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| FAQs on Freshwater Angelfish Selection
Related Articles: Freshwater Angels,
Discus, Juraparoids,
Neotropical Cichlids,
African Cichlids, Dwarf South American
Cichlids, Asian Cichlids,
Cichlid Fishes in General,
Related FAQs: Angels 1,
Angels 2,
Angelfish Identification, Angelfish
Behavior, Angelfish Compatibility,
Angelfish Systems,
Angelfish Feeding,
Angelfish Disease,
Angelfish Reproduction, & FAQs on:
Wild Angels (P. altum),
Cichlids of the World,
Cichlid Systems,
Cichlid Identification,
Cichlid Behavior,
Cichlid Compatibility, Cichlid Selection,
Cichlid Feeding,
Cichlid Disease, Cichlid
Reproduction,
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Angelfish is pushing
smaller angel fish PLEASE HELP ME 11/18/09
Hi, i just bought a 29 gallon tank and put three angel fish in it. two
swim around together all the time (I think they're koi fish) and the
smaller white one ( blushing angel i think) always hides in the corner,
comes out
sometimes and not always; but sometimes the biggest one pushes the
smallest one around and it is sad he opens his mouth and pushes at him.
the biggest one even does it to the medium sized one, his pair mate or
whatever.
<Unfortunately this is very common. Angelfish are not "sociable" fish as
such, and should either be kept singly, in matched pairs, or in groups
of six or more. Six is the magic number with Angelfish and Discus,
seeming to be the minimum number needed to get them to school
peacefully.>
Should i get rid of one of them, if so which one since he pushes both
around i thought i should get rid of the biggest one cuz he is mean. or
should i get rid of the smallest one?
<Yes, rehoming the third specimen is wise.>
and is this 29 gallon tank size good enough for about 6 months-1year or
so??
<This aquarium will be fine for a pair of Angelfish for life.>
please help me i don't know what to do i feel so bad for the little
one....
<I feel your pain! When I started fishkeeping, I bought three Angelfish,
and two of them bullied the third, to the point where the third lost one
eye and never grew to full size. So, I don't recommend making my
mistake, and would suggest you move the remaining fish to another
aquarium.>
thanks so much for taking your time to help,
sincerely,
Alyssa
<Happy to help. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Angelfish is pushing
smaller angel fish PLEASE HELP ME 11/18/09
Should i rehome the smallest one or the biggest bully one? because the
medium sized one doesn't push anyone around? the smallest is my
favorite, so who should i move out? i also read that they can become
buddies later on. so which one should i move, smallest or biggest one?
thanks again. :)
-Alyssa
<Neale is out currently on Mondays and Wednesdays, so I'll jump in here.
The smaller fish needs to be moved or at least separated as Neale
already stated. Now. Bob Fenner>
Re: Angelfish is pushing smaller angel fish PLEASE HELP
ME 11/18/09
i have also read that you shouldn't have only 2 angel fish in an
aquarium, is that true? and what is the max i can have in a 29 gallon
tank, if you recommend getting more?
<Angels are best kept singly, in matched pairs, or in groups of 6+.>
are they compatible with those fish that each the algae off the tank?
<Depends which fish. For a 29 gallon tank, the only species I would
recommend would be Ancistrus sp. ("Bristlenose catfish"). Cheers,
Neale.>
RE: Angelfish is pushing smaller angel fish PLEASE HELP ME
i gave the biggest one away to a store that agreed to take care of him
for me, and the other two seem to get along great; the littlest one
doesn't hide anymore, he seems more content. it seems better from my
observations.
<Cool.>
if they don't last the cycle since i just set it up a week ago, should i
wait the whole month for the cycle to get done before purchasing two new
ones?
<Do not add Angelfish to an immature aquarium. Wait for the tank to
cycle fully using a fishless method, ideally. After the tank is stable,
add some hardy fish, like Peppered Corydoras or Zebra Danios. If all is
well a couple months after that, add Angels.>
or do i buy them immediately after they die (if they die)?
<Do not add Angelfish to an immature aquarium.>
one more question, lots and lots and LOTS of air bubbles are in the tank
all over latched onto the fake plants and things, is that normal?
<Depends; adding an airstone will produce some bubbles, as will using a
spray bar or a venturi. Bubbles themselves aren't a bad thing, but too
many of them can cause problems for fish. So a little bubbling at one
end of the tank is fine, but if the thing is like a Jacuzzi, that's
overkill.>
will it calm down?
<Depends.>
i suppose it's part of the cycle. just checking. thanks so much for your
guys' help. it has informed me a lot. i greatly appreciate it.
<You're welcome.>
-Alyssa
<Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Rainbow Sharks and Tank Stocking... grading into
Pterophyllum stkg. 9/30/09
Thanks, and please tell me if I decided to get rid of a male and female
gold Gourami I have if 8 angels would be too much in my 75 gallon along
with 15 cories.
<You should be fine.>
I guess the cories do not matter much as to the number of angels though.
<Indeed; wouldn't keep fewer than 6 adult Angels. That's the "magic
number" when it comes to keeping the peace -- once they pair off, the
resident pair often become bullies and will harass other Angels in with
them.>
Again, you always leave me feeling positive after you take the time to
help me.
<Happy to help.>
It is good to know there are people around like you who devote their
time to help others improve their aquarium keeping skills.
<Kind of you to say so.>
James
<Good luck, Neale.>
Re: Rainbow Sharks and Tank Stocking... grading into
Pterophyllum stkg. 9/30/09
Thank you Neale, does that mean that I should get rid of 2 angels and
only have 6 to avoid problems?
<Not necessarily. Provided you have 6 or more specimens, Angelfish
school reasonably well; it's groups less than 6 that sometimes end up
with a pair of bullies and a few frightened tankmates!>
Also, is it still OK to have that many angels (6 or 8) even if I keep
the gouramis?
<Sure. A 75-gallon tank is pretty generous. Since domesticated (hybrid)
Angels don't get as large as true Pterophyllum altum or Pterophyllum
scalare, you're essentially housing a group of eight 10 cm/4 inch
Angelfish in a 75 gallon tank, and that leaves plenty of space for a
couple of Gouramis and a school of Corydoras.>
Thanks again,
James
<Cheers, Neale.>
Angel Fish, sel.
4/28/09
Hi All, hope you are having a great day! I wanted to know if there were
certain species/strains of freshwater angelfish that were hardier than
others. I also wanted to know if you knew reputable dealers online.
Thank
you for your help.
James
<Hello James. This is a very interesting question; yes, indeed, some
Angelfish are hardier than others. To start with, any of the wild-caught
species should be considered delicate. Perhaps not quite to the same
degree as wild Discus, but still needing good quality water, preferably
soft with a slightly acidic pH. This largely holds true whether you're
talking about Pterophyllum altum, Pt. scalare, or Pt. leopoldi. Next up
are some of the more inbred varieties of domesticated Angelfish. These
include the new varieties such as the Koi as well as the Black
Angelfish. Much hardier are the older fancy varieties, especially the
Marble Angelfish, which is really quite a tough old bird. Top of the
heap in terms of hardiness is the standard wild-type domesticated
Angelfish. This is the one with red eyes and straight black bands on its
body, much like the wild fish. I don't personally know of any dealers of
Angelfish online, and the vast majority are farmed. Provided you picked
some reasonably well grown specimens (avoid the coin-sized tiddlers) you
can be confident that any Angelfish from a decent aquarium shop should
be okay. I tend to avoid the more mutated
varieties as mentioned above, and by default, recommend the wild-type
and the marbled Angelfish if needs be. If you're ambitious and have
water that isn't too hard and alkaline, genuinely wild Angelfish are a
real treat to keep, adult Altum and "Peruvian Altums" (actually some
kind of Pt. scalare) are spectacular fish. Cheers, Neale.>
Re: Angel Fish 4/28/09
Hi Neale, you mention that the wild-caught species should be considered
delicate, but then go on to say later that the wild-type domesticated
seem to be the hardiest. What is the difference?
<Wild-caught are fish captured in the wild. Wild-type are domesticated
(tank bred) Angels that retain the normal colours of wild Angelfish,
i.e, they're not marbled, gold, black, koi or whatever. Just regular
silver Angels with black vertical bands and red eyes. I'd called them
"plain vanilla" if they were common, but for most aquarium shops sell
the non-wild-type varieties instead.>
Also, after I have decided on the number I want in my tank do I need to
get the all at the same time to avoid aggression or can I space them
out?
<Angelfish are territorial when breeding, but this varies somewhat. Wild
Angelfish usually do best in groups of 5+ specimens, but domesticated
Angelfish can become excessively territorial, even when not breeding,
and in some cases single specimens become outright bullies. More
usually, mated pairs claim territories about 2 feet in diameter around a
central, usually vertical, spawning site. Provided there's enough space
for the other Angels to get out of range, you can keep mated pairs of
Angels alongside other Angels. Putting any spawning sites like upright
bogwood roots along the edge of the aquarium will help by limiting the
size of their territory.
When such things aren't considered, people start with six Angelfish, but
hen end up removing surplus fish because those fish are constantly
chased by the territorial pair.>
Also, is it OK to start out with a larger size or does that cause
aggression?
<Starting off with six immature Angelfish is in fact recommended. Since
sexing is impossible, the only way to get a pair is to rear juveniles
together, and then let them pair off naturally. By "not too small" I
mean fish that are just a few months old, with bodies an inch or so in
length (ignore the fins). Get specimens around 2-3 inches in length and
you will find they travel and settle down much more easily.>
Again, thank you for all you do.
James
<You're most welcome. Cheers, Neale.>
Koi Angel gift... stkg/sel. mostly
3/10/09
Hello Crew,
A friend bought me a koi angle fish because I mentioned that I was thinking
about getting one. I accepted this fish to make it easier and I'm now wondering
if one for my system would be ok. I have a 40 tall, heavily planted, wood etc.,
a few platys, a few chain loaches, and two Otocinclus. Would one angel become
aggressive without another angel to bicker with, could I keep just one? Or would
it be better to go get a few more and see if two pair off and then try to find a
home for the rest? I've done this before with some electric blue JD's and my LFS
doesn't really like taking back older mature fish.
Any help is much appreciated.
Jerry
<Jerry, you can keep a single Angelfish without any problems. Juveniles are
schooling fish, but the adults tend to be territorial. In fact when kept singly
they often become more tame than otherwise, especially if the tank
is peaceful and they have lots of time to "bond" with their human keeper.
Because Angels are impossible to sex, if you got two specimens and they were
both males, you could indeed end up with fighting, though in a 40 gallon tank
you might just get away with each fish having its own territory. Still, I'd not
bother risking it. Getting six juvenile Angels is the usual way forward when
people want pairs, and compared with Jack Dempseys, rehoming surplus Angels
shouldn't really be a problem. Adult Angels are always in demand. By contrast,
the market for adult Jack Dempseys is very small. So if that appeals, check with
your retailer, but
in all likelihood he'll be positive about it. Cheers, Neale.>
FW Angelfish Question, stkg.
1/28/09 Hello, Hope all of you are doing well and not working too
hard. I have a question please. I have been told that when adding freshwater
angels to a tank it is better to get about 6 small ones and let them grow up
together to cut down on aggression. Are there any exceptions to this such as 6
large ones or 2 or 3 large ones in a 75 gallon tank? Thank you. James Hall
<When you add a group of fish together for the first time they establish a
pecking order. When the fish are small they are less likely to damage the other
tankmates during the process. When one fish becomes dominant then it picks on
the other fish. When there is just one other fish then that fish gets beat up.
When you have more than one fish then the aggression gets to be divided amongst
the other fish. Putting three adult angelfish together for the first time may
lead to some fights, but in a 75 gallon tank there should be room for the losers
to get away.-Chuck>
Freshwater angelfish variety, sel.
12/14/08 I recently lost my favorite and most beautiful FW angelfish
because of an extended power outage. I want to replace him but I have never seen
another angelfish of his color variety. He was a gold crowned angelfish. However
his actual scales were metallic in appearance. <Ahh! There have been some
very beautiful "sports"... cultured mutations of this type with FW angels...>
I was told by the LFS that he was a Koi angelfish but he was not tri-colored. He
was white with the standard gold crown but the white part of his body was
stunning in appearance. I have also not seen another fish with this color
variation. Is this variety one you have seen before and could give me the name
for, or perhaps a website that I could purchase one? <Mmm, could be a "Koi"
variety (is a marketing term, but refers to Nishikigoi of the same name... some
of which are of a single, metallic color... Put the term "Koi" in your search
engine, you'll see)...> The metallic sheen almost resembles a Pearlscale
goldfish but more beautiful. Please help my tank is so bare without him.
Thank-you <Mmm, and a comment re "matching" FW angels... they're really all
the same species... sort of like dog "breeds" for domestic canines... and so,
all likely get along or not, and potentially interbreed, irrespective of
appearances. I would ask your local fish stores if they could look into
special ordering you a replacement here... Or write to the larger online
etailers of livestock, like Dr.s Foster & Smith, asking if they stock them.
Barring this, perhaps posting on Aquabid (.com) can help you locate a private
person/breeder. Please do share your experiences re this search. Bob Fenner>
Freshwater angel fish, sel.,
reading... as usual
12/13/08 Hello all, hope things are going well
there for you. I am still in the process of setting up a 75 gallon fw tank. I
know for sure I will have rainbows; and at first I thought of adding gouramis so
to have slow swimmers in addition to the rainbows. But now I am considering
getting angels instead. I know I should get them in a group of at least 6.
Please tell me if there is one species you would recommend over others that
might be hardier and/or more attractive. Thank you. James <... all
cultured angels are the same species, P. scalare... Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangelfishes.htm and the linked files
above... BobF>
New Community Tank Setup, FW stkg.
9/20/07
Hello,
<Good Morning, Terri, Andrea here.>
Great informative site, thanks for all the wise advice!
<Thanks, I agree.>
I am planning to start my first ventures into keeping an aquarium as a hobby and
wanted to make sure I was heading in the right direction. I have done lots of
research <Excellent! Keep up the research and good work.>
on fish compatibility and have so far come up with the following for a 30 or 33
gallon tank. 6 Neon Dwarf rainbowfish, 3 yoyo loaches, 4 angelfish and 3 red
honey Gourami's.<The gouramis, while small, may nip the angels and like a
slightly higher pH, KH than Angelfish. Likewise, the Angels, unless you cull
down to a mated pair, will quickly outgrow a 30-33 gallon tank.> The questions I
have are:
1) I have tried to come up with a suitable number of each species to suit them,
but I am concerned that I might be overcrowding the tank (and I even read that
angelfish and gouramis should be kept more than 3 to reduce aggression.) Are
these numbers ok for my tank?
<I'd say you are pushing it. I'd suggest starting out with the yo yo loaches and
Angels. Get 6 juvenile angelfish and wait for a pair to form. Once one does,
return the remaining four. Then stock accordingly from there. I feel the dwarf
rainbows would be a good addition at that time.>
2) Also I am quite excited to have a heavily planted aquarium. Do you have
suggestions for types of plants that would suit these fish species?
<In this tank, the Angels are more or less the centerpiece fish. Choose wisely,
and choose healthy, nice specimens. Read
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwangelfishes.htm and the linked
articles at the top of the page. These are South American Cichlids. I'd suggest
plants from the Amazon/Pantanal region, where these fish are native. They create
a lovely biotope. Have you done your research on what a heavily planted tank
entails and are prepared with the proper lighting, substrate, pressurized CO2,
and fertilizers? You might look into some planted tank sites online. Try
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com and also the articles on WWM.>
3) I would like to have a fish group that are aware of their outside
surroundings and have interesting behaviour, do you recommend replacing the
gouramis with 2 of either German Blue Rams or Bolivian Rams? Would they be
compatible with this group? <My main concerns with the gouramis is that despite
their small stature, they are nippers, and will go after the angelfish.
Likewise, they tend to prefer solitary life, and will sometimes turn on each
other. This is less common with dwarf honeys, but not unheard of. Also, gouramis
are an Asian fish, and I tend to suggest people stay within the same continent
when choosing stock. The German Blue Rams and Bolivians however are a good
choice for pairing with angels, as they are also peaceful South American
cichlids from the same region. But I feel the breeding behavior of both groups
(Angels v. Rams) would eventually result in conflict. Choose either Angels or
Rams.>
4) Is their a particular order that I should stock my fish after I have cycled
the tank or just add all the fish right away? I read that yoyo's can
be sensitive so wondering how long (if any) I should wait before adding them.
<General rule of thumb is to introduce the most "shy" and "peaceful" fish first.
I encourage you to research the behaviors of your stock selection and go from
there. I'd start with the yo yos.>
<In closing, with Angelfish (a fantastic choice for a 30 tank if you go with
just a pair, also for planted tanks), make the pair your "centerpiece" fish,
then stock one or two small groups of schooling fish in a planted aquarium. Stay
away from tiny fish, however that will fit easily in an angels mouth. Neons
Tetras, for example, are their natural food in the wild. However, the six dwarf
rainbows, and perhaps a small school of other, slightly larger, tetras would
make a stunning display.>
Thank you very much for your time and I look forward to hearing from you guys.
<Most welcome.>
Cheers <Back at ya.>
Terri <Andrea>
Re: FW Angelfish, Stocking plan, planted
tank start up. 7/21/07
Hi Andrea,
<Hi Terri!>
Thanks for responding so quickly! <No problemo.> This website is great and lots
of helpful advice. In regards to your reply about stocking my 30 or 33 gallon
tank, I have a few more questions:
1) You suggested getting 6 baby angelfish and wait for 2 to pair up after a year
or so, and then take the 4 extra out of the tank. I don't have anywhere to put
the 4 extra and the pet store does not take specimens back. Can I just try to
buy 2 directly from the store and see if they get along? I know its hard to sex
juvenile angels, so also assuming I got 2 males, will they display territorial
aggression in a 30 gallon space?
<You can always give it a shot, and keep a close eye on them. You want to try to
get a mated pair, which is why it is suggested to start with a larger number,
and cull down once a pair forms. Also, I'd ask the pet store why they won't take
fish back. That is unusual, except with (Gah!) the large chains. Do you have an
aquarium specialty, local, fish only store anywhere near?>
2) After considering your advice I will not get Gourami's and rams since I guess
my tank would be too small for them to be compatible, but what about 2
Apistogramma fishes? I really would like to get Apisto bitaeniata in particular.
I realize they too like rams are South American cichlids but still wanted to
know what you thought if there might be a difference if I changed the rams for
the Apistos.
<Good choice on the Gourami/ram combo. However, Apistogrammas and Angelfish
aren't going to get along well either. You'd be better going with angels and
gouramis if you must have one of the three (Gourami, ram, or Apisto), but I
encourage you to investigate another, non-cichlid, non-nipper option. Angelfish
are generally slower moving, slightly nervous, and long finned fish. This should
be your consideration when choosing the tank mates.>
3) In addition to the Rainbow neon dwarfs, what about adding platies to the mix?
I would like red fish in the tank to contrast against the blue of the dwarfs and
shape of the angelfish. It doesn't matter to me if the angelfish eat platy spawn
as Im not interested in breeding fish.
<I don't see a problem with platys.>
4) If the platies are not a good mix can you recommend another pretty red fish
that would go will with my setup?
<Platys should be fine. Another good choice would be something like a Serpae or
Von Rio Tetra.>
5) I have been reading a lot that clown loaches and angelfish go well together,
but I don't want to get clowns as they grow too big. Would a different loach
species be better suited compared to the yo yo loach? I am also concerned that
loaches are from India and like gentle currents and angelfish are from S.A and
like still waters, will this be a problem if I put them together?
<The loaches would be just fine. I suggest going with something smaller, such as
a small school of Botia Sidthimunki or a trio of Botia striata.>
Possible revised setup, 30-33 gallons:
6 neon dwarf rainbows <-- Fine.>
2 angelfish <--Fine.>
3 yo-yos <--See above about the loach question.>
2 Apistogramma <--Swap for a pair of dwarf gouramis (preferably honeys) with
close attention, or other non-cichlid fish>
5 platies (or less?) <--Fine, but this would be your maximum limit.>
<You would be FULLY stocked. Go slowly, and keep up your water changes weekly.
Plenty of plants and excellent filtration will be of great help.>
Thanks so much again for your help.
<Sure thing!>
Cheers,
<Yep!>
Terri
Seeking FW Angels - 5/12/2006
Good day from sunny and muggy Florida,
<And to you... from fabulous... well, likely so... when the sun comes up...
Hawai'i>
I am re-entering fishkeeping after a few months off (due to a move) and am
looking to get some angels. I am not very happy with the local selection (in
LFS) so I have been looking at some online fish sales. With shipping generally
in the $30 dollar range, and prices of fish at about $5 per fish, this
proposition isn't a cheap one. I wanted about 8 fish in a 55 gallon tank. How
do you feel about black angels? (I love them)
<Me too>
Also, how do you feel about 2 day shipping (seems to be the time it takes fed
ex express to get me the package on some sites). What is the chance of a DOA?
<Too high to suit me... I'd pay more for assured 24 hour maximum... meet the
shipment, put away promptly...>
No site offers a return on shipping if DOA occurs so in case it does occur, I am
completely out to dry. (Someday I hope to not have money be an issue, but
currently I am still in school and $$ is somewhat of an issue). I would prefer
to get the fish from a local breeder where I can pick them up, but I do not know
of any here in Tampa, FL.
<There are MANY... this is one of the premiere fish-farming areas in the U.S.
for ornamentals... see the FTFFA on the Net... though... most farms don't sell
directly to consumers.>
Thanks for the time and the always on point advice
<I strongly suggest "making a deal" with one of your local fish stores to
special order your angels, piggy-backing with their suppliers for your fish
here. Bob Fenner>
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