Cycling A SW Tank With Dead "Live Rock" - 01/04/2006
Hey Hey,
<Hello Angelo.>
First off, your site is the BEST on the web for saltwater help and tips!
<Thanks for the kind words.>
I'm new to saltwater tanks. I bought a whole setup from a friend, 55gal, rock, lights, heater, protein skimmer, 2-powerheads and sump.
<1-2 more powerheads will be a good future purchase.>
Thing is that the "live rock" had been sitting in a big bucket for about a year in his basement so it's safe to say it is now dead.  Now I've read that you can cycle a tank with just rock (no sand, no inverts, no fish etc.) without any light (because using light would grow unwanted algae).
<In this situation you're rock won't import the bacteria to jump start the cycle so I would fill (substrate, rock, Etc.) and run the tank. The cycle will happen regardless so just give it time. Can toss in some food to start things or if your friends tank is in good shape (matured, disease/medication free) perhaps he will allow you a scoop of sand (or a few gallons of "used" from his next water change perhaps). >
Is this true, that I can cycle a tank with just rock?
<Can cycle a tank with just water.>
I've been told to rinse, rinse and rinse the rock because it's been sitting out for a long time and scrap off anything that looked biological on the outside of the rock.
<I wouldn't bother. This stuff can get you started also.>
Now once my tank gets a stable temp of 78, stable SG of 1.020-1.025
<You realize this fluctuation can't be considered stable, right?>
and stable pH of 8.1-8.4,
<Nor can this one.>
can I add the dead "live rock" to start the cycle process?
<Yep, and you don't even have to torture any fish. Good stuff!>
Will the dead rock give off enough ammonia to start the cycle?
<If it does in fact have old life crusted on, it should.>
And at the end of the cycle, what should the Nitrate level be?
<What you're looking for is when the ammonia and nitrite become zero (after they've peaked).>
Please help.
<Hope I have.>
Any other tips or advice you feel like sharing would be greatly appreciated
<Just the above.>
Angelo
<Josh.>

Tank Start Up
Bob:
<Ben>
Just thinking out loud here, please help.
<Will try>
Trying to wrap my mind around the startup concept of adding live sand in the DSB's (Tank and Refuge) and a portion of the overall total of live rock that will eventually enter the aquarium.
What bothers me is that the LS and LR will be sensitive to ammonia, nitrite, nitrate etc. and in the process of building up a good population of bacteria the LR and LS will be stressed with some micro and macro organisms dying off.
<Yes>
Why can't I take it real slow and dose the tank with a pharmaceutical grade ammonia and add bottled bacteria from a reputable vendor.
<You can... and even skip the exogenous ammonia>
In theory I should be able to build a strong bacterial base which would be augmented with doses of LS and LR once everything is at ZERO or very close to ZERO. My thinking is that with as few as possible living things going through the cycle, more will survive and less will be stressed and the introduction of LR and LS will produce minimal ammonia spikes if any.
Your thoughts?
<Your thinking is correct here... the only "downside" is the added amount of time to "really" livestocking. Bob Fenner>
Thank You,
Benjamin

New larger aquarium set-up  9/5/05
Greetings Staff. <Hello Dean>
I have a question that I hope you can help me with. <Shoot>
I am in the process of setting up a new 180 gallon marine tank.  I have had it running for about 2 weeks. Originally I filled it with approximately 50 % seasoned water from another tank and a few cups full of seasoned crushed coral (substrate) and the balance of water I mixed fresh. I have been measuring the usual components but have not experienced an ammonia spike.
Will I or should I get a large reading of ammonia or will I need to feed it further with something? <You need to feed it.  Add a couple of hardy fish.  You probably won't experience a spike since the crushed coral you added should have a good starter culture.>I have about 80 pounds of fully cured live rock on hold at the LFS and will add about  50 pounds from another tank that I have.
Is it better to add the rock now or should I wait until my new tank has fully cycled on its own ? <I would add it now and also, no lighting for at least three weeks, preferably four.  We don't want nuisance algae to take hold during start up.>
Thanks for all of your help. All the members of the crew have been very
helpful to all of us marine enthusiasts and it is very much appreciated. <Thank you, James (Salty Dog)>
Dean Fowler

Live Rock Cycling
<Hello! Ryan with you>
My tank has been running for just over 2 weeks now and I was told that since I setup my new Aquarium with Cured Live Rock/Live Sand, it cycles in like 5-10 days. <It may, but it's always better to over-shoot.  Give it at least 3 weeks to stabilize.> ( I have a 29gallon Acrylic tank with a Corallife 130w (65w white, 65w Actinic), 100w Heater, SeaClone 100 skimmer, Fluval 2 Plus Underwater Filter, Aquaclear 301 power head, 40lbs Live Rock and 40lbs Live Sand ) I talked to the Store where I bought my stuff to start the tank, and told him that the Ammonia was at 0.50 as well as my nitrites at 0.50 and he said I should do a 15% water change. <I'd wait until fully cycled> I said that I thought you were suppose to wait for the Tank to cycle (4-8weeks) before you did your first water change. <Yup> He said since I used the cured Live Rock/Live Sand my tank should have already cycled.  I have read that until your tank cycles you will get above normal ammonia, then above normal nitrite, then above normal nitrate, then it is cycled.  Help me out here, what is the deal, is my tank cycled and I should start doing weekly 10-20% water changes. <What are your reading to date?> My Brown algae kicked in around day 4 and was kind of there for like 3-4 days but is gone now, and the tank is actually doing well with the exception to this ammonia/nitrite thing. Heck I got a Dwarf Flame Angel and a Bicolor Pseudo that are doing really well as well as some snails/cleaner shrimp and 4 hermits with a Sand Sifter Star. <Whoa!  Don't you think you should make sure it's cycled before adding all that livestock?  Now that I get the picture, it seems like you a re-cycling.  By adding all that bio-load in a short period of time, you've maxed out the available resources for processing waste.  You need to be very mindful of your nitrite and ammonia- they could easily stress your livestock.  And be extra light on feedings until everything pans out.> They are all swimming and eating well, I take out the extra food they do not eat or miss and am only feeding them like 1/4 part of a small frozen Mysis Shrimp cube.  I was reading that until a tank is well established you will get these small Ammonia/Nitrite amounts until the Live Rock/Live Sand Biological environment gets established.  
<Please read>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/estbiofiltmar.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/feeding.htm
I am new to the Saltwater realm coming from 10 years of freshwater, and have read a lot of different opinions as well as listened to the opposing two fish stores I shop at.  I think I bought a good starting setup for a Reef Aquarium and just want to make sure I can get this started well so I can start putting more Inverts/fish in my system.  I know I should wait like 4-6 months before I put Corals in my tank, but I want to get some inverts and fish established first with a stable system. ( Dwarf Flame Angel Might peck at hard and soft corals, but they say that only 2 in 10 peck at hard and soft corals. My wife liked him so I am taking the 80% chance that he will not.)
<You're already pushing things- A Flame Angel in a tight fit in a 29 gallon.  The smaller a tank is, the more likely he is to "sample" your corals.  Please go very slowly, and check out Mr. Fenner's portion of CMA on smaller systems.  It should be very helpful in your new project.  Good luck! Ryan>
Thanks,

The Light At The End Of The Tunnel...
HI Guys,
I just wanted to say thanks a lot to Scott F for the good advice and here is an update as to what is going on in the tank now.
<Glad the response was helpful to you!>
The ammonia levels have dropped quite a bit ( Almost undetectable) I think I gave some misleading information about how long I have had my tank going. I have had it for approximately 3-4 years, I had to move (lots of fun, with anemone's and lots of live rock!) So I had to take it down and then set it up again but kept 1/4 of the water and had all the original sand and stuff.
<A good technique!>
So it is kind of established, the live rock is covered in algae, green hair and purple calcareous. I think that it really  helped the tank bounce back from that dosage incident that happened. I was really happy to see the tank stabilize and I did not lose a single fish.
<Excellent!>
I did lose one Turbo snail who did not acclimatize well to my tank. I can deal with that with all things considered. The next issue to deal with is getting that phosphate down and controlling the green algae.
<Another battle- but one that is relatively easily solved with some simple techniques!>
Thanks again Scott I really appreciate the good advice, you guys help so many people in this hobby every single day. You should get an award or something.
<Ya know what? Just knowing that we've helped out a fellow hobbyist through a frustrating situation is a reward in itself!>
Cheers! J*
<Continued success, J. Regards, Scott F.>

Cycling with liverock
I will try to be brief.
<No problem>
I am brand new to this stuff, at least to marine.  I have started the set up process with used tank and accessories from an individual who upgraded to larger.  I have set up a plenum with "live" sand, at least that is what the bags said.  About 60 lbs of live sand, 20 lbs of aragonite, and 20 or so of "substrate/ gravel".  Using the equipment below, I let the sand settle and run for two days.  Now the fella I bought the equipment from said I needed to get something in the water otherwise I would "loose the sand".  On his suggestion I ran out and got a half dozen damsels and a dozen hermits.  72 hrs later still all tests are quite good and livestock are hanging in.
Everything I have read suggest I should be cycling with LR right now.  My question is this, is it ok to put some in (100 lbs),  it is supposed to be fully cured Fiji.  Should I expect a large enough spike to kill the little livestock I currently have?
<Any ammonia or nitrite will stress the livestock. It is preferred to add liverock and cycle the tank with this. If you decide to keep the livestock use water changes when necessary to control the ammonia and nitrite. Yes, you can add the rock now. Hope this helps, Don>
What I have;
100 gal tank
two 14000 k MH :  on for about four hours/ day
four compact actinic : on for 12 hours
emperor power filter/ BioWheel
three power heads
Berlin HO skimmer
I will be converting to sump after I gather up all the remaining items.

Cycling tank with live rock
>Hello crew, you guys are great!
>>Greetings, Marina here.
>I have couple questions to ask if I may?  Getting ready to fire up my 120 gal tank FOWL. Can I just add 120lbs of cured premium live rock to bare bottom then add 1" of CaribSea special blend aragonite sand about 2mm to quickly cycle my tank provided the ammonia and nitrite are 0 with a hint of nitrate?
>>(Scratching head here..)  Are you asking if the sand will cycle your tank?  Or are you asking if you can cycle the tank with the sand in it?  Or are you asking if you can cycle with the live rock in the tank?  Are you adding one inch of sand (1")?  Or 2 millimeters (mm)?
>Also I plan on leaving my lights on 3 hours and the rest off to cut down on algae but gain coralline.
>>I see no need to worry about lighting during the cycling process.
>Should my skimmer be on at this time?
>>Yes.
>Or at what stage should I fire the skimmer?      
>>Ok, since I'm not sure what, exactly, you're asking, I'll just jump in and give my suggestions.  First, IF the rock is really cured then yes, you can go ahead and put it in your tank (assuming you're also positive it harbors no pests such as Mantis), then add the sand to the desired depth, then add some raw shrimp to begin a cycle.  If the rock is really well-cured, then it should quickly handle the ammonia and nitrites, and the sand will become seeded during this process.  Since you haven't mentioned it, I'll suggest you look up information on site about refugiums, deep sand beds (DSB), and natural nitrate reduction.  Good schtuff.  Should you decide to run a 'fuge, then you may decide to not run the skimmer, but during cycling it's a good idea.  I hope this helps, and best of luck!  Marina

Live Rock!  (7/2/03)
Can I use fully cured live rock to cycle my tank? or do I need to get partial cured and let the cycle occur? <Fully cured will be just fine it just speeds up the process.> I have a 120 gal FOWLR tank to start up. and also when is a good time to start the skimmer?<Right away!> if fully cured rock start it with substrate early? also will a white full spectrum and a blue actinic be ok for the live rock? <What kind of bulbs are they, if they are just SO I would upgrade to VHO or add a couple more bulbs.  Cody>