Fish Only Tank Questions & Cyanobacteria  - 2/4/2006 Good morning fellas, <... and some ladies> I'm building a 5.5 ft long, 2 ft high, and 2ft deep tank into my basement wall (165 gallon). <Neat>   Ultimately, my two feature fishes are going to be a Zebra Moray Eel and a Lionfish.  Because both are fairly docile, I figured they'd get along pretty well. <Should, yes>   Would there be any advantage going with a dwarf lionfish vs. a 'full size' lionfish ??? <Mmm, not really... Larger pteroines tend to be more active, stay "off the bottom" more... and your tank size can/will accommodate> My idea, is to eventually add a larger surgeon fish and one or two angels.  Would a flame angel get along with what I have described here??   <Unfortunately too likely to be inhaled by the Lion eventually> Is it advisable to have a flame angel with another larger species of angel?   <Can be done in a large-enough system> Given my interests above... which fish should be added last... and which fish would be recommended to cycle my new tank on? <Best. None> With a fish only system as described, would crushed coral/gravel be alright vs. sand? <Yes> I'd also like to incorporate some live rock in two of the corners of the tank plus a rocky mound in the centre to give the fish some hiding places. In a fish only system, I wouldn't need the 1lb per gallon that a reef tank should have, correct? <More an aesthetic call> What is advisable? <A couple of piles with caves/overhangs large enough to fit the fishes> Is there a synthetic material that I could use to create my own 'coral reef like' environment? <These are inferior... not useful to maintain water quality> In my 90 gallon community tank, I am constantly battling a Cyanobacteria issue. I have 21 times water flow/hour, a Aqua-C Remora Protein Skimmer that fills 3 cups a week, 20% water changes about every 2-3 weeks.  I only have a few fish, 3 starfish, some larger snails, and some crabs.  I've been using a small powder that clears the Cyanobacteria up in about 3 days... <Not a good idea... just recycles the nutrients... and is toxic, sometimes deadly so, in its effects> but the stuff comes back every couple of months.  Is there a permanent solution to this? <Yes... and is posted on WWM>   I am careful not to overfeed, I have the water flow, the water flow is directed at all areas of the tank, I have good skimming, and I do regular waterchanges.  Frustrated.  Will I still get Cyanobacteria issues in my new larger tank with less liverock or by using a synthetic material to create 'fake' rock work? <Not with "good" planning, execution... look to means for absorbing the excess nutrients, using other/purposeful macroalgae culture and a DSB in a remoted sump/refugium... You'll "get the religion" soon, modify the 90... I assure you. The easiest, simplest means (serendipity) rules!> Regards, Dave Brynlund <Bob Fenner>

Cyano/control, adding sand and an Anthias   2/2/06 Hi crew!  I love your site and visit it daily... just to make sure there is nothing I have missed.  Keep up the great work!  I am currently in the need of some advice, however.  Tank specs as follows: 50 gallon, 20H x 18W x 48L 65lbs live rock 4 x 65 watt PC (two actinics, two 10K daylight) Ammonia/nitrite - 0 Nitrate - 10ppm PH - 8.3 at night SPG - 1.025 Calcium - 410 Alk - 4 MEQ (should this be higher?) <Mmm, no. This is right about right: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2002/chemistry.htm> This tank is a mini reef that has been up and running for 3 years.  Mostly soft corals...leathers, mushrooms, zoos, button polyps, xenia, star polyps, and a couple of impulse LPS...one hammer and one open brain.  The livestock is well and healthy...with most of the inhabitants doubling within the past year.  The tank had been fine for the first 2 years it was set up...went through the initial diatom bloom that went away as the tank settled....and I never saw any other algal blooms....until now.  lol I have what looks to be hair algae, but it comes off in clumps and feels slimy.  I'm still confused as to what kind it is, and I've searched pics posted on here and still cannot ID it.  The guy at the LFS told me it was probably due to high phosphates from my tap water.  So I bought a tap water filter  (all really I can afford at the moment) and some Ultra life Slime remover (ever heard of this?). <... yes, and not advised> I added the slime remover for a day, performed a 10gal water change in which I proceeded to scrub the algae off MOST of the live rock.  I thought I had gotten it all, things were well in the world.  However a few weeks ago....I upgraded my lighting to what is stated above.  It used to be only 2 65 watt 50/50 PCs.  And now the algae is back with a vengeance!! <Yes... just "recycled" the nutrients...> I'm assuming that I'm still getting phosphates in my water, and the light fueled another bloom? <In part, likely> I currently have no space for a sump or refugium, and run a hang on back Aqua C Remora and a millennium filter in which the media has been replaced with Chemi pure and PolyFilter. I do 5 gallon weekly changes...and I really have no qualms over brushing the algae off the rock again.  I kind of enjoy killing off the buggers.  I have also read that live rock loses it's buffering capacity and some of it should be replaced periodically?   <Yes... posted on WWM> I've had the same live rock for 3 years....would this be a smart move for me? <Yes> I'm also thinking of adding more sand to my display, but have read conflicting ways on how to do it.  I've read that you should do half first, and once that establishes, the other half. <One approach... again, posted>   I read somewhere else that you should not cover the existing layer of sand.  Since I would have to do it with my livestock STILL in the tank....would this be feasible, or just leave the 1inch I currently have alone? <I would add more... either slowly "sprinkling" on top of the existing, mixing in, or scooting old to the side, adding new there> Well...I'm not done yet!!  I have my heart set on a Starburst Anthias. Current fish stock includes, 2 black clowns who are so busy trying to decide who will be the male/female that they take no interest in anyone else in the tank.  One canary wrasse who is wrapped up in its own reflection, one bicolor blenny who on occasion munches on the aforementioned algae, and one rusty angel who is king or queen of the tank.  There lies my concern.  This fish hasn't bullied any of the other tank mates....but it is pretty boisterous come feeding time.  I was thinking I could add the Anthias with about 3 Chromis to act as dither fish, in case the angel decides he wants to reign supreme.  I haven't added any fish in a year....so I'm a tad concerned before I spend $40 on this Anthias.  ::sigh:: But the angel is my favorite. Any thoughts or suggestions? <Will likely mix, though hide in this setting> I also have my heart set on a clam...and from what I've read, the lowest light requiring species is the T. squamosa. Would I be able to maintain one with my current light set up, once the algae problem has been resolved?   <Likely, yes> That's another reason why I wanted to add more sand, I read they prefer the sandy bottom of the tank.  Also...would I need to supply phytoplankton? <... I would> Again I hear conflicting info....yes they need it, no the light is all they need.  Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.  Sorry this has been so long and excruciating....I look forward to your reply. Thanks, Karina <Take your time... and enjoy the process/es... Bob Fenner>

Cyanobacteria   2/2/06 Hi There WWM,<Hello Paul> I was wondering if you would be able to provide guidance over and above all the things I have already done in an attempt to get rid of the Cyano in my tank. For info -  100g tank, 1 small regal tang, 2 clowns, 1 bi-colour dotty, 1 flame angel 1 leather coral 1 green bubble coral 6 RL hermit crabs 1 cleaner shrimp & 2 peppermints 1 urchin 1 orange star Readings -  SG 1.025             Temp 26             Phos 0             Amm 0             Nitrite 0             Nitrate 10             PH 8.2             DKh 9.8             Calc 350 Filtration PF600 Skimmer 50k Live Rock Trickle Filter Firstly, over Christmas we stripped the tank down after 10 months of running, had Cyano everywhere, added all new live rock (50k) and added an APF600 skimmer (had a Proficiensea one before that simply didn't work).. The APF started to pull quite a bit of skimmate out  but is now skimming less thick gunk and is clearer, really don't know why..  We also added a Tunze 6080 and 2 MaxiJet 1200's.  We cut back on feeding, reduced photoperiod to 8 hours whites 10 actinics. I understand that Cyano feeds on organics / nutrients however with everything we have done I simply can't understand why we can't get rid of it.  In addition, we also have a bit of darkish ruddy algae growing on the rocks. Any help would be much appreciated. <Paul, info readily available on the Wet Web.  Do search before sending a query.   http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm> Many thanks, <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)> Paul

Algae Has Him Seeing Red!    1/25/06 Hi guys, I was curious, is red algae bad for my tank? I have it all over my rocks, apparently I don't have enough light. I have a 90 gallon with 110 watts of compact fluorescent twin tubes. I thought maybe I should scrape it off, I wanted to know what you guys thought first. Thanks for the help. Sam <Well, Sam- algae, in and of themselves are not harmful. Certain forms of algae can overgrow desired animals in your tank, and generally look unattractive. Excessive algae growth (particularly some of the red varieties) are often indicative of nutrient excesses somewhere in the system. You didn't provide information on your water parameters, so I'll just make some general suggestions. First, try to keep phosphate and silicate at undetectable levels (using quality source water, such as RO/DI, and chemical filtration media, such as activated carbon or Poly Filter). These substances are major contributors to nuisance algae blooms in aquaria. In addition, try to keep a steady, high pH and good alkalinity areas. Overall water motion should be brisk, and good husbandry habits (like careful feeding and regular water changes) should be utilized. These are just a few basic thoughts. Do read up under "algae" on the WWM site to find out exactly what algae you are dealing with, and to develop a plan of attack to deal with it if it is causing problems for your system. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> <<Excess algae growth, presence can indeed be real trouble... toxic. Particularly some species, groups... e.g. Cyanobacteria you likely have here. You want to keep this material limited... as Scott states... through various means. RMF>>  

CPR Aquafuge and  red Algae  - 01/23/2006   I have a 50 gallon SW tank set up for about a year and I've always had some kind of Algae in my tank I do water test and they seem ok  NO3 is 10 and PO4 is 00.3 to 0.1  My wife is always wanting to remove the rocks and scrub them clean. but that is problem doing that isn't it ?   <Only stop-gap... but I would do it> I am looking in to getting a CPR Aquafuge Hang-On Refugium. and putting some live sand and rock rubble and Chaetomorpha Chaeto Macro Algae to aid in phosphate and nitrate absorption. <A good/worthwhile addition> I would like to get the 25" but my tank is 36" so I'm going with the 19"  to give me some room on the back of my tank   I have this red Algae that is loose and like a sheet in small patches. is it Algae or something else. it's not all red some small hair and some green and brown. <Is likely a Blue-Green... Cyanobacteria... little doubt, slimy to the touch>               50 gallon tank                                                              1 tomato clown         50 lbs of  fine sand not beach fine sand                          1 6 line wrasse         50/60 lbs live rock                                                         1 diamond watch goby         CPRs Bak-Pak 2R protein skimmer                                 1 yellow tang        2 Maxi-Jet powerheads 1200                                       1 brittle star                                             Fluval 404 canister filter                                                  ? hermit crabs       18 watt Emperor Aquatics UV sterilization                and a thriving bunch of  button polyps that came as hitchhikers       130 watts power compact of light                                that are reproducing         <I encourage you to go ahead with your plans. Bob Fenner> Centropyge Angels and slime algae   1/21/06 Hello and thank you for answering my questions. <Welcome> I am very new to the hobby (3-4 months) and came across your site today. I tried to research as much as I could, but am having trouble finding the articles I have searched for. I'm sure I will get better with practice. <Agreed> I have a 20 gallon tank with a bio-wheel filter and sea-clone skimmer. I set it up with 'live sand' and a 1lb Fiji rock and a few pieces of base rock. After letting it cycle I added a coral beauty dwarf angel <... needs more room> and, shortly after, a cleaner shrimp. Next I added an ocellaris (sp?) clown and a green goby. The coral beauty picked on the clown for a while, but they seem to have an understanding now. <Too much stress...> I also have several hermit crabs and two turbo snails. My most recent addition is a Lemonpeel dwarf angel. <! Not in this size system, and not with another Centropyge...> I probably should have done more research first, but my fish-store guy said they would be compatible. <Incorrect> The coral beauty chased the Lemonpeel around for a few days, pushing at it with his tail and nipping. That seems to have stopped for the most part but the Lemonpeel spends a lot of time hiding behind the rocks. He seems to be eating fine (no, I don't know either sex, I just say 'he'). I have noticed that his bright yellow color has faded ever so slightly, or maybe that's just my imagination. From what I've read on your site, I think you do not think these two are compatible in such a small tank. Is that right? <They are not> Should I wait and see if they get along, or try to return the Lemonpeel (I hate to, he's so cute!) <I would return likely both dwarf angels here> My second question is about the dark green-black algae that is growing in my sand. I keep trying to siphon it out but it keeps coming back. It was on one piece of my base rock, so I just removed that. Is this the Cyano I was reading about on your site? <Very likely so, yes> You talk about over feeding as a contributor to the problem. I'm sure I'm probably guilty of this, but how much is too much? <Testing... for nitrates, phosphates...> I had a sand sifting star fish, but it 'up and died' and since I don't really know much about star fish, I won't try that again soon. <This system is too small...> I do not have an R/O filter so right now I am using distilled water from the grocery store. Is this OK, or should I buy the R/O water from the fish store? <Mmm, what's your tapwater consist of? If it is "that bad", you ought to look into RO for your own use> How often is too often to do a water change? <More than about every week on a regular basis> I have read 2 weeks, but the fish-store said not more often than once a month, and not to change the filter pack at the same time. <Good advice> I test my water and keep the ph at 8.2, ammonia, nitrites at 0 and try to keep the nitrates below 20-30. I have the phosphates tested at the store, and other than a problem with my protein skimmer that I fixed, it has stayed at 0 too. <Mmm, likely the phosphate is there... bound up in your algae growth...> Thank you so much. Karen in Kentucky <Return those angels, look into more suitable livestock for this system. See "Small System Livestocking". You and they will be much happier. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cyano in Nano  1/16/06 Thanks for the help Adam J. <Anytime, Adam J.> > Cyano in Nano > Greetings WWM crew, > <Hello.> > I have been searching your site but the answers that I find contradict > each other . > <Uh-yeah that's the marine aquarium hobby for yah'.> > I have a bit of a small problem with a salt tank that has been up and > running close to a year and a half. The tank needed replaced due to a leak > and has since stabilized out nicely . > <Cool.> *All live stock returned that same night with out problem , but I used old sand and did not scrub the rock* > But the problem that I am running into is red slime algae , and before you > pin point it yes I did over feed the tank , that is truly my fault . > <...> > It is now covering rocks and sand and starting to choke out the corals > and zoas ,so I need to gain control NOW. I have cut the feedings down to > 2x a week and have been doing aprox 10% water changes 2 x a week and the > regular 30% on Sunday. > <Sounds good/better thus far.> > I also need to move the tank and rescape (due to rotten neighbors) . > <sounds like there's a story behind that.> *A very long story for another time and I won't bore you with the details lets just say that I would love to feed the kids and dad  to a shark:) * > I would like to replace the sand bed and reseed with some old sand . > <Be sure to use fine sand, stay away from the coarse stuff.> * I would be using agr live packaged sand easier to sink an less likely to clog the PHs or the filter  and I have here unopened * > I also would like to take the rocks that the red slime and quite possibly > Cyano have gotten hold of and scrub them rinse and place back into the tank > I would also scrub all equipment as well . > <I would use a soft (new) toothbrush for this in a Rubbermaid tub of old > tank water.> *Have them at the ready :) * > I would drain 80% of the water  for reuse and the other 20 to scrub the > rocks . > <Sounds good.> *ok  can they be placed in fresh salt water (appropriately mixed )* > Can this safely be done ? > <Yes the only concern I have id for the livestock, when you do get the > tank set-up again it is going to be quite unstable following this > grueling process, it may cycle again to some degree. You need to plan > ahead for this weather it be a large quarantine system or having the LFS > hold them for a few weeks.> * That is a bit of a problem for the quarantine  as there is absolutely nowhere to place it meaning another tank (another long story for another time:)  and the pet stores around here will not hold live stock or place them into there tanks due to the possibility of bringing a parasite in , and I can not blame them on that policy as I don't want mine to get a parasite * > The other thing is that I would like to add Chemi clean to battle this > from 2 directions , knowing that it will reoccur if I do not fix it from > the source . > <Correct.> > Is it safe for the tank and corals , cleaner shrimp and micro brittle > stars . > <It claims to be though personally I would rather not use it if I didn't > have to.> *My thoughts too but I will try with the scrubbing if that does not fix then I will add but I have taken many steps to thwart this stuff * > The tank parameters are as follows: > 7gallon mb > <Ahh, now I see, small tank...nutrients accumulate quickly.> *even with the regular weekly water changes ?* > temp 76.7-77.7 degrees (not much higher or lower) > Lighting 72 watts pc lighting > Ammonia 0 ppm > nitrAte 10 ppm  *this was a typo it is 20 ppm I know no that much higher* > <Even with all the H2O changes? Where else could detritus/nutrients be > accumulating? Possibly a filter pad or behind/on the live rock? Or perhaps > this is due to the lack of a skimmer...> * I think it is in the back of the LR that I can not get to * > NitrIte 0 ppm > <Methinks you need to get a phosphate test kit.> *looking for one * > ph 8.4 > spg 1.023 (JBJ digi tester) > 2 mini jet 606 power heads > penguin 150 filter (with out BioWheel ) run with carbon pads and Chemi > pure carbon washed out in old salt water weekly and changed monthly , > Chemi pure also rinsed out weekly and changed every 3 months . > <What is your source water?> * bottled distilled , We are not about to pay from a LFS $3.50 per gallon of RO/DI and that doesn't even have salt , that's what happens when you live in a small town with junk for LFS . Since we rent we are not able to put in  a RO/DI unit the water is aerated for 24 hours then at 24 the salt added and mixed for an additional 24 hours then bottled when it is used I open the bottle and aerate for an hour or 2 before water changes  * > Thank you for your help > <Mmm-hmm.> > Heather > <Adam J.>
Re: Cyano Woes  1/16/06 Okay Adam, I will attempt to answer all your questions: <Awesome.>   1.. Skimmers> 2 Remoras, w/strong powerheads, (can't see the #, too much Cyano!) <Okay,  good skimmers.>   2.. Feeding>     Every 2 to 3 days. Frozen Shrimp, Julian springs "Sea Veggies" , flakes. <Sounds good.>   3.. Water changes> 30 gallons /mo. <Instead of one large water change every month, how about trying smaller ones every week or every two weeks. i.e.: 15 gallons once a week, or 20 gallons every 2 weeks.>   4.. Water source > Cape Cod Ma. tap water, aged in 30 gallon bucket 24 hours, salted, aerated, buffered with Kent Marine, and readied w/'SeaChem's Prime' . <If you could test your source water, just as you would your display, see what phosphate and nitrate readings are. This may be your culprit.>   5.. Specs >>>>  Nitrates aahhhm, '40', <Bingo. This alone is enough to fuel your Cyano. You need some massive water changes immediately.> hardness '300, Alk @280ppm, ph 8.0 -8.2., salinity 1.024-1.028   6.. Phosphates > Always show '0'. I use the 'Poly Filter along with charcoal cartridge  in           my external filter.   7.. Lights>>> You got me here, they are about 2 years old, maybe more. But I thought too much light would cause this problem?? !! <To much light of the wrong kind yes, but quality 'bright' lighting accompanied with lost of flow (like you have) are not friends of Cyano. Old bulbs with failing/depreciating spectrums, like the ones you have, on the other hand are a friend to Cyano. I would change your bulbs out for new ones in the 6500K to 10000K range.> Hmmm, now that you have me thinking, too little light encourages the lower form of algae, is this right? Oops.   8.. Refugium>> I don't have one. Maybe it's about time huh? I suppose I could put in under the oak cabinet I keep the tank on, right? What is a good size for a 75 gallon? <Well the bigger the better but anything is better than nothing, I think under a 75 you could fit a nice 20 gallon long.>   9.. Lastly, Stocking>>> 70 lbs LR, 50 lbs. sand, many assortment of crabs and snails, 3 small fish (my Yellow Tang died) many, many mushrooms, (too many, they are getting out of hand!!), sponges that seem to be multiplying, globular white ones, and long stringy ones. A bit ugly if you ask me. And yes, I believe these are a result of a bio overload, right? <Well it's hard to say if your tank is overstocked; you don't say exactly what type of fish and what size they are.> So, I think this answers all your questions. And like I said earlier, now that you have me thinking, I know I need to do more water changes, get a refugium, change the lights. Just one last note, last night I added "Ultra Life Slime" This is suppose to remove the Cyano. Recommended by fellow hobbyists. <Honestly I prefer not to use such medications/tools, they only cure the symptoms (Cyano) -- sometimes -- and not the root problem, which is usually nutrients. And quite often I have seen those products claiming to be reef safe do some considerable damage.> Can't wait to hear from you again. <Good luck.> Thank you for you time. I know you must be inundated with questions!! <Yup, part of the gig.> Pam <Adam J.>

Cyano in Nano   1/14/06 Greetings WWM crew, <Hello.> I have been searching your site but the answers that I find contradict each other . <Uh-yeah that's the marine aquarium hobby for yah'.> I have a bit of a small problem with a salt tank that has been up and running close to a year and a half. The tank needed replaced due to a leak and has since stabilized out nicely . <Cool.> But the problem that I am running into is red slime algae , and before you pin point it yes I did over feed the tank , that is truly my fault . <...> It is now covering rocks and sand and starting to choke out the corals  and zoas ,so I need to gain control NOW. I have cut the feedings down to 2x a week and have been doing aprox 10% water changes 2 x a week and the regular 30% on Sunday. <Sounds good/better thus far.> I also need to move the tank and rescape (due to rotten neighbors) . <sounds like there's a story behind that.> I would like to replace the sand bed and reseed with some old sand . <Be sure to use fine sand, stay away from the coarse stuff.> I also would like to take the rocks that the red slime and quite possibly cyn have gotten hold of and scrub them rinse and place back into the tank I would also scrub all equipment as well . <I would use a soft (new) toothbrush for this in a Rubbermaid tub of old tank water.> I would drain 80% of the water  for reuse and the other 20 to scrub the rocks . <Sounds good.> Can this safely be done ? <Yes the only concern I have id for the livestock, when you do get the tank set-up again it is going to be quite unstable following this grueling process, it may cycle again to some degree. You need to plan ahead for this weather it be a large quarantine system or having the LFS hold them for a few weeks.> The other thing is that I would like to add Chemi clean to battle this from 2 directions , knowing that it will reoccur if I do not fix it from the source . <Correct.> Is it safe for the tank and corals , cleaner shrimp and micro brittle stars . <It claims to be though personally I would rather not use it if I didn't have to.> The tank parameters are as follows: 7gallon mb <Ahh, now I see, small tank...nutrients accumulate quickly.> temp 76.7-77.7 degrees (not much higher or lower) Lighting 72 watts pc lighting Ammonia 0 ppm nitrAte 10 ppm <Even with all the H2O changes? Where else could detritus/nutrients be accumulating? Possibly a filter pad or behind/on the live rock? Or perhaps this is due to the lack of a skimmer...> NitrIte 0 ppm <Methinks you need to get a phosphate test kit.> ph 8.4 spg 1.023 (JBJ digi tester) 2 mini jet 606 power heads penguin 150 filter (with out BioWheel ) run with carbon pads and Chemi pure carbon washed out in old salt water weekly and changed monthly , Chemi pure also rinsed out weekly and changed every 3 months . <What is your source water?> Thank you for your help <Mmm-hmm.> Heather <Adam J.>

Re: Cotton-ball-like red filamentous algae ... BGA  1/11/06 Hi Bob, <Chuck> Thanks much for your reply to my earlier query about filamentous red algae last week. I'm guessing you're right on the mark with as identifying as a troublesome blue green. You graciously offered to expand on this. . . I'd love to hear your thoughts, especially regarding anything which would eat this stuff. <Not likely... most are unpalatable... better to utilize other avenues... covered on WWM> It wouldn't need to be reef safe, as my corals are segregated in a different tank. I added a juvenile pacific blue tang to the tank about ten days ago. . . he was pigging out on Gracilaria and this nuisance stuff (REALLY going crazy). . . and unfortunately it died suddenly over the weekend. Am wondering if this stuff is toxic to some/most fish in quantities. <I share your speculation> Also curious as to whether it 'leeches' nutrients directly from some of the other macros it latches on to. <Yes, of a certainly> Sorry for the delay in my reply. . . my email server has been down for 4-5 days, and has 'eaten' the auto reply the site sends. . . and my search on the site identified the results shown below, although clicking on the 'Cached' took me to FAQS from back in December. daily FAQs cotton-ball-like red filamentous algae (species ID unknown. . . it prompted a marine biologist to ask 'What ocean did this stuff COME from?) ... www.wetwebmedia.com/daily_faqs.htm - 101k - Jan 9, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages So while I can't access your reply, here's a copy of my original email as a refresher. Thanks again for any help on this. . . Hi gang: Having (thanks to WWM info) successfully 'starved' out my green hair algae about a year ago. . . I've been mildly plagued by a soft, puffy, cotton-ball-like red filamentous algae (species ID unknown. . . it prompted a marine biologist to ask 'What ocean did this stuff COME from?) which thrives as epiphytic (sic?) growth in my macroalgae display tank despite phosphate levels being undetectable by my Salifert test kit. Nitrites and nitrates similarly undetectable, thanks to extremely large quantity of live rock and active DSB's. Any scraps of this 'red junk' which make it into the main reef are eaten -- albeit somewhat less than enthusiastically -- by my tangs which live there). Effectively, this red stuff seems to be working as a 'sponge' for phosphates before they reach detectable levels. My other macros can't fully outcompete this stuff despite plenty of available iron in the system for this 'seaweed tank' and nearly ten gallons of Chaeto in a fishless refugium. I've purchased some ROWAPHOS phosphate removal medium. . . a kilo of it is 'rated' for absorption of 25 grams of phosphate. Prompting my question: Does anybody have a quick-and-dirty estimate of how much phosphate is generated by an ounce/pound/kilo/whatever measure of Nori (unfertilized at the growth source) and/or, by 'meaty' foods (I use limited amounts of Formula One with gel binder and occasional frozen Mysis for my clowns and large-ish red BTA. My overall stocking levels are moderately light, and I've become a miser with feeding. . . to the point where I can't cut back on the 'rations' any further. Skimming is aggressive with a DIY downdraft skimmer. . . and I get half a cup or more of 'green stuff' every day. Thanks in advance for any help with the 'math' on this. . . Chuck <<I would try both "starving it out" as you've been doing, and a/the Kalkwasser-precipitated phosphate trick (sometimes works on outright killing BGA stands... Add enough toward evening to elevate pH to about 8.6. Bob Fenner>>

Cyano... not the French Dude 01/01/2006 Hey guys at WWM, <Hello, Travis here with you today.> All of my questions have been answered about my tank with positive results. <Glad to hear it.> Now I need help with my friends tank (but I'm mainly taking care of it). It is a 58 gallon reef, and has been causing so many with Cyanobacteria. Originally his tank was a 5 gallon then expanded to a 20 gallon and used all of the sand and rock from that in the 58. The equipment he has are, 36" lunar AquaLight on timers, CPR BakPak 2r, Hydor canister with coarse pads and ChemiPure, 2 MaxiJet 1200, 1 maxi 900, used to have a AquaClear 500 refugium which didn't do the job as well as I thought. The tank inhabitants are 1 damsel, 1 Chromis, 1 sebae clown, 1 tomato clown, a small carpet anemone we got for 15 bucks (couldn't pass up that deal) and a sebae anemone, a scarlet cleaner shrimp, about 16 different snails and about 15 crabs. He doesn't want to spend money on more crabs and snails.  All of the water parameters are perfect, 0 nitrate and 0-.1 phosphate. I recently added a phosphate reactor and PhosBan after reading that the algae could use the nutrients causing the test to be negative. Ph is perfect. I would stir up the sand bed almost everyday and 2 hours later it would all be back. Everything is covered and no sand can be seen. I talked to many people at fish stores and they said to remove all of the sand and let the nutrients be removed from water changes. I thought this could screw up the biological system but my friend is willing to do anything to rid this algae. When he set this tank up he killed most of the biologically bacteria by placing the sand from the 20 gallon into a bucket with freshwater. I find this out and I was shocked. So we went to ThatPetPlace in Lancaster and bought a 20 lb bag of AragAlive and a 30 lb bag of Aragamax dry sand. He had about 30 lbs of live rock to start with and we bought 20 more there. We put the sand and rock back in the tank trying not to kill everything with no biological bacteria. So a couple days go by without any signs and now on the 3rd or 4th days some parts of the sand are starting to get that rusted color, the dreaded red slime is coming back. No one can figure out his problem. We have been to many fish stores and no one can solve it. I can't even solve it and my reef tank at home is doing amazing. What could be wrong here? <First, Cyano is not an algae at all. Cyano is actually a bacteria. There is a product on the market called Chemi-pure or Chemi-clean (Sorry, I am on very slow dial-up tonight or I would look it up to be sure) that many have had good results using. It is supposedly reef safe. Obviously, use at your own risk. Another thing I have been toying with is tank water parameter imbalances allowing Cyano outbreaks. I have found that Cyano does not do well in high calcium and high alk. situations. Be careful if you try this approach as too high of alk or Ca will cause Ca to precipitate and will crash your tank. So, raise the levels slowly and with in reason. You can also lower the amount of Cyano in your tank by increasing flow. Hope that helps, Travis.> thanks Joe

Re: Red Slime Algae 01-03-05 I have tried Chemi-clean which is what you are talking about as well as red slime remover. I do know it is a bacteria and not an algae. When I got the water tested they told me the calcium is around 500 maybe more. <This would lend toward the chemical cause theory I have been working on. Cyano seems to thrive with extremely high Calcium, low alkalinity, or an imbalance of the two.> As I think about it, what really leads me to believe the problem is, is lack of water changes. <That too would be a possible cause.> Mostly my friend would top off the tank and when he did that it was a 5 gallon top off which is too much of a fluctuation in that size of a tank. Is there any ro units and can we make one that won't produce waste water? <You could use a DI only set up. There is no waste and they are supposed to be fairly easy to recharge. There is no RO set up that does not produce waste. One thing I like to do is to use the waste water to wash laundry. There are many more ways to recycle the waste water.> He relies on me for ro and it costs me money as well as gas to bring it to his tank. He really would do a 5 gallon water change average every month. I started to do them every week at his house for about a month and no results. We are stumped. No product such as Chemi-clean and red slime helped. After using ChemiClean his water is clearer but we found some dead crabs. Have no idea what to do. <Get the calcium, alk., and magnesium levels squared away and make sure to monitor all water parameters, including phosphate, Cyano does tend to leave (just as quickly as it comes back) on its own if everything is balanced. Travis> Thanks
Joe 

Phosphates + Nitrates = Cyano  12/24/05 Gentlemen- <Actually we have some lovely ladies here as well, 2 of which are in charge while Bob is out hehe. But tonight you do have a 'dude,' Adam Jackson here with you tonight.> Happy Holidays first of all! <And to you as well my friend.> I have a 58 gallon Oceanic Show Tank.  The contents are as follows: 1 Green Mandarin <I hope you researched the needs of this animal prior to purchase, most starve in smaller aquariums, especially those that lack dedicated large fishless refugiums for a food source.> 1 Potters Angel <Notoriously difficult Centropyge to keep, though it is a beautiful fish. Make sure to feed a variety of foods and consider a nutritional supplement such as Selcon.> 1 Small Yellow Tang <Monitor size, will eventually need larger quarters.> 1 Cleaner Shrimp <Good choice.> 1 Maroon Clown <Watch for aggression, some maroons are downright psychotic.> 1 Green bulb/long tentacle anemone Couple pieces of live rock with various mushrooms Couple pieces of live rock with assorted polyps 1 Flower pot coral <This is also a specimen that usually perishes in captivity, at present time its needs are not a 'set-in-stone' fact and until then it should be left in the ocean.> 1 Hammer Coral 100 pounds of live rock Filtration/equipment: Remora Aqua C hang on skimmer <Good piece of equipment.> Fluval 404 - Only packed with Chemi-pure and Purigen (A Seachem product) Wet Dry Filter with live rock in trickle chamber, no bio-balls Coralife UV Sterilizer 1 Rio 600 Water pump <Careful these are known to fail resulting in some unpleasing events to say the least. I'm not a fan of this product.> 1 Seio 820 Water Pump 2-2x96 Power compact lights - (384 watts in total) 150 Watt Ego-Jager Heater <All sounds good.> Questions/Advise Needed: <Sure.> 1) Outbreak of Red Cyanobacteria. On substrate (Sand) and on some rock.  Last night I installed this Seio water pump in some rock to increase water flow to area. I also added Phosban in mesh bag to sump area of wet.dry filter - Any other thoughts here? <How old are the membranes on your RODI unit, they need to be placed every year or you'll start to see nitrates, phosphates, etc.. in your source water.> 2) All coral and inverts are thriving, but nitrates are high, 20-40ppm. <This is the problem along with some trace phosphates I'm willing to bet.> I use RODI water for all water changes and I always change 7 gallons every Sunday.  Thoughts here? <Increase the water change amount, at least 10 gallons, 15 would be even better.> 3) Will the supplement of Kent Marine Zoe to the water increase the dissolved nutrients in the water and perhaps adding to my Cyano issue?   <If it is overused yes, liquid supplements like bottled phytoplankton can cause nutrient pollution.> I should mention that the phosphates tested on the low range scale of around .4 <Oh, I was right.> 4) When adding top off RODI water what type of buffering should be done to it to get the right ph?  Is just adding some Marine Buffer enough? <Yes that's fine, any marine pH buffer will do, personally I use Salifert and SeaChem.> Thank you so much for your time, I really appreciate your input. <No trouble Bryan, I would do a few things, replace RODI cartridges/membranes, bigger water changes and look into a refugium (search WWM re: refugium).> Bryan <Adam J.>
Re: Phosphates + Nitrates = Cyano Adam / WWM Crew- <Hello Bryan.> I hope that you had a pleasant holiday, and once again thank you for your time and responses.   <Same to you my friend.> I had a few follow-up questions for you... <Sure.> - I installed a Phosban reactor to help with the .4 phosphates and the Cyano is taking longer to grow which before the use of this unit it would be back overnight.  Just an FYI... <Okay.> - In regards to the water changes, I will certainly move to the 15 gallon every Sunday, but the question is if I do this then the inverts/corals would be out the water until I re-filled the tank.  Is this an issue? <Depends on the invertebrates or corals in question, though generally I try to avoid air exposure.> - How often should I clean the Fluval?  It is only filled with Chemi-Pure and Purigen (Sea-Chem product)?  I do not use any filter pads in the Fluval. <I would just check it weekly for any sort of detritus accumulation.> - I use Polyfilter in the wet/dry trickle tray and it does remove a substantial amount of junk!  I know they are not the cheapest media on the market, but as you know they are wonderful!  I never rinse them and re-install, but how long are they useful before they need to be replaced? <I would remove any collected detritus/debris from it weekly.> - On a side note I must say that the Mandarin and The Potters Angel are doing exceptionally well!  The Potter loves to eat Mysis shrimp that has been soaked in Zoe/Selcon and the Mandarin will actually eat the shrimp from my Sea Squirt (Kent Marine plastic feeding device)  They have been in my tank together for over one year! <You have been very lucky with these specimens.> - Nitrates.  Headache to say the least.  Aside from water changes, is there a way to "boost" or "energize" my biological filtration?  I.E. Bacteria supplement? <Well you are utilizing a wet-dry filter system, which I'm really not fond of. They are great at breaking down ammonia and nitrite but so good with nitrate. I would look into the possible removal of these and the adding of a macro-algae refugium, especially since this is a reef tank.>   I have a product called TLC for saltwater tanks and it is basically a natural bacteria that is supposed to help, but it just seems to me that the bio cycle is out of whack.... <This product does not really contain live bacteria, I would discontinue use.> As always, thank you for your time and assistance. <No trouble.> Very Best Regards, <TO you as well.> Bryan <Adam J.- and seriously look into the 'fuge, good info here on WWM and elsewhere.>

Mr. Mom vs. The BGA - 12/17/2005 Hello crew! Happy Holidays! <Howdy Jeff! Sorry for the delay. Thanks and Happy Holidays to you as well.> Well I have neglected my great hobby to be short and sweet, my wife deployed in August and isn't coming home till end of March. I have a 6, 5 & 1 year old and with me also being active duty I have no time, I have constantly had to put the tank off. Now it has made me pay and I need your help to know if it's too late. <Alrighty!> I have a 55 gal setup with 60 lbs live rock, Remora pro 1200 skimmer, a pair of 280 Emperors and a power head running with a Coralife Lunar Aqualight. I have consulted you guys before with great help. My inhabitants include a Regal Tang, Percula Clown and a Banggai Cardinal. They are happy it seems and the clown and cardinal have been in there for over 2 and a half years. The Tang is going on 7 months now. I also have a sally light foot, choc chip star, blood shrimp and about 15 assorted crabs (zebra, scarlet, red, blue) The water has been the most neglected and its readings today are 0 ppm Nitrite, 40 ppm Nitrate, .25 Ammonia & 8.4 ph! <Are you missing any snails, or is it just that dirty!?> Temp & salinity are good, I have had an algae outbreak in the last 3 weeks that started brown and now has spread like fire and turned red and hairy everywhere! <I see you've met Cyano!> I know stop rolling your eyes, I have been swamped with real life stuff but now I have tons of time over the next 3 weeks with grandma visiting to get it right! <You know, ammonia of .25 and a massive BGA problem is real life stuff to your charges! I understand what you mean though, just takes that much more drive (even if you only get to sit down for 5 min. instead of 15).> Here are my questions I figured a 5 gallon water change every 3 or 4 days till I get it good with water purified from the store (in the big drinking jugs) mix it in my plastic tub for about 2 days with salt and powerhead and repeat for 2 weeks so about 4 small gradual water changes. Is this a  good plan? <At least for the first 2 weeks, make these large. In the 30% range. Be sure to buffer and aerate the top off water as well. On top of strict maintenance, you'll need to keep things consistent.> I also want to add my 2nd & 3rd powerhead with wavemaker I've had for a month now to get the water moving around better. My lights are on timers already so it's not that as you have already schooled me on the intervals. Will the algae go away? Am I doomed? <You're not doomed but your free time is;) Read up on BGA control, nutrient control. You'll need to start with manual removal, then follow up with aggressive skimming, water changes and a strict feeding regimen (no extra). Take care and enjoy your holiday "break"!> Please advise. Jeff <Josh>
Re: Mr. Mom vs. The BGA - 12/27/2005 OK I'm hard at work but have a couple questions. <Let's here 'em!> I've added the 2 extra 1200s and wavemaker for better flow. The Cyano continues to grow however. I've done 2 30% waterchanges over the last 8 days. <By this time I would've done at least four.> Livestock seems to be doing well, but I believe all the snails are gone. <Do an extensive search to confirm. Sniff any empty shells you find and if they smell putrid, remove them. You can either discard or clean them, your choice.> Should I head to the store and load up on hermits and snails? <Nah, they won't really help. They don't eat the Cyano so just focus on the manual removal, skimming and water changes.> How do I get it off the rock? <Siphon it off or remove the rocks, one at a time, to a bucket filled with system water and scrub-a-dub.> Please don't tell me by taking it all out. <Don't have to remove them, just don't scrub them (or blow them off) in the tank and create a Cyano storm.> Also if I do need to take it all out can I remove the bed for a finer sand bed since I had to go that far? <You could if you are prepared to follow through with water changes. It would likely trigger a small cycle but water changes would see you through.> Should I turn off the lights for a few days only turning on to feed? <I wouldn't.> I read that will kill the Cyano, however it wasn't on your site so I don't trust it. <I've heard this as well, but never seen it "work wonders". Lights are less at play than the available nutrients in your system.> Is the Remora Pro 1200 good enough skimming power? Seems it should be plenty. <Should be fine. AquaC is a good brand.> Please advise I have 9 days till I go back to work and Grandma leaves. <Just concentrate your efforts on the water changes w/ manual removal. Make sure you don't have dead flow areas in the tank and check that your skimmer is clean and able to do its best. Keep your filtration clean and run some Polyfilter or carbon to help clean up that water. Make sure you are buffering that top off water as well.> Thanks & I hope you all had a Merry Christmas. <Quite merry! I've actually not been on since the 24th so I'm sorry I'm just sending this out (didn't know it was in my box). Hmm...I guess you've got 7 days left now.> Jeff I was also thinking of changing to a 90 gallon corner bow tank using the live rock and majority of water so the livestock survive. Will the Cyano transfer too? <Not unless you transfer it! Scrub the rocks before placing them and start that new sandbed you were talking about. - Josh>  
Re: Mr. Mom vs. The BGA - 12/31/2005 Josh, thanks for all your help, every time I encounter a problem with my tank it baffles me on the amount of info I don't know. <Pleasure to be of service Jeff! If you ever stop being amazed at the amount still to be learned, you're setting yourself up to be blindsided!> Seems I have turned the corner, I took all rocks out one at a time and scrubbed them down in tank water siphoned off to a bucket (I did it in conjunction with water change). <Woohoo! Great job, glad to hear things are looking better.> The Cyano is still coming back but slower. <Yes, will take a couple or few weeks to be completely beaten.> I have stepped up the water changes to every other day now (30%). I believe I have one more late night scrubbing rocks in my future but will be out of the woods soon with the water changes. <I would try to avoid a second scrubbing unless absolutely necessary. Water movement/changes and skimming from this point should be enough. Don't want to scrub away beneficial components of the LR.> I am changing the skimmer daily and the wavemaker is going strong moving the water. <Good to hear. Many don't realize the importance of keeping a  clean skimmer.> Now I turn to the future, I plan to go back to my regular plan but this time don't EVER put it on the back burner because this has sucked. <Yep! A little love along the way makes this hobby much easier.> I will do a 10% water change on the weekends and every 3rd week a 20%. <Sounds good. If keeping all in an optimal state, you should be fine just doing the 10% and not need the 20%. But, The 20% won't hurt (just a bit more expensive).> I've always just brought the water up to temp on Friday with a 900 powerhead in a 10 gal Rubbermaid with Start Right and then the following day added salt (Sat). Checked the PH on Sunday and buffered if needed and in it went. Is this crazy and the source of my problem? <Not crazy. I would buffer before salt though. Are you checking pH of initial source water, then rechecking after it's aerated for a day? Using a high quality salt mix?> It is how I was told to do it to avoid spending big bucks. <Can work. It's what I've done for a long time now (minus the Start Right). I would extend this schedule. Try starting on Mon. and allow about two days between each step.> I have a water softener because my Missouri water is harder than you know what. <Ouch! This is probably a big part of your troubles! Anyway to get presoftened water?> Top off water has always just been kept in a 2 gal bucket with start right with an aerator pump in it. When I hear the skimmer making noises I dump a gallon or 2 in. <Another problem. Make a habit of checking the level at least daily (twice would be better). This will really help with consistency.> Do I have to purchase an RO/DI unit? <Not necessarily, though I would consider it.> And if I do, I take it I HAVE to buffer it afterward by all the reading I'm doing tonight. Should I just set up 2 Rubbermaids in the basement with powerheads & a heater, 1 for top off water with buffered RO/DI water (about 3-5 gallons always ready) and another with the same but salt mix added for water changes (about 10-15 gallons). <This is what I do.> I have a good room in my basement by my water softener can the RO/DI units tap into the water pipe directly just before the softener? <Yes. Actually NEEDS to be placed ahead of the softener.> I assume this would be best with a RO/DI unit that has a tank. I am concerned this can happen again and it seems it was a combination of bad water build up over the years and overfeeding. I also think lack of carbon attributed to it. I have since gone back to adding carbon in my Emperor 280s. <Well, there's always the chance of this coming back if maintenance becomes lax. How long since you've added LR? May help to cure some new and add or swap it out. It could have reached this point as it dissolves over time.> I've heard bad and good on carbon so what avenue on these issues do I take? <That's all a personal choice really. What ever you do choose, be consistent and keep it clean. I would continue the carbon use.> Not only do I want this not to happen again but I am really trying to do it right, I've sunk far too much $$ to screw this up and I've slowly added all I need by learning as I go. Also my bed as I have mentioned before is not finely crushed coral. Should I remove it and start the cycle over with sand or finely crushed coral? <Another personal choice. Review our articles and FAQs on this. Just make sure that you heed the advice re depth per grain size.> What is the best setup as I want to do coral and more delicate fish as I get the hang of this and not just the Nemo theme and rock as I have had the 4 years its been up. <I would personally choose the finer sand. Study up on DSBs also but be sure to cover it thoroughly. Misapplication can be nasty.> Thanks again Jeff
<Anytime. - Josh>