Mystery Wrasse Disease 12/15/2007
Hello WWM crew. Your website has given me years of valuable info. I have used the experiences of others on your site for years to learn about this great hobby. Now I have a problem of my own that I would greatly appreciate your help. I came home today and realized that my prize fish, a 4 inch mystery wrasse, has some sort of "disease" covering his mouth. This disease looks like fluffy white whiskers coming out of his mouth. These whiskers appear to be coming from inside the mouth and do not allow him to close his mouth.
<Not good... likely resultant from a physical trauma ("jumping")...>
I am at a loss because I have not seen anything similar to this before. I have had some run ins with marine velvet in the past, but this looks nothing like a parasite.
<Is simple decomposers...>
In my (clueless) opinion it seems like some sort of fungus growing out of his mouth.
<Likely bacterial...>
The tank is a 120 gallon that has been up for about a year. I have finally gotten around to quarantining all new specimens, and have done so throughout the entire life of this tank. Below I have attached a picture of the wrasse.
<Didn't come through.>
 It is not very helpful because the white "whiskers" around his mouth blend with the color of the mouth, but you can kind of see them along the bottom of his mouth. Hopefully this will help you in your assessment. Thanks in advance for your help with this problem, and thank you for all the help you have provided others. This is a valuable resource for all marine aquarists.
<Not much to do here... Perhaps adding more iodine-ide-ate in whatever format you currently use would be of help... Otherwise, waiting, hoping... maintaining optimized, stable conditions is about it. Bob Fenner>

Long E-mail... Sick Six-line... Need for advice. Six Line illness – 07/25/07
Dear WWM Crew, <Hi Randall, MacL here with you tonight.>
I spend hours a day reading various FAQ's and Articles on this site. <Very flattering.> Every morning I print out several pages to read in my spare time throughout the day. I know this may seem like a bit much, but I want to be sure my husbandry is as good as it can be. <Actually, in my opinion, any knowledge you can gain is going to assist you so you should pat yourself on the back for learning as much as possible. Do recognize though that we can only speak from our knowledge and experience and keep that in mind that as you grow in the hobby you may find things that work for you and things that do not.>
Well, let me first explain to you the status of my tank up to this point (I have learned that the more information that I provide, the better, and the more chance I have of knowing all of the problems associated with my tank). This may be rather detailed, but I want to be sure I don't miss telling you anything that you may think needs to be corrected. Sorry, I work in engineering and probably am boring you/providing unnecessary info, but I believe if I send this information it will prevent finding out errors sooner rather than later. <No worries.>
The Tank is a 75 Gallon Reef Tank. I have over 75 lbs of live rock, and about 1/4" of sand in front of the rock for looks only (approximately 5 lbs). This tank was started in January of this year.
Filtration includes two of the Large Penguin Bio-Wheel (Bio-Wheels removed) Filters, (I believe Penguin 400 -$79.95 retail) inlet on the left placed high in the tank, and on the right placed lower. For circulation in the back, bottom, left hand corner of the tank there is a 185 GPH powerhead moving the water behind the rocks. On the other end in the top, back, right corner of the tank there is a 225 GPH PowerSweep helping blast the top of the rocks and reef. In between the two Bio-Wheel filters sits a Seaclone 100 which pulls out 1/2 cup of black skimmate every 3-4 days.
Lighting consists of 6 X 65 W PCs- 2 10k, 2 Actinic, 2 50/50 and Lunar lights. Actinics cut on, 1 hour later 10k and 50/50's cut on, and run 12 hours. Then 1 hour later the Actinics go off, and the Lunars run at night.
I also have a unique set-up on top of my tank as well. For copepod and amphipod production, as well as nitrate reduction, I have a small 150 GPH powerhead pumping water from the top of my tank, into a 5 gallon mini bowfront (on top of my canopy) with overflows/baffles. The actual refugium part of this set-up houses a 1-1/2" sand bed and a large ball of Chaeto (along with cultured tigger pods, mysis, bristleworms, and snails), lit by a 13 Watt 10K Mini-Lamp on a reverse photo-period to prevent PH swings. This overflows into a 2 gallon surge tank that fills about every minute and then dumps into my tank via 3/4" PVC very fast, I would say at a rate of about 500-700 GPH. It's sort of my own cheap wave-maker. The best thing is the flow diverts through a tee and I have it directed towards the reef.
Water is topped off with RO water with added buffer. I perform 13 Gallon water changes (gravel vac) every 5-6 days with Salt water supplied by Fish Safari in (Virginia Beach, VA). GREAT STORE! I feed MYSIS, frozen Cyclops-ees (sp), DT's (1/4-1/2 capful per week) and Dried Nori, and have recently began feeding Formula 2. I have some Zoe on the way to soak my MYSIS.
I supplement Bio-Calcium (This stuff makes coralline go absolutely out of control), Bio-Strontium, Tech I, Tech M (Switching to a powdered Magnesium supplement soon), and SeaChem Buffer. I also use Carbon in my filters.<The only thing about using carbon is that it maybe taking out most of what you are adding in by way of additives. Just a note for though.>
Before you beat me down over the tanks population, just make sure you realize that I often bring in large fish for store credit (Fish Safari gives 1/2 what they will charge for it, if you bought the fish from them). I have 1 Yellow Tang (approximately 3-1/2"), 1 Blue Hippo (Maybe 2"), 2 False Percs (about 1-1/2"), 1 Orange Spotted Goby (3"), 1 Six-line Wrasse (1-1/2"), and 1 Scotter Dragonet (maybe 2"). I consider my tank fully stocked and realize that both tangs should/will be removed when they become larger. My clean-up crew consists of 2 Emerald Crabs, approximately 30-40 Astrea snails, 1 Turbo Snail, 1 Cleaner Shrimp, 20 or so small Hermits. <The thing you should watch for with the tangs is that they will stop growing.>
Corals include various Xenia, Zoos, Montipora Cap., One Small SPS Birdsnest, Sinularia, Green Long Polyp Longitudinal, some mushrooms, and a Wellsophyllia Brain (sorry for the incorrect spelling) that hasn't fully opened lately. Any advice on the brain would be great, he used to open fully and now isn't. I believe this may be related to the Alk so I'm bringing it up now.
Water Parameters-
SG- 1.023-1.024 - just increased recently from 1.021 over a week Ammonia, Nitrite, Phosphate and Nitrate are all 0, maybe some traces of Nitrate Calcium - 410
Alk- about 7-8 DKH (down from 11 about 2 months ago)
PH - 8.3 Day and Night for the last few months.
Magnesium- test kit on the way
I recently set-up my new 40 gal QT (Had to get rid of African Cich tank first) tank but before this I ignorantly allowed a six-line to be placed into my tank without QT. The Six-lines eye was popped out a few days later but being that my yellow tang is aggressive I thought it may have been a wound (on one eye). <Definitely could have been that or multiple other things in an unfamiliar tank. The fish could have run into something even but naughty, naughty for the no quarantine.> Then last night, both eyes were clouded and "popped out", along with one of my Blue Hippos eyes. My Fiancé also pointed out that there was white Stringy material hanging out of the Six-lines gills. <The white stringy stuff sounds like slime coat to me but without seeing it I cannot be sure. Definitely means the fish is in some kind of distress.> My water quality seems good, so I fed Kanaplex and dosed the tank (knee-jerk reaction). I also added my first dose of Melafix (Is this stuff worthless?) and cut my protein skimmer off. These fish are difficult to remove, being that I would have to remove my canopy, the 5-gallon, and all Rocks to catch any fish. I'm wondering if I should continue these treatments and what can I do to help this situation. Should I remove the carbon? What should I do? <Doesn't do any good to dose anything if you have carbon because it takes it back out almost immediately. So definitely remove the carbon. I personally think you need to consider an antibiotic into the tank.>
I also have some BGA (Cyanobacteria) on the sand in my tank that has shown up since introduction of my Six-line, It's only growing on the sand and I am vacuuming it out as it comes. Any advice here? <Only since the six line showed up? Hmmm sounds like you have some tank quality issues. One thing here, while your varied selection of food sounds great that seems to me to be a large amount of food.>
I'm sure you all understand the situation now and can help. I want to apologize for the depth of this e-mail, I just didn't want to miss anything. I seem to have at least compiled all of my current questions into one e-mail, so that makes for less e-mails I guess. Have a great day and hopefully you guys can help out.<Randall I think you have a bacterial infection happening in your tank. Regardless of how the six line got it, he appears to have it and it is spreading. The blue tang in my experience is always the first one to show up with it as it goes through the tank. My personal experience with melafix wasn't good but we have many readers who have found it very successful. Good luck, MacL>
Randall Steele Smith
"A concerned father"

Re: Long E-mail... Sick Six-line... Need for advice, More on the ill six line – 8/19/07
<Hi Steve, MacL here with you again>
Alright, Since the last e-mail below answered by MacL, here is what I have done. My six-lines eyes became popped out and cloudy and my Blue Hippo tang looked as if he had ick. I pulled the two fish out and placed them in my recently set-up QT. The QT tank SG is 1.012 and the PH is 8.2 I'm keeping the temp at 82. I added some clout last night) and some Melafix to the QT tank. I also noticed that both fish looked worse today so I attempted a dip of the Six-line. Since then I have placed him back in QT but both fish are
not looking well.
My question is should I being doing something different. Should I dip the Hippo. The Hippo looked great last night and I'm wondering if it is the water quality of the QT tank that may be bothering him.
In order to control Ammonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite (because I don't have very easy access to Saltwater. No R/O unit) with SeaChem's "Prime". I have been doing two 25% water changes a week.
The Ammonia has crept to 0.25 and Nitrite is 0.1, Nitrate is minimal. What should I do to fix this problem. <Steve sometimes the cure is worse than the original problem. I think tangs have real problems with nitrates in the water and you do need to get them down. Seachem does have some additional products that might work a little better to take care of your ammonia issues. I love prime but I think maybe their other ammonia product might be better for your issues right now. There are several things you can do for your problem now. First, be careful with the MelaFix and the clout. Clout is a very strong product and can do real damage in my opinion to the fish if not extremely careful. Also you didn't say if when you dipped your fish if you kept your ph the same. If not that would stress the fish as well. Tangs usually do well with dipping although they look horrible after being dipped. Especially blue tangs. Usually they will change color, in my experience going to a very funky whitish color and looking bad and often just laying on the bottom of the tank. I have dipped tangs for as long as five minutes successfully but you must be careful with them because they often will attempt to jump out of the dipping area. Are you letting the original tank go fallow for the one month period? How do you plan to clean it of the ick parasites? Honestly Steve, I would consider an antibiotic for the Popeye because often the after effect of the parasites that cause it is an infection. Hope this helped, MacL>
 

Six-Line Wrasse looks pregnant--is it? No useful info.   5/29/07 We have a six-line wrasse, and have had it for six months. We also have a pair of false Perc's, a flame angel, a firefish goby, and several snails and crabs. In the past couple of weeks, the wrasse has looked very different from when we bought it (besides being healthy and growing big). The stomach area looks like it could be pregnant... is this possible since there is not pair of them? <Mmm, not pregnant... but perhaps egg-bound...> Why would the stomach look pregnant? I can't find any information on why this would occur. Any information you could offer would be wonderful. We have attached a picture so you can see what we are talking about (hopefully you can see the huge belly). Thanks, Nick and Shar <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/wrasses/index.htm for the linked files above... and down to the Pseudocheilinus/Lined Wrasses... Bob Fenner>

Six-line Wrasse Disease? 5/23/07 Bob: <Hi, but not Bob, Chris here with you.> I've had a six-line wrasse in quarantine for 2.5 weeks now. <Good> Animal was very healthy, eating well - practically begging for food when he saw us. For the past week or so it was swimming mostly near the top of the tank, but seeming to do this to get a look at us & some possible food. Monday night (5/21/07) we noticed what appeared to be velvet or ich on the fish. <Bet you are glad you QTed him.> Definitely white spots. That night, when the wrasse was resting on the bottom of the tank, I noticed that it also looked like a film was hanging off of the fish. Photo attached. <I believe you are seeing the mucus cocoon that these fish create to sleep in at night.> I treated the tank (10 gal) with 4 drops of SeaCure copper treatment. Didn't want to give a full dose just in case this was something else. <I would not treat at all until you are sure of the diagnosis.> Next day, the wrasse was still lethargic and resting on the bottom.  <Check your water parameters, copper can wreak havoc on your biofilter.> <<This copper sulfate solution is gone here... ab- and adsorbed... RMF>> Didn't see the film hanging on the fish. Put 3 more drops of SeaCure in the tank and have maintained it at that.  Did partial water change (10%) to get refuse off the bottom of the tank. The spots are gone from the fish, but the animal isn't eating and it is still lethargic.  <Part of the normal life cycle of the Ich parasite, if that is what you think you have.> Fish swims to different parts of the tank, but very lethargic. Strange film still clings to the fish at night, but I don't notice it during the day. <Normal> Can you please let me know if I mis-diagnosed this fish and what might be bothering the animal?  Any treatment suggestions are greatly appreciated. I'm also attaching a photo of a sack that appeared in the tank when we first put the fish in quarantine. It may be totally unrelated, but I thought it might help. <Is unrelated unfortunately, and completely normal.> Photos were taken 2 weeks apart, the sack is the first photo taken, sick fish the most recent. Please let me know how I can help this animal. I appreciate your advice. Michael Astfalk <Unfortunately the from the picture I can't help you diagnose the white spots on the fish.  Give a look here for photos of some common diseases.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm  As far as the "sack" is concerned, it is normal.> <Chris> <<Is very likely Crypt. RMF>>

Re: Six-line Wrasse Disease 5/24/07 Chris & Bob: <Hello> Thanks for the reply. <Welcome> I read the article that you referenced and found the Crypto article by Bob. Still have questions. <Ok> So if it is ich, as Bob is suggesting, should I continue with the copper treatments as I had started? <I would.> I have the Seachem Copper treatment. <Make sure you have the Seachem copper test kit as well, best to use the manufactures test kit as well.> Salinity is 1.018 right now. Should I raise or lower that? I typically do the quarantine at 1.012 and was beginning to slowly raise it after the first week to get the fish used to a salinity that would match the display tank (1.022). Temp is 75F, should I raise this as the article suggests?  <Can raise it to 82 or so without any problems.  I would use the copper (testing levels daily) and slowly raise the SG back to normal.  It’s best to not mix treatments, way to stressful on the fish.> The fish is mostly resting on the bottom. Doesn't seem to really be eating, but it is still leaving droppings so I assume it is eating something when we're not observing. <Probably, try some meaty foods if possible, and see how it goes.> Should I be concerned about this and what do I do so the fish doesn't starve? Is this typical? <Not a good sign when a fish stops eating, may need to use live brine to start it eating something if it continues more than a few days.> Please let me know if I am doing the right thing and if there is anything else I can do. I don't notice the spots on the fish anymore.  <You are on the right path, watch the copper levels very carefully, wrasse are not terribly sensitive to it, but you really do not want to overdose.  Even though you do not see spots they are still there, treating the fish is the only way to make sure it is ok.  Daily water changes and consistent levels of copper are what is needed here.> Michael <Chris>

Re: Six-line Wrasse Disease   5/25/07 Chris: <Hello> I really appreciate the response. <Sure> Unfortunately, the fish was dead when I woke up this morning. I had done a 10% water change last night since the ammonia levels had begun to rise along with the nitrites. I was moving along exactly as you had described though - I was raising specific gravity, watching the copper doses. I still have questions though. <Ok> I'm about ready to throw in the towel on this hobby. I've followed Bob's book, and I also have Paletta's "New Marine Aquarium Book" which I had started out with last year. I do the quarantine tank, but I'm seeing almost 80% mortality rate to disease or stress/my errors. About 60% of these are in the quarantine tank. I only pick hardy fishes - Pajama Cardinals, Damsels, Firefishes, Ocellaris. It seems like once I get them in to my quarantine tank they're destined to die. The fish that I have in my display tank have been there for 8 months and are doing great. Only lost one in the tank since last fall and that was probably due to some predatory instincts of my spider crab (I suspect he ate my Clown Goby). <These also often starve to death since they feed mainly on corals, and do not get everything they need from most other foods.> How should I be setting up my quarantine tank in order to have the most success? It is  10 gal, no substrate, PVC fixtures & plastic pots for the fish, and small bio sponge filter run by an air pump. I break it down, typically, after each use and clean everything with a bleach solution -including the filter. <Good> I then cycle it back up again, usually doing low salinity (1.012).  <I would not do the lowered salinity, adds stress and needs to be checked very accurately when it gets down to that level.  If you do continue this make sure to get a refractometer and not a hydrometer, they are not accurate enough.> I use some fish food (frozen food preparation) to get the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels to rise. I will dose for about a week with Stability to jump start the bio filter. <Forget the Stability, get Bio-Spira, it works much better.  Must be kept refrigerated.>  After about 4-6 weeks, my ammonia is dropped but the nitrites stay around .5 and the nitrates stay at around 10.  <Might need more media to allow the nitrite to get to 0.> Any dealer I talk to says that I need to have something living in the tank in order for it to cycle.  <Nope, just an ammonia source, which the food provides.> I simply don't know what to do, so I purchase a fish.  <Are you getting all the fish from the same store, or maybe the same suppliers.  Might want to try mail order and see if you get better luck.  All stores and related whole-sellers are not equal.> Am I maybe having such bad luck by trying to cycle the tank with a fish? I'm not sure what to do. Someone else suggested moving live rock from the display in to the quarantine tank, cycle it, then take it back to the display. <Doesn't work.> I'm leery of this because I don't want to be using things between the two tanks. <Smart.> Could my bio filter be bad since I bleached it? <No, bleach has a pretty short life, usually inactive after a few days.  If concerned add some chlorine remover to the tank.> Could the copper treatments from the last two times have ruined the filter?  <As long as you replace the media you should have no problems.> I read articles on setting up quarantine tanks, but I haven't found anything that describes how to keep it going & maintain it.  <Basically water changes and more water changes.  Sometimes they need to be done daily.> I'm really looking for a good check list/guide to help me maintain it.  <Have you read Scott's article, as close as we have to a checklist.  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuarMarFishes.htm .> Your advice is appreciated. Thanks. Michael <Stick with it.  I bet if you use a more "normal" SG your results will improve.  Good luck.> <Chris>

Wrasse with swollen lips  3/10/07 Hello, I have a sixline wrasse with what I believe is a bacterial infection. <Mmmm> I am in college so my parents take care of my fish while I am away. While I love my parents they never seem to alert me to these problems while I am away, so I have no idea how long this has been going on. Now that I am home for spring break, I have transferred the sixline to an established quarantine (31 ppt salinity, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite, 8.3 pH) after trapping him in a plastic container to observe and possibly treat the wrasse with a pH adjusted freshwater methylene blue dip. I am hesitant because I had trouble making a diagnosis from the mostly-vague disease descriptions that I found in my available books and web resources. I have attached photos of the wrasse's mouth. <I see these> The wrasse also has some raised patches of light white on its body and is twitching slightly. Although he is eating Mysis shrimp and flake food well I have not seen any feces as of yet. If you have any ideas as to what the affliction is and possible courses of treatment please let me know. Thank you, Caitlyn <Is not really a disease as in an infectious or parasitic affliction... not pathogenic... But, skipping ahead, this is not an uncommon "developmental" condition from this specimen being damaged in capture, shipping, handling, perhaps a trauma in your system... The long and short of it, is that this is not "treatable"... but the specimen looks healthy otherwise. I would not "treat" it. Bob Fenner>

Re: Wrasse with swollen lips  3/10/07 Hi Again, Thank you for your quick reply. I do not know what to say as the wrasse's condition has deteriorated greatly overnight, upon observation this morning its face was completely swollen with some rough growths. <Yikes... I obviously "spoke"/keyed too "soon"... perhaps there is something else at play here... Though I stand semi-firmly by my guess as to primary cause here. Mechanical injury> I performed a 50 percent water change although water quality had revealed nothing. The fish is breathing heavily and lying on the bottom of the QT. The fish's condition has worsened extremely since I have been home. Still nothing I can do?? Please help, I do not think this is only stress. <I don't think there is anything efficacious you can actually do at this point. Such "developments" almost always quickly progress at this stage to death... sorry to state. BobF>

Sixline wrasse 1/1/07
Hey, I purchased a sixline wrasse about 3 days ago. My water parameters are all fine.  <Numbers next time, fine is relative.> But anyway, my wrasse is active and eating and seems do be doing well. My problem is that on the wrasse's left side, past the gill,  there is discoloration. I don't know how to describe this, it just seems like a patch of discoloration on the skin. Please get back to me with any ideas of what this could be, thanks a lot,
Mael
<Could be lots of things, physical damage, beginnings of a nutritional deficiency, disease, or just normal genetic variation.  Hard to be specific without more information and a picture.>
<Chris>

Hawaiian Fourline Wrasse w/ white spots  7/23/06
I have a question about my Hawaiian Fourline Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus tetrataenia)... He's been in my reef tank for a little over a year, and over the last few weeks, when the fish wakes up in the morning, he has small white spots on his body and fins, 30 or 40 spots total. These spots resemble grains of salt, and within 3 or 4 hours of the lights coming on, they are all gone.
<Is Cryptocaryon>
  I am wondering if these are just pieces of sand & debris that the fish picks up when he hides or buries himself at night?
<Mmm, no>
If so, I don't know why they would suddenly appear after a year's time?
<A latent, space-infested problem...>
If they are a skin parasite or some sort of infection, then why would they disappear every day?
<Improvement in the diurnal resistance, immune system of the host... the spots are not the parasite... the parasite not the spots... but the resultant irritation marks...>
The Hawaiian Fourline Wrasse it acting normal, and has a healthy appetite.  He is not being harassed by any other fish or invertebrates.
All of the other occupants of the tank appear completely healthy.
Water parameters:
pH - 8.3
Nitrite, Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - undetectable
Calcium - 410ppm
dKH - 11
SG - 1.026
Temperature ranges from 81.7F-83.1F daily
Thank you in advance for any advice,
Steve in Denver
<Could be that you might get by with this "ping-ponging" situation for years hence... Much more likely "something/s" will change to shift the balance in the parasites favor... see WWM re Crypt... what you might do/consider for actual eradication. Bob Fenner>

My 6 line wrasse needs help   2/1/06
I am trying to save a 6 line wrasse I bought about 4 weeks ago.  It had a large abdomen at the time but seemed otherwise healthy.  Over the last
few weeks its abdomen has swelled greatly.  Its now has severe buoyancy problems, it tries to wedge its self to stay upright and flips upside
down if not moving. Its vent is inflamed, and at times a thick ivory colored mass seems to protrude then retract.  I am treating with MelaFix
<Worse than worthless>
in a hospital tank, and suspecting an intestinal worm or other parasite.
<Maybe>
The fish is still eating well.   Is there any thing I can do to help this fish or is euthanasia the best option?
Thank you for your help,
Kim    
<Only if in your opinion the animal is "overly" suffering. I would add a level teaspoon of Epsom Salt per ten gallons of system water here... and see if "this too passes". Bob Fenner>

Re: my 6 line wrasse needs help   2/2/06
Hi Bob, Thanks for the response! I will try your suggestion, I hadn't considered Epsom salt.  
<A very useful, inexpensive, readily available, safe cathartic>
I did use Prazipro last night, which is fish Droncit and ordered Discomed on line last night when no one in town had it.  I gave a brief, 2-3 minute dip, which it didn't seem to enjoy much as it thrashed about, I removed it when its breathing became labored.   But right away worms began being expelled.
<Interesting>
  They were almost ½ inch long, very thin on one end with the thicker part the last to come out.
<Likely either nematodes or acanthocephalans>
One was still alive but died right away. I looked at it under a microscope and didn't see any obvious segments.
<Cutting a coronal section near the distal (head) end and looking end-on may reveal a roundworm definitive triradiate esophagus>
The fish abdomen was much smaller this morning and it seems a bit better able to maintain its balance. Two more questions if I may:
If it survives, I am wondering how I will know when it is "cured" and safe to go into a tank?  
<A few weeks...>
This is my first experience with this problem, so I am also wondering how infectious this type of problem can be?    
<Mmm, as in spreading to other fish species? Not very in general... and all fishes (and humans for that matter) have gut and parasite fauna>
I had hoped the MelaFix would help with the vent inflammation, I take it your not a fan. I will stop using it today.  
<I would (stop)>
Looking forward to seeing you again at the WMC, Morgan tells me he may be coming as well.   It should be a great time.
Thanks again for your help.
Kim
<Will indeed... and twill be a hoot. See you then/there. Bob Fenner>