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FAQs About Soft/Shell Rot, Conditions In Turtles 16

Related Articles: Shell Rot in Turtles, Treating Common Illnesses of the Red Ear Slider (& other Emydid Turtles) by Darrel Barton, The Care and Keeping of the Red Eared Slider, Trachemys scripta elegans  by Darrel Barton, Red Ear Sliders, Turtles, AmphibiansRed Eared Slider Care

Related FAQs:  Shell Rot 2, Shell Rot 3, Shell Rot 4, Shell Conditions 5 Shell Conditions 6, Shell Conditions 7, Shell Conditions 8, Shell Conditions 9, Shell Conditions 11,  Shell Conditions 12, Shell Conditions 13, Shell Conditions 14, Shell Conditions 15, Shell Conditions 17, & Turtles, Turtles 2, Turtle Identification, Turtle Behavior, Turtle Compatibility, Turtle Selection, Turtle Systems, Turtle Feeding, Turtle Disease, Turtle Disease 2, Turtle Disease 3, Turtle Reproduction, AmphibiansOther Reptiles

Young male RES scute shed before it was ready     1/3/14
<Hiya - Darrel here>
I have an Red Eared Slider that has a scute that came off before it was ready, I was doing his daily feeding and he ate used the rest room and moved around just fine, reading elsewhere and on your site I have come to the conclusion of dry docking him
<Right!!  Thanks for reading first & asking second!>
I only used triple antibacterial as I did not have hydrogen peroxide and betadine as this happened later in the night,
<Good thinking>
When the scute came off underneath it was a filmy white, sort of gummy, but the shell underneath wasn't soft but not hard hard like normal, the scute wasn't super thin but bendable and fairly see through, I can see his shell pattern on the part that is exposed now
<What you're seeing is the bone underneath the scute>
He bled a little, I think just in the part that is exposed, a herp vet is possible but I really momentarily have very strict finances unless he is in danger from this
<Not yet, he's not in danger>
He has been dry docked with only a little water not above his shell for a little while.
How long should he be kept dry docked? I've seen everything from a few days to a
few weeks, I want him to be able to eat and get the lighting he needs, but not sure how to accomplish it as I'm not sure how to hold the lighting, right now he is in his feeding tub just to keep him dry, its about 80 degrees in the room he is in, does he need warmer and how would I do that?
<The description for Dry-Docking tells you to move his UV lamp if you can, but it's not critical.  What is important is that you keep him DRY until this area heals>
His lamps get really hot and I worry about them on anything other than his wire mesh tank top and his tub doesn't have high enough sides to put it on there, he would be too close to them.
<Then don't worry about it.   I share your concern that he can get too hot and we don't want that.>
 I'm very worried as I don't want anything to happen to him, how would I treat this? I'm including a picture, the picture makes it look a little redder than it is, it did bleed but I don't think too much. It's in the top. Half where the scute is gone
<For whatever reason, the scute has died and fallen off.  It won't grow back, but what will happen instead is this area will grow over with scar tissue.  It really isn't that big a deal as long as you treat it like any other wound, which you seem to be doing just fine.  Keep him warm and DRY except for a daily, shallow bath so he can drink, poop and eat.  Even the scute can get wet.  Getting it wet won't hurt it - just KEEPING it wet would hurt it.>
<Give him 6 weeks in dry dock until the wound looks healed and feels hard, then he's good to go back.>
<Because he's had this damage, you should be a bit extra careful to keep his water clean and sanitary.  This are will tend to be a BIT more sensitive to infection.  I said just a BIT -- so don't get paranoid… just be sure to keep his water as clean as we know we should anyway>
<As long as the area heals over, no need for a trip to the vet>

Hi I want to know if this is shell rot? – 09/10/13
Please help I came home last night and noticed its white where a scute should be Idk if it's a crack or rot, she's acting normal and when I touch the white part it's hard
<The last is a good sign... need to know re water quality (set up, maintenance) and nutrition. That the area is not putrescent (by your omission) points to damage, calcification instead of rot per se... Let's have you read re starting here:
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Hi I want to know if this is shell rot?     9/11/13
when I picked her up she had a couple of loose scutes and I uncovered more white shell, is this fixable? The last picture is how I have the tank right now normally on top I have the lamp. She is about 5 years old and she lives with another red ear he's about 8 yrs but he doesn't have this problem
<Hiya Annie.>
<The problem shown in your4 pictures could have been caused by a fungus (which we often call "shell rot") but from the looks of the pictures, you are seeing the hard boney plate UNDER the scute which, for whatever reason, died and fell off.>
<The key here is that the pinkish white area is hard… nothing scrapes off when you rub at it with a toothpick… and it has no odor.  If you meet all three criteria then it's not in itself a fungus, it's the bone underneath the scute.   If that's the case then no, the scute won't grow back and SHE will have these scars permanently.  The good news is that she'll recover and endure just fine and male turtles thing scars are hot looking!>
<Pay particular attention to water quality -- make sure she has clean water and a UV-B bulb to bask under … and chances are she'll be just fine>

re: Hi I want to know if this is shell rot? Following directions; limit on WWM for file space, incoming      9/12/13
Hi when I was looking at her I noticed those white pieces were loose so I took them off  nothing scrapes off, should I apply hydrogen peroxide or iodine? I noticed that's what other people do with similar problems, when you mean they're gonna scar do you mean it's gonna stay white?
... re-size and re-send your msg. and image file... hundreds of Kbytes, not Meg.s B
re: Hi I want to know if this is shell rot?

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re: Hi I want to know if this is shell rot?     9/13/13

.... READ here re file size: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
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re: Hi I want to know if this is shell rot?    9/18/13
Sorry about that, ok so I was wondering if I should be applying anything on it, those little tile looking things were loose and they came right off, and when you mean its gonna scar what color does it look like after scarring, ive just been lightly brushing off her back with a children's size tooth brush I did notice a very tiny red dot barely a needle size
<the red dot is a tiny capillary that is open, so it would be best if you don't scrub the bare bone.  A cotton swab with Hydrogen peroxide is great - but we want what's there to heal over.   Keep her warm and dry except for her daily bath & feeding (read here about dry-docking http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/treating%20RES%20Dis%20DarrelB.htm)  and let's see how she's doing in a month. -- Darrel>

My Red Ear Slider; Am I worrying too much?       8/16/13
Hi, I'm Keyonna
<Hiya - I'm Darrel>
I've had my Red Ear Slider, Rye, for about a year and a half. He was very sweet when we got him, but now he's grumpy and mean like an old man.
<So am I. Although in my case I have a pretty good excuse - I *AM* a grumpy old man!>
The reason I'm writing to you is that, even though I've searched your site and others, I'm only finding general answers to my questions and those answers just won't do anymore. So, let me start from the beginning:
<OK - I'm ready!>
When we first got Rye, he was perfectly healthy. My mom had owned turtles before (4 of them, according to her) so I was counting on her "expertise".
Well, there wasn't any. It really didn't help that Rye was an impulse buy. So, on top of not knowing what we were doing, we weren't prepared for the responsibility of a turtle. We didn't get him a filter, a basking light, or even a basking dock. He had a rock and some water. So, needless to say, within the first 3 months of having him, his eyes swelled shut. And, what's worse, I didn't notice until a little over a month had passed. So, we're already off to a bad start. Fortunately, we did extensive research and found that Rye had all the signs of being calcium, vitamin A, and vitamin D deficient. And also fortunately, we found an at home solution that wouldn't harm Rye, even if it didn't help him. Daily, we gave him a drop of cod liver oil on each eye and a drop of vitamin A oil in his mouth and we put him in a small square bowl that had previously belonged to one of my most beloved pets, my beta fish, Rico (he's in a better place now). I know this is long, but please, bear with me. Rye (still unable to see) now had a basking lamp and we fed him mainly oranges; not because we didn't know what his diet should be, but because that was the only thing he would eat. He had enough water in there so that he didn't overheat and one day BOOM! He opens his eyes! (In real time, it was about a week and a half).
<Great to hear>
So, fast forward and I start to notice a few things: Rye's shell is curving upwards around the edges and the scutes (is that a word?<yep>) sections of his shell are a bit . . . lumpy. Again, I researched and found that the curving of the shell could be Metabolic Bone Disease (is that a correct diagnosis?) and that it often begins early on if they don't have a basking
lamp which, at one time, Rye did not. I read that the disease could be stopped if I got him a UVB lamp, which I need to buy. He has a heat lamp. I also read that the lumpiness of Rye's scutes is what's known as pyramiding.
It's not bad . . . well, I guess any kind of pyramiding is bad. But, I can't reverse it, so I have to work with it.
<I'll get into that a bit later.  Please continue>
Another thing is, when I pick him up, he is not at all sociable. If I try to tickle the back end of his shell, he snaps at me -- and he's caught me twice already. I've checked his shell over and there are no soft spots, no white spots, no sort of indication that there might be a fungal or bacterial infection. Is it at all possible that Rye was simply traumatized by his first sickness?
<Probably a more simple explanation>
About every 2 weeks, I go over Rye's shell with a soft tooth brush and some water. Is there a special solution I'm supposed to be using? Do I need to do this more frequently? Also, if Rye's shell curving p around the edges is MBD,  after I've gotten him a UVB, how will I be able to tell if MBD is no longer affecting him? I've recently introduced live protein (minnows) and
he loved it. He snubs the leafy greens, though; I've tried everything from Anacharis to duckweed to romaine lettuce. I'm at a loss. I read somewhere that younger RESs are more carnivorous than the older ones, but this is just ridiculous! Is there any way to get him to eat his greens? I put a Marimo moss ball in his tank, too. I read that it helps keep algae away,
but it seems to have given his water a green tint . . . . Will that go away?  I can't tell if I'm worrying too much or not.
<No - you're worrying exactly the right amount>
Sigh. I love my turtle, but he worries me more than my dogs and rabbit does. Anyways, thanks so much for reading this! It would be excellent if you'd reply, though!
<First, you have experienced first hand what it's like to be unprepared and to make an impulse purchase of a live animal.  The problem is that RYE has also suffered from the pitfalls of an impulse purchase.  Still, all things considered, most people who make impulse purchases don't notice their errors until it's too late, so really - congratulations on seeing the error of your ways before Rye became terminal!>
<Now let's start at the beginning.   Rye's behavior is not that unusual for an adult male, which is what you have.  He may have been traumatized by all the past treatments but what's more likely is that as a little guy he was intimidated by his surroundings so remained quiet.  It's likely that now that he feels grown up and not afraid, he's asserting himself.  Make sure that, when you handle him, you move him slowly, don't turn him sideways or upside down and that you keep your fingers away from his head.  If you interact with him slowly and calmly, he may settle down and do the same to you>
<Now the shell.  The conditions of the shell don't appear to be primary MBD as much a signs of an overly fed turtle.   It's normal that the edges of the shell curl a bit as they grow, but the curling and the pyramiding of the shell can be seen in turtles with bad nutrition and also TOO MUCH nutrition.   Surprisingly I see this all the time.  People who feed their turtles and tortoises a PERFECT diet - but simply feed them too much and too often - will see the pyramiding of the scutes almost as if the shell is growing faster than the rest of the animal so the shell grows inward and upward.   The solution is of course, proper nutrition.  For a Red Eared Slider or any water turtle it's either Repto-Min food sticks or Koi Pellets, which is the same as the Repto-min only much cheaper, but a COMPLETELY balanced food source.  I raise hatchling sliders that grow into full sized breeders on Kay-Tee brand Koi Pellets with an occasional (once or twice a month) earthworm as a treat.  Fish, amazingly, are not part of Rye's diet in the wild and aren't all that good for him -- except that the energy he expends trying to catch them is good for him.>
<Buy a small bag of Koi pellets, but don't feed Rye for 4 days.  He'll be good and hungry by then.  Float a very few pellets in front of him and give him the opportunity to feed.  If he does, great - if not, scoop out the pellets, skip a day and try again.  Trust me, it may be a test of wills to see which one of you will caved-in first, but he WILL eat the pellets eventually>
<For his treat, you can also try small pieces of beef or chicken liver. 
When I say small I mean no bigger than your pinky finger nail.   Place Rye in a shallow bowl of water (not over his head) give him a few minutes to settle down and stop trying to climb out, then drop the liver in.   If he's hungry he'll eat it quickly and you can give him a second small piece. 
It's a great source of minerals and vitamins, too.)>
<Rye does need a UV-B lamp.  Our friends at Zoo-Med make bulbs that are a combination of UV-b and heat lamps that fit in a conventional reflector bulb holder>
<Here is a link to all the stuff you need to know:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/RESCareBarton.htm now, if you read, understand and follow the guidelines in that article, you may never need THIS article, but scan it anyway
<Now, regarding the pictures, Rye is a handsome looking guy!>

Re: please help this sick turtles Sir   7/17/13
Hello Sir,
<Hiya - Darrel here>
Many many thanks for your precious advices and treatment directions. The Indian flapshell turtle shell above turned back to new shell and now only the bottom side rashes remains and those rashes are also fading and getting disappeared day by day.
<That's what we're here for!  Well, that and for the free food!>
I need another help please tell me what to do?
I have got a tank at my roof which is 15 feet long and 3 feet wide and is 15 centimeters deep, ( I know its less but for now I have no other option ), the tank have a big 3feet x 3 feet area to hide under for turtles. It have basking area too an area outside the tank where the turtles can get out and sit. The whole tank is exposed to sunlight for 4, 5 hours in a daytime depending on sun's direction.
<Yes, the water is a bit shallow but for now my first thought is are your sure that they turtles can't escape?>
1. in summer the temperature goes as high as 45 degrees Celsius (113f) in daytime and in night it goes to 30 Celsius (86f) low then also I have to keep the turtle at roof in same tank?
<The problem, which you already suspect, is that sunlight heats shallow water faster than deeper water, so sunlight will heat that water quickly and with evening temps only to 30, the water will never really cool.  
POSSIBLY you can help this by covering a good portion of the tank (at least 50%, maybe 75% with something opaque - so the water that does not see sunlight will not absorb the heat.  This doesn't solve the problem but if the sunlight is only 4 or 5 hours  it may help>
2. in winter the temperature goes low up to 10 degrees Celsius (50f) in Night and in day it goes up to 32 degrees Celsius (89f) then also I have to keep the turtle at roof in same tank? (the tank at roof will get sunlight even in winter season)
<This is not so much of a problem.   The daytime temperatures will allow the shallow water to heat up and 10c (50f) is cold, but for an overnight that reheats to 10 this is not an issue.  Make sure they can bask during the day -- and watch their feedings.  As soon as the overnight temps drop below 16 degrees reduce their feedings and when it becomes 10 - discontinue completely until the weather warms.   Non-digested food in their gut is the only problem I'd worry about>
Many thanks

Shell Rot?    6/15/13
Hi crew,
<Hiya - Darrel here>
My 7 1/2 year old red eared slider turtle, Speed, who has recently developed this white mark on his shell. I have attached a picture of it.
<That tiny little white spot?>
The day after I took this photo his shell appeared to be in rough shape, with it peeling in various layers. (I have also attached a photo of this but when his shell is dry) So I am wondering is this shell rot?
<Nope - I don't think so>
 I have been dry-docking him for two days now and each day treated him with betadine (povidone-iodine) and even after just treating him twice I am seeing improvement. So, am I treating shell rot? If so, what other measures should I take to help him?
<Emma - the description you give is almost the natural shedding of the scutes as new ones grow underneath.   That natural, almost "scratched" look is not all that uncommon.>
<The deciding factor here is this:  Shell Rot isn’t a disease, it's the RESULT of a fungal infection.  If it is fungus it will be soft and you'll be able to scrape a small layer of it off the shell and it will smell bad and foul.   If the pieces coming off are hard (like thin layers of fingernail) then they are normal and nothing to worry about>
Thank you so much!
From, Emma


Spot on my Res     5/7/13
Hi guys!
<Hiya Lauryn!!  Darrel here>
I just recently purchased a Red Eared Slider who is about an inch and a half in length. I've noticed his shell is a little soft so he is definitely gonna get more sunlight from now on!!
<UV-B lighting is required>
His tank is a 40 gallon with a filter and a heat lamp and dock.
<Read here, Lauryn.  It's all you need to know about giving little Nirkus a good home:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/RESCareBarton.htm >
Though I noticed a strange dot on him. Can you tell me what this is?
<Yep - that little numb is what's left of his umbilicus -- that is the dried remains of what was once an egg sac that hung underneath and fed him all the time he was in the egg.  If will dry up and either fall of or wear off as he gets older.  No worries>
Thank you so very much!

shell concerns, general care... no searching, reading on WWM... too large image files...   4/8/13
hello there,
<Hi Michelle; Sue here with you.>
I just got this turtle and I wanted to know if his shell is in proper condition.  How can I make his shell better?  What are the green spots? 
<It looks like algae from here.  With indoor turtles, this can happen when food/waste/organic material accumulates in the water. You can try taking a soft toothbrush, gently rub it over the shell, and see if it comes off.>
What are the white shots? 
<Shell discolorations like this can be the result of a number of things:  bacterial or fungal infection, shell rot, scarring from previous shell issues, or something as simple as mineral deposits from water.>
Does he look healthy and how can I bring him back to health? 
<It’s hard to say from just a photo alone.  Is his shell soft or hard? Is there any odor to it?  Given what you’re saying below about the kind of conditions he lived in before you got him, I’d suggest taking him to a vet who can physically examine it (see more about this at the end of my note).>
<In terms of evaluating his overall health besides just his physical appearance you also want to consider how he’s behaving, i.e. – Does he have a good appetite? Is he alert and active, or lethargic and just sitting in the water?  Does he get out of the water and bask for several hours a day? These are also very telling indicators for how he’s feeling.>
He is an adult male red eared slider.  The previous owners were not caring for him properly.  He was in a holding tank, no lights, no basking area, no heater.  Now that I have him, I got a 60 gallon tank, the proper lighting, heating, etc. 
<That was great of you to do that for him; thanks for taking him under your wing!  It sounds like you’ve done a lot of research in finding out about his needs. It all sounds good so far. One question on the lighting, though, what do you mean by proper lighting?  Do you have both a UVB light and heat light? Both are important and necessary.>
<Also you didn’t mention water and basking temperatures; whether you have a filter (or if so how strong it is); what kind of water changes you’re doing; what/how much/how often you’re feeding him, etc. These are also very important aspects of care.>
He seems very happy but I just wanted to know the condition of his shell and how I can improve it.
<Well first, I’ll give you a link to our care guide just to make sure you have all the basics (such as some of the ones I mentioned above) covered:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/RESCareBarton.htm >
<The next thing because of his history, I’d also recommend you take him to the vet for a check-up, preferably one who has some experience with turtles. There’s no substitute for a 1st hand physical examination; in particular a stool test and basic blood test to rule out infection. You may also want to ask if they can take a sample of some of the material on his shell and look at it under a microscope to see if there’s any sort of surface bacterial infection going on. If it turns out there is, the vet can prescribe a topical antibiotic such as Silvadene cream.>
<Lastly, because of his shell appearance and little to no basking/UVB/heat lamp exposure up to this point, I’d dry dock him for at least a couple of weeks. If he does have some sort of shell fungus, the warm dry environment (with UVB) will help clear it up. And even if he doesn’t, dry docking will give his immune system a little boost.  This link has instructions for how to do that (see under “Isolation and Dry Dock”). Just make sure to give him access to water for a short time each day to drink, poop, etc. –
Thank you, Michelle
<You’re welcome; good luck with him!  If you take him to the vet, let us know how it goes; and if you still have any questions after reading through all this, feel free to write us back! ~ Sue >

Re: shell concerns, general care     4/12/13
Hi there, thank you for your reply. 
<You’re welcome!>
Just to answer your questions.  He is a 30 year old male red eared slider.  His shell is hard and the white spots are hard as well.  There is no odor.
<More than likely then it’s either mineral deposits that have built up from water or scarring from past problems. I’d keep an eye on it though and if you think it’s getting worse, it might be worth a trip to the vet to see if they can examine some of the material under a microscope just to rule out any sort of bacterial infection.>
The green on his shell did come off when I brushed him with a tooth brush, thank you. 
<Glad to hear that helped.>
I do have a heat light and he does bask all day.  I turn the light on in the morning and turn it off at night.  The second I turn on the light he basks all day for about 12 hours.  When I turn off the light, he goes back in the water under the UVB light. 
<The UVB light should also be over his basking area along with heat lamp. I wouldn’t keep it over the water because that will encourage algae growth.>
I feed him every night and he gets the turtle pellets because that is what the previous owner always fed him. 
<Would cut this feeding back to only 2-3 times a week. Overfeeding is the most common mistake people make and it can contribute to shell deformities.  From looking at the photos of him there appeared to me to be a little bit of shell pyramiding.>
<Also when you do feed him pellets, feed him only as much as he can eat in 5 minutes or so, no more.>
I have also been giving him Kale and Dandelion leaves.  He has been eating the leaves and seems to really like it. 
<That’s good, and dandelion greens in particular are very nutritious. You can give him unlimited quantities of dandelion greens but I’d go a little more moderate on the kale; just once in a while.>
Question: do I leave the UVB light on all night since this is the only time he goes in the water? 
<No, as above, you want the UVB (and heat lamp) both directly over him on his basking area.  Then turn both off at night.>
Also, his behaviour,....he has a great appetite, he eats every night,
<If you can, better to feed him in the morning. The basking under the lights is what helps him properly digest the food.>
I am slowly trying to change his diet to real healthy food like kale, lettuce, dandelion, crickets etc. but I don't want him to go into shock with all the different changes recently. 
<Skip the crickets altogether and replace with 1-2 earthworms every few weeks. Much better for him.  Feed the kale and dandelion greens as above. For lettuce, stay away from iceberg lettuce (no nutrient value at all).  Red leaf lettuce, curly green leaf lettuce and leafy greens are better.>
Also, since he has been basking for 12 to 13 hours a day his shell has been peeling and the new shell underneath has no white spots or in some places the white shots are much smaller. 
<That’s great. When they shed, healthy new shell growth underneath is what you want to see.>
Also, he is not lethargic, he is alert and active in the water at night.
<All very good signs!>
Also regarding the water temperatures I have the water heater set at 78 but I'm not sure if that is too hot because for 30 years he has had no heater at all and I don't want him to go into shock. 
<No, actually you don’t want a water heater at all. Because turtles are dependent on their environment to regulate their body temperature, you want to give them the choice between cool (68-70 - room temperature is fine) water, and warm dry land. Also, warmer water also encourages algae growth.>
I do have a filter and it is the Tetra filter and it seems to be doing a great job.  I also have been taking all the water out once a week and cleaning his tank and refilling it with new water. 
<Sounds good. You may also want to consider feeding him outside of his tank in a plastic storage bin if you have one. Just put a couple of inches of water in it. Until he gets used to it, it may take him a few minutes to calm down after you put him in it so wait until he does calm down before feeding him. Then just let him eat for about 5 minutes, maybe give him a few more minutes to see if he poops, then put him back in the tank. That will help his water stay cleaner throughout the week. And if you do see any waste during the week, make sure to scoop it out as you don’t want it decomposing in the water, even with a filter.>
He has a mineral rock in the water as well. Thank you for taking the time to read this. Your advice has been helpful.
<Glad to hear that!  From everything you’ve said, it sounds like you’re doing a great job and he appears to be doing better as well. Just make the few tweaks above that I mentioned and that should help! ~ Sue >
Re: shell concerns, general care     4/12/13

Hi There,
<Hi again!>
I just wanted to send you pictures of the difference in the turtles shell.  The first picture is how the turtle’s shell looks now, exactly 9 days after I took him under my care.  All the algae is now gone.  I used a toothbrush and gently cleaned most of it off.  Also the white spots on his shell are getting smaller and in some places that he has shed the white spots are gone completely.  The second picture is a picture of his shell the day I got him.  It looks like the basking all day and the UVB light are improving his overall appearance.  What do you think?
<His shell does seem to be looking much better, Michelle!  You’re being a good turtle mom! And I’ll bet he’s really appreciating finally getting to be his “turtle self” and basking after all these years!!  And yes, for certain the heat and UVB is the best thing for his shell. Just make sure they’re placed as I mentioned in my last note, both directly over his basking area.>
<And as I said, just keep an eye on his shell and if you have any concerns, take him to a vet and ask if they can examine some of the material under a microscope to rule out any sort of bacterial infection.  I hope he continues to improve for you! Any other concerns though, feel free to write us.  ~ Sue>

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