Overflow Gurgles 7/27/09
Hi there, I have an overflow question for my 125 gallon reef ready tank.
<Okay, hello Aaron.>
It is a 125 gallon All-Glass Reef Ready system. I have a Marineland model 4 sump in the basement directly below the tank that I built a stand for so it is right below the ceiling. About 8' from sump to top of tank. My
problems are that on the tank, the right side gurgles about once a minute.
<Usually an indication of a siphon in the line, not desirable.>
I can watch the water level rise about 2" to the upper part of the standpipe then it gurgles and drops back down.
<Definitely a siphon.>
The left side does not, but however in the sump in the basement the right side has major flow, and the left side has very little. The right side you can just see the water pouring into the chamber with tons of bubbles and lots of force and pouring onto the filter media tray, and the bio wheel turning rather fast. On the left side is very slow flow. No bubbles, no force, and just running onto the filter media trays with no force at all,
and the bio wheel spinning rather slow. When the right side gurgles in the tank you can see the rush of water in the sump as it gurgles above.
<It sounds like the right is siphoning, while the left is not.>
I have a 1" pvc drain line going straight down into the flexible (Pool hose) line with a slight upside down question mark then into the 90 that is in the sump.
<This "upside down question mark" can trap water within, leading to this kind of siphon. But another issue below.>
For returns I am using 2 mag drive 18's. The returns are not straight shots. The one on the right goes straight up through the floor to a offset with 2 45's back up into the tank. The left side goes up 90's, goes through my UV, 90's out and up into the tank. It is very noisy. I need help with, why the gurgling and up and down water level on the right side.
And why not enough force on the left side.
<First I would make sure both lines are equally aspirated/vented. You may have to remove the P traps on the overflow lines, but the real issue here just sounds like too much return flow for what these lines can handle. I would go no more than 300 gph per drain. Keep in mind even this leaves no redundancy in overflow capacity should one fail. See:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/BulkheadFloRateArt.htm.>
You have always been there when I need help and I really appreciate it.
P.S. When I called Marineland to ask them all they could suggest is that maybe my tank wasn't level, and was rushing more water to the right side.
I checked for level and it was off (leaning to the right) just a smidge.
The bubble in the level was just crossing the line. Could this cause problems.
<Not the problems you are facing, but others. See:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/aqstdleveling.htm>
Thank you
Aaron
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Overflow Gurgles 7/28/09
Ok. So if it is a siphon problem, how do I fix it. Both standpipes have 1/8 holes in the top of them. Also when I first got the sump I was running the mag 7 on the left and mag 9.5 on the right. That was nowhere near enough flow.
<It will not be for total tank flow through two 1" overflow bulkheads.>
It was barely coming out of either side onto the media. So I got a mag 18 and put it on the right side, and put the 9.5 on the left.
That helped on the right side but still not enough on the left. So I finally got another mag 18 and I have plenty on both sides just a lot more on the right. If I could split it down the middle it would be perfect. I have ball valve shutoffs on both side and have tried tuning the right side down some but by the time I notice a difference I'm half way off on the right.
<Will be the case.>
So you think it sounds like a siphon problem. I'm not sure how that works, If you could explain it to me that would be great or just let me know if there are any solutions to the problem. I've heard of sticking a air tube down the hole.
<This can help in a pure siphoning situation. Your siphoning is caused by flowing more than the drains can handle. This causes the water level to rise, at some point enough to force more water down the drain.
This in turn creates a temporary siphon (despite having the line aspirated) that ends in that flushing noise you are hearing at the end of every cycle. You really only have two options to fix this.
One is to decrease the flow through the overflows and replace that flow with supplemental flow such as a closed loop or powerheads. The other option is to drill the back of your tank within the overflow boxes to gain more overflow capacity. A couple of 2" lines will put you in very good shape.
The downside of the latter option is the need to take the tank down to do it, but if it interests you at all, see:
http://reefercentral.com/Videos.html on the drilling process. Do also see:
http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm for more of an explanation on the 1" line issues.>
What would that do.
Please let me know what you think.
Thank you so much
Aaron
<Welcome, Scott V.>

What should I do?  Overflow noise   04/23/09
I have this 25 gallon aquarium with a very loud overflow. It is so loud it interferes with answering queries. How do I fix it?
<Hun, I hate to say it, but if you can't fashion a baffle for that overflow box, maybe we should just get a new tank (the glass part, not the stand and all). Then you/we could drill the hole in a better place, make a new
overflow box with a proper baffle (like the one Mike offered us). I don't know... but that thing this is incredibly loud!
Cheers,
Sara M.><<Should have proffered a referral... B>>

What should I do? 04/23/09
what? cant fashion a baffle? of course i can r u nuts?
<Hmm, I'll believe it when I see it.... or, better yet, stop hearing it.
;-) - Sara M.>

Unknown tank part in built in overflow 4/7/09 Hi! <Hello Gretchen.> I just purchased a very much used AGA brand 125g, with 2 built in pre-drilled overflows. I am still in the process of cleaning it. I found a piece in the overflow and I don't even know where to being searching for what this item is since I have no clue what it is called, nor what it does. <Hmmm...it was likely at one time tied to the drain on the opposite overflow aspirating the line. It appears to be a "resonator chamber", used mostly in engine type applications. The idea is it smoothes out the air flow and quiets things down.> I posted on a forum that has some of the more knowledgeable fish folk that I've seen, and they don't know what it is either. I don't even know if it belongs in the drain pipe. <Not a drain, a component of one, like I said, it was most likely tied into the opposite overflow line.> It's a plastic bulb with an airline-sized hole on top, and a hollowed stem which fits in the drain pipe. I attached 2 images, and here are the links for the purpose of making it archive friendly: http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww227/wontonflip/125gallon/DSC00050Small.jpg http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww227/wontonflip/125gallon/DSC00051Small.jpg It is only in one of the overflows. The other one is missing. I'm hoping one of the crew could identify it and tell me what its purpose is. <Skip it, run this line and the larger one in the other overflow box both as drains with "Durso" type standpipes.> Thanks in advance! Gretchen <Welcome, see http://wetwebmedia.com/diy_durso_pipes_jg.html and http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm for more on this plumbing and how to do it. Scott V.>

Oversized drain and noise 2/21/09
Hey guys, hope you're all doing well!
<Hello Dave.>
Wondering if you can clear up some confusion for me.
<Sure thing.>
I am about to pick up a standard dimension 120 gallon tank with a single internal corner overflow with two 2.5 inch holes in the bottom.
<Wow! A tank with appropriately sized throughputs out of the box for once.>
One is going to be used as a drain, and the other for return. I have a 30 gallon sump, and an Eheim 1260 for a return pump. The expected flow out of the sump, taking head pressure into account, will be about 430 gph.
<Reasonable expectation.>
I have been reading your website regarding plumbing, and have the impression that I should go with the largest bulkhead and stand pipe I can fit (being 1.5 inch) for both redundancy, incase there's a partial blockage, and to keep the noise to a minimum.
<Yes, exactly.>
I contacted Richard Durso on his web site to ask about his 1.5" standpipes that he rates at 1500 gph, but he encouraged me to go smaller, because of the relatively low sump flow I have planned!
<Whoa, red lights, sirens going off. There is no reason to go smaller...this is like saying you need a smaller garage door because your car fits in too easy. And a 1.5" line will flow nowhere near 1500 gph.
750 gph is a good working number, almost 900 gph in the absolute best case scenario with all of the planets aligned properly at 12 noon on the vernal equinox. I am aware his site claims 1500 here and 600 gph out of a 1" line, but these are both far cries from the real world, actual quantified testing. For those that want to see:
http://www.dursostandpipes.com/?page_id=14|
To get the skinny on what is really going on read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm
 this is only about the 1" bulkhead, but the 1.5" bulkheads are way overrated in the industry in much the same way....sorry to be so long winded about this, but there are so many sources out there misleading people about overflow rates that have so obviously never quantified the actual flow.>
He said that such over sizing would actually make things louder because a lot of air would be getting sucked into the pipe due to the minimal water, and produce a boiling water kind of noise!?
<Hmm, no. The amount of air drawn into the line has nothing to do with line size, it is all about how much volume the water displaces in the line as it moves through.>
I could go with the 1.25" pipe he offers, which is made to fit a 1.5" bulkhead, however this goes against everything else I have read, unless I misunderstood.
<You did not misunderstand, going smaller does indeed lower your draining capacity, to the tune of 300 gph or so in this case.>
Which is it, does over sizing the drain increase, or decrease the noise?
What do you recommend?
<Keep it 1.5", if you read through many of the online forums, many if not most out there advocate actually making the standpipe itself larger for noise reasons. There is not any validity to this either IMO.>
Also, given my two 2.5" holes, how large of a pipe and bulkhead hole would you use for the return...is there any benefit to over sizing this as well, to a 1.5 incher... or should I stick with the more common 1" or 3/4"?
<Stick with 3/4" for the flow you are talking about running.>
Thanks very much,
Dave
<Welcome, Scott V.>

LOA <Lights of America, brand... fuge lighting> install instructions if you want them, Standard Durso Issues <noise, flow...>  2/11/09
Hello,
<Hello John!>
Well I'm getting there on my 65g as a first timer. I have the sump and fuge running and have some rock on order :)
<Great!>
------------------------
On the LOA fuge light:
------------------------
Thought I'd pass on how I hooked it up as it's probably a little different, and more detailed, than what I've seen on your sight. It a very safe implementation, as it keeps the light off of the fuge cover and offers a toggle switch for convenience.
You need the following:
1 Plastic Outlet Box w/threaded knock outs
1 Cord strain relief (via compression fitting) liquid tight connector w/male box threads 1 Box cover with plastic switch toggle on it (usually red in color) that has a 'marine' mark stamped on it.
1 15 amp toggle switch w/ground screw
1 Cord w/plug (Has to be 3 wires Black, White, and most importantly Green!).
Instructions:
Remove box knockouts first, one on the back and one on the side.
Attach box, using the back knockout hole, onto the light stem w/silicone.
Attach strain relief connector into the side knockout of your choice.
Insert cord into the strain relief connector leaving 4-6" of cord in the box and then tighten the nut on the cord forcing a good compression fit. This connector is critical as it prevents cord movement and will also end up being water tight.
Install switch by connecting the black wires to the screws on the switch, connect the white wires together via wire nut, connect cord green wire to the green screw on the switch.
Install box cover by placing the red switch toggle on the back side of the cover, over the wired switch's toggle. In this case the cover serves as a switch for the switch and keeps your salty wet hands away from the real switch itself. The enemy here is not getting a shock, but rather corrosion within the switch, which eventually means a fire inside of the plastic box.
You now have a liquid tight working light with a big red toggle switch on the box for turning it on and off.
<Nice.>
You can now use the 4 holes on the outlet box to run string, cord, etc.. to hang the light from your stand, so it hangs 1" away from your acrylic fuge cover. Attach your string to an eyelet above so when you work on the fuge you can simply grab the cord from the eyelet and move it away. You can now use the light's stem screw to adjust the angle of light entering the fuge.
Finally, silicone over all metal screws once you have it adjusted to extend their life span from corrosion. Plug your light into an outlet w/GFCI protection. I hope this helps someone.
<I have no doubt it will, these are great inexpensive refugium lights. Thank you for sharing your instructions.>
------------------------------
On my Durso overflow gurgling:
------------------------------
Sorry to trouble you with this very common problem, but I was not successful in using the aspiration trick. It's the crappy 1" drain thing. Where were you guys when I bought my tank! I blame you all ;c)
<Well if the things would just flow as advertised there would be no problems!>
Kidding aside - I'm running a puny Mag5 and I inserted air tubing (smaller than the standard 1/4" ID) down the air hole and moved it around to various depths and it seemed to make no difference. Do I really need to back down
the flow from a mag5?
<Hmmm, you may have to from what you describe about your overflow line below. These longer runs do have an impact on the flow ability of the drain.>
Sheez.. I did not go below the bulkhead in terms of depth as I was afraid of the air tubing coiling down at the bottom, resulting in eventual overflow clog/block. Do I need to go below the bulkhead joint?
<On a bottom drilled tank with a standpipe? No. The line should end within the first few inches of the standpipe, near the top. This is where you need to introduce the air, break the siphoning.>
My return line is far from ideal, it has 2 90's and a horizontal flow, with a decent slope however. This is because my sump is in another room. If I could do a redo, how many times have you heard that one!, I'd drill 1.5" holes in the back...
<Well, think of how long you will have this tank, how much more comfortable you would be with larger drains. You don’t even have rock in the thing yet, the time is now if you have any inkling to drill larger holes! Not just for more flow, but for redundancy.>
Anyhow, as a side note the water line is consistent so it's not siphoning.
<Good.>
I'm wondering if I should try a larger ID air tubing?, or maybe even rigid air tubing? There is quite a bit of noise coming from the inserted air line, making me wonder if the ID is too small?
<It that the noise, the aspiration line? If so check out http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbnoisef4.htm, the fifth query down or so. It is a simple and cheap silencer that will quiet that line down to a whisper.>
Not sure why this isn't working based on the success of other WWM posts?
<It sounds like it is working fine if your water level is consistent and stable. If the line noise is the issue, try the silencer, it works wonders.>
Thanks as usual for any help.
John
<Welcome my friend, and thank you again for sharing the Lights of America tips. Scott