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Cupramine leeching 7/30/15
Hello almighty saltwater gods. I am not worthy. So I was thinking.....what kinds of materials and what nots can hold Cupramine in a tank and cause the testing level to appear not to rise and/or then possibly leech back into the water when conditions change?
<Oh; this list is long... am sure one could use the Net, but am so olde that I'd be looking in a CRC Manual for common molecules likely to form in a marine aquarium habitat. Is cupric chloride, copper carbonate have a higher solubility product constant?>
For example, small clay pots, while they make nice caves, are porous. And can bits of uneaten food soak the medicine up enough to cause a problem?
<Mmm; not as much as the seawater itself, or "fresher" carbonate substrate and rock.... fired clay pots are somewhat chemically inert>
I know to remove uneaten food but I was thinking about using a seaweed clip and in that case, the food would spend more time in the water than flakes or Mysis. My bicolor blenny, usually fat and happy, is eating little.
<?>
I am currently having what seems to be a bit of trouble getting my Cupramine level above 3ish. All of my parameters are good and I only have a pre seeded filter, heater, two little clay pots and an airs stone in a bare bottom 20 long. I am treated a bicolor blenny and a royal gramma. I have been slowly raising the Cupramine level over the last week and I want to be sure I am at a good therapeutic level so I'm not wasting my time and unnecessarily stressing my fish. Also, I don't want to prolong their Ich misery. It is/was a slight case to my eyes. I did not follow the directions, dosing wise, because I have read it is better to slowly raise the Cupramine level, especially for the sensitive blenny.
Since the white spots, of which there were only two on the blenny's top fin, and one on the gramma' head, are not the actual parasite themselves, is their absence after or during treatment even a fairly reliable sign that treatment is working? Shouldn't the spots disappearing mean nothing more than the human equivalent of a scab falling off?
<Mmm; these spots may be from irritation of some sort... mucus accumulating.... Even Trematodes (seeing them btw very commonly here in Curacao the last week diving>
I have read that Cupramine may kill Ich at levels as low as .25 but I don't want to take the chance of under treating,
<Ah yes; and deep-embedded parasites, ones on fishes w/ thick mucus; even some "Crypt ""races" can be resistant to copper exposure>
particularly since my bicolor has not been eating well. I think he should be ok eating only a little so long as I can complete the treatment in a reasonable amount of time, say three weeks total. I am using a SeaChem test. My ammonia is good and I have been doing 20% water changes every three days, matching the temp, ph, SG, and Cupramine level in the new water with that of the tank prior to adding.
<Should test and replace the copper every day>
Besides that, the tank was fully cycled prior to treatment. I will remove Cupramine after treatment and let my tank remain fallow for 72 days total.
Thanks again.
<I and you very likely appreciate the vagaries of copper use... Hence my swerving allegiance to Quinine compounds (and always prevention via dips/baths, careful livestock selection, optimized, stable environment, good nutrition....) over recent years. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cupramine leeching... plus copy f'/Trematodes 8/3/15
Thanks again. My question regarding the seaweed clip....what I should have said was...Will the seaweed absorb the Cupramine and then maybe leech back into the water?
<It will absorb and re-lease very little copper. Not a worry. Again; there is some cupric ion in all life.... it, the element is an essential, albeit "micro" nutrient>
But before I read your reply I began to realize that my babies probably don't have ich at all. I think you are right about this being a case of Trematodes. My blenny's two fin spots have never changed location, only changed a bit in shape. I think I assumed ich mostly because of the scratching both fish were doing before I hospitalized them.
<Ahh! Saw a BUNCH of Flukes on fishes last week in Curacao.... more on more species than I've ever encountered in the wild. Tellingly, much more prevalent on fishes resident in some "environmentally modified" (polluted) locations>
I don't ask questions I don't want the answer to...so I will, in the future, use a quinine compound with good aeration as you suggest.
<Heeeeee!>
But......since I have been putting them through two weeks of Cupramine already, I think I will continue the course at least another week as a preventative measure (unless, of course, you tell me to do otherwise). I think it would still be wise to leave my display tank fallow for 72 days since I can't be sure ich isn't there somewhere.
<Well; not to bum you out, and ignore your self-admonition above, but Crypt is to degrees most every where there are tropical marine fishes>
After the Cupramine treatment is over, I think I should remove the Cupramine and dose PraziPro?
<Sure; or could do now. The two compounds as "mix-able">
Does a freshwater bath fit into this equation at some point? I have a bicolor blenny and a royal gramma.
<Better a FW bath, pH adjusted w/ formalin and aeration... see WWM re such SOPs and their specific use in eradicating external Trematodes>
Interesting that you saw an increase in Trematodes in the wild as I don't believe I have ever dealt with this pest in the last 15 years of fish keeping.
<Mmm; very common on (imported) angels, butterflies, tangs..... sharks>
I've dealt with ich before, and the spots always visibly disappeared after a couple of days in copper. I think I blamed my poor little clay pots for rendering my Cupramine ineffective, but all along,
<I have used hundreds of gallons of this fine product in commercial settings. It does precipitate (disappear) by about half every day... interacting with natural and synthetic seawater... MUCH more so if carbonaceous substrate/s is/are present. HAS to be assessed (tested for) and "topped up" daily or more often>
I misdiagnosed my problem. The lesson is always the same.....quarantine.
Thanks for your wealth of information and patience.
<A pleasure to relate/share. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cupramine leeching 8/4/15
Thank you, thank you. Now I have a clear course of action.
<Ahh! Am always (most of the time really) querulous whether I/we provide sufficient direction, background to aid others in resolute action>
I will have to wait a day or two until I can be home all day to execute the plan and observe the results. I have definitely learned a lot from this, including a new appreciation for tank size and aggression.
<Outstanding>
My gramma was fine with the bicolor blenny in the 55 gallon tank, but in the 20 with few hiding spots....not so much. I had to get a tank divider
after a particularly scary lip lock between the two. Since I witnessed the gramma seek out and stalk the blenny, I have placed the blame upon him. I think I will be putting the blenny into the display tank a couple of days before the gramma. I know blennies can be aggressive too, but so far, not mine.
One more question......".crypt is to degrees most everywhere tropical fish are".....Are you saying that eradicating ich in my main system is unlikely even after 72 days fallow?
<Unfortunately; yes. Some residual, resident population is likely to remain... not to be (too) teleological, but "waiting" for environmental, nutritional, social.... strain/stress, weakened "immunity" of host fishes.... to manifest itself as infestation>
I've always known this a possibility, and now I am wondering if I should just put the two fish back into the main system after the dip.
<Is likely what I would do...>
Rather blenny, then gramma to follow. I don't think the hospital is a particularly great place for either one of them. But still, I am willing to keep them there for the full 72 if you think it beneficial.
<There is a "tipping point" where isolation and what it entails encompasses/overwhelms its benefits... as opposed to being placed, left in a more stable setting>
Side note....I was wondering, in your diving experience, which fish was the most unusual, rare, or surprising one you every encountered?
<Heeeeee! So many!! Likely a couple of great hammerheads I met up with at about 200 feet doing a bounce dive in the Red Sea (looking for some wrasses for a friend; Tanaka-san)>
Thank you, thank you. -Alyson
<Certainly welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cupramine leeching 8/8/15
Thanks again. So I did a freshwater dip with Methylene blue (as I was able to get this at the LFS). Formalin, I was only able to find online and I did order it, but wanted to get started asap. He jumped around quite a bit. I did get worried as I have read that trying to jump is a sign of distress, and I know blennies are generally sensitive, so he was probably in the solution maybe 5 minutes. I am hoping that the Cupramine for just under three weeks and the small amount of time with the meth blue worked on his Trematodes.
<... The freshwater may, but copper and Methylene Blue neither do really.
See WWM re Trematodes; their treatment with purposeful Anthelminthics>
I'm sure I will let you know!!!! He is back in his DT, peeking around live rocks. I want to make him fat and happy before I put his frenemy, the Royal gramma back in too.
The last email we discussed entrenched crypt populations, and the possible futility of fallow periods. I will observe these two fish, once they are both in the 55 together and consider a complete tank overhaul should I suspect undesirable critters lay waiting. I can do this because I have a spare 90 gallon laying empty about my home. I just don't care for its location as it is in a room we don't frequent as much as the 55. This is why I started up the 55 and not the 90. Too many rooms, too much cleaning, tanks and otherwise. Of course, I always knew having both tanks eventually running would be a matter of time, as this is quite the addiction.
Thank you, thank you. Alyson R
<W. B>
Re: Cupramine leeching... Poss. fluke on Blenny, trtmt. 9/9/15
Hello again. It has been about 6 weeks since we discussed my crypt-turned-flukes problem and all is (mostly) well in my little piece of the ocean. Here's the thing....my bicolor blenny, who seemed ok for the first 5 weeks after his Cupramine (misdiagnosis) then freshwater dip, is flashing a bit.
<Mmm; some flashing is natural>
Over the last week, I have been looking for signs of ich, and it appears to me that he may have a fluke issue again. He has an irregular, small spot on his dorsal fin, in the same place as last time. Maybe he never fully eradicated the original flukes, or they could be in my system. I am a bit reluctant to freshwater dip again, as he didn't like it last time, but I have the formalin you recommended and will likely do this. I have some conflicting info regarding dipping blennies. I have read that they should
not be dipped, and you recommended me to dip them in previous conversations.
<Though small (unless very small specimens), blennies, blennioid fishes are slimy (again; unless quite sick) and capable of withstanding dipping procedures. Better this than extended periods of isolation/quarantine and the stress and starvation there that all too often leads to their loss>
Of course, I could hospitalize and treat with PraziPro. Being human, I would prefer the shorter course of action...i.e......dipping. I do love this little guy, named Sam I Am, and don't want to lose him, especially to my impatience. I got him as a little guy, maybe less than an inch, and he is over three inches now, gorgeous coloring, delightfully peaceful benevolent dictator of my tank. By the way....returning him to my display from the hospital tank a couple of weeks before the Royal gramma totally established a serene pecking order, even better than before treatment! The two used to
tolerate each other, now they swim together. So.....to dip or not to dip?
<Up to you; I would... oh, and look to see if the "spot" releases, and gently pinch it off with your fingers if not>
Thanks for your enduring patience and advice. Alyson R.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

fluke update; plus Prazi, Pomacanthid dis f's 5/13/14
Hi Bob
<Robert>
I believe it is about a week since we last spoke. Since then, about 8 days ago, I have used Prazi pro on my tank, turning off my skimmer and uv light.
Both angelfish, the blue face, and French angel, whom each had one clouded eye, have improved 100 percent. Both eyes are now clear, and they are both eating.
<Ahh!>
So I believe it is safe to say, I did have a fluke infestation,
<VERY common w/ wild-caught angels... Should ALWAYS be treated prophylactically by importers... The better wholesalers do this... sometimes a few of the collectors>
that probably killed the last 4 angelfish I had in the last 8 weeks. My plan is to run it a few more days, totaling ten days, and then pulling it out getting skimmer and bio pellet reactor back online.
My question is, the blueface, although he is eating, and both of his eyes are now clear, looks to have some type of abrasion under his pectoral fins.
Looks kind of like someone took a scalpel, and removed about a 1/2 inch by 1/2 portion of his skin.
<Perhaps residual... from the Flukes and/or treatment>
My first guess was the flukes ate away at that area, but in reality this pretty much happened after 2-3 days of treating the tank. My next guess was some type of secondary bacterial infection. After scrolling the web a couple of days, I really do not know, and therefore I am unsure if I let it go, or pull him out and use some type of antibiotic on him.
<I'd leave off on further med.s>
Is this common with flukes, especially after treatment has already commenced?
Thanks
<Not uncommon. BobF>

Praziquantel and AmQuel 1/11/14
Hi WetWebMedia Team,
I have a Vrolik's Wrasse that has been in my tank for over two years. In the past month his abdomen has become quite swollen.
I am guessing it is worms but not sure how he got them as all other fish are healthy.
<Mmm, might be something it ate... in the system... that doesn't "agree with it"... worms, cnidarians...>
I have removed him to a quarantine tank and started treatment with Praziquantel and Metronidazole.

The tank is only 12 gallons and I want to add AmQuel to control any ammonia spikes but am worried the AmQuel may bind the medications. I have not been able to find any clear guidance on the internet so of course I am turning to Wet Web for advice. thanks in advance. Regards, Doug C
<As far as I'm aware these two can be used together. If in doubt, I'd write the manufacturers re. Bob Fenner>

Re: Microscopic images 9/2/13
Bob,
Thanks..I appreciate this:) These were all obtained from freshwater dips.
Please let me know if I need to change the sizing/resolution. I do have quite a few images so I will send them in separate emails. Any information you can give me would be very appreciated! Thanks again!!
Jennifer
<... The res. looks fine for what you're imagine here; though it would help to state the magnification per pic... The first two (84, 85)... might be just scales. 26 looks to me like a diatom, 29 is likely a rotifer, and 44, 45 look like Monogenes (flukes) to me. Bob Fenner>

Diatom

Rotifer

Flukes

Re: Microscopic images 9/2/13
Bob,
Here's more images.
<Some neat ones; 50, 13, and 12 are flukes... the last for sure; showing the opisthaptor. 59, 60... some sort of crustacean; maybe an amphipod judging from the legs... 79 and 81 are skin cells (and a color/chromatophore)... on a ctenoid scale (you can see the serrated edge downward in this view)
I was wondering if you happen to see any information on the new research into garlic extract (Allium) being effective in controlling Neobenedenia eggs?
<Not in recent times; but I haven't been searching for it/this. I'd take a look on a large database. See WWM re doing such searches. Bob Fenner>
Jennifer

Oh yes... Fluke

Crustacean; amphipod?

Scale, skin cells, chromatophore

Re: Microscopic images, Fluke ID, treatment input 9/2/13
Thanks Bob for the great feedback! I do have more images but they are on my microscope. The fluke I identified as Neobenedenia girellae.
<May be>
I could be off base on that. I've been dealing with this fluke since March mostly using PraziPro to no avail. I came across research from China stating that Praziquantel is not as effective against this species of flukes as others.
<Interesting. There are other Anthelminthics... as you likely are aware>
This led me to new research (published in August) stating the effectiveness of garlic extract and Asaragopsis taxicormis against marine flukes. They are both very interesting reads. Albeit preliminary perhaps promising.
Thanks again for identifying these images!! Oh and feel free to use them if the need arises.
Jen
<Ah, thank you. Bob Fenner>
Re: Microscopic images 9/2/13
I am aware of other Anthelminthics, however, most are harder on the fish than PraziPro. Are there any that you would recommend?
Jen
<Mmm, best to refer you to what is posted/archived on WWM; and maybe one ref.:
http://www.int-res.com/articles/dao/10/d010p039.pdf
Bob Fenner>
Re: Microscopic images 9/3/13
Very interesting article!! Thank you:)
Jen
<Welcome! Bob>

FW dipping 3/28/13, flukes, Prazi use in DTs/Reefs 3/28/13
Hi crew! I believe I have some of my fish have gill flukes in the main tank. I have a Flame Centropyge in a QT and did a dip on him today....holy cow!!! It was disgusting! He had 20-30 flukes on him and I never saw them on the fish. Anyway, I want to dip the fish from the main tank but I don't know if any of them are contraindicated for freshwater dips. Occupants are:
Solorensis Wrasse, Canary Blenny, Hi Fin Red Banded Goby, Sleeper Goby and a Halichoeres leucoxanthus. The Canary Blenny and the Sleeper Goby have been scratching for over a week but no one has spots. Of course the dip will be pH, temp matched and aerated. Thank you! Jennifer
<These fishes/species are all good candidates for dipping, short immersion baths. Bob Fenner>
Re: FW dipping 3/28/13
Thank you, Bob
<Welcome Jenn! B>
Re: FW dipping 3/28/13
Hey Bob,
Just went to check on the Flame in the QT and he is hanging out at the top of the water right under the HOB filter. He's been in the QT 2 weeks. Is this normal considering all the flukes that came off of him? Jenn
<Not unusual behavior... small volumes, being stressed by handling... B>
FW dipping 3/29/13
Thanks Bob. I didn't think he would make it through the night but so far he has. I have a issue with the main tank. Ok, here goes: I think some of the fish in the main tank have flukes.
<Trematodes are very common (ubiquitous almost) on marine fishes... some are quite species, genus specific; others more general in their parasitism>
Reason I think this is 3 days after adding the Canary Blenny he started to scratch on the sand. A few days later the sleeper goby started to scratch, although he stopped a day or so later. Then the yellow wrasse scratched a couple of times. Now the Sol<o><not a>rensis, who is like a dog, is hiding a lot. They are all still eating, no spots and all but the Blenny are hiding. This has been going on for 8 days. I dipped the Canary Blenny and it looked like little worms were in the bucket but I can't be 100% sure they were worms. Also there were things that looked like little flukes, again not positive. I did dip the Goby today for 5 minutes. I didn't see anything come off him that I could identify except what I think is sand.
Finally, my question, should I 1. QT all the fish and treat with PraziPro?
2. FW dip fish, put back in main tank and keep watch? There is definitely something going on in the tank, I just can't figure out what it is. Sorry for the long email and thank you!
Jenn
<You could try the Prazi... toxic to all worms... B>
Re: FW dipping 3/29/13
I've read that some have used PraziPro in a reef tank with no repercussions,
<Mmm, not likely "none">
however that makes me nervous. Have you heard that it can affect the biological filter? My LFS told me that it could even though the PraziPro bottle says it won't. Your thoughts?
<... won't affect nitrifiers, denitrifiers directly... but killing off large numbers, biomass of Vermes can have bad consequences... One should be prepared to counter, or move intentional livestock. B>
Re: dipping 3/29/13
I do have quite a few Vermes, red, pink and yellow ones I'd like to keep.
So it looks like they are going into the QT with the Flame and all will get PraziPro. Thank you kind sir:) Jenn
<Ah, good, and welcome. BobF>
FW dipping; Prazi use 4/8/13
Hi crew! I am currently treating a Flame angelfish, Spotted Goby and a Yellow Wrasse in a QT with PraziPro for flukes. I started the treatment on Sunday. For two days the fish hid and did not eat. On day 3 they came out of hiding and their color returned. On day for the angelfish scratched and started losing color.
<Change the... oh, see this below>
On day five I did a 50% water change and put in a poly filter. Forgetting that the poly filter was in I redosed as per their instructions. Five hours later I realized my mistake and took out the I did not put in more PraziPro because I was afraid of an overdose. I did a freshwater dip for five minutes on the flame angelfish and got 10 flukes off him. My question:
should I do a water change and do the regimen again?
<Yes I would>
I know the second dose is to kill eggs. How many days after the first dose should the second dose go in?
<Two, three>
The instructions say 5-7 days but that can leave a big window for eggs to hatch and reinfest the tank/fish.
I ordered a microscope to start doing gill scrapings, etc.
Thank you for your help! Jennifer
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Re: FW dipping 4/8/13
Ok so I see where my mistake was. I dosed 5 days after..eggs had hatched.
Thanks Bob..you rock! :) Jennifer
<And roll! Cheers Jenn. BobF>
Flukes/PraziPro 4/22/13
Hi crew!
I have a Flame Angel in a 20 gal QT. He is being treated for flukes with PraziPro and it is not working.
<...Really? Are you sure these are flukes? Are you using the Prazi correctly? Is it an old/er package? I'd switch to another vermifuge. These are gone over on WWM>
Per an email from Hikari I did a 50% water change and dosed with PraziPro. I repeated this process 3 more times every 3 days. Yesterday was the third day after the last (4th) dose. This morning he is scratching.
<... could be scratching for other reasons>
I did a dip on him and flukes! I liked the PraziPro because the fish tolerated it well and ate.
What other treatment would you recommend? I have done a ton of research and it all points to PraziPro. I do have QuickCure (Formalin, Malachite Green) on hand. Could I use this a bath (30-60 minutes)?
<... not this long, a duration at full/ish strength, no. Toxic; very>
Will this kill any eggs that are on the fish?
<?... there are no such things>
I have been fighting these things since April 1. All other fish seem to be doing well. Thank you for your help! Jen
<More reading... less toxic chemical use. Bob Fenner>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 4/23/13
Hi Bob!
Yep, I'm sure it's flukes. There are about 4 of them in the bucket I dipped him in. I am saving them to look at once my microscope arrives.
<Ah good>
I bought the PraziPro from my LFS but there is no expiration date on it.
I'm going to order some online today. Maybe that's what the problem is. I don't want to use anything toxic on the fish.
<Maybe and good>
I've read that some species will lay eggs on the fish. I will keep researching. Thank you
<... didn't know this re Trematode repro.... BobF>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
Hi Bob,
<Jen>
I'm still battling flukes with the Flame Angel. It appears they are winning.
<? Are you absolutely sure these are flukes?>
At Hikari's advice the dosage was tripled and they haven't died. I did a freshwater dip on the Flame yesterday and didn't see anything come off. I saved the water to look at through the microscope, which arrived today. I did find "something" that looked like a fluke, but it on a slide and yuck!
It/they were moving. And they've been in freshwater for 24 hrs!
They appear to be encased perhaps an egg?
<Mmm>
Could/if I send it to you could you either tell me what I'm dealing with or refer me to someone that could identify these things? Thank you
Jen
<Do send along well resolved images. I "do" fish pathology... in fact the third gig of the newest Fish Health Conference is coming back up:
http://www.neaquatech.org/uneconference/
Bob Fenner>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
Hi Bob,
No, I'm not 100% positive this is flukes.
<Do appear to be>
The first time I dipped the Flame there were flukes. But that was a month ago and several doses of PraziPro ago. But he has faded color, hiding, hanging out in the return and at the top of the water. He's also stopped eating in the last 2 days.
<May be the effects of the Prazi...>
Do you think it's possible that since the dosage of PraziPro was tripled this sent the Trematodes into a reproducing frenzy?
<Don't know>
They seemed to have gotten worse since this dosing regimen.
<Time to switch to another/different vermifuge/anthelminthic... Maybe Levamisole if you can get i>
Here are a few pictures. I do have a video if that will help but I will have to send it separately. Thank you, Bob!
<Have seen enough here. B>

Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
Thanks Bob! I will work on getting the Levamisole. I don't know why the PraziPro is not working. According to Hikari they have yet to come across any Trematode that it won't kill.
<My experience matches theirs>
Thanks again, Bob:). Jen
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
Bob, sorry, forgot to ask. How much on dosage, frequency, etc. I've been researching this and can only find Levamisole being used for AEFW.
<Mmm, yes; the same; gone over here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/vermifugefaqs.htm
I'm ordering I today. Jen
<Cheers, BobF>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
So what could be my problem?
<... a few guesses: Something defective w/ the compound, some sort of resistance, some countered condition of your water>
This is the third bottle I've used. Is there any way to tell the type of Trematode?
<Mmm, yes; there are systematists in this field... morphological, genetic means>
... Microcotyle? (most infects gills of Angelfish).
If the PraziPro won't kill them then will anything else? Jen
<Hopefully so, yes. For sure formalin/formaldehyde... A biocide, as in "life" and "cease" (caedere in L.). B>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
Oh! So the same dosage for flukes as AEFW! Got it:) thanks
<Welcome>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
That was my thinking so I ordered powder Praziquantel.
I didn't want to but I did a formalin dip yesterday on the Flame. He did ok through out it. I then put him into a sterilized tank.
<... dangerous, but effective>
I did read a paper on hypo being effective against flukes and the eggs.
Jen
<Not often entirely. B>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/3/13
I did a lot of reading before I did the dip. It was aerated for 2 hrs prior, timed and I watched him constantly for stress. He actually did more swimming in there than he did before and after the dip. I don't think he's going to make it. I just dosed him with PraziPro again.
<Why?>
It has, in the past, given him relief so at this point I have nothing to lose. Jen
<I'd summarily pH-adjusted formalin bath this fish and move it to a non-infested system. B>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/3/13
When you say pH adjusted is the water to be freshwater or salt?
<.... see WWM re>
I used saltwater with the formalin dip (45 minutes)
<Way too long...>
yesterday then moved him into clean tank. I've read this can be done every 3 days for 4 treatments...kind of like tank transfer method for Ich.
I used the PraziPro because it did help him for weeks, to the point I thought we had kicked the flukes. It's only in the last week they got bad.
Jen

Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/26/12
Bob, thank you. I see the porcupine puffer seems to have either worms/flukes
<Common; and easily cured w/ Prazi/quantel, other Anthelminthics>
or broken spines here and there on his body (approximately 6 in total). It seems to have increased over the week from 2. I reviewed FAQs for puffers/Burrfish on disease, I see a few other mentions of this observation but it seems conclusions go in either direction.
I wonder if it is possible that Ich scratching or a tankmate caused broken spines, or if in fact he has a parasitic worm problem.
<Could have either/both>
No other tankmates have this issue. I have not observed him scratching.
When Ich spots were present on fish, the Bluehead wrasse seemed interested in picking off Ich spots on tankmates (although none would allow), but he doesn't show interest in the puffer. The puffer is eating heartily and active.
<Good>
I have PraziPro on hand, and copper treatment / water changes continue.
Any guidance? Thanks! Dave
<I'd treat all the fishes w/ this compound, now. B>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/27/12
Thank you Bob. At a quick search I can't see whether attempting the PraziPro treatment for my Fowlr display tank alongside my ongoing Cupramine treatment is ill-advised. Perhaps I should check with Amanda at Seachem, or would you know?
<Ill-advised? I would not treat live rock... or sand... as these almost always have a plethora of worm species to phyla... whose deaths create a real bio-hazard. B>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster... fluke trtmt. f' as well 8/27/12
Bob,
OK, I have wondered if the Crypto-Pro (completed) and Cupramine (ongoing) treatments have already caused the rock inhabitant die-offs to occur...given the ongoing Ammonia/Nitrate levels that register...however it's not a good time to gamble that these will not raise further so I will treat outside the tank.
<...? Am I given to understand you're treating w/ the rock present? I would NOT do this>
I will attempt PraziPro bath/baths for the puffer first. Do I wait until I observe signs of external flukes/worms on the others before attempting the same? I don't see any signs on the other tank inhabitants. I wonder if this is something that is/will only plague the puffer? I may have great difficulty removing the others from the tank also, but will do whatever needs to be done and as you suggest...
<... have already answered this... archived on WWM>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/27/12
Hi Bob, Sorry for the confusion, I had treated the whole FOWLR tank (rock included) with Crypto Pro (2 weeks) and Cupramine (ongoing to finish at 2 weeks), but I will not treat for worms/flukes in the main tank (with the rock) as I understand you are strongly advising against it. Sorry...and I will reference the WWM archives regarding my question of whether I treat the puffer's tankmates who have not yet shown the external worms/flukes.
Again I thank you, Dave
<Thank you for the clarification B>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/27/12
Bob, thank you. I researched the archives more closely and have come up with some treatment paths on the newly emerging worm issue. If I may run the by you to elicit your suggestion on the optimal path.
<Please do>
As you may recall, my fish have been through a lot with ongoing display tank Crypto Pro and Copper treatments. I am maintaining Cupramine in the tank, coming upon day 14 on Tuesday. I have been maintaining a .2-.3ppm concentration.
<Yes>
I described likely/increasing worm pathogens on the porcupine puffer, appearing as stray/limp spines. I also have noticed black Ich spots on the hippo tang, greatly increasing in just a day's time. Is it likely to be the same pathogen species?
<Not likely the same, no... Trematodes (the most populous such worm parasites) tend to be more species, family specific>
Or, is it more likely to be separate species that are taking advantage of these organisms with reduced immunity from the ongoing copper?
<Can't tell Dave... need to examine under a 'scope>
You have advised that I treat all fish with Prazi, now. And, that I absolutely do use Prazi in the display tank further (i.e., with the rock).
I have a challenge in that the already stressed fish will, on the whole, be very difficult to remove from and put back into from the main tank for daily treatment, and I don't currently have a large quarantine option to accommodate all fish.
<Yes>
Herein I see several options:
1) Continue Cupramine treatment at an increased level (i.e. above .35),
<... again, I would not do this. Too toxic>
which would target the worms (as recommended by Seachem). I see in the archives that copper is can be recommended/successful in treating these pathogens.
While this could increase the risk to the fish, it would allow them to forego daily chases/baths and target the worms. I am nervous about higher copper and wonder if this is a poor option.
<It is IMO/E>
2) Continue Cupramine at existing dose to full treatment duration, administer Prazi Pro baths to easily caught fish now (i.e., hippo in isolation, puffer), monitor and remove/treat the difficult-to-catch fish if/when fluke problem causes them to be lethargic. This seems risky in that I must rely on significant pathogen damage to the faster fish before I can catch/treat (and raises likelihood that infestation would continue for all fish).
3a) Option 1 or 2 plus beginning display tank Paraguard treatment after the full Cupramine treatment (Amanda from Seachem suggested this as a fluke treatment alternative). This would help manage all pathogenic conditions (although add to a long treatment regimen for the fish).
3b) Same as Option 3a, except end Cupramine treatment early/now and start Paraguard ASAP.
Any feedback on which is best? Or is there a different suggested option?
<I'd go w/ 2 as my first choice 3a as my second>
Thanks again and again...Dave

butterfly / Praziquantel and Metronidazole usage. 5/14/12
Gentlemen,
<And some of the tender gender Eric.>
I recently introduced a copper-band butterfly fish in my quarantine. After two days of eating well I decided to start medicated her for internal parasites. The only med with Praziquantel that I found available was combined with Metronidazole. 37.5 mgs of Prazi and 135 mgrs of Metro.
<A good combo. for such application>
The recommended dosage that I new was safe is 100-150 mgs/40 lts of Prazi and some 125 mgs /40 lts of Metro.
Both meds in the web mention that there little chance of overdose.
<Little?...>
I medicated my quarantine with 60 mgrs of Prazi and 250 mgrs of Metro simultaneously. I now realize that the Metro was twice as high as I should have dose the Quarantine water.
After 12 hours of treatment the fish was heavily breathing and gasping for air. I then did a 100 % water change but the fish did not improve. Until today the fish lies down heavily breathing. Its been 24 hrs now. She is stable but not improving as I would hope. Can you please comment on my dosage. Is it a bad idea to medicate both Prazi & Metro simultaneously?
<That stated as "safe" s/b fine>
What would be your recommend sequence medication and dosage for the two treatments.
<Likely just the one dose... three day, week's exposure. Better by far to get these compounds inside the fish/es (via foods). See WWM re>
As per the info I have described is the reaction normal or her condition ( recent capture ) could of caused a liver damage or 'overload' ?
<Mmm, yes>
and at last in your opinion is there hope?
<Always>
Thanks in advance.
Eric
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Praziquantel use 5/1/12
Bob,
I was able to find Praziquantel in the form of Droncit tabs (50 mg) but cannot find in the web, the proper dosage or precise way to administer. I have heard that it can be diluted in vodka then poured in quarantine water day 1 and redose day 6, but have not found a clear gr/lt dosage. I also have heard that it can be administered in the food but how can you assure the correct grams if it will depend on how much the fish will eat.
it is all so confusing. How would you proceed with this med?
<... search on Google. Praziquantel dosage aquariums>
Thanks for your time.
Saludos
Eric

Hi 3/27/11
Hi Crew, I am performing hyposalinity 1.009 to my 300gallon. Can I turn on the ozonizer?
<Likely so... you may well get different readings per the output setting as for your regular specific gravity>
2nd question , can Cupramine and Praziquantel mix and dose?
<They can>
Thank you very
Much
Regards
Kellvin Lim
<Am not much of a fan of hyposalinity treatments. Do read re on WWM. Bob Fenner>
Re: Hi 3/28/11
Hi,
Thank you so much. I had miss out this. Can I use Praziquantel during performing hyposalinity at 1.009? Do I need to reduce the dosage. Thank you.
Kellvin Lim
<Same dosage at any concentration of salt presence. B>

PraziPro treatment 8/29/10
Hi WWM,
<Tracey>
You have been very helpful to me in the past with my Achilles tang, he is doing great, thanks so much.
<Welcome>
My question now is regarding PraziPro treatment and feeding live blackworms. I have a large QT tank, 100g, with a yellow Coris wrasse, carpenters flasher wrasse, Longnose hawk, 2 purple Firefish and a Copperband butterfly. The Copperband is eating Mysis and picks at clams, I am also considering live blackworms but have been told the worms may bring unknown pathogens.
<Not for marine organisms, no. Freshwater perhaps, though this is rare... vs. the old wild-collected Tubificid worm days>
The Copperband has started head twitching and I suspect flukes,<Skin/slime scraping and microscopic analysis... I would not guess, treat on the basis of this behavioral observation alone>
I have had a lot of success in the past with PraziPro treatment but wanted to be sure it would be a safe med to use with the current inhabitants.
<Is but... likely unnecessary. Some twitching behavior is natural, and in captive/QT conditions even more so>
Thanks for your time and excellent site.
Tracey
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: PraziPro treatment 9/6/2010
Thank You for your help again Mr. Fenner, my Copperband is excellent, loving Mysis and blackworms.
<Ah, good>
The flasher wrasse in QT has 2 white patches on her side, not raised, it just looks like someone took an eraser and erased some of the colour, any idea what this would be?
<Yes... most/very likely "simply" marks from a physical trauma ("jumping")... I'd move this fish ASAPractical back to the main/display system>
I would send a picture but she hides when the camera comes out, she is eating well. Thanks Again, Tracey
<And you for this update Tracey. BobF>

Praziquantel in presence of copper 1/10/10
Hi guys,
<Howdy>
I have an interesting quandary and I hope you might be able to help. I have a marine tank that I just finished a 30 day copper treatment in for a Cryptocaryon infection. I am in the process of water changing to bring the copper concentration down and now I have a Benedenia infestation (verified by microsopy) that is taking animals down. I have water changed 25% twice in the last two weeks and copper is parked at ..10ppm- didn't budge after the most recent water changes. (I am using Accuvac ampule reagents and Hach spectrophotometer)
<Okay... I wouldn't be overly concerned re the residual Cu++>
My question is: what do you know about using 2ppm Praziquantel in the presence of .10ppm copper?
<A bit...>
BTW:) if my tank was not 45,000 gallons, I would just catch everybody and Prazi bathe them but that is not an option.
Heidi
<Understood, and not a problem to mix these here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Praziquantel in presence of copper 1/11/10
Thanks Bob!
<Welcome Heidi. B>

Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem Acropora Eating Flatworm control, chem. 1/3/10
Hi Bob,
<Matt>
I've been doing a little bit of reading on the web in regards to treating your entire reef tank for AEFW using Levamisole. There seems to be a little bit of inconsistency in terms of the amount to dose your tank and how to carry out the procedure with minimal loss and hardship on the tank. Would you be able to provide me a procedure on using this product properly?
<Mmm, yes... I can/will paraphrase what is stated/furthered by Ed Noga (Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment)... for Prolonged immersion, 10 mg of Levamisole HCl/l (28 mg per gallon) per Butcher 1993>
, I in no way would hold you responsible if anything bad happened... I must treat the tank though before populations begin to grow larger. I noticed a few bit marks underneath a coral which had been losing purple coloration on the tips...I now know why...seeing little brown egg sacks in a couple places surrounding the base of the coral and white bite marks further up the main branches, but not too many of them. I am planning a 3-4 week treatment using Levamisole, what's your recommended dosage/gallon? And how much exposure do I give the tank with Levamisole before executing a big water change/carbon...
<A week if no otherwise adverse signs>
I have noticed a few other Acropora losing color here and there, I'm confident that once these worms are free and clear, I should begin to see a good amount of coloration start to return. This is my second year keeping and sps tank, first year I had a run in with red bugs which was easily treated in a 3 week period using interceptor, now I'm experiencing AEFW but without a solid method of elimination.
I sincerely appreciate your time and help,
Matt
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem
Ok, I'm going to order that book as this is the second time I've heard of that author.
<Is expensive, but well worth it>
So let me state this clearly what I plan to do:
Add 4592 milligrams Levamisole to 164 gallons (reef system volume). Add directly to tank? or dilute and add slowly?
<Dilute and add slowly>
And don't change any water in the tank for a week unless noticing adverse affects earlier?
<Yes>
Does this sound right?
<Correct. B>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem, Levamisole use f's 1/4/10
Got it,
At end of first week of tank being dosed, I will perform 50% water change. Mandatory GAC? or no.
<Not mandatory>
How much time after w/c do I wait before adding next dose of ~4.5 gram Levamisole?
<Mmm, weekly>
I have eggs so I will be dealing with AEFW entire life cycle which = 4 consecutive weekly treatment correct? or 5? In nutshell, 50% w/c followed by new dose every Saturday for a month?
<Sounds good>
Does the skimmer take out the Levamisole?
<Don't know>
Would it be better to leave the skimmer running all week without the collection cup?

-Matt
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem 1/4/10
And because this is a prolonged immersion treatment, I noticed the dose is significantly less than what a dip would be comprised of.
<Yes>
Does this mean the flatworms will be slowly dying out in my tank from lower concentration. Can you give me a little info on what to expect after first dose, do they fall off within a day? 2 days?..3?
<Only experience can/will tell. Is variable>
Being that they are nearly invisible, should I be looking for healing bite marks?
<Likely so>
Again, much appreciated.
-Matt
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem, Levamisole sourcing s -- 01/12/2010
Hi Bob,
<Matt>
I've been unfortunate thus far in my quest for obtaining Levamisole online.
I looked at this site which appeared promising:
http://www.inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html
but have not heard a peep back from them and its been a little over two weeks. Might you have any sources from your extensive list of reef people contacts that I could buy some from?
<Try: "buying Levamisole on line" in Google... or your local veterinarian. BobF>
Much appreciated.
-Matt
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problems -- 01/12/2010
Thanks, just ordered some from Cole-Parmer.com, I got 20 grams for $140.
Should be enough for 4 treatments (4.5grams ea.)/4 consecutive weeks.
-Matt
<Expensive! But... Thank you for the input. BobF>

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem 1/20/10
So it turns out, Cole-Parmer.com doesn't ship Levamisole hydrochloride to residential addresses.
<Dang!>
Bummer... back to square one.
<Is there not a friendly Veterinarian nearby?>
I think I may have to tear apart my reef and start over with Acroporas leaving the Monti's and Seriatoporas, anything not Acro...., dip and quarantining the Acro's may end up being the only way to deal with this. I would much rather dose tank but doesn't appear like it will be that easy.
Only problem now is establishing Acro quarantine.
Arrgghhh.
<There are other Anthelminthics... Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmidcuref.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem. Levamisole, bad reaction series 1/26/10
Hey there Bob,
<M>
Received 20 grams of Levamisole Hydrochloride 99% strength. (For AEFW)
1) Weighed out 4.6 grams on scale for 1st dose for 164 gallons system volume for my sps reef.
2) Mixed the dosage into 5 gallons of tank water in a bucket and added slowly to system.
Observations from 1 1/2hr exposure:
3) SPS coral polyps started to close up tightly almost immediately after adding treatment, 20 or so minutes later..copepods were whirling around the tank dying out
4) Small bristleworms started to appear dead at about the same time
<To be expected>
5) Tennenti tang's color was dark and eye's appeared to be under stress
6) Rest of the fish usually are out and about for 5pm feeding time, all were in hiding except the true Perculas.
7) Took a nap for an hr
8) came back and polyps were still closed, noticed more copepods dead, more bristle worms too, couldn't tell if AEFW's were dead too but I'd imagine must have taken some if not all out, except any eggs of course
9) Got nervous about leaving the tank with full treatment overnight, so did a 75-80% water change on the tank after power heading off all corals and live rock for detritus/and possibly stubborn AEFW on colonies.
10) Tank therefore only was exposed to the 28mg/gallon (Noga's prolonged recommendation) for 1:30hrs.
I don't think there would be any success if we went a whole week as previously discussed or even overnight at that dosage. Guessing there would have been some fish loss the next day for sure.
<Mmmm>
From what I can see, the drug is very very powerful, much much more so than interceptor. I would change the prolonged tank treatment dosage to even half or 1/4 of the 28mg/gal. maybe something along the lines of 7 or 14mg/gal. wouldn't that slowly kill them over a week's time with less stress to the tank's inhabitants?
<Hopefully>
My hope is that we can find a treatment procedure that isn't too harsh on the tank yet wipes these guys out. What do you think my next step should be in this process? another treatment next week?, perhaps a different dosage and/or exposure time?

Appreciate your thoughts on this.
Thanks,
-Matthew
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem, Levamisole rxn. series 1/27/10
Fish are still a bit shy this morning. Found a big dead Bristleworm laying on top the sand. I placed two sacs of carbon in the sump and cleaned the skimmer...the Levamisole itself is pretty harsh, but assuming it killed off flatworms, they release pretty harmful toxins themselves when they die, so thought this would be a good idea to absorb any shenanigans circulating in the tank.
<Yes... a good point for sure>
It's gonna be very tough to tell when there are no flatworms in the tank, maybe take a couple months to really determine that based on coral health and no more evidence of bites... Will partially bleached coral bases grow
back or not so much?
<Will grow back given time, good care, propitious circumstances. BobF>
Re: re: Fwd: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem 2/1/2010
Alright, so here's an update. After the 1.5 hr treatment @ 4.6 grams/160 gallon system last Thursday. It appeared to have wiped out many bristleworms, pods, and hopefully the aefw's. However not the case after a little power heading on the corals today (Sunday evening) discovered a few mongrel size aefw flew off, not too many, but the point being that the treatment wasn't long enough to take a toll on them. This treatment would have killed the fish any longer than what they were exposed to. So now I'm shaking my head...saying now what....
<Indeed... maybe removing the desired livestock for one last treatment>
I managed to capture a worm and experiment Salifert Exit on him. So far doesn't respond at all to recommended dosage. Tried 4 drops per gallon which is way above dosage by 4x the amount, worm kind of lifts his head up at times but resumes function. In any case, so far at this dosage that doesn't even work, I would have to buy 10 bottles of flatworm exit just to treat the tank 3 weeks in a row. So this method doesn't seem too promising...
Looking for other options though..
-Matt
<Other Anthelminthics. You know where to search. BobF>
Re: re: Fwd: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem 2/1/2010
Bob,
<M>
Most recent update...on AEFW that is....
At 4 drops per gallon with Salifert Flatworm Exit, flatworm was dead at 8:30 when I came home from dinner, started with only 2 drops at 5pm, then added 2 more for 4 drops total at 6pm. Didn't die after 1 hr.... looks like
after 2 1/2 hrs it killed him off. So according to the recommended dosage of 4 drops per 5 gallons (per Salifert instructions), you would need to increase dosage to 4 DROPS PER GALLON to rid AEFW, and add this much for 3 - 4 consecutive weeks to kill entire AEFW lifecycle/eggs....etc....
So, I may just end up getting lots of Salifert flatworm exit and using that since it is not as harmful to the fish/reef system as Levamisole hydrochloride....
This method seems to be a successful in tank treatment for AEFW :)
<... okay!>
Now let's just tell Salifert to up the bottle size of EXit and we're all good :)
-Matt
<You might want to try your own serial dilution of Praziquantel... BobF>

PraziPro, use, flukes Hello, I recently purchased a Klein Butterfly, after being in a quarantine tank for 2 weeks (with nothing apparently wrong) I added it to the display tank. Now I think it may have flukes because it scratches against rocks a lot. <Mmm, might I ask, how much is "a lot?". Most fishes can/do "scratch some"...> Catching it would be very difficult and would stress out it as well as others. The tank is a 180 g reef with many SPS and LPS and snails, no shrimp or crabs. PraziPro states that it is safe for most aquarium inhabitants, but I am skeptical. If left untreated will the flukes spread to others? <Mmm, not often... turns out that most Trematodes are rather species, genus, family specific> Are there any whole tank treatments? Thanks Mike Winston <There are... but I urge patience here... Have another few weeks go by... see if the "scratching" abates... not worth the risk of killing all (and there may indeed be a bunch!) of your Praziquantel sensitive life here. Bob Fenner>
Re: PraziPro, flukes 10/3/08 Thanks for the reply, well he is scratching enough to cause some scales to come off, <! This is too much. Let's see... there are several, okay a few reasons why fishes "scratch"...> no bleeding but looks bad. I added some iodine to water thinking it might help with wound. <Good> So my other fish include yellow and hippo tang, swallowtail angel, blue throat trigger, dispar Anthias, Sixline wrasse and some clowns. If flukes are not an issue to others I will hold off any tank treatment, I was concerned others might be infected. <A reasonable concern. I am more inclined to consider other (Protozoan) possibilities... Still, at this juncture, I would not "add" anything here... The fact that the range of fish life you list is doing fine... leads me to wonder re other "itchy" potentials... maybe this fish brushed up against something irritating... BobF> Thanks again. Mike

Help with Hydroid Myrionema. - 04/14/08 Hello Again. I believer you are correct on what i have (hydroid Myrionema). We have a hard time getting rid of it. <Yes... can be a real bugger> I have searched on line for remedies. With my tank being 200 gal. reef safe with the following (blue tang/unicorn tang/clown tang/2 yellow tangs/cleaner wrasse/Lunare wrasse/blue damsel/Banggai cardinal/pajama cardinal/blood red Hawkfish and a mated pair of green mandarin gobies) a clean up crew and we have feather dusters/tube anemones/polyps/frogspawn/leather corral and mushrooms. We do water changes for nitrate levels, and have decided to move to the Zeo system. However i wanted to know what this Panacur is all about. On line people have used it to get rid of the hydroids, but does it work, and will it help me. Thanks MC <Mmmm, what are the active ingredients in this product? Bob Fenner.

Re: Help with Hydroid Myrionema. 4/16/08 April 15, 2008 Hi again. I'm sorry the product people are using to get rid of Hydroid Myrionema is Panacur, the main active ingredients is Fenbendazole. <Ahh!> I wanted to know if i could use it? <Mmm, well... it may well kill off a good deal of the "wormy" life in the system... is an anthelminthic... and most all marine systems, natural and aquarium have substantial worm faunas... So, at the least I'd have a good deal of pre-made water ready, be aware that changes may need to be made... successively, along with the use of chemical filtrants, change of mechanical media, cleaning of skimmer/s...> But I wanted to make sure i don't kill off my tank. <You are wise here> What do you suggest? I'm at my wits end with this hydroid, (working on it for over 9 months) and if it weren't for my mated pair of green mandarin gobies, which are doing very well, i would kill of my rock and start over. <Mmm... I would try some biological controls first myself... or move all the "desired" livestock elsewhere for a few weeks, while using the "de-wormer". BobF>

Praziquantel Also Bob, I am wondering if you can help me. We have some incident of Trematodes in our system. These worm/fluke is in the fish and when we fresh water dip the fish, the worm came off from the fish. Some people I talk to say to treat with Praziquantel or PraziPro from Hikari. Do you have any info as far as treating the entire system with PraziPro (side effect, other problems etc). Thank you, Fred <Ah, yes. For Trematodes, treating their systems as well as fish livestock, 2 to 10 mg Praziquantel/liter (or 7.6 mg/gallon)... the lower does for Monogeneans will do it, the higher for Digenes. There are also methods (not applicable here) for injection and oral administration, baths... Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Praziquantel Thanks Bob, what about PraziPro? Is it safe? <Yes... is just Praziquantel and a stabilizing agent: http://www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm> I know it is a lot more expensive but no need to dilute. <Agreed> I heard you need to dilute Praziquantel with Vodka? <Heeee! Can use this solvent... or not> Also, how can you tell the difference between Monogeneans and Digenes. Thank you, Fred <Mmm, sorry for the added confusion. I would not worry re the digenetic Trematodes... they can/will perish along with the rest or die out quickly enough due to the lack of intermediate hosts (Di as in two... two or more other life forms to pass through before getting to their determinate host (your fishes)...), as opposed to Monogenes that have a direct life cycle. Bob Fenner>

What's in Fluke Tabs? Hi Chuck! I bought the Fluke tabs. Do you know what are the active ingredients? It's not written on the product. Thanks! Dominique <The active ingredients are Mebendazole and Trichlorfon.-Chuck>

Praziquantel dosing for sharks - 3/11/05 What Would The Average Dose For a 2 ft. shark be? <The treatment is based on weight. It is important to note that Droncit (Praziquantel) is usually very difficult to come by and usually will need a veterinarian to prescribe. In light of that these are the recommended treatments for when you can get your hands on some. For oral treatments the recommendation is nine milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight once a day for seven days. The recommended treatment for external Trematodes is a saltwater bath mixture of 10 milligrams per liter for a three hour bath every third day for three treatments. As an alternative, 20 milligrams per liter for 90 minutes every third day of three treatments is not usually prescribed but can administered. Praziquantel is difficult to dissolve. Using 95% ETOH will help ( 1 g to 10ml ETOH), or it can be pressed through a stocking or other fine mesh net. Adding slowly to the water while stirring may help avoid coagulation. Hope this will help. Good luck. ~Paul>

Pesticides for killing isopods... Ahhhh, No. 5/10/04 Hi Guy's <howdy!> Great site! <thanks kindly> Was wondering what your thoughts are on the use of dog heartworm medication (Melbemycine oxime) to eradicate Cirolanid Isopods. <a dreadful idea/advocation... its efficacy runs the gamut, but more importantly, it will kill far many more desirable crustaceans in the main display than bad ones. The bad ones should be/have been easily screened in a proper 4 week quarantine on arrival> I'm aware I'll lose all crustaceans, at least the ones I don't remove, but see very few options. <Ahhh.. OK. Although I cannot agree> I believe they arrived in the aqua cultured LR that I cycled the tank with. <yes... they are common in Florida live rock... especially that dreadful heavy stuff from shallow coastal waters (many parasites there)> Tank has been up and running for about 6 months. The predatory Isopods made their presence know, at least to me, only this past week. I've caught and removed 3 pods from two different fish. <sigh... I regret you have learned this way as many of us do. But QT is not an option, and must be done for all things wet: fishes, corals, live rock, sand, plants... everything! There are too many pests, predators and diseases that can and will be carried in with live products> A tank raised Perc. And a bi-color angel. The tank is 72g bow front, 85lbs of LR, 4inch sand bed, Thanks for your thoughts on this. Mike <remove the fishes to QT and trap for isopods in the display with meat. Read more on this in the FAQs on this subject in our archives at wetwebmedia.com. Anthony>

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