Water Movement/Plumbing 11/3/09 Good afternoon crew, <Hello Chris> I am in the planning process of upgrading my aquarium filtration and have a question or two for you. I will be removing all my hang on back filters and skimmer from my 29 gallon aquarium and installing one hang on back style overflow in order to install a sump where I can grow some macro algea <algae>. I have been researching and am leaning toward the CPR brand of overflow which has the C-style tube as opposed to the J-style. My question is regarding what flow rate I should use. I would like to get the over flow rated for 600 or 800 gph. The 600 is 20x the aquarium volume but I really want the water to be moving and not let anything settle which is a problem I have right now which is why the 800 wouldn't be too bad. I'm planning on using the return set up diagrammed by your very own Anthony Calfo <No longer with the crew.> with the returns bordering the top of the aquarium by piping. One adjustment I would like to make is that I want to extend two lines to the bottom of the tank to ensure that there is plenty of movement along the bottom of the aquarium. <It will not be necessary in your 29, you will have plenty of movement, and doing this will require extra plumbing to prevent siphoning of the tank should a power outage occur.> I will try and attach a diagram of what I want to do to make sure its understood. My main concern is regarding return flow and head pressure. I read in one of the FAQs that every junction in the return tubing is like adding 1' of head pressure. Does that mean that for every bend or branch in my water return I need to add that much more to how much my pump can handle? For example: If I went with the 800 gph overflow, would the Mag Drive 9.5 which is rated a 800 gph at 4' head pressure be extremely underpowered for my return designs when the top of my aquarium is 4' from the floor? <Should be fine if you eliminate the unnecessary lines to the bottom of the aquarium.> Thanks for all your help and I hope this was understandable. <These type overflows work best when the pumps actual flow rate is closely matched to the rated gph of the overflow. In your case I would go with the 600 overflow and use the Mag Drive 9.5. This should be a real close match up. Is better to have a too much pump as you can always throttle it down by incorporating a gate/ball valve at the output of the pump. Using undersized pumps with these type overflows can cause bubble build up much faster in the top of the "C" tube. James (Salty Dog)> Chris

Oceanic Reef Ready Bow Front/Plumbing 9/20/09
Hello,
<Hi Julie>
I've had numerous salt & fresh water set ups over the past 2 decades and was recently given a 72 gallon Oceanic Set up that's set with the over flow in the corner so it can be plumbed from the bottom. This is the first tank we've had to be a bottom plumbed tank and I was wondering what you'd suggest for a filtration system.
<Most folks will use a wet/dry or sump for this application. It offers excellent air/gas exchange and a convenient place for the heater and filtration aids such as a protein skimmer.>
W/out looking at the tank I want to say one bulk head is a 2" and the other 1 1/2". It will be a fish only system w/live rock only for hiding places.
<Your system likely has a 1" bulkhead for the drain and a 1" for the return. PVC pipe sizes are dictated by the I.D. Example, a 1/2" for the return 1/2" in diameter on the inside, and about 7/8" on the outside. A 1" pipe will measure 1 3/8" on the O.D. Do read here and linked files above for additional plumbing info.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm>
Thanks!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Julie

Re Oceanic Reef Ready Bowfront/Plumbing
Hi Bob,
I noticed a typo on my part...<Your system likely has a 1" bulkhead for the drain and a 1" for the return. PVC pipe sizes are dictated by the I.D.
Example, a 1/2" PVC pipe will measure...
Should have read 1/2" for the return.
Watching too damn many Tarzan movies lately, distracting.
James
<Will try to find, amend... B>

Coral Beauty Behavior/New Plumbing – 07/27/09
Hi Eric,
<<Hello Wayne>>
I wouldn't say this is a new behaviour. It was doing this before the removal of the clowns; it started doing this a few days after it was moved from quarantine to the display (about 3 weeks now) although I think it has been getting more frequent in the last week.
<<Mmm, I see… It’s hard to say what may be the issue. This fish often does not fare well from collection/travel stresses…but can be quite hardy if/when a healthy specimen is obtained, and once it is well acclimated. If the system is healthy (e.g. – good water quality, adequate water flow, adequate structure for hiding/resting places) I don’t think there’s much to be done. I suggest waiting to see how it behaves once more fishes are introduced>>
My wife has generously allowed me a budget and some time to re-plumb the system and fix everything up to make me happy so that I'll stop tinkering with the plumbing and being a generally grumpy person on the weekend because I feel like things aren't quite right.
<<Ah…but to be a reef hobbyists is to tinker…isn’t it?>>
I'll be moving the sump to the basement and passing the overflow and return lines through the floor. This means I'll be able to add a better protein skimmer and new pump to handle the extra head.
<<Okay>>
I'm looking at either a Danner Mag Drive 1800 Supreme or a Poseidon PS4 for the pump and perhaps a Vertex IN-180, AquaC EV-120 or one of the Pacific Coast Needle Wheel skimmers (the 350 I think it was).
<<I would be inclined to stick with one of the first two listed here>>
I am a bit hesitant with the Pacific Coast skimmer as I am having a hard time finding reviews for these.
<<Indeed>>
I would consider the MRC MR-1 but I cannot get one in my area and it seems most of the online suppliers either will not ship to Canada or the additional costs are unreasonable. The Danner pump seems a little more favourable since it would mean a few less plumbing connections and it sounds like the Poseidon may raise my water temperature a fair bit.
<<Valid concerns…the Mag Drive/most any pump will add some heat to the system>>
I'd hate to buy a $300 pump only to end up needing to buy a chiller as well! Do you have any comments on the pumps or skimmers?
<<I prefer a submersible pump for most applications; where you can get one big enough to do the job, for their ease of installation and generally quieter operation. Eheim is my first choice for quality/dependability, but sizes are very limited. The Mag Drive should do fine… And though maybe not the most reliable pump (consider having a spare return pump on hand), they are usually “good enough”…and…do surprisingly well with head –pressure. I have a Mag Drive 1200 (1200gph) that will outperform at height the supposedly better made Ocean Runner 6500 (1700gph)>>
Besides the obvious check valves and ball valves, are there any suggestions you would make for plumbing a basement sump?
<<The only real difference between this and one under your cabinet is the length of the plumbing run (and easier access!). Primary consideration will be sizing the pump correctly. Go a little bigger than you think you need…and plumb a gate-vale on the output side of the pump to temper flow as/if needed>>
I am considering using TigerFlex PVC hose for the overflow drain lines to cut down on resistance from elbows etc and to make plumbing easier. Standard PVC for the return line
<<I would use the flex-PVC going “both” directions (to and from)…for the reasons you state>>
and likely a 3 chamber sump for in/out/refugium although I have been thinking about just using something like a stock tank as well.
<<Go for simplicity…and the largest volume you can accommodate>>
Thanks for your continued input.
Wayne
<<Always welcome… Eric Russell>>

Crazy Plumbing question: It could work, but I hope nothing ever fails in the system. 7/15/2009 <Hi Mike.> Alrighty, bare with me, as this may be a bit confusing to type, probably even more so for those of you reading...lol. <I will confess it took me a bit to visualize.> I'm setting up a 200 gallon Marineland Deep dimension, dual corner overflow, with Starphire front glass. <Nice.> In talking with the owner of the LFS where I purchased this tank, and then another hobbyist who recently set up this same tank, we came up with an idea, that seems crazy, at first...but more feasible, the more I think about it. The overflows come with Marineland Dursos and returns, 1 Durso and 1 return for each overflow. The overflows also have a removable "plate," at the front, that has a "grill" cut into the bottom of it, and a grill cut into the top. The top grill works as the overflow preskimmer. The bottom grill has no purpose that I can see, as the are no holes behind it......yet!!! Oh boy, I can see this is going to require pictures. Here's a picture of the overflow, front plate installed. [img]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3721781538_13b370b44c_b.jpg[/img] Front plate removed and plumbing setting in place. [img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2567/3720968819_435220939f_b.jpg[/img] Front plate. [img]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/3720969387_17ee1cac35_b.jpg[/img] <Ahh.... that is to pull some of the water from the lower part of the tank into the overflow.> So, here's our thoughts, yes, Barbie's included in this possibly insane idea!!! One of the overflows will serve as a typical overflow, as designed, draining to a sump/refugium and then returning. <Ok.> The other overflow will be modified and used as a closed loop feed. Here's the plan: <In the beginning, there was a plan....> Remove the plate and drill 2X 1"-1 1/4" holes in the overflow, in about the area of the lower "grills." <3 to 4 inches from the bottom of the tank.> The removable plate will be reinstalled over these holes. These new holes will then be plumbed to the bulkheads, using spa flex. PVC would be used from the bottom of the bulkheads onward... This will give me 2X1" lines, draining out the bottom of that overflow. These 2X1" lines would be combined, using a Y, into a single 1 1/2" line, which would feed a large pump, like a Dolphin 3000/4000. <Would use a 2" line> The output of the pump would be 1 1/2" or 2". The output would be split into either 2 or 4 return lines, which would return over the back. My first thought, is 4 return lines, 2 feeding 3/4" SeaSwirls and 2 feeding 3/4" LocLine with penductors. Each return line would be plumbed with a ball valve, to fine tune flow. <So you are talking about a true closed loop, nothing but recirculating water.> Ball valves would also be plumbed before and after the pump. I wouldn't even need the spa-flex, if I just stubbed 1" PVC a couple of inches out of each bulkhead and screened the ends off. This would enable all of the water in that overflow to be turned over quickly. It would also enable me to cut more, or larger holes, behind that cover plate. <Larger holes will not gain you anything. No matter how many or how big the holes are, all the water still has to go through 2 x 1" I.D. holes.> This would give me one overflow that's plumbed to the sump/fuge and the second overflow being modified for the closed loop. My original concern was that the 2X1" lines would limit me to only about 1200 GPH of flow. Then it was brought to my attention that the 600GPH per hole, represents gravity flow, NOT flow forced by the large pump. <A common misconception. 300 gph is closer to reality for gravity flow. 600GPH in a 1" is a best case, with all of the stars and planets in their proper alignment and you have complete siphon, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm> <That said, in this circumstance, with a pump 'pulling' and the weight of the water above the drains 'pushing' you should certainly get 600 GPH, perhaps more. I certainly would not try this with anything less that schedule 80 PVC just from the standpoint of pure safety, in this type of setup, a failure anywhere in the loop could cause a disaster..> Soooo, does any of this make any sense at all?? <It does,> Sincerely, A devoted reader and fan, Michael <MikeV>

Re: Crazy Plumbing question: 7/17/2009 <Hi Michael.> Thank you for such a quick response and your comments and advice!! Now I'm back with a slight change....uh oh... <Hehehe, no problem.> I would still drill two 1" holes in the overflow, under the removable cover. Instead of plumbing these holes to the bulkheads, I would just leave them covered with the "grill" of the removable cover. Inside the overflow, I would stub 1" PVC pipe out of each bulkhead, just an inch or so. This would allow water from the display AND from the overflow to supply the pump. <Fair enough, the flow rates will be about the same though.> If I'm reading your response correctly, no matter what I do, short of drilling larger holes in the glass (which I will not be doing), the most I'll be able to get out of the pump, no matter what pump I use, will be approximately 1200 gph? <Perhaps slightly more, due to pressure, but certainly no more than 1500gph.> If this is the case, I may scrap the idea and go with internal powerheads, leaving both corner overflows for their intended use. <Whichever you decide, do let us know.> Thanks again, <My pleasure.> Michael <MikeV>

Marine plumbing, its a nightmare!! 6/17/09 Hi guys and gals, first I just want to say how great this site is. I found this place when I first started out keeping fish, it's been a great help:) <Thank you, great to hear!> I currently have 4 tanks, 2 tropical and 2 marine (I'm attempting to merge the marine tanks into one). I'm having a pig of a week what with the general crap going on in the world, cut-backs at work and to top it off I was greeted home Monday by whitespot in my Reef setup. <Uh oh.> I'm taking your advice Bob after reading through many posts on the site and going fallow (lots of fun... i don't think!). Anyway, that's not what this is about, my real problem is the plumbing on my new tank. This is the first time I've attempted to build my own tank and even after reading your many listings on the subject for months now I still get a headache just thinking about it. I thought I'd done the hardest part of the job just drilling the glass... was I wrong or what!? <Drilling is intimidating, but fairly easy.> Anyway, to the point, I've got one 1 1/2" drain pipe which tee's under the main tank and goes to my holding tank and sump (ball valves are fitted either side of the tee in order to control the flow). My holding tank has two 3/4" pipes that drop down into the sump where I have a Rio pump supposedly pushing 3500Lph back to the tank (I plan on replacing this shortly:)) also through 3/4" (the pump is recommended at a maximum head of 3meters.) I'm having loads of trouble trying to quiet down the drain pipe, I've tried just about everything I can think of and all the fixes I can find both on your site and the web in general (the only thing I haven't tried is the Durso fix because of the lack of space in the weir and I think it would just empty the weir quicker than new water could fall back into its place). If anyone could give me any info it'd be much appreciated, have I simply got this completely wrong and it'll never work in which case do I have to go back to the drawing board? <Two things come to mind. First, if you have just a straight pipe in the overflow you are going to have noise. You do need to fabricate some sort of "standpipe", whether it be Durso, Stockman or a creation of your own. With just an open pipe you will keep getting gurgling and sucking noises. The other thing to look at is the valves on the drain line. Any restriction at all drastically reduces the flow capacity, even if you have two outlets such as this you may not be getting what a 1.5" line can actually flow. This too can lead to quite a bit of noise.> Cheers in advance, Dave (UK) <Hope this helps you troubleshoot this, Scott V.> Diagram included: Main tank 72"x24"x24" Sump 43"x15"(h)x12"(w) Holding tank 12"x12"x24" Weir 10"x20"x 21"/22" split in half (drain and return)

System Setup, Plumbing, Pumps 5/21/09
Hello, WWM Crew!
<Hello Dan.>
After bidding a sad farewell to my 50-gallon all-in-one system last year (moved 1500 miles away), I'm returning to the hobby now.
<Great!>
I've just ordered a 135-gallon tank with a 38-gallon sump. The main tank has two 1.5" overflow drains and two 1" returns drilled. I'm planning a reef tank.
<Sounds good so far.>
So here's the question: do you recommend a single 1500 GPH return pump that returns to both 1" holes, or two smaller units?
<One smaller unit.>
I can imagine some pros and cons of each: for the one pump: simpler (except have to split the plumbing to go back to two holes), maybe quieter (?). For the two pumps: don't need to split the plumbing, and if one fails the other one keeps going so you don't have a period of zero water flow.
<Tis an advantage.>
Your thoughts? Your recommendation for brand/model of pump(s)?
<For this setup I would look into either the Eheim 1262 or Oceanrunner 3500. Neither will provide 1500 gph, but you really do not want this. Two 1.5" bulkheads can flow 1500, but it leaves no redundancy. I would keep your flow to 700-750 or so, leaving a 100% redundancy in overflow capacity should any clog occur. It will in time.>
Thanks so much!
Dan
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Plumbing a 95 Gal FOWLR – 05/04/09
Greetings,
<<Hello>>
I am planning the setup of a 95 gallon FOWLR tank (36"x24"x24").
<<Nice dimensions>>
I will order the tank with two vertical overflows, but I am not sure if I should go with 1.5" holes at 750gph or 2" holes at 1200gph.
<<It depends on your plans/plumbing… The 1.5” will probably suffice, but having the extra capacity of the 2” available when/if need is always nice>>
Is 2" overkill?
<<No… Especially when it comes to easing plumbing noise issues>>
Also, if I install a closed-loop manifold, does this change the answer?
<<Not really… More detail on your plumbing plans (pumps, desired flow, etc.) would have helped here, but based on the size of the tank I’m guessing a 1.5” drain will provide ample feed to the pump you’ll be using for the closed-loop. And the other 1.5” drain will process enough water (and likely more than you will want to deal with noise-wise) through the sump. But like I said, going with 2” drains will provide a bit more leeway in either direction…is up to you>>
Thanks, as usual.
<<Happy to share… EricR>>

Re: Plumbing a 95 Gal FOWLR – 05/05/09
Thanks Eric and crew.
<<Quite welcome>>
Now more details on plumbing plans for your review:
* Main Display: The 95 gal. glass tank will have two sets of overflows, each overflow drilled for a 2" drain to sump/fug and 1.5" return to tank.
<<Excellent>>
* Sump & Refugium: I have a custom made acrylic sump/refugium that is 30 gallons total (really 20 gallons with water and 10 gallons in case of tank backflow).
<<Do test that this will be adequate…it is not unusual for the reverse (10g running capacity and 20g “empty” volume to catch all the transient water volume)>>
The sump is split down the middle (long ways) with one side for the refugium and the other side with a skimmer section (AquaC Urchin with Mag Drive 3),
<<A good skimmer, but marginal in size for the system…in my opinion (I would have gone a size larger). This doesn’t mean it won’t work out fine…time will tell>>
baffle section and return area (using a Mag Drive 9.5). The refugium section overflows in to the return area.
<<Sounds good>>
* Goal: My goal is to incorporate a closed-loop manifold and accomplish a total turnover of about 1500 gph (15x), as well as capitalize on the redundancy of the overflows which can handle 1200 gph each. So now the big question: How to do it?
<<…? Here and among the associated links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cllooppbfaqs.htm >>
* Drains: After reading a ton of strings on WWM, it seems I should bring both 2" drains down to the sump and tee each of them off with a ball or gate valve to adjust flow to the refugium to about 10x.
<<Mmm, no… If you are planning a closed-loop, you will need to plumb one of these drains directly to the pump used for the closed-loop. Remember, as the name implies, there is no “open” portion of the loop such as the sump/refugium. Utilizing a 1500gph pump to pull water from the sump and return it to the tank via a manifold is simply just that…a “return manifold”…and in a 30g sump will present a whole host of problems re bubbles and noise, I assure you>>
That way the ‘fuge gets a dose of raw water from the display, with the balance of the water going into the sump for skimming. What am I missing?
<<As just explained>>
Is there a better way to accomplish this?
<<Indeed...if you really want a true closed-loop. The refugium can be fed via a “tee” off the one overflow that will be servicing the Mag 9.5 return pump>>
* Returns: I am honestly confused by all the info I have read about plumbing back to the display when you have dual overflows and what to include an over the top closed-loop manifold. I ended up my reading with the thought that I need two submersible pumps (maybe Eheim 1262s based on 5' head pressure) going from the return section of the sump - one used solely for the manifold system (which will have 3/4" PVC framing and five 1/2" outlets with loc-line)
<<Do consider that you need about 300-350 gph of flow after head-loss and “per ½” nozzle” to achieve good flow>>
and the other to the 1.5" overflow return lines using a tee. This would make a total of three pumps in my sump, which may get crowded.
<<Yes… Not to mention the noise such flow through a 30g sump would cause. And again, what you propose is not a true closed-loop…but a simple return manifold>>
I would then want to install dedicated GFCI outlets to power each pump. I have read about using an external pump like the Reeflo Snapper or Dart to power the returns, but I have never used external pumps and would have to drill the acrylic sump (which I would like to avoid unless it is the best way to go).
<<The external pump is the best way to go for the “closed-loop”…yes>>
I guess the plumbing with the external pump would be similar? What is best option to accomplish the turnover I am looking for?
<<I prefer Tunze Stream pumps (or similar) for flow within the tank…and I hear many folks like the Koralia pumps as a cheaper solution>>
As always, thanks for your time and sharing of knowledge.
<<Quite welcome… Do consider my statements…and read up on the closed-loop to gain a better understanding re…and then write back and let’s chat about all this further. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Plumbing and RDP [Bob F, Scott V] 4/13/09
Hey Bob, Scott V, crew! Happy Easter to all!
<Hello Jeremiah, happy day after to you! Scott V. today.>
I hope this finds everyone in "hoppy" spirits hehe!
<It does, thanks.>
I have two really quick questions... I am setting up a 75 gallon reef that I have received tons of great info on thanks to Scott...thank you Scott!
<Happy to help.>
I'm having 3 holes drilled in the back wall. Two to accommodate my GlassHoles overflow box and the other to accommodate a possible CL. The purported closed loop hole is not very deep in the tank, slightly under the other 2. So that the tank won't have to be drained to the hole level with future plumbing installation I have come up with an idea I'd like your input on. I will be using flex pvc for all plumbing but in this case I thought that out of the bulkhead I will plumb a hard pvc line long enough to put a valve on. The end of this line would have threads so that I could adhere some kind of threaded cap/plug on the end with a little silicone until the rest of the plumbing is intact.
<Sounds good.>
That way if the valve slowly seeped the cap would definitely stop all else. Also, whenever I decided to finish the plumbing, ideally I would keep the valve shut off, undo/unthread the cap, install the rest of the flex pvc to wherever it is going, allow enough cure time, then open the valve and let the flow proceed. If I works out, it'd allow me to finish the plumbing without draining the tank at all. Do you see any problems or hidden obstacles?
<Nope.>
My hopes are that this arrangement would be leak/drip free. It could be a year or two before anymore action was taken on this hole. I wasn't sure because it seems too easy! Will there be a trade off or sacrifice installing this way?
<Just a bit extra work, but no issues.>
Ok, on to my next question. Other than my 75 gallon display, I will be running a 55 gallon "display" refugium slightly lower and to the side, and a 55 gallon sump underneath. The sump will house a skimmer, return pump, heater, and a few stray pieces of live rock. It will sectioned off in 2 sections, skimmer and return. Since the fuge will be its own display, I'd like to have its lights on the same time frame as the 75 reef. I was shooting for the benefits of RDP, and was wondering if I could light the sump and use it for the reverse photoperiod, still getting the same benefits as if I were to use the fuge?!?
<Not without a macroalgae growing in the sump.>
Would there be something "alive" I would need to put in there to reap the benefits?
<Yes.>
I didn't know if the reduction of PH fluctuations was just from lit water...heeee!?
<It is not.>
Ok.. to change the subject for a sec, there was a disagreement, slight difference of opinions so to speak, between Bob and James "salty dog" back in January regarding ground fault devices.
<And again recently!>
I'd like to give my "2 cents" [I hear my wife saying uh-oh], I am an Electrician by trade and I must side with Bob...[no not kissing rear] they are called GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter! It was also said that any Elektrishun would use the term GFIC....uh naw, down here in KY we call em' GFI's!
<Well, I do agree. The President could pass an executive decree that they are to be called “Elephant Outlets” from now on and it would still be GFCI to me. But it is all a label here, still the same essential safety item.>
If this is Scott, can you pass this along!
<For sure.>
Oh yea Scott, Mike was great, the tank company lost the first drill bit and template he sent them so he mailed them another one no sweat. He has indeed been as helpful as you!
<Hmmmm, lets not let him hear this! ;-P)
I am waiting on the tank to be finished now so I can get that overflow box shipped out! Oh yeah, by the way, GOATS ARE COOL.
<Yep!>
Thanks for all you guys [gals] do and for the wonderful site!
Jeremiah
<Welcome and thank you, have fun with this new system.>

Re: Plumbing and RDP [Bob F, Scott V] 4/14/09
Scott, thanks once again!
<Welcome Jeremiah.>
I was hoping my plan would be as cut and dry as it sounded, assuming the valve wont reduce flow noticeably!
<Not that much with it completely open.>
I also agree with the elephant outlet comment, they are a necessity.
<They are indeed.>
I'm figuring out all my wiring on them within the stand now while I am waiting on the tank! A couple follow up questions if I may... If I don't decide to grow any Chaeto, etc in the sump [which I guess wouldn't be that difficult] and stick with the fuge for macro, how long could I let the light cycle overlap [fuge lit longest] before things start to go haywire?
<Quite a while. Chaeto is supposed to get a resting period, but I have seen it illuminated 24/7 successfully too.>
For that matter I thought of 8am thru 10pm or 9am thru 11pm on the display. Didn't know if 14 hour cycles would hurt.
<I would go for 12 here. With 14 you may notice your corals looking tired and droopy towards the end of the day.>
Then for the fuge maybe 6pm to 9 or 10am. I have no clue to what is "the norm" or even "do"able?!
<There is quite some variance, leeway here. But for the display I personally would stick with 12.>
What are your thoughts on this? Worse case scenario I plan for a vegetable filter in the sump.
<Not a bad idea, maybe an algal turf scrubber. See: http://wetwebmedia.com/algaeFilt.htm>
Hey off subject, not sure if you recall our previous exchanges but I had talked about going with the Tunze nanos for powerheads and you "approved." My question is, do you feel there is a different brand/model that would be more efficient/applicable for price, heat, and performance? Any good swivel heads?
<Personally I like the AlgaeFree MaxiJet mod.s too, but the Tunzes are always top notch.>
I'll be sure to send some pics by of the 3 sided Starphire beast once things settle!
<Oh yes!>
I couldn't begin to explain how anxious I am!!!! It goes without saying but, thanks man, for real! Until next time!
Jeremiah
<Welcome, talk soon, Scott V.>

Re: Plumbing and RDP 4/15/09
Thanks man! I'll play a little bit with the fuge lights to find a sweet spot but the display will be on 12s!
<Welcome, sounds good.>
I'm the only one that's supposed to come home tired and droopy ; ]. I must apologize, I forgot to ask one question in conjunction with CL plan, and one totally off topic and my OCD wont let me not ask them haha!
<Okay.>
With knowing what will be on the outside of the tank with the "CL" hole {dark tunnel that ends abruptly :]} what would you do about the inside, a bulkhead strainer of some sort, plug, wide open, etc?
<Generally just a bulkhead strainer.>
Maybe something I could get at GH's before Mike sends my box?
<I will CC him, if it has not he'll toss one in.>
Ok, for my fuge I plan on drilling myself, bulkhead size 1.5". What would be an optimal way for pod transport? The drain [or both] is going to be fed directly to the return section in the sump and I want as many as those guys to go on the display tank vacation as possible. Got to love road trips right hehe. Should I just leave the bulkhead open?
<Yes, just leave it open to drain right in.>
Maybe some sort of pvc elbow, how bout a remote controlled vacuum robot that follows my every command? Whoa sorry! Again maybe something on your site? How would you do it Scott V?
<No fancy plumbing parts needed. Just have the refugium drain into you return section in the sump.>
Thanks, Sorry! All in one! You guys still rock! ~Insert cheap flattering chat here~ HAHA
<LOL. Welcome and thank you again!>
Jeremiah

Reef/ sump plumbing and Stocking question 12/2/08
Hello all,
<Hello Randy.>
I have a few plumbing and stocking questions.
First the plumbing questions. I am setting up a 72 bow reef with a 30 gallon (36") custom sump below. The sump will contain a twin sump inlet assembly with 1-300 micron bag, 1 -ASM G3 skimmer, 4 over/under baffles and then a 10x12x13 return pump area. I will be drilling the tank and adding www.glass-holes.com's in tank overflow kit. With the sump there should be aprox 90 gallons of water(80 with rock added-guessing??). I will be adding a 3/4"SCWD on the return for varied output flow. And there will be a Hydro Koralia #3 in tank powerhead. Is the Mag return w/SCWD and 1 Koralia going to be enough flow? Should I add a second Koralia #3?
<I would, you will not have too much through the return with the Mag and the SCWD combined. You will have a more balanced flow with the extra powerhead.>
I know there is no such thing as too much flow (within reason).
<The application of the flow is just as important. Random, not laminar.>
With this said, should I go with 2- 1" lines into my sump or 2- 1.5" lines into the sump?
<Definitely the 1.5" lines, you do not want to restrict the overflow drains.>
If I go with the 2 1.5" lines and the 3/4 "Y" setup on the SCWD which MAG pump do you recommend? The MAG7.5 or 9.5??
<The larger will still leave you redundancy in the overflow once head and plumbing are accounted for. I would go for the 9.5.>
I would like to get it matched as close as possible. I have heard that using a partially closed valve on the return side (or any side) can cause potential blockage over time as debris accumulates.
<If you are referring to the overflow, do not restrict at all! As for the pump, you can restrict the output if need be, you will not need to here.>
If I use the 2- 1.5" feeds, should I step up to 1" returns from the MAG to the SCWD(I believe that both devices have 3/4" male NPT fittings), and then 3/4" from the SCWD to the tank.
<Little to nothing to gain over the ¾" for the run it will have.>
I am thinking about drilling the returns and using bulkheads, what is your thoughts on this? Any issues, advise?
<You can IF you have sufficient transit volume in the sump, the amount of water that will drain or siphon into the sump when the return pump is off. Otherwise, just plumbing it over the top to a length of LocLine allows you to place the return just below the water's surface, minimizing this volume.>
Also, is the ASM G3 skimmer to big for only the 80 gallons of water?
<No, a fine size for this system.>
Will it over skim?
<I'm not a believer within reason.>
Should I put it on a time, for how long? I had it on my 120 and loved it for skimmate collection.
<Just let it run and collect nasties.>
Now for the stocking. Can you tell me the best tang for a disease free reef tank? I am leaning toward either a purple or a yellow eye/Kole?? Do you think that these fish will work together?
<I would stick with just the Ctenochaetus strigosus in this size tank.>
I know I'm at max. Currently have-1 yellow watchman, 1 Ocelers. clown, 2 yellow tail damsels---Would like to add, a ick resistant tang, 1 midas blenny (will he work with the watchman?),
<Chances are good they will clash.>
2 neon gobies, 1 royal gramma, 1 flasher or fairy wrasse, 1 six line wrasse,
<Be aware these can be bullies and put any shrimp in your tank at risk.>
and possibly a pair of Banggai cardinal fish.
Do you have a preferred flasher or fairy wrasse that is recommended for price, availability, and beauty?
<Cirrhilabrus rubriventralis in my book. Do be sure to cover the tank for any of these wrasses, they are jumpers.>
Thanks for your time and devotion to our hobby,
Randy
<Welcome and thank you, Scott V.>

Tank plumbing/ water flow 10/22/08
Good evening all at WetWebMedia, I'm writing to ask a few questions before I under take a large tank re-plumbing job on my 75g. mixed reef tank.
<Okay, good evening to you too.>
I have been experiencing a fairly bad case of BGA and need to fix some flaws in my setup to hopefully eliminate it or at least keep it under control. I'm looking for some advice to avoid mistakes I have found that come quite easily and frequently in the aquarium school of hard knocks.
First some background of my system, obviously I have a 75g. tank with a 20g. sump and an Iwaki MD55RLT return pump that is piped to a manifold loop at the top of the tank with 6 nozzles. I'm guessing flow is about 800gph with head loss @ 4 feet, draining through 2 1-1/2 drains drilled at the top of the tank.
<Realistic estimation.>
The drains consist of 90* fittings plumbed through bulkheads with tee's on the outside of the tank. These are plumbed down to the sump where I have a PM Bullet1 skimmer running off a Mag 9.5 in-sump pump. The water then exits the skimmer and returns to the tank. This setup is noisy to say the least and I find the TV getting turned up louder and louder because of it.
<Not fun!>
This besides the BGA, is the main reason for doing what I'm about to propose. Also the amount of water flowing between the tank and sump means a huge amount of evaporation not to mention high humidity in the house, which is not good here in the northern climates in the winter. I probably have to top off 1-1/2 to 2 gallons a day.
<This really will not change much with the changes you are making.>
Now for the advice, my plan is to eliminate 1 of the drains and plumb it directly to the Iwaki pump as a dedicated recirculation loop back up to the manifold for maximum flow in the tank and avoiding 800 gph through the sump. I want to replace the return pump with a Mag 5 piped external to the sump. This should return about 250 - 300gph to the tank and I assume should be quieter while having tons of flow with the recirc. loop. Is this enough turnover through the sump for the skimmer, or will I need more through the sump and skimmer.
<It will be fine.>
I may replace the skimmer because I haven't been satisfied with its performance poss. with an Aqua C EV120 but I have heard they can be noisy. do you have any experience with these ?
<Hmm, yes. They do of course aspirate air, there is some noise. I find the pump used to drive the skimmer being the larger noise factor than the skimmer itself.>
I know they are great skimmers but back to the noise issue. This will probably be done at a later time anyways.
<Do also look at the EuroReef line, a bit quieter IMO.>
The tank is full of residents and they will all have to be removed for this and I will be rearranging the live rock in the tank at the same time. They consist of 1 each;
Coral Beauty
Royal Gramma
Tomato Clown
Exquisite Wrasse
a small Naso that will be finding a new home when he gets much bigger
a couple of Convict Blennies
a Toadstool Leather
a Frogspawn
a couple of Colt Corals
and a small Xenia
These will be removed and segregated in buckets and plastic tubs while this is re-piped and rearranged. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. does my re-piping plan look sound?
<Yes, though you will lose the redundancy of two throughputs for your overflow. You could keep both drains and just drill a new hole for the closed loop.>
Will 250 gph through the sump be enough turn over?
<Yes.>
Is 2000gph through the recirc. loop overkill?
<Not if tweaked, properly implemented. A ball valve on the output of the pump will allow you to throttle back a bit if needed.>
How long should the PVC cement cure before I refill the tank and put the livestock back in?
<Technically 24 hrs.>
Also as a side note I am also looking into some sort of refugium like a hang on for the tank for macro algae production against my BGA problem, Is there any certain size you would recommend for a 75g. tank?
<No, just the bigger the better.>
Thank you so much in advance, you fine folks at WWM have helped me keep many fine things alive a lot linger than they would have without you. I really appreciate all you do for me, everyone else, and the hobby in general, thank you!
John P.
<Thank you John. I do wonder, what in particular is so noisy in your setup? What you propose should be quieter, but what you currently have may just need a bit of tweaking to quiet down. How is your overflow setup, do the drain lines go into the water in the sump, are they aspirated? Is it a flushing noise you are hearing? Write back with some details about what/where the noise is, we may be able to save you quite a bit of work. Scott V.>

Re: Tank plumbing/ water flow 10/23/08
Hello Scott, here are some answerers to your questions. The noise may or may not be able to be reduced. I do accept that there is going to be a certain amount of noise with an aquarium no matter what it consists of.
<Of course.>
The drains consist of 90* fittings piped as overflows through the back of the tank about 2" from the top. These are piped through bulkheads into tee's on the vertical with a bushing and small piece (4") of 1" PVC and a vented cap. The noise I'm talking about is just the gurgling noise and the sound of the water falling the 2'-3' down to the sump. One of the pipes goes right out the back of the tank straight down to a 90* fitting into a bulkhead into the sump. Inside the sump I have vertical tee's to allow some entrained air escape to help prevent micro bubbles. The other drain is the same except that this side drops down about 16" and 90's over towards the sump and down another foot or so into the sump. I have done a decent job with splashing in the sump with a micron bag to deaden the sound. The problem noise is just the water draining, traveling and falling in the pipes. I have tried to insulate the pipes with commercial thick insulation like you would have on your air conditioning piping. It didn't help much and looked terrible.
<Been there, done that! A losing battle.>
I am not experiencing the sucking/ siphoning that many have from trying to put too much water down the drain.
<The rundown of my previous questions.>
As far as loosing the redundancy I'm not too concerned about that because I would be going from 800gph down two 1-1/2" drains to 300gph down a single 1-1/2" drain. My logic is that 1 gurgling overflow would be quieter than 2 slightly faster flowing overflows.
<It can be, usually not in reality. You should not have any gurgling. Are the elbows inside the tank pointed up? If so lowering the flow will make little difference, the opening needs to be submerged; the opening on the elbow facing down.>
As far as allowing the cement to cure for 24 hours that will be difficult for I have a young child that loves disorder in the house and a wife doesn’t, at all. Is there a reasonable time period for it to set up before the VOC's will harm livestock. If it's got to be 24 hrs then that's what it has to be but it won't be fun. if you are married then you know what I'm talking about. ha ha.
<I am, to a very understanding woman!! 24 hrs is playing it safe. Many, including myself do put the plumbing into service much faster, sometimes a matter of minutes. The educated choice is yours.>
Aqua C skimmer- noise from aspiration will not be a problem-I run tubing outside for the skimmer air for the PM. no asp. noise none! Would you recommend an EV_120 or 180 for the load I have listed plus the couple shrimp, snails , hermits I forgot?
<I almost always favor a larger skimmer, room and funds permitting.>
Any hang on refuges you would recommend?
<None in particular, all are basically just a hang on box. If a pump is included this may guide your choice. Some of the lower end pumps can be noisy.>
Also the Iwaki pump has union ball valves on either side and the outlet is closed off slightly slowing flow and making the pump slightly noisier. Will this cause excess heat to be transferred to the water?
<No, this will not effect the heat transfer in any significant way. It is fine to throttle the pump back on the output side, never on the suction side.>
My summer time temps approach 84* when I keep the house temp at 76*. winter temps are around 79* in winter with the house at 72*. The only heat sources are the Mag 9.5 in the sump, the Iwaki return pump and a 260W PC light fixture. I haven't used a heater since day one and would like to bring down the summer temps without having to evaporate more water or invest in a chiller. The tank has been set up like this for about a year and a half.
<These wet rotor pumps do account for quite a bit of heat. You could possibly run the skimmer pump externally to eliminate a bit of this. The wattage used by a pump will in the end become heat, consider this while looking as skimmers. Also a thought, if you are not adverse to the look of powerheads this may be your answer. Running the smaller pump as your pump return and powerheads in lieu of the closed loop. This eliminates the big, power hungry pump and the heat that comes with. It will pay for itself in a short time, you will see an impact on your power bill. One more note re the drain noise in the pipes. Running the overflow drains at a slight angle, not completely vertical, can lower the noise radiating from the pipe itself quite a bit. Also, using flexible PVC (sold as SpaFlex at many hardware stores) will virtually eliminate the noise radiating from the pipe itself.>
I look forward to you answers / more questions if needed, thank you once again,
John P
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Flow Question…Pump vs. Plumbing Configuration – 10/19/08
Hey guys,
<<Howdy Blake>>
With the aid of your site and Reef Central, I have successfully plumbed my first reef.
<<Neat!>>
Thanks again.
<<On behalf of the crew… Quite welcome>>
I have a quick question regarding flow for my tank.
<Okay>>
Here are the details: It's a 150 gal. (48x30x24) with a 50 gal. tall sump. For the sump loop, I have 2 1.5in drains and a 1.5in return. I am using the Herbie method for the drain (controlling a siphon w/ a gate valve and the second 1.5 is for safety. It is tested and accommodates easily if the first were to fail.)
<<I’m not a fan of utilizing valves on gravity drain lines as I think there are better and safer ways of managing the flow, and the second “safety” drain line will only help in the event of a clog as long as you keep the maximum flow rate to no more than what a 1.5” gravity drain can safely handle without a siphon event…which is about 700gph. And ideally, this second “safety drain” is installed slightly higher than the main drain to allow you to adjust the sump return flow rate to the main drain line only>>
This is all run using a ReeFlo Snapper that is fed using 1.5 pipe increased to the 2in. intake.
<<It is generally best not to reduce the intake line to a diameter below that of the intake nozzle of the pump to preclude flow loss…but in this case it’s not an issue because this pump’s maximum volume rating (2500gph) is way too much for a single 1.5” drain (keeping in mind that the second drain you installed is for safety/backup purposes should the first become restricted or plugged completely). A gate-valve on the output side of this pump will allow you to dial-it-back as necessary to achieve an optimum flow rate for your plumbing configuration>>
On the output, I have aprox. 2 90 deg. turns and a T at the top reduced down to 3/4 Loc-Line on either side.
<<Hmm, okay…so in terms of headloss, this will add about 5-feet of head-height to the existing “rise” of the return line (figure 1-foot of head-loss for each bend/tee and one for each Loc-Line fitting). So assuming about 3-feet of rise this gives 8-feet of head-height/head-loss/head-pressure to the pump. Considering the specs for this pump (high flow w/low wattage and low maximum head-height) I figure flow has already been reduced more than half by the plumbing configuration alone>>
1st question. When I ran the system without the Loc-Line it produced a much stronger flow;
<<Aside from reducing/restricting the output diameter of the pump by half, the convoluted interior of the Loc-Line causes turbulence which further restricts flow. Nothing unexpected here in my opinion>>
it has been reduced to the point that I am almost concerned. I would say I have around 800-1200gph coming from it.
<<Mmm…I’m thinking probably lees than this…especially if the flow is well handled by a “single” 1.5” drain>>
It concerned me because when I added sand the pump had slight clicking sound that eventually went away.
<<Probably ingested some sand particles…not to worry>>
Could I have damaged the pump?
<<If a large piece of substrate were to “wedge” in the volute there is a possibility of damage to the impeller (breakage or “grinding away” of the impeller blades)…but fine grains of sand (unless in VERY large volume) should not be a problem for the pump>>
Is this amount of flow sufficient for the sump?
<<I don’t know what your actual flow rate is…but as little as 300gph would still be fine in my opinion…and much easier to manage re noise/safety issues. So yes, whatever the flow rate the pump is producing now is likely fine, as long as it is not overwhelming the drain>>
At its current state, the overflow is pretty silent and I have no micro bubbles,
<<Well there ya go>>
but I thought I would have a bit more flexibility in "horsepower."
<<Then I suggest you remove the valve from the one drain and utilize both within capacity (about 1400-1500 gph combined)…and get a bigger pump>>
However, if the overall flow is sufficient w/ the CL for the projected animals (SPS) then no stress. For the closed-loop, I have a Dart with an OM 4-way.
<<Ah, okay…a bigger/more powerful pump…and the 4-way is a nice little piece of gear too>>
It is fed using 2 1.5” intakes and 4 1” outputs in each corner of the tank. They are alternating from each corner of the tank. The flow from the CL is incredible.
<<Excellent>>
Considering the flow schematic, should this be, hypothetically speaking, sufficient to keep SPS?
<<Much more to it than this as you should be aware…but yes, this flow should be sufficient>>
The lighting question is for another day. ;)
<<Alrighty>>
Thanks for all the input.
Blake
<<A pleasure to share. EricR>>

Plumbing and Pump 9/22/08
Hi guys.
<Vince>
I have read so much that my head is swimming with ideas.
I want to re-plumb my system from scratch to make it appropriate for hard/soft corals and everything in between. My DT is a 220 gallon (72" x 24" x 30") All-Glass aquarium which is to say that the two glassed in boxes with the holes underneath accommodate 1.5" ID and 1" ID piping. In other words, my absolute maximum drain capability will be two 1.5" and two 1" drains. I have read that 1.5" does 600 gph and the 1" does 300 gph, but I can't figure out if these numbers are for one or two drains. (Does a single 1.5" drain do 600 gph or 1200 gph?)
<A single 1.5” is good for about 750 safely, while 300 is correct for the 1”.>
The 1" ones are currently plumbed for return lines, but I am willing to use them as drains and just have my returns hanging over the back, which actually increases my return line and wavemaking options (Can we say "8 way Ocean Motion"?). My sump is a standard glass aquarium that already has a hole drilled with a 1" ID bulkhead from which the main pump can draw water. I do NOT want to drill a new hole to accommodate a larger pipe. I intend to keep approximately 30 gallons (half full) in the sump.
So, for my intended bio-load, I understand I ought to have 10 to 20 times my DT gallonage turnover, which is to say 2,200 to 4,400 GPH flowing from DT to sump back to DT.
<You will want 10-20 times turnover for total flow, it does not all need to transit the sump. >
<Perfect.>
I also will have two Koralia 4 water fans just to create circulation in the DT.
(The 2nd one has yet to arrive, so I have not had an opportunity to experiment.) I have read one suggestion that if I put one at mid-height in a back corner and the other one mid-height at the center of the back wall and aim them both at the dead center of the tank, that the turbulence created by these positions will simulate gentle wave action.
<You’ll just need to experiment with different placement of the powerheads in relation to your sump return.>
So, here are my questions:
1. What GPH do I need going into and out of the DT?
<I would shoot for around 1000 gph or so on this tank. This will be a manageable level through the sump and puts you around 3000 gph of flow in the display with the powerheads.>
2. Are the two 1.5" drains sufficient to accommodate that GPH?
<Yes, although using the 1” drains also just provides that much more redundancy.>
3. Will the positioning of the two Koralia's actually create a turbulence to simulate wave action?
<With a little experimentation in placement it definitely can. I would actually start with the two on opposite ends of the tank, pointing at each other. Mix in your sump return flow and then start tweaking it here and there until you are happy with the flow. A bit of positioning info in this article http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm>
T.I.A.
Vince.
<Welcome, have fun setting up, Scott V.>

Revised Tank Plan 8/31/08
Hello again WWM crew,
<Blake>
As usual, you guys are an indispensable help in this hobby and I thank you for that.
<Thank you for the high praise.>
I have revised my tank plan and wanted to run the idea past a professional. The LFS's in this area aren't quite "pro's." I am ordering a 150 Lg. 60x24x24 from Glasscages w/ Starphire, rimless. The plan is a centered overflow with 2x 1.5 in drain (I will be implementing the Herbie Method; pros/cons), and a 1.5 in return. It will flow into a sump (40 gal)/refugium, and have an external return pump (Dolphin 3800/4800 model).
<Do use at least two 2” drains for the 3800, another if you use the 4800. The 1.5” bulkheads will just not handle these pumps. More throughputs will be needed to have any redundancy/safety factor… and you should. Do also consider that this is quite a lot of flow to manage through a 40 gal.>
Here is the main question, the closed loop. I have planned 2x 1.5 in. drains to be drilled about 8in from the top of the tank on either side of the overflow box. These will flow to a Sequence Dart with a 2in. intake, and return out of a 1.5in outtake. From there I will plumb it to an Oceans Motion 4way. I planned on having 4x (total) 1in. returns for closed loop in each corner of the tank bottom. There are some interesting configurations I could use with the OM 4way and haven't decided on one yet.
<A product that offers many configurations to you.>
The tank will be rimless and the "wave" action could be scary.
<This too is a matter of leaving some safety, with the water level down a bit more than actually needed.>
I thought a 1 and 2, 2 and 3, etc. would be great for keeping solids suspended. The Dart is rated at approx. 3600 GPH.
<It sounds like a good configuration for 1” lines.>
I plan on keeping Acropora, Montipora, and some clams. Combined with the overflow does seem like enough flow for the chosen animals.
<Surely.>
I have chosen the Orbit USA 60in. 2x 250MH with 4x T5 50 watt. Is the increased length from 48in to 60 in. purely cosmetic, or is there a different in light positioning?
<With each MH covering 3ft you will likely have some dark spots/shadows. With proper positioning/aquascaping this can work well and even look very appealing. It just depends on the overall aesthetics you are going for.>
I couldn't find a description anywhere (sorry, that is a random question). If there are any major flaws here please educate. Hope your Labor day is treating you well.
<It is, thank you.>
Thanks as always,
Blake
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Re: Plumbing Questions For New Marine Tank Setup - 4/04/08
Thanks Eric.
<<Most welcome, John>>
I will certainly pick my fishes for reef compatibility.
<<Great!>>
My reference to street 90s was the same point you made (about using turnable ells in the tank in place of strainers).
<<Ah, okay…excellent>>
However, snails, crabs or small fish can still crawl or jump into an ell even if it is just below the surface unless it is screened somehow.
<<Mmm…in my experience (I use these on my tank), the only real problem are the larger snails (e.g. – Astrea spp.)…and then only because they can cause a blockage (I no longer utilize these snails in my system…for this and other reasons)>>
Short of using strainers on my ells do you have any suggestions for keeping critters out of my drains?
<<I never tried it myself, but Anthony once recommended using a bit of the plastic “gutter guard” such as that found at Home Depot/Lowe’s. You cut a small piece, roll it up, and insert it in to the ell (the material will “spring open” to hold itself in place). It will take a little experimentation to figure out just how “dense” to make the roll for the best effect, but according to Anthony, the material inhibits water flow very little if any, but will keep your critters from making the trip down the drain. Only real problem I see with this is that you will need to make checking/cleaning of the ell a regular maintenance task>>
As a follow up question, I had not intended to "throttle" the OR6500 with a gate valve, but simply to union and ball-valve the pump to allow for disconnecting. Rather, I drilled two 1.5 overflows in the DT to ensure I could run the OR6500 full-out.
<<I see…and I understand this will not likely be necessary with this pump. But if you should ever change pumps or go with a bigger pump…………>>
However, I am now concerned about the OR6500 outpacing the flow through the baffles.
<<Ah yes…and a valid concern I think. I remember once having to actually drill a 1 ¾” hole in the baffle on a pump chamber in order to keep up with the flow of a large pump>>
I have already siliconed them in place but if I run into rate problems I will rip them out and weather strip them! Someone should create a baffle flow spacing calculator!
<<Hmm, yes…though I find many of these so-called “calculators” to be faulty/misleading at best. Better to use real-life findings/test results in my opinion. Using the pressure-lock baffles one could probably do these tests quite easily…though the possibilities/variations in configuration (width of vessel, depth of vessel, height of baffle, number of baffles, etc., etc.) could/would make it quite the project. Although even just a “few” assays might provide some useful benchmarks for folks to start from>>
Thanks, all the best.
John
<<Cheers Mate, EricR>>

R2: Plumbing Questions For New Marine Tank Setup - 4/04/08
Thanks again, and slainte!
<<Always welcome. Slainte Mhor! EricR>>

Plumbing With “Shared” Pipe – 04/03/08
Hi Bob, how are you today?
<<EricR here today… Bob is off diving in Borneo…between sessions of sharing cans of Tiger Beer [grin]>>
I have been looking and reading but cannot find a real answer to my question.
<<Oh?>>
My question is in regards to plumbing.
<<Okay>>
My tank has dual overflows each with a 1.5 inch bulkhead. One overflow is directed to a sump housing a skimmer. The other overflow is directed to a separate sump with a refugium. Each sump holds approximately 30 gallons.
<<Are these vessels connected? Ideally, the refugium would gravity-drain in to the pump-chamber of the sump>>
I am planning on using two Pan World 100PX external pumps for my returns.
<<Okay…at just under 800gph these should be fine after headloss. And I do very much like the idea of having/employing a redundant pump, should one fail>>
The pumps have a 0.75-inch inlet and a 0.75-inch outlet. I want to connect the sumps using 1-inch bulkheads and 1-inch PVC pipe.
<<Mmm, you need to match the size of the drain bulkheads at the least…so 1.5” or larger bulkheads are needed here>>
Would it be ok to use the 1” pipe connecting the sumps as the return line and tee off each pump from it?
<<Oh, I understand now what you are doing…and no…I do not recommend having the two pumps share a single 1” supply line>>
What I would like to do is use separate tees for each pump and then use a reducer just before the pumps intake. Would it be better to use reducing tees to tee off each pump from the 1-inch “connecting” pipe to the 0.75”?
<<See my comments below>>
I am thinking running one pump for each with a 1-inch bulkhead would be fine. This would be pretty much like separate sumps, I think. Seems each pump would still mainly pull from the closer sump. So they would each have their own water supply, basically. Am I seeing things right here? Or do I need 1.5 inch bulkheads in the sumps to do this?
<<Given the problems with trying to “balance” overflow lines for two isolated and separately plumbed vessels on the same display, I understand your wish/reasoning for connecting the two vessels. What you propose might work…if you use at least 1.5” bulkheads and pipe (2” would be better) and position the tees (yes, reducing tees will be fine) for each pump at opposing ends nearest each vessel. Although, I think you will still experience issues with controlling/setting the working water-heights due to the “shared” nature of the plumbing. Adding a second connecting pipe of 1.5” or larger may help with this somewhat…but I truly think your best option would be to position the refugium to gravity-drain to the pump-chamber of the sump, and then plumb “both” pumps from this location, providing each with its own 1” feed line>>
As always, thanks for your time.
Gary
<<Happy to assist, Gary. Please do feel free to write back for clarification or to discuss this further...I can’t say I have a “warm and fuzzy” for what you are proposing here. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Plumbing/PVC Size 12/20/07
Hello,
<Hi Frank. I could help you much more if your tank and sump size were known along with the pump(s) and their gpm that you plan on using. James (Salty Dog)>
Quick question since you all are always a big help. I have two 1" bulkheads and two 3/4" bulkheads. I know your suppose to size up the pvc piping in the tank to 1 1/4 inch for the 1" bulkhead and 1 inch for the 3/4" bulkhead. Is that the same concept for the piping from the bulkhead to the sump........a bit larger? Thanks
Frank

Re: Plumbing/PVC Size 12/21/07
Sorry about that. My Tank is 125 gallons and my sump is 46 gallons.
<That is some help but still no info on pump size. Here goes. I'd recommend at least 1250gph flow rate in your tank. It doesn't all have to come from the returns, powerheads can furnish part of this. Two 1" bulkheads will not be enough to provide 1250gph to the pump, at most, with no restrictions such as elbows, check valves, etc., you can expect a total flow rate of no more than 500gpm through each 1" bulkhead.
Do not quite understand what you are getting at in sizing up the PVC to 1 1/4 for the 1" bulkhead. If you are thinking about a reducing coupling going from 1 1/4 to 1", that isn't going to help too much. Your water flow is limited to what can pass through the 1" bulkhead. As for the pump, do not reduce either the intake or return. Most pumps have enough pressure to produce their rated flow rate minus head loss per foot of tubing used. This link may help you. http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/popup.calc_pumphead
James (Salty Dog)>

Plumbing Questions 12/12/07
Thank you always for your help.
<You're welcome, and hello Frank.>
You guys <and gals> have helped me out plenty of times on things. Im in the process of setting up a 125 G AGA tank (72"x18"x22") with the 2 Megaflow Overflows ( each with 1-1" bulkheads and 1-3/4" bulkheads.) I have a 46 G oceanic sump with 2 intakes. I also have 3 Quiet One 3000 (780gph). I realize now that these pumps are way too powerful for the bulkheads to accommodate after reading the other FAQ's. I know I can use one for the return and just dial it back with a gate valve. Here is my question....finally.......Would it be better to have the return go to a pvc y after the gate valve and return to the 2 3/4" bulkheads or a direct return to 1 of the 1" bulkheads and use the other 1" bulkhead and 2 3/4" bulkheads for the intake to sump? If I ended up using the 2 1" bulkheads for the intake can I just use one of the Quiet One 3000's and use a pvc y pipe to draw from the 2 bulkheads or should I buy 2 new Quiet One 1200's (296gph) inline for each
bulkhead?
<No, no, no, read below.>
If I removed the teeth spacing on the MegaFlow to draw in more water, could I actually use a Quiet One 3000 on each of the 1" bulkheads?
<Wouldn't be doing anything like that, this design is proven.>
One last question....on the intakes.......is it better to use pvc piping with elbows and such or using flexible tubing?
<Definitely hose direct from the bulkhead fitting to the sump fitting, each elbow will restrict the flow rate. I'd also put gate valves on the drains just below the bulkheads.>
I would greatly appreciate your advise of this.........I've been debating and 2nd guessing myself on this for a couple of weeks and would like this tank setup for operation before Christmas.
<I do not understand why you have three pumps. Each one inch drain should produce close to 600gph flow rate. With the head loss of the pump, this should work just fine. Go with the design, one pump tied to each 3/4" bulkhead, and the drains plumbed to each of the sump's inlets. As long as no elbows are used in the drains, this system should work fine. Do plumb gate valves to each pump in the event they may have to be throttled back slightly, won't be much.>
Thank you guys so much.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank

Re: Plumbing Questions 12/14/07
<Hi Frank>
So to summarize.......making sure I understand correctly.....the 2 1" bulkhead drains connected to a gate valve, then direct flexible hosing to sump inlets.
<Yes.>
Should the pumps be connected inline between the gate valve and the direct hosing, or connected to the end of the piping in the sump?
<??, The pumps should be plumbed so the gate valve is on the outlet, then flexible hose to the return bulkheads.>
On the return end.....should the gate valve come before or after the pump?
<As above, after. Never restrict the intake to a pump, won't last long.>
So I need to connect each Quiet One 3000 on each drain piping and return piping.......4 total?
<You're confusing me. The drain hose should go into the sump, then the pumps will pump the water back to the return bulkheads. Four pumps???>
I really only have one outlet in the sump for the return.......there is actually two, but one bypasses the mechanical filtration. Do I still use each of those outlets for the return to the 3/4" bulkheads.........FYI.....the drain pipes are going to be connected to some Durso type of standpipe.....unless you have a better idea..........will that still be good for the gph flow to the sump, or should I do something else or alter this design? Thank you once again. I hope its the last plumbing question for now.
<Frank, is best to get familiar with plumbing/installation now. Do go here and read/learn, then ask questions. Also read linked files above.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm
One thing I'd like to mention as to bulkhead/pipe sizes. Most manufacturers will rate the flow of their returns at the maximum gph. This is not a real world figure. Example: Most HOB overflows with a one inch bulkhead are rated at 600gph. You might get this flow rate if no hose is attached to the bulkhead, just a straight shot down. Any hose, fitting, etc will create friction and even the length of the drain hose plays a factor in this. In a real world setting, a 600gph overflow connected to a sump with flexible hose, gate valves, etc, may yield 500gph at best.
<<< No, not even..... RMF>>>
 Same goes for pumps, their gph is rated at the head, not after three or four foot of hose is added. Most pump manufacturers will list gph at different head lengths (in feet)> I think I mislead you in the last email in this regard, my apologies. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank

Re: Plumbing Questions 12/16/07
James (Salty Dog),
<Frank>
I think I know where I was confusing you and thus confusing myself. The reason I was stating 4 pumps was cause I thought there had to be pumps plumbed on the intakes to pull the water from the tank to the sump, then pumps for the return. But after reading your responses; thinking about it, then going to the links you gave me..........I'm guessing that there are no pumps associated with the intake and that the sump is fed from gravity/siphon effect and only 2 pumps would be needed for the returns.
<You got it.>
I guess I will keep the other pump as a spare when one fails. Got one last question I hope. When you first initially turn on the return pumps, there should be water in the sump and in the piping right?
<Definitely.>
I was wondering how do you initiate the siphon when your ready to start it all up?
<Just make sure the water level in the sump is at the desired depth and make sure your overflow box is full of water. The drain should start by itself.>
I guess I will keep the other pump as a spare when one fails. Your awesome. Glad I wrote to you guys before I made would-be mistakes. Take care James.
<Always good to read/learn/ask if unsure. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank

Plumbing Nightmare… (Indeed!) – 12/07/07
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<<Hiya Jerry...EricR with you today...>>
Why is it the more I read on your website, the more money it costs me to fix the errors!! Yes I know shoulda, woulda, coulda!!
<<Ah yes! But think of all the learning experiences/opportunities that have come from it>>
I upgraded my tank 4 months ago and was so excited about the upgrade I didn’t really check the stats on the overflow.
<<Uh-oh...I sense a “Mega” mistake coming>>
Right now I have a 90g reef with a MegaFlow unit,
<<Yes, well...try not to giggle when you say that [grin]>>
1” Drain Pipe and ¾” return, which now seems fairly small.
<<Mmm, yes...and as Tom Hanks stated when the “Wonders” fell apart after a single hit song...”A very common tale.” We are well aware of/often hear about these tanks and their shortcomings re the advertised “Mega” throughputs>>
The drain pipe drops into a sump w/ trickle plate/Poly-Filter, bio-balls replaced with DSB/live rock, no lights.
<<Okay>>
Second chamber holds my AquaC Urchin-Pro and a Rio that pumps into a 20g refugium, from there it returns via a 2400 Mag-Drive, reduced to ¾”.
<<Okay...a couple red flags here. First- Pumping from the wet-dry to the refugium and the pumping from the refugium to the tank is just a plain bad idea... Even if you use valves to balance flow/were to use identical pumps, this “balancing act” just doesn’t work due to variable differences in head pressure/line resistance from the buildup of bio-matter. Sooner or later an imbalance “will occur” likely resulting in water on the floor, damaged equipment, even the possibility of fire or electrocution. You really need to position the wet-dry such that a “gravity” overflow of sufficient size will supply water to the refugium for return to the display. Second- That 1” drain is only going to handle about 300gph. Assuming zero headloss for the moment from the Mag-Drive, that pump is twelve-times more pump than you need! And no doubt these issues have something to do with you writing in...[grin]>>
The problem is a few-fold!!
<<Yes>>
You state in your plumbing article that you should never pump one box to the next, and that it is destined for disaster.
<<Indeed>>
Trust me I have spent countless nights wondering when one pump will go out, and because of one bad pump loss two. (and the constant adjustments!!)
<<Yep...Murphy’s Law “will” catch up to you>>
Also you state that Skimmer and refugium should get raw water,
<<Ideally>>
and flow through the refugium should be handfuls.
<<Hmm...this, in “my” opinion, is variable...and often dependent on the type of refugium methodology employed. But for the most part, yes, a circulation of a couple to few volumes of water per hour will usually suit>>
Here is my plan; since I just bought a new AquaMedic Ozonizer (got a great deal or I would have bought the Sanders) and I am waiting for my ORP controller and new EV120. I figure since I have to make changes anyways, I might as well make them all.
<<Excellent>>
Promise I am getting to the question!!
<<No worries...does help me to have all the info/know the background>>
Since drilling is not an option and a hang on back overflow will not fit, here is my new plan.
<<So, limited to the existing throughputs, eh…you can “make do” re circulation to the sump/refugium…but you will definitely need to provide some supplemental water flow within the tank via powerheads>>
I was thinking of taking the return line and making it into a second overflow, since you say it is better to have two than one.
<<Some redundancy is good, indeed…but this is most often done with these so-called Mega-Flow tanks simply because the supplied throughputs are just too inadequate>>
The 1” dropping into the sump (DSB/Live rock will be removed and put into the refugium with the other), the EV-120 in the fist chamber with raw water and the second chamber will hold both pumps.
<<Let me stop you right here for a moment… “Both pumps?!” Even with utilizing both the 1” and ¾” throughputs as drains, you are still only looking at a maximum “gravity” flow rate of about 450-500 gph… You only need a pump that will supply from 700-900 gph; to allow for head-loss and gradual loss of flow from bio-film buildup in the plumbing. Also, do be sure to plumb a gate-valve “after” the pump to allow you to throttle-back this flow if/as needed>>
Mag 2400 will be piped 1” (or ¾” what do you think is better?)
<<I think a smaller pump “is better”…with no need to exceed the diameter of the pipe beyond that of the pump outlet>>
behind the tank, dropping in by split Loc-lines.
<<You will likely find that only a single return will supply enough “force” with the limited water flow to be useful>>
I figure with 4 elbows and 4’ of upward pump, collective maybe 9’ of headspace. Mag 2400 will now return maybe 1250gph.
<<Maybe so…but still way more than your drains can handle>>
The ¾” will drain into the refugium, so now both skimmer and refugium will get raw water.
<<This is good…and hopefully the refugium then “gravity drains” to the pump chamber of the sump>>
Rio 1400 returns to a ¾” SeaSwirl.
<<Save your money here…you just don’t have the overflow/drain capacity for it>>
Whew!! I was thinking that this addresses all the issues that you have written about.
<<But unless I have grossly misunderstood or something has been misstated, your resolutions are flawed>>
But then I was thinking, will the overflow wall allow enough water in or will it suck dry?
<<The “overflow wall” will not be an issue, the drains will simply not handle this much water volume>>
You say gravity is something you can rely on, so since I am pumping more back in, won’t the overflow box fill just as fast?
<<The box will fill, yes, and overflow… And gravity is indeed the issue here. Because you can pump a certain volume of water through a specified diameter of pipe does not mean that same volume will “gravity drain” through the same diameter…is not the same hydrodynamics. You can not drain the volume of water from this tank that you are indicating without increasing the number or size of the throughputs. Since you say this is not possible, your only option is to reduce the volume of water returned to the tank>>
And if the box is overwhelmed with how much I am pulling out, is there a way to speed up the amount flowing in? Maybe cut bigger and deeper grooves on the top?
<<Again…I think the overflow box is the least of your concerns here>>
Well anyways before I start ripping things out and buying new parts I thought I would run this past you.
<<I’m very glad you did>>
Your views and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Since you started this whole thing anyways!! I would have been perfectly fine sitting in ignorance!!
<<Mmm…not for long…>>
Have an awesome night and if I haven’t said it yet, you guys are the absolute best on the web and anywhere else!!
<<Thank you…a collective effort>>
Thanks,
Jerry
<<Jerry… Please write me back to let me know your thoughts/understanding of what I have stated, along with anything you have already done and the results re (have you run this tank lately?). I do think this matter likely bears further discussion. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Re: Plumbing Nightmare? (Indeed!) ? 12/09/07
Hello Eric!!
<<Hey Jerry>>
Thanks for bringing a laugh!!
<<Oh?>>
When I read your first line there was no giggle, it was straight out laughter!!
<<Ah, yes…but not too “hysterical” I hope>>
Soooo I take it you've come across this before!!
<<All too often>>
Yes, this same plumbing has been working for me for exactly a year; Dec is the 12 month marker.
<<Huh! You’ve been running a Mag24 through a 1” gravity overflow?! I do not doubt your veracity, but I suspect “something” is not as it appears/has not been made clear to me here. There is just no way a 1” gravity drain could handle this volume…>>
The only difference is the tank size, I went from a 70g to a 90g, I know, not much of an upgrade...but it did seem to give my tank some room to breathe!!
<<Indeed…an additional 20g in volume on this size system can be a big help>>
So in theory, the project I was going to take on will do exactly opposite.
<<Opposite?...as in what you expected?>>
I was thinking that turning the 3/4" return into a throughput will be too much drainage and you’re saying the overflow will be overwhelmed by my 2 projected returns...
<<Ah okay, yes…adding/using the ¾” throughput for a drain in conjunction with the 1” throughput will “still not be enough” to handle the flow volume from your proposed return pumps. And let me just add… Even had you the overflows/drains to handle this volume, you would NOT be happy with the resulting noise, etc., associated with this much transient volume processed through a small sump. Much better to keep this to the 300-500 gph your current configuration will handle and supplement water flow in the display in some other manner>>
As for flow in the tank, I do have a Tunze 6060 and Rio Plus 1100 at opposite corners.
<<Oh…excellent!>>
The refugium does have Chaetomorpha, a DSB and Live rock; I also know that Chaetomorpha do like higher flow...soooo
<<This macroalgae will also do well with a couple hundred gallons per hour as well, I assure you. My 55g Chaetomorpha and DSB refugium has been fed by a single ¾” overflow for the past four years. But, if you desire more water movement in the refugium than this you don’t have to increase the water input, necessarily…simply add a small powerhead to the refugium itself>>
I was thinking of getting a bigger refugium and ditching the sump, and call it a day.
<<Mmm, the sump is “handy” for housing those filtering elements you do not want in your refugium (e.g. – protein skimmer).>>
But I just measured and because of the center pillar, I won't be able to angle it in there.
<<Gotta love those manufactured stands too, eh?>>
One last idea Eric, I promise…
<<No worries my friend…we want to make sure we do/get this right>>
You say to gravity feed.
<<From the refugium to the sump? Yes>>
What if I just take the sump and turn both chambers into a refugium. Drill 2- 1.5" bulkheads at the end. Raise the sump up so it will flow over the top of the refugium. Put the skimmer, skimmer pump and the return pump in the last chamber of my second refugium? Now I have water volume and twice the fuge!!
<<Hmm, I would rather see the refugium flow in to the last chamber of the sump…and I would not have the skimmer in the refugium (you will lose much of the beneficial biota to the skimmer by doing this). If this were me/mine… I would house the skimmer in the first chamber of the sump (fed by the 1” drain line) which then flows/overflows to the last chamber which houses the return pump. The refugium (fed by the ¾” drain line) would be slightly elevated and drilled/plumbed through the end panel to allow it to gravity drain in to the pump chamber of the sump. This setup isolates the refugium from biota-removing equipment and allows raw surface water to feed in…and positions the skimmer where it too is fed raw surface water, and, the flow of water “away” from the skimmer helps keep beneficial critters from being “drawn” to it>>
Okay enough thinking from me… My brain is going mayday, mayday!! How would you gravity feed into the refugium?
<<As just outlined…do let me know if you have any questions re>>
Do you have a link or a step by step?!! HELP!!
<<Hmm, I don’t have a graphic just offhand (this is where Bob chimes in about me finishing that plumbing piece [grin]), but do have a look through our plumbing and refugium FAQs…there’s likely something similar in there somewhere (you can start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium1.htm )>>
Eric I am at the end...Once again the chain reaction effect has me second guessing everything!!
<<Not such a bad idea…considering>>
Also I want to say Thank You for taking the extra time to help me in this endeavor to correct a wrong…
Jerry
<<My pleasure, Jerry…let me know if I can be of further assistance. Eric Russell>>

R2: Plumbing Nightmare? (Indeed!) ? 12/09/07
Thanks Eric,
<<Happy to share Jerry>>
You are da' man!!
<<Say it again!…Say it again!...>>
Your plumbing idea sounds perfect!!
<<Ah good…>>
It does address EVERYTHING I wanted to accomplish!!
<<Excellent…is a simple but effective design>>
Sometimes there is just no replacement for plain out right EXPERIENCE!!
<<Indeed>>
One last question and I promise I will be in the "yes!! I have another project" bliss!
<<Ask away mate!>>
I know you have something in WWM about drilling.
<<Drilling glass, yes…I know I have answered a few Q’s about it before>>
It will be my first, but what better way to learn than on a 20g fuge. If it "blows" it won't be an expensive lesson.
<<Mmm, agreed…much less scary than drilling glass for the first time on an expensive display tank>>
Where would you drill the 2- 1.5" bulkheads? Just below were you want the water line or lower?
<<For maximum strength/safety sake “I” generally recommend the outside of the hole (not the bulkhead, but the actual hole size needed to “fit” the bulkhead) be at least the distance of its diameter from any edge (top, side, etc.). But for this application, I think you can put them where you want the water line to be…as long as you keep at least 1.5” of glass between the edge of the hole and the top and side edges of the tank>>
Is there a formula for this?
<<Nothing “official”…that I am aware>>
Or am I again, over thinking?
<<Nope, these are valid considerations. Other may/will tell you differently…it’s up to you to decide how to proceed>>
Thanks Eric, after this I promise, no more emails. Well at least till this project is over!! [grin]
<<No worries my friend…It is my earnest desire for you to succeed>>
P.S- My LFS sold me the Mag-24, out of box for a discount. Starting to sound like "maybe" it's not a “24.”
<<Hmm…indeed… As already stated…there is no way your 1” overflow could handle a Mag24 (2400gph) pump>>
Regardless this thing is huge!! Is there a way to check, so my flow math is not all askew?
<<If you can…direct the flow in to a container of known volume (5g bucket) and time how long it takes to fill>>
You guys are the best,
<<Aw, shucks!>>
Jerry
<<Be chatting. Eric Russell>>

Marine sys. Pb, stkg... ScottV pls have a look, respond   11/30/07
Hello all,
<Larry>
This is the first time I have written but I have poured over the sites information for the past few months and all I can say is wow! The service that you all provide is greatly needed and appreciated!
I will get right down to it.
I have a 90 gallon (4ft long) aquarium. Undrilled.
My plan is to drill 2 2" holes. One hole close to the back left corner.
<Mmm, but not too close to the corner...>
The other, two thirds of the length from the previous 2" hole. I will drill a 1.5" hole one third the length of the tank from the first drain hole on the left for a return. I will have a sump made that will approximately measure 36"Lx12"Wx12"h. In the first chamber I will have a Tunze 9010 protein skimmer. In the second chamber I will have a refugium filled with live rock and Caulerpa. In the third and final chamber I will have 2 heaters. Externally plumbed will be two return pumps. The one pump will be a sequence reef flow snapper pump ( 1850 g/hr at 4' of head) that will feed the drilled return hole measuring 1.5" in diameter. The second pump will be a sequence reef flow dart pump (rated for 2820 g/hr at 4' of head) to feed a return line that will be plumbed over the back right edge of the tank and connect to a wavy sea wave maker at the right corner of the tank. Would this be enough water circulation for the tank?
<Mmm, should be, yes>
I will also have 90 to 110lbs of live rock.
My tank inhabitant will be an undulated triggerfish and maybe a school of aggressive damsels. I am aware that an undulate trigger needs a species only tank. I was hoping that I could locate a Red Sea male specimen
<Are gorgeous, more peaceful>
at a size of about 2-3" and have him grow up with a school of damsels. I am also aware the undulates get more aggressive and territorial with age so the damsels may not work. Is their any possible tankmate that may work with the undulate at all?
<Perhaps some other Red Sea choices...>
Would you know where I could find a male Red Sea undulate trigger in Western Canada?
<Mmm, have your LFS look for you... are rare in the West period (compared with Europe), but might be able to be ordered, your request put into a system...>
I was just wondering if you could comment on my setup and offer your expertise on areas I may need to improve?
Thank you so much for your time and knowledge!
Larry
<Mmm, well, I do wish you had a working drawing/graphic of some sort... I don't exactly follow the third, two-third placement of your through-puts rationale... We have a Crewmember/friend here, ScottV who has interest in a company that does this sort of work. I'm going to ask him to chime in here. Otherwise, I'd like to have you (re) read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
The fourth/pink tray... re Marine Plumbing... Bob Fenner>

Marine sys. Pb, stkg... ScottV pls have a look, respond 11/30/07
Hello all,
<Larry>
This is the first time I have written but I have poured over the sites information for the past few months and all I can say is wow! The service that you all provide is greatly needed and appreciated!
I will get right down to it.
I have a 90 gallon (4ft long) aquarium. Undrilled.
My plan is to drill 2 2" holes. One hole close to the back left corner.
<Mmm, but not too close to the corner...>
The other, two thirds of the length from the previous 2" hole. I will drill a 1.5" hole one third the length of the tank from the first drain hole on the left for a return. I will have a sump made that will approximately measure 36"Lx12"Wx12"h. In the first chamber I will have a Tunze 9010 protein skimmer. In the second chamber I will have a refugium filled with live rock and Caulerpa. In the third and final chamber I will have 2 heaters. Externally plumbed will be two return pumps. The one pump will be a sequence reef flow snapper pump ( 1850 g/hr at 4' of head) that will feed the drilled return hole measuring 1.5" in diameter. The second pump will be a sequence reef flow dart pump (rated for 2820 g/hr at 4' of head) to feed a return line that will be plumbed over the back right edge of the tank and connect to a wavy sea wave maker at the right corner of the tank. Would this be enough water circulation for the tank?
<Mmm, should be, yes>
I will also have 90 to 110lbs of live rock.
My tank inhabitant will be an undulated triggerfish and maybe a school of aggressive damsels. I am aware that an undulate trigger needs a species only tank. I was hoping that I could locate a Red Sea male specimen
<Are gorgeous, more peaceful>
at a size of about 2-3" and have him grow up with a school of damsels. I am also aware the undulates get more aggressive and territorial with age so the damsels may not work. Is their any possible tankmate that may work with the undulate at all?
<Perhaps some other Red Sea choices...>
Would you know where I could find a male Red Sea undulate trigger in Western Canada?
<Mmm, have your LFS look for you... are rare in the West period (compared with Europe), but might be able to be ordered, your request put into a system...>
I was just wondering if you could comment on my setup and offer your expertise on areas I may need to improve?
Thank you so much for your time and knowledge!
Larry
<Mmm, well, I do wish you had a working drawing/graphic of some sort... I don't exactly follow the third, two-third placement of your through-puts rationale... We have a Crewmember/friend here, ScottV who has interest in a company that does this sort of work. I'm going to ask him to chime in here. Otherwise, I'd like to have you (re) read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
The fourth/pink tray... re Marine Plumbing... Bob Fenner>
<<I would keep the Snapper as the return pump and employ the Dart on a closed loop, both pumps will be too much flow through sump/refugium this size. This will also give you a safety margin with the overflows, both pumps through two 2” bulkheads will definitely be pushing the upper limit. The other thing to watch out for is the return through the 1.5”. You will need to be 1.5-2” from any edge to drill safely, this includes the top. This will put the line in a position to drain a substantial amount of water into your sump in a power outage. As Bob mentioned I have an interest in a company specializing in just this sort of thing. I would recommend checking out our site at http://www.momsfishsupply.com/overflowinstallation.html
for placement and drilling tips. Good luck, Scott V.>><Outstanding. RMF>

Pump question Bob... reading    11/11/07
Hello Bob,
Your site is AWESOME. I'm new to the hobby and am setting up a reef tank (72 gallon Bow) and am curious what size pump to go with... the Mag drive 700 or Mag drive 900. I have a 1 inch return
<Stop~!>
on a tide pool wet/dry (tentatively). Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards John
<You've got a bit of reading to do John... Start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
the third tray down... "Overflows..." what you have currently won't supply either pump model. Enjoy the read. BobF>

New 120 Gallon Setup For A “Pre-Drilled” Newbie – 10/08/07
I'm a long time listener, first time caller.....
<<Welcome>>
I recently acquired a 120-gallon tank with stand and am in the process of plumbing and painting, etc.
<<Neat!>>
This is what I have done so far and I would like some input to see if what I have done is going to fly or crash.
<<Always happy to proffer an opinion...>>
The tank has the typical 1-inch and .75-inch through fittings in the bottom.
<<Mmm, yes...two of each?>>
I have built Durso type standpipes with 1.25-inch PVC in which the bottom of the intake is approx. 4 inches below the overflow (water surface). I ran a calculation on that level and if I have a power outage, the sump will not overflow.
<<Excellent>>
The returns will remain .75-inches and will be piped to both sides and back of the tank resulting in approx. (6) .5-inch outlets with a directional jet opening on each.
<<I see>>
Opposing flow patterns is what I am going for here.
<<Understood... and will require a return pump capable of providing at least 2400gph (1200gph if the two initial returns are pumped separately) AFTER head loss in order to provide enough useful force/flow/volume to each ½” outlet. This is MUCH MORE than the two 1” drains can handle (figure about 600gph combined). Best to configure a “closed-loop” if you wish to use a return manifold with multiple outlets>>
Under the tank, both 1.25 drains lines will remain independent and both drain into the sumps bio box lid.
<<Mmm, if the throughputs are 1” like you stated earlier, then this is your maximum drain/flow capacity>>
My filter and sump are approx. 45-gallons. My return pump is a Little Giant
4-mdx? something rated at 1000 gallons at 6 feet of head pressure. I ran a flow rate computation on all fittings, pipe, etc. and came up with a corrected flow of approx. 750-gallons per hour.
<<The computations are great for planning purposes, but I’m sure you realize you can only get a real value for the flow rate by firing up the pump and timing the fill of a vessel of known volume (e.g. – 5-gal bucket)>>
On the output side of the pump I would like to make a manifold with ball-valves
<<Gate-valves provide much better control/finesse>>
that will divert a part of this return water to a small refugium
<<You can do this (though flow adjustment becomes a constant struggle due to changing flow rates from bio-film buildup, etc.), but it is best to bleed water from a return line to feed unprocessed raw tank water to the refugium which then gravity drains to the sump’s pump chamber to maximize transfer of refugium biota to the tank>>
as well as a UV sterilizer.
<<But for commercial applications, I feel these units are superfluous, with little value versus maintenance/upkeep. Better to invest in/apply ozone via the skimmer...in my opinion>>
And return this water to the display tank through a 1-inch line, "T" it off under the tank and reduce the line to the standard .75-inch fitting that fits the through fitting in the bottom of the tank.
<<Huh!? As in via another pump in the refugium!? Bad idea...>>
The manifold on the pump exit side could also have an auxiliary exit to pump water back to the sump directly if I end up with too forceful a flow at the tank level.
<<I would simply install a gate-valve on the output side of the pump to temper flow if necessary>>
Does this set-up seem to be realistic in terms of performing?
<<Nope...as already stated>>
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. This is the first pre-drilled tank I have owned so this is new to me, but I have learned everything I know from watching this forum and web site...it has been an eye opener for sure.
Thanks, Chip
<<Chip... Do mull over my responses and get back to me with your questions...as well as more detail re your refugium setup as I think this is a problem (at least as I understand it now). Regards, Eric Russell>>