Reading WWM re clownfish disease   2/23/06
  I have a clownfish that looks to have clownfish disease and don't know what to use. Right now I am using Melafix.
<Worthless>
Would Greenex or Cupramine work better?
<...>
I have used Greenex before with good results. The Cupramine didn't work as well. I have checked the nitrates, nitrites, ammonia, phosphate, and ph twice. The readings look good. Any suggestions?
  Chris Burgdorf
<Yes... to read on WWM re.: http://wetwebmedia.com/clndisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Learn to/use the Google search tool
Don't write... read.
Bob Fenner>
 

Dying Clown   2/13/06
First, I want to say thank you for your site. I highly value it and pore <and pour> over it almost daily.  I cannot find what I'm looking for so thought I would write for hopefully some fairly quick help.  
<Okay>
As stated, one of my clownfish is dying and I need help, though I'm afraid it may be too late.  A little history (don't know what's pertinent, so will tell all):  I have had my 29 gallon setup for over a year.  I had some fish losses due to poor husbandry as there was a lot of "stressful" stuff going on in my life that took precedence.  Anyway, got everything back on track and started with 2 clownfish over  2 months ago.   As I had no quarantine tank, I placed them right in the tank.   After a few days, one developed a white spot behind its eye which cleared up on its own, came back, cleared up, came back and cleared up for good.  No problems since then.  
A couple weeks later I bought a royal Gramma which was doing fine until my heater broke and sent the water temp sky-high before I could get a new one.  The clowns seemed unaffected.
I had been dealing with some problems with nitrates (about 20 but climbed to 30 or 40 a few days after water changes), so I went ahead and splurged on a Aqua C Remora skimmer.  The nitrates went to 0 overnight.  Sometime in there, I bought more live rock (about 7 pounds which makes about 20-25 pounds total now) and one of them had some green striped mushrooms.  They are doing fine.
Anyway, about a week ago, same time I added the protein skimmer, one clown stopped eating and then I noticed some stringy white feces.  Looked it up on your site and discovered it was an internal parasite.
<Only maybe>
I found an old tank in my mom's garage, fixed it up and medicated the fish with something called Clout which the LFS recommended.  I had to leave for the weekend, and the ammonia in the QT tank was climbing each day so I asked my mom to come in after 24 hours (of medication) and put the fish back in the main tank.  I didn't want the clown to die of ammonia poisoning while I was gone,
<Very common>
and mom doesn't know how to do "fish stuff", so I thought this was its best chance.  The clown was still not eating, but seemed fine when I left.  My mom reported that the fish seemed fine when she put it in the tank and even looked like it was eating a little.
Well, when I got home I immediately checked and my poor fish was lying on the bottom, gasping for breath.  I whisked it quickly back into the QT tank after doing a quick water change (in the QT) and checking the water parameters.  I thought it might be starving so put in some medicated food.  It seemed to almost be jumping along the side of the tank, and seemed to try to eat, but not much.  I turned away and when I came back the fish was stuck to the filter intake, so I quickly turned it off and the clown went back to its hiding spot that it had previously found.  Anyway, it's now lying on the bottom again, gasping for breath.
<Likely "ammonia burned", and/or stressed from contact, changes...>
I even put another dose of medication in the tank, as the box said to, and I tried to lower the spg a little.  I don't know what else to do.  All of the water parameter in the main tank are fine: ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 0, pH about 8.3.  In the QT tank, the ammonia had decreased to just above 0 and the nitrates had increased to just above 0 (ammonia had been at .50).  pH is also 8.3.  They should be quite diluted now with the 50% water change I did.  
Do you have any thoughts?  Anything else I can do?  I suppose the fish could have perished while I was writing this, but I had to try.  I don't know what else I can do.  The other clownfish is absolutely fine.
<Mmm, for other readers, to be careful re the use of Clout (tm) and all other "medicines" that contain organophosphates (yes, arthropod insecticides)... these acetylcholinesterase inhibitors should not be re-used repeatedly... likely this is one of the influences leading to the observed behavior here>
Oh, btw, on Friday before I left, I purchased a skunk cleaner shrimp and a peppermint shrimp and acclimated them to the tank.  (Perhaps I should have waited but wanted to get rid of any parasites in the main tank
<Won't do this>
plus an Aiptasia bud that came with a piece of live rock I had purchased, before it gets out of hand).  Anyway, when I got back tonight I couldn't find the peppermint shrimp anywhere.  Do you suppose it could have died and my hermit crabs already ate it?  
<Possibly>
The only thing I can think of to have caused its demise is that the store water was 7.0 and I had to slowly adjust it to my water pH.   
<How slowly? This would take many days...>
I know, I know, I've likely done some wrong things here, but I am learning each day and do want to do what's best for these creatures.  My boyfriend just gave me the Conscientious Marine Aquarist over the weekend and I've been poring through it as well.
I know this is a long email, but I also know you like detail so you can give good advice.  If I've left out any pertinent info just let me know.  I do believe that the problem is isolated to this one clownfish.  I wonder if it became stressed from my messing with the tank so much,
<Yes>
trying to get the nitrates down?
<Yes>
If it was already weak when I bought it, could this be it?
<Yes>
I appreciate any help (even reprimands) that you can give me, and will try to do even better in the future.  Will be using a QT tank from now on, though I don't know that it would have helped in this case.
Thanks again,
Amy Skipper
<... I do wish there was some (simpler) way of relating, telling "what needs to" here... I would not use Clout (tm) in this circumstance... You would not likely have had these problems period had you had a large-enough system (a 29 is too small), or quarantined your new livestock... I wish you well. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish Fin Regrowth  - 2/11/2006
Hey Guys,
<Watch out... there are some women hereabouts>
After suffering the loss of one of my clownfish, a pair of true Percs, several weeks ago I finally made an attempt to add a replacement - another
true perc about 1/3rd the size of the surviving.  Everything seemed fine for a day or two, they almost immediately paired up and I never saw any
aggression between the two (still haven't).  However, I woke up the other day to find that my surviving clown (the big one) had lost approximately
1/3rd of its tail fin.  The damage looked more torn than bitten and occurred to rapidly to be fin rot.  I have a very peaceful tank with no other fish.
Either the new tankmate attacked him or there was a incident with a powerhead.  It seems unlikely that the two would still be getting along so
well if my new clowns was the night stalker,
<Agreed>
but on the other hand the big clown often seems to host my Seio 620, lying directly on it.  Will the tail regrow, I've heard it they do?
<Should, yes... do so unless the damage is "down to the bone", or the cause is persistent...>
I was also thinking of putting the injured clown into one of those in tank hand on breeder separators, should protect him from powerheads or aggression, but how long would he have to be separated. how fast, if at all does a fin regrow?
Derek
<A week or two and a month or three... I do suspect that "stress", perhaps a hyperinfective microorganism brought in with the new (unquarantined) clown might be at play here. Should heal/go in time. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish worries 02-07-06
Hello all,
<Cheryl>
I've been reading over your site for days but I'm still not sure what's going on with my pair of ocellaris clowns.  I've had them for a year, and  they
are tank bred and raised.  <Good choice on getting tank bred.> They are in a 55 gallon tank with the  following
conditions: 45 pounds live rock, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 25 ppm nitrate,  ph 8.3, SG
1.025 and temperature of 78 degrees.  I should mention nitrates  were recently 40+ ppm. Seems I had a couple of bad test kits giving me  false 0-5 ppm
results. <That will happen. To limit this issue always stick to the higher quality brands, such as Salifert or others similar.> I use a skimmer and run PolyFilter and  carbon.  Other inhabitants are a yellow tang, skunk cleaner shrimp,  peppermint shrimp, two hermit crabs and six snails.
For the past couple of weeks all the fish have been hiding behind the rocks during the day (they come out more in the evening when the room is dark.)   
They've been eating fine ( a mix of frozen Formula One and Two, flake Prime Reef, frozen Mysis shrimp and Seaweed Selects, supplemented with Selcon and Zoe.)  Actually, hiding is not unusual for the tang since he's always been  that way.  But for the clowns, this is different.
About three days ago I noticed the male clown was breathing hard, not  eating and pretty much sitting in one place at the bottom of the tank or in the  
rocks.  He'd swim around occasionally, but with greater effort.  Since  I could see no spots or other external sign of disease, I just kept an eye on  him.  
Yesterday I moved him to the quarantine tank after seeing the female  shove him off his ledge. His condition has not changed but now the female  is not eating and seems lethargic.  As with the male, I can see nothing  amiss with her appearance. I'm at a loss.  Any help you can offer would be greatly  appreciated.
<My initial thought was Brook or Clownfish disease. This is due to the heavy breathing and lethargic behavior. If you notice their slime coat loosening you will need to treat them with formalin. After reading further I have come to the conclusion that it could also be advanced internal parasites. If you noticed them with stringy feces recently you will want to treat them with an internal parasite medication. Travis>
Many thanks,
Cheryl

Re: reef problems... Just crowding   2/6/06
Sorry for the grammatical errors last time. I was in a rush.
The problem is that all my fish are twitching out of control. My clownfish will go on his side completely and will shudder and twitch- as if he was
having a seizure. My hippo tang is doing it also- but not my blenny. All of my inverts. are o.k. also. The twitching all started when I added a second
clown of the same family to the tank. Any ideas as to what is causing these behaviors or how to fix them? My tank is twenty gallons- long version with a
power filter and skimmer and the current live stock is: two clownfish (ocellaris), one hippo tang (less than the size of a quarter), a small
blenny, a button polyp colony, banded coral shrimp, and a clean up crew consisting of about five hermits and three snails. -thanks
<... way too small... your problems are rooted in crowding... behavioral and physiological... You need more room, period. Bob Fenner>

Clownfish Woes 02-05-06
Hi guys,
<Derek>
I'm having a little trouble with a new clownfish.  I picked up a wild caught True Perc pair a few days ago, about a week went by with no incidents just
some strange hosting choices (powerheads, glass, even sand), today I noticed one of the clowns had started developing what I thought was pop eye, a very
mild case of it though, I thought it could be caused by him constantly playing in the sand.  Over the course of the night however the other eye
seems to be suffering very slightly and he appears stressed.  I couldn't get him to eat today and he wasn't swimming much just laying or sitting on the
bottom.  I put some Epsom salt in the tank, but it is too early to tell.  I checked all my water parameters and everything was fine (reading Zeros), but
just in case I ran the RO/DI and am preparing a water change for tomorrow and also setting up a small quarantine tank.  Within the last few hours he
began swimming in circles, hiding behind powerheads, and now is resting inside my cave - while I am afraid he'll get hurt hiding in the rocks I
don't want to move him till I know I can get him easily and the QT tank is up overnight.  My question is should I leave him in the display tank (there
are no other fish besides the other clown and no harmful invertebrates) or does he need the isolation of a QT tank?  And should I be trying any other
treatments such as Maracyn Plus?
<If it is truly pop eye, it would be best to leave him in the tank. Most pop eye is caused by an abrasion and should clear up in a week or two. Since your clowns are new you will want to watch them for brook and internal parasites. Remember all fish should be quarantined for 4-6 weeks before being added to your display so they can be treated for these diseases. Travis>
Derek

Very sick Clown   1/31/06
Hello.  I love your site -- very educational and excellent for research.  I have had a 90 gal FOWLR set up for two years with very little fish loss.  I have a long horned cowfish, a dogface puffer, coral beauty, yellow tang, and a Clark's clown.
Parameters: specific gravity 1.025, 0 nitrite/0 ammonia/nitrate 40-60 ppm.  Wet/dry w/out bio balls.  Can't get nitrate lower.
<... there are means>
Have tried for over a year.  I know I have big eaters here.
<Yes... and a dearth of denitrification>
Problem today --  I am highly upset because my clown (I have had all of these fish for one to one and half years) has ragged fins, loss of color, swimming on side and upside down near top of tank.
<Trouble...>
  I haven't seen much of him last few days, all of a sudden he appeared this sick. His behavior is extremely out of character.  He has never been sick before.  I did recently one month ago purchase a new VHO white actinic bulb, leave it on 10-12 hrs per day.  Also had an outbreak of brown algae which covered the rocks, clumped in the sand.  Did a 25% water change yesterday.  The yellow tang has a brown circle spot on its side also, looks like an "o".
<Good description... stress marking... you've likely seen something similar if/when turning the lighting on during the night>
  What medicine is the best course for the clown?
<... none. Not a pathogenic disease... but environmental>
Please advise whether you think this is bacterial?  I would do anything to save this fish.  Am setting up quarantine now.  Thank you in advance for your compassion and quick response.  I have a good aquatic store staff but sometimes get conflicting info.  Thanks, M. Lee
<The simplest, fastest measure to take would be to move these two fish to another up and going system if you had such. The "real" troubles here are crowding and too-much incompatibility... the Cowfish is variably toxic in confined space... and the nitrate being elevated... What would "solve" the apparent disease issues here are more volume/space, dilution (water changes), chemical filtration (mainly carbon), the addition of erstwhile filtration (including anaerobic digestion... the best? A DSB in a tied-in sump/refugium...). You are faced with the decision, choices here of improving these animals world or translocating some of them to new ones. Bob Fenner>
Michelle

Re: Very sick Clown   2/2/06
Bob:
  Thank you so much for your reply.  I kind of already had the suspicion that I would have to get rid of the cowfish or the dogface.  The clown is improving -- I have had him in quarantine with Nitrofurazone for two days.  He does have a patch of detaching skin on top of his head; thought this might be Vibrio?  
<No, not likely... probably "just" the Clown... reaction>
Do you think it OK to move him to my 13 gal Eclipse tank?  Excellent parameters and only three small crabs, coral banded shrimp, and a canary wrasse.  Problem there may be that the only filtration is the standard carbon filter.  Thoughts?
  Thanks again, M. Lee
<Maybe will go... worth trying. Bob Fenner>
Michelle

Help! sick clownfish  - 1/30/2006
Hi guys!  I think I have a sick clownfish on my hands.  Yesterday he was acting weird and hiding when he is usually very friendly.  Today I noticed
that he was just sort of hanging in his Anenome (recently purchased bubble tipped) and not moving and has his face just smashed into it.  Now
he is just laying on the bottom.  He looks like he is having trouble breathing and looks like patches of his scales may be flaking off?
<Not good>
His eyes are kind of bulging and his white patches have turned somewhat brown. It seems like he has gone downhill fast and I don't know what to do!  I
don't have another tank to put him in. My tank is relatively new, I've had it for a month and the water tested safe at the store and I just tested it
and it was safe as well.  The tank is 46 gallons with a coral beauty and a firefish.
<Too soon to put this life here...>
About 36 lbs live rock, protein skimmer, PC lights, and penguin powerheads.  Since I don't have a separate tank to put him in should I
place him in a bucket or something until I find out what's wrong and if he is going to make it so he doesn't infect the other fish if there is
something wrong with him?
<Not possible to tell from here>
Also do you think he got hurt by the BTA?
<A definite possibility, yes>
  He really has been just laying in it all day today but who knows.  Thanks for trying to save my clown fish!
Ashley Mcnulty
<Is this a tank bred/reared Clown? If not... likely dying... as "programmed". Bob Fenner>

Blue? Clownfish... Too small a system, mis-medicated/poisoned  - 01/12/2006
Hi Crew,
My name is Bob and I'm a first time 'caller'.
<Hello Bob>
To try and make a long story short, I have a maroon clown for about 18 months now. He has been a very healthy and happy fish, especially since I added a Bubbletip about six months ago. Lately though he's been acting very erratically. He's been fin slapping the h**l out of the Bubbletip, more than usual.
<Happens... sometimes to the detriment/death of the anemone...>
What has me worried is that tonight I noticed that the white strip around his head is 'cracked and peeling?', his eyes are glazed over, ( he can still see with no problem), and he's turning blue around his mouth, the tip of his dorsal fin, and his tail fin.
<This may be "normal"... or... caused by...?>
Last week I had a seemingly healthy Flame Angel die from suspected velvet. The 33 gal. tank
<... this tank is too small...>
was  treated with Rally.
<Garbage... worthless... a sham... is this clear?>
P.H is 8.0-8.2, Alk. normal, Nitrite <0, Ammo 0-0.25, and Nitrates (which I can never seem to get under control no matter what I try), are at 20.
<This is an okay value; no higher>
It was during this treatment that the clown completely  stopped moving while inside the Bubbletip.
<... and what did you think?>
I went in after him with the net, (which he just hates) and he went berserk, swimming erratically around the tank until he came to rest inside a cave where he stayed for quite a long time. This was very unusual since he rarely leaves the Bubbletip except to eat and maybe do a lap or two. Now tonight, almost a week after the treatment this happens. Also very unusual, on both occasions he never came out to eat. He's normally the first one to the top when he sees the feeding dish.   Pleeeeease help as I don't want to lose my "Boz". As I am not very good with computers or typing, If at all possible a phone call would be much appreciated.  
                                               Thanking you in advance
                                              Robert Jack
<... well, I'd use some activated carbon to aid in the removal of compounds resultant from the "treatment" and its subsequence... and really just hope for the best here. Bob Fenner>

Re: Blue? Clownfish ... facts, other noise - 01/12/2006
Good evening Mr. Fenner,
<Mornin' Bob>
Robert Jack here again. Thank you very much for your e-mail. "Boz" seems to have stabilized, although his sight has gotten worse. Without knowing what to do, I gave him a 15 minute freshwater bath at 10:30 this morning.
<I could use one of these... to wake up>
I could see the whitish silk coming off of him, which leads me to believe that he is suffering from Velvet or Ich. (It was thought that my Flame Angel died from Velvet.)
<... could be... or not>
As I mentioned last night, he hates the net and is usually extremely difficult to catch, yet I was able to trap him with absolutely no problem. He kept swimming into different obstacles,( heater, powerhead, etc.), one of the reasons I believe his sight has worsened. Tonight I noticed that once again he was staying inside a cave that was on the other side of the tank from where the anemone is. Then it hit me!! The 150 watt metal halide light was bothering his eyes. I gave him another 15 minute bath at 10:30 tonight and when I put him back into the tank, next to the anemone, I turned the light off and put a towel over that end of the tank to eliminate as much light infiltration as possible.
<Be careful re heat/fire...>
He's still there an hour and a half later, so we'll see if this helps.
Now for a couple of questions regarding your responses to my earlier e-mail.
1) I take it that you don't want to hazard a guess as to why he is turning a bluish colour
<As stated... this can/does happen>
2) Tank is too small??? I started this addiction with a 10 gallon tank with a 4 Striped Damsel, a Blue Damsel, and my Maroon Clownfish, I never had any problems what so ever.
<Unusual...>
My 33 gallon had the Flame Angel, Blue Damsel, Maroon Clownfish, and the Bubbletip, and its just this past week that everything is coming apart on me. Some people say one fish per 10 gallons,
others say one inch, (excluding the tail) per 4 gallons. Who is a newby like myself suppose to believe?
<... take a look in the wild, others experiences... about one cubic inch of fish life per five gallons is about prime>
3) Alright already I get it. Rally is s**t. Once again, what am I suppose to do when it was recommended by a pet store I trusted. What else is there to treat for Velvet without harming the other tank inhabitants?
<... Investigate... discern the facts... from opinion. What are the new Iraqi army, police? Who pays them? They're collaborators... You were "sold" a bill of goods... Study, think for yourself.>
Once again, I thank you for taking the time to 'listen to me' and advising me. I don't want to lose my "Boz" and am willing to try anything to bring him back to his happy, healthy, and playful self.
                                                             BOB  
<Good luck, life. Bob Fenner>

Vertical clownfish   1/10/06
Hi,
I have read your site thoroughly but still cant find an answer so was hoping you can help.
I have had 2 clownfish for a week now and now one of them is swimming vertically head pointing upwards, I cant see any spots or bulgy eyes or any other disability so was wondering why its doing this?
<Many possibilities>
the other one pokes it every now and then but it doesn't seem bothered. I have recently put a new LED light that has daylight and moonlight options into the lid. could this have anything to do with it?
<Highly unlikely. Most common might be genetic, nutritional anomalies. Bob Fenner>
thank you for your time
Vicki