New/old elegance coral info  10/25/07
Hey Bob, have you seen this yet?
http://www.elegancecoral.org/Page_4.html
<Mmm, no... but the title seems familiar...>
It's a longer read, but I do think it's worth it. I was thinking it might be worth trying to get on WWM in some form. Sara
<Will add as a link here. BobF>--

Sick Elegance, Rose Brain health, & possible Lithophyllum sp. ID 10/18/07 Hi Folks, I have been searching your site for answers and with all the information I've read I am less sure than I was before I started. <It happens to all of us. :-)> I have a few questions and I am a recent student of this hobby so please bear with me. I am running a 265 gallon, 32in x 32in x 5ft, with a 29 gallon sump with skimmer, we don't do anything small in this house. Currently, I am in the process of slowly filling my tank, so I have started at one end with a 400W MH and 4-40W fluorescent actinic. I will be adding another 400W MH at the other end when I have life to put under it. First, I have enclosed a few photos of my rose brain, elegance and an unknown. The unknown was a skeleton covered in mushrooms that had a great shape. When I got it in my tank a tiny portion of the skeleton was still alive and started to regrow, recovering the skeleton with life, any idea what this could be? <Very nice recovery. It looks like some kind of Lithophyllum sp.> Under actinic only this glows green, but with MH it looks a tan colour. The other 4 pics are of my formerly healthy elegance and brain and their now sick images. The elegance from what I read on your site looks like the virus that Julian Sprung describes. Over the course of about a week parts of it started to shrivel. Now it's been like this for about 3 weeks. I am hoping for the best and just looking for suggestions. <There's been some recent promising investigation into the cause of (and possibly cure for) Elegance coral disease. Please see here: http://www.elegancecoral.org/Page_4.html> My brain on the other hand had almost tripled in size from this healthy photo(daytime) and now for about 5 days has continued to shrink. The colour is still good but there is no puffiness to it at all. <Actually, it looks a little bleached. You should move it to an area of less intense light or raise your light. For general care of these corals, please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/trachyphlliidae.htm> I have done a partial water change and then today I noticed that the little sponges that hitchhike on live rock, the one that look like cotton balls, have all started to die off. I can't figure out what has happened. My ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all at 0 and the ph is 8.4. <I think you probably have too much light over your tank. Some sponges don't like a lot of light.> Also in this tank, 130lbs live rock, Rhodactis mushrooms, 2 Fungia - green and orange Platygyra, Blastomussa, lg coral covered in Christmas tree worms, a Purple, a blue and a yellow tang, 2 small clownfish, a lg orange and green BTA and a small rose BTA, a sm Xenia, a frogspawn, chili sponge 3 cleaner shrimp, a debelius lobster, multiple mushrooms, candy coral, green star polyp, a red and yellow feather duster, many snails and hermit crabs, and of course anything that hitch hiked in on the live rock. Everything else in this tank appears healthy, eats normally and seems to be thriving. The only thing that has changed since just before the brain started to recede is the addition of 5 lbs of live rock, and the Rhodactis mushrooms and a move of the purple tang in from the QT. Should I just leave it or is there any suggestions about intervention? <I don't think the new additions are causing your coral troubles.> Thanks in advance for your help, us newbies really appreciate your time and consideration. Christine <De nada, Sara M.>

Sponge Growth on Elegance Coral – 04/30/07
<Hello James Brown!  Mich here… and I feel good!  Sorry, I couldn’t resist.>
About 2 months ago I notice a white sponge growing on the outside shell of my Elegance Coral.
<OK.>
It has now completely covered the top and bottom of the shell and looks like it might be growing inside.
<Is the Elegance opening fully?  Does the sponge seem to be interfering with the overall happiness of the coral?  If so, then remove the sponge, if not, then you may want to let it be.>
I'm thinking it might be time to pull the Elegance out and expose to the air to kill the sponge.
<I would not do this.  If you want to remove the sponge I would do so manually while underwater and collect the pieces and discard them outside of the system.  Dying sponges can create real problems, exposing them to air and replacing in your system is unwise in my opinion.>
Have not done it yet because the coral is epoxied to a piece of live rock. Should I get rid of the sponge or leave it alone?
<I would leave it alone unless the Elegance is showing signs of stress.>
Thanks - Jim
<You're welcome!  Mich>
 

Does my Catalaphyllia look ok. Kristy replying for Toony – Elegance Coral – 4/18/07 Hey Brenda <Hi Kristy> Kristy here, sorry for the confusion, we get it all the time, my best friend Kristy she goes by the name Toony came around today and saw me reading more info about my BTA and its bleaching and thought it was a brilliant site and decided to ask about her elegance, and as she doesn’t have access to the net at home I told her she can use mine. <Please have Toony add her nick-name to the bottom so that I can keep these straight.  This is way more than my brain can handle.> Sorry Again for the confusion. I wish my elegance was doing as good as hers. She only left about 1/2 hour ago so I just called her to let her know you have replied and she asks "should I leave my lights off until her lighting that she ordered arrived at our LFS and how much % of water change should I do a week." Toony is only as am I, I recommended her doing a 25% water change a week. As I do. Was I right, I'd hate to give her the wrong answer. <I need more information on the tank.  Does it have a skimmer?  How many gallons?> She only has the elegance, 2 green chromis, maroon clown, a small moon wrasse and an anthias, rock and shell grit I think in her 4ft tank, not sure if she has brought anything new since I last visited. My Catalaphyllia has a purple tip, Toony's is white. Thanks Kristy Once again sorry for the confusion. People say that we are just alike but she's the evil and I'm the good. <I think you're both evil for being 18 days late for April Fools!  Not a problem, I will take two aspirin and all will be better tomorrow!  LOL  If Toony has fish in the tank, they need to have lights out.  Brenda>

Re:  Kristy replying for Toony – Elegance Coral – 4/18/07 Hey Brenda TOONY here. <Hi Toony, much better Now!  I would have never been able to keep two girls straight with the name Kristy, with similar problems and using the same e- mail address.>    My tank is a 70 gal tank, 3" shell grit, 30kilos Live rock, 30 gal sump, skimmer, pump 2000 L/h, 2x power heads I think are 3000 l/h. Fish  are 2 green chromis, maroon clown, heralds angel, a small moon wrasse and an anthias, temp is 25, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all sit on 0, ph 8.3. I have not done hardness test as I ran out last week but looked ok then. <It sounds like your water quality is up to par.  I would stick to about 10% weekly water changes.  If water quality declines, increase it a bit.  You need to get those lights on the tank ASAP.> Cheers Toony <Brenda>

Too far out of too large grade, inappropriate substrate. Where's the ref. referral Bren? RMF

Hi...question about elegance. NNS   2/26/07
Hi, my name is RX.
<Like the prescription>
I have a lot of trouble with my LFS...
<space>
they have been selling me corals and fish which lots of problem...I dun
<done?>
practice dips because it is a relatively unknown practice here in my country.
<Oooh>
I am from Singapore and here they dun even heard of coral dips...they just throw corals away if they are infected...bad practice.
<Agreed>
My tank is 50 gallons...used to have a blue tang, coral tang, hammer coral and finger coral.
But they all died, due to diseases.
Right now my tank remained:
4 damsels
1 Goniopora
1 star polyp
1 button polyp
1 mushroom
1 crocea clam
2 slugs
1 boxer shrimp
1 cleaner shrimp
Nitrite, ammonia both is at zero level.
PH 8.3
Nitrate at 5ppm
Water quality is fine, with skimmer.
Water dechlorinated.
Temperature at 27degrees C
I am planning to add another skimmer soon.
I have some algae growing on the seabed and an 8cm DSB make up of layers of substrates.
One layer of mixed sand (of all sizes) at the bottom with another layer of coral chips next on top.
And three more layers of sand (different sizes) with the finest sand on top I buried my elegance deep into the sand and it is protected from current by the live rocks.
<Is how this species is found... more often in muck than sand... in the wild>
I have 4 T5 lights. 3 10k lights and 1 actinic light.
Elegance is below the actinic light.
All my corals are doing very well now. Because after the demise of my tang and others. I have been adding beneficial bacteria and doing water changes.
I haven't been feeling my fishes so often to improve water quality.
And one day, my clam dropped down from the rock...twice...gosh...it hurts u know.
I not sure if it hurt the elegance because it is just on top of it...
<Yikes>
Until now elegance has not been showing her beauty...she just remains closed.
It had been 2 days plus.
I took it out of the water to smell it...
Some portion got a bit of bad smell. just like a bad breath.
It smells just like when my hammer got infested.
I am really worried...what should I do ?
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegcordisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above>
I am planning to do a coral dip using Seachem's reef dip.
<Good choice>
What I guess is that it is injured and bacteria in the water might be decomposing it, causing it to be unable to recover on its own.
Is it possible?
<Yes>
Or some bad bacteria maybe infesting the wounds...
<This too>
This is just what I think from a scientific point of view.
Should I quarantine it?
Or just do a dip once in while and observe it?
<I would do this latter>
I can't set up a hospital tank due to the lack of light and I am afraid that the poor condition of the hospital tank may not be able to help.
<I agree>
And I once did a crazy experiment with my star polyps and hammer by doing a quick freshwater rinse and then dipping into saltwater with methyl blue when they had that weird similar smell...
<Yes... produce detectable chemicals when stressed...>
The star polyp survives and recovers on it’s own. Up till today it is still growing bigger.
And the hammer stopped producing mucus but it rot in its skeleton. I dump it after 2 days of observations.
And my Elegance, up till now, haven't been opening but it doesn't release any mucus or weird substances till now... :)
I pray for its survival. I just check on it and the smell is still there.
<Real good. Bob Fenner>

Re: Hi...question about elegance. Hlth.   2/27/07
Today I checked on my elegance coral again. It’s bad because a bit of the flesh is torn and now it is on the sand. And some transparent stuff is coming from the coral. Is it possible for it to survive even if it’s torn?
<Yes>
Can the flesh grow back slowly?
<Yes>
The weird part is that the torn flesh doesn’t lose its color and under the actinic lighting, it’s still glowing green. Does that suggest the flesh is still alive? Please help me. What should I do?
<May be alive... I would "do" nothing... NOT move this specimen... perhaps "step up" (with testing) the administration of iodine/ide/ate supplementation, feeding with meaty foods soaked in vitamins and HUFAs>
Should I
1) throw it away because it’s hopeless and it can pollute the water.
2) do a coral dip because it can still survive and grow back slowly by keep the water quality high.
3) do a coral dip for the coral and the torn flesh because the torn flesh might be able to grow into a new coral one day. (Crazy idea but that’s what I think because it’s not dead yet.)
<I would do none of the above... Not worth the damage of moving, but worth trying to save in place>
Thanks. Please tell me honestly if it can survive. The coral is very important to me because it’s a life after all. But if I have to choose, I will choose not to pollute the water and causing all the other members of the tank to perish with it. If it still have chance to survive, I will choose to nurse it like a lovely mum. ? thanks.
<Good. Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Decline of An Elegance Coral?  3/30/06
Scott,
<Scott here! Sorry for the delay in the reply.>
Thank you very much for your quick response.  I was kind of wondering if the 20k bulbs might be an issue, but if they do turn out to be then I may slowly switch them out for 10k.  I have actually been more concerned about how deep the 175 watt bulbs will be able to penetrate vs. 400 watt.  What do you think?
<They'll be fine for most corals in a 24" deep tank, IMO.>
One other quick question about a Elegance coral I have.  I also have a 46 gallon bowfront tank with great water quality and everything else doing spectacular but my Elegance.  When I first got it for the first couple of weeks it opened up nicely but since then over about a months time it seems to be slowly shrinking and opening less and less.  It doesn't show any other signs of stress other then it keeps getting smaller and opens less and less.
For about a week it would blow up like a balloon during the day, which I thought was a little abnormal also.  I did read that it is good to target feed Elegance, which I wasn't doing for the first month and tried to start doing a week ago but only seemed to worsen its condition.  Also, a friend of mine has beautiful large Elegance that he never target feeds and is doing wonderful.   Any ideas or suggestions about what I could do to hopefully
improve it condition?  Is it savable or it slowly dieing?
Thanks again, your feedback very very helpful
Jason
<Well, Jason, these corals really do benefit from directed feeding. They are also susceptible to allelopathic "attacks" from other corals in your system, so they are really best suited for a monospecific display, as the only coral in residence. Feed them small foods (less than 1/4" in size) and keep the water quality high. Do make use of the vast resources here on WWM regarding the care of this coral. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Corals/Elegance Coral ... beh., gen.   3/16/06
Bob, <James today.  Bob is bored to death in Hawaii> <<Heeee! Am not. RMF>>
Yesterday we purchased a green w/purple tips elegance coral from the
LFS. It was healthy looking in the LFS tank, with tentacles all
open/out, mouth small. I spent a good hour yesterday acclimating it to
the new tank. Our tank is an established several year old 150gal, MH
250/actinic 40, with good water flow, good parameters ; nitrate low,
ph=8.3, Ca 410, temp =82. This morning the coral tentacles are
retracted. We are keeping it in a low-lit <Do like moderate light.> portion of the tank, on the
bottom where there is less flow and will do a water change and feed it.  <I wouldn't feed until it is acclimated well.>
  I have a few days before the LFS will say, sorry bud...you bought it,
too late. Do you have any advice on what to look for or do in the next
48hrs to get our new specimen to open up and be happy? Has this coral
gotten so hard to care for that I should send it back today?  <I'd make sure you place it on a soft/fine substrate.  Rougher substrate can/will irritate the fleshy underside of the coral.  Also read here for additional info.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm   James (Salty Dog)>
Jim in Va

Catalaphyllia jardinei
Hi all, I have been reading about the poor survivability of elegance corals. Anthony's book suggests to leave them alone until we can be assured of getting better quality specimens. In the May 2002 FAMA Julian Sprung suggests that it is a pathogenic bacteria infection that is the main cause of the problems, and treating with the two below antibiotics will cure the problem. 
<You may well want to see the "continuing discussion" re this species twixt Jules and Eric Borneman in the August 02 FAMA>
So (1) do you agree with his idea to treat the coral with Doxycycline or Nitrofurazone if it begins to waist away?
<Not IMO/E... much better to utilize the dip/bath procedure on arrival detailed on our site here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm and in places in the linked FAQs files beyond>
(2) I would like to buy one but have resisted due to all the bad "press", where do you get these antibiotics, my LFS has no idea. 
<Furan compounds are still sold in the ornamental aquatics trade (Look for a shop that carries Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, Aquatronics, Argent Labs... lines. Doxycycline can be purchased over the Net... or through a M.D. or Vet.>
Thanks Larry
<I will forward your query to Anthony and Steve as well. Bob Fenner>

Catalaphyllia jardinei
Hi all, I have been reading about the poor survivability of elegance corals. Anthony's book suggests to leave them alone until we can be assured of getting better quality specimens. 
<yep... my general advice for the masses of casual aquarists. Dedicated folks that will study, specialize and quarantine are encouraged to do so. But know that elegant coral live in the wild in areas with VERY few if any species around them for a reason! If you are going to put this animals in a mixed garden reef aquarium... you are doing yourself, it and the industry a disservice. My advice is to have a dedicated refugium of grasses for it if not a species specific tank like one would/could/should do for anemones>
In the May 2002 FAMA Julian Sprung suggests that it is a pathogenic bacteria infection that is the main cause of the problems, and treating with the two below antibiotics will cure the problem. So (1) do you agree with his idea to treat the coral with Doxycycline or Nitrofurazone if it begins to waist away? 
<hmmm... I admit that something must be done. But for aquarists that cannot categorically determine the nature of the condition if pathogenic at all... the use of antibiotics indiscriminately is often a disservice to coral and world health. Do read Eric Borneman's response to Julian's theory here: 
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-05/eb/feature/index.htm
as well as look at Julian's response in the June issue of FAMA>
(2) I would like to buy one but have resisted due to all the bad "press", where do you get these antibiotics, my LFS has no idea. 
<wow... get a different LFS: they at least have tons of Nitrofurazone on their shelves in several brands of medication! It is as common as dirt and has been around for years. It is a basic antibiotic that they should have been recommending to customers for fresh and saltwater fishes! Sheesh. Jungle brand Fungus Eliminator has it... as well as many other brands of meds with the name "Furan" in it. Easy to find... mail order if necessary>
Thanks Larry
<best regards, Anthony>

Elegance Coral
Hi, Steven Pro, how are you?
<Not too bad. How are you?>
My elegant is not doing well. I just got back from LA for Thanksgiving. I only went away one day. I don't know if it is possible to get you out to my place in La Mesa (near Lake Murray) to take a look to see what can possibly be going on and is there anything I can still do for it.
<I am out in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.>
Or maybe if you have a place at your place that you can try to raise it back to health.
<There is probably nothing you, I, or anyone could do.>
The store I bought from had it under 175 watt MH's at mid tank, about 12 inches below water surface.
<That was its first problem. They should always be kept on the sand under low to moderate lighting.>
The owner said he had it for 3 weeks, and it did look healthy.
<They generally do. One of the bad things about these corals is they survive long enough to give th hobbyist false hope.>
Like you said damage can be done at anytime, but I just can't believe with calcium reactor keeping alk/pH in check, that it can't make a recovery from whatever the damage.
<Many Elegance has perished in recent years in the hands of very experienced keepers with well maintained tanks. It is the coral, its particular needs, and the care it received previously that are usually the problem. Never buy an Elegance that has been perched up on liverock, never place it on rock yourself, give it low to moderate amounts of water movement and lighting, and hope for the best.>
Something else have to be the problem that's causing it to not improving.
<Not really>
I did find the cleaner shrimp (one-I assume is the same one), that was picking on it when I walk in the door today.
<I would describe the behavior as opportunistic and not attacking. It is feeding on necrotic tissue, not attacking healthy tissue.>
The cleaner shrimp I got is the kind that have 2 red stripe and one white strip in between the 2 red strips. So I immediately fed them and my fish and I am planning on feed the shrimps everyday if I can, and hope it stays away. I wasn't successful on catching it today. I always only see one shrimp picking on it at one time, so I assume it's the same one and maybe it developed a taste for it. Now after they all ate, the shrimps went in hiding. I do have a 10 gallon empty tank (no fish/shrimp), but there is water, live rock, and some Caulerpa with two 8 watts fluorescents on it. It used to be seahorse tank. One bulb is regular fluorescent (which doesn't help much with Caulerpa growth), and the other one is a Aqua-glow bulb (which Caulerpa likes). But, due to busy schedule at work, I sent the horses away. It does still get water change and power head still running, but no calcium reactor. It has a drop in air pump powered skimmer, which was turned off since no more seahorses are in it. If necessary, I can rinse old sand from my old 50 gallon and make a few inches deep sand bed for Elegance. I will have to buy another Aqua-glow bulb, I think if I want to put elegance in that tank. What do you think?
<It might be best to quarantine this specimen now for fear of wasting away in your display.>
I don't even know if you are in San Diego. I figure if you are partner with Bob Fenner, you probably close by.
<Actually the other side of the country, The beauty of the internet.>
But I could be wrong. If you can come check it out, I would really, really appreciate it. If possible perhaps this weekend. I don't know how long the coral will last. Probably no more than 5 days to 1 week. Please let me know ASAP. My cell number is 619-xxx-xxxx. If you are in town, I can go pick you up, if you don't feel like driving. I just hate to see things die on me.
<I understand.>
Thanks in advance. Hope to hear from you very soon. Sincerely, George
<Sorry about your coral. On a positive side, our conversations have spurred me to begin an article discussing Elegance corals. Best of luck to you! -Steven Pro>

Elegance Questions
Thanks for your response. I moved it to the bottom, partially bury in the sand, with both end's edge (coral is fan shape) about 1/4 inches or less from sand. It has been there since Saturday night. The 2 cleaner shrimps stick there pinchers into the opening between the meat and skeleton once a while, I guess there are something to eat in there.
<This is not a good sign. They maybe feeding on necrotic/infected tissue. Nothing for you to do about it though. Just keep your fingers crossed.>
But overall seems coral improved a little, compare to the way it looks like then and today. One thing got me worried is the articles I read from the link you gave me. It mentioned about nutrient rich environment. I don't like to super skim my water like some other people do, perhaps some corals need that kind of water quality.
<There are many different niches and many different types of "reef" tanks.>
I usually only clean my skimmer once a month or so.
<I would like to see you clean it more often that this. I clean mine about every other day or so.>
Since the tank just transferred with 60lbs of new sand at bottom, I believe it still balancing itself out. I still have diatoms and start getting some green algae growing now rather than just brown. I do have about 30 snails at work. One clam, one sea squirt thingy, a sponge, and a gorgonian filtering the water.
<Depending on species of above you are going to need to take a proactive stance in feeding these animals.>
Curious, what kind of animals do you have in the same tank as your elegance coral?
<Mostly other LPS, a few SPS, a few soft corals, and mushrooms that I am actively removing.>
What's your alkalinity, pH, nitrate, etc?
<Specific gravity 1.025, pH ~8.2, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all undetectable, alkalinity ~3.5 meq/l, calcium ~375 ppm, temperature
For a tank that's not as nutrient rich, can feeding replace the nutrient it needs?
<Yes, that is what I do.>
Right now I think my tank has plenty of nutrients, since diatom and green algae is all over the place.
<I am not so sure. This is a cycle of sorts for new tanks.>
Coralline algae is starting to grow faster and faster now.
<Excellent!>
I do have Calcium reactor.
<Great!>
I do add buffer, mineral supplements, and iodine once every week.
<Ok>
I don't know if my test kit is ok or what. Yesterday I test my alk=11.2 (I tested 2 times), and calcium is 400 (which is lower than the 425 for sea water).
<These numbers are fine. Just keep them consistent and you will be rewarded.>
I think I probably need to have someone test it again for me. Thanks again. Let me know.
Sincerely, George
<Good luck! -Steven Pro>

Coral Treatment
Thanks Steven Pro. I will be looking forward to your article. Do you think two 8 watt fluorescents are enough light or do I need more light in my 10 gallon?
<Truthfully, I do not think it will matter much.>
I probably need actinic too right or the aqua-glow plant light is fine or do I need PC light instead? How much light do you think is adequate for them in a 10 gallon?
<My recommendation was to remove to QT so as not to pollute your system. If the coral lives for a week or more after the move, then you may want to consider spending additional money on it.>
Or maybe I should keep them in my refugium (at planning stages, still try to decide if I want a refugium). Do you have a refugium?
<Not on my current 55, but my new 120 has two.>
I am going to do a water change today for my main tank. I will be doing a 100% water change for my 10 gallon, so I won't have to spend time get the coral use to the different water. Would you suggest anything I can try, maybe iodine (diluted)?
<This may help.>
Logically that not a good idea to me, because that probably stresses it out further and might end up kill the healthy one.
<Iodine has some antiseptic value.>
Well, I guess I just refuse to hear the phrase "there are nothing anyone can do at this point". So it is very lucky for you to even have your elegance survived. No wonder you are thrilled to have that growing the way it is. What do you think, is it worth even trying?
<I would QT it in the ten gallon tank with water from the main display and hope for the best. The longer it lives, the better.>
Would it do more damage like I think it will be, than good?  
<I am not sure what you are referring to.>
You know what. I won't give up. I will give it a try again. But this time I want to ask the store I bought from place it in gravel, low to med light and current.
<You might be best off buying right out of the bag before it even goes in the dealer's tank.>
I think that way we can give other hobbyists hope and who knows maybe one day our elegance will be some help to replenish their population. I tried to keep the regular and purple tip elegance before few years ago. Like you said, they live long enough to give most of us hope, than just die.  But I think that I had a regular one live for a while back than, but something happen to it and it died. Do you think purple tip is harder?
<Yes, much harder.>
If you can have one live in your tank, I don't see why wouldn't it in my or many of the experienced hobbyist's tank.
<The specimen I have is an attached variety, one that grew attached to the reef. The ones you see most often are free living varieties. They come from deeper water and must be kept on soft sand.>
I guess at this point of the time, I will need a lot of luck to find that special elegance that will live and grow like yours. Well thanks again for your patience. Yes internet is a great thing, it link us together no matter where you are. It probably saved and helped many sick corals, fish, etc. Let me know. Oh, do you think I should cut the part of flesh that definitely dying (kind brown in color).
<I would probably touch it as little as possible. Many times doing something to help is the worst thing we can do.>
On the other hand probably speed up the infection of other healthy tissue? I know it probably won't make any difference at this point, but I have to try. Who knows, maybe I will be as lucky as you were. Cross my fingers. Maybe I should talk to it more often, maybe it will get better.  :) Sincerely, George
<Best of luck to you! -Steven Pro>

Elegance Coral Suggestions
Hi Steven, how's things?
<Not too bad. A little tired. Just got back with Anthony from a long, but fun and productive trip.>
I hope my elegance can grow as good as yours. I notice a little receding on my coral. I don't know if it was because I had it side ways on the rock or it was already that way when I bought it.
<Hard to say. The damage could have occurred at anytime.>
It looked healthy and open up pretty good when I got it. Instead of in the sand, right now I just have it up right between rocks.
<I would definitely move it onto the sand.>
I will see how it responded to the change in the next few days. I notice in the picture, you have larger size of gravel.
<Yeah. FYI, I don't like it. I have 300 pounds of Southdown in the garage for my new 120.>
I have finer (sandy) gravel.
<Good>
The sand bed is only about 1 month old. Just transferred from a 50 tall to a 80 gallon. I have 60 lbs of new sand and dumped about 10-15 lbs of old sand to seed it. Do you think I should worry about some bristle worm or other worms that might attack my elegance?
<If they do "attack" the Elegance it is because the Elegance is unhealthy.>
There are cracks on the skeleton of my purple tip elegance. So, something heavy must of smashed it before and recovered. Do you think I need to use epoxy to fill in the crack?
<I would leave it alone.>
I have two 250 watt HQIs and the tank is about 24-25" deep. The HQI are in a 10" tall canopy.
<I would definitely lower this coral to the bottom. They are lower light animals despite their striking color.>
Well, now the coral is about 12 inches below the water surface sitting up right. I am crossing my fingers. If you have any other input/tips on keeping this coral, please let me know. George
<You can start here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm and then work your way through the FAQ files. I would also search for writings from Eric Borneman on the subject. -Steven Pro>

Bloated Puffy Elegance Body
Hi Bob,
<Anthony Calfo in your service>
Greetings from Malaysia.
<and a kind welcome to you from America, fellow reef enthusiast!>
Right I've ran through your FAQ about Elegance Coral and could not find any answer to my problem. My tank's condition is perfect for Elegance as per your articles on how one should keep them and the tank condition needed for it to survive. Here's the wee problem.
The gorgeous green with pink tip fella did fine for the first 2 weeks... opened up proudly displaying its full splendour of vibrant colour. Then I think my bird wrasse knocked it down to the substrate accidentally one day (the Elegance's placed in mid section horizontally on a rock).
<we may have our first problem here, my friend. Elegance coral are collected as free-living specimens (and have a conical skeleton) or as sessile fixed denizens (wall shaped skeletons sawn off of the reef proper). Most Elegance are collected as free-living individuals and should never be placed on rock. They will die in time from abraded tissue (polyps cycles) for having been placed on the rockwork. Even if you have a specimen that was collected from rock, it can be fatal for any LPS to take a fall and sustain torn tissue.>
I got home from work and it was on the bottom of the tank between other rocks in 45 degrees positioning. Still it's opened fully with extended tentacles. Put it back to its original location. No signs of damage. Two days gone by and I noticed at the bottom of its tentacles, there're white stringy things coming out from its meat (is that how you call it?) and they're like attached to the meat itself.
<yes... mesenterial filaments. Stress induced. Not a good sign, but not fatal either. Very noxious to other corals though>
I know they are the inner parts of the coral that came out. Only parts of the coral has this clumps of white stringy things at the base of the tentacles. The rest opens up as normal.
Following day, it started to close up and the stringy things are still there. This time with kinda like jelly thing sticking around the stringy clumps. I think it could be detritus from the water that got stuck to the sticky slimy white stringy things.
<yes... or bacteria and the beginnings of a necrotic infection. Try to maintain good strong random turbulent water flow>
Next day it opened up again... same condition with white slimy stringy things and jelly like stuff around these clumps. This time the coral opens up really large... it's like an inflated puffy balloon... really huge, without the tentacles extending. As day goes by, it shrinks and bloated over and over again in a days cycle. Tissue is not receding, just bloated with un-extended, "un-filled" tentacles,
<yes...defensive, not feeding strategy>
with clumps of white stringy things at the base of some tentacles, and jelly like things around it. Phew! there you go. That's the problem. Any idea what's wrong with this fella?
<just trying to heal>
Its body is so bloated and puffy now as I'm typing this. Looks like a big huge obese man with tiny short little very thin arms and legs.
<you mean it looks like I will look in another 15 years of eating fatty foods?>
Thanks a mill...Cheers...Steve
<best regards, Anthony>

Re: Bloated Puffy Elegance Body
Hi Anthony, Thanks a mill for the explanation on my wee Elegance Coral problem.
<you are quite welcome my friend>
Am I right to say I should just put it down to the tank's bed and let it sit there and wait for it to heal (hopefully)?
<Yes... exactly correct. Although there is no guarantee of recovery, it is of far greater risk to leave it upon the rockwork precariously/unnaturally. Furthermore... free-living (sand dwelling) elegance are believed to benefit if not need the micronutrients available in limited amounts near the surface of the sand bed>
BTW my heart aches looking at this fella all bloated up and can't do anything about it to help. If you or your team member wish to dive in Malaysia someday, do let me know. I'll be most happy to be your guide and all.
<what a wonderful offer... we thank you very kindly and hope to have the pleasure one day soon. In fact, we will be attending the Aquarama conference in Singapore next year (May/June) which is only a hop away. Perhaps then :) ><<Yes... Pete and I were in Pulau Redang last year... and there are hundreds if not thousands more places to dive in Malaysia... are you near any of the big-name resorts? Bob Fenner>>
That's the least I can do since you guys have been great putting up this advise service to everyone on this planet.
<appreciated but not necessary... in shared admiration of the sea we all are (insert Yoda voice HERE)>
But make sure you don't wait until you look like my elegance and come diving alright : )
<Ha! You've heard how well my family cooks! <G>>
Best regards from the other side of the world, Steve
<and soon to be seeing it for ourselves... best regards, Anthony>

Elegance coral and regrowth 9/29/03
Hey Guys!!!  Let me start by saying THANK YOU for such a great website and such great information.  I think I can say for all of us out here that your website is INVALUABLE!!  I am pretty new to this hobby, about 4 months, and I couldn't have accomplished what I have without you guys.
<thanks kindly... do share your wisdom in kind>
OK, Here's what I have for you today.  I have a Catalaphyllia jardinei (?sp?)
<Catalaphyllia jardinei>
that my girlfriend bought me for a present.  Unfortunately it is starting to slowly waste away.  
<if you've had it for more than a few weeks... could be attrition. They need fed almost daily... at least several times weekly with finely minced meaty foods>
It is secreting a lot of mucus and the brown jelly stuff.
<ughh... a necrotic infection. This like all new livestock should have been quarantined. The brown jelly is highly contagious to other corals>  
Per your website and everything else I have read, I put it in my hospital tank and gave it an Iodide bath, Cause Iodine is toxic right?  
<ahhh... used properly, it is anti-septic/medicinal so-to-speak>
I also supplement with SeaChem's Reef Plus, and Reef complete so it is getting some Vitamin C also.  I have read some people will cycle antibiotics also.  Is this worth a shot and if so, which one or ones should I use?  And is there anything I can do to
save my precious present?
<tetracycline has been used in bare-bottoms QT tanks with some success at mfg dose strength>
Also, if it starts to recover, will it regrow over the spaces where the skeleton is showing through or not?  I sure hope so.
<it can indeed in time>
She is the one with the pink tentacles with the purple tips.  I had her at the bottom of my 40 gallon breeder in lower light with low water flow also.  I heard from your website this is the best placement.  
<agreed... although not too low of flow. 10X tank turnover is the minimum>
Oh, she was also placed on her back with tentacles toward the light too.  This is correct right?
<correcto>
My tank parameters are: pH 8.5,sg 1.025, temp 79F, calcium 450,
Nitrates 0, Nitrites 0, and ammonia 0, phosphates .02.  You guys have taught me well!!!  (I hope so anyway!  Hahahha!)   
<all good... although the Calcium does not need to be that high... wane lower is Alk is flat>
I change 5% of the water twice a week also.  I think this really helps with my 40 gallon breeder.  
Agreed, my friend>
It's so easy and fast too!!!!  Thanks for all your help guys.  I know you guys get this question a lot, but everything that I read, and I read all of the responses and questions, didn't really hit on my question.  Thanks again guys.  Will be in touch.
Oh yeah, I am attaching a picture so you guys can see what your knowledge has helped me to create.
<thanks kindly... could not open the zip file though. Please send pics as web-sized jpegs. Thanks kindly, Anthony>

Spewing elegance
09/09/03
Hey crew!  
<Hi Ryan>
I just bought an elegance coral yesterday and it seems to be doing fine except that it is excreting a white cloudy substance every couple of min...  I know that other corals and inverts will excrete poison when stressed but I really need to know from somebody who knows more about them ....thanks
Ryan
<Well Ryan, lots to read, start here: www.wetwebmedia.com/elegance.htm hopefully your animal will be ok. Unfortunately, elegance are no longer the easy to keep animals they once were. The stocks of hardy, shallow water animals have been harvested, and the animals coming in now are from much deeper water, and melting down under reef lighting, so speaks the voice of experience. Good luck, and keep us informed, PF>

Elegance coral
09/04/03
<Hi Vance, PF with you today>
Hello Wetweb,
I have a question about elegant coral, but first the data. I have a 125 gallon tank that has been up for about 6 months. We upgraded from the 55 gallon tank that was being out grown. The Set up is, two 175 watt MH, 2 160 watt VHO actinic for lighting. 100 lbs of live rock and a 2-3 inch live sand bed. We have appx a steady 1600 gallon/per hour flow rate from a combination multiple powerheads. A 55 gallon refugium for filtering and micro shrimp production. The system has been very stable. 1.023 - .024 sg,  8.2 -8.4 ph, Ca 342ppm. 0 nitrites and Ammonia and Nitrates around 10 ppm.
I bought an elegant coral from my LFS that I knew was going to die if it was left in the store. It is about 12 inches in length and had already started to recede about 1 and a half inches. I read the article on your site about elegant corals. I placed it in the tank as instructed by the article, on its back with the mouths pointed up. It is in a moderate current, enough to gently move the tentacles, and it is very low in the tank. It is a purple tip, thus it is a deep water elegant coral.  I do not see signs of brown jelly, but the 1.5 inches was covered with a white skin like film. I bought this coral knowing that it would be difficult to save because of it's loss of tissue, but I really do not want to watch it just die off slowly. We are using the malachite green dip that this site recommended to another with a elegant coral receding, but have not seen an improvement thus far. Is there anything that I can do to try to save it?
Thank you,
Vance
<Unfortunately Vance, I recently purchased an elegance that did the same thing, and was unable to save it. You might try an iodine dip, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/iodfaqs.htm. While no one has seen an elegance skeleton produce an anthocauli (hope I spelled that one right), I'm keeping mine in my tank, as no one had seen a Trachyphyllia do that till last year either. You might also want to shade the coral, in talking to Steven Pro, he theorized it might be a reaction to the tank lights. I know the store I purchased mine from kept theirs under actinics only, and when I came back 3 weeks later, the other 2 for sale were still alive. Good luck, PF>

Elegance Coral Decline and Royal Gramma Demise
Hi Wetweb Crew,
>Hola, Manny.
I'm new to the hobby (3 months), but I have been reading articles and FAQs on your site from the start.  I have spent hours on your site, but still want some direct advice.
>Alright, I'll do my best.
Tank info: 55G with appropriately sized wet/dry, skimmer, UV sterilizer, 130 watts of PC, and two power heads.  40 lbs. of rock a .5 to 2 inch (depending on place) sand bed, mushrooms, leathers, sun polyps, and ELEGANCE coral.  Some hermits, an arrow crab, some snails, peppermints, and two cleaner shrimp.  I purchased the whole set up, including all corals and rock, for $600 (not bad).  
>Pretty good deal, yeah.
So the whole system is really more like 8 months old, including the corals.  The owner had no testing equipment, not even a hydrometer...he relied on weekly water changes with store bought salt water and he NEVER fed the corals.  
>Eek!
So everything in the tank was healthy and hardy.
Questions:
1.  The elegance coral, which I have been feeding shrimp to for the last three months and which improved since I bought it, recently started becoming more transparent at the base of some polyps...I can even see the white skeleton showing through the body of the polyp.  It is not water quality, unless a slight and quickly corrected nitrate spike of 40ppm could do it.  
>High nitrates can cause a decline, yes.  But what I'm not clear on is whether or not the elegance was already in the tank with the leathers, from the get go, so to speak.
It is not current because the head with the lowest and no direct current looks almost as bad as the head that gets hit by the return and worse than the head that gets moderate current.  Could it be calcium???
>I would tend to see low calcium levels being expressed in a lack of growth, but it could indeed be a factor.  You should have calcium levels up around 400-450ppm.
I have a test on the way to me.  Incidentally, your FAQs have denied this as a cause, but I recently added the shrimp, everything else has been there for months.  Could it be too much light?  No change in that recently.  HELP!
>Lighting...could be, but my money's more on allelopathy with those leathers.
2.  I have had bad luck with fish.  My two ocellaris clowns died of ich because I didn't act fast enough or well enough with copper and my fresh water dips came too late.  I ordered a yellow tang that was practically DOA.  I now have a Firefish, doing great, and a royal Gramma, DYING!!!  They both came with either Amyloodinium or some kind of infection on the skin.  I treated with copper and antibiotic and pH temp adjusted freshwater dips for the Gramma only twice...I don't think he can take it now.  His tail half rotted, but that cleared up and he started looking better all around, but now he won't eat and he just sits upright at the bottom of the QT (like at night) coughing now and then.  He looks weak...should I dip him again and risk killing him, like my clowns, or should I just hope?  Any ideas on getting him to at least eat?  I've tried frozen brine shrimp.. he used to love it.
>I wouldn't dip him again, I think that would be too stressful.  I am not normally a proponent, but many folks swear that garlic increases appetite, you may want to try it.  Also, nix the brine shrimp--nutritionally deficit.  A much better choice is Mysis shrimp.  Try fresh Mysis *if* you can get it (I know I can from a supplier locally), but I know that freshly cultured can be problematic.  I'm assuming that you're testing your q/t water religiously, and that ALL levels are at zero readings.  I would reduce lighting on him, keep the place a bit dim, try the garlic (some folks will spend lots of money on the extracts--since I've never used it I can't tell you if that is the way to go or if you can just make your own by crushing garlic), the Mysis, and keep treating him with a broad spectrum antibiotic.  My own preference is for Spectrogram, both gram positive and negative antibiotic.
THANKS FOR THE HELP AND THE GREAT SITE!  Manny     
>You're very welcome, and if you have a place you can remove the Elegance coral to, possibly in q/t, I would try that and see if it improves.  I will also recommend you get a good book on corals, the vote seems to go for Eric Borneman's book...can't recollect the name, though, but it should be easy enough to find on site.  Good luck!  Marina

Elegance problem
Hi!  I have a problem.  My elegance, purple tipped, was doing wonderfully until one of my fish started nipping at him.  I removed the fish but the elegance has stayed sucked in in the middle where I saw the fish nip at him.  Now other fish, a yellow tang, has begun to pass by and nip at him.  I fear he will not recover.  I moved him a little higher on the rock as many of my fish do not go there as much.  Is there anything I can do to help him heal?  He's near the top of my 75 gallon tank.  Please help - I do not want to lose him. <Kara, elegances can be fairly delicate. Moving him up was a wise idea but you might also check on some of the discussion groups about elegance corals. I seem to remember someone, I think Eric Borneman doing a study on these corals. They are known to just begin having problems out of the blue. I believe I read about this on www.fragexchange.com and www.reefcentral.com. The coral will need stable water conditions and good foods to recover but should recover if the nipping stops. MacL>

Elegance
Hi!
<Hello. Graham at your service.>  
I have a problem.
<Okay.>
My elegance, purple tipped, was doing wonderfully until one of my fish started nipping at him.  I removed the fish but the elegance has stayed sucked in in the middle where I saw the fish nip at him.  Now other fish, a yellow tang, has begun to pass by and nip at him.  I fear he will not recover.  I moved him a little higher on the rock as many of my fish do not go there as much.  Is there anything I can do to help him heal?  
<If the fish are bothering the elegance, either the coral or fish has to go. Unfortunately, once fish get the taste for the flesh of corals (Especially large polyped scleractinians, such as your elegance), they don't seem to give it up very easily. I can recommend, however, to feed the fish often, preferably small amounts throughout the day. This may stop the fishes urge to feed on the coral. Another point is that Yellow Tangs do not often nip at corals. Is the tang nipping at the fleshy area of the coral, or the skeleton? Secondly, how long does the coral stay "sucked in" after the fish nip at it? How long have you had the coral? Elegance corals are not very hardy, and many have a poor survival rate in captivity if not kept under certain water conditions. Generally, they prefer strong light and high nutrient levels, especially since the majority of elegance corals are being collected from shallow nutrient rich areas.>
He's near the top of my 75 gallon tank.  Please help - I do not want to lose him.
<I look forward to hearing a response from you. Elegance corals are indeed very beautiful. Take Care, Graham.>

Catalaphyllia EMERGENCY
Hi Bob!!
Just wanted to say a big THANK YOU for the advice and the services you provide online. Its great to see someone actually responding to emails coz I know a lot of message boards and FAQ's don't! Big Thanks!
My Catalaphyllia elegance coral seemed to be doing okay lately. but One day all of a sudden when I came home, it looked terrible!! All my water parameters are good (except nitrates a little high but I'm working on that ~ 20mg/l). I have been feeding it Mysis shrimp, probably not as much as I should be .. last time I fed it was about 5 days ago. I've had the coral for approx a month and a half now and it seemed to be doing okay - It's had its ups and downs (when sometimes it didn't look as good) but its never been as bad as this. << Is there anything else you have changed recently? >>  
Here are some pictures, I apologize for them being so big .. I'm not 100% sure how to shrink them, u probably don't have to look through all of them (about 10 pictures) but I've included one picture of it when its looking healthy and 9 of it when its looking pretty bad. As you can see, some patchy parts are swollen while other patchy parts of it are all shriveled up. Some of the oral disks are swollen and almost see-through.
http://photos.yahoo.com/catalaphyllia/
Its a fairly new tank. Other tank inhabitants are 2 clown fish, a tri colored damsel (not sure if that's what its called), a Radianthus anemone, leather coral, brain coral, Goniopora sp and a torch and daisy coral (I think that's what they're called - Euphyllias). Also, the coral is from Australia. (I'm located in Sydney)
would you have any idea what could be the problem? I don't think its a lighting issue although I think it would like it better with better lighting. << Please describe your lighting set up. >> But I have had the coral for about 1 and a half months in the same conditions but its never been this bad before. << It makes me think it wasn't really thriving before, but just taking its time to get to this point.  I would recommend moving the coral in the tank.  Nothing to lose.  Also, did you get it straight from the ocean, or did it come from a friend or a store.  If the latter, I would be comparing your tank to what the previous tank was like. >>
Thanks
Wallace
<< Sorry I can't be of more help. Adam B. >>

Help! regarding Elegance coral
Hi there,
        I was looking for more info about Elegance coral when I come across the very informative discussion that you put up on the web .
    I would need some advice from you. I just bought a elegance coral today.
   I need to know where is the recommended placement in the tank. << Most people put them on their sand, right in the front bottom portion of their tank. >> When you mentioned horizontal placement , does it mean that the coral is to be lie flat on its cone skeleton.<< Well, it depends on what you think looks good, but I like them facing up towards the light. >> Does this mean that if I place it on the substrate , it rest horizontally downward and its mouth is facing the front of tank? or is it supposed to be tilted at an angle?  << I've seen them in the wild and in tanks facing right up to the light.  This doesn't mean they need that, but I think that allows for the best photosynthesis.  Either way feeding it every week or so will also help out. >>
   Also , is it true that elegance should not be placed near to Live rock ? << I don't believe that.  They do live in sandy areas, but to me live rock is good for everything. >> For your advice pls. Thanks and Best Regards.
Alex
<<  Adam Blundell  >>

Elegance issues
Hi Crew
I have had an elegance coral for about 6 months now. everything has been great with it until recently. We have had 3 hurricanes in may area and the last 2 have caused power outages. I had a generator going but it was only enough to run the pumps on my 90 reef and 200 FOWLR, and run the lights some. I didn't run the chiller and to my dismay the temp in the 90 reef went to 85 The power was out for 2 days. a week after the power was restored I noticed in the center branch of the 3 branch elegance some of its tentacles missing, like they had been eaten? I then noticed the same on the left branch. The left branch has regenerated its tentacles but the center has deteriorated. much of the flesh has receded and exposed the skeleton. the tissue left looks fine and healthy, but there seems to be more exposed skeleton every day. the other branches seem healthy. what should I do??
>>I would do nothing other than your regular routine. Anything different will stress the coral more and it sounds like the damage is done, so best leave it alone to heal.
Also, I am not aware of a branching elegance - perhaps what you have is actually a hammer or a torch or a frogspawn.
Rich>>