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FAQs on Marine Protozoan Parasitic Diseases

Related Articles: Marine Ich: Fighting The War On Two Fronts Cryptocaryoniasis, Parasitic Disease, Quarantine, Quarantine of Marine Fishes,

Related FAQs: Products That Work By Name: Free Copper/Cupric Ion Compounds (e.g. SeaCure), Chelated Coppers (e.g. Copper Power, ), Formalin Containing: (e.g. Quick Cure), About: Hyposalinity & Ich, Treating for Crypt & Sensitive Fishes: By Group: Sharks/Rays, Morays and other Eels, Mandarins/Blennies/Gobies, Wrasses, Angels and Butterflyfishes, Tangs/Rabbitfishes, Puffers & Kin... & Marine Parasitic Disease, Parasitic Marine Tanks, Parasitic Reef Tanks, Marine Velvet Disease, Biological Cleaners, Treating Parasitic Disease, Using Hyposalinity to Treat Parasitic Disease, Infectious Disease,

Marine Oodium : QT/Fallow period... Reservoir hosts...      6/15/17
Hello,
I brought a fish home about 3 months ago that ended up having Oodium <Oodinium>. I misdiagnosed initially as Crypto, realized 4 days in that it was Oodium. By the time I got my QT set up, I had lost 3 of my 6 fish. The
4th fish was heavily affected and went to QT for copper treatment for 17 days. He's been clean and healthy for 6 weeks now. I have 2 other fish, a Mandarin and a 6 Line Wrasses that were completely unaffected. They have remained in my DT the whole time.
<Yikes... have to tell you, these fishes are hosting the parasite though they're subclinical>

Catching the 6 Line would've meant tearing my entire tank apart and I didn't want to do that. Moving forward, I purchased 4 new fish who are all in QT with my existing Angel. One got a couple spots of Ich that were gone
in 12 hours, but I already had started copper in the QT for everyone just to be safe. My question is, how long should I wait before adding the fish to the DT?
<A tough question: Tis a balance choice that only you can make. IF the quarantined fishes are "healthy enough"; they may not "get" the Protozoan... >
Being that the tank isn't truly fallow, I'm not sure how long I should wait.
<Again, a "toss up"... you want to wait as long as you can, but NOT if it is weakening the quarantined animals... else wise, they will succumb>
I couldn't find an answer anywhere. I searched and asked many. Some say 2 months, some say 3. The 6 Line and Mandarin have remained 100% healthy with no signs whatsoever of Oodium.
<It's in there... they're acting as reservoir hosts>

Tank specs for reference : 60 gallons. I just added a sump to replace my canister. I do weekly 10 gallon water changes and run a healthy amount of carbon. I was using Hikari Ich X (3% formaldehyde) for about 2 weeks prior to removing the Angel that went through copper treatment. I don't know if that had any effect on any of the free swimming stages of the Oodium?
Probably not.
<More to this>
Thank you in advance for your help. I'd rather be safe than sorry and wait as long as I need to to add the fish.
Blaire
<I'd like you to read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Re: Marine Oodium : QT/Fallow period      6/16/17

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. I know my situation isn't ideal, but it is what it is. I also know there are no definitive answers. I read through several of the articles in the link you gave me. I had an idea last week about possibly doing a water change on the QT with water from the DT. Kind of a controlled experiment, to see if any Velvet arises in the QT fish. I thought that might be safer than putting everyone directly in the DT in a month or so. What are your thoughts on doing that first?
<I wouldn't do this... better to delay to the last day in the hope that the health of the QT fishes will improve>
Another question I have for you, when I got Velvet a couple months ago, it took a full month for my fish to become infected, and a couple of them made it 2 weeks with the Ich X treatment, 1 of which went into copper. Normally I
hear that fish die within a day or 2 of seeing symptoms. Any thoughts on that?
<Oodinium is usually fatal w/in a few days notice of symptoms. You REALLY can/should invest in a simple microscope (see WWM re), sample and look at the parasite... Easily differentiated. I suspect the fishes have/had
Cryptocaryon, based on what you've stated>
I'm sure it was Velvet that I had and not Ich as the spots were more like dusted sugar with very pale coloring to the fish and very heavy breathing, along with some flashing on the rocks.
<Mmm... again; easily confused symptomatically>
It seems velvet is everywhere right now. I've keeping saltwater tanks for over 10 years and never seen so many issues with Velvet, Ich, and Flukeworms. Thanks again for your help and advice Mr. Fenner! Always appreciated. I spend a lot of time reading through your articles, they are so incredibly helpful!
<Thank you for your kind, encouraging words Blaire. Bob Fenner>
Re: Marine Oodium : QT/Fallow period      6/16/17

One last thing I should add, as it may not have been clear. I have 5 fish in QT right. Only 1 was originally in the tank from the Velvet or Ich outbreak. The other 4 are all new fish that I bought to replace the lost fish.
<...>

So when I mentioned the possibility of a water change on the Qt with water from the DT it was more so to see if there were any life stages left in the DT.
<Rest assured, there are>
That way I could treat immediately rather that trying to catch all the fish again. Also, all the fish in the QT are 100% healthy as of now. Everyone is eating, putting, stress free, and very social. No signs of illness or stress at all. I keep a very close eye on the tank. It's established with plenty of ceramics, HOB, powerhead, and I used plenty of Dr. Tim's. I also keep an ammonia alarm badge on there as well. SO keeping them healthy in the QT isn't an issue. I have a second tank as well if need be.
<I might well place all five fishes there>
I'm just trying to very careful about how I add the fish to the DT. I have no problem waiting longer. I'd absolutely rather be safe than sorry. Thank you again Mr. Fenner. I so much appreciate all your help and advice. It can be a lot of work helping so many I'm sure. But I have the utmost appreciation for your help.
<You're welcome; and I may be over-emphasizing the likelihood of "much" in the way of a potent infestation residing in your DT... Just the same; there is a high likelihood it still bears the Protozoan... just, as time goes by, at increasingly smaller population and virulence. You might find it comforting and discomforting to read, realize that most captive systems do have latent populations of parasitic diseases... "Only waiting" for weakened hosts (principally through poor environmental conditions, secondarily via inadequate nutrition) to manifest themselves on fishes. Bob Fenner> 

Help! 2 New sick mandarins      9/20/15
Sorry about the file size! I linked to YouTube instead..full screen will make it easier to see..
Dear WWM crew,
First of all, thank you for building such an incredible site with such a wealth of reliable information! I would be lost without you! I believe the new pair of mandarin dragonets I just got in 2 days ago (in QT) are infected with Costia (Ichthyobodo) and I can't seem to get rid of it!
<What have you tried thus far?>
I looked at the shipping bag water under a microscope and found lots of  them.
I attached a video I took of them if you don't mind confirming that this is in fact Ichthyobodo.
<From the shape, movement; likely so: Here's a better vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGX8oR9NqFs>
Unfortunately, I did not dip the mandarins before putting them in QT- I was nervous about the high ammonia levels of the shipping water (0.50 ppm)
<At times MUCH higher>
and wanted to transfer them quickly.
<For browsers, see my Acclimation protocols on WWM. Once ammonia is diluted out of shipping water and fish/es, not a big deal to dip if they're otherwise in health>
After I discovered the parasites a couple hours later, I took them out of QT to give them both a dilute formalin/Methylene blue dip for 30 minutes and they both seemed like happy fish the whole time. The next day I fed them baby brine shrimp and they both ate. I repeated the dip, but took them out after 20 minutes because they appeared stressed like they were looking for a way out of the dip container.
<Typical behavior; had it been freshwater, formalin containing or seawater>
Today I fed them baby brine again and decided to leave them alone, however now the female looks extra slimy and is breathing heavy.
<Mandarins are naturally very slimy>
I took a look at the tank water under the microscope and the parasites are in the tank too. I don't think another dip would help at this point. Should I treat the whole tank now??
<Yes I would>
What course of action do you think I should take???
<A quinine compound... see WWM Re. Bob Fenner>
parameters look fine- 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, pH 8.2, temp 78F. I greatly appreciate your help!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKa1gQU5mkE
-Lindsey

Marine velvet       8/14/15
Hi,
<Yitz>
Can you please look at the attached pictures and see if this is velvet?
<.... humans can't "see" Protozoans... But this does NOT look like Amyloodinium symptomatically to me... likely Crypt. SEE, as in READ on WWM re diagnosing.... requires sampling, a 'scope....>
He had ich last week but got better. He still eats but swims on the bottom and looks listless....no other fish seem to have any of these issues
<.... some fishes, Zebrasoma....>
.....Thanks
<.... READ my young friend. We can't help you unless you help yourself. Bob Fenner>


Re: Marine velvet       8/14/15
Thank you Bob. All I've been doing is reading.
<Heeeeee!>
Alot <no such word> of websites talk about a gold powder with velvet and it looks like it has that. I have not seen a
white spot on him in over a week. Most of my fish had ich but with good diet they fought it off. Have been healthy for quite some time.
<.... T'were it velvet, all these fishes would be dead. BobF>
Re: Marine velvet       8/14/15

Thanks a lot :) I guess I will monitor for now....
<I'd be.... reading.... on WWM (and other reliable ref.s). B>

Hippo Tang w/ Ick or Brook?      5/4/14
Hi Bob,
I have been in this hobby for 8 years now, I have read and read and I always go back and re-read your site. It is a GREAT source of helpful information. Thank you. I have a 75 gallon set up with fish and coral, and
a 10 gallon hospital tank for quarantine. (the best thing I ever did). I bought a Hippo Tang and did a freshwater dip + a formalin dip and put them in the quarantine tank. After a few days the Hippo showed some white spots
on his top fin and I decided to lower the salinity. I know you say that this treatment doesn't always work, but I have always done it and it had worked wonderfully until now.
<Until>
I am very detailed and followed the hyposalinity treatment faithfully for 8 weeks but the Hippo still kept 1 white spot on his side. So I figured this is why you don't like the hyposalinity. So I went back to your site and read for other treatments. I raised the salinity gradually and decided to use Cupramine. While I was in the process of raising the spg, he got more and more white spots so I started the Cupramine. I have used it for 2 weeks now and have not seen any improvement, rather I think it's getting a little worse.
<... Mmm, the spotting... may not be Crypt... Do you have a microscope? I'd be sampling, examining>

The white spots aren't like regular Ich, more like spots with whitish areas. Your site says the copper is the best cure for Ich, so I went back to read more. I found that sometimes Ich is confused with Brooklynella.
<Ah yes>
This is my question, should I continue with the Cupramine?
<I would not... IF copper isn't working w/in a week... it likely won't.
Better to try/use quinine compounds IF protozoan>
Or should I get rid of the copper and use Quick cure to treat the fish for Brooklynella?
<See above; WWM>
Thank you very much for your help.
Sincerely, Erika
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Sick Purple Tang      2/12/14
Hello,
<Jackie>
I have spent multiple days searching the web looking for some image that would answer my question, however, I have been unable to diagnose my fish with any degree of certainty.
<Looks like this Xanthurum has Cryptocaryon or Brooklynellosis; you don't see the SOP on WWM for sampling, looking under a 'scope to identify such Protozoans?>

 I have had this purple tang, Kalinda, for about four months now. She lives in a 150 gallon FOWLR system and she has been a great fish, very lively, great eater, and kind to her tank mates. A few weeks ago I decided to rearrange the rocks in the tank and take out some faux sea grass that the more timid fish liked, but that I could no longer handle looking at with all of the growth on it. After doing this, I noticed that my tang had a few white spots on her. I figured it was Ich, so I let her be and decided not to stress her out and see if she could fight it off (I will add that before I added her to this tank, my regal tang whom I had had for 8 years died in the system. The regal became ill, had white on his body, refused to eat, pretty much hung out at the bottom of the tank, and did show some signs of labored breathing.
<All classical symptoms>
Even with fresh water dips and copper,
<... have you searched, read on WWM re the use of Quinine?>

 I could not get this poor regal to recover. I figured that this might be caused by his age, but, after the outbreak I just went through, I am questioning that). After a few days, the white spots on my purple did not go away, the coverage on her didn't really look like Ich, and she stopped eating. At this point, I pulled her from the system, gave her a fresh water dip, and placed her in a hospital tank with Cupramine. I sat up with her overnight (may sound weird, but I really like my fish) and she did not show any signs of improvement and her berating became very labored. I did not think she was going to make it to morning and as I sat up all night, I continued researching and considered that she might have velvet or Brooklynella. However, looking at her and looking at the images online, I couldn't tell. She did make it through the night, but spent the night dipping to the bottom and hovering at the top for air and she seemed to be getting worse. I debated on whether or not to continue copper (for Ich or velvet) or switch to Quick Cure in case it was Brooklynella. Because my regal did not recover with copper and because my purple seemed to be getting worse, I set up a tank with Quick Cure and Stress Coat and transferred her. By the next day, she had most of her color back and her breathing was improved but she refused to eat. By the second day, she was breathing normally and she went to town on seaweed and her frozen food! It has now been five days since the crisis and she has all of her color back, her fins are healing, and she is swimming all over and eating like crazy.
So now my questions: 1) Based on the attached images, what do you think attacked her? 2) The Quick Cure said to treat the fish for three days.
<Either this or dips/baths in just the Formalin component>

I did this and I am now running carbon and Purigen through her filter. I am also doing daily water changes and have lowered the salinity in her hospital tank. Do you think I should put her through another treatment of Quick Cure at the two week mark (or four week mark - I am thinking about the life cycle of the parasite). 3) Should I treat her with any antibiotics (her tail fin did become frayed on the back edge)?
<Just the handling, copper and formalin exposure... I would not add to the med.s>
Finally, I am not sure what introduced this problem into the tank. I did place three small rocks in the refugium before the regal became ill. These were dry rocks, originally from the ocean, they sat out in the sun for some time and then I soaked them in fresh water. I also added an Allardi clown to my tank at some point.
<A ready source of/for the Brook>

I don't remember if the clown came before or after my Regal became ill but he had been in quarantine for over a month and I didn't see any signs of illness. In any case, I removed all fish from the 150 and I now have them in quarantine tanks (there are a lot of tanks in one room right now). I plan on allowing the tank to go fallow for 2 months - is this a good plan?
Is 6 weeks enough? I don't want to stress the fish out for any longer than I have to, but whatever this killer is needs to die.
Thank you in advance for your help!
Jackie Gill
180 Bow Front Reef (SPS, LPS, Softies); 4 AI Hydra LED; 2 Vortech MP40; Reef Octopus POV DC2 (downright sexy!); 36" Trigger Ruby Sump/Refugium; Apex Standard Control System. // 150 FOWLR, 2 Kessil Sky Blue LED, 3 Tunze Nanostreams, 36" Trigger Crystal Sump/Refugium; Apex Light Control System.
<... As the combo. product WITH Formalin seemed to remove the symptoms, I would read re: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brookyescuref.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Likely Marine Velvet infection in display tank where the fish appear immune. Impt. Questions        11/27/13
I appreciate the vast knowledge of the site and have used it quite a bit to try to understand the hobby, but I haven't been able to track a specific answer to the question I have. Basically, I had two fish die, which raised alarms, and my LFS and I couldn't pinpoint cause. My water parameters have been consistently normative. I did not quarantine (tragic flaw), because my LFS does quarantine, but I purchased a fish from a different store, and I believe that fish was the fish that introduced Velvet into my display tank because it was the first to die. The second (an already introduced Toby puffer) followed shortly thereafter.
<IF Amyloodinium, likely all fishes would die... and show symptoms>
The tank is 90g FOWLR with a valentini, dwarf lionfish, Foxface, dwarf angelfish, goby, and a rainbow wrasse.  The two that died were a saddle puffer and a flame angel (which I replaced with the current one). The deaths occurred over a month ago.
Because none of the other fish appeared affected at the time (nor have they shown symptoms at two a half months), I didn't suspect Velvet,
<Ahh!>
 but I had a 30g freshwater that I converted to saltwater by taking LR and saltwater from the other tank, and I introduced two clown Perculas to it.
They looked healthy for a couple of weeks. One day, they were fine. Both were eating and were fine. The next day, one was dead and the other was swimming in the flow and had a white velvety hue. I pulled it out, gave it a freshwater dip, but it died before I could get it copper treatment.
Long story longer, I Googled "Velvet," and the image of the clown popped up. It was an exact image of what my fish looked like.
<Mmm; could be other Protozoans>
I'm going to let the thirty gallon lie fallow, but the 90g, from which the infestation likely occurred, I don't want to molest. The fish in the 90g appear well.  My question is, will the Velvet die off if the fish in the tank aren't affected, or will it continue to live? Also, will I be able to introduce new fish to that one, or will I have to be wary of an outbreak?
<There are folks; plain hobbyists to academics, who've stated that some parasitic diseases can/do induce immunity; and I do believe this is so, as well as the possibility of such infestations "laying dormant" or existing in sub-clinical states in captive systems... "waiting" for weakened stock, conditions to "become" hyperinfective... How to avoid troubles? The assiduous use of quarantine/isolation ("hardening") of new specimens... even slow introduction to the extant system by way of adding some water from it to the isolation system after the new specimen/s is/are stable.
This sort of topic is touched on in the "Infected States" FAQs files that are linked here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittkfaq2.htm and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/reefparfaq2.htm
and the linked files in series>
Thank you for your time.
<And you for yours. Bob Fenner>

Fallow Tank question... re: inverts...     7/25/12
Hi Gang,
<Hello Chuck>
I'm living through a marine velvet episode, thanks to making the most basic-of-all-mistakes (failure to quarantine).
<Ahh. An ounce of prevention...>
 Survivors are being moved to hospital tanks for treatment. My question is this: I have two inverts which can't tolerate the medication/s... a skunk cleaner shrimp... and a green brittle star. My question is this: can they stay in my reef during the 'fallow' period...
<Yes but don't forget to spot feed.>
 or are they able to 'host' the velvet (if indeed it is Amyloodinium).
<No.>
 I'd like to leave them in there... but don't want to risk reinfecting the fish AFTER my fallow period.
<As long as the fallow period is long enough, you will be good.>
 I've looked through the forums... saw that initial infection can come into a tank with these creatures (or live rock... or just about anything else that's 'wet')... but figured it was probably just a hitchhiker, rather than an active parasite in these cases. Can you let me know your thoughts on this?
<Amyloodinium can be introduced to the tank in a variety of ways but it needs a fish to survive long term.>
 Thanks...
<Quite welcome>
Chuck-the-ten-year-reefer-who-decided-to-act-like-an-idiot
<Jordan>

Hydroxychloroquine <report on use in stead of CP)... & Supposed Protozoan infestation appearance w/ various fish hosts     6/17/12
Good morning!
It has been about 4+ years since I had to treat any fish for parasites, so I was fascinated to find the references for the use of Chloroquine Phosphate now.  Maybe I missed it, but I don't remember seeing this at all a few years ago.
<A relatively new/er treatment>
 In my Hospital Tanks, I am treating a parasite that I believe NOT to be Ich and possibly not Velvet either. I could be wrong about this. It was introduced by small Yellow Clown Gobies, which did not survive.  I do QT all new arrivals, but had read recommendations for a short QT of these fish, due to poor survival rates in QT.  Unfortunately, the short QT didn't work out for me.   I also lost a Gold Bar Maroon Clown.  Once truly infested, this parasite moved quite rapidly, but did not have the typical appearance of Velvet or Ich (to me).
<Look up "Microscope" use on WWM... I have an olde light transmission type AND a QX (really neat and inexpensive) one w/in reach of me here>
  I might have thought the Maroon Clown had Ich, except that the Clown Gobies really looked so different.  Also, I do think the rapid progression was not consistent with Ich, and the spots are quite large. 
<The spots are not the parasite/s... but reaction sites... same as diseases of humans and other animals, plants... quite differing appearance/symptomology wise>
Technically, the Clown Gobies had one minor skin change for 2 days with no other symptoms, then nothing for 2 weeks.  During those two weeks, they ate well and seemed fine.  No itching, scratching, flashing, twitching, breathing funny.... nothing.  Then literally overnight they were covered with spots, and they died within 48 hours (despite/because of? copper).
<Maybe>
  The Maroon Clown had a similar pattern.  Minor skin change for 2 days, then nothing, then rapid progression.  I am including a picture of my second GB Maroon Clown, in hyposalinity before copper.
<Mmm, does "look" like Crypt>
 Thankfully, he has now recovered.   I did try to look at scrapings of the deceased clown under my microscope at work, but the magnification was only 100X, and it was difficult to see.
<Ahh; need a few hundred magnification>
 Maybe I saw some tiny oval-ish parasites, but I couldn't really tell. 
Soon, I will invest in/find a better microscope to use at home.  
>Ah good... the QX or similar model...<
I did see a picture of a Yellow Clown Goby with spots similar to mine (http://fishfantasy.blogspot.com/) - the spots on that fish were attributed to velvet.  I think these spots are much larger than what I would expect from velvet,
<Agreed... and the fish didn't die almost immediately...>
 but I do not have enough experience looking at sick fish to really feel like I am a good diagnostician yet. Perhaps you could lend your opinion? 
Many chat boards call everything "Ich".   I've been running SW tanks for 10 years, but I haven't treated/seen enough sickness to feel confidently knowledgeable.
<I've seen a good deal, written and given talks... including the last two years of NEU's Fish Health Conferences>
  Because of it's potential rapid action, and already losing fish, while waiting for the medication to come I tried multiple different treatments. 
Hyposalinity, I believe, has been ineffective.
<Usually is>
  Sterilizing tanks and transferring between tanks was not effective.  I only tried one formalin dip (on the already very sick and now deceased GB Maroon Clown) as a desperate measure (unsuccessfully).  I do think that copper was helpful, but I really don't like using copper.
<Too narrow efficacy for many cases, circumstances>
 I also apparently did not have the correct copper test for the Cupramine I was using, so I didn't feel comfortable maintaining that treatment - but I had to do something to avoid losing my fish.  I was able to use a couple of doses as a temporary "fix" and the fish clearly improved.   As soon as the level dropped slightly from a small water change, I saw symptoms returning.
 I did order a different copper test online, but was stuck waiting for its arrival.  At any rate, after researching current treatments, I ordered Hydroxychloroquine Phosphate through my Medical Office because the price was a LOT less expensive ($15 for a bottle of 100 tablets, 250mg each) than Chloroquine Phosphate.  I received this a couple of days ago and began to treat my fish.  I am also still (of course) slowly raising the Hospital Tanks out of hyposalinity.  It seems as if the Hydroxychloroquine is doing its job.  The fish look great.    As far as I can tell, in people the dosing is similar between the two medications, with Hydroxychloroquine requiring possibly 80% of the Chloroquine dosing.  I researched a number of articles involving human use, and I could see no reason to avoid the Hydroxychloroquine.
<Me neither>

 In some instances, it was suggested that this version was somewhat less toxic to the eyes.  It is, at times, used in people long-term to treat Rheumatoid Arthritis, and it seems like the Retinal Toxicity is likely an effect from long-term use. Of course, this information cannot be directly transferred to fish, but it is at least a place to start.   It seems like it is used interchangeably with Chloroquine Phosphate for the treatment of malaria, in areas of the world that are not known to be resistant to this drug.  I am writing to ask you if you are aware of any reason that I should not be using this as an alternative to CP?
<I am not aware of such contraindication>
 And also to mention that it might be a less expensive alternative that others could consider as well.
Blessings -
Lynn M
<Thank you for this report Lynn. Bob Fenner>

Requesting Advice - Treatment for Possible Velvet or Crypt New Coral Beauty    6/17/12
Hello WWM Crew,
 <Scott>
I wonder if I can ask your advise on a course of treatment for a newly purchased (still in quarantine) Coral Beauty for my SPS system.
 <Sure>
About three weeks ago I purchased this "almost perfect" fish. He came from a highly reputable LFS specializing in reef systems. The person at the store told me he came from someone who had to break down his system. From inspection of the fish he looked vivid, plump, energetic and curious. Very well acclimated and no signs of disease whatsoever.
Following my usual protocol, I introduced the Angelfish into a ten gallon quarantine tank
<Mmm, a bit too small>
 with water from my SPS (established for 5+ years). Because he was already acclimated into an aquarium environment, I did provide the "luxury" of adding some live rock and some Chaeto from my display for what was intended to be a 30 day quarantine. The Centropyge did fine from the start, eating almost right away.
 <So far, so good>
About five days ago, in the morning I noticed what appeared to be very tiny specks of white spots on the "face". Very tiny, approximately one third the size of salt grains, roughly a dozen or so spots. I immediately thought Crypt, but noticed no telltale spots on the Pectoral or Caudal fins. In any event I thought action was needed and proceeded to do a 100% water change using display water, a complete cleaning of the QT and I removed all the LR and replaced with plastic pipe for some hiding places.
No telltale signs until this morning. Today I found similar specs, roughly the same amount and a bit farther down each side. Still nothing on any fins. Unfortunately these spots appear too small to come out on a photograph. The CB is still active and alert, eating well as of last night.
I would like to pursue treatment right away, but I am still not sure if this is Crypt, or possibly Velvet. (I have never seen Velvet "up close and personal" so I can't be sure).
<Microscopic examination of body slime mucus...>
Can you offer any advice as to what I might be dealing with?
 <... could be a protozoan, could be air bubbles or other, might be simply accrued mucus spots from stress... other possibilities>
Without not knowing for sure at the moment, my immediate plan for treatment is to lower the salinity (not considering hyposalinity yet - but believe it or not did perform successfully on a Flame Angel once - very tricky to maintain proper biological balance) and raising the water temp to about 82F. I will also "re-install" an old UV treatment lamp (with new bulb) and performing daily 100% water changes.
 <Ok>
I suspect the above will be a good start but likely not enough to fully eradicate whatever I have. Should I consider some type of dip as well?
<Not if just returning the fish to the possibly infested system, no>
 My concern here is that it is my understanding that Centropyge are rather sensitive to chemical treatment.
 <Yes... however IF you deem/find that this is Crypt or other such Ciliate, I'd give a quick read on WWM re Quinine compounds: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/QuinSciUseF.htm
and the linked files above>
Again, any advice you can offer would be highly appreciated.
 <Mmm, and here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/corlbeaudisfaq.htm
Thanks in advance for your reply.
 Scott
<Thank you for your query. Bob Fenner>
Fw: Requesting Advice - Treatment for Possible Velvet or Crypt New Coral Beauty    6/17/12

Hello WWM Crew,
 <Scott>
Further to my email yesterday (below) I have a few pieces of additional information.
 First, in a stroke of luck this morning, the Coral Beauty spent about five minutes in direct morning sunlight. I was able to take the attached photo, which shows the spots in question with clarity. Note these spots appear mainly on the "face" of the fish.
 <Yes; does "look" like Crypt>
Additionally, I note no scratching, flashing, or labored breathing which strikes me as odd given the indications on the face.
 <Mmm, mysterious>
I'm still not certain what I am dealing with but this appears to be either Crypt or Velvet.
 <Me neither; still>
Yesterday I did a 100% water change from my SPS display, lowered the salinity from 35 to 33 ppt, and raised the water temperature to about 82 F. I also installed a small UV sterilizer with a new (8 watt) bulb.
 <Ok>
I don't think this will be sufficient and that some type treatment (dip or in QT) is probably need to save this beautiful fish. My concern is that this species is very sensitive to copper and other medications (Formalin) and that this is my one best shot to get this right. Would you kindly advise your opinion as to which course of treatment might be best?
 <You have a few choices. As this is such an early, likely "single stage" infestation (if biological), I am more inclined to try dips/baths and moving the fish to another non-infested setting>
Thanks again for your assistance and the invaluable web resource.
 Scott
<Welcome. BobF>

Oodinium? Desperate in Massachusetts!     5/29/12
Hi Crew!
Hopefully you can help with a problem that I'm dealing with. Here's a quick background: 155 gallon tank with sump total actual water equals 140 gallons. Salinity 1.025, Ca - 400, dKH 8 - 9, Mg = 1400, pH 8.1 - 8.2. No detectable nitrogen compounds. Temp normally 78 - 79, but the recent warming trend has been causing swings from 80 -82. (A chiller will be installed this week). Tank has been set-up for 10 months now.
About 4 months ago I added a powder blue tang, without first quarantining.
<Ooh>
 A week later most fish are covered in Ich. (Lesson learned...). QT for all fish: PB tang, yellow tang, 2 cardinals, banner-fish, 2 pearly jaws, a clown and a flame angel. All in a 35 gallon tank. Copper at 0.5 ppm for two weeks followed by 0.25 for an additional two weeks, then 5 weeks normal seawater.
I lost the 2 jaws and the angel. The other fish responded well to treatment and showed no ill signs after the first week.
So after nine weeks of letting the tank go fallow, the fish were returned to the display tank. Lost the yellow tang within two days, (stress from the move?)
<Maybe>
 all other adapted well. Finally we get to my current issue. Within a week of returning the fish to the powder blue developed small bumps (think goose-bumps) only on the blue portion of its body. No detectable white spots. They are so fine they don't show up in photos. I think I see them more from the shadow they cast and are washed out in pictures.
Netting would require removing rock to chase down, so I keep the QT ready and watched all fish closely. Some days the bumps almost disappear, some days he's covered with them. Breathing is normal, no scratching or flashing, eating well, appears to be in perfect health, except for the bumps. All other fish are normal.
Five weeks pass and I convince myself this is benign,
<Probably best>
 so the replacement flame angel that has been in the QT tank is introduced to the display. (bad move). The flame was held for two week in copper at 0.25 and an additional 3 weeks without showing any issue.
Two days after being in the display it is bumpy like the tang. The next day, very fine with spots are detectable, possibly seen because of the darker colors.  Now he is hiding and I can't see him long enough to inspect or try to photograph. Still all other fish seem fine.
I am 98% certain this is not Ich. This could be Oodinium, but, from all I have read, that should have killed the tang (and most likely everything else) long before now.
<I don't think this is pathogenic... most likely just a reaction to the copper exposure>
I don't know what to treat for, never mind how to treat. I have access to two cheap, used 55 gallon tanks and am seriously contemplating putting the fish in one for whatever treatment, coral in the other, bleaching the DT and starting from scratch. Am I over-reacting?
<Perhaps>
This is a hobby of patience. I'm 52 and still learning the meaning of that word.
<Am sixty and further still>
Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance,
Paul
<I'd just be patient here... IF still (overly) concerned, use formalin in the freshwater dip/bath enroute to the main display. Bob Fenner>

Fish with Specs on the,    2/8/12
Hello Again,<Hello>
I have another question on my 150 gallon FOWLR tank. Two nights ago I noticed two specks on the side of the Coral Beauty. I do not think they were there the day before.<Nice observation> I have been pretty good at looking at all the fish daily these days. The speck looks like a grain of sand and very white. Last night there was only one speck on the side (looks
like the same spot as last night) and now one above the eye. The Copperband also has HLLE that I am trying to fix too (I think it has gotten better in the last few weeks, or at least not worse).<A fish with HLLE should be the first to show signs of ich.> Last night I also noticed one speck on the Niger Trigger (above the eye and 1/2" back) that was not there the night
before. The Niger (and sometimes the wrasse and puffer) are constantly throwing sand around.<Interesting, may have found the cause.>I am hoping these three specks (two on Copperband and one on the Niger) are indeed just sand.<Quite possible> If it is ich, would it be worse than just a couple of specks.<Most likely.> I have read through the FAQs. I know there is the
life cycle and the cysts come and go, but I thought if it was ich, it would be more obvious.  But I am still a newbie. All the fish are fat, except the Copperband, but I think that is more because of the struggle to get some food.<May need to be spot fed.> The Copperband does not look thin, just not fat like the others.<Try spot feeding until it is healthy.>
 If it is ich, can I treat the display with Chloroquine phosphate.<No. Chloroquine Phosphate is deadly to invertebrates. There are undoubtedly a large number of invertebrates living in your rock and substrate that would be killed. The invertebrate die-off could have catastrophic results.>  The fish are not small and I doubt I should put them in my 55 gallon QT even if
I could catch them all without removing all the LR.<Large Rubbermaid totes make great hospital tanks...>
Some other notes:
Around 18 months ago I had what I believed was ich and treated with Cupramine.  At the time, my biological was bio-balls and no live rock.  I have since removed all the bio-balls and have 6 pounds of LR in the tank, 20 pounds in the sump, and 4 liters of Seachem Matrix in the sump. My tank currently has:
7" Porcupine Puffer in tank for 1 year 9 months
24" Snowflake Eel in tank for 2 years
6" Red Breasted Wrasse in tank for 10.5 months (6 weeks in QT, treated with Cupramine and Prazipro)
3" Coral Beauty in tank for 5 months (6 weeks in QT, treated with Quinine Sulfate and Prazipro)
6" Banana Wrasse in tank for 3 months (6 weeks in QT, treated with Quinine Sulfate and Prazipro)
4" Niger Trigger in tank for 3 months  (6 weeks in QT, treated with Quinine Sulfate and Prazipro)
At the time I treated with Cupramine, I only had the puffer and eel.<Scaleless fish such as morays and puffers should not be exposed to any copper products.>
If it is ich, I am wondering if I never eradicated it 18 months ago, or if one of my more recent fish had it and the QS treatments did not work.<Both are possible.>
Thanks,<Not a problem, Jordan>

Looks like Ich, but not? 2/18/12
Hi Everyone,
I have a Vlamingi Tang with a strange malady. I would put his age at 7 years, I have had him for 5 in a lightly stocked 180g SPS reef. The reef is 15 years and see little fish turnover. This is actually my first sick fish, not to say I haven't lost a few. The details here are a parasitic white spot infestation, now before you start with Ich, it's been discussed in depth with peers on RC and the conclusion is not Ich.
<... sampling, microscopic examination?>
I've seen hundreds if Ich pics, this parasite is a lot smaller than the visible Ich trophonts, they are about 1/32 and one third the width like tiny rice. He's had it before but never more than 24 hours at a time, he's now had it for a week, is really covered 1st thing in the morning and seems to clear up mostly by the evening. No other symptoms, no welts or lesions, eats, swims, breaths normally and no other fish have this. In a state of panic, I did a freshwater dip. I caught him with a tiny fly hook and in retaliation got a dorsal spine in my thumb, that may get a separate email though. Isopods were mentioned but I'm skeptical.
<Me too... are easily definitive>
All water parameters for my reef are monitored and perfect. Im not convinced that this is harmless though and this is my favorite fish. Thanks in advance for you time and as well for you incredible website, it is invaluable to the hobby.
Leo
<Let's see... If you were nearby, I'd lend you the first of second edition of Ed Noga's "Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment"... for you to peruse the symptomology... there are quite a few conditions and parasites that can show as you describe. Perhaps you can borrow a copy. Really need a look/see microscopically... Have on my long list of writing projects to develop a check list, dichotomous key for such... Bob Fenner>
Re: Looks like Ich, but not? 2/18/12

Thank you Bob, I purchased the book from Amazon, and will start shopping for a digital microscope.
<See WWM re... I have use the Mattel/Intel one more than my olde transmission type...>
I will send you some info if I find something strange and exciting.
Kind Regards,
Leo
<And you, BobF>

How to Break Brooklynella Cycle in a Tank With Several Healthy Fish 2/11/12
I have combed through your site as well as the internet at large about how to treat/cure Brooklynella, but I am still at a loss for my particular issue. I have a 72 gallon reef tank, with perfect water quality (tested often) and a list of healthy fish including a Coral Beauty Angel, Green Bird Wrasse, Cleaner Wrasse and a 6 line Wrasse. My problem is that when I put a properly quarantined fish (4 weeks) into the tank, no matter how healthy it is, within 3 days the fish is dead from Brooklynella.
<How are you sure this is the causative agent?>

If treated and put back into the tank, it just happens again, yet the above listed member remain fine. I have performed large water changes, have a 25 watt UV sterilizer and keep my water pristine, but any addition seems to have the same fate, without fail. I am hoping there is another answer besides removing all of the fish and letting the tank remain fishless for 8 weeks while the parasite dies off. I am thinking about adding another UV unit, in hopes to eradicate the parasite that way,
<Won't>

as my current unit does not seem to be handling it. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ryan
<See WWM re this Protozoan, the use of quinine compounds. Bob Fenner>
Re: How to Break Brooklynella Cycle in a Tank With Several Healthy Fish 2/11/12

From all of the various diagnosis sites I have read, along with the pictures of affected fish,
<... has to be sampled, viewed under a microscope>
I am 99% sure that this is the issue, as they match exactly. It begins with heavy breathing, then mucus on the fish, pale color and then spots on the fins and body. They all also seem to seem hard against the current, seemingly to get more oxygen. From first sign of body changes, to death, is usually only 12-20 hours. Before it hits, the fish are eating and behaving normally.
How can my other fish, in particular a moderately sensitive Angel be thriving in a tank that is a death sentence for any new comers?
<Two words: "Acquired immunity"... many explanatory theories>
I will take a look at the site you sent and see if any clues can be gleaned that way.

<...>
Thanks,
Ryan
<Welcome. B>

Uronema 12/31/11
Thanks for all your useful advice!
I recently had an outbreak what I believe to be Uronema in my tank. Out of six fish I have only one survivor, an Ocellaris Clown, in a hospital tank. He has some pitted lesions as well as some hyperactivity then listlessness as described on the site. I read ph adjusted freshwater baths and formalin dips are useful in treating this. My other question, I have read that this parasite does not need a fish host to survive, is this true?
<Many believe so... I'm not so sure>
My tank is running fallow right now with some hermit crabs, 1 peppermint shrimp, and 2 Emerald Crabs. Am I going toned to completely clean my tank
or will this parasite die out with time?
<I would move all fishes through a freshwater bath (pH adjusted, per what is posted on WWM), and either leave the tank fallow (empty of fish hosts) for several weeks, or bleach it and re-establish nutrient cycling ahead of reintroducing your fish livestock>
Thanks for the help!
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Brooklynella or not? 11/6/11
Hello there,
This is my first time contacting you and I am asking for some simple advice.
<You are a stranger here but once>
I have recently lost 5 fish, Dottyback, chromis, male saddleback, rusty angel and powder blue tang very quickly. I still have a very small valentini, a chromis, and the female saddleback. She stopped feeding for a day and he eyes seemed to gloss over. She started breathing very fast and occasionally flicking herself against the back. Her white stripe at the front began to look as though the black was wry slightly coming through.
This was five days ago and she has got no worse and is feeding well there is no sign of mucus etc. The other two fish are apparently fine and look great and feeding well. My local fish store told me its Brooklynella but I'm not convinced somehow. His suggestion was to treat the whole tank with an nt labs prep
<Who, what company is this?>
for a month and then begin to restock. He also suggested that the best thing to do with then clown was to kill it.
<? No...>
I didn't want to do it. I have an old tropical tank I could uses as a qt tank but just don't know what to do for the best.
Please advise. Many thanks
Alan
<Need more information, photos if you have them... well-resolved. Have you read on WWM re this Protozoan, Crypt? Do so, ASAP. Bob Fenner>
Re: Brooklynella or not? 11/7/11

Thanks so much for getting back to me.
Here is a photo though it is not as clear as I would like it:
<Mmm; this does "look" more like Cryptocaryon to me... and judging from the other fishes you previously listed as afflicted...>
5 days ago I treated the tank with:
http://www.ntlabs.co.uk/products/Anti%252dBacterial-Marine-Treatment.html
<... anti-bacterial? Can be used for treating (Amyl)Oodinium? "Reef safe?". Don't list ingredients... Nah! No sale!>
When this runs it's course (another 5 days) my local shop wants me o then use this for a month though it isn't reef / invert safe
: http://www.ntlabs.co.uk/products/Anti%252dParasite-Treatment.html
<Forget this as well. READ re the use of Quinine compounds, here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm
and the linked files above, AND: http://wetwebmedia.com/QuinMedF2.htm
and the linked files above>
I have read so much from everywhere that I'm totally confused!
<... read for clarity. Facts, history of knowledge... Skip the garbage>
Thanks so much for taking time with me.
I love my tank (it's only a red sea max 130) but it has given me years of pleasure.
Regards
Alan
<And you, Bob Fenner>

White spots that aren't Ich? 8/23/11
Hi Bob,
<Mr. Uy>
Thanks for the help last email on the conspic. The lateral line infection cleared itself up well and its already healing quite nicely.
<Ah good... the lateral area did just appear to be irritated>
The Conspicuous Angel has been in QT for about a month. The salinity is set at 1.009
<Mmm, am not a fan, but have friends that do use such low hyposalinities>
and during its first 2 weeks there, I treated with quinine sulfate to make sure there wouldn't be any Ich. Strange enough, just when the infection of the lateral line cleared up, a couple of days ago, strange white spots which I'm pretty sure isn't Ich because of the prior treatment with quinine and the fact that it is still in hypo. Its also the only resident in that tank and I've been doing regular water changes with salt mix and RO/DI water.
<This IS some sort of Protozoan infestation... could be Cryptocaryon, might be Brooklynella... possibly other species>
Attached above is also a picture of a Scribbled Angelfish that my friend got at the same time and from the same store that the Conspic Angel came from. His unfortunately died 3 weeks ago and it was covered in white spots.
<Yes... very likely a goner at this stage>
It was also in hyposalinity which also lead him to believe it wasn't Ich. Near the end, my friend did FW dips leading him to believe that his Scribbled had flukes but that he was too late in treating it.
<Might have Trematodes in addn.; but the spots on the side here are not them>
Im just worried that it might be the same thing that's on my Conspic right now as well. Right now, my best guess would be that its flukes as well and that the white spots are the necrotic tissue where they buried in?
<Very doubtful>
Im not really sure though so I was hoping you could add some input as to what to do.
<T'were it me; nothing>
Thanks again for all the help and more power to you guys!
Ryan
<And you, BobF>

Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/2/11
Dear Bob and friends,
You folks helped me a few years ago and I need your help again. My fish - nearly all of them - are dealing with a scourge that was probably brought on by the introduction of snails in my 350 gallon saltwater aquarium. The snails were an addition the aquarium service thought would help deal with algae.
My question is in regards to the treatment being taken, led by my aquarium service owner (whom I found through contacts Bob referred to me when I was dealing with flukes). Here's the deal: just about all the fish - my Vlamingi tang, purple tang, red sea angel, Bannerfish, Cuban wrasse, Hawkfish, and probably the 3 damselfish are covered in what looks like a white mold. My two spot hogfish buried itself at the start of this and so I can't observe it. It began with reduced appetite a day or two after intro of the snails (on 5/23). I saw white spots on the faces of the fishes - even flakes of white, like chunks of lint attached to the angel's eyes. The angel was pale. The fish were becoming increasingly listless and not eating. Thinking it was flukes (again), and in consultation with the aquarium service owner, I treated with Prazipro on 5/26 and 5/29.
<Mmm, not flukes/worms... Protozoan>
Seemed to make no difference except the angel wasn't as pale, but remained listless.
The aquarium service owner suggested a big water change, which I did on 5/30 - removing 100 gallons and adding fresh water so the salinity was brought down from 1.019 to 1.014. But this didn't solve the problem from progressing.
<No>
A technician came over to dose the tank with Dylox on Tuesday, 5/31.
<Also not useful here>
The fish haven't improved and have even gotten worse with the white coating moving from their heads to coat their entire bodies like mold. I believe the parasite may be internal
<Why?>
because I can see on my v. tang, the biggest fish in the tank, with what I think is similar to a rash, a reddish pattern under his skin, suggesting to me that his troubles are under the surface. He's very uncomfortable, making darting movements occasionally, to vent his pain, no doubt. It's a horrible situation in that aquarium right now and makes me sick to think I can't solve the problem. The purple tang is now pale and its body has more
<Need to be treated ASAP... I'd use a quinine compound, Chloroquine Phosphate if readily available... Can be ordered via the Net, but the stores or service co. may have in stock. DO call them, NOW>
From what I'm able to ascertain through reading online, the Dylox may not be the correct treatment if my fish have crypt, velvet or Ich.
<... it is not>
It seems copper is the correct treatment for these issues.
<This is the olde, standby treatment, but is quite toxic... and not useful for all types of situations>
I'm attaching a picture of the Vlamingi tang in hopes someone can try to identify it's condition. Please help. I think these fish - that are between 5 and 9 years old - may die! I am losing sleep and even taking time off from my work in order to deal with this crisis.
Can I apply copper in spite of having had applied this treatment of Dylox?
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/QuinSciUseF.htm
and the linked Related FAQs files above>
As I was writing this my Vlamingi died'¦. Sooooo sad.
Thank you in advance for reading this,
Barbara Foster
<This "problem" is external; one cannot tell w/o a skin tissue swipe and microscopic examination, but this looks like both Velvet AND Cryptocaryon on the Tang (though it could be just the latter). You NEED to read, and act immediately to save the rest of your fishes. Bob Fenner>

Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/7/11
Hello again,
As I communicated below, I've been dealing with issues related to an influx of a parasite. I've done lots of reading, but without a definitive diagnosis,
<Requires microscopic examination of at least body slime of the supposed afflicted fishes>
I and the owner of the aquarium service who is working with me on this are stumped. So far I've lost the Vlamingi Tang (as mentioned in the last email), and a Yellow Bar Angel who died a few hours later (they were companions) - on 6/2. I found the carcass of the twin spot hogfish yesterday -
<My friend... this protozoan infestation will eventually kill all your fishes if not treated>
which considering the rate of decay may have died around the same time as the other two, or even earlier. I also lost a damselfish yesterday. Right now my Hawkfish is on the bottom of the aquarium, struggling to stay upright. My Bannerfish, 2 damsels, a Cuban hogfish, a Foxface, a purple tang, and a clownfish are in various states of debilitation.
All of these fish are over 5 years old, well fed, provided regular care, and previously very healthy. I've done so much crying'¦.
<Won't help... and from the types/species of fishes afflicted, and the length of the etiology, can assure you that this is NOT Velvet, and IS almost assuredly Cryptocaryoniasis>
Having a saltwater aquarium was not really a choice: it came with my house. It is 400 gallons and is serviced by a reputable company.
However that company introduced the parasites that are now killing my fish, presumably via snails. The symptoms manifested 2 days after the snails arrived. So I have lost faith in the service, to some extent, but the business is better run than any I have known. The owner has a degree in marine biology, was recommended by someone Bob Fenner recommended, so I'm not dealing with incompetence (as I was prior to this service provider).
<Happens, accidents as well>
Anyway, I want to say a little about how we are dealing with the problem. I say "we" because I can't do this on my own. I rely on others to service my tank, so now that there is a problem, I need them to help me deal with this scourge. Bob recommended treating the tank with Chloroquine phosphate.
<I still do>
Well, the service owner didn't have that, but he did have quinine sulfate. So we did a huge water change - of about 250 gallons - on Saturday. We lowered the salinity to 1.010, and added the quinine sulfate. I have seen some changes in the infected fish. First, they don't seem as irritated and distressed as they did before. The Bannerfish is not swimming into the jets any longer, however its eyes are cloudy.
<This will persist for some few weeks even if/when the parasite is eliminated>
It is seen occasionally swimming in the tank, but only briefly, as is the Cuban hogfish and the Foxface, a little. Otherwise, they are hunkered down trying to do as little as possible. The fishes' skin is darkened, which the service owner told me would happen from the quinine sulfate (it causes the mucous layer to slough off, as I recall he told me).
<This is so>
The Foxface had these dark splotches - like pin pricks and bruises - after the treatment, which have faded quite a lot since yesterday, Sunday, when they seemed to have increased. These may be areas where a parasite attached. He did a little eating yesterday. The clownfish is easier to look at with a magnifying glass. His entire body is still sprinkled with the white dots, with some a little larger than others.
To me, they look like lice, but both my cat's vet and the aquarium service owners have checked slime coat I collected in the aquarium water and used microscopes to examine it and they both said that the dots in the slime coat were hard, like sand. We have presumed this is a crypt infection, but can't be entirely sure.
<... microscope... for the third and last time... Size of the ciliate, two unequal nuclei...>
I've lowered the temperature to 79.5, two degrees down in two days, in hope that it will slow down any reproduction of the parasite and provide a little more oxygen to the fish (who may have impaired respiration through their gills). This is just the most horrible experience. I am emotionally really beaten up by it. We are going to try to get a vet from Long Beach Aquarium to help with diagnosis as a further measure.
I'm truly exhausted from this ordeal - mostly the loss of my dear Vlamingi Tang, who seemed to me to be an old soul in a fish's body.
I know this isn't a question exactly. I just feel I need to update my last email. I saw some photos online of copepods attached to the fins of fish and wondered if THAT could be what we are dealing with.
<... no>
I know that is a long shot and probably wouldn't explain the quick death of my Vlamingi and Angel - the two biggest fish in the tank. Anyway, if you are going to scold me for not doing what you told me, please go for it. I'm just terribly sad and demoralized by all of this. I wish keeping fish wasn't so difficult.
Barbara
<Bob Fenner>
Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/7/11

OK. I'm going to use the Chloroquine phosphate as soon as possible.
I'll do anything to save them. Thank you.
Do you know of any place that stocks Chloroquine phosphate in L.A. where I could go pick it up?
Barbara
<I do not... would do as you, call about and see who might have. BobF>
Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/7/11
Thanks again, Bob -
I'm trying to locate the dosage'¦.
Barbara
<... is posted on WWM>
Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/14/11

Dear Bob, et al -
I now have a HUGE re-infestation of crypt (presumably).
<Uggghh!>
I have spent the whole weekend looking into the tank, apprising my fish. I fed them a little this morning. I saw a small spot on the Foxface and the purple tang. I didn't notice anything but a behavior change in the Bannerfish yesterday evening. It seemed it was trying to shake something off, swimming up near the jets. I attributed it to a more sensitive reaction to the increased salinity because none of the other fish were doing it. However I did see a little flashing from the Cuban Wrasse yesterday. Now, after the death of the Vlamingi and Angel, the Bannerfish is the largest fish in the tank, AND it is the most coated in white - eyes and body - like it was just spray painted - some spots are big, others fine. This is an utterly aggressive parasite and I fear for these fish's lives. Tomorrow, the vet at the Long Beach aquarium offered to do a scraping and give a definitive diagnosis.
<Good>
I hope it won't be too late to matter. What bothers me is that this re-infestation took place so soon after treating with CP and while the salinity was profoundly low. I put the CP in on Saturday and tweaked the salinity yesterday. I double-checked the # of grams I needed for the CP with an aquarist, and I measured it carefully and administered it right. I raised the salinity 0.001 yesterday to 1.011. I doubt such a little tweak increase of salinity could have sparked this'¦. This mystery would be more interesting if I didn't have to witness so much suffering.
I am afraid to raise the salinity again today, which is 24 hours after the last increase. Please advise.
<Likely the CP was "taken up" by materials... in the system>
This is really hard to figure out!!
Thanks for your attention to my challenges!
Barbara
P.S. The clownfish died sometime early this morning. (Yesterday, I set up a quick hospital tank to give it an antibiotic but, sadly, had no luck catching it.)
<Would not have helped. B>

Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/11/11
Hello again. Thanks for all the help. The fish are rather improved, <Yay!>
however I finally received the Chloroquine phosphate and gave the tank a dose (40 mg/gallon) today. There are conflicting emails on the WWM regarding length of treatment. Is it correct to apply only one dose?
<Yes... this IS what I would do>
Is that one dose for 5 or 10 days?
Other emails refer to multiple doses, so please clarify.
<One dose period usually "does it">
Thanks SOOOO much!
Barbara
<Welcome. BobF>
Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/12/11
Bob, et al -
A brief update: one of the damselfishes died within 2 hours of dosing with CP. I suspect the chemistry. It exhibited signs of toxicity - swimming in place, obviously stressed.
<Not atypical>
I felt helpless given the fact
I have only one tank and the CP treatment is an important opportunity for the entire community of fish to recover from Cryptocaryoniasis.
Still, I suspect damselfishes are sensitive to quinine.
<May well be>
Another died shortly after I used the quinine sulfate (June 4, as an emergency treatment in lieu of CP). It too seemed to react as if poisoned by the chemistry. But not all damselfishes were negatively impacted that time'¦. Perhaps the most compromised died???
<This too>
Or my choice to use a combination of hyposalinity and a quinine based treatment?
<Yes>
The other fishes seem to be tolerating the CP: so far, so good.
There is some concern for the clownfish, however, who has a dark, somewhat reddish patch on the outside of one of its gills. It may be the primary struggling fish in the tank at the moment. It is getting thinner. I saw it eat just a little on June 5, and nothing since.
This spot appeared overnight after a treatment of nitrifying bacteria. I wonder if it is an infection from some opportunistic bacteria.
<Poss.>
It looks slightly raised, like an infection. It may have been caused by my attempt to net it (to take the fish to a fish vet who offered to do a scraping and give a definitive diagnosis): the attempt failed, so I am sans diagnosis (though am going forward with observations indicating crypt). Another possibility is that the spot may have been caused by a spike of ammonia. Ammonia went very high suddenly - to 2.0 on June 8.
<VERY toxic>
It was supposedly 0 two days earlier, according to an aquarium tech. The Hawkfish was on the floor of the aquarium struggling to stay alive that day! We did a big water change - about 30%, and used Polyfilters and carbon on 6/8 - but it still lingered around 1.0. The aquarium service's owner came over yesterday, did a 50% water change and poured in a gallon of nitrifying bacteria. The ammonia returned to 0 in about 8 hours. The Hawkfish is doing really well now, better than I've seen it since the start of the invasion. It's been flitting from one perch to another and may be eating a little. Love that guy'¦.
Whew! This is one wild ride! It's consuming all of my discretionary time - I just can't let down my guard for a minute.
Now that the ammonia has been brought under control, allowing me to remove the Polyfilters and carbon, I've proceeded with the CP. I'm banking on this cure.
Fighting so many fires! (Thank you for all of your support to my front line!!!!)
<Welcome>
I wonder if the hyposalinity may be causing problems with the damsels and clown: even so, I don't know what else I can do!!!
Barbara
<Not much at this junction. B>

Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment?
Bob, Thanks again. I know I've taken a lot of your time with reading my anecdotal record. I'm very grateful.
The infection on the clownfish seems larger this morning. I'm attaching a picture. Is there any treatment I can start for this?
An antibiotic?
<Not of use>
Thank you,
Barbara
<Start returning the specific gravity to near natural seawater strength. B>

Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/13/2011
Please, I'm sorry to bother you so much, but I am following your advice. I wonder if you would advise me on how to raise the salinity. I've bought a salt mix that produces 1.022 salt levels when mixed according to directions. Given the 400 gallon tank is currently at 1.010 and the goal is to daily increase it 0.001, would adding a 1/2 gallon at 1.022 be about right to raise it 0.001? I'm lousy at this sort of math!
Barbara
<Not to worry Barbara... I'll assume you've found this on WWM or the Net... best to do slowly, one or two thousandths per day. BobF>
Re: Crypt? Ich? Velvet? Treatment? 6/13/2011
Never mind regarding the last email. I found a salinity calculator online: http://www.saltyzoo.com/SaltyCalcs/SalinityAdjust.php
Answered my question.
Thanks to you for setting my compass'¦.
Barbara
<Ahh, B>

SW parasitic dis. ID 1/9/11
Hi WWM people,
<Andrea, "Woman of the Sea">
I have read over your site several times trying to figure out how to tell the difference between Brooklynellosis and Marine Velvet.
<Easy to do w/ a "scope, skin scraping, exam.>
The reason I ask is because I had 3 fish in my 125 gal cycled aquarium.
Added in this order: maroon clownfish, black and white Bannerfish and then a yellow tang. The first two were doing fine, then when I added the tang the black and white Bannerfish. died. It only took about a day after first seeing the white "film" on him. The Tang then died shortly after. I took the clownfish out and put her in another tank to treat her. I was treating her with copper because I thought it was Marine velvet. I now think it might have been Brooklynellosis.
<Could be both or even something else... The Tang, BF would likely have not succumbed to Brooklynellosis>
But the truth is, I have no idea! Both symptoms sound the same to me. Well she died after 2 weeks in the QT. What I am confused about is, if this was either illness, why did the clownfish live so long?
<Sometimes does... you might have prolonged this fish's life via the copper treatment>
The other two died over night after I saw the first of the symptoms, yet the clown fish lived several weeks longer. Did I treat the clownfish for the wrong illness?
<Can't tell from the material presented>
Symptoms were: white film on their sides, scratching against the rocks and stopped eating. The only symptom the clown fish had was the white film cover on her. Only about a day before she died is when she stopped eating. She always acted very normal up until then.
I have learned my lesson the hard way about QT. I now have a 29 and a smaller 5 gal out and ready for any new fish I will get in the future. I am letting my tank set fallow for a month. Is this long enough, I can go longer as I am in no hurry.
<The longer the better... raising temp. will help. Please read here re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/fallowtkfaqs.htm
I want to make sure this is out of the tank before adding any new fish.
<Understood>
Thank you,
Andrea
<Welcome! Bob Fenner>

Sick fish, Cryptocaryon irritans 10/31/10
Hi Crew,
<Hello>
Thanks for the wonderful service you all provide. I have been having a problem with my fish the last 6-7 weeks. I introduced 2 angels about 3 months ago, an emp and queen, the queen did not make it, (not eating) but the emperor seemed fine.
<Hope this is a huge tank.>
After a month since I had the emp, it has been bad at scratching, tail twitching, cloudy eyes, blotches etc (I thought flukes).
<From the pics it looks like Cryptocaryon irritans, aka Ich to me. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm >
About 4 weeks ago, I did some mod.s to my tank, I took the dsb out, put in a new improved sump. I had to empty the whole DT including the substrate (fine play sand). When I emptied the tank, all the LR and sand went into plastic drums with aerators and pumps, it only took about 3 hours. I monitored the tank, I ran it on Seachem stability for the first 10 days, and all is fine water quality wise. I did keep an eye on the substrate to monitor for any sulphur build up from turning the substrate sand around (the sand is very active and is over 18 months old). I have had no problems with my water that I know of, ammonia is 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 10-20, PH 8.4, salinity is 1.025.
<Ok>
About a month ago, my Clarkii clown started showing the same symptoms as the emperor, tail twitching, rubbing, white spot, cloudy eyes, and both fish sit in front of one of the pumps, almost as if the flow is cooling their skin.
<More likely poor gill functionality due to the parasitic infection.>
This is when I really noticed it. The fish have all been eating. I then treated for flukes with Prazi pro, the fish did shudder during treatment, but then after 5 days there was still no improvement, so I re-dosed.
<See here for more treatment options. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php .>
This is when the other fish actually got worse, especially with white spot, during the treatment, so I switched the skimmer on, did a 100% water change over a week, and ran the carbon media also.
<These treatments all need to be administered in a hospital tank where proper dosing can be administered.>
Could the shudder during the Prazi treatment be the Prazipro burning the infection inside the gills (sort of like alcohol burns an open wound). But it seemed that the Prazi was not working, and so I thought it must be something else from flukes.
<Does not look like flukes to me.>
The clown died this morning (Pics are attached), I saw the clown in the dying stages, so I caught the clown, put it down, and then placed the body immediately in fresh water to look for parasites, of which I don't think I saw any. I then also lost a yellow tail damsel the same morning (it had also not been well for at least 2 weeks). And the 3 Ocellaris clowns are again showing signs again, of like a dusty dry w/s (they showed this during the Prazi and I think it improved).
<With all these clowns and large angels I do hope it is a huge tank.>
Or could it be brook or velvet.
<These would have already killed all the fish, are much more deadly than Cryptocaryon irritans .>
I am thinking that it is not brook/velvet because surely it would wipe the tank out in a few days.
<Agreed, more like Cryptocaryon irritans.>
The maroon clown seems fine, of all the fish in the tank.
<How many clowns do you have in this tank?>
On the infected fish, the blotchiness gets far worse when just before the lights go off, and when they come on, after 2 hours of the lights on, they seem fine. Could this be a parasite infection caused by stress from moving the fish to a holding tank while I worked on the main tank, or could this be like brook or velvet, could it just be a bad case of w/s.
<Not caused by the tank changes, just allowed to get a stronger hold with the added stress. If Cryptocaryon irritans is not in the tank it cannot infect a fish regardless of how stressed it is.>
The yellow tang does seem fine, maybe a bit one or two spots of w/s in the evening (I would of thought the tang would be ten times worse for w/s than the clowns).
<Usually but not always, the clowns were already stressed from having all the other clowns around I would be, making them more susceptible to infestation.>
I also have a purple fire fish that shows no signs of problems, a Anthias that has one or two white spots. The wrasse seem fine, except the bipartitus that is swimming against the glass, which it never did before.
<All are likely infected just not symptomatic.>
Is this just a case of white spot, or an infection that is stressing the fish, either bacterial/fungal, why would the clowns show more Whitespot than the other fish, or is this worse (brook/velvet).
<I would be Cryptocaryon irritans.>
Please can you offer me any advice, as this has been going on for a while now, and even my wife said that it is bringing me right down.
<Treat all fish outside the tank, allowing it to go fallow 6 to 8 weeks.>
I am adding antibiotics to the food, what I got from the vet, Baytril and I am adding vitamin B complex to the food (I am in South Africa).
<Won't help here, copper, a quinine compound, hyposalinity are a few of your options, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.>
I also add about 4 drops of garlic. I let it soak and then feed.
<Worthless, perhaps harmful to fish's livers as a few studies seem to suggest.>
The fish do seem to still eat well, I can tell they don't like the added meds as some will spit the food out and then take another morsel which they prefer.
<Keep them well fed.>
In the attached pics, it is blotches behind the emperors right gill fin, and they can appear bad for thirty minutes, and then seem like they were never there. I will in about 10 days have a qt tank available.
<They may not last this long to be honest.>
Many thanks Seun Lamprecht
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Brooklynella question 8/19/10
Hello today crew...
<Chris>
I just lost an entire tank of fish to disease. I had a member of my local reef club over and they told me it appeared to be crypt (marine ich) as the fish looked like they were rolled in salt.
<Typical appearance, but there are other causes>
I proceeded to feed them a more varied diet augmented with Selcon and Zoe.
<Not a valid treatment>
After about a week the fish started falling off one by one, and quickly. A fish that looked fine would
become listless and heavy respiration in 10-12 hours, and be dead the next morning. A member of the reef club has looked at the fish post mortem and decided that it appeared to be Brooklynella.
<Could be... but could be summat else, even more than one pathogen... do you utilize quarantine, dip/bath procedures?>
Unfortunately what is lost is lost, but my main question that no one can answer is what do I do from here with the tank. Currently the tank has a few soft corals an RBTA and 5 cleaner shrimp (attempting to clear up the ich).
<Can't, don't do this>
Will the brook parasites eventually disappear in the same way that crypt would, and if so what is the "safe" amount of time before starting over.
<Several weeks... 6-8>
On the bright side, it will let me have some time to build a healthy pod population.
Thank you for your assistance and I look forward to hearing from the REAL experts.
Chris
<In the meanwhile, read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
Take your time... Bob Fenner>

Unknown Disease? 6/5/10
Dear WWM,
<Nick>
I've got a 20 gallon setup with 1 fire goby, 1 small yellow damsel, 1 hermit crab, and 1 pygmy angelfish/cherubfish.
<Okay...>
5 or 6 days ago I bought the pygmy angelfish from a local saltwater dealer.
This dealer has always had extremely healthy fish, and this one looked to be no exception. Due to this, I unwisely skipped my quarantine tank and started this fish off in my regular tank. Just today the fish has gained a coat of
what looks like extremely fine white pollen grains scattered intermittently over the scales. Yesterday the fish was spotless.
<Yikes>
Can marine ich appear this suddenly?
<Yes... and Velvet along w/ a few other less noted Protozoan parasites>
The fish has not been scraping himself on rocks, breathing quickly, refraining from eating, or acting unusually
in any way (at least not yet).
<The last is prophetic>
My tank had marine ich a year or so ago and I remember the spots/cysts on the fish being considerably larger than these I am seeing now on the pygmy angelfish. Does this fish need to be transferred to my quarantine tank and treated for ich ASAP, or would that just be an unnecessary stress on the fish?
<All fishes need to be treated... and soon! There are a few options... but if possible, at all practical, I'd use CP... as it will treat all possible Protozoans... Read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
You may (for lack of the quinine) need to pH-adjusted freshwater dip/bath the fishes enroute to isolation (w or w/o formalin addition), even treat with a copper compound while waiting/ordering the CP if not available locally... Haste is necessary here. Bob Fenner>
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Nick P.

Re: Unknown Disease? SW, Protozoan... 6/6/10
My quarantine tank is only 5 gallons (I used it only for single, small fish), and from all the sources I looked at, the CP is out of my price range. Even better, I've got to leave for a work trip in 3 days. Is there anything I can do to start battling this now besides freshwater dips?
<See WWM re possibilities...>
I've got a 15 gallon tank in our basement that I *could* set up as a quarantine tank.
<... not quarantine. NEED treatment immediately>
I'm just worried that the stress of re-cycling the fish would do them in,
<...?>
although the situation they're in right now is certainly not a good one- I've learned my lesson about not quarantining. What would you suggest given this situation?
-Nick P.
<... treatment. B>

The Constant Battle and the Warriors who survive... SW parasitic disease 5/26/10
Hello WWM Crew,
<Jer>
I have to admit regrettably that for some reason or another despite quarantine and allowing my aquarium to run fallow (besides my inverts) for 6 weeks or more multiple times I always seem to end up with parasites over running my tank. Now I am guessing Cryptocaryon irritans due to research but due to my lack of inexperience in other marine diseases I could be wrong.
<There are quite a few possibilities really>
So I am at my breaking point I have been winning and losing (more losing) this battle on and off for the past 2 years. BTW I almost forgot my tank setup:
200 gallon glass aquarium, Fluval fx5, modified rapids pro wet/dry, emperor
400 (minus the BioWheels) for nitrate battles, Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate < 5ppm. I have tried everything listed on the marine ich pages and have constantly made sure garlic has been in their weekly diet but to no avail I still am losing this war.
<Have you tried Quinine? Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
I do however have one fish that has been an excellent survivor Echidna nebulosa. So a new thought occurs to me.
Could I have a tank with just moray eels?
<Yes>
Well I know I can but could you give me some input on what species could co-exist together well.
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/snoflkeelcompfaqs.htm
Also I am wondering I have had my snowflake co-exist with snails all along is that rare or do they all leave snails alone for the most part.
<Echidnas are partial to crustaceans... leave most all else be>
I would like to keep those alive as they are my main clean up crew. Thanks for any input you might have on the situation.
Jeremy Wright
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

I'm not 100% sure this is black ich.... SW parasite diag. 4/21/10
Hi crew....
<Gretchen>
I've scoured and gathered as much info as I could about black ich around the web and especially your site. For starters, about my tank: 125g w/ 60g sump, skimmer, live rock, live sand, above the tank refugium, plus in sump refugium, 2 Koralia 4's, and mag18 return pump. Tank is fowlr -- but has a rock w/ mushrooms that hitchhiked, very few inverts (5 or 6 hermits, 5 or 6 assorted snails). Tank has been established for 4 months, livestock were moved from a smaller tank. Inhabitants are 1 ocellaris, 1 Banggai Cardinal, 1 Firefish, 3 blue/green Chromis, 1 diamond watchman goby (added him a month ago), and 1 small pistol shrimp -- and our latest addition, a yellow tang, is the reason for this email.
First off, I did not QT (yes, I know, this is the risk I take, especially with tangs). I got him 4 days ago from my LFS. Drip and temp acclimated for 2 hours, and he's been eating clipped algae sheets, Mysis, Spirulina, anything I put in there. He's a small one.
Today, I noticed black splinter looking things...
<... splinter?>
this is why I'm emailing. I cannot get a picture -- he's camera shy.
<You need to practice>
It was suggested in a forum that it could be black ich. There are only 2 or 3 pictures I've seen (one is that yellow tang image in your site and one is black ich on a hippo tang),...the problem is, the ones on my tang don't look like spots...they literally look like tiny splinters of wood. Could that be the start of black ich?
<Mmm, no... perhaps these are monogenetic Trematodes, maybe parasitic copepods...>
I also noticed a very light gash along his side. I'm thinking it could have happened while trying to scratch himself on the rocks to get rid of the parasites?
<Could be>
The little "splinters" look like the gash, except they're poking out a bit....ironically, as I write this, I'm wondering now if this could be the start of WHITE ich...hrm..so if it is white ich, would the scratching start before the white spots show up?
<Yes, could>
Ok, so if this is black ich, how long before it turns into the spots that I see on the fish? Like, what comes first -- the itching or the spots?
<... read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/blkichsympf.htm and the linked files above>
Some observations about his behavior:
- I see him brushing the sand and sometimes the rock with his pelvic fins, like he's just brushing the areas. But I could interpret them as rubbing because of the parasites.
- When I first got him, he paced up and down the tank, pressing himself against the glass..but I attributed it to just adjustment time.
Upon some research on products, I settled on getting Seachem Paraguard. I even spoke to a representative. It's not copper or formalin based.
<It's Glutaraldehyde>
It's invert safe, but with caution -- she suggested a partial dose at first to get them used to it. Since I'm fowlr, I will just take out the shrimp, cuc, and the rock w/ the mushrooms and put them in a qt tank. I will treat the main tank.
<I would not do this>
I'm assuming the eggs have been dropped and in the substrate at this point, so I want to kill them there, too. The rep and my lfs did warn that with any meds, it will cause stress, so I'm aware that I might have some casualties, but I'm hoping it turns out well. Any opinions you might have with this product are welcome (so far, majority of the reviews raved about this product).
<People have got to learn... as in understand, that anyone writing anything on the Net doesn't make it so...>
As always, thanks for your time, crew! You guys are awesome!
<Is there a chance you have access to a low power microscope? Please search WWM re such use. Bob Fenner>

Re: I'm not 100% sure this is black ich.... -- 04/22/10
Please forward to Bob Fenner.
<Howsit Gretchen?>
I took what you said into advisement. Are Trematodes and parasitic Turbellarian similar?.
<Mmm, yes... both groups are part of the Flatworms, phylum Platyhelminthes, and all that this implies... similar morphology, physiology...>
I sat patiently, and managed to get a decent shot of the black bumps:
http://s722.photobucket.com/albums/ww227/wontonflip/125gallon/Fish/?action=view&current=sick_tang.jpg
<Mmm, this does look like Paravortex>
I saw what might be a possible start of HLLE as well.
<Mmmm, not really... perhaps some collecting/shipping damage... should heal up w/ "good care">
He is still eating heartily (I've seen him many times munching on algae sheets, and he eats anything I put in the tank).
<A very good sign>
He's also got jerky movements -- shaking his head/body to the right (the opposite side where the black spots are), as if trying to dislodge something.
I'm guessing that since he's eating, the ich (if he has it) and hlle might have gone away on its own under normal circumstances. But because of that black parasite looking thing, it will just weaken him, so he might not be able to fight the ich, correct? That guess made, I will go ahead and do a freshwater dip and qt him .
<Good... this is really all that is necessary to remove the Turbellarian.
Cheers, BobF>
The descriptions I saw on WetWeb seem complicated for the dips....I've also seen some instructions to literally take rodi, make it the same temp as the main tank, and just put the fish in for a few minutes. Of course WetWeb says the dip is a "specially prepared solution". But can it be literally just tank-temp rodi?
<Sorry... didn't see this... regular tap/freshwater, pH adjusted is best>
You mentioned Glutaraldehyde as being the active ingredient in Seachem Paraguard...so that ingredient should hopefully aid in killing whatever parasite is on the tang?
<Mmm, not if this is a worm, not really>
I'm thinking he has ich, too...it's just not showing...
<? Not likely>reviews I've read claim it worked on their fish's ich, as well.
Thanks in advance!
Gretchen

Re: Brown powder tang... Protozoan... all fishes dead... what next? 3/16/10
Hi Guys,
<Gilberto>
Well I read many articles on WWM and I separated the Brown powder tang from the main tank. unfortunately he died two days later, and I guess he infested the whole tang so now all my fish died. What can I do next?
<?>
I really love the hobby since am a marine lover but I feel down right now.
I don't know what to do next? should I do a water change? if yes how many?
<... you're faced with basically two choices... to just wait, allow the system to "go fallow" (read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/fallowtkfaqs.htm),
or bleach it and have it re-cycle, add some new LR to repopulate it...>
and how will I know when the disease is completely gone?
<In the first choice, a matter of guesswork>
all my dish died the same way trying to swim towards the surface. Please help me.
<... Keep reading for now... Bob Fenner>

Question Regarding Ich and Brooklynella 3/12/10
I have read your site for months before and after getting my first saltwater tank. And I'll start by saying I knew I should have set up a QT tank and did not.
<If only we had a dollar for every time we've heard/read that expressed>
Rest assured that will never happen again. I have a 20gallon QT running now, but it's a little too late. I've read all the links for Ich and various treatments, etc. As well as detailed info on each fish I have. I hope its okay to email you as I'm truly lost as to which option is my best bet right now.
Tank Stats:
Display 90 gallon with Tidepool II Sump. UV sterilizer,
<Depending on the med./s used, this may need to be turned off>
Prizm skimmer.
<And this>
Bought system as an established tank with no fish left (they had a fire and lost electricity at some point) Moved 100 pounds of live rock, 60% of water. Replaced dirty corral
<Yee hah!>
substrate with 4 inch live sand bed. Cycle was short to non existent, no ammonia detected, nitrate spiked to 60, but controlled with water changes and adding skimmer. Currently Ammonia, 0, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5-10. Tank has been up 3 months, stocked fish slowly, but no QT. Was selective about where I got fish, but obviously not enough.
Residents
2 Blue tailed damsels (unaffected until yesterday, now declining quickly)
2 Ocellaris clowns (now deceased)
2 black ocellaris clowns (1 deceased, 1 struggling in formalin (Rid Ich + QT tank) All clowns were tank raised juveniles.
1 Pink spotted goby ("appears" unaffected)
1 3" Blue tang (The fish I've always wanted and why I got the tank)
Infested with ICH for 10 days.
Cleaner shrimp who doesn't clean (bought 2 one died on introduction)
Current one just molted today
Had bought a neon goby which did a great job but it succumbed to Ich within days. (I feel terribly for having tried this, desperation causing stupid decisions)
Less than two weeks after adding the blue tang, I saw what I thought was ich, very hard to see, my husband said I was imagining it-NOT) Raised tank temp to 81, added UV sterilizer, added garlic. Tried Kick Ich (A WASTE OF
TIME AND MONEY- I knew it was too good to be true, but I was praying it would work)
<Ah, yes... see WWM re my unrelenting campaign against this and other worthless non-remedies>
No other fish showed signs until yesterday am when the clowns looked terrible. But they don't have spots, more strings, and looks like its peeling. So I was guessing Brooklynella.
<Mmm, maybe>
I lost 1 almost immediately. I did prepare a PH adjusted freshwater bath, which it lived through, but died within the hour. I then scrambled to go buy a QT tank, and decide between copper and formalin.
<Mmmm>
Drove 2 hours to get formalin, could only get Rid Ich + (formalin and Mal Green) I chose this as I thought it might save the clowns if it was Brook, and might also cure the tangs ICH. One clown was almost dead by the time I
got home, passed away shortly after moving to the new tank. I moved the clowns and the tang. The tang FREAKED out, swam frantically and then laid on the bottom and appeared to not be able to swim.
<Simple stress>
I was hoping she was just hiding, I left her there for 4 hours when in the middle of the night I couldn't stand it as I thought she was dying from the formalin and moved her back to the DT. In the DT she slept in "her" rock, and was out swimming this am. She'll eat anything except the Metronidazole soaked food I made. I typically feed frozen Mysis, vitamin packed brine, Cyclop-eeze, marine cuisine and Formula 1 and 2 flakes.
So I'm left with one small clown in the QT tank with the one dose of Rid Ich + from last night, and the others in my DT. I'm not sure if I should do the second dose of formalin and put the tang back in, I'm guessing NOT.
<How will you treat this fish otherwise?>
Or if I should change the water (completely, partially, use new or system (infected) water) and try copper or Hypo.
<I'd use a Quinine compound... CP... Maybe "start over" treatment wise, dip/bath the fish enroute to the treatment tank... in pH-adjusted freshwater... with formalin alone if you had it>
Is it too stressful to try copper at this point for the clown (if it pulls through) or the tang who was in the formalin for 4 hours last night.
<I don't like/use copper on Clownfishes or Acanthuroids (the suborder that includes Tangs, Rabbitfishes and more)... is too toxic to be efficacious>
Should I just leave her in my DT for a couple days to de-stress, or is that going to kill her too?
<Too likely to die there due to whatever the protozoan presence>
I know hypo is not 100%, but would it be safer at this point?
<See my statement above... and read here on WWM:
http://wetwebmedia.com/quinmedfaqs.htm
and here: http://wetwebmedia.com/crypttangsf4.htm
and here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clndiscrypt.htm>
I'll leave the goby in the DT if I do copper and then pull him into QT after copper for the fallow period for my tank... or would he still be carrying ich and reinfect the tang?
<Yes>
How do you think he'll do in the QT environment. I would really love to save my tang, but I'm afraid to make the choice on what to do. I haven't slept the past two nights, and I'm truly at a loss on what to do.
<Move all fishes>
I apologize for the rambling, and would humbly ask for some help. I will obviously be letting my tank go fallow, and will religiously QT from this day forward.
Thanks for any advice, Pam
<Do write back after reading... and this soon... should you have any further questions, want clarification. Bob Fenner>
Re: Question Regarding Ich and Brooklynella 3/12/10
Bob,
<Pam>
Thanks so much for the reply. I didn't truly expect a response. I hate to sound like everyone of the emails I've read on your site, but here goes.
I'm really hating the thought of moving my tang and goby to the bare bottom small QT.
<Not quarantine, really... treatment>
I've read some accounts of using the Crypto Cure - Quinine Sulfate in the display tank. If I moved half my rock, my snails, and my shrimp to QT could I treat my display tank with QS?
<You could... but this isn't the proscribed SOP I'd go with...>
I'm going to be out of town next week for work (my husband will be here, but he's not going to be thrilled if I ask him to do daily water changes and monitor ammonia in my non-cycled QT). My live rock has little live growth at this point anyhow (was pretty much bare when I got it with the tank, now has some small sponge growth and a little green algae). How dangerous would this be?
<Not very>
My main concern is saving the tang, without risking ammonia spikes in QT when I'm not here... Does QS wipe out the biologic filter (I run a Biowheel with the rock and sand...)
<Very rarely do/es Quinine/s disrupt nitrification... if any effect, this is indirect>
I can't get the QS today, can order it overnighted from National Fish Pharmacy for delivery tomorrow am...Is that okay?
<Likely so>
The only thing I could start today would be hypo, but I assume the shift I could make in 24 hours wouldn't offer much relief anyhow?
<Not worth the stress IMO... and this can very easily kill off beneficial microbes/biological filtration>
Also it looks like my lights should be OFF during treatment with QS? Is ambient room light okay?
<Yes and yes>
Thanks again for the response, and please don't take my asking about treating the display as disrespect for your opinion. I'm just really worried about not being here to oversee the QT.
<I understand. BobF>
Thanks, Pam Speck

Re: Question Regarding Ich and Brooklynella 3/12/10
Thank you so much for your assistance. I will write back with an update.
Thanks again, Pam
<Real good. BobF>
Re: Question Regarding Ich and Brooklynella 3/12/10
On a much less urgent note, and please don't feel you have to respond, as I'm sure you have tons of email to look at.
1) I'm wondering how long to wait before I consider getting another clown fish (the struggling survivor in the hospital tank did not make it). I'm pretty certain it was Brooklynella, it looked nothing like the ich on the tang, and was so fast, and obviously deadly. If I understand correctly its possible my damsels can host the disease, thus keeping it in my tank?
<Yes, this is so>
Any chance the QS will take care of that too?
<Yes... Please see WWM re this Ciliate>
(I'm sure that's too easy to hope for!) If I waited 6 months could I put clowns back in my tank (after QT of course?) Or is it too risky to even consider putting clowns back in unless the damsels are gone for awhile first?
<Less risky as time goes by>
2) Eventually I would like to add a trio of McCosker's Flasher Wrasses.
I've seen some info in the FAQ's that QT is questionable on these type of fish. What would your suggestion be, given that my tank is infested. Will treat with QS and wait at least a couple months before I start looking at additions. (I will be QTing every other fish I decide to add, just wasn't sure with the FAQ's on these if I should on the flasher wrasse's or not)
<This interval should prove fine>
Thanks again, and I commend you and the rest of the "crew" on providing such a wonderful resource for those trying to learn about the hobby.
<Certainly welcome. BobF>

Parasite Problems/Snake Oil Remedies -- 11/23/2009
Hello!
<Hello Ashley! JustinN here>
I have a problem in my tank and I believe it is related to parasites, but I'm not sure what to do!
<Lets see if we can help!>
I purchased a new Ocellaris clown a week ago from my LFS. I do not quarantine as I don't have the space for another tank (I know you will hate that!).
<You are correct, and I think you also now see the benefit of a quarantine configuration. Please do consider setting one up in the future -- remember, the tank doesn't have to run all the time, only when you're quarantining new purchases. If you quarantined fish, I bet we wouldn't be chatting now!
*grin*>
A few days later I noticed it had "clownfish disease" (or so my LFS owner thought at least).
<I assume that Velvet or Brooklynella are the 'clownfish disease' that is being referred to here -- is possible, not uncommon.>
I did a 5 minute freshwater dip and put him back in the tank. He looked mostly better, but a few days after that my Purple Firefish died suddenly.
It had one small white spot (about 1/2 cm or so in diameter) but no other obvious signs of distress or disease. I also noticed that my Banggai Cardinalfish had developed what appears to be fin rot. His fins are smaller, the base of each fin is red, and some are covered in a cloudy white film, one is even "glued" to his body by this film. The clown still had one area of missing scales but looked better than before.
<Sounds like a toxic water condition to me -- are you testing your tank regularly on your own?>
My LFS owner recommended I treat with Ruby Reef's Rally, but this is the third day of treatment and I see no improvement.
<And you will likely not see any improvement -- this 'medication' is akin to snake oil, a hoax... have a read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/homeopathfaqs.htm and here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/medfaqs2.htm -- search for "Ruby Reef Rally" within these pages for general consensus of these products...>
The Cardinalfish is only getting worse. Just prior to this outbreak I added a Pulsing Xenia Coral. It looked perky the first day, but it fell into a crack and I had to gently pull it out by the stalk as I could not get to the small rock it was on (after this I glued it to a bigger rock).
<Not likely a problem, I have done this before without deleterious effects to Xenia sp.>
Since doing that and adding the Rally treatment the Xenia has been droopy, is not pulsing, and is turning a dark brown color at the base.
<The Rally is the problem -- Stephen Pro did a study investigating Rally, and other similar 'cure-all' medications, and found that within a few days, a tank treated with Rally would have its Xenia sp. corals melt away into nothing -- very similar as to when copper is added to a reef tank.>
I have a 38 gallon tank with a bunch of live rock, a Galaxy coral, Frogspawn coral, many purple mushrooms, a Monti plate coral, 1 Blue Star Leopard Wrasse, 2 Ocellaris clowns, 1 Banggai Cardinalfish, 1 Mandarin Goby, 1 Skunk Cleaner shrimp, 1 Harlequin shrimp, 1 Sally Lightfoot crab, several blue-leg hermits, and a bunch of different snails. I use RO water from my LFS that they mix with aquarium salt and I do water changed bi-weekly so tank parameters are always normal.
<Are you testing these parameters, verifying their normalness? Please do provide actual figures -- much easier to provide advice.>
What can I do for the Xenia and the Cardinalfish? Should I continue treating with Rally, try something different, or just let it be? I am leaving town tomorrow night for the Thanksgiving holiday (but will return Thanksgiving night). Please help!
Ashley
<Stop treating with the Rally post haste, and add some activated carbon and/or Poly-Filter to remove the excess medication from your water -- your Xenia may not last much longer if you don't. Beyond this, I would test your water and verify where your parameters currently sit -- the issues sound most like toxic water conditions to me... please do provide further substantial details so we may paint a better picture here. Good luck!
-JustinN>

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