Queen Angel Hybridization... happens     7/29/06 Hi Bob. I'm at it again trying to get an ID of a fish I picked up. A pic will follow in the upcoming week, but for now a little background. First off, the fish is definitely some sort of Holacanthus. It is a bright yellow overall, with some blue and black markings on the head, caudal fin, dorsal fin, and chin. The tail is yellow and white. The back half of the fish is a duskier yellow, not dislike the pattern of a Clarion. The fish has been in captivity in a customer's tank for several years, and had been traded in to a LFS due to a move. I've looked through Angelfishes & Butterflyfishes by Scott Michael, and I've found a few pictures that make sense. Page 290, Bottom Left of a Clarion - the headband is almost exact. Now what gets me is the color, and the crescent shaped fins. The other photo that I see resemblance to is on page 286, bottom left of a Hybrid Blue x Queen. I've talked to a few associates in the trade, and I've gotten a bunch of mixed responses, ranging from a Townsend to a Hybrid Queen x Rock Beauty. In any case, the fish eats like a champ and has a fantastic personality. I just wish I could figure out what it is. As always your input is greatly valued, Best Regards, Joe Russo p.s. I've gotta get some pics to you of my A. arcuatus. It eats from my hand, and not my corals either :) Now if I could just find a Golden Hawk I'd be set. <Looking forward to the pix. Bob Fenner>

Re: Queen Angel Hybridization  8/3/06 Bob, please find attached 2 pictures of the fish. Joe <Mmm... good pix... I have been told two principal things re such "xanthic" appearing Queens... that they're just a color variety... That they're a cross twixt H. ciliaris and H. bermudensis. Have seen this sort of coloring in the wild and captive specimens as well... my pix of same are posted on WWM... but I know not otherwise. Thank you for sending this along. Am going to try to send to Dr. Randall and Dr. Gerald Allen for their input (much greater re Pomacanthids... all fishes than mine). Bob Fenner>

Re: Queen Angel Hybridization   8/4/06
Bob, any idea on the value of the fish?
<Mmm, about the same as a juvenile Blue of about the same size>
Do you see what I'm seeing with the Clarion head bar as in Angelfishes by S. Michael?
<Yes, but assuredly not a cross with the congener across the isthmus>
A Caribbean collector friend of mine suggested it could possibly be a Queen x Rock Beauty as they have been coming out of Belize lately, though
he hasn't seen pictures.
<Don't know that this cross actually occurs>
The fish is 5" for what it's worth...Unfortunately, the blue and yellow didn't turn up that well in the photos on the dorsal fin, chin and tail...
thanks again,
Joe Russo
<Is a beauty. Bob Fenner, who is hoping for a response from Jack Randall here>

- More on Blue Angels -
Oh how wonderful life is with aquaria in hand and doing life's work, without shoving it back to you, and saying here take this you... I have to ask cheers j- are you female or male not that I care but curious!!! <Last time I checked, I was a male - J is short for Jason.> your advice {splendid indeed master splinter} ! I did as you requested and ordered bobs book the conscientious marine aquarist, should be here Monday! <Excellent, I think you will enjoy it.> I really have a question about my blue angel, or my queen angel you see the blue angel has lines that curve back toward the tail and the one I have although 4 inches in length just body not tail look to be straight, and another thing that leads me to believe it is a queen is the dorsal fin from front to back is neon blue as is the fin from front to back on the underside of him is neon blue, and from what I've been reading the adult blue has no blue color! <Hmm... that doesn't happen for quite a while... give it some time and you will see. More on the Holocanthus angels here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/holacanthus/index.htm > I paid 68 bucks for this blue angel so they say, but did I get a blue or did I get a queen? <Hard to say without a photo - I'm guessing by your description that this fish still has it's juvenile colors.> if I got a queen I need to hurry and get a 400 or 5 hundred gal tank right? <No hurry, they don't grow that quickly but either way, both of these fish get considerably larger than four inches and if you want to keep it for a long time, a larger tank will be in your future.
Cheers, J -- >

Queen Angel
Just wanted to say Thanks for all the great info on the Queen angel. I am going to purchase a 3" (or so) juvenile for my 220 FO, and I wanted to see if there was a good way to distinguish the Queen from a Townsend. Is a Townsend's markings just a subtle mix of the Queen and Blue? Any definite things for the untrained eye to look for?<Not really they are pretty distinguishable>
I hear there have been some of both offered locally as Queens these days, so I wanted to try & educate myself on the differences. I was in a LFS today and they tried to sell me what was clearly a blue angel as a Queen.<Yea that is either plain dishonesty or lack of knowledge on the LFS part>
Thanks again for your time!<good luck, IanB> 

Re: Is this a Queen angel?
Dear Bob,
<Alan>
I own this angel.  I've been considering giving it up because I'm not sure if it's a Queen angel or not.
When I bought it they said it's a blue angel but it was very cute.  Sometime it seem like a Queen angel though.
<Whichever it is or a hybrid, it is gorgeous, and in apparently good health. I would definitely keep it. Bob Fenner>
Alan