New Community Tank Setup, FW stkg.
9/20/07
Hello,
<Good Morning, Terri, Andrea here.>
Great informative site, thanks for all the wise advice!
<Thanks, I agree.>
I am planning to start my first ventures into keeping an aquarium as a hobby and
wanted to make sure I was heading in the right direction. I have done lots of
research <Excellent! Keep up the research and good work.>
on fish compatibility and have so far come up with the following for a 30 or 33
gallon tank. 6 Neon Dwarf rainbowfish, 3 yoyo loaches, 4 angelfish and 3 red
honey gourami's.<The gouramis, while small, may nip the angels and like a
slightly higher pH, KH than Angelfish. Likewise, the Angels, unless you cull
down to a mated pair, will quickly outgrow a 30-33 gallon tank.> The questions I
have are:
1) I have tried to come up with a suitable number of each species to suit them,
but I am concerned that I might be overcrowding the tank (and I even read that
angelfish and gouramis should be kept more than 3 to reduce aggression.) Are
these numbers ok for my tank?
<I'd say you are pushing it. I'd suggest starting out with the yo yo loaches and
Angels. Get 6 juvenile angelfish and wait for a pair to form. Once one does,
return the remaining four. Then stock accordingly from there. I feel the dwarf
rainbows would be a good addition at that time.>
2) Also I am quite excited to have a heavily planted aquarium. Do you have
suggestions for types of plants that would suit these fish species?
<In this tank, the Angels are more or less the centerpiece fish. Choose wisely,
and choose healthy, nice specimens. Read
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangelfishes.htm and the linked
articles at the top of the page. These are South American Cichlids. I'd suggest
plants from the Amazon/Pantanal region, where these fish are native. They create
a lovely biotope. Have you done your research on what a heavily planted tank
entails and are prepared with the proper lighting, substrate, pressurized CO2,
and fertilizers? You might look into some planted tank sites online. Try
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com and also the articles on WWM.>
3) I would like to have a fish group that are aware of their outside
surroundings and have interesting behaviour, do you recommend replacing the
gouramis with 2 of either German Blue Rams or Bolivian Rams? Would they be
compatible with this group? <My main concerns with the gouramis is that despite
their small stature, they are nippers, and will go after the angelfish.
Likewise, they tend to prefer solitary life, and will sometimes turn on each
other. This is less common with dwarf honeys, but not unheard of. Also, gouramis
are an Asian fish, and I tend to suggest people stay within the same continent
when choosing stock. The German Blue Rams and Bolivians however are a good
choice for pairing with angels, as they are also peaceful South American
cichlids from the same region. But I feel the breeding behavior of both groups
(Angels v. Rams) would eventually result in conflict. Choose either Angels or
Rams.>
4) Is their a particular order that I should stock my fish after I have cycled
the tank or just add all the fish right away? I read that yoyo's can
be sensitive so wondering how long (if any) I should wait before adding them.
<General rule of thumb is to introduce the most "shy" and "peaceful" fish first.
I encourage you to research the behaviors of your stock selection and go from
there. I'd start with the yo yos.>
<In closing, with Angelfish (a fantastic choice for a 30 tank if you go with
just a pair, also for planted tanks), make the pair your "centerpiece" fish,
then stock one or two small groups of schooling fish in a planted aquarium. Stay
away from tiny fish, however that will fit easily in an angels mouth. Neons
Tetras, for example, are their natural food in the wild. However, the six dwarf
rainbows, and perhaps a small school of other, slightly larger, tetras would
make a stunning display.>
Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you guys.
<Most welcome.>
Cheers <Back at ya.>
Terri <Andrea>
Re: FW Angelfish, Stocking plan, planted
tank start up. 7/21/07
Hi Andrea,
<Hi Terri!>
Thanks for responding so quickly! <No problemo.> This website is great and lots
of helpful advice. In regards to your reply about stocking my 30 or 33 gallon
tank, I have a few more questions:
1) You suggested getting 6 baby angelfish and wait for 2 to pair up after a year
or so, and then take the 4 extra out of the tank. I don't have anywhere to put
the 4 extra and the pet store does not take specimens back. Can I just try to
buy 2 directly from the store and see if they get along? I know its hard to sex
juvenile angels, so also assuming I got 2 males, will they display territorial
aggression in a 30 gallon space?
<You can always give it a shot, and keep a close eye on them. You want to try to
get a mated pair, which is why it is suggested to start with a larger number,
and cull down once a pair forms. Also, I'd ask the pet store why they won't take
fish back. That is unusual, except with (gah!) the large chains. Do you have an
aquarium specialty, local, fish only store anywhere near?>
2) After considering your advice I will not get gourami's and rams since I guess
my tank would be too small for them to be compatible, but what about 2
Apistogramma fishes? I really would like to get Apisto bitaeniata in particular.
I realize they too like rams are South American cichlids but still wanted to
know what you thought if there might be a difference if I changed the rams for
the Apistos.
<Good choice on the Gourami/ram combo. However, Apistogrammas and Angelfish
aren't going to get along well either. You'd be better going with angels and
gouramis if you must have one of the three (Gourami, ram, or Apisto), but I
encourage you to investigate another, non-cichlid, non-nipper option. Angelfish
are generally slower moving, slightly nervous, and long finned fish. This should
be your consideration when choosing the tank mates.>
3) In addition to the Rainbow neon dwarfs, what about adding platies to the mix?
I would like red fish in the tank to contrast against the blue of the dwarfs and
shape of the angelfish. It doesn't matter to me if the angelfish eat platy spawn
as Im not interested in breeding fish.
<I don't see a problem with platys.>
4) If the platies are not a good mix can you recommend another pretty red fish
that would go will with my setup?
<Platys should be fine. Another good choice would be something like a Serpae or
Von Rio Tetra.>
5) I have been reading a lot that clown loaches and angelfish go well together,
but I don't want to get clowns as they grow too big. Would a different loach
species be better suited compared to the yo yo loach? I am also concerned that
loaches are from India and like gentle currents and angelfish are from S.A and
like still waters, will this be a problem if I put them together?
<The loaches would be just fine. I suggest going with something smaller, such as
a small school of Botia Sidthimunki or a trio of Botia striata.>
Possible revised setup, 30-33 gallons:
6 neon dwarf rainbows <-- Fine.>
2 angelfish <--Fine.>
3 yo-yos <--See above about the loach question.>
2 Apistogramma <--Swap for a pair of dwarf gouramis (preferably honeys) with
close attention, or other non-cichlid fish>
5 platies (or less?) <--Fine, but this would be your maximum limit.>
<You would be FULLY stocked. Go slowly, and keep up your water changes weekly.
Plenty of plants and excellent filtration will be of great help.>
Thanks so much again for your help.
<Sure thing!>
Cheers,
<Yep!>
Terri
General advice, FW mix of Bettas, Angels, Pictus Cats... 5/12/07
Hi to all the crew at web media,
<Hello.>
I have a 47.5 gallon tank and currently have 8 platies (all pairs), One male
Betta splendens, four Angel fish Genders unknown and 3 pictus catfish (Genders
also unknown) could you tell me whether or not in your opinion there could be
trouble with the community I have described.
<Angelfish have been reported as "fin nippers" with fancy (as opposed to
wild-type) bettas. Angels aren't otherwise "nippy" but when kept with fish as
unable to swim as fancy bettas, they're certainly happy enough to have a nibble.
Angels and Pimelodus pictus, on the other hand, are an old, established combo
that generally works well.>
I did research and seek advice from veteran fishkeepers but would
still appreciate feedback from your site and will be very grateful.
<Very good. I'd not keep the betta in there, and would instead swap it for
something like lace gouramis or some type of medium-sized schooling fish, like
Australian rainbowfish or bleeding heart tetras. But if the betta is there now,
you may as well persevere and just be prepared to remove it if it looks nibbled.
Your other problem with bettas of course is they aren't able to compete for food
all that well. Hand-feeding the betta (easy enough to do) is one option here.>
Thanks in advance
Victor
<Hope this helps.>
Too much flow? Parrot Cichlid, Angel incomp. 4/21/07
Hi, Crew.
<Boris/Mark>
I have 29 g FW tank with 2 red parrots and 2 angels.
<Too small a volume... and incompatible mix...>
I'm using 2 filters AquaClear 200. I noticed that all my fish prefer to stay in
other side of the aquarium with no filter. Half of my aquarium is almost always
empty. Could it be the reason for this is to much flow? Should I remove one
filter? Appreciate your help. Excuse me for poor English.
Mark
<Worth trying... but these two species won't likely live together for long...
the Parrots will kill the Angels in time. Bob Fenner>
The truth about Angels and Discus 12/1/06
Hello,
<Hi there>
your site is very informative - thank you for providing so much useful
information.
<Welcome>
I have a 72 g tank with substrate and plants and am wanting to stock it with a
few discus and angelfish. There seem to be two schools of thought here; 1. the
two shouldn't mix, and 2. they are ok together. I am aware of the need for
frequent water changes and the need discus have for high quality water.
<Mmm... will repeat my S.O.P. response re these two cichlid genera... and
personal experience>>
I've heard more from the no. 1 camp to be sure, but would like to hear from the
2 camp. Surely someone has had positive results having the two species
together?
<Do know of this, but is a minority experience>
If they are raised together from a small size, would they not accept each other?
BTW I don't want to breed, just have a nice show tank. I've been told they could
be kept together until the angels spawn. I was thinking of getting about 5
discus and 3 or so angels. I have a few bottom feeders in the tank already
(Raphael catfish, 2 horseface loaches and an upside-down catfish - not all
Amazonian but seemingly compatible). I will drop this idea if I'm told that
there is no way of having the two species co-exist without too many adverse
effects.
Michaela
<There are folks who suggest that disease may be/is easily passed between
Pterophyllum and Symphysodon (most noted: Octomita)... but the real issue has
been behavioral incompatibility, with Angels almost invariably over-bullying the
Discus... causing them to go off-feeding... perishing subsequently from
"stress". Bob Fenner>
Angelfish not Compatible w/ Barbs... - 10/18/06
I purchased a medium sized silver angel fish from a reliable fish store a few
days ago.
<OK - hopefully you quarantined it, even though you find the store reliable...>
The first day it looked stressed; difficulty maintaining balance and
swimming. By the second day, its balance and strength seemed to improve. It's
now the third day and I expect any minute to see it floating. It's been hiding
much of the time behind the strip thermometer in the front of the tank. I
haven't seen it eat although I provide a variety of food for it (dried blood
worms, color bits, shrimp pellets and flake food.) I also have five bleeding
heart tetras, six red platys, a rope fish and a few feeder sized guppies. All
of the other fish seem happy.
<Have you recently tested the water parameters? I'd start buy finding out what
the ammonia, nitrite and nitrates are at, along with pH. Also, when you put the
fish in the tank, did you slowly acclimate it, or just immediately release it in
the tank?>
Would a partial water change/gravel vacuuming stress it out more?
<Depends on your water parameters - generally, water changes are never a bad
thing, however...>
What about moving it to another tank (10 gal) by itself for a while?
<You should have done this initially. If the fish was harboring some sort of
disease, it's now been introduced into your main tank. If the fish still isn't
acting well, I would quarantine it ASAP, though. Make sure to provide hiding
places (plants, decor, etc.). Also, in the present tank, have you been able to
observe if any of the older inhabitants are picking on the new arrival?
Especially the barbs - they can be very fin nippy, and the angel, with its
beautiful fins, could find him/herself being bullied, which obviously would
cause stress. In all reality, angels and barbs should not be housed together.>
I called the store where I got it (in a tank by itself) and they said it was
healthy and eating well there.
<What else would they say?!>
Out of the four angels they had, this one seemed most active when I bought
it. Now it just hides.
<I think you have an incompatible mix of fish here - you will likely have to
find a new home for the angel...with peaceful tankmates, not aggressive ones,
like barbs.>
I have plenty of plants in the tank, but it seems to prefer the
thermometer. What should I do? Will it eventually get used to its tankmates or
is it more likely to starve to death?
<Incompatible. Either set up a suitable species / peaceful community aquarium
for the angel or return it to the fish store. Do make sure to research species
compatibility before purchasing...check out A Simple Guide to Freshwater
Aquariums by David E. Boruchowitz if you haven't yet...>
<Good luck, Jorie.>
Jorie Misread Last Email - Apologies All Around. Angel Fish with Tetras...
- 10/18/06
I don't have any barbs unless they go by a different name. The 29 gal tank has
a rope fish, six platys, five bleeding heart tetras and a few guppies? Which
ones are barbs?
<I apologize for my mistake, Jennifer - I misread your list. Your stocking
scheme seems fine, but whenever a new fish is introduced, you should look out
for bullies. Your setup seems good, complete with plants and all for cover, but
do make sure no one is harassing the angel.>
PS. Chemicals were fine.
<"Fine" is subjective - ammonia and nitrites are both at zero, and nitrates no
more than 20 ppm (at the very highest?)>
I did the water change and moved it to a 10 gal tank with a mild mannered
female beta, a glow light tetra (large) and a neon tetra (large).
<Sounds like a good idea.>
I would have put it by itself but the beta didn't like the turbulent water in
the big tank and the rope fish would probably eat the tetras.
<I understand; sounds logical.>
Angel seems healthier and has started to eat a little food.
<Great sign.>
It hides behind the plants during the day but swims around at night. I have
noticed it's tail seems a bit nipped since I moved it. Territorial tetras?
<That would be my first guess. You could try re-arranging the decor, etc. so
that the angel isn't so much the "newcomer" - this can work with territorial
saltwater fish issues sometimes, so I would think the same theory would hold
true in fresh...>
I haven't seen any problems but I can't imagine who else could be doing it.
Angel doesn't swim as fast as they do.
<I agree. Perhaps the tetras can go into the 29? If not, I'm not sure what
options you have, besides finding another home for the angel...>
Thanks for your advise.
Jennifer Pickett
<Jennifer, I apologize once again for misreading your initial e-mail - no barbs,
I see that now! As you point out, though, the tetras may be bullying the angel -
if the re-arrangement doesn't help sort things out, you may have to play
"musical tanks" again...best of luck. Jorie>
Sometimes the small fish can be the bullies! 10/24/06
Thanks for your advice. I moved the tetras to the larger tank. One
disappeared but the other's doing fine. The angel fish immediately left the
corner and began swimming around the whole tank. It's fine with the female
Betta. It's amazing how such tiny fish could intimidate such a large one.
<I know - never ceases to amaze me. An extreme example of this is the
strawberry Pseudochromis (marine fish) - it's one of my favorites, due to
its beautiful magenta coloration, but even at its max. size of 1.5 or so
inches, not even the hardy clownfish could likely stand up to it! And, as I
mentioned, I've got the same phenomenon going on with one of my mollies - a
female, at that. After killing her boyfriend (plus being the suspect in a
few other molly deaths), she's been relegated to living alone in a 5 gal.
hex...>
Two days later, I moved the tri-color sharks back to the 10 gallon tank. The
platys were bullying them. They're much happier now. Musical tanks worked
well this time. Only one tiny casualty.
<Sounds like things are going well - sorry you lost the one tetra. Once
everything is established, you may be able to add another one, if you
like. Good luck! Jorie>
Thanks again,
Jennifer Pickett
Setting Up A FW Angelfish Tank - 10/14/06
Hi my little brother told me about your site when I told him I wanted to set
a freshwater angelfish tank like his. My question is could I put 4 adult
angelfish in a B45 gallon Odyssey bow front aquarium. Also what plants do you
suggest to use with these fish. Also what kind of tetras do you suggest to house
with angels.
Thanks -- Sbatiste
< Four angelfish will fit quite nicely in that aquarium. I would recommend
medium to low light plants like Anubias, java fern, and come Cryptocorynes. Small
tetras like neons may get picked on by the angels. I would recommend larger
bodied tetras like rosy, bleeding heart or emperor tetras.-Chuck>
An angel community 9/21/06
Hi everyone I had a couple of quick questions to ask, I was
wondering how many of each of these fish could I keep in a 40 gallon
planted aquarium, here's the fish: angelfish, German blue rams, true
rummy nose tetras. Also would a blue crayfish be compatible with 2
clown loaches,
<Ah, no>
and 2 gold algae eaters.
<I'd seek out other than Gyrinocheilus species here. Some
Loricariid... of small ultimate size... Listed on WWM>
Thanks
--Sbatiste
<A pair or two of Angels (should be okay unless they start spawning,
likely just a pair of Rams, and a school of what size suits you (for
me, 5,7,9) of the Tetras. Bob Fenner>
Breeding FW Angelfish Are Aggressive 8/19/06
Hello Bob and Crew, Ever since one of my angels laid eggs, she has been
extra aggressive towards the other one. She was always dominant, but it is
getting pretty bad. I
figured that if I add in another angel and switch the decor around that would
give her more to think about. We have some angels at the pet store where I work
that are similar of size but the one I have permission to take is the most
aggressive in the tank. Will this be a problem if the new one wants to be the
dominant one? I just don't want my angel to get beat up because she's real
pretty and all she "can" do is hide in the back corner beneath the plants.
Thanks for your help and advice!
< Angelfish are cichlids and really don't like other fish around when they have
fry or eggs. An over protective mother with guard the eggs from her mate if she
thinks that he is going to eat them. Adding more fish will give her more fish to
beat up. If she has no mate then reduce the temp to the mid 70's and she will
stop breeding and she will not be as aggressive.-Chuck>
Adding FW Angels, Bob's go 7/3/06
How many angelfish can I add to the tank I already have which is 37
gallons and has:
- 2 angels
- 1 male dwarf gourami
- 1 ram cichlid (pretty sure it's a male)
- 2 platys
- 2 female pineapple sword tails
- 2 Cory cats
<Mmm, actually, I would add no more here. The two you have already about
"fill up" this space (with growth, age), particularly if they should display
reproductive behavior... and force all other fish livestock to the
corners... More angels added would almost assuredly bring about this
consequence>
If I can add any more angels to this tank, I would have to buy angels that
are about 3 times smaller than the ones I have in my tank already. My angels
are
pretty big compared to the ones at the pet store so do you think they would
pick badly on the newer , smaller angels I would add?
<None IMO>
I have a hang on back filter which I converted to a biological filter like
the ones they use for ponds and an undergravel filter also.
Thank You!
<Perhaps another aquarium can be found... Bob Fenner>
Adding Angelfish to A Tank, Chuck's go 6/30/06
Can I add any more angelfish to this setup? If so, how many?
37 Gallon tank
- 2 angels (about 3 times the size of the angels I would purchase, is that
too big?)
- 1 male dwarf gourami
- 1 ram cichlid
- 2 platys
- 2 female pineapple sword tails
- 2 Cory cats - if I would not add any angels, how many Cory cats could I
add to make these guys happier, because I understand
they like to be in groups of 4 or more. Thanks
< The angelfish would eat any livebearer fry that were born in this tank. The
"feelers" on the gourami would be mistaken for food and bitten off. You could
add 4 to 5 angels to this tank easy assuming that you have adequate filtration
and do regular water changes.-Chuck>
FW Set Up For Long Term 4/6/06
Hi Chuck, Thanks for your quick response. Unfortunately, I wasn't quick
enough to save the medium angelfish described before and lost them within 48
hours.
The angel that was a fry when placed in the tank is now 1 1/4" and been named
Savage by my daughter. In my frustration at losing the fish, I was
prepared to take the pleco and Savage to a LFS and sell or give away the tank
and equipment. My wife convinced me to purchase 6 neon tetras which I
did almost two weeks ago. Of the six, I lost two. One got stuck to the intake
of the carbon filters, and the second died due to an unknown reason.
Meanwhile, I've followed your advice with the exception of a quarantine
tank. I've been unable to convince my wife that it would be money well
spent, but she's starting to agree. I've also removed 200 lbs of the gravel.
On the advice of my LFS, I've begun adding 1 Tbsp of kosher salt per 5 gallons
of water when doing water changes and added some artificial plants.
Tuesday, April 4, twelve 1"-1 1/2" angels, provided by a different dealer than
the previous fish, were added of which two didn't make it through the
night and two are improving, but they still show signs of stress. The other
eight are beautiful, active, and eating well.
Current tank conditions:
Population: 11 small angels, 4 neons, 1 large pleco
Ammonia: 0.0 ppm
Nitrite: 0.0 ppm
Nitrate: 0.0-5.0 ppm
Ph: 7.8
Temp: 82 degrees F
I'm concerned about the compatibility of the angelfish and the tetras,
especially as the angels grow. Should I increase the school size of the
neons until I'm able to purchase and cycle another tank?
< Depends on what you ultimately want to do. Adult angels potentially will
injure or kill neons when hungry. In the best case the neons will be stressed by
the larger fish and never really show their colors.>
Hopefully, all will do well enough to cause me to deal with the potential
overcrowding.
I'm beginning to suspect that my Ph is actually higher than my test indicates
and have ordered a high pH test kit. Would lowering the pH be good for the
fish?
< A pH of 7.8 is at the upper end of their range. I would not try and change it
unless I was prepared to continue to do this for the long haul. Try and keep
the water clean and see how they do with out any pH modification.>
I understand from other writings on the website that a consistent pH is most
important. However, if I'm able to condition the water in such a way as to make
the fishes more comfortable, I'm happy to do it. If yes, what's the best way to
proceed? Have I chosen the proper diet for the fish? What else should I be
doing to make the lives of the fishes,
long, without stress, and disease free while I continue to work at getting a QT
tank? Many thanks, Chris
< Keep tabs on the nitrates and do not let them exceed 20 ppm. Feed the fish
once each day and only enough food so that all of it is eaten in a couple of
minutes. Occasionally add some algae wafers for the pleco, even though the other
fish will go after it too.-Chuck>
Angels, tankmates and tank size? - 04/05/2006
Hi there
<Hello.>
I have an established 40gallon freshwater tank which was given to me 8 months
ago by my stepfather. It has gone really well so far, no losses (touch wood) and
everything seems hunky dory. I'd like to set up an additional tank, using your
guides on how to set up - as it completely new to me, but I'm not too sure on
which fish to buy. I'd like angel fish and a Plec for definite, if possible, but
can you offer some advice on the best tankmates and those to avoid... also how
big a tank would I need to keep 2 or 3 angels plus a couple of others?
<Mm, can get by with a pair of angels in say a 30 or 40g tank, but do keep in
mind that 3 angels will lead to having only 2 angels. These are cichlids, after
all, and therefore VERY aggressive during breeding. You could start with a half
dozen small ones, and as they pair off, get rid of all but your favorite
pair. A Bushynose Ancistrus Plec or any of the smaller, meat-eating
Hypancistrus plecs would do well in a 30 or 40 with the pair of angels. In
fact, you could probably do a pair of either the Bushynoses or Hypancistrus
(L260 "Queen Arabesque" plecs are my personal favorite) and breed both the plecs
and the angels in the same system, perhaps. I've seen others do the same. If
you do a large enough tank for other tankmates, some of my favorites to suggest
are smaller Botia (I like B. striata), Pantodon buchholzi / African butterflies
(may need live insects as food), larger livebearers like platies or swordtails,
moderately sized, placid tetras like emperors or Congo tetras.... Lots and lots
of options for you. I would stay away from other cichlids (except perhaps some
of the smaller Apistogrammas if the tank is big enough) and definately steer
clear of any of the "nippy" tetras and the like. I'm sure you'll have fun with
this endeavor! All the best to you, -Sabrina>
Angelfish Tankmates - 03/09/2006
Hi to all at WWM. I have recently purchased a new tank and have 4 half
marble angelfish. What I would like to know please is if I can keep south
American and African cichlids in with them. I have been told they are aggressive
so they cannot but according to my books on tropical fish they are only
aggressive when spawning. I would really value your advice please on this
matter. Thank you Ann
< South American dwarf cichlids like Apistogrammas would be fine. Medium sized
peaceful cichlids like festivums and keyholes would also work. Some aquarists
also keep some discus and Uarus with them too. African cichlids are much too
aggressive and have different water conditions to be put with
angelfish.-Chuck>
Dear WWM Crew, I read through all the questions on your angelfish page and
could not find a question that involved my particular concern. Me and my husband
have a freshwater tank, quite large, 20 gallons I think. I have several
different types of fish in it, and they all seemed to get along well until
recently.
I have two angel fish. Both are quite large as I’ve had them for years. One is
a very pretty colour, silver with black stripes, and the other slightly bigger
one has faded stripes and is more bluish-gray in colour. They always seemed to
get along well, but within the last few months, they are always attacking each
other.
First the smaller silver one (who is still big in his own right) would
constantly attack the other on his neck area, below his mouth. The skin in that
area seemed to be torn and was being affected. Eventually that died down, and
then the other one, the larger bluish grey one, started constantly attacking the
silver one, biting his mouth all the time. Over time, his mouth became red and
the skin connecting his mouth to his face became ripped at the sides and he
literally had holes on either side of his mouth. I became VERY CONCERNED, as I
love that fish above all others. I thought that if this did not stop, his mouth
would come off and he would die (I keep saying ‘he’, although I’m not entirely
sure it’s a ‘he’!).
So I put a barrier in the tank and isolated the silver wounded angelfish, and
kept all other fishes on the right side. Both angels kept trying to ‘bite’ each
other through the plastic, and seemed desperate to get back together. Many
mornings we’d wake up and the bluish angel fish would be on the other side of
the barrier! We don’t know how he got through – maybe pushed the plastic to one
side and squeezed through, or jumped over the top of the barrier, as the barrier
does not read the top of the tank. Every time they would get back together it
would be biting time all over again (not constantly, but still very much) and
again we’d separate them.
At first we thought it was the blue one trying to get to the silver one to
attack him, but one time we separated the blue one into isolation and kept the
silver one on the right side with the rest of the fishes, and he was DESPERATE
to get back to the other side to his mate! If he was weary of being attacked,
why would he do that? He kept pushing against the plastic and I though he would
hurt himself, so we switched them and put the silver one back on the left side
of the tank on his own. He calmed down after that.
My questions are:
1.Why are they behaving like this?
<Angelfish are cichlids and are very territorial. You may have two males that
are disputing territories in a small 20 gallon tank.>
2.Is what they’re doing aggressive behaviour? (I don’t see how it couldn’t be as
the silver one’s mouth was practically coming off!)
< Many times cichlids actually go for things like the eyes but the defending
fish intercepts the attack with it's mouth.>
3.Is it because they’re too big now?
< No doubt they are sexually mature by know and this makes me thing that they
may be two males.>
4.Should we remove one from the tank and find it another home?
< That would probably be the best long term solution.>
5.If we do remove one (it will probably be the bigger one, because, as I said, I
have a fondness for the silver one), is it safe to buy another small baby
angelfish and introduce it into the tank (As I love angelfish!)?
< Not unless you get a bigger tank. You best bet would be to get six young
angelfish. As they grow they will pair up. Each pair can be placed in a 20
gallon tank of their own for spawning.>
6.Should we remove the barrier and keep them together again and see what they
do?
< They will probably just fight again.-Chuck>
I’m sure you have tons of questions, but please reply as soon as possible
- this matter is very unsettling!! Many thanks, Waheedan Jariwalla
Marble Angelfish With Community Fish
- 10/24/05
Hello My name is Amy. I have a nicely sized marble veiled angelfish, whom recently I noticed is getting coppery/orange hues around her/his eyes and
the top of its head and top fin. The fish is at least silver dollar sized, no other symptoms or problems seem to be present. It swims great eats
well-happily and voraciously--no change in shape/size/behavior and no one is aggressing it. Just wondering if there may be a problem I need to fix. The tank
just got changed, no high ammonia levels. Is there copper in a tank?
< The colors you describe are normal for marble angelfish. This is in the genetics of the fish. May be somewhat affected by diet and lighting.>
I am moving in the next month and will be giving the fishes to friends and don't want to contaminate their fish in their tanks.
< Good idea.>
Also, can you have 2 angelfish in a tank that is a 100+ gallons with 2 discus 1 angel
fish some guppies/loaches/o-cats?
< Angelfish go well in a community tank set up as long as the smaller fish can't be eaten by the angels. I would watch out for the guppies.-Chuck>
Tank Suitability of Angels
Hello and thanks to the Crew,
I received an answer about my Azie (?) Shrimp, and yes, I think they are
definitely taking chunks out of my other fish, in fact I think the big one got
one of my otos ! So back to the LFS I go with them.. My question is, would I be
able to introduce 2 small young angels in with my neons/cardinals, otos, black
widows and soon to be Corydoras sterbai...we have a 240 litre Juwel aquarium all
set up for a south American river habitat? The aims is to build up, at the
moment we have otos, 2 neons (used to be 6 but due to shrimp there are fewer!)
Thanks for any response
Cheers, Nicola
<The angels would be another suspect for eating small fish when they get
large enough. -Steven Pro>
Goldfish & Angelfish
Hi. I am a beginner at this, and I just purchased a 55 gallon tank.
<Well, welcome to this beautiful hobby! May you have much success
and enjoyment.>
I have 7 goldfish, 1 pleco, and 2 Angelfish. I was wondering if its okay
to have angelfish and goldfish together?
<Not really a good idea; goldfish like colder water temperatures, and can
contract illnesses more easily in higher temps that the angelfish would need. Also,
keep in mind that goldfish get rather large over time, and are very messy fish;
your tank is really at its limit with seven goldfish. Goldfish and
tropicals together can be done, but one or the other will suffer for it.>
the temperature in my tank is 78 right now.
<This is fine for the angelfish (though a touch warmer would be better), but
not for the goldfishes. Goldfish should be kept closer to 68-70F or
thereabouts.>
I got my fish at Wal-Mart and they couldn't answer my question. I have a 10
gallon tank also and if The angelfish cant live with the goldfish then I plan on
putting them in there.
<Well, unfortunately, angelfishes get quite large, too, and a 10 gallon is
too small for them. They'll be alright in there for a while, but will
definitely need a larger tank in the long run. Basically, you're set
with a few options: move the angels into the 10g and plan to upgrade to a 29g or
larger; skip the angelfish altogether, and keep the 55g as a coldwater tank (the
Plec should be okay down to 70F, I'd think), or skip the goldfish and do a
tropical tank with the angels, the Plec, and some other tropicals. If
you're feeling adventurous, you might even want to do a small pond for the
goldies, then turn the 55 tropical. Lots of options, but all costing,
unless you're willing to give up one or the other.>
Thank You.
<You're quite welcome. -Sabrina>
Angelfish 'n Platies
Crew,
I read the post & Sabrina's reply to the reader with an impressive
collection of FW fish in a 58G tank.
<Say my name, and magically I appear! Sabrina with you, today>
Among the multitude of fish in the tank were angels and platies and swordfish.
Over the years, I have never had much luck keeping angels and platies/swordtails
thriving in the same tank. My daughters have taken over the FW in our house now
that I have moved to SW. My 10 y/o wants an angel and a swordfish, but I have
resisted so far.
<One swordtail wouldn't be a very happy fish - they really like/need to
school. Two females (or more) per every one male. At that,
one angel wouldn't make for a very happy critter, either, I'm afraid - and
angels will eat baby swordtails, so don't plan on raising many. On
top of that, two angels in a tank will likely try to breed, and will turn
aggressive to their tankmates. I prefer to see angels in larger tanks
where they can have space needed to establish territory if they do breed (at the
least, a 55 gallon tank, IMO, to try to have other fish with them).>
Am I correct in my understanding that their optimal pH and hardness ranges are
different enough that it is difficult to keep them together?
<I wouldn't think so; platies, swords, and angels have been bred in captivity
long enough that they can tolerate a very wide range of pH and hardness. Angels
will tolerate pH much lower than the platies and swords, and the platies and
swords can go with a much harder, alkaline water than the angels. Platies
and swords can even go brackish. But I definitely think there's
enough neutral ground to keep them together (as long as you're not dealing with
wild stock).>
Also, the fish guy at the local Petco tells me that the hardiness and general
health of the swords and platies available at retail had been going down in the
past few years, probably from genetic problems.
<Likely true. The same can be said for guppies and mollies, as
well, I would think. Too much selective inbreeding without taking
care to add in fresh genes.>
I've been hearing similar concerns about angels recently - too much inbreeding
for certain desirable traits leading to problems with other genes.
<Exactly. I've even seen in stores in the last couple of years
angels with very significant deformities - missing or malformed fins, malformed
heads, etc. If possible, try to get angels from good, reputable
breeders instead of from stores where some of the angels exhibit
deformities.>
Thanks, Steve
Angel Finds Neons a Tasty Treat (4/22/04)
Hello - I cannot thank you guys enough for the awesome website! <It's an honor to play a small part. Steve Allen here tonight.>
I've had a planted 29 gallon freshwater tank running with only an Angel (about 4 inches) and a
balloon bellied molly for quite a while. All of the other fish died of velvet and these two were the survivors. Today I decided that the tank could use some new inhabitants and I really wanted small schooling fish. I purchased a 3 pack of neon tetras and finished acclimating them about 2 hours ago. Unfortunately my 3 pack is now a 1 pack and my Angel fish now has a pot belly, so he got a very colorful snack. <Tasty too.>
I really want to keep some sort of schooling fish in this fairly small tank. My question is if I buy more of the neon tetras will they have a better chance of survival in a bigger school (maybe 6-9 of them to create confusion) or am I just buying an expensive snack? <Number two. The Angel will pick them off one-by-one in that small tank.> Are there other small schooling freshwater fish that are better at escaping or a bit bigger so they wont fit in the angels mouth? <Not small ones. You could put maybe 4 or 5 somewhat larger tetras such as Lemon or Serpae. These ought to be OK, but since your Angel is already rather large, start out with near-adult size ones. Another possibility would be Golden or Cherry Barbs, but these could get a little too big. The angel will continue to grow somewhat bigger, so you need to be careful not to put too many other fish in there.> Thanks in advance for the advice :) <Hope this helps.>
Angelfish puffer fin damage
Hello...I have a question about fresh water Angelfish...My son bought a
green spotted puffer and put it in the tank with his other fish...it proceeded
to bite one of the long feeler like fins over half way off. My question is will
this feeler or fin grow back...? the puffers are now history and live across the
street so there is no other problem with them. I was just kind of worried about
the angel at this time...I hope you can help...thanks Echoe
< Your angelfishes fins will grow back, just not as straight and not as long. AS
you have already found out, puffers have teeth and like to use them on slower tankmates.-Chuck>
Angelfish and Gourami aggression
Hi there!
Great website! I just got a brand new 20 gallon aquarium. I have a few
dwarf gouramis and a couple of tetras. I also have a young ghost angel fish.
The angel fish is constantly nipping at my gouramis, although they are
pretty much the same size. I was wondering if there is a certain type of
fish or group of fish that I can get that will reduce the aggressiveness of
my angel. Thanks,
< The long feeler type of ventral fins of most gouramis look very much like
hanging worms to many fish. You could add some "dither fish" to the tank. There
function is to distract the more aggressive fish so they don't pick on the
slower more peaceful species. Peaceful fast moving tetras like rosy's or
bleeding hearts may be worth a try. Your angelfish eventually will get larger
and you may have to make a decision on which ones you want to keep.-Chuck>
Kathryn
Possible angelfish tank-mates
Hi there,
Thanks for your recent help with the guppy fry...
I now have a question about angelfish which I'm sure you can answer if
you have the time.....
My girlfriend and I are soon to be setting up a tank for angelfish, and
would like some suitable tank-mates.
After browsing the web and learning that angels are compatible with
dwarf-medium South American cichlids of similar temperament and size.
Our local fish stores stock both keyhole and firemouth cichlids (amongst
others), would these be suitable?
< Keyholes yes, Firemouths no.>
Are there any other common cichlids
that the angels would get along with?
<Sure, Lots of dwarf cichlids in the genus Apistogramma and rams, Kribs to
name a few.>
Also, I was thinking maybe a small herd of bronze Corydoras to keep the
tank clean, are there likely to be any problems there?
< No all sounds good until they decide to breed. Cichlids like angels are
easy to breed and when they do they chase all the other fish away from their
eggs and fry.-Chuck>
Cheers!
Liam
Re: Possible angelfish
tank-mates
Hello
I'm just following up a question you answered for me *see below)
i was just wondering if, when mentioning Kribs you meant the Krib sold under
that name (don't know what the Latin name is, sorry!), or the Pelvivachromis
taeniatus, or if both types of fish are suitable tank mates for angels. The
Pelvivachromis taeniatus are beautiful!
< The old name for the fish I was referring to was Pelvivachromis
kribensis
or "Kribs for short as a trade name. The current name is P. pulcher. Any
fish from the group Pelvivachromis would be a fine tank mate for your
angelfish.-Chuck>
thanks, Liam
Goldfish and angelfish
Hi, I have had my goldfish for over two years now, I change their water every
month and feed them every other day, and they were in a 2 gallon tank.
<Hi there...Jorie here. A 2 gallon tank is an extremely small space for even
one goldfish...how many did you have living in there? While I congratulate you
on not over-feeding (something that leads to poor water quality very quickly),
the reality is that goldfish are quite messy and produce a lot of waste, and you
probably should have been changing this water at least twice per week.>
About two weeks ago, I got a 10 gallon tank, and my fish are fine.
<Great to hear...I'm sure they appreciate the additional space! Do keep up on
the water changes, though...50% twice per week at a minimum, in my opinion.>
But now I wanted some more fish in the tank,
<Well, I think you were pretty full to capacity already...>
I went to a fish store and I got 2 angelfish and two snails. I asked a man
about adding angelfish to my goldfish, he said that I shouldn't mix the two, but
he said that they both might be ok.
<Definitely should not be living together, as you are dealing with cold water
vs. tropical fish. Totally incompatible.>
I know that goldfish are to have 65-70 degree water and
angelfish 75-82, but my goldfish are spoiled and they are always in 74 degree
water (they have been for the two years, and they are doing fine) I would like to
know is it ok for me to add the angelfish since I have the two snails (which
will clean the tank) and since my goldfish like warmer temp.?
<I would absolutely recommend against adding the angels. Perhaps you can enjoy
watching your goldfish relish in their additional swimming room in their new
tank? They will lively behave much more actively now. Maybe change the decor if
you are dying to try something new? Plants, if you don't have any, would look
nice...something like Cabomba, which are tough enough for goldies and provide
them some munching food? Also, I want to point out that the snails will pick up
*some* leftover food in the tank, they do not actually "clean the tank", per se,
and you still need to do regular water changes.>
And please tell me what I can to do so.
<I don't mean to sound harsh, Mel, but in reality, a 2 gal. tank really wasn't
appropriate for your goldfish. They are likely very happy in their new
digs
and, in my opinion, you are now full to capacity. You could always start
another tank...!>
Mel
<Regards, Jorie>
Lonely Angel
I have a 20 gallon tall with one koi angel that I have had for nine months.
She is the only one in the tank and is doing great but sometimes I'm tempted to
get her a friend. Would there be enough room? Should I get one of the
opposite sex? Or should I forget this idea entirely? By the way your web sight
is awesome!<Thanks>
<Sure, As long as your angel is small enough you could add another. But realize
that in time they will outgrow the tank. But so will a single. Hard to sex them.
Unless you are looking to breed them, I'd add 3 or 4 Cory catfish instead. Don>
sincerely, Erica
Lonely Angel
Just how big can Angel fish get? <About 6 inches, but remember they are
taller than long.> Do you have any suggestions besides bottom feeders, because
they don't do well in my tank due to very little algae. <First, Corys do not eat
algae. Most do very well on flake and pellets for meat eaters. As for midwater
fish, your choices are almost endless. Danios would do well. Don>
Mixing new, established FW angels, Plecos
Mr. Fenner I only have a couple of more questions for now. I was wondering if angelfish living together are going to be ok because
I already have two angelfish and I was think of getting two more of the same size, and two of
the x-large angelfish (for a total of six angelfish), I was wondering because I've read some articles that tell me that they can be/come a problem
with the other angelfish and other fish alike.
<Yes... only a good idea if the tank is quite large... four feet long... sixty or more gallons let's say>
My last question was if adding a pleco to my tank in addition with my angelfish would be OK or if it
would be/come a problem. Thank you for your time Mr. Fenner
<Likely the species of "Plecos" available would be fine. Bob Fenner>
Angelfish Aggression
Thank you, Chuck at WetWebMedia, for your quick response to my urgent question/problem. I have taken your advice to heart, and took the angelfish out of the goldfish tank. I agree that possible aggressive behavior on the part of the angel would eventually be a problem. I do think I saw a new nip or two out of the tail of my shubunkin. His tail is frayed a bit anyway and the other goldfish are CONSTANTLY playing.
There is no way that I could leave any even POSSIBLE danger to my sweet goldfish. They are just so cute and happy and do seem to enjoy life so much. So, the more docile male angelfish is back in the tank with the fighting female, with a separator between
them. They have spent most of the time just staring at each other. She is seen occasionally trying to bite through the separator. She really IS aggressive.
He, seemingly emboldened by the separator, will approach her and try to nip her through the plastic, too. At first,
though, he was pretty crept out to be back so close to her and retreated to his furthest corner. Then he realized he was protected. Poor guy. I have a 10-gallon that I may put him in eventually. BUT I DIDN'T WANT ANOTHER TANK!!!!! The work! The work! The work! I feel like I have devoted every spare minute the past two years to FISH!!! But I love them. I do. And I wouldn't give this hobby up for anything. Sincerely, and thanks again
Rebbie.
<I am glad that your fish will happy and healthy for a long time with a caring owner like
yourself.-Chuck>
Angelfish with Goldfish?
I have had two young angelfish in a 20-gallon tank (with plans to upgrade soon to a 29-gal.) for about a month now. They've grown quite a bit. Day before yesterday, the apparent female (belly swollen) began to pick on the apparent male. I found him sort of cowering in the corner, fins torn in several places, so I reluctantly moved him to my 50-gallon tank which houses two goldfish and three
Rainbowfish and three Siamese Algae Eaters (I know, but it has worked beautifully for two years now).
I am not interested at all in breeding the angels, but most of all I don't plan to subject the more docile male to this
harassment from the female again. After almost two days, he seems quite happy in my 50-gal. My questions are,
1) do you think there is a hope of compatibility between the angel and my goldies long term ? So far, they seem to be ignoring each other and things are fine, and also
2) are angels OK, kept singly, with other fish like rainbows? Thanks for any advice you can give!
<The angelfish comes from warm soft acidic waters in South America. Your goldfish come from cool more temperate waters. I think eventually one or the other will have a problem and you will need to
separate them into their own tank. Eventually the angelfish will get big and may start picking on the goldfish too. Rainbow fish are very fast and active. They may outcompete the slower angelfish but in general they should be ok.-Chuck>
What Won't Go in This FW Tank
Just browsing through the site and it's very helpful but there are some things that I just cant find anywhere on the internet so I would appreciate it very much if you could help me here.
<That's what we are here for.>
I have a pretty average 50 gallon tank and I'm building a community of smaller tropical fish, so far I have a school of neon tetras, 5 angelfish, a pleco and a male fighter (Betta) and they seem to be gettin on really well. Sometimes the biggest angelfish chases the
Betta but only for an inch or 2 then gives up, but he also bullies the smallest angel too so he is probably just a
bully. The Betta hasn't shown any signs of aggression to any fish since he has been in my tank, (2 months). So so far its going well, but I
want to get some more types of fish to include, like some common fish like barbs, guppies,
Knifefish, catfish, etc possibly some rare ones too, could you give me a small list of fish that
DEFINITELY will not mix in my aquarium. Thank you very much please reply soon.
<As your angelfish grow they will eventually eat the smaller tetras like the neons and begin to pick on the
Betta and tear his fins to the point he may die. As a general rule of thumb, stay away from fish that get too big, like
Oscars. Otherwise, once you decide which fish you want to keep out of your current set up, I would go with fish that have
similar water conditions and all stay around the same size.-Chuck>
Angels and Clowns
I have a 90 gallon show tank. It is decorated with wood, a single large piece of holey limestone, black gravel and floating plastic bamboo plants...sort of a sparse
Zen look. It has clown loaches (2"-4")... they eat out of my hand...and
Bushynose Plecos... the Plecos are actually breeding on a routine basis.
The pH is 7.2, temperature is 80 degrees, and ammonia and nitrite are zero. It has been up and running for 18 months. I use two Emperor 400s. I change 10% of the water daily and wash out the filer pads in the process.
I want to add a few angelfish. Are they compatible with the clown loaches? The loaches are pretty active sometimes. Also, would the angelfish help control the pleco population? My LFS gives me $2 each for them...several hundred dollars so far... but it is a hassle to take everything out of the tank to catch them and it disturbs the fish.
>> You should be able to add some angels, but please start with medium sized fish, the activity of the clown loaches at night may bother the small angels. They will, unfortunately, eat some of your baby
Bristlenose Plecos. If you want to catch your Bristlenose babies without having to take the tank apart try putting some food (romaine lettuce, tied to an airstone) at night, with a net underneath it. The baby
Plecos will enter the net from the top and swim down to eat the lettuce in the stream of bubbles. Use a flashlight to see when
Plecos are in your net and lift! Good Luck, Oliver
<<
