Ebo-Jager Heater Malfunctions - 08/04/06
Dear Crew,
<<Brad>>
I own 6 of the latest Ebo-Jager heaters.  They were very reliable at first, but now are experiencing two problems: 1) the set-point is drifting, and 2) the dead-band is getting larger (they are sticking on until they reach as much as 5 degrees over set-point).  Of course, this is murder on my poor reef aquarium.  Can you please tell me what are considered to be the most reliable (cost be damned) heaters available so I can rush order some in?
<<Troubling to hear...I have used/relied on Ebo-Jager heaters for decades.  But your account is not the first I've heard, my local reef club has "several" members who have related recent tales of this brand heater "sticking on".  I suspect there has been a design change...too bad.  As for a "reliable" heater I suspect you'll get as many different answers as people you talk to...I've used the Visi-Therm brand with no problems, and my reef display has a couple of Won Brothers Titanium heaters w/remote display/controller which have worked flawlessly for nearly three years now...but there's been mixed reviews on these for sure.
Thank you as always for being there for us,
<<Is a pleasure to assist>>
Brad in Basalt
<<EricR in Columbia>>

Nano Reef Emergency   10/27/06
Dear Mr. Fenner,
         The heater in our 20 gallon  nano reef tank malfunctioned three days ago.  The temperature went from 82  degrees to 95 degrees.  We noticed this in the morning.  As soon as we  did, we took steps to correct it.  We replaced the heater and floated a bag  filled with ice in the tank, as instructed by my LFS.  
<Mmm... better (unless organisms were obviously dying...) to let the temp. return slowly...>
I had to leave  immediately afterwards, on a previously scheduled 3 day vacation with my  parents.  The tank was left in the care of a person who is knowledgeable  about salt water aquariums.  Upon my return, I found almost everything dead  or dying, except for my two ocellaris clown fish and a yellow tail blue damsel  fish.  I have yet to see the firefish.
<These are inappropriately placed here>
My question is, is there  anything I can do to save any of the corals?  Here is a list of corals that  I have.
             1  pagoda cup coral
             1  Lobophyllia
             1  hairy mushroom
             1  xenia
             several  small colonies of star polyps
             several  small mushrooms
Most of the corals look beyond  hope.
        As a warning to anyone who has or  is thinking about buying a heater.
DO NOT GET AN AQUATIC GARDENS  BRAND!!!!!!! I will everything I can to save any of the  corals, considering the combined value of them exceeded  $400.  
I appreciate any help or information that you can give me.
Thanks for the help,
Michael
<Mmm, thank you for the warning. Do search WWM re temperature/thermal stress... Heat/Heating Marine Systems... read the FAQs files. Ideally, moving all the life to larger, new circumstances... Bob Fenner>

The Heat Is On. Or Is It?  Or, Should It Be? (Titanium Heaters)
Hey Crew,
<Scott F. your Crew member today!>
Just a quick question.. I recently purchased a Jalli titanium heater for my reef tank. I looked all over the net for info on this heater, but see barely anything. Do any of you have any experience with this heater or know if this is a good product? I was told by my LFS that this is a very good heater. Thank you.
Chris
<Well, Chris, I do not have experience with this particular brand, but I have used one of the other brands out there (Won Pro Heat II), and was not particularly impressed by it. The thermostat constantly displayed the wrong temperature, for one thing, and the heater seemed to go on for no apparent reason! (not good...). I have heard about similar problems from friends who have tried this brand and a couple of the other titanium models out there. Granted, my experience was with the earlier models, back in 2001, when they just appeared on the market. Perhaps the manufacturers have ironed out the kinks on these. One thing that I will say is that they are tough! It may be a bit of an assumption on my part, but I think that most of the "titanium" heaters out there may be made by the same foreign manufacturer, with some slightly different components. The ones I have seen look quite similar, and the complaints I have heard about poor performance are also similar! I 86'd mine for a good old Ebo Yeager- those green sticks may not be as "sexy", but they sure get the job done! I certainly don't want to discourage you from trying the Jalli, but it may or may not be that different from the unreliable ones that I am aware of. You may want to post on the WWM Forum to see if any fellow hobbyists use these heaters. Stay cool (er, warm...)Good luck! Scott F>

Heater selection - 9/9/03
Hey everyone, <Hi>
Any recommendations for submersible heaters?  I had the Pro-heat Titanium or the Ebo-Jager in mind, but they both seem to have negative reviews. <Either is a fine choice. We use the Visi-Therm at the Monterey Bay Aquarium as well as the two you state above. I personally use Ebo Jaeger on 5 different tanks!>  Are there any other manufactures that u could recommend? <I think the three mentioned above are more than adequate.>  Thanks again for everything. <Our pleasure. -Paul>
Jeremy
Pineville, LA

Learning how to help yourself - using 'Net search tools 10/5/03
(AKA Anthony sounds off again <G>)
Hi guys. I was hoping that someone might be able to shed some light on a forum topic that no one seems to quite know for sure. EBO-JAGER HEATER TS 150 WATT are they totally submersible or not? I know it is a simple question but I and a few of the other fellows on the forum are not sure. I will add though that one of the experienced people on the site has told me they are and I'm leaning to that side of the fence (so to speak). Thank you.  Cheers. Mike
<Mike... I almost want to apologize for seeming brusque. But, I'm not going to... and I may well be, with the hope of using your FAQ to help you (and others) to take just a moment of thought to learn how to help yourself. I take it from your intelligent tone and language that you are an adult. You also have a disclaimer in the sig of your message that bears the mark of an adult user. To the point, you ask a simple question and indicate that you've had a discussion at some length on the forums. You now query us and are willing to wait for a reply on a consumer product. Did it not cross your mind to simply use any of the dozens of internet search tools (Google, Yahoo, MSN, etc) to find the manufacturer's site or any one of their legitimate vendors to answer your question immediately and authoritatively? Rather than waiting for an enabling reply from us... or novices on the forums bantering back and forth. Let me assure you, I'm not miffed with you or anybody that transgresses so... just simply dumbstruck that competent computer users that know how to tie their own shoes and feed themselves will pass the google search tool on our page with the link to e-mail us rather than help themselves. In this case... I got the answer (yes - submersible) in 3 seconds... two of which it took me to type the words "Ebo-Jager TS heater" with three fingers. Some people would say queries like this are folks begging to be spoon fed. Others would say that the reputation for WWM to return fast replies is an enabling vehicle for such behavior. Others still would say that I smell strongly of garlic at times. All three of those things may well be true. For me, I shall pray that I learn more patience in time. For you, I have every hope that you succeed in operating your trouser zipper without injury for a lifetime. In shared admiration of the sea. Anthony>

Graceful reply from a student of life 10/7/03
Anthony... I wanted to apologize for the simple question....But as well, I am not going to.
<no need to my friend. Really just a matter of helping you/yourself to help yourself>
I will though thank you for your clear concise answer to my simple question in the end.
<grazie>
Over the last 6-8 months of researching and Google searching and contacting manufactures, I have found some things are simply asked, but one may fear the repercussions of such simple questions because of the personal opinions one must have to sort out.
<'tis very true... and happens with nearly all Net resources including our own here of course. When researching, we can temper this by gathering up enough opinions (assuming an authoritative answer is not available from the source/author/manufacturer, etc)... and simply make an informed decision based on an intelligent consensus. This will usually level out the influence of opinion in most matters>
I know that in most cases there are no hard, steadfast, black and white answers for most things except for what seems to be working consistently in long term by others.
<true with many aspects of our hobby/trade... there are many ways to skin a catfish, so-to-speak>
I am confident that these Ebo-Jager's are entirely submersible.
<yes... as per the manufacturers statement>
But with that, I know that others are not (at least not until now and I will get over the spanking I have received in asking this). I look to all of you at WWM as my sole teacher
<truly flattering, in all sincerity, but let me encourage you to always consider other sources for perspective too to make your decision based on the consensus>
from all the research I have done, I have found yours to be the most consistent and well delivered.
<thanks kindly... it is a collective hope/aspiration>
As I speak from personal experience, out of all the equipment assigned to a given task in an aquarium or any water related activity, the heater is the primary instrument that could potentially bite back. Even with a GFI. I have been told by people that have not given me any reason to trust them
<hmmm... this is another "not so unclear" aspect of application. GFIs are life-saving and necessary. It is a matter of physics and statistical fact. And short of the inevitable and rare QC defects of mass production (fractions of a percent)... a properly installed GFI does exactly what it promises>
other than the fact that they want to sell me something that the Ebo's are submersible, but most were a little unsure of the max line marking.
<good point... and one to actually heed in fact. Regardless of any mfg claim that such instruments are fully submersible or not... you can help yourself and extend the working life of the product by installing it such that the epoxy sealed cap is slightly above water (reducing wear on the product)>
I wanted to ask you this question because yours is the bottom line answer I trust. Anthony, I can tell by the initial response (and others of yours that I have read) that you do at times get frustrated and I feel for you at times. But this question was important to me. Thanks again.....I do appreciate everything all you guys do. Mike
<and I truly appreciate your grace and understanding in response my friend. Indeed... we do get frustrated... or for me, rather, disappointed seeing intelligent and competent folks blessed with skills and resources that they do not use. A matter of unrealized potential in man. Indeed, it is too lofty of a philosophy to apply to most (all) queries/concerns that we handle... yet it slips through at times. Wishing you peace and long life. Anthony>

In The Dark (Fish Response To Sudden Darkness)
Heya guys...Scott F. thank you for all your recent help regarding chiller and canary wrasse etc etc.... LIFE SAVER.
<Glad to be of service!>
You haven't heard from me in quite a while.. I hope things are doing well.
<They sure are, and it's nice to hear from you again! Scott F. back with you!>
My problem (if one at all) is that my newly introduced (after a stay in QT) yellow tang (2")is acting a fair bit skittish after main MH light goes out and leaves the two actinic fluor's on. To put it simply (sorry I'm very, very tired), he is acting normal when all the lights are on (MH + actinics), swimming normally so and so forth. But as soon as the MH goes off he is pacing up and down very fast. Zipping in and out of everything he can find (not scratching or anything the likes off *touch wood*... haha) like he has had a dozen cups of black coffee.
<I've seen this behavior before in tangs and fairy wrasses. It's kind of unnerving to see!>
Other tank occupants are 2 canary wrasses, 1 ocellaris, 1 fire goby, and the yellow tang. Water parameters are excellent
amm nitrite nitrate 0
ph 8.4
temp 24.9-25.2 deg C no more no less
salinity 1.022
kH 5meq/l
calcium 420ppm
Constant Poly Filter and carbon use (wow what great stuff)
<Yep-I wouldn't run a tank without them!>
actinics are on at 10 am
MH on at 12 noon
MH off at 8pm
actinics off at 10pm
Tank is 40G +15G sump but am upgrading very soon...
Lovely HUGE skimmer producing around a cup of DARK smelly gunk a day... go Australian made!!:-)
<Oy! Oy! If it cranks out dark gunk- it's a winner in my book!>
I hope that I haven't missed anything.
<I think that you hit all of the parameters. Everything seems to be in line. What you are likely seeing is simply a fright reaction on the part of the fish from being plunged into darkness after a day of full intensity light. This would never happen in nature. I guess if you put yourself in the fish's place, you can understand what this must be like for them...Of course, it's probably an individual thing...Some fishes simply can adapt to this dramatic change better than others...I guess a possible way to overcome this would be to be to employ some lower wattage fluorescents (like actinics or blue tinted NO bulbs) to provide a little "twilight" time for the fish before complete darkness. Not a perfect system, but something that is worth a shot. Perhaps, in time, the fish could be "weaned" from the "twilight", but only time will tell...Give it a shot! Regards, Scott F.>
any ideas.. suggestions. person experiences... or anything at all
thanks very much for a simply wonderful site.. I couldn't get by a day w/o it almost :-)
keep up the good work
all help greatly appreciated..
Garth.. from Australia down under!
P.S recently bought a Tronic heater (Hagen).. and all I can say is wow.. I am so very impressed. I have used many heaters before. from Ebo's to Chinese rubbish.. and these are the most accurate I have ever used.. just passing it on.. great heater.

Heating Questions (4/1/2004) 
Hi Bob, I'm setting up a 120 gal fish only tank and want to buy a titanium heater. 
<Michael here. Titanium heaters are great for durability> 
How many watts per gallon do I need for this tank with this type of heater. I have read conflicting information regarding these heaters. One web site said that these heater's get very hot and can stay on longer than glass heaters so you only need 2 watts per gallon. This seems very low. I was thinking of buying the 300 or 350 watt heater. I live in Minnesota and keep the house around 70F year round. 
<3-5 WPG is general rule of thumb, 2 is a little low. 350 should work fine for you, just set the dial to the desired temperature. 70F ambient temperature won't put a massive load on the heater> 
I will also be using a 260 watt power compact light about 3-4 inches above the tank with an egg crate covering the tank instead of a glass top, I can't stand the lime build up on the glass tops. <Never thought of that...wonder if the evaporation would increase> Thanks for the help, Larry from the frozen tundra. 
<Nice and sunny here! M. Maddox>

More on heaters (4/2/2004) 
Thanks for our prompt reply, <Anytime> I have a few more questions about heaters. I checked out the pro heat titanium heaters at the usual mail order company I do business with and they have stopped carrying them do to many returns and customer complaints. Have you heard of any problems with them? <Haven't used them personally, but I haven't heard of any problems. Might want to ask in the WWM or reefcentral forums to get a consensus> I checked with other mail order stores and they have reported no such problems. If there are problems with these titanium heaters I may buy the Silica power glass heaters with an IC controller made by Azoo. They come in 300 and 500 watts. Have you heard of these heaters <no personal experience with this brand either, though I have had good luck with Aquarium Systems Visi-Therm and Ebo-Jager heaters> and would the 500 watt heater be too much for my 120 gal or should I go with the 300 watt. <If they have a temperature control dial then they shouldn't be too hot unless it malfunctioned and got stuck in the "on" position> I will not be using a sump for at least 1 year and my tank top will be an egg crate. Thanks again, Larry, defrosting in Minnesota. 
<Hope I helped. M. Maddox, sweating in his tank induced warm, humid bedroom>

Heater Question
Hello,
Even the best heaters on the market claim a +/- 1 degree F resolution. For example, Ebo Jager is +/- 0.5 C, or +/- 1 F. The Won Brothers Pro Heat II heater also has the same resolution. Thus, the heater should hold the temperature to within a 2 degree range. Now, most reef experts say that a tank's temperature should not vary more than 1-2 degrees in a day, or things are getting dangerous. However, even the better heaters only barely meet the high end of that recommendation. Therefore, my question is: How can this recommendation be right? Shouldn't the recommendation be "The time-averaged temperature shouldn't vary more than 1-2 degrees in a day"? Because if you consider a moving average of the tank temperature over a period of about 3 hours, the temperature certainly stays within a 1 degree range 24/7.<Jonathan, your correct in your thinking.  No need to worry.  James (Salty Dog)
P.S. Sorry for the complicated and question
Thanks,
Jonathan Cox

Buoyant Heater Warning!!
Dear Crew,
<Paul>
I appreciate the great information that you have provided me and now I believe I can contribute some useful information in return.
<Okay> 
I'd like to caution everyone about using the new aquarium heaters that are made from clear "unbreakable" plastic materials. I acquired one of these heaters that was imported from Italy. The heater I had acquired for my refugium was very buoyant. When its rubber suction cups come loose, the heater floats to the water surface with the bottom end sticking out of the water. The exposure of the heater to air will cause overheating.
<Yikes! What a design defect!>
Apparently, the heater floated loose when I was away on vacation. When I came home, the heater had overheated and exploded with plastic particles adhering to the walls and ceiling of my refugium cabinet. 
<Yeeikes!>
Luckily, the GFI circuit had cut power from the heater and from the pumps that circulate water between the refugium and the main tank. Otherwise, I would have had to clean out not only my refugium but also my main tank as well. I hope that this is news you can use.
Regards,
Paul
<Thank you for sending this along. Am glad you had the GFI and that no one was hurt, your place didn't burn down. Bob Fenner>