Giant Cup Mushroom Losing Flesh 2/27/08
Hi Crew,
<Hi Mohamed>
I am asking this question for a friend.
She has a giant cup for 4 years with on <going> problems. The water quality is within range, no high levels of nitrate, nitrite, etc. but she unsure of
iodine levels and water changes are done regularly.
<Wouldn't worry too much about iodine levels, regular water changes with a good reef salt should provide all that is necessary. I've supplemented with iodine (Lugo's solution) in the past and have not seen any benefit in it's use.>
The giant cup does not open up completely and if you wave your hand next to the GC its flesh is peeling.
Could a low level of iodine cause this or what could cause this, a disease?
<The Giant Cup Mushroom is a meat eater and I'm wondering if it has been fed small pieces of shrimp etc. A healthy specimen should close/wrap completely around the food. As far as lighting, they do require medium intensity light to survive. You did not mention lighting being used.>
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Mohamed

Corallimorpharians and Allelopathy – 01/08/07
Crew,
<<Hello Scott>>
I have a 120 gallon, several year-old mostly fish and live rock system which I was beginning to populate with some hardy species of soft corals.
<<Okay>>
This included 2 pink mushroom corals that were doing well for about 6 months and split to a number of about 12 total.
<<Corallimorpharians can be quite prolific, often to the point of being problematic…overgrowing/killing more desirous organisms>>
I added a couple of other propagated green mushrooms on the other side of the tank from a friend's system that were doing well and splitting. I also have about a 2" size toadstool and some "devil’s finger" leathers that are also about 2-3". A few weeks back my mushrooms started to sag and shrivel, the pink ones especially. Now the green ones are following suit, and the devil’s fingers don't look so hot. I checked the water parameters with zero ammonia and nitrite and 20ppm of nitrate which is par for the tank.
<<Ah! A clue then… This Nitrate reading is too high. 20ppm may well be at the upper limit for acceptable in a FO/FOWLR system, but once you start trying to go “reef” you should bring this down to 5ppm or less through increased filtration (biological/chemical), or a reduced fish load. Installing/switching to a more efficient skimmer can also help>>
To summarize, everything has been status quo or better in terms of water quality/tank conditions, but with these Shrooms shriveling up I can tell things just are off.
<<Indeed>>
I started to think it was just a failed experiment into the world of corals until I noticed my purple pseudo missing today (read: dead) and my Eibli angel breathing a zillion X/min and on death's door.
<<Likely a result of chemicals released by the stressed/dying soft corals…and compounded by the high Nitrate level>>
At least one of my larger fish does not look great either. Water parameters still checked out. I haven't targeted the cause of the coral decline, but given the lack of changing conditions and their previous health and proliferation, I suspect some kind of allelopathy.
<<Maybe...but I’m more apt to blame the Nitrates at this stage for the Corallimorph’s and soft coral’s decline>>
QUESTION: Could the fish be affected by some type of soft coral chemical warfare to this degree?
<<Indeed yes…dying and decaying organisms such as these can/will give off a large amount of noxious chemicals. I hope you have applied some extra chemical filtration to help deal with this?>>
Some of the tank inhabitants appear to be unaffected, including cleaner inverts (snails and hermits), shrimps, and a Galaxea coral which I acquired a year ago and appears well
<<Differing degrees of tolerance>>
(I realize this is actually a pretty delicate stony coral).
<<I’ve never considered Galaxea coral as particularly delicate…though do be aware it is a very aggressive coral and will do extensive damage to any neighbors within reach of its quite long sweeper tentacles. Hmmm…you didn’t happen to place any of the new additions within reach of this coral did you?...say about 10” or less?>>
I figured some of these other organisms would be the canary for water quality issues. In the meantime, on a friend's advice I have started to run large amounts of carbon today in an effort to pull out any toxins that may be in the water.
<<Ah, very good…and I would suggest use of some type of chemical filtrant (carbon/Poly-Filter) become a “permanent” aspect of your filtering methodology>>
Should I remove the remaining mushrooms?
<<If they are declining/dying, yes…else, is up to you as the carbon should help much with the removal of Allelopathic chemicals>>
Incidentally, the pink Shrooms were very close, and several actually growing on the stalk, of the toadstool-they seemed to almost have an "affinity" for it.
<<These noxious organisms can sense one another/will be fighting for space even when separated…allowing them to “touch” heightens the conflict and speeds the demise of one or both. I would take steps to physically separate these>>
Any advice into this dilemma is greatly appreciated.
-Scott
<<Happy to assist. EricR>>

Re: Corallimorpharians and Allelopathy – 01/08/07
Thanks for the reply...
<<Quite welcome>>
Just one more thing, though.
<<Okay>>
I neglected to mention that the only other thing that has changed in my tank recently is I put about 50 new self-harvested Caribbean snails (USVI) which are alive and well in the tank.
<< You don’t say what species…hopefully you identified beforehand that these would be safe/compatible with your existing and future intended livestock>>
These were placed about mid December and not quarantined.
<<I see>>
Could they be the culprit or vector for some malicious parasite...i.e. gill flukes?
<<Sure… Parasites, bacterial/viral infections, most anything>>
There is nothing visible on the fish that I can identify whatsoever except for the respiratory distress and then quick demise.
<<This is likely environmental…a water quality issue. Have you performed any water changes? I very much suggest you do>>
Perhaps the invert/mushroom issue is only temporally related and not directly related?
<<Yes…likely not the sole cause of your problems here, but working in combination with other factors (high Nitrate, etc.)>>
The fish have tolerated 20-35ppm of nitrate for quite some time.
<<Indeed…and likely weakened by the long term exposure to same. The chemical explosion from the deteriorating Corallimorphs may just be the straw that broke the camel’s back…>>
Scott
<<Regards, EricR>>

Mushroom Life Span – 09/29/07
Cheers Crew.
<Hello again Andy, Mich with you tonight.>
This may be a stupid question, but I can't find an answer. I assume that mushrooms, like all living things, must die?
<Yes. Generally all cells exhibit apoptosis, or programmed cell death. The exception to this rule is cancer cells, which is why cancer is so difficult to fight.>
Is there a known life span for these and/or,
<Presumably, though I have never hear an actual number.>
like other living things, do they sometime just die early of natural (genetic abnormalities, etc.) causes?
<Undoubtedly.>
The reason I ask is that I have a beautiful mushroom rock with 8-10 hairy green mushrooms--had it for about 5 months. Over the last three or so days, one of the smaller shrooms tightened up, lost its neon green color and appears to be slowly melting.
<Sounds like some sort of trauma response to me.>
The rest of the shrooms look great, are open, colorful, etc., as are my other shrooms, tree corals and BTA. My water is good--SPG is 1.025, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate all 0, temp 79*F, pH is 8.2, phosphate is 0.05-.1 (this is new. Has previously always been 0.
<You'll want to get that down.>
I use RO/DI water, my TDS meter shows 0 ppm, I have 80lbs live rock, aggressive protein skimming, 30g fuge with 4" DSB and Chaeto, and I feed quality foods (Formula One and frozen Mysis and blood worms that I thaw and drain before feeding). I think the reading may have been influenced by BGA that I had disturbed/cleaned from my substrate about 1 hr before testing phosphates).
<Could be.>
Not sure if any of you experts might know about the life span of shrooms . . . .
<A small mushroom would generally indicate a younger mushroom, so I highly doubt this is a lifespan issue to begin with.>
Thanks!
<Welcome! Mich>
Andy

Need Help, Mushrooms looking limp and not opening all the way, Cnidarian Allelopathy mostly    8/24/07
Hey all. My tank has been up and running for 4 months. The first coral I added was mushrooms (4 green mushrooms on one rock). They have been doing great the whole time and have even sprouted two new mushrooms on the rock. The mushrooms started looking really limp and only opening to about half their normal size a couple weeks ago. Color of the mushrooms look good. Mushrooms are at the bottom of the tank, under a little ledge, and have not been moved since I put them there a couple months ago. No other corals near the mushroom. All parameters look good. Calcium is low, 340, but has been at that level all along (only softies and LPS in my tank right now). I plan on switching salts when I run out, changing from Tropic Marin to Reef Crystals to see if I can bring up the Calcium without getting into dosing.
My Parameters have been very consistent for the past couple months. They are:
SG: 1.025
Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates are all 0.
Phosphates .1
Calcium 330-340
PH ranging between 8.1 and 8.2 with lights off / on.
Alk 2.9
Temp 82 to 83.6 (heats up to 83.6 when the MH comes on)
I first noticed the problem when my central AC died a couple weeks ago. Tank heated up to 86.
<Yikes...>
Brought the temp down with ice bottles in the sump, and got the AC running within 48 hours.
<I'd leave the lights off on such hot days... turn on more toward night>
Another thing that changed, is I added a second powerhead. I have the mushrooms between two rock structures, and they don't appear to be getting blasted with current. I have a 53g tank with about 25x flow now (was about 12x). Have a MJ1200 and added a Tunze6025. Also have a Eheim 1260 for a return pump.
<Corallimorphs often are found in quite stagnant settings>
There's only one other softie that's not doing well all of a sudden, and that's a yellow colony polyp.
<... Here could be a major portion of the problem...>
When I bought it from another reefer, it was brownish and "fringe" for lack of a better word, on each polyp were long, and the dots in the middle of each polyp, were bright yellow. They have since changed to completely bright yellow, and the fringe is really short. I suspect these changes are because I have stronger lighting than the reefer I bought them from had. This coral seems a bit limp to me too.
I have a Aussie Duncan which is doing awesome.
<Duncanopsammia? As in a Dendrophylliid I take it>
Bought one head, and it has sprouted 3 new heads. Have a zoo that is doing great and spreading.
<...>
Leather looks great. Hammer looks great. Any ideas on the mushroom?
<It's losing to more dominant Cnidarians... the Sarcophyton, likely the Zoanthid...>
Could it be the temperature spike from when my AC died and it just takes a more than a couple weeks for the mushroom to recover?
<Could be a contributing factor>
Nothing except for the mushrooms seemed to be affected when the AC died. Should I be feeding this mushroom? I've tried putting a little frozen Cyclops or enriched brine near it, but have never seen it take any food. I haven't been adding any phyto or anything, but tried adding a capful of Kent Phyto last night and left the return pump off for about 45 minutes. Don't know if that will help.
Thanks!
Pam
<Too much too soon... I would move the Mushrooms to another system, spiff up your skimming, start the expensive ongoing use of carbon... And read on WWM re Cnidarian Allelopathy... use the search tool here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
Bob Fenner>

Re: Need Help, Mushrooms looking limp and not opening all the way   8/24/07
Ahh...the great Bob Fenner.
<...? Wait, (goes to mirror... same ole non-hair combed petfish kind of guy... ego-deflated, returns to the computer...>
Thank you so much for the response.
<Welcome>
I had never heard the term "Cnidarian Allelopathy", so at least now I have something to read up on.
<Neat term eh?>
I will take your advise on the carbon.
<Good... advice>
I don't have another system to move any of these corals to. The mushrooms are one of my favorites. Should I remove the Yellow Colonial Polyps, zoos, or the Sarcophyton if I want to keep the mushrooms, or do you think Carbon would handle what I guess you're saying is chemical warfare? (or is that something completely different?)
<Is of a sort and more encompassing... takes in "stingers", agglutinants... sweeper "tentacles" and more...>
I thought of one other possibility. I have never tested for, or dosed Iodine. Could lack of Iodine be a cause?
<Again... perhaps a co-factor>
I checked my LFS but they didn't have a test kit, and I don't want to dose without testing, but I will order a Iodine test kit online just in case.
<Ah, good. Likely once-weekly administration per dosage... would not overshoot...>
One last question, do you think I'd be better without the two
powerheads, and just go with one powerhead and the return pump like I had before I started having this problem with the Mushrooms?
<Maybe... but what re the rest of the life in the system? If there's room, I'd just move the Mushrooms to a less-circulated area...>
I only had the MJ1200 and the Eheim return pump for flow, and added a Tunze6025, but I thought I could pull out the MJ1200 and just go with the Tunze now if that would be better. (53G tank which is 31.5" x 19.5" x 19.5")
Corals I have so far if it makes a difference on flow:
Sun Coral (just added two days ago and doing well)
Waiving Hand Xenia (also just added two days ago and doing well)
<... I'd be slowing down on these non-ordered/directed additions here...>
Aussie Duncan (doing great)
Tan Sarcophyton with Green Polyps (doing great)
one orange centered zoo (doing fine)
Bright Green Mushrooms (Doing poorly)
Thinking of adding a Hawaiian Feather Duster.
Thanks so much Bob.
Pam
<Please do read re the Compatibility of each of these Pam... here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/inverts/index.htm
A very good idea for all to understand the "order", propensity for one group of animals... mainly Cnidarians in this case... to out-sting, out-grow, overshadow, displace one another... and to formulate, adhere to a plan of placing the less "winning" groups... of appropriate size... first... spacing time and dimensionally subsequent additions... using techniques, gear to limit the warfare that is/are these environments, including their living complements. BobF>

Re: Need Help, Mushrooms looking limp and not opening all the way  8/27/08
Hi Bob. I took your advise and added activated carbon this weekend. I also moved the Leather to a corner of the tank (it was only a couple inches from the mushrooms).
<Yikes!>
I'm not sure if it was the carbon, or moving the leather, or a combination of both, but within two days, my mushrooms have totally perked up!!! Not completely back to their full glory, but close!! I'll have to read more on the compatibility of corals. Thanks for your help!
Pam
<Thank you for this update Pam... and do keep reading. BobF>

Mushroom Meltdown 7/6/07
I have had a 120 for 10 years, and during that time, had a mushroom rock (Green/blue striped) that has literally become a massive colony. I'm talking on and under every rock (200+ lbs of rock). Even many with no color since they got no light (very cool), not to mention many over 6 inches across. The tank has been very stable and the mushrooms open up beautifully. (I have pretty low flow in that tank). Below are two links that show the tank. (they don't do the mushrooms justice as they were taken just after the lights came on before the mushrooms were open, but you get the point)
I say again that this tank has been stable for 10 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD_3i2ALjDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvtAvnBbwWg
So, I went away for a week, had someone watch my tank for me (Who I trust).
Fed the tank (Frozen- 1 cube Mysis and 1 cube Mix A - Also, very small amt of arctic pods) 2x over the course of the week (I was feeding the day I got home). -
In the tank:
Yellow Tang
Purple Tang
Unicorn Tank
Flame Angel
Brittle Star
4 Ricordea
a million of the aforementioned mushrooms
1 yellow leather
3 frags of pumping leather
yellow polyps
red Blastomussa
So, I walk in and 75% of the mushrooms are gone. That's right. Vanished.
(Melted is more like).
PH was 7.89 (Low). Temp was fine. Water was a little cloudy. Fish and all other corals were fine.
Temp was fine (77 as always)
I did a 35 gallon water change the next day. The Mushrooms were 90% gone and water was getting cloudier.
Next day - shrooms were 100% gone, water was cloudier and all else, again, fine. Skimmer going crazy of course. I did another 35 gallon water change since I'm sure my levels must be spiking like crazy.
Today - all shrooms gone. I did a 45 gallon water change.
Nitrates are 20 Bad but not terrible. Ammonia is through the roof. I took the leather (Which was finally looking stressed, as well as the Ricordea and a Blastomussa, and pumping leather and am putting them into my 180 (40 G sump and 75 gallon fuge) for safe keeping.
<Good>
I am thinking that the 120 has a serious cycle to go through for the near future.
<Perhaps...>
Questions:
1)What could have happened to dissolve every single mushroom and not the
other corals??? (Did she pour a ton of arctic pods in ((Says she didn't))
<Mmm, some sort of "cascade event"... One thing leading quickly and deadly to another... Some sort of pathogen perhaps... or other trigger causing one Corallimorph to poison the system for its genetic likes>
2)Should I get all fish out (into the 180) as well and throw some damsels in there for the cycle?? (Buy some liquid quick cycle (I forget the name)
<Mmmm, perhaps... if they appear stressed... too much... And BioSpira is likely the product you refer to and want to use>
It's just amazing to me that after 10 years, they could all vanish literally overnight! Could this have been a spawning event of some kind?
<Mmmm, not likely, no... This same sort of triggered response can come from "something" lacking in the environment, allelopathy with other Cnidarians... the Clavulariid, or Sarcophyton most likely from what you list...>
Thank you very much!
Mitch
<These "things" do happen... even in well-kept, long-term-stable settings... Periodically upsetting the homeostasis (dynamic equilibrium... jumbo shrimp? Military intelligence?) is suggested... Bob Fenner>

Mushroom Meltdown - one addition 7/6/07
I have to add: I just realized that I forgot to mention something that could be important. My protein skimmer had not been working for a few months (with no detrimental effects) and I did take it apart and clean and fix it about 3 weeks ago. I wonder if this could have started the shift in water chemistry. (IE cleaning the water of excess nutrients that the mushrooms were thriving on, leading to the great mushroom crash.)
<Yes... this definitely is a factor>
Again, it was overnight and only the mushrooms, so I would still love to hear your thoughts.
Thanks again,
Mitch
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Mushroom Meltdown  7/7/07
Thanks for the response Bob! ok- so a follow up. I am now seeing a white fungus on several rocks and on the bottom of the tank. Could this be related to the cause of the mushroom loss, or a growth after the fact based on the levels in the tank going so crazy in the past week? Also, of course- what should I do about it?
Thanks again,
Mitch
<Is very likely related to the meltdown... are decomposition products... Need to monitor water quality, utilize activated carbon in your filter flow path, keep your skimmer cleaned (esp. the contact chamber), and carefully watch your other livestock. BobF>

Mushroom Coral Problem. No data on sys., tankmates, maint., foods/feeding, water quality testing...  5/29/07
Hi Guys, I have recently noticed my Mushroom coral starting to go black all over. A week ago it was fine and I have never had a problem with it.
Please could you tell me what you think it might be?
Cheers
Phil
<... What? Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/corallim.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>