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Water param.s or disease. SW Angel discoloration cause/s
1/28/14 Angel Problem. HLLE On The Way? 3/10/08 In my 6ft tank I have a King Angel that has been with me now for around 9 months, the area around its head and gills has no colour, it's as though the top layer of skin has disappeared. The rest of the fish is ok, and it is accepting food with no problems. In my other 7ft tank I have a Blueface Angel that has been with me around 2 months, this fish has exactly the same problem regarding the colour disappearing around the head area. In both of the tanks I am keeping various other fish and there is no problem with them. I am interested to know if there is some problem with my tanks or the fish I have purchased have some disease. <Alan, sounds to me like HLLE (Head and lateral line erosion). This is mainly due to environmental conditions and nutrition. It can be reversed by maintaining pristine water quality and a good diet. Read FAQ's here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm, and here, http://wetwebmedia.com/foodsppt1.ht m> Regards <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Alan
Coral Beauty HLLE? 7/1/06 Hi, question for you. <Hello John> I currently have a mid size coral beauty in my quarantine system. I purchase him 16 days ago from a LFS. While in the QT he has developed a small patch (approx the size of a match head) on his L side near his lateral line. The area appears to be pale in nature and irregularly circular. At first I thought he may have just bumped against something in the tank but now watching it over the past 15 days. It appears to have grown ever so slightly. Also yesterday I noticed a very tiny pale patch on the R side of his head. Is this the beginning of HLLE? <Possibly.> I feed sparsely (given that he is in a QT) brine shrimp and Omega sea veggie flakes once a day each. <A poor diet such as this can certainly aid in further development of HLLE, if that is indeed what it is.> The QT is a 15 gal long w/AquaClear 200 filter and carbon pouch. Airstone w/pump, heater, small powerhead and PVC piping. 1 gal water is changed daily. If this is HLLE should I attempt to treat it before placing him in my main aquarium or place move him in after he finishes out his QT time figuring the better diet and water quality available in my larger system will fix him. <You've just answered your own question here. Better vitamin (Selcon, Vita-Chem) enriched diet and excellent water quality are the main factors in reversing HLLE. There is no medication, in my opinion, that will effectively reverse this. Do read FAQ's on this also. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm> My main system is a 65 gal w/20gal sump, live rock. Thanks for your comments, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> John Losing angelfish only - 06/07/06 Hi Bob and Crew, <O & R> Thanks again for all the help you and the crew provide. Much appreciated! I've e-mailed before and you guys and gals were very helpful. I always try to find the answers to my problems first, before I take up your time. This time I've had a little trouble so thought I would drop a line. My problem has been with keeping queen and French angels. Both juvenile and adults. I have a 135g <Not large enough...> with powder blue tang, 2 perculas, black cap, bi color blenny, and mandarin goby. Have 150lbs live rock, Dual Bak Pak skimmer, and emperor 400. Aquarium is about 1 year running. Water parameters have always been excellent. All at 0. PH 8.2. Have 30g quarantine tank in place and use it wisely. I have not had any problems with my fish except for 2 queen angels and 2 French angels. Which I've read are very hardy and disease resistant. <Generally so> None of them have died right away, seems to be a couple of months down the road. No signs of disease other than minor lymphocytes here and there. <This is telling... a large stress component> One day they start breathing heavy or labored and then die a day or so later. I've read in your book about size range for each and all of them would be what you would call acceptable range. 4-5 inches. <In this small sized system, better to start with even smaller specimens... down to 2-3 overall inches> I do have corals in my tank as well and don't know if these are possibilities. <Are as well... material coming off/from these could be malaffecting these fishes> I recently pulled my bubble tip and Sebae anemones out thinking my angels may have come into contact with them and died from that. <A possibility> Is that a possibility that even a larger angel can die from an anemone sting. <Yes> Corals in my tank currently are torch coral (which my clowns hosted after losing their bubble tip), flowerpot, branching hammer, and frogspawn. Could any of these been the cause or am I missing something. <Not able to tell from here/this> All my other fish have not shown any signs of problems to date. After the fourth or fifth queen and French I'm quite frustrated. I feed them Nori seaweed red and green, formula one, angel food containing sponge (which they didn't take to very well) and Mysis. A good variety I thought. Any advice would be much welcomed. Thank you again for taking time out of your busy schedule. Sincerely, Royce <I would look to a smaller Pacific, Indian Ocean Pomacanthid species here. Wait till you have a tropical West Atlantic biotopic effort to try one of these Caribbean angels. Bob Fenner> Emperor angel problem 2/23/06 Dear Bob and colleagues Please help I have a 100 gallon home display tank and a 200 gallon sump). There has been a sudden chain of events causing an issue with my tanks members, especially the 3 year old emperor angel. My water parameters are as follows;pH8.2 , ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20ppm ,sg 1026 and temperature 24.7 centigrade. These were taken this morning before tank lights were switched on. Other hardware includes Deltec AP850 skimmer, phosphate (ROWAphos) fluidized filter and wet/dry filter (maybe why I cant get lower nitrates!) <Likely, yes> Following an Ich outbreak on my C. Lunula, I treated the system with Myaxin solution for 5 days, but still lost him unfortunately. It has resulted in the emperor showing very distressed symptoms (rapid gill movements, loss of appetite and hiding away but no obvious bodily Ich signs). During this period I lost an Anthias with no obvious causes but the remaining tank members seem fine (comprising 2 Hawkfish, purple tang, blue tang, green Chromis and 3 convict blennies). The soft corals showed minor irritation but seem fine now. When I switched the UV sterilizer(30Watt) back on, did this result in any toxic shock chemicals? <Not likely> I have now tried a 30% water change and the addition of carbon filtration to try and improve matters but I am still most concerned about my emperor. Are there any further suggestions you might offer? Best regards Dave K from the UK <Not from the information provided. Have you read on WWM re this species? Please do so: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/pomacanthus/imperator.htm And the linked files above. Hopefully something will "pop up" here re your situation. Bob Fenner> "The soft corals showed minor irritation but seem fine now. Are there any further suggestions you might offer? Best regards Dave K from the UK" <Actually... on a moments reflection, the problem is likely the negative reaction you list re the soft corals... These are very likely poisoning your system, consequent from the Myxacin... I would add a good deal of activated carbon to your filter flow path, and execute a series of 10-20% water changes every few days to dilute their effects. BobF> Acclimation, Angel 9/12/05 Hi
<Hello> I am new to WWM but have been passively reading many many
of your articles to become better educated in the marine area. <Good
idea> I recently purchased a juvenile emperor angel and placed him
in a quarantine tank for observation before placing him in with my main
tank. I gave him a 2 minute fresh water (straight RO water at 78 F)
bath and then placed him in the quarantine tank. This is a 10 gal. tank
with a 45 degree 4" PVC elbow in it for refuge. It is again RO
water at 78 F medicated with copper,<copper should only be used when
necessary. It's adding undue stress to the fish.> and aerated
with a small stone and filtered through carbon. The first night and
next morning he (she?) looked fabulous. The fish ate a small amount of
Formula 2 and one Mysis shrimp that I offered. The fish swam around
curiously and seemed just fine. The next morning I found him at the
bottom not swimming around anymore. I decided to check the salt content
(don't get too mad here) and discovered I had messed up mixing when
I set of the tank (doh!). It was at 1.032 SG! I slowly (over 4 hours)
diluted it back down to 1.023 without replacing the copper.<Four
hours is too short a time to drop the SG that much.> He must have
found the second serving of Formula 2 as it was gone from the tank
floor by the end of the day. It has been 2 days since and the fish is
still on the bottom but now his nose is downward and he seems to be
breathing more rapidly. I am concerned I somehow injured him and fear I
will lose him. Any thoughts? <Filter the QT with a good grade carbon
or Chemi-Pure to remove the copper. I'd do at least a 30% water
change with water of the SAME salinity and 24 hours later see if there
is any improvement. If he is eating, you may want to add vitamins to
his food, something such as Selcon. James (Salty Dog)> Thanks in
advance for any help you can offer. Contrite fish-keeper, Mark Holacanthus passer losing color 9/2/05 Hello Crew and thanks for all your help in advance. <Welcome> I have a 4 1/2 inch angel for a year now and he has been in excellent condition until the last month. He is now losing color around his mouth, eyes and some small spots up on his head. The best way to describe it is the yellow color around his mouth is becoming translucent and the spots up on his head are yellow where his color was previously dark. <I used to collect this species... know what you're referring to> The areas of change don't appear to be raised or any different than the normal areas of his body and none of his tankmates are effected. Also, all the fish are eating well and acting fine - including the angel. I feed veggie flakes, Spirulina, Mysis, and marine cuisine and use Selcon as a supplement. The local fish store believes it is dietary and I have started butterfly formula and a fresh mussel 1 time per week. <Good idea> I don't see how a dietary deficiency would take 11 months to manifest and now progress in a fairly rapid manner. <Does happen... "something/s" run out> Any suggestions or requests for more information (just to add some information: water parameters are salinity 1.024, PH 7.3, ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates under 10)? Regards, Greg <Mmm, my "second category" guess here would be "water quality" as cause... Having "mud" in your filter, a refugium, a DSB, live macro-algae... would all help. Do you have another system to move this specimen to that has any of these? Could you add a live sump with them? I would. Bob Fenner> - The Emperor has no Space - Hi Guys, <Good evening, JasonC here...> I have received good advice from the crew in the past and hope maybe you can help me with my current problem. I have an Imperator Angel 6" adult in a 90 gallon tank, I know this is small for this fish, but house is too small for bigger tank, I also have a 125 gallon community tank. <This fish should really be in the 125...> My problem is that the Imperator has large faded white spots all over it's body, I treated with Copper Safe and after 4 days the spots went away, I kept the copper in the 10 days as suggested then started to pull it out with copper remover, poly filter and water changes, within 2 days the spots started to reappear and are most noticeable in the morning and less at night. I then suspected that maybe it is a vitamin deficiency so I give the fish Nori algae every day and at first it seemed to work, the spots went away, I really thought I solved the problem, but within 2 days the spots came back. My nitrates are not terrible for a fish only tank 20ppm, I don't know what to do next, any advice would be appreciated. <The white spots are typically caused by water quality issues, but can also be a general indicator of mood, as in the fish is not happy in it's current surrounds. These fish get much larger that this and are used to much more room to roam. I would look carefully into collateral damage from the copper treatment, as it typically stalls out biological filtration. Do a couple of decent-sized [25%] water changes and go from there.> Thanks Fred <Cheers, J -- > - Baked Emperor - Gentleman, <Good morning, JasonC here.> I have an Emperor Angel. He has been fat and happy since the day I bought him. Has just started to turn colors and has stopped eating and is quite lethargic. I don't know what is wrong. Water parameters are good although the temp gets to around 88 this time of year due to the heat and humidity. Any suggestions?? <Yeah, do something about that temperature, it is much too high.> tks John Cape Cod <Cheers, J -- > Blue Angel Fungal Infection? Hello there. <Buona sera. Dr. Anthony in your service> My wife and I just (6 days ago) obtained a 5" adult-colored Holacanthus bermudensis. It had been at our LFS for about a week and a half. It was sold to us as a Holacanthus ciliaris, but we have come to the conclusion that it is a true blue angelfish and not a hybrid between the two (based on rigorous research due to the price difference between the queen and the blue, which we are still debating with our LFS, but a completely different story). Anyway, within the last 2 days, it has developed white patches on its left fin and, today, the left flank. They look like baking soda or flour when it is wet and clumpy, ranging in size from salt granule to dime sized. They aren't in any particular shape, rather just blotches. This fish shares a 75 gallon tank with one 3" Odonus niger, one 3.5" Rhinecanthus aculeatus, and one 4" Coris gaimard. It is a fish only tank with 20 lbs. Live rock, a SeaClone skimmer, and 2 large Penguin 400 filters. We have had no problems (that we have witnessed) between the triggers and the angel. In fact, we have seen the Huma trigger roll on its side so the angel could clean it. We have tested everything religiously and the results are consistently just right. Is this a fungus or bacteria, or something else? <Lymphocystis is quite common with these angels. It is viral, non-contagious, non-fatal and non-curable by most measures. It may grow large enough to break off on its own and scarcely bother your Angelfish... or, it may become so irritating that you will need to do minor surgery (take fish out of tank into a clean towel wet with aquarium water (cover eyes to keep still. the fish... not you) and trim the infected fin tissue and scrape the body with a scalpel or razor (then swab with iodine) and return to tank) Not as bad as it sounds> We are in the process of moving the angel to our 20 gal quarantine (the only thing in it is enough crushed coral to barely cover the bottom). Is there any effective treatment of this disease? <above... and don't bother with the move to quarantine if it is Lymphocystis... more stress> We had added Mela-Fix (basically tea tree oil) to the 75 gal. to see if that would help without disrupting the ecosystem. It did nothing. <not for this, my friend> We are very worried about our little angel and hope anyone there might be able to help. <I seriously doubt it will be fatal. Do try referencing the disease with a good fish disease book like Handbook of Fish Diseases by Dieter Untergasser (TFH)> Thanks for your time, Chris & Rachel Koenke <my pleasure, Anthony Calfo> Majestic angel trouble <Hi! Ananda here this afternoon...> Hi I have a majestic angel which I have had for about 2 weeks. Until today he seemed fine. He swam around a lot and ate good. But, now he's hiding and refuses to eat he barely moves. His eyes are a little cloudy. The only other problem the tank has had was a rusty angel that died a couple of days ago. The water quality as of last night was ammonia .25 ph 8.2 nitrate .10 nitrite 0. <That ammonia is a problem, and probably why the fish's eyes are cloudy.> What do you suggest? <Water changes, *pronto*... Hopefully you keep some pre-mixed stuff ready to go for emergencies like this. If you don't have any ready, let new stuff mix for about 4 hours (with vigorous circulation via powerhead). And I'd also suggest some Amquel+ (got to have the plus since it's a marine tank!) in the interim. --Ananda> Perilous Pomacanthus Angel - 8/17/03 Good afternoon, Mr.
Fenner, hope all is well with you. <Anthony Calfo in his stead, with
regards in kind> I have a bit of an issue with a 7 1/2" Emperor
angel. He/she has been doing very well in an established seven foot
200g predator tank for some time. <grumble> A bit frisky, as the
fish immediately dominated the tank upon arrival. Tank mates are a
12" Panther grouper, and a 10" gold stripe puffer.
<grumble grumble> Yes sir, I do realize that I am pushing tank
capacity. <that's one way to put it... 2.5 feet of fishes in a
2' wide aquarium. Doh! The reduced activity of the grouper and
puffer (perhaps) works in your favor. Still... it would be nice to see
more tank or less fish> However, I noticed today that the
right gill plate has ceased to move. <a conspicuous sign of gill
parasites, indeed> Subsequently, the left gill plate is functioning
at twice the normal rate. There have been no new arrivals, and no
previous disease issues. <understood... but the fishes did not
arrive sterile (as in pathogen free). They, like us, carry potentially
pathogenic organisms that are suppressed for life, only to be expressed
under weakened immunity or duress (like giving up hope for a larger
aquarium <G>. Sorry... couldn't resist)> Water quality is
spot-on, appetite is voracious, and color is vivid. I am inclined to
think the fish is very healthy, no HLLE and nice streamers for the
species. <all very good to hear> No one else displaying any
erratic behavior, other than darting for cover when the angel cruises
the length of the aquarium! The only change
made was a large water change four days ago with aged water
from the same source, of the same salinity, pH, and temp. Water change
was approximately 40g, as I needed aged water for a 37g quarantine tank
that I just set up. <No worries... and not a large water change
either. Good heavens, for a tank of predatory fishes of this size, I
should hope that you have been doing 20% water changes like this twice
monthly. If not, the accumulated untestables over time are surely a
burden on water quality and a stress to the fish. The angel
(unsurprisingly) may just be the first one to express suffrage> I
first suspected gill flukes, but is that possible since
there are no new arrivals, and the water change was with r/o
home-brew? <correct my friend... simply carried in small
numbers and never expressed. Good immunity> I have seen
unexplainable phenomena occur while employed at John Tullock's now
defunct Aquatic Specialists, but this is a new one for me. I must say
that I feel as though I can trust your opinion, as I have learned more
from reading three pages of your writing than I could have learned in
three years of actual study. Any help you could offer would be greatly
appreciated, not only by myself, but the specimen in question, too.
Devoted, yet stumped, Samantha Madison <no worries, my dear. But do
be prepared with a bare-bottomed QT tank and some formalin. Easy on the
copper and/or malachite (any metals or organic dyes) in fact as you
likely know - angels can be sensitive. FW dips and formalin are your
likely cure in QT. Go for the full 4 weeks isolation. Bare minimum
would be two weeks after the last expression of a symptom. Medication
in the display is not recommended or likely to be successful. Best of
luck. Anthony> Queen angel not eating Thought I would let you know what was causing the lack of appetite behavior, apparently my AC was slowly on the outs, when it quit working, I checked the water temp, 87F! <Doh!> Needless to say after adding ice to bring the tank back below 80, these fish started pigging out again! Thanks for your help <Yowsa.... hopefully the drop in temperature was gradual (2-3 days?). A sudden drop in temp can be worse than the drop of the high temps. Please be very alert for an Ich outbreak in the next week and be prepared with a QT tank if necessary (do not medicate in the main display). Best regards, Anthony> Sick Queen Angel? Hello how are you today ? <Fine, thank you! Scott F. here today> Sorry to bother you again! <Never a bother, my friend!> But my queen Angel as stopped eating two days ago! (can he stay a lot of time without eating??) and seems to have cloudy eye and also the eye membrane seems to be damage going out a little bit still but less than before ,also a notice that his eyes are a little bit red ,and he also had like blood behind the lateral fins, but it seems that it is healing now (white covering it) also have white spots on the fins!!! but doesn't look like Ich, he always hiding, but he is breathing normal !!! My nitrate was a little bit high, but I did a water change of about 30% of the tank (125 gallons) and it is now ok. <Good decisive move!> All the other fish are fine. I wouldn't want this to spread to the other fish. Maybe environmental disease? <Hard to say from here, but it may be a (secondary) bacterial infection of some sort. It may have been brought on by lapses in water quality, an injury, or some other trauma.> Should I move him out of the tank and use medication? If yes what should I use that is easy to get in almost all fish stores? I don't want to loose it. Thank you in advance and also HAPPY NEW YEAR! And again, thank you for your help! Your web site is helping me a lot and I am sure a lot of aquarists, also! Continue the great work!!!! <I think it is time to move the fish to another tank for observation and treatment. I'd probably try a broad spectrum antibiotic, such as Maracyn Two in the treatment tank. Please note that antibiotics can interrupt nitrification in aquariums, so be sure to supply mechanical and chemical filtration in the treatment tank. Do keep reading on the wetwebmedia.com site to see if you find descriptions of any disorders that are similar to the one that your fish is experiencing. Good luck! Regards, Scott F> My angel fish is looking dull! Dear Bob <David Dowless standing in this afternoon> I have an Imperator angel I have had for about 5 years. He is housed in a 100gal. aquarium. Filtered by 3 Eheim canister filters a 15 watt UV. He has a few other tank mates such as a twin spot wrasse, <Do you mean the Coris wrasse? This baby gets to be more than 21" long!> 6 fire fish, long nose hawk, Flame angel, Flag fin, 3 butterflies. In, addition I also have a protein skimmer. <Is it producing a full cup of skimmate daily?> Water parameters are close to 0 ammonia <.1ppm NO2, N03 between20 to 60. <Ammonia and nitrite need to be zero all of the time.> Salinity 1.020, temp 77. This was not always the case, however , I thinned out the population some time ago. I did this because I had difficulty keeping the water parameters within the range I proffered. I had blue tangs and a Koran angel that both had bad HLLE. The Imperator I believe was also developing HLLE so I became extra faithful doing water changes and adding broccoli and spinach to the diet. This seemed to arrest any HLLE in the Imperator however his color has dulled. I should mention that in every other way he is fine. <Poor water quality, poor diet, and overcrowding will do this..> I occasionally put carbon in my canister filter some say this contributes to HLLE also, I do not do anything to guard against stray voltage. <HLLE is an environmental disease: inappropriate diet and poor water quality due to overcrowding. Your tank needs to be thinned out even more. I don't know which ones to get rid of because I don't know their sizes or the specific species. Consider getting a copy of Scott Michael's Marine Fishes. It is an excellent pocket guide that would have helped you avoid overcrowding. You can get it online for less than $25> My fishes diet is extremely varied including frozen as well as dry foods and fresh veggies. <Marine algae growing in the tank would also help> I would welcome any advice you may have. Thank you, Charles Rayburn <You're welcome, Charles. You can research even more on this and many other topics at Wetwebmedia.com...David Dowless> Question: I wanted to e-mail you to let you know that I have
just finished your book "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist"
and I thought it was fantastic . The way that you use scientific terms
and mix it with layman's terms gives someone relatively new to the
hobby a feel for what we are really trying to accomplish here . We are
not just keeping a "fish tank" we are keeping small
eco-systems in are homes . The scientific names reminds you of that
fact. Thank you! Question: I am having one heck of a time keeping large angels
alive. I have a 55gal tank with 2 power heads atop an under-gravel
filter. I have had my water tested many times and every time it has
came back excellent for everything. All my other fish are doing
perfect, and thriving. I have had the same tank and general set-up for
the last 5 years and never had a problem until trying my hand at large
angels (Rock Beauty, French).
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