Centropyge Eating Coral ...You've Got To Move It, Move It! 11/22/2007
To the WWM Crew
<Hello Flavio, Mich with you today.>
I just finished, one month ago, the process of joining two 450 l tanks sharing the same 120 l sump. One of the tanks is about 7 years old /established, so I simple add more 450 l of natural salt water, new and very fine sand and "dry" rock and connected all the system. The new animals are a yellow and a veliferum tangs, a loriculus, a bispinosus and a flavissima Centropyge, two tank raised Ocellaris and a Gramma loreto. Also there I put a Trachyphyllia, a hammer (Euphyllia) and a small Sarcophyton. All the fishes and coral are in good condition.
The only problem is that the Trachyphyllia is being eaten by the Lemon peel. At this moment about 10% of its tissue is damaged. Removing the coral to the other tank is a good thing to do
<Absolutely!>
or is the coral lost considering the amount of the injury and the coral species?
<If removed from the antagonist the Trachyphyllia will likely recover. I would not give up hope on this coral.>
The coral is lying from the first day on the sand bottom and today is not fully expanded.
<Likely because of the continued presence of the Lemon Peel.>
Thanks is advance for your advice and for your fantastic website.
<On behalf of Bob and the crew you're welcome! Mich>
Flavio

Wells brain coral concern  1/5/07
My Wells brain (Trachyphyllia radiata) will be OK for a week, then it will be very deflated for a few days. This has gone on for a few months. I've had this coral for over a year, and it has never "thrived." The other corals in the 40 gallon tank (with a 4 gallon 'fuge) are: Trachyphyllia geoffroyi (15 months in tank), about 8 Actinodiscus (15 months in tank), Montipora digitata (4 months in tank), and about 8 Acanthastrea lordhowensis (3 months in the tank). All other corals are doing excellent. The T. geoffroyi is more like a T. rex capable of taking out a small fish.
<Oh yes... and a clue here>
I feed the T. geoffroyi about every 2 or 3 nights (mysis shrimp, minced clam, flake food). The T. radiata also gets fed when the tentacles are present, but cannot take as much volume that I feed the T. geoffroyi. Also in the tank are 5 fish, some blue leg hermit crabs, and some Mexican turbo snails.   
  Lighting is 200 watts of pc, pH varies daily from 8.38 to 8.53, specific gravity goes from 1.0240 to 1.0245. Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are 0. Calcium is always 550-600 and alkalinity is always 10.6 to 12.3 dKH. Temp is 78.1 to 78.3 F (82 to 83 in the summer).
  I have some Chemi-pure in the protein skimmer return box and run a small filter with Poly-filters.
   <This all looks good>
  The M. digitata gets a high water flow. The T. radiata gets a low to moderate water flow, and the other corals get a low water flow. Any ideas on jump starting this coral? Should I move it into lower water flow?
   <Should move it to another system entirely... It is the loser here in the presence of its congener. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/corlcompfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Wells brain coral concern   1/6/07
Thanks. I had my eye on another T. geoffroyi (different color) at my LFS. I guess that would make matters even worse.
<Likely so... unless they are genetic clones (derived from the same stock sexually or asexually... Bob Fenner>

Hippo tang and Wellsophyllia incomp.  12/30/06
Hi, I own a 180 gallon tank and have had it for 3 years. I have 4 tangs and a regal angel all doing well in those 3 years that they have grown up nicely. I have been able to keep coral, like Galaxea, frogspawn, zoos, and bubble coral. I just bought a Wellsophyllia and nice opened piece of candy coral that has 3 big buds on it. I noticed that the Wellso had gotten nipped and the candy coral had been picked up from the left and moved 6 feet to the right of the tank. I thought maybe its the angel, but he doesn't go near them. I then placed the Wellso under a cave and put the candy back to the left side of the tank and waited to see who was doing it. I also suspected the vlamingi because i have seen him grab Nori that's attached to live rock with a rubberband and pick the rock up by pulling the Nori, he's a big fish but it wasn't him either. Its the hippo tang.
<Mmm, does happen some time>
My 2 questions are, i need to get rid of that tang right, his behavior not going to stop and any future coral hell chew or literally carry off, is that right?
<Yes, likely so>
The second is if the Wellso has a tear can it heal or is it pretty much done in a few weeks?
<Can heal>
What can i do to bring it back from its deflated state and back to its gelatin state. Please let me know. I hate to get rid of the hippo since i raised him for 3 years but if it has to be done let me know. If i replace him with another smaller hippo tang will this still occur.
Harry
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/trachydisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

H. diphreutes And Trachyphyllia (Yum-Yum) - 11/26/05
Dear WWM staff,
<<Howdy>>
I read and read and have become very, very friendly with all staff at LFS (My son even works there now).  But the more I discuss, and the more I read, the more I realize how much I don't know and how many different approaches may be successful... or not.
<<You "are" learning then.>>
At any rate: I have over the past year set up a 300G tank (96"X30"X24"), 90G sump; actually 50 G sump connected to 40 G cryptic refugium with about a dozen or so different non-photosynthetic sponges.
<<Neat!>>
Have just slowly started adding livestock over the past couple months.  Livestock: 1 Naso Tang about 7", 1 Harlequin Tusk about 4", 1 Banggai Cardinal about 5", 1 Magnificent Rabbit about 6", 3 Bannerfish (Diphreutes) about 3.5", 1 Chevron Tang (Strigosus?) about 3" 
<<Mmm, probably Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis...look here: Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis. >>, 1 Blue spotted Jawfish about 3",  1 Lawnmower Blenny about 4", 1 Male Filamented Flasher Wrasse about 3", 1 very small Hectorii Goby, ...just got rid of a pair of  beautiful Ocellaris today, 2 Queen Conchs (very small still), 12 large Turbo snails, about 12 smallish Trochus snails, 2 Peppermint Shrimp (although I think the Tusk may have gotten them by now).
<<Now or later...>>
Corals: all still small with the exception of a fairly large  
Plerogyra sinuosa.: a few Ricordea-both Yuma and Florida, Euphylliids-one medium large Torch, one medium Ancora, various mushrooms, one  medium Sinularia (cabbage), one very small long-tentacle Sarcophyton, one very small Pocillopora, one very small Montipora digitata, a  medium Trumpet with 7 polyps, one very small Blastomussa merletti, a relatively large but still localized colony of Xenia <<for now>>, one small Blue Sponge, one colony medium-large Star Polyps, a very small Entacmaea quadricolor that I resuscitated after all it's tentacles were rubbed off by an extremely obnoxious black Ocellaris (since removed), 3 rock anemones (one has divided twice), one medium-large Condylactis (Haitian purple tip).
<<Ugh...you were doing pretty good till you got to the anemones.  These motile animals have no place in a tank with sessile invertebrates.  You have a nice collection of aggressive corals which can be trouble enough...if those anemones decide to go "walkabout" it's going to be very ugly for all.  Even if they stay put, the chemical/biological warfare being waged will eventually lead to the detriment of everything.>>
Water chemistry has been great, nothing out of the ordinary, recommended ranges (by you guys, Fossa et al, Paletta, etc.).
Lighting: four 96w VHOs, One 400w 12,000K MH, two 250w HQIs
Flow: return pump about 1200gph, one Tunze 6200 Stream, one Tunze  
WaveBox, about 260# of live rock, over 3 areas from left to right as you face the tank
1. a slope from the left side and top gradually widening to about 1.5 feet at substrate level.
2. a central islandic bommie about a foot in diameter and to height   of about 1.5 feet roughly in the middle of the tank, but perhaps just slightly rightward.
3. a multiple cave system from the right side of the tank meandering leftward almost to the central bommy.
<<What's a "bommie"?  Marina>>
<<<Marina, a "bommie" is basically a pile of rock, surrounded by substrate, not touching other rockwork.  -SCF>>>
<<Sounds very nice...good to hear someone "not" building the usual rock "wall".>>
The sand bed is sugar fine and about 6 to 8" deep, this was seeded  
with about 30 pounds of live sand from my 35g.
<<Does the trick nicely, but may I suggest getting a cup or three from fellow aquarists/LFS to increase the bio-diversity.>>
I have a fairly large area towards the right side of coarser aragonite and rubble for the jawfish.
<<Ah yes...needs bits to bolster the walls of the burrow.>>
Now, sorry to be so long winded, but I thought perhaps if you know  
how the tank is the question will make sense and allow a more  
thorough answer.
<<Indeed it does.>>
I thank you heartily in advance:  I have had a gorgeous Pacific Rose Trachyphyllia for a year. The above mentioned black clown kept rubbing at it and it remained closed until I got rid of the clown.  Then it pretty much flourished with great color, feeding response, and expansion in a 35g.  I transferred it into the 300g about 2 months ago and thought it looked fine; when expanded its diameter was about 4-6".  I got the 3 H. diphreutes <<uh-oh>> on 10/28.  I have read that though they are generally better in a reef than H. acuminatus, they will pick on a sick or dying coral.
<<Mmm, no...not limited to "sick or dying".>>
Up until a week ago they did not bother the Trachyphyllia, then they started picking at it.
<<Not atypical...>>
I have to admit I couldn't really tell whether they were just  
aggressively going after mucous output, or actual tissue, but with the combination of the two Ocellaris (I got rid of them yesterday)  
rubbing at the brain, it just closed down completely, very small, no tissue expansion, no feeding response.
<<And will remain this way until its demise, in the presence of the Bannerfish.>>
I removed the Trachyphyllia to my 12g hospital/quarantine tank.
<<Smart move>>
I couldn't believe my eyes the next day, the Trachyphyllia was gigantic, a diameter easily 8-10" and the tissue so inflated that some of it was actually floating off the substrate.
<<Hee!  Helps when you're (the Trachyphyllia) not being eaten alive!>>  
Ate Cyclopeeze, oyster eggs, live rotifers very well and even a   couple small krill.
<<Do keep the pieces very small (minced).>>
After a week of just phenomenal expansion, and color, I thought since the clowns were gone now I would try to re-introduce the brain back into the 300g.
<<Uh-oh...again (dinner bell ringing in the background)...>>
I acclimated it (as I do everything) over 1.5 hours with continuous drip, then gently placed it back in the same spot it had previously occupied...the Bannerfish immediately started picking at it, the brain closed down, but not completely and the tissue was not so constricted that is wasn't still "mushy".
<<Still...not a good "condition" for the brain.>>
Then I noticed that the Bannerfish trio was not actually picking tissue but gulping mucous.
<<Will still likely lead to the brain's demise.>>
I watched closely for the better part of 2 hours, and I don't think they picked off any tissue, but the brain still stayed closed.
<<Yup>>
Should I just give back the diphreutes?
<<If you want to keep the brain, yes.>>
Should I see how things go?
<<I think we all know how things will "go"...>>
The brain is so magnificent when fully expanded and I have become so attached to it, that I would gladly evict the Heniochus (if I can  catch them) before ever giving up the Trachyphyllia.
<<There's your answer.>>
Thanks again for reading all of this.  Any comments, criticisms,  suggestions, general thoughts about the tank would be greatly  appreciated.
<<Already stated>>
p.s. After reading Fossa and Nilsson’s "Reef Secrets" I am greatly  intrigued by the idea of a large number of Lyretail Anthias in the  tank (they suggest 60 in a 190g tank) I was thinking more along the  
lines of perhaps 2 to 3 dozen. Thoughts??
<<A good choice as far as Anthiinae go (I have some of these in my 375g reef), if you get rid of the three Heniochus, I think 8-10 would make a nice addition...must consider the other large fishes already in the display.>>
Thanks again so much,
Dave Harvey
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: H. Diphreutes And Trachyphyllia (Yum-Yum) - 11/27/05
Thanks so much for your reply.
<<Very welcome>>
Yes it is a Ctenochaetus strigosus (Kole Tang, not Chevron, sorry.).
<<Ah, ok>>
Have taken your advice, and have removed 2 of the Heniochus, have not been able to catch the third yet.
<<Can be an "adventure", to say the least.>>
Have not seen the E. quadricolor move at all and have had him over a year.
<<Lucky so far.>>
Yes the condy has moved, but just up and down along the same plane.
<<Lucky again. <G> >>
At the LFS they have a huge (HUGE!!) E. quadricolor in a pretty well stocked (with both LPS, SPS, and softies) 220g with 2 A. clarkii that occupy the Bubbletip. Even so, I take it your experiences have not been good with anemones in a reef. Would like to hear more about this if you're willing.
<<Happy to Dave... I'm not telling you it can't be done, there certainly will be/are exceptions, but for the majority of hobbyists, mixing motile anemones with sessile invertebrates leads to tragedy, though sometimes it takes a while (even years) to manifest. And often so, the ultimate loser in all this is the anemone. Some have suggested these animals may be immortal...only succumbing to predation, disease, starvation, etc.. Considering this, how many folks do you know that have been able to keep an anemone for ten years? five years?
<<Like spitting in the ocean when one considers the natural lifespan of many of these animals.  MH>>
Anemones require excellent water quality/tank conditions, and fending off constant attack in a closed system does not fall in to this category. Even all this aside, do consider that when I answer queries I have no idea of your knowledge/experience/dedication to the hobby. It's my task to try to steer you, and those who read this, in a direction that is likely to succeed. And in my opinion, keeping anemones in a reef tank is not a formula for long-term success. I don't expect you/anyone to blindly take my advice...it is my wish to inspire you/others to think before acting, to do your own research, and to make informed decisions.>>
Thanks so much, Dave Harvey
<<Welcome my friend, EricR>>

Catching Heniochus diphreutes? - 11/27/05
Hello again,
<<Hello Dave>>
I did catch two of my three diphreutes (with a bottle trap) that were picking on my Pacific Rose Trachyphyllia. There is absolutely no way to catch the last one with a net in my tank (many, many hiding places) and at least for right now this last fish seems completely uninterested in the food in the bottle trap.
<<I would cease all efforts for a few days, give the fish a chance to calm down, and then try the trap again.>>
For the other two I placed 1 Marine-Two pellet, some frozen mysid shrimps, some Cyclopeeze. Might you suggest any other thoughts, tips, food suggestions to get this last Bannerfish out of my tank?
<<The foods seem fine (might try some live brine shrimp), and the trap is probably your best bet...but this fish is "riled up/wise to you now" and needs to be left alone for a couple/three days, maybe longer, before resuming.>>
Thanks again so much,
Dave Harvey
<<Regards, EricR>>

Strange Bedfellows? (Clown/Brain Coral Relationship)
Good evening Crew,
<Scott F. with you today!>
I've searched the sight and have not seen this question asked. I have a Green Open Brain (Trachy) in my 75G reef. About 3 weeks ago I introduced a Maroon Clown to the tank (after 4 wk QT). A couple days ago I noticed the Clown has taken up residence with the Brain. They both seem to be enjoying one another's company. To date, I've not read anything on Brain/Clown relationships. Is this common or an anomaly? Any enlightenment on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Greg, Chicago
<Well, Greg- this is an unusual, but not unheard of behavior for the clown. I've seen and heard of these guys inhabit everything from Feather Dusters to Elegance Corals, and lots of stuff in between. It's pretty cool to see! Clownfish often like to have a "host" of some sort to call "home base". It provides them comfort and  As long as the Brain Coral is not being irritated excessively by the Clown, you should just enjoy this strange relationship! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Flame angel and Trachyphyllia
Dear WWM
Cheers, my friend>
In the new year I am thinking of trying a Trachyphyllia brain coral.
<very fine, hardy, low light, sand-dwelling (free-living- never place on rock), feed 3-5 times weekly minimum with minced meaty foods... long-lived>
I have one that has been reserved at my LFS for 2 weeks. I am going to pick it up in the new year. However I have a flame angel in my tank. He has been resident for about 5-6 months in my tank
<hmmm... I see. Very good to hear about the hold on the livestock. Goes a long way for acclimatization into captivity (rather that frequent moves on import)>>
I have read that a few other reef keepers have had trouble with this species nipping Trachyphyllia. I also currently have pulsing Xenia, Favia and Caulastrea (candy cane) coral in there.
<yes... all are somewhat at risk of dwarf angels in general>
These have all been left alone by my flame. Is there a chance he will nip my Trachyphyllia?
<no guarantee, alas>
Also I might like to add that I feed my angel on granular food in the mornings.
<A Very concentrated source of food... good to hear>
Its called tetra prima granules (red granules). if you need to wean marine fish onto dried food, this stuff is really excellent (if you guys get it in the USA).
<agreed! An excellent staple and color enhancer. I believe that this product has gone through a marketing evolution of changed names over the years. First it was called Discus bits, then color bits... now prima? Perhaps I'm mistaken. Still... Tetra makes some very good dry foods. Thanks for sharing the tip!>
Here's a pic of the tank by the way. Cheers for all your help. Regards, Jim
<Happy holidays :) Be chatting soon. Anthony>

Attacking my brain! (coral) Trapping bristleworms easy 3/18/03
Hi guys
<cheers>
Can you please identify what is the stringy white strands that is coming out from the base of my brain corals?  <Pic attached, I took it by manually creating some current to "lift" up the polyps of the corals, and this is the best shot I have out of the dozens I took.  Sorry that it is only a partial shot.>
<no worries... it is quite clear. They are mesenterial filaments... they are used defensively when attacked and they contain stinging cells and digestive enzymes>
The strands tend to appear at the junction where the polyp meets the external circumference of the skeleton, on the underside of the corals.  Strands tend to "trickle" down to substrate.  This happened periodically among my Scolymia and Cynarina over the last few months , but the brains appear to be acting "normal" polyp expansion/shrinking through the daily cycles.  
<something is irritating or attacking it>
I have bristleworms disturbing my other specimens of Trachyphyllia,
<excess bristleworms indicate a nutrient export problem... you may need better water flow, less food and/or better skimming>
but somehow the bristleworms left the Scolymia and Cynarina alone.  Not sure if this white strands are related to the worm incidents?
<quite possible>
Cynarina is about 10 in diameter (6in skeleton), Scolymia about 6in diameter (3.5in skeleton).  Corals been with me for almost a year, and have shown slight growth (measured by comparing skeleton dimensions). Thanks in advance Ed
<you can remove a lot of the worms in just a week by baiting nightly with a tube that has meaty food in the center and loose packed filter floss on either end... the worms enter at night and lodge in the floss. Best regards, Anthony>