just noticed the hammer is now touching the Pavona. Perhaps the carbon helps reduce the chemical warfare, but I'm assuming I need to cut back a couple of stalks to give away, or else move the hammer?
<You can do either. But the Euphyllia will hurt the Pavona if it touches it.>
My star polyps expand in a thick mat everywhere. They've surrounded the base of the Sarcophyton elegans and the mat has moved some way up the stalks. Other than that the elegans both look ok, but will there be a problem here?
<Possibly, star polyps can get to be a nuisance.>
Do I need to pull that mat back away, or do you think they will find equilibrium somewhere? It looks like the mat never makes it up the shafts, but maybe the elegans are expending valuable energy growing upwards to try and get away from the star polyps?
<They're competing for space. I doubt either is enjoying it. Are you asking me who will win? I don't know. If it were me, I'd remove the Sarcophyton (b/c they are often toxic to stony corals).>
Sorry for the long email - thanks again for all the great info, hope this helps somebody else, and if you're reading this and on the fence about refugiums.......go build one!!! You won't regret it!
<Haha... definitely.
Best,
Sara M.>

New Fishes, New Problems (Problems With New Fish Additions) – 09/23/07
Good morning crew.
<Hi there! Scott F. in today!>
First, I just want to say thank you for donating your time like this!! I have found so much useful information and contribute the success of the tank to some articles on your site!
<Thanks for the kind words. We have a top notch crew of talented volunteers here on WWM, and I'm proud to be associated with them!>
I have a 75 gallon tank coral/fish and is doing pretty well.
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
PH - 8.2
Alk - Normal
Tank mates include:
Clownfish
Black and White Damsel
Diamond Goby
Coral Banded Shrimp
Atlantic Anemone
Bubble Coral
Christmas Coral
Assorted Polyps
4 turbo snails
Assorted blue and red crabs
2 feather dusters
<Interesting mix...>
The Polyps tend to flourish in my tank growing larger and larger everyday. The anemone, bubble and Christmas tree all seem to sustain life but don’t seem to flourish like the polyps.
<Well, anemones do have rather demanding husbandry requirements and you really are better off creating a system to cater to their specific needs. Categorically, they don't do well in mixed aquariums in the long run for most people.>
I can’t seem to keep alive additional fish in the tank. I added a Cardinal who lasted a few weeks then passed. I immediately tested the tank and all levels were 0. Not trusting my tests I took my water to the LFS and all
levels were perfect. I tried again with a Foxface and same result.
<Curious. BTW, I think that a Foxface needs more space than this aquarium can afford, but I don't see that as the reason why the fish died.>
The current fish seem to do great and love life. There does not seem to be any aggression towards anything.
I have read about other 75 gallon tanks that have twice as much livestock.
<I'm sure that there are systems out there like that. However, think about this for a second: I have lots of friends who drive their cars though twisty canyon at ridiculous speeds, and they never get into accidents...Does that mean that I should also be driving outrageously fast on the same roads? Maybe a bad analogy, but you get the picture. For optimum success, create an environment that provides all of your specimens conditions that they need to thrive, including conservative stocking levels. Who cares what "other guys" do? You do what you feel is right for your animals. That's what got you where you are!>
I attribute this to my actual water quantity. It’s a 75 gallon tank with almost 90-100 lbs of live rock and about 75 lbs of sand. My displacement is about 8-10 gallons. My canister filter and remora protein skimmer are the only devices that add water quantity to the system. In your opinion have I reached my tanks capacity? I would like additional fish but not at the expense of their lives.
<I commend you on your philosophy. I believe that you could probably keep one or two additional small fish in this system. I'm more concerned about your mix of inverts that I am about your fish. It's hard to say why the fishes that you introduced died. Could be stress from acclimation, transport, etc. It sounds like overt aggression from other tankmates and water quality were not factors. It really sounds like an issue related to the new fish themselves. Review your selection process, quarantine procedure, and fish source. Another, rather distant possibility is that there is some sort of pathogen in your system that the existing inhabitants have developed an immunity to, but that the new fishes were unable to withstand. Personally, I'm leaning towards the new fishes themselves. Do review the issues that I pointed out, and perhaps you'll have better luck in the future! Regards, Scott F.>

Tank trouble... Allelopathy amongst Cnidarians?   7/21/07
Hey guys,
<Melissa>
I have something crazy going on in my tank. Overnight all of my stony corals started to bleach. Within two days most of them were dead.
<Yeeikes!>
Also my clowns look like they have some type of film on them. Lastly, my Coral Beauty angel is missing half of her tail and her dorsal fin. It resembles peeling after a sunburn. I have no idea what could be happening. This tank was started in January of 2007.
<Something very wrong...>
My tank specs:
150 gallon reef with two built in overflows
Wet/dry filter, slowly replacing bio balls with live rock to bring nitrates down
Protein skimmer
Wavemaker system
Nothing new has been added to the tank in at least 3 months
Fish: Sailfin tang, regal tang, two clowns, Naso tang, Pseudochromis, watchman goby and a coral, beauty angel
Coral: open brain, maze brain, bubble coral, green polyp birds nest, xenia, frogs spawn, pipe organ, star polyps, trumpet coral, plate coral, and a variety of mushrooms and button polyps. Well, this is what I did have.
Inverts: two cleaner shrimp, turbo snails, clam, hermits, spiny oyster and two feather dusters
I did two water changes since this all began on Sunday (20%). Should I do more?
<Mmmmmm, maybe... but not with the salt mix you've been using perhaps. Have you tried adding some chemical filtrants... Activated carbon, Polyfilter... I would>
The strange thing is that the soft corals look fine.
<Mmm, they may indeed be the source of the trouble here>
I would appreciate any assistance. I really want to save anything that I can.
pH-7.8
<Low>
ammonia-0
nitrites-0
nitrates- under 20
Thanks,
Melissa
<I would move the "mal-affecteds"/what you can if you have space elsewhere... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/softcrlcompfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>