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FAQs about the Coral Beauty Dwarf Angel Disease/Health

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Related FAQs: Coral Beauties, Coral Beauty Identification, Coral Beauty Behavior, Coral Beauty Compatibility, Coral Beauty Selection, Coral Beauty Systems, Coral Beauty Feeding, Coral Beauty Reproduction, Flame Angels 1, Best FAQs on Centropyge, Dwarf (Centropyge) Angels, Dwarf Angel Identification, Dwarf Angel Selection, Dwarf Angel Compatibility, Dwarf Angel Systems, Dwarf Angel Feeding, Dwarf Angel Disease, Dwarf Angel Reproduction, Marine Angelfishes In General, Selection, Behavior, Compatibility, Systems, Health, Feeding, Disease,

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Color change?    12/1/14
I bought a coral beauty angel a few weeks ago. It is really dark. Barely any orange coloring to it. Will it brighten up and it gets older?
<Darkening.... a very bad sign. Something is amiss here. CHECK your water quality... MOVE this fish to a floating plastic colander... for fear another organism is harassing it... WRITE back w/ useful data... re the system, history, tankmates, water quality tests... Bob Fenner>

Diagnosis 2nd opinion need Coral Beauty       4/18/14
Needing a true answer to what this might be (See Images Attached)
<I see these...>
Coral Beauty, Marine Ich broke out 5 days ago, bought at LFS, Coral had some small pepper like white spots. I started Hyposalinity on her. Then she got worse and broke out in what I think was is Lymphocystis or Fungus.
<The former... some aspect of viral involvement here>

- In QT
- In Hyposalinity 1.008
<These won't solve this situation>
- Water per test are great
- Daily water changes 25%
- 2 rounds of Erythromycin planning a total of 4 rounds to prevent infection
<Nor this>

- Air stone tank
- Vitamin C and Selcon
- Eating very well and active.
<These last two are helpful>

Is this Lymphocystis or a fungus and am I on the right antibiotic to prevent secondary infection? Do I keep her in hyposalinity? Should I change anything?
<Yes I would. I'd post haste return this fish to your main/display tank...
where circumstances are more suitable, stable... Continue with the vitamin, HUFA soaked foods, and likely employ cleaner organism/s... In time the Lymph... will solve, resolve itself. Do please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/virdiscures.htm
and the linked files above for background, input>
Thanks for your response
Scott
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>


Requesting Advice - Treatment for Possible Velvet or Crypt New Coral Beauty    6/17/12
Hello WWM Crew,
 <Scott>
I wonder if I can ask your advise on a course of treatment for a newly purchased (still in quarantine) Coral Beauty for my SPS system.
 <Sure>
About three weeks ago I purchased this "almost perfect" fish. He came from a highly reputable LFS specializing in reef systems. The person at the store told me he came from someone who had to break down his system. From inspection of the fish he looked vivid, plump, energetic and curious. Very well acclimated and no signs of disease whatsoever.
Following my usual protocol, I introduced the Angelfish into a ten gallon quarantine tank
<Mmm, a bit too small>
 with water from my SPS (established for 5+ years). Because he was already acclimated into an aquarium environment, I did provide the "luxury" of adding some live rock and some Chaeto from my display for what was intended to be a 30 day quarantine. The Centropyge did fine from the start, eating almost right away.
 <So far, so good>
About five days ago, in the morning I noticed what appeared to be very tiny specks of white spots on the "face". Very tiny, approximately one third the size of salt grains, roughly a dozen or so spots. I immediately thought Crypt, but noticed no telltale spots on the Pectoral or Caudal fins. In any event I thought action was needed and proceeded to do a 100% water change using display water, a complete cleaning of the QT and I removed all the LR and replaced with plastic pipe for some hiding places.
No telltale signs until this morning. Today I found similar specs, roughly the same amount and a bit farther down each side. Still nothing on any fins. Unfortunately these spots appear too small to come out on a photograph. The CB is still active and alert, eating well as of last night.
I would like to pursue treatment right away, but I am still not sure if this is Crypt, or possibly Velvet. (I have never seen Velvet "up close and personal" so I can't be sure).
<Microscopic examination of body slime mucus...>
Can you offer any advice as to what I might be dealing with?
 <... could be a protozoan, could be air bubbles or other, might be simply accrued mucus spots from stress... other possibilities>
Without not knowing for sure at the moment, my immediate plan for treatment is to lower the salinity (not considering hyposalinity yet - but believe it or not did perform successfully on a Flame Angel once - very tricky to maintain proper biological balance) and raising the water temp to about 82F. I will also "re-install" an old UV treatment lamp (with new bulb) and performing daily 100% water changes.
 <Ok>
I suspect the above will be a good start but likely not enough to fully eradicate whatever I have. Should I consider some type of dip as well?
<Not if just returning the fish to the possibly infested system, no>
 My concern here is that it is my understanding that Centropyge are rather sensitive to chemical treatment.
 <Yes... however IF you deem/find that this is Crypt or other such Ciliate, I'd give a quick read on WWM re Quinine compounds: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinSciUseF.htm
and the linked files above>
Again, any advice you can offer would be highly appreciated.
 <Mmm, and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corlbeaudisfaq.htm
Thanks in advance for your reply.
 Scott
<Thank you for your query. Bob Fenner>
Fw: Requesting Advice - Treatment for Possible Velvet or Crypt New Coral Beauty    6/17/12

Hello WWM Crew,
 <Scott>
Further to my email yesterday (below) I have a few pieces of additional information.
 First, in a stroke of luck this morning, the Coral Beauty spent about five minutes in direct morning sunlight. I was able to take the attached photo, which shows the spots in question with clarity. Note these spots appear mainly on the "face" of the fish.
 <Yes; does "look" like Crypt>
Additionally, I note no scratching, flashing, or labored breathing which strikes me as odd given the indications on the face.
 <Mmm, mysterious>
I'm still not certain what I am dealing with but this appears to be either Crypt or Velvet.
 <Me neither; still>
Yesterday I did a 100% water change from my SPS display, lowered the salinity from 35 to 33 ppt, and raised the water temperature to about 82 F. I also installed a small UV sterilizer with a new (8 watt) bulb.
 <Ok>
I don't think this will be sufficient and that some type treatment (dip or in QT) is probably need to save this beautiful fish. My concern is that this species is very sensitive to copper and other medications (Formalin) and that this is my one best shot to get this right. Would you kindly advise your opinion as to which course of treatment might be best?
 <You have a few choices. As this is such an early, likely "single stage" infestation (if biological), I am more inclined to try dips/baths and moving the fish to another non-infested setting>
Thanks again for your assistance and the invaluable web resource.
 Scott
<Welcome. BobF>

coral beauty, life/hlth.     6/6/12
hi bob and crew,
<Jeff>
I bought a coral beauty from my lfs about four weeks ago. He was placed in my QT, eating fine but spending most of his time hiding inside one of these artificial logs I bought. Then one day he didn't come out of his log for food as he always had been doing.
I wasn't sure what was up so I wrote to you folks. When I suggested maybe I should move him to the regular tank, you agreed. I put him in, and it was pretty much the same for the past week. He spent almost all of his time hiding and didn't show much interest in food, some but not a lot. This morning, I found him dead at the bottom of the tank. he had some white on him but that might have been substrate. Clearly, whatever it was that killed him, started in the QT.
<Maybe before>
I do regular water changes in the QT (20 gallon tank) but haven't paid much attention to nitrates or nitrites in there, although I did pay close attention to salinity, temperature. the water is RO/DI, although our water here in Portland, OR. is good. Filtration is provided by a reef octopus skimmer and an Ecco canister.
He seemed fine in the LFS, where the manager has become a friend. I watched him for quite a bit of time before we caught him. He was active and eating, but that seemed to change when we moved him here. Could stress have done it?
<Ah yes>
 Is there anything I should check in the QT?
<Mmm, other than letting it, this system go fallow for a bit, no>
 I know from your articles that coral beauties are a hit and miss proposition but it seemed just fine at the lfs and it had been there a few weeks. Is a coral beauty just one of those fishes that don't do well in quarantine?
<Some percentage... maybe 10-20)
I know there was a little territorial battle going on between the coral beauty and a large royal gramma. in fact, that's how I knew the coral beauty was dead, I saw the gramma in the coral beauty's usual spot. could the royal gramma have killed him?
<Mmm, yes>
one reason I ask is we have a mandarin, and he was puttering around that spot this morning, and I watched the gramma butt him about five times, trying to get him out of there (the mandarin just ignored him). The coral beauty was not quite himself before, however, so who knows?
<Not I>
The royal gramma and the coral beauty were in the QT together for a while.
The gramma spent most of his time in terror on his side. His personality changed 100 percent, though, as soon as I moved him into the DT, where he is claiming territory as his own. That raises one last question: could he seriously hurt the mandarin if the mandarin keeps roaming into his territory?
<Yes; if it keeps butting it. Some Gramma loreto can be/come terrors. Read
here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/grammacompfaqs.htm
the mandarin is much smaller than the gramma.
<They're (Callionymids, oids) "toxic" slime-wise; so most fishes leave them alone>
As usual, many thanks in advance for your good advice.
Jeff
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty with HLLE and Worms?? 2/21/12
Hello Again,
I have another question on one of my fish it my 150 gallon FOWLR tank - the coral beauty. I have started to feed NLS pellets around 8 weeks ago (alternate with frozen).
<Good>
A couple of weeks ago I notice the poop is brown but a string at times.
Then last night, I noticed the string of poop on the coral beauty was white with last bit that came out brown. I read brown can be from too much food but white indicates a parasite.
<Can; not always>
Also, I believe the fish has HLLE.
<I agree>
Since using the NLS pellets, the color has gotten better and the HLLE (if that what it is) is better. What I think is HLLE is like pock marks (or holes in the head) on both sides of the head around the eyes.
Up until using the NLS pellets, the diet was not great. The coral beauty usually got what we left over from frozen mix.
<I see a good deal of highly competitive fish tankmates in your photos>
I do run activated carbon and have a grounding probe in the sump (I do not have a probe in the tank). I have no power heads or anything with electric running inside the display.
<Do see the recent literature linking carbon use and incidence of HLLE...
Maybe start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/HLLESWCauseF.htm
then onto the linked files above>
Attached are some pictures (four of the CB and one of the other fish).
I might try soaking the NLS pellets in Selcon. I rarely use the Selcon, but probably should.
<Yes; I would>
The CB has been in the display tank for around 5 months. The CB was QTed and treated with PraziPro and Quinine Sulfate during QT (I do not recall if I also used QuickCure at the time).
<Hopefully not. Too toxic>
Other fish in the tank were also previously treated with PraziPro.
Snowflake Eel had for 2 years
Porcupine Puffer had for 1 year 8 months
Red Breasted Wrasse in tank for 10.5 months
Coral Beauty Angel in tank for 5 months
Banana Wrasse in tank for 2.5 months
Niger Trigger in tank for 2.5 months
All the above were QTed and treated with Quinine Sulfate and PraziPro except for the puffer and the eel. However, while in the display I previously treated them with Cupramine and also Prazi pro. That treatment was probably 15 to18 months ago.
All fish seem fat and happy. The CB is harassed at times and there have been signs of the tail fin nipped pretty good, but this has grown back quickly.
Is the stringy poop a sign of a parasite?
<Again, not strictly positively correlated... as with ourselves... fecal appearance can be linked to emotional state, foods>
If so, is PraziPro in the display the best option? Looking at my records, I did treat the display with Prazi again around 7/8 months ago. I forget if it was just in case or I saw something. If my records are correct, this was before I put the CB in the display.
<I would not further treat w/ an Anthelminthic... Some live rock addition would help here... as would many aspects of improved water quality... from refugium use, DSB, RDP...>
If treating the display with PraziPro is not the best option, anything else I can do in the display or by moving the CB to a QT (will be a challenge)?
<I would not move the fishes>
Does PraziPro treat internal parasites or only external?
<Both>
thanks again for the help.
Mike
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral Beauty with HLLE and Worms?? 2/21/12
thank you. I will read through the link provided.
so the current recommendation is to not treat at this point? I just want to confirm.
<... read>
Also, you note some live rock additions. Do you mean for more hiding places?
<... no>
I do have around . I do have around 80 pounds of very porous live rock (Pukani from Bulk Reef Supply) plus 4 liters of Seachem Pond Matrix in my sump (wet/dry sump I took out bio balls). Of the 80 pounds of LR, around 20-30 of it is in the sump.
<I see... this is more than enough, and it's rather new/fresh>
My ammonia and nitrite are zero. nitrate down to 10ppm. Phosphate around zero. Salinity is around 1.0245 to 1.025. A couple of months ago it was lower (around 1.021)
<I'd keep this higher... see WWM re rationale>
and I have raised it over time. Temp ranges from 78 to 79.
I consistently do 20% water changes and do not recall the last time I skipped one.
thanks again,
Mike
<Welcome. B>
Re: Coral Beauty with HLLE and Worms?? 2/21/12

Thanks again. Already started reading.
I will not treat with PraziPro for now.
I will stop both my ROX Carbon and GFO for a month or two and see if that helps.
I will also start regularly soaking the NLS pellets and maybe frozen food with Selcon.
thanks,
Mike
<Real good. B>

Re: Coral Beauty with HLLE and Worms??  2/25/12
Attached are some more pictures I took this morning of the stringy poop.
I wanted to run by you guys to see if it changes the opinion if this is a parasite or not.
<Can't tell from other than microscopic examination... feces look like they do for many different reasons>
I have held off on treating the tank with PraziPro per the below emails.
I have stopped the carbon and GFO since Tuesday and treating with Selcon hoping to solve the HLLE, but am concerned there is a parasite with the poop.
thanks again,
Mike
<... Welcome. BobF>

Re: Coral Beauty with HLLE and Worms??  2/25/12
ok.  so would you say it is best to hold off on treating for now as long as the fish is still swimming around and eating.
And just feed better with the NLS and Selcon?
<Yes>
thanks.
Mike
<B>

Strange coral beauty behavior. 7/14/11
Hello,
My name is James and im new to the hobby. I have a 55 gallon tank with 2 Darwin clowns, a yellow tail blue damsel, a coral beauty and around eight or nine hermits. This set up is around 3 months old and has been hanging on to a diatom bloom for about a month.
<Typical; as you are likely aware>
My concern is with my coral beauty. It seemed healthy two weeks ago, other than ignoring my feedings in favor of diatoms.
<Do you have live rock present here? HIGHLY recommended as all Centropyge are "nibblers">
That's when I noticed a milky film on its eye. Fearing Ick or PopEye, I freshwater dipped him for 3 minutes in my FW tank.
<... not a good idea. Too stressful, and if there is a causative agent in your system, you just returned the fish to its presence>
The eye cleared up after a day and I attributed it to the damsel or some other physical injury. Roughly 2 weeks have passed and now I've noticed a white or clear spot on his anal fin. Its tiny and I cant tell whether it belongs there or not. He has also been much more active the past few days, most notably rubbing against rocks. He is still grazing on diatoms all day and seems happy, but im simply not experienced enough to know what is normal and what is not. Im writing you because in forums I am getting diagnoses overload. At this point my main suspects are velvet or Ick. I don't have a quarantine so im hoping coral beauties just like to rub on rocks.
<All fishes do to degrees>
Thank you for schooling this newby.
Sent from my Cellular South Galaxy S
<Mmm, I'd focus on the environment here... add some/more good quality live rock, spiff up/clean your skimmer, use good grade activated carbon in your filter flow path... And try other foods. Spectrum pellets is a fave.
Otherwise, have you read re this species, genus on WWM? Do so. Bob Fenner>
Re: Strange coral beauty behavior. 7/14/11

Thank you for alleviating some of my worry. I have about 20 lbs of live rock that cycled with the tank.
<Ah good>
Its completely covered in beautiful purple, pink and a little green algae.
<And hopefully replete w/ smaller invertebrate fauna... worms, crustaceans et al.>
I added 20 lbs of mixed base rock and coral skeletons a few weeks ago and they are starting to get little pink spots of their own.
I forgot to mention something else strange that my tank has started doing.
In the morning ,when I turn the tank lights on, the water is cloudy. It clears on its own but takes almost the whole day light cycle to do so. It has a white/beige tint so my best guess is free-floating diatoms.
<Mmm, maybe... though there are a few chemical/physical situations that look like this as well. You might want to check your Alkalinity, Ca and Mg concentrations>
Just wanted an expert opinion. And thank you for your time.
Sent from my Cellular South Galaxy S
<Welcome James. BobF>

Re: Stocking list , opinions please? 12/26/10
Greetings again Bob et. al.
Thanks for your extremely swift reply,
<Welcome Rama... a fave series of books by Arthur C. Clarke>
Owing to availability issues I've ended up purchasing the Centropyge Bispinosus first, and after driving all over Melbourne, diligently inspecting candidates and their environments, have managed to select a stunning specimen who has already develop Ich in his first week of quarantine, but hey, at least he's IN quarantine.
<Yes>
He had a 5 minute Freshwater (only), temp and PH adjusted dip on his way to Quarantine, which he seemed to tolerate very well (obviously didn't help though!) and has been eating Mysids and mashed scallop happily (not interested in dried seaweed strangely).
<Not so strange... do pick on algae (live) on rock though>
Was shy for the first few days , but attentive and active now. Actually looks/acts quite healthy apart from the 2-3 white spots that have appeared on his head and mouth today, and a reddish colouration under each pectoral fin at the base (Armpit?).
<Okay... flank>
I'm aware of the Centropyge intolerance for chemicals and wanted the teams input on the best way to tackle this. I have in my kit Methylene Blue, Cupramine (and test kit) and a Methylene Blue/Malachite green Combo (all of which I've variously read can be an issue with these fish). The Quarantine is about 90-100L, overhead trickle filter, bare bottom with PVC and he's in there by him/herself.
I don't have any Formalin (or experience with same) and being Christmas, may have limited opportunity to buy any.
Do you think I should make the Formalin a priority or just go with a reduced dose of Cupramine (will this "take out" my QT filter bacteria also?), coupled with a Methylene Blue Dip?
<This last would be my path here for now... But would use Quinine in the near future. Do please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cryptasbfs.htm
Cheers,
Rama
<And you, BobF>

coral beauty, chewed 7/27/10
Hello crew hope all is well. I picked up a coral beauty last Monday, the pet store had a very good sale price on them so I picked one up. She was the most active and beautiful coral beauty out of the 4 they had. I stood
there a good 20 minutes walking back and forth comparing them all. The guy at the store had real hard time catching her
<... use two nets>
which I thought was even better news, she even got back out of the bag.
So I've been working on my refugium/sump and haven't converted my ten gallon brackish tank to my quarantine tank yet, I still have my molly babies in there I feed to my Hawkfish. After a 2 hour drip I put her in the main tank. She hid for only maybe 15 min then came out and was very active. I noticed something weird with her side then. And still today I can't tell what it is. She has what sometimes looks like yellow dusting (velvet?) but other times it looks like its her scales peeling maybe or some kind of injury I just can't tell if its her or a parasite on her.
<Mmm, can't really make this out; looks to be more of a mechanical injury to me... and this fish has been chewed by... the Hawkfish?>
So a day goes by and then I notice the top of her tail fin has a chunk out of it and all my fish get along great. I do have a lot of flow going (2400 gph 75gallon with 38gallon refugium/ sump dsb in both) so maybe she crashed into a rock because I notice she likes to whip around weaving in and out of rock. Few days pass and she is very active loves to eat frozen Spirulina brine and also if she is just wanting to hog will eat frozen Mysis and krill. Her tail was looking like it was healing. The yellowish coloring you could still sort of see but not really so started to really think it was an injury. But then today comes. I work nights and get off at 4 in the morning but I stay up till fish light comes on and for all my friends to come out and get fed. She came out was as friendly and active as always and thought awesome she is doing better looks even better things are good.
I wake up this afternoon go downstairs and she looks worse than she ever has been. Her rear tail looks like its still healing on the top but now in the middle and toward bottom she has two streaks missing. I went to the grocery store and bought some fresh garlic and squeezed out the oil and put the Spirulina brine in it for food.
So should I get that brackish tank salinity up some, throw in my carbon bag from my main tank and start trying to catch my coral beauty?
<Mmm, maybe... I'd remove whomever is chewing this fish myself>
All my other fish look awesome. I have flame Hawkfish, blue/green damsel, watchman goby with pistol, snowflake eel, purple flame goby, and bristletail filefish.
<Most likely the Hawk, but could be the File>
All my water parameters are excellent. I upgraded from a single t5 florescent bulb to 2 t5HOs on Wednesday don't know if that would cause anything.
I have been back to the fish store few times within the past week and checked out the neon velvet damsels that the coral beauty was tankmates with and they look great still. I have attached a few pics of her. That grey/whitish spot, that wasn't there before, that too doesn't look like its sticking to her more like part of her body.
<... Need to separate the chewed from the chewer. Bob Fenner>

Re: coral beauty, chewed 7/28/10
Thanks so much for the reply. I have been watching the tank all day so far and not seeing any type of sign that she is getting chewed on. She looks a lot better today, the two slits are gone. She is coming to front of glass and opening all her fins wide. She swims with both the hawk and the file.
Sometimes the hawk will make a crash landing into her. The file and her will make contact but I've seem them swim side by side through the rock work. No pecking yet. Once again thanks so much for the input. Decided to
just get another small tank so I have a quarantine. That way I can let my mollies stay where they are, I see that I have been playing with fire.
<Thank you for this update, further input. BobF>

Coral Beauty angel, discoloration, LR curing issue likely 8/21/09
I have a 55 gallon aquarium that has been up about 6 months and running well. No issues with livestock. Recently I removed a 240 gallon per hour filter that ran in conjunction with a 400 gallon per hour filter, in its place I put a powerhead that moves 400 gph. I also added a new liverock.
That was 1 week ago. Water tests fine and no other problems. This morning I woke and saw that my coral beauty angel has become pale and is losing some coloration. Have you heard of this and do you have a recommendation as to any action I should take.
<Water changes! If you can't move the Centropyge to better circumstances, i.e. another system... Something in the new LR is toxifying this system.
Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty question: Injury\Aggression\Poor Water Quality\Overstocking 6\24\2009
Hi WWM,
<Hi Ian,>
I bought a coral beauty angelfish 4 days ago from a local fish store.
When I bought it, it looked fine and had very beautiful colors. I asked if it was eating and they told me it was eating mysis shrimp.
<OK, Remember it is always better to verify a fish is eating before purchase.>
Today, I saw that on the left side of the face, there was a little orange color around the top of the eye and under the eye and towards the mouth. I have attached a picture of another coral beauty I found on the Internet that has the same identical problem I am describing.
<I see this>
The only other fish in the tank is a pair of ORA semi-Picasso clownfish.
<Two Clownfish and a Coral Beauty.>
The coral beauty hides in little hideaways and caves in the live rock.
Could this mark be a scrape from the rock?
<Or from the Clownfish>
These fish are in a 29 gallon all glass system with a carbon filter and a CoralLife needle wheel super protein skimmer.
<29 Gallons is too small for two Clownfish and a Coral Beauty.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stocking1.htm >
The ammonia of the tank is 0 ppm. The nitrites are .2 ppm. The nitrates are 0 ppm. The pH level is 8.3.
<Nitrites need to be 0. You tank is still not fully cycled. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/no2probfaqs.htm >
Other information of the tank is that there is 20 lbs of live sand and 20 lbs of live Fiji rock. The coral beauty eats normally and swims normally. There are no invertebrates or corals. What do you think is this mark?
<Three possible causes. either poor water quality, or physical injury caused by scraping against the rock, or caused by the clownfish.>
Thank you,
Ian
<MikeV>

New Coral beauty, hlth. -- 06/29/08 Hello to everyone in the WWM Crew I would like to start off by complimenting all of you on your outstanding site!! The best one I've been on yet! And although I've been more of a lurker I think its time I asked for myself lol. Well for starters I recently purchased a coral beauty from my LFS and everything has been going great my water is perfect! And my fish are getting along great oh my bad..... my inhabitants include one neon goby, a percula clown fish, two skunk cleaner shrimp, one peppermint shrimp, two small blue legged hermits, and a couple bristleworms. Sadly they are all cramped in a 28 gallon aquarium which thankfully I will be upgrading by Christmas! <Let us hope your Centropyge lives till then... this is much too small a world> Anyways today I came home and as I was feeding the gang I noticed that my beauty had a strange reddish oval smack dab in the middle of his/her forehead and I was just wondering what this may-be and what you might do in this situation.? <Likely an "owee" con/subsequent with "running into something"... again, environmental really> Thank you in advance for any light you could shed on the situation and once again congratulations on an awesome and helpful sight God bless. Eli <Ah, yes... superstition. Please see WWM re infectious diseases of marine fishes... I'd trade the C. bispinosus in till you have adequate habitat for it. BobF>

Coral Beauty & Sea Urchin Demise -- 06/02/08 Hello, <<Howdy>> It has been awhile since I have written with a question. <<Welcome back>> Recently my 125 gallon saltwater tank has been taking a few casualties. <<Uh oh>> Last week I lost my long tentacle sea anemone which I was expecting, <<'¦?>> and today I found two more losses. <<'¦!>> First I lost a short spine sea urchin. I don't know why it happened my pencil tip seems fine and there is plenty of algae in the tank to graze on. The urchin was introduced about eight months ago, before the tank had lights, and algae, and it suffered and lost a lot of spines. After I got the lights it improved, at least to my eyes. Is it possible it never recovered from this? <<Maybe'¦ But I find these creatures often require more than just 'algae' to survive (variable among species)'¦especially the nuisance alga found in hobbyist's tanks. In my experience, a good supply of live rock with plenty of calcareous alga and other emergent life upon which the Urchin can graze is essential for long-term health>> The second body pulled from the tank was sadly my coral beauty. I bought this about two months ago but had never seen it eat. <<This is not an uncommon event. This species often suffers badly during collection/transportation>> The first month it was very secretive, but lately it was out a lot more. I assume it was living off algae in the tank since it seemed to have a full stomach and was in good health. <<It was likely browsing the live rock, yes>> I think since it never took to the foods I offered (tropical marine flake, freeze dried bloodworms, freeze dried plankton, marine-one pellets, and frozen squid), and that it only lived off algae for two months, it died because of nutrition deficiency, sound probable? <<A probability, yes'¦as a secondary result of trauma/stress/inability to adapt'¦and leading to its refusal of the foods offered. Speaking of which'¦I notice three what I consider 'essential' food items missing from your list. These would be frozen glass worms (great for enticing finicky eaters), frozen mysis shrimp (another good enticement and over good food item), and New Life Spectrum pellets (and amazing food supplement for ALL your fishes)>> Your input is greatly appreciated. <<Happy to share. EricR>>

Need help w/diagnosis of Coral Beauty 5/2/08 Hi, I purchased a Coral Beauty from a LFS approximately 3.5 wks ago. He is still in quarantine. The quarantine water is from the main display. The QT is 10gals. The water parameters are: specific gravity: 1.024, ph: 8.3, Nitrites<.01, Ammonia<.5, Nitrates<.01, calcium=425, Mag=1300, Alk=9 and temp=82 degrees. Water is from an RODI system. After purchasing any new fish I always add some Methylene Blue, (approx 2ml), with some Nova Aqua during the acclimation process. After adding the fish to the QT tank it seemed to be thriving however I thought I saw a light spot on the rear of his body. <I see this too> I held off doing anything since he was moving & eating well. After about a week the spot became more prominent. I have been feeding him brine and mysis shrimp with some veggies, green algae, flake and pellet, (also adding vita chem. every other day). He now has become more selective or not eating as much and a spot has also broken out on his eye, (on the same side as the other spot). It is now 3.5 wks later and he still has the 2 spots, sometimes I think there are tiny specs on the other side of his body but it is very difficult to tell. It does not appear to be ich but possibly some type of fungus. Please take a look and let me know what you think and any possible treatments. thanks.... Frank <Mmm, I don't think these marks are anything "catching", and consider that the benefit: possible detriment ratio is vastly in favor of summarily moving/placing this fish in permanent setting... in your main display. The blems are likely from "stress", the small confines, presence of ammonia, nitrite. I'd be moving this Centropyge. Bob Fenner>

Sick coral beauty... too small a world, with too many roomies 4/15/08 After looking through the archives I haven't found anything that fits my particular situation... I have a 30g <Too small for this species... Centropyge bispinosus needs at least twice this volume> year old overly equipped mixed reef tank. It has had 2 clowns and a blue damsel for over 10 months now. Two months ago I bought a coral beauty that initially ate well and was very curious. However lately it has been nipped several times by the blue damsel (I'm assuming from its notorious reputation not from experience), <Even more stress> and it has begun to get what looks like a bit of tail rot. <Social/environmental> The main concern is where the lips appear to be increasingly eroding allowing me to see more than just dentition. <Very bad> This I'm guessing is why it is also all of a sudden only interested in tasting food never swallowing. <On its way out> I am going to try Selcon soaked Nori and I am trying very hard to catch the damsel to no avail. <... ridiculous. Drain the tank if necessary... it's not that big> My question is, what might be causing the lip erosion? And is there anything else I can do? And by the way I am planning on immediately upgrading to a tank over 75 gallons; I have just been waiting for the right used one to come along. Thank you <... I'd make the upgrade schnell, hyaku, like right how. It's likely too late for this angel. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick coral beauty specifically to Bob Fenner -- 4/15/08 Thank you for your quick response. I understand the wit in your seemingly harsh if not rude comments and I often quite enjoy it. However I don't think you gave your comment any thought whatsoever about how difficult catching a damsel in a 30g reef tank is when you called it "... ridiculous. Drain the tank if necessary... it's not that big." I have over 40lbs of live rock covered with coral that was set up to maximize hiding places-NOT the easiest situation to catch a fish in. <... I have been a marine aquarist for... quite a while... and am very aware of just how much work this undertaking entails. Again, it is ridiculous, if you must, in my opinion, to forestall what is simply necessary, to save the life in your care> Did I mention that it is a 30g high making it particularly inaccessible? <... there is no need for such mention> And the option to drain the tank? I can't say that I currently have to capacity to hold 30g of heated, aged, mixed saltwater to immediately fill the tank back up- not to mention how much the coral would appreciate it. <... Could you use a simple trash can with a liner or two in it to prevent contamination? Only has to be drained for a few minutes...> I certainly don't mean to be sounding angry or hurt your feelings (not that I imagine it is an easy thing to do given some of the correspondence that you must receive on a regular basis). <This is so... the not-so-giant risk of affording people as yourself of my free input on the Net... too many hours of doing so for that matter> I have just found that after spending hours upon hours of reading the FAQs, experienced people who write in almost have a defensive if not hostile tone making sure to let you know that they: already looked in the FAQs; that when they mention things like that they have two Centropyge, that, no, they aren't keeping them in the same tank, etc. It just feels like after reading so many entries get ripped apart for the people not researching whatsoever they want to make darn sure that they don't leave you the same opportunity. I guess it could be considered a good thing because you're bringing up a community that makes sure they have their stuff together and has exploited their own resources before relying on someone else. <This is too-often so... and am almost apologetic to really so at times for my shortness/brevity> And by the way, you never did tell me what the paraoral mucosal recession was or what it was from. Any ideas? <Mmm, in a word (and a cheesy simplistic one at that) "stress"... Have seen such syndromes many, too-many times... the too small world, the harassment from the Blue Damsel... who knows what else... This fish will very likely soon be dead. Stress> And just to let you know, I ironically trapped the damsel the same day that the angel died. Thank you for all of the work you have done and continue to do. <I do hope you join us in helping, at WWM... someday soon. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty & Crypt ID 04/14/2008 Hi, <Hello> I have a nice Coral Beauty that I picked up a 3 weeks ago. He's been in my QT since day one. I read on WWM that these guys don't tolerate FW dips (and I'd lost a CB 2 days before after dipping). <Mmm, all a matter of degree... have "dipped" many> So I did all I could to transfer the absolute minimum of the LFS's water into my QT; and I thought I did this well. Now, for the past few days, I'm seeing white spots on the Coral Beauty. The spots are smaller than salt and I'm not sure it's actually Cryptocaryon. In the morning, he'll have numerous spots and they seem to drop off gradually to almost none by mid-day. <Mmm, symptomatic> He's eating well and is always curious of me when I get up close. The QT is 20-gal, bare, with a few plastic/PVC hides. The CB is the only inhabitant. Even though I'm not happy about this guy's health, I AM relieved that I went against the LFS's advice to just put him straight in my display tank because "coral beauties aren't known to carry disease". <Not so> So my question is, do the white spots have to be salt-grain sized to be crypt or can they be smaller; say, like flour? <Yes, can be, are variable in size. The white/spots are actually not the causative organism but the fish/hosts response/mucus to their irritation. More irritation locally equals larger spots...> As to treatment, I have a stock of Cupramine and a test kit. Seachem seems to recommend .5 to .8 and from what I've read, this fish will be sensitive so the dosage should be .5 and no more. <Correct> Does this sound reasonable? Is there a better way to treat this particular fish if it is indeed crypt? <A dip/bath would have been efficacious. Now you are optioned to either risk that, successive vacuumings, or possibly the use of Quinine compounds... lastly the introduction of a specimen with an ongoing infestation of whatever vitality> Since he's alone in a bare QT and I have lots of treatment time all options are open; I'd just like some good advice before I proceed. Thanks always, Mike. <Actually... "time is of the essence"... the longer in "QT" isolation in a small system, the more debilitating/harder on the specimen... stressful. You apparently have a good grasp on your options here... Choose well. Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral Beauty & Crypt ID 4/15/08 Thanks for the reply Bob. Added the 1/2 dose of copper as per the instructions <... Half dose...? What does this mean exactly in terms of concentration? If less than 0.15 ppm at any time, this treatment will do no good... But will be slowly poisoning the specimen> this morning. He was fine & feisty when my wife came home at 5 today but when I got home at 9 he was lying on his side. Sleeping; I presume. : ( m. <... Mmmm... if the light was still on, this is a bad sign. BobF>

Re: Coral Beauty & Crypt ID -- 4/15/08 The Cupramine instructions say to dose 1ml/10Gal then repeat after 48-hours to bring the final dose to .5 ppm. <I see... this should be okay in terms of real/therapeutic dose of cupric ion/concentration> So I administered the first dose in the AM and he was dead that night. <Ahh!> He was eating like a pig but took a turn for the worse I guess; as you describe in your web article on this fish. It's too bad; he was a nice specimen and I really, really liked him...and he cost $40. Your book's excellent by the way. I'm enjoying it. However, I've had bad luck lately. Starting to wonder if I'd get longer-lived enjoyment out of just throwing my money into street and watching the chaos. My display tank is doing pretty good though. <Sorry for your loss. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty eye problem 12/19/07 Hi, We got this Coral Beauty 2 weeks ago. It has developed a bulging eye on 1 side. Sorry it's difficult to get it out of the rocks for a picture. Should I try the Epsom salts treatment and remove him to a QT? <Mmm, I would not... Your pic shows that this eye condition is highly likely due to a physical trauma... there's even a residual "white dot" about and forward of the eye, where the animal bumped into something> He is in a 90 gallon right now. I have a well established 10 gallon nano with live rock and no fish in right now. If I put it in there will Epsom salts harm the live rock in the tank or should I put the fish in a tub? Also here is an exotic vet close to our house that treats fish. Should I bring him there? Thanks, Barb <I would leave this Centropyge where it is... perhaps adding some liquid vitamin prep. to the foods, water will aid in recovery here. Selcon, Micro-Vit... Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral Beauty eye problem 12/23/07 Thanks so much he/she is looking much better. <Ah, good. Thank you for this follow-up. BobF>

Coral Beauty very sick 11/26/07 Hi all... this site is a great source of information and is appreciated beyond measure! I have searched the site and every other resource I can find without success. For the last two weeks our Coral Beauty has been obviously stricken with something and I can't seem to identify it. I'm afraid she will die. We have a 75 gallon with a 2 percula clowns, a wrasse, <What species?> Banggai cardinal, blue tang, star fish, cleaner shrimp and the coral beauty. The first sign was when we turned on the tank light and noticed she was practically white. <This species and many others do "blanch" during darkened hours... and often when frightened/stressed> There are no signs of Ich or anything else that I can see on her. We have had her for a year now and has never faded color. She always eats the mysis shrimp and flake when fed but now she doesn't eat anything I put in. I presume she must be nibbling on the live rock to still be here. <Of a certainty, yes> She lingers on the bottom in the back corner swimming in circles, her tail is rather frayed and getting worse. Often I find her mouth to the gravel and vertical, this can be for 20 minutes at a time! She will lay against rocks motionless for stretches of time as well, then she brings herself back around and starts swimming in circles again. She also seems to be pumping into things more <Bad sign> and at times looks very twitchy. I noticed periodically her breathing is labored which is when she tends to go motionless, like she is just warn out. I've talked with several LFS and no one seems to know what the problem could be. The water tests fine, the temp is stable and the other fish show no sign of anything visibly wrong. Internal parasite maybe? <Possibly> Old age? I am at a loss and fear daily that she will die. Any thoughts on what could be wrong with her? Your time and thoughts are greatly appreciated! Lisa <Reads more like a nutritional deficiency syndrome. I would try adding/soaking the preferred foods with a supplement... Like Micro-Vit or Selcon... these also often act as appetite stimulants. Bob Fenner>
Re: Coral Beauty very sick 11/26/07 Thank you so much for your quick response Bob! I will add the supplements this evening and hope it helps. Much appreciated! Lisa <Welcome my friend. BobF>

Sick Coral Beauty 10/14/07 Greetings, <Salutations> I've had a coral beauty in quarantine for 2 weeks with good results for treating Cryptocaryon with Cupramine (.4 - .5 ppm).? Fish ate well and all signs of Cryptocaryon are gone.? After removing the Cupramine using a Polyfilter, I noticed the fish's breathing rate increased somewhat.? Checked ammonia and found .25 ppm (not good I know).? I think I was just feeding too much for the size of the QT, so I did a 50% water change and cut back on feeding amount and ammonia returned to 0 within a day.? However, the fish's breathing rate is still elevated and I have noticed? the fish's vent (nice word for anatomical part) has swollen and waste is white and sometimes stringy.? Fish has also stopped eating and is fairly listless.? All this in less than a 24 hour period, although I had noticed strange looking waste several days before.? Swollen vent seems to change size.? Suspecting either internal parasite or internal bacterial infection.? Which should I treat and how?? What is the prognosis for this condition?? Thanks for a quick response as I am not sure what to do here. <The observed behavior might be due to the copper exposure alone, general stress, the ammonia... with good care, this fish should recover. Very important that its RBC, hemocyte count not be further impugned... Perhaps a peremptory pH adjusted dip and placement in a stable system is best here. Bob Fenner> Thanks,
Greg

Coral Beauty in QT'¦ Feeding Options, LR in QT 9/2/07 Hi Crew!! <Hi Jennifer! Mich here.> Quick question...I read over the FAQs and didn't see an answer. Here goes. I have a beautiful, healthy coral beauty in a quarantine tank. She's (assumption) <Heehee!> been in there 5 days now and has hardly eaten. I've offered her Mysis shrimp and she'll eat 1 shrimp and that's it. I see her nipping at the glass, like she's trying to eat algae off of it. <Is Possible.> I know the rule about not putting live rock in the QT but would that be ok? <If your not treating with copper or anything, would be fine.> What else could I offer her? <Spirulina, dried algae sheets, any variety of foods... is often trail and error.... though I have heard many wonderful things about Spectrum foods, you may want to give them a try.> Thanks crew!! Jennifer <Welcome! Mich>

Re: Coral Beauty in QT? Feeding Options, LR in QT 9/2/07 Thank you, Mich for the great info! <You're welcome as always Jennifer!> I put a piece of LR in there. she's apprehensive of it at the moment. <Give her time.> In the meantime I'm off to look for your suggestions...thank you again!! Jennifer <Great! Good luck! I hope she's nibbling away at something other than our corals soon! Mich>

Re: Feeding Coral Beauty, James chimes in 9/2/07 Bob, was reading the post below and I'd like to offer my suggestion which has worked for a few Coral Beauties I and other acquaintances have. The Hikari Brine Shrimp gut filled with Spirulina algae has always gotten ours to eat. The food comes in frozen cubes and I might add, very clean of waste unlike other brands selling this product. I am acclimating one at present that refused to eat, so out came the Brine Shrimp/Spirulina (spelling? No time for dictionary now) and the Coral Beauty ate the food with gusto. He now accepts Mysis and Ocean Nutrition flake. James <Thanks much James... will accumulate. BobF>

Re: Coral Beauty in QT? Feeding Options, LR in QT 9/4/07 Hi Mich! <Hi Jennifer!> I peaked in on her last night and she was nibbling away on the rock. <Yay!> I guess since it was a new introduction to the tank she was afraid of it...not anymore. <Double yay!> The only coral I have in my tank is xenia...what's the likelihood she'll pick that clean? <Always a possibility with these angels, but hopefully you will find other foods to offer her that she will prefer to your desirable (???... Always a question when it comes to xenia) corals. Good luck! Hope she's not a coral nibbler as well as a LR nibbler! Cheers, Mich> Jennifer

Re: Coral Beauty in QT -- 09/05/07 Great.. thanks Mich! <Welcome!> She's eating a little more Mysis shrimp everyday. <Ahh good! Do consider soaking the Mysis in a vitamin supplement such as Selcon.> I'll keep my fingers crossed she doesn't eat coral.. haha. <Me too!> I can't wait to get her in the main tank...she's going to be a beautiful addition. <They are pretty fish for sure!> Thank you for all of your advice and support! Jennifer <You are quite welcome Jennifer. Happy to help. Mich>

Re: Coral Beauty in QT 9/7/07 Hey Mich, <Hi Jennifer!> I think I have bad news and need advice. <As Scooby would say: Rut-row!> Two days ago I noticed a white spot on her tail and today I noticed one on her dorsal fin. <Yikes!> She's not flashing. yet. I've read coral beauties are copper sensitive...how accurate is that? <Is accurate. If treating with copper should be kept at the lowest dose of efficacy.> So what is my course of treatment? <Ugh... disease/treatment is really not my forte.> Should I watch her a little longer before beginning a treatment? <I'm really not sure what to tell you, I have read through some of the FAQ's and ScottF suggests the water change procedure to deal with Ich, if this is Ich. You can read this query here: Fighting Ich The Easy Way? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loriculafaqs.htm He also suggests Formalin in lieu of copper. I am going to punt this query over to him and hope he can help you out.> I have Cupramine and CopperSafe on hand if need be and the test kits. <May be helpful, if you do end up using copper, accurate dosing and testing will be very important.> Thank you for all your help. Jennifer <Wish I could be more helpful here Jennifer, but this is not an area in which I feel competent. I think Scott will provide you with better advice. Sorry, Mich> Re: Coral Beauty in QT? Feeding Options, LR in QT'¦ Now With Ich? 9/7/07 Thank you Mich for your help. <You're welcome, I wish I could be of greater help with this matter.> As much as I've dealt with this nasty disease you'd think I would be an expert by now. <Heehee! I guess you're fairly confident this is indeed ich?> Should I send Scott an email? <No, I have sent it to him, and he evidently not had an opportunity to respond as of yet, but this likely being a time sensitive issue, I will also send it to Bob as he will likely be able to respond to it later today.> I've talked to him before and he's very smart. <I whole heartedly agree! Scott's smart and funny, and sincere, and witty, and .... well you get the picture...> I checked out the link and have some questions concerning the water change procedure. <I don't know if you saw these links, but perhaps something here might help http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm > I did do a 50% water change today. Thanks again Mich! Jennifer <Welcome! I do wish I could offer more assistance. Mich> Re: Coral Beauty in QT? Feeding Options, LR in QT'¦ Now With Ich? 9/7/07 <Hi Jennifer: Scott F. chiming in! Mich is right- if you are going to use copper on a Centropyge species, do monitor it carefully, and follow the manufacturer's instructions concerning dose and duration to the letter! To be honest, I would not rush off and start medicating a fish if you're seeing just one spot, or even two. Best on both of you to observe a while longer to see if this is indeed Ich. Perhaps it may spontaneously clear up without intervention. Good food and clean water in a low-stress environment can do wonders sometimes! If it turns out to be Ich, then by all means, choose a course of treatment that you are comfortable with. I personally have used copper with good results, but not everyone is comfortable with it. Stay calm, read up on this disease, and take rapid action if you feel that it is necessary. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Re: Coral Beauty in QT 9/9/07 Hi Mich, <Hi Jennifer.> No, I'm not 100% sure that it's ich. <Me neither.> I've told Bob before that I am ichaphobic. I'm not proud of it, but it's true. <Heehee! The first step is admitting the problem... ;) > I've battled this disease so many times when I see a spot I freak. <Been there, done that'¦> The last time was with a goby and I talked to Bob about it. Turns out he didn't have it, the goby...not Bob..haha. <Heehee! Trust me, Bob can get pretty ichy too!> I've been watching the coral beauty and the spot on the tail and dorsal fin have not fallen off and it's been more than 4 days, not that that's guarantee of anything. <Nope.> Also, not other spots have shown up and she's not flashing. <A good sign.> I'll do another water change today and begin Scott's regimen of treating ich the easy way. Worse case scenario, she'll have new water. <Heehee! Seldom a bad thing!> Thanks again for everything! <Mmm, don't think I was much help here, but you are welcome nonetheless. I do hope your Beauty thrives. Mich> Jennifer

Re: Coral Beauty in QT? Feeding Options, LR in QT? Now With Ich? 9/9/07 Thank you <Welcome Jennifer!> and I hope she survives too. I've become rather attached to her. <I completely understand.> So far no changes in her condition. She is acting as normal as ever. <Good!> I am curious as to what these spots could be. <Me too... Not my area of expertise... I've not had much success here.> I'm leaving her alone as much as possible to keep down her stress level. <I think you are wise here.> Thanks for your handholding! <Glad to! It one thing I can do well in this instance! I'm just not so good with fish disease... ironic I'm a nurse eh?> Hopefully I'll hear from Scott or Bob... <I don't see anything from you in either of their inboxes. Have you rewritten to either?><<Scotter responded to I believe. See here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corlbeaudisfaq.htm>> although Bob may just refer me to elsewhere...haha! <<Oh yes. RMF>> <He's very good at that! Mich> Jennifer

Re: Coral Beauty in QT? Feeding Options, LR in QT'¦ Now With Ich? 9/9/07 You're a nurse, huh? <Yep, kind a scary but, so says the license...> ...I'm studying to become a radiologist. <I'm studying to become a nurse... yes, passed my boards am an RN, at least in title... As of today, becoming one in practice as well!> Is there a direct email address to send to Scott or Bob? <Nope... same bat-time, same bat channel...> I'll send them some questions. <If you address it to Scott, he should get it. I think you will find him very knowledgeable, sincere, witty and helpful.> Thanks again for all your help!! <I'm happy to help! I'm in a helping profession... seems to be a reoccurring theme with me'¦> Jennifer <Cheers! Mich>

Re: Coral Beauty in QT with issue. Waiting It Out (Watching For Potential Disease?) -- 09/19/07 Hi Crew. again! <Hey there!> I'd like to be able to pass along this email to Scott if possible...Scott, I've been talking to Mich about a coral beauty I've had in my QT for 2 weeks now. <Ya' got Scott tonight, working off a MACNA hangover-in for the Divine Miss "M"!> She's (assuming) a new purchase. After a week of quarantine, I discovered a white spot on her tail and then one of her dorsal fin. No other spots have shown up, these have not fallen off and she is not flashing. It has been a week now and there are no changes. <A good sign, but I've never seen Mich flashing, and I certainly did not observe any spots on her this weekend at MACNA!> Originally I was thinking ich (I am an admitted ichaphobe) but now I am rethinking it. She's picking off the live rock I put in the tank. She'll eat the very little mysis shrimp mixed w/ Kent's garlic I feed her 1x/day. <That's really encouraging...I've stated (ad nauseum) over the years that a fish that eats is a fish that lives...so this is a really encouraging sign! I am a bigger fan of fresh garlic extract, from grated fresh garlic. The maximum effectiveness of the compounds found in garlic is achieved by using it fresh. You can always use the leftover garlic in your pasta sauce.> I followed your advice for treating ich the easy way and have been changing out her water with the main tank water just to be on the safe side. That all being said, what could these 2 spots be? I read the articles on pathogens and Lymphocystis. <There are many possibilities, ranging from Lymphocystis to small parasites. It's really tough to tell without seeing the fish or even having a qualified scientist do a pathology study. We may have to make leap of faith that, in the absence of other symptoms or distress, it could be relatively harmless. I've seen these anomalous "spots" come and go on fishes over the years, and I've always gotten better results when I didn't rush to treatment.> Per the article I don't want to treat with any antibiotics, but what is my next course of action and how long should I wait? If these spots don't go away in the next 4 weeks would she still be ok to put into the main tank or would this get passed along to the other fish? <I would most certainly continue to observe the fish in quarantine for a few more weeks (3-4 would be great!). If there are no more issues, I'd go ahead and feel comfortable adding the fish to the display. I just hate to rush into a potentially damaging course of treatment with medications, particularly if there is not certainty as to what you're treating! Good water conditions, healthy food, and careful observation on your part can all go a long way to assure that you'll have a successful outcome with this fish. Of course, you could always let loose with a salvo of copper sulphate...just kidding.> Sorry for the long email...but thank you for all your help!!!! Jennifer <MY pleasure! Regards, Scott F.>

Re: Coral Beauty in QT with issue. Waiting It Out (Watching For Potential Disease?) -- 09/19/07 Hi Crew. again! <Hey there!> I'd like to be able to pass along this email to Scott if possible...Scott, I've been talking to Mich about a coral beauty I've had in my QT for 2 weeks now. <Ya' got Scott tonight, working off a MACNA hangover- <<Oh and what an AWESOME weekend it was!!! I'm still working off the sleep debt! Scott's international debut as a speaker was quite impressive. He has many folks talking! He has quite the stage presence, a stand up comedian, as well as a marine specialist. Scott, ya did WWM proud! Mich>> in for the Divine Miss "M"!> <<Heee! If only I could sing! Mich>> She's (assuming) a new purchase. After a week of quarantine, I discovered a white spot on her tail and then one of her dorsal fin. No other spots have shown up, these have not fallen off and she is not flashing. It has been a week now and there are no changes. <A good sign, but I've never seen Mich flashing, and I certainly did not observe any spots on her this weekend at MACNA!> <<Heehee! You're always a funny man aren't you now Scottie! Mich>> Originally I was thinking Ich (I am an admitted ichaphobe) but now I am rethinking it. She's picking off the live rock I put in the tank. She'll eat the very little mysis shrimp mixed w/ Kent's garlic I feed her 1x/day. <That's really encouraging...I've stated (ad nauseum) over the years that a fish that eats is a fish that lives...so this is a really encouraging sign! I am a bigger fan of fresh garlic extract, from grated fresh garlic. The maximum effectiveness of the compounds found in garlic is achieved by using it fresh. You can always use the leftover garlic in your pasta sauce.> <<Or to keep blood-sucking vampires or potential lovers away! Mich>> I followed your advice for treating Ich the easy way and have been changing out her water with the main tank water just to be on the safe side. That all being said, what could these 2 spots be? I read the articles on pathogens and Lymphocystis. <There are many possibilities, ranging from Lymphocystis to small parasites. It's really tough to tell without seeing the fish or even having a qualified scientist do a pathology study. We may have to make leap of faith that, in the absence of other symptoms or distress, it could be relatively harmless. I've seen these anomalous "spots" come and go on fishes over the years, and I've always gotten better results when I didn't rush to treatment.> Per the article I don't want to treat with any antibiotics, but what is my next course of action and how long should I wait? If these spots don't go away in the next 4 weeks would she still be ok to put into the main tank or would this get passed along to the other fish? <I would most certainly continue to observe the fish in quarantine for a few more weeks (3-4 would be great!). If there are no more issues, I'd go ahead and feel comfortable adding the fish to the display. I just hate to rush into a potentially damaging course of treatment with medications, particularly if there is not certainty as to what you're treating! Good water conditions, healthy food, and careful observation on your part can all go a long way to assure that you'll have a successful outcome with this fish. Of course, you could always let loose with a salvo of copper sulphate...just kidding.> Sorry for the long email...but thank you for all your help!!!! Jennifer <MY pleasure! Regards, Scott F.> <<And Mich chiming in as well!>>
Re: Coral Beauty in QT with issue. Waiting It Out (Watching For Potential Disease?)-Pt. 2 -- 09/19/07
Hi Scott! <Hey there!> Thanks for your response and I'm telling Mich you said that!!!! <Yikes! I'm running for shelter!> Since I last wrote one of the spots fell off. The other is still there. These spots have never been bigger than a grain of salt. <Gosh...it sounds like it's behaving like it could be ich, but it's so hard to say. Generally, this disease manifests itself with many small spots (notice that I said "generally"? Can't be too sure!). None of the other symptoms of this disease seems to be apparent, so I'm not sold on this being ich.> This fish eats like a horse (mysis shrimp w/ Selcon) and is a rather animated animal. This week makes 30 days in the QT. <Excellent work on your part. I'd give it just another week or so to make sure that all remains okay, then move him/her into the display.> I do have another question, if I wanted to positively identify a starfish could recommend a website to use? I think it's a Fromia but it's not exactly like the ones on WWM. <Good question. I can't think of such a resource off of the top of my head, but I know that there must be one out there on the web. Do a search under "Echinoderm Identification" and see what you can come up with.> As always. thank you so much for being my lifeline in the hobby. If it wasn't for you guys I would have quit a long time ago!!! Jennifer <And if it wasn't for you guys, we'd have some pretty dull evenings! Best of luck to you! regards, Scott F.>

Bubbles and Lips, Skimmers and Fish Injury 5/8/07 Good Morning everyone! <Good morning to you.> I have two questions that probably could be answered on the chat forums -- but I can't seem to register right now. I hope that gets fixed soon. <Me too.> I was fiddling with my CPR Bak Pak protein skimmer this weekend. It hangs directly off the back of my display tank and the little pump that came with it seems to be failing. The original pump was a Rio 600 RVT which seemed to do an OK job, but I was never happy with the open face of it. <Standard pump that comes with it, but does not have the greatest reputation for reliability.> Nothing ever got sucked in but I've always been concerned, so I got a MaxiJet 1200 as a replacement. This pump solves the open face problem, but the air intake tubing just being jammed in the filter screen seems a bit cheap to me. So anyway, I was experimenting with using an air pump to force air into the intake of the pump rather than allowing venturi action and I got good results by regulating how much air was sent in ... and it was my intention to pump the rest of the air into a regular air stone in the main tank ... until I realized that I rarely if ever see air bubbles, air stones etc. in marine tanks. So what I'm asking is if there are technical reasons why people don't put air bubbles directly into the display tank? <A couple of reasons, one is that they get clogged very quickly especially with all the life in a marine system. Secondly the popping bubbles make quite a mess with salt spray. The first effects you more here, you will need to change your airstone frequently here.> Second question is about a new acquisition, a Coral Beauty that is alone in a quarantine tank. He eats very well and is very VERY active, spending his entire day swimming back and forth right in front of the glass-- maybe even against the glass. He refuses to use either of the PVC caves I've provided (one white PVC the other black ABS) and prefers to sleep wedged into the suction cups from where the heater used to be (heater was moved to prevent burned CB problems). But his upper lip is a like a thick white stripe. It doesn't look like any sort of growth or covering like a fungus ... as much as it looks perhaps a tiny bit swollen and perhaps rubbed. From all that swimming in front of the glass, maybe? Does this suggest any action other than just further observation? <Sounds like a physical trauma, maybe a shipping injury or even a burn from the heater. Either way just keep up the water quality to prevent infection and observe. I'm guessing with a little time this will heal.> Thanks again!!!! <Welcome>
<Chris>

Coral Beauty Dx HLLE Rx multiple approaches 1/6/07 Hello Everyone, <Hi Carol, Mich with you today.> I just came across your website tonight and thought you might be able to help. I have had my Coral Beauty Angel for about 6 months now. Right after I got it, the new Flame Angel got pop-eye and while treating for pop-eye the Blue Tang got Ich. <Are you familiar with quarantine procedures? If not please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm > Over the course of the next few weeks we lost several fish. <Sorry for your loses.> I got the tank, treatments and fish under control and have looking good water-wise for about 3 months. The only problem left now is with my Coral Beauty. At the end of the Ich, when the other fish either died or got better, it developed white divots around its eyes and down either side of its body. His appetite and behavior has not changed. It seems perfectly healthy, except for these divots. I have asked 3 saltwater fish stores in my area and no body has heard of anything likes this. Can you tell me what it might be and what I can do to get my fish beautiful again? <Does look like HLLE Head and Lateral Line Erosion. Is common in tangs and angels. HLLE is linked with poor water quality, nutritional deficiencies, and the protozoan Octamita (Hexamita necatrix. "Stray voltage" has also been anecdotally associated with HLLE. To try to improve the health of your beauty, you will want to make sure you are keeping on top of you water changes, make sure your tank is grounded, to eliminate any stray voltage, and try supplementing your feedings with a vitamin supplement (vitamin C and vitamin D especially) such as Selcon. Steamed broccoli has also been used to successfully treat HLLE. You can also read more here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs2.htm and here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs3.htm > My tank is a 75 gallon fish only that has been set up for 3 years. Thank you for all your help and time, <Hope this gives you a place to start. Good luck! -Mich> Carol

- Coral Beauty Eye Cataracts? 7/27/06 - Good Morning Gentlemen. <Good morning.> My husband purchased (for me) a previously owned 75g reef tank around May 7th, 2006 and one of it's occupants is a Coral Beauty Angel. The previous owners had this tank for 3 or 4 years so I'm sure on the age of the Coral Beauty but I noticed that she had small white marks (for lack of a better description) on the lower part of her eye or eyelids when we got her. She seems very healthy. She eats well, is very active and interacts well with the other fish. However, I've noticed that these "marks" are slowly getting larger. Could they be cataracts? <They could be, but it's difficult to be certain. If the white areas seem to be growing, do keep a lookout to make sure that it's not just cloudy - cloudy eyes are typically a reaction to water quality issues. You may want to run a test or two and prepare a water change, just in case.> Any assistance would be appreciated. Louise <Cheers, J -- >

Angelfish and white spot, spare the formalin 7/7/06 I purchased a Coral Beauty Angelfish 2 weeks ago. He is in QT. Yesterday, I saw what looked like a white pimple on the front of his pectoral fin. This morning the white spot is gone but his fin is frayed. I thought he might have ich but I am not sure since it was one spot and was gone today. He is eating normally. Should I treat with Formalin or observe longer? <The latter. Is not likely parasitic/pathogenic... the formalin is far likely a source of trouble than help> If I treat with Formalin, do I just do a dip or do I also treat the QT? Or is there something else I need to do? I have looked through FAQ's but still was not sure what I should do. Thanks much for your help, Jana Gibbs <I would not use the formalin here. Too toxic, too stressful to be catching, manipulating this Centropyge. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty HLLE? 7/1/06 Hi, question for you. <Hello John> I currently have a mid size coral beauty in my quarantine system. I purchase him 16 days ago from a LFS. While in the QT he has developed a small patch (approx the size of a match head) on his L side near his lateral line. The area appears to be pale in nature and irregularly circular. At first I thought he may have just bumped against something in the tank but now watching it over the past 15 days. It appears to have grown ever so slightly. Also yesterday I noticed a very tiny pale patch on the R side of his head. Is this the beginning of HLLE? <Possibly.> I feed sparsely (given that he is in a QT) brine shrimp and Omega sea veggie flakes once a day each. <A poor diet such as this can certainly aid in further development of HLLE, if that is indeed what it is.> The QT is a 15 gal long w/AquaClear 200 filter and carbon pouch. Airstone w/pump, heater, small powerhead and PVC piping. 1 gal water is changed daily. If this is HLLE should I attempt to treat it before placing him in my main aquarium or place move him in after he finishes out his QT time figuring the better diet and water quality available in my larger system will fix him. <You've just answered your own question here. Better vitamin (Selcon, Vita-Chem) enriched diet and excellent water quality are the main factors in reversing HLLE. There is no medication, in my opinion, that will effectively reverse this. Do read FAQ's on this also. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm> My main system is a 65 gal w/20gal sump, live rock. Thanks for your comments, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> John

Coral Beauty's eye and Naso Tang Bob, this is the first time I am writing you. I have been reading your FAQ on your website and found it very informative. <Good to hear> I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you can help me out with. I recently upgraded my 50 gallon aquarium to a 125 gallon aquarium. I initially had a Dragon Wrasse, Tomato Clown, Coral Beauty, and a small Blue Angel. Everyone was doing fine after I moved them into the 125 gallon aquarium and after a couple of weeks I went out and bought a small Naso Tang. I started noticing that one of my Coral Beauty's eyes was starting to get cloudy. I didn't want to catch it and put it into a quarantine tank right away because I thought that maybe the Coral Beauty had gotten scratched or something when I netted it and moved it into the 125 so I just left it alone and kept a close eye on it to see if it would just heal on it's own. <Doubt if the Naso introduction had anything to do with the cloudy eye... suspect the cause is what you state... and would have done the same...> I didn't want to stress it out any more especially since I had just gotten done moving it a couple of weeks earlier plus the Coral beauty was swimming around normally and actively eating as usual so I didn't think that it was infected with anything. While I was keeping on eye on the Coral Beauty I was tending to the new Naso Tang and trying to get it to eat. For the first few days it would pretty much hind behind rocks only coming out if I threw in some brine shrimp in there. <Typical... they're actually big algae eaters in the wild> That seemed to be the only thing it was interested in, pretty much ignoring everything else I tried to feed it. After it would eat a little brine shrimp, it would just go back and hide behind some live rock. Initially, I thought it was just shy and not yet accustomed to the tank and was expecting it to become more active when it felt more comfortable. That hasn't happened yet. What I have noticed though is that his fins have started to look like someone has been nipping on them. I have been observing the fish for quite some time and I haven't noticed any signs of any of my other fish being aggressive towards the Tang. <Likely the fraying is from being caught, moved, lack of nutrition...> I have finally moved my Coral Beauty into my hospital tank because it has been about a week and her eye has gotten worse. It is not only cloudy but now has swelled up and gotten very big. I'm not sure what this is and what might have caused it or how to treat it. <Still believe the root cause is mechanical trauma... a possible infection, secondary.> I have also moved my Naso Tang into a hospital tank because I now think that it might have tail rot or something. I haven't noticed any of my fish picking on him so I don't know what else would cause his fin to look like it has been getting nipped. His lack of swimming around has made me think that it is sick but I am not sure what he has and thus have no idea on how to treat him. <I would probably have left the Naso in the main/display tank and hoped that it would have "rallied"... otherwise, a percentage don't adapt to captive conditions (more than half)... and the quarantine system is likely compromised by such an active tankmate... and this fish will unlikely (re)sume eating there.> If there is any advice you can give I would greatly appreciate it. I really liked my Coral Beauty and would have to lose her and I had high expectations of seeing the Naso Tang owning the upper part of my 125 gallon aquarium since all my other fish hang out pretty much in the bottom half of the tank. Thank you. Gianluca <I would wait yet another week on the Coral Beauty to see if the eye will resolve and start to show signs of curing (the cloudiness will dissolve first, but the swelling may take several weeks. The Naso... I would likely place it back in the main tank (be careful of the sharp processes on caudal peduncle) and hope for the best (You do have live rock with some algal material growing on it I trust... in both the display and quarantine systems). If the eye continues to dis-improve I would likely daub it with a cotton-swab and a mercury-based medicant (mercurochrome, Merthiolate, Merbromin) that is used on children. I would wait a good week on this decision as I state... and weigh the damage of handling against the hope of repair of the eye. If the eye appears smooth on its surface, wait. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty trouble (Bob's turn) Bob, I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system. The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc. I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas? <Perhaps "just shock" from collection, being moved about... some Centropyge species are consistently like this... I would either move this animal prematurely (as in not waiting for the whole two weeks quarantine interval) to a stable live-rock equipped tank (through a freshwater bath process), or place some thoroughly cured LR in the twenty with it (as food source and to stabilize water quality)> My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know what to do to try to help this beautiful fish. Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy <Please read through the parts of WetWebMedia.com re "Quarantine", "Dips/Baths", and the genus Centropyge for more background. Bob Fenner>
Coral Beauty trouble (Anthony's turn)
Bob, <Bob just got back from Indonesia and I'm praying to the gods of long term vision that he has not returned with a thong tan. Anthony Calfo in your service> I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system. <good job!> The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc. <for future reference too... play Bob's "deposit game" with them by placing money if possible down to hold the fish and let it sit on import for at least a week if not two. A quick turn around is otherwise hard on a fish> I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas? <the no eating is not a surprise and not that much to worry about. The cloudy eyes is an issue. Do medicate with Furan based drugs to play it safe. Look for secondary symptoms of parasites too> My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know what to do to try to help this beautiful fish. <consider a FW dip if parasites seem evident. Else the antibiotics for at least 5 days. Find an algae covered piece of rock for it to nibble on too> Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy <best regards, Anthony>

Coral Beauty Hello Everyone, Hope all is well. I am in the process of saving a coral beauty from the freezer at the LFS. It is missing an eye and cannot be sold, so I will be taking it home and trying to rehabilitate it. <Good for you.> One eye looks to be gone and is kind of white and slightly fuzzy, not a big nasty fuzzy spot, but kind of fleshy, like when you just lose your eye. It will be going into a quarantine tank <Excellent!> and I was wondering if I should add anything to the water to help the healing process. <1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per 5 gallons of water and a medicated food for bacterial infections would be great.> The tank will be a 10 gallon with a Penguin 125 back filter for circulation, I will not be adding the carbon insert. Should I add some medication, or wait and see if she heals on her own. <I would wait, but be prepared to add a broad spectrum antibiotic if it does not respond to or eat the medicated food.> I know the odds are not in her favor, but she has a better chance in my med tank than she does in the freezer. Thanks a lot, and best regards, Gage <Good luck to you and your fish. -Steven Pro>

New Coral Beauty Angelfish I brought home a coral beauty a day or two ago and I have him quarantined. <Good idea.> He has not eaten any Mysis shrimp as of yet so he has me a bit worried. I was doing some reading and I came across this: "Dwarf angels are susceptible to the common parasitic scourges of ich (Cryptocaryon), and velvet disease (Amyloodinium), and unfortunately sensitive to conventional treatment (copper with or w/o formalin formulations). " My angel doesn't appear to have a disease but I do maintain a small amount of copper in my tank to remove any disease on his body or anything that could infect my main tank. He has no problems other than not eating. My quarantine tank doesn't quite have the macro/micro algae growth that my main tank does so I was hoping he would get by on Mysis until introduction into the main tank. Should I be worried, remove the copper by doing a massive water change, or is his not eating just from being new? I've always read not to be worried if your fish doesn't eat for a day or two. but in my own short-lived personal experience I've never had a fish not eat after the first 24 hours. (notice I prefaced it with short-lived.) <I always recommend that people quarantine their new fish and perform daily, small water changes (10% everyday for the two to three weeks of quarantine. This helps to promote the fish's immune system and helps to remove any parasites. I would start doing this now and allow the copper levels to diminish. -Steven Pro> thanks for the help!!

Coral Beauty Dip/bath Hi Guys! <Howdy> I am bringing home a Coral Beauty from the LFS on Monday. I am very excited and want everything to go well with this beautiful fish and my other fishes. LFS sold me Paraguard for my dip, I asked for Methylene Blue as per your suggestion but this is what they had. Is this safe, I have not opened the bottle yet? <Safe, yes... but not the same general purpose> Also this is my first time at attempting the dip/bath and am quite uneasy about it. Q&A says to start with system water, than add fresh water and Methylene Blue. Do I have it right. I thought about a half gallon of my system water and fresh water, and use the directions off the Paraguard to see how much to add. I have another question that does not pertain to the dip/bath so will send another e-mail, so you can place them in their proper Q&A. <Okay> Thank you in advance for your advice. Sincerely, Lori <Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty Currently I have a Coral Beauty that I have acquired about a week and a half ago. Two to three days after, I noticed that the fish had ich and so I had treated it with something the fish store had recommended. Looks like the ich went away within a day or two after putting in the medication in the tank. Now its eyes look kind of bulging and cloudy. I'm still treating the tank for the ich but what would you recommend for the eyes? <It is probably a secondary infection of some sort. When you have both eyes bulging and cloudy, it is most likely the disease known as (no surprise here) Popeye. This malady is usually caused by bacteria, and usually is indicative of water conditions which need to be improved. This can also be brought on by parasites, but is less likely. There is even the outside possibility that the "treatment" has caused this problem- but not likely. Treatment can be as simple as improving water quality in the treatment tank (you are treating in a separate aquarium, right? If not- you should be!), or, in many cases, treating with medication such as Maracyn. I never advise the casual "dumping" of medication into the tank-sometimes this does more harm than good! Do check the FAQs on disease on the WetWebMedia.Com site and verify if the fish does indeed have this disease, then take appropriate action. You should be able to save this fish with prompt treatment. Good luck! Scott F.> Is there something I can do to save the fish? Thanks, Mary Gonzalez

Coral Beauty Woes Hello crew member of the day. <Scott F. this evening> I have several questions regarding a Coral Beauty I just lost. I have a 55 gallon FOWLR with a Fluval 304, a protein skimmer, two cleaner shrimp, three fish (purple Pseudochromis, percula clown, and tomato clown, {and a late Coral Beauty}) and a few snails. My water parameters are pH8.3, temp 79, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10 ppm, Alk 10,salinity 1.023. <All sound okay> I bought the Coral Beauty a few weeks ago and kept it in a 20 gallon long quarantine tank by itself with a three pound piece of cured live rock for grazing. I had no treatment in the Q-tank but the fish looked healthy with no spots and no trouble breathing and was eating the Formula two food I was feeding it like a monster. I put him in my main tank after two weeks of quarantine and he looked healthy for the first few days. <I'm very happy that you quarantine your new arrivals! But please make it a minimum of 3 weeks from now on, okay? This allows times for many diseases to manifest themselves before getting into your main system> This past Thursday, I noticed one small white spot pop up on his side. I watched him very closely and he did not change his behavior and no more spots arose so I thought no problem that this may just be a piece of sand or dead skin. Yesterday, my cleaner shrimp jumped on the Coral Beauty and the fish opened his gills and mouth and the shrimp helped him for about ten minutes. The fish actually laid down in the sand while the shrimp worked. Today, the Coral Beauty would not eat and would just drift over on its side. After observing this, I put CopperSafe in the bare 20 gallon quarantine tank and moved the Coral Beauty to try and help but I was too late. I was shocked how quickly this Coral Beauty went down with no white spots showing up on the exterior of the fish. I was cautious about premature treating for one spot and now feel terrible. Do you think I can conclude this was a work of Ich with the fish having one white dot show up and the fact that the cleaner shrimp spent so much time in the fishes gills? <Very hard to say from here, but your keen observation of the cleaning process leads me to believe it was some sort of parasitic malady. As you can see, diseases can manifest themselves even after a couple of weeks of quarantine, and don't always show dramatic signs. The reason for his death could have been something else entirely, for all we know. I think you did a great job of taking prompt action with him when he looked ill. Sometimes, despite our best efforts, a fish can die all to quickly?> I also have a few more related questions. Now, my quarantine tank has 20 gallons of water treated with CopperSafe this morning and had a fish I presume died from Ich in it for several hours. If I go buy another fish tomorrow, add it to the quarantine tank, and let it stay there for 28 days, can I assume it will not be able to contract Ick and will be safe to add to my main tank? <Good question, but please don't assume that a new fish cannot become ill in this tank. After every use, whether medication is used or not, you should break down the quarantine tank and disinfect it and any equipment used with it. Then you can set it up again. Remember, a quarantine tank need not be a permanent feature. Simply set it up when you need it.> Also, should I move my three fish from my 55 gallon tank that was shared with the sick Coral Beauty to the quarantine tank for preventive treatment with copper since it is already set up, or should I observe their behavior and move them only if needed? <Another excellent question! If you are convinced that ich was the cause of the Coral Beauty's death, then you would be wise to isolate your remaining fish in the quarantine tank. However, I would observe them in quarantine rather than just medicate. Copper is effective, but it can be hard on fish; don't use it unless absolutely necessary. I'd break down and reset the quarantine tank, then place the remaining fish in it for observation. The main system will go "fallow", free of potential hosts for the ich parasite for 3-4 weeks, and the parasite population (if present) will most likely "crash" during that time for lack of hosts. Better to err on the side of caution, IMO- ich can be tough to get out of your tank once it establishes a foothold.> Is it true that as long as they were healthy when I added the Coral Beauty and I do not stress them now, they will not be attacked by Ick? <Likely, but not guaranteed- hence my recommendation to quarantine/observe them.> IF I buy another Coral Beauty, should I quarantine them with copper as a preventative? <I would not use copper as a preventative. I like the idea of properly executed freshwater dips and observation for 3 weeks. Medicate if necessary.> I also have a question about a Yellow Tang. I would love to buy a yellow tang but am confused about how to quarantine them. In The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, Bob says for the yellow tang just do a freshwater dip with no copper or medications. Does this mean no quarantine at all or do a freshwater dip and then quarantine for several weeks with no treatment and then go the main display tank? <No- he does mean quarantine the fish- just don't use copper as a preventative. Use the dip in conjunction with quarantine.> Can you use copper with the Yellow tang as a preventative? Is that bad news? <As above. Tangs have digestive fauna which can be damaged by prolonged exposure to copper, which is why Bob recommends only using it if the fish is actually ill. If the digestive fauna are damaged severely enough, the fish could die. Tangs, as you know, are big eaters and need to graze continuously.> Thanks for all your help. I just don't want to lose any more fish! Amy <Your questions, observations, and attitude are outstanding! Just make the minor changes that I suggested and you should be fine! Don't let the loss of the Coral Beauty discourage you. Learn all that you can from this sad episode, and you will continue to be a successful aquarist! Good luck! Scott F.>

Quarantine Quandary Hi WWM crew, <Hi there! Scott F. with you tonight!> Sorry to write again so soon. But here is the thing. I just had a very pretty Coral Beauty die on me in my QT. <Must be a lot of that going around with Coral Beauties these days...> I feel I may have killed it but wonder if it might have been the reverse. The tank was started over---here is what I did: I put a new sponge (Whisper) in my main tank for 3 weeks. Then I put in maybe 6 gals of new water and added 4 gals of water (maybe more) from the main tank. <Good, although you could have used 100% tank water, too> The main tank is doing nicely aside from some nasty algae <This, too, shall pass> , but everything is thriving, and it has been going for over a year. The QT sat around like this for awhile. <Remember, a QT is not a permanent feature...You break it down when not in use> Anyway on to yesterday: I had the fish just about two weeks. I had just done a water change (1 gal), this is in a ten gal. This was the second water change. The water change is from my main tank. During the water change I pulled some PVC around and the fish swam about briefly. It looked healthy but has been rather shy. Yesterday sometime or other the fish died. <Bummer...> I was rather busy yesterday and I think pulled the dead fish out today. <Not the best practice, but we all have busy lives to lead....understandable> Post mortem revealed no burning, spots or marks of any kind-- darn healthiest looking dead fish I have ever seen. When the fish was alive I don't remember seeing heavily clamped fins or trouble breathing. I turned the Whisper off last night. Today I did a water test on the Qt and found the following rather alarming figures. I must say maybe I have gotten a little unconscientious on the water tests. <Oops> Both tanks are usually almost boringly stable. Even the Qt. But anyway here are the test results: temp 7.8; S.G. 1.023; ph 8.2; ammonia .6 !; nitrite 1 ! and nitrate 10. <Don't like that ammonia level. or the nitrite level..> To me this looks like a cycle or maybe a recycle. Could a dead fish have caused this? <In a small tank with minimal filtration, it's entirely possible...> Or could the fish have lived that long in water that bad? I know a damsel might but this was a Coral beauty. Or was the tank just too unestablished? (BTW, this doesn't sound too dissimilar to how I have started up a QT in the past.) I can't say I have not had unexplained deaths in the past. Would I see no distress in a fish with this water quality or lack thereof? <You would most likely see distress of some sort...Again, I'd opt to break down the QT between uses...Do test the water during the QT period...Hard to be sure exactly what it was that killed the fish...It could have been the ammonia and nitrite levels, if they were detectible prior to the fish's death...Or- it could have been poor collection practices (entirely beyond your control), etc. Don't be discouraged...Hang in there! Regards, Scott F> BTW, I did look in the FAQs but didn't find anything quite like this mentioned. Also what to do at this point with it? Big water change or let the tank just cycle itself out. Only biomedia is the sponge in the whisper. Thanks. --des

Re: Coral Beauty trouble Bob, Thanks for the advice yesterday, your advice was comforting. Could you tell me what I should feed the Coral Beauty once he is back to health? I know it will eat algae off of my live rock but could you tell me if it will eat meaty foods or if it needs Nori and/or Formula Two. Is the Coral Beauty like the Yellow Tang in the way of having getting HLLE if not given enough greens? <Not so susceptible to this largely nutritional complaint. This Dwarf Angel does eat a great deal of algae and assorted sponges, ascidians (hence the use of live rock in their systems), and do learn to take many types of prepared and frozen foods in captivity. Please read through the Centropyge Angel sections posted on WWM including the FAQs files, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/Centropyge/index.htm Bob Fenner> Thanks again, Amy

Coral Beauty Sick. Hey Bob <<Hi Javier>> I have a 50 gallon saltwater tank running for over a year now and have not had any problems after a rough start. The tank has now stabilized and have not lost any fish in 9 months. The levels are good and I do bi-weekly water changes, keeping the temp @ 81 degrees and salinity at 1.020. I have 70 lbs of live rock and sand, a canister filter and protein skimmer. <<What are the test results, this might help.>> The my stock consist of a yellow tang, a maroon clown, a coral beauty and some small fish (Chromis/Firefish). I feed them brine shrimp (frozen & live), formula 2 flakes, Wardley's marine flake food, Sera iodine enriched granulated food and Nutrafin Max food to keep their diet varied. About two days ago I noticed that my Coral Beauty was acting kind of strange just hovering near the LR without much movement. (Very unlike him). But I went about my routine of feeding them. Normally at feeding time all the fish dart around and head up to the surface and a frenzy takes place once I drop the food in. Everything went as expected except for the Coral Beauty. He did seem to be interested in going after the food, but once near it he just went for it, looked at it and just swam away. Later that night I noticed him in the bottom right of the tank under some rock covering just chilling. (Having a private party). Having my tank for awhile I know each of my fish's behavior at feeding time, at night, w/light on or off, when frightened, during a territory dispute. and where each turns in for the night. Yesterday he was in the same spot at the bottom right of the tank under the LR covering pointing up and tail down. He looks like he has some white film forming on his mouth/lips? A fungus or bacteria? <<Likely bacteria, but could be fungus. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/infectio.htm>> Please help. I did add some Melafix to the tank. Does this stuff really work, a waste of money or bad idea? What is your recommendation? Setting up a hospital tank for quarantine or let him ride it out and not stress him more? Javier <<Melafix is likely not necessary or useful. These problems are the result of poor water quality, nutrition, overall environment. I suggest water changes, green herbivorous foods daily (live rock with algae/microalgae is ideal). Please do follow and read the link above and also go to the FAQ's. Best of luck, Craig>>

Re: Coral Beauty Sick. TThanks, <<You're always welcome Javier.>> I'll check the water parameters again. I did one a week ago and they were normal. None of the other fish seem to be bothered or show signs of illness. I do a water change every two weeks. How much of a water change to you recommend? (Currently 75 lbs of LR & LS). So in volume I may have about 35 gallons? <<Depends on load, type of inhabitants. You have quite a few fish so likely somewhere in the 25-30% range, but this is dependent on many factors, husbandry, feeding, etc. I would assume your volume to be 40 gal.>> On a separate note, I notice strange creature in my tank. I have never seem it before in my tank and have not added any LR or LS since my initial set-up, which was cured. It is the size and of a quarter, flat and somewhat of a circular shape. It is black in color and moves like a slug or snail with two small tentacles/feelers. In the center of the body it has a small white slit, cat eye in look. Once I hit the lights if moved to the dark under the live rock. <<Hard to tell w/o a photo, and maybe not then either! Likely a snail, Trochus, Nudibranch, or limpid. Try this: http://www.tcnj.edu/~maughme2/faq.htm Yours, Craig>>

Coral Beauty and dropsy Whitney Alan Gray wrote: >Hello all, <Hi, MikeD here> > Long time reader, first time writer here today. My question >concerns a Coral Beauty with what I believe to be Dropsy. No other >livestock appear to be affected. I have a 1.5 year old 46 Gal tank >with 50 lbs of live rock, a Hot Magnum, Magnum 350, asst powerheads, a >sea clone skimmer, a UV Sterilizer, and a 288W PC fixture. As far as >stocking goes, I've got a yellow tang, a coral beauty, a lawnmower >blenny, an ocellaris clown, a royal Gramma and a Niger trigger.<Here's part of your problem, with the tank being severely overcrowded, usually a major precursor for problems such as yours> I also >have a feather duster and a Condylactis anemone. Water parameters are >fine, with nitrates being at about 20ppm. > The story with the coral beauty goes as follows: About a week >ago, I noticed a small white speck of what appeared to be fungus on the >coral beauty's side, and a small slit in it's caudal fin. After >several days, the slit had gotten larger, and the fungus was now the >size of a large grain of salt. With this, I decided to medicate (day1) >using Melafix and PimaFix.<These are primarily additives for recent injuries and not true medications, a waste of time as well in cases such as yours.> I turned off my protein skimmer at this >time. Two days later (day 3) I had noticed no improvement in the fin >or fungus, and noticed that one side of its body was swollen, with >protruding scales. At this point, I was still running three week old >carbon in the HOT magnum, so I removed the Carbon, continued using Mela >and PimaFix, and started using Maracyn two.<My suggestion here would be to run both Maracyn and Maracyn II to cover any eventuality as far as gram positive and negative bacteria> Today (day5), the coral >beauty is still very swollen, and its mouth appears to be very red. It >is also breathing very heavily (no redness of gills that I can see) and >the speck and slit in tail are still present. I figured the combo of >meds I was using would have knocked out the small speck of fungus I >saw, but after about four days and no progress, I decided to cut the >magnum 350 (which still had filter media that may be adsorbing the >meds.) I still left the HOT magnum and powerheads running. Within two >hours of cutting the Magnum 350 and dosing the meds, the water was >cloudy, and my yellow tang was also breathing heavily. I looked >around, and found my coral beauty near death, on its side at the bottom >of the tank. I immediately cut the lights, turned on the skimmer and >magnum 350, and re-instated carbon into the HOT magnum. Two hours >later, the coral beauty is swimming around fine (except for the swollen >body, labored breathing, etc- but hey, its not dead!) Several other >observations: my UV sterilizer has been on the whole time<this is a piece of equipment that often to usually is NOT what people think it is>, no other >fish are affected, the coral beauty swims around fine, doesn't hide, >and eats fine. Lately (before speck appeared), the anemone has been >moving around, spewing brown stuff (I thought/think its poop though), >and randomly deflating. Since I've turned the skimmer back on, it >hasn't really removed anything from the water, despite being turned off >for 5 days. I also don't think the swelling occurred until I dosed >with Mela/PimaFix either. The left side of my fish looks like a >pinecone, and it appeared almost overnight. Do you think the >Mela/PimaFix could have caused this (the dropsy)?<Caused it, no, but it certainly didn't help and lulled you into wasting valuable time during which you could have been using the correct regimen of antibiotics> Do you think it is >dropsy?<Actually, it sounds like a bacterial infection aggravated by overcrowding and probably improper diet....remember, dropsy is a symptom, not a disease.> I'm afraid to medicate after what happened today. I know I >need to act fast, but what should I do?<Again, since you have the Maracyn2, I'd add Maracyn 1 but in a hospital or quarantine tank.....you're extremely lucky that medicating your display tank hasn't backfired and caused a total collapse of the system> I thought the meds were >ineffective or being adsorbed my some filter media in the magnum 350 >(like a phosphate remover, and another substance by sea Chem (not >carbon or Zeolite) that I cant think of the name of ... Purigen >maybe?)<I'd be VERY cautious about all of these panaceas you seem drawn to as they can do serious harm, particularly when used in tandem and regularly. My basic advice in this area is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and then fix ONLY what IS broke!>so I shut it off and look what happened. I thought the anemone >could have released some toxin into the water (on some of its >tentacles, there appear to be constrictions, like in a sausage), but if >that were the case, wouldn't all fish be affected and wouldn't my >skimmer be going crazy?<Yes, it would, but anemones don't release toxins into the water. What you were seeing was what you thought it was, an anemone version of a bowel movement. BTW I'd NEVER use products like you describe with anemones in the tank> Sorry about the long e-mail, but I wanted you >to know everything so you could give the best advice possible. I've >never seen anything like this, what should I do to save him?<No need for apologies...try the Maracyn 1 & 2 in a Q tank, improve the diet and you should have a good chance at success.> >Thanks, >Whit

White Blotch on Coral Beauty and Cloudy Water after Feeding (7/29/04) Hi all- <Hello There! Just Leslie on duty for the crew this morning.> I'm a newbie with saltwater tanks, so please bear with me. <No problem at all I was a newbie once and still am in many areas.> We've got a 55 gallon tank - started up in May. Started it off with 6 damsels - 4 survived and are still in the tank (domino, blue devil, humbug, yellow tail). Lucky 4, they are pretty tough little fish with the personalities to go with it. .....I am sure the LFS recommended cycling your tank with live fish but for future reference many, folks are using the fishless cycling methods these days. Cycling is very hard on the fish and it is considered cruel by many.> Water has been tested by local marine aquarium store and they said it looks fine. <Great!> Went through the pioneer algae stage and survived, now getting some green algae (hair?) - cleaning it out weekly by stirring up and filtering out. <Take a look at this article and related FAQs for information on controlling nuisance algae in your tank: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm > Added a Longhorn Cowfish and Checkerboard Hawkfish at the beginning of July - all doing great. <That's great. Do you realize that your Longhorn Cowfish can attain a size of 18 inches and will need a much bigger aquarium in the future? > Here is an article on your Cowfish..... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm Added Diamond Watchman Goby and Coral Beauty Angel this past weekend. <Much better choices for a 55g> On Monday I noticed a white blotch on the side of the Coral Beauty -- I believe it is a fungus. <It's hard to say what is on your Coral Beauty, true fungal infections are not very common. A white blotch, depending on what it looks like could be a number of things.......Lymphocystis is one thing that comes to mind, but there are many diseases that have white specks, spots, patches and areas of pigment loss. This is why quarantining new fish for a period of 4 to 6 weeks, prior to placing them into your display tank with your other fish that are doing well, is essential. > I called the store and they said I could bring the fish back (but I don't want to) or I could try using some peroxide on the fish. Is this the best way to treat the fungus? They said it isn't contagious... I hope not. I've applied the peroxide to the spot and it seemed like a few scales came off... is this okay? < I have never used peroxide directly on a wound on a fish. Mike D. treats cloudy eyes with an 11 to 12 minute dip in a diluted solution of Hydrogen Peroxide. He uses of 7cc of 3% peroxide in 1 liter of tank water. It apparently works very well. There is also a recent article on the use of peroxide for treating Marine Velvet...... http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/index.htm . I don't think losing a few scales is to serious but you should keep a close eye on the area for any signs of infection or worsening of the condition. Wound Control is an excellent product that is used topically for any loss of skin/scale integrity. This article should be helpful..... The Three Sets of Factors that Determine Livestock Health and FAQs: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm > My second question is about my water. It clouds up after I've fed the fish and stays cloudy for a few hours and then clears... is this normal? <Yes, I believe so.> Do I need a better filter (using Penguin 330 double wheel filter and a Top Fin 40)? < A protein skimmer is a good idea in a marine tank of your size. Live rock would also be a good addition if you do not already have it. > The store says my water is fine and think that the fish are just stirring things up when eating... I'm just not sure. <That sounds right on.> Thanks for the help in advance. Denise <Your most welcome, Leslie>

Popeye on Coral Beauty Angel 11/15/05 Greetings! <Salutations> Great Site!!!! <Thank you> Yesterday morning, I noticed my Coral Beauty Angel had a case of Popeye (in just one eye). As the day progressed, it became larger. Thanks to your site, I found that it must be an injury and I can treat with Epsom Salt, which I did yesterday evening @ 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons. This morning the eye looks worse yet. It's eye is very large and now because he's been flicking his eye off of the live rock, he's damaging it. <Mmmm...> Is the flicking because the Popeye is as irritating as it looks, or is there some other problem that I'm not aware of. <Hard to tell... but magnesium sulfate does take a while (a few days generally) to effect positive, visible change> Is there anything else I can do besides wait and pray for the best? Any info would be greatly appreciated Brandy Cook <If the system is otherwise stable, optimized, I would just leave the fish in it, along with the Epsom, and hope. Bob Fenner>

Sick Coral Beauty 9/19/05 Hi Guys <How goes it?> I kinda feel guilty having to bother you, but I have a Coral Beauty in need. <Not a problem, that's why we volunteer :)> I have a 20 gallon tank (a little small) with two protein skimmers, both for 60 gallon tanks and I'm using carbon and Poly Filter with 20-25% water changes weekly. <Sounds good> The water is 78 F, S.G. 1.024 , ph 8.2 , ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-5. <All good> The animals are 1-Coral Beauty (Sunrise), 1-Black Clown (Dab), 1-Banded Shrimp (Aunt Tennay), 1-Turbo Snail (Wetfoot). I've had them for a little more than a year. I was feeding Brine shrimp with Spirulina almost exclusively (my mistake I think). <Not nearly varied enough, and brine shrimp do not provide much nutritional value> I'm now feeding seaweed (red and green), Spectrum dry, an omnivorous and an Angel formula with sponge in it. <Great!> Sunrise has fading color to the point of spottiness in places, lightly tattered fins and has done some twitching and scraping, is losing his appetite and hides too much now. The quarantine tank is ready but I can't figure out if I should use it or what I would do if I did. <Keep up the varied diet...try to get a hold of some live Mysid shrimp (www.Reed Mariculture.com is a great source of live foods of all types) to feed Sunrise as well. Don't make the move to a quarantine tank until you can positively identify a disease. This will hopefully work itself out. Everything else you're doing is fine, so for now it's just wait and see> Thanks for any help you can offer. <Anytime> James <Michael Maddox>

Bicolor angel/disease? 3/4/06 Hi Bob <James today> I'm a huge fan and love your book. <Bob thanks you.> I have a 125g FOWLR tank that's been running for almost three months now. My bicolor angel just started to rub his face against some of the LR yesterday and has no physical signs of any parasites. <May be too early to see.> He's looks good and has been eating fine though. Do you think this is the beginning of ICH ? <Don't know> What should I do right now ? <I'd watch closely and at first sign of disease transfer to QT.> Leave him there or give him a dip and QT for several weeks? I was thinking of doing a five minute Methylene blue dip and QT with Cupramine for two weeks. <I really don't like treating fish unless I know for sure that they are infected. Was the fish in QT before going into the display?> In the main tank I also have: 1 blue throat trigger, 2 Clarkiis, 3 Chromis Your help is highly appreciated. It's a tough hobby, <Not so tough, as long as we don't make it tough.> buts it's people like you who keep us going ! thanks <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Peter

Coral Beauty, Pimple on Pectoral Fin--Popped? - 2/15/2006 (This is long, because there is a lot of background. Per your WWM-etiquette page, that's how you want it, I hope. The basic question is what I should do about a pimple that looks like it either became a whitehead or popped on my 3-4 week Coral Beauty in the Quarantine tank.) <Mmm, the basic response: No...> Hi. Thanks so much for the site. I spend several hours a week reading the site since finding it last summer (summer 2005). Anyway, I have a 55 gallon display tank, and a 27 gallon QT, in which my problem arose. (tank specs are below) I only have (1) 4 1/2" Tang and a 5" Maiden Goby in my display tank (along with a sizeable cleaner crew). Oh, I did add 5 Berghia Nudibranch(es?/I?) <Just "s"> about a month ago to take care of an Aiptasia problem, but I'm not sure if they are doing much or not-haven't seen them for about three weeks, but that's an aside. Anyway, about a month ago I purchased 3 white and black striped Humbug Damsels and a Coral Beauty from my LFS. Basically, my wife has been harassing me for months that I need some more fish in my display tank, so I took her with me and let her pick out some suitable (to both of us) community fish. The guy at the store said that Coral Beauties are super sensitive to changes in water, so I drip acclimated it for about 2 1/2 hours, and the Damsels for maybe an hour or so. I did not do a freshwater bath, particularly for the Coral Beauty because I was concerned I was going to kill it due its alleged sensitivity, and because I really didn't know "how" to do it (had a couple casualties a year or two ago leading to this fear). I just recently found that article on using Methylene Blue freshwater dips, so I'm set there for the future. The largest of the three Damsels began pestering the smaller two almost immediately upon putting them in the QT (I have about 7 pounds of LR, for hiding, etc.). The day after I bought the fish, I noticed that the Coral Beauty had a 1/4" to 3/16" pink pimple looking thing where its left pectoral fin connects to its body (couple photos at the following URL, but it's not very photogenic). http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/russjohnson/album?.dir=850f&.src=ph&store=&pro did=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos <I see it, but just barely> I searched your site, and couldn't find anything that made me concerned about the pimple, so I just kept an eye on it. I thought it may have been from a lack of iodine, because this tank had been fallow for at least two or three months (running, but with 1" of live sand, the rocks, a large Penguin Charcoal filter, and some snails). My Tang got Ich in October '05, so I moved him and the Goby up there to treat-they both are happy now. Other than a couple water changes, I really haven't touched the QT since they moved back downstairs to the display tank, so that's why I added some extra iodine and Kent's Essential Elements recently (about 5-20ml of each about 2-3 times a week). I did change the QT water before adding the new fish and made sure the water quality was near perfect. I thought the pimple may have been from a lack of iodine due to some reading on the site...again not sure, it was probably there when I bought it-moral of the story is I shouldn't let my wife pick out fish, but this whole process has really caused her to take some more interest in the fish, so that's a good thing, if nothing else. Quarantine Tank Specs: SG: 1.019 (I'm slowly raising it after Ich treatment) <Good... 1.025> Temp: 83 (again, lowering due to Ich treatment) pH: 8.2-8.3 Nitrates: ~20 (yes, I was surprised, I'll do a 50% water change after this email; it was <10ppm about 10 days ago) Ammonia: Zero Copper: ~.5 to .75ppm <Get rid of this> Anyway, so about a week into the Quarantine, the pimple was unchanged, but the Coral Beauty had developed Ich (could it have been from not breaking the tank down?). <Likely the fish had it... the tank is parasitized...> The big Damsel had already killed the smallest Damsel (now I know why they are called Humbugs), and will have killed the other one a couple days later. Damsels all looked healthy otherwise, eating/swimming, so I'm pretty sure they died due to bullying (and I observed the relentless bullying). As for the Coral Beauty, I figured that 3mo would have been long enough in the QT for the parasites to die and not worry about transmitting it to these new fish, but in the future I will break down this tank, to eliminate the possibility of Ich transmission. My wife wants the top of her dresser back anyway, so everyone is happy. As soon as I noticed the Ich spots develop, I began to treat with copper. I'm pretty sure it was chelated copper (the kind that stays in the water longer), <If not the fishes would be dead at this concentration> but the package was silent on this fact. I raised the copper level to 1.5ppm, and the Coral Beauty's condition worsened slightly over the next couple days. <Centropyge are more sensitive to copper exposure...> I bumped it up to 2.0 for a week or so, and the Ich went completely away in about a week. Oh, I should also mention that I added a week's worth of Maracyn-Two during that time, to eliminate the possibility of any secondary infection, based on some advice I read. The Ich on the Coral Beauty went completely away in about a week after bumping up the copper. I checked the copper level about twice a day to verify it stayed at 2.0ppm. After a week of the high copper levels I concluded (based on the advice on your site) that the Damsel developed copper poisoning (began swimming around erratically, the next day, swimming sideways a lot, sitting on the bottom of the tank, breathing hard, died after about 3 days of this). Having to choose between the Coral Beauty and the Damsel, I chose to keep up the copper up to cure the Coral Beauty (the Coral Beauty had /just/ began to be free from the Ich spots, and I know I needed to keep up the levels another day or two, to be sure she was cured). About 7-10 days after all the symptoms went away, I added a new carbon filter and a couple days after that I filled up the plastic refillable sleeves in the filter with new carbon to get rid of the copper. As noted, I am doing a water change tonight as well. However, after coming home from out of town last night my wife said that she thought the Coral Beauty was getting Ich again. It isn't, but here is my question-finally. She was correct that something changed: the pink pimple I mentioned earlier now looks just like an acne pimple that "popped". The pimple had begun to shrink since the Ich was gone (now about 1/8 inch), and apparently over the weekend it "popped". What my wife thought was the White Spot of Ich is definitely some sort of substance coming OUT of the pimple. Am I just overly paranoid here? I have read a couple articles were you guys wrote that sometimes fish just get pimple-type things and it's nothing to sweat. Should I cut the pizza and chocolate out of the Coral Beauty's diet? (Heh, Heh, just kidding) <Mmm> I have searched and searched, is this something I should be concerned about? It is otherwise normal, eats everything I put in the tank (she prefers anchovy pizza), and has cleaned off all the algae on the back of the tank, likes hiding out in the rocks, and seems happy. In searching the site, I thought /maybe/ it was Lymphocystis, or a tumor (that's the other reason I was bumping up the Iodine so much). I'm not sure it's Lymphocystis though. It seems that Lymphocystis usually attacks the ENDS of the fins, rather than the base of the fin. Moreover, the white spot/puss, doesn't look like cauliflower (though frankly this isn't a helpful description, b/c if I ever let a growth on one of my fish get to the size that I could identify its shape as something other than a spot, I should not be keeping marine fish). I guess when I saw the white puss/spot at the tip of the pimple, I thought this was good as if it is popping, but I really have no idea of knowing without you guys' (and gals') help...what do you think? <This spot is/was likely "nothing" catching... a pimple is a good analogy> Should I get a cleaner shrimp for the QT? <You could> I think I read that the Lysmata are not reef safe, so I couldn't throw them in the display tank later, right? What about the Periclimenes, or Stenopus? <Not my other choices here, no> There is a Peppermint shrimp in there right now too. Any other advice? <Learn to treat/dip and quarantine all new livestock... investigate before you buy...> It molts about 2x a month, and had babies in the display tank. When does the quarantine clock "start" now? When the pimple goes away, or when the symptoms of the Ich were not visible? <Not following you here.> Finally, have you guys ever heard of "Quick Cure"? It purports to cure Lymphocystis. ( http://www.petguys.com/pet-guys/-042781008000.html). Seems surprising to me that there is a "cure" if it is a viral disease... Man, so many quacks out there... <There is no cure for Lymph... viral in origin. This material is formalin (a biocide) and malachite green... Covered on WWM> Thanks in advance, you guys (and gals) rule. Russ, Columbus, Ohio <Apply yourself Russ... you'll do fine. Bob Fenner>

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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