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Flame Angel-Eye Injury? 3/7/20 Flame Angel with Injured Fin 4/3/17
Sick Flame Angel
12/25/16 Flame Angel.... Dying... soft corals? 6/27/16 Loricula quarantine
9/17/14 Flame Angel fin damage
12/10/12 flame angelfish losing color
11/29/12
New Flame Angel Sudden Death 6/28/12 Question about a Flame Angel and Green Hair
Algae 2/3/12 Flame angel behavior? 12/9/11
Flame Angel HLLE battle
5/31/11
Flame Angel/Centropyge Health 3/4/2011 Suicidal Flame Angel 1/10/11 Hey again and Happy New Year! Damaged Centropyge,
loricula 1/3/11
Flame angel lump
II 11/10/10 mystery death (or deaths) 10/23/10 flame angel diseases, Importer
4/7/10
Help For My Flame Angel 3/9/10 Flame Angel/Angel Disease 2/9/10 Flame Angel's Sudden Death/Centropyge Health
12/10/09
Sudden Flame Angel Illness... Mmm, more like long-term stress, env. 3/20/09 Flame angel with ich, 8/27/08 Hi, I recently purchased a flame angel. <Hello> Within a few days of being in my quarantine tank he started developing white spots on his fins. <Glad you QTed I bet.> I read that angels are sensitive to copper so I decided to try hyposalinity. <Not as sensitive as some others, chelated copper is often tolerated and effective. otherwise I might try quinine here.> I have had the salinity at 1.012 for four days and been giving him daily freshwater dips for 5-8 minutes. <This is not low enough, 1.009 is where you need to be, and you need to be accurate, use a refractometer.> After the first dips the ich seemed to disappear only to come back with a vengeance two days later. <Typical of the Ich parasite.> He now has many white spots on his body as well as his fins. He is still eating well, doesn't scratch against anything, but he does seem irritated and a little jumpy. <Probably uncomfortable.> Should I start treating with copper and slowly raise the salinity? <I would, but make sure to use chelated copper.> I worry about waiting too long before trying something else because the last fish I had that got the ich died because I started treating him with copper a day after he stopped eating. <Quick action does help, but so does a good plan. Daily water changes and siphoning of the bottom of the tank will help reduce the number of parasites until a proper copper treatment can begin.> The ich went away but he never ate again. I also worry that if the hyposalinity starts working it won't completely kill off the ich and the angel will carry it to my main tank. Thanks, Brendon <If done correctly hypo should work, but it is more difficult than it seems due to the small window of effectiveness, too low and the fish suffers, too high and the ich keeps on going. I would use a chelated copper here.> <Chris> Re: Gas Bubble Disease? -- 07/10/08 Hi Crew, Still having my
troubles with my pesky flame angel. (1) At first he had a clear bubble
above his eye after being in the quarantine tank for two days, however,
just like Bob predicted the bubble eventually subsided 4 days later
<Ah, good> (2) Everything had been going great with the fish for
the next 2 weeks. (No signs of any illness and fish was eating was
eating like a little piggy.) However, last week (approx. 3 weeks after
being in quarantine) the fish began a hunger strike, refusing interest
in all food. (He had been eating everything (pellets, frozen food,
flakes) and picking at the walls of the aquarium, filter, heater, and
PVC stop) <Perhaps just the quarantine> After a couple of days,
and after reading similar prob.s on your website, I decided to place a
piece of live rock from my display tank in the quarantine tank to see
if he would pick off the live rock. <Good> At this time The fish
still showed no signs of any illness (i.e. no fin rot, no spots, no
clamped fins, etc..) - only refused to eat. The fish has been in
quarantine for almost 4 weeks now, and still has not returned to
eating. However, i have noticed now that his gills have become paler
and are contracting faster. He still swims around normal and appears
not be struggling. (However, Every once and awhile it will appear as
though he tries to scratch his eye on pvc piping). <I would move
this fish to a larger, well-established setting...> Now my
predicament, I'm not sure what, if anything, is wrong with the
fish. I would like to treat him if something is wrong with him. Please
advise as what treatment might be necessary. <Mmm, not> Also i am
very confused on what to do with the live rock in the quarantine. I
don't want to treat the QT with meds that will kill the live rock,
but am wary of placing the rock back into the display tank because of
the new issues with the Flame Angel. Please Help. Lastly, i was
considering doing a bath and/or dip with ParaGuard. <? What for?>
However, the directions on the bottle do not indicate whether it is to
be a FW or saltwater dip/bath. <Can be used for either> My QT is
20 gallon long A Marineland emperor 280 power filter heater PVC pipes
Heater ph: 8.2 ammonia: 0 nitrite: 0 nitrate:0-5 Thanks for all your
help <Move this fish; it's "problem" is environmental.
Bob Fenner> Flame Angel and Fin Rot 05/2/2008 Clear Day, Hello.. Just found this site, I cannot wait to read more. I have a question for you all. <<Sounds good, fire at will>> I have a 39 gallon "eclipse" aquarium. I have used it as a saltwater tank the last 4 years. I have 3 clown fish, 2 hermit crabs, and just bought (3 weeks ago) a flame angel and a yellow lighthouse goby. All is well, everyone eats the frozen shrimp and the frozen angel food when I put it in the tank which has been about 1 cube 4 times a week. I also sprinkle in some flake food that everyone eats as well. I bought an algae clip but they show very very little interest in it? <<Does not surprise me, as the algae clip itself probably would not taste very nice.....bum bum....sorry, British humor there. Seriously, the fish you have are more of a meat eating range of fish for their diet>> I have good salinity and PH. The ammonia is almost non-existent. BUT here is the problem... The Flame Angel is showing evidence of tail rot as well as his right body fin is looking a little rotted too. Today I noticed that his tail fin is starting to show rot too. He still swims ok, and eats but I know this cannot be good. What medicine can I safely put into the tank to treat him? Also, no one else (so-far) shows signs of rot... Thanks again.. <<I would give this fish a FW dip in pH adjusted water and return to the tank. Please read here on dips/baths http://wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm and linked articles and FAQ's for thoughts and logic.>> Scott <<Thanks for the questions Scott, hope this helps. A Nixon>> <RMF would move this fish to larger quarters, with lots of live rock...> Flame Angel will not eat while being treated... coppered 3/1/08 Hi guys, I bought a flame angel fish and placed him in my 10 gallon quarantine tank. He was doing well and eating every type of frozen meaty foods that I fed him in addition to eating algae from a clip that I put in the tank daily. He was eating voraciously for over a week and now unfortunately he has come down with a case of Ich. I am treating the tank with Copper but now he has stopped eating. He hasn't eaten for 3 days and he seems to be hanging in with the copper treatment but I'm afraid he'll die from starvation while I am trying to cure the Ich. Do you have any advice for how I can get him to eat? I have tried putting some food in the tank but he just lets it float by and does not go after it like he did before. I'd hate to lose this fish! Any advice you could offer would be much appreciated! Thanks, Lynne <The copper... is mal-affecting this fish... causes it to go off-feed... I would NOT pre-emptorily copper Centropyge, Angels period... See WWM re Copper use, poisoning... I would summarily dip/bath and move this Flame to the main/display tank. Bob Fenner> My flame angel seems to have fin rot/tail rot and the sides of his body is looking a bit whitish. Using WWM 3/1/08 I can't catch him to get him out the tank and into a QT. I have other fish in the tank, live rock (he keeps hiding in it of course) and some soft corals. mostly mushrooms and Zoanthids.. I know I really need to get him out of the tank but really don't seem to be able to do so. My question: If I have to treat the whole tank with Maracyn Two what will it do to the corals and live rock? <Mmm, don't want to put antibiotics in your main display, no> I keep seeing that it doesn't harm inverts but that's all I've seen except that you really should try a QT. Thanks so much - Kelly <.... read: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm Part. the areas on Antibiotic, Antimicrobial use. RMF> Flame Angel QT question 02/220/2008 Hi guys, <<Hello, Andrew here>> I just purchased a Flame Angel for my 55 gallon tank w/invertebrates and tons of live rock. The tank's been up and running for 4 years and this fish is the last one I plan to add to the tank already inhabited by an ocellaris clownfish, royal Gramma and a Sixline wrasse. <<Ok, sounds good>> I have a ten gallon QT with live rock in it and usually keep my new arrivals in it for a full month before I transfer them into my main tank. <<I would remove the live rock from the quarantine tank as this has the capacity to harbour parasites and could be passed along to other fish added to the quarantine tank>> Since the flame angelfish is my largest fish and likes more space, what time frame do you recommend I keep it in my QT before transfer? So far it is eating well and is swimming normally. <<Sounds great. Stick to your one month routine, this is an adequate amount of time, and recommended, for quarantining fish>> Thanks for your advice. Lynne <<Thanks for the questions. Hope this helps. A Nixon>> Sick Flame Angel, no useful info.... Not following directions in writing us -- 02/07/08 I bought a Flame Angel 1 1/2 weeks ago. After 1 week in a QT he started to develop what looked like some small white blotches on the transparent parts of his tail and fins. Small at first and getting larger after a few days. <Mmm, may be just/simple residual effect from capture, handling...> He now has a covering over his eyes and they look like they may be bulging out slightly but it may be the fungus covering them. His color has also faded. I contacted the dealer I purchased him from when I first noticed the blotches and he thought it may be Ick. It did not look like any examples of Ick I could find. It appeared more like a fungus to me. I contacted another dealer who agreed that it was probably a fungus. I have been treating him with an antibiotic for 4 days, Maracyn 2, <Do watch your nitrification...> and although he is still active he is not feeding and is not improving any. I have done 2 water changes and checked the water daily and all the readings are good. <...? Of no use... need data> Any help you may be able to give me will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Shawn <... Okay... read on WWM re Crypt, Centropyge loricula... Start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm http://wetwebmedia.com/flameangdisfaqs.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner> Flame Angel eating problems - 1/24/08 Hi Bob and
gang, <Joe> I'm concerned about a Flame Angel that I
purchased about a month ago. I checked some of the articles on the web
site, but I couldn't find one that fit my exact situation. I have a
135 G Reef tank (other fish, all in the tank over a year, 3 Percula
Clowns, Yellow Tang, Hippo Tang, Gramma & Coral Beauty) with about
100 lbs of live rock. When the Flame was introduced about a month ago
he adapted quickly, almost immediately grazing the rocks and showing no
outward signs of stress. There also was no real aggressive behavior
from the other tank mates (including the Coral Beauty). With in a week
the Flame was starting to eat some of the frozen brine shrimp (I
usually add Vita-Chem and garlic) and Spirulina flake food. A week
later he was aggressively going after food I put in the tank. It was
all good. Unfortunately, I've noticed some recent changes. The
Flame has stopped grazing the rock and appears to have what can only be
described as swollen lips. <Mmmm, not good> He also seems to have
his mouth constantly open. <Very bad> The odd thing is that he
still aggressively comes to the surface for food (like the frozen brine
shrimp), but I noticed he'll then swim off and spit it all out? Any
clue as to why this would be happening? Is it a sign of a certain
disease? I'll admit, the Flame Angel is one of my favorite fish,
but did you ever have that one fish that you never seem to have much
success with? For me that's been the Flame Angel. Any thoughts
would be appreciated. Thanks, Joe <This Loricula was very likely
damaged in collection, holding, shipping... not uncommon with ones from
the Marshalls... Its prognosis is dim. Don't know much else to
state that is pertinent, useful... Maybe contact your dealer so they
can in turn notify folks (not likely) "up the line"... Not
likely "something catching" here... Bob Fenner>
Flame Angel with Damaged Fins Mystery 10/27/07 Greetings, <Salutations> I recently purchased a flame angelfish from an on-line retailer that I had good luck with before. However, the fish arrived with pectoral fins about half the size they should be for this sized fish (about 3.5" long). <Interesting... genetic? Damage?> The fins also have a very slight black line at their edge. <Mmm, some of this can be natural... Centropyge loricula do have some black edging in some "races"... geographic difference...> I thought at first this could be formalin burn as I have seen this with flame angels exposed to formalin. <Mmm, possibly> I called the retailer and they assured me that formalin is not used on any fish. I have no reason to doubt them as they have been very straightforward in the past. They also stated that the fish looked fine when it left their facility. I next thought ammonia burn, but after checking the water in the shipping bag it had very little ammonia (about .25 ppm, pH 7.6). <And the shortened pecs would not occur to be burnt back this much, this quickly... without the demise of the animal assuredly> The fins are relatively smooth at the edge, just really short. <Again... perhaps a heritable characteristic. Happens> I am thinking the fish arrived at the retailer in this condition and they just didn't notice. <Likely so> In any event, the fish is acclimating well, eating on the second day in quarantine. However, I am concerned about possible ammonia exposure previously that could lead to this fish declining later on. <Such damage should be adjusted for within weeks... Like ourselves, fishes regenerate blood cells quite regularly, quickly... Other ancillary challenges are made up for about as rapidly> Given the effort and time required for quarantining a fish, I don't want to start with a fish that is doomed down the road. What are your thoughts? Will the fins ever grow back to normal size. <Mmm, not if genetically determined, no> What should I lookout for? <General health, good behavior... I would not be overly concerned, and don't consider this specimen "doomed", if as you state it appears to be acclimating well... I would just "chalk up" the small paired fins and enjoy this fish> Thanks Much, Greg <Welcome. Bob Fenner> Flame Angel Scratching... English??? 9/1/07
I've had a flame angel in a bare bottom quarantine tank for about a
week.? <? I don't know, have you?> Tank parameters OK,
ammonia 0, nitrite 0.1 (watching to go down to 0), nitrate 10-15 ppm,
pH 8.2 (has dropped as low as 7.9).? Fish is doing well and eating.?
<What is with the ? marks?> However, occasionally fish will
scratch on objects using corner of mouth, not gill plates or sides.?
Fish will shake and shudder right after scratching and then continue on
normally.? Happens about once an hour.? No rapid breathing.? Did not do
this for first 5 days.? I've been treating with 0.5 ppm Cupramine
<Too high if this is free cupric ion being measured, and the cause
of the odd behavior here...> for one week as prophylactic (I know
this is controversial), no signs of Cryptocaryon at all.? Started
treatment with Metronidazole and Praziquantel for other possible
gill/skin parasites.? Seems to have helped, but fish is still
scratching on corner of mouth less frequently.? Nothing visible in that
area.? Any suggestions?? Do I keep in quarantine until all scratching
stopped.? What if scratching doesn't stop, but fish seems fine
otherwise after two weeks of quarantine?? Don't want to lose this
fish as it is a large specimen with great coloration. Thanks Greg <I
can't figure out what you are getting at. Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm
and the linked files above. BobF> Ongoing Flame Angel problems... iatrogenic
8/3/07 Hi WWM crew! You've been a most invaluable resource for me
for several years now and I have tried to refrain from bothering you on
this one, but I am at the end of my rope here. I know you're going
to fuss at me but I'm ready to take it. I've searched your
FAQ's for answers and have an idea but I don't want to do
anything to make this situation worse. I have a 39 gallon <Too small
for this species> FOWLR, one huge feather duster that came with LR
purchased about 3 years ago, 2 turbo snails, 1 yellow tail blue damsel,
1 percula clown and a bicolor Dottyback. <Likely a problematical
mis-mix here> I purchased a flame angel on June 23rd, and he/she/it
came down with Popeye after 3 weeks. I assumed (I know, I know) it was
an injury because it was only one eye but I panicked and got some blue
medicine <?> from my fish store and treated it for an hour for 3
consecutive days in a (sorry) 2 gallon bucket of water from the main
tank. The guy at the store checked my water and determined that it was
fine. He didn't have the medicine to sell me but gave me some from
their stash in the back of the store. So I'm not sure what it was
but Anyway, it cleared up for about 2 weeks, and guess what it came
back, popped and left again and now is back with a vengeance in both
eyes. <Something amiss with the environment... too small, the
Dottyback...> I fear this angel is a goner. It hasn't eaten
anything for 2 days now. I have been feeding a combination of flake and
frozen with VitaChem drops added, have been doing 4 gallon water
changes every week. ( I went on vacation changed the water before I
left but I'm sure my niece over fed them so I changed it again when
I got home) I was wondering about getting furazdidone/Nitrofurazone
comb. and get her in some type of quarantine and treat her. Marina (?)
in one of her answers suggested a new plastic tub with a sponge filter
and heater to use as an emergency. Yes, the next 60.00 I spend will be
on a quarantine tank you can believe that. I guess you guys get sick of
giving advice and people not taking it huh? <At times...> If this
angel dies I'm giving up school nursing and moving to Fiji. <Oh!
See you t/here. Bula!> Thank you in advance, Sue <Please read on
WWM re: http://wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm and the linked files
above. This fish should be moved to more suitable quarters... sans the
Pseudochromid. Bob Fenner> Flame Angel Emergency? 7/17/07 Hi Crew, Hate
to bother, I am trying to read to find the answer to this but as I sit
here reading my Flame Angel is appearing to get worse. He is 5 days old
in quarantine with a skunk cleaner I bought just to put in there with
him. The tank is a 10g with a sponge filter, heater, one power head a
piece of live rock I put in there with some algae for him to graze. He
seemed to enjoy picking at the rock work and sponge and stuff more than
interest in food, Although he has eaten bits of food as well. Well I
got home tonight and he was in the bottom of the tank and spun around
really hard against the bottom of the tank. Seems to only want to swim
backwards. There is no discoloration I can see, no spots... now has
himself suspended upside down against the outflow of the powerhead. His
fins do not appear ragged but raised. Salinity is 1.26 (to high?)
<Perhaps you mean 1.026... This would be fine> ph 8.2 dKH was at
12 nitrates, ammonia and nitrites all 0. Water change was done tonight
quickly after noticing his behavior. Was acting like the current of the
water is what is moving him about so I turned off the powerhead,
breathing does seem to be faster than normal. Any help ASAP would be so
appreciated as I would hate to lose this fish. If I am doomed to loose
him an insight into what would be causing this would also be greatly
appreciated. Thank you so much Sandra Caldwell <I am concerned that
the shrimp may be perhaps predating the Flame... I would move it out
stat... and consider dipping, moving the Angel if its behavior did not
improve in a day hence. Bob Fenner> Flame Angelfish/Health 7/16/07 Dear Crew, I have a reef aquarium that houses two fish, a Flame Angel and a Firefish. My question is about the angelfish which I've owned for about one month. Since it was acclimated to my tank it has progressively developed a dark smudge-like blemish on its head above its eyes. The charcoal colored blemish appears to be spreading. I'm afraid this may be a sign of malnutrition or stress. <Bingo!> The fish seems to eat well. It eats Mysis Shrimp twice daily <Need a more varied diet and most importantly, soak the food with Selcon, or similar product rich in fatty acids, before feeding.> and is constantly picking algae from the rock contained in the aquarium (though this algae is only a thin coating). I also provide seaweed via a clip every other day. The fish also does not appear to be stressed. It boldly swims throughout the entire tank and approaches me as I come to feed each day. Have you seen this condition before? Should I be concerned? <A pic would help provide a better answer, but your main goal is to provide the excellent water quality and diet which this fish requires. Do read here and linked files above for more information on keeping this beautiful fish. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm> I always appreciate your helpfulness and expertise! Thank you. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Question on Flame Angel health 12/5/06 Hello, First off, thank you so much for all of the valuable information on the website. <Welcome> I have been reading/researching many items on the website for many years, and this is the first time I have had to ask a question that I couldn't find anywhere. What I have encountered is a white spot on the "nose" of a new flame angel. The spot is very small and in between his eye and mouth. It almost appears to be on the "barbell" that protrudes from the nostrils. <Good description> The fish has been in a 29 gallon quarantine tank for five weeks, with a royal Gramma and neon goby. No other fish show signs of illness. <Mmm, am not so sure this is an illness either> The quarantine tank has about 25 lbs of live rock, aqua c remora skimmer, and 2 powerheads. I did ten days of treatment with Kordon's Ich attack, when all the fish were introduced to quarantine. <Ahh! A clue> Performed a 20% water change, reintroduced carbon to tank, and observed the fish for three weeks. At about the fourth week is when I noticed the spot, removed carbon, and begun another treatment period with the Ich attack. I am now on the tenth day of treatment and haven't seen the spot disappear. <Is not "ich" or other treat-able protozoan infestation, assuredly> Unfortunately the flame moves so much I can't get a good picture of the spot as it is fairly faint in color. The flame is very active, attentive, very hungry (always eats, and eagerly comes to the front of the tank when I enter the room), <Good behavior> the flame also grazes the rocks often, and shows no other signs of illness. Other tank parameters, specific gravity is 1.024, Ph ~ 8.1, Calcium 435, no detectable nitrates, nitrites, or ammonia. I am anxious to get the fish in my display tank before the holidays, so I can observe his transition into that tank (75 gallon), but thought I would consult the experts first. Thank you in advance for your feedback, i truly value your opinion. (Whoever answers :) ) Matt <I fully suspect that this mark is not pathogenic... and would place this animal in my/your main/display system at this juncture. Bob Fenner> Flame Angel
has a mouth (jaw) problem - 11/13/06 My friend has had a
Flame Angel in quarantine for 4 1/2 weeks now. We noticed at 4 weeks
that he had some scales near his left eye that were either pale or
maybe gone. <Keen observation> We of course decided to keep him
in the QT until he got better. He is eating just fine and the tank gets
regular water changes. He's being fed mysis shrimp, emerald entree,
and dried algae. He eats everything just fine. However, we noticed last
night when we fed him some algae that his jaw will extend out while
he's pecking at it and it looks like it's become dislocated.
<Might have been damaged in capture, holding, shipping... this
happens> It will stick out for awhile and then he seems to be able
to pop it back in to normal. I've never seen this before. When he
jaw is sticking out it almost looks like their might be some tissue
missing around his mouth. I can't tell if this is just because
it's stretched out or if he's losing tissue around his mouth.
Hopefully you guys have some ideas on what to do. Thanks!
Steve
<Best to maintain in an optimized setting, perhaps to supplement,
soak foods in a vitamin et al. prep... and consider (I would) moving
this fish to the main display ASAPractical. Bob Fenner> Flame Angelfish Eye Damage, Follow-up 10/19/06 Hey, thanks for the quick reply. <Heh... well I apologize this response was not as timely.> Sorry I didn't specify- these "New" tanks are 20 gallon quarantine tanks, each set up with a well established Emperor 400 biofilter. 4L water changes are performed daily. I'll test the water at the lab tomorrow however, and find out if anything is amiss. <Well... can also try some Epsom salts, about one tbsp per five gallons... can help reduce the swelling.> Kevin J. <Cheers, J -- > Flame Angel...Feeding/Health 9/16/06 Hi there!!! <Hi.> I have a quick question that I need to ask...Been looking through WWM and can't find anything that will help me. I just purchased a Flame Angel not too long ago and I have been feeding it only meaty food like Mysis, brine, and blood worms. He loves this stuff so much to the point where he won't eat any greens I toss in. Will this all meaty diet affect my flame angel's health? <Should be fine. He will get some algae supplement from picking at rock. Might want to try some Ocean Nutrition Algae Formula and add a vitamin supplement such as Selcon to the diet.> Thank you for your help!!! <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> - Flame Angel Problems 6/27/06 - Hello WWM Crew, I have a 75
gallon aquarium, all tests and temperature are
normal. However, I have a flame angel that is over a year
old and is suddenly not eating, acting very skittish (hiding) and
losing colour. It was the queen of the tank and a very active fish
before now. We haven't changed anything or added
anything recently to explain the behaviour and apparent
illness. She doesn't have any spots or obvious signs of
disease. I didn't see anything in the existing database
that matched our description, so I thought I would email. Thank You!
Melissa W. <Melissa, this is a curious situation made more curious
because you didn't reveal anything about your tank husbandry.
Specifically, how often do you change your water? Have you done any
water tests lately? What were the results? Have you changed the water
since you've observed this problem? Fill us in with some more
specifics and we'll try to speculate with a little more detail.
Cheers, J -- > Flame Angel with Ich 6/17/06 Hi.. <Hi> Is it possible for a flame angel to develop itch due to being released into a new environment? <Only if the Ich parasite is present.> I have a flame angel who developed itch when I first released him into the display tank, so I put him into a QT tank with daily freshwater baths, and when I placed him back into the display tank he developed itch again. <FW baths are only marginally effective with Ich.><<And the system is still infested... RMF>> What's the best course of action? I'm hesitant to take him out again because that would stress the copperband and I refuse to buy a cleaner wrasse due to the information on your site and cleaner shrimps are very expensive here in Australia. Thanks for your help. A <Remove all fish to QT, treat with copper or other proven remedies. Allow tank to run fallow (fishless) for 6 to 8 weeks. More details can be found here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm .> <Chris> Flame Angel, read the FAQs and didn't see anything that fits
the issue in my tank. 3/30/06 Hello Guys and Gals.
<James... Di's family lived/s on Jewell Street there in
Garfield> My question is on my flame angel. I read the FAQs and also
the sections on disease. Now, either I am not seeing the
symptoms/situation I have or I am misidentifying/not seeing clearly
enough my fish's abnormality. A short while ago (month or two)
there was a little white or what looked more like whitish scales (I
hope I am describing this well enough) 'of' the fish around the
face area. The color on the rest of the body and fins is quite
brilliant and the fish feeds aggressively enough. The cleaner shrimp
will no longer clean the fish since the fish picks at its whiskers.
Maybe these are scales that need to be removed by the shrimp (by why
wouldn't they be elsewhere?)? <Don't know> Of note, there
are no noticeable salt crystal dots to denote ich; nor strange
behavior. It likes mysis, flake food, prime reef, takes dried seaweed
and the garlic pellets... basically anything food that comes its way.
It is by no means thin or underfed; I place its BMI at a level of the
best I have seen in any store or picture. Just the area around the face
is puzzling. <Perhaps "just" mucus... from an irritation,
injury... a "bump in the night". Happens> My regimen for
the 75 mega-flow tank: 9-12% weekly water changes, pH 8.3 and yes I add
marine buffer (the 8.3 crystal stuff, I don't have the container
here or I would give the name) which I premix, 0 NO2, 10ppm NO3, kH of
250-300 and the temperature is a very constant 77-78F. I do add small
amounts of Kalkwasser daily which is mixed into the fresh water top off
in the morning; this has been a tremendous gain for the frogspawn and
other inverts in the tank. I have approximately 80 pounds of live rock.
Lighting is timed and I have power compacts running. As
heat will soon be an issue I will slowly start to cut back light
time... about 15 minutes every 3-4 weeks until I am down to a shorter
cycle that will allow for less heat build. What should I be looking at
or looking for to identify what these white/clear 'scales' are?
Should I consider quarantine (providing I can catch the wily gent!) for
this fish? <Mmm, containment.... that the area is improving> The
area of this is slowly increasing not decreasing. I do have another
cleaner shrimp in a separate tank... this one might be more inclined to
clean since it has not been picked at. What I believe I see just
doesn't fit what I have read on the site thus far. Maybe it
isn't anything to be concerned over but your input and opinion is
deeply appreciated as my experience is only about a year in the hobby
now so I don't always know, or trust, what I really am seeing at
times. Sincerely, James Zimmer <I would switch out, add the other
cleaner and see if this helps. You are soaking foods in Selcon or eq.?
Bob Fenner> Angel In Distress? 12/29/05 To the WWM Crew <Scott F. with you tonight!> Bob, thank you very much for your help about the Brooklynella/formalin but I think that my move was too late... Now I have another problem with a beautiful and young Flame. He is in another QT , 30 Lt. He arrived 6 days ago, is eating, and his behavior is ok. Something is wrong because is color is becoming pale and there white powder on is fins (not transparent). Sometimes he scratch the pvc tubes on the tank bottom. <Hmm...could be ich or some other parasitic illness.> I put CopperSafe in the tank, and will wait till tomorrow. So, please tell me if I must do something else. Best regards Flavio <Well, Flavio, if you suspect parasitic illness, medication is not a bad idea. However, do exercise caution with copper and Centropyge angels, which are notoriously sensitive to it. Monitor copper levels constantly and adjust as necessary to maintain a proper therapeutic dosage. Be ready to remove the fish or dilute the copper levels if the fish shows signs of distress ("burning" fins, loss of appetite, etc.). Formalin is preferred with these fishes. If you are very attentive, and continue observing and monitoring the copper level, you can be successful with this! Follow the manufacturer's recommendations on dosage and duration of the treatment to the letter. Good luck! Regards, Scott F.> Formalin and Flame Angel - 1/6/06 To the WWM Crew
<Jose> As you suggest I change the medication for the Flame
Angel. Just to remember, I began with CopperSafe because the fish was
not eating, was hiding and scratching. He also as the fins very
"cloudy" (not transparent) and losing his general and
beautiful orange color, becoming very pale. So, I put 5 formalin drops
in the 25 litres QT and good aeration. He is much better in the next
morning, swimming and eating and with a little improvement about the
paleness. In order to free him of that formalin water I made two 50%
water changes in different days and he seems to continue in good health
condition. Two days ago, the same symptoms came back and today I put
another 5 formalin drops in the QT. Please tell me if my procedure is
ok. If I put/add some Methylene Blue it would be prophylactic ?
<Yes. Worthwhile to add here> In another QT's I have 2
ocellaris and an C. heraldi. They are doing very well. Do you think it
would be a prophylactic attitude to add some Mt. Blue to the other
tanks or just let them "in peace" ? <I would add the
Methylene Blue here as well> Best regards, and thank you very much
for your "old" and very informative site. Grateful for your
daily job Flavio <Thank you my friend. Bob Fenner> Marine Centropyges: Flame Angel Rescue 10/27/05 Hi,
crew. <Hi Roger.> I urgently need help in how to best care for a
small Flame Angel I just rescued from the tanks of a major pet
supplier. <I understand how hard it is to see a fish suffer,
heck even I might be suckered in, darn human emotions. To the point
though, rescuing fish will only encourage folks to order and sell more
fish in poor conditions.> This poor fish was crammed into one
of their small display tanks with about 10 Purple Tangs, a Coral
Beauty, several Fire fish, and dozen or more Ocellaris Clown fish ( two
of which were on the bottom) . <Disgusting.> Their
fish arrive on Wednesday and I frequently stop by to see what's
new. Imagine my horror to see this beautiful fish being tormented by
the Purple Tangs and unable to escape. The flame was clearly distressed
and obviously had only a couple of hours to live. After summoning the
manager and voicing my displeasure about the flame's
accommodations. We both looked for a suitable tank for it to recover.
It took only a moment to realize this fish was doomed with no place to
go. I now have a stressed-out Flame Angel at home in a 10 gal.
tank. <In a quarantine tank this small, I would do daily water
changes.> I bought it with the understanding that if it died I
would get a refund or a replacement. The fish seems disoriented, though
it is swimming around. It was so stressed that I skipped the usual FW
dip. I didn't believe it would survive. <I agree with your
actions.> The lights are off and have offered no food. Will do
so tomorrow. I used water from my display tank, and a small Aqua Clear
power filter, heater and PVC pipe for shelter. Other than that, I
don't know what else to do other than wait. <You are on the
right track. Monitor for signs of disease there may very be some from
the conditions you describe at the store. Provide pristine water
conditions and offer a varied diet perhaps with a nutritional
supplement like Selcon.> <<It's also time to start
offering food, animal cannot repair/heal itself without
nutrients. Nori, romaine, something it can free-feed on, along
with meaty foods offered twice daily (don't leave in tank, siphon
off uneaten), and do perform those daily water changes.
MH>> I appreciate any thoughts or advise. Thanks, Roger
<Welcome, Adam J.> Centropyge loricula Rescue - Update 11/18/05 Hi, to Adam, Marina and crew. <<Hello, Marina today.>> Don't know if you recall, but about a month ago I rescued a Flame Angel that was being abused; nearly to death, by its tank mates. <<I most certainly do!>> Happy to report that all is much better. <<Fabulous!>> He has made a remarkable recovery considering his near death experience. He's eating well and active, with no visible signs or behavior of disease. I'm upgrading my existing system to a 90 gal. this weekend and considered including him in the move, but probably not. <<He's living the phat life right now, isn't he? Good on you, my friend.>> I did include a small LR and some Chaeto in his tank and he spends his time browsing and picking. You were so much help during this process, I thought you'd like to know. <<All will be quite heartened to read of this - how about a stand up for conscientious aquarists!?! HEAR HEAR! <stands up and cheers> >> Thank You! Though this may turn out to be a success story, there were times I wish I'd just walked away, as I'm sure I just got lucky. <<The fish got lucky, you were patient and diligent, persistent.>> Best wishes to all and thanks again, Roger <<Very glad to read of this, and may your little Flamer live the longest of lives, happy munching and all that. Marina>> Flame angel not looking good, please advise 10/10/05 Hello
again WWM crew, <Howdy> I have another question, this one
concerning a flame angel I just purchased. Situation is this, I just
purchased a 2.5'' flame angel and 8 ~1'' blue green
Chromis. All were drip acclimated and put into a 20 gal long qt tank.
<Ooops... too many damsels/stress at once in a small space> The
qt tank is being kept at 83 degrees and has some plastic pipe fittings
for cover. After introducing fish to quarantine I noticed the flame had
what appeared to be a sticker, like you or I would get from walking
around in the woods. It was black about a quarter inch long and had
what appeared to be a spike stuck in his side. <Good description...
likely a crustacean parasite> I looked through my copies of The
Conscientious Marine Aquarist and Reef Invertebrates and found nothing
similar. My first thought was then to do a freshwater dip. I did this
the first day I had him and also on the second for about 10 min.s each,
the "sticker" still remained. I performed a third dip
on the next day and at the end was very surprised that the sticker
still remained. At the end of the third dip I picked the flame up in a
very fine mesh net and pulled the sticker off with a pair of tweezers,
<Good> whole process lasted less than 30 seconds. I don't
know if it was the right thing to do, but he seemed to be favoring that
side and it clearly was bothering him. After removing the sticker and
putting him back in the qt tank I noticed the small spike that was at
the base was still in his side, it is about 1 mm in length. He has been
swimming near the bottom for about 36 hours now in a 12'' by
6'' area. He has eaten a few pieces of bloodworms that I have
put in for the Chromis. His coloring is still very good, but I have
noticed that where the sticker is, his scales are slightly raised into
what I would call a bump. I also noticed today that he had a few small
white spots on his shoulder. I am wondering if this is ich, or just a
result of all the stress he has been put through. <Likely the
latter> So far the Chromis are doing great (schooling as I hoped)
and all have eaten. I am wondering what you would advise me to do about
the flame though. My plan until I hear back from you is to continue my
every other day 20%(4 gal) water changes from my main tank, and once a
day feedings of bloodworms. Thanks for all the past help, and future
help I'm sure you will provide. Cory <I would dip and move the
Flame if it appears to disimprove <<You made up that word,
didn't you Bob?>>... and next time if there is... I'd
daub the area of the "head" exit wound with an antiseptic
after removing such external parasites. Bob Fenner> What is this? Flaming out of the hobby 8/17/05 I am a new aquarist and about a week ago I added a Flame Angel to my 55 gal tank. To give you a brief description of my tank, I have about 40lbs of live rock, some snails, some red legged hermits, 3 sally Lightfoots, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 pink spotted watchman goby, 1 juvi regal tang, <Not a good choice period, and definitely not for such a small system> 1 ocellaris clown, 2 yellowtail damsels (I'm trying to get these guys out but catching them is a challenge- any suggestions?) <Posted, on WWM> and my new flame. A couple of days ago I noticed My flame wasn't using one of his pectoral fins to swim. Upon closer observation I noticed that at there was a white spot at the base of the pectoral fin on his body and this spot was swollen. <... you did/n't quarantine...?> It seemed as if the fin was ripped out of the socket. Last night I noticed that part of his caudal fin was frayed and there were tiny white spots on the caudal fin. Any ideas on what this might be and how I can treat it? I initially thought it was some sort of Dropsy that are common to dwarf Angels but the white spots on the caudal fin are throwing me off. The fish itself is eating well although swimming a little awkward. <... much to relate to you... and not much time. Please start reading here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/flameangdisfaqs.htm then on to the root web of WWM proper, re Crypt... you are in danger of losing all your fish livestock. Bob Fenner> ?... Dead Flame Angel, toxicity of fish med.s... 8/20/05 Thanks for being honest, I really appreciate what you guys do here. I started a QT last night with aged salt-water from my local pet shop - it had some live rock in it so beneficial bacteria was present. My water tests were all at acceptable levels. I moved all the fish from the display to the QT after giving each one a freshwater dip. Unfortunately, I found my Flame dead in the QT this morning. I guess he was just too far gone. Is that normal or should I be check for another cause of death? <This and other Centropyge do often perish "mysteriously"...> I'm treating with Rid Ich (it contains Formalin and Malachite Green). Is this a good choice? <For? Both compounds are, can be deadly toxic, and are rather harsh on already-challenged fishes... they are discussed on WWM... please learn to/use the indices, search tool there> I knew that the juvi Regal Tang would grow too large for my tank but I succumbed to the pleas of my daughter to get it. She wanted Nemo and Dory together in the tank. The LFS guy wasn't any help either- he said I could return it to the store for a credit once it started to grow too large. It's about 2 inches right now - do you recommend I take it back now? <... please include previous correspondence... there are a few dozen of us here... can't recall, easily find such information...> I am going to keep the fish quarantined for about 5 weeks. I don't have any fish in the display tank right now so hopefully all tomonts, tomites or theronts would have died by then - right? <Yes, should> Is there anything else that I might be forgetting to do? <To not send correspondence in code, to send prev. corr.... or pertinent information (size, type of system...). Cheers, Bob Fenner> - Ich on Flame Angel - Hello Crew, I really appreciate you looking at this for me! I brought home a 3" flame angel last week. It looked great in the store, but as is often the case developed ich spots a couple of days after I brought it home. I have looked through the Centropyge FAQs, but am a little confused. Should I dose with copper, should I fw dip? Opinions seem to be mixed about this regarding this genus. <As long as the fish is in quarantine, I would dip first, Formalin later if things don't seem to be on the mend. These fish are sensitive to copper so a weaker-than-normal dose is what's in order, or Formalin will work against ich. Do not medicate the main tank.> He is currently in a 20H bare bottom QT. <Excellent.> I have been treating with RidIch, which is a Formalin/malachite green mixture for the past 3 days. <Then after 14 days, should be ich-free.> I have been able to bring quite a few specimens back with this stuff. However, this fish seems to be getting more spots everyday. <Do check the water quality - likely need to be swapping out about half that tank every other day to keep the water quality in check. You'll need to add your medication after the water changes to keep the therapeutic level of the Formalin in an effective range.> I am feeding him Mysis soaked in Selcon and a little garlic. <Ahh... good on the Selcon, I've about lost my faith in garlic to do anything but load up the skimmer.> He is eating pretty well. I also have some Nori in the tank for him. He nibbles on this from time to time. What is the best coarse of action for this situation? <You are on the right path.> Any advice is very much appreciated. Thanks, Jeff <Cheers, J -- > Need help with my flame angel Hi Rob/Marina.. <Hi there> I finally have my first fish in my new tank, but alas something is wrong with my flame angel. Tank was fully cycled for about 6 weeks. this is a 90g tank with about 75# of live rock. Water test are all normal, no ammonia. Anyway, I have had the fish for about 2 weeks, doesn't really pay attention or eat the food I try to give it, the are some angel formula pellets. But the flame does it the various algae, greens in the tank and what I believe are copepods (small with looking worms, I also see some very small specimens which look like tiny spiders, don't know what they are? any the flame eats all of these things. <Pycnogonids likely... and the Flame is probably consuming all sorts of organisms that are the live rock>> I am noticing that one eye is cloudy, I also see on one side a little whitish patch (looks like a little explosion, i.e. a fungus? <Maybe> It is very hard to see, I can only see it from certain angles. I also now notice that at times the flame is scratching often, and sometimes swimming erratically, I also see her actually resting along the rocks. I don't see white specks on her but I suspect she has some kind of parasite. I have been searching your site, but simply don't know what she has?? Any advice and treatment suggestions would be very much appreciated. I don't have a treatment tank, but could set one up if need. thanks. <I would just wait, observe this fish for now... unless it looks thin I would not be overly concerned with its feeding. Bob Fenner> Flame continues to degrade... Thanks Bob (apologize for the previous typo), <No worries> I am getting more nervous now, this weekend I also noticed that the second eye is also cloudy and that her back fins are getting rotted (and their are no other fish/verts in the tank). Still has what looks to be an open sore, kind of a whitish fuzz on one side. Are you sure their isn't anything I should be doing, I am actually surprised she is surviving cause she doesn't look very good. Appreciate your thoughts. <Well... if you had a "better" system... basically one that was about the same, but had been set up longer... I might move this fish to it... Likely what is occurring with this Flame is resultant from its handling, care before you... best you can do is provide a stable, optimized environment and "hold on" at this point. There are no "wonder treatments" or additives you can put in the water that will help. Bob Fenner> Sick Flame Angel (4/12/04) Hi. Thanks in advance for
taking the time to answer my question. <You're welcome. Steve
Allen tonight.> I have a 90 gallon FO with some live rock (1
Chromis and 1 flame angel). I have had the flame angel for over a week
now and has been eating well (Mysis shrimp, formula 2 flakes, plankton,
and just got some pygmy angel food because my tank has brown diatoms
but no green algae for the flame to graze on). <Oops! No
quarantine?> Recently I noticed that the flame's color has
paled quite a bit since I got him (especially his lips which are
whitish), his fins look frayed and is swimming slightly erratically at
times (up and down the side of the tank). His gill area is slightly
gray in color as well, but no white spots or other signs of ich. I know
he's sick, but what is it? Ich? <Doubtful--the little white
spots are classic.> He's still eating well <a good sign>
and I'm unsure how to treat him. I know flames are copper
sensitive. I thought it might be a water quality issue but all
parameters are fine (ammonia 0, nitrate 0, nitrates 20). I just did a
5% water change in case. <Always smart. Sometimes bigger changes
(30-50% or even higher) are best if a true toxic crisis is
suspected.> If I treat him, do I need to put him in QT along
with the damsel (who looks fine; my QT is a 10 gallon set up a week
ago) or can I dose Formalin into the main tank (will that kill the live
rock?). <Will kill many desirable things. Never treat the main
tank.> I guess I can't bear the thought of stressing him out by
moving him into QT. <It's not really stressful. You can keep it
darker in there and have some PVC fittings to hide in.> Do I need to
then leave the tank fallow for 4 weeks if it's ich? I'm really
unsure of where to go from here. Thanks kindly, Angela <well,
this is a tough situation that could have been avoided by proper 4-week
quarantine prior to introduction into the main tank. Again, I doubt
ich. Amyloodinium would be another consideration. Do look at some pix.
However, this disease usually causes rapid breathing and is quickly
fatal. I'm more worried about a bacterial infection. You really
need to move this fish out of your display. I'd consider treating
with an antibiotic. Keep the water in great shape & feed
adequately, but not too much. It's OK to leave the Damsel behind
for now if no signs of illness. If you suspect parasites, both fish
need to be treated in QT and the display tank left fishless for 6-8
weeks. Unfortunately, a lot of Flame Angels have been doing poorly in
recent years, especially for certain areas where cyanide is used, so it
is not uncommon for them dwindle & die over the first few weeks.
You can read more about this on WWM. Hope this helps.> Sick Flame Angel 4 (4/16/04) Hi Steve (thanks again for all the help) <Well, I hope it's really helping.> It's about the flame again! To follow up, he looked better when I first started the Kanacyn treatment, but now he seems to have developed a whitish clump on his fins, and I did see him rub up against the pvc a couple of times and twitch a bit. <Possibly a sign of parasites.> He has some raised dots on his gills (one kind of looks like a white pimple). <About how big are these?> Did he develop ich now? <Possible.> I don't want to put him through a freshwater dip again (see below). <Understood.> It's day 4 of the treatment, and I have one day left. Should I continue? Or start treating him with something else after changing the water? I am still constantly battling ammonia levels by doing 50-75% water changes daily; he's still eating well, has clear eyes, and has good color. Really confused <It can be very confusing at times.> <Check some pictures of Lymphocystis to see if you think the whitish clump could be this. The white spots are suspicious for ich. I hesitate to recommend a stressful treatment like copper or Formalin. Another option would by hyposalinity by gradually dropping SG down to 1.010 and keeping it there for a while. With the Kanamycin gone, you can build up your biofilter, possibly with Bio-Spira Marine. Read about these issues in the ich articles & FAQs on WWM. The fact that your fish has better color, is active and eating is very encouraging. Keep working with it. Steve Allen> Environmental Problem, Or Disease? Hi! <Hi there! Scott F. here today> We have a sick Flame Angel and were hoping for some help. We've been looking through the Q&A and can find some similarities, but nothing that seems to fit all of them and was hoping you could help us. <I'll do my best!> We've had the tank up and running for over a year and we've had "Flamey" for about 6 months. About a week ago, he stopped eating. Someone said to try feeding him something else, so we tried brine shrimp and he wasn't even the least bit interested. He pretty much stays in one part of the 30 gallon tank. The very tips of his fins look a just a little straggly and he's gotten very pale the past 2 days. Today I noticed that he's starting to twitch and swim a little erratically. I can't find anything on him (spots, fuzzy stuff.. etc). We've done 2 water changes in the past 5 days. When I checked the water today the nitrates were at about 20. The ammonium tests showed .5 on one and 1.0 on the other (I ran 2 different tests - one with a strip and one with adding drops) so I added some ammolock2 to the water. <Well, detectable ammonia levels are definitely problematic, and almost certainly contributed to the fish's difficulties> Any insight that you can give to help out our little guy would be great (we and his yellow tang buddy will be really upset if we lose him!) Thanks so much! Joanne and John <Well, guys- I think that a large part of the problem is the detectable ammonia level in the system. Erratic behaviour and damaged fins are often a sign of metabolite poisoning. I'd execute some water changes with quality source water. However, more importantly, I'd look for the source of the ammonia. and correct it immediately. In the absence of other symptoms, I'll bet that some husbandry adjustments (i.e.; stepped-up water changes, use of chemical filtration media, aggressive protein skimming, etc.) can make all the difference here. Do continue to observe the fish carefully, and run regular water tests to monitor your progress. I think that you'll see a difference after a week or so. However, make sure that you stay vigilant for possible disease symptoms, just in case. Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Flame Out? (Flame Angel In Trouble?) Hi, <Hi there! Scott
F. here tonight> I've been treating all of my fish (1 Valentini
Puffer, 1 Neon Goby, 3 Firefish,1 Flame Angel) with hyposalinity for
ich for 3 weeks now. It's been almost 2 weeks since all the ich
spots are gone. I'm slowly raising sg back to normal. (it's at
1.015 now, amm 0, nitrite, 0, temp 78.6, ph 8.0) Last week, my Flame
Angel, however, wasn't interested in eating and was breathing
rapidly. She soon improved (after a day) so I kept her in the QT with
the other fish. She had what looked like a white pimple near the gills,
but no ich spots. Again this week, I've noticed a decline in
appetite and movement the past couple of days. She wasn't
interested in food this morning and was breathing rapidly again. Is
this ich (maybe in the gills so I can't see spots)? None of the
other fish show symptoms. <Quite possible; or it could be some other
parasitic illness...> I plan on moving the flame to another QT,
where I will treat with formalin. Is this ok or should I wait to see if
she improves again? I really don't know what's wrong with her,
so I'm hesitant about treating her with meds. Thanks. A <Agreed.
Continuous exposure to medication is never a good thing. On the other
hand, the breathing difficulties are cause for concern. My
thinking is to observe the fish in quarantine for a few days. If the
fish appears to be declining, or if other symptoms of ich or other
parasitic disease manifest, then I would go for the formalin treatment.
Hang in there...Be prepared to take action if necessary. Good luck!
Regards, Scott F> Flame angel ill I have had my flame angel for almost 6 months. I came home today and noticed what seems to be white mucous on its gills, fins and tail. <He could have a slime coating from something irritation him> He is also swimming about quite fast so I'm having a real hard time getting a good look at him. I don't know what it could be (I've read ick looks like salt, this doesn't look like salt, I don't know what ick looks like I've never had a fish that's had it or anything else for that matter). <First thing I would do is a water change. That's the first thing I always do when I have a fish that appears to be having problems.> I have no idea what it is or what I should do. Any advice on helping Tigger would be great! Thanks. <The other possibility could be Lymphocystis. But it looks more like cauliflower growing on it. I really believe something in the tank has irritated him and he has a big slime coat. You need to figure out what did this AFTER you get him back under control. A water change is the first step to getting the water conditions correct. Good luck Kelly from MacL> Kelly Can't Keep Flame Angels Alive (8/31/04) I have had a fairly successful 125 gallon marine aquarium for 3 years. Though I started with a "fish only" I've gradually developed my aquarium into one that sustains both fish and some of the tougher inverts and soft corals. I think of the Flame Angel as pretty much a perfect angelfish. <No disagreement from me, though there are many other fine ones, including the Coral Beauty. As a whole the Centropyge genus has a number of advantages over the larger angels.> It's small, very colorful, and not aggressive. <Well, others may beg to differ on that, but on the whole they are less aggressive than some of the others.> I've tried several times in the last 2 years to keep one in my "reef". Each time, the angel starts out fine, but gradually "balloons up" until it dies. When purchased it appeared as a well-fed fish; but this proceeds to raised scales on the sides and a stomach area that swells larger with each day. In each case, no other fish in the tank has ever shown this. <Suspicious for internal parasites and/or bacterial infection.> There's no evidence of ich, or any external symptoms other than the swelling. Since Flames are deeper water fish, I wonder about air bladder woes. <Well they are found as shallow as 30 feet. They do not appear to be unduly subject to such problems, which BTW, would seriously impair their swimming in your tank, not just cause bloating.> I do buy the fish from the same LFS, and I have read about this fish's unexplained loss of hardiness in recent years. <Indeed, and this may be the problem. However, many of us have thriving Flames. I wish I could explain why mine has been thriving for a year and yours all die. Perhaps there is some aspect of your tank that only affects the Angels, though it may be very difficult to pinpoint. You might want to network with other aquarists, on our forum for instance, to see what seems to be working for those who are having success. You may find something that way. Do you quarantine? An extended period might help. You might be better off seeking Hawaiian specimens, or even the newer, albeit expensive, tank-bred Flames, which are likely to be hardier and parasite-free. Food for thought, anyway. Steve Allen.> Popeye On A Flame Angel? <Hi, Scott F. here with you.> I have a Flame Angel that has been in QT and doing GREAT! I added him to the main tank last night and all the lights where off. The QT tank has one piece of live rock in it so not really any caves. The main tank has a ton of LR in it so it has a lot of caves. He went in the main tank ok without issues and found a little cave to play in of his own. This morning we couldn't find him and started getting worried. Well, we finally found him and he had a bubble over one eye. Everything that I read on your site says that one eye usually equals being hurt. I just wanted to check and make sure that this is what you think the case is because he was swimming kind of funny too. Do you think that he probably hit his eye in the NEW caves and might be swimming funny (comes out of the rock, swims on his side, then straightens back up and goes back into the rock) because of the eye and new surroundings? <This is a definite possibility. Unilateral (one eye) Popeye is almost always caused by an injury. It is also entirely possible that the fish is a bit disoriented after this trauma. It's hard to be 100% certain without seeing the fish, but I'd bet that this is what's happening here. The good news is that this type of injury can be easily treated with Epsom salt in the QT tank to help draw down the swelling> The purple tang that was in QT with him and was added last night as well is doing GREAT. <Good to hear> I did notice that my cleaner shrimp really cleaned the Flame Angel for a while verses what they cleaned the Purple and the two Chromis. Almost had the Flame Angel pinned trying to clean him. Could this indicate some sort of bacterial infection? <Well, it's really hard to say. In all likelihood, the shrimp simply found very willing "customers" in these fish, and merely did a very thorough job.> Thanks for all the help AGAIN! JB <My pleasure, JB! Regards, Scott F.> Flame Angel Flashing 7/29/04 Hey guys, <Hi Nathan, MacL here with you tonight> I have a Flame Angel that is flashing on some PVC pipe. I have never seen him flash or rub himself on anything else such as the rocks, fake corals or gravel. He has no spots and no apparent problems. <Sounds like something is bothering his gills though. Is your tank a reef tank or a fish only tank? If reef you might want to invest in a neon goby or a cleaner shrimp.> He is eating well. Could he be rubbing on the PVC pipe because it is soft and a little slimy and feels good or do you think he has a disease? <I think something is irritating him for him to be rubbing.> What do you think? Water conditions are immaculate. No Ammonia or Nitrites and Nitrates are below 5.<I got to say I'd prefer nitrates at 0.> Temp., salinity and PH good. I feed 80% my home brew frozen food from Bob's book of Spirulina, Green Algae, Zoë« and a mix of Shrimp, Mussels, Squid and Scallops and 20% Algae, Formula 1 and 2 and Spirulina Flakes soaked in Zoë«. Is Spirulina good for Tangs and Angels? <Yes but angels do need some sponge in their diet as well. There are some good angel mixes.> Not as a primary food especially for Angels, but as a supplement especially when soaked in vitamins? I thought the ingredients of what is the name of that flake food that is made in Alaska, big company I am sure you know the name, herbivore looks good. What do you think? The first ingredient is Kelp and the second is Spirulina and then Salmon, and other fish. Is Kelp good for Tangs? <Yes, but so is the Nori you get in a Chinese store same thing much better price.> Is this a good supplemental food to go along with my home brew? <Yes but I would invest in some frozen foods with some sponge in them.> Flame with cloudy eyes Hi- <Hi Wes, MacL here with you today> I am glad you guys are here to help! I looked on the site, and did not find a direct answer to my problem. I have a yellow tang, flame angel and clown fish in my 75g tank. Everyone was happy for a couple months, then ich started to appear. I began treatment with Rid Ich, vacuuming the gravel daily. Fish still ate and functioned normally during this time. At the beginning of the treatment, I gave all three a fresh water dip (each in their own prepared water) which gave some relief. <Good to hear> When catching the flame angel for this dip, I was using a net to guide her into a container. She darted into the net, and was stuck in it for about 20 seconds, head first. I was able to loose her from the net without any force on my part. After this, her eyes seemed cloudy - I don't know if this is a result of the net scratching them or something else. <It could be the net or could be the effect of the parasites or even possibly the left over bacterial infection.> I thought this would go away, as it did not seem to affect her in any way. Over the last few days, sometimes it seems it is improving, sometimes getting worse. Her behavior has remained normal, as though nothing is wrong. When I fed this morning, it was as though she could not see the food clearly, and thus missed it. <She probably can't see clearly. I really would suggest some type of hospital tank and a course of antibiotics treatment. If she starts to show signs of Popeye you can use Epsom salts to give her some relief in that way as well.> Upon feeding tonight, she was able to eat some, but still seemed as though her vision is hazy. The ich has improved a lot, the tang has no signs, the angel a very small amount left, as well as the clown. I have been treating for 6 days. Also, over the last 6 days I have slowly lowered the salinity to 1.017. All other conditions are just right. Please let me know what I should do to correct this problem! Also, I have noticed that sometimes it looks as though my tang is showing signs of aggression to its reflection in the glass - is this something to worry about? <You don't mention the tank size? Does he have lots of swimming room?> Thanks in advance for your help. Wes. Flame Angels and Ick (12/11/04) Dear Crew <Hi. Steve Allen tonight.> How easily do flame angels get ick? <Probably not as easily as Tangs, but they certainly are at least as vulnerable as your average fish.> I have had three of them so far from three different places Fiji, Hawaii, and Marshall Islands and each one has had it. They all appear healthy when I purchase them with no signs of ich, no scratching or signs of irritation, eating well, and behaving normally. Then, in a few days spots start to appear. However it just seems like a few spots that developed on the gill fins and tail fins and not the entire body. <That means the ick is in your tank, not on the fishes, though it is possible they became infested at the fish store.> The ones from Fiji and Hawaii have both died on me after a month and the one from Marshall Islands I purchased a couple of days ago and has started to show signs on the gill and tail fins. I read through your site and see you recommend treating angels with formalin. <This is one way of doing so. Did you read about quarantine? This is the key step. Keep any new acquisitions in QT for 4 weeks. If they get ick in there, they probably brought it with them. If they pass QT and then get ick in your main display, then you have ick in there. The most effective way to rid a tank of ick is 6-8 weeks of no fish (aka "fallow")> I have been using Green-ex. How does this work? <Green-ex? Most would say it doesn't work.> Is it safe to use formalin in the display tank containing cleaner shrimp, hermits, snails, live rock, and one piece of coral? <No> I regrettably don't have a quarantine tank. <This is the root of your problem, and you will not solve this problem without one. A simple QT consisting of a 10G tank or a Rubbermaid container, air-driven sponge filter, heater, and some PVC pieces can be set up for under $50, which often is the price of one Flame Angel.> I have also been feeding fish with flakes containing garlic. Does this help? <Perhaps. It does stimulate appetite and may strengthen immunity. I will admit that I successfully treated a 300 gallon reef system with garlic, Bio-Coat, diatom filtration, $120 worth of No-Ich (allegedly reef-safe), and a $200 UV sterilizer with no evident injury to any invertebrates. I have seen none for 3 months now. I don't know which of these really was key. I was desperate and absolutely unable to catch and quarantine all of those fish. The only other option for me at the Tim was to tear down and quit. This all started when I was forced to pull a Tang out of QT a bit prematurely (after only 2 weeks). I think the reason the ick disappeared eventually was that the Tang finally died and the other fish were able to fight it off in conjunction with the treatments. The Tang could not. I still recommend quarantine/fallow as the best treatment. If there are just a few spots, you could consider something else, but putting the Flame in QT to do so is smartest. Check out the articles on ick at www.reefkeeping.com and www.advancedaquarist.com.> Please write back fast! Laurel <Hope this helps, Steve Allen> Problem with Flame Angel Dear WWM Crew, I am quite new with saltwater tank hobby, I used to have a freshwater tank and a Koi pond for many years. I have changed my 125 gal freshwater tank into saltwater FOWLR tank about 9 months ago since I was very attracted with the beauty of marine aquarium. So far my FOWLR tank (equipped with sump and refugium with Caulerpa taxifolia and mangrove) seems running well. So far all the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate was not detected and there are no problem with all of my existing fish (1 yellow tang, 1 purple tang, 1 Kole tang, 1 Sailfin tang, 1 yellow face angel, 1 Koran angel, 1 mandarin goby, and 1 blue devil). A month ago I bought a flame angel, however this fish finally did not stay longer in my tank and it was died 1 week after introduced to my tank without any specific symptom appeared. 5 days ago I got a new flame angel. I used not to quarantine all of my fish before they were introduced to my tank, however since I have got a god advise mainly from WWM... <No gods here> ...that it was necessary to quarantine the fish therefore I do now the quarantine for this new flame angel before it was introduced to my main tank. I am using 15 gal tank equipped with skimmer and sponge (old sponge from my sump) filter for this quarantine tank and I have done a 10% water change every day. At the beginning this fish looks terrific and active, however since 2 days ago it looks less active and sometimes it shaking the body. Last night I do a fresh water dip of this fish and during the water dip there are something looks like a crystal salt falling down from its gills. What kind of disease with this symptom? <Maybe a trematode> How do I have to do to cure this disease? The colour of this fish still remain bright and no any white spot appearing on its body. Please help me on this matter, since I do not want to lose this beautiful fish for the second time. Thanks in advance for your help on this matter. Best regards, Petrus <I would introduce a cleaner organism to your quarantine tank... likely a Gobiosoma goby... and move this on into your main tank when it's time. I would NOT add chemical medicines to the water at this juncture. Bob Fenner> Losing Flames Bob: I'm a religious reader of your Q&A column and I've written you before regarding my "small" set up which has been up for 8 months. It's a 20 gallon long with about 15 - 18 lbs. of live rock (been there since the beginning) it's nicely cured with all kinds of micro algae and plants growing and flourishing. I have an A-Miracle 500 trickle filter with built in protein skimmer running full blast and two 300 powerheads for circulation. I also have a Skilter filter with the filter media and skimmer removed. About three months ago I put one lb. of live sand and a small live rock inside the Skilter "sump cavity" and put two Mangrove plants, propped in Styrofoam in, they are flourishing. I have one button polyp, one yellow polyp, one green mushroom and one "trumpet" coral all doing quite well. As far as livestock, I've had the same Australian Yellowtail Damsel for five months and it is doing extremely well. Here's my problem, I love Flame Angels. Each time I try to add one, which has been four to date, they don't survive. In the latest try, last month, the fish just died after four days. After two days it got lethargic and hid under a rock, but other than that there were no signs any of disease. I do a10% water change every two weeks, my "levels" always check out good. I add CombiSan every week and a calcium supplement with each water change. Why do you think I don't have success adding the Flame Angel? All else is doing fabulously well! Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts. Steve Eliot >> Hmm could be bunk specimens... there's been a spate of them the last couple of years out of the Marshall's and even Christmas Islands... But my real monies either on the tank being too small and/or the ill-effects of the calcium and Combi- combination... Take it easy with this stuff... if you have the supplement habit bad enough (no alkalinity to speak of is a good indication)... do occasionally (like every three months), pretty much change ALL the water in your system. This will rid much of the "Dead Sea" effect of additions... Bob Fenner Sick Flame Angel :( Bob, I've had a flame angel that has been very happy for at least 3 weeks. My wife and I went out of town on Saturday and returned Sunday evening. I noticed that he was acting a little strange and by Monday morning he had ich. I plan on moving him to a hospital tank and treating him with CopperSafe. He's in a 100gal with a mandarin, 4 cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis) and 3 turbo snails. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate about 10 pH 8.4 SG 1.023 RSB skimmer AMiracle wet/dry 5 gal weekly water changes using Instant Ocean This tank has been set up since December and every thing seems to be dong great except for the ich and lack of appetite. I'm getting a little worried he's not eating but still active, will he survive? Also, what are the recommended levels for the copper treatment? >> Hmm, where will you move this fish to when it is apparently cured? CopperSafe for a couple of weeks should cure the Angel... but what about the ich in your main system? Use a test kit and shoot for 0.20 to 0.30 ppm total free copper. Bob Fenner Re: Sick Flame Angel :( Bob, The ich seems to have cleared up but now he's not eating and looking a little thin... I'm getting really worried now, we really like the little guy. I was hoping that he'd do ok in the quarantine tank for a few weeks while I left the main tank void of fish to let the ich eventually die. Anyway is there anything I can do to spark some interest in food? I've tried Nori, flake and frozen brine shrimp. Thanks for all the excellent advice/help Scott >> <Yes, do try soaking the intended food in a vitamin preparation (like Selcon, Micro-Vit, even human liquid "baby vitamins") for a few minutes before offering it... keep the light down... and if/when you're pretty sure the ich is gone, place some clean (no ich) live rock for it to nibble on, hide in. Bob Fenner> Cyanide? Hey Bob I have a new flame angel that has been
exhibiting some strange behavior. Since day one my girlfriend
kept telling me that he was brain damaged and maybe she is right.
I bought him by the book: a store that I trust, he lived in their tank
for 10 days, he was eating (but wasn't a pig at all) and he and his
tankmates visually looked good. I drip acclimated him to a reduced
salinity 18 gal hospital tank, (also freshwater dipped him for 9min)
where he lived for two weeks and than drip acclimated him to my 90gal
FOWLR. My 90 has great water quality --no measurable anything-- and the
hospital tank was kept clean with consistent water changes and never
measured more than the smallest trace on my test kits of any of the
nitrate, nitrite or ammonia levels. He never had any obvious signs of
disease and ate Formula 2, Prime Reef, and mostly Dwarf Angel Formula
but still was never an exuberant eater. The strange behavior I
mentioned started as soon as I got him home (never saw this in the
store tank). He kept swimming moderately fast around every container he
was kept in. He would swim with his mouth out of the water, his back
also out and sometimes briefly would slide on his side. He did this in
the acclimation bowl I use, the freshwater dip bucket and than in the
hospital tank. At first I thought I had made up some "bad"
water but it tested out normal, I had used Prime to dechlorinate it and
it was 3 days old and the temp was 78. The water was well oxygenated
with two power heads The behavior never went away, but other than that
he seemed healthy so I put him in my 90gal. He hid for the first day
1/2 and than skulked around the back of the live rock. He has been
rapidly opening and closing his mouth like a fish that was gasping for
breath but he isn't gasping for breath--his gills are not involved
like they have been in fish that I have seen gasping for breath. Also
he isn't at the surface or in a stream of water like I would expect
a fish to do if it was trying for more oxygen. Today he appears very
weak and hasn't eaten. I expect he will die soon from the way he
looks. Now that I have written you a book, my question is: is this
cyanide poisoning symptoms? Or could it be something else. I felt I did
everything by the book. Sucks to do that and lose a fish anyway.
Thanks, Rich M. >> Thank you for your carefully crafted
message. I have seen way too much of what you so aptly describe, and
though it (the cause) is not cyanide, or an economic poison per se, the
results are often as dramatic and destructive as you relate. The last
2-3 years the quality of Flame Angels (Centropyge loricula) has seen
serious decline... and have seen direct evidence of this in the
principal source of this species in the wild ... Has everything to do
with "human" effects of economics and expediency and little
to do with the fish itself. Let me explain. With the decline (perceived
and real) of the Yen (Japanese currency), a good deal of the fishes
that used to traffic through their part of Asia (and Asian influenced
markets) stopped, dropped severely... The fisher-folk in the collection
end kept catching, selling what they could to western markets, and
there has/had been a great increase in availability of this animal at
much-reduced prices... However, something else happened, factored in
with all this... The processes of handling the specimens was altered...
Due to less money, and apparent "need" to house, acclimate,
in a few words, properly handle C. loricula, the species has been
relegated to being "stored" in plastic cups, in bags hung off
of the collectors boats/anchorages in anticipation of
"gathering" by intermediaries for immediate shipping
internationally... BTW the Marshall Islands species are generally MUCH
better and less variable in quality than the Christmas Islands ones.
The long and short of all this is that Flames are no longer a usually
great aquarium fish species... they're too beat from the traumas
described above to have much historical survivability... Unless you can
be assured of having an initially healthy specimen (like waiting as you
did from the Dealer's), I would seek out another dwarf angel type.
Bob Fenner, disgusted at times. Copper and flame angel Dear Bob: I tried to purchase one of
the three copper test kits you mentioned in your last email. For some
reason here in Iowa they are non-existent! <This is Iowa as in
a State of the U.S.A. right?> I've ordered a Salifert online and
am waiting for it to come. The fish have been treated in copper for 2
weeks as of tomorrow. I took a sample of my 2 hospital tanks water to
the LFS and he just called me with the results. He is using something
called "dry tabs" and said one of the tanks is measuring
between .25 and .5. He said that tank is okay. The other one with my
flame angle is measuring .6. He asked me if she was breathing okay and
I said yes. Upon hanging up the phone a looked at her very closely and
noticed that one of her eyes has a "milky" hazy look to
it. <Yes... maybe from a too high copper contact...> I
called him back and he said to treat with Melafix if it gets worse.
What should I do if anything for this poor fish? Is it going blind from
the copper being too high? <Just wait... the copper will come
down on its own accord... and the eye will repair itself> I just
added about a quart of saltwater to the tank to dilute it down a bit.
Should I stop treatment on the hospital tanks tomorrow (2wks) and do
water changes to get the copper out? <IMO yes... the
"spots" are no longer evident?> Thanks for the help, as
I'm really worried about my flame. Janey <Bob Fenner> Flame Angel troubles, copper? "flame angel, question" he has got cloudy eye! I have a U.V. sterilizer, and everything's running fine, just my flame starting to act up! why? <Maybe a "bump in the night"?> my changing juvenile emperor angel doesn't take a liking to him very much? <Angelfishes will fight if not enough room, cover...> I'm just worried that he is not gonna make it for very long? should I douse the tank with CopperSafe? any input in this matter would be of the utmost importance to me.:) thanks again rob! <Why put in CopperSafe? You need to start back at the beginning... read over the Marine Angels sections and FAQs files stored on our website: www.WetWebMedia.com and the "Disease" sections as well. Bob Fenner> Flame Angel needs help Hi, Bob, hope you had a good trip, your stand-ins did a great job. <Alexander... thank you! We are still standing... either Bob agrees with you or he's too desperate to kick us out just yet...heheh. Anthony> I've got a sudden problem that I'd like help with even though I haven't had time to search the site. have to rush to work ASAP, but I woke this am to see my beautiful little flame angel(2-=3") looking awful and he was fine last night. He's been in a QT for ten days and was doing great, eating well, etc. (I may have overfed a little, cuz I had a tiny NH4 spike--to 0.25, with NO2 of 1.5 and NO3= 20 ) so I just did a 25% h2o change,. He's in a 26, alone with two sponge filters, temp=77, SG=1023, pH=8.0.. <minor concern...but maybe not: 8.0 is a low pH assuming your test kit is accurate and not actually reading a bit high (placing the actual lower). Furthermore... unless you tested the chemistry in the night when pH is lowest, it may be lower still. Point is that you have a bit of a low pH that must be corrected... although maybe not the rot cause of the problem. 8.3 pH minimum> Now he's just hanging out in the bottom corner, vertically, head up, "treading h20", no scratching, white spots, or labored breathing. One eye is slightly cloudy and there is a very faint suggestion of a fine white, powdery film around the head area (VERY faint)..; <symptoms of turbidity/mucous/web around the head region specifically sometimes signal a Brooklynella infection (nasty). Although somewhat seasonal... it is commonly seen in Hawaiian shipments... which does not rule out your buddy. Do some archive/net homework to see if photos of this symptom look familiar> also not feeding for the first time.. was eating like a pig, alternating Spirulina flake with frozen Mysis. What to do? He's my first SW fish, a real beauty, and I' d sure hate to lose him!! Thanks, as always, regards, Al <whoa... bud! I did not see that one coming! First fish? As in...first you ever bought? I'm hoping I'm mistaken or need more information here. But if correct... how was the quarantine tank cycled, how is the main display cycled and who suggested that this should be your very first fish (I'm going to leave a dead snail in their locked car all day)?!? Please don't misunderstand me... Flame Angels can be quite hardy once established, but they are not a first fish for anyone by any stretch of the imagination (nitrate, copper sensitivity, and so much more). Which reminds me.. any copper added to the quarantine tank? Dwarf angels and Flames in particular are ultra sensitive to copper. Would easily stress or kill your angel. Please follow up with more history/info. Kindly, Anthony> Flame Angel woes Hi, Bob, hope you had a good trip, your stand-ins did a great job. <Thank you very much. It looks like we will be standing in for awhile longer.> I've got a sudden problem that I'd like help with even though I haven't had time to search the site. have to rush to work ASAP, but I woke this AM to see my beautiful little flame angel(2-3") looking awful and he was fine last night. He's been in a QT for ten days and was doing great, eating well, etc. (I may have overfed a little, cuz I had a tiny NH4 spike-to 0.25, with NO2 of 1.5 and NO3= 20 ) so I just did a 25% H2O change,. He's in a 26, alone with two sponge filters, temp=77, SG=1.023, pH=8.0. Now he's just hanging out in the bottom corner, vertically, head up, "treading H2O", no scratching, white spots, or labored breathing. One eye is slightly cloudy and there is a very faint suggestion of a fine white, powdery film around the head area VERY faint)..; also not feeding for the first time. was eating like a pig, alternating Spirulina flake with frozen Mysis. What to do? He's my first SW fish, a real beauty, and I'd sure hate to lose him!! <I hope he is still alive when you get home and that there is time to do anything about it. It sounds like Oodinium to me. It is a very common saltwater disease. Keep up the water changes. Daily would be best to keep the ammonia and nitrite under control and the use of copper would probably be in order. You want to follow the manufacturer's recommendations and probably buy a copper test kit to keep the dosage accurate.> Thanks, as always, regards, Al <Hope this email finds you before it is too late, Steven Pro.> Flame Angel My Flame Angel has 2 white spots. From when I first noticed them they have gotten a bit bigger. I do have 2 cleaner shrimp in my tank. All the other fish have no spots. Should I administer a fresh water dip, garlic treatment, or administer copper safe? Or should I just rely on the Scarlet Cleaners? Thanks. <I would rely on the present cleaners... perhaps augment foods with vitamins, garlic... keep an eye on the specimen. Moving, treating with copper would be more stress/harmful than it's worth at this point. Please read the various sections on marine diseases, the Flame Angel posted on our site: WetWebMedia.com Bob Fenner> Flame Angel... Bob, I have just recently noticed that my Flame Angel has what looks like a white cover over one of it's eyes?? What is it and how can I cure it?? <Likely just a growth/result of a mechanical injury. Please read through the "Environmental Disease" FAQs posted on WetWebMedia.com Bob Fenner> Regards, Keith Broadbent Re: Numerous Flame Angel losses Well, the flame was doing ok, then he stopped eating last night. He was dead this morning. This must be the 10th flame angel I have lost. Pretty depressing. But today's events have put that in perspective... I've sworn off flames before, but I think this time is for real... <Think this is best. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Patrick Parasitized Flame? I have a flame angel just moved from quarantine to my 37 gal. tank. He is doing great and eating hearty, but the other day I noticed a small pinhole in the blue portion of his anal fin. The next day it was slightly larger and appeared to have a white parasite looking dot burrowed into the front portion of this hole. This dot is about 3 or 4 times the size of a normal Cryptocaryon. Then today I notice another similar parasite that looked to be burrowed under a scale in his lower tummy, which also has the appearance of a little vertical slice about 1/8". My purple tang is spotless, as is my purple Firefish. The only other known inhabitants are an impatiens cucumber, cleaner shrimp (which has been spending time with the flame), black serpent star, abalone and 6" Bristleworm. I have about 60 pounds of live rock. <Quite a mix... for your size system...> Just today I began feeding them garlic oil extract in their food. I also use Marc Weiss Reef Vital DNA product. Any ideas? <About? Your angel may have a parasite, it may just be overly-stressed in its new circumstances and as a consequence of its recent moving... I would not be placing the above "magic potions" in this system (too great a likelihood these will cause the system to collapse... too little chance of them being of any help.) but rely on the cleaner, time going by to clean up this apparent problem. He showed no problems in the q tank and received freshwater dips before and after. Thanks as always for your help, Patrick Livermore, CA <Hmm, do start planning on your next, larger system... You've got the signs. Bob Fenner> Sick Flame Angel First of all, this WEB site is awesome. I have read more about marine aquaria here than anywhere else. Thanks for your dedication to us hobbyists. <You're welcome my friend> I am looking for some advice. I just acquired a beautiful Flame Angel. After a day or so, I noticed one of its eyes was somewhat cloudy and bulging more than the other. Now it has been a week since acclimation to the tank and its other eye is now cloudy and bulging. I have also noticed reduced activity. It tends to stay in a crevice or hole most of the time. It does eat, but not as much as it did a few days ago. <Mmm, likely "just" the rigors of capture, handling/shipping showing here...> Am I destined to loose this beauty? Or is there something I can do to save it? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Walt Aquarium (volume) 80 Gallons Aquarium up time 10 days (transferred contents from my 55 gal) <Yowser, this is a very short, too small a time to wait before placing an angelfish...> Filtration, pumps and heaters. Wet/Dry system w/bio balls (brand ?) <I would pull these out, regardless of make. See: http://wetwebmedia.com/wetdryfaqs.htm> Protein skimmer (brand ?) Heater is unplugged <Why? Set the thermostat and plug it in... to prevent dips in temperature... won't come on if water is warmer...> Lighting 1-40 watt actinic blue and 1-40 watt Spectrum V Lighting duration Blue for about 14 hours and the white about 13 hours Tank residents How many of each fish and how large are they? 2-Tomato Clowns, 1-large 5"-6" 1-regular 3"-4" 1-Yellow Tang, full size 1-Neon Damsel, large 5"-6" <This is a big one!> 1-Blue Damsel, 3"-4" 1-Royal Gramma Dottyback, 1"-2" 1-Flame Angel, 2"-3" 1-Bristle Star, 6" 1-Red Armor Star, 5" 1-small orange star, 3" Not sure what kind. 5-invertebrates Filter media or cartridges change Change cotton in overflow box 1-2 times a week Dump out protein skimmer as needed Water Changes 5-10 gallons per month (haven't done a change on this tank yet) Temp 80-85 (it's been hot in San Diego) <We live there/here... Mira Mesa> Latest water test results. Specific gravity - 1.024 pH - 8.1 Ammonia - 0.0 Nitrites - 0 Nitrates - 5 or less <No live rock? I would place some of this and a vitamin preparation in the water once a week, and on the fish's foods... and otherwise hope for the best. See you at the local marine club do's. Bob Fenner> Sick Flame Angel Anthony, Started treatment of the flame angel today, he is hiding a bit (which I expected with the new surroundings) but seems to be taking to the medication just fine. Many thanks! Doug <very welcome, my friend. Glad we caught you before you used the copper... your e-mail would have been different if we hadn't <wink>. Best regards, Anthony> What to do with sick flame angel ? Hi WWM Crew ! <Howdy. Anthony Calfo here thinking that you have a cool name for a Viking... Magnus> Thanks for such an extremely educational site. <our pleasure> However, I have not succeeded to find information to help me identify the disease my new flame angel have picked up (this is my first sickness). <do get a quarantine tank if you already do not have one for all new/sick fish> I have a 150 gallon tank, set up since 6 months (beginner), all water values seems ok (e.g. Nitrite=0, Nitrate=1mg/l). I have 1 yellow tang, 1 purple tang, 5 green Chromis, 1 Salarias, 2 baby tomato clowns, 2 blood shrimps and a couple of soft and stony corals. A week ago a added 2 baby blue "hepatus" tangs and a Flame angel (and 4 new corals). Unfortunately I did not use a quarantine, <yes, my friend... this is sadly how many of us learn to appreciate the value of a quarantine tank> but I keep the new fishes in a sort of cage (3 gallons, with some live stones and macro algae for hiding) within the tank, to be able to do some close observation and easy capture if needed. <good sometimes for behavioral acclimation (not for infectious diseases of course)> The Flame angel did show a little cloudy eyes (both sides) after 2-3 days in its new home. I did eat from start, but only very small items (like frozen Cyclops). It is appearing very lazy and it sometimes shrivel like it tries to get rid of something. It does not scratch itself and I can not see anything else abnormal. Now after 6 days the cloudy eyes got worse and it seems also like they swell up (but not as big as some pictures I have seem on pop-eye). <perhaps a bacterial infection, do add 1 tablespoon of Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) per 10 gallons to try to relive this symptom first (safe with your other fish and coral, yes)> I have identified a few (4-5) small white dots (like Cryptocaryon) on the body and fins, but they do not seem to increase in numbers. It is still eating but not much. No other fish seem affected. <Do recall that Centropyge are VERY sensitive to copper... QT the angel and use Formalin in a bare-bottomed hospital tank> Can you help me identify the disease and recommend a cure ? <without eatin well... medication through food may not be effective. QT with formalin and antibiotics may be necessary and is recommended> Thank you so much for the your help / Magnus Petersson <very best regards, my Viking friend. Anthony> Sick Flame Angel Hey guys, love your web page. The strangest thing happened to my Flame Angel the other day. I've had him for over two months in a 135g reef tank. From the second I put him in the tank he has done great. He immediately started eating and has a healthy appetite. I make sure to keep his (and the other fish in the tank) diets varied. I usually mix my foods up between frozen brine shrimp, seaweed (all the different colors), frozen Spirulina, frozen blood worms and Marine A-1 soaked in vitamins. He behaved very normal. By this I mean He was very aware of his surroundings and was constantly grazing the rocks for food. When I woke up one day about a week ago I noticed he was acting very strange. He was hiding in the back in one place and not grazing like he normally does. He was "swimming in place" kind of like you see sick swordtails do. I also notice he looked a little thin. This surprised me because like I said, he has a healthy appetite, and he had just eaten the day before and looked fine. The only concern I had was that I did dose with Kalk that morning. But, I dripped it extremely slow and when I tested the ph it was at 8.2 like it always is. I've been doing it this way for a long time with no ill affects toward the fish. I have done it before with the Flame in there and he's had no reaction that I'm aware of. I fed the fish and he came out and looked interested but ate very little if anything. He looked like he was in daze. <Hmm> Unfortunately I went away on vacation the next day for six days. I figured he would be a goner by the time I came back. Someone came by to feed the fish twice while I was away. I've done this before and find that fish are fine if they have to go with only one or two meals in a week. There is also over 100 lbs of live rock in there. When I came home, to my surprise he was still alive. However, he was extremely skinny. I mean he's just skin and bones and a head. I'm very confident that they had enough food and all the other fish looked very healthy. Surprisingly His behavior had gone back to normal (grazing etc.) but he remains really skinny above the head and in the body. I've been home 4 days and I've been feeding them and he seems to be eating alright but he looks awful. <Any other fishes that are "suddenly thin", acting oddly?> What in the world could have caused this? Could this have something to do with my Kalk dosing? Is this a cyanide thing? Is there anything I can do to help him out? <Not Kalkwasser, not cyanide... perhaps an internal parasite manifesting itself... I would try augmenting the diet with a vitamin and HUFA supplements, adding some to the water itself weekly... even adding either fresh garlic or one of the "real" garlic prep.s sold in the interest (like Ecosystem's) to foods. Bob Fenner> Thanks in advance for your help. Flame Angel QT decision Hi Guys: I have a situation with a Flame Angel amazingly similar to the posts below, although my QT tank is only 10 gallons (too small, I know) and my flame has been eating regularly since go. She was gorgeous at the 7th day of quarantine. Unfortunately, I had to go out of town unexpectedly on business for several days and upon return last night I noticed that one of her eyes has become clouded over (today is day 11). Obviously, I did a water change last night since water quality has deteriorated over those days while traveling (NO3 was at 5 ppm). She is still eating and appears very healthy and vibrant except for the clouded eye. So what to do? I read these posts on your site and am torn over which path to take: <Mmm, if this Angel is otherwise okay, appearance and behavior-wise, I'd leave it in quarantine another three days... If it appears to be suffering, the eye becoming more clouded over, I might run it through a pH-adjusted freshwater bath (Please see here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm) and place it in your main system. Bob Fenner> Flame in QT Bob or who ever is answering tonight: I have a
flame angel that is in QT tank for 2 days tonight I found 2 small bumps
behind the one eye just behind the gill cover they look like pimples
with a small white top. Would a fresh water dip be appropriate or what
course of action should I follow? <I would just hold off... not to
worry here unnecessarily... these bumps may well be due to the
quarantine procedure, shipping... and will go with acclimation,
adjustment, settling in to your main tank.> Thank you for the great
web site. Pat <You are welcome my friend. Bob Fenner> Flame Angel QT decision Hi Bob: <Hello Jim, I'm just a doctor! Oh, sorry, an old trekkie> Wanted to write again with a progress report on the Flame. After reading your response, I decided to try Furan-2 and Epsom salts (1 tbsp per 10 gallon) -- one, because I figured if she had to sit in QT another 3 days she might as well get antibiotics to be on the safe side, and two, for my own personal education. At any rate, she just completed her 15th day of QT, 48th hour of Furan-2, and 24th hour of MgSO4. Interestingly enough, her eye now looks worse rather than better! It definitely appears to be Popeye, but I don't understand how the condition can look worse. All of her other activity is good -- she's eating well, has typical behavior for a Centropyge, has vibrant color, and her feces is normal-colored although it has become somewhat stringy since starting the MgSO4, which I'm guessing is to be expected. <Yes> The directions on my Furan-2 box by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals states that it is a 4-day regime, not a 5-day as posted several places throughout your website for Furan-based drugs. The antibiotic has a 03/2004 expiration date, and consists of 60 mg Nitrofurazone, 25 mg Furazolidone, and 2 mg (just a touch) of Methylene Blue per 10 gallons. I would greatly appreciate some more hand-holding here from you to help her through this. I don't see her having a full recovery over the next 48 hours from the remaining two doses of Furan-2 based on how she looks now, but I could be wrong as I have no experience with Popeye. Should I follow through with a second round of antibiotics, or a FW dip with Methylene blue and follow with placement in the main tank? <I would do the latter, hope for a self-cure> Any explanation on why her eye looks worse now than better in this situation? I did a 40-50% water change 48 hours ago before starting the Furan-2, so water quality is okay. <No idea. Depends on the root cause of the eye trouble... if it wasn't bacterial in origin, the treatment might not have done much good...> Thanks for all of your help and a great website. You have done immeasurable good and saved a lot of fishes' lives and the ocean's reefs too by discouraging people from buying inappropriate species. I look forward to the day when Flame Angels are routinely farm-raised, which I understand is fast approaching. <Yes> Happy Holidays, Jim <Be chatting, Bob Fenner> SICK FLAME ANGEL I just purchased a flame angel from the most reputable fish dealer on the net. Fish looked great in the bag, very bright red. Unfortunately, I had to move the aquascape after I released him into the tank. I did not quarantine the fish because it is the only fish in the 75 gallon tank and based on where the fish is from I've never needed to<You always need quarantine even if it is the only fish in the tank. > I now see where I was wrong. After 24 hours, the fish is pale white on the sides and scratching against rocks like a madman. It has no apparent ich spots on fins. Do I need to set up a quick quarantine tank, stress him out further, or is there a chance that him being the only fish in a tank that big he can kick it on his own with time?< Leave him where he is for now but if he does start to show spots he will need to be treated in a separate tank and your main tank will need to go fishless for at least four weeks, a cleaner shrimp would be beneficial > All levels are zero, and he has absolutely no competition. He picks at the liverock, but won't even chase Mysis shrimp. I'm really in a bind because this fish is so beautiful. It's a tiger striped variation of the flame. HELP! <Try feeding him an angel preparation such as the one made by Ocean Nutrition. Please read through the pages highlighted in blue below for more info on quarantine and the flame angel. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/loricula.htm Hope this helps, Cody> Flame bubble eye my flame angel has developed a large clear bubble over one eye. It still swims and eats well. What is this and will it resolve or kill the fish. Thanks, Mark <Due to it being "one-sided" this is likely a result of a mechanical injury ("bump in the night") and not some overt environmental or pathogenic result. Please see here re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/popeyefaqs.htm Bob Fenner> - Sick Flame Angel - Hello, <Good morning, JasonC
here...> It's been a while since I've used your services - a
whole new look on the website, a bit intimidating for me so I hope you
don't mind me just asking the question - I did try the search as
your site requested, just no luck. Anyway, I have a Flame Angel who has
been in the tank (180g.) for close to 6 months along with a few clowns,
Chromis and a yellow tang - the Flame has been hiding in the reef, not
it's usual lively self. Upon closer inspection it
appears to be very pale in the face, kind of off balance, gasping for
air... All the other fish appear to be fine, water
parameters all check out. I know what your thinking - same
thing happens to Anthony after a few beers but I am concerned that it
may be a disease... <Ah ha, ha ha ha... Actually, that wasn't
what I was thinking... but, is anyone hassling your flame angel? It
doesn't sound like any specific disease, but if you are concerned,
I would isolate this fish in quarantine for observation and potential
treatment should the symptoms begin to point to something more
certain.> Please help me. Thanks in advance, Mike <Cheers, J --
> What Happened to My Flame Angel? - 08/24/03 <Hi Luke, PF with you tonight> I bought a Flame Angel two weeks ago with 3 other fish (clown, banner fish and raccoon b-fly). I've quarantined them. The fish got minor Ich a few days ago and I've added Cupramine as prescribed. Ammonia levels 0, nitrite 0, Ca 460, ph 8.3, high alkalinity, salinity 1.023, temp 26C. Ich disappeared after 2 days. Today I have noticed that my flame angel was turning white and was swimming kind of on the side near the surface. This was 4 days after adding Cupramine. The other fish are fine. There are no external signs of anything... no bacterial infections, ich etc... nothing... What has caused this? IS the fish going to die? I've changed most of the water to fresh, but after 3 hrs there's no improvement. <Well, this could be a side effect of your use of copper. When you use copper you should always test it, and be sure and research the fish and their reactions to it. Clowns for example, are very sensitive to copper. How big is the QT tank you're using, and have you placed some pieces of PVC in their to act as an artificial reef?> Thank you, Luke <Good luck Luke, hopefully your fish is doing better.> Flame Angel Trouble >I recently bought a flame angel (1
week ago). All was going well until yesterday when the angel
started to pale in color. She is now pretty pale and
twitches slightly. >>The animal sounds very stressed.
>I do not have a q-tank (sorry!) and she is in a 30 gal with a dwarf
lion and a b/g Chromis. Please help I do not want to lose
this fish. I did a h2o change last night to try to
help. >>The water change will help. If you
have NO invertebrates in the tank, I would begin dropping the salinity
till it gets down to 1.010. If you can AT ALL, consider
getting one of those stackable Rubbermaid tubs, those work GREAT as
quarantine systems, just heat, add a sponge filter and
go. In the meantime, watch her, keep her eating, do lots of
water changes. >She is eating well with no spots (just pale, slight
scratching, and twitching once in a while). Thanks
>>Observe, and do get that tub for the future. Best of
luck. Marina Fighting Ich The Easy Way? I'm starting to feel indebted to you guys for all the help you have given me. Here is my question for the day. I have a flame angel in quarantine, about 3 inches long. He was brought in from Hawaii two weeks ago from LFS. <Excellent fish, excellent procedure, and the best place to get 'em from!> Curious about surroundings, eating some prepared food, nibbling on everything in sight, seemed healthy. He is now in my quarantine tank, been there for two days, started showing some signs of ich, 5 or 6 spots on him. Do I have to medicate, or can I just siphon 1 or 2 gallons a day from the bottom of the tank, hoping for him to battle this on his own. <Actually, the procedure is 100% changes, siphoning from the bottom of the bare quarantine tank. By doing this, you're removing any encysted stages of the parasite that may be present. It's not that traumatic, actually, if you are using water from your display tank as the QT water. You're simply replacing the water in the QT with water of the exact same temperature and composition; the same water that the fish will be living in for the rest of his life. Really pretty safe! I'd try this before I'd resort to chemicals, particularly with Centropyge species. Lon-term use of copper is a definite no-no with these guys.> He is still eating. I don't want to give him a fresh water dip (my usual procedure) because I gave him one when I first got him and he didn't like it, tried to jump, spitting water at surface, etc... I think that the stress from the dip may have actually triggered the ich. <Possible. Centropyge don't take well to FW dips on occasion! I agree with your decision not to do a dip again.> By the way I don't think I did anything wrong with the first dip, ph adjusted, temp adjusted, aerated R/O water, about 8 min.s long, the same procedure I have used with success on my tangs). <Yep- you did fine. A great procedure; it's just that some fishes don't take well to it!> If you feel I can wait this out, at what point, or what signs would you wait for to determine if I have to take further action? i.e.: just watch him if he is acting normally with just a few spots, medicate him if he is showing further signs of disease like scratching and more spots. <You're reading my mind!> If I should medicate him, what do you recommend? <I'd consider a product with Formalin in lieu of Copper Sulphate> Thanks for your help. <Glad to be of assistance. I think that you are on the right track here. Keep this guy eating a variety of foods, give him excellent water quality, use the water change technique and he may just pull through without any other intervention required! Good luck! Regards, Scott F> - Flame Angel with Ich - I'm starting to feel indebted to you guys for all the help you have given me. Here is my question for the day. I have a flame angel in quarantine, about 3 inches long. He was brought in from Hawaii two weeks ago from LFS. Curious about surroundings, eating some prepared food, nibbling on everything in sight, seemed healthy. He is now in my quarantine tank, been there for two days, started showing some signs of ich, 5 or 6 spots on him. Do I have to medicate, or can I just siphon 1 or 2 gallons a day from the bottom of the tank, hoping for him to battle this on his own. <At the very least get it a cleaner shrimp... sometimes you can keep ahead of an all out infection this way, but if you have to medicate the tank the shrimp would have to go.> He is still eating. I don't want to give him a fresh water dip (my usual procedure) because I gave him one when I first got him and he didn't like it, tried to jump, spitting water at surface, etc... I think that the stress from the dip may have actually triggered the ich. <Mmmm... you can probably imagine, no saltwater fish is going to like a freshwater dip but many of them can take this treatment, sometimes for as long as 10 minutes. pH-adjusted, freshwater dips are a wise and useful first stop along the way for dealing with ich.> By the way I don't think I did anything wrong with the first dip, ph adjusted, temp adjusted, aerated R/O water, about 8 min.s long, (the same procedure I have used with success on my tangs). <Excellent.> If you feel I can wait this out, at what point, or what signs would you wait for to determine if I have to take further action? <More, rather than less ich - as long as the fish is still interactive and eating, it's on the positive side of things. If you do need to treat with copper, use a dose slightly less than normal and keep it up for 14 days along with daily to every other day water changes.> i.e.: just watch him if he is acting normally with just a few spots, medicate him if he is showing further signs of disease like scratching and more spots. <Oh... I should have read on - jolly good show.> If I should medicate him, what do you recommend? <Copper, but as I pointed out, should be a mild dose - angels can be sensitive to copper, but really have the most trouble with prolonged exposure to it, so it's meant to be a short term treatment.> Thanks for your help. <Cheers, J -- > - Flame Angel Issues - Hi My flame angel just came with this disease today. Can you identify it for me and suggestions on how to treat it, please. <Hmm... the picture is just blurry enough that I can't be 100% sure what that is. If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say that it's probably Lymphocystis - a viral condition that comes and goes on its own. There is no treatment.> I have had him for about 6 months. Thanks in advance. <Keep on eye on the fish... as long as it's eating and otherwise doing fine, I wouldn't be too concerned.> Gaurav <Cheers, J -- > - Flame Angel Quarantine - Hi again, Last question on the flame. She has been in the q tank for about 3 weeks w/no sign of infection for a week. She is still not eating. <Has the fish also not been eating for three weeks?> I was wondering if it would be ok to put her back in the main tank so she could feed off the live rock, I have tried all the normal food stuffs (Nori, Mysis, brine etc.) but she won't even look at it. <I would go ahead an place this fish - perhaps a ph-adjusted, freshwater dip before you make the move.> Any ideas would be great. <Hmm... if you can get your hands on the TMC Gamma frozen foods in your area, seek out their whole cockles in the shell. More often than not, one of these thawed out and cracked open is hard to resist for most any fish.> Thanks <Cheers, J -- > Flame Angel troubles Crew -- <Bob> I 've had a Flame Angel in a 10 gallon quarantine tank for approximately 2 1/2 weeks. I feed 2X a day with Bob Fenner's recipe from CMA. It has been eating and very active. I siphon out the uneaten food daily and perform daily water changes of 2-3 gallons. I noticed a couple of days ago its normally vibrant red flanks appeared a little washed out. Also, it has one slightly cloudy eye. I searched the WWM archives and learned that good husbandry and water changes are the most effective "cure" for a cloudy eye. Today the fish appears very washed out and its pectoral fins appear frayed. It still appears to be eating and active. Is this a bacterial condition? Is there a treatment beyond water changes? Please help, I'd really hate to lose this specimen. Thanks for your assistance. -- Bob <Mmm, I am inclined to suggest (doing what I would do) that you place this specimen in the main tank at this point... The likelihood that its health will improve in the current setting is not "good enough" to offset the likelihood of its improvement in better surroundings. I strongly suspect you have established live rock, with much more for this fish to sustain itself on, much better, stable water quality... in the permanent display aquarium. I would move it, and not worry further about transmitting an infectious or parasitic agent. Bob Fenner> Re: Flame Angel troubles Bob -- Thanks so much for your prompt reply -- I was thinking along the same lines. By the way, I really enjoyed your algae presentation at the MARS meeting in Sacramento last week. --Bob <As did I. Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>
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