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FAQs on Establishing Nutrient/Biological Cycling in Marine Systems 9
Related FAQs: Establishing Cycling 1,
Establishing Cycling 2, Establishing
Cycling 3, Establishing Cycling 4,
Establishing Cycling 5,
Establishing Cycling 6, Marine
Cycling 7, Marine Cycling 8,
Marine Cycling 10, & FAQs on Biological Cycling:
Science/Rationale, Techniques/Methods:
Seeding Filter Media, Live Rock/Sand,
Using Livestock, Cycling Products: By
Manufacturers/Names: Bio-Spira, Cycle...
Chemical Feeding, Anomalies/Fixing 1,
Trouble/Fixing 2, & Fluidized Beds,
Undergravel Filters/Filtration, Denitrification/Denitrifiers,
Ammonia, Nitrites,
Nitrates, Phosphates, &
Nutrient Export, Related Articles:
Establishing Cycling,
Biofiltration, A whole lot of
Jellies, pic by
Jen SaFranko | 
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New Tank, Old Rock 7/11/07
I am about to set up a new FOWLR
(which I want to slowly convert to a reef). I have a 46 gallon bowfront
with 2 emperor 400's and an AC 75 gallon rated protein skimmer. I am
buying 60 lbs of premium Fiji from a friend of mine who has a beautiful
300 gallon reef in his office (Ah, the life of a doctor!) and the rock
has been in that tank for 18 months with no problems. <Nice> His office
is relocating and cannot fit a tank that size so I am going to
capitalize on that opportunity! I am also going to buy 20 lbs of live
sand and also take sand from my friends tank as well. <Could probably
skip buying the sand and just let normal "dead" sand colonize.> My
question is regarding the cycling of my tank. I have cycled tanks the
traditional way (4-6 weeks of watching the water quality) I am wondering
if I will have to do that again? <They cycle will probably go faster.>
The rock will be placed in 5 gallon buckets with the water from his tank
so die off should be nearly non existent. <More than you would think.>
He said my tank probably won't even spike and I could add live stock
right away. <I would not.> I'm leery but it seems to make sense. What do
you think?
Thanks so much for your help! Keep up the fantastic work!
Brian
<I think that I would cycle it as normal, if nothing else the
4 weeks fallow will help prevent any disease transmission. Better slow
and steady here.>
<Chris>
Re: was... Micro Bubbles, now... new ozone reactor reaction to cycling
7/10/07
Hi!
<Howzit?>
Ok, I think I found the leak. The
side in question gets a little wet if the pipe is bumped. It is coming
from the bulkhead somewhere. Also, when the pipe is bumped the bubbles
increase in spurts.
<Oops! Ah ha!>
So I have a new bulkhead on the
way to take care of that.
If you don't mind, I have another problem.
My tank is about 6 months old and water was staying pretty good (ammonia
0, nitrites 0, nitrates under 5ppm)
Ph is a consistent 8, Alk 8 dKH
and calcium at 380 to 400.
I added a sander ozonizer about 2 weeks
ago.
<Good units>
I have a 100mg unit hooked to an ORP controller.
ORP has never gone above 350.
Now I am getting ammonia 0, nitrites at
.75ppm and nitrate at 20ppm.
<Mmm, likely the microbes that do that
voodoo that they do so well with nitrogenous cycling are taking a hit
from the higher O3 effects...>
I have a 125 gallon tank, a 50 gallon
refugium and a 25 gallon sump.
AquaC EV120 skimmer, 2 GENX PCX70
pumps.
Korallin C1502 calcium reactor. 120 pounds of live rock, 4 to
5 inches of sugar sized aragonite in refugium and tank.
Stock is 1
Naso tang 5 inches, 2 1 inch ocellaris clowns, 4 Chromis (1 inch or
less) 1 lawnmower blenny 4 inches, 1 Kole tang 4 inches, 1 coral beauty
angel 3 inches.
Would the addition of the ozonizer make it go through
another cycle?
<Mmm, yes, could...>
Is there anything you would
recommend doing?
<Being careful re feeding till all re-settles>
Thank you very much for your time,
David Matza
<Welcome. Bob
Fenner>
Cycling/skimmer and retail 7/8/07
Hi Bob& Co,
Its
me again with some more silly questions as I am just getting started.
<Heeee! I'm full of them still!>
1. Bob, from your book I note that
you live in San Diego as well.
<Yes>
Can you recommend any/some
retailers in SD that are "Conscientious Aquarist"?
<Oh, yes... Pat
Hurley's stores, the Aquatic Warehouse, and Ron Elander's Octopus's
Garden are faves (both out in Kearny Mesa)... and there are some good
folks down at Fountain's in La Mesa. There are some other purportedly
good stores in town, but I don't know them well enough to "plug" here>
2. I got water from Scripps and am letting it sit in the dark for two
weeks.
<Mmmm... I would NOT use this water by and large... see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/index.htm
scroll down... the
dull blue line/tray>
I am about to cycle the tank. You say in your
book not to run the skimmer for the first month while it cycles.
<Usually the case, yes>
Is that because the skimmer would keep it too
clean that the cycling wouldn't even occur if I run it?
<Mostly,
yes... Forestalls>
3. Any recommendations for master test kit?
<Mmm, Hach, LaMotte...>
Do those 5 in 1 strips work well?
<No...
neither accurate, nor precise...>
Couldn't find any here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/martstkituse.htm
Cheers,
Ganz
<And
you. Bob Fenner>
Tank set-up and cycling question 6/25/07
Hi
<HI
Nicholas, Marie here today>
One more before I go and teach some
younglings. I've had my tank set up for about a week and a half now, and
I've have LR, LS, and one damsel.
<Poor damsel! >
I also added a
pouch of that bacteria in a bag. I don't remember the brand name,
however it seems like it has one heck of an effect.
<What type of an
effect? >
I have not seen spikes of ammonia nor nitrites. However, I
am seeing levels of 10 ppm of nitrates.
<10ppm of nitrates does not
seem too high for a FO system; generally fish can tolerate nitrate
levels up to approximately 40ppm>
If you already have sufficient
bacteria from the live sand, live rock, and bacterial product you added
you may actually be able to handle the bioload of one fish. I know that
the instructions for adding these bio-products include adding fish
immediately in conjunction with the product, however there are much more
humane ways to add ammonia to the tank like adding just a pinch or flake
food each day>
Do I have a normal cycle going, or is the cycle
complete since I am seeing the nitrates? Should I just let everything
spike,
<Again, no livestock should have to go through the punishment
of ammonia spike when this is totally avoidable. >
or will it even do
that considering I already have nitrates?
<The tank is usually
considered fully cycled once your ammonia and nitrite levels have come
back down to zero. I would recommend reading the following article on
the Nitrogen cycle: www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm, and this
article on nitrates: www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm, these articles
should answer most of your questions. >
Thank you once again!
Nicholas Wilhelm
<Your welcome Nicholas,
Marie>
"The Mystery of The Missing Nitrogen Cycle" (Marine Aquarium Cycling
Query) 6/24/07
Hi, thanks for taking the time to read
this!
<Always fun for us! Scott F. here this afternoon...>
I am a
little bit confused as of right now.
<That's me on any given day-
don't sweat it!>
I've had my tank set up for about 3 and a half weeks
now. I have a 30g, 20 pounds of LR, LS as the substrate, and added
Bio-Spira(?) about a week ago. I am not reading anything with my liquid
tests. I have two sets, thinking maybe one of the tests were off. Both
tests show that I have ZERO ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.
<Were
you ever getting detectible ammonia or nitrite during this period? If
the tank is "cycled", there should have been some detectible ammonia and
nitrite spike. With some live rock in their, you certainly introduced a
potential ammonia source. I would cautiously operate under the
assumption that the system has cycled over that period of time...Note
the word "cautiously". I hate to "assume", but if you didn't test the
water throughout the period and there was a potential source of ammonia
in there from the get go, it's a slightly safer one, IMO. On the other
hand, if you have a conservative streak in you like I do, you'll start
throwing in some frozen food and seeing what your water tests like in
several days...>
I am getting brown algae, or diatoms, but my levels
show that nothing is happening. Is it safe to assume that the cycle may
be complete?
<As above. Proceed with extreme caution. There's
obviously sufficient nutrient in your system to feed the algae, of
course!>
Are the nitrates, if the cycle is complete, being sucked up
by the diatoms?
<Diatoms are large consumers of silicates. Other
algaes certainly do utilize nitrate, as well as phosphate, but I think
that it would be reaching to assume that ALL nitrate is being consumed
by the algae.>
I had a hermit crab hitchhiker on a piece of LR that I
put in a week ago, and he seems to be doing fine, so I'm not really sure
where I'm at. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!!
<Again, I recommend proceeding with caution. It's important to test for
ammonia and nitrite from the minute you set up your system, so that you
know exactly what's going on and where you are in the cycling process.
Keep testing as you add your first few animals (after quarantine, of
course!) and keep careful records. Best of luck on your new adventure!
Regards, Scott F.>
Re: new to marines 6/9/07
Hi
<Greetings, GrahamT with you
today!>
I have had a look around your site, it's sometimes difficult
to find what you want because there's so much there.
<I'll take that
as a compliment. ;) >
I did find this, but I'm not sure what it
means:
Introduce the beneficial microbes in a culture, established
gravel, or "used" filter media, plus a source of nutrient (appropriate
damsels, blennies, food, nitrogenous compounds). Monitor and record the
nitrogen cycle for whatever time it takes (generally no more than 6-8
weeks) until there is no detectable ammonia or nitrite. Fire over your
skimmer and begin adding other livestock.
<This means that the
"beneficial microbes" (the ones responsible for reducing/converting
toxic byproducts of the animals in a closed system) can be introduced
via a culture (read: grown for retail sale/distribution in a vial or
other form), established gravel (read: gravel from a friend's
established system), or filter media from that same friend's system. The
nitrifying bacteria take time to grow in populations sufficient to
maintain a balance in a system without toxic results.>
For
Invertebrate and Reef Systems For Invertebrate and Reef Systems: Wait a
week after set-up and either go through the bacterial introduction and
monitoring the water for cycling as above or initiate same with
live-rock and/or live-sand.
<Good practice in any case.>
- will
live rock & sand be sufficient to start the bacteria growing, or do I
need to add anything else?
<It will be sufficient as long as the rock
and/or sand are moved in a timely manner and the bacteria stay alive.
This is not overly difficult, and is a common practice in the hobby.
Good luck! and here is some reading for you to brush up on.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marcyclefaqs.htm Read below and all the links
in blue. You get lost in the sea of info, but it's worth it!
-GrahamT>
Regards
Len
Going Natural (Yanking Biological Filter Media) 6/9/07
Hello
guys!
<Hey there! Scott F. with you today!>
What a great site you
guys have put together! Thanks for that by the way! :)
<We appreciate
the kind words!>
Ok- my 55g FOWLR setup is this: 55lbs of live Sand,
56lbs of Live Rock, a ZooMed Power Sweep and Maxijet 900 for water
movement, an Aqua C Remora skimmer w/ Maxijet 1200. I also have a Eheim
Classic canister running too with just bio-media in it. My question is
can my tank handle a bioload if I remove my canister. My livestock so
far is one Black Ocellaris Clown, 2 Peppermint Shrimps, 1 Cleaner
Shrimp, 1 Emerald Crab, 5 Blue Leg Hermit Crabs, 4 Turbo snails. I want
to get more livestock down the road this is why I am asking. I
eventually want a pygmy Rusty Angel and a Yellow Tang.
<As an aside,
I'd go for a smaller Centropyge Angelfish species, like the C.
flavicaudus or C. argi, which stay small (generally 3 inches or less).
The Rusty tends to get a bit larger (towards 5") and may not be a good
long-term resident in a system of this size. Ditto for the Tang. This
sized aquarium just does not offer enough "physical space" for this
species to be happy for its full life span.>
Can my LS/LR handle this
or should I look into curing more LR for my bioload??
<In my
experience, you certainly could dump the bio media if you are good with
your husbandry practices, such as regular, small water changes, good
skimming (yielding daily skimmate), and perhaps the use and replacement
of chemical filtration media, such as activated carbon or Poly Filter.
Also, resist the temptation to overstock your tank; understand its
limits, and add new inhabitants slowly. The bacteria in your rock and
sand can certainly do the job if you follow the simple concepts outlined
above.>
Thanks in advance! Once again, thank you for
wetwebmedia.com!!!! Brad
<Glad to be of service, Brad! Best of luck!
Regards, Scott F.> Changing
Canister Filters...How Long To Establish Bio-Filtration? – 05/29/07
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I bought a new, larger canister filter for my
well-established tank (5 years running minus two moves). I have both
canisters running to get the new one started.
<<I see...is used for
biological filtration then>>
How long do you think I should run the
new one before safely removing the old one?
<<Seven days should be
sufficient>>
Thanks...I tried to search for this but it's a difficult
one to word in a search engine.
Lance
<<No worries mate, happy to
assist. EricR>> Transferring To New Tank...Cycle First
Or Use Existing Media? – 05/21/07
Hi,
<<Hello>>
I am
frequent reader of your website and I have a question to ask.
<<Okay>>
I have a 55-gallon tank with 2 Common Clowns,1 Bicolor
Angel, 1 Bird Wrasse,1 Royal Gramma and two Sailfin Tangs one yellow
and the other one brown.
<<Too many active/large fishes for this
tank>>
They all have done well for about four years. I am now
building a new tank of about 120-gallons.
<<Ah...much better>>
My question is how am I going to transfer the fish in the new
aquarium? Can I use the existing biological filter media?
<<This
can be/has been done this way, though I don’t recommend it unless
absolutely necessary and/or the aquarist is very experienced and well
aware of the dangers re. In addition to transferring the biological
media, do also transfer as much of the old system water as possible. Be
sure to add chemical filtration (carbon/Poly-Filter)...monitor water
parameters very closely for the next week...and have plenty of saltwater
on hand that has been “mixed and aged” ahead of time for performing
large water changes should the need arise>>
And if yes how long
should I take to transfer the fish?
<<As long as it takes to
transfer the media/water>>
Or should I recycle the tank from the
beginning?
<<This is the best method, in my opinion>>
Thank you
in advance.
Anthony Zahra
<<Happy to assist. Eric Russell>>
Quicker cycle? FW and SW nitrifying bacteria are different strains
5/21/07
<Hi Breanna, Mich here.>
I have a well-established
cichlid tank, which I want to turn into SW.
<OK.>
This is a
healthy tank no diseases or issues.
<OK.>
I'm wondering if I
make the N cycle quicker, if not skip it, if I save the water from this
tank?
<Mmm, nope, different strains of bacteria at work here. More
here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm
>
I could get rid of the fish, decor, fw plants, gravel, leave the
under gravel filter alone as much as possible mix in salt to right level
put in play/live sand, and a few pieces of live rock....
<I
personally would remove the undergravel filter when setting up a marine
tank. More here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/u_gfiltmarfaqs.htm >
Guess the real
question: is the bacteria that changes ammonium to nitrate in a fw tank
the same as in a sw tank?
<That is the question and the answer is
no.>
Would I be better off "gutting" and cleaning and starting the
standard way?
<Yep! Your live rock will be the most helpful in
cycling your system. Start fresh! Mich>
thanks
Breanna
Tank Moving and Cycling – 5/1/07
Hi ya'll!! Love the site!
<Hey there! Thanks!>
I'm a newbie to saltwater and am asking this
question for more for my own edification than anything else.
<ok>
I just mixed water and salt mix in my 75 gallon tank. I added 60lbs of
live sand and 72lbs of live rock. Within 24 hours of doing this, I had
a tank-filter hose leak bad enough where I had to break down the tank,
move it, pull up the carpet / padding and have to have the carpet pad
replaced and the carpet replaced.
<Eeek! That’s not fun.>
My
questions are
(1) now that I've setup the tank in a temporary
location, I'm presuming that I will use the test kit to determine if the
cycle has finished and perform a water change as needed to get the
levels down just like it were in it's original spot?
<Yes. When
your ammonia and nitrites are back down to zero, it is cycled. If they
do not rise much, you may want to add a tiny bit of fish food to get it
going. If it is well cured live rock, you may not see any cycle, and
readings will stay at zero. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm >
(2) When I get
ready to move the tank back it's original position, will it need to
recycle b/c the live rock will exposed to air, albeit a short time,
again b/c of the breakdown process?
<No. If you just remove it all
to containers while you move the tank and setup, you should not have any
appreciable loss of bacteria. Don’t leave the rock out of water, just
set it in the containers of water. Buy some Rubbermaid stock if you are
planning on being in this hobby for long – we keep them in
business. Hee!>
Is there anything else that I need to worry about
or can do to take
preventative measure - or am I just extending the
time before I can get fish and inverts by doing another move?
<This
should not slow you down. It is just very inconvenient.>
Many
thanks in advance!
<Welcome. Alex> Cycle time when seeding
from existing setup 4/26/07
Hello and thank you for your time.
<Greetings and you are welcome.>
First off I just love your web
site! I have spent years looking at it.
<Ditto. I still
learn from it myself!>
As a long time keeper of fresh water systems,
I know to instant cycle a new tank I just add the filter media from an
old tank and go from there. Does the same principle work for marine
tanks?
<More or less, but the fish depend on a more
stable environment that can only be provided with a little more time
than you are used to. You can't just plop the filter in and go get some
fish. You'll need to test the water and watch for the spikes of ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate that indicate when the cycle is complete.
Furthermore, the longer you can wait before introducing fish or inverts
will add to the stability.>
The reason I am asking is I have a 5
year old FOWLR nano system and I am thinking of moving up to a 55g
tank. Besides a little extra lbs of new live rock I plan on using all
of my existing sand, rock and equipment. Now on to my question. How
much time should pass between the initial tank set up of the 55g with
cured live rock and moving the live rock, sand and other occupants of
the 5 year old system to the new tank.
<To be safe, I
would wait at least a month, but your test results will give you a
better idea. I would feel good about waiting an additional week to a
month *AFTER* the test results indicate "safe conditions" abound.>
I
don't want to hurt any of my thriving critters.
<A just cause,
indeed.>
Again thank you for your time,
Vicki S
<You're
welcome, Vicky! Good luck to you!
-GrahamT>
LR Cycling – 4/12/2007
I just got a 12g Nano tank and I
added 12lbs of Molokai live rock. I heard from multiple people that
if the rock is already cured that it might not do a normal cycle
spike.
<Theoretically true, but “cured” doesn’t always mean the
same thing. Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lrcurefaqs.htm >
So far it’s only
been 4 days but nothing really changed.
<Really?>
People
from the forums suggested I can already add a cleanup crew
and a
fish.
<Hopefully you are not planning to put more than one tiny
fish in this small of a tank.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nanoreefsysart.htm is a very nice
article with links above.>
Should I do a PWC and start adding?
<Based on the water parameters listed below, your tank IS cycling,
and you need to have patience and let it finish. Um, ammonia going
from 0.25 the first day to 1.5 the next 3 days is a spike!! When it
is zero and the nitrite is zero, then it is cycled. I am not sure
why the NO3 is so high so early, unless you brought your water from
an established tank. You will need to do a PWC (or several) to
bring this down after the cycle is finished.>
Will the coralline
spread to the front rocks and dead coral?
<Yes. The live rock
will seed the other pieces.>
Should I remove the clam?
<No. It will not hurt anything. If it is alive (closing when
disturbed), I would leave it alone. However, you might want to
remove the Aiptasia anemone in picture 3. And more reading material:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/cnidaria/anthozoa/aiptasia/aiptasia.htm>
Thanks, Jarett
<You’re welcome. Cheers, Alex.>
pH = 8.0 all
four days <A little low, should come up when cycling is finished.>
NO2 = 0.3 all four days <Will spike next.>
NH3 = 0.25 first day,
1.5 three next days <Spiking now.>
KH = 10 third and 9 fourth
day
NO3= 25 third and fourth day <Starting high.>
<Your
subscripts didn’t translate to our font, so I had to assume
subscripts based on your values.> | .jpg) 
|
Nitrifying Bacteria Wipe Out? (Heater Breakdown) 3/16/2007
Hello to all,
<Hi.>
Need to ask one question on the bacteria,
I've recently lost a marine aquarium to a heater malfunction. Of course
it stayed on instead of off. Like they usually do.
<Sorry to hear
that, recommend going with two heaters next time, lower wattage. There
is still a risk but if one goes awry again...it's less likely to cook a
tank since it's not as powerful....and less likely two will go down
simultaneously.>
My question is how high a temp. can the bacteria
take before dying?
<Unless the tank literally boils for a sustained
period of time, it is not likely you will kill all of the bacteria.
There will however be a die off and it will take time for them to
procreate and return to optimal levels. Think of it as restarting your
nitrogen cycle.>
Thanks so much for your answer.
<Of course.>
Jim Jesko
<Adam Jackson.> Cycling Refugium With BioSpira
(But why?) 3/14/07
Hi All,
<Hi, "D". GrahamT here.>
I
have set up a 6 gallon Eclipse tank as a refugium for my 10 gallon nano
reef.
<I love refugiums... and adding volume for that
matter.>
I started the cycling about 2 weeks ago using a piece of
frozen shrimp to get the ammonia in there (Left it in for 1 week then
removed).
<Wait. You are cycling a refugium? This
doesn't compute. If you are adding more volume in the form of a refugium
to one system, and it is destined to contain exactly the same water as
the main system, then why would we cycle it separately??? (Or at all)>
My LFS usually carries BioSpira but they were out and said it was on
order. This past weekend I went back only to find they just placed the
order and it would be another 2 weeks... so I ordered BioSpira from Drs.
Foster and Smith online Saturday P.M. Product shipped Monday, received
the package overnight A.M.; products still cold, well packaged great
service by the way). I took a reading on the ammonia, nitrite and
nitrates and of course they all top the charts.
<Well,
of course...>
I added some of the BioSpira (the 1 oz is for 30
gallons and this is only 6) with plans to add some more later. (Package
clipped tightly closed and replaced in fridge.) Then later add some
Right Now! by HDLtd which I have found really helps in knocking down the
nitrates.
<Not sure how that could be. Isn't "Right
Now!" a live bacteria (like Bio-Spira)? It doesn't claim to contain any
anoxic or anaerobic bacteria capable of reducing Nitrates.>
But
while doing a search on the WWM site for BioSpira I ran across the
sentence...""They, and the microbes in the BioSpira were poisoned,
hemolyzed in the fishes' case, by the ammonia..."" So I became confused
as to the use of BioSpira and I'm quite possibly misunderstanding the
statement.
<Nah, that's just Bob trying to scare you
into cycling a tank properly. ;)> <<You are perceptive. RMF>>
But it
has me thinking that by adding BioSpira to a tank high in ammonia I'm
killing the beneficial microbes and in fact wasting my time adding the
product. Please clarify this for me. If I need to do a water change to
dilute the high readings somewhat before adding more BioSpira, please
let me know.
<This is news to me. Bob has just earned a
forward from me. My research on hemolization tells me it can apply to
this situation, but is rather vague specifically with the microbial
"form". Hemolyzed red blood cells are ruptured, not sure how ammonia
does this, but I am not a bio-chemist. This one is for Bob.><<Way too
much ammonia/ammonium presence will kill beneficial microbes... cause
hemolysis (in animals with RBC's natch). RMF>>
I was running a
carbon filter. I removed the carbon bag before adding the BioSpira.
<Not necessary, will not filter out anything that Bio-Spira metabolizes,
and can actually provide a ton of surface area for the bacteria to live
on.>
(Whisper inside filter because of the low water level... below
bulkhead and left the bio-filter in place) The refugium has a 4-1/2"
sand bed and that is all that's in the refugium at this time. I know I
need to have all parameters in this tank identical to my main tank
before even considering tying them together.
<The
simplest way to achieve this would be to fill it with water from the
display and some substrate, immediately tying them together.>
I have
some extra live rock from rearranging my main tank which I plan to add
after the ammonia, nitrite & nitrate levels are to 0. Then I'll add
Chaeto. Should I put a cleanup crew in my refugium?
Move a couple snails and/or a hermit crab; was thinking to order some
brittle stars to put in there.
<Not necessary, doesn't
hurt unless you worry about competition from the hermits for pods.>
The live rock has bristle worms and Gammarus shrimp already. Love the
Gammarus shrimp... highly entertaining and excellent
scavengers. Afterwards, my thoughts are during my main tank water
changes to remove equal water from refugium and replace it with the
removed water from the main tank. Should I do this for a week or two
before tying them together?
<Would do it once and
have done with it altogether. I think it's good that you worry about the
condition of the 'fuge, but I think this could be going faster and
smoother if you just tie-in to the main display and let everything
equalize. The system wouldn't spike if you had started this way, but now
you don't want to introduce the elevated levels of ammonia, nitrite and
nitrate into your main system. Live and learn. I would be more concerned
doing it this way that your 'fuge is chemically different in many ways
from the display, and when you finally do "join" them, there will be a
period of accelerated acclimation. That said, I think you'll still be
fine, because you have a plan and you know what to look for. Good luck!
-GrahamT>
Thanks again.
Regards,
Debbie P. Graham
tattle tail-ing on Brandon... 3/11/07
Bob,
<Big
G!>
Was just looking over the current dailies and came across a post
titled, "Kalk & Nano 3/11/07" answered by Brandon. It jumped out at me
because he mentioned cycling with livestock.
<<I thought that this
was O.K. I will research it further, has worked for me in the past
however.>>
Even more than that though, was that there is a perfect
example of the silly conversation we've been having about the incomplete
URLs in his post. Look for his link to:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/kalkh20faq2.htm and you'll see what I
mean.
<<Checked the dailies and have seen what you are talking
about. Perhaps someone could have pointed this out sooner? Don't want
to be a trouble maker. I think that the links are getting messed up in
the copy/paste operations from Word to Webmail. I totally missed
this. Will make sure it doesn't happen again. I know that Bob is busy
and it helps when we do the proofreading on our own messages, but I am
only human, and I miss things.>>
<Did see>
There, now you have a
visual aid for what I already know you know about. I'm a proponent of
talking things to death sometimes... it's true.
And to Brandon,
shame on you! j/k
<<I have put myself in the corner for the last
thirty minutes. Brandon.>>
-GrahamT
<Mmm, still a S.O.P.
with/for many... B>
<<Heeee! No worries. BobF>
Brandon, Brandon!
You had better stop with the trouble making, or I'll use YOU to cycle a
15 gallon FOWLR with 5 pounds of live rock!
Where's my wet noodle?!?
I hope you were snickering when writing this. I hate to think I made
anyone think I'm policing them. I am slightly surprised to see it
recommended to use livestock to cycle, though I didn't think you'd be
put out by it. You weren't, right? I'm just covering my arse, right?
RIGHT? Oh great! Now he's not even talking to me. Wonderful.
;) You
can come out of the corner now...
-Graham Re: Graham
tattle tail-ing on Brandon... 3/11/07
Brandon,
Brandon! You had better stop with the trouble making, or I'll use YOU to
cycle a 15 gallon FOWLR with 5 pounds of live rock!
Where's my wet
noodle?!? I hope you were snickering when writing this.
<Actually, I
was giggling.>
I hate to think I made anyone think I'm policing
them.
<I have done the same thing regarding a post by a crew member
that said that there are many white H. crispa found in nature. So I
will not fault you for the same thing. There is nothing wrong with
being passionate, besides if we didn‘t check up on each other, this site
wouldn‘t be the best of it‘s kind. So please feel free to let me know
if you feel I have miss stepped. I welcome this sort of thing. It is
how one learns.>
I am slightly surprised to see it recommended to
use livestock to cycle, though I didn't think you'd be put out by it.
You weren't, right? I'm just covering my arse, right? RIGHT?
<Well I figured that it was all right to use live stock. When I did my
75g reef, I put in ~120 pounds of cured live rock, and two or three
fish. A P. hexataenia, and two P. biaculeatus. Let it run like this
for about two weeks, and the cycle was done. Turbo cycling. But no I
would not put fish in a tank with live rock that has yet to be cured.>
Oh great! Now he's not even talking to me. Wonderful.
<HA! Good
luck! My wife says I can’t shut up! So does my boss!>
;) You can
come out of the corner now...
<I have been out of the corner for
about an hour now. I had to go pick up a Trachyphyllia for my display
tank. They guy that sold it to me charged me $10 extra bucks because he
said that it was a Wellsophyllia! I think that this is punishment
enough. (;^D). Brandon.>
-Graham Tank not Cycling!
– 03/09/07
Hey Bob
<Brandon with you tonight.>
I would
just like to thank you and the crew for all the work you do helping us
marine novices.
<You're welcome, we were all novices once.>
I’ve been cycling my 130 L (I think about 30 gallons) with 6 Kg (13
pounds) of LR. My LFS recommended no substrate; they seemed to think
that LR would be enough to cycle it. <Live Rock is not technically what
cycles the tank. There are bacteria on the rock that have to grow in
order for the Nitrogen cycle to start.> I’m running a JEBO 180 hang-on
Skimmer during the day (not at night cause the thing is really LOUD). I
have DIY in-built wet/dry filtration system and an extra power head for
circulation. I’ve had my tank
up a running for about 6 weeks now and
it seems like my test results never change. <Are there fish in the
tank?>
0,5 mg/l NH3
0,1 mg/l NO2 (Hard to tell it, might just be
0. I find it hard to read the colour chart.)
0,0 mg/l N03 (Again
hard to tell, as the colours for 0,5 and 10 look the same.)
pH 8.2
SG 1.026
Temp 26 (79)
Seeing these results give me the
impression that it’s hardly even started cycling. <I had a recent issue
with NO2 that I think is applicable here. I could not seem to get the
NO2 to drop in my tank for anything. I have had the tank running for a
year. I wound up removing all the live rock, and vacuuming the gravel
very thoroughly. This did the trick for me. I would try
this. Something that you are not aware of could have died under the
sand.> I was just wondering when it was time to start panicking that it
won’t cycle. <It will cycle eventually.> Also with my last couple of
tanks I noticed that when they were cycling that there lots of little
critters moving around but in this tank
there doesn’t appear to be
any. <The ammonia might be too high. I would be looking for dead
critters at this point. Could be built up organics in the water
too. Run the skimmer 24 hours a day for about a week and see what
happens. 8-10 hours is kind of a long time to leave the skimmer
off. Perhaps you could sell this one and get an AquaC Remora. These
are pretty quiet. I personally like to run my skimmer in the sump. I
would vacuum the substrate very well, even up under the rock. I know
that it is not generally recommended to do this, but this is a special
case here. The bacteria will grow based off of available food. The
caveat of this, is that sometimes there is so much available food that
the bacteria can't grow fast enough to dispose of it all, and you will
experience a sort of lag. I have had great success with trying to cut
the amount down. It seems that the bacteria catch up rather quickly
when you do this. Try it out, run the skimmer, and after about two
weeks you should have better numbers.> All I’m getting is lots and lots
of algae but this has slowed down because I’m only running the lights
for 4 hours a day instead of 7. <If there are no fish, I would not even
bother with the lights. The algae are growing because of an excess of
nutrients. There is a possibility that this rock was not properly cured
as well. It happens sometimes. To cure the rock run the tank fallow
with the lights off for about four weeks. After that you should be
ready to cycle.> I purchased the LR rock from the same LFS as my other
tanks and did exactly the same thing as my other tanks.
Thanks for
the help
<I tossed a lot of ideas at you, I hope that one of them
helps. Brandon> Alkalinity high, Ca low - ph stuck 8.0
2/25/07
Wife and I have new 75g tank set up and cycling. 2 weeks
old.
20g sump and ASM G2 skimmer
Trying to monitor levels and do
what is necessary to get water chemistry right while cycling tank
<Okay>
100# Kaelini live rock uncured originally I think
<Yes...
is a "Walt Smith" Fiji product... named after one of his and Deb's
daughters... have been out collecting... seen the process there for
cleaning...>
Instant Ocean with RO/DI water
2" aragonite sand
bed
Here are latest water tests pH - 8.0 can't seem to get it up to
8.3.
<No worries... mostly the affects of LR curing...>
Initially was around 7.8
We have added 4 tsp (80g dosage) SeaChem
Marine 8.3 buffer on about 4 different days, raised pH to 8.0 but no
higher
<Is fine>
temp - ranges from 78-81. do I need more fan
to stabilize this better or is this normal?
<Is fine as well>
actinics(4-65w) on for 8hrs with MH (2-250w) on for 6hrs
<Would
extend once rock is cured>
Ammon-0 spiked to high of 8.0 and dropped
Nitrites -test .5 today , spiked as high as 5.0
Nitrates - had
spiked as high as 80 now hovering at 20 last several days.
Is our
cycle about to finish??
<Mmm, yes, likely so>
My Alk is at 14
dKH today up from 12 last several days.
<Less of the alkalinity
buffer to add...>
Calcium is at 280 up from 240.
<More of the
alkaline earth to add...>
The only thing we have added is about 4
daily doses over 2 weeks of SeaChem buffer to try and get pH to 8.3
and about 3 doses of Oceans Blend 2 part liquid to try to raise Calcium.
<Stop the former, continue the latter>
All this at recommendation of
LFS
They said don't worry with water changes yet, just let cycle
complete.
<About right>
No livestock at all.
Pretty coralline on live rock bleached out to pure white initially, but
now appears to be coming back in some places
Last several days have
a little green algae starting to form on rock and glass. Looks like
single strands about 1/2" long.
Today noticed white minute particles
floating around. Thought it may be micro bubbles, but don't believe it
is air.
Also first time noticed a light film on surface of water in
one side of tank. Redirected Powerheads and seems to be getting better
but not completely gone. No film had been seen in previous 2 weeks.
Skimmer running from day one,, poly in filter section.
I want to
raise Calcium up, LFS said use 2 part mix.
<Is one route... see WWM
re>
We have added about 2-3 dosages of 2 part mix, not sure of what
dosage to use, we added 15ml of each part.
<Just keep measuring,
recording the results of what you add...>
This has raised Calcium
from 240 to 280, but also Alk from 12 to 14 dKH
Can I use only
Calcium part of 2 part mix??
<Yes>
As I think my Alk is
beginning to get to the high side, right??
<Yes... I would leave off
boosting it beyond 12dKH>
Thanks in advance for your help;
Butch
<Enjoy the process. Bob Fenner> Marine Cycling Bio-Spira
2/16/07
Dear Crew,
<Hello>
I have searched and have not
found these specific answers. I started my marine tank (hopefully a
reef) about 5 weeks ago. 20 gallon, 12 lb. live rock, Penguin 150
bio-wheel and Prizm protein skimmer. <That skimmer does not have the
best reputation, may want to consider replacing it.> With the
recommendation of the LFS, I set up the tank, LR, water and filters one
day and added Bio-Spira the next day along with 3 clowns, 1 flaming
angel and a yellow anemone. <Way too much way too fast, and a bad
livestock combination on top of that.> Within two days, the anemone
died. <Unfortunately not surprising.>
Pulled it out and everything
seemed to be fine. The LFS told me everything should be fine with the
Bio-Spira and gave me another anemone, this time white. <Not a good sign
of health in the anemone.> This one died within days as well. <Again
not surprising.> Now after weeks of reading your website, I know I have
just killed two anemones for all the wrong reasons. <At least you used
it as a learning experience.> Not trusting the LFS anymore, I finally
got a test kit. <Good> I did a 25% water change and after that, my
readings were ammonia 0 Nitrites 2.0, Nitrates 20 and pH at 8.4. I have
been measuring the nitrite everyday for a week now with the reading at
2. Yesterday I did the all the testing again, ammonia 0, nitrites 2,
Nitrates 150 <Wow, a lot.> and pH 8.4. Today, the Nitrates have
risen to 5.0 or higher. The tank went through an algae cycle two weeks
ago but that cleared up right away. <Will probably return in a different
form at some point.> The fish all seem healthy, they eat great and swim
normally. <Good> With the parameters as I describe, should I do water
changes, and if so, how much and how often? <Yes and often until the
nitrite reading goes to 0, probably 10% every other day.> I know the
tank still needs to cycle but I do not want to lose the fish because
I didn't act quickly enough. <Will slow down the process but the
alternative is losing the fish.> I would like to eventually add some
mushrooms and some "easy" to keep corals. <Ok, but not with an
anemone.>
Another question I have is about micro-bubbles. I use
Prime to condition the water. I have read that this may cause the
bubbles but it should clear up within a couple of weeks. <Will effect
water's surface tension.> I have had these bubbles since day 1 and
they have not reduced and they are being produced by the skimmer and the
bio-wheel. I have well water which has been tested for and does not
have chlorine or ammonia. Do I need to use the Prime? <Not really.>
With my skimmer, I can adjust it so I get the correct foam in
the chamber but when I do, the collection cup fills up with
water. I know that this will happen until the skimmer "breaks in" but
in the mean time, do I let it fill up the collection cup with water or
do I turn it down so that doesn't happen. <I would probably turn it
down just so I don't accidentally flood the house, but really not a big
deal either way.> Also, if I do let it fill the collection cup, can I
just dump the water back in the tank do I throw it out and add
new? <Pitch it and refill.>
With my well water, I have an in-well
aeration system to condition the water. I believe I have pure water in
my house except for the fact that it is hard water. I do not want to
add a RO/DI unit unless I have to. <I'm a big fan of these and think
most all tanks can benefit from, but time will tell if you "really" need
one.> Is it possible to have my house water tested and if so, what do
I test for that I should be concerned about for my aquarium? <Beyond
Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and phosphate total dissolved solids (TDS) is
a general indication of how much "stuff" is in the water.>
Finally,
I want to set up a Rubbermaid container to store premixed water. Do I
need a powerhead and an aerator or just one or the other? <Either or,
both are not needed.>
Thanks for all your help and info.
Mike
<A quick comment on your stocking if I may, 3 clowns will run into
problems in the future most likely, really should only be kept in pairs
in this sized tank. Also a flame angle needs a much larger tank, likes
to have swimming room. But keep on reading and learning and you will be
fine.>
<Chris> Cycling Questions - 02/09/2007
Hi,
<Hello there>
I just setup a new 32 gallon tank with built in
sump/skimmer and fuge. I added 26 pounds of Bali live rock that I
picked up at a local store, and have about a 3-4 inch deep sand
bed. Fuge has maybe 4 - 5 inches and only has mangroves as of now (left
over from old setup - have some Chaetomorpha coming hopefully
tomorrow). I have the displays 165 Watt power compacts running 12 hours
a day... Since I couldn't find Bio-Spira locally I purchased Nitromax
marine which "supposedly" instantly cycles the tank (which I don't
believe). I have added it ever 2 days as the bottles have instructed.
Last Friday I added some food to see if I could get an ammonia reading,
and sure enough when I did a water test on Sunday (2 days later - missed
Saturday), I had ph 8.0, nitrite 0, nitrate 10, ammonia .25, SG 1.025 On
Monday and Tuesday I also did water tests, and now the readings are pH
8.3, nitrite 0, nitrate 5, ammonia 0. SG 1.025. Should I try to add
more food to feed the bacteria?
<Mmm, I'd add a smidgen more... a
pinch... and test the next day...>
Should I stop using Nitromax?
<I'd use it if you still had some...>
At this point how long do you
think until I introduce a fish to the tank (I have 4 that are dying to
get into a real aquarium - sadly they are all that's left from my old
setup - but that's a long story that I sent an email to the crew about a
few weeks ago :) )
<I'd move them now>
I am now seeing some
algae growth on the LR now
<Ah, another good sign>
- and still I
am seeing feather duster worms, unknown worms, amphipods, some white
anemone with a bright green center lodged in a hole in the live rock,
etc. Thanks for your help.
<Oh! The mangroves and the rest of
the existing non-fish material very likely brought enough nitrification
along with them... BobF> First Marine Tank/Cycling
Protocol/Patience - 01/28/07
Hi,
<<Hi Joanne x...hmm...any
relation to Jason X? [grin] Sorry…couldn’t resist>>
I have spoken
to Tom before regarding my existing FW tank.
<<And excellent advice
received, I'm sure>>
I have been given another 180-litre tank and
after some research and a lot of time reading on your site I have
decided I would like to convert it to a marine tank.
<<Neat!>>
I
have priced up the equipment I need which is decidedly cheaper than a
marine tank <<...?>>, and understand what order I need to do things in
to cycle the tank etc, (mostly learned here!).
<<Excellent!>>
My
question is that I have been told that after the tank has been cycled,
before I can add any fish, that I have to take the tank right down,
<<Huh?>>
replace all the water and rinse the filters,
<<What?>>
is this correct?
<<Not in my opinion>>
I may be wrong, but to me
this goes against everything I have done or learned and would defeat the
object of cycling?
<<Possibly, yes>>
I would appreciate your
advice.
<<Well Joanne, I would not do what you have just
described. After the tank cycles, I would merely do a large "partial"
water change (say 30-percent) and clean/replace any "mechanical" filter
media>>
Many thanks in advance.
Joanne x
<<A pleasure to
assist Joanne. And let me leave you with this thought... Once the tank
is cycled, consider letting it go fishless for some months (6-12 if you
can stand it!). This allows much micro-/macro-fauna to
proliferate/establish sustainable colonies in the absence of piscine
predators. Honestly, you will find the life that emerges/develops from
the live rock, in the absence of fishes, to be every bit as fascinating
to observe. Cheers, Eric Russell>>
Re: First Marine
Tank/Cycling Protocol/Patience - 02/03/07
Hi all,
<<Hello
Joanne>>
I have attached my earlier question below, I hope you can
be of assistance again.
<<I will try...Eric here with you again>>
I just wanted to let you know that all your advice is greatly
appreciated and not taken for granted.
<<I hope it proves useful to
you>>
I now have the tank set up with an additional external filter
to supplement the internal one, a protein skimmer and 20kgs of cured
live rock. So far I am really happy with how things are going and I
have been fortunate that my local aquatics store owner is more
interested in making sure my tank is successful than selling me items I
don’t need!
<<Ahh...excellent!>>
I wanted advice on some things
I have seen swimming round in the tank today, I have managed to catch
hold of one of them and they appear to be tiny shrimp, the store owner
gave me some of his own
mature live rock to kick start the tank and
I am assuming they hitched a ride on this as he has skunk(?) shrimp in
his tank.
<<Mmm, hitchhikers yes...but though not impossible, I
doubt these are Lysmata amboinensis. I think it is much more likely
what you have discovered is a "Mysid shrimp." These are small
shrimp-like crustaceans found in most any marine system in varying
densities based on habitat/refuge and presence/density of
predators. It's a beneficial detritivore as well as a tasty and
nutritious treat for many larger tank inhabitants>>
Will they be
okay whilst the tank is cycling or am I likely to lose them all?
<<Populations tend to wax and wane...even if they seemingly disappear,
they will likely turn up again>>
Also, I was planning to add a few
hermit crabs in the next few week as clean up crew, but I have been
reading a lot about them here this morning and am now in two minds as to
whether they will be a useful addition to my tank, especially as I
wasn't aware they needed a way to climb up for air and to dry out.
<<Huh? Not the aquatic marine species utilized/sold in the hobby...you
must have confused these with "land" hermits which are also sold/kept as
"pets." The popular marine hobby species (red-leg, blue-leg, etc.) are
totally aquatic. And it's up to you to decide but, do be aware these
crabs are very opportunistic omnivores than can scour much/most of the
emergent life from your live rock...yet still...very popular with many
hobbyists>>
Thanks again,
Joanne
<<Happy to share. EricR>>
Questions from a SW beginner - PART 2 1/2/07
Sorry to
bother again, but just wanted to clear something up.
<Not a bother -
no problem!>
In my last message you said to add some cocktail shrimp
or fish food to help the nitrate and ammonia levels spike. Will this
hurt the 3 snails I have living on the live rock in the tank?
<Good
point - I should have been more clear. Since you have the snails
already in the tank, I'd stick with the fish food method...just a little
pinch per day. And, since you already have livestock in the tank,
cycling is a bit more challenging - while you do need to see a spike in
the levels, as mentioned before, it's a bit of a catch-22, because
livestock, obviously, don't like toxins. Do measure the levels at least
once per day, and do water changes as needed to bring the levels
down. While you'll be prolonging the cycle, you'll be saving the lives
of your snails. This is precisely why I prefer not to use livestock to
cycle, as it makes things more complicated. In any case, it can be
done, with careful vigilance on your part.
Good luck, and Happy New
Year! Jorie>
Thank you for you time.
Ryan I have got
major problems! Instant Cycle a Tank With Bio-Spira -
12/12/06
Thank God for your website!!
<We aim to please!>
The LFS around here are beyond sad! Anyway, here are my
problems... please help! In taking a marine bio course at college we
had to start up a 30 gal saltwater tank and maintain it for 4 months. It
contained 3 fish (clown, damsel, fire), 1 banded coral shrimp, 2 algae
conchs and other mollusks and a crab. However, at the end of the
semester we were expected to take them home. I had 2 weeks to cycle a 55
gal tank. I used some of the water and substrate from the school tank
and a chemical cycling product. To top it off before bringing them home
the fish got ich ( I suspect from the water the crab came with). Of
course now the ammonia and nitrate levels are very high. I've been
careful to keep the temp at a steady 80 and the water aerated. I did a
10 gal water change yesterday and the levels are still high. Should I
put in new carbon filters? Help!
<Whatever "chemical
cycling product" you used, if it wasn't Bio-Spira (I'm assuming it's
not, since you are having cycling problems), it will only hinder the
cycling process. Do a huge water change (80%) & add Bio-Spira to the
filter. Your cycling worries will be over! In 2 weeks, you could have
also done a fishless cycle with ammonia. ~Pufferpunk>
Thank you,
Jennifer B, Florida Re: Bio-Spira 12/14/06
Thanks for the
super fast response! I used Cycle by Nutrafin and followed directions
for marine use. OK, so I'll get Bio-Spira, do an 80% water change and
all fish and inverts will be ok?
<Yes, you need to remove the toxins
in there. Just be sure the SG, pH & temp are the same as the tank
water.>
Should I also put in new carbon filters?
<Wouldn't hurt>
I have a Skilter Filter 400. Also, the protein
skimmer isn't getting any foam yet, I'm assuming that is normal since
the tank is so new.
<Get yourself a decent
skimmer. Skilters are junk! In addition, that pad will collect
nitrates on it.>
Thanks Pufferpunk!
<You're very welcome! ~PP>
"Seeding" new filter media 11/26/07
Hi crew,
<Hi Dave, Mich here.>
I have a small tank with one of those Whisper
filters that hangs inside the tank, where the filter media is just a
flat floss envelope with some carbon inside. It's getting time to
change the floss envelope-- got all shredded from picking algae out of
it. I've got the new filter pack sitting in the side of the tank to
"seed" with beneficial bacteria before I remove the old filter
pack. How long will the new filter pack take to accumulate enough
bacterial growth to avoid problems when I remove the old one? <I'd give
it a couple of days if you can.>
Thanks,
-Dave Serpent
Star Woes/System Cycling - 11/13/06
OK, in the process of moving
a 150gal from CT to RI. (yeah....fun)
<<Mmm, indeed>>
So I got a
new 150gal, made all the salt water and let it clear up for a few
days. Then, I added about 2" of live sand and let that clear up for a
day. Then, added about 40lbs of live rock to get it started. Water was
clear, tested OK, so I started the move. First thing, about 100lbs of
live rock from the old tank. All was peachy. Next day, another 50lbs
of rock from the old tank, and some animals....(maroon clown, marine
catfish, pajama cardinal, domino, coral banded shrimp, purple lobster, 2
huge serpent stars)
<<An "interesting" mix...do keep an eye on the
catfish and the lobster as they are/will be real threats to the other
tank inhabitants...and the domino will also turn out to be a real
"terror of the tank" as it grows/matures>>
2 days go by, all are
eating, all seems good. Next day, both serpent stars (actually, one is
a big green one with spiny legs. Looks like a cross between a serpent
and a brittle) are rapidly deteriorating.
<<Uh-oh>>
Actually
falling apart.
<<Ack!>>
What did I do wrong?
<<Hmm...my
guess would be the tank is experiencing an ammonia spike/nitrogen cycle
as a result of the move. Makes sense to me that the Ophiuroids would be
the first affected>>
Everything else seems to be fine.
<<For the
moment, maybe>>
Do I move the rest of the animals?
<<I
would. And test the new setup (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate), leaving it to
complete the nitrogen cycle if need be. It is very likely moving of the
old rock caused some die-off within, this, along with the fact you added
some new rock...I'm not surprised the bacteria couldn't keep up>>
Please help.
<<Hope I have>>
Thanks in advance, you guys are
very wise.
<<Kind words, thank you...we do our best>>
-Pat
<<Regards, EricR>> UV sterilizer 11/6/06
Hello!
<Hi>
I just started a new 75G saltwater aquarium from scratch. Is that o.k.
if I run my UV sterilizer while the water is cycling? Thank you very
much for your time !
Sonny.
<Should be fine, may slow down the
process a little, but no big deal.>
<Chris>
Cannot cycle new tank with lionfish; recommend using "fishless" method
instead 11/6/06
Hello all,
<Well hello...>
A
quick question (this time I promise?).
<OK, no problem...>
I
have been curing liverock for two weeks and it was partially cured
before. Once I am getting a zero reading on ammonia I will place into
my new 200gallon setup and aquascape.
<Good plan.>
Bob Fenner's
book recommends waiting 2-4 weeks before adding critters, but also
mentions that some people use damsels to in the 2-4 initial stage.
<Absolutely true; I personally think that using live fish to cycle a
tank is cruel, however, and use only fish food, or a piece of cocktail
shrimp. It achieves the same end result and spares the fish any
"unpleasantries"...>
Is it safe to add my Volitans Lionfish during
this 2-4 week cycle stage? Brand new sand, cured rock, water, etc.
<Absolutely not. The lionfish are too delicate. Again, though, in my
humble opinion, there's no reason to use any live creatures to cycle a
tank...do a search on "fishless cycle" on the 'net and you'll find lots
of alternative methods that work just as well and don't harm any
fish...>
Thanks,
<You're welcome.>
Dave
<Jorie>
Re: Cannot cycle new tank with lionfish; recommend using "fishless"
method instead 5/8/06
Thanks for the response.
<You're welcome.>
I thought Lionfish were like the 2nd hardiest fish
offered in aquarium trade?
<I've never heard this "opinion";
generally, Volitans lionfish do fine in a stable, well-established tank,
but I've never heard them to be particularly hardy with respect to be
able to withstand ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes necessary for
cycling purposes...>
Anyhow... So I will introduce ONLY cured
liverock and will perhaps take some substrate and some of the water from
my established fish/invert system to 'seed' my new tank?
<Good plan;
will likely speed the cycle a bit.>
Maybe even use some of the
liverock in my Fish/Invert sump and use in my new sump for this new
system?
<Also good.>
Would you expect that I'd still have
ammonia/nitrate spikes in the two to four week period after?
<In a
200 gal. tank, I would expect so, yes...>
Should I be introducing my
lionfish then at two weeks? Four weeks? Or simply when I haven't
detected any signs of ammonia or nitrate?
<I always like to err on
the side of caution, since I've done my share of "pushing the envelope",
sometimes without good results; I would suggest not introducing any fish
before the 2 week minimum period, and personally would side closer to 4
weeks, but in any event, not before the cycle has completed. In other
words, not before the 2-4 week period, but possibly longer, depending on
the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate readings in your tank.>
Dave
<Good luck. In my experience, when cycling with live rock, at least
you'll likely have neat "critters" (hitchhikers) to look at for the
cycling period, as opposed to freshwater cycling, where you are
literally staring at water for a month or so! Enjoy your tank, Jorie>
Complete cycle & nitrate problems 10/26/06
Hi,
<And to
you>
I am having a cycle & nitrate problem; any thoughts would be
appreciated.
Tank - 29 Gallon (35 lbs of live rock in tank)
Sump
filter - with 18 pounds of live rock (no bio-balls)
60 pounds of
live sand and 20 lbs of crushed coral
<Not much room for water!>
Protein skimmer - rated up to 100 gallon tank
<Mmm... your mileage
may vary...>
Return pump 500 gallon/hour
Sweeping power head for
additional water movement
135 watt PC lighting
Tank startup date
- August 31, 2006
Ammonia - Somewhere between 0 and .25 (in between
color for 0 and .25)
PH - 8.2
Temp: 78
Nitrates - .05 were
previously at 0.2
Nitrates - have been high since the tank was
started. Over 50 ppm first week and have been over 50 ppm ever since.
With one test (one that will give high range results) kit I'm getting
readings of 100 to 200 ppm.
<Yeeikes! Some appreciable die-off...>
Water changes seem to have very little effect on the nitrate levels, may
bring the level down slightly, but is usually back up within 24 hours.
No dead livestock in tank - 2 fish one clown, one damsel, three hermit
crabs, six snails, and a sally light foot - eat and look fine (but I do
not overfeed - food is consumed within 15 seconds).
Nitrate levels
at least 50ppm (to the top range of most kits). I have had the LFS run
the same tests with their test kits - nitrates over 50ppm (that was the
top range on their kits).
Overflow and sump filters cleaned
regularly.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jackie
<Mmmm, is your sump/refugium illuminated? Do you grow
macroalgae there? I would. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
and the linked files
above. Bob Fenner>
New Tank/Nitrogen Cycle/LFS Advice? –
10/16/06
Hey all, I’m new to the hobby and have read a lot off
your site and I want to thank you first for all the advice, it helped me
a lot!
<<Glad you found it useful>>
First off, my system is a 75
gallon reef. It’s been up and running only for about 2 weeks now, and I
have been monitoring the water daily. I have a Fluval 405, AquaC Remora
Pro, 3 power heads, and power compact lighting set on a timer. My pH
was not staying constant at all, so I went to the LFS to ask them about
it. They explained all about alkalinity and how if it’s too low it will
affect the pH buffer. So I got some Super Buffer dKH and pH, so I’ve
been using that for the past 2 days according to the directions.
<<Is the LFS aware this is new tank in the beginning stages of its
nitrogen cycle? If they are then shame on them for starting you down
this path>>
Testing everything now, the dKH is very high, pH is
good, and calcium is good (I’ve been adding a calcium buffer as well).
<<Not necessary, or even desired at this stage, and in my opinion. You
have nothing in the tank to merit the addition of calcium (nothing using
it up). Did you check alkalinity/calcium BEFORE dosing the
additives? Likely your pH swings are due to the elevated levels of
organics/acids from dead/dying organisms on and in the live rock>>
Temp is 78.6, pH is 8.3, dKH is 20, ammonia is 1.0, nitrite is .25,
nitrate is 10, and calcium is 430.
<Note the high readings of the
nitrogenous compounds...this tank is cycling and best left alone. It is
pointless to be “fiddling” with the water chemistry at this stage>>
I was just wondering if it’s ok that the dKH is so high?
<<Between
this and the high calcium level you are running the risk of
precipitating the all the earth elements out of solution and creating a
real mess of your tank>>
The pH is stable now, so I don’t know what
would cause dKH to be so high,
<<Um...the additives you are pouring
in to the tank>>
and if that is dangerous/deadly to any creatures in
the tank?
<<No so much in itself, but you’re creating a dangerous
situation as already explained>>
There is nothing in there besides
live rock right now. So any advice for me?
<<Yes...STOP DOSING THIS
TANK. Perform a 50% water change to reestablish balance and let the
tank finish cycling/curing the live rock you have added. From this
point, test for the “need” of the additives before dosing. Unless you
stock this tank with animals with high calcium requirements you will
likely find that frequent partial water changes will provide all the
earth elements your tank needs. I also suggest you read (re-read) our
FAQs and articles on establishing new tanks and the nitrogen cycle>>
Thanks a lot for the help in advance,
Greg
<<Happy to share,
EricR>> I shot the sheriff, no, I killed a damsel?
9/26/06
Wow, what did I do?
<Is this that blondie pop singer
writing me again? My wife doesn't approve>
Ok, so I've been keeping
a fish/invert tank for 4yrs and am setting up another predator tank. My
cycling fish that will fit in well, is (was) a jeweled damsel.
<Not
a good idea... am a fan of fish-less cycling>
He was about 2.5"
long. Anyhow, I have some scattered liverock in a 20gallon quarantine
tank to which he has been residing. The tank has been running for
months and previously housed my Royal Dottyback for 2 months. I do
water changes about 30% twice a month and the new water is directly from
what is soon to become my reef tank.
I have no new liverock in my
quarantine.
My pH 8.2
No sign of nitrates, nitrites, ammonia.
Salinity holds steady at around 1.024 (1.0024?)
<The former>
and
the water temp steady at about 26oc.
The damsel was aggressively
feeding up until two days ago. He was dead and stuck to the powerhead
(a small MaxiJet 900) yesterday. The day before he was alive and hiding
in a small cave of the liverock. The day before, he was hanging out at
the top of the water level waiting for me to feed him... to which he
aggressively gobbled everything down.
I've been feeding a mixture of
flake, krill, shrimp, etc. Alternating every few days. He looked
pretty healthy. There's nothing else in the tank with him and there's
no marks on his body. He lasted 4 weeks and his behaviour change
leading up to his death was over the course of maybe 30 hours. I did an
immediate water test when I discovered him.
The only thing I can
remotely even think of is that over the past 10 days, a small Cyano
colony on my live rock turned from a fuzzy purple to a dark green/grey.
<Mmm, this could "do it">
It looked kinda sickly. Water parameters
stayed excellent.
Any thoughts?
<Yes. Hopefully this fish hasn't
infested the system with parasites. BobF>
Regards,
Dave Brynlund
<Cycling New Tank> 9/4/06
Hi,
<Hello Adam>
I
have had my tank set up for about 4-5 weeks, for some reason I <I> have
0 ppm ammonia levels but my nitrate is at 7.5ppm and my nitrite is
at 0.50ppm, I have a few damsels in the tank and a couple pieces of
coral, Are these levels acceptable,<?> I <I> no <know> 0 ppm for
everything is the best but should I <I> be worried? I do 5% water change
once a week, is it strange that there is no ammonia but there is
nitrate/nitrite? Any suggestions?
p.s.
I no <know> I <I> added
my fish a little early but LFS said water levels were fine.
<Not
uncommon to have a nitrite reading with no ammonia level present as this
is the second stage in the denitrification process. As far as nitrate,
very unlikely you will ever get a 0 reading.>
Regards
<Adam, in
future queries, please do a spelling/grammar check. We do not have the
time to correct/edit queries before posting. Thank you,
James
(Salty Dog)>
Adam Filtration/Tank Cycling/Refugium
Addition - 09/02/06
Hi crew,
<<Ronde>>
I am ~4wks into
my SW experience and for the most part am really enjoying it. WWM has
been a great tool for me, but there isn't enough time in a day to read
the whole site (I am trying).
<<Not necessary to read in a
day...take two <grin> >>
As I stated pretty much everything is alive
with the exception of a few snails (1 or 2 margaritas and a Nassarius or
2 (sp) <<Nassarius>>) and 1 of the 3 green Chromis I purchased.
<<Mmm...this tank is likely too "new" for livestock yet>>
That
leaves 6 margarita snails, some blue legged hermits, some Turbos (not
sure which kind) and some Nassarius snails. I just purchased an AquaPod
12 for use as a QT for any new pets.
<<Excellent...do be sure to
read our FAQs on quarantine>>
Now for the questions. 1. I have a
46g bowfront glass tank with 60# of CaribSea Arag-Alive Bahama oolite,
30# of live rock, a Penguin 350 bio-wheel, a Penguin 200 BioWheel,
a Maxijet 900 powerhead, a SeaClone 100 (I know it is a bad choice and
am looking to get a Remora or Remora pro; do you have any suggestions on
which would be more appropriate?)
<<The AquaC Remora will serve
fine...and you might want to consider removal of the bio-wheel filters
unless this will be a FOWLR>>
There is also a 150w heater in there
too. Will this setup support soft coral or do I need to change some of
the setup?
<<You don't state your lighting, but "generically
speaking, yes. Though you need to research the "specific needs" of the
species you plan to acquire>>
My temp runs from an occasional low of
79 but stays in the 80 to low 81's.
<<This is fine>>
I have a
36" Current USA Nova Extreme set on timers with actinics coming on for
8 hours and the 10000k on for 6 sandwiched in between the actinics and
the lunars on after the actinics turn off at night.
<<You should
shoot for a more natural (12-13 hour) photo-period>>
I had the
lights on longer but had a diatom bloom that the snails have since taken
care of.
<<Part of the natural algae succession of a new/cycling
tank>>
My last water tests gave me a result of spec. gravity 1.022,
<<This needs to be NSW levels (1.025/1.026)>>
pH 8.4, ammonia 0ppm,
nitrite <0.25ppm (color in between 0 and 0.25ppm on Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals saltwater master liquid test kit) and nitrate 10ppm
(usually around 20ppm steady).
<<This 4-week old tank is still
cycling...please don't add further livestock until this is finished>>
Fish are fed 2 times per week 1/2 cube of frozen Mysis which takes about
6-min to eat.
<<Your fish should be fed daily my friend>>
Also I
add Purple-Up a few times a week (I need to buy a calcium test kit) and
use Seachem Reef Buffer once per week.
<<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/suppleme.htm>>
Would a refugium eliminate the need for one or both of the Penguin
filters?
<<Your live rock will eliminate the need for these...but
addition of a refugium is always beneficial>>
Due to space
restrictions it would probably need to be HOB style. On an All-Glass
brand tank would the extra weight be a concern?
<<No>>
Fish
seem to be happy and the snails seem to be happy except for the fact
that a few hermit crabs have displaced them from their shells (I need
to buy some bigger shells).
<<A common issue...and one more reason
I don't keep hermit crabs>>
I don't want to be a victim of paralysis
by analysis but need to know if I am on the right track.
<<Keep
reading...you'll get there>>
Sorry for the length but thanks for the
help.
<<No worries my friend...but please do use proper
capitalization on future exchanges>>
Ronde B.
<<EricR>>
New Marine Setup/Cloudy Water - 08/26/06
Dear Crew, first of all
I think you're website is amazing.
<<Thank You>>
Thanks for
providing such a great resource of information.
<<A collective
effort>>
I have a very strange problem, and I'm hoping one of you
"ichthi-geniuses" can help me to find a solution.
<<Hee! If you're
looking for "genius" I'll have to refer you to Bob...else I'm happy to
help as I can>> <Mmm, what's that line from the McKenzie bro.s "Strange
Brew" movie? "I'm just an employeeee." RMF>
I have a new marine
setup: 120 gallon Tenecor acrylic aquarium, 120 lbs. of live rock, 4x96
watt power compact lighting (2 daylight and 2 actinic bulbs), 3-inch bed
of Aragamax sand, wet/dry filter with an Iwaki inline pump, AquaC EV-180
protein skimmer running from a MagDrive 7 pump. I had two PowerSweep
228's running in the tank for additional water flow, but have removed
these as they were increasing the temperature above 82 degrees.
<<How far "above"? Temperatures of 83-84 degrees are acceptable and
definitely no reason to remove/reduce water flow and the benefits
associated re. Placing a small fan to blow across the surface of the
water would also give you a couple degrees of evaporative cooling>>
I'm using Chemipure and those blue bonded filter pads.
<<Cleaning
the pads every few days I hope>>
The only livestock that I currently
have in the tank are 2-Green Chromis and 1-Yellowtail Damsel, which were
added after the tank had cycled. The fish are behaving normally and
eating. I'm trying to be patient and increase the bio load slowly.
<<A good approach>>
Ammonia and Nitrites are zero, and Nitrates are
at around 10 ppm.
<<Mmm, very strange for such a large tank with
such a light bio-load...I suspect your tank is NOT truly cycled>>
The pH and alkalinity are at "ideal" levels.
<<Numbers please...>>
My issue is due to a cloudiness of the water. Kind of like a milky
haziness that has lasted for almost two weeks.
<<Any link to the
addition of the substrate? Have you added any terrestrial
rocks/questionable ornaments?>>
Every evening when I return home
from work the water has turned cloudy. In the morning this haze is
considerably reduced only to regenerate throughout the day. I've read
through the FAQ's, and assumed that this was a bacterial bloom issue.
<<Is my guess as well>>
I have done 3 consecutive water changes over
the past week at about 30% at a time.
<<And yet your nitrates read
at 10ppm? Have you tested your source/make-up water. Whatever is
producing the nitrate may be feeding the bacteria bloom>>
The water
begins to clear after the changes, but then starts to become hazy
again. The temperature in the tank ranges from 79 degrees in the
morning to 81 degrees in the evening.
<<This temp range is fine>>
I have not been using the 2 300-watt heaters because the temperature
doesn't fall below 79, even though the ambient temp in the house stays
around 71 degrees. Should I employ the heaters to keep the temperature
at 81?
<<Mmm, nope...I would set these as the lower temperature
range of 79. A two-degree spread throughout the day is not a worry, and
the lower temperature at night when the lights are off will allow a
smidgen more oxygen in to the water>>
I know this is not a problem
with micro bubbles. My skimmer does release some micro bubbles
initially after the water changes but this stops after about an hour or
so. I've decided to keep the lights off today to see if this will help
to make the water clearer, but I certainly can't keep the lights off
indefinitely.
<<Honestly, I wouldn't even bother with this
approach...always more harm than good in my opinion>>
Beyond further
water changes I'm not sure what else to do at this point. Any advice
you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
<<Patience my friend... The phenomenon should clear on its own. You
can probably actually speed this up a bit by "stopping" the water
changes (especially if whatever is feeding the bloom is in your make-up
water) and letting the tank reach an equilibrium/cycle out whatever is
feeding the bloom. Don't stop feeding the fish, but do feed judiciously
(and turn those lights back on). And certainly continue to monitor
water quality...if things continue to deteriorate you should consider
removing the fish and allowing the tank to cycle fallow for a few more
weeks. Regards, EricR>> 08/25/2006 - Tank
Cycling Problems
Hi WWM crew!
<Hi there EricS here>
I
have been reviewing the information on your Web site which has helped me
figure out what I have done wrong clearing out a Cyanobacteria invasion
and what I needed to do right, but now I am stuck as to where I should
go next! So I am hoping to get some one on one guidance.
<Great
start. Always refer to the web site first! Thanks much!>
Here is the
history - about a year ago, we set up a 30 gallon salt water tank which
we enjoyed for about 6 months with no problems. We decided to upgrade
to a 55 gallon tank and for a couple of months had absolutely no
problems. The tank was set up with a Skilter Filter with a protein
skimmer (that we weren't using at the time) and a wheel power filter.
<My opinion on the Skilter is not a very efficient product for that size
of tank they may work merely OK for a small tank. But not for a
55. Please look at the AquaC Remora or CPR Backpack for a hang on
skimmer. The BioWheel is merely optional when you have live rock>
About 2 months into the 55 gallon tank, we began to lose fish -
including a clownfish, a royal Gramma, a yellow tang, and a couple of
cardinal fish (the first one and then one we got to replace). These
fish died at the rate of about 1 a day. We had water tested which came
back with normal results and the fish store said that we might have
introduced an infection that affected our fish, but not our
invertebrates (we had a couple of peppermint shrimp, a cleaner shrimp, a
brittle star fish, and a variety of snails and hermit crabs).
<What did they exactly test for? What test kits? Do get your own so
that you can do these tests on a regular basis yourself>
So we tried
again with some blue/green chromis (started with 5) that began to die
after a couple of days in the tank at the rate of one a day until we
were down to just one. After that one had survived for about a month,
we decided to add some more fish and added a royal Gramma, a tomato
clownfish, and a yellow and black fish that I can't remember the name.
Around that same time we started to get this invasion of a red algae
looking film that after some research I decided was Cyanobacteria. The
fish store suggested we add power heads to our tank and start using the
protein skimmer. We started the protein skimmer and added to 212
PowerSweep powerheads.
<More current is definitely a
good suggestion. Try to point the powerheads more toward the areas that
have the Cyano. I think you still need more current as this is a 4 foot
tank. I have a 75 gallon with 5 powerheads in it and a return so quite
a bit of flow :) You do not need that much but do add more and point
them as directed to help clear the Cyano. Do not use any medications. >
We really saw no difference in the tank accept that the fish appeared to
enjoy the current!!! Our red slime invasion continued to get
worse! Then death hit once again and we lost our royal Gramma, the
blue/green chromis, and the tomato clownfish. I took more water to the
fish store to get tested along with the a sample of the red slime. The
water tested fine and they agreed that the red slime is
Cyanobacteria. One thing I had learned was that we weren't doing
correctly is our water changes - we have not been vacuuming the gravel
at all, just collecting water off the top - so I think that the "junk"
we built up in the gravel may have caused many of our problems. So, the
fish store sold me a gravel vacuum and some "medicine" for the
Cyanobacteria. <Again no medicine. I believe in natural methods. Need
to find the main culprit. Cycling and lack of flow are most obvious. A
minimum of a nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia kit. I like Salifert. These
kits will allow you to watch the cycle.>
I have now learned that the
"medicine" is more like "poison" as within 12 hours of putting it in the
tank, we lost our yellow and black fish and our cleaner shrimp. We are
down to one peppermint shrimp, a brittle star fish, and two hermit
crabs.
So, what we have done now is a 20% water change using the
gravel vacuum, thoroughly cleaned all components of the tank, and
changed all the filter media. I also created a "sea storm" prior to
vacuuming by shaking every piece of live rock prior to removal so I
could clean under each piece. I must say, the tank looks beautiful this
morning!!!!
My questions to you are what do we do next? My thoughts
were that we may need to let the tank cycle again. Will it be possible
to add fish in the next couple of weeks if the water tests O.K.? If so,
what fish do you suggest we start out with this time? Do we need to go
back to the damsel fish for a while or can we start with some
others? Also, in the mean time, do we feed the brittle star fish at all
or can she find enough to eat in the tank? Our plan is to continue
water changes on a regular basis as we did in the past, only using the
gravel vacuum from here on out.
<What are you using for
substrate? Your next steps are to purchase your own test kits so you
know that the reagents are fresh and the test is of good quality. How
good is the water that you are using to mix with salt? What do you use
to test your salinity levels? Next fish could be the chromis
again. They are pretty hardy fish so do a couple more water
changes. Get your tests done by yourself. And then try the chromis I
think you will find better success with the flow pointed correctly to
rid your self of the Cyano problem.>
Thank you in advance for the
assistance with these problems. We enjoy our tank very much and don't
want to give up!
<Don't ever give up!! You will continue to learn
all the time. Buy some good books to start with and always try to read
online as much as you can.
Good Luck! EricS>
Kind regards
Leslie
Cycling a new tank 8/22/06
Hi guys & gals
<Hi>
My 100 gal reef tank complete with 200 lb of premium life rock
and 40 lb of life sand has been running for 2 weeks now. The rocks are
pretty much totally encrusted with brown algae. Nitrite and ammonia
levels are at or very close to 0 while nitrate is at 20 ppm. Since I
didn't check these levels every day I don't know if the tank has
cycled. I'm wondering how one determines if the tank is ready to add
fish or coral to. <When Ammonia and Nitrite consistently read zero, the
presence of nitrate indicate the cycle is in its final stages.> Also
how about a clean up crew, is this a good time to add one?
<Personally I like to wait at least a couple of weeks after the cycle is
completed before adding livestock. This gives the tank a little more
time to stabilize and the micro-organisms a change to take hold. If you
begin your 4-6 week QT period now with for first livestock the tank will
most likely be ready by the time the QT period is over.>
Thanks
again
<Sure>
<Chris> Tank Cycling and Pods
7/31/06
Hi Gang,
<Hi>
I'm cycling a brand new tank at
the moment and noticed some copepod activity already from the live rock.
The tank has been running for about a week now and is 475 gallons with
approximately 600 lbs of LR and 600 lbs of LS. I have a 130 gallon sump
with built in refugium. <Sounds very nice.> My water parameters are
currently: 1.023 SG, .25 Ammonia, .5 Nitrite, .05 Nitrates, PH 8.2, and
running at 80 degrees. <Normal for this stage.> Am I correct to assume
that copepods/amphipods are immune to the tank cycling effect (i.e.
nitrogen cycle?)? <Not immune, but pretty tough. It will slow their
population growth, but enough survive to populate the tank once the
conditions are more optimal.> I ask this because I plan to add copepod
cultures to the tank, and would like to give them a nice head start
before adding any fish. <Good idea.> My current intentions are to cycle
the tank for at least 4-6 weeks, before adding any fish. Do you think
it's ok to add the "pod" cultures now, or should I let the tank complete
its cycle? <Let it complete the cycle, and then add the pods. Give them
a couple weeks to "take hold" and you should be in good shape.> Any
help is appreciated...
Rao
<Chris>
Cycling a New Tank 6/30/06
Hello Everyone
<Hi>
Thanks
for all the help I appreciate it. <Sure> I spend many late nights
reading and taking notes from your site - I have learned a lot and
appreciate the help. <Good to hear>
I set my 55 gal up on June 8
with 20lbs of Caribbean Uncured Rock from E- Tropicals.
We planning
on FOWLR & Inverts
I just cleaned the rock and put in my tank, using
the rock to cycle my tank. <Good>
I tested my water parameters every
day : Ammonia - Nitrite - Nitrate - Specific Gravity - PH - Temp ...
My water never smelled nasty, never turned an ugly color, ammonia never
got over 1.0 - nitrite never got over 2.0 - nitrate never got over 20. I
know that all tanks are different and cycle differently. <Yep>
Readings now are:
ph 8.2
Specific Gravity 1.023
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
Temp 78
Have not done calcium -
alkalinity - iron - phosphate test yet.
<May want to test for
calcium, phosphate and alkalinity, I've never done an iron test for salt
water.>
LFS is next to none, so all I have is ya'll for advice,
which I appreciate and find helpful.
I have no brown nor green or
any color algae. Some mention having the lil brown algae (Diatom?) when
they get done cycling. <Can happen, but not a true indicator of the tank
being cycled.>
Could my tank of cycled? <Seems to be.> If so what
per cent of water change needs to be done? Do I need to wait a week to
order my inverts? <Start with 10%-20% weekly or bi-weekly water
changes. As far as the inverts go, hardy corals should be ok to order
now. Just stay away from the more fragile corals and anemones.>
My
live rock has something that looks like cake icing on it - could it be
die off? <Could be, might be a sponge or calcareous algae as well.> It
will not brush off with a toothbrush (soft) but I do get some brown
color die off. I read about the hitchhikers others have on their live
rock and I have none yet ..... Guess I need to be more patient which is
getting hard to do. <They are in there, just give them a little
time. Check at night, most tend to be more active then.>
It is hard
to take a picture right now.
I have :
2 Aqua Tech Power Heads
(170 gph each)
Sea Clone Skimmer ( Never has skimmed anything yet-
maybe nothing to skim?) I know - I have read about the Sea Clone but
was late in canceling order and fiancée already had it up and going when
I got home. Grrrr........ <Check some of the bigger BBs for
modifications that may help get more out of this skimmer.>
Millennium 3000 Power Filter
Marineland 170 Bio Wheel
<Make sure
to clean out these often, can lead to excess nitrates. If you are able
to add another 20-30lbs of LR I would ditch them completely.>
18
inch 15w Full Spectrum Aqua Ray bulbs
Anything else?
Any ideas
if I cycled?
Thank You
Kathleen
<Looks like your tank is
ready to go. Fire up the QT and get rolling. Just remember, stock
slowly and let the system catch up to any changes in bioload.>
<Chris>
SW Cycling 6/20/06
Hi Crew,
< Hello Samuel! >
Would
it be possible to successfully start a salt water tank without cycling
it if you just put in the salt water and some mushrooms and do not add
anything that would generate ammonia.
< Yes, you can cycle a tank
easily with live rock and sand. Most of the people I help use this
method to cycle the tank. This way there is no risk to any fish or
inverts. >
And maybe some bio-Spira to take care of ammonia
generated by the mushrooms.
< Bio-Spira is not necessary at all when
you are using live rock and sand. If you are already using cured live
rock and sand from an established tank, there should be no perceivable
cycle. >
< RichardB > BioSpira.... 6/6/6
Hello there,
<<Hello.>>
I'm setting up a 50 gallon tank and am
considering using Bio-Spira to cycle the tank.
<<A good choice.>>
I've heard that directly after the input of Bio-Spira, one could
immediately add fish livestock (in my case, I'm looking to add a total
of 4 fantails, one at a time, once readings show the ammonia and nitrite
levels are 0 per each addition). Is it a must that you should have fish
directly after putting in bio-Spira?
<<Yes, otherwise the bacteria
will die with no ammonia to eat. Alternatively, I suppose one could add
ammonia after the introduction of the Bio-Spira.>>
My reasoning is
that the nitrifying bacteria would need ammonia to kick start the
cycling, but with no fish, the beneficial bacteria would eventually die
correct?
<<Yes.>>
Therefore, there will not be any
ammonia/nitrite readings with just only bio-Spira correct?
<<I’m not
quite sure what you mean. Bio-Spira does not contain ammonia or
nitrites, it contains live bacteria.>>
Ammo-lock shouldn't be used
because it would kill off the beneficial bacterial colony correct?
<<It will not kill them outright, but will starve the bacteria,
rendering the product useless.>>
What BEST product would you
recommend to rid the chloramines and chlorine in the tap water?
<<I
use Prime, by Seachem.>>
I have the bio-Spira on order (none of my
local fish stores even carry this bad boy, not even the mom and pop
shops! They all only have Hagen’s cycle and I know there is emphasis
that it does not work).
<<It does not.>>
I'm guessing the
instructions will tell how and where to add it, but I just want to get
an idea as to where you would recommend adding it?
<<To your filter
media.>>
I've heard some adding it directly to the aquarium water,
some to the filter media/bio-wheels? Any advantages to
either? Recommendation?
<<See above.>>
Water changes during the
addition of bio-Spira are okay as long as I do not vacuum the gravel
correct?
<<Wait 48 hours before doing water changes.>>
I know
these questions seem common-sensical (is that a word? lol) but I would
like to get everything right in the first try.
Any help would be
great.
John
<<Good luck. Lisa.>>
Would Chaetomorpha help during tank cycling ? 5/29/06
Ohio Gozaimasu Crew !
<And good morrow to you>
I have been
thinking(<==always dangerous)
<Less than always feeling>
about
how to bolster the cycle process in my AquaPod 24 tank. My 'cured' LFS
Fiji live rock went in last night after spending ten minutes each in a
super-salinated (1.050) bucket followed by a distilled water
soak. Vigorous swishing and scrubbing left both buckets so nasty that
half way through the 22 pound box I stopped and replaced the
water. Some of the obviously dead, decaying soft matter left me really
appreciating the heavy neoprene gloves I was wearing while I scrubbed it
off. Right now the LR is simply sitting on top of the DSB and
a PVC
frame. Aquascaping for esthetics will wait till the tank is properly
cycled. Having gotten all the LR into the tank I made sure that the
heater, powerhead and skimmer were all working properly and went to bed.
This morning I tested the tank's water parameters and found that
'shocking' changes had occurred overnight:
Ammonia 0.2 (was 0)
Nitrate 35 ppm (was 0)
Nitrite 0.3 ppm (was 0)
Phosphate 0.1
(was 0)
pH 8.3 (unchanged)
Alkalinity 5.5 (unchanged)
Temperature 78 (unchanged)
Salinity 1.025 (unchanged)
Skimmer
cup empty
<All about right thus far...>
Retesting late this
afternoon the numbers were essentially unchanged.
<The alkalinity
and pH will drop soon... Nitrogenous compounds increase...>
After
spending the last 2 1/2 (very pleasurable) hours Googling my way around
WWM you can imagine my relief to be reassured that these
'instantaneous' changes in water chemistry are completely normal as a
new tank begins the cycling process.
<Yep>
20 gallons of
buffered and aerated water with a SpGr of 1.025 are at the ready while I
monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels like a hawk. Any readings above
0.8 ppm on either will trigger a change of 50% of the water, followed
by re-testing twelve hours later.
<Very good>
Then, while
fussing with the airstones and powerhead trying to ensure even water
flow, an inspiration struck. I currently have the tank lights off
because I subscribe to Anthony's advice that leaving them off will
minimize the growth of nuisance algae during the curing process.
<Some are of this opinion... I am generally not>
Two of my
synapses shorted out and I thought "Nitrogen + Phosphate can be
controlled using a macro algae like Chaetomorpha (which I was planning
on adding anyway)". If I were to add a 5 inch clump of Chaetomorpha (sp)
available for less than ten bucks at the LFS, and then started a 10 hour
light cycle, would that help or hinder the curing process ?
<Maybe... it might "just die" or be overwhelmed by chemical changes,
out-poisoned-competed by BGA et al.>
Thumbing through my college
Botany book it appears that these compounds which are toxic to the
Kingdom Animalia would be ideal 'munchies' for a member of Kingdom
Plantae.
<Many, not all>
Or so my 'reasoning' goes. Any
thoughts/observations ? I certainly don't want to interfere with the
establishment of viable cultures of Nitrogen-fixing bacteria but would
really like to help ensure that the toxicity of the tank doesn't
threaten the viability of the desirable organisms currently tenaciously
clinging to life deep within the crevices of the live rock. And, maybe,
save a few bucks in salt mix and buffering compound.
<Mmm, well...
the most "trouble free" process involves darkened curing conditions,
time going by... but all can be expedited, much life spared by
monitoring, doing the water changes you mention... Worth trying the
Chaetomorpha though>
Sayonara, and thanks once again for being
willing to do all the 'donkey work' involved in keeping up such a great
site !
John
<Eeee haugh! Bob Fenner>
New Tank
Cycle`5/25/06
Dear Sir,
<Hi, and don't forget our lady
members too>
First off let me say that you have the most informative
site on the internet, bar none!!! <Thanks> Here is my situation... I
have now been running a 200 gallon reef tank for 2 1/2 weeks. The
equipment is as follows: 2x1850 gph pumps, Euro-reef 8-3 skimmer,
Korallin Reactor, 85 gallon sump, 3x250 MH's and 300 lbs of live rock.
My current tests are: Ammonia 0 (for last week), Nitrite .05 (Salifert)
and 0 (with Fast test), Nitrate is 25ppm (down from 75ppm a week
ago!!!), KH 9.6 and, PH 8.2 and Calc at 320 (up from 230 a week ago).
Sorry for the long intro, I just want you to have a good idea at where I
am. Question one is, do you think that I am cycled? <No, not until
nitrites are at o> I have done only one 40 gallon water change a day
ago and have added some snails and hermits while closely monitoring my
levels. And the second question is a two part one: How long should I
wait to introduce some soft corals that already are in another tank and
how long shall I wait before I introduce a Yellow Tang and Clown Fish
(already established in other tank for 6 months). I am considering doing
another water change soon (40 gallons) to lower my nitrates to an
acceptable level before I introduce anything else.
<Wait until
Nitrites are at 0, can take upwards of a month.>
Thank you so much
for your help,
<Anytime>
Matt
<Chris>
New Tank Cycle 5/25/06 Part II
Dear Sir and Ma'am,
<Hi
there>
<Only after both ammonia and nitrites are at 0>
I have
tested as much as 75PPM and am now down to around 25PPM. I am concerned
since my Nitrite tests read .05 on Salifert and 0 on Fastest.
<Go
with the Salifert, a very high quality test kit>
My reason would be
to believe that either the test kit is contaminated or false or that the
concentration is low that it is not picking up on the Fastest.
<The
latter>
Thank you again,
Matt
(Sorry to be a bother)
<No
bother, keep at it>
<Chris> Damsels,
Cycling, and Algae - 05/20/2006
I’m in the process of starting
up a saltwater aquarium for the first time. After reading through some
of your posts I see that I probably should not have followed the advice
of my aquarium store.
<Uh-oh....>
I have two damsel fish and
live rock in a 29 gallon tank in the cycling phase. I’ve lost 2
damsels.... and the tank isn’t nearly cycled yet.
<Return those fish. The live rock alone is sufficient for cycling the
tank. Get the fish back to the store before the conditions in your
cycling tank kill them.>
I have 2 issues.... 1 is brown algae which
has appeared on everything.... sand, rack and tank.
<To
be expected with a newly established system. You'll go through some
phases of different algal "blooms".>
The other issue regards the
fish themselves. Every so often they tend to swim almost parallel with
each other, leaning to one side and occasionally nipping each other....
<Damsels are HIGHLY territorial, and HIGHLY aggressive. In such a small
system, I do not recommend trying to keep damsels at all. And again,
since the tank is cycling, I would get them back to the fish store
*pronto*.>
One damsel is a deep blue with a purple tail.... the
other is a brownish with a large brown vertical stripe ¼ from the
eye. Any suggestions on either issue?
<Just as
above. Also, you might want to take a read through a couple of good
books that will help you along your way - "The New Marine Aquarium" by
Michael Paletta and "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist" by Robert
Fenner. The former will help you start out, the latter will be an
excellent reference that will be very worthwhile. And, of course, keep
using WetWebMedia. There's a lot of great things to learn, here!>
Thanks, -Steve.
<Wishing you well, -Sabrina>
New
enthusiast and a new QT 5/19/06
Hi, <Hi>
I love your site
and I have looked for the answers to my questions, forgive me if I am
repeating a question. I am new to salt tanks, I have a 55 gal which has
been up 2 mos. I just set up a 10 gal hospital tank, which is a Wal-Mart
type. I bought "biospiral"? <Bio-Spira> to start the biological
process, and I received several "creatures" which I quarantined in this
tank. Before they were added the ph was 8.2, ammonia 0, nitrates and
nitrites were 0, temp 78, and saline 1.022. I added a red tree sponge, a
hermit crab, emerald crab, flower anemone, two small corals, and a
shrimp. There are no live rock or sand The anemone died a day later (I
think he was sick or injured in shipping) <Typically don't ship well>,
and now my ph and all levels are too high, ammonia is 1.5 nitrites are
.50, nitrates are 20, and ph is 8.6. I removed the anemone ASAP, and I
have looked for any debris or food. I have made partial water changes
3x from my bigger tank <Good> I don't know what to do now, suggestions?
I have called the aquarium store I use and they will take the sponge if
that might be what is causing the problem.
<Basically
you have too much life for a little tank. Even with the Bio-Spira your
tank can not keep up with the livestock. Often with Bio-Spira it is
incorrectly stored (not refrigerated) and ineffective as a result. As a
general rule I QT one thing at a time, this allows for better water
quality and less chance of missing disease. Keep up with the water
changes and maybe return some of the livestock for the time being.>
<Chris> Urine as an ammonia source? Tank not
a bathroom 5/16/06
Dear Crew,
<Hello>
Once again I'm asking you to share your knowledge. What is your
opinion on using human urine as a source of ammonia to kick-off the
cycling process?
<Gross, unsanitary, inefficient, unnecessary>
Aside from the shock and disgust I catch from asking this question,
what are the scientific flaws/advantages?
<No advantages that I can
think of. Disadvantages include unknown amounts of ammonia, potential
pathogens, high levels of nutrients, PH problems due to acid nature,
smell, and the fact that no one will come visit the house.>
From
what I understand urine has a small NH3 content. Urine has a specific
gravity of about 1.017-1.020, owing to its dissolved solids, about 60%
of which are organic substances. Besides ammonia, those organics
include urea, uric acid, and creatine, which are all bacterially
decomposed to form carbon dioxide and more ammonia. The other 40% of the
dissolved solids in urine are inorganic Na, Cl, K, PO4 and SO4.
<Really don't want to add PO4 to the tank.>
I
gathered this info here:
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/startover/fishless.shtml
<Much more natural ways of doing a fishless cycle. LR and fish food as
good as or better than using human waste. Details listed on WWM>
Thanks for your time and effort!
Mike.
<Chris>
No nitrites - 05/16/2006
Hello, and thanks for all
the great reading and help. My set up is as follows: 90 gal reef with 20
gal sump. 220 lbs of Australian gold sand (dreaming of a dusky jaw) and
115 lbs live rock. My equipment is 3 maxi-jet 1200's inside main tank
and a PM bullet 1 skimmer in sump. I have no livestock at all, trying to
cycle naturally.
My lighting is 2- 150w MH, 2-96w blue actinics
with 4 lunar lights. My tank has been set up like this since April 13th,
starting the process about a week before that. I believe I need a fan
over my sump as my temp. goes from 80.4' to 82.4' during the course of
the day. I only keep my MH's on for 6 hours, actinics for 10. I do have
a built in fan under lights in canopy. From what I've read here I should
try fanning my sump.
I recently (5 days ago) finally had an
ammonia spike of 1.0, this was quick-- basically waiting for weeks and
then bam, here and gone. My ammonia is now 0. My nitrates are only
5-10ppm (I have only done 1 water change due to too many diatoms, 3
weeks ago) . I have not seen a nitrite reading at all. I know my test is
working property as I cycled my quarantine just fine.
I
presently have 2 clowns in my quarantine waiting, and I'm wondering--did
I miss the nitrite spike? I test about every 4 days. I'm not sure how
long I should wait.
Thanks I know this is ridiculously long, I
truly appreciate it.
Jill
<<Jill: How long have the clowns been
in QT? What is the SG of your tank and QT? Before you add the Clowns
to the main tank, I would make sure that they are healthy and
eating. It's a lot harder to catch a fish in a tank with a lot of
rocks. At this point, since you already have the clowns and you believe
that your tank has cycled, you can consider adding them to the
tank. However, if you really want to play it safe and avoid introducing
fish diseases into your main tank, you should QT the clowns for at least
6 weeks with at an SG of 1.009 measured with a refractometer. While the
clowns remain in QT, you can consider getting some snails, etc to add to
the tank. Best of luck, Roy>>
Extended Nitrogen Cycle?
5/11/06
I sent this message 2 minutes ago, and then found that
the spell checker changed words (names) that should have been left
alone...sorry. It seems WordPerfect mail takes too many liberties in
its changes (changes words without telling you or asking you).
<<No worries mate>>
I wrote before that I was having a slow start to
completing a nitrogen cycle on my marine fish tank. This initial step is
supposed to be the easiest part, but four months later (I started 04
January) it is still not safe to put any fish in it. I have added the
previous message I sent one month ago, and Eric kindly offered some
advice.
<<EricR here again my friend>>
Here is a copy of the
previous message one month ago...
<<Thanks Mike...I've edited out
the previous email to save space as it is already archived>>
One
month later...
I did a 200 liter water change four weeks ago using
Instant Ocean Salt mix with tap water premixed with Tetra Aqua water
conditioner to get rid of the chorine and heavy metals. This also means
turning off the protein skimmer for three weeks because the conditioner
causes bubble storms.
<<Indeed it does. Have a look here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water4maruse.htm)
and try to discern a better method (aerating for 24 hrs, carbon
filtering) for preparing your water...short of utilizing RO/DI or
similar filtration>>
I have not added any shrimp at all for 6 weeks
(nothing floating around in there) and turned on the protein skimmer one
week ago and it is not picking anything up (nothing to pick up).
<<Mmm, maybe>>
I initially used the Marine Master Test Kit to
measure the water, and then ordered the Salifert Test kits to compare as
they should be more accurate. I also added six amps of Biodigest by
Presidio four weeks ago after the water change, added a PolyFilter in
the tank and Seachem Seagel in the protein skimmer compartment. Here
are the results of the tests today:
Ammonia 0 ppm
Nitrite 2.5
ppm
Nitrate 50 ppm
The nitrite is down only because of the water
change (from 5 ppm to 2.5), and has stayed at that level for a month,
checked twice a week. The Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Marine Master Test
kit agrees on the ammonia and nitrite levels with the Saltier test, but
underestimates the nitrates (checked three times). Freshly mixed salt
mix measures 0 pp ammonia 0 ppm nitrite, and measures 2 ppm
nitrate. This cycle seems to be at a stand still, and I have no idea
why.
<<If it's not your source water...and not your test kits...then
it is likely the substrate (marble chips) or the concrete "rock" in the
tank. Or maybe even the Silastic used to construct the tank itself>>
This is not supposed to happen. Have you ever encountered this problem
from anyone else, and do you have any further suggestions?
<<I think
at this point you need to start back at square one and investigate each
component before/as it is added to the tank. Were this me...I would
empty the tank and flush it out with clean water, refill with new
saltwater "only" (all filtration systems running, e.g. - fluidized-bed
filter, skimmer, etc., but leave off carbon/Poly-Filter filtration for
now), then test the water after a week. In the mean time I would place
the substrate and "rock" in separate vessels with clean saltwater and a
powerhead and test this water after a week. If the tank water tests
fine, I would then add the substrate (assuming all test were ok), wait a
week, and test again, then do the same with the rock. Also test your
filter media (carbon, resins), and anything else you can think of that
comes in contact with the tank water. Hopefully this process of
elimination will reveal the culprit>>
All the Best..
Mike Lomb
<<Cheers my friend, Eric Russell>> Live Rock Cycling 5/11/06
Hello Again WWM Crew, Your help thus far has gotten me to where I am and
I am ready to take my next step! I was hoping you could answer a few
questions to help me do this.
<<Woo Hoo! Off to the races! Will be
glad to help out.>>
I have a 75gal display tank with an overflow
plumbed down to my basement into a 55gal tank converted to a
refugium/sump. I have 1 inch of 50/50 live sand/aragonite in the display
tank and 4 inches of the same in the refugium. The live sand has been
in the system for over a month and there are definite signs of life. I
have been curing 70 lbs. of previously uncured Caribbean and Tonga live
rock for the past 2-1/2 weeks with my Aqua C remora in operation in
plastic drums. There is no detectable ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate at
this point.
<<Sounds like a very nice set up! All sounds very
good.>>
This leads to my questions: Some of the rock still has a
strong odor, is it safe to place into my
system yet? Once it is in
the tank, should I expect another Nitrogen cycle?
<<Hmmm...
Shouldn't still be all that stinky unless there is a lot of decaying
matter still attached. I would go over the rock an carefully remove any
dead or dying material (even using a toothbrush or small scrub brush in
places). Afterwards, do a large water change... on the order of 50%. If
you haven't been doing water changes, change another 50% in a few
days. The rock should not cycle again after moving to the display.>>
Will the tank be considered safe to add fish at this point or do I need
to cause another cycle - perhaps using cocktail shrimp? (raw or cooked?)
<<I would wait until you resolve the smell issue. The fact that you
aren't getting any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate could just mean that it
is being processed as fast as it is being produced. If there is enough
stuff on your rock to stink... there is plenty to fuel the cycle. There
is no benefit to using a piece of shrimp or other piece of rotting meat
to drive a cycle.>>
How long should I wait until I can a few fish
(pair of clowns) after all looks good?
<<After the stink is gone,
you should be fine to move the rock to the display and start adding
animals. I guess I should concede that the "stinkiness" of live rock is
quite subjective. If I unloaded my tank right now, my wife would say it
stinks to high heaven, but I would say it smells like the
beach. Whether or not you find such smells pleasant or objectionable
the difference in odor between living things (even unpleasant ones) and
the stench of decaying organic matter is usually instinctively
clear. Your rock may be just fine now.>>
I have reviewed most of
the articles available on your regarding tank cycling and live rock but
I am having trouble piecing it all together for my situation. Thanks
again for doing what you do. You have been there every step of the way.
Andy
<<Every circumstance is different, so the posted articles don't
always have all of the answers. That is why we are here! Best
Regards. AdamC.>>
Live Rock Cycling part 2 5/15/06
Thanks AdamC!! I have been doing 100% water changes every 2-3 days.
<<Awesome!>>
I have been scrubbing the rock during most of the water
changes. Many of the pieces do not have that odor. On some of the
pieces it is evident and I cannot see any decaying matter, but I expect
it is "inside" the rock where I can't get to. Nevertheless, I will keep
curing until I cannot detect the decaying odor on any of the rock. I
have been patient for this long, what's another few weeks? Thanks again
for your help, this clears things up!
<<Glad to help. I am guessing
that you are being overly cautious (which is better than being
cavalier!). Unless the odor is strong, and as long as no ammonia is
present, you can at very least move the rock to the display and get it
aquascaped. After giving it a few days or so to settle down after being
moved, you should be fine to start slowly adding animals. Best
Regards. AdamC.>> Crashed Bio-filtration, SW - 5/8/2006
PLEASE HELP! Well, after the puffer crashed my tank I lost EVERYTHING!
<<Oh no.>>
The puffer is now in a hospital tank but the problem I'm
having is the ammonia level in my 110 gallon tank. It is way off the
chart. The first day I did a 20 gallon water change; 2 days later did a
25 gallon water change and cleaned the filter for a second time with
absolutely no change in the ammonia level. My nitrites and nitrate
levels are at 0 my ph is down to 7.8 but I'm assuming that’s because the
ammonia level is so high. I have made sure there's nothing else in the
tank only my live rock and sand.
<<Do a series of large water
changes to remove the ammonia.>>
My ammonia level in my hospital
tank is also spiked very high. I don't know what to do at this point.
<<In the hospital tank, you need to be doing large daily or twice daily
water changes to keep the levels of toxins down for the puffer.>>
Could my tank be cycling due to all the fish dying?
<<The puffer
crashed your bio-filtration, so yes it is re-cycling.>>
Is this
something that will go down after more time or is there something else
that could be going on that I’m just not seeing?
<<The tank will
level out. BE sure to add Bio Spira or fishless cycle to the intended
bio-load before adding fish to your tank. Lisa.>>
Re:
Crashed Bio-filtration, SW - 5/8/2006
I can not thank you
enough! Thank you so much for having such a wonderful site that newbies
like me can got to and get such wonderful help!
<<You are quite
welcome. Lisa. :)>>
New to SW, cycling, mis-stocking... great
response 4/26/06
Mr. Fenner:
<Actually,
Mrs. Bivens here tonight...Jodie Bivens.>
I have a FO 55g tank that
has cycled and my LFS suggested I put 4 new fish in it at one time!
<Please do NOT do this. Even if the tank is cycled, adding four fish
all at once in such a small tank is too much of an additional bioload
(unless they are very small fish). Odds are definitely stacked against
these poor fishes.>
He says he is a professional and has 30 years of
experience and LR, protein skimmers and ozone are an absolute rip off
and that you can't keep fish and inverts in the same tank.
<That is one big run-on sentence (on your part), and one big load of
nonsense (on his part). Live rock is invaluable in my opinion, as is
protein skimming. I've never used ozone personally, but then again I've
heard many good things about it. Keeping fish and inverts
together? That depends on both what fish, and what inverts, but TOTALLY
do-able and very often beneficial.>
I put in a flagfin angel, a
Koran angel, a raccoon butterfly and a regal tang at once and within 48
hours the raccoon and the Koran were dead.
<No kidding.>
I have
done 25% water changes every week since the cycle. The flagfin, the
tang and my original niger trigger are all doing
(apparently) great!
<Did this guy tell you that housing two angels, a tang, a butterfly, and
a trigger in a 55 was acceptable? Let me tell you this: It is most
certainly not. Seems your LFS is out to make a buck; that's it.>
I
am within 1mm of firing the &*&^%$#&(^ and never going near him again!
<I recommend that to you 100%>
Am I CRAZY?
<For putting all
those fish together in a 55? Yes. Okay, okay, maybe not crazy but
misinformed. Pardon my snarkiness, but people like this "man" infuriate
me.>
Peacemaker
<Peacemaker, let me parody a well-known
commercial:
*Flagfin Angel = $60.00
*Koran Angel = $40.00
*Raccoon Butterfly = $35.00
*Regal Tang = $50.00
*Researching and saving innocent fishy lives = priceless>
PS I
have read your book and Tullock's book and they seem to be logical and
reasonable.
<I agree; I see Mr. Fenner's book as my Aqua
Bible.>
This guy seems to think that He, his teacher and whoever are
the only people who know anything about marine AQ's. It seems to me
that the more natural you can make an environment, the better.
<Absolutely. If you were kidnapped and forced to live in a tiny box,
would you want just a couple other people and nothing else, or your
natural environment? I sure hope my captors would provide me a couch,
TV, and coffee!>
They seems to think that the only thing natural in
your tank should be the fish! $500 worth of dead coral skeletons and a
siphon tube overflow with no biomedia, just sponges just does not seem
to be natural. BTW I am 58 yrs old, by no means a techgeek!
<Peacemaker, please do your research. You seem to have good intentions,
and we'd like to see you succeed with your aquarium! Bookmark us and
read, read, read. In the meantime, stay away from that
LFS. Cheerio, Jodie> Nano-Cube Cycled? 4/20/06
Hello,
I have a 12g Nano Cube that I've been running for about 10
weeks now. It's completely stock with no modifications or additions.
<There are many that you should make to make this tank sufficient. Do a
search for mods.>
I have about 2" of live sand over which I've
placed about 10lbs of Fiji live rock. Parameters are as follows: Ammonia
0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0, PH 8.2.
Salinity 1.022. I perform a 1 gal
water change twice a week using distilled water and Instant Ocean.
Lights are on a timer set for 14 hrs a day. Temp runs about 81-82.
Animals include: 1 small clown fish, 1 fire goby, 1 sand sifting goby
(not sure of the name, sorry), 3 small blue leg hermits, 6 small algae
eating snails (Trochus?), xenia coral, 4" Zoanthid colony, 4" star polyp
colony, 3" mushroom colony.
<Wow, this is an awful lot to have in a
tank so young. You really should've taken more time adding organisms
here.>
When I purchased the tank, my LFS told me that the tank would
cycle in about three days.
<That's actually amusing, it should take
a least 2 weeks, sometimes up to a month to cycle properly.>
I
thought this was dubious information but being a trusting fellow I
proceeded. I didn't begin testing the water until about day 5 at which
time (all test readings being 0), I added the Zoanthids, and have slowly
added items at a rate of about 1 per week. While I've continued to test
about once per week the only measurable amounts of Ammonia, Nitrite, or
Nitrate I've had have been an occasional increase in Ammonia when I
would add a new addition to the tank and this would then settle back
down after a day.
<Normal>
At no time have I ever had a Nitrate
level above 0. My questions is this: Has this tank ever actually cycled?
<Probably considering the time frame here.>
If so, should I avoid
making water changes until I begin to see a rise in the Nitrate level?
<Absolutely keep up with the water changes, you have too much in your
tank to be able to not do them.>
If not, am I doomed or is there a
way I can finish he cycle without killing everything in the tank. I have
no other tank to use at this point. Thanks for your great web site as
it's already helped immensely. Sincerely, David.
<You're probably
fine here, but take note that I said "probably". I really do believe
you added way too much too fast. It is important that you keep a VERY
close eye on parameters right now. (this is always true with a nano
system. You don't have ANY room to error here) I would test twice a
week, stay with your once a week water changes, and once again, watch
closely. Good luck, Jen S.>
Re: cycling again 4/21
Hello again,
<Hi Jill>
and thanks for all of your help through
this process. My set up is a 90 gallon reef (brand new), 240 lbs sand,
115 lbs live rock.
<WOW - lots of live rock/sand there!>
I have a 20 gallon sump with PM bullet inside running with a Sedra 9000.
My main pump is a Mag 9.5. I keep my ph at 8.3 and a temp. of 80'. The
tank has been like this since Monday (5 days ago). My question is do I
need to do water changes during the cycling process?
<You don't have to as long as there is no livestock in there. If it
takes exceedingly long, then do a 10% change.>
I only put some dried
krill in the tank for the little hitchhikers that came with my rock
(miniature serpents and a snail or two).
<Good to have
the ammonia source added anyway.>
Would you recommend adding Hagen's
cycle?
<Nope nature does wonderful things just by herself. But it
will take longer than 5 days.>
I am opposed to adding any livestock
to cycle my tank.
<Me too, too much stress.>
This
process began-albeit in my mind-a year ago and I do not need to rush it
now.
<Great! Better not to rush this. Good luck! Jen
S.>
Thanks for your help.
Jill Re: cycling again 4/21
- 04/22/2006
Hi Jen , thanks for your reply.
<No problem>
I forgot to ask about my brown diatom algae that is breaking out. With
no livestock I didn't think it would be so bad.
Is this normal? I
do expect the tank to take 6 weeks or so to cycle with no livestock, but
I was trying to avoid changing the water (I had to change the filter
pad, the water was running right over it) but I know I shouldn't touch
much. Thanks again, have a great weekend.
<Actually, do a small
maybe 15% water change. Too much nutrients here, even with the
cycle. Its also good to manually remove all diatoms, syphon out. This
can, but probably won't, become a large issue. Have a good one, Jen S.>
Jill Cured Live Rock/Nitrogen Cycle Confusion - 04/12/06
Hi Guys,
<<...and Gals>>
Firstly, just a comment from my
side. My first attempt at a marine tank was an absolute disaster, due
to all the classic mistakes that beginners make. This time around I
feel a lot more prepared and confident with my new setup, because of 3
things:
1. Research done on your website.
2. Email assistance by
your crew.
3. Dr. Fenner's book "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist"
Once again, thank you very much for all of this...without your help I
would have been nowhere.
<<Ah, all very good to hear...is truly a
"collective" effort>>
Secondly... I am at the point now where a very
basic part of my new aquarium has me a little bit stumped. I have read
and searched through so many FAQ's on your side about this, but I still
can't decide on the best step to take.
<<Ok>>
In short, my
question is as follows. My new tank is around 130 gallons, with about
another 40 gallons in the sump. Once my water was at the correct
salinity and temperature, I added my aragonite substrate and 150 pounds
of cured live rock. The system has been running like this for 7 days
now (skimmer and lighting are still switched off).
<<I would fire up
that skimmer>>
At the moment there is still no trace of ammonia,
nitrites or nitrates. So to me this means 1 of 2 things:
1. The
cycle happened so quickly that I didn’t notice it.
2. There is no
source of ammonia in the tank, so nothing to kick start the process.
(Hard to believe, unless my live rock is actually dead rock)
<<If
your rock was truly "cured", then the first option is quite possible>>
I'm hoping that (1) is the case because of all the live rock, but then
why am I not seeing any nitrates?
<<This is due to the large amount
of cured rock>>
I'm just a bit confused now. Should I wait a couple
more weeks and if no spikes occur then proceed to add the first
livestock (at the risk of only then starting the cycle)?
<<Small
risk here in my opinion. If you trust your test kits, go ahead and add
your first fish and continue to monitor water quality.>>
Should I
add something to the system to "test" it or force the start of the
cycle?
<<Can do...toss in a pinch of fish food and see what happens
if you wish.>>
I've search the FAQ's about this and in general I get
the idea that I should just leave it another few weeks and start
stocking if no spike occurs, but I would still like some guidance if you
can spare a moment.
<<Likely all is fine but if you have the
patience for it...throw in some fish food and give things another week>>
Many thanks for you support.
Chris
<<Very welcome, EricR>>
Extended Nitrogen Cycle? - 04/10/06
I am currently cycling a
marine tank without livestock.
<<Good to know...I personally don't
care for the alternative>>
I started this on 07 January 2006, and it
is still far from complete.
<<Hmm...unusual>>
The tank holds 250
liters of water after displacement (60 cm, height and width, and 100 cm
length),
<<That's "some" displacement. More than "half" the volume
of the tank by my calculation.>>
and has a 10 cm deep sand bed made
from 1 - 2 mm crushed marble, and 35 kg of white concrete sculptures
(previously soaked in fresh and then salt water for four months and is
pH neutral).
<<No live rock/aragonite/Oolitic material?>>
There
is 100 liter sump under the tank, three chambers separated with baffles
(a copy of Rob Fenner's design from this web site). I am using a Deltec
MC 600 hang-on protein skimmer on the side of the display tank that has
been running since the first day. There is 3 liters of JBL micromec
sintered glass beads in the central (second) chamber of the sump. There
is also a Merlin fluidized bed filter connected to an internal pump in
the sump circulating the water between the first and third chamber. An
internal Tunze Turbelle Stream 6060 pump is in the display tank (6000
lire/hour), and 3000/hr liter Pentair pump in the last chamber of the
sump returning water to the display tank. A Durso standpipe returns the
water to the sump in an internal corner overflow (20 cm x 15 cm).
<<All good>>
There is NO live rock (not available in New Zealand),
<<Ah!...now I understand...bummer>>
and I have not used any
bacterial seeding products yet.
<<Might help>>
Biodigest by
Porbidio is available in New Zealand.
<<I'm not familiar with this
product, but likely not harmful at the least.>>
I do not altogether
trust live media from other established tanks (I have seen Ick in them.)
<<A moot point if the tank remains fallow for about eight weeks from
time of entry as the parasite will complete its life-cycle and die out
in the absence of a host>>
I tried to get an initial value of 0.5
ppm ammonia in my tank, and added crushed frozen cocktail shrimp to the
tank. It took about 20 shrimp in total over a three week period to get
to this level.
<<Seems like a lot of decaying shrimp to me>>
The
first detectable level of nitrite appeared on 16 February at 0.2 ppm
(seven weeks later), the first detectable level of nitrate appeared on
20 Feb. at 5 ppm.
<<I think your test kits may be suspect>>
I
continued to add one or two shrimp a week to keep the cycle going from
the front end to support the Nitrosomonas bacteria that convert ammonia
to nitrite. There has been no ammonia detected since 01 March. For the
last five weeks the nitrite levels have been about 5 ppm, nitrates 20
ppm and ammonia zero. The pH has remained at 8.3, temp 27 degrees
C. Other not so important parameters at this stage are calcium 320, KH
10.6, Alk 3.77, and Mg 1300, and salinity 1.023 , phosphate 0.5
<<That's a lot of phosphate...assumably from the rotting shrimp...else
if not, you have another problem.
The tank is topped up with three
liters of fresh water each day, using dechlorinating solutions. (By the
way my freshly made up salt water contains no ammonia, nitrites or
nitrates).
<<These are the same test kits used to measure the
tank?>>
I was aware that cycling a tank without live rock and
waiting for bacteria to fall from the sky can take up to 100 days, but
this is a great trial of patience.
<<Mmm, no...not in my opinion. I
remember cycling tanks back in the day when live rock did not "exist" in
the hobby, and without using live "seeds", could be accomplished in 6-8
weeks routinely.>>
I could just do a partial water change, but I
thought that is defeating the purpose of establishing bacteria to manage
this (pulling the food from under them). At present the Nitrospira and
Nitrobacter bacteria that convert nitrite to nitrate are at too low a
level to complete the cycle (but they are there).
<<As you state,
the bacteria are present...I would remove as much of the shrimp as I
could find and do a large water change at this point. Let the tank run
a couple days and retest. If ammonia/nitrite/nitrate read zero
(assuming you have fresh/reliable test kits), I would then add a small
fish (fed daily) and continue to monitor tank parameters>>
The high
nitrite levels may be forestalling this.
<<I don't believe so>>
Perhaps caving in with the use of a bacterial seeding product may be
appropriate, and withholding further dead shrimp from the front end of
the cycle, or just waiting yet another month. Do you have any
suggestions for how I should continue to manage this long nitrogen
cycle, now starting its 14 the week, about 100 days, and still counting.
<<Indeed...try my suggestion...things just may need "shaking up">>
All the Best from New Zealand...Mike Lomb
<<Cheers from Sunny South
Carolina...EricR>> Question on Hair Algae Tufts
and Cycling 4/6/06
Hi Mr. Fenner, <Hi Howard - Tim
answering your question today.>
I really enjoy your website and have
picked up a lot of useful information!
My question
regards excessive green hair algae tufts growing in a new tank.
My
new 25 gal. Florida live rock tank is now on day 15 and contains 25
lbs. live sand and 25 lbs. aquacultured live rock with myriad life
growing on it.
I'm using a Remora skimmer, 2 X 160 gph. MaxiJet
powerheads for circulation (just replaced the ZooMed 270
GPH PowerSweep), a small Whisper power filter with Seachem Matrix
carbon in a small bio-bag just for picking up larger particulates and
water clarity, and a 2 X 65W PC Corallife Aqualight with (1) 10K and
(1) 50/50. I've done several small 10-15% water changes using RO/DI
water and Seachem Reef Salt as well as the boxed Catalina Seawater and
also dosed daily with SeaChem's 'Stability' to assist the cycling
during the first 8 days.
The free ammonia level never exceeded .5
PPM during the cycle and nitrites topped out at about 25 PPM for a day
or two before dropping quickly. The tank
has now just about
finished cycling with the following water parameters:
PH ----8.2
Alk. ---11.2
SG --- 1.0255
temp --- 75.5 - 76.5
free ammonia ---0 PPM
nitrite -----0 - .1 PPM
nitrate ----3-5
PPM (has varied a bit from day to day)
During the first week or so I
ran the lights about 5-6 hrs. per day, but now have them on about 10
hrs. per day with the 50/50 coming on 1 hr. before the 10K and going
off 1 hr. afterwards. The tank is also near a large bay window in a
bright room but doesn't really receive any direct head on sunlight
during the day.
I have been diligent in trying to keep my water
parameters good and have not fed the tank anything nor added anything
else with the exception of a very small amount of Seachem Reef Complete
and Reef Trace only once or twice between water changes. I don't think
either one of those would have added any bad nutrients to contribute to
algae growth. I also top off daily using bottled distilled water.
About a week or so ago, I saw some small areas of brown slime type algae
on the back glass and small light patches of green hair
algae growing on nearly all the glass as well as on some of the rocks
which I though was ok and a normal part of the cycling process so I
wasn't concerned. Within the past week or so however the green hair
algae tufts have really started to take over the tank and is now
growing very thick on the front and back glass mostly in small thick
tufts that almost resemble numerous hair plugs. Large areas of my rock
are now also covered with thick patches of the same, as well as small
areas of dark red hair algae growths, and I'm worried that it's
starting to smother out the other life on the rocks. The green hair
algae is so thick on the front glass that it nearly completely obscures
you from seeing inside the tank.
Is this type of hair
algae breakout normal in a new tank and should I begin trying to
manually remove it from the glass and rocks or just let it run
its course and hope it subsides? I have delayed in receiving the rest
of my rock package and clean up crew until I can get a handle on this
hair algae issue. Any advice you can offer, or advise what I'm doing
wrong would be greatly appreciated! Thanks very much. <This is a very
common problem experienced by the majority of marine aquarists. As such,
there is a wealth of information on this topic to be found on the
website - simply do a search for "Green hair algae" using the Google
search feature. Alternatively have a look at this site and the links
contained therein
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm. Best of luck.>
Regards, Howard W.
Yet another question about tank cycling... - 04/04/2006
Hey there WWM crew! <Hey!> I have a question about cycling a new
tank. I apologize if this is something that has already been
addressed...I've spent several hours searching FAQ's & haven't found
anyone else with this particular problem so here go's. 8 weeks ago I
began to set up my new nano reef tank. It's a 12 Gallon JBJ nano
cube. Everything in it is stock. I started with 1" of aragonite
crushed coral substrate & distilled water with enough Reef Crystals to
get a specific gravity of 1.023. I let this run in the tank for about 4
days before purchasing 12 lbs of live rock from my LFS. <Sounds
good.> The rock was beautiful- almost completely covered in purple
coralline algae. Since then, I've been monitoring tank daily. The
results are as follows: Temp- 78 degrees F; sp gravity- 1.022 - 1.023;
pH 7.8; Alk- 300; ammonia- 0; nitrites- 0; nitrates- 0. <Alright, pH
needs to go up a bit.> I've taken samples to the LFS & they have
verified these tests. The coralline algae is as pretty as ever. A
community of feather dusters has popped up & seems to be doing
fine. <Enjoy!> Also lots of various other critters (snails & Caulerpa &
such) that apparently came w/ the rock. But my tank does not seem to be
cycling. <No spike in ammonia?> I have not done any water changes or
changed any filters- just been letting it do what it will & monitoring
closely. I have the lights set up on a 12 hour cycle. I didn't want to
add any inverts or fish until I was sure it was safe to do so. I also
don't want to use any chemicals to raise the pH & lower the alkalinity-
if I don't have to. <Here often needs chemical tweaking, its safe to do
so.> I favor a more natural
approach. But I'm getting a little
anxious. Is it safe to say that this tank is not going to cycle w/o the
addition of some livestock? My plan for the tank was just a small
colony of shrooms, some pulsing xenia and 1 percula clownfish- along w/
some blue legged hermit crabs for clean-up. Nothing elaborate- In the
long run I really just have to have a "Nemo" fish for my daughter who is
2. Any advise you have would be greatly appreciated. My rocks are
beautiful & fascinating- but the goal of this project was to eventually
have a fish! :-) Thanks & have a great afternoon! <I cannot tell if
your tank has already cycled - it has been 8 weeks and at least should
have begun, or if it hasn't started. Which I feel is unlikely. The
addition of the live rock should've given enough of a boast to start the
process. Read more here on what you can do/add
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupii.htm It seems to me that your
safe to add a VERY limited amount of inhabitants to this tank. Be
careful though and keep a close eye on readouts. Have a great one, Jen
S.>
Jaime Gard Marine Set Up/Nitrogen
Cycle - 03/22/06
Hi crew (again) <Hello John.>
I have
another question. <Shoot>
My tank is cycling over due to a sump
failure. The tanks cycling looked to be finished, <Looked to be
finished?> so I was going to pick up my fish. Ammonia was 0, and
nitrates about 30 yesterday. Today, ammonia is back to 0.25 and
nitrates 120! I thought it was cycled so I didn't pick up my fish. Do
you know anything about the fluctuations in ammonia/nitrate? <If a food
source is not present
to develop a good bacteria colony, the
different test readings you are getting are quite possible. Read here
to further understand the denitrification process.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/filtration/biological/biofiltr.htm> The
only thing was that I added a
trickle filter as well but didn't
remove anything. Thanks Ps. the test kit is not inaccurate because I
compared it to the one at the
LFS. <You do not mention how long the
tank cycled or if any waste producers were in the tank to start the
cycle. Do not understand how nitrates can go up that much in a day or
two. I'd retest nitrates again or let LFS test and compare. James
(Salty Dog)>
SW Cycling - 3/20/2006
Hello everyone:
<<Hi Cody>>
I'm getting ready to install a Magnum 350 canister
filter in my 29 gallon salt. It is a used system; it was used for fresh
water. The question is, the bio wheels are still wet from fresh water.
How would I introduce the biological system for the salt water with out
crashing the tank?
<<The nitrifying bacteria housed on the FW
canister are different from the SW variety of nitrifying bacteria. They
will not survive the transfer. Please search WWM regarding cycling and
filtration.>>
Thanks for your help. Cody
<<Glad to help. Lisa.>>
Biological Filtration/Bio Spira 3/19/06
Hello, <Hello
Czarina>
Advice needed here! Two of the fish stores near to us have
said very convincingly that using Bio Spira nitrifying bacteria, at the
same time as adding 3 larger fish (i.e. not damsels, but rather straight
to a small puffer, a tang, and something similar) prevents the need for
cycling the tank in advance. Everything I have read states that there is
no way to avoid cycling- so I am truly confused as to whether this is a
truly viable option, or whether this is indeed risky- and will most
likely result in the demise of the fish. <I have mixed feelings about
products like these. There are factors such as shelf life, temperature
extremes, etc, that can have an effect on the bacteria in the product.
I've always let my tanks cycle the natural way, felt more comfortable
doing so. James (Salty Dog)>
Please let me know what to do!
Kind
regards,
Czarina. Royal Gramma Help... actually, an example of
punctuated knowledge, learning in our species... A useful paradigm for
military conflicts, government manipulation of the masses
3/16/06
Hi, I started a fish only saltwater aquarium about 7
weeks ago. I cycled the tank with damsels and removed them as I was told
by my fish consultant when I was ready to get other fish.
<Mmm, see
WWM re this practice... the damsels may have left you a nasty (disease)
surprise...>
I bought 2 percula clowns and 1 royal Gramma. In about
2 days, one clown died and from the way I described it, my fish
consultant believes it was clownfish disease.
<There's more than
one... Brooklynellosis? Should not have occurred if these were tank
bred...>
About a week later, I lost the other one. I am waiting
about 2 weeks before I buy anymore clowns.
<... in the meanwhile,
please read on WWM re these animals needs>
I have now had the royal
Gramma for about 3 weeks and over that time I have added a Heniochus
butterfly, a coral beauty angel, and a strawberry Pseudochromis.
<... how large is this system? How filtered?>
The Pseudochromis
charged at the royal Gramma once or twice when I first added him to the
display tank, and they have seemed fine ever since.
<Will be unless
this system is "at least four feet long">
I see no tension between
any of the fish right now. They are all eating fine and look healthy,
except the royal Gramma. A couple days ago, I noticed his top fin was a
little rigid and had a tiny tear in it. I also saw that his left fin
looks like the cartilage has been torn.
<Likely from tussling with
the Dottyback>
He can still swim fine, but I am concerned. I also
saw that one of his bottom fins looks like half of it was sort of
snapped off. I also see 2 whitish lines back above his eyes, but I don't
know if they were there before. Could these characteristics be from the
Pseudochromis or could it be an infection of some kind?
<Both, from
one, then the other... will likely die if not removed, treated
elsewhere>
I am very concerned and if you have any advice, please
let me know. Thanks!
<... as time goes by you'll understand how
little useful information you have provided here. Please, do yourself
and your livestock the favor of educating yourself. Don't rely on a
consultant, me... read. Bob Fenner> SW Cycling - 3/10/2006
Hello there,
<<Hello Tiffani.>>
I have a quick question (the set
up into it is a bit longer). Well, at least I hope it has a quick
answer. I have been cycling my 46 gallon bow front with about 40 lbs of
live rock for very close to 4 weeks now. My ammonia level is .25
ppm. In fact, it has been at that level since I began testing the water
parameters, which I began 3 days after my initial set-up. I saw the
huge spike in nitrites, which has since dropped to 0 and has been there
for a little over 2 weeks. My nitrates have been hanging out at 20 ppm
as well. They were much higher at one point, but at the 20 ppm level
for about 2 weeks. I have done several water changes, as I have read
that can lower the nitrate level, however, no such luck. My question
is, should I still be registering ammonia if the nitrites are clearly
0? My impression of the whole cycling process was that ammonia is
converted into nitrites, then they into nitrates. I just assumed since
the nitrite was 0, the ammonia would be as well. My SG has been 1.022
all along. The temperature has been steady at 78-79 degrees. I am
wondering if it could be my test kit giving me a false positive on the
ammonia. I am using the Marine Lab by Red Sea.
<<This could be the
issue, of you could be experiencing additional die-off in the live
rock. Do buy another brand of test kit, and have your LFS test your
water, to ensure the accuracy of the reading. Also, have you checked
your source water? Test the water you add to the tank, to see if this
is the source of ammonia you are seeing.>>
I am anxious to get
started with adding some livestock, but patient.
<<A virtue in this
hobby of ours. You will thank yourself later!>>
Thank you in
advance for your time and for maintaining such a thorough and wonderful
website. It is much appreciated.
Sincerely,
Tiffani Tobin
<<You are quite welcome. Glad to help. Lisa.>>
SW Cycling II
- 3/12/2006
Thank you very much Lisa.
<<You're welcome!>>
I will purchase a different test kit and see if I get different
results. Not to say that things are not dying off on the LR, but there
sure is a lot of life scurrying around on them. I guess having ammonia
readings then could mean there is additional die-off. I had not thought
about that. Would I then expect to see an increase in nitrites, because
I have not over the past 2 weeks?
<<It is hard to say. Live rock
often changes the typical cycling levels we would expect to see.>>
I
will be sure to have an LFS test my tank water too. I will also pick up
an ammonia test kit for freshwater and see what happens.
<<Yes, as your source water may in fact be the issue.>>
Thanks
again,
Tiffani.
<<You're welcome again! Lisa.>>
SW
Cycling III - 3/16/2006
Hello Crew,
I guess since the
replying back and forth, the initial email has gone off into cyberspace
somewhere, but I still have a couple of questions. I will try to sum up
things in a Reader's Digest version. I am now cycling for about 4 & 1/2
weeks. I have been registering 0.25 ppm of ammonia for over 2 weeks
with no change. Nitrites have been a clear 0 for the same time (I did
see the initial gigantic spike in the beginning of the cycling process,
with the drop to 0). Nitrates appear to now be a little less than 20
ppm, but not quite 10. Anyway, I was (in a previous email) wondering if
it could be my test giving me the false positive on the ammonia. So, I
went and bought a different test for ammonia, a dip test into a vial of
tank water. I have tested 4 times in the past 3 days and that is
registering no ammonia levels. I also purchased a SeaChem Ammonia Alert
that suctions inside the aquarium for a constant level of ammonia. That
has been in place for 3 days as well, and that also shows no readable
ammonia. I just do not know how reliable that is. I, of course, have
no intention on relying on that alone in the future. Should I believe
that it is actually possible there is no ammonia and my tank may be
cycled at this point?
<<Yes.>>
Two test methods would indicate
yes. If there is a problem with My Red Sea Marine Lab test kit for
ammonia, do you think it is possible all other results are inaccurate
regarding other parameters?
<<If ever in doubt, use a secondary
test/method.>>
Sorry, I think I have bordered on a novel version.
<<Not a problem, it helps me remember the original question, when it is
not attached.>>
I am sorry, one more question. Reading through your
site about water for the tank...I want to clarify something if I
can. If I allow water (for top off or salted for a water change) to sit
in a container with a power head and thermometer for at least a week,
does it then NOT NEED a dechlorinator?
<<The chlorine will gas off
over time, but other harmful substances will remain. I use Prime, by
Seachem.>>
Thank you so much in advance for your time with this
matter. Do you ever just feel like slapping people like me?
<<Not
at all! Lisa.>>
Sincerely, Tiffani Tobin
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