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FAQs about the Imperator Angel Disease Treatment

FAQs on Emperor Angel Health: Emperor Disease 1, Emperor Disease 2, Emperor Health 3, Emperor Health 4, Emperor Health 5,
FAQs on Emperor Angel Health by Category: Diagnosis, Environmental, Nutritional, Pathogenic (see also:
Angels and Butterflyfishes & Crypt), Social, Trauma, Genetic,

Related Articles: Imperator Angels, Pomacanthus Angels, Marine Angelfishes

Related FAQs: Emperor Angels 1Emperor Angels 2, Emperor Angels 3, Emperor Angel ID, Emperor Behavior, Emperor Compatibility, Emperor Angel Selection, Emperor Angel Systems, Emperor Feeding, Marine Angelfishes In General, Selection, Behavior, Compatibility, Health, Feeding, Disease,  

 

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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Emperor Angel with sore mouth      11/6/17
Hi,
<Sagen>
I have an emperor angel who's currently being quarantined in Cupramine.
<Pomacanthids really don't like Cu exposure... Please see (read) on WWM re>
He's on his 6th day and doing well at 0.35ppm. He eats well, no heavy breathing, swims around as usual. However recently he has started to develop some kind of sore on his lower lip.
<I cannot emphasize how DANGEROUS this is. I would remove (use GAC likely) all copper and take great care that this fish is feeding, and having more cover for this fish to hide, feel secure. IF the mouth continues to be infected... this specimen will die>
Attached is a picture of him.
Bit shy of the camera however you can see his lips on the reflection.
Please help me identify what this is, the cause and how to treat while in Cupramine. Any help on this would really be appreciated.
--
Kind Regards,
Sagen George
<And you, Bob Fenner>

Emperor angel mouth reddish in colour; too long in QT, Cu exp.         3/22/17
Hello Bob or reef crew I have had a 4.5in juvenile in a 35 gallon long hospital tank for about 7 weeks. Ph about 8.1, salinity 1.022,
<Raise this>

temp 80 degrees. Used filter with filter floss seeded from refugium for about a week. Large pipe for hiding.
First four weeks were great as it looked perfect was eating everything with no meds. Then appeared to be showing ich so I dosed Cupramine slowly increasing the dose to 4-5 ppm.
No issues over the 14 days at full treatment level. I did a 50 per cent water change and used carbon for two days to remove copper. Then I thought I'd use PraziPro again using recommended dosage in case of internal issues. It's day 3 of 5- 7
recommended and I've noticed all day it hasn't eaten and a red colour in the mouth and around it externally.
<...>
I have also been doing 50 percent water changes every 3-5 days over the time it's been in the tank as its eating so much, and dosing appropriately when I replace water. I've been measuring copper concentration to ensure
its ok.
<Stop this>
The red colour looks like blood near the surface of the skin and is very concerning as it looks like a severe skin irritation of some kind.
<The copper, stress>
Looks like fish is labouring breathing but still around 60 breaths a minute. I read Bob said 80 was bad.
Hate to not treat with PraziPro for internal pests for full term of 5-7 days. Wondering if I should use carbon and water change to remove as much PraziPro as I can to get emperor back to health...
<Yes>
Do I risk the internal pests issue arising once it's in my 340 gallon display?
<Some, yes, but I'd be MOVING this fish; now>
Or try once again w PraziPro. I feel it really deserves to get into the display soon!
<I STRONGLY agree re moving it NOW>
Thanks so much!
Sandip
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Emperor angel mouth reddish in colour    3/23/17
Bob thanks so much for your prompt response!
<Welcome Sandip>
Reason why I had emperor in QT so long was to see if I could get away without medicating beyond the freshwater dip before it went to QT.
<... I understand the theory; but would have all understand that beyond two weeks quarantine, there is more damage than good to be had likely>

I should give up in this concept and just medicate and have a maximum qt experience of 3-4 weeks.
<... Not recommended. I suspect that there is nothing pathogenic wrong with this fish; that its problems at this point are induced>
However week 5 issues (ich I think) arose which went away after using the recommended length of Cupramine treatment.
<Pomacanthids have low tolerance to copper. I DO NOT recommend that they be exposed to unnecessarily>
Also reason I was doing water changes so much was to keep water quality with the amount it was eating. 35 gallon for a 4.5in emperor but I was concerned about nitrates...
Emperor is looking a bit happier after the water change. The meds must be part of the issue. However I noticed some white patches raises from the skin -cotton like. You can see on the fishes left side at the bottom below
the fin around the breast. Photo doesn't show it very well but it is raised like cotton. I will send photo in a separate email now. Also the ends on the bottom fins look like they have lost skin.
<...>
I could put into my frag tank (attached to same system as Display) in a container so it can acclimate to display conditions with no one picking on it. I have a yellow tang and a Bellus angel in the 80 gallon frag tank. I could observe to see if it's getting better. The display is about 1.025 so I think I'm supposed to slowly raise from 1.021/1.022 to 1.025 over three days?
<If necessary>
Or should I just do over a day and get in frag tank?
<Yes I would>
I worry about spreading the cotton though...I can't imagine this is velvet as it didn't show in first 4 weeks, it's had 14 days of Cupramine too, and no new fish additions.
Thanks again for your advice!!
Sandip
<Just stating what I would do given similar circumstances. Bob Fenner>
Fwd: Emperor Angel mouth red Photos of cotton on skin (I sent another email today referencing this photo)

> Photo not showing cotton very well but on the breast below fin. White patches and discolouration.
<Move this fish. B>
> Should this be medicated before putting in display system? Cupramine should have cured... not sure I have anything else to medicate other than Methylene Blue and Metroplex. I know you have expressed concern over
medication so far...
> Thanks
> Sandip

Emperor Angel wasting away.     2/26/14
Hi Bob,
<Adam>
About a month ago I purchased a juv Emperor Angel about 5 cm.s in size originating from the Philippines. He is eating well as are all the other fish in the tank. I feed small amounts about four times a day, New Life Spectrumax and other foods. He eats very well getting 7-10 pieces (1mm) each feeding but is slowly losing weight. Even a tiny Regal Angel about 3 cm.s is fat on the same diet so I suspect an internal parasite. Any ideas please?
<Perhaps internal (lumenal) parasites... see/search/read on WWM re...
perhaps a one-time lacing of the Spectrum (see the SOP re Furunculosis re) w/ Metronidazole. B>
Kind regards,
Adam.
Emperor wasting away. Coppered     2/26/14

Bob,
I forgot to add I am treating with Cupramine at 0.5
<Oh; toxic. This IS adding to the fish's troubles>
all other fish are fine but the Emperor is blotchy since adding the copper but not scratching or being bullied etc. Are Emperors very sensitive to Copper?
<Yes.... just search, read on WWM>

Other fish in the tank are tiny Regal Angel, Adult Majestic Angel, Adult Blueface Angel, Regal Tang and two Ocellaris clownfish. All fine even the "holes" in the head on the Majestic and Blueface when I first added Cupramine have gone.
Kind regards,
Adam.
Update on Emperor. Cu and angels       3/9/14

Hi,
<Adam>
Update for your readers - I decided to strip the copper from my tank using Seachem's carbon. I was surprised how long it takes but after a week the copper level was down to 0.1 and I replaced with a second set of carbon for two reasons, after a week I suspect most of the carbon is saturated and also if the pH should drop I did not want the copper going back into the tank.
The Emperor has improved in colour and the blotches have gone. I decided not to treat for internal parasites as having read up I was concerned about my bacteria filtration. The Emperor is still eating well and his weight seems to have stabilised. I am suspicious as to how he was caught (Cyanide etc) but hope his digestive tract bacteria is returning.
<As the fish is eating; and didn't perish almost immediately from; I suspect it is fine>
I have learn that Copper is more sensitive to Emperors than to the mostly harder to keep Regal, Blueface and Majestic Angels, the Regal who was eating half the time when the Copper was at 0.6 is now eating well.
Kind regards,
Adam.
<Thank you for this report. BobF>
Hole in the head on Majestic and BlueFace Angel      3/9/14

Hi,
<Hello again>
Fortunately after decreasing the amount of copper in the water, 80% of the "holes" have gone.
Kind regards,
Adam.
<This too. B>

Emperor Angel wasting away.     2/26/14
Hi Bob,
<Adam>
About a month ago I purchased a juv Emperor Angel about 5 cm.s in size originating from the Philippines. He is eating well as are all the other fish in the tank. I feed small amounts about four times a day, New Life Spectrumax and other foods. He eats very well getting 7-10 pieces (1mm) each feeding but is slowly losing weight. Even a tiny Regal Angel about 3 cm.s is fat on the same diet so I suspect an internal parasite. Any ideas please?
<Perhaps internal (lumenal) parasites... see/search/read on WWM re...
perhaps a one-time lacing of the Spectrum (see the SOP re Furunculosis re) w/ Metronidazole. B>
Kind regards,
Adam.
Emperor wasting away. Coppered     2/26/14

Bob,
I forgot to add I am treating with Cupramine at 0.5
<Oh; toxic. This IS adding to the fish's troubles>
all other fish are fine but the Emperor is blotchy since adding the copper but not scratching or being bullied etc. Are Emperors very sensitive to Copper?
<Yes.... just search, read on WWM>

Other fish in the tank are tiny Regal Angel, Adult Majestic Angel, Adult Blueface Angel, Regal Tang and two Ocellaris clownfish. All fine even the "holes" in the head on the Majestic and Blueface when I first added Cupramine have gone.
Kind regards,
Adam.
Update on Emperor. Cu and angels       3/9/14

Hi,
<Adam>
Update for your readers - I decided to strip the copper from my tank using Seachem's carbon. I was surprised how long it takes but after a week the copper level was down to 0.1 and I replaced with a second set of carbon for two reasons, after a week I suspect most of the carbon is saturated and also if the pH should drop I did not want the copper going back into the tank.
The Emperor has improved in colour and the blotches have gone. I decided not to treat for internal parasites as having read up I was concerned about my bacteria filtration. The Emperor is still eating well and his weight seems to have stabilised. I am suspicious as to how he was caught (Cyanide etc) but hope his digestive tract bacteria is returning.
<As the fish is eating; and didn't perish almost immediately from; I suspect it is fine>
I have learn that Copper is more sensitive to Emperors than to the mostly harder to keep Regal, Blueface and Majestic Angels, the Regal who was eating half the time when the Copper was at 0.6 is now eating well.
Kind regards,
Adam.
<Thank you for this report. BobF>
Hole in the head on Majestic and BlueFace Angel      3/9/14

Hi,
<Hello again>
Fortunately after decreasing the amount of copper in the water, 80% of the "holes" have gone.
Kind regards,
Adam.
<This too. B>

Emperor Treatment QT?     8/8/13
To whom it may concern,
<Brent>
Hope you are well.
<Thank you>
I have an Emperor Angel (5" adult coloration) in a 33 gallon QT tank. It has been in the tank for 9 days. I started his first treatment of PraziPro 2 days ago.
The Emperor eats pellets (NLS & Hikari Seaweed Extreme),fresh clams and oysters and Julian Sprung's Sea Veggies (Green & Purple).
His color and condition is immaculate!
I have read a ton about Cupramine and have been strongly advised by credible members on ReefCentral to treat whether the Emperor shows signs of parasitic infection or not.
<I agree>
My plan is to administer another treatment of Prazi after the current one and observe for another week after the 2nd treatment. That would bring the Emperor's total time in QT to 4 weeks.
<Mmm; this fish/specimen is ready to be moved. I would place it in your main/display system>
Personally I know their is a lot we don't see when it comes to parasitic infections and preventative measures are a good idea but if I believe the Emperor to be healthy after qt I don't want to unnecessarily treat, especially an angelfish, with copper (Cupramine).
<Further agreed>
What are your thoughts and what would you recommend in my situation?
<As above>
Thanks for you time.
Brent
<And you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Emperor Angel blotchy, not eating while other fish are fine. Stress/induced, and poisoned by med.s  2/5/13
Please help!
Hi there
<Faheema>
Thank you so much for always being so incredibly polite and informative - I've learnt so much from you guys! I need help. I have an Emperor Angel who is refusing to eat and has large white blotches over his body. They seem to fade as the day progresses but I've attached a picture of what he looks like first thing in the morning.
<I see this... and the other angel>
Recent events: I had a run of white spot which I treated with Cupramine about four months ago. I did this in my display tank, which resulted in a collapse of my bio filter.
<Common occurrence>
 I struggled to get my nitrates down but it eventually budged with the help of an overpowered skimmer, Nitraguard titanium cubes, special blend and lots of water changes. The white spot returned and I decided to not treat it with anything this time.
<Good>
Its been three to four weeks and I can only see a few signs of white spot on some of my fishes' fins. They are all eating except for the Emperor.
I would have assumed that it was just another bout of white spot but my regal tang who is usually riddled with it is absolutely clear and not scratching one bit.
The Emperor isn't scratching, but visits the cleaner wrasse and shrimp often. he also has cloudy eyes and it seems as if there are some stringy bits around his eye. His fins look a bit frayed and he is covered in white patches (see photo). I gave him a FW dip two days ago but couldn't see any flukes. It also didn't seem to change his behaviour at all.
He is in a 125g FOWLR
<Needs more room than this... particularly if you're going to keep the Holacanthus ciliaris with it... At least twice this volume. I'd get a 300 gallon plus>
 along with 1x 5yr old Regal Tang, Adolescent Queen Angel (not sure of age), 3 x yellow tangs (Medium size), 1 x Auriga butterfly, 1 x blue cheek goby, 1 x cleaner wrasse, 3 x small ocellaris clowns, and a neon goby. Also have 2 x cleaner shrimp and a pumpkin urchin.  (I'm upgrading in the next two months, but for real.:))
<Ahh! Or separate the Angels>>
I also recently added a bi-colour angel and a Naso tang
<... there's no room for more fish/es here... and you have a still resident/active Crypt infestation>
(both quarantined for six weeks) and they died within three days after being added. Soon after that one of my blue cheeks died and this is when the Angel stopped eating.
Water parameters:
Ph: 8,2 , Alk: 10.0, Sal: 1,020,
<Too low...>

 Nitrate: 10-25, Nitrite: 0, Ammonia: 0, Temp: 24 - 28 degrees (on very hot days)
System: 125g with sump, Super Reef XP-5000 Ext cone skimmer, phosphate reactor.
<Not a fan; see WWM re>

(I usually run ozone through an ozone reactor but the ozonizer has malfunctioned and I'm waiting for it to be replaced). I've just ordered a chiller as I've been getting some temperature spikes of up to 28 degrees Celsius.
<Ok>
I'm currently dosing with  Metronidazole.
<Shouldn't/can't be used continuously... see WWM re... Stop!>

 I'm doing some extra water changes and adding stability and Special blend.
I'm also dosing with some VITC and VITM in hopes that it might supplement his diet. I suspected Velvet as well,
<No; all fishes would be dead>
 but my I got my LFS owner to come and take a look and he couldn't see any signs on it on the other fishes.
I'm incredibly attached to this fish as he's been there since the start of my tank. ( Just over a year ago).
Thanks so much!
<... Well, the best course of action is to move the Emperor elsewhere.... where it will be less stressed. I encourage you to use Spectrum pelleted food as a staple... And stop medicating. Bob Fenner>

Emperor Angel... hlth. 1/13/11
Hi Crew,
<Dustin>
My new 3" Emperor Angel has been in quarantine for about 5 weeks now. The quarantine is a 55 gallon with 2 powerheads with sponge filters, 2 pvc pipes, and an airstone. It that has been running for over 4 months and has housed fish before the Emperor. The water parameters are SG:1.025, Temp:75, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, and Nitrate:<5. I treated the Emperor with Cupramine for Ich upon receiving him for 2 weeks and it cleared up well. For the next two weeks I did frequent water changes and used activated carbon to remove the copper. He has been eating well the entire time I have had him. He eats a combination of Formula 1 and 2, Spirulina flakes, Angel Formula, and Nori sheets. Everything is soaked in Selcon or Zoecon before feeding (I switch back and forth).
<Good>
My problem is that he has developed cloudy fins over the past week that keep getting worse and are now fraying pretty bad. During this time I have done 20% water changes every other day. I removed the carbon 2 days ago as this seems to be the problem. I noticed when cleaning the sponge filters that they were full of carbon powder and upon rinsing them the water turned very black. This means that there is very fine powder covering every thing in the tank, every though I really can't see it very much. The fish is still attentive, eating, and swimming around pretty well, but the fins are getting very bad and kind of disintegrating.
<I'd move this fish... to the main display>
I have become so worried that the carbon powder is poisoning him that I put him into my 210 gallon.
<Oh, good>
The water has the same temperature and specific gravity. Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all 0. The only other fish in the tank is a 5" Scribbled Angel that has completely ignored the Emperor. I hope this was not the wrong move. My thinking is that the better water quality will help him regain his health. He was otherwise completely healthy before this so I was not worried about introducing anything into my display.
1. Is this thinking correct?
<Seems to be>
2. What else can I do to help him recover?
<Just "good care">
3. I need to completely clean out the quarantine and start over with it clean for all future fish, correct?
<Mmm, not necessarily... I would do what you can practically do to remove the carbon powder though>
Thank you very much for you help! I appreciate it greatly!
Dustin
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>
Re: Emperor Angel, hlth. 1/15/11

Hi Bob,
<Dust>
Thank you again for your help, the Emperor seems to be doing better in the main tank.
<Takes time... weeks, months>
His fins aren't recovering much yet, but they have stopped getting worse. He has been attentive and eating as well, so those are good signs. My Scribbled ignored him for the first day or so and now today seems a little aggressive towards the Emperor. I am hoping that will subside after they are acquainted. There are plenty of hiding spots for the Emperor to stay out of the way of the Scribbled for now so I am not worried about that.
<Ok>
I have a couple more questions for you if that is alright? I have been doing
quite a bit of reading on Palette Tangs on both your site and other sites.
You usually recommend a good starting size for fish when purchasing them, but I have not found an answer for Palettes. I know they come in many different sizes including very small. Should I be buying the not too big and not too small that you seem to apply frequently to other fish?
<Paracanthurus are caught, sold at all sizes... can be started very small (an inch or two), but I prefer 3 or so inches as best all the way around>
I am considering getting more than one for my 210, but am wondering if I can do 2 or if 3 will be necessary to spread any aggression?
<Mmm, I would not really... can be found in the wild in small groups, but generally better solo in captive settings>
I know they will all need to be introduced simultaneously, so if I get more than one should they all be the same size or should I get different sizes?
I hope I have not overlooked the answers to this on the site, and if I have
I do apologize. Thank you again for your time and effort!
Dustin
<Welcome! BobF>

Re: Yawning and Shaking Head of Volitans Lion, and Emperor Angel color Dear Bob, <Wendy> First of all, thank you for the advice on my lion - he is doing so much better!!!  Maybe he was just going through a phase - sometimes I think I'm dealing with a two year old!!!  LOL  Anyway, I wanted to thank you for that. <Welcome and great to hear of your Lion's recovery> However, now I have what I think is a problem with my Imperator Angel (Pomacanthus imperator).  He's not a juvenile and didn't buy him as such. The fish store said that he was caught as an adult. <Mmm, hopefully as a youngster with adult coloration... adapt to captivity much better> He had beautiful color when I got him and now it is really fading quick.  It started off as small watch colorless patches - it's not Lymphocystis where the patches are more clumpy - this is definitely a color loss on his part.  I've been feeding him plenty of algae (processed sheets), Spirulina, brine shrimp, omega 3 brine shrimp, angel and butterfly mixes, marine cuisine, and color enhanced flake foods.  I don't think he's sick because his appetite is HUGE!!!  Plus, he's been eating the slime algae that keeps assimilating on the sides of the glass like crazy - could that be it? <Mmm, maybe> He's in with three scissortail damsels - and they are only 1.5 inches - he's about four inches!  All of his water parameters are fine - the salinity is 1.022, temp is 76, nitrate is zero, nitrite is zero, and ammonia is zero. Also his pH is 8.2. <I would definitely raise your specific gravity up to about near seawater strength (1.025)... and soak the non-dry foods in Selcon or equivalent... adding "mud" to your sump filtration, more live rock... might improve water quality, the fish's health, appearance as well> Please help - I don't want to lose him if he is sick!!! Thanks! Suzanne <The Angel may be simply "stressed"... there is room for this fish, places for it to hide out of your sight I hope/trust. Bob Fenner>

The Emperor's New Illness? Hi, <Hello! Scott F. with you> Love the site , recommend to my fish loving friends. I have a 3 1/2  juvenile Emperor angel supposedly from the Red Sea! How can I tell in juvenile form? <The juvenile form is a "semi-circular" pattern of white on blue, designed to camouflage the fish in the dappled light on the reef.> Anyway, it has two problems  1) Continually gets a single dot of  ich , no other fish has had any signs. This has been going on for 3 weeks. Tank is coppered. Levels are steady ( seems he is recreating ich rather than having it jump back on, theory based on copper levels.) <Not sure of that one. It's not good to leave a fish in copper for an extended period of time. You may want to try some freshwater dips in addition to the copper, as these can help alleviate the symptoms> 2)For 2 weeks now has a cottony growth on head above eye . . no signs of  holes, behavior is normal , I'm not treating infection at this time, if that's what it is!!!! Note: had fish, mail ordered to me about 7 weeks ago , quarantined for 21 days w/o any problems. went into main tank got, picked on for a day, broke out with ich ,4 days later, and I coppered tank. <Not a great idea to use copper in the display tank...I hope that you are implying that you used copper in the extra (quarantine) tank? Be sure that you are maintaining a proper therapeutic level of copper, in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. The cottony growth sounds fungal to me. Many of these fungal maladies go away by simply maintaining excellent water quality in the tank. If that doesn't work, medical intervention may be needed.> Water conditions are fine! Tank size 135 gal. tankmates are Sohal Tang juvenile, Blueline Trigger juvenile, Thanks, Bart <Well, Bart, if you are already treating with copper, keep a careful eye on the fish, and keep up those excellent water conditions. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Making A Tough Call (Recovering Fish) Dear Scott, <Hi there!> Its me again. I'm sorry to disturb you again. I previously wrote to you regarding my emperor angel not using one of its gills. Thank GOD for answering prayer. It is OK now. It is not only breathing with both gills, but breath with ease ( 88 per min as compared to 120 per min just few days ago). <Really happy to hear that!> Its Ich or Velvet seems to be under control for now... eating is normal, breathing is normal, cloudy eyes starts to be clearer.... It is such joy to see it showing positive signs of recovery so fast, though not completely. That CU did help. Thanks!! <I'm glad that it's working for you!> I did NOT use Octozin on it as I suggested in my previous mail. Nor did I transfer it back to display tank.  As it was a weekend & I did not get reply from you in time, I made a decision to retard the Cu treatment in hospital tank as I am more concerned of the water quality now that the angel's sickness is under control. I got a cleaner shrimp for it in the hospital tank. It helps a lot. <Good decision...> The tank was NOT medicated now. BUT, water quality is measured as Amm= 0.6 (reduced from 0.8 yesterday) , Nitrite = 0.25. Emperor shows no stress yet. Neither does the shrimp. Instead, I am the one that's stressed.... Following your advice, I have been changing water  twice daily: between 20% - 45% each time. Mostly from water from display tank though I mixed from time to time with freshly made saltwater. Obviously the cycling happens now. I also have a Polyfilter & sponges from main display as stated previously. I need your helpful opinion on the situation I am in now. Having read all these abt toxic ammonia & nitrite, I am so tempted to move it back to main display & let the hospital tank goes through a quick cycle before I take it back to hosp tank to treat again OR I should stick it out & brave through the cycle with these maddening water changes conducted daily. Is this a tough one? It is for me. I don't mind to brave it out, only if I know what's the tolerance limit of Amm & nitrite for both cleaner & Emperor. Has any one that you know had similar experience in the past?   <Yep...it is a tough call. It sounds horrible, as each life is precious- but I'd rather risk one fish then put the entire population at risk if you return the fish to the display. Keep at those water changes, use the Polyfilter, "kick start" the filtration with a "bacteria in a bottle" product if you must.> Sorry for rushing two letters in this short weekend to you & contradicting my stands in both. I hope for your understanding. Thanks again for your help, as usual. Best regards. <No apologies necessary at all! You made a very tough call and it seems to be working in your favor! Just stay on top of things; do your best to keep the water quality as high as possible, and be prepared to take any action you deem necessary to save this beautiful fish's life. Good luck the rest of the way! Regards, Scott F.>

Imperator Guys I bought a 5" Imperator from my LFS last week who had him for only a few days.  When you try to catch this guy he sinks to the bottom of the tank and curls up into what can only be described as a fetal position. After playing dead, all of his color drains.  If that's not enough, he has Ich so I am treating him with copper.  The problem lies in his coloration.  Even 24 hours after catching him and acclimating him to the QT, his color is blanched in various spots.  Craziest thing is that the places seem to change from time to time.  I have yet to see him without some parts of his body washed out.  Do you believe that this is a reaction to stress (new surroundings, movement, copper) or some type of bacterial infection?  Thanks as always. Joe <Definitely stress.  Provide some plastic hiding places and reduce the lighting to relieve stress. Move slowly and give him some time, stress can kill, be careful!  Test copper twice a day and make sure you stay on top of water quality in the QT.  Craig>

Off-color Imperator Greetings all. How is the weather in your area? Good I hope. All is well here in Florida. <dude... its December and I'm in Pittsburgh> On to my woes . . . I have been quarantining a gorgeous Emperor Angelfish for about 5 weeks now. Initially I gave him ich by doing a water change with ich-infested main tank water (my two tangs got ich due to a temperature fluctuation with has been corrected). I coppered him for one week with little to no improvement. <for future reference please know that angels are extremely sensitive to copper. Very fine line between cure and kill. I recommend formalin and FW dips instead here> BTW,  am doing 2-3 gallon water changes every other day with freshly mixed (and aerated x 24 hours) saltwater SPS 1.019 - 1.021. I am doing freshly mixed changes due to not be able to use the ich-infested water in main tank. The symptoms are gone now, but still doing fresh changes waiting to break ich life cycle. <excellent> After Copper Safe x 1 week, I replaced the carbon for two days and did 50% water change.  Next I tried Murex. That did absolutely NO GOOD, in fact he got worse. Now with splotches of white one his body. Carbon and 50% water change. Next I tried Greenex. <Aiiiieeeee!> He improved slightly. After three every other day treatments I started fresh water dips x 3 days. <FW dips better... easy on the drugs there dealer-man> The freshwater dips have worked wonders. <Oh, ya... as they should> He looked great three days ago. Therefore I stopped the fresh water dips. Tonight he has more ich on his pectoral fins and white splotches on his body . . . AGAIN!! What can I possibly do next? <no more drugs please. Without ever having touching a med, Ich can be cured in a bare bottomed QT tank with a single FW dip and floor siphon every day for 8 consecutive days (breaks life cycle of parasite). Tried and true.> I have treated this poor fish with just about everything I can think of.  <over treated my friend... the meds might kill him in the 2 months picture as some stored in fat cells get used up. Delayed overdose> I am afraid I am going to kill him with kindness. <I admire your hard work here greatly. Simply maintain good water quality, a quiet stable QT tank, and do the 8 day FW dip and floor siphon (5-10%) each day. All will be fine likely> He still eats very well, and behaves normally. Help. John Michael PS. The main tank has been symptom-free for three weeks. I was planning on putting him in the main tank this weekend, but I don't want to now that he his "sick" again., <there is no possible way that fish can go in now. They need to be 2 weeks disease free before entry. That means he is at least 3 weeks away. Best regards, Anthony>

Listing emperor angel Hi Bob, thanks for your reply. Sorry to pester you so often with so many queries .......... this will be the last mail for ages .... I promise. <No worries> If I need to move my clown trigger in order to be able to get cleaner shrimp, then I will, but I would rather avoid that if at all possible......he was a gift, as well as the fact I really like him .... but if he has to go, then so be it. You mentioned other facultative cleaners, other than shrimps, namely you suggested I looked at the small Bodianus wrasse, and Heniochus butterfly. I have also considered the 4 line red sea cleaner wrasse. Are there any other possible species to consider ?  <Many... do I list them on my symbiosis piece on the WWM site? Otherwise, am sure the Net searching would turn up exhaustive naming.> In your opinion, not including shrimps, what are the best facultative cleaners ??? <For a large Triggerfish? Maybe the Hogs/Bodianus or juvenile Angelfishes...> I assume that neon gobies would be eaten by the trigger, and maybe even my angels !!! Will Heniochus remain facultative cleaners into adulthood, or only as young fish, and would they be able to get into the gills of my emperor ??? <The gobies might well persist... as they're often identified as cleaners rather than food...> He is only 5" ? How about the Bodianus wrasses ....... could you suggest a few suitable species, preferably ones that continue cleaning into adulthood. <None into adulthood... axillaris, anthioides... others if more available, less pricey...> My emperor is seems to be displaying the gill flaring more and more, so I am anxious to get something sorted out ..... I am going to move the trigger short term, and put the shrimps in the tank ....... but that will only work for a limited time .... I am really looking for a more long term solution. I would appreciate your opinion on the best facultative cleaner for the job. Lastly, on a different note, while looking at the web page on Bodianus wrasse at wet web media, I see that the Cuban hogfish is a facultative cleaner while young. But I presume he would get too big to be an effective cleaner as an adult ? <Just don't clean when older/larger...> In any case, I would be interested in this species regardless of cleaning. You mention they are seasonally available .... when is the "season" ??? <About now for the next few months... affected by weather, collecting conditions, need for money by diver/collectors...> Thanks again for all your help. I really appreciate it, and I will not be bothering you again for a while (unless an emergency occurs !!!). Regards Matt (Co. Cork, Ireland) <Again, never a bother. Bob Fenner>

Re: Emperor Angel (internal parasite problem?) Hi Bob, thanks for your reply. I couple of questions. I read up as much as I can find on the treatments listed below. In most cases it is preferred not to use any of these due to their toxicity. Is there anyway that something like this will pass? or will it just get worse? <Hmm, fin rot (almost always water quality related), yes, with time, optimized conditions... and often yes about the internal difficulties> One other thing, will trying to get him to eat fresh garlic work/help? <A lot of people endorse this approach. Don't think it harms the animals... I cook with this family of plants extensively... Bob Fenner> Thanks again! Chris

Imperator Angel (Lymphocystis, John Milton's lament) I recently picked up a small Imperator Angel approximately 4" in length. I purchased him with having Lymphocystis at the time, the shop owner was going to flush him, and he was doing well up till 2 days ago. I was feeding him Brine Shrimp soaked in Zoe and occasionally Formula Two. He has quit eating. He is in a 10 Gallon Med tank, with a simple over the back. I can add a sponge filter that has been floating in my sump for a while for just such an occasion. I read at FFExpress that perhaps a water change and live rock would help so I have done that. I am also shopping around to find someone who sells Ocean Nutrition Angel Food, I read it is mostly a sponge base food source. I knowingly picked up the animal ill, but I saved him from a flushing, what can I do to keep him alive? <Place this animal in your main display tank... there is very little chance it will "pass" the lymph on to other fishes... and very good chance it will perish soon otherwise> I have already spent quite a few hours simply staring at him in the tank and trying to talk him into eating, but I have has no such luck. I have a sincere problem about caring to much for Marine Fish.  <Is there such a thing? I refer you to the writings of John Donne... "If a clod be washed from England's shore..."> I am always picking up sick fish and curing them. I am getting better all the time and I know that I am doing some good by saving just a few animals doomed otherwise.  <Perhaps they are in turn saving you> This is my first angel and I must say they are somewhat more difficult than I had expected. I thought a case of Lymphocystis would be a piece of cake to heal from all the information I had read, and I am still sure I can cure him if he would help by eating. All the water parameters are fine. 0's on Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonium. Ph is 8.3 and water is 79-80 degrees. Lighting is timed with 2 24" fluorescents. Help me Mr. Fenner. I have a great deal of respect for you and hope to meet you one day to express all you have done for me and my hobby. Your book is my favorite and quite beaten and dog-eared on the pages that the binding still holds. <Do place this animal in larger, more settled quarters... soak foods with a liquid vitamin preparation and iodide... the viral infection it has is an environmental "disorder", imbalance... strengthen it psycho-emotionally by improving its environment, nutrition, and in turn it will cure itself internally. Bob Fenner> Sincerely, Joseph M Howell

Splotchy white areas. Thanks for the answer yesterday on feeding my Emperor, Well now I have another....sorry. I've had this Emperor for about two weeks now and he's doing great. He eats everything I put in there now and if anything my tangs are now getting the shaft. But there is one last problem....and it may be a bit serious. I HAVE had parasitic infestations in the past as I have bothered you guys about before. Once I got a UV sterilizer I achieved a "detente" as Bob so eloquently put it. My established fish have been spotless since and new additions usually get a little something during the first few weeks and they get through it. Seems the UV sterilizer breaks the cycle so when the parasites drop off they don't usually get a chance to re-infest. Well my Emperor got something.....definitely some ich, and maybe (I pray not) some Oodinium. I say the latter because of a haze he had over his eyes. I said I would never use "Kick Ich" and "Rally" again but I gave one dose of each so he would slough off what was on him and perhaps he wouldn't get reinfected. It seemed to work, but now he has something that I've never seen before. He has many white splotches on him. They don't look like parasites, but more like circles of discoloration. I'll estimate they are 2mm around.  <These markings are very likely from the treatment... and will go away in time... on their own... take care to maintain good water quality, proper mixed nutrition... and all should be fine> He eats like a champ and is the most outgoing fish I have ever owned. He gets red, green, brown algae, formula one, angel formula, and frozen mysids.......he eats better then me!!  I fear that I have velvet, although the times that I've seen it, it was never in individual circles like I have it now. I've always seen it as a consistent haze over the fish that ends up killing from the gills on out, not to mention the fish are usually visibly sick which this one is not. Any ideas? Could these be marks from where there "were" parasites? Either way I'm doing a mega water change tomorrow. Thanks for more of your time gentlemen....I look forward to your reply. <Patience my friend. Keep your eyes on the prize. Bob Fenner>
Re: EMPEROR
Thanks Bob Turn's out last night I figured out how to feed him anyway. I just put it right in his mouth! He comes to the top and takes it right out of my hand. I also noticed another more serious problem last night that I knew would appear. I emailed you a long time ago and told you that with my UV sterilizer I felt I had "won" the battle. You told me to call it more of a "detente". You were right. All my est. fish have been clean ever since but new additions usually end up with a few parasites for the first 2 weeks. Nothing compared to the way it was before the UV though and once they are clean they usually stay that way. Well last night I noticed my new emperor had a bunch on his eyes and elsewhere. Hopefully now that he is eating a full and diverse diet every day he will get through this period. If he doesn't I may have to go out and drink something! <A good idea all the way around. Relax my friend. Bob Fenner>

Angelfishes for  Marine Aquariums
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