Angler Eats Goby? 4/1/08
Hello Crew, how is everyone?
<Doing well, thank you.>
I bought an Angler fish, a Spotted Grouper, and a large Mandarin goby almost a week ago to put in my 125 gallon tank. There are also 3 damsels, and a Coral Banded shrimp in the tank.
<Not for long.>
I know that Anglers will eat many things that I have in the tank, but the Mandarin was about as big as they get. As long as the Angler, and fairly big around. The last time I saw the Goby was the first day, in the same corner as the Angler, and the Angler sat in the same spot for the first four days. Do you think he ate the Goby?
<The Angler very well may have eaten him, regardless of size. Anglers can swallow fish nearly the same size as themselves. Mandarins are rumored to be somewhat non appetizing to predators, but do get eaten. They can also hide in rockwork and can go days without being seen in a tank the size of yours.>
Thanks for your time.
Amanda
<Welcome, I have included a link for more information on your Angler below, Scott V.>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anglercompfaqs.htm

Ambon Scorpionfish... Angler comp.    1/3/08
Morning crew! Just a quick question. Do you think that a 2 1/2" Antennarius pictus (Painted Angler) would eat or attempt to eat a 2" Pteroidichthys amboinensis (Ambon Scorpionfish)?
<Mmm, yes... have had Antennariids grab hold of my finger/s... think food/motion of such is almost or really an autonomic reaction... Like me and pizza>
Also in the tank are a 4" Gold Stripe Maroon Clown and 3" one-eyed Dendrochirus brachypterus (Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish). I wanted to get another opinion before trying to add a fish smaller than the angler. The only reason I believe the angler would not eat the scorpion is because of just that, it's a Scorpionfish. All fish including the Scorpionfish are eating frozen foods if that changes anything. Thank you for the wonderful site! Brandon
<I'd get the Ambon up to a bit more size... like at least the same length... before introducing these together. Bob Fenner>

Frogfish tank, Harlequin comp. mostly   6/20/07
Dear Wet Web Media
<Part of it>
After following your advice in regards to upgrading a frogfish tank, I have selected some candidates, however i have a question about one. I would like to stock a 450 litre tank with a Calloplesiops altivelis, my Antennarius hispidus and the other fish i would like to stock is Lienardella fasciata the Harlequin Tusk. I intend to have a stack of live rock on the left hand side of the tank with coral such as Sinularia, Ricordea, Goniopora,
<... needs to be "on the bottom", and this genus is not easily kept... all polyps need to be fed... I'd be reading re>
xenia and have the right hand side just sand with a open brain and Fungia plate corals on the substrate. My question is would the tusk given this large amount of space still knock over the corals stacked on the other side of the tank.
<Mmm, not likely if these were placed securely>
I have read many contradicting articles on reef suitability in regards to knocking things but as my tank would be fairly open would this be such an issue.
<Mmm, no... but will need more room in time>
The other question is that i feed my frogfish sprats or silversides with an acrylic feeding pole, Is the Harlequin likely to steel the fish on the pole before i can feed the frogfish, again reading many confusing articles describing the harlequin as shy compared to most of the wrasses and selective in feeding ranging to greedy.
<This is a possibility... but likely of small concern... you can/should feed the Tusk first...>
Best Regards and thanks fo the help Ben
<And to you, Bob Fenner>

Frogfish expansion plan, comp. mostly    6/16/07
Dear Wet Web Media
<Crazed Sculptor...>
I set up a 120tr tank a while ago for an Antennarius hispidus and after keeping him successfully for a couple of months now I would like to add him into a 300 ltr tank. My main question is could i mix him with either other frogfish in this size of tank and also are they compatible with Calloplesiops altivelis the Marine Betta.
<Mmm, one chief concern will be finding the current Frogfish, getting food to it in the larger system... And Frogfishes will assuredly inhale one or t'other depending on size if hungry at all... including the Plesiopsid if it's small enough to fit in their mouth/s... The short answer is that I would not >
I would like to create a tank of specialized feeders with the only inverts being hermits and Turbos and my corals, another option i was looking at is the snowflake eel. Do you have any other suggestions that might be compatible with the slow eating habits of the fish i am interested in.
<Mmm, many... but this is really all posted/archived on WWM... Please learn to/use the indices, search tool there. Bob Fenner>

Commerson Frogfish Tankmates  3/3/07
<Hi, Pufferpunk here>
I am considering setting up a system for a Commerson frogfish.  
<Cool fish!  I am crazy about my Wartskin frogfish!>
I successfully kept a Sargassum frogfish for a good while (until my apartment lost power while I was out of town on a cold weekend), so I think I have a pretty good handle on the basics of caring for these guys.  However, I am not sure about the tank size that this larger species will require.  I saw another post on your site that said a 29 gallon tank was too small for a 5 1/2" Commerson but what size tank would be required to make sure that it will still be comfortable if it reaches 10" or so?
<Since these fish can actually reach 14", for proper housing, a tank for 75 gallons is recommended.>  
I'm also curious about compatible tankmates.  The only relatively safe options I could think of would be larger tangs and lions.  Would these be suitable or would they even be on the menu once the frog reached full size?  
<They're capable of opening their mouths up to 12 times the normal size in under 10 milliseconds and literally suck in anything unfortunate enough to swim past. At full size they will eat primarily small fish and invertebrates, so your choice of tank mates may work, as large as they are large specimens.  Otherwise, they usually won't bother much anything that they can't eat.  Anglers have been known to be stung by lionfish.>
Thanks for your help.
<Please be aware that specimens often succumb to a strange infection, which may be caused by a bacteria or a fungus. After being held in captivity for a while, large boil-like sores often appear all over their bodies and soon after their appearance, the frogfish dies.  So avoid drastic changes in pH, salinity, etc, which will weaken the fish's immune system.  ~PP>

Frogfish/Snowflake Eel  1/2/07
Greetings to the WWM crew!
<Hi Gretchen, Pufferpunk here.>
I've a small problem, I think I've fallen in love with a frog fish!
<Certainly can't blame you on that one!  I'm crazy about these weird, wonderfully camouflaged, lumbering, creatures myself.>  
I saw 2 at my LFS a few days ago and have been searching the Wet Web site as well as the web in general, for information since. (Thanks for all the information on the species on your site!)  What I'm curious about is if I could keep one in with my snowflake eel, and if so which would be the "best" suited for such a pairing? The eel (Ichi) currently is in a 125 gal tank with plenty of rock and tubes for him to hide in. He's about 18 inches long, shares his tank with a few hermit crabs and snails and seems to be very docile almost shy. He used to share his tank with a burrfish and they got along fine! (Burrfish died of parasites over a year ago. We were heartbroken, and this is the first thing I've seen that I might like to add into the tank.)
<I think this is the best tank mate for a frogfish.  Their teeth are flat, like a person's (for eating crustaceans), not sharp (for tearing into flesh), like other morays.  Been doing a lot of research myself, since I bought a Wartfin frogfish last week, with my X-mas $$$.  I really wanted to get a snowflake eel & a Fu Manchu lionfish but after researching the FAQs at WWM, I saw several Qs where it ended badly, with the frogfish getting stung by the lion.  I certainly don't want that to happen to my little guy!>
One of the things I keep seeing is that frogfish are difficult to get adjusted to non-live foods. Ichi gets fed frozen/thawed/soaked in vitamins krill, squid, shrimp, clams and the occasional live crab or ghost shrimp. Is a frogfish likely to get picky about the mix of live and non-live food? (I recall reading something about that happening on another site.)
<Exactly my problem now.  I have had the frogfish for a week.  I've been bouncing foods off a thread & hooked it on the tank, so it moves with the current & she won't bite.  I do see her "fishing" upside down in the live rock & I know there are live creatures in there to keep her fed but eventually, that will run out.  I am getting concerned & will probably get some ghost shrimp & gut-load them with foods & feed them to her for some sustenance.  I hear they are supposed to have voracious appetites & hope she takes "dead" foods soon.>
I'm trying to find out as much as I can first, and know better than to hurry into any kind of purchase!
<You may want to ask to see it eat at the store, to be sure it eats dead foods.  I took their word for it when I asked, because she had supposedly been fed that day.>
Thanks, in advance for any information/suggestions you may have!
Happy New Year!
<Happy New Year to you too & good luck with your frogfish!  ~PP>
Gretchen

Frogfish Fun
Hi all!,
<Hi there! Scott F. at your service!>
I have a small (1") Antennarius maculatus coming out of quarantine in two weeks.
<What a great fish! GREAT procedure, quarantining the fish!>
It has been tolerating fw dips and eaten a few guppies and at least one live Mysis. I currently have a 180g display tank, upstream 100g refugium planted with Ulva and Halimeda (I have yet to find a source of Thalassia in Tokyo) and a 20 gal sump w/ skimmer, ozone and carbon. Two 1500 gph pumps return sump water to display (5 ft or so), and an Eheim 1060 sending water from sump to refugium and it's overflow to display. All three tanks have a 3-4" sugar sized, aragonite substrate. This system has been up for 3 months and the display currently houses live rock (about 150 lbs), a few tiny Acropora frags, and a bunch of macro-detritivores; needless to say, it looks a little barren but I am proceeding slowly.
< Nothing wrong with going slowly. Sounds like a wonderful, well-thought-out system! BTW, Thalassia requires a deep sand bed (5-6 inches or more) to do well in...>
Okay, back to the angler. I am running another overflow from the refugium into a 10 gallon tank which will house the maculatus. This tank will drain to the sump. It currently has about 20 lbs of live rock and a 3" fine aragonite bed. So here are my questions:
1) I chose a 10g tank as it would be easier to feed and view this small angler. With the ability to transfer to larger quarters in the future, are there ethical issues of housing this fish (alone) in a tank so small?
<Actually, no! I was fortunate enough to spend part of last weekend with author Scott Michael, who is an absolute Frogfish fanatic! He says that a small tank is actually a better way to go for these fish, for a few reasons. First, it keeps them near their food! Also, they are just not particularly active fish, as you are aware. Finally, they tend to get "lost" in a larger tank, where they will blend in with the surrounding decor. He told me that he even keeps one on his desk in a small Eclipse aquarium!>
2) Are there benefits to include the refugium in this chain or would I be better off with return water directly from the sump? My refugium generates a quantity of Gammarus and small copepods. I still have to buy live Mysis. The little fellow seems to show little interest in 'pods.
<They usually don't but I certainly see no harm in him seeing some 'pods float in now and then!>
3) Can I stock this nanotank with mushrooms and polyps? Xmas tree worm rock? Are there issues with nematocysts stinging the 'feet' of my fish?
<Should not be a problem, but be aware that some of the larger, "Elephant Ear" mushrooms (Amplexidiscus species) can and do actually ingest fish!>
Any allelopathic issues with the Acros and mushrooms/polyps because they share water space (although not tank space)?
<Should not be a problem, for the most part>
4) Are there any glaring issues that I may have over looked?
<Just try to give your Antennarius a varied diet and good water quality...He should be fine.>
Thank you much in advance. I read the FAQs daily and have set up my system according to your recommended methodologies, equipments, and ethics.
<So many good ways to accomplish the same thing, aren't there?>
The service you provide has improved the quality of life for both keeper and kept. Regards, Bryan Gim
<Thank you much for the kind words, Bryan. I'm so proud to be a part of this crew, and always am thrilled to talk to my fellow hobbyists! I learn something every day! Good luck!  Scott F.>

Sargassum fish
Could I put a Sargassum fish with a lionfish, Huma Trigger, Imperator angel,
and flame angel?
<In a large enough system... but do keep your eyes on (and feed minimally) the Sargassum Fish (Histrio)... as they can/do grow quickly given enough food/feeding... and can swallow fishes near their own size (the Flame will go first). Bob Fenner>

Re: Sargassum fish
<< In a large enough system... but do keep your eyes on (and feed minimally)
the Sargassum Fish (Histrio)... as they can/do grow quickly given enough
food/feeding... and can swallow fishes near their own size (the Flame will
go first). >>
Welcome back Bob, I hope your trip was great. 
<Yes my friend, thank you>
I am going to be keeping him
in a 50 g tank with just the Huma Trigger and The Red Volitans. I am ordering
a small one from Flying Fish express I think that means 1"-3".
<Likely>
The Huma I
plan to put in there is about 3"-4" and the lion is about 5 or 6 maybe
larger. Would they be ok until June?
<I give you very good odds. Bob Fenner>

Diff. of opinion on the family of Anglers
I would also disagree with the advice you gave a previous aquarist
about these fish...
<Which advice would this be?>
To quote the maestro (from the angler FAQ):
Could I put a Sargassum fish with a lionfish, Huma Trigger, Imperator angel,
and flame angel?
<In a large enough system... but do keep your eyes on (and
feed minimally) the Sargassum Fish (Histrio)... as they can/do grow
quickly given enough food/feeding... and can swallow fishes
near their own size (the Flame will go first). Bob Fenner>
<Mmm, well I do still have this opinion for THE Sargassumfish, Histrio... but do agree with you re other antennariids. Bob F>
Regards,
Michael Krechmer

Anglers... not together
Hi I was wondering if you can keep anglerfish that are the same type together. If not, then can you keep anglers that are different types together?
<Best to keep any, all species, of Anglerfishes one to a system... they can/do eat each other... of the same or different species>
Thanks! Are anglers easy to breed? If so what are there breeding habits, etc. Thanks!
<Unknown. Bob Fenner>

Re: Itty Bitty Angler
Greetings yet again,
<Howdy>
Last stocking question for awhile.  I want to thank Bob for such a quick response to my last question, and Bob - the parrotfish on my list was meant strictly as a joke. ;)
<I understood/stand>
I was at a LFS at lunchtime, and they had the ugliest little critter I've seen.  I love him.  They list it as a 'Red Anglerfish'.  It's bright red (almost red-orange), round little sucker, about the size of a ping-pong ball.  The LFS said he would not get bigger than a golf ball,
<... am dubious re this last piece of information. Do they know the animal's scientific name? Most Anglers get quite a bit larger... and quickly! Depending on whose around to inhale>
and that he had occupied the LFS tank for a couple of months.  I immediately tried to find any information I could about this fish, but to no avail.  I currently have a 30g FOWLR, with no fish inhabitants (just two peppermint shrimp, two Turbos and two Nassarius snails), and I am getting close to stocking my first charge.  If you know anything about this fish, could this be a choice that works?
<Please take a look here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anglerfishes.htm re the anglers>
If I got a clown as I originally intended, I assume I would have to get a larger one  ;)  Sure, my wife will think it's ugly, but she'll get over it (she married me, didn't she?)
<It will be eaten by this Angler if they're anywhere near the same size>
I apologize for inundating you with stupid questions - I only try to ask questions that remain unanswered after other research, and, of course, because you've saved me a lot of grief and money to date.  Thank you again.
<No worries. Bob Fenner>
JPM

Frogfish Question
Dear Crew:
<Hi there>
Have a new giant frogfish and would like to add a few clean up critters to his tank:)  Would turbo snails be okay?  Don't want to add anything that could be a potential meal.......
Thanks:)  Janey
<Well, no absolute guarantees... but snails are about the least likely to be sucked up! Bob Fenner>

Re: Frogfish Question
Would it hurt the frogfish if he ate a snail or would it pass through okay?
Thanks for the quick reply, Bob:)  Jane
<This too would very likely pass (hee hee!). Bob Fenner>

Compatibility Frogfish with Trigger, Tang and Puffer 5/4/04
Bob!
<Hi Leslie on duty for Bob today>
I have just a quick compatibility question.  I'm planning a big rough n' tumble system and I'm thinking right now I'd like a porcupine puffer, Sohal tang, a trigger and a frogfish.
<These fish are not recommended as tankmates for Frogfish.
What sort of problems would you foresee?
Nibbling sorts of problems and all the problems associated with being picked at like stress and disease.  Scott Michael is quite the Frogfish aficionado and has written several articles which I just finished reading because I am currently planning my own Frogfish habitat . These fish are masters of camouflage. They do not have sharp spines, noxious body slime, glands containing venom, speed or any other protective mechanisms. Some change color and others have skin appendages that resemble algae. If they are contained in an environment with filamentous algae these appendages increase in size and number. Any nippers or fish that will feed on sessile inverts or algae could easily mistake your precious frogfish for a snack. He recommends avoiding the following tankmates butterfly, angelfish, puffers, surgeonfish, triggerfish and porcupine and mentions that tankmates should be 1.5 times the length of the Frogfish or they will likely end up as dinner.>
It seems like a lot would depend on the temperament of the trigger, <Definitely.>
and the biggest potential problem would be the trigger ripping up the frogfish...
<YIKES!  Certainly a possibility. Frogfish are one of my favorite fish.....Not a pretty image at all. Just the thought of that is quite upsetting. >
I was hoping if was patient and worked at picking out a more "peaceful" trigger I might be able to make it work. I'm open to any species trigger, or any species frogfish if I could make something like that work.
< I would not risk it. Have a look at some of these articles and FAQs.....
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/triggers/index.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/triggers2.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/triggercompfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anglerfishes.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anglerfaqs.htm
and the Frogfish Files on ReefCentral
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=266993&highlight=frogfish+files
Your thoughts?
If you are open to suggestions perhaps you might want to rethink your tank. Keeping a Frogfish will limit your options in that big rough n'tumble system of bad boys. Consider a Warty Frogfish A. maculatus in a small species tank on your desk or perhaps plumed to your bigger tank. There is a great article in the April/May 2004 issue of Coral Magazine  http://www.coralmagazine.com by none other than Scott Michael. He actually recommends small tanks of 5 to 10 gallons for these fish for a few reasons.....  they are not particularly active fish, their food is easily accessible and they tend to get "lost" in a larger tanks, where they blend into the surrounding decor. >
Scott
<Hope this Helps, Leslie>

Commerson angler compatibility 10/23/04
Hi guys!!
<howdy>
I have 150 gallons tank with a 7 inch Volitans lionfish, a 5 inch panther grouper, a 5 inch emperor angelfish, and a 4 inch yellow tang.
<the tang is overstocked for the long haul. Please know/believe this. If you have any doubts, go to fishbase.org and plug in the names of those fishes and see their cumulative adult sizes. Then consider if the potential 48" or so of fish in a 72" tank seems realistic/humane in the long term. Also know that these fishes, true indeed as you might hope/argue, will not actually grow that large because they will stunt developmentally and die prematurely for that very same reason. The sad thing is that some will actually live 5+years and seem "OK" with the crowding and let us forget that they did/will not make it to the 20-30 year potential (a couple of these fishes are on record over 30 years old at Nancy Aq. France)>
I want to get the Commerson angler at my LFS that is 5 inches, Do you guys see any problems here?
<aside from the stocking density... it is completely incompatible because of feeding habits. It will never compete with the active fishes for (live) food. That's assuming the angel does pick its flesh/eyes away (no kidding here). Ahhh... bad mix>
Thanks, Derik
<take this to heart, mate. And please do look at fishbase before/if you contest the assertion. Anthony>

Commerson angler compatibility II 10/23/04
Ok please do tell me your point of view of my opinion. The Commerson is indeed a bad choice, I will take your advice for sure.
<ah, good my friend. They really are neat fishes... but because of their slow deliberate feeding and need for live food, they really need a species tank>
The way I see it is that the panther is always hiding until its food time, The lionfish stays in corners and once in while does a little sprint in the open water, My angel and yellow tang does roam around all the tank, So the way I see it is that
Nobody really crosses path in the tank.
<but their behavior changes in time as they become sexually mature. The angel in particular. They often become extremely(!) aggressive! For this and other reasons, we need to have a longer view of tank stocking. Just like owning a dog and planning for a 10-20 year lifespan... and not keeping a greyhound in an apartment, e.g.>
Also, If I move the yellow tang would it be unwise to add a  Naso tang.
<very... the fish has no place in this tank. They need more swimming room as adults than many other fishes. A 6' long tank just wont cut it>
Forgot a little detail too, heheh, I am upgrading in a year or 2 max. to a 500 to 600 custom acrylic tank.
<everyone dreams and says this... and I hope it happens for you too my friend. But we must be responsible and conscientious aquarists and not take fishes into out care that we cannot provide for their full lifespan now. Life happens bud... bills, school, work changes, moving, etc... many expenses that can/will delay your $10K+ super tank dream setup. We see this week after week>
Thanks again guys and your website is exploding with excellent info. Derik
<and thank you for being so receptive/open minded about the strict advice... you will go far my friend. Best of luck/life to you :) Anthony?

Commerson Angler keeping 10/26/04
Well I am building a house in the spring and All my equipment has been focused  on this dream tank.
<very fine... but please do recognize how impatient if not inappropriate it is to buy livestock before you have a proper housing for them>
The basement is already all planned for this tank, in wall with a room behind it. I actually got the approval from my other
half for the tank, as long as I don't get an eel, she thinks there creepy. I am building my self and my dad the house so I will save big bucks...and that when the tank comes in.
<cool>
Anyhow back to the main subject. I thought so about the Naso but like the confirmation from the real guys.
<ah... good to hear :)>
Basically at this stage is there any other options for me, fish wise, or something else.
<hmmm... I'd be steering you wrong with a recommendation for another fish as long as they are limited to this tank. Again... patience my friend><
I really want to add the last special friend in there. I do have all the good equipment to take care of those fish,
<this is all about swimming space, not hardware>
I just bought a LifeReef skimmer, Wavemaker, U.V light,5 maxi jet 1200, ORP, ph, salinity, temp monitors, refractometers, t5 lights, phosphate reactor with Rowaphos for media, Fluval 404 for carbon once every other week for 3 days,  water changes every 2 weeks, and a refugium on the way. thanks  Anthony
<best of luck/life. Anthony

- Warty Frogfish -
Hello Everybody,
You guys are the best! I am considering getting a Warty Frogfish, and I am hoping that you may be able to aid me in my decision. I have a 29 gal right now, but I am upgrading to a 55 in two months.
I currently have:
2 Maroon Clowns
2 Turbo snails
1 Chocolate Chip Star
1 Pencil Urchin
1 Cleaner Shrimp
25 lbs of LR
I don't want to add a frogfish until after I have moved to the 55. Are the Maroons going to get along with the frogfish? <A better question would be how long will the clownfish last around the frogfish.> Is the frogfish going to eat the Maroons, or anything else for that matter? <Very likely that it would eat the clownfish - frogfish are really just giant mouths with a fish body attached, quite capable of eating fish their size.> Should I put the frogfish in the 55 before the maroons, since the Maroons can be territorial and aggressive? <I'd consider keeping the frogfish all by itself.> Should I even attempt getting the frogfish? <Sure... just keep in mind that its not a good community member.> Thanks in advance, I will appreciate any advice you can give me.
Tate
<Cheers, J -- >