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FAQs on Olde Glass, Metal Frame, Slate Bottom... Aquarium Repair
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MetaFrame Aquariums 8/16/07
Dear Crew,
August 15, 2007
I occasionally search for old MetaFrame fish tanks (aquariums) and for
information concerning their repair, especially trying to effectively bond glass
to slate. The best solution came from your WetWebMedia, so I have been reading
and researching your site.
<Okay>
I still have my first (and favorite) 29-gallon slate bottom tank, which I was
given in 1973 and still use. Since then, I have acquired at least a dozen old
tanks (all different sizes), several of them with slate bottoms. I fancy myself
repairing them, gathering lids, lights, hoods, etc. and selling them or making
gifts of them as "retro" tanks, which seem to have some interest among fish
hobbyists. My wife fancies me getting them the heck out of the house, along with
all the other "treasures" I have "collected" over the years. Can't blame her.
She needs room for her "treasures", after all.
<Neat!>
In reading your questions concerning the black adhesive used for the old
MetaFrame, I have learned a couple of things.
1. To remove the black goop you must heat it. One way to do that is to put the
tank in your oven and put it on a low heat, the lower the better. Then just
watch until the goop starts to get warm and gummy.
Do not overheat, as the glass will break. Be careful not to burn yourself when
removing the tank - the metal gets hot, too! If the tanks is too big for the
oven, use a hair dryer. Much milder, less dangerous, and easier to handle than a
propane torch, f'sure. And, it works fine.
Takes longer, but much safer. I am no expert, but would not recommend "hot
tanking"; that seems unnecessarily harsh. And it may create new problems.
2. Silicone does not bond to slate. Period. That is probably why MetaFrame did
not use silicone. I have not been able to find out what the black goop is, as I
would prefer to use it, if I could. It is possible that you could get an
adequate seal between glass and slate using silicone, but do not expect it to be
permanent, because...o, yes, silicone does not bond to slate. That is why the
best solutions to repairing a slate-bottom tank are: do not repair it and pawn
it off to someone like me as it is and get a different tank, or, (my personal
favorite) put a new piece of glass directly on top of the slate, and seal it to
the vertical glass walls with (100%) silicone. Duh!!! Sure wish I had thought of
this before trying several different bonding agents, including silicone, all to
no avail!
In closing, if anyone wants to "network" with me on buying, selling, trading, or
just swapping lies about MetaFrame aquariums and associated hardware, please get
in touch. As I learn more about the history of the company, the bonding
characteristics of glass, slate, and various adhesives, I will gladly share
that. I am not in this to be a capitalist, but hate to give away such fine old
aquariums. And it is fun!
I am more interested in learning and puttering than anything else.
<Great Mike>
Thank you for your time, and, if you are going to post any or all of this
correspondence, please feel free to edit it as much as desired. I am not sure
what you would consider relevant, and I do tend to go on and on. And, God Bless
Elvis Presley (January 8, 1935 - August 16, 1977).
Michael L. Stewart
CactusMike@bigfoot.com
(480) 650-8650
(((Note to self: check this website for a reply. Otherwise, what is the
point???)))
<Heee! I am going to take your offer as noting that we should go ahead and post
your contact info. Will archive on a new subFAQ re "olde tanks". Thank you for
sharing your passion, and techniques! Bob Fenner>
Old Aquarium, sell... or repair? 2/22/07
I visited a local pet store and inquired about repairing a 55 gallon
aquarium that has been sitting in my mother's garage for 20 years. I am 63
years old and I remember my father having fish in that tank when I was a
child. Obviously, it is close to 70 years old; it is on a metal stand with
wheels.
<Neat!>
The aquarium has a slate bottom with drain hole that appears to be in good
shape. The problem is that one of the larger glass sides was broken and
needs to be replaced. I have considered selling it in a garage sale or just
giving it away, but the pet shop owner indicated that it might be of some
value.
<Yes; might be>
He said that he doubts that a replacement glass would be advisable thinking
it would probably leak and thought it might be better to use it as a
terrarium. It occurs to me that if I installed glass of appropriate
thickness and was successful with sealant application, the aquarium should
be adequate to maintain fish. What would you advise.
<Mmm, well, unless you're in a big hurry, I'd "shop" it around... see what
it might sell for... And if all you're interested in is having a useful
system... I'd trade it in for the money and buy a brand new outfit. OTOH, I
do like antiques in the field... so, repairing it might be the way to go...
with "matching" technology (likely Pecora sealant...)>
If I were to install a new glass, could I purchase the glass from a local
retail glass dealer?
<Mmm, yes... if this were the route you settled on>
What thickness would you recommend.
<Likely 3/8 or 1/4" plate... The latter likely being what it is otherwise
made of>
Also, is it your opinion that the aquarium I have described would be of
value as an antique?
<Yes... And I do encourage you to contact an old (okay, middle-aged...)
friend, Gary Bagnall... of ZooMed... who is about the most "in to" person of
such gear that I know... Have cc'ed him and another hobbyist/collector
friend, Chuck Rambo here... And maybe try a pic or two... on eBay...>
Thank you for your assistance,
Charlie Marsh
Jacksonville, Arkansas
<Welcome, Bob Fenner>
Old Glass, Slate Tank repair, speculations re fish physiology re env.
nitrogenous compounds 2/18/07
Dear Crew,
<<Hello, Anne. Tom with you today.>>
I recently purchased a 55 gallon slate bottom aquarium. I've scraped the old
silicone out, cleaned and resealed the tank three times. I still have a
major leak. The slate is flaking. Could it be leaking the water? It's very
hard to lift the tank to tell where the leak is coming from. I am also not
sure that I can safely dismantle the tank.
<<This one’s a little out of my area, Anne, but if the slate’s flaking, you
won’t get proper adhesion with the silicone. Both the slate and glass must
be perfectly clean and, in the case of the slate, sealed, in order for the
silicone to bond properly. Now, my shortcoming, if you will, is in knowing
how to properly seal the slate in order to get the bond that you’ll need to
prevent leakage. I would hazard a guess here that you’ll need a clear epoxy
sealer that’s, obviously, suitable for aquarium use but, beyond this, I’m at
a loss to provide any hard information.>>
I have been researching fish for ten years and am hoping to get a PhD in
aquatic animal medicine.
<<A commendable goal/pursuit.>>
I haven't started college yet and am having trouble understanding a few
things. I understand pH and the measuring of Hydrogen ions. What I don't
understand is the direct effect pH and ammonia have on fish. Is it merely
the fact that fish don't come into contact with ammonia and nitrates in the
wild?
<<From an evolutionary standpoint, I would offer that this is, in part, the
case. Fish have adapted, around the globe, to a variety of differing
conditions which is why we don’t have “one-size-fits-all” water parameters
in the hobby. The most obvious example is the difference between saltwater
and freshwater life but variations in pH in different areas of the world are
certainly other cases in point.>>
Does it affect their bodily functions?
<<Absolutely. Ammonia, for example, adversely affects (burns) the gill
tissues causing swelling/damage which inhibits/prohibits the uptake of
oxygen and the expulsion of ammonia. The result is suffocation. Likewise,
nitrites bond with oxygen-transporting hemoglobin in the blood resulting,
effectively, in the same thing, i.e. suffocation. pH fluctuations can cause
damage to the skin, eyes and gill membranes as well as altering, with
sometimes fatal consequences, the very narrow range of the pH of the fishes’
blood.>>
From what I understand it's not that fish can't handle the levels it's how
quickly it changes.
<<This is true, to an extent, with pH levels. Ammonia and nitrite levels,
ideally, should never even be measurable but fish can/will adapt to pH
levels outside of their particular norms as long as these remain stable. The
current thinking in the hobby now is to adapt our fish to the pH levels of
whatever our primary source of water – tap water, for instance – might be.
Attempting to chemically alter the pH is, all too often, the recipe for a
disastrous change in the pH levels of our tanks. Better to maintain stable
pH conditions outside of the “ideal” than to set the stage for a potential
calamity. (This almost always takes the form of a plummet in pH levels due
to insufficient buffering.)>>
I know some fish can survive with gradual acclimation to abnormal levels. I
have a bad feeling that I've got things very messed up!
<<I don’t think you have things “messed up”, Anne. These aren’t easy
concepts to get a handle on. The important thing to do is take it slowly.
Lots of folks become overwhelmed by the volume of information and throw up
their hands in despair. Narrowing your focus to very specific topics until
you’re comfortable with each one will help in avoiding “information
overload”.>>
Please help a very obsessed and very confused fish fanatic.
Thank you so very much,
Anne ( I hope to one day be as smart and knowledgeable as all of you)
<<Well, in my case that might be taking a step backward but, for all of us,
thank you. I’ve got the feeling that you’ll far surpass my knowledge with a
little more time and research. Best regards. Tom>>
Leaky MetaFrame Aquarium 3/19/07
I have searched your website to see if there were any specific tips on how
to re-seal an old stainless steel frame MetaFrame aquarium and while there were
some tips, I didn't find anything specific enough.
<Let's add here>
I have a 10-gallon MetaFrame that leaks all over, and I need to re-seal the
entire thing.
<Yes>
I saw that the black linseed oil
<This was/is just a solvent for the "Pecora" tar-like substance>
or whatever sealant used back then should be replaced with silicone, and that
silicone won't adhere to this old sealant.
<Correct>
How do I get the old sealant out and remove the glass pieces so I can clean
everything thoroughly enough for the silicone to adhere?
<Mmm, no need to remove the glass... Removing the old sealant can be a chore...
some folks with lots of nerve and good eye-hand coordination can use a propane
torch (outdoors) and a wing tip to spread the flame, to soften, loosen the old
material... and a sturdy putty knife to remove most all... Otherwise, digging at
this with hand tools, single-edged razor blades is what works...>
(They're really stuck in there...) And, after cleaning the glass and putting it
back in, how do I apply the new sealant and where do I put it to ensure a good
seal between the frame and the glass pieces?
<In the corners, all inside seams, including the upper inside edge of the
frame... I would use black Silastic... to match... easier flow...>
Do I put this sealant inside and out?
<Only on the inside>
And, should I remove the slate bottom too or can I just run sealant around the
bottom edges?
<This latter... after all the "tar" is removed, and all the surfaces cleaned up
with a solvent (my faves are Xylene or Toluene)>
Any help you can give would be great, I don't want to break the glass or do this
project more than once if I can help it!
Thank you,
Jessica
<Mmm, or there's always selling this relic (on eBay or such) and using the
proceeds to buy a new all-glass... which is what I would do if all you're
interested in is having an aquarium that doesn't leak. Bob Fenner>
Re: Leaky MetaFrame Aquarium 3/19/07
Bob-
Thank you so much for your help on this! Your tips were specific and very
helpful. I do have a new all-glass aquarium that's low-maintenance, but I
love a project, and I like these "relics" too.
<Heeee! Are you talking about me or the tank!?>
This will be my second one.
Thank you again.
Jessica
<Welcome my friend... Oh, and if you have time, would you please consider making
a few images, perhaps penning a short article re your experiences here? I will
gladly help you place such. Bob Fenner>
Re: Leaky MetaFrame Aquarium - 03/20/07
I will do that. It will be a little while before all is up and running, but
as soon as it is, I will send a couple of pics and a letter.
Thanks again!
<Do appreciate this... As am SURE many folks will who follow your input. BobF>
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Fixed Metaframe 4/16/07
Hi Bob!
You gave me some help about a month ago, suggesting some ways that I
could seal up my leaky Metaframe aquarium. You asked me to send pics
when it was done and it is...so here are the pics!
<A very nice job indeed; including an 'olde' stand!>
I cleaned the entire thing, scraped all of the old sealant out of the
cracks, cleaned the glass with both acetone and then glass cleaner, and
then I used aquarium-grade silicone and sealed up all of the edges.
(Using the old water on the finger trick, I was able to press the
silicone down in to the cracks for a good seal.) I then filled it with
water to check for leaks, there weren't any after 2 days so I drained it
and put it on the stand that I also restored, and it's been humming
along ever since. I wanted to let it run a little before adding fish,
but in a couple of days, I'm adding those and this project will be
complete!
Thank you again for you help, your website is a real asset to the
aquarist community.
Jessica Beebe
<Thank you for sharing! Bob Fenner> |
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Repair of slate bottomed tanks 9/13/05
G'day Bob
<Peter>
It seems like you know a little bit about slate bottomed tanks. From what
I can find out they were originally sealed with a tar - linseed oil mix
(although I'm not sure if the whole tank was sealed with that, or just the
bottom). Seems though that most folks try and reseal them with silicone,
which doesn't stick to potentially oily surfaces very well.
<Correct... have to absolutely clean>
I have a half
dozen 55 gallon tanks that would be nice to get sealed. Am I better off
to try and reseal them with tar-oil, or clean them off with Palmolive and
try resealing again with 100% silicone? Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.
Thanks for any help.
Cheers
Peter Unmack
<Well, the semi-purist in me would like to encourage you to go with the old
tar-seal... the actual lazy person I am would clean up the tar, lay a thick
silicone bead down/twixt the angle of the glass walls and bottom, and the
practical person would insert a piece of glass in the inside and silicone that
in over the slate... Bob Fenner>
Removing Black Tarry Sealant (Chuck's go)
I was given a 45 gal aquarium which has a chromed metal frame. The aquarium
leaks around the bottom in several places and I was considering removing the
bottom and using silicon to reseal.
The glass and slate like bottom are all sealed with a black tarry type of
sealant. The sealant has dried and hardened. How does one go about softening
the sealant and removing it?
< I collect antique aquariums and have a few suggestions for you. Many of these
tanks actually leaked when new. They recommended that you fill them with hot
water and let them sit for a few days. The putty softens up and the weight of
the water reseals the tank. Try this first before you tear the tank down. Once
the tank is full of water they stay water tight for years. Try and find the hood
that goes with them. When they are all together they look unique by today's
standards and are still quite functional. If you decide to tear it down you will
need an additional piece of glass for the bottom. Sometimes the silicon does not
stick to the slate so you have to cut an additional piece of glass for the
bottom and them reseal the tank with silicon. Make sure that you use the silicon
that is made for aquariums. The silicon you buy in the hardware store has
fungicides in it that are harmful to fish.-Chuck>
Denny Earle
Removing Black Tarry Sealant (Bob's go)
I was given a 45 gal aquarium which has a chromed metal frame. The aquarium
leaks around the bottom in several places and I was considering removing the
bottom and using silicon to reseal.
The glass and slate like bottom are all sealed with a black tarry type of
sealant. The sealant has dried and hardened. How does one go about softening
the sealant and removing it?
<Good questions. First, an important note re this tank and the prospective
project of removing, re-doing the sealant: Do strongly consider NOT doing this
and INSTEAD saving or selling the tank as is... it's a collector's item that has
more value as is than as a re-done fish tank. Now, if you want to "fix it",
there is a possibility that gingerly heating the old sealant (with a gas/propane
torch... careful) and cutting with hand tools (putty knives, tile knife, single
edge razor blades with a holder...) might do the job, along with cleaning up the
residue with an organic solvent (e.g. toluene, xylene)... OR you might have
enough seal to just glom on over the existing tar material with the silicone,
encasing it if you will... do all the joints, not just the bottom here. But my
choice is really to save or sell this "relic" as an antique. Really. Bob Fenner>
Denny Earle
Rebuilding old tank with steel frame
I need help, <Hi Theresa, MacL here with you today.> I'm rebuilding a 100
gallon tank. It has a steel frame, when I took out the old glass, I had to take
out some kind of tar. <Theresa that's a very very old tank if I am picturing it
correctly and yes it might be something similar to tar. New glass tanks are put
together with silicone instead.> I was told that it has to be hot tanked and NO
ONE in Portland does that anymore. <I had to look up to be sure what hot tanked
was and here's what I got. "Typically you send it out to be "hot tanked," boiled
in caustic soda. This will remove all of the rust. It will also open any
impending pinholes if the rust has gone that far. It will also remove any tin
coating on the inside which was supposed to prevent rust in the first place."
That's for the steel corners of the tank Theresa. And their point is, I'm afraid
that they are all concerned your tank is going to leak.>
I already have the new glass, and have broke the front panel (have to buy a new
piece). What I want to know is there another way to make this tank water tight
and not have it pop. <Well I was sitting here thinking about it, what about
putting a new tank, or glass pieces inside the old tank. Totally sealed with
silicone? You'd have to use all new glass and just set it INSIDE the older tank
so you can use the stand and keep the look.> The glass guy seems to think that
I need to get it hot tanked or just buy a new tank. I don't have that kind of
money. <I know it gets so expensive.> I have had this tank for at least 15
years, just wanted new glass, already have built a new cabinet stand for it.
Please help, is there any other way! <The insert is the only way I can think to
go without just totally scrapping the tank Theresa because there is no way to
tell how strong the steel is. Good luck and let me know what you decide, MacL>
Thank you Theresa
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