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Sponge Growth on Elegance Coral -- 04/30/07 <Hello James Brown! Mich here'¦ and I feel good! Sorry, I couldn't resist.> About 2 months ago I notice a white sponge growing on the outside shell of my Elegance Coral. <OK.> It has now completely covered the top and bottom of the shell and looks like it might be growing inside. <Is the Elegance opening fully? Does the sponge seem to be interfering with the overall happiness of the coral? If so, then remove the sponge, if not, then you may want to let it be.> I'm thinking it might be time to pull the Elegance out and expose to the air to kill the sponge. <I would not do this. If you want to remove the sponge I would do so manually while underwater and collect the pieces and discard them outside of the system. Dying sponges can create real problems, exposing them to air and replacing in your system is unwise in my opinion.> Have not done it yet because the coral is epoxied to a piece of live rock. Should I get rid of the sponge or leave it alone? <I would leave it alone unless the Elegance is showing signs of stress.> Thanks - Jim <You're welcome! Mich>
Hi...question about elegance. NNS 2/26/07 Hi, my
name is RX. <Like the prescription> I have a lot of trouble with
my LFS... <space> they have been selling me corals and fish which
lots of problem...I dun <done?> practice dips because it is a
relatively unknown practice here in my country. <Oooh> I am from
Singapore and here they dun even heard of coral dips...they just throw
corals away if they are infected...bad practice. <Agreed> My tank
is 50 gallons...used to have a blue tang, coral tang, hammer coral and
finger coral. But they all died, due to diseases. Right now my tank
remained: 4 damsels 1 Goniopora 1 star polyp 1 button polyp 1 mushroom
1 crocea clam 2 slugs 1 boxer shrimp 1 cleaner shrimp Nitrite, ammonia
both is at zero level. PH 8.3 Nitrate at 5ppm Water quality is fine,
with skimmer. Water dechlorinated. Temperature at 27degrees C I am
planning to add another skimmer soon. I have some algae growing on the
seabed and an 8cm DSB make up of layers of substrates. One layer of
mixed sand (of all sizes) at the bottom with another layer of coral
chips next on top. And three more layers of sand (different sizes) with
the finest sand on top I buried my elegance deep into the sand and it
is protected from current by the live rocks. <Is how this species is
found... more often in muck than sand... in the wild> I have 4 T5
lights. 3 10k lights and 1 actinic light. Elegance is below the actinic
light. All my corals are doing very well now. Because after the demise
of my tang and others. I have been adding beneficial bacteria and doing
water changes. I haven't been feeling my fishes so often to improve
water quality. And one day, my clam dropped down from the
rock...twice...gosh...it hurts u know. I not sure if it hurt the
elegance because it is just on top of it... <Yikes> Until now
elegance has not been showing her beauty...she just remains closed. It
had been 2 days plus. I took it out of the water to smell it... Some
portion got a bit of bad smell. just like a bad breath. It smells just
like when my hammer got infested. I am really worried...what should I
do ? <Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegcordisfaqs.htm and the linked
files above> I am planning to do a coral dip using Seachem's
reef dip. <Good choice> What I guess is that it is injured and
bacteria in the water might be decomposing it, causing it to be unable
to recover on its own. Is it possible? <Yes> Or some bad bacteria
maybe infesting the wounds... <This too> This is just what I
think from a scientific point of view. Should I quarantine it? Or just
do a dip once in while and observe it? <I would do this latter> I
can't set up a hospital tank due to the lack of light and I am
afraid that the poor condition of the hospital tank may not be able to
help. <I agree> And I once did a crazy experiment with my star
polyps and hammer by doing a quick freshwater rinse and then dipping
into saltwater with methyl blue when they had that weird similar
smell... <Yes... produce detectable chemicals when stressed...>
The star polyp survives and recovers on it's own. Up till today it
is still growing bigger. And the hammer stopped producing mucus but it
rot in its skeleton. I dump it after 2 days of observations. And my
Elegance, up till now, haven't been opening but it doesn't
release any mucus or weird substances till now... :) I pray for its
survival. I just check on it and the smell is still there. <Real
good. Bob Fenner> Decline of An Elegance Coral? 3/30/06 Scott, <Scott here! Sorry for the delay in the reply.> Thank you very much for your quick response. I was kind of wondering if the 20k bulbs might be an issue, but if they do turn out to be then I may slowly switch them out for 10k. I have actually been more concerned about how deep the 175 watt bulbs will be able to penetrate vs. 400 watt. What do you think? <They'll be fine for most corals in a 24" deep tank, IMO.> One other quick question about a Elegance coral I have. I also have a 46 gallon bowfront tank with great water quality and everything else doing spectacular but my Elegance. When I first got it for the first couple of weeks it opened up nicely but since then over about a months time it seems to be slowly shrinking and opening less and less. It doesn't show any other signs of stress other then it keeps getting smaller and opens less and less. For about a week it would blow up like a balloon during the day, which I thought was a little abnormal also. I did read that it is good to target feed Elegance, which I wasn't doing for the first month and tried to start doing a week ago but only seemed to worsen its condition. Also, a friend of mine has beautiful large Elegance that he never target feeds and is doing wonderful. Any ideas or suggestions about what I could do to hopefully improve it condition? Is it savable or it slowly dying? Thanks again, your feedback very very helpful Jason <Well, Jason, these corals really do benefit from directed feeding. They are also susceptible to allelopathic "attacks" from other corals in your system, so they are really best suited for a monospecific display, as the only coral in residence. Feed them small foods (less than 1/4" in size) and keep the water quality high. Do make use of the vast resources here on WWM regarding the care of this coral. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Corals/Elegance Coral ... beh., gen. 3/16/06 Bob, <James today. Bob is bored to death in Hawaii> <<Heeee! Am not. RMF>> Yesterday we purchased a green w/purple tips elegance coral from the LFS. It was healthy looking in the LFS tank, with tentacles all open/out, mouth small. I spent a good hour yesterday acclimating it to the new tank. Our tank is an established several year old 150gal, MH 250/actinic 40, with good water flow, good parameters ; nitrate low, ph=8.3, Ca 410, temp =82. This morning the coral tentacles are retracted. We are keeping it in a low-lit <Do like moderate light.> portion of the tank, on the bottom where there is less flow and will do a water change and feed it. <I wouldn't feed until it is acclimated well.> I have a few days before the LFS will say, sorry bud...you bought it, too late. Do you have any advice on what to look for or do in the next 48hrs to get our new specimen to open up and be happy? Has this coral gotten so hard to care for that I should send it back today? <I'd make sure you place it on a soft/fine substrate. Rougher substrate can/will irritate the fleshy underside of the coral. Also read here for additional info. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm James (Salty Dog)> Jim in Va Catalaphyllia jardinei Hi all, I have been reading about the
poor survivability of elegance corals. Anthony's book suggests to
leave them alone until we can be assured of getting better quality
specimens. In the May 2002 FAMA Julian Sprung suggests that it is a
pathogenic bacteria infection that is the main cause of the problems,
and treating with the two below antibiotics will cure the
problem. <You may well want to see the "continuing
discussion" re this species twixt Jules and Eric Borneman in the
August 02 FAMA> So (1) do you agree with his idea to treat the coral
with Doxycycline or Nitrofurazone if it begins to waist away? <Not
IMO/E... much better to utilize the dip/bath procedure on arrival
detailed on our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm and
in places in the linked FAQs files beyond> (2) I would like to buy
one but have resisted due to all the bad "press", where do
you get these antibiotics, my LFS has no idea. <Furan
compounds are still sold in the ornamental aquatics trade (Look for a
shop that carries Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Aquatronics, Argent Labs...
lines. Doxycycline can be purchased over the Net... or through a M.D.
or Vet.> Thanks Larry <I will forward your query to Anthony and
Steve as well. Bob Fenner> Elegance Coral Hi, Steven Pro, how are you? <Not too bad.
How are you?> My elegant is not doing well. I just got back from LA
for Thanksgiving. I only went away one day. I don't know if it is
possible to get you out to my place in La Mesa (near Lake Murray) to
take a look to see what can possibly be going on and is there anything
I can still do for it. <I am out in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.> Or
maybe if you have a place at your place that you can try to raise it
back to health. <There is probably nothing you, I, or anyone could
do.> The store I bought from had it under 175 watt MH's at mid
tank, about 12 inches below water surface. <That was its first
problem. They should always be kept on the sand under low to moderate
lighting.> The owner said he had it for 3 weeks, and it did look
healthy. <They generally do. One of the bad things about these
corals is they survive long enough to give the hobbyist false hope.>
Like you said damage can be done at anytime, but I just can't
believe with calcium reactor keeping Alk/pH in check, that it can't
make a recovery from whatever the damage. <Many Elegance has
perished in recent years in the hands of very experienced keepers with
well maintained tanks. It is the coral, its particular needs, and the
care it received previously that are usually the problem. Never buy an
Elegance that has been perched up on liverock, never place it on rock
yourself, give it low to moderate amounts of water movement and
lighting, and hope for the best.> Something else have to be the
problem that's causing it to not improving. <Not really> I
did find the cleaner shrimp (one-I assume is the same one), that was
picking on it when I walk in the door today. <I would describe the
behavior as opportunistic and not attacking. It is feeding on necrotic
tissue, not attacking healthy tissue.> The cleaner shrimp I got is
the kind that have 2 red stripe and one white strip in between the 2
red strips. So I immediately fed them and my fish and I am planning on
feed the shrimps everyday if I can, and hope it stays away. I
wasn't successful on catching it today. I always only see one
shrimp picking on it at one time, so I assume it's the same one and
maybe it developed a taste for it. Now after they all ate, the shrimps
went in hiding. I do have a 10 gallon empty tank (no fish/shrimp), but
there is water, live rock, and some Caulerpa with two 8 watts
fluorescents on it. It used to be seahorse tank. One bulb is regular
fluorescent (which doesn't help much with Caulerpa growth), and the
other one is a Aqua-glow bulb (which Caulerpa likes). But, due to busy
schedule at work, I sent the horses away. It does still get water
change and power head still running, but no calcium reactor. It has a
drop in air pump powered skimmer, which was turned off since no more
seahorses are in it. If necessary, I can rinse old sand from my old 50
gallon and make a few inches deep sand bed for Elegance. I will have to
buy another Aqua-glow bulb, I think if I want to put elegance in that
tank. What do you think? <It might be best to quarantine this
specimen now for fear of wasting away in your display.> I don't
even know if you are in San Diego. I figure if you are partner with Bob
Fenner, you probably close by. <Actually the other side of the
country, The beauty of the internet.> But I could be wrong. If you
can come check it out, I would really, really appreciate it. If
possible perhaps this weekend. I don't know how long the coral will
last. Probably no more than 5 days to 1 week. Please let me know ASAP.
My cell number is 619-xxx-xxxx. If you are in town, I can go pick you
up, if you don't feel like driving. I just hate to see things die
on me. <I understand.> Thanks in advance. Hope to hear from you
very soon. Sincerely, George <Sorry about your coral. On a positive
side, our conversations have spurred me to begin an article discussing
Elegance corals. Best of luck to you! -Steven Pro> Bloated Puffy Elegance Body Hi Bob, <Anthony Calfo in your
service> Greetings from Malaysia. <and a kind welcome to you from
America, fellow reef enthusiast!> Right I've ran through your
FAQ about Elegance Coral and could not find any answer to my problem.
My tank's condition is perfect for Elegance as per your articles on
how one should keep them and the tank condition needed for it to
survive. Here's the wee problem. The gorgeous green with pink tip
fella did fine for the first 2 weeks... opened up proudly displaying
its full splendour of vibrant colour. Then I think my bird wrasse
knocked it down to the substrate accidentally one day (the
Elegance's placed in mid section horizontally on a rock). <we
may have our first problem here, my friend. Elegance coral are
collected as free-living specimens (and have a conical skeleton) or as
sessile fixed denizens (wall shaped skeletons sawn off of the reef
proper). Most Elegance are collected as free-living individuals and
should never be placed on rock. They will die in time from abraded
tissue (polyps cycles) for having been placed on the rockwork. Even if
you have a specimen that was collected from rock, it can be fatal for
any LPS to take a fall and sustain torn tissue.> I got home from
work and it was on the bottom of the tank between other rocks in 45
degrees positioning. Still it's opened fully with extended
tentacles. Put it back to its original location. No signs of damage.
Two days gone by and I noticed at the bottom of its tentacles,
there're white stringy things coming out from its meat (is that how
you call it?) and they're like attached to the meat itself.
<yes... mesenterial filaments. Stress induced. Not a good sign, but
not fatal either. Very noxious to other corals though> I know they
are the inner parts of the coral that came out. Only parts of the coral
has this clumps of white stringy things at the base of the tentacles.
The rest opens up as normal. Following day, it started to close up and
the stringy things are still there. This time with kind of like jelly
thing sticking around the stringy clumps. I think it could be detritus
from the water that got stuck to the sticky slimy white stringy things.
<yes... or bacteria and the beginnings of a necrotic infection. Try
to maintain good strong random turbulent water flow> Next day it
opened up again... same condition with white slimy stringy things and
jelly like stuff around these clumps. This time the coral opens up
really large... it's like an inflated puffy balloon... really huge,
without the tentacles extending. As day goes by, it shrinks and bloated
over and over again in a days cycle. Tissue is not receding, just
bloated with un-extended, "un-filled" tentacles,
<yes...defensive, not feeding strategy> with clumps of white
stringy things at the base of some tentacles, and jelly like things
around it. Phew! there you go. That's the problem. Any idea
what's wrong with this fella? <just trying to heal> Its body
is so bloated and puffy now as I'm typing this. Looks like a big
huge obese man with tiny short little very thin arms and legs. <you
mean it looks like I will look in another 15 years of eating fatty
foods?> Thanks a mill...Cheers...Steve <best regards,
Anthony> Elegance coral and regrowth 9/29/03 Hey Guys!!! Let me start by saying THANK YOU for such a great website and such great information. I think I can say for all of us out here that your website is INVALUABLE!! I am pretty new to this hobby, about 4 months, and I couldn't have accomplished what I have without you guys. <thanks kindly... do share your wisdom in kind> OK, Here's what I have for you today. I have a Catalaphyllia jardinei (?sp?) <Catalaphyllia jardinei> that my girlfriend bought me for a present. Unfortunately it is starting to slowly waste away. <if you've had it for more than a few weeks... could be nutrition. They need fed almost daily... at least several times weekly with finely minced meaty foods> It is secreting a lot of mucus and the brown jelly stuff. <Ughh... a necrotic infection. This like all new livestock should have been quarantined. The brown jelly is highly contagious to other corals> Per your website and everything else I have read, I put it in my hospital tank and gave it an Iodide bath, Cause Iodine is toxic right? <Ahhh... used properly, it is anti-septic/medicinal so-to-speak> I also supplement with SeaChem's Reef Plus, and Reef complete so it is getting some Vitamin C also. I have read some people will cycle antibiotics also. Is this worth a shot and if so, which one or ones should I use? And is there anything I can do to save my precious present? <tetracycline has been used in bare-bottoms QT tanks with some success at mfg dose strength> Also, if it starts to recover, will it regrow over the spaces where the skeleton is showing through or not? I sure hope so. <it can indeed in time> She is the one with the pink tentacles with the purple tips. I had her at the bottom of my 40 gallon breeder in lower light with low water flow also. I heard from your website this is the best placement. <agreed... although not too low of flow. 10X tank turnover is the minimum> Oh, she was also placed on her back with tentacles toward the light too. This is correct right? <correcto> My tank parameters are: pH 8.5,sg 1.025, temp 79F, calcium 450, Nitrates 0, Nitrites 0, and ammonia 0, phosphates .02. You guys have taught me well!!! (I hope so anyway! Hahahha!) <all good... although the Calcium does not need to be that high... wane lower is Alk is flat> I change 5% of the water twice a week also. I think this really helps with my 40 gallon breeder. Agreed, my friend> It's so easy and fast too!!!! Thanks for all your help guys. I know you guys get this question a lot, but everything that I read, and I read all of the responses and questions, didn't really hit on my question. Thanks again guys. Will be in touch. Oh yeah, I am attaching a picture so you guys can see what your knowledge has helped me to create. <thanks kindly... could not open the zip file though. Please send pics as web-sized jpegs. Thanks kindly, Anthony> Spewing elegance 09/09/03 Hey crew! <Hi Ryan> I just bought an elegance coral yesterday and it seems to be doing fine except that it is excreting a white cloudy substance every couple of min... I know that other corals and inverts will excrete poison when stressed but I really need to know from somebody who knows more about them ....thanks Ryan <Well Ryan, lots to read, start here: www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm hopefully your animal will be ok. Unfortunately, elegance are no longer the easy to keep animals they once were. The stocks of hardy, shallow water animals have been harvested, and the animals coming in now are from much deeper water, and melting down under reef lighting, so speaks the voice of experience. Good luck, and keep us informed, PF> Elegance coral 09/04/03 <Hi Vance, PF with you today> Hello WetWeb, I have a question about elegant coral, but first the data. I have a 125 gallon tank that has been up for about 6 months. We upgraded from the 55 gallon tank that was being out grown. The Set up is, two 175 watt MH, 2 160 watt VHO actinic for lighting. 100 lbs of live rock and a 2-3 inch live sand bed. We have appx a steady 1600 gallon/per hour flow rate from a combination multiple powerheads. A 55 gallon refugium for filtering and micro shrimp production. The system has been very stable. 1.023 - .024 sg, 8.2 -8.4 ph, Ca 342ppm. 0 nitrites and Ammonia and Nitrates around 10 ppm. I bought an elegant coral from my LFS that I knew was going to die if it was left in the store. It is about 12 inches in length and had already started to recede about 1 and a half inches. I read the article on your site about elegant corals. I placed it in the tank as instructed by the article, on its back with the mouths pointed up. It is in a moderate current, enough to gently move the tentacles, and it is very low in the tank. It is a purple tip, thus it is a deep water elegant coral. I do not see signs of brown jelly, but the 1.5 inches was covered with a white skin like film. I bought this coral knowing that it would be difficult to save because of it's loss of tissue, but I really do not want to watch it just die off slowly. We are using the malachite green dip that this site recommended to another with a elegant coral receding, but have not seen an improvement thus far. Is there anything that I can do to try to save it? Thank you, Vance <Unfortunately Vance, I recently purchased an elegance that did the same thing, and was unable to save it. You might try an iodine dip, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/iodfaqs.htm. While no one has seen an elegance skeleton produce an anthocauli (hope I spelled that one right), I'm keeping mine in my tank, as no one had seen a Trachyphyllia do that till last year either. You might also want to shade the coral, in talking to Steven Pro, he theorized it might be a reaction to the tank lights. I know the store I purchased mine from kept theirs under actinics only, and when I came back 3 weeks later, the other 2 for sale were still alive. Good luck, PF> Elegance Coral Decline and Royal Gramma Demise Hi WetWeb Crew, >Hola, Manny. I'm new to the hobby (3 months), but I have been reading articles and FAQs on your site from the start. I have spent hours on your site, but still want some direct advice. >Alright, I'll do my best. Tank info: 55G with appropriately sized wet/dry, skimmer, UV sterilizer, 130 watts of PC, and two power heads. 40 lbs. of rock a .5 to 2 inch (depending on place) sand bed, mushrooms, leathers, sun polyps, and ELEGANCE coral. Some hermits, an arrow crab, some snails, peppermints, and two cleaner shrimp. I purchased the whole set up, including all corals and rock, for $600 (not bad). >Pretty good deal, yeah. So the whole system is really more like 8 months old, including the corals. The owner had no testing equipment, not even a hydrometer...he relied on weekly water changes with store bought salt water and he NEVER fed the corals. >Eek! So everything in the tank was healthy and hardy. Questions: 1. The elegance coral, which I have been feeding shrimp to for the last three months and which improved since I bought it, recently started becoming more transparent at the base of some polyps...I can even see the white skeleton showing through the body of the polyp. It is not water quality, unless a slight and quickly corrected nitrate spike of 40ppm could do it. >High nitrates can cause a decline, yes. But what I'm not clear on is whether or not the elegance was already in the tank with the leathers, from the get go, so to speak. It is not current because the head with the lowest and no direct current looks almost as bad as the head that gets hit by the return and worse than the head that gets moderate current. Could it be calcium??? >I would tend to see low calcium levels being expressed in a lack of growth, but it could indeed be a factor. You should have calcium levels up around 400-450ppm. I have a test on the way to me. Incidentally, your FAQs have denied this as a cause, but I recently added the shrimp, everything else has been there for months. Could it be too much light? No change in that recently. HELP! >Lighting...could be, but my money's more on allelopathy with those leathers. 2. I have had bad luck with fish. My two ocellaris clowns died of Ich because I didn't act fast enough or well enough with copper and my fresh water dips came too late. I ordered a yellow tang that was practically DOA. I now have a Firefish, doing great, and a royal Gramma, DYING!!! They both came with either Amyloodinium or some kind of infection on the skin. I treated with copper and antibiotic and pH temp adjusted freshwater dips for the Gramma only twice...I don't think he can take it now. His tail half rotted, but that cleared up and he started looking better all around, but now he won't eat and he just sits upright at the bottom of the QT (like at night) coughing now and then. He looks weak...should I dip him again and risk killing him, like my clowns, or should I just hope? Any ideas on getting him to at least eat? I've tried frozen brine shrimp.. he used to love it. >I wouldn't dip him again, I think that would be too stressful. I am not normally a proponent, but many folks swear that garlic increases appetite, you may want to try it. Also, nix the brine shrimp--nutritionally deficit. A much better choice is Mysis shrimp. Try fresh Mysis *if* you can get it (I know I can from a supplier locally), but I know that freshly cultured can be problematic. I'm assuming that you're testing your q/t water religiously, and that ALL levels are at zero readings. I would reduce lighting on him, keep the place a bit dim, try the garlic (some folks will spend lots of money on the extracts--since I've never used it I can't tell you if that is the way to go or if you can just make your own by crushing garlic), the Mysis, and keep treating him with a broad spectrum antibiotic. My own preference is for Spectrogram, both gram positive and negative antibiotic. THANKS FOR THE HELP AND THE GREAT SITE! Manny >You're very welcome, and if you have a place you can remove the Elegance coral to, possibly in q/t, I would try that and see if it improves. I will also recommend you get a good book on corals, the vote seems to go for Eric Borneman's book...can't recollect the name, though, but it should be easy enough to find on site. Good luck! Marina
Elegance problem Hi! I have a
problem. My elegance, purple tipped, was doing wonderfully
until one of my fish started nipping at him. I removed the
fish but the elegance has stayed sucked in in the middle where I saw
the fish nip at him. Now other fish, a yellow tang, has
begun to pass by and nip at him. I fear he will not
recover. I moved him a little higher on the rock as many of
my fish do not go there as much. Is there anything I can do
to help him heal? He's near the top of my 75 gallon
tank. Please help - I do not want to lose him. <Kara,
elegances can be fairly delicate. Moving him up was a wise idea but you
might also check on some of the discussion groups about elegance
corals. I seem to remember someone, I think Eric Borneman doing a study
on these corals. They are known to just begin having problems out of
the blue. I believe I read about this on www.fragexchange.com and
www.reefcentral.com. The coral will need stable water conditions and
good foods to recover but should recover if the nipping stops. MacL>
Catalaphyllia EMERGENCY Hi Bob!! Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for the advice and the services you provide online. Its great to see someone actually responding to emails coz I know a lot of message boards and FAQ's don't! Big Thanks! My Catalaphyllia elegance coral seemed to be doing okay lately. but One day all of a sudden when I came home, it looked terrible!! All my water parameters are good (except nitrates a little high but I'm working on that ~ 20mg/l). I have been feeding it Mysis shrimp, probably not as much as I should be .. last time I fed it was about 5 days ago. I've had the coral for approx a month and a half now and it seemed to be doing okay - It's had its ups and downs (when sometimes it didn't look as good) but its never been as bad as this. << Is there anything else you have changed recently? >> Here are some pictures, I apologize for them being so big .. I'm not 100% sure how to shrink them, u probably don't have to look through all of them (about 10 pictures) but I've included one picture of it when its looking healthy and 9 of it when its looking pretty bad. As you can see, some patchy parts are swollen while other patchy parts of it are all shriveled up. Some of the oral disks are swollen and almost see-through. http://photos.yahoo.com/catalaphyllia/ Its a fairly new tank. Other tank inhabitants are 2 clown fish, a tri colored damsel (not sure if that's what its called), a Radianthus anemone, leather coral, brain coral, Goniopora sp and a torch and daisy coral (I think that's what they're called - Euphyllias). Also, the coral is from Australia. (I'm located in Sydney) would you have any idea what could be the problem? I don't think its a lighting issue although I think it would like it better with better lighting. << Please describe your lighting set up. >> But I have had the coral for about 1 and a half months in the same conditions but its never been this bad before. << It makes me think it wasn't really thriving before, but just taking its time to get to this point. I would recommend moving the coral in the tank. Nothing to lose. Also, did you get it straight from the ocean, or did it come from a friend or a store. If the latter, I would be comparing your tank to what the previous tank was like. >> Thanks Wallace << Sorry I can't be of more help. Adam B. >> Help! regarding Elegance coral Hi there, I was looking for more info about Elegance coral when I come across the very informative discussion that you put up on the web . I would need some advice from you. I just bought a elegance coral today. I need to know where is the recommended placement in the tank. << Most people put them on their sand, right in the front bottom portion of their tank. >> When you mentioned horizontal placement , does it mean that the coral is to be lie flat on its cone skeleton.<< Well, it depends on what you think looks good, <<NO; Blunder-all>> but I like them facing up towards the light. >> Does this mean that if I place it on the substrate , it rest horizontally downward and its mouth is facing the front of tank? or is it supposed to be tilted at an angle? << I've seen them in the wild and in tanks facing right up to the light. This doesn't mean they need that, but I think that allows for the best photosynthesis. Either way feeding it every week or so will also help out. >> Also , is it true that elegance should not be placed near to Live rock ? << I don't believe that. They do live in sandy areas, but to me live rock is good for everything. >> For your advice pls. Thanks and Best Regards. Alex << Adam Blundell >> Elegance issues Hi Crew I have had an elegance coral for
about 6 months now. everything has been great with it until recently.
We have had 3 hurricanes in may area and the last 2 have caused power
outages. I had a generator going but it was only enough to run the
pumps on my 90 reef and 200 FOWLR, and run the lights some. I
didn't run the chiller and to my dismay the temp in the 90 reef
went to 85 The power was out for 2 days. a week after the power was
restored I noticed in the center branch of the 3 branch elegance some
of its tentacles missing, like they had been eaten? I then noticed the
same on the left branch. The left branch has regenerated its tentacles
but the center has deteriorated. much of the flesh has receded and
exposed the skeleton. the tissue left looks fine and healthy, but there
seems to be more exposed skeleton every day. the other branches seem
healthy. what should I do?? >>I would do nothing other than your
regular routine. Anything different will stress the coral more and it
sounds like the damage is done, so best leave it alone to heal. Also, I
am not aware of a branching elegance - perhaps what you have is
actually a hammer or a torch or a frogspawn. Rich>> Elegance corals Dear Bob I have a 200 gal reef tank that has been running for over a year. For light I am using 4 6 ft VHO's and two 250w 10000k halides. Filtration is 4inches of live sand with plenum, the best possible protein skimmer, and 57w U.V. Temp is 80F and I use calcium reactor. My question is; Why can't I keep a elegant coral alive. When I put one in the tank, no matter where, it comes out the first few days maybe 2 weeks but it then begins to slowly waste away staying withdrawn into the skeleton the just rotting apart. I am keeping Acroporas, clams, frogspawn, hammers, torch corals, Blastomussa and even a Pectinia but a elegant will die every time. No one has been able to answer this question even people who are very knowledgeable and have seen the tank. Some of these elegance corals have been doing well in other tanks for weeks but of course die in mine. James Lewis >> James, you are the "consumer" who broke the writer's back... and I thank you. Am going to move way-up my schedule for writing about Catalaphyllia (Elegance corals). Seems like only yesterday (because it was) that I was taking pictures at the Waikiki Aquarium of their specialized "Elegance Coral Tank". Let me describe this set-up for you (all). It had a few inches of fine sand, a bunch (really too many, I'd clear some so you could see the coral specimen) "grass" (in their case Thalassia hemprichii) a few fishes (a Phalaena goby, gorgeous green filefish, unid'ed rockfish of some sort), not much circulation, no added aeration, but bright light (the plants and algae were giving off obvious gas bubbles from the halides and sunlight (the roof is "missing")... and the specimen? It was alone, by itself, lying in the "mud/sand" horizontal on the bottom. Now, let me assure you, I've collected this (and other) Caryophyllid (the family of this, the Euphyllias like Frogspawn, hammer...) corals in the wild, and this is how all Elegance corals I've seen live: Horizontal, in relatively stagnant, grassy areas, with bright light, low circulation, with no other stinging celled animals around, in probably "high nutrient" settings. And how do aquarists by and large try to keep Catalaphyllias? In vertical orientations, with brisk, constant circulation, in almost nutrient-free water, with other aggressive stinging-celled animals... Now, does all this make more/better/any sense? These animals are being kept in barely to un-tolerable conditions. They don't live in environments like your other corals at all. The places where I've seen them live are more like wild conditions... Bob Fenner Elegance Coral decline Bob, I read your q/a in FFExpress, sporadically. But, I always learn something. My question is concerning the elegance coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei). I have one that looked great coming from the store and continued to look that way for about 2 weeks in my 75 gal. tank. After feeding it some frozen brine and silversides (the second time I fed it in the 2 weeks) it started to decline. It seemed to collapse then swell up around the edges and it hasn't extended it's tentacles much in a couple of weeks now. There is one area where it has pulled away from the skeleton. I checked today for an odor and it still smells healthy. Total of 4 weeks in tank. I subscribe to a couple of bulletin boards and posted a question concerning the elegance and almost immediately got a number of responses... all of them commenting that they either were, or had experienced this same problem. The elegance is supposed to be an easy coral, what is going on? Why are so many experienced aquarist having problems with this "easy" coral? Tank parameters: 75 gal 9 months old 0 nitrite 0 ammonia 8.1 - 8.2 ph <5 nitrate 140 lb Live Rock (Fiji and Old Florida) 85 lb Live sand (gulf of Mexico/ keys) Tank inhabitants Open brain coral -- doing great Torch coral -- doing great Flowerpot -- brought back from the brink of death Devil's hand -- doing great elegance -- mentioned above Green star polyps -- doing great Yellow polyps -- doing great Regular assortment of snails and hermits Skunk cleaner shrimp coral banded shrimp sally lightfoot crab Foxface Rabbitfish Naso Tang (I know he will outgrow this tank, by that time I'll have a 180 ready for him) Psychedelic Mandarin -- fat and sassy any idea's? Thank you, Wayne Pierce >> Hey Wayne, thanks for writing. Yours may be the final goosing I need to finally get my family Caryophylliidae, Stony Corals We love and hate article finished. Catalaphyllias/Elegance corals are NOT easy to keep. One more time on their requirements:1) Not clean water. They live mostly in inner lagoons and reef flats with high nutrient levels... in the mud...2) Horizontal orientation... Not vertical or on an angle as in NOT on an incline of live rock. They live in the mud.3) Not endlessly blasted by current coming from one (linear) direction. Where do they live in the wild? In the mud, where it's pretty calm. There's more, but you get my point. What's more I'm amazed that more folks in the trade and hobby don't 'fess up about these gorgeous corals. Historically they don't do much better than the notorious Poritid family genus Goniopora... But you did by your own admission, bring one of these (flowerpot) corals back from the brink. Maybe you can have the same success with the Elegance. Do you have another system or even a sump you can make into an algae or turtle grass and elegance habitat? Do you mind a few tens of ppm nitrate there? Bob Fenner Dear Bob, Thank you so much for the info about the Catalaphyllia. I promised myself when I started my reef tank that I would do my best not to kill any animals. The dealer accepted the elegance back without any problem. I am happy that you were available in time to save the animal with the most up to date information about them. Everything else in the tank seems to be doing fine. Sincerely, Catherine Cyko >> Outstanding. And a nod of the pet-fish hat to you for your conscientiousness and quick action. Bob Fenner Dear Bob, I'm having a problem with an elegance coral that I purchased recently. It seems to have been raised in half of an old clam shell or maybe it just grew that way, I don't know, but it's approximately 7 inches across not counting the curves. It never did open up fully when I placed it in the tank giving it plenty of room. We bought it locally from a reputable dealer and didn't travel but 30 minutes to bring it home. After about a week in the bottom of the tank, in moderate current and full light, a small portion of the animal at the far end seems to be falling out of it's skeleton. The rest of the animal stays pretty well withdrawn throughout the day and night now. I've placed it back in the quarantine tank. What is going on with this critter? We have a 125 gallon reef tank of R/O water with a skimmer, metal halides with two blue actinics set up 8 inches off the top of the tank with fans blowing through and a couple of power heads at either end of the tank. We put 190 lbs of cured and encrusted Marshall, Fiji and Tonga rock in it 6 weeks ago and never got a spike and we were told by several trustworthy shop owners that we may never get a spike. So we started stocking the tank. We have a Ritteri anemone with 2 Percula clowns, 5 green and 2 blue Chromis, 2 rock anemones, 4 assorted small leather corals, one Tridacnid maxima, a small bubble coral, a couple of open brains, 5 or 6 small mushroom corals, one red tree sponge, some Zoanthids and a pulsing xenia, an assortment of snails that I believe are getting stung by the anemones, a half dozen small hermit crabs, and I've seen at least one bristle worm. I try to keep the soft corals down stream from the hard corals. Temperature gets up to 80 degrees during the day and cools to 76-78 at night. ph fluctuates between 8.0 and 8.3. The calcium was staying right around 450 to 495 mg/l until the other evening when it dropped to about 345 mg/l. I have a drip of calcium hydroxide at night and dose with Seachem's Marine Buffer every other day. Alkalinity has averaged at 3.5 to 4 meg/l over the last several weeks. Specific gravity is 1.025, no ammonia, nitrites, nitrates or phosphates. Could it be that this animal is splitting it's colony and do I need to provide some sort of home for the orphan? Your prompt response is greatly appreciated, Catherine Cyko >> Catherine, tomorrow I am going to write and send you a draft (to review and edit if you don't mind) re Catalaphyllia... this coral animal is a real heartbreak... not suitable for most reef set-ups... You will soon realize that it's natural history calls for being in horizontal settings (not vertical), in mud, in high organic nutrient concentrations, with no other stinging celled life about... I promise to send along my pending article on this family Caryophylliidae genus... sorry to be so cynical, it's just that so many of these Elegance Corals are lost due to... what? A lack of disclosure? A general lack of understanding of their needs? Anyhow, will send in a day or so. Bob Fenner, who says, in the meanwhile, if you can, move the specimen to a dirty tank with vascular grasses, like Turtle Grass (Thalassia) by itself... with high nitrates, phosphate... >> Elegance corals Dear Bob I have a 200 gal reef tank that has been running for over a year. For light I am using 4 6 ft VHO's and two 250w 10000k halides. Filtration is 4inches of live sand with plenum, the best possible protein skimmer, and 57w U.V. Temp is 80F and I use calcium reactor. My question is; Why cant I keep a elegant coral alive. When I put one in the tank, no matter where, it comes out the first few days maybe 2 weeks but it then begins to slowly waste away staying withdrawn into the skeleton the just rotting apart. I am keeping Acroporas, clams, frogspawn, hammers, torch corals, Blastomussa and even a Pectinia but a elegant will die every time. No one has been able to answer this question even people who are very knowledgeable and have seen the tank. Some of these elegance corals have been doing well in other tanks for weeks but of course die in mine. James Lewis >> James, you are the "consumer" who broke the writer's back... and I thank you. Am going to move way-up my schedule for writing about Catalaphyllia (Elegance corals). Seems like only yesterday (because it was) that I was taking pictures at the Waikiki Aquarium of their specialized "Elegance Coral Tank". Let me describe this set-up for you (all). It had a few inches of fine sand, a bunch (really too many, I'd clear some so you could see the coral specimen) "grass" (in their case Thalassia hemprichii) a few fishes (a Phalaena goby, gorgeous green filefish, unid'ed rockfish of some sort), not much circulation, no added aeration, but bright light (the plants and algae were giving off obvious gas bubbles from the halides and sunlight (the roof is "missing")... and the specimen? It was alone, by itself, lying in the "mud/sand" horizontal on the bottom. Now, let me assure you, I've collected this (and other) Caryophyllid (the family of this, the Euphyllias like Frogspawn, hammer...) corals in the wild, and this is how all Elegance corals I've seen live: Horizontal, in relatively stagnant, grassy areas, with bright light, low circulation, with no other stinging celled animals around, in probably "high nutrient" settings. And how do aquarists by and large try to keep Catalaphyllias? In vertical orientations, with brisk, constant circulation, in almost nutrient-free water, with other aggressive stinging-celled animals... Now, does all this make more/better/any sense? These animals are being kept in barely to un-tolerable conditions. They don't live in environments like your other corals at all. The places where I've seen them live are more like wild conditions... Bob Fenner Question: I have a short tentacle elegance coral that was
beautiful for the first month I had it. Then for no apparent reason it
would not fully open to is full potential. It is not retracting from
the skeleton, and my water quality is unchanged. With calcium reactor,
ph monitor, controller, Berlin skimmer, chiller, wave makers, chemistry
is always good, and lighting is metal halide. I religiously do a water
change weekly. I have moved it, gave it an iodine bath and regardless
of what I try it still does not want to extend all the way out. Any
suggestions?? Question: Bob - Read your book and really enjoyed it,
especially the price (about half the going rate for marine fishkeeping
manuals). I really appreciated the detailed advice on setup. My
question relates to an observation and personal experience I have had
with Elegance corals. I currently maintain three reef tanks containing
a wide variety of corals and fish. I have had no real difficulty
maintaining any corals including SPS corals in my tanks except for
Elegance corals. I have made four attempts in the last 18 months with
these corals and lost them all to rapid and virulent (bacterial)
attack. Within days, the flesh begins to disintegrate into a brown
jelly. I thought maybe it was just me or my tanks, except that I
maintain several other LPS species with no problems (hammer, bubble,
torch, fox, long tentacle plate, cup, etc). In addition, I have spoken
personally and on the net with over a dozen others who all report the
same experience with this coral and we have obtained them from a
variety of sources. Is there a problem with this species or its
collection? I have heard the U.K. has banned its importation as an
endangered species. I personally will not attempt this coral again
until I find a solution. Can you help. My tanks are all well aged - 18
months with 0 ammonia and nitrite, nitrate is always less than 2 ppt,
Ph runs from about 8.3 to 7.8 using RDP in the sump with live sand and
live rock. Calcium and Iodine are supplemented twice a week and water
changes of 10% a week. I have tried this coral in many different
settings in my tanks regarding light and water flow with the same sad
result. I can provide further details on my setup if you wish, but I do
not believe it is due to conditions in my tanks. Elegance Corals Hi Bob, I purchased a elegance coral weeks
ago and he was doing great until my flame angel decided that he would
be fun to pick at. The short version is that the angel now has another
home and I have a new coral. The problem is the elegance closed up for
several days after the flame was gone. Someone suggested an iodine dip
which we did using your recipe out of your book. We dipped him for ten
minutes and then returned him to the main tank. A week has gone by and
he still hasn't opened up. He is all puffy and shows some signs of
his original color but not much. Is it too late? Or by leaving him in
the tank do I run the risk of hurting some of my other corals (brains,
hammer, pagoda, bubble, galaxy, elephant ear, frogspawn, pulsing xenia,
leather)? Now one else in the tank seems to be effected by the elegance
being closed. Once again as always thanks so much for your help!! Brian
>> Hmm, this is tough to "get my hands around"... w/o
seeing the specimen. I would shy on the conservative side here, and
probably just wait out and see whether this specimen will rally. Please
take a re-read of what little I know/have to say re Caryophylliids and
Elegance Coral in particular posted on the site: Home Page ... and
"try to hang in there"... these can be slowly recovering, and
chimerical species. Bob Fenner Yet another question about Elegance corals Dear Bob, I read you recent article in the March issue of FAMA and as result I have a few questions. Also I have some question regarding conditions I am observing in my elegance. I have had my Elegance for about five weeks, for the first three the coral was open a appeared to be healthy. For the last two the coral has been closed up, it is not retracted in it's skeleton or pulling away from the skeleton. It is very puffy and closed so that you cannot see its beautiful green color. I had fed it shrimp when it was open and it was about half way down in my tank under direct light. I have tried moving it to different locations that were both less and more intense lighting without success. I have noticed that there is white stringy stuff coming out of the area where the flesh meets the bone. There are a few spots where it is coming out of the flesh only. Also upon very close inspection I have seen two "bugs" on it. In both cases the bugs were also at the junction of the flesh and bone. The bugs were less than 1mm in size and about the same color as the bone. I was only able to see them where they were moving. I tried the Malachite Green dip that you recommend, two nights ago. Today the coral was open more and for longer. I also noticed that it is expelling black stuff from it's mouths, but the stringy stuff is still there. My tank is a 75 with 4x96W PC's. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phos are all 0, Calcium 440-460, Alk 7.0 dKH, Temp 79-80. I dose Kalk, Iodine, Molybdenum, Strontium. My skimmer is a Aqua C Remora. I have not run it for the last two weeks trying to get the nutrient levels up, except for about an hour a day to aerate the water. All other corals (green open brain, moon, button, xenia, polyps, mushrooms) as well as my clams are doing great. 1) What is causing my Elegance to close up? And how can I fix it? <Hard to ascertain... maybe the "bugs" you mention, perhaps just cumulative insults from collection, handling, transport from the wild... low alkalinity? I would switch out from the Kalk (Ca(OH)2) to Calcium Chloride to raise the dKH to at least 9, to avoid precipitating out the latter/alkalinity> 2) What is the white stringy stuff, and how can I fix it? <A negative reaction to "something" in the way of stimuli, or lack of "something(s)" positive... How to fix? Remove negative's), add positive's)... I would stop moving the animal to find better circulation, light, nutrient circumstances... probably becoming more of a negative.> 3) Are the bugs good or bad? If bad how can I get rid of them? <Probably bad to inconsequential... I would eliminate them through a rinse in a pH and alkalinity (just baking soda... about a tsp. per gallon) bath <Plus five drops of iodine supplement solution>... let the specimen soak for ten minutes and shake them gently off if you can> 4) In your article under conditions you state that the light should be Low-to medium intensity. The you say that in Nature and in the Waikiki Aquarium that the elegance in under bright light. I am a little confused as to which light I should try to provide? <Sorry for the confusion... the light in both is greatly shaded by Thalassia grasses above and around the Catalaphyllia... Is this clear? The light IS intense, but shades the animals> 5) Also in your article you state that the animals are found horizontal in nature with mouths down. How do you know how to place them so their mouths are down? My elegance is curved in shape. Should I place it so the curve is up like a U or down like a N? <What? No, the animals are found horizontal in the wild with their mouths UP, like a "V"... this is how they should be oriented (in mulm and substrate best) in captivity: "Placed in horizontal orientation, point down, mouths and tentacles facing upward," from the article itself: Home Page > 6) Should I feed my elegance? If so what? <I would, something meaty, about twice a week maximum> 7) Should I repeat the dip? If so how often? <If you deem it useful... always in balance of trade off of the damage of moving, handling it... Move it underwater (in a jar, specimen container)... no more than three times in a week> Thanks in advance, Tim Anderson Feel free to ask any follow up questions >> <I sense your concern, and share it. Bob Fenner> Elegance Coral Hi Bob, Couple of quick questions...I recently ( Friday ) bought an Elegance Coral for my 55g reef and upon getting him home I noticed about a 1/2 inch of tissue recession on the coral revealing the septa sp? Anything I can do for the coral?? My current set-up is VHO. I have the coral about half way up the reef and in very little flow. Any additives, vitamins etc. I could purchase? I currently dose Kalkwasser 24/7 and add strontium and Lugol's weekly per directions. My second question deals with Lugol's and strontium. I also have a 10g Nano Reef with mushrooms, star polyps, and two cuttings from a gorgonian. My question is how do I dose the Lugol's and strontium in the 10g? The dosage on the package is 1 drop per 25 gallons on the Lugol's and 1 or 2 ml per 50 gallons on the strontium (Seachem concentrate)... Thanks for any help, Brian >> There are a few important things to tell you re your Elegance Coral... first, please see my full take on this stony coral's captive use in an article stored at www.wetwebmedia.com. In recent years, these animals have especially not proven to be hardy for aquarium use... Next, if you want to try saving this specimen, I would do a few things. For one, do direct some more flow (non-linear) to its space... and execute the following "dip procedure" (this may seem strange, but is standard operating procedure with the family (Caryophylliidae, including the popular Euphyllias) in the trade. Make a bath of system water and enough freshwater to lower the specific gravity by a few thousandths... the exact number is unimportant... the desire here is to make a hypotonic solution to expedite transferring the dip into the animal. Next put in four times the dosage (check the label) of Malachite Green (sold as this and a few other "Ich" remedy names). Immerse the Elegance in this bath for ten minutes or so... Repeat in three days if it doesn't show signs of improvement. Regarding the issue of supplements and dosage... if it were me, I'd make a "stock solution" of these in a container of known volume (let's say a gallon jug) and use this "serial dilution" to feed the small/Nano-reef. Easier to control, and much less chance of overdosing... Does this make sense? Dose the one gallon bottle, then pour the one gallon bottle's contents, as needed, into the mini-reef. Use distilled, RO, or other purified water to make up the stock solution... and don't worry if you put in too little of these supplements in this standard... best to shy conservatively here. Bob Fenner Elegance corals Hello again, Got a problem with my elegance coral. Looked in the "Reef Aquarium Vol. 1" and it's kind of a toss up between the 'Brown jelly' and 'white film'. The coral is not opening up and there is a cream colored film on one side of the skeleton. I'm not sure whether a freshwater dip and quarantine is the answer or trying to find some of the antibiotic that they mention. Most important is, does it have a chance of spreading? HELP!!!!!!! <Not much chance of spreading. Course of action? Please see the "Elegance" piece, associated "FAQs", and family input ("Caryophylliidae") posted on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com... this scenario is all too common... and has been covered, recorded there. Bob Fenner> thanks, Charlie ELEGANCE CORAL Question, my elegance coral has started
closing up after the addition of magnesium. I read on WWM about the
Elegance's natural surroundings, and my tank has plenty of organic
plant matter. Is it doomed? I did an iodine dip according to John
Warner (Warner Marine) and the poor guy looks a little better. <Not
doomed. I would try adding a bit of iodide solution and feeding your
specimen a "cocktail shrimp" (yum, sans sauce). And ring me
back in a couple of days. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Todd Gabriel Elegance coral Today my elegance coral wont open up and there is a brown film leaking from the opening. Should I give it a fresh water bath? What is happening to the coral? The other ones are fine. The coral has been in the tank about 3 weeks. THANKS!!!!! <The non-opening and brown exudate may be nothing. I would not dip this coral in freshwater... but do read this part of our site and the accompanying FAQs file: http://wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm Bob Fenner> Problems with Elegance Corals <<JasonC here, filling in while Bob is away diving.>> I have lost two elegance corals in the past year. <<I'm sorry to hear this...>> I have kept both exactly as recommended in your article. On the bottom, not to<o> much flow and not under metal halides. Apparently this is a problem many aquarists have been encountering with this beautiful coral. <<I've not heard as such... there are too many factors to declare it an epidemic, methinks>> Several dealers have said they have stopped carrying them due to this mystery. <<perhaps, I will be traveling to my LFS today, I'll ask them.>> All the books call them hardy and easy to keep. Have you heard of this problem ("mysterious bacteria")? Do you know of any surviving and growing in captivity that were collected in the last two years ? <<I will ask around, I don't keep any of these myself. I did see a very healthy one recently in a video posted by a member of the WetWebDiscussion Forum but I've no idea how old the specimen was. You might want to post this question there, we are very fortunate to have some very knowledgeable coral lurkers in that forum and I bet you'd pique their interest. http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/ >> Thanks for any info you can give me, Mario <<Cheers, J -- >> J. Sprung in FAQ's In your FAQ section on elegance corals Julian Sprung says the current problem with them is caused by a bacteria and to treat them with the antibiotics Nitrofurazone or Doxycycline. Can you help me locate this medication. The online fish sources don't appear to carry it. Thanks, Lee <The first is sold in the industry by a few manufacturers/distributors, check with your LFS re. The second is available through a veterinarian only as far as I'm aware. There is a dip/bath protocol for Caryophylliids mentioned on the family's coverage on WetWebMedia.com you may benefit from reading. Bob Fenner> Elegance Coral info you might find interesting Hi Bob. We've met a couple times and corresponded once. I know you have a FAQ on your page about Elegance corals and thought you might find the following from Julian Sprung interesting (I have no idea how you 2 get along, <Fine enough personally... though our ideas, understanding of facts don't agree on some subjects> if this is copyrighted or whatever :-) I picked up on this thread (from reefs.org) because my LFS owner was recently complaining that he couldn't keep Elegance Corals in the store even though they are "supposed" to be easy. <Mmm> So Someone asked on reefs.org about "Elegance corals that shrink and die". Evidently this has been a common problem for the last 5 years or so. <More so in recent years, yes> A LFS owner from New Hampshire said it was because they are from lagoons and normally half buried in mud, that they aren't getting enough nutrition now that we have more and more efficient skimmers and other means of removing nutrients. BUT, Julian Sprung emailed the following response. The rest of this is from Julian. Take care. Hope to see you at a future WMC or MACNA--if we have either one again! <Doubtful at this point> Jim bash Topic: Has anyone found the problem with the elegance corals deflating/shrinking and slow de I hope everyone out there is listening. I have written about the elegance coral problem in my FAMA column Reef Notes (more than once) and have spoken about it at my various lectures. I don't know why my advice on this point has fallen on deaf ears. The problem with elegance coral (Catalaphyllia jardinei) that has only occurred the past several years is caused by bacteria. If you first treat the coral in either Nitrofurazone or Doxycycline for about four or five days it will not suffer the shrinking and wilting/rotting then dying problem. Corals suffering the problem can be cured by treatment if it is initiated early enough. The problem is NOT caused by starvation. Please do not continue to spread that myth as it results in the death of more coral. Tom, you are an excellent aquarist running a great shop. Please treat the elegance corals with antibiotics in a quarantine system. Please post your results here, preferably renewing the topic every week, until a few people in the industry get a clue. Apparently I alone cannot tell enough people that when something is on fire they should try to put the fire out. This is such an easy problem to solve. I have visited may wholesale facilities and recommended that they treat the elegance corals. No one does it though. Dealers could also easily do this to help their customers. Another point- if you place a sick elegance coral in a tank that contains a healthy one, the disease is contagious. Both may die. It can also be passed to other corals, but usually remains confined to elegance. That is a fascinating point, worth studying. I hope no idiot gets on this forum and accuses me of creating a false story about bacteria and elegance corals. I have no interest in stirring up controversy- my interest here is to answer the question correctly and to help improve the hobby. I believe that it is irresponsible to receive elegance corals and not treat them with antibiotics. Their chance of survival lately without treatment is very slim. With treatment they become very hardy, as they used to be. I cannot explain why this disease suddenly became a problem a few year back. All I know is that it did, and continues to be a problem today. Regarding where elegance corals come from- it is true that they are lagoon dwellers, but that has no bearing on their success in aquariums with regard to nutrients. They can be found in shallow seagrass flats and on deep reef slopes (yes, on reefs). I have seen them in various habitats in Australia, the Solomon Islands, and in Japan. They do usually occur with their base in mud or sand, sometimes on coral rubble. Sincerely, Julian Sprung <Mmm, this really doesn't sound like (word usage, syntax) like Jules... My opinions on the species are posted on WetWebMedia.com Bob Fenner> Elegance corals Hi Bob, My two elegance corals appear to be declining. Not opening fully. I had one for four weeks and one for two weeks. I keep them as you recommend on the bottom, area of little water movement. I have PC lighting 10 K from AGA for a total of 220 watts on a 50 gallon reef. Could this be to strong? Water parameters are pH 8, nitrates 10, calcium 420, Alk 3.0. <Probably not too much of a problem with the light... Do you feed these Corals? Something quite meaty... about twice a week I recommend... and would boost your alkalinity... Bob Fenner> Thanks, Mario Did you get my email? & Sick Elegance I sent a message
off at 6:00 am approx. my time about my dying elegance coral, did it
now show up? <Yes, it is here, but we are running very behind. Bob
is off in Australia, Anthony is presenting at the Midwest Marine
Aquarium Conference, and I am attending it. We had hoped to remote
access and answer questions, but had some technical difficulties.>
here's a copy of what I sent: I got home from work and found my
elegance in poor shape. it's separated about in the middle, 1/2 is
sloughing off and a purplish color, the other 1/2 still looks good:
bright purple polyps and a neon green center the temp varies between
79F and 81F (usually at 80F) ph is 8.6 Alk is 3.5 no detectable
nitrites or ammonia nitrates at approx 10 (slightly lower) 29g tank
using an Ecosystem 40 as the only filtration system w/a bag of
activated carbon in the return current provided by 3 MH's, 1 600
2x400 pushing the current in a counter-clockwise direction the other
corals in the tank include: Florida Ricordea leather coral
(Sarcophyton) open brain candy cane various corals that came in with
the FL live rock they are all doing well, except the elegance is this
the dreaded "brown slime" disease? <No, probably not.>
anything I can do to help? <Again, sorry to say, but probably
not.> btw: to the make up water I add 1 tablespoon of baking soda
(about 3/4 of a gallon a day) I dose 5ml of ESV's 2 part B-Ionic
Alk/calc daily (I don't have a calc test kit) I use 5ml of Reef
Solution supplement (about every other day) change about 2-4 gallons of
water every 2 weeks the tank is what some consider turbid (i.e. not
clear as glass), there are very fine particles in the water column, all
the filter feeders are doing very well I feed a mix: Spray dried marine
phytoplankton (I actually do blend it for 2 minutes) mixed with finely
chopped dried shrimp, dried anchovies, about 1"x1" strip of
Nori, some Spirulina, coral heaven. enough of the powder food for 1
week worth of feeding (based on manuf. recommendations) with 1 cup of
dechlorinated water, I feed about 5 - 10 ml of this every other day.
<Very good food for Ricordea and Leather, but the LPS's would
rather have larger food particles, frozen Mysis shrimp or plankton.>
last time I attached pictures, this time none. <I took a look at the
pictures. It looks like many of the Elegance seen in stores now. The
majority do seem to die now from unknown reasons. Many anecdotal
aquarists reports.> it's down to one polyp now, is there
anything I can do to help it? <I have no recommendation for you
other to hold onto it for several months even after apparent death,
just in case of Anthocauli production. -Steven Pro> Elegance and Doxycycline I have an elegance coral that is not doing well.. not expanding...receding.. I want to treat it with Doxycycline ... but I can't find any information on dosage... <is there any evidence of an actual pathogenic infection? "Brown jelly", necrotic tissue...or simply recession? can you tell me how much to use?.... <I fear that medicating may do more harm than good with an antibiotic on this invertebrate. Iodine dips may be a more temperate solution if you feel you must medicate. What is the history of this animal so that I can help (how long have you had it, what is your average Ca and Alk levels, purple tip (low light) or other color, what lighting employed, animal at what depth, etc)? thanks Al Nuckols <kindly, Anthony> Elegance Coral Problem Hello, Thanks for the nice service.
Always very helpful. I got an elegance coral recently, it seemed to be
settling fine, till I fed it once with brine shrimp. Several hermit
crabs got to the shrimps as well and have started picking on the
elegance. <You said you got the coral recently. I do not know what
recently means to you, but it is a very common story. While you may
have thought your Elegance was "settling fine", it may not
have been. The hermit crabs are feeding on necrotic tissue. I can tell
you a healthy Elegance has a strong sting and ho hermit crab is going
to be able to mess with it. There is an incredible amount of writings
on Elegance corals and there demise over the last few years. Elegance
were previously thought to be hardy. I know, I have one from seven
years ago. The thing goes like crazy. There are various suggested
reasons for why hobbyists are having problems now including shipping
trauma, some unknown bacterial infection, etc. My opinion is that these
somewhat different corals now. They appear different, are collected in
different areas, and their skeleton is morphologically different and
yet we treat them the same. Also, there is a lot of rather poor
shipping of LPS corals, IMO. I strongly prefer to see all LPS shipped
suspended from Styrofoam rafts that do not allow the tissue to abrade
against the bag in transit.> They are coming back for more. The
coral has closed mostly and has started to produce a very thick white
slimy excretion. Can you give some idea what's going on. Tank
parameters are: 30 gal/4 NO @30W SP 1.023 Temp: 78 DKH 11.2 PH 8.1 Ca
410 Nitrite/Amm - Undetectable Nitrate ~ 6 ppm Phosphate ~ .025
<These all seem good.> Thanks a lot in advance. Pabak
<Unfortunately, nothing magical I can tell you. For the time being,
removing the crabs would be my course of action and hoping for the
best. -Steven Pro> |
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