FAQs about the Imperator Angel
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Emperor Angel blotchy, not eating while other fish are fine.
Stress/induced, and poisoned by med.s 2/5/13
Thank you so much for always being so incredibly polite and informative
- I've learnt so much from you guys! I need help. I have an Emperor
Angel who is refusing to eat and has large white blotches over his body.
They seem to fade as the day progresses but I've attached a picture of
what he looks like first thing in the morning.
<I see this... and the other angel>
Recent events: I had a run of white spot which I treated with Cupramine
about four months ago. I did this in my display tank, which resulted in
a collapse of my bio filter.
I struggled to get my nitrates down but it eventually budged with the help
of an overpowered skimmer, Nitraguard titanium cubes, special blend and
lots of water changes. The white spot returned and I decided to not
treat it with anything this time.
Its been three to four weeks and I can only see a few signs of white
spot on some of my fishes' fins. They are all eating except for the
I would have assumed that it was just another bout of white spot but my
regal tang who is usually riddled with it is absolutely clear and not
scratching one bit.
The Emperor isn't scratching, but visits the cleaner wrasse and shrimp
often. he also has cloudy eyes and it seems as if there are some stringy
bits around his eye. His fins look a bit frayed and he is covered in
white patches (see photo). I gave him a FW dip two days ago but couldn't
see any flukes. It also didn't seem to change his behaviour at all.
He is in a 125g FOWLR
<Needs more room than this... particularly if you're going to keep the
Holacanthus ciliaris with it... At least twice this volume. I'd get a
300 gallon plus>
along with 1x 5yr old Regal Tang, Adolescent Queen Angel (not sure of
age), 3 x yellow tangs (Medium size), 1 x Auriga butterfly, 1 x blue
cheek goby, 1 x cleaner wrasse, 3 x small ocellaris clowns, and a neon
goby. Also have 2 x cleaner shrimp and a pumpkin urchin. (I'm
upgrading in the next two months, but for real.:))
<Ahh! Or separate the Angels>>
I also recently added a bi-colour angel and a Naso tang
<... there's no room for more fish/es here... and you have a still
resident/active Crypt infestation>
(both quarantined for six weeks) and they died within three days after
being added. Soon after that one of my blue cheeks died and this is when
the Angel stopped eating.
Ph: 8,2 , Alk: 10.0, Sal: 1,020,
Nitrate: 10-25, Nitrite: 0, Ammonia: 0, Temp: 24 - 28 degrees (on very hot
System: 125g with sump, Super Reef XP-5000 Ext cone skimmer,
<Not a fan; see WWM re>
(I usually run ozone through an ozone reactor but the ozonizer has
malfunctioned and I'm waiting for it to be replaced). I've just ordered
a chiller as I've been getting some temperature spikes of up to 28
I'm currently dosing with Metronidazole.
<Shouldn't/can't be used continuously... see WWM re... Stop!>
I'm doing some extra water changes and adding stability and Special blend.
I'm also dosing with some VITC and VITM in hopes that it might
supplement his diet. I suspected Velvet as well,
<No; all fishes would be dead>
but my I got my LFS owner to come and take a look and he couldn't see any
signs on it on the other fishes.
I'm incredibly attached to this fish as he's been there since the start
of my tank. ( Just over a year ago).
Thanks so much!
<... Well, the best course of action is to move the Emperor
elsewhere.... where it will be less stressed. I encourage you to use
Spectrum pelleted food as a staple... And stop medicating. Bob Fenner>
Emperor Angel... hlth. 1/13/11
My new 3" Emperor Angel has been in quarantine for about 5 weeks
now. The quarantine is a 55 gallon with 2 powerheads with sponge
filters, 2 pvc pipes, and an airstone. It that has been running for
over 4 months and has housed fish before the Emperor. The water
parameters are SG:1.025, Temp:75, Ammonia:0, Nitrite:0, and
Nitrate:<5. I treated the Emperor with Cupramine
for Ich upon receiving him for 2 weeks and it cleared up well. For the
next two weeks I did frequent water changes and used activated carbon
to remove the copper. He has been eating well the entire time I have
had him. He eats a combination of Formula 1 and 2, Spirulina flakes,
Angel Formula, and Nori sheets. Everything is soaked in Selcon or
Zoecon before feeding (I switch back and forth).
My problem is that he has developed cloudy fins over the past week that
keep getting worse and are now fraying pretty bad. During this time I
have done 20% water changes every other day. I removed the carbon 2
days ago as this seems to be the problem. I noticed when cleaning the
sponge filters that they were full of carbon powder and upon rinsing
them the water turned very black. This means that there is very fine
powder covering every thing in the tank, every though I really
can't see it very much. The fish is still attentive, eating, and
swimming around pretty well, but the fins are getting very bad and kind
<I'd move this fish... to the main display>
I have become so worried that the carbon powder is poisoning him that I
put him into my 210 gallon.
The water has the same temperature and specific gravity. Ammonia,
nitrite, and nitrate are all 0. The only other fish in the tank is a
5" Scribbled Angel that has completely ignored the Emperor. I hope
this was not the wrong move. My thinking is that the better water
quality will help him regain his health. He was otherwise completely
healthy before this so I was not worried about introducing anything
into my display.
1. Is this thinking correct?
<Seems to be>
2. What else can I do to help him recover?
<Just "good care">
3. I need to completely clean out the quarantine and start over with it
clean for all future fish, correct?
<Mmm, not necessarily... I would do what you can practically do to
remove the carbon powder though>
Thank you very much for you help! I appreciate it greatly!
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>
Re: Emperor Angel, hlth. 1/15/11
Thank you again for your help, the Emperor seems to be doing better in
the main tank.
<Takes time... weeks, months>
His fins aren't recovering much yet, but they have stopped getting
worse. He has been attentive and eating as well, so those are good
signs. My Scribbled ignored him for the first day or so and now today
seems a little aggressive towards the Emperor. I am hoping that will
subside after they are acquainted. There are plenty of hiding spots for
the Emperor to stay out of the way of the Scribbled for now so I am not
worried about that.
I have a couple more questions for you if that is alright? I have been
quite a bit of reading on Palette Tangs on both your site and other
You usually recommend a good starting size for fish when purchasing
them, but I have not found an answer for Palettes. I know they come in
many different sizes including very small. Should I be buying the not
too big and not too small that you seem to apply frequently to other
<Paracanthurus are caught, sold at all sizes... can be started very
small (an inch or two), but I prefer 3 or so inches as best all the way
I am considering getting more than one for my 210, but am wondering if
I can do 2 or if 3 will be necessary to spread any aggression?
<Mmm, I would not really... can be found in the wild in small
groups, but generally better solo in captive settings>
I know they will all need to be introduced simultaneously, so if I get
more than one should they all be the same size or should I get
I hope I have not overlooked the answers to this on the site, and if I
I do apologize. Thank you again for your time and effort!
Emperor Angel - Loosing Color 11/27/10
I read the section about Emperor Angels on the website and got a
lot of information. Only thing that was missing were some pics to
give more clarity to issues that people like me are facing.
I added some pics in the hope that it will help you understand my
issue and also help others who may get the same issue.
<I see a blanching juvenile... "classical" stress
I have a juvenile emperor angel for 3 months now in a 100 Gallon
tank. It has been active, eating well for the past three month
and had fantastic colors as shown in pic 1.
Recently I did a 25% water change and everything was fine for a
week. All of a sudden, I noticed that off all the fish, the
emperor was starting to loose color and appear pale in patches as
shown in the rest of the pics. He was moving fine but was loosing
I immediately checked the parameters and saw that the nitrites
had jumped to .25 .
The Clarkii Clowns, ocellaris clowns and yellow tail blue damsel
were all fine. To be on the safe side, I moved all except the
damsel thinking that he was hardy and as the QT is a little small
and the damsel was going after the ocellaris clowns which he
didn't ever do in the other tank. Now I feel that I acted
<Mmm, no need to move these fishes, but a great need to
determine what happened to your biofiltration and fix it
By morning I came to check on the fish and noticed that the
damsel was dead in the tank. The Nitrites had jumped to 1.0 and
in around 3 hours, it was back to 0 ppm. I use the API saltwater
I checked the parameters once again and saw that everything was
fine and moved the fish back to the tank. Its been five days now
and the emperor seems to have become inactive. He moves very
slowly and also goes horizontal and vertical. Sometimes staying
at the top of the tank like a dead leaf and sometimes at the
bottom flat. I kept checking the parameters and they are fine but
I have no idea why he is acting like this.
<In a word: Stress>
He has now stopped eating, he come close to the food, looks at it
and goes back. Is this due to nitrite poisoning or stress. How
much time does it normally take for things like this to heal?
<Usually a few days>
His breathing is sometimes very fast and sometimes slow, so I
really don't know what is wrong I tried keeping count and it
was less than 60 at a point and then it was so fast that I hardly
could keep count. I have kept him separate right now, but I am
really worried as he is my wife's favorite and she is out of
town and if anything happens to him, I will have hell to pay :-).
I have stayed awake for the past two nights and have not gone to
work also in the fear that something will go wrong when I leave
Do tell me what the problem could be. Also does this API Ammo
Lock and Stress Marine help in any way. I used only API Stress
Marine when I did the water change.
<I'd be careful re these water conditioners... IF you
remove all the ammonia, you might well kill off your
My water parameters are as follows
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrite - .25 to 1.0 ppm spike and now back to 0 ppm (all I did
was a water changes and then I got a spike. I added API Stress
Coat Marine since I did the water change.)
Nitrates - 20 ppm
Do you think I should have another Nano skimmer in the QT?
Also does a Nitrate processor such as the one mentioned here
do any good.
<Can, but these devices are "finicky" in actual
operation. Not dependable>
Thanks for your help in Advance.
<Do be careful to not overfeed... Bob Fenner>
Emp with spots and dull covering over eyes.
Many thanks for a very great and useful service you provide for reefers
all over the world, I am sure you have saved the lives of many fish
around the world.
I bought an emperor angel about 3 months ago, I had it in QT for two
weeks, it did have lymphocillia on the fins when I got it, and I
treated it with a local treatment that is available, called
"Parasite Clear" made by Jungle "Tank Buddies". The
product is a tropical product
for the treatment of flukes as well as other parasites.
<Yes... has naught to do w/ viral matters directly>
Unfortunately Prazi is not available in South Africa, and
hobbyist's here in SA have had success with the product. It is a
week long treatment, and after two weeks of treating, I put the angel
in the display tank. It did still have lymphocillia that was showing
signs of improvement, and I knew the better conditions in the display
tank would help the lymphocillia. The emperor eats very well, is
extremely fat, and I feed lots of garlic in the foods. It has had very
small bouts of white spot from time to time, but I was never worried
about it as it eats so much (parameters are all in check). Today now I
noticed that it did not want to eat, and was very restless under the
one rock, it does dash/jerk erratically at times, and the one gill is
very still compared to the other.
<Not necessarily indicative of any ill>
On close inspection I saw a light dull film over the eyes, as well as
spots, could this be WS over the eyes, or could it be flukes that were
missed in the QT?
(No other fish have been added)
I would really appreciate any advice or help.
<I would do a pH adjusted freshwater dip and move this fish to the
main/display system. See WWM re dips/baths. Bob Fenner>
emperor angel... hlth., reading
Hi Guys, Maybe you could help me, My Emperor Angel fish who is my
beautiful bay, has developed having white blotches all over him or her,
the blotches appear to be under the skin not a lump or anything on the
skin just these white blotches, then all of a sudden the y seem to
disappear but he or she has cloudy eyes, he or she eats like a horse
and when I go near the tank he or she comes hurriedly to the top in the
expectation of food. I do have live corals in the tank and Anemones in
the tank so I have to be careful of what I treat he or she
with.Somedays there are no white blotches then other days there all
over he or she. HELP as I do not want to lose beautiful Angel as he or
she is just beautiful,,,HOPE YOU CAN HELP HELP. Water Conditions are
spot on ,,,Regards Kathy
<... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/EmpAHlthF4.htm
and the linked files above... You've presented little useful
information re the system, actual water quality history, foods,
feeding... other tankmates... There is a strong likelihood of a
mal-reaction w/ your Cnidarians here, but w/o images et al...
impossible to have much confidence w/ guesses. And DO run your writing
through a spell-check before sending.
Please... STOP SHOUTING! Re-key your msg. not in all cap.s and
Subject: hhd and later line disease
I HAVE AN AFRICAN EMPEROR ANGELFISH THAT IS SUFFERING FROM HHD AND
RE: hhd and later line disease 8/2/10
ok ...I wasn't shouting, just wrote in caps..
<Ahh, this is indeed what I was referring to. Please read here
I have an African emperor angelfish that is 8 inches or so, she has
developed hhd,lle. I was feeding her spectrum pellets and romaine
<... please see WWM re such terrestrial greens>
but I suppose that wasn't enuff nutritional value, so I switched to
Hikari marine a..she is in a 220 with a lrg puffer and huma huma
trigger...I do 60 gal water changes biweekly. its a fish only with no
live rox, just living color pieces. she was housed with a lrg sohal 8n
inch plus but I sold her about 2 wks ago. the puffer is about 8 inch
and the trigger 5 or so inch, I use a wet/dry, uv ster.,reactor with
seagel in it, chiller..plz help..
<... Please run your writing through spelling/grammar checking
before sending... And read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/EmpAHlthF4.htm
and the linked files, elsewhere where you lead yourself, and here:
and the linked files above... And DO search before writing us per our
instructions on how you found to write us period. Bob Fenner>
Re: hhd and later line disease..... 8/3/10
Ok let's try this again....I have an African Emperor Angelfish that
is housed in a 220 gal. it's filtered with a wet/dry, skimmer,
chiller, reactor filled with seagel. The decor is living color
artificial coral, and the substrate is sand. The inhabitants are an 8
inch Cortez blue spotted puffer and a 5 inch Huma Huma. There was an 8
inch Sohal , but I sold her 2 weeks ago.
<Good. Two alpha fish of size in this volume is trouble>
They would beef with each other on occasion, but nothing serious. Then
I was feeding her spectrum and Romaine lettuce. I tried soaking the
pellets in Selcon and let them dry for a few hrs, then feed them. Was
this the ok way of doing it?
<Is a help, but not a cure of itself>
Anyways, she never improved...I also feed the O.S.I. shrimp pellets,
the puffer goes crazy for them. He wont even try the spectrum or
anything else that I feed them. And also he will only go after pellets
that are of a light brown color, nothing else, he used to eat anything
I would put in there. Though he still eats hermits and crabs with
gusto! Now for the angelfish, I'm going to switch to formula II and
ocean nutrition seaweed along with the Hikari that I soak now in Selcon
<Please read where you were referred to last time. B>
I do 60 gal water changes every 2 weeks and have 2 ground probes just
in case in the wet/dry. One connected to the surge protector and the
other to the outlet in the wall. Now I feed them Hikari Marine A since
it has Vit C
in it, something spectrum left out. She has a voracious appetite and
eats everything I put in there. Please tell me if my game plan is on
the right track or not...many thanks...Phil
Re: hhd and later line disease -- 8/3/10
ok.... I will do what I read in the article that you mentioned earlier.
I appreciate your help..Phil
<Your (nutrition) plan as stated is good... but you'd do well to
do what you can practically do to improve water quality altogether.
Please do make/take some good photos of your Pomacanthus now... and
track its progress. Cheers, B>
Is This Crypt? 7/25/10
I have a friend that has a gorgeous Imperator Angel ( 5-6")
that was recently acquired by mail order. It has been in a QT for
approx 4 weeks treated "prophylactically" in SG 1.009
and Chloroquine Phosphate per Goemans recommendations. The
fish is eating, and seems "OK". The question here is
what are these white spots?
My friend thinks that they are Cryptococcus
<Cryptocaryoniasis, Cryptococcus is a genus of fungi.>
irritans. I am not so sure.
<I believe your friend is correct.>
Firstly, these have been on the fish for 2-3 weeks. The fish is
breathing OK and when one of these lesions does go away there is
some pitting and discoloration. I have seen this before as a form
of HLLE when treating a Naso Tang with hyposalinity.
<Is not a form of erosion.>
Every time we talk this issue comes up. I have recommended that
he continue the Chloroquine but start raising the
salinity. Any thoughts?
<This fish needs to be treated with a more effective
medication. See here.
James (Salty Dog)>
| Appears so. RMF
Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/15/10
Been a long time since I asked a question. I have had a 180
Gallon FOWLER for 12 years. (Inhabitants 10" Emperor Angel (
6 yrs old , 7 " Blue Girdle Angel 6 years old , 10"
Naso Tang 11 years old, 4" Heniochus Butterfly 11 years old,
Fox Face, 12 years old, 2 brittle stars )
<Wow, really good ages some of these, well done!>
All going well until approx 3 days ago. Emp. Angel has quit
eating, but still behaving normally.
<Mmm, Pomacanthus not eating is not behaving normally>
Maybe hiding a bit more, but hard to say. (Comes to top of tank
during feeds, approaches food with interest, pecks at it and then
<This does not seem good to me>
When I approach tank it swims to the feeding corner, but does not
assume the position of dominance like it did in the past to get
first crack at the food. All other inhabitants doing well.
Emperor Angel has had HLLE but not that badly (some cratering
around nostrils, mild loss of coloration around face but no
visible lateral line disease. Only other thing that I have noted
is that the mouth/ lips is just a bit swollen but not reddened or
<May have been in a tussle with one of the others. Can you
provide a picture of this?>
It almost seems as if "it hurts" for the fish to open
its mouth. I have used multiple food sources to no avail.
I have had a busy work schedule recently, but have changed water
once every 4-6 weeks, on a couple of times went 8-10 weeks.
<With these fish in this volume, this is far too little. I
would be stepping these up to weekly>
Recently I have made a major water change (80 gallons ) with aged
mixed R/O salt. And from there have been doing small partial
water changes daily ( 20 Gallons )
System has been closed to new inhabitants for over 5 years.
Emperor Angel has no other signs of disease...to look at it,
other than the mild protuberance of the mouth, no signs of
disease. I am almost thinking that the mouth has suffered trauma,
but I see no evidence of any abrasions, or redness, just the mild
swelling of the lips.
I will continue doing partial water changes daily, until it
hopefully starts to feed. Try vitamins, iodine supplements,
Selcon.. but food supplements don't do much good if not
Any other suggestions
<Yes, moving this fish to another system, a larger and less
crowded one. I suspect a tank-mate as the culprit here.. perhaps
the Naso, although it could be that this fish psychologically
just needs more room now and it is telling you this with it's
change of behaviour. I do think that 180 gallons, even
un-crowded, is too small for P. Imperator. Another possibility is
that this is just an injury of some kind and will heal on
it's own in time>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/16/10
<No problem Jimmy>
I completely agree on the water changes. The Emperor has been
such a gladiator of a fish
and the king ( or queen ) of the tank for years. I have been
reefkeeping for 25 years and it is my impression that this fish
is either traumatized, <Probably> getting old <No. These
can live 30 years>, or outgrown the house (or a
<Likely the first and last here>
It gives me the impression that it is really hungry but cannot
bring itself to eat!
<The mouth looks swollen to me, but with no sign of an injury.
I wonder if Bob might have some input here.. will post to his box
for his comments if he has any>
If water conditions or trauma are the culprit, it should be able
to recover nicely.
<Yes, it should>
I will send a picture.
<I see these, and apart from the swollen mouth and Neuromast
destruction the fish looks otherwise healthy. I think time is on
your side here, but ultimately this fish needs more room than is
being provided. The HLLE is a clue to the unsuitability of the
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/16/10
Here are some pictures
What do you think
<Is HLLE in one of its guises... "cures" as Simon
states can be found in the linked pages. BobF>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/17/10
Thanks so much for your responses.
As of today the Emp Angel is still not eating. I don't know
how long it can go like this before winding down?
<By the look of the fish, a couple of weeks at least>
I went back and looked at pictures of this fish when I first
adopted it, and I must say, it looked a bit more vibrant 5-6
years ago. I agree, captivity has taken its toll on this animal.
Curiously, however, there is a Naso Tang as well as a Majestic
Angel in the same system that are as vibrant and as healthy as
the day they were adopted.
<Mmm, the Navarchus grows a lot smaller than the Emperor --
not only in length, but overall body mass, so does not have the
same space considerations. If you are talking about N. lituratus,
this also needs more space than this, but Emperor Angels are
sensitive fish, despite their sometimes pugnacious and seemingly
bulletproof behaviour. They require more care than N. Lituratus
and suffer more easily from stress & it's related
maladies such as HLLE>.
To look at the Emperor Angel and to track its behaviour, one
would hardly think that there was anything wrong. The fish still
swims to the top of the tank when I stand in front of the
aquarium and has a very natural and flowing demeanor to its
motion. In no way do I sense a panic or skittish behaviour. As an
avid reef keeper and physician of 25 years, other than the lack
of feeding and the HLLE, it is difficult to tell that there is
anything wrong here.
<I would 'change' something here, either by removing
this fish to another system, or a/ some of the others (the Naso
& Navarchus are the prime candidates) at least temporarily to
see if you can get the animal to feed in a less crowded
I have been able to recover fish from illness in the past. The
Naso and Majestic are prime examples. Years ago when the tank was
first established, I had an outbreak of crypt and then HLLE after
copper treatment. All fish were QT'd, the display was left
sans fish for 8 weeks and the fish were slowly reintroduced. HLLE
went away and all have been " visibly disease free"
since. Presently, the fact that the other inhabitants of the
system are so robust and without even a hint of HLLE is a bit of
<Mmm, this can build up unseen for a while, only presenting
signs later on. Your other fish could be on their way to visible
symptoms also here>
So, my advice to myself at this point is to exercise patience and
good fish husbandry.
WWM and experience has taught me this. Daily partial water
changes, varied diet and TLC is about all I can offer.
<I think one/ other needs to be moved here. Preferably the
Imperator'¦ to an uncrowded 8 foot+ system sans large
aggressive fishes. Have you tried NLS pellet food? Thera A,
supplemented w/ Nori soaked in vitamins + Beta Glucan, some red
macroalgae also http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/feature.htm
The rest is out of my hands. I am thankful that this captive
slice of the sea has provided so much enjoyment for me as well as
<Maybe it's time to pay this fish back in
kind'¦ with a larger or at least less crowded
Thanks Guys, I will let you know how things turn out
<Good luck Jimmy>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/17/10
Emp Angel still in no eat mode...shows interest in food,
approaches to take a nip and then pulls back. How long can a
marine fish "otherwise healthy" live without eating
<Depends on the individual fish and species... to 'stay
alive' a good few weeks here. To stay alive AND be able to
recover.. a couple of weeks tops for large Pomacanthus. As
posted, I would change 'something' here>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/22/10
Just a bit of an update re : Emperor Angel still not eating (been
8 days ) . HLLE is a bit worse.
<Mmm, need to act then>
Rest of the inhabitants in display are thriving and eating no
problem. The display has had "reef-like" water
parameters for the past week.
<Would be doing 2- 3 water changes per week here>
I am making arrangements to move the fish to a larger tank,
but there is some hesitation on the others accepting the fish
given the fact that the fish is not eating.
<It is great that you recognise that action of some kind is
required. What other fish are in this larger system and how large
In the meantime I have set up a 55 g tank as a quarantine of
Unfortunately, despite trying to jump start the nitrogen cycle
with rock and media from the main display, as of day 3 the QT is
running very high ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates.
<Of no use at present then. Have you tried the bottled
I had a wet dry filter running back onto itself ( pumping from
sump to media ) that I would occasionally do water changes from
the main display with waste laden water siphoned from the
substrate of the main display to the wet dry to provide necessary
waste to keep the wet dry cycled. I also used 55 gallons of water
from the display (mostly from substrate siphoning) to start the
QT. The fact that ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all very high
at 60 hours indicates that the QT already has high populations of
Nitrosomonas, and Nitrobacter present and hopefully will cycle
I will then transfer the Emperor to this system, while I am in
the process of finding a new home.
<This could go either way.. sometimes moving the fish to a
different system halts the progress of HLLE, but this is a much
smaller system, with all the drawbacks of such, and you are
populating it with stock from your existing system. Moving the
Emperor here might not relieve any stress on the fish,
potentially it will just add new/ different stressors, and the
last thing he needs now is exposure to ammonia. Once this QT is
cycled, you could consider temporarily moving one/ more of the
others here instead, and trying to get the Emperor to feed where
it is now in the main system until you can move it to a larger
home. If there is more live rock available in the 180 as well,
then this will be of more benefit to the Emperor if he decides to
graze. Do you have any more live rock w/ good growth that can be
placed here as well? Maybe some from a sump area>
At this point I am not optimistic, but hoping that in isolation
with optimal water conditions I can nurse this fish back to
<Let's hope so!>
We will see how it goes. Any other suggestions from the experts
would be welcome!
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/23/10
<No problem Jimmy>
All excellent points, all of which, I am taking into
consideration. Though I want to save the Emperor, I also have a
concern for the other animals in the system. The last thing I
need is to risk widespread disease in a closed system that is
brought on by a weak fish.
<Mmm, no. HLLE is not 'catching', is environmental,
and the fish looks otherwise healthy>
Alas, I really do need to move here since I have started to
notice some very mild aggression toward the Emperor by others in
<What you perceive is only a small part of what is happening
betwixt the fishes>
They sense there will soon be a change in the pecking
order.......overall a very natural behavior. It is my sense that
the QT will be ready for fish soon ( 3-4 days ) and then I will
go from there. The QT is really not a "new" system, I
just probably overwhelmed the wet dry filter by using water
obtained by siphoning debris from substrate from the display. SO
the irony here is that I am dealing with two cycles.......the
wait for the QT to cycle and the cycle of life in the
One final question, I have two brittle stars in the main display
that have gotten quite large. They are not of the green variety,
rather the flesh is pink with gray bristles. They do a great job
scavenging. The fish seem to stop and stare a bit before moving
through an area that is occupied by them but otherwise seem
undaunted. Are these a threat to the fish in the tank?
<No, these are beneficial scavengers http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brittlestars.htm>
Should I look for a new home for them also?
<These are fine here>
Pretty obvious here that as I inventory my tank, it looks like I
have been a victim of my own success. As I look over pictures
from six years ago ALL of the inhabitants have grown
<Indeed, but you have stocked with some large growers>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/28/10
Need some expert advice. I could not find anyone to adopt the
Emperor Angel. I had to take just about every rock out of the
main display to eventually guide it into a Plexiglas container,
with a bit of thrashing afterward. Is this the method you would
<I use a large plastic colander for large fishes, especially
Angels, guided in with a net>
The fact that the fish is not eating was a major deterrent to it
It is now housed in a 75G ( 48x20x18 ) quarantine tank.
<Mmm, as I previously stated, I would have preferred to leave
this fish in the display and temporarily remove the others until
it started to feed>
24 hours after the move, the fish settled down. It now swims
about. Once again, shows interest in food, approaches as if to
take a nibble and then jerks back. To the best of my knowledge it
has not eaten for at least 14, maybe a couple of days longer.
<Mmm, is the fish thinning at all?>
It is unlikely that this fish is going to survive, long term.
<I do think there is hope still here>
Though not eating, as long as the fish shows even some interest
in food....Is it therefore fair to say there is still a
<Yes - a good one>
What is the longest you have ever seen a fish like this go on a
hunger strike and survive?
<I have never had a fish go on a feeding strike for this
length of time.>
I am still trying to find a new home for this animal...other than
that is there anything else that you would advise me to do?
<Keep persevering with different foods.. keep the water
quality up.. I would have left this fish where there was live
rock present, but...>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 6/29/10
Unfortunately, I do not have multiple tanks set up to house the
others in the display. Difficult decision to push a 75 gallon
system with a 10" Naso, 7" Foxface 6 " Majestic
and 4" Heniochus...would run the risk of overwhelming the
<One of the drawbacks to putting too many large fish into too
I understand that would have been best for the Emperor, though. I
even considered up sizing to a 96x24x24 display, but as Angels
can also outgrow such a system, also.
<This, uncrowded, the barest minimum I would say for this fish
or the Naso>
The fish is thinning out but it was very fat to begin with and
could easily eat 2 ocean nutrition cubes for breakfast. The new
system does have some live rock in it, though, not as
<I would persevere here.. as long as the fish is not thinning
around the head & eyes there is hope yet>
I will continue to offer foods and keep water quality up. I am
pleasantly surprised at how well a fan blowing across the top of
the tank cools the water by evaporation. My garage is 85 degrees
but tank temp is 78.
Is the colander that you use semi circular or cylindrical in
<Is a circular one.. You need to find one that has smooth
edges to the holes & rim.. perhaps stainless steel is an
option as well. Use a net to guide the fish in, a little tricky
sometimes, but negates the possibility of damage to the gill
<No problem, Simon>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 7/2/10
Thanks for all of your help.
I have done much thinking over the past few weeks and I have
decided to upgrade my tank.
<Well, that's just marvelous news! Me, I LOVE big tanks
I will be moving from a 24x24x72 (180g) display to a 24x24x96
As I read on WWM, I completely realize that any size tank can be
out grown by its inhabitants, so I will definitely keep my
stocking density low, lower in fact than it is now in the
<Well done.. your fishes will thank you for it>
I am not going to rush into this transition which means that I
may have to find a new home for a couple of my fish. (10"
Naso Tang is way too big for a 24x24x72 display, and probably
likewise for the 96x24x24.
I have been involved in the hobby so long that I will not really
need to invest in much more than the tank, which will still be a
chunk of change.
<Costly indeed.. my latest glass box set me back nearly
So, my question to you here, is there another tank size that I
should consider ( FOWLR )?
<For the fishes that you have now? The bigger the better. For
the Navarchus, Heniochus & a couple of smaller others? The
new size you state will be fine>
I understand that the difference between an 8 ft tank and a 6
foot tank is a pretty big jump in fishkeeping terms.
<To the fishes it will make a bigger difference, and an 8ft
tank IS impressive to view>
Would a 300g size of the same length but a bit taller be an equal
incremental jump (as the jump from my 180 to the 240).
<No, as surface area is more important than depth. Given the
choice though I would go an extra few inches in height here
myself anyway, but if you could expand the width some 3-6 inches
or more as well this will make a much bigger difference and give
a much nicer look/ feel to the system.>
I know I have said this many times before, but I really want for
this to be my last tank purchase.
<Then I really would have a think and see if you can widen the
tank some.. gives a sensational impression of depth and opens up
far more aquascaping possibilities.>
<No problem Jimmy. Simon>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE -- 7/12/10
<Mmm, he's marked "out till 8/2. Has asked that
others resp. in his place. Howdy!>
Just wish to update you on the Emperor Angel. Unfortunately, I
could not find anyone interested in taking the fish since it was
not eating. And to update you I moved it into a 75 G tank in my
garage. In retrospect, you were right, that the thing to do was
either to move this fish to a larger system or to move some of
the other fish in the tank to another system.
<Yes. Have been reading you twos corr. while placing
Unfortunately, this was not possible for me. After the move the
fish perked up for a day or two and 4 weeks into its hunger
strike it actually did eat two krill. Unfortunately, that was a
week ago, and the hunger strike continues. Aside from this
feeding, this fish has not eaten in 5 + weeks. It is thinning out
and losing tissue ( MHLLE ) between the eyes as well as between
the spines of the dorsal fins. It still orients to me when I walk
into the room and seems less interested in even approaching food.
Things do not look very good for this animal and I really hate to
see it like this. Even though it still swims around the tank, I
sense that the end is near. I am not sure what else I can do at
this point to ease any suffering, but lesson learned here.
<Mmm, have you tried an open bivalve yet? Perhaps with a bit
of appetite enhancer (e.g. SeaChem's Vitality) soaked on it
for a few minutes?>
It seems pretty clear to me now that this fish may have stopped
eating secondary to insufficient space. I looked over my log and
notes that this fish was purchased as a 5" adult in 2004. 18
mo.s ago, at 9.5 inches the first signs of a lack of space
manifested as HLLE. And 5 weeks ago silently just stopped eating.
My understanding of the life cycles of these fish in the ocean is
that at some point they "migrate" to deeper parts of
<Mmm, I've encountered full-size adults of this species in
a few tens of feet depths all over its range>
So it all comes down to available real estate. For humans this
lack of space would be kind of like sleeping in a bed that is too
small...can survive but never with truly restful sleep.
<A useful model>
Which leads me to believe that these fish need to be kept in
tanks that are much larger than what most people have available
in their homes.
<Yes... I suggest a minimum of 300 uncrowded gallons for large
Unbelievable, considering the popularity of this beautiful
animal. I am not sure how old this is by my best guess anywhere
from 8-10 years ( 3-4 years when I got it and I have had it for
<Welcome... Do have a read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/emperorfdgfaqs.htm
and the linked files above, if you haven't already. Bob
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 7/13/10
Nice to hear from you again! I do not know if you remember, but I
am the one years ago that really thought hyposalinity worked for
crypt when I brought the imperator in to begin with!
<I seem to recall...>
I went back and read our posts, and I must say , very nice
Amazingly, tonight I put this fish back in the 180g FOWLR. Even
in it's weakened state, it assumed dominance, again, and ate
...after a 5 week hunger strike.
We will see how things go from here, but I have a suspicion that
this animal may be slowing down due to it's age.
What a beautifully graceful animal! I feel badly as these
creatures really do belong in the wild.
<Mmm, I do want to make a def. statement here: It is my sense
that the sacrifice/use of "some" part of the living
world is merited "IF" said use serves to inform,
inspire humans re our world>
Though I love the hobby, I am, over the past couple of years
beginning to feel against keeping such animals in captivity.
Over the past 20 years I have kept just about every marine fish
that I have had a desire to keep. Perhaps it is time for me to go
full circle and keep damsels or others that are better suited to
the captive marine environment.
<I keep fancy goldfish, and sparse few tropicals>
<Thank you Jimmy. BobF>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 7/20/10
Just an update on my adult Emperor Angel. To recap, this fish was
purchased as an adult in 2004 ( 5-6" ) and has adapted
wonderfully to its 180 g fowler. The tank has been a closed
system for 6 years and also has an adult Majestic Angel, Fiji
Foxface, Naso Tang, and Heniochus Butterfly. All of the fish were
about 1/2 their present sizes when introduced and clearly too
large / too many for this system. I have had a busy work schedule
so I did get a bit behind on my water changes, but seemed to
always get in a 40g change once every 4-6 weeks or more
On 6/08/2010, I noticed that the Emp Angel had stopped eating and
began showing signs of progressing HLLE. I did a 80g water change
and then 20 g water changes every day to every other day, to no
avail. The others in the tank were doing great. The others showed
some aggression to this fish, but the fish actually stayed very
calm in its demeanor and shrugged off the aggression without
panic and was always out swimming, not hiding. By 6/18/2010 I
moved the angel to a 55 g quarantine tank which was way too
small, so I set up a 75 g tank and moved it there...better but
still too small and not eating. I kept water quality up and
persevered. No signs of external disease just no eating. Interest
in food yes but no eating. Amazingly on July 5, the fish ate for
the first time in a month ( two krill )
By July 13, I could not stand to see this fellow suffer much
longer...it was thinning out but still swimming peacefully about
the tank. HLLE worse, of course. I had been offering daily food
morsels fit for a king ( fresh mussels, krill, shrimp, angel
formula etc ) to no avail. Then as a gut instinct I moved the
fish back to its home of 6 years, my 180g FOWLER. I corralled the
fish into a plastic bag to minimize stress and moved it to
matching water conditions in the 180g. Though other inhabitants
challenged it for dominance, it regained dominance within 24
hours AND started eating..can't explain this.
Now, one week later, the fish is eating but exhibiting a strange
behavior. With some coarse foods, like pellets, but to some
degree with all foods it aggressive in its approach to the food
item, grabs it and then rears back extending its jaws and moving
side to side as if it has taken too big of a bite and the food is
stuck in its throat. It does not regurgitate the food once taken,
but it does not look comfortable swallowing certain food items
like pellets. It seems to do much better with thawed, chopped
ocean nutrition cubes. Any thoughts
<Mmm, none... this does seem odd. Perhaps some sort of
stenosis has occurred through... this fish not eating for such an
extended period? BobF>
Re: Emperor Angel and HLLE 7/20/10
My thoughts exactly. Though eating and improving, this fish
clearly has difficulty, and probably pain, when swallowing foods.
If this is a result of some kind of internal trauma things should
get better. If it is an enlarging tumor the fish will perish,
only time will tell. Never in my 40 years in the hobby, however,
have I seen such a fish go on a 1 month+ hunger strike and make
such a comeback. The sheer mass of this particular fish and
previous states of good health are probably major contributors to
its survival in this instance.
Though I completely agree with Simon's recommendation earlier
in this thread that these fish need a larger tank, IMO the
problem with the Emp. Angel is probably unrelated to tank
<Mmm, to some extent...>
( Unless, of course, the stress of the smaller tank caused a
tumor to begin with ) And, for a fish like this to go on a hunger
strike and then make a comeback, water and tank conditions must
be pretty decent.
<Or, as you speculate above, there is "something"
else going on with this fish; perhaps internally>
My only remedies in this case included a period of quarantine in
pristine water conditions,( though in a smaller tank) followed by
re-introduction to the previous environment ( the fish's home
of the last 6 years ) after bringing that home from
"FOWLR" water condition to REEF parameters. As much as
is written about the sensitivity of these Pomacanthids to their
environments, once they settle down, they are quite hardy.
I will keep you posted
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Help....Marine Angels? 5/10/10
Hi WetWebMedia The greatest Helpful Website....... Please'¦
I need some help with my new emperor Angle Fish.......
<Marine Angelfish I assume you mean.>
She is been 5 days in my tang
And she eats Only fresh Lettuce and Spinach Only nothing else..
<So long as she's eating something, you have time to wean her
onto something else. Do have a read of this article:
There's a very thoughtful analysis of Angelfish diet. As you can
see, a mixture of things is important. Lettuce is fine enough in its
way, but it contains almost no energy or protein. So you do need to mix
things up! Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/feeding.htm
Since newly purchased specimens are often shy, offering some fresh
seafood they can graze on makes a big difference. As Bob Fenner
suggests, an opened clam or mussel will do a good job here:
Beyond that, a mix of fresh seafood plus "plant" material of
marine origin (e.g., Sushi Nori) is what you need in the long term.
I'd guess that most failures with Angelfish come down to
Can you tell me why please she doesn't except any frozen food and
other at all'¦..
<Not all Angelfish do well in captivity. Some do very badly indeed.
So it's important to make sure you have the right Angelfish for
your aquarium. Read here:
My Tang <tank> is 850 letters with wet dry
filter'¦.with balls. I have one yellow tang -- one blue tang
-4 blue damsels -- and one clown -- 2 Chromos Damsels. Please Help As
Soon As you can......
With All My Pleaser
<Indeed? Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Help....Marine Angel
I am So Sorry for my language misstep and thanks So Much for correcting
I am So Sorry I can't read the entire article about the Angel fish
that sent the link for it'¦
<Try using a web site like Babelfish to translate it. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ >
And I just want one advice to do with my Emperor Angel fish that she
doesn't eat anything at all.. and I don't have the time and all
the good translation for it'¦.so please..do some fasting
<No. For this fish, you need to give lots of different foods. They
quickly starve. When they starve, they die.>
She is just eating fresh Lettuce.
<This is not enough.>
I tried so hard to give her Mixed of frozen food that I made with Some
Shrimp + Nori + octopus + some white fish + Oyster'¦.
<Just offer these foods in small amounts. No need to mix them.
Shrimp on Monday, Nori on Tuesday, tilapia on Wednesday, and so on.
Make sure water quality in the aquarium is good. Try a good, balanced
marine fish flake food.>
What Can I do to give her something else'¦.
<You really do need to read. The page on Pomacanthus imperator is
The section on "Feeding" is short. So try and translate it.
Basically, this species needs a good, varied diet. It isn't a fussy
feeder. But like all Angelfish, needs a big aquarium and good water
quality. Will not eat if it is feeling sick.>
Thanks a lot
<Maybe try and find a fish club/forum in your part of the world?
Would perhaps help you to talk with others who speak your language? But
we are happy to help as much as we can. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Help...Marine Angel 5/11/10
Today she stopped eating Lettuce, she start cut some pieces and throw
it out of her Mouth and doesn't eat anything at
all..'¦.it is the big Disaster'¦
<I cannot offer any help without details. How big is the aquarium?
What is the water quality? What is the salinity? What is the pH? All
these things matter. Pomacanthus imperator is not an easy species to
keep. It needs a big aquarium. Minimum, 1000 litres/250 gallons. Good
water quality: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 20 mg/l nitrate.
Salinity should be steady SG 1.025 at 25 degrees Celsius. The pH should
be pH 8.2 and not varying much at all between water changes.
Pomacanthus imperator is a fish for EXPERIENCED marine aquarists only.
When maintained by beginners, they usually die. The fact this fish is
not eating probably means its environment is poor. Something is wrong
with the aquarium. Look to fix the environment first. When the aquarium
is good, this fish will eat.
emperor angel, env. dis. -- 4/12/10
I have a 55 gallon FOWL that has been up and running for about 8
The current set-up has a 7 year old 5" Hippo Tang, Ranford Goby, 8
Hermit crabs, 12 Snails, a small Chocolate Chip Star fish, and a
4" juvenile Emperor Angel added about a week ago.
<This system is much too small for this Pomacanthus>
This is a temporary home for the Angel until I can get my 180 gallon,
presently freshwater, set up for salt.
The angel acclimated well, is swimming around freely and eating
While watching him I have noticed that he scratches on rock once every
5 to 10 minutes.
<Mmm, may be "nothing">
I have also noticed an occasional twitch of his head.
I have never had any disease in the tank, knock on wood, and never
treated with any chemicals. I have noticed some bristle worms and am
presently setting a trap for them. Should I be concerned with Ick or
I know I should have used a quarantine tank.
The PH is 8.3, temp 78 degrees, spec grav 1.0225, sal 31,
<Too low IMO>
no ammonia or nitrites, nitrates at 25.
<And too high... these water quality measures could account for the
twitching, scratching beh.>
I use RODI water and I am preparing a 15 gallon water change. I use an
emperor power filter with additional phosphate removing pads
<Not a fan. See WWM re>
and an Aqua C Remora protein skimmer. Any suggestions would be
appreciated. Thank you.
<Getting this fish into the larger system stat.. Bob Fenner>
Emperor Angel success... hlth., sel. --
Tanks <Is this a bad joke, or do you mean 'thanks'?>
in advance for what I know will be the best answer I can get on this
<Let's hope so>
I got a gorgeous 6" Emperor 3 days ago as a birthday gift.
<Oooooh.. a front runner in the 'most beautiful fish'
category for sure>
Adult colors directly from Vanuatu. No middle dealer. Very fat, eats
good, eyes & fins clear. The local shop dipped him in FW mixed with
Methane Blue upon arrival.
He stayed in that solution for 10 minutes. I'm a friend of the
official "dipper" guy there. He told me that night what a
great specimen that had just come in and that I should consider
acquiring it for my 320 FOWLER tank.
<Yes, but I have the controversial viewpoint that these special
fishes should be placed in a reef system of size, not fish only. 320
gallons is a nice size tank however>
I was hesitant to do so as I had heard over the years that Emperors
from Indo aren't as hardy as the Red Sea or Australian ones.
<This is true for all fishes initially, but once settled in most
rate 'about the same'>.
He talked me into coming down to see it, I did, loved it but still did
not want such a touchy species.
<Hmm, this is THE fish in my opinion, and the one that I would have
chosen over all others>
I was looking to get a Koran
<A great fish and easier than the Emperor>
<A very beautiful fish, but too aggressive in general for me.
Neither of these are as beautiful as the Emperor>
The Emperor stayed in QT at the shop for 2 weeks. All QT tanks are
supplied a constant low dose of Prazi-Pro.
My birthday was the next day, and my friend there bought it from the
shop owner at a fantastic price as a gift for me.
He brought it over, we set up my 40 gallon tub QT tank I learned about
from Bob's book, and he's now been in there with main tank
water, 2 pieces of live rock, sponge filters from main sump.
<This will be fine for the short term>
Eats great, eyes, fins still clear. I thanked him but told him I was
still unsure about adding the new fish to my tank due to its rating on
your site. He said if it got sick, he'd help me with it. That just
doesn't bring me comfort. I'm an intermediate fish keeper,
<soon to be an expert now> and poured over your article on these
fish, and my heart just sank. It was good to see they were hardier than
some of the other Angel species, but these from Indo are not high on
<I would not worry too much here -- if he is eating and not hiding
then the battle is nearly won. He should be 'interested' in
everything including you, and react immediately to any sudden movements
but not so much that he tries to hide away. He should move away, but
come right back again afterwards. The danger is when they first come in
they are spooked>.
My only other inhabitants are a Kole tang and a pair of Raccoon
<Yes, and these will be fine with your Emperor in this sized system.
A beautiful group indeed>.
Again I was saving all of that room for a Koran or Passer.
<No, you have made the right choice here for sure>
I plan to add a harem of dithers later.
I read through your FAQ's on these fish. I see a lot of folks are
dealing with HLLE, lesions, pimples, mouth tumors and ich.
<Yes, hence my earlier comment re: 'reef' systems for this
fish. Emperor Angels WILL show signs with deteriorating water quality,
first of all with lighter 'patches' and spots all over the
fish, so you should endeavour to keep your FOWLR at so-called
'reef' parameters, particularly with regards to
I wrote down all of your suggestions to combat those issues and have no
fear about providing sponge, vitamins and macro-algae
<Yes, he should have all of these. Feed him Nori as well, and not
too much meaty fare, this is too fatty>
to the tank for him if he ever makes it over there.
<It sounds like he should make it ok. Watch the Ammonia in the
Bob, if you are reading this one, I also see where you endorse the use
of Tropic Marine Center's (in the UK) carbon product for general
water quality lesions.
<<I definitely do. A very good product/quality. RMF>>
<Hmm, I know nothing about this particular product, except to say
that I would be running carbon in this system -- will place in
Bob's folder for his comment here if he has one>
I can give it back, so it's not like I'm stuck. The fish is a
kind fella, and eats so well.
I already use those vitamins you suggested with my other fish, and plan
to get iodine for him as well.
<No reason for him to 'need' this that I know of>
With so few tank mates, vitamins, iodine, TMC's carbon product,
good live rock, sponge, macro-algae, hide spots and careful
observation, please, honestly, do you think this beauty from Vanuatu
can live well here?
<Yes I do>
You said they have a dismal survival rate from this part of the world.
Does that mean they get ich/parasites more than the average fish (like
the blue hippo tang I had years ago) and could die from it?
<No, this is more because of the collection techniques in that part
of the world. It is the indo-pacific Pygoplites that have this bad rep
w/ regard to diet etc.>
Or can they live good healthy lives in the right environment and with
great care, but just a short life span of a handful of years?
<Should live 20 years+ in your system with good care>
I cannot handle seeing white spots on fish. Freaks me out. Sleepless
nights, nosebleeds, just a general sense of dread and impending
Your article also suggested they stay in QT a full 4 weeks. Your final
warning of "trust me" scared me. That would mean another 2
weeks in my QT here, for a total of 4 weeks. Will this 40 gallon stress
him out before the 2 weeks are up so much that he could be weakened by
<If you are happy that there are no parasites then I would move him
after two weeks, as long as he is feeding well, and behaving as stated
I was thinking I could use this time to boost his system up real good
with Selcon, Boyd's Vita Chem, iodine and the other vitamins you
suggested of C, E, D, and A.
<Yes -- the easiest food to add this to is Nori>
So if/when I add him to the main display he'll be able to fight off
any illnesses that may present themselves. I used filtered tap water
for 3 years, but have recently switched to RO water 2 months ago.
<Will be necessary here -- do make sure you have the added
'DI' element as well -- very cheap to add>
As such, my nitrates are fluctuating between 20-30 after weekly 60
gallon water changes.
<This is too high. Nitrates want to be below 10 consistently,
preferably even lower. You should be able to achieve this with your
system and stocking list no problem at all -- have you read here?
All of the junk from the tap water is embedded into the live rocks, and
my friend says it'll take another month or so of clean water
changes to dilute the tap water present. 3 fish in a 320 should not
produce that high of a reading, so it must be the old water still
<I would work on this with gusto -- have you considered that there
might be another 'source' such as a filter clogged w/ debris
Well, that's my long winded dilemma. Can this Emperor from Vanuatu
really stay colorful and healthy with me doing all I have learned from
your site? I respect your opinions, look forward to your
<Yes he (she?) can. I do think that this whole system should now be
geared towards providing for this very special animal. If you do this
then you WILL be rewarded in kind many times over>.
Take care, and thanks Jeff.
<No problem Jeff, and good luck to you with your Emperor.
Re: 01/02/2010 Emperor Angel success--reply to Simon
Great answers Simon, thanks so much.
<No problem Jeff>
Yes, my earlier "tanks" was indeed a typo! ;o) I do love the
Emperor now, and am not nearly as afraid to keep him
as I was a few days ago. I took your wise advice, and searched for a
possible nitrate booster on the system, and I see my filter sock in the
refugium was caked with waste.
<Yes -- a source, remove this, or clean it 2-3 times a week>
Probably a huge contributor to the steady 30-40 nitrate readings even
after 60 gallon water changes to get it down. I tossed it out
altogether, put filter floss under the drain hoses instead to make it
easier to just toss it out and add new on a weekly basis.
<At least this, but I would simply be draining direct into a
compartment that holds the skimmer if it were me>
Did the water change, nitrates went down to 20ppm. Another large one in
a few days should get it down to 10, I'm sure.
<Aim for 1 - 5 if you can>
Great idea to look for clogs. I also saw one of 2 return pumps was no
I bought a new one, cleaned out the gunk in the plumbing, and had a
nice clear flow again. It was lots of debris in there, as well. I am
turning this into a tank with reef parameters for him. I already have
200 lbs. of live rock and a handful of mushroom rocks.
<Mmmm, Mushrooms are probably not going to last long here, whatever
the type. Your Raccoons will probably eat Corallimorphs, and your
Emperor will eat Zoanthids and Leathers most likely. These are NOT the
cnidarians that I would choose to house here.
If I was you I would stick with the live rock for the minute, do some
reading ref: calcium and alkalinity, and when you are 'ready'
if you still want some coral try some Scleractinians instead, maybe
some Montipora. You are much more likely to have success here, although
this is not guaranteed as individual fishes will have different habits.
A bit of trial and error may be required. The butterflies are the real
worry, but a positive is that you will not be plagued with Aiptasia
like many others at least!>.
I will add other things the butterflies won't eat, more
<Mmmm, stay away from soft corals and Anemones. You could easily add
some Lysmata shrimp>
This Emperor behaves exactly as you have described he should. He's
alert, interested in me and my presence, gently scoots away when I feed
him, then comes right back to eat.
<That's marvelous news -- this is a very graceful fish>
Not spooked at all, very friendly for sure. I was even able to feed him
Nori pieces by hand today.
I'm working hard, and keeping the QT ammonia at zero and very close
<0.25ppm TOTAL ammonia will be ok short term (a few days) if the pH
Yes, that "DI" end result of RO water is indeed part of my
new & top off water.
Thank you for the suggestion. With his blue bottom colors, I have named
him LEVI, as in the jeans. Levi & I thank you for the honest,
educated feedback in specifics.
<No problem Jeff, you will find that your Emperor comes to recognise
'you' personally -- another characteristic of a most wonderful
I'm glad I chose to keep him. Nice to know you'd have gotten
<Yes, I do indeed own one of these myself>
I feel validated.
<Simon, who has one more point to make -- this fish will do better
if it is the 'king'. That means no Sohal or similar large
Juvenile Emperor Angelfish Health: Little Information to
Work With\Poss. Cyanide Poisoning. 8/31/2009
I have a juvi emperor angel, he is a newish addition to my tank (2
<Angels do much better in older tanks - at least six months old or
and lately he has been getting strange almost lazy like.
<Not a good sign.>
He will barley move from under a ledge in my live rock, and when he
does get does this strange twitch thing (like its almost not done on
purpose) he never did this before.
<How long have you had this fish and where was it caught?>
Also when he does actually move around after a very short period he
will come to rest on his side flat at the bottom of the tank like he
just hasn't got it in him to continue swimming.
<Also not a good sign. What are your tank's parameters\water
This has been going on for about a day or so.
Should I be worried?
<yes. Either the fish was caught using cyanide, or your water is
loaded with ammonia or nitrite. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/toxictk.htm
Also, I don't know if this means anything but he had a bad case of
"cloudy eye" about a week ago but i seemed to fix it up with
some fresh water bathing. I don't know if this is related but might
be helpful info.
<Possibly related I really need more information than what you have
provided. How big is this tank, what do your water tests show? What
else is in the tank with it? How much rock do you have? How long was
the fish quarantined? Where was the fish caught (your fish store should
Is there anything I can do?
<Do a large water change. If possible, get this fish into a
quarantine tank quickly.>
Is my fish dying? or is this normal?
<Not normal at all.>
sorry just scared.
<Read here about the emperor angels.>
emperor angel, hlth. NNS 7/26/09
hello, first of all let me tell you that I've read a lot of your
answers and they've been very helpful to me. I bought a 9 inches
emperor angel form the red sea ( I was told) three weeks ago,
<Expensive to ship such large specimens>
he was doing fine for a week and then he got little bit of cloudy eye,
which disappeared 3 days later, but some kind of white marks were left
around his eye ( like if the color disappeared) , he doesn't look
to have any problem
about them, but I don't really know what they are.
<Very likely "just" collecting, handling, and shipping
he only eats dried sea weed, even thought I've tried shrimp,
calamari, octopus and clams. also sometimes his color seems a little
bit faded. the water parameters are fine but I was waiting until he was
doing perfect to do another water change.
<I would commit to a regular period here>
what do you recommend? thank you for your time, I'm really
concerned about him.
<Time going by, maintenance, good feeding... This is a tough
species, particularly from the Red Sea... And though smaller specimens
are more adaptable, yours should settle in and repair of its own
accord. Bob Fenner>
HLLE/Emperor Angelfish 5/30/09
Recently I noticed a marking on my Emp Angel fish behind his eye.
Any idea as to what it could be?
<Rob, the pics are not real detailed, but likely, you have the
beginnings of HLLE which generally is caused by poor water
quality/environmental conditions, and/or lack of proper
nutrition. Look here.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re" HLLE/Emperor Angelfish,
referral? 6/1/09e a better idea of the environmental
conditions present. I'm still going with the onset of HLLE.>
Here are some more i <I> just took 48 hours after the
first ones. Also, the last 3-6 weeks he's been
constantly harassed by my gold barred maroon clownfish. The
angel just hangs out in one corner. Could they be stress
<Directly the cause, no. The clownfish is just adding to the
environmental stress conditions present in your tank. You didn't
mention your tank size or other inhabitants along with water
parameters which would give m
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
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