Need Help with Sick Emperor Angel... env... Crypt  1/10/08
Hi Crew,
<Jim>
I need your help. I woke up this morning and my Emperor Angel is bloated around the belly and swimming hard to stay down in the water column. From what I have read on your website that is likely a bacterial infection. But I am not sure how to proceed with treatment.
<Mmmm>
Let me describe the sequence of events: The tank is a 150G (long), Fish Only, Wet/Dry (I know, not the best, but it has been set up for almost 12 years and I haven't wanted to mess with it), Berlin protein skimmer (again, I know, not the best and scheduled for replacement--but it has seemed to work adequately on this non-reef aquarium), Vecton UV sterilizer. Had six fish before emperor--raccoon BF, large Foxface (have had 7+ years--how long do they live?),
<At least 10-12>
Volitans lion, pair of bluejaw trigger, small v-tail grouper.
>Yikes... packed in!<
The grouper was the newest fish--added this spring. Nothing else in the he last two years. When I got the butterfly, direct from a diver in Hawaii, it seemed to have a small white spot on its side--looked like it might be an external parasite.
<No worries>
It wasn't growing or seeming to affect the fish, so I left it alone. Don't know if that was the right call or not--but over the years I think my efforts at "treating" sick fish have done more harm than good, so I try to adopt a "wait and see" approach.
<You are wise here>
In November, the spots began to multiply and get larger. I would have liked to add a biological cleaner, but couldn't figure out anything the lion wouldn't eat. I finally removed the fish to a QT tank with a cleaner goby, who went to town.
<Ah, good>
For Christmas, my wife bought me the emperor--I've been wanting one for years. Fish arrived FedEx, very healthy. I acclimated him straight into the display--I know, QT is of vital importance, but my only QT at present is a 20G, and I wouldn't have wanted to QT a 7" angel
<... Jim... your main tank is way too crowded...>
in a 20 even if the BF weren't already there. I am working on procuring and setting up a 55G QT. I noticed a day or two later that the emperor was only using one gill about half the time. Then after about a week, the emperor developed a case of ich. I immediately lowered specific gravity to 1.009, and dosed with OrganiCure (not sure I should have done the OrganiCure in retrospect, but I was extremely anxious). Emperor was clearly distressed and his eyes clouded up slightly, but was still eating well and breathing almost normally, and about 24-48 hours after I lowered the specific gravity everything seemed to improve. I know that the cysts would have fallen off anyway as part of their life cycle. I also know they could come raging back in two or three weeks,
<Sooner>
but I am hoping the UV and the lowered SG will mitigate against this. I also saw a couple spots on the BF too (I had just returned him before the outbreak, possibly prematurely, but again--he is large and a 20G can only be stable with a 5" fish for so long), but nobody else seemed affected. Everyone was doing great, emperor was cleared up except for the slightly cloudy eyes, which I attributed to the stress
<And the medication... the formalin principally>
of the ich and which were slowly improving. Then this morning I got up to find the emperor swimming hard for the bottom, very bloated.
<... yes...>
Water parameters have been good in the past--Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate => 10 ppm. I don't check alkalinity, calcium, etc. since it is FO. I will check the main parameters after work this afternoon, and perform a 20% water change as a general measure (there was of course a massive water change when I lowered the SG). What else can I do?
<... really? Move all to larger or more "spread out" quarters...>
Should I really put the fish through the stress of trying to remove him (there's a lot of rockwork) and QT in a 20G tank? Medicate food with antibiotics?
<Not efficacious>
Just keep water quality good and wait?
<This would be best... if there was more space...>
Please advise--I don't want to lose this fish after waiting 5 years to get one.
Thank again for your help.
Jim
<... the Emperor alone needs more than 150 gallons... Don't think it will do enough good to ask you to read on WWM re Pomacanthus imperator... or the "origins" of Crypt... but the situation you're in is predictable from your statements above... No quarantine, the use of OrganiCure, the crowding... Do you see this? I would move as many of the fishes here to other quarters as practical... and, yes... read on WWM re the above mentioned topics... then, let's chat. Bob Fenner>

Re: Need Help with Sick Emperor Angel   1/11/08
Bob,
<Jim>
I do read WWM quite a bit... I have for years. And contrary to what you apparently think, I do try to take responsible care of my animals.
<Mmmm... I made no such comment re your motive, activity/ies other than to state your system is too crowded...>
And I do try to keep adult size needs in mind, too--hence I have not had any Naso species tangs in 10+ years since I became aware of their long-term needs.
The fact that most of my fish have been with me 4+ years, and in many cases much longer, seems to suggest that I am doing okay overall.
<Good>
I didn't realize that six fish (now seven) was overcrowding a 150G tank, <Yes... psychologically, and from your numbers on water quality measure, from the standpoint of taxing your maintenance/gear>
especially since none of these fish seem to have "territory" issues with each other.
<They're established...>
The Pomacanthus page on WWM says nothing specific about size, and the general angelfish page only says "as large a system as possible."
Looking for more specifics, Marine Center says that the minimum tank size is 55G (ridiculously small), LiveAquaria says 100G, which I still think is inadequate, and Aquacon says 125G.
<For a/the record... I'll say a (stock size) 240, or three hundred gallon for long term care of this species>
I just realized you had a separate page dedicated to Pomacanthus imperator, and I see you recommend a minimum 400L to begin with, and ultimately twice that, which according to my math is 200G. So I guess by that criterion, 150G is too small.
<With the other life present especially>
I just thought 150G would be adequate, though I wouldn't really want to try anything smaller.
In fact, the 150G was specifically purchased so that I could keep this species. How many fish (large fish--I know size is important) are permissible in a 150G tank?
<... a good question... in that it's not easily answered. At least two criteria need to be considered... The physiological "load" such a volume can take/handle safely and just as important the "psychological" load any given mix might present... Thinking on this... what is there must be taken into account AS WELL as order of introduction... how many other factors might we co-reason? Feeding, physical break-up of the environment... "enriched" aspects of water quality control... might all "stretch" or reduce the size/possibilities here>
If we are shooting for "natural" conditions, then I need a tank the size of my house per fish!
<Mmm, maybe so... but this is unrealistic... am sure you agree. What I and other folks are "shooting for" is keeping our livestock that way... for a reasonable span of time... as displays mostly>
Unfortunately, my vocation requires periodic relocations, though never outside the state, so there is a limit to the size tank I can reasonably have--big tanks are no fun to move.
<Don't I know...>
So I have different tanks with different animal populations in mind--a 150G long for my large fish, a 150G show for my LPS, a 72BF for my soft corals and anemone, and a 55G in my office for a few small, more docile fish like a Firefish and a small Anthias. And soon a 55G QT in addition to the present 20G.
<Nice>
I do generally quarantine all my fish, but I have never purchased a fish this large before (some, like the Foxface, have gotten that big in my tanks, but were not purchased at that size), and the 20G made me nervous, not that it matters now. I have also read up on crypts, repeatedly. Unfortunately, I am not always sure what to believe. I have generally tried to use QT with hyposalinity, because my experience is, as WWM suggests, that this is the best (only?) real solution. The OrganiCure was only an (ill-advised?)
<Mmm, no... not knowing you well, what language we share meaning-wise, am given to state that the active ingredients in this commercial product have real value... in applications of use to hobbyists as well as commercial concerns... Have used many gallons myself...>
move of desperation. I have also tried letting a tank go "fallow," as suggested. My 55G at the office was infected a couple years ago, so I removed and (re)quarantined all the fish, leaving the live rock, starfish and camel shrimp in the tank alone for over two months. The fish were QT in hyposalinity only, and quickly recovered. When I placed them back in the tank over two months later, they became reinfected in about two weeks. I had expected the life cycle of the parasite to run its course by then. All I can figure is that some encapsulated cysts had gone dormant?
<Very likely so>
Anyway, I do try to take responsible care of my charges. I am sorry that your opinion of my care is so low.
<Again... this is not the case>
As an update on the emperor--he was not doing well, and seemed to be getting worse, so I drained my 20G QT and filled it with water from the display tank. After reading your article about the Koi that got the "bends," I started thinking about the rapid change in osmotic pressure when I lowered the salinity from 1.021 to 1.009, so I raised it a little (1.012) in the QT tank before I moved the emperor.
I then treated with the recommended dosage of Maracyn and Maracyn 2, hoping that one of the antibiotics would be effective. By evening, the bloating had begun to subside and the fish was swimming right side up. The next morning he was eating again, and is doing fine now. I plan to finish out the round of antibiotics and then return him to the display, assuming everything is stable in both tanks and there is no sign of further ich/illness.
Jim
<Wishing you and your Emperor well. BobF>

Imperator Angelfish not eating, help please, thanks in advance, "Fix" f'   7/12/07
Good Day,
First, thank you very much for your service that you provide. My question is my Imperator Angel is not eating. I received the fish about 5 days a go, and the size is about 6-7 inches.
<Mmm, a bit larger than ideal... large/r specimens don't ship, adapt as well as ones a bit smaller (3-4" overall length or so) to captive conditions>
He is nice and fat as well. I have him in a 150 gallon tank, with a Niger trigger,
<This may be a factor>
a snow flake eel (8 inches), a yellow belly damsel, and a coral beauty about 3 inches. I have the following tank setup: All water parameters test good, temperature is constantly around 78 -80 degrees. 150 lb.s of live rock, 150 gallon SeaClone skimmer, 1"-2" layer of crush coral for a bed, 10 gallon tank connected to the sump filled with Chaetomorpha, a 18 watt UV sterilizer, and a few pieces of live rock where the bio balls used to be. Salinity is 1.023. Also, have a bag of carbon setting in the sump. Also, have an air stone running on the left side of the tank to provide plenty of oxygenated water.
I have tried feeding him frozen mysis shrimp, krill, Nori, flakes, pellets, and clam bits from the grocery store.
<Good...>
Tried a mix of the foods listed with garlic guard, and still no luck. I did place a strip of Nori on a clip on the glass, but all he did was go up to the Nori and investigate it.3 I did notice to day that he was breathing heavy on the right side gill and not using the left side. I did change out 60 gallons three days ago.
Any suggestions would be great. I really want to stay away from medications and Pima and Mela fix.
<Worthless>
I have always lost fish when I used these products.
Again, thanks in advance,
Stuart
<Five days is actually too short a time to really begin worrying... I would keep trying the assortment you list... perhaps adding a whole, opened small bivalve... and soaking in a vitamin prep.... these also double as appetite stimulants. Bob Fenner>

Re: Imperator Angelfish not eating, help please, thanks in advance... Laziness, apathy, poor directions on WWM or?   7/14/07
Good Day,
<Stuart>
 had a friend come over that used to work at the North Carolina Aquarium;
he said that my Imperator Angel has marine velvet. He is using only one gill and his colors are starting to fade a little. I am still not having any luck in him eating. What do you suggest for treating?
Thank you very much for your help.
Stuart Neas
<... again... all this is posted... Learn to/use the indices and search tool... You could have known what to do had you looked: http://wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>

Emperor Angle is Sick!!! Crypt Most Likely 6/26/07
Hey guys
<Hello>
I bought a adult Emperor Angle, 5 inches, a few weeks ago and he’s getting white spots all over him and also really tiny white spots on the eyes.
<Sounds like Ich, Cryptocaryon irritans, to me.>
Everyone else in the tank is doing fine my toxic ammonia is at 0.014 I did a 25 % water change and its still reading the same. He’s eating but acting kinda funny twitching and stuff. I read about lowering the sp gravity. What do you think I should do? I’m setting up my quarantine tank now, <This is what you should do.> I know I should of did that a long time ago and I’m kicking my self in the butt rite now for not doing it. But this will be my schooling on that one!!!! Is there any fast set ups on the Q tank I can do to get him rite in there? <Yes, just need to do daily water changes.> Any meds I can use in the main tank without killing my liverock? <No> I know you have the info on the site but it would take me awhile to find it and I don’t want to lose him!!! Please help him!!!
Thanks a lot Todd
<Lots to read here. Start here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm , here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm , and here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm .>
<Chris>

Re: Emperor Angle is Sick!!! Crypt Most Likely 6/27/07
Hello again
<Hello>
I've got my Emperor and everything else in a quarantine tank with copper. <Good, watch the copper levels very closely.> The emperor already looks 100 times better. <Good.>Since the copper messes with the bio filter is it even necessary to use a filter during copper med? <Not really, but you do need water movement, which the filter can supply.> Cuz you don’t want charcoal, mech filter or the bio media when copper is in use? <Correct.> No protein skimmer either? <Nope> Just lots of water changes? <Yep> I just have Tank with bare bottom, pvc for hiding, powerhead for water movement, heater, thermometer, and a air pump with air stone. Do I have everything I need? <Yes> In my reading I've read that to quarantine for 2 to 4 weeks to see if fish has any sickness effects but I also read the some fish are just carriers of ick and do not show any problems. <Will still be cured by the copper. They just don't show the normal signs of white spots. Also looking for a absolute minimum of 4 weeks symptom free after the treatment ends before adding back to the tank, 6 weeks would be much better.> So if you put a fish after he was fine during quarantine, that is a carrier, in main display, a fish that is more prone to
the disease will probably get it right? <They are not really just carriers, their gills are infected and are lower functioning, but not visually effected.> Why don’t you just treat every fish in a copper quarantine just to make sure? <You should after an outbreak in a tank they live in.> Except those you cant use copper on, what kind of med do you use on copper intolerant fish for preventive measures? <As far as preventative measures go, I do not recommend them, even copper is quite toxic to fish, and unnecessary exposure is not a good idea. Kind of like getting chemotherapy for cancer "just in case" you have it.>
I have 6 fish in a 29 gal quarantine tank, Emperor is 5" the rest 1" to 3 "
Should I be doing a 20% water change everyday? <Most likely necessary, test for ammonia/nitrite and change accordingly.>
Before I coppered my fish I Did a freshwater bath, I raised the ph and temp to the same as display tank and put them in there for 3 to 5 minutes.
Everyone was alright except my tang like went into shock and froze up but
was fine after I put him in the quarantine tank. Did I do the bath rite? <Seems like it.> Is there anything else you can dip/bath newcomers before quarantine that’s a good all disease prevention? < Methylene Blue is a good thing to add to dips, can help with some diseases.>
Once nets, buckets, tank and supplies, etc are completely dry can they still
carry a disease on them? <No> If so what can I use to disinfect? <Hot water, a mild bleach solution.>
What do the pet stores use on new fish they just received so their whole stock doesn’t get anything from a sick fish. <The vast majority of stores use nothing, a few run copper continuously, and even fewer QT their fish.> All their tanks are hooked to the same filtration at most petstores, and I read that UV helps to keep the parasites down but not totally get rid of them. <Yes.> What measures do the petstores and the big wholesalers use so they don’t get the whole fish stock sick? <As stated above, most use nothing.> And I don’t think they quarantine every fish in a separate tank, that would be alot of work but would probably be the safest!! <Would be, but probably not cost effective.>
Also how do the tanks take the bioload changes from selling out and then adding a huge stock over and over again, or does it not effect the water as long as its only a week or so before they get a full stock in again. <Most store's bioload does not change that much over time, a pretty constant addition/subtraction going on.> I would think the bacteria colonies would start to die off as the stock got down to 5 to 10 fish from like 50 to 100, and then as the bacteria start to die then there's 100 fish again. <You assume most have good water quality to begin with, which is sadly not often the case.>
The web is the best!!!! I always learn alot on here, there's just so much
good stuff I never get to what I was looking for in the 1st place!!
If fish go to heaven, then you guys are the fish gods!!!!!
Thanks for all the info, Todd
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Re: Emperor Angle is Sick!!! Crypt Most Likely 6/26/07
Hello again
<Hi>
Thanks for the info! I read alot of the info you referred me to! Good Stuff!
<Welcome.>
So can marine ich come from just a fish getting stressed or does it have to be in the aquarium 1st and/ or the fish already being infected? <Must be present in the system first.> If I do the 45 day quarantine tank with meds and have no symptoms and do the 45 day no fish display tank, can the fish still be infected even though no signs are present during quarantine? <As long as the treatment is done correctly all of the parasites should be eliminated with this method, and reinfection can only occur if you accidentally add the parasite back somehow.> Can the display tank still be infected after the 45 days of no fish? <Unlikely, but the longer you wait the less likely it becomes, I try to do 60 days fallow to be extra safe.> Why does the ich not attack inverts? <Just not biologically capable of feeding off them, however they can carry ich tomonts so they should be QTed as well before adding to the tank.> So its ok to leave all my cleaning crew hermit crabs, snails, emerald crab and a flower duster in the display tank for the 45 days no fish period?
<Yes>
Thanks so much for the help!!!!! Todd
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Sick Imperator Angel - 3/23/07
Hey guys,
<And some wonderful gals, too! JustinN with you today.>
I need some help, quickly.
<Ok, I'll see what I can offer..>
My son has a 125 gallon reef tank that's about 2 months old.  
<This is still a very new, very immature tank.>
He bought a juvenile Imperator 2-3 weeks ago and he has been eating but has gotten really pale.  
<How large of an Imperator are we talking here, and furthermore, what color pattern does it bear? If it still has its banded coloration of youth, then the fading is part of the natural transition. These fish go through an amazing appearance change as they mature, as do many other marine angelfishes. Part of this transformation includes an awkward fade to white.>
His color seems to be draining out of him.  He is almost white.  
<Sounds like maturity to me, though hard to tell without a picture for certain.>
He is now down in a corner of the tank today and not looking great.  Breathing heavy and not moving much.  
<Hmm, peculiar indeed. Let me ask, is there any live rock in this aquarium? All species contained within will benefit from some, but the angel and tang will be ill-served, at least in my opinion, without some provided live rock for grazing.>
I checked his water and the levels look good- unless I am reading the stick wrong.  
<Stick? As in dip stick? Toss these things, please. Worth slightly more than bupkiss. Do move to a reliable liquid test, such as Seachem, Salifert, or Aquarium Pharmaceuticals -- for your sanity and your fishes sake! The strips you currently use are incredibly inaccurate, and are greatly affected by many environmental factors, making the results even less reliable.>
There are 2 gobies, a yellow Tang and 5 yellow tailed blue damsels in with him.  He seemed fine until today, just his color was fading.
<Quite a bit of life already in this tank, considering its age. I realize this is a big aquarium, and the natural instinct is to fill it teeming with life, however, this is not what is beneficial for your aquatic charges. This tank should have live rock in it, allowed to mature for 4-6 months, before you had even considered adding the yellow tang and the Imperator angelfish. These are both quite sensitive, and somewhat difficult to maintain fish, especially for beginners, due to their advanced requirements of space and dietary requirements.>
What do we need to do to save him, or make him happy
again! help!
<First, get some proper water testing equipment, or barring that, have a local fish store test the water quality, to get an accurate idea of what is going on in your tank. Second, if you're not already, you need to start providing some sea greens for your angel and tang, such as the many available preparations of Nori (the seaweed wraps typically used in the making of sushi). Beyond this, and the factors of the immature tank I spoke of previously, I don't see anything glaring that could be leading to a problem here. Hope this helps you! -JustinN>
Leslie- Pete's mom

Re: Rapid Breathing Emperor  1/26/07
Bob, thanks for your input on my "declining" situation. Yes, unfortunately this problem has gotten worse.  The day of your response my powder blue tang began to scratch on the rocks.  Just slight little brushes.  Nothing too aggressive, but still displaying some irritation.  He did this occasionally for about four days, and then I observed my emperor angel flash on one occasion.  NOT GOOD!  I performed a 20% water change.  I did this in hope that there was some kind of water quality issue that my test kit could not pick up.  I watch my fish very closely, and as of now it has been a few days since I have witnessed anything like this.
<Mmm... the Crypt will be back... is just cycling...>
  They are both eating very well and appear to be calm.  I have never seen a spot on either one of them.  If I was a betting man I would say that my emperor angel has been subclinically harboring parasites this whole time and once he was moved to the tank with my ich magnet they are beginning to gain the upper hand.
<Agreed>
  I understand about the life cycle of ich, and I am also aware that the apparent improvement is probably just ich (or some other pathogen) rallying the troops for another assault on my finned friends.
<Correct>
I guess because of the fact that I have yet to see any spots I am reluctant to treat these copper sensitive fish.  Am I just being ignorant by thinking that at this point I can beat this thing with good nutrition, vitamin supplements, garlic( unproven, I know), and good water quality.  Obviously this would be ideal, but I fear by doing this the situation could spiral out of control.  I have read and experienced first hand how fast these parasites can manifest themselves and kill.  My first fish, a auriga butterfly, died three days after showing spots.  I don't imagine the PBT will fair much better.  Bob, I regard your opinion t be the best available, and I could sure use it right now.
Thanks a bunch,
Jim
<A matter of a bunch of review, reading: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
and the many files above. BobF>

Emperor Angel With HLLE - 06/01/2006
Hey guys!  What are the common causes of Head and Lateral Line Disease for Marine Angels?  
<Primarily dietary deficiency....  Start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm and note that though freshwater HLLE is often caused by Hexamita, in marine fishes, it's almost always nutritional.>
I have a 4" Emperor with it and I am just racking my brains trying to find the cause.  Good thing is that he is healthy as a horse and has quite the appetite.  
<Ah, good.>
I have read that if I can find the cause and fix it that I can reverse its effect on the fish.  Is this true?  
<To an extent, yes.>
I have been feeding my Angel "Sally's San Francisco Bay Brand" frozen food for angel and butterfly.  He also gets Formula two, and on occasion brine shrimp plus and mysis shrimp.  I feed very generous amounts of red and green algae.  I have just today switched his Angel food with Hikari Mega Marine Angel frozen food.  It seemed to have more sponge in it.  
<Try Ocean Nutrition's foods, too.>
I also just today began soaking all the food in Zoe.  
<I would switch this to Selco/Selcon and/or Vita-Chem.>
It is not the water conditions.  I have awesome water quality.  Never any algae blooms, the tank is very mature.  The ph though is a little on the low side, 8.1...
<.... not awesome.>
it has always been this way no matter what I do or what I try (my husbands tank has the very same issue).  
<Please try to get to the bottom of this issue, raise to 8.3.>
I have had my fish for a very long time and the Angel is the only one showing ill health. That's why I suspected it may be a dietary issue?  
<Almost definitely.>
Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but my stocking list is 1- 6" Naso, a Sailfin Tang, 6 blue-green Chromis, an algae blenny, a flame angel, a pair of Sebae clowns and a black and silver cardinal.  They are in a 6' long 150 gallon tank.  They seem pretty tolerant of one another.  
<I see no real problems with this mix; good choices.>
Any help would be appreciated.
<If you don't already, consider having live rock in the aquarium, or if your rock is more than a few years old, consider switching some/much of it out for new.  This new rock would first need to be cured, of course, before adding to the established tank.>
Thanks, The Melendez Family
P.S.  How do I check for a reply?  I am not sure what this would be posted under or how to get there from the home page.  (Yes...I have to be spoon-fed lol).
<Will be posted.... under HLLE FAQs of all places!  Also on the dailies for a day, also replied to your email address.  We try to cover our bases (grin)>
Thanks again.
<Glad to be of service.  Wishing you well,  -Sabrina>

Emperor angel problem   2/23/06
Dear Bob and colleagues
Please help
I have a 100 gallon home display tank and a 200 gallon sump). There has been a sudden chain of events causing an issue with my tanks members, especially the 3 year old emperor angel.
My water parameters are as follows;pH8.2 , ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20ppm ,sg 1026 and temperature 24.7 centigrade. These were taken this morning before tank lights were switched on. Other hardware includes Deltec AP850 skimmer, phosphate (ROWAphos) fluidized filter and wet/dry filter (maybe why I cant get lower nitrates!)
<Likely, yes>
Following an ich outbreak on my C. Lunula, I treated the system with Myaxin solution for 5 days, but still lost him unfortunately. It has resulted in the emperor showing very distressed symptoms (rapid gill movements, loss of appetite and hiding away but no obvious bodily ich signs). During this period I lost an Anthias with no obvious causes but the remaining tank members seem fine (comprising 2 hawkfish, purple tang, blue tang, green Chromis and 3 convict blennies). The soft corals showed minor irritation but seem fine now.
When I switched the UV sterilizer(30Watt) back on, did this result in any toxic shock chemicals?
<Not likely>
I have now  tried a 30% water change and the addition of carbon filtration to try and improve matters but I am still most concerned about my emperor.
Are there any further suggestions you might offer?
Best regards
Dave K from the UK
<Not from the information provided. Have you read on WWM re this species? Please do so: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm
And the linked files above. Hopefully something will "pop up" here re your situation. Bob Fenner>
"The soft corals showed minor irritation but seem fine now. Are there any further suggestions you might offer?
Best regards
Dave K from the UK"
<Actually... on a moments reflection, the problem is likely the negative reaction you list re the soft corals... These are very likely poisoning your system, consequent from the Myxacin... I would add a good deal of activated carbon to your filter flow path, and execute a series of 10-20% water changes every few days to dilute their effects. BobF>

Emperor Angel mouth problem    1/25/06
Dear Crew,
<Dana>
I have a 5 1/2"  Emperor Angel whom I have had for just under 2 years. He has always been healthy, eats everything, and has almost  
completely changed over to his adult form. He is perfect in every way but one. Over the last six months, I noticed that his mouth looked  
different than it should (I had one many years ago, plus see them in LFS and photos). I have had no luck taking photos that clearly show  
what I am talking about, so I shall attempt to describe his mouth. Quite simply, it looks as if someone grabbed it with a pair of pliers  
and pulled it forward. There does not appear to be any growths on it, more like it has cracks in it. His mouth does protrude out, the  
bottom more so than the top. I can see what appear to be blood vessels under the skin in this area, and he is no longer able to  
close his mouth completely. It does not appear to bother him, as he is still eating quite well. But I am concerned that what originally  
looked like a "not so perfect specimen" now looks like something is obviously wrong. I did search your FAQs, and did find a couple of  
posts about tumors of the mouth, but neither of the posts offered a description for comparison. If this is a tumor, do you have any advice for a remedy?
<Maybe a tumor, perhaps a genetic anomaly... could be resultant from a "bump" long ago... No remedy though...>
Are my other fish in any danger?
<Highly unlikely, no>
I am not certain if this is related, but I have twice seen him breathing rapidly out of a single gill only (found several posts on this as well, but no clear answers),
<Probably not a problem or related. Just something they do at times>
but minutes later was breathing normally. Oh yes - water quality is excellent, with near zero  
nitrates and phosphates, pH is 8.2, temp 77. The tank is a 240 with 200 lbs. of live rock, though this was only added a few months ago.  
All other fish in the tank have perfect health. His diet includes virtually every frozen marine fish food on the market (I believe in  
variety!) fed twice a day, with dried seaweed fed twice a week. Your help and advice is greatly appreciated.
Dana
<I would soak the foods, algae in a vitamin/HUFA supplement (like Selcon, Microvit...), but otherwise do nothing else here. If this is a developmental disorder, or tumor as you speculate, hopefully it will spontaneously remit. Bob Fenner>

Emperor Acclimation  - 01/09/2006
This is my third emperor in about 4 months.   The  first two were teeny tiny juv.s (about an inch long)  
<Too small to start... shame on the collectors>
this one is  probably twice that size,  maybe a little more.  I thought a slightly  older one might get over whatever am missing.
<Better at 3-4 inches overall length>
  Its starting off in a  30 gallon fish only ( yes I know,  please don't hurt me! )
<You will do this yourself>
  Its  tankmates are 3 cinnamon clowns and a bi-color blenny.
<Too small a volume. I hope they are leaving the angel alone>
  The first two  days after getting him home he seemed fine, swimming around picking at the  rocks etc.  But now after a few days, and like the last two he is staying  
at the top,   not moving two much.  His breathing seems  normal,   his fins seem fine, coloration gets white and blotchy  occasionally, but from what I've
read here,   and what I can see,   probably cause he isn't happy about something.  
<Like your grammar>
I did probably about a 10%  water change,  maybe a little more.  My readings all "appear "normal,  ammonia and nitrite at 0.0 and my nitrate at 10,  is that normal? <Mmm, okay, normal>
I have to admit that my biggest success at saltwater was a  panther grouper who got to about 6 or 7 inches from 1.
<A very hardy aquarium species>
  Though I read  they are the Oscars of saltwater fish.
<An apt comparison>
Back to the angel, ( sorry I have  that a.d.d thing )  
<Ahh, I have other shortcomings, not quite so popular>
I have halfheartedly attempted feeding him  different things,  but if he isn't well that would be hard to get him to  do?
<Yes... or too stressed... I would not place a Pomacanthus angel in such a small system, with other fishes as you list...>
Eat I mean.  Right now I have the lights off in the tank and my  fingers crossed.   What have I done? If you can possibly tell from  this incoherent rambling email.
<Please take a read re our Emperor Angel materials: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm
and the linked files above. You can avoid mistakes with the knowledge archived there. Bob Fenner>

Emperor angelfish with Ich 9/28/05
I have a fish only tank with live rock, tank size is 125 gallons with over125 pounds of live rock. I just purchased an emperor angel that is in the stages
of changing, I made sure to take extra care in picking this fish out, no signs of problems with it when I bought it from the fish store, brought it home
and acclimated it to my tank. The next morning I notice it had Ich on its body and none of the other fish have anything wrong with them even my yellow
eyed tang with can get Ich very easy. I am planning on doing my weekly 10% water change tomorrow and I am wondering should I do a Formalin dip on the fish in a one gallon  bucket with the water I take out or should I just wait the disease out since it  is only on one fish and may be due to stress of the fish.
Please let me know and  I enjoy the web site very much haven't had to ask for any
help yet as everything is on the site, thank you much. <Please check grammar, caps etc, then resend.  As most of these queries are posted, we just don't have the time to edit queries before posting. <James (Salty Dog)><<James... too late... this fish was not quarantined, the whole system "has" ich/crypt now... refer folks to appropriate parts of the site... RMF>>

Re: Yawning and Shaking Head of Volitans Lion, and Emperor Angel color
Dear Bob,
<Wendy>
First of all, thank you for the advice on my lion - he is doing so much better!!!  Maybe he was just going through a phase - sometimes I think I'm
dealing with a two year old!!!  LOL  Anyway, I wanted to thank you for that.
<Welcome and great to hear of your Lion's recovery>
However, now I have what I think is a problem with my Imperator Angel (Pomacanthus imperator).  He's not a juvenile and didn't buy him as such.
The fish store said that he was caught as an adult.
<Mmm, hopefully as a youngster with adult coloration... adapt to captivity much better>
He had beautiful color when I got him and now it is really fading quick.  It started off as small
watch colorless patches - it's not lymphocystis where the patches are more clumpy - this is definitely a color loss on his part.  I've been feeding him
plenty of algae (processed sheets), Spirulina, brine shrimp, omega 3 brine shrimp, angel and butterfly mixes, marine cuisine, and color enhanced flake
foods.  I don't think he's sick because his appetite is HUGE!!!  Plus, he's been eating the slime algae that keeps assimilating on the sides of the
glass like crazy - could that be it?
<Mmm, maybe>
He's in with three scissortail damsels - and they are only 1.5 inches - he's about four inches!  All of his water parameters are fine - the salinity is
1.022, temp is 76, nitrate is zero, nitrite is zero, and ammonia is zero. Also his pH is 8.2.
<I would definitely raise your specific gravity up to about near seawater strength (1.025)... and soak the non-dry foods in Selcon or equivalent... adding "mud" to your sump filtration, more live rock... might improve water quality, the fish's health, appearance as well>
Please help - I don't want to lose him if he is sick!!!
Thanks!
Suzanne
<The Angel may be simply "stressed"... there is room for this fish, places for it to hide out of your sight I hope/trust. Bob Fenner>

Emperor Angel head, HLLE
Hi,
My friend has an Emperor angel with a blue tang, Columbian shark and a GSP. The angel has gotten some pink thing on his head that my friend and I can't identify. Is it fungus, HLLE, scratching on rocks? He also thinks that the blue tang might have the same thing. I don't know much about his tank except it has a little amount of live rock and it is a 30 gallon eclipse tank. I will ask him for his water
<Is HLLE... please read on WWM re... improve nutrition, water quality... A thirty gallon system is too small for these species. Bob Fenner> 

Sick Emperor Angel 4/15/05
Hi, I just got a baby Emperor Angel (2.5 inches) about a month ago. The tank has been set up almost a year and a half. I have a protein skimmer and nitrates-10, ammonia-0, nitrites-0. All of a sudden the angel is kinda fading/blotchy in color and breathing rapidly, and hiding in the corner. I am feeding him mainly seaweed, Mysis and brine. Is this something that a dip will help or is there anything else I could do? Thank you, Adam <This doesn't sound like anything that a dip will help, but do rule out Amyloodinium (velvet) See here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/amylloodiniumart.htm  I would guess that there is an environmental problem. I would suggest checking pH right before the lights come on in the morning and right before they go off at night. A large difference suggests deficient alkalinity (which should be tested as well!) or deficient gas exchange (requires more water movement and/or addition of skimmer if you don't have one). If you don't perform at least 10% monthly water changes, I would consider doing so, starting ASAP. If the fish has been healthy to this point, try to figure out what has changed. New tankmates (could be harassing or introduced disease)? Recent animal death? Equipment added or removed? Your food choices are reasonable, although brine is not very nutritious. I would suggest frozen "Pygmy Angel Formula" and/or "Angel Formula" by Ocean Nutrition. Both include a variety of wholesome foods and added vitamins and are well received. Best Regards. AdamC.>

Emperor with ich
Hello Crew! I have a quick question: I have an emperor angel in QT and he just came down with a few ICH spots. I know they are copper sensitive, what other med can I use to get rid of this? 
<I would try a freshwater dip, that should help. There really are no medications other than copper that effectively work. When using copper for angels don't exceed .15ppm of copper. If the fish shows stress, filter the copper out with activated carbon. Good luck. James (Salty Dog)>

Emperor Angel Splotches
Hi there,<Hello Ryan>
I recently purchased an Imperator (Emperor) Angel for a LFS and with what appeared to be great success. Within the first day he began eating. I have been feeding him from a Marine frozen multi-pak. He eats all of this with as much enthusiasm as my fox face lo which is his new buddy, or so it appears. The problem is that he has developed light color blotches over his skin. Nothing like Ich, in fact he isn't scratching or breathing rapidly. He just has these discolorations that started on his fins and have progressed to the rest of his body.
Could you give me an idea of what I might be dealing with? I am very involved with my hobby and am excited about maintaining this high-risk/ high-reward fish. <Ryan, if you or a friend has a digital camera, send a photo as an attachment so I could look at it. It very well may be marine velvet, but without looking at it I cannot make a judgment. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks, Ryan

Angel with a cloudy eye
Good day! Why my Emperor Angel have a cloudy eyes? << Usually a problem with dirty water.  It can also be stress from fighting with other fish, but I usually see this type of thing in tanks that don't have enough biological filtration. >>
Does it  serious for angel fish? << It is serious because it can lead to further problems. >> What cause it and how to treat and avoid it in the future? << I think over feeding the tank and not having enough live rock are the main causes.  I don't know if you can treat the fish, unless you move it to a hospital tank.  I think you should try increasing your filtration and making you water quality better.  That way you won't have any more fish getting sick. >> Thanks.
Seng
<<  Blundell  >>

This Emperor Has a "Royal" Problem! (Disease or Injury?)
Good afternoon-
<Hi there! Scott F. with you today>
I have a sick Imperator angel, and after reading over the FAQ's, and not seeing anything closely related, decided to ask for help.  I've had the angel for about 5 years and watched it grow from a juvenile to a large adult.  For the last few years, it's been in a 180 FOWLR without problems.  Up until about 8-9 days ago, it ate everything in sight, typically Formula 1 & 2, Mysis or Caulerpa and every week or so, I'd toss in a clam or green lip mussel from the local fish market.  When the eating slowed down, I noticed what appeared to be a film over one eye, which also looked somewhat swollen or 'popped out'  For the last
4-5 days, I haven't seen it eat anything.  On occasion, it looks as if it will try, but quickly looses interest.  All of the other tankmates are still looking happy and healthy, and none have been harassing it.  
The only 'harassment' has been when I come to the put food in, it
usually runs off and hides, grunting along the way.  There doesn't
appear to be any external parasites, diseases, etc.  The water checks out ok, temp. 78, 1.024, pH 8.2, and the nitrates at 25.  The nitrates have generally been around 10-15, but I think due to the uneaten food, it's climbed up a bit.  In the last week, I've done 2- 40 gallon water changes and I'm preparing the water for a 3rd.  I've run carbon for 5 days or so, as I watch his condition go down hill.  It now spends most of it's time hanging face down in a corner, or hidden back in the rocks.
<Not good to see; this generally is indicative of a pretty sick fish. My initial thought was some sort of injury to the eye, which caused the bulging appearance. It may have become infected, too. The lack of appetite may be unrelated (the fish is simply uncomfortable and agitated due to the eye problem), or it could be indicative of some sort of bacterial or other infection. Rather than rush to medicate an undiagnosed illness with a potentially incorrect medication, you may want to try the old standby of Epsom salt in the tank water to help draw down the swelling. If the fish is continuing to display other disease signs, then you may want to isolate it and observe it more carefully, in the hope of diagnosing just what it is you're dealing with.>
In one of the FAQ responses, you said to soak the food in Selcon.   If the fish isn't eating, will the Selcon entice it to eat, or is it not worth the effort.
<Selcon will certainly make the food that the fish does eat more nutritious; I'm not really sure if it will entice the fish to eat. It does have a "fishy" smell, so maybe there is some attraction provided.>
Moving it to a hospital tank is also out of the question, as the largest tank I have is a 35 gal, and I'd never be able to get it out from the rocks.  Thanks for your
assistance. Andy
<Well, Andy, lets hope that the passage of time, good water quality, Epsom salt and quality food will help this fish recover fully. Sometimes, that's all it takes! Hang in there, don't make any rash treatment decisions, and observe the fish carefully. Let us know if we may be of any further assistance. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Sick Imperator
I sent this email on Monday, and haven't seen or heard anything since,
so I've resent it.  Sorry if it's a duplicate, and you just haven't
answered it yet!
<We run behind at times...>
Good afternoon-
<Hello there>
I have a sick Imperator angel, and after reading over the FAQ's, and
not seeing anything closely related, I decided to ask for help.  I've
had the angel for about 5 years and watched it grow from a juvenile to
a large adult.
<How nice... a true aquatic pet>
  For the last few years, it's been in a 180 FOWLR
without problems.  Up until about 8-9 days ago, it ate everything in
sight, typically Formula 1 & 2, Mysis or Caulerpa and every week or so,
I'd toss in a clam or green lip mussel from the local fish market.  
<A good selection>
When the eating slowed down, I noticed what appeared to be a film over
one eye, which also looked somewhat swollen or 'popped out'  For the
last 4-5 days, I haven't seen it eat anything.
<Yikes! Likely your angel bumped into something... hasn't felt like feeding>
On occasion, it looks
as if it will try, but quickly loses interest.  All of the other
tankmates are still looking happy and healthy, and none have been
harassing it.  The only 'harassment' has been when I come to the put
food in, it usually runs off and hides, grunting along the way.
<You have good hearing... they do vocalize>
There
doesn't appear to be any external parasites, diseases, etc.  The water
checks out ok, temp. 78, 1.024, pH 8.2, and the nitrates at 25.  The
nitrates have generally been around 10-15, but I think due to the
uneaten food, it's climbed up a bit.
<Likely so>
In the last week, I've done 2- 40
gallon water changes and I'm preparing the water for a 3rd.  I've run
carbon for 5 days or so, as I watch his condition go down hill.  It now
spends most of it's time hanging face down in a corner, or hidden back
in the rocks.  In one of the FAQ responses, you said to soak the food
in Selcon.   If the fish isn't eating, will the Selcon entice it to
eat, or is it not worth the effort?
<IS worth the effort>
Moving it to a hospital tank is
also out of the question, as the largest tank I have is a 35 gal, and
I'd never be able to get it out from the rocks.  Thanks for your
assistance.
Andy
<Andy, I would "risk" the addition of Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate) here as an ameliorative... a level teaspoon per five gallons... you can place this all at once... and replace the bit removed with water changes... this addition will hopefully speed the reduction in your angels eye-swelling... I would not force feed this animal for at least another few weeks... keep trying the opened shellfish every few days, remove if no interest shown. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sick Imperator
> <Andy, I would "risk" the addition of Epsom Salt (Magnesium Sulfate)
> here as an ameliorative... a level teaspoon per five gallons... you
> can place this all at once... and replace the bit removed with water
> changes... this addition will hopefully speed the reduction in your
> angels eye-swelling... I would not force feed this animal for at least
> another few weeks... keep trying the opened shellfish every few days,
> remove if no interest shown. Bob Fenner>
Bob-
Is that a teaspoon per actual amount of water or per tank size?  
<Per actual estimated gallonage>
Despite not having seen the angel eat much in the last 10 days or so,
it does seem to be hanging in there.  Thanks for the advice.
Andy
<There is a good chance of this fish recovering with your good care. Bob Fenner>

Sick Imperator follow-up...
Bob & crew-
<Andy>
Back on Dec 1st, I wrote you about a sick adult imperator that wasn't
eating.  Since then, I have followed your advice, which was, add Epsom
salts to the tank and the use of Selcon.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen
any improvement.  The fish still has not eaten, at least that I've
seen.  I use frozen cubes and once a week a  fresh green lip mussel.  
As I mentioned, a hospital tank is not practical, but I don't know what
else to do before I have to get the net and scoop him out.
<Try some fresh-as-you-can-find live rock... with sponge material growing on it... and place this in the system... Lastly, consider force-feeding this animal. Must be done carefully to avoid damage... with two people, a plastic catheter and bulb. Bob Fenner>
He certainly is a lot skinnier than his big fat robust self, as of a month
ago.  Any other ideas?  Thanks!
Andy

Emperor Angel
My Emperor Angel seems to be getting worse. It started with the itching and he has stopped that, then his big clear fins by his gills << pectoral fins >> seemed to get whitish and ragged, then his left bottom fin << pelvic fin >> looked like it had huge bits out of it, then his tail fin << caudal fin >> started looking raged, then right eye became cloudy, then whitish scales seemed to form on both eye (worst on the right), now his left eye is clear but his right eye is solid white and puffed out. A lot to be wrong with one fish. What would be your plan of action? << Get the fish out of the tank. I would definitely medicate this fish in a hospital tank. >>  I would like to treat him with some kind of medication but I'm not sure what. << Start with tetracycline, copper, and garlic, or any common meds found in your local pet store. >>There are so many problems. Since he is the only fish in the tank...how bad could it be if I just treated him in the tank? << Well it depends.  If you have coral and other inverts then it could be really bad.  If this is (and always will be) a fish only tank, then not much to risk. >> It just seemed it would be easier on me and the fish if I just took out the star fish and snails and treated him in the main tank. << Easier yes, but I still wouldn't do it.  The long term effects of the medication are too difficult to assess.  Also, you can dose stronger in a hospital tank, because he won't always be in there, and it is easy to dose 20 gallons as opposed to a large tank. >> I could get another tank set up, probably twenty or thirty gallon but it is not cycled at all. Wouldn't ammonia and nitrite spike up and kill the angel? << You need to do water changes in this tank, and hang on filter or something like that would be helpful. >> When I was moving my tank, I placed my harlequin tusk (4") in a brand new 10 gallon system and he died from the ammonia spike overnight. << Try using water or some rock from your current tank, and add airstones and things like that. It is a risk, but I don't think your fish will survive otherwise. >> I don't want this to happen the my angel. What would you do and what would you use? << Copper and garlic for me.  Hope that helps. >> Thanks for all your help, Andy <<  Adam Blundell  >>

Emperor Angel
I have a 6" adult Emperor Angel and I think it has come down with some kind of disease. I believe that problem started with not so pristine water quality. After about a month and a half neglect, nitrate rose to about 35ppm. My emperor started thrashing in the water when the lights were out and the next day I would notice scratches on his body. Then I noticed the angel scratching himself on the coral and rocks. It is probably external parasites and I have given him a couple freshwater dips. This helped a lot but his right eye is becoming cloudier every day. Today I notice a small strand of browning strand stuck to his eye and it has double in size in about 15 hours (it is now about 3/4 cm). I do not have a separate tank to put him in but I do not want to treat with any kind of medication (not a fan of them). He is the only fish I have currently. << That is convenient.  This will allow you to do things that would otherwise stress your other fish. >> He continues to eat very well despite the fact that he can't see the food when it is on his right side. Should I just continue with the freshwater dips and diet of premium angel food containing sponge, algae, plankton, and vitamin C... or should I begin some other treatment? << Seeing as how things are getting worse, not better, I would definitely try some other treatment.  The first thing that comes to my mind is adding garlic to his food.  Garlic is typically used for other ailments, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it here. Another option is to catch and remove the fish. I like this idea since you don't have other tankmates.  This way you can medicate him (which I understand you don't like) but not medicate your tank. That's what I would do.>>Thank you so much, Andy. <<  Adam Blundell  >>

The Emperor's New Illness?
Hi,
<Hello! Scott F. with you>
Love the site , recommend to my fish loving friends.
I have a 3 1/2  juvenile Emperor angel supposedly from the Red Sea! How can I tell in juvenile form?
<The juvenile form is a "semi-circular" pattern of white on blue, designed to camouflage the fish in the dappled light on the reef.>
Anyway, it has two problems  1) Continually gets a single dot
of  ich , no other fish has had any signs. This has been going on for 3 weeks. Tank is coppered. Levels are steady ( seems he is recreating ich rather than having it jump back on, theory based on copper levels.)
<Not sure of that one. It's not good to leave a fish in copper for an extended period of time. You may want to try some freshwater dips in addition to the copper, as these can help alleviate the symptoms>
2)For 2 weeks now has a cottony growth on head above eye . . no signs of  holes, behavior is normal , I'm not treating infection at this time, if that's what it is!!!! Note: had fish, mail ordered to me about 7 weeks ago , quarantined for 21 days w/o any problems.
went into main tank got, picked on for a day, broke out with ich ,4 days later, and I coppered tank.
<Not a great idea to use copper in the display tank...I hope that you are implying that you used copper in the extra (quarantine) tank? Be sure that you are maintaining a proper therapeutic level of copper, in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations. The cottony growth sounds fungal to me. Many of these fungal maladies go away by simply maintaining excellent water quality in the tank. If that doesn't work, medical intervention may be needed.>
Water conditions are fine! Tank size 135 gal.
tankmates are Sohal Tang juvenile, Blueline Trigger juvenile,
Thanks, Bart
<Well, Bart, if you are already treating with copper, keep a careful eye on the fish, and keep up those excellent water conditions. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Making A Tough Call (Recovering Fish)
Dear Scott,
<Hi there!>
Its me again. I'm sorry to disturb you again. I previously wrote to you regarding my emperor angel not using one of its gills. Thank GOD for answering prayer. It is OK now. It is not only breathing with both gills, but breath with ease ( 88 per min as compared to 120 per min just few days ago).
<Really happy to hear that!>
Its Ich or Velvet seems to be under control for now... eating is normal, breathing is normal, cloudy eyes starts to be clearer.... It is such joy to see it showing positive signs of recovery so fast, though not completely. That CU did help. Thanks!!
<I'm glad that it's working for you!>
I did NOT use Octozin on it as I suggested in my previous mail. Nor did I transfer it back to display tank.  As it was a weekend & I did not get reply from you in time, I made a decision to retard the Cu treatment in hospital tank as I am more concerned of the water quality now that the angel's sickness is under control. I got a cleaner shrimp for it in the hospital tank. It helps a lot.
<Good decision...>
The tank was NOT medicated now. BUT, water quality is measured as Amm= 0.6 (reduced from 0.8 yesterday) , Nitrite = 0.25. Emperor shows no stress yet. Neither does the shrimp. Instead, I am the one that's stressed.... Following your advice, I have been changing water  twice daily: between 20% - 45% each time. Mostly from water from display tank though I mixed from time to time with freshly made saltwater. Obviously the cycling happens now. I also have a Polyfilter & sponges from main display as stated previously.
I need your helpful opinion on the situation I am in now. Having read all these abt toxic ammonia & nitrite, I am so tempted to move it back to main display & let the hospital tank goes through a quick cycle before I take it back to hosp tank to treat again OR I should stick it out & brave through the cycle with these maddening water changes conducted daily. Is this a tough one? It is for me. I don't mind to brave it out, only if I know what's the tolerance limit of Amm & nitrite for both cleaner & Emperor. Has any one that you know had similar experience in the past?  
<Yep...it is a tough call. It sounds horrible, as each life is precious- but I'd rather risk one fish then put the entire population at risk if you return the fish to the display. Keep at those water changes, use the Polyfilter, "kick start" the filtration with a "bacteria in a bottle" product if you must.>
Sorry for rushing two letters in this short weekend to you & contradicting my stands in both. I hope for your understanding. Thanks again for your help, as usual.
Best regards.
<No apologies necessary at all! You made a very tough call and it seems to be working in your favor! Just stay on top of things; do your best to keep the water quality as high as possible, and be prepared to take any action you deem necessary to save this beautiful fish's life. Good luck the rest of the way! Regards, Scott F.>

HLLE?
Dear Scott F.
<Back with you!>
In furthering our imperator diagnosis: Just to let you know about my water quality let me tell you what I have and what I am doing. My 210 (home of the fish) has 2 Tidepool II running through a thirty five watt UV, an ocean clear cartridge filter, I have a Berlin Turbo in one sump and I use a D-1 Diatom once a week till it clogs up. I am doing a 10 to 15% water change weekly with RO water. The Tidepools have a blue pad,2 bags of Chemi pure and bio stars in the three trays X 2.  Judging by what I am currently doing is there anything else I can do to improve water quality? I would love your assessment and recommendations.
<Well, it sounds like your husbandry techniques are good. Assuming that your water quality is up to par, that leaves only a few other possibilities for HLLE, such as diet or the more exotic stuff, like stray electrical voltage (you can use a grounding probe to help remove stray voltage, BTW). I'd consider just about everything in your assessment. I suppose that, if we're dealing with HLLE, it may be diet...Even then, it may not be! That's one of the frustrating things about this malady! I'd do some research, and continue to maintain good water conditions and provide quality food, and observe the fish's progress from there. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>
thanks again Kirt

HLLE? (Cont'd.)
Hello Scott
<Hi there!>
In regards to the Imperator's diet and the other fish as well: I feed them spectrum A in the morning at midday I give them a little green stuff and at night I either give them frozen brine with liquid garlic by Kent or ocean nutrition's Prime Reef flake - Formula 1 and 2 and they all devour it! That is there basic diet some times for a treat I give them live brine. What do you think of this dietary program?
<Well, it sounds pretty good to me! I have never been a big fan of too much brine shrimp for marine fish; I believe that they are a bit short on nutritional value for marine fish. Live brine shrimp also carry a potential risk for contamination or parasites, so do be careful with them . You may want to consider Mysis shrimp as an alternative, instead. Other than that, I'd keep doing what you're doing! The mystery continues...Regards, Scott F>
Thanks
Kirt

Emperor with HLLD
>Good afternoon folks at WWM,
>>Greetings.
>After exhausting all resources I am finally breaking down to ask you a question.  First, let me start by giving you a brief description of my problem.  I have an emperor angel that has developed a serious condition of HLLD.  It is to the point that his entire face is almost completely pitted as well as his lateral line.  I have followed all suggestions found in all your related articles but nothing seems to be working.  
>>It would be helpful to have an outline of what suggestions have been tried, to what extent, as well as timeline.  In any event...
>My tank is a 90 gal. FO, up and running for about 3 years, with some ornamental corals, one small piece of LR and about 2-3" of LS.  Filtration is through a wet dry filter and protein skimmer of unknown type (a gift from a friend) which does produce cups of dark green product on a regular basis.  I took your advice and bought a large Rubbermaid trash can and powerhead to mix my own water.  Using Instant Ocean salt and Seachem's Prime for chlorine and chloramine removal and tapwater, I am able to do 10- 15 gal water changes each week  (the LFS said no other chemicals were needed due to our water quality).  When tested, all water qualities appear within normal limits.  
>>We prefer to know actual readings, test kit brand is helpful as well.  As I'm sure you can understand, there are many varying definitions of "within normal limits" or "acceptable parameters".
>Livestock includes:
1-emperor angel 4" beginning to change colors
1-hippo tang 5"
1-powder brown tang 4"
1-sailfin tang 4" in the recovering stages of HLLD
>>This system is already overstocked, especially with consideration to adult sizes of these first four residents.
>1-yellow tang 4"
2- small damsels (blue with yellow tails)
1-sebae clown with anemone
1-CB shrimp
2-sandsifter stars
2-useless brittle stars
>>Believe me, they're not useless.
>1-small queen conch
multiple Astrea snails
In the morning they are fed one cube each of Angel Formula and Formula Two by Ocean Nutrition soaked in Kent's Marine C, and in the evening one sheet of Nori and some silversides both soaked in Boyd's Vita-Chem.  
>>ALL these fish are fed only two cubes of frozen food?  In my opinion they are underfed.  Also, I MUCH prefer Selcon, and it can be ordered online.
>On the recommendation of my LFS, I have installed a grounding probe.  The only thing that I have not done is to add American Marine Selcon and this is due to not being able to find it locally.  The LFS also suggested that if what I am doing does not work, that I could inject the vitamins directly into the base of the tail with a small syringe.  Ever heard of that?  
>>Oh my goodness, an extreme measure, I think it would be more stressful than helpful.  
>The Sailfin tang also had a bout of HLLD but seems to be in the recovering stages.  All fish have a healthy appetite and otherwise appear  in great condition, everyone seems to be happy and getting along.  What am I missing (besides a larger tank, which is hopefully in the future if my wife lets me)? I would really like to see my angel clear up and complete his color change.  Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  Steve
>>Personally, I would try using Selcon instead of the other vitamins, and I would definitely feed more.  Also, if you can't get a larger tank VERY soon then I strongly suggest thinning the herd.  Marina      

Emperor Angel sick?
Hello, I just bought a 4-5 inch juvenile coloured Emperor angel a couple days ago and he's just beginning to feed on brine shrimp and Mysid and if there is any other nutritional food that i should be feeding him please tell me.<I would feed your angelfish a mixture of foodstuff...such as Nori-which can be purchased at a grocery store. I feed my angelfish Lifeline (green for herbivores) and I also soak all foodstuff in vitamins.>My problem is that I've noticed an oval shaped brownish faded sore about 1 cm in diameter and from a certain angle it kind of pokes out a little, but not that much. I have heard of white blotches that these guys get when there changing, but I'm not sure if its the same thing. Is this nutritional or a skin disease?<It could be a environmental disease...A picture would help greatly. BTW.. test your water and give me your results.. pH.. nitrates, nitrites, ammonia. SG--Good luck, IanB> Please help me I love these guys sooo much. thanks

Emperor Angel fish disease?
Hi, I just bought a 4-5 inch juvenile coloured Emperor Angel 3 days ago and I noticed a brownish pink discoloured spot on him about 1 cm in diameter. I am not sure if it is from transporting or if its a disease? Thanx <Did the spots look like the ones on the fish at this link? http://www.wetwebmedia.com/viraldislymph.htm If so your problem is a viral infection called Lymphocystis...If this is your problem please read the FAQ's that appear on the Lymphocystis page. Do keep in mind this is an environmental disease, so If it is a new fish I would not be too concerned. Good luck, IanB>

Adult Emperor Angel with HLLE
<howdy>
I have an adult Emperor Angel (about 6") that I think has HLLE. About a week after I purchased him I say a large bump (about the size of half a peanut) on his head (above his eye). The next day it was smaller but had something that looked like 3 small white worms coming out of it. I thought it might be a parasite but the next day they were gone and there were holes left.
<not likely parasites at all... infected nonetheless>
It has been just 4 or 5 hole for about a week. It seems to be getting better with a diet of sponge but should I do anything else. Thank you very much, Andy
<I fear that this fish was not put into a proper quarantine tank first. Else, these issues are easily treated there. Now in the display, we are somewhat handicapped. There's not a whole lot to treat in this case (ineffective in systems with substrate and a risk to killing the biological filter). Please do continue to feed well and do research and establish a QT tank ASAP. Best of luck! Anthony>

- White Blotches on Emperor Angel -
Hello. <Hi.> I am desperately trying to sift through all the info. on the web about angels. I have a 3.5 inch juvenile imperator angel who has white blotches to his pattern. Does not look like anything attached as it would with an ich type disease. He is eating and swimming about. My nitrates, nitrites, ammonia and salinity are all good. His eyes are clear. Is this just the beginning of his metamorphosis or is it a disease. <Sounds to me like an exhibition of the night/fright pattern on this fish. Typically shown when in an overall bad mood or nighttime. Not sure what your fish might be responding to, but have seen these blotchy patterns often enough on newly arrived or stressed fish. Do look for sources of stress in your tank, perhaps do a couple of large water changes to try and improve its mood.> Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Heather
<Cheers, J -- >

HLLE on Imperator Angel
Bob,
Long time no chat (as much as I enjoy reading your words of wisdom, long
periods of silence are testaments to your good advise).
<Perhaps>
I have an Imperator with some light erosion on his face and lateral line.
He¹s currently going through his color change, so I¹ve tried to be
especially good with his diet.
<This and sterling water quality, and perhaps iodide/iodine supplementation are the best routes for avoiding and treating this malady>
I randomly cycle the following: Ocean
Nutrition Formula 2 flakes, frozen Spirulina Cubes, frozen Angel Formula
cubes, frozen brine shrimp soaked overnight in Zoe Marine and Zoecon, Mysis
shrimp and New Life Spectrum Marine Fish Formula pellets. I also usually
keep a strip of red, green or purple dried seaweed in the tank for everyone.
Also, I occasionally pick up a broken/dying piece of sponge from the pet
store and throw it in there for the angel to pick on.
<Very good>
The tank¹s primary occupant is a Bonnethead shark, so there is some live
rock (with encrusting sponge), although it¹s minimal (I sent you some photos
in the past). I allow algae to grow on the back glass so there¹s always
something to graze on. The water parameters are good (no ammonia, nitrites,
nitrates or phosphates) with a pH of around 8 -- although I do keep the
water a bit on the cool side (72 degrees).
To combat the condition (started a few days ago), I¹ve replaced the seaweed
strips with broccoli (either raw or microwaved for about 15 seconds). I also
tested for stray voltage using a volt meter. I was told by my local pet
store to set the meter to 120V and check the wall current (checked out a
little above 120), then place the negative probe in the wall socket and the
positive probe in the water to check for any current. There was none. Am I
doing this correctly?
<Sounds like it>
I also bought a grounding probe (figured it couldn¹t
hurt with the shark in there), but when I plugged it into my power strip, I
actually DID get a measurable current in the water, so I removed it (shark
was NOT fond of the grounding probe experiment!!). 
<No... as you are likely aware... the Ampullae of Lorenzini...>
I assume my problem was
that I needed to plug the grounding probe into a verified grounded wall
outlet rather than into a power strip ‹ any suggestions??
<Mmm, the connection should have been fine... as long as both grounded... I would leave off with such a device>
Also, since I have a fairly large algae scrubber (an Ecowheel), the store
recommended the addition of Kent Marine Iodine and Coral-Vite.
<Yes>
Does algae
consume Iodine? 
<Some do to a very large degree, yes>
Can/should I soak foods in these solutions or is it best to
administer these into the tank water? 
<Actually both. Daily for the foods, weekly for the system. Do utilize a test kit, see if you can get a "next day" concentration>
I¹ve started dosing the tank at about
1/2 the recommended dosage from the manufacturer. What do you think? Any
other suggestion?
<Not at this time>
Also, I do regularly use carbon. About 5 lbs. in a 500 gallon tank, which I
change out every month. I mention this as this might also be a potential
cause for removing trace elements, although I know this is heavily debated.
<Likely of small concern here. The "shark" effect, psychologically and water quality wise are more important for instance>
By the way, the fish don¹t seem to really like the broccoli, although they
might start giving it more consideration if I continue to withhold the algae
strips.
<I would return to the algae, you can eat the broccoli>
Thanks again! Your suggestions are greatly appreciated.
<As is your sharing. Bob Fenner>

Head And Lateral Line Syndrome/Erosion
Hi,
I have a XL emperor angel. I had him for over a year now. He is in a 240 gallon tank with some Tangs. Doing great. My water parameters are fine. My question is that I started to notice two small holes on my emp.s face. Below his nostrils. There are two, one on each side. What could this be?? I notice that my Sohal tang has two holes on one side of his face too. Anyhow thanks. Lee
<It sounds like the beginning of Head And Lateral Line Syndrome/Erosion. You can read about it here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm -Steven Pro>

Emperor angelfish
Hello, My name is Alena and I have been to your site many times. <<Hello to you.>> But have not found an answer to my problem. I have a 55 gallon tank that has been up and running for about 5 years now. Really haven't had any problems with it until now. I have a yellow tang, maroon clown bonded to a bulb anemone and a saddle puffer. I just recently got an juvenile emperor angelfish, which has been doing fine for a week now, but it looks as though it has a white pale coat, spread evenly over his body. The emperor eats, and acts fine, but he/she doesn't use its back body to swim (like he/she is stiff or paralyzed). It basically swims using only his/her side fins, but still swims around the tank like a normal fish. The emperor doesn't have any parasites on him/her, and I have researched many diseases on the internet that doesn't match what he/she has. The emperor has been like this for about two weeks now, and doesn't look like it has been getting better or worse. Now, I pulled the emperor out of the tank and put it in a QT tank that has been running for about two months, and treated it with Coppersafe to make sure parasites, that I couldn't see, were not the problem. He/she has been in the QT tank for 4 days now, but still the discoloration and lack of movement in the body still exists. I don't know what it might be, if you have any ideas what I can do please let me know.
Thanks,
Alena
<<Alena, what I think you are observing is two things... one, these fish often swim like this, saving the caudal [tail] fin for a mad-dash to cover. Two, I would hazard a guess that this fish just doesn't need to swim that hard... a 55 is really much too small for this fish, and likewise you may not have extreme currents in the system. Although it is small now, they grow to about a foot and I've seen these where they live - they get BIG. So... it's probably not very exercise challenged. I would skip the quarantine, consider another powerhead for the tank and start saving for the 240. Cheers, J -- >>

Adult Emperor Angel with hole(s) in the head - getting worse
Hello,
I have a 6 " adult Emperor who has been in a QT for 10 weeks. First he came down with ich, then gill flukes (fresh water dips took care of those problems). For the past 6 weeks he has been suffering from HLLE. He has deep holes just around his head and especially around the mouth (nothing along the lateral line, though) and he is getting worse. QT is a 40 gallon with a Remora skimmer, Penguin 300 filtration, 20% water changes weekly, no meds, his diet comprises of mostly Formula II soaked in Zoe, Mysid shrimp w/Zoe once or twice a week, Nori once daily, occasional shaved prawns. I tried Hexamit and it helped him a little bit for a while, but he is worse now. What is wrong?
<It sounds like simple HLLE. I would add sponge matter to this diet and perhaps switch your food additives to Boyd's Vita-Chem and American Marine Selcon.>
Thank you.
<Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Recovering Emperor
Hi guys
<Scott F. your guy today>
I have an adult Emperor Angel which I treated for ICH when I first got him 6 weeks ago and no longer see any sign of that infestation.
<That's good to hear>
My problem now is that his color has blanched (overall and even more in certain spots) and his eyes became cloudy.  I have been treating him with Maracyn 2 for 6 days and the overall color has improved a bit, his eyes are not nearly as cloudy but then again not yet perfect.  He still has numerous faded spots.  In reading
the "faq's" on your site, I see that this is a common problem and also noted that Maracyn 2 might not be the way to go.  What should my course of action be and how long should it take to cure him?  
<Well, use of a product such as Maracyn is certainly acceptable to help reduce the possibility of secondary infection. However, if you think about it, this fish has been through the trauma of illness, and the stress of treatment (albeit, a successful one) over the last few weeks, so it may be time to give him a break from medication for a while.>
Are the faded spots "normal" for this fish?  He is being treated in a 10 gal QT tank.  Thanks as always. Joe
<I have noticed this with a number of Emperors after disease treatment. I think that some of this discoloration may be the result of skin damage from the parasites, and possibly even from the treatment itself (prolonged copper treatments can damage some fishes). Another thought is that it is a result of imperfect water quality (which sometimes happens in a treatment tank, where water volumes are small...Keep up the good water quality...Execute frequent, small water changes, and observe this fish carefully. Feed high quality food, and I'm sure that you'll see some dramatic improvement in this fish soon! Good luck! Scott F>

The Emperor's New...Respiration Rate?
HI,  
<Hello! Scott F. here!>
I have spent the evening reading your faq and answers regarding angelfish, particularly ones regarding the Emperor.  I recently purchased--about 4 weeks ago -a juvenile Emperor (about  3.5").  He is very active in the tank, but I have noticed his breathing patterns vary.  When I first noticed, I checked all my tank parameters, and even took at sample to my LFS.  They said
everything seemed normal, but the phosphate level was on the high side. I did a water change---about 15 gal in a 55 gal aquarium, and bought some phosphate absorbing material which I added to the carbon in my canister filter....He's had a few bouts with ick, I treated him with freshwater dips, and purchased a 15w UV sterilizer.  Since then the ick seems to be under control..  I am still concerned with his breathing...it just appears to be
high...i read on the webpage that it is not recommended to purchase one if it's rate was greater than 80 breaths per min.  His fluctuates, and does sometimes go above 80.  Also, there have been a few times when I have noticed that he'll just use one gill, when this happens his breathing appears normal on the other side not rapid).  I have become quite attached to having this
fish in my tank...and would hate for anything to happen to it.....is there reason for me to worry?
<Very interesting observations. I have personally observed this phenomenon in a number of Emperors. For the most part, it has never been problematic, in the long term, for any of the specimens that I have witnessed this phenomenon on. Labored breathing and recent disease is cause for heightened alertness on your part. As you may know, one of the symptoms of Amyloodinium is rapid, labored breathing. Labored breathing on a newly acquired specimen could be as a result of collection trauma, or even poisoning... Probably not a concern with your fish, but do keep a close eye on this fish just to be safe.> I have a 55 gal tank, with live rock, a SeaClone protein skimmer, mag350 canister filter, a whisper 30-60 hang on filter, 2 powerheads, 15watt UV sterilizer, a maroon clown, 4 green Chromis, a few cleaner shrimp, and cleaner wrasse, along with a few corals and anenomes.  I do bi weekly water changes with premixed ro/di saltwater from my LFS.
<Good husbandry- you need excellent water quality to keep this fish healthy and happy in the long run! And, I hope that larger quarters are in the future for him? He'll definitely need a large tank to live a normal life span, okay?>
I am trying to learn as much as i can about these fish.....how much should a fish like this grow in a years time?...When will it start going through it's  maturation process, and change color?....
<Usually happens at anywhere between 1 year and 18 months of age...and usually around 5 inches in size. This guy can get large in a couple of years...he needs larger quarters within the year, IMO>
Your site has been the best I've been regarding information on angelfish...I would appreciate any help you can give me....
Thanks, Ronnie
<Well, Ronnie, the Emperor is my all-time favorite fish, too! If you provide him with high water quality, a varied diet...and a large tank- you'll have a magnificent pet that can live for many, many years! Just keep reading all that you can about this fish on the wetwebmedia.com site! Good luck! Regards, Scott F>