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Small Marine Aquariums
Book 1:
Invertebrates, Algae
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eBook on Amazon:
by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
Small Marine Aquariums
Book 2:
Fishes
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eBook on Amazon: by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
Small Marine Aquariums
Book 3:
Systems
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eBook on Amazon:
by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
Angelfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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New Print Book on Create Space: Available
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
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Diploastrea Feeding, Centropyge Suitability
3/2/15
Dear Bob (or other Crew),
<W.K.>
I was wondering if you might be able to provide your opinion on a couple
of questions I have.
<Let's see>
1) I have a Diploastrea, which has been in the tank for 2 months and is
showing signs of what I assume is normal behaviour (polyp
retraction/extension, light-sensitivity, eating behaviours, growth/polyp
budding). However, I have also occasionally noticed it apparently
"eating" fragments of various macroalgae pieces that have been floating
around my tank.
<Mmm; most such corals... Faviid... now in a sep. family Diploastreidae?
Are nocturnal feeders... on zooplankton principally... can learn, do
learn to open during daylight... not cultured as yet as far as I'm
aware>
When doing this, the polyp involved appears to hold the algae in its
mouth (at the centre of the polyp) in much the same way as it would do
to its normal food when I target feed, and this hold appears quite
strong as the local current can exceed 15cm/s. I have always assumed
such corals are carnivorous, and I have never directly observed any
polyp completely ingesting an algal fragment, so it could simply be a
case of mistaken identity,
<Sure... there can be chemical cues on what appears to be "solely" algae
et al.; that my contain other life>
and the algae is spat out later on, but polyps can sometimes hold onto
the algae for at least an hour, which strikes me as rather deliberate
behaviour. Is this normal behaviour, do you think, or could my coral be
starving and thus desperate to eat
anything it can get its mouths on?
<I don't consider this behavior aberrant... i.e., I'd list it as normal>
2) I previously wrote to you about stocking my tank with a fish, and
after hesitating, reading and re-reading what I could find on the
subject, I think I have decided on a single Centropyge argi or
aurantonotus for my tank. That said, I would like to run my proposal
past you one final time, just to make sure my choice is actually
suitable. Tank details as follows (apologies if some of it is
superfluous):
<Ok>
My system is a stony coral reef tank of volume 240L (60gal) with a 0.5in
SSB, and an upstream 80L refugium with a 4in DSB. The main tank (where
the fish will reside) has a footprint of 48in*18in. The main tank
contains about 25L of LR (estimated by measuring displacement), and I
use a Tunze 9006 skimmer for nutrient export, although at 30% efficiency
at present. I maintain tank temperature between 26 and 28 deg. C and
water chemistry suitable for Scleractinians; from the fish's point of
view, this is salinity 35-36ppt, nitrates consistently undetectable
<Cnidarians DO need some NO3>
and phosphates less than 0.03ppm (Salifert kits). Flow in the tank is
somewhat chaotic with a total turnover exceeding 12000L/hr (i.e. 50x)
provided by powerheads, and lighting is a DIY system sufficiently bright
to support Acropora. The other intentional tank inhabitants are six
Lysmata spp. shrimp,
<Keep your eyes on these... may be too many, walking over your stony
corals>
various snails and a number of Scleractinians (Pocilloporids,
Acroporids, Diploastrea and an unidentified, possibly Agariciid), and
there will be no other fishes at any time apart from the dwarf angel. I
have attempted to arrange the rockwork loosely, with caves and a couple
of swim-throughs, but I didn't do it that well,
<Can be re-done; next time you get a hankering>
as most of these are quite cramped and I think will only just admit an
adult-sized fish. There is, however, space to swim at the back and sides
of the rock mounds. The LR itself was cured on purchase and 3-5 months
old; it appears established with a fair amount of macroalgae (at least
20 species of which I hope at least some is edible) and a moderate
coverage of sponges in the sheltered areas. The refugium (5 months old)
also appears to be producing a fair number of Mysid shrimp in addition
to other things and rocks placed in it will grow sponges in a number of
weeks, so I can swap them out to provide extra grazing if necessary. I
intend to feed the fish with what I feed my corals (DIY recipe,
blended/frozen and mostly meaty = 30% fresh oysters, 30% other
shellfish, 15% D-D clam/filter feeder powder, 10% reconstituted algae,
remainder liquid vitamin mix), a pellet food (probably ON Formula Two)
and dried algae sheets. I do not have a quarantine setup (I'm sorry to
say), but plan to dip the fish with freshwater/Methylene blue before
introduction.
<Sounds good>
The reason why I would like a fish is primarily to provide some
pollution to help feed my corals (I still can't increase nutrient levels
above barely detectable despite regular feeding) and to graze some of my
macroalgae, which I have only partially controlled in anticipation of it
being a necessary food source. I expect the fish will also be
interesting to observe, but to be brutally honest, I am more interested
in corals/non-vertebrate life than fish, so this is only a secondary
consideration. I understand that there is a risk with dwarf angels
nipping or even consuming my corals, but I am willing to accept this
(and to remove the fish if destructive) assuming the tank is otherwise
suitable. The only negative thing I can think of is that the tank is on
the smaller end of the acceptable range for small Centropyge species.
<Yes; the smaller-est>
So in total, do you think my tank is a suitable habitat for a C. argi or
aurantonotus (or if not, any other dwarf angel species)?
<Yes>
Also, do you think it is reasonable to get one of these fishes mainly
for the purposes of converting food/algae to waste in an otherwise
low-nutrient reef tank?
<And yes>
If so, is my feeding plan sufficiently diverse for a dwarf angel?
<I do>
Many thanks for your assistance,
Wesley
<A pleasure to share w/ you. Bob Fenner>
Cherub angelfish distressed/mal-contended 2/23/13
Dear Bob
<Heya Joe>
I have a mature cherub angelfish, who has been resident for several
years now, and until recently was ostensibly content.
<Like your adverb choices/use>
Now, though, he spends the majority of his time swimming up and down
against the back of the tank, and doing a manic loop of this area
through the rockwork etc. He will only break off from this
behaviour to feed, which he still does with gusto. He is otherwise
in good health.
<Mmm, can guess w/ some confidence re what is going on here>
The only thing I can think of, is that this behaviour only began after
the rapid and unexplained demise of his female cherub angelfish
companion, with whom he had been displaying, and generally cavorting
with (you may recall an earlier email regarding my unfounded fears at
introducing them). Do you think it might be the case that, now
being a mature fish, he is keen to get on with the business of gene
continuation, and is thus looking for the way out of the aquarium, to a
place where there will be other cherub angelfish?
<This is doubtless a contributor>
Other fish and invertebrates are not displaying any changes of behaviour
or health. The only water parameters that have changed are higher
calcium (445ppm) and alkalinity (9.3dKH), due to increased use of
supplements.
Any input you could provide as to the reasons for his manic, unhappy
behaviour would, as ever, be most appreciated.
Thanks
Yours
Joe
<I fully suspect the one Cherub is interacting w/ its reflection in the
side wall of the tank... do tape a piece of paper over one end (you
can't see the internal reflection from the outside), and you should soon
see a change for the better in its behavior. Bob Fenner>
Cherub angels, pairing/repro. 10/13/12
Hi Bob
<Joe>
I have a mature cherub angel who has been resident for about 3 years. He
is about 9cm long,
<Big!>
and a confirmed killer (one incidence - my fault).
<Yikes!~>
My research suggests this species starts female and flips when bigger. I
have now seen a 3cm long specimen, and would like to try pairing it with
the specimen I have. What are my chances of success?
<If there's enough room... pretty good>
At this small size,
is it safe to assume it is a female?
<Likely so>
Do they pair willingly or is it usually fractious/fatal?
<Usually this species is found in a 5-7 individual harem setting... most
all females, one alpha male...>
As the song goes, We don't want no more war It would make me very happy
to enrich the life of my current specimen, but not at the cost of
risking the life of the little one.
<Do try the trick of catching, holding the extant male in a plastic,
floating colander in the system for several days while the new female
gets familiar w/ the tank... letting the male out on a day when you can
be present to watch their behavior; assure they're not going to fight
much>
Regards
Joe
<And you, Bob Fenner>
Re: Cherub angels, comp. and acclim. f's
10/25/12
Hi Bob, thanks for your response, quick follow up to let you know what
happened:
<Okay>
Firstly, 9cm was way off the mark, he's more like 7.5cm! Got a bit
carried away there.
Anyway, after a weeks' worth of attempted trapping, involving baited
cola bottles etc, no luck. Predictably, the angelfish never went
anywhere near it!
Helpful LFS guy suggested 24hour black-out technique, so I took the
gamble, purchased the female, and cladded up the tank. 24 hours
later and blankets off, was impressed at the effect this had on the
resident fish - they were confused, wary, uncertain.
I am happy to report that the introduction has been a success - it is
marvelous to watch them interact!
<Ahh!>
I think I will be using the black-out technique again, for new
introductions. As the LFS guy said, it seems to 're-set' the tank
temporarily, giving new additions a foothold.
<Yes; better than simply turning the lights off>
Thanks again
Yours
Joe
<Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Bicolor Cherub (Angel), hlth. 6/6/12
Hi Guys and Gals, you have helped me in the past and now I just have a
quick question for you. There is a Bicolor Cherub at my LFS and
it's beautiful with the exception of it's lips looking almost a little
fuzzy.
It just arrived today and I came home and have been reading about them
but haven't found anything about a lip disease or anything that would
make it's lips like that. Do you think it could just be from it
eating algae off of a rock??
<More likely rubbing its face on a bag in transit, or on the side of a
cubicle...>
Or is there a lip disease that I haven't found info on?? Thank you
sooo much in advance...and I'm sure I'll be asking for your help again
;) -Tina
<I'd leave it at the shop a few days... perhaps put a deposit on it if
you're very interested. Bob Fenner>
Re: Bicolor Cherub (Angel) – 6/6/12
Thank you sooo much, I appreciate your quick response!! You all
have a wonderful rest of the week :)
-Tina
<Thank you Tina. I would just wait on this fish to self-heal.
BobF>
Centropyge flavicauda tank size
6/27/11
Hello!
<<Hi Tyler.>>
I have a 14 gallon BioCube mixed reef with LPS and
some mushrooms, and I was hoping I could add one Centropyge
flavicauda.
I have a few years experience, including experience with a Nano
reef.
<<I would not, though 2.5" is still common, this fish can
attain 3" and being a Centropyge it needs more live rock and
surface area to swim and "browse" in the long term. Even for
the smaller Centropyges, I usually recommend against them in anything
less than a 40 gallon breeder with as much live rock to forage on and
"patrol.">>
In terms of other critters, I only have one other fish: A small and
inactive Flametail blenny, one of the few CB flametails from MACNA
XXI.
There are also 3 blue leg hermit crabs in the aquarium. Thanks for all
the work you do and the excellent advice on your website!
<<Thank you and you are welcome in turn. Good luck.>>
Tyler
<<Adam J.>>
Centropyge flavicauda Tank Size (Much more than 14g.) --
06/30/11
Hello!
<<Hey Tyler>>
I have a 14 gallon BioCube mixed reef with LPS and some mushrooms, and
I was hoping I could add one Centropyge flavicauda.
<<Mmm'¦not in 'my' opinion>>
I have a few years experience, including experience with a Nano
reef.
<<This system is simply 'too small' for this fish. While
being one of the smaller dwarf angels, these fishes still need a
minimum volume of 40 gallons in my estimation and experience. These are
active fishes that will decline and/or develop abhorrent behaviors in a
too small system>>
In terms of other critters, I only have one other fish: A small and
inactive Flametail blenny, one of the few CB flametails from MACNA XXI.
There are also 3 blue leg hermit crabs in the aquarium.
<<Considering the size of this system, current stocking, and the
long-term good health re'¦you are pretty much 'full
up' in my opinion>>
Thanks for all the work you do and the excellent advice on your
website!
Tyler
<<Happy to share'¦ EricR>>
Just a quick stocking question. 11/14/10
Hey Crew,
<Eli>
I have a 27 gallon aquarium, Which currently houses
one orange spotted shrimp goby, two peppermint shrimp , two scarlet
hermit crabs and a couple of blue legged hermits. Along with some
pulsing xenia and metallic green star polyps. I wanted to add maybe one
or two more fish and be completed with my setup. Aside from corals and
more live rock to be added later. But back to my question do you think
it would be ok to add a Pygmy angelfish (*Centropyge argi)
followed by a Sixline wrasse? *
<I do think the Cherub would be a fab addition, but if you go w/
this Pseudocheilinus species (I would not) DO keep an eye on it... this
sp. can be VERY picky, as in picking on other livestock, particularly
in small volumes such as yours>
*Thanks in advance for any info!*
*you guys are awesome.*
**
*Eli*
<Thank you. Bob Fenner>
Re: Just a quick stocking question.
Thanks so much for your quick response! On your advice I won't even
try the six line wrasse. Do you think 2 or 3 blue green
Chromis would be alright or am I borderline
overstocking?
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/chromis.htm
and the linked files above. B>
Thanks again,
Eli
Re: Just a quick stocking question. 11/14/10
I immediately read your link. Definitely got my answer, I think ill
just stick to the angel. Thanks so Much for your input.
Eli
<Ah good. B>
Possible tumor on cherub angel? 6/13/10
Hi, thanks for taking the time to read this. I have a 37-gallon marine
FOWLR aquarium. I'm in the process of getting it set up as a reef
tank but need to replace the skimmer first (I have a SeaClone and it
takes constant tinkering to get it to actually produce skimmate on a
regular basis). The aquarium has two power heads for circulation (but
one now, which I'll get to), a small internal Eheim canister filter
(just used as a place to put activated carbon, mostly), a refugium
(containing live sand, rubble, and Chaetomorpha), roughly 25 pounds of
liverock (mixed with 20 pounds of base rock--most of which is live by
now), and a deep sand bed. I grow Ulva sea lettuce (which is weeded out
every week since it grows so fast) and some sort of other macroalgae (I
don't know the name but it's purple and grows in tufts) among
the rock. The temperature is normally kept at 81 degrees Fahrenheit
(but in the heat has been higher on certain days lately--up to 84),
<I'd leave the light/s off on those/these hot days during the
day>
specific gravity is 1.024, ammonia is 0, nitrite is 0, nitrate is
<5ppm, and pH is 8.3. The tank has a healthy population of various
pods, worms, mini stars, etc. and has been set up for about two years
(both fish, however, were bought within the last couple of months and
the tank had gone a while without any fish after I lost a couple fish
in a row and became discouraged...turns out my issue was where I was
buying them but that's another story). My tank is stocked as
follows:
1 cherub angelfish (Centropyge argi)
1 false percula clownfish
1 feather duster (not sure on the species but I've had it for a
while and it seems very healthy)
3 blue-leg hermit crabs
2 bumblebee snails
Unknown amount of small hitchhiker crabs (I've seen two at once but
don't know if I keep seeing the same ones) and snails I've been
away from home for an internship and have been coming back
once a week to do water changes. In my absence, my brother has been
maintaining my aquariums (topping them off, turning lights on/off, and
feeding fish pre-measured portions of food). A couple days ago, he
mentioned that my angelfish had been hiding a lot (she normally
doesn't swim in open water but is usually seen weaving in and out
of the rock and grazing). I got home last night to find that she was
still hiding. I performed a 10% water change and this morning she came
out and has been swimming around normally since then. That was when I
noticed a large lump on her side. It's something internal and the
scales are raised slightly in that area. She's also not eating as
much Mysis shrimp as she normally does (the only prepared foods
I've been able to get her to eat are frozen Mysis shrimp, brine
shrimp, and plankton) but she's still munching on macroalgae and
grazing on the rock, sand, and glass. I saw her scratch the lump
against a rock a couple times earlier but she hasn't done it again
since (that really concerned me, though). I can't get a picture
because going too close to the tank makes her dart into a cave.
Some recent environment changes:
-One of the powerheads died at some point in the past week (and I
won't be able to replace it until next week)
-Some of the sea lettuce got loose and clogged the Eheim filter (has
since been fixed)
-My brother maintaining the tank, although I don't see much room
for error in his instructions
-The heat raising the water temperature
What could it be and what should I do?
<Mmm, first off, I want to comment re your accounting and set up
here. Thank you for writing so clearly, completely. Now, as to the
"growth"... it really could be one of a few things... an
(idiopathic or other) tumour, a resultant "bump" reaction,
some sort of subdermal parasite...>
I really, really don't want to lose this fish. At the same time,
though, I'm leaving again tomorrow afternoon so I can't do any
complicated long-term treatments (technically, I could set up a
10-gallon and take her back with me but the stress will probably do
more harm than good). I will be doing another water change tonight,
though. Also, any suggestions on getting her to accept pellets and/or
flakes?
<Yes... try Spectrum (brand)... mix in w/ other preferred foods for
a while... adding more of the Spectrum... This food is highly palatable
and completely nutritious (is what I use BTW)>
I've tried pellets and flakes by Ocean Nutrition, Omega One, and
Hikari. She had a little interest in the Ocean Nutrition pellets but
spit them out. She didn't even go after the other ones and
won't touch flakes. If this is a nutritional issue, I want to get
her on a healthier diet.
<Agreed>
Sorry for writing so much but I wanted to provide as much information
as possible.
Thanks in advance,
Stephanie
<Mmm, well... you could try a blitzkrieg sort of approach and add an
antiprotozoal (Metronidazole likely) and an Anthelminthic (perhaps
Praziquantel) to the food... or maybe even Levamisole directly to the
water... Or try bolstering this fish's immune system/strength via
nutrition as you allude to... Or, wait and hope that this area resolves
by itself...
I don't have a strong feeling as to what route I'd go here. Bob
Fenner>
Centropyge flavicauda (Pacific Pygmy) compatibility
question 2/10/10
Howdy,
<Yee-Hah!>
Hope this email finds it's designated WWM crew member doing well
this evening.
<Indeed it does, Liz, thank you!>
I've been doing some reading about dwarf angels on the site tonight
(since WWM is my absolute favorite research site on the web!) but
haven't found any references to my particular angel.
<The care considerations are similar for all, with just a few
species specific variances>
I have an approximately 2 year old Pacific Pygmy Angel. I got her about
3 weeks ago from a local reef club member. She's a very healthy and
precocious little fish who I assume at 2" in length is fully
grown.
<Fishbase has this fish listed at 8 cm, which is just over 3'
http://www.fishbase.org/summary/speciessummary.php?id=5664>
Would it be possible to add a second angel to my tank, specifically a
Coral Beauty?
<Possible, yes, but I personally would not. I have had two
Centropyge in a 180 before and they fought>
I know some of the Centropyge angels mix better than others.
<Yes>
Not sure how to gauge the temperament of mine and info online is
minimal.
<You have to ask yourself -- is it worth the risk? Do you know how
difficult it is to get one of these fishes back OUT of a six foot tank?
If, like me you did, then you would be thinking twice.>
I also keep reading to add the angels together when they are
'small'. Well, my angel is small but mature. Not sure what to
make of that advice! I hate to assume that size and not age/maturity is
the critical deciding factor.
<Mmmm, the 'critical deciding factor' here is not one you
can find in a book or on a webpage. It depends on your fishes and what
'they' decide is going to happen>.
I have a 125g tank with well over 100lbs of very live rock (including
some algae growth for my herbivores to nibble on that is declining but
still there. I also feed frozen Formula 2 and put dried Nori sheets in
the tank every couple days, feed frozen Mysis for the clown which the
other fish like as well).
<Yes, this diet is good, I would supplement w/ some vitamins & a
pellet, maybe NLSpectrum>
Myriad soft corals and a few LPS and SPS (all of which the angel
ignores).
Currently I only have an Ocellaris Clown, a Yellow Tang (2") and
the pygmy angel (along with a whole host of your standard CUC critters
and a Cleaner Shrimp). I intend to keep the stocking rate relatively
light for the health of my fish but do plan to add a couple more
inhabitants including a Blue Hippo Tang and another Ocellaris
Clown.
<I would stick to your plan sans the second Centropyge here. You
have plenty of fishes planned, I would not consider it light at all
with the addition of a Paracanthurus -- this is a large and messy
fish>
I'm looking forward to input on the feasibility of adding a second
angel. So much better to hash these details out ahead of time instead
of when the fish is at home waiting to go in the tank....
<Yes, this is definitely a question worth asking before
jumping>
Take care and much thanks for the tireless efforts that make the WWM
site so great!
<No problem Liz, and thank you as well!>
Liz
<Simon>
Pygmy angel fishes harem and marine set up
10/9/09
Hi All,
<M>
I have been reading wet web media for the past 2 years. Thanks for the
good advice so far!!
<Welcome>
I have upgraded recently to a 50 gallon bowfront setup and I am
planning on having a LPS reef setup.
Details of setup:
Filtration:
My other reef tanks has been up and running for 3years and 40 pounds of
live rock form other established tanks has been added to this tank as
biological filtration.
I have a overflow system with a 15 gallon sump. I run active carbon in
the first compartment of the sump and also have filter floss in the
first compartment which is replace every other week, 6inches of live
sand and coral rubble with a plenum (please comment on whether you
think this is a good practice)
<I do think so>
in the second compartment and a protein skimmer in the third
compartment.
Lighting:
I have 1 150 Watt metal halide bulb 14 000 Kelvin
2 blue T5 bulbs 20 000kelvin Marine Blue (I am uncertain of the
wattage, bought this as a unit with the metal halide bulb I'm
guessing around 48Watt each)
I have CaribSea dry aragonite - Indo Pacific (Black substrate) Please
comment on the use of black substrate pro's and con's, could
not find any on wet web media. Also is this safe for burrowing
fishes?
<For many types, yes... I sharper than many other rounder, softer
sands of aragonitic make... and doesn't have much alkaline or
biomineral solubility>
My water parameters is:
Water temperature 29 degrees Celsius (I know this is slightly high, but
I live in South Africa and temperatures in summer is around 30degrees
and so far all inhabitants adjusted to this, this goes down to 27
degrees Celsius in winter and during the summer nights)
<You might want to add a fan or two... leave the lights off during
most of the day>
Specific gravity - 1.025
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite: - 0
Nitrate - 0ppm
PH 8.4
Inhabitants:
2 Turbo Snails
1 Fire Shrimp
1 Amphiprion Allardi
1 Six line wrasse
1 Feather duster
1 Torch coral
I am busy with a stocking plan and would like to know if it is possible
to have a harem (about 3 or 4) of Flameback pygmy angels in my tank.
Most of the ones I have seen in South Africa's fish stores are in
good health and around 2inches in size and shows no aggression towards
other tank mates.
Most of them are collected from the Indian ocean.
<Would be a very nice presentation>
I would like to know how to establish a harem in my 50 gallon setup. As
far as I could research this topic, all pygmy angels are sexless when
juveniles and if 3 individuals are added together as juveniles they
will establish a pecking order and the biggest/highest fish in the
hierarchy will become male and the rest will become female.
<I would place all at the same time... as juveniles as you
state>
Is this true and how do you establish this harem, just introduce three
2inch Flameback pygmy angels to the tank at the same time?
<Yes... this is about "it">
Also, will there be severe aggression between the 3 pygmy angels before
this pecking order is established.
<Not likely... more to be watched re the Clown>
My other concern is aggression towards my clownfish once the harem is
formed, will the pygmy angels become a lot more territorial?
<Will likely ignore the clown as it will be larger, was first
established>
Stocking plan:
I would like to add one of the following: A six line wrasse or Banggai
cardinal or bicolor goby can't make my mind up yet
I will be adding 5 more snails and 2 more fire shrimps this
weekend.
I would wait until at least half of the coral is added then add the
angel fishes
I would be introducing corals over a couple of months, lets say 1 every
2 weeks until my stocking plan is complete
I want to add a few less aggressive LPS corals first, (Open brain,
Blastomussa Merleti, plate coral)
Then a Candy Cane coral
I would like to add another torch coral, will there be aggression
between the same species or can 2 torch corals be placed close
together?
<Can be>
I also would like to add a rose bubble tip anemone for my clown fish,
is this compatible with above more aggressive LPS coral (the Torch and
Candy Cane) if given adequate (15inches) space?
<Can be problematical... I'd actually not have both the LPS and
the anemone... i.e. I'd have only one or the other. A wild
collected (vs. clone) Entacmaea is very likely to "roam"
here... with disastrous results>
If not, could the anemone work if there is more non aggressive LPS in
the tank.
<Not likely>
Thanks a lot, would love to receive your response.
M
<Bob Fenner>
Cherub angel and Black and White clown, Aggression
1/4/08 Hi- <Hello> First off, I'm very concerned
about my fish health because of a mean cherub, however I love both. I
have a 46 gal bow tank and I have had a pink and blue spot goby and the
cherub angel for 7 + months. Well recently I added a black and white
clown and the cherub will not leave him alone. I've tried all day
to catch the angel and I finally have. My question is really if I keep
him in qt for a week or so will he lose his dominance or do I have to
get rid of him? Thanks, Aly <Sometimes this break will help,
sometimes it won't, really depends on the individual fish, but
definitely worth a shot. You might also want to try reaquascaping the
tank, this can help is some cases as well.> <Chris>
Centropyge aurantonotus, sel. 6/5/08 Hello
crew - <Jim> I have been researching various Centropyge species
and was hoping for a clarification on your recommendations regarding
the C. aurantonotus (Brazilian Flameback angel). In reading The
Conscientious Marine Aquarist, Mr. Fenner seemed wary of the species
survival rates through the collection and transport processes. Browsing
through WWM though has turned up a fair number of recommendations of
the C. aurantonotus, with notes of it being a hardy species. Have
collection methods changed since publication of the book, making this
species a good choice? Or have I misinterpreted what I read in one of
the sources? <The survival of this miniature beauty has indeed
changed for the better since my penning CMA (now in a new edition...
but the first was done 12/95... Seems like a while back now> As
background, I would like to purchase 3 juvenile dwarf angels to keep as
a trio in our tank. I have read that the Flameback angel is a decent
option for this, triggering this query - although I'm not sure
I'll have much luck finding juveniles on the market. Thanks for
your insight, Jim <Will be a spectacular display am sure... ever
active, colorful... Cheers! Bob Fenner>
Cherub Angelfish Question 1/3/08 Good
evening WWM Crew, <AM here now... but welcome!> I have a quick
stocking question. I am looking to add a Cherub Angel (Centropyge argi
) to my tank, but am a bit concerned about this fish getting along with
my current inhabitants. Here is the setup: -55 gallon tank -Aqua C
Remora skimmer -about 50 lbs or so Live Rock -Whisper 60 with Carbon
and PolyFilter -Assorted Powerheads -10% water change every 1-2 weeks
-1 inch sand bed -Lots of Coralline Alg. -Power Compact lighting
Livestock: 1) 2.5 inch Salarias ramosus (Starry Blenny) 2) (2) 1.5 inch
Amphiprion ocellaris (Ocellaris Clowns) 3) 1 inch Chrysiptera parasema
(Yellow Tail Damsel) (who surprisingly has not shown any aggression at
all, yet) 4.) 1.5 inch Elacatinus oceanops (Neon Goby) (becoming one of
my favorites) 5.) 2.5-3inch Monodactylus argenteus (Mono) (
'¦I realize will outgrow the tank, but this fish has a much
larger home awaiting) Inverts: -About 10 Calcinus laevimanus -About 5
Paguristes cadenati -3 Turbo sp. And a few smaller snails -1 Ophiocoma
erinaceus -- Black Brittle Star Corals/Polyps: -Caulastrea curvata
-Pachyclavularia sp -Protopalythoa sp -Xenia sp. I would also like to
add some more LPS (probably Trachyphyllia geoffroy) and also Ricordea
florida to my tank eventually. There is a Cherub Angel (looks great,
but a bit small at just under 1inch) <Don't get all that much
larger...> at the LFS, and I'm looking to add this amazing fish
to my setup. With my current Livestock, do you think this will be
overcrowded? <The Damsel may go after it initially, but if placed
during the earlier AM, I give you/it good chances of getting along fine
here> Is there a large probability the fish will nip at/damage my
Corals/Polyps/etc? <Very small> I have read much and it seems
like this will be fine, however I'm not sure about the last part of
my question. Much conflicting opinions on the web (as always, with this
hobby) about their being prone to nip. I will keep reading, of course.
Thank you kindly for your help! Eric <Thank you for sharing Eric.
Bob Fenner>
Re: New Tank Setup and Trigger Selection... Now
Centropyge comp., incl. argi 12/29/07 Hi Dr. Fenner,
<Ummm, just Bob please. I have no doctorate> Thanks for the info.
Your response about the Cherub concerns me. What is your opinion of
adding the Cherub to the new 215g tank with a 2.5" Coral Beauty
(at the same time)? <This dwarf dwarf Centropyge should be fine in
this size setting> I've searched your site but couldn't find
this exact match. I've even thought about putting the Cherub in my
65 gallon sump. I really appreciate all the support your team provides
online. Thanks in advance, Nancy <Welcome! BobF>
Sick angel... C. argi 10/16/07 HI, I have a
55 gallon tank with two O. clowns, one yellow goby, one royal Gramma,
and a cherub angel. About a week ago, the angel stopped eating, and his
fins became ragged and frayed looking. <Mmm, maybe the Gramma...>
I put him in quarantine, where I noticed one of his eyes was bulging. I
have been searching and asking everywhere for help, and a few sources
said he has fin and tail rot and to treat him with Maracyn. <Mmm,
no> However, I do not think that is what he has. His eye bulged for
only one day, but is now back to normal. I am almost certain he is
blind, He swims in circles all day long occasionally bumping into
things, and he will not eat at all. I have tried holding food right up
to him but I get no response. He has not eaten in almost 7 days, and I
am really worried about him. Should I use the Maracyn? I don't
think it will help, but I just don't know Charlene <Does the
system afford sufficient dark areas for this little Centropyge to get
out of the light? What foods, supplements have you been offering? If
this fish is still feeding, I would try Selcon, and Spectrum pelleted
food of sufficiently small diameter. Bob Fenner>
Re: sick angel, blind C. argi 10/16/07 Hi,
Thank you for responding to me! I submitted the question about my sick
Cherub, who I think is blind. The main system is set up with about 30
pounds of live rock, with some pieces of base rock arranged so there is
many crooks, crannies, and caves. The angel really loved swimming
through them, and the tank is taller rather then wider. I have been
feeding him a variety of Mysis shrimp, pygmy angel formula from ocean
nutrition, frozen emerald entree, and ocean nutrition green marine
algae, which I would hang on the wall. Now that he is in quarantine, he
is not eating at all, at least that I have seen. It has been 13 days
now that I have last seen him eat. He swims from one side of the tank
to the other almost without stop until the lights go out and then he
goes over to one corner and turns almost completely white in color. I
have added nothing to the hospital tank but vitamins (vita Chem) and a
little bit of Entice to his food (which has no effect) I have also been
doing bi-weekly, small water changes to keep the water quality clean.
Ph- 8.4, nitrates-o nitrites-o temp 78 SG 1.023 Is there anything else
I can do for my little fish? <Mmm, perhaps a deficiency syndrome
still...> Thank you, Charlene (do fish ever regain lost eyesight?)
<Yes. Do keep trying the supplementation to foods. Bob
Fenner>
New Pygmy Angel Question 7/30/07
Hello Everyone, I just picked up a new Pygmy Angel aka Cherub Angel
(now named Pilaf Bean) and I noticed something when taking his
picture. There are missing scales or dark spots on his side. These
are not visible to the naked eye because his color is so dark.
Should I do anything to help heal it? Will it heal with time and
good care? Thanks, Jessica <I do think this Cherub will heal and
be fine. Your images belie its good behavior, curiosity, health
here. It likely was "beat" in the process of collection,
transport... and will regenerate these scales and shortened fins.
Bob Fenner> |
|
Flameback angel... Angels crowded tog. period
5/24/07 Dear Crew I have a question for you all, Firstly I will
introduce my stock. 100 gallon, lots of rock, 2years, 3 flame angel, 1
blue face (medium), 1 regal angel (medium) <These Angelfishes need
much more room> and 2 clownfish (small) with anemone
<Species?> Saturday last week I add 1 Flameback angel (the same
size like the flame angel) ... (you can called me crazy if you want),
<Not crazy perhaps, but reckless> and I arrange the
rock on the left side, I shut off the light and put it in my aquarium.
Note: In the fish shop, the Flameback wants to eat (live shrimp/rebon).
After I put the Flameback, I never saw the flame or the other fishes
chase the Flameback until now and vice versa, but seems the Flameback
did not want to swim (hides a lot) <What this species, C.
aurantonotus I take it, does in the wild...> and Tuesday I introduce
again the live shrimp, he wants to eat but only a small amount. And
then up to now he never show up again So what do you think, the
Flameback will survive or not? <There are more important issues
going on in this small volume...> Do you think the Flameback is
still alive, or should I rip apart my aquarium now to save the
Flameback? <Mmm, no need... if it is dead, it will likely dissolve
w/o your detection... If it is alive...> (note: I read your article
in WWM regarding the pygmy "pygmy angel" and I think those
species should be aggressive... ... no?) <Minimally... as befits
their diminutive size> Thanks for the advice Best regards Ignatio
<Ignatio... you have too many incompatible Angels here... and need
at least more space... Bob Fenner>
Cherub Addition...yes, no...maybe? -- 5/1/07 Hello!
<Hi.> I wanted to write because I have been receiving some
conflicting information. <Okay, lets see what I can do.> I
have a 35g tank that I have had running for 3 yrs now. About 6
months ago while I was out of town for an extended period it
crashed while a friend was caring for it. <Not uncommon for an
aquarium disaster to happen while it is in the care of another, other
than the owner...I've got one myself.> I have been slowly
re-stocking it. <Yes patience is key in this hobby, if you
ever find anyone who sells it let me know.> I have a CBS, percula
clown, Banggai cardinal, and a flame Hawkfish. I am pretty sure
that I am at capacity. <For a 35 gallon tank, yes, I'm
inclined to agree.> I had originally wanted a cherub as my final
addition, but went with the Hawkfish because it was so
interesting/entertaining. My LFS dealer says I still have room
for a cherub. <I bet he does...> Everyone is doing well
with very little squabbling...except the CBS seems to be aggressive
toward everyone (he was the only organism to survive the original die
off). What do you think. <I think you have a functioning and
stable aquarium...and I would leave it that way. Good luck my
friend.> Thanks! <Anytime, Adam J.>
African Flameback Angel Aggression. - 2/28/07 <Hey John,
JustinN with you today.> I have a 90 gallon tank with 100 lbs of LR,
eventually to become a SPS reef tank. <Ok> I have a pair of black
onyx Perculas, Mystery Wrasse and a C. lineatus in my tank.
<Sounds lovely> I eventually would like to add a Pygmy African
Flameback to the tank. Would the Flameback be too aggressive for the
other fish I already have? <Mm, I don't think so.. I think the
amount of space you provide, along with all of your live rock, will be
plenty here.> I also know that there is a small risk of adding a
Flameback to a reef tank. <Yes, and as you're aware I'll
leave the soapbox at home this time *grin*> Thanks, John <Hope
this helps you, John! -JustinN>
Group of 5 Cherub Angelfish (c. argi) in a 225g Potential for
Conflict 2/6/07 Hi all, <Hi Rebecca, Mich with
you.> I had my LFS order five cherub (c. argi) angelfish for my 225g
reef tank. A good friend and fish guru told me that the argi
can be put into a larger display tank as a group without any
problem. <Mmm, don't think I would go so far as to
say without a problem.> <<Actually... in such a size volume...
have seen more than this number in a group in the wild. RMF>> The
LFS called to tell me that the fish arrived and are spectacular but
when put in his QT tank, they started fighting with each
other. He had to separate them or they would have killed
each other. The LFS will QT them for me but I am concerned
that they may fight in the main tank, once I put them in. Is
the larger display tank going to make the difference so they don't
fight? Any advice or experience on how I can acclimate them
into my main display tank so they don't beat each other up and
stress out the rest of my fish. <These fish can have quite a bit of
attitude. A male and two or more females can typically be
kept as a group as long as they are introduced at the same time to a
tank of at least 50 gallons. However, two males housed in
the same aquarium will often fight to the death. I am
unaware of anyway of determining sex by gross examination.> Thanks
so much. <You're welcome! Good
luck! -Mich> Rebecca
Re: Group of 5 Cherub Angelfish (c. argi) in a 225g Potential for
Conflict 2/6/07 Mich, thanks for your response.
<You're welcome Rebecca.> Does the size of the fish help in
determining the sex? <No, I have found no references of
the sort. Also note, these fish are
dioecism. Meaning that the sexes are separate and will not
change as is possible in other fish such as clownfish which are
protandry (start as male and can evolve into females ...many possible
jokes here!> Also, you would not suggest having four
females with one male? <No, one male with four females
should be fine. Two males in a tank would likely be a
problem. Let us know how all works out.
-Mich> Rebecca C. argi System Size Requirements?
Hello, <Hi, Ryan with you today> I have tried looking through all
of your information but cannot seem to find the answer. <No
problem> I was wondering what your opinion is of putting a pair of
Cherub Pygmy angels (Centropyge argi) together in a 55G
tank, I have read different information concerning this specific
species and introducing them as pairs. <I have had no issues with
this combination in the past. They can, however, be a little
nippy with some LPS. Good luck, Ryan> Thanks for all of
your help.
Centropyge argi in a 20H - 2/26/2006 Would one of these guys
be healthy and happy in a 20H? The only other fish would be
a black ocellaris or a true percula. The tank would have
lots of hiding places because of live rock and a little bit of
filamentous algae for him to munch on. <<I wouldn't do
it. Too small of a system for adequate grazing, lateral
movement, and living room.>> Thanks for the help today and in the
past. <<Glad to help. Lisa.>> Best regards,
Travis
Cherub Angel (Centropyge argi) Question >I'm
back... I recently wrote in asking about compatibility of a six line
wrasse with the rest of my inhabitants. I've decided not to go with
the wrasse. Current 29g tank residents include: 2 false
Percs, 1 blood shrimp, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 peppermint shrimp, 3
hermits, and 1 turbo snail. Had a yellowtail damsel who didn't make
the transfer from the QTank to the display due to my screw-up of some
kind. Anyway. I plan on getting a strawberry Dottyback to go
in the tank also. >>I would say that your system has pretty much
hit its max bioload level. One has to account for ultimate
adult sizes of animals held within, and the ocellaris clowns can get
around 3", sometimes larger. The Dottyback can become a
wee bit aggressive, too. Consider instead something that
will remain relatively small, neon gobies, perhaps. However,
you've said the magic words, QTank! Good on ya, and keep
it up (30 day minimum, please!). >Kids are upset about the demise of
the yellowtail. I wasn't going to replace him but now feel I need
to. >>I understand this feeling, but please don't give in, as
it may likely simply lead to more deaths, and more
"upsetness". Also, consider that the bulk of these
animals are wild caught, and there are very real ethical issues in
replacing fish in such a way. If you can, wait until you get
a larger system that will be more stable. >We were at
the LFS today and saw the Cherub Pygmy Dwarf Angel. I know
that they stay small and I was wondering if he would work in my
tank? If yes, should he be added before, after, or at same
time as Dottyback? I also want a yellow tang eventually. (I
know my current system is too small for him.) What I want to be able to
do is to take the 29g residents and put them in the larger system when
I get it. >>Then I strongly suggest you wait until you actually
get that system. It's best not to add too many fish at
once, *especially* when you're running such a small
setup. The dwarf is compatible with the clowns, the
Dottyback, the tang, and the neon gobies, but will RULE the 29
gallon. If you take that list of fishes and put them into a
60 gallon, that would be best, adding NO more fish.
>Will the pygmy be able to co-exist with the tang then or not at
all? I posted this on the forums but wasn't really getting my
question answered. Was told that my tank should be a year
old before I get the pygmy and that it is a touchy fish and I should be
worried about new tank syndrome. >>No, this would be among the
better of the angels for beginners, but it is PUGNACIOUS, as I
said. That would make him a candidate to be added
last. I think what the folks on the forum may have been
trying to convey (without actually reading the posts) is that your
system is soon to be overstocked. Also, consider instead of
the Dottyback something more peaceable like a royal Gramma.
>I'm getting so confused now because all I've read about the
cherub says it is an excellent hardy angel for a beginner. >>It
is. But please don't place it into a tank of this size,
it could very well begin harassing the poor clowns terribly. >I want
to know if the Cherub will work in my current tank and later be
compatible with a yellow tang. >>In my opinion, if you get the
new tank and it's going to be around 75 gallons or more, then
absolutely it will get along just fine with the tang, and the tang will
be fine in that size tank for quite a while (though they really need
horizontal space for swimming room). >Also, I am
considering, do not have at moment, getting some mushrooms or
polyps. Will the cherub destroy these? If yes,
then they are not necessary to have. I'd rather have the fish.
>>You know, with angels it tends to be hit or
miss. The real victims tend to be clams, soft corals (not
Corallimorphs or Zoanthids), and LPS (large polyp stony) corals.
>Thanks for your help! Carla >>I hope you do find my
suggestions helpful, I know it's not exactly what you may have been
looking to glean. Marina
Stocking Order and Territorial Flameback Pygmy Angel 10/11/05
Dear Crew, <Hello> I appreciate that there is much relevant
information on your website but I would be most grateful if you could
please spell it out for me - apologies in advance for taking up your
time. I have a 55 gal FOWLR system, with 66lbs of live rock. I use a
Fluval 304 for mechanical filtration, a Red Sea Prizm skimmer and two
MaxiJet 600 powerheads for circulation. In the aquarium I currently
have 2 mated percula clownfish, 1 mandarin dragonet (who thankfully is
happy to eat frozen food) and a Flameback pygmy angel. Unfortunately
the pygmy angel has become unsurprisingly territorial. <Mmm, is
surprising> I recently tried to add 2 cardinal fish but these were
chased by the pygmy angel until I had to return the surviving one to
the LFS where I had bought him. I subsequently tried introducing a
lemon peel pygmy angel, <This tank is too small for two Centropyge
species> taking in part the advice from your site to rearrange the
rocks into two distinct piles and removed the Flameback for a couple of
days into the QT tank to allow the lemon peel to establish himself but
again he did not survive. <Good techniques> My question
therefore, is whether there are any fish that you could recommend to
me, in particular, fish that will be strong enough to not be affected
by the behaviour of the Flameback but at the same time gentle enough
not to frighten my dragonet (of whom I am incredibly fond!). I read on
the saltwater.about.com website that a yellow and a Naso tang might be
possible contenders? <Maybe a smaller Zebrasoma species, not a
Naso... your tank is too small> I appreciate that I will in a few
years need to buy a larger aquarium to accommodate the Naso. Or do you
recommend that I remove the Flameback and return him to the LFS
(although he is all but impossible to catch without removing all the LR
from the tank). <I would look into other species that are found in
this fish's range (use fishbase.org here) that are also available
in the ornamental trade... some of the small basses, Hypoplectrus...
come to mind, as well as some of the smaller Labrids from the area>
Thank you so much for all your help and assistance! Kindest Regards,
Tim Kroemer <Bob Fenner>
Cherub pygmy angel 9/17/05 Hi WWM crew. I
have been reading through your site looking for information about the
cherub angel, but I cannot find a good answer to my question, so here
it goes. I have a 28 gallon that has a false percula clown,
purple Firefish, neon goby, and a shrimp. I have a
Millennium 3,000 running with an AquaC Remora Pro, 20lbs of live sand,
and plenty of live rock. I want to add a small fish that
will swim quite a bit (as the Firefish and goby do not) if
possible. I have been unsure of what I can add that will be
peaceful and get along with the other fish. Someone at an
LFS told me that the Cherub pygmy would be good, but it seems that they
can be very aggressive to other tankmates. Would this be a
good fish to add? <Amongst one of the best for the size, mix you
have> Or do you have any suggestions regarding something else that
might be better? Thanks so much for your time and the great
website. ~Jocelyn <If anything the Percula might go after the
argi... but with lots of rock, spaces... Bob Fenner>
A Perfect Angel For A Small World! Hello WWM Crew! Want to
thank Scott F for the previous advice. Very
helpful. Today, I assure you, will be a quick question.
<Glad that you found it useful- I'm back with you tonight!>
My 25 gal tank is cycled with 25 pounds Tonga Live rock, 40 lbs sugar
fine live sand. Eclipse hood filtration, 2 power heads and a
CPR skimmer 2r producing 1/2 cup a day tea-coffee colored waste.
<You know that I love to hear THAT!> Current
Bio-Load: 1 Lysmata amboinensis 1 Lysmata debelius 1 Mithrax Crab (LR
Hitchhiker) 5 Miniature Blue legged Reef hermits. 3 small Red sea
snails My initial stocking list included the above and a flame
wrasse/flasher wrasse. Would also adding a small pygmy angel
in time be overdoing it? I want to keep this tank under
stocked and healthy as possible. Thanks again! Ryan Bowen San
Francisco, CA <I think that you nailed it,
Ryan...You're right about where you'd want to be, in terms of
fishes, in this sized tank. As far as the pygmy angel, you could go for
the "Cherub Angel"( C. argi), the "Flameback Angel"
(C. aurantonotus), or, if you are a Pacific kind of guy, like me- a
good small choice would be C. fisheri or C. flavicauda. All of these
are small, very adaptable, and have interesting behaviours and color
patterns. I'd let the tank become established for a while before
adding the angel, as it will need some microfauna and algae to pick at
to help supplement it's diet. Other than that- just provide common
sense care and you'll enjoy these fish for many years to come! Good
luck! ScottF>
Centropyge mixing 7/20/03 Crew: I have read that mixing
Centropyge species in the same tank is a no-no, but I just have to ask
about a specific combination. I am interested in the Flame
Angel (C. loricula) primarily. In addition to that, I was
hoping I could get away with the Cherub Angel (C. argi). My
thinking is that their different sizes and colors would make it okay to
have them both in a 55 gallon (48" long). I appreciate
your time. Rich <with so many beautiful fish in the
sea... I wonder/advise - "why tempt fate" by mixing
congeners, conspecifics or other fishes likely to fight/compete. In
this case, I will admit that you have a better chance of it working
than with other Centropyge... but again, why tempt fate? My advice is
to select only one. Kind regards, Anthony>
Centropyge mixing Follow-up 7/21/03 Anthony: I appreciate
your reply to my Centropyge question. <always welcome my
friend> A summary: you basically said C. loricula and C. argi may
work together in my 55, but "why tempt fate" when there are
so many other fish in the sea. <correct :) > A
follow-up, if I may: I recently returned my last remaining Damsel, the
Azure Demoiselle (Chrysiptera hemicyanea - seen here (my picture) after
Bob identified him for me a few weeks ago: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/chrysipterafaqs.htm
) to LFS after 43 weeks(!) in display because he got a little chippy
towards others, <heehee... cheeky monkey> maybe when he realized
he was the eldest occupant after the other damsel returns (sorry, the
damsels were used for cycling before I found your site - none died in
my care by the way - please be gentle :D). <no
worries... quite common to do> I was looking at the C. argi as a
"blue-to-purple-and-yellow-small-when-grown-up" replacement
for that beautiful damsel I had (*sniff*). I have been leafing through
my Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael, but I can't seem to find
anything suitable. I was hoping something would leap to your
mind, relating to the fish of course! (hey, I can dream,
right?). Also, can you recommend a marine-fish-suitability
reference larger than Mr. Michael's? Thanks again and
again for your guidance, Rich. <absolutely...
fishbase.org It is the largest reference any of us are
likely to find, and its free on the web. Search by common name or
scientific when know. Or pick a genus that you are favoring and follow
the links to all of its species for a browse. Note that there is a link
for more pics on each individual page as well as links for diet,
reproduction, distribution, etc. Best of luck! Anthony>
Centropyge mixing Follow-up II 7/21/03 Anthony:
Wow, that must be the speed reply record! <they
don't call me Sir Speedy for nothing. Erhhhh... on second thought,
don't spread that one around.> I first thought it bounced back.
<we do try to reply to all within 24 hours here... some
days/weeks(!) are busier than others> As far as the reference goes,
I was hoping for a book I could leaf through, as well as proudly
display on my bookshelf. Anything on that order? <nothing
so much on all fishes collectively. It would really be a monumental
endeavor. Its best to focus on titles that feature families and groups.
Helmut Debelius has produced some outstanding books in this manner.
Very handsome production. Of course... there is our volume two coming
soon ;) Reef Fishes <G>> Thanks, Rich. Ps: Reef Invertebrates
book is AWESOME - don't tell me how it ends, I am not done yet ;)!
<Ha! Happy reading... and hoping the book makes it out of the
lavatory without color changes to the images. Anthony>
Resplendent angel 9/04 hello there, <Howdy>
well, it is still unconfirmed but it is believed that Resplendent
Angels ( Centropyge ) are being tank raised in Hawaii. <Neat....
wonder if Frank Baensch is involved here?> I just picked up one,
about 3/4" long from a local wholesalers on Friday. depending
on the availability, and what the market will bear, this fish is
still pushing $1,000 see attached picture. note the Clear-For-Life
sticker is 2"x2" Jim Stime, Jr. Aquarium Design -
www.aquarium-design.com Midwater Systems - www.jellyfishtank.com
MyFishTank.com - www.myfishtank.com <Thanks for the note and pic
Jim. Bob F> |
|
Re: resplendent angel Bob, >> <Neat.... wonder
if Frank Baensch is involved here?> << It was strange, the
only info I could get out of Quality was that the fish did come
from Hawaii and it was in cubicles right next to similar sized C.
interruptus, which are tank raised. So it is assumed that these
fish did come from Frank. <Me too. I recall Chris Buerner
telling me (while showing us the interruptus in their back area)
that those came from him I believe.> Aside from the lack of info
from the wholesaler it seemed odd to me that no mention has been
made with regards to MAC. I would think this would be something
very exciting and beneficial to the advancement of MAC and the
industry in general. <The idiots that are the MAC at top are
clueless... in their ever-changing BS program they initially
intended to absolutely exclude tank produced livestock... because
they couldn't "tax" it. Yes> How was Kona ? Did
you go to MACNA in Boston ? <Fine... out there most of August,
will be out there most of October... a bunch of the shell nut
friends to dive with (Marty Beals of Tideline and his wife Angela
including... and a new Hash group starting up... And yes to Boston,
very nice. Gave a pitch yesterday and ret'd home. Cheers, Bob
F> Jim Stime, Jr. |
Re: Resplendent angel Bob, I found Franks web site and
confirmed what I thought, the Resplendents are tank raised
>>> http://www.rcthawaii.com/index.html <<<
Jim Stime, Jr <Ah, yes. Bob Fenner> |
Strange Angel Color Change Dear Bob and Crew: <Scott F.
with you this evening> I am sad to report that my pygmy angel is
losing his dark blue coloration on his body and the yellow
"under color" is showing through. It's like he
is shedding - that's what I'd call it if he were a dog or
cat. We have had him for nine months, got him full grown so
I don't know how old he is. He is eating and swimming as
usual and this color thing just started this afternoon. His
tankmates appear to be fine. Water stats:
Salinity: 28 (specific gravity 1.0215),Alkalinity
3.2, Ammonia 0,Nitrates 0, Calcium 450 ppm Please let me know if he is
sick or what. He has no spots on him, but as he is from the
sea and not tank bred he could have parasites that I don't know
about. Connie Cavan PS =: As I finish this note, his color
appears normal again. What is going on.???? Hope
Bob, you can help, he is named after you.!!! <Wow, Connie, any fish
named after Bob deserves our best...! I'm a bit curious about this
color change; there could be a number of reasons and causes. First, I
am assuming that you are referring to Centropyge argi, the "Cherub
Angelfish", or Centropyge acanthops, the "Flameback
Angelfish" (Do check the wetwebmedia.com site for FAQ's and
articles on the genus Centropyge for a firm ID on your fish)? The
reason that I ask is that both of these fish are basically dark blue
with yellowish "faces", and, in the case of C. acanthops, a
yellow dorsal region. As such, these are normal color variations.
However, a sudden color change could be anything from a stress reaction
to the onset of "Head And Lateral Line Erosion"
("HLLE"), which is thought to be a "disease"
brought on by dietary or environmental deficiencies. Without seeing
this for myself, I'd have to go out on a limb and say that it's
probably some kind of stress or fright reaction, especially when you
consider that he was eating well and that the color returned quickly.
In the absence of other obvious disease symptoms, I'm going to
suggest that you continue to observe him, provide excellent water
conditions, and a varied diet rich in vegetable matter. Monitor the
environmental factors regularly, and be prepared to act should some
more serious disease symptoms arise. Let us know if we can be of any
further assistance! Good luck! Scott F>
Angel Shifting Color (Pt. 2) Hi again Bob and crew: <Scott
F. here this afternoon> Bob is a Centropyge argi and when we got him
nine months ago we didn't know that he was an adult. He
hasn't grown at all since we got him. He is swimming and
eating today, but is no longer speeding around the tank. As
I don't know how old he is, I can't be sure, but isn't it
possible that he is dying from old age? <Always a possibility, but I
think that you'd notice a gradual decline in health and activity if
this were the case> He has slowed down tremendously in just one day
and his mouth is open slightly. He still shows interest in chasing the
dithers, but not like before. Our tank is in prime
condition, we have live rock and all sorts of critters that have grown
from them. I do a 10 gallon water change once a week and
it's a 60 gallon tank. I don't see any signs of
lateral line disease. However, I feel it's possible that he has
parasites, as he is from the sea. <Well, the fact that his mouth is
partially agape is of some concern. I think that some type of parasitic
infection is possible, but hard to tell from here. I assume that he
showed no signs of infection during quarantine?> We have a royal
Gramma we got about the same time from the same place and she was also
fully-grown, so we have no idea how old "she" is either. I
don't want to stress him further by removing him (HA) from his
environment, but if you think I should be treating him for that I
don't know how to do it except to remove him. I
don't think he is strong enough to weather removal into our
"emergency room" 10 gallon tank. Catching him would be
something else, but certainly would remove all rocks etc. if you think
he should be treated.. <Wow- tough call here. What I would do is
pour over the disease FAQs and resources here on wetwebmedia.com and
see if there are any pics of a fish with the condition that you've
noticed. I certainly don't recommend just throwing medication into
the tank (or QT tank, for that matter), so I think that, in the absence
of other disease signs (i.e.; rapid breathing, obvious spots, fin
tears, etc), I'd observe him a little longer. If these unusual
symptoms persist, and the fish appears to be on the decline, you should
remove him to your hospital tank for more observation, and possibly
treatment for whatever condition you get a positive ID on. I am always
concerned for the other fish in a tank where one might be Ill..
sometimes everyone needs to be removed for observation or treatment, as
is the case with ich.> You can see our test results of our water in
my first note. I should add that we use ROWAphos,
along with 2 carbon filters in our Fluval 404. We >have been using
it for 3-4 months and it has really helped the quality of our water.
I'd appreciate any comments you have on this. <Not familiar with
this product, but your H20 quality seemed high last time> >We
also have a CPR skimmer and two powerheads. Am not crazy about the CPR,
but aside from wanting to replace it in the future, everything in the
tank is fine except Bob. We have a low bioload and have
never had water problems since we got the phosphates well
under control. <It sounds like he may need to be removed for some
TLC in the QT tank soon. You'll have to make the call on this one,
unfortunately! Sorry to be so long-winded, but nothing has scared him,
he is king of the tank, and with his color back he looks
fine, but he really has slowed down. Thanks for your time
and effort. Connie Cavan <Thanks for writing, Connie-keep me
posted...Wish that there was more I could tell you at this
point...Regards, Scott F.>
Angel Losing Color Dear Scott: It's me again re:
Bob. He seemed to pick up energy as the day went along, but
tonight during feeding he lost his color, but it almost immediately
came back. This is the second time this has happened (that I have
noticed). He was in quarantine for about a month and he was
fine. Several months later I noticed a long white fecal kind
of thing coming out of him and he scraped it off on a rock. I have read
Fenner's book and picked up from that book that most wild fish do
have some kind of parasite. This was several months ago and he has been
fine ever since. His mouth is no longer agape but his color
fading and then returning so quickly is really weird. His
tank mates, the royal Gramma, 2 immature clowns and 3 baby Chromis, all
seem fine. The clowns are tank bred but all the others are
from the ocean. I guess this will play itself out, but if you or any of
the crew have any ideas on this I would appreciate hearing. Thanks much
for your concern. Connie Cavan <Well Connie- this certainly is
interesting, to say the least! It seems unlikely that a parasite from
the wild would still be manifesting itself this far down the line...Not
impossible, but unlikely. With regard to the "color loss and
return" thing, I still think that there is some sort of stress or
mood related color change going on here. Could even be a
day/night color shift...If this is a regular occurrence, you might look
for some type of factor here- like harassment from one of the other
fishes, a territorial dispute. anything that could trigger some sort of
stress reaction in this fish. Again, in the absence of further, or
obvious, disease symptoms of some sort, I'd still be inclined to
keep an eye on him, with the intent to take immediate action if disease
does manifest itself. Hang in there-keep observing! Good luck! Scott
F.>
Waskly Wabbits! (Rabbitfishes) I have a 65 gallon reef that
needs a good algae eater. I am told that tangs shouldn't
go in a tank this size. <I think that's pretty good advice!>
I also understand that Rabbitfish are a very good
herbivore. Is there a Rabbitfish that would be comfortable
long term in a 65 gallon tank? Fred <In my opinion, Fred- not
really. Pretty much every available Rabbitfish in the hobby reaches a
minimum of 7 inches or so- these guys need space just like tangs do.
They also are very sensitive to less than optimal water conditions,
often being referred to by hobbyists as "ich magnets".
I'd stick to some of the less "space-demanding"
herbivores, like blennies...For example, the "Lawnmower
Blenny", Salarias fasciatus, or the "Redlip Blenny",
Ophioblennius atlanticus (a neat fish, but sometimes can nip an
occasional coral or clam mantle...never happened in my tanks, however).
These guys can do a nice job on algae, and although they can get over 4
inches, they don't have nearly the requirements for space that
tangs and Rabbitfishes do. Also, some people use pygmy angelfishes
(Centropyge) for herbivores (Now- I don't want every reefer out
there to freak out and say that "Scott is suggesting using a Flame
Angel for algae control!"). These fishes come with a variety of
personalities and tendencies, including a propensity for nipping and
eating corals in some cases! However, a large percentage of their diet
is comprised of vegetable matter, so I include them here for
completeness. In your tank, you'd definitely want the smaller
"models", like C. argi, or C. acanthops. Both of these little
guys can be feisty, however, so choose tankmates carefully. Use the
wetwebmedia.com site for more research into herbivorous fishes. Good
luck! Regards, Scott F>
Cherub Angel and other questions.... Hi WWM crew..... I have
a couple of questions concerning the Cherub Angelfish (Centropyge
argi)....First of all, would it be o.k. in a 20H tank with 3 other
fish? Inhabitants are:2 ocellaris clownfish(1-1.5"),and a Catalina
Goby(1"). <I would not place this dwarf angel with two clowns
in this small system> I realize this is a coldwater species, but he
was in the LFS "tropical "tank for appx.3 mths.. and he's
been in mines for 3mths.,so I guess I got a "rare" Catalina
goby..... <It's life will be greatly foreshortened> Would a
cherub angel pick on any of these fish or make my tank overload?
<Likely the other way around> If I can't add a 4th fish,
which would you recommend removing, so I can add him? <The
clowns> Would it pick on my corals? (xenia, zoo's, mushrooms,
bubble coral, candy cane coral, Kenya tree, GSP, sand polyps, or clove
polyps) What's the diet? Also how big do these guys get? Any
additional info. is appreciated.. BTW, filtration is 2 Skilter
250's if this helps...My tank also contains a lot of LR......
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm
and the FAQs files beyond (linked, in blue, at top) re these questions.
Bob Fenner>
C. argi or C. acanthops in a Nano Bob: <Steven Pro
answering questions at the moment.> I am new to salt water and have
set up a 10 gallon nano-reef that is thriving (at the moment). I would
love to add a C. argi or C. acanthops to this system (though I realize
already that it is very small); the LFS has one of each that are only
about 2.5 cm long and of course I am considering moving my little reef
to a bigger tank (or simply starting another reef in a bigger tank
where the fish could be moved). In general, is one of these species
better for a reef tank than the other in terms of personality,
aggressiveness, hardiness, or anything else? <They should be about
the same. A bit of a roll of the dice as to whether either will eat any
inverts you care about. Could only be recommended for your ten gallon
tank as the only fish. -Steven Pro Thanks, Steve
Atlantic Pygmy Angel Hey WWM Crew! You guys have one great
site! <Thank you kindly.> I'm having some tank problems and I
think you can help. My father is VERY big into marine reef tanks, and
at 15 I'm getting in to them also. Sadly my dad had a heart attack
and has mild brain damage, forcing him into a rehab for at least 6
months. <I am terribly sorry to hear about your troubles. I wish
your father a quick and complete recovery.> I can take care of most
of the tanks, but the little 3 gallon mini-tank is bugging me. It is
the Eclipse Mini 3 Gallon. It's only resident is a small Atlantic
Pygmy Angel, I'm having trouble feeding him. He was bought the day
before the "heart attack". I'm feeding him "Ocean
Formula Pygmy Angel Formula" and some lettuce on a feeding clip.
He just nibbles on his food and goes into his cave. Is this species shy
like him or is he still getting used to his new tank. <I am guessing
a little bit of both, shy and settling in.> Any help I could use!
<Try instead Nori or Seaweed Selects in the clip and frozen Mysis
shrimp.> Thanks, Phil <Best of luck to you and your father.
-Steven Pro>
Dwarves from TWA! One last question, if I do stick with the 2
dwarf angels, which would be the best match with a flame, the
Centropyge argi or a Centropyge aurantonotus? <These two are
remarkably similar, no real reason for one over the other.> Thanks,
Rich. <You are welcome. -Steven Pro>
Mixing Pygmy Angels Question: Atlantic Pygmy Angel, African
Flameback Angel, Flame Angel and Coral Beauty, Will they get
along in the same tank 135gal. 2nd Question: African
Flameback and Brazilian Flameback which one is hardier or your choice
with the other two coral and flame angel. Thank you.
<Not happily or healthily in my estimation... the dwarf dwarf and
regular size dwarf marine angels are territorial... especially with
species that are similar appearing... IMO I'd limit a 135 to just
one or two of these... and mix in some non-angels. The Brazilian
(Centropyge aurantonotus) is tougher... Bob Fenner>
Resplendent Dwarf Angel Howdy there Bob, I was on your site
and came across the Pygmy Angel page and of course I just had to check
them out < s >. I just received a Golden and a Multicolor, and am
expecting to get hold of a C. joculator in the near future. I noticed
you are in need of a picture for the Resplendent. you are more than
welcome to use any of the photos off my Resplendent Page if you wish.
the addy is;
>>http://www.aquarium-design.com/fish/resplendent.html <<
so, when are we going back to Hawaii...or any other tropical island in
the south pacific < s > ? Jim Stime Aquarium Design <Thanks
for the pic off Jim. And am off to southern Japan over Toikeydaze,
but/and will venture out anytime you have the resources. Keep in touch.
Bob Fenner>
Centropyge argi... one of my fave little angels I e-mailed
you a while back about adding a Coral Beauty angel to my tank, and you
told me that it would be a bad idea. Based on your response and my own
research, I decided not to add anything to the tank at that time. Now,
my LFS has gotten in an absolutely gorgeous little argi angel . .
. <Yikes, one of my faves> The little guy is about 1",
and is eating well. Do you think it would be okay to add one of these
to my current system? Just to refresh your memory, as I'm sure you
get too many e-mails a day to remember any one tank in particular,
<Have to look at my own drivers license occasionally...> here are
my tank stats again: 30 gallon flat back hex (36" long),
established for 8 months with a good growth of various algae and
sand-stirring critters, 28 lbs. of LR, 3.5" sand bed, Magnum 350
for occasional carbon filtering and circulation, Prizm skimmer, and a
175 gph powerhead. Water quality readings are ammo/nitrite 0, nitrate
~20 mg/l (tank is slightly overfed), s.g. 1.024, and pH 8.2. Current
inhabitants are a 3.5" C. solandri puffer, a 2.5" lawnmower
blenny (very fat and happy, he even eats pellets :)), a pitiful little
1" scooter blenny that has finally started eating but still looks
like he is starving to death, <Maybe... would be great to add a
sump/refugium to your set-up... among other benefits to provide more
live food for this fish> a chocolate chip starfish, 2 red leg
hermits, 2 blue leg hermits, and a curly q anemone. I do 25% water
changes weekly. I am currently feeding the tank only meaty frozen foods
and pellets. If I add the angel, should I add flakes or Seaweed Selects
to my feeding regimen (that's what he's eating now)? Or can he
get enough plant matter grazing? As always, thank you so much for your
opinion! Laura <I am melting here... and would likely add this
little Cherub myself. And yes to expanding the food/feeding plan. Be
chatting. Bob Fenner>
Re: Centropyge argi... I called my LFS and they are holding
the angel for me :). About the scooter blenny, he is eating very well
in the tank and I have a good growth of copepods and amphipods, but I
bought him out of a tank with no LR where he was being fed only flakes.
<No fun... such keepers should have to eat Corn Flakes (which I do
like) exclusively (which I would not like)> I've had him for
over a month and he is eating every day (he especially likes bits of
ghost shrimp that my puffer spits out and vitamin soaked bloodworms).
He just won't gain weight, no matter how much he eats. I'm
beginning to wonder if he was just too far gone . . . <Perhaps, but
don't give up hope. Bob Fenner>
Re: Centropyge argi... (Scooter) I'm taking the absolute
best care of him that I can, and thank you for the encouragement. I
just wanted to clarify that I wasn't keeping a fish in an
environment where he wasn't getting enough to eat :). <I
understand. Thank you. Bob Fenner>
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Small Marine Aquariums
Book 1:
Invertebrates, Algae
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
Small Marine Aquariums
Book 2:
Fishes
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Small Marine Aquariums
Book 3:
Systems
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Angelfishes for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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New Print Book on Create Space: Available
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner |
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